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"I don't want to be a pastor. . . I want to be a spy" · The Gratitude Letters

• 0:16
  Jen: I'm Jen Shenk, and this is The Gratitude Letters.
• 0:20
  Jen: Our podcast features letters read aloud by you, our listeners,
• 0:25
  Jen: to someone who's made an impact on your life.
• 0:28
  Jen: Today's episode will be a bit different. Our letter was submitted by Ryan Ahlgrim.
• 0:35
  Jen: He's a Mennonite pastor of more than 40 years.
• 0:38
  Jen: Ryan wanted to thank his mentor and pastor, Joe.
• 0:42
  Jen: Joe was a funny, warm man of steadfast faith who planted the seeds of belief in a
• 0:48
  Jen: young boy and shaped the pastor Ryan is today.
• 0:53
  Jen: Unfortunately, Joe passed away many years ago. So rather than our usual format of an
• 1:01
  Jen: interview, today's episode will be just Ryan sharing his letter to Joe,
• 1:07
  Jen: along with memories that shaped him. Through Ryan's stories,
• 1:11
  Jen: we get to watch a pastor being made. Here at The Gratitude Letters,
• 1:17
  Jen: we truly believe that it's never too late to say thank you.
• 1:22
  Jen: As you listen to Ryan remember Joe and express his gratitude,
• 1:26
  Jen: you may feel what we felt in the recording studio,
• 1:31
  Jen: that somehow this letter has already been delivered. Here's Ryan.
• 1:42
  Ryan: I'm Ryan Ahlgrim, and I'm the pastor of First Mennonite Church of Richmond in
• 1:48
  Ryan: Virginia. I've been a pastor for, well, a credentialed pastor for over 40 years.
• 1:57
  Ryan: When I was 10 years old, I know that my church was without a pastor.
• 2:01
  Ryan: I remember on Sunday afternoons I would ask him, "Well,
• 2:04
  Ryan: how was the guest preacher today?" And I remember my dad kind of assessing the
• 2:08
  Ryan: candidates and, and I was interested in that.
• 2:11
  Ryan: I remember him making the comment that they get a free house,
• 2:15
  Ryan: which appealed to me. "Oh, you get a free house. That sounds good."
• 2:19
  Ryan: And the concept of God that- that's over us, uh, is the source of all goodness,
• 2:24
  Ryan: of love, of creativity, and again, you're helping people, and I wanted to be good,
• 2:29
  Ryan: you know? So what could be more good than being a pastor who speaks with God and God
• 2:35
  Ryan: speaks with them, and then they tell the congregation what God is saying?
• 2:39
  Ryan: That was my childish understanding of how sermons work.
• 2:42
  Ryan: And so it was like, "Wow, this is the most incredible job in the world would be to be
• 2:48
  Ryan: a pastor." At 10 years old, I do remember telling God, you know,
• 2:52
  Ryan: "I promise that when I grow up, I'm going to be a pastor."
• 2:56
  Ryan: And that lasted about a year, and then, you know, after watching a, uh,
• 3:00
  Ryan: James Bond movie at the theater, it was like, "No, I think I want to be a spy."
• 3:04
  Ryan: Being a spy just seemed a lot more exciting now than being a pastor.
• 3:12
  Ryan: And by this time, the church had a new pastor and his name was Joe Richards.
• 3:17
  Ryan: I remember one day, I was 11 years old, after Sunday school class,
• 3:22
  Ryan: I approached him and, uh, I addressed him as Reverend Richards,
• 3:26
  Ryan: which is actually not a very Mennonite way of addressing your pastor,
• 3:29
  Ryan: but that's how my mother said I should speak to him, Reverend Richards.
• 3:33
  Ryan: I said, "Reverend Richards, let's just say, for instance, let's just say, oh,
• 3:37
  Ryan: I promised God that I'd be a pastor, but I don't wanna do that anymore.
• 3:43
  Ryan: What will God do to me if I don't do that?"
• 3:46
  Ryan: My memory is that there was just this little bit of a smile on his face, uh,
• 3:50
  Ryan: you know, certainly a gentle countenance on his face, and he said, "Well,
• 3:55
  Ryan: I think God will take your age into account," which was a great answer,
• 4:01
  Ryan: and I felt very relieved. "Oh, okay. I- I'm gonna be a spy then."
• 4:08
  Ryan: Dear Joe, that was the beginning of my relationship with you, and through you,
• 4:13
  Ryan: a relationship with a loving and merciful God.
• 4:16
  Ryan: That relationship deepened in 1971 when I was 13,
• 4:21
  Ryan: laid up in the hospital with a severely broken leg.
• 4:24
  Ryan: You visited me and you gave me a book, The Chosen, by Chaim Potok,
• 4:29
  Ryan: about an injured boy who explores his Jewish faith and traditions.
• 4:34
  Ryan: The meaning of the book was beyond my comprehension,
• 4:36
  Ryan: but I remember how the boy studied the Talmud more intensely than all the other
• 4:41
  Ryan: students in his class, arriving at an interpretation that challenged what was
• 4:46
  Ryan: considered safe and acceptable. Uh, Joe was a, a short man, kind of rotund.
• 4:59
  Ryan: We don't use the word fat anymore, but he was, he was on the heavier side,
• 5:03
  Ryan: I'll put it that way. Balding, but he had kind of this jolly face,
• 5:07
  Ryan: always beaming warmness. And I always liked Joe.
• 5:11
  Ryan: I just thought he was such a gentle and nice man.
• 5:13
  Ryan: I remember Emma, his wife, who then later became a co-pastor with Joe,
• 5:18
  Ryan: was a little bit more rule-oriented. You know, "Let's get in line here.
• 5:23
  Ryan: Come on, let's do this the right way." I never heard Joe ever raise his voice or
• 5:27
  Ryan: anything like that. Uh, he came across to me as being an intelligent man.
• 5:31
  Ryan: He was a man of vision. You know, he was always coming up with ideas.
• 5:35
  Ryan: I remember one time he played a record during his sermon.
• 5:40
  Ryan: The sermon had something to do with a, a song or music or whatever,
• 5:45
  Ryan: and the pulpit was such that he had a, a phonograph hidden in the pulpit,
• 5:51
  Ryan: and he put on this record and, and then a song started playing,
• 5:55
  Ryan: and he just sort of closed his eyes and, uh,
• 5:58
  Ryan: swung his arms a little bit like he was directing an orchestra.
• 6:02
  Ryan: And it was just creative. 13, 14, I guess I was 14.
• 6:10
  Ryan: I was on a, a trip with our youth group to Germany and surrounding countries, uh,
• 6:17
  Ryan: for a month, uh, studying Mennonite history, Anabaptist history,
• 6:20
  Ryan: and Joe came along on that trip. And so that's where I really got to know Joe on a
• 6:24
  Ryan: more personal basis. Well, during that trip, as a 14-year-old,
• 6:29
  Ryan: I had lots of questions, mostly about sex and ethical issues.
• 6:36
  Ryan: You know, what, h- how much sex can you have, you know, before you're married,
• 6:39
  Ryan: and those kinds of things. And I just became very uninhibited during that trip,
• 6:44
  Ryan: and I think it was really startling to Joe.
• 6:48
  Ryan: His son, uh, Evan Richards, who- and was also on that trip, uh, Evan later told me,
• 6:54
  Ryan: uh, back when we were in college, Evan said, "Yeah, uh,
• 6:58
  Ryan: when we came back from that trip, I remember Dad saying, 'Yeah,
• 7:01
  Ryan: there's Ryan one and there's Ryan two. They're two different people.'
• 7:06
  Ryan: Ryan one is quiet and reserved, you know, nice, and, and then Ryan two,
• 7:12
  Ryan: who knows what's gonna come out of his mouth."
• 7:15
  Ryan: During my high school years, at least I got closer to Joe.
• 7:20
  Ryan: And, uh, I remember calling him up one time and just saying, "Joe,
• 7:24
  Ryan: could we get together? I just wanna talk about me.
• 7:27
  Ryan: You know, who am I, and, and, and what I'm going through in my life."
• 7:32
  Ryan: And I remember we, we, he picked me up, I think, and we went out to a pizzeria, and,
• 7:36
  Ryan: and while we're eating pizza, you know, I just sort of poured out the,
• 7:40
  Ryan: the questions and problems of my life. And, and he listened.
• 7:45
  Ryan: And, and so to have this adult that I could feel f- comfortable being with and
• 7:53
  Ryan: talking about things that I couldn't really talk very easily with my parents
• 7:58
  Ryan: about, and, uh, I just knew that here's someone who's, who's willing to do this,
• 8:02
  Ryan: and I can do this with complete comfort. And so I think that's when I really
• 8:06
  Ryan: started becoming very close to him. Dear Joe, as a teenager,
• 8:15
  Ryan: I became very active in the church's youth group,
• 8:18
  Ryan: and I turned to you with my questions about God and about my identity.
• 8:22
  Ryan: I'm embarrassed now by my immature behavior at the time,
• 8:26
  Ryan: but you saw the future pastor in me before I did.
• 8:30
  Ryan: During my sophomore year at Goshen College, after I told you I was gonna be a
• 8:35
  Ryan: Bible major, you wrote me a surprising letter. "Don't," you advised.
• 8:41
  Ryan: "As you go to seminary, you'll only have to repeat a lot of it."
• 8:45
  Ryan: And then you recommended a different direction.
• 8:46
  Ryan: You wrote, "Why not major in communications, speech, journalism,
• 8:51
  Ryan: et cetera? You have real gifts in these areas.
• 8:55
  Ryan: You need to get a broad basis now while you can.
• 8:58
  Ryan: I majored in Bible in college, and I believe it was a mistake."
• 9:02
  Ryan: Well, as a result of your letter, I chose to become an English major,
• 9:07
  Ryan: and not only did I love it, but it proved to be a rich grounding and resource for
• 9:11
  Ryan: future ministry. Because of your advocacy, Lombard Mennonite Church hired me as its
• 9:17
  Ryan: first youth mis- minister after I graduated from college.
• 9:21
  Ryan: During that year, you taught me important lessons about how to be a pastor.
• 9:32
  Ryan: He still did some pastoral care and one time he asked, you know,
• 9:37
  Ryan: "Would you come with me? We're gonna go to the hospital and visit a,
• 9:41
  Ryan: a young woman who's, who's dying of cancer." And, uh, so we went to this,
• 9:45
  Ryan: to the hospital, and so I got to see him doing pastoral care with this young woman
• 9:52
  Ryan: who was slowly dying of cancer, uh, speaking with her,
• 9:55
  Ryan: reading scriptures with her, having a prayer with her.
• 10:00
  Ryan: And I was just so struck by the comfort that he was giving her, and I thought,
• 10:06
  Ryan: "Wow, I could never do this. How in the world would I...
• 10:08
  Ryan: You know, I'm completely incapable of doing this.
• 10:11
  Ryan: How do I bring the comfort of God into this?"
• 10:14
  Ryan: I was really kind of scared of chaos. So just seeing him doing that, I was like,
• 10:21
  Ryan: "Okay. Wow, this is really something." And then the other thing that I saw him do
• 10:25
  Ryan: that year, the church had a party for him. It might have been a birthday party.
• 10:29
  Ryan: It might have been something else. I can't rem- It was something in his honor.
• 10:32
  Ryan: And then after everybody left, there was lots of crumbs on the floor and things
• 10:36
  Ryan: like that, and he pulls out a, a carpet sweeper and starts cleaning up.
• 10:41
  Ryan: And he said to me, "Yep, this is ministry, too."
• 10:45
  Ryan: You know, in other words, you can't, uh, see yourself as being above it all,
• 10:51
  Ryan: you know. No, you're still a part of it all, and ministry is a,
• 10:56
  Ryan: is a humble profession. And, uh, so again, that was something that I had to learn.
• 11:01
  Ryan: I'm not sure I wanted to be humble. There i- there was this tension early on in my
• 11:07
  Ryan: ministry, at least I certainly perceived it that way back into my 20s.
• 11:11
  Ryan: How do I be myself and be a Mennonite pastor?
• 11:15
  Ryan: Because Mennonites can be a little bit on the, on the stodgy side.
• 11:19
  Ryan: Joe and I had some theological disagreements.
• 11:22
  Ryan: You know, Joe and Emma, actually, at that time, they were very staunch, "No, no,
• 11:27
  Ryan: you've got to be a pacifist in order to be a Mennonite because that's what makes the
• 11:32
  Ryan: Mennonite church so distinctive. And so if we don't wanna lose that distinctiveness,
• 11:37
  Ryan: then we really need to make that a requirement for membership."
• 11:40
  Ryan: And I understand that. That makes, actually that makes perfect sense,
• 11:43
  Ryan: except that the church, the Mennonite church, is not a club.
• 11:47
  Ryan: It is not a, an exclusive religious club. Then it has to be open to anyone who is
• 11:54
  Ryan: searching. When I became a pastor and in my first pastorate, I got to know a,
• 12:00
  Ryan: a lesbian couple. They started coming to my church, and I,
• 12:03
  Ryan: my position was there's no reason why they can't be members of the church,
• 12:07
  Ryan: which was also at the height of the AIDS crisis.
• 12:11
  Ryan: But that really gave people attitudes toward, uh,
• 12:15
  Ryan: homosexuality became much more negative in the '80s.
• 12:18
  Ryan: So anyway, I had this position that gay and lesbian people ought to be able to be
• 12:22
  Ryan: members of the church, and, uh, Joe and Emma were so against that way of thinking.
• 12:28
  Ryan: I was surprised. I had never experienced Joe as being exclusive before.
• 12:35
  Ryan: And yet now I was learning, oh, okay, no, there are these firm boundaries for him.
• 12:41
  Ryan: And, and I realize now that Joe grew up in a culture in which gay relationships,
• 12:47
  Ryan: all gay relationships, would have been viewed as a mental disorder.
• 12:52
  Ryan: But of course, our knowledge of homosexuality has changed quite a bit.
• 12:57
  Ryan: And, uh, you know, we got a lot different data now than what we had then.
• 13:02
  Ryan: And, and Joe, before he died, he told me, "You know, Ryan, I've,
• 13:07
  Ryan: I've changed my mind. I now believe that, uh, gay people who wanna join the church,
• 13:13
  Ryan: they ought to be able to join the church."
• 13:19
  Ryan: It was painful to have such strong disagreements with Joe and Emma.
• 13:24
  Ryan: But I mean, I knew that they still loved me.
• 13:28
  Ryan: They still thought I was a wonderful pastor.
• 13:29
  Ryan: They wanted me to continue in ministry. I always had their full support,
• 13:35
  Ryan: and I was always grateful for what they had given me. So that was never affected.
• 13:41
  Ryan: Well, the other issue that came up when I was in seminary,
• 13:45
  Ryan: I started dating a woman who was divorced, and Emma said, "Oh, Ryan,
• 13:50
  Ryan: you've got to get out of that relationship.
• 13:52
  Ryan: You know, there's- you're committing professional suicide."
• 13:56
  Ryan: You know, um, at that time in the Mennonite church,
• 13:59
  Ryan: there were no pastors who had been divorced.
• 14:03
  Ryan: I mean, divorce just disqualified you from ministry, period.
• 14:06
  Ryan: To marry somebody who'd been divorced also disqualifies you because in the Gospels,
• 14:11
  Ryan: Jesus, uh, takes a stance against divorce and against remarriage.
• 14:15
  Ryan: And it's like, you're a pastor. Well, then you gotta, obviously,
• 14:18
  Ryan: you've gotta follow those teachings. Now, I understood Jesus differently,
• 14:23
  Ryan: and I did not think that it was wrong for me to be dating a divorced woman or to
• 14:27
  Ryan: marry a divorced woman. A- and in fact, Emma even said, "Oh,
• 14:31
  Ryan: I guess it's true what they say, love is blind."
• 14:34
  Ryan: You know, those of us who came of age in the '70s,
• 14:38
  Ryan: there were such giant cultural changes in the '60s.
• 14:41
  Ryan: Attitudes on all kinds of things changed so drastically in the '70s,
• 14:47
  Ryan: and those things affected the Mennonite Church. We just came with a- an entirely
• 14:51
  Ryan: different set of assumptions than the pastors that would have come the
• 14:56
  Ryan: generation before us. I, I happened to become the,
• 14:59
  Ryan: the chair of the Faith Life in Practice committee of the Illinois Mennonite
• 15:03
  Ryan: Conference, which was a committee that was supposed to resolve theological issues
• 15:08
  Ryan: that we were dealing with. And the first issue that we- that came up was there was
• 15:13
  Ryan: a- an ordained minister from another denomination who wanted to transfer into
• 15:17
  Ryan: the Mennonite Church and become a pastor in the Illinois Conference.
• 15:21
  Ryan: But he was divorced and remarried. And so I then helped to design a study done by
• 15:31
  Ryan: the entire Illinois Mennonite Conference on this issue,
• 15:35
  Ryan: and then the delegates came together to vote on it,
• 15:39
  Ryan: and they voted to say pastors can be called by churches based on their
• 15:46
  Ryan: giftedness and, and that this issue will not be decisive for that.
• 15:52
  Ryan: And I was in the right place at the right time to be able to give input in a new
• 16:01
  Ryan: direction Well, for many years, he, uh, and Emma would invite me back to Lombard
• 16:10
  Ryan: Mennonite. The last Sunday of, of August every year was an ice cream social
• 16:15
  Ryan: followed by a, um, a square dance in the parking lot of the church,
• 16:20
  Ryan: and I was always the caller for the square dance.
• 16:22
  Ryan: I had learned square dance calling when I was in college.
• 16:25
  Ryan: And then when they learned about that, they said, "Oh, we need to,
• 16:29
  Ryan: we need to have a square dance here at our church, and we'll make you the caller."
• 16:32
  Ryan: So while the music's playing, a little band playing banjos or,
• 16:35
  Ryan: or guitars and fiddles and all that, uh, the caller is saying, uh, "Allemande left,
• 16:42
  Ryan: and, and, uh, you know, all join hands and go to the middle.
• 16:45
  Ryan: And with your big foot, keep time to the fiddle.
• 16:47
  Ryan: And when you get back, remember my call. Swing on the corner and promenade all."
• 16:51
  Ryan: You know, so you're, you're calling out the directions during the song,
• 16:55
  Ryan: and so people know what to do. And I did that all through my first pastorate and,
• 17:01
  Ryan: uh, until they retired. And then after they retired, they retired to Goshen.
• 17:07
  Ryan: Whenever I was in town, for whatever reason,
• 17:10
  Ryan: I would always make a point of coming over to visit them,
• 17:13
  Ryan: and they would always make some ramen soup, and, and we would, uh,
• 17:17
  Ryan: a little meal together, and then we would talk for hours.
• 17:21
  Ryan: They were always so interested. You know,
• 17:23
  Ryan: "Tell us everything that's happening in your ministry,
• 17:25
  Ryan: everything that's going on." And they were excited when I got married,
• 17:29
  Ryan: and then it was bringing my wife to meet them.
• 17:32
  Ryan: And every time I was in Goshen with my wife, we would drop in and see them.
• 17:37
  Ryan: And, and Joe was always, again, being very generous.
• 17:40
  Ryan: He was always giving me something, some project he was working on.
• 17:44
  Ryan: "Here, take this," or whatever. And, and one time, I was admiring some, uh,
• 17:47
  Ryan: figurines, uh, from, uh, Ten Thousand Villages, which was a,
• 17:52
  Ryan: a fair trade organization that, that, that sells items, uh, crafts.
• 17:58
  Ryan: And he had all these carved animals, and, and then there was a water buffalo.
• 18:03
  Ryan: And I, I remember pointing it out, "Oh, that's a really neat, uh,
• 18:07
  Ryan: sculpture there." We stayed overnight, and the next day, he gives me a,
• 18:11
  Ryan: a brown paper bag and says, "Well, here, I packed a, a lunch for you guys.
• 18:14
  Ryan: Uh, there's a, a beef sandwich inside." Well, we get in the car. We drive off.
• 18:20
  Ryan: We stop for lunch. I open up the paper bag. Well, there's the water buffalo.
• 18:23
  Ryan: The beef sandwich is a water buffalo. Dear Joe,
• 18:31
  Ryan: when I became pastor of my own congregation in Peoria, Illinois,
• 18:36
  Ryan: you took great pride in me. I visited you as often as I could, and each time I did,
• 18:41
  Ryan: you wanted to hear everything I was doing. I felt like I was your own son One of my
• 18:47
  Ryan: most fortunate opportunities was when we were roommates on an educational tour in
• 18:53
  Ryan: Israel and Egypt. Together we explored the old city of Jerusalem and the sacred sites
• 18:58
  Ryan: along the shore of the Sea of Galilee. And one morning you were gazing at the hills
• 19:03
  Ryan: surrounding Jerusalem and you said, "Now I know what the psalmist was picturing when
• 19:08
  Ryan: he said, 'I lift up mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.
• 19:14
  Ryan: My help cometh from the Lord who made heaven and earth.'" Yeah,
• 19:24
  Ryan: so as the years went by, I could see, you know,
• 19:26
  Ryan: both of them physically deteriorating. Emma was in a wheelchair.
• 19:31
  Ryan: Joe then, uh, told me one day that he had Parkinson's disease.
• 19:36
  Ryan: Yeah, you realize the, the time is coming when they will not be here.
• 19:41
  Ryan: And, um, you know, Emma died first. At the funeral, which I preached at,
• 19:48
  Ryan: Emma had specifically wanted me to preach her sermon for her funeral.
• 19:53
  Ryan: And, and Joe was there. And Joe, Joe by that time was also then in a wheelchair.
• 19:57
  Ryan: Uh, the Parkinson's was pretty advanced at that point.
• 20:00
  Ryan: And he could barely speak actually at that point. And so, yeah, it's very hard.
• 20:06
  Ryan: And there was, during those last few years,
• 20:09
  Ryan: I was really wanting to get alone with Joe so that I could talk with him about,
• 20:13
  Ryan: you know, "How do you feel about dying? And, you know,
• 20:16
  Ryan: what are you going through now?" Because of circumstances,
• 20:20
  Ryan: I was never able to have that time alone with him where I could just ask him those
• 20:26
  Ryan: questions. And that's one of my regrets. I, I sure wish that I had been able to ask
• 20:31
  Ryan: him those, those profound questions that need to be talked about,
• 20:37
  Ryan: where I could have been a pastor for him instead of him always being a pastor for
• 20:43
  Ryan: me. I think he was looking for someone who could be his pastor, and, uh,
• 20:48
  Ryan: and I regret that I was not able to do that.
• 20:56
  Ryan: It may have been his son, Evan, who called me, uh,
• 20:59
  Ryan: to tell me that he had passed away. I think that's probably how it was.
• 21:06
  Ryan: Well, I knew that I'd have to go there for the funeral, and in fact,
• 21:09
  Ryan: I had just started at Richmond when Emma had died.
• 21:13
  Ryan: It was like a, a year later or something like that, that Joe died, and I, I said,
• 21:18
  Ryan: uh, "I need to, again, I need to be released for the weekend.
• 21:21
  Ryan: I need to be there." And there was a time for telling stories.
• 21:25
  Ryan: Uh, one of the things that I shared was about my wife,
• 21:29
  Ryan: who found out that she had breast cancer, and, uh,
• 21:34
  Ryan: and she was very upset about that. We had two very young children at that time.
• 21:40
  Ryan: Uh, they were like one year old and three years old, something like that,
• 21:42
  Ryan: is when she found out she had breast cancer.
• 21:45
  Ryan: And, uh, and my wife, Laurie, uh, her prayer to God was,
• 21:49
  Ryan: "Let me live five years so that my children will remember me."
• 21:55
  Ryan: And, uh, we, uh, we went to, uh, went to Goshen.
• 21:58
  Ryan: We, we visited with Joe and Emma, and Joe just had the most beautiful prayer with
• 22:05
  Ryan: her, just a really beautiful prayer. And, uh, and when we got back in the car and we
• 22:12
  Ryan: were leaving, my wife said to me, "That prayer, boy,
• 22:16
  Ryan: if God ever listens to any prayer, that, that was it."
• 22:20
  Ryan: And, uh, my wife just really felt like, "Now, that, that, that was a prayer.
• 22:26
  Ryan: That, that will do it." And, uh, and she did survive, and she's alive today,
• 22:32
  Ryan: and she was, you know, deeply moved by Joe's presence and, uh, and his,
• 22:37
  Ryan: his prayers and his love. Dear Joe, in 1980,
• 22:47
  Ryan: a couple months after I began my seminary education at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical
• 22:55
  Ryan: Seminary, you sent me a card responding to a letter in which I had told you all about
• 23:01
  Ryan: my new experiences in seminary. Noting the time on your card,
• 23:05
  Ryan: it said 2:15 AM at the top, and you wrote, "For some reason,
• 23:11
  Ryan: I was awakened at this early hour. I prayed for a person, I have no idea who,
• 23:17
  Ryan: but I felt my prayer was needed and I have peace. Does that happen to you?
• 23:22
  Ryan: I find it happens occasionally." Thank you, Joe,
• 23:25
  Ryan: for that image of a pastor whom God awakens to pray for strangers.
• 23:34
  Ryan: Yeah, at this point in my life, and I'm, you know,
• 23:37
  Ryan: coming near probably the end of my pastoral ministry, you know,
• 23:43
  Ryan: I want to lead other people into ministry. I really believe in pastoral ministry.
• 23:49
  Ryan: I just think it's, uh, it's, it's the most meaningful work. It's very important work.
• 23:54
  Ryan: It's the best thing somebody can do. About 20 years ago, I, I wrote an article on,
• 24:00
  Ryan: uh, the greatest job in the world. I was at a conference at my seminary,
• 24:05
  Ryan: and somebody came up to me and, and said,
• 24:07
  Ryan: "Did you write an article about 20 years ago about pastoring being the greatest job
• 24:12
  Ryan: in the world?" And I said, "Yeah, I did write that."
• 24:15
  Ryan: And he said, "You know, when I was a teenager,
• 24:18
  Ryan: my pastor gave me a copy of that article and, and I became a pastor."
• 24:24
  Ryan: I'm not as good at it as, as Joe. I, I'm not as good at,
• 24:27
  Ryan: at leading people into ministry as Joe. I wish I had 19 people that I could point to
• 24:32
  Ryan: and say, "Oh, yeah, they've all become cred-credentialed because of my
• 24:35
  Ryan: influence." But, but I have had an influence on some people.
• 24:45
  Ryan: Dear Joe, you passed away many years ago, but your gentleness is with me always,
• 24:52
  Ryan: as well as your deep faith, sensitive prayer life, incredible generosity,
• 24:58
  Ryan: and visionary leadership. I am the pastor I am because of you.
• 25:04
  Ryan: And throughout my ministry, whenever I've been in a difficult situation and I
• 25:08
  Ryan: haven't known what to do, I always ask myself, "What would Joe do?"
• 25:13
  Ryan: And that never steers me the wrong way
• 25:42
  Jen: What a touching tribute. It's clear that even though Joe wasn't able to hear these
• 25:49
  Jen: words from Ryan in person, his impact lives on.
• 25:53
  Jen: Ryan also brought letters, cards, and the gifts Joe gave him over the years.
• 26:00
  Jen: If you wanna see those and hear the stories behind them,
• 26:03
  Jen: follow The Gratitude Letters on Facebook and Instagram,
• 26:07
  Jen: and we'll be sharing a short video there soon. And now, how about you?
• 26:13
  Jen: Is there someone you wanna thank for making an impact on your life?
• 26:17
  Jen: Maybe someone who's been a mentor to you or influenced your career path somehow.
• 26:22
  Jen: We would love to hear from you.
• 26:25
  Jen: Visit our website at thegratitudeletters.org,
• 26:29
  Jen: where you will find everything you need to send us a letter of your own.
• 26:35
  Jen: The Gratitude Letters is a brand new podcast about the people we are grateful
• 26:40
  Jen: for and taking a moment to let them know.
• 26:43
  Jen: In each episode, someone writes a letter of thanks and we bring it to life.
• 26:47
  Jen: New episodes drop every other Thursday. Search The Gratitude Letters wherever you
• 26:53
  Jen: get your podcasts, and go ahead and hit follow so you never miss an episode.
• 27:00
  Jen: If you liked this podcast and this episode,
• 27:02
  Jen: we'd love it if you'd share it with a friend.
• 27:04
  Jen: And if you take a moment to review it and let us know what you think,
• 27:08
  Jen: we'd love to hear that too. Today's show was produced and sound designed by Yebu
• 27:14
  Jen: Ji. Sound engineering by Alex Dugger. Original music by Hannis Brown.
• 27:19
  Jen: Our marketing manager is Melissa Troyer, and our audience engagement manager is
• 27:24
  Jen: Courtney Dobrzykowski. Duane Stoltzfus is our executive producer.
• 27:30
  Jen: The Gratitude Letters is part of More Than Just Stories with funding from Lilly
• 27:35
  Jen: Endowment. Thanks for listening. And until next time, I'm your host, Jen Shenk,
• 27:42
  Jen: with a reminder that it's never too late and it's always a good time to say thank
• 27:49
  Jen: you.