Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Dive Into His Life Online (9/4/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Dive Into His Life Online (9/4/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:02
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Whenever
0:06
Speaker 1: you have a case that draws as much interest as
0:10
Speaker 1: the murders in Moscow has drawn, you're going to get
0:14
Speaker 1: a bunch of people speculating on what happened. That's how
0:18
Speaker 1: this works. However, the speculation in this case has been
0:23
Speaker 1: in overdrive since day one. People getting all kinds of crazy.
0:29
Speaker 1: talking about people by their government name, accusing people of
0:33
Speaker 1: all kinds of heinous, wild shit with literally nothing to
0:36
Speaker 1: back it up. You have people using spirit boxes and
0:40
Speaker 1: tarot cards. Never mind all of the psychics running around
0:44
Speaker 1: telling you that they know who killed these girls and
0:47
Speaker 1: then saying that it's somebody like a professor. So there
0:52
Speaker 1: certainly has been a bunch of yahoos who have come
0:55
Speaker 1: out of the woodwork here. And anytime you have a
0:58
Speaker 1: big tent at the circus, that means there's going to
1:01
Speaker 1: be more clowns. And there is no doubt that the
1:04
Speaker 1: clown car has certainly shown up to this investigation. Today,
1:09
Speaker 1: we have an article from The Independent and the headline,
1:13
Speaker 1: Online Sleuths Hijack the Idaho Murders Case.
1:16
Speaker 2: Should we blame them?
1:18
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Rachel Sharpe. They were killed
1:23
Speaker 1: in a drug deal gone wrong. It was revenge for
1:26
Speaker 1: bullying another student found dead months earlier. A disgruntled student
1:30
Speaker 1: blamed them for him being kicked out of a fraternity.
1:34
Speaker 1: A gang of frat boys decided to carry on a
1:36
Speaker 1: fight that broke out at a party earlier that night.
1:40
Speaker 2: The list goes on and on.
1:43
Speaker 1: These make up only a handful of the countless rumors
1:46
Speaker 1: and conspiracy theories circulating online in the weeks after four
1:50
Speaker 1: University of Idaho students were found butchered to death in
1:54
Speaker 1: the small college town of Moscow. And the whole drug
1:58
Speaker 1: deal gone wrong stuff, I mean, there were people out
2:01
Speaker 1: here talking about it was a cartel hit, it was this, that,
2:05
Speaker 1: the other thing, and it made.
2:07
Speaker 2: My eyes roll back into my head.
2:10
Speaker 1: This is not how the cartel operates. The cartel isn't
2:14
Speaker 1: going into Moscow and they're not sending an assassin to
2:17
Speaker 1: Moscow with a knife to murder four college students. I
2:21
Speaker 1: found that theory to be straight bananas that anyone would
2:24
Speaker 1: even believe that for one second was just insane to me.
2:29
Speaker 1: A disgruntled student blame them for him being kicked out
2:32
Speaker 1: of a fraternity. That didn't sound right either. In fact,
2:36
Speaker 1: I thought it would have to be somebody who was
2:38
Speaker 1: close to them, meaning an ex lover, something like that.
2:41
Speaker 1: But when all of that was proved to be not true,
2:45
Speaker 1: obviously it had to be somebody outside of their orbit.
2:49
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, that's what it turned out to be. Somebody
2:53
Speaker 1: who knew them, but it doesn't look like they knew him.
2:58
Speaker 1: but the emerging details appear even worse than the imaginations
3:01
Speaker 1: of online sleuths. A highly intelligent, seemingly high-functioning suspect with
3:07
Speaker 1: an interest in the criminal mind allegedly entered the home
3:11
Speaker 1: in the dead of night, dressed in all black and
3:13
Speaker 1: a mask, and stabbed the four victims multiple times each.
3:18
Speaker 1: The suspect, Brian Koberger, had no known connections to Kaylee Gonsalves,
3:22
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin prior to that
3:26
Speaker 1: fateful night, And no motive has been revealed. The victims
3:31
Speaker 1: might not have even known he existed. And that's where
3:34
Speaker 1: I'm at. That's what I believe. I don't think that
3:36
Speaker 1: any of these kids had any idea that Creepy Coburger
3:40
Speaker 1: even existed. This dude's out here watching them. And I
3:44
Speaker 1: can't kick the thought of Francis Dollarhide watching the houses
3:48
Speaker 1: in the book, The Red Dragon. Dude was out there lurking,
3:53
Speaker 1: setting up a pattern of what the people were doing
3:55
Speaker 1: when they came, when they left.
3:58
Speaker 2: And then, at the.
3:58
Speaker 1: Perfect time, he'd go into the house and murder everybody. Now, obviously,
4:03
Speaker 1: little different here. But it's the same kind of scenario
4:06
Speaker 1: when you think about this dude sitting on the house,
4:08
Speaker 1: casing it, watching it, and stalking these kids. And yet,
4:14
Speaker 1: the affidavit suggests he stalked their home in the lead-up
4:17
Speaker 1: to the attack after spending years studying criminal justice and
4:21
Speaker 1: how criminals feel while committing their crimes. Then, that night,
4:26
Speaker 1: he allegedly executed... his.
4:27
Speaker 2: Own crime in a matter of minutes.
4:30
Speaker 1: Perhaps most chilling, one of two surviving roommates who were
4:33
Speaker 1: unharmed in the attack came face to face with the
4:36
Speaker 1: masked man thought to be the killer as he left
4:39
Speaker 1: the home. It's something straight out of a horror movie, 100%.
4:44
Speaker 1: Imagine being this poor kid, Dylan, and all the attacks
4:48
Speaker 1: and all the vitriol that's getting thrown her way. I mean,
4:52
Speaker 1: it's quite the leap for people out there. To start saying,
4:55
Speaker 1: oh yeah, she was involved. She helped him out. I mean,
4:58
Speaker 1: that's just crazy. Don't you think the investigators would know that?
5:02
Speaker 1: Don't you think they would have built that into their case?
5:07
Speaker 1: So it's ridiculous to me to see people going after
5:10
Speaker 1: the victim here and acting like she had something to
5:13
Speaker 1: do with this. You want to be mad at somebody,
5:16
Speaker 1: be mad at the suspect. Except this is no movie.
5:22
Speaker 1: It's real life for the families and friends of the
5:24
Speaker 1: murdered victims, for the two roommates who had seemingly a
5:27
Speaker 1: close call with the violent killer, and for the students
5:30
Speaker 1: and locals of Moscow now left to try and rebuild
5:33
Speaker 1: their lives. While America has long been fascinated with true crime,
5:38
Speaker 1: the shocking brutality and seeming randomness of the Moscow murders
5:43
Speaker 1: sent the internet sleuth community into overdrive. Conspiracy theories and
5:48
Speaker 1: rumors have dominated the investigation with thousands of people joining
5:53
Speaker 1: social media groups to discuss their take on what transpired
5:57
Speaker 1: and why. Now, you see, I don't really have an
5:59
Speaker 1: issue with that. People are going to talk about what
6:02
Speaker 1: they want to talk about in these forums. And if
6:04
Speaker 1: they want to discuss what their theories are, hey, that's great.
6:08
Speaker 1: But when you start talking about people by their government
6:11
Speaker 1: name and start saying they're murderers or they're involved in killings,
6:15
Speaker 1: That's where it becomes way, way too much.
6:19
Speaker 2: And that's where people should face penalties.
6:21
Speaker 1: If you're out here defaming somebody and you're calling them
6:24
Speaker 1: a murderer, you should probably face some penalties for that, no?
6:30
Speaker 1: One particular group on Reddit has now amassed 123,000 members,
6:35
Speaker 1: ranking it in the top 1% of all groups on
6:37
Speaker 1: the platform in terms of size. Meanwhile, a Facebook group
6:41
Speaker 1: with users raising theories about the case... has topped 220,000 members.
6:48
Speaker 1: But are the online sleuths a help or a hindrance?
6:52
Speaker 1: There's no doubt that the intentions are well-meaning and that
6:56
Speaker 1: many of the individuals spending countless hours investigating the case
7:00
Speaker 1: from the comfort of their computers had a genuine desire
7:03
Speaker 1: to catch the killer.
7:05
Speaker 2: And I agree with that.
7:06
Speaker 1: I would say that the vast majority of people following
7:09
Speaker 1: this case, well, they just want some resolution. And they
7:12
Speaker 1: want the person responsible to be held responsible. Then there's
7:16
Speaker 1: some people out there that get way too caught up
7:19
Speaker 1: in stuff like this. It takes over their lives. It
7:22
Speaker 1: dominates their lives. And they start, you know, falling into
7:25
Speaker 1: that rabbit hole. And what the big danger is, at
7:29
Speaker 1: least in my opinion, with anything like this, is chasing
7:32
Speaker 1: your own confirmation bias. And when you start doing that,
7:36
Speaker 1: you're in real jeopardy of losing the plot. Many who
7:41
Speaker 1: took to Reddit or Facebook to share tips about the
7:43
Speaker 1: case told how they had already called in the information
7:47
Speaker 1: to the dedicated police tip line. But there's also no
7:51
Speaker 1: doubt that throughout the seven week investigation before Mr. Koberger's arrest,
7:56
Speaker 1: Moscow police were forced to spend a considerable amount of
7:59
Speaker 1: time swatting away rumors.
8:02
Speaker 2: No, they weren't.
8:03
Speaker 1: They were not forced to do that. They did it
8:06
Speaker 1: on their own. They could have just said this is
8:08
Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation. We have no comment. But when you
8:12
Speaker 1: start getting into the nitty gritty of it, you set
8:15
Speaker 1: yourself up for people to dissect every single word you say.
8:20
Speaker 1: So that doesn't really help the investigation, right? And I
8:24
Speaker 1: think it was a good idea for them to move
8:26
Speaker 1: away from those press conferences and just start doing the
8:29
Speaker 1: press releases.
8:31
Speaker 2: There's a lot less room.
8:34
Speaker 1: For misinterpretation when you have a press release that's, you know,
8:38
Speaker 1: on paper rather than somebody up there giving a speech
8:41
Speaker 1: where reporters can trip him up or get him to
8:45
Speaker 1: say something that otherwise he might not have said.
8:49
Speaker 2: And the rumors weren't victimless.
8:51
Speaker 1: Several innocent people, many of whom were grieving for their friends,
8:55
Speaker 1: were attacked by baseless accusations that they were responsible for
8:58
Speaker 1: the brutal crimes. Hoodie Guy, who was spotted with Gonsalves
9:02
Speaker 1: and Mogan, at a food truck hours before their deaths,
9:06
Speaker 1: and Gonsalves' former boyfriend both came in the firing line,
9:09
Speaker 1: while some of the victims' families were targeted with death threats.
9:13
Speaker 1: The boyfriend of one of the surviving roommates responded to
9:17
Speaker 1: the social media critics' add-on, slamming a sickening rumor that
9:21
Speaker 1: the couple, and even his own father, were involved in
9:25
Speaker 1: the murders. I mean, can you imagine sitting around and
9:28
Speaker 1: coming up with this shit? If you want to come
9:31
Speaker 1: up with fan fiction, write a book. You don't need
9:35
Speaker 1: to inject yourself into a situation like this with real
9:39
Speaker 1: lives and real people suffering and try to make it
9:43
Speaker 1: about you and come up with all kinds of weird-ass
9:46
Speaker 1: fan fiction that is not even close to reality. Moscow
9:51
Speaker 1: police ended up compiling a list of individuals who had
9:55
Speaker 1: been shrouded in suspicion and who they had ruled out
9:58
Speaker 1: as potential suspects a list that the department was forced
10:02
Speaker 1: to keep adding to day by day. And that's a
10:05
Speaker 1: good thing. Keep adding to it. No need to give
10:08
Speaker 1: the interviews. No need for the press conferences. Just keep
10:11
Speaker 1: releasing these press releases. And yet one person who was
10:16
Speaker 1: never on the radar of the army of internet detectives
10:19
Speaker 1: was Brian Koberger. as well as impacting the police investigation,
10:24
Speaker 1: the online sleuths, to some extent, also impacted the media coverage,
10:28
Speaker 1: which was undeniably shaped by some of the more plausible
10:32
Speaker 1: tips that arose first on the likes of Reddit.
10:35
Speaker 2: And that's pretty sad, honestly.
10:37
Speaker 1: To all of the journalists out there who are covering
10:39
Speaker 1: stuff like this, you have to go and develop your
10:42
Speaker 1: own sources.
10:42
Speaker 2: Don't be lazy.
10:43
Speaker 1: Don't go on forums and don't spread rumors that are unverified.
10:49
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that there have been cases in the
10:51
Speaker 1: past where internet sleuths did get answers. When Gabby Petito's
10:55
Speaker 1: remains were found after she vanished on a cross-country trip,
10:59
Speaker 1: her mother praised the online community for their involvement. They
11:03
Speaker 1: are incredible. The sleuths, the internet sleuths, they do a
11:07
Speaker 1: great job. They really do, she said. And I think
11:09
Speaker 1: that was a little bit different of a case. It's
11:12
Speaker 1: like comparing apples and oranges almost. Now, of course, the interest,
11:16
Speaker 1: that was on par with what's going on here almost,
11:19
Speaker 1: but all of the other things surrounding this case, a
11:22
Speaker 1: whole lot different. People pretty much knew right away that bitch-ass, ball-headed, barefooted,
11:30
Speaker 1: melon-munching Brian Laundrie was the one who hurt Gabby Petito.
11:35
Speaker 1: You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put it
11:37
Speaker 1: together that if you go on a trip with your
11:39
Speaker 1: girlfriend and you come home alone, that yes, something probably
11:43
Speaker 1: went down and you're probably responsible. And the sleuths in
11:48
Speaker 1: that case, they helped find her remains using footage, right?
11:53
Speaker 1: From the dash cam and different people who were at
11:55
Speaker 1: the park. So certainly there are points in time where
12:00
Speaker 1: internet sleuthing and people doing investigations on their own certainly
12:05
Speaker 1: have been successful in helping bring people to justice.
12:08
Speaker 2: Look at the Golden State Killer.
12:10
Speaker 1: At the very least, there's no doubt that internet sleuths
12:13
Speaker 1: can amplify a case, reaching someone who may just hold
12:17
Speaker 1: that key piece of information investigators need. Mr. Kohlberger is
12:21
Speaker 1: in custody, having denied the allegations against him as he
12:25
Speaker 1: awaits trial. Meanwhile, the online rumor mill around the Idaho
12:29
Speaker 1: murders hasn't stopped. Since then, sleuths have honed in on
12:34
Speaker 1: an account that regularly posted in social media group discussions
12:38
Speaker 1: about the case before his arrest, with many believing Mr.
12:42
Speaker 1: Kohlberger to be the person behind the account. Others claim
12:46
Speaker 1: to have spotted Mr. Kohlberger in footage attending the victim's vigil.
12:51
Speaker 1: The man in the footage has since been revealed to
12:53
Speaker 1: be a different man. And despite police saying Mr. Kohlberger
12:59
Speaker 1: acted alone, the surviving roommate, who states she saw a
13:03
Speaker 1: man believed to be the killer, a 19-year-old who has
13:06
Speaker 1: gone through a traumatic experience, is now facing relentless accusations
13:10
Speaker 1: of being involved. With interest in the case showing no
13:14
Speaker 1: signs of dying down, it's clear the online sleuths will
13:17
Speaker 1: continue to build their own investigations, for better or for worse. Now,
13:23
Speaker 1: I don't even think you can call people who are
13:26
Speaker 1: going after the surviving roommate an online sleuth, right?
13:29
Speaker 2: How about an online bully? Here's an idea. Leave them alone.
13:35
Speaker 2: Pretty simple, right?
13:38
Speaker 1: If you want to have anger, you want to have rage,
13:40
Speaker 1: you want to have all kinds of vitriol, aim that
13:44
Speaker 1: at the suspect. Aim that at the fact that this
13:47
Speaker 1: punk-ass motherfucker crept into their house and killed them while
13:50
Speaker 1: they were sleeping. Don't blame the 19-year-old girl who went
13:54
Speaker 1: through a traumatic experience, and we don't even have the
13:57
Speaker 1: context of what went down.
14:00
Speaker 2: That is straight-up ludicrous to me.
14:04
Speaker 1: But you're going to have people do what they're going
14:06
Speaker 1: to do.
14:07
Speaker 2: And there's no stopping the Internet. We all know that.
14:10
Speaker 1: Once the Internet gets rolling, it's like an avalanche. So
14:15
Speaker 1: my advice is ignore the nonsense, stick to the meat
14:18
Speaker 1: and the potatoes, and you're going to be fine. You're
14:21
Speaker 1: going to be on the right path. No psychics, no
14:24
Speaker 1: tarot card readers, no spirit boxes. You can miss me
14:29
Speaker 1: with all of that weird-ass snake oil salesman BS.
14:34
Speaker 2: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
14:36
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
14:38
Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
14:48
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
14:55
Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.
14:59
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Recently,
15:04
Speaker 1: we've talked about the different forums that have sprung up
15:08
Speaker 1: in different areas in support of Brian Kohlberger. And one
15:12
Speaker 1: of those groups was called BriNation over on Reddit. Well,
15:17
Speaker 1: that subreddit has now been closed down by the moderators
15:21
Speaker 1: of Reddit. And while I understand why they'd want to
15:25
Speaker 1: shut a forum like that down, I can say that
15:28
Speaker 1: I agree with the decision. I've never been a fan
15:31
Speaker 1: of censorship. And I'll tell you, I'm not a fan
15:34
Speaker 1: of it here either. If people want to support Brian
15:37
Speaker 1: Koberger and they want to create a subreddit to support him,
15:41
Speaker 1: then they should be able to do that. As long
15:43
Speaker 1: as there's not any sort of, you know, violence or
15:45
Speaker 1: anything like that being talked about, I don't see the problem. Now,
15:49
Speaker 1: do I agree with sitting here and talking about Brian
15:53
Speaker 1: Koberger being a great guy or anything like that?
15:55
Speaker 2: Of course not. I think it's ridiculous.
15:58
Speaker 1: And as I've said many times, I believe that when
16:01
Speaker 1: all is said and done, Brian Koberger is going to
16:04
Speaker 1: be convicted for these brutal murders. But that doesn't mean
16:08
Speaker 1: that people shouldn't have a forum to talk about the
16:11
Speaker 1: dude if they think he's innocent. So I can't say
16:14
Speaker 1: that I'm a fan of Reddit getting rid of this
16:17
Speaker 1: subreddit or censorship in general. And even during that whole
16:22
Speaker 1: entire COVID situation where people were getting censored and platformed,
16:28
Speaker 1: I came out pretty strongly talking about how I don't
16:31
Speaker 1: agree with that either.
16:33
Speaker 2: People should have a right to say what.
16:34
Speaker 1: They want to say, as long as they're not, you know,
16:37
Speaker 1: inciting violence or anything like that.
16:40
Speaker 2: People should be able to dissent. People should be able.
16:42
Speaker 1: To have an opinion that goes against the mainstream narrative
16:47
Speaker 1: without worry of being deplatformed. And the crazy part is,
16:51
Speaker 1: all of the people that are standing up and cheering
16:53
Speaker 1: for censorship, there's never any kind of self-reflection, right? When
16:58
Speaker 1: it comes out that the narrative that they've been fed
17:01
Speaker 1: has been garbage, They never sit back, have self-reflection, and
17:04
Speaker 1: say to themselves, holy shit, maybe I was gaslit here.
17:08
Speaker 2: Maybe I was dog-walked.
17:10
Speaker 1: Instead, they just double down on the nonsense and retreat
17:14
Speaker 1: back to the bunker. But when we're talking about censorship,
17:19
Speaker 1: I think it's a bad idea in just about every
17:21
Speaker 1: single case. And talking about Brian Koberger, I think it's
17:25
Speaker 1: a bad idea here as well. So let's dive into
17:29
Speaker 1: this article from Newsweek. And let's see what's going on
17:33
Speaker 1: with the Pro Brian Koberger social media group. Headline, Pro
17:38
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger social media group banned over groupies. Now again,
17:44
Speaker 1: I can't say that I agree with it. Do I
17:46
Speaker 1: think it's a good idea to write Brian Koberger letters
17:50
Speaker 1: or profess your love for him on social media? No,
17:54
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty stupid and you make yourself look
17:56
Speaker 1: like a nimrod. But that's your prerogative. If that's what
18:00
Speaker 1: you want to do, and that's how you want to
18:02
Speaker 1: present yourself, don't let me stop you. The author of
18:06
Speaker 1: this article is Kalita Rockman. A Reddit channel for supporters
18:13
Speaker 1: of Brian Kohlberger, the man charged in the murders of
18:15
Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students, has been banned. Kohlberger, 28,
18:20
Speaker 1: is accused of breaking into a rental home in Moscow
18:24
Speaker 1: in the early hours of November 13th and fatally stabbing
18:28
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Carnodle, and Carnodle's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin.
18:35
Speaker 1: He is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and
18:38
Speaker 1: one count of felony burglary. He has yet to enter
18:42
Speaker 1: a plea, but a lawyer who previously represented him in Pennsylvania,
18:47
Speaker 1: where he was arrested at his parents' home on December 30th,
18:50
Speaker 1: said he was eager to be exonerated. And I love
18:54
Speaker 1: how they always say he expects to be exonerated. Well,
18:57
Speaker 1: what else is he going to say or expect? Nah,
19:00
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to get the death sentence. So
19:02
Speaker 1: let's just forego all this stuff and I'll just tell
19:04
Speaker 1: you that I'm guilty. Zero chance that's going to happen.
19:08
Speaker 1: So of course he's going to say I'm going to
19:09
Speaker 1: be exonerated or at least through his lawyers say I
19:12
Speaker 1: didn't do this. Since then, fans of Koberger, formerly a
19:17
Speaker 1: graduate student in criminology at Washington State University in Pullman,
19:22
Speaker 1: have come to his defense on various social media platforms. Well,
19:26
Speaker 1: at least one woman has been sending him love letters.
19:30
Speaker 1: And of course, every time there's somebody who is accused
19:33
Speaker 1: of murder like this, there's always a fan club that
19:36
Speaker 1: sprouts up in the wake of it. We've seen it
19:39
Speaker 1: with some of the most notorious killers in history, and
19:42
Speaker 1: I have no doubt we'll continue to see it in
19:45
Speaker 1: the future with other killers. Because is there any doubt
19:49
Speaker 1: that we live in a society filled with absolutely batshit
19:53
Speaker 1: insane people? Recently a subreddit called Brynation was banned for
19:58
Speaker 1: repeatedly violating Reddit's moderator code of conduct according to a
20:02
Speaker 1: message on the site. It gave no further details of
20:06
Speaker 1: how the code which says moderators must uphold Reddit's content
20:10
Speaker 1: policy and follow the rules was violated. Reddit has been
20:15
Speaker 1: contacted for comment, which is crazy. And look, I don't
20:18
Speaker 1: want to sound like I'm, you know, defending Brian Koberger
20:21
Speaker 1: because that's certainly not the case. But if you're going
20:24
Speaker 1: to be Reddit and you're going to have something like
20:26
Speaker 1: narco footage as a subreddit where they're showing videos of
20:30
Speaker 1: torture and all kinds of other shit, how is it
20:33
Speaker 1: that a fan site for old numbnuts over here is
20:37
Speaker 1: violating policy? On Facebook, several groups have popped up calling
20:43
Speaker 1: for justice for Kohlberger. Look, I couldn't agree more. Let's
20:47
Speaker 1: have justice for Brian Kohlberger. And that means in the
20:49
Speaker 1: form of a volcano and his ass being Spartan kicked
20:53
Speaker 1: right into it if he's found guilty. One such group
20:57
Speaker 1: called Justice for Brian Kohlberger remains active and has more
21:00
Speaker 1: than 3,500 members. It's about whether or not you can
21:04
Speaker 1: prove your innocence. If you can't prove you're innocent, then
21:08
Speaker 1: you're considered guilty. It's been flipped. Now it's guilty until
21:11
Speaker 1: proven innocent. The group's description reads, quoting Ronald Jones, a
21:16
Speaker 1: man who has been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death
21:19
Speaker 1: for the rape and murder of a woman. Imagine being Mr.
21:22
Speaker 1: Jones' family and having these idiots use this quote in
21:26
Speaker 1: regard to Brian Kohlberger. Considering Mr. Jones was innocent and
21:31
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't look like Brian Kohlberger is going to be,
21:35
Speaker 1: I'd be pretty steamed if I was Mr.
21:37
Speaker 2: Jones or his family.
21:38
Speaker 1: Scott Bond, a criminologist and author of Why We Love
21:42
Speaker 1: Serial Killers, told News Nation's Brian Enten that there is
21:45
Speaker 1: a spectrum when it comes to people fascinated by killers
21:49
Speaker 1: and alleged killers. I just don't understand it, honestly. I
21:53
Speaker 1: am absolutely disgusted. Every time we read one of these
21:57
Speaker 1: articles online or I hear a story about one of
21:59
Speaker 1: these sick bastards and what they were up to, I'm
22:02
Speaker 1: literally disgusted by it. How anyone could want to write
22:06
Speaker 1: people like this And profess their love and all the
22:08
Speaker 1: other jazz is just so foreign and beyond me that
22:12
Speaker 1: I can't even come to grips with it. On one hand,
22:15
Speaker 1: there is healthy curiosity. But then, on the other hand,
22:19
Speaker 1: it can also become an obsession, Bond said. This is
22:22
Speaker 1: not a new phenomenon. In fact, there have been cases
22:25
Speaker 1: such as Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker, back in the 1980s.
22:29
Speaker 1: He actually married one of his groupies, he said. And
22:32
Speaker 1: of course, Charles Manson and Ted Bundy. And others had
22:36
Speaker 1: legions of groupies. And with Richard Ramirez, I'll never understand it.
22:41
Speaker 1: You ever take a look at that dude? Forget it.
22:44
Speaker 1: Dude is as skivats as they come. Has a third
22:48
Speaker 1: world grill. The whole thing. How any woman could be
22:51
Speaker 1: writing to this dude and professing their love to him
22:54
Speaker 1: is just insane.
22:56
Speaker 2: Like, really?
22:57
Speaker 1: You can't find a guy at the local bar, the
22:59
Speaker 1: local watering hole? down at the grocery store, hop on
23:03
Speaker 1: Tinder or Bumble or whatever it is the kids are
23:06
Speaker 1: using these days, you're going to have to write a
23:08
Speaker 1: mass murderer because that's going to work out well for you.
23:12
Speaker 1: And how come it always seems like these people who
23:15
Speaker 1: are sending these letters to these serial killers always have
23:18
Speaker 1: at least one or two cats? There has to be
23:21
Speaker 1: some correlation there, right? The more cats you own, the
23:24
Speaker 1: more likely you are to send a letter to somebody
23:27
Speaker 1: like Richard Ramirez. Bond said he believes some are seeking
23:31
Speaker 1: their own 15 minutes of fame by injecting themselves into
23:34
Speaker 1: the investigation. Others are lacking something in self-esteem or an
23:39
Speaker 1: emotional deficit where they feel that they can fill up
23:42
Speaker 1: this hole somehow inside of them by vicariously associating with
23:47
Speaker 1: these types of individuals. And that really gets to the
23:50
Speaker 1: groupie phenomenon, he added.
23:52
Speaker 2: We should make a.
23:53
Speaker 1: Reality TV show called I Love a Killer or something
23:56
Speaker 1: like that. where it follows these crazies who are writing
23:59
Speaker 1: people and getting in relationships with these serial killers. It's
24:03
Speaker 1: like Love After Lockup, but with an extra parental advisory.
24:08
Speaker 1: Something along the lines of, not only might you get robbed,
24:11
Speaker 1: but if you fall in love with this guy, you
24:13
Speaker 1: might get killed as well. I wouldn't necessarily say that
24:17
Speaker 1: these really extreme groupies are necessarily mentally ill, but I
24:22
Speaker 1: would say that there's something missing there, something that draws
24:25
Speaker 1: them to this. A five-day preliminary hearing in Koberger's case
24:29
Speaker 1: is scheduled to begin on June 26th. It's absolutely fascinating
24:35
Speaker 1: to me that people out here are really in contact
24:38
Speaker 1: with people like Brian Koberger. Like, I understand, as I've
24:42
Speaker 1: said before, you want to get on a forum or
24:44
Speaker 1: the internet and discuss why you think the dude's innocent.
24:48
Speaker 1: That's fair game, right? We don't know yet. Nobody has
24:50
Speaker 1: any inside information about what's going to happen come the trial.
24:55
Speaker 1: So if people want to argue that the guy's innocent,
24:58
Speaker 1: I'm all ears. Maybe I missed something. I want to
25:01
Speaker 1: hear all sides of the argument, all sides of the story, always.
25:05
Speaker 1: And I think that the more information we have, the
25:08
Speaker 1: more context we have, the better off we all are.
25:11
Speaker 1: So if somebody has a compelling argument about Brian Koberger
25:15
Speaker 1: being innocent or whatever, then I'd love to hear it.
25:18
Speaker 1: Because as of now, I haven't seen anything that would
25:21
Speaker 1: lead me to believe that anybody was responsible for this
25:25
Speaker 1: but Brian Koberger. The question is, can the state prove
25:28
Speaker 1: that beyond a reasonable doubt? Alright folks, that's going to
25:33
Speaker 1: do it for this one. All of the information that
25:35
Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
25:39
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. There's
25:45
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk ever since Brian Koberger was
25:48
Speaker 1: arrested that he was following along with the investigation via
25:54
Speaker 1: social media, chat rooms, different groups on Facebook and Reddit,
25:59
Speaker 1: and that he was an active participant in some of
26:02
Speaker 1: these conversations. And there are some documented exchanges between who
26:09
Speaker 1: some people think might be Brian Koberger and other members
26:14
Speaker 1: of these groups. Now, I don't know if I'm sold
26:17
Speaker 1: that these exact people, these accounts that we're about to
26:20
Speaker 1: talk about in this episode were Brian Koberger, but I
26:24
Speaker 1: have no doubt that this dude was following along and
26:28
Speaker 1: actively keeping an eye on what was going on. He
26:32
Speaker 1: just seems like that kind of guy. But as far
26:34
Speaker 1: as actually being one of the people that is talked
26:38
Speaker 1: about in this article, I don't know one way or
26:41
Speaker 1: the other if it was Koberger. But there are a
26:43
Speaker 1: few things that don't match up with the actual timeline
26:47
Speaker 1: that would lead me to believe that perhaps it is
26:50
Speaker 1: not Koberger and just some knucklehead out there who was
26:54
Speaker 1: shooting off some fan fiction. But either way, today's article
26:59
Speaker 1: is from Newsweek and the headline was Brian Koberger hiding
27:03
Speaker 1: in plain sight. Online sleuth theory goes viral. This article
27:08
Speaker 1: was authored by James Bickerton. Speculation is mounting that Brian Koberger,
27:15
Speaker 1: the man suspected of murdering four Idaho students in the
27:18
Speaker 1: early hours of November 13th, may have been behind a
27:21
Speaker 1: pair of accounts that discuss the case in detail on
27:25
Speaker 1: Facebook and Reddit. Now, again, I have no doubt that
27:30
Speaker 1: this dude was following along. And we know he had
27:33
Speaker 1: a Reddit account because he posted that survey there. And
27:37
Speaker 1: 28 years old, chances are he was on all of
27:40
Speaker 1: the social media accounts. We've already seen screenshots of him
27:46
Speaker 1: following Kaylee and Madison on Instagram as well. So the
27:50
Speaker 1: dude certainly was active on social media. So would it
27:54
Speaker 1: be that big of a leap for this dude to
27:56
Speaker 1: be following along and perhaps engaging in some of these conversations?
28:01
Speaker 2: I don't think it would be. And we're in a
28:03
Speaker 2: new age, right?
28:05
Speaker 1: Whereas in the old days, you'd have these killers clipping
28:08
Speaker 1: out newspaper clippings of articles and stuff like that to
28:12
Speaker 1: memorialize what they have done. Now they could just jump
28:15
Speaker 1: on the internet, have a couple of pages, you know,
28:19
Speaker 1: saved on their favorites and go back and marvel at
28:21
Speaker 1: their work whenever they want. And that's how these people think.
28:26
Speaker 1: They don't think like normal folks like me or you.
28:28
Speaker 1: They don't have any morality. They don't have any empathy
28:31
Speaker 1: for what they have done. Kohlberger, 28, was arrested on
28:36
Speaker 1: December 30th at his parents' house in Albrightville, Pennsylvania, following
28:40
Speaker 1: the deaths of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, Ethan Chapin,
28:46
Speaker 1: who were fatally stabbed in their beds in an off-campus
28:49
Speaker 1: residence in Moscow, Idaho. Kohlberger has been charged with four
28:53
Speaker 1: counts of first-degree murder and one felony burglary charge. Jason Labar,
28:59
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's Pennsylvania public defender, said his client denies the allegations
29:04
Speaker 1: and is eager to be exonerated of these charges. LaBar
29:08
Speaker 1: added that Koberger's family thinks the allegations are completely out
29:12
Speaker 1: of character and don't believe it to be Brian. Now,
29:15
Speaker 1: if your family thinks it's you, then you got some problems.
29:19
Speaker 1: Remember with Quentin Simon, the little baby whose mom just
29:22
Speaker 1: killed him recently? Everybody thought it was her right away,
29:26
Speaker 1: even her own family members. So if your own family
29:29
Speaker 1: members think you're guilty, chances are you're cooked. Here, however,
29:33
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's family has come out and said they're going
29:36
Speaker 1: to stand behind him. And they think that the police.
29:40
Speaker 1: and the investigators have the wrong guy. The case attracted
29:45
Speaker 1: considerable attention from amateur detectives online, intensified by the gap
29:49
Speaker 1: between the killings and police making an arrest. Yeah, something
29:53
Speaker 1: like this is always going to grab the attention of everybody, basically.
29:59
Speaker 1: Whenever you have a crime that is as heinous and
30:03
Speaker 1: as grisly as this with no answers, people are going
30:06
Speaker 1: to demand some action and demand some answers. But it's
30:10
Speaker 1: not a movie. It takes time. And while the messaging
30:15
Speaker 1: was piss poor from the Moscow Police Department for a
30:18
Speaker 1: good portion of this, the actual work that they did
30:22
Speaker 1: is fantastic. So I'll take bad messaging as long as
30:26
Speaker 1: it ends up with the arrest of the person they
30:28
Speaker 1: say is responsible. Because for me, the most important part
30:32
Speaker 1: is the justice. Let's not forget that. We have four
30:36
Speaker 1: college kids who were murdered brutally in their sleep. And
30:40
Speaker 1: somebody has to face justice for that. Two of those
30:44
Speaker 1: who commented on the case, a Facebook user going by
30:47
Speaker 1: the name Papa Rogers and a Reddit poster inside looking,
30:51
Speaker 1: appeared to have a detailed knowledge of the case. and
30:53
Speaker 1: made claims that later turned out to be true. This
30:57
Speaker 1: led to speculation that one or both accounts could have
31:00
Speaker 1: been operated by the suspected killer. And if it turns
31:03
Speaker 1: out that it was operated by him, the authorities are
31:06
Speaker 1: going to know that. They've already got warrants with him
31:09
Speaker 1: in custody and having this probable cause affidavit already out.
31:14
Speaker 1: The judge will easily sign off on these warrants if
31:17
Speaker 1: they're looking for more digital evidence.
31:19
Speaker 2: Forget it. Papa Rogers was.
31:23
Speaker 1: A member of the University of Idaho Murders Case Discussion
31:26
Speaker 1: Facebook group until the account was removed after posting some
31:30
Speaker 1: really creepy stuff, according to group administrator Christine Cameron. Now
31:36
Speaker 1: imagine what kind of creeper you have to be to
31:39
Speaker 1: get thrown out of one of those weird-ass Facebook groups.
31:43
Speaker 1: On November 30th, Papa Rogers posted, Of the evidence released,
31:47
Speaker 1: the murder weapon has been consistent as a large fixed
31:50
Speaker 1: blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath.
31:53
Speaker 1: This evidence was released prior to autopsies.
31:57
Speaker 2: Well, okay.
31:58
Speaker 1: I can see how people would think that him knowing
32:00
Speaker 1: about the sheath is a very important thing to know
32:04
Speaker 1: if you're the killer. But weren't there rumors about this
32:08
Speaker 1: sheath previous to that? Now, I don't really do the
32:10
Speaker 1: whole rumor thing here on the podcast, but I do
32:13
Speaker 1: follow along with what's going on. And I heard about
32:16
Speaker 1: that sheath a long time ago, just like we had
32:19
Speaker 1: heard rumors that there was a masked man that one
32:22
Speaker 1: of the roommates had seen. Now, those hadn't been corroborated
32:25
Speaker 1: at the time, but that certainly was a rumor that
32:28
Speaker 1: was out there.
32:29
Speaker 2: Same with this sheath.
32:30
Speaker 1: So did he come up with that or did he
32:32
Speaker 1: hear this somewhere and post it on Facebook? While police
32:37
Speaker 1: did say they were searching for a bladed murder weapon,
32:40
Speaker 1: it wasn't revealed that officers had found the knife's sheath
32:43
Speaker 1: at the murder scene until the probable cause affidavit was
32:46
Speaker 1: released on Thursday. Papa Roger's post attracted the suspicion of
32:51
Speaker 1: Jennifer Coffendaffer, a former FBI agent who on Friday shared
32:55
Speaker 1: it on Twitter. She tweeted, I have followed Papa Roger's
32:59
Speaker 1: comments with intrigue. This comment was of particular interest after
33:04
Speaker 1: the release of the PCA. The comments just seem to
33:07
Speaker 1: hit home. And while I think Jennifer Coffendaffer has done
33:11
Speaker 1: a really good job following this case and keeping people informed,
33:15
Speaker 1: I don't agree with her here. And you're going to
33:17
Speaker 1: see why later on. In response to another Twitter user
33:22
Speaker 1: who asked whether the killer would have left the digital
33:24
Speaker 1: trail that incriminating, Coffendaffer wrote, he drove his own car,
33:29
Speaker 1: carried his own phone, and didn't clip his sheath tight enough.
33:33
Speaker 1: So I do believe he could leave a digital trail.
33:36
Speaker 2: He was a hot mess.
33:37
Speaker 1: Intelligent with no common sense equals a criminal bound to
33:41
Speaker 1: be caught. Or a criminal who planned on being caught. Again,
33:45
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I certainly ascribe to that by any means.
33:48
Speaker 1: But when you look at all of the mistakes this
33:50
Speaker 1: guy made, either he is the worst criminal since stacks
33:54
Speaker 1: from Goodfellas forgot to get rid of the van or
33:58
Speaker 1: this dude didn't care about getting caught. Because if you
34:02
Speaker 1: leave a digital trail like this and you leave all
34:04
Speaker 1: of this evidence, what are people supposed to think? And
34:08
Speaker 1: Jennifer Coffendaffer might be right here about him being, you know,
34:12
Speaker 1: intelligent as far as book smart, but with no common sense.
34:16
Speaker 1: How many people do you know like that in your
34:17
Speaker 1: own life? I know so many people like that, that
34:20
Speaker 1: it's not even funny. And most of them have no
34:23
Speaker 1: idea that they're actually pretty stupid when it comes to
34:27
Speaker 1: common sense. So a profile like that for a dude
34:31
Speaker 1: like Brian Koberger certainly fits with what I would think
34:34
Speaker 1: it would be. At one point, Papa Rogers got into
34:38
Speaker 1: an argument about the murders with another Facebook user who asked,
34:42
Speaker 1: why do you communicate like a serial killer? And while
34:45
Speaker 1: that sounds damning, there's a lot of commentary like that
34:48
Speaker 1: on these forums, whether it be Reddit or Facebook. You know,
34:52
Speaker 1: people are commenting and somebody else will say, oh, what
34:55
Speaker 1: are you, a serial killer? You're commenting like you're the killer.
34:58
Speaker 1: Or they'll say something like, oh, Brian Koberger, is that you?
35:02
Speaker 1: So whenever you hear people say stuff like, oh, why
35:04
Speaker 1: do you communicate like a serial killer? I take that
35:07
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. Turning the decision to later
35:09
Speaker 1: remove Papa Rogers from the Facebook page, Cameron said, Papa
35:13
Speaker 1: Rogers was never a mod or admin in this group.
35:16
Speaker 1: He was on here and argued incessantly with people and
35:19
Speaker 1: said some really creepy stuff and posted similar questions to
35:23
Speaker 1: Brian's crime questions. She added, we removed Papa Rogers at
35:28
Speaker 1: 710 the evening before Brian's arrest. He created a group
35:31
Speaker 1: page and had six people in it. No one has
35:34
Speaker 1: heard from Papa Rogers since the arrest. And this will
35:37
Speaker 1: be easy for the police to figure out one way
35:40
Speaker 1: or the other, right? They'll just have to track this
35:42
Speaker 1: down digitally and hit up these social media sites where
35:45
Speaker 1: these were posted, pull a warrant, and get the information.
35:51
Speaker 1: Brian's crime questions appear to be references to questions posted
35:55
Speaker 1: on Reddit and several months ago by a user called
35:58
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger, prior to the Moscow murders, who asked criminals
36:02
Speaker 1: for details about what they felt while committing crimes. The
36:05
Speaker 1: account has since been suspended, and Koberger, who was arrested,
36:09
Speaker 1: was a PhD student studying criminal justice and criminology at
36:13
Speaker 1: Washington State University, though authorities haven't confirmed if he was
36:18
Speaker 1: behind the Reddit posts. He obviously was. Come on. What
36:21
Speaker 1: do you mean, if he was behind them? I don't
36:23
Speaker 1: need the authorities to confirm that. We saw it for ourselves. Well,
36:27
Speaker 1: that's before it got scrubbed. After the Moscow murders, the
36:32
Speaker 1: case was discussed in depth by a user called Inside
36:35
Speaker 1: Looking who posted on the Moscow.
36:37
Speaker 2: Murders Reddit group.
36:39
Speaker 1: The user correctly identified the importance of a white Hyundai
36:42
Speaker 1: Elantra seen near the crime scene and that shoe prints
36:46
Speaker 1: at the scene likely belonged to the suspect. before the
36:48
Speaker 1: information was confirmed by police. Well, that's great, and that's true.
36:53
Speaker 1: But this information was floating out there in a rumor
36:56
Speaker 1: mill for a while. So this person, because they comment
37:00
Speaker 1: on that, all of a sudden, this person is Brian
37:03
Speaker 1: Koberger posting on Reddit. In one post, Inside Looking posted, Speculation.
37:10
Speaker 1: Killer parked behind the house, approached the property through the
37:13
Speaker 1: tree lines. Entered sliding door and left it open. Committed
37:17
Speaker 1: murders and exited sliding door. One knife according to coroner's statements.
37:22
Speaker 1: And here's where the problem comes for me. Time of
37:25
Speaker 1: murder approximately 3.20 a.m. and 3.40 a.m. We know that
37:29
Speaker 1: that's not the case now. We know that the door
37:32
Speaker 1: dash order didn't even get there until 4 a.m. So
37:36
Speaker 1: while he might be close with the statements, how does
37:38
Speaker 1: this jive? This is one of the most crucial parts
37:41
Speaker 1: of the whole thing, right? What time the murders occurred.
37:44
Speaker 1: And old boys out here, almost an hour off. A
37:51
Speaker 1: white sedan was seen fleeing the scene on camera on
37:54
Speaker 1: Highway 8 approximately at 3.45 a.m. Vehicle left skid marks
37:58
Speaker 1: upon exit. While there's a little bit of truth in there,
38:02
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot that isn't true. We know that
38:05
Speaker 1: the car wasn't speeding away at 3.45 a.m. And we
38:08
Speaker 1: know that the murders weren't even committed yet. So like
38:11
Speaker 1: I said, when you look at this in the totality
38:14
Speaker 1: of it, Seems to me like somebody out here playing
38:16
Speaker 1: some fan fiction and was pretty close on a couple
38:20
Speaker 1: of the rumors. But if you don't have the key
38:22
Speaker 1: details down, how can anyone out here try and pitch
38:26
Speaker 1: this as Brian Koberger? In response to one of Inside
38:30
Speaker 1: Looking's post, another Reddit user posted, dude is solving his
38:34
Speaker 1: own crime.
38:34
Speaker 2: Psycho.
38:36
Speaker 1: And this is again what I'm talking about. You'll see
38:38
Speaker 1: a lot of comments like that. Wisecracks, people being, you know,
38:41
Speaker 1: smart Alex and all the rest of that nonsense that
38:44
Speaker 1: you see in public message forums. Inside Looking's Reddit profile
38:49
Speaker 1: initially showed a masked man dressed in black holding a flashlight.
38:53
Speaker 1: Authorities haven't formally made any links between the Papa Rogers
38:57
Speaker 1: and Inside Looking social media accounts to Koberger. Newsweek has
39:01
Speaker 1: contacted Moscow Police Department for comment. Um, they're under a
39:05
Speaker 1: gag order, so you're not going to get much comment
39:07
Speaker 1: from them. Meanwhile, the parents of Kaylee Gonsalves said on
39:11
Speaker 1: Thursday that Koberger should face the death penalty if he's
39:14
Speaker 1: convicted of the killings. During a News Nation interview, when
39:18
Speaker 1: asked about capital punishment, Kaylee's mother, Christy, responded, We're glad
39:22
Speaker 1: that we live in Idaho, one of 27 states where
39:26
Speaker 1: the death penalty stands. And I talked about this yesterday
39:30
Speaker 1: a little bit. And if he is convicted and they
39:33
Speaker 1: have the evidence and it's concrete, then, yep, the death
39:36
Speaker 1: penalty is exactly the penalty that this dude should get.
39:41
Speaker 1: Anyone who walks into someone's home and murders them while
39:44
Speaker 1: they're in their bed asleep, that is somebody that has
39:47
Speaker 1: no business living amongst the rest of us and certainly
39:50
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be propped up and put on some
39:53
Speaker 1: death row for 35 years where the taxpayers of Idaho
39:57
Speaker 1: have to keep taking care of them. So what do
40:00
Speaker 1: you folks think? Do you think that Brian Koberger was
40:04
Speaker 1: following along on these Facebook threads? Or do you think
40:07
Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger was following along, but maybe in a
40:12
Speaker 1: bit more of a in the background manner? Shoot me
40:15
Speaker 1: some emails and let me know. All right, folks, that's
40:19
Speaker 1: going to do it for this one. If you'd like
40:20
Speaker 1: to contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com.
40:25
Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find me on
40:33
Speaker 1: Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed
40:40
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box.