Latest / What Bitcoin Did / Bitcoin vs Wall Street | American HODL, Junseth & Erik Cason

Transcript

Bitcoin vs Wall Street | American HODL, Junseth & Erik Cason · What Bitcoin Did

• 0:00
  The state has never made anything at any point in time for anyone for any purpose.
• 0:08
  It hates you. It wants to steal from you. It's parasitic and it steals.
• 0:13
  And our country has gone so deep and so thoroughly into each of our own rights,
• 0:18
  none of us know what that looks like anymore.
• 0:21
  What would it mean if we really had community?
• 0:23
  What would it mean if we were no longer robbed blindly by our own government?
• 0:30
  It wasn't about right or left anymore, but it was about whether or not we chose to give one another the right to decide what their lives look like.
• 0:40
  That's why I'm a bitcoiner.
• 0:42
  You think about Bitcoin, it's been 16, 16-ish years, right?
• 0:48
  And there's an entire generation now that has grown up with Bitcoin in the conversation somewhere.
• 0:53
  for their entire lives.
• 0:56
  Like half of America at this point exists
• 0:59
  with Bitcoin in the conversation for half their lives.
• 1:01
  And many of those people are going to start running for Congress.
• 1:03
  Many of those people are going to start becoming politically active.
• 1:06
  And I think the world for Bitcoin is going to change a lot
• 1:09
  because Bitcoin is just something that exists.
• 1:14
  Let me introduce the panel.
• 1:16
  Everybody knows these guys at this point.
• 1:18
  Danny, with What Bitcoin Did, you're over there.
• 1:21
  if you want to come on in.
• 1:23
  You're on that side.
• 1:24
  Junsef, American HODL.
• 1:28
  Where's your pops?
• 1:30
  And Eric Kaysen will be joining us in a second, I'm sure.
• 1:36
  But we're going to get, I think, slammed a little bit.
• 1:41
  We've had a lot of RSVPs.
• 1:43
  So just as a note, we might need to fill in those ones.
• 1:46
  But anyway, Danny, it's your show.
• 1:49
  What do you want to talk about?
• 1:50
  Well, I think...
• 1:51
  Daniel.
• 1:52
  Oh, last PSA.
• 1:54
  I have two more PSAs.
• 1:55
  One, we have some photographers roaming around.
• 1:58
  If you don't want to be photographed, there'll be a flash.
• 2:01
  You can make a note of it.
• 2:03
  Everything's going to be sent to me.
• 2:04
  I think I know most of the people that don't want to be published, the Bitcoiners.
• 2:08
  So there's a safeguard there.
• 2:10
  But this is a public house.
• 2:12
  So just as a side note, there will be some photography.
• 2:15
  Number two, this is a tavern chat.
• 2:17
  If we use a technical term of art that you don't quite know,
• 2:20
  if you want to double click on an issue,
• 2:21
  if you want to ask a question,
• 2:22
  feel free to interrupt.
• 2:24
  It makes it way better.
• 2:25
  This is not supposed to be a panel
• 2:26
  or a fireside chat.
• 2:28
  You can yell at us politely.
• 2:30
  Anyway, Danny.
• 2:32
  Okay, let's get going.
• 2:33
  If you're in the room,
• 2:34
  welcome to the hour and 30 minute episode.
• 2:36
  If you're online,
• 2:39
  enjoy your four or five minutes.
• 2:41
  This will be an hour and 28
• 2:42
  because everything's going to get cut out.
• 2:45
  Junta, last time we did
• 2:46
  What Bitcoin Did Live here,
• 2:48
  do you remember how we started out the show?
• 2:49
  Yeah, Peter sang a song.
• 2:52
  That's not true.
• 2:53
  What song have you got for us?
• 2:54
  I don't have a song.
• 2:55
  I don't have a song.
• 2:56
  I'm glad I prepared it.
• 2:57
  Can I ask someone to just get Eric Kaysen from the bar and tell him we started?
• 3:02
  Tell Eric to come back.
• 3:04
  We'll get his beverage for him.
• 3:05
  I want to start with the most bear market vibes thing I've ever heard.
• 3:09
  John said you've been in Bitcoin since 2011.
• 3:11
  Yeah.
• 3:12
  And you've started cleaning garbage cans.
• 3:15
  Yeah, well, it's a bear market.
• 3:16
  so i started a garbage can cleaning company uh mainly because everyone needs a garbage can
• 3:24
  cleaned and wait now i need money yeah oh i thought this was 2011 so like i just started it
• 3:29
  oh okay i understand where it's called washer cam it seems like a bit but it's not a bit
• 3:35
  hey jenseth called me yesterday sorry this morning when he was at the airport and the
• 3:40
  first thing he started telling me about was these potential contracts he might have for his garbage
• 3:43
  con business a lot of people want to have their garbage cans cleaned yeah yeah they're really
• 3:49
  gross so i'll show up your house and do that well not your house unless you're like in florida
• 3:54
  can you can you pay in bitcoin i'll take bitcoin yeah what the fuck this is pretty straightforward
• 4:01
  pay me in bitcoin yeah it's like i'll pay your credit card bill and you pay me in bitcoin
• 4:06
  absolutely okay so is this a bear market thing no i just i think like well we talked last time about
• 4:12
  uh ai mostly but i think i'm i'm really i really believe that like starting businesses and um and
• 4:20
  just being productive as a man is something really important and i i i have always resented
• 4:25
  bitcoiners who got here and either lived in their mom's basement until they got rich or they are
• 4:31
  still living in their mom's basement hoping to get rich or they're just not rich enough they got to
• 4:35
  do something and so i i'm always doing stuff and uh sometimes the stuff is cleaning garbage cans
• 4:41
  well you got we got a couple HOA right now I think we're up to two HOAs but we got like three or four
• 4:46
  that we're talking about let's go uh hodl you know a little thing or two about uh scrapping
• 4:51
  during a bear market that's true well it is funny because I'll call gents at them like what do you
• 4:56
  think about the state of the market like what's going on with I think sailor's gonna survive this
• 4:59
  with stretch and he's like here's the thing man I got uh four people signed up new cans four new
• 5:05
  I'm gonna get a chance today.
• 5:07
  Every day Every day That how the conversation goes Jinset and Hoddle you are both are both like micas microstrategy fans though do you think so that is going to sometimes are we fans i like it
• 5:17
  when it goes up and i don't like it when it goes down i'm always confused by microstrategy because
• 5:23
  like it seems you know like it might go down a lot more all the time but then sometimes it goes up
• 5:28
  it's very i don't know i never i don't want to criticize him too much because i don't want to
• 5:33
  get sued oh can i dany already did that he has he hasn't received the papers yet i do think that
• 5:41
  bitcoiners were a little bit too quick to like get frothy about like this is our sacrifice there's a
• 5:46
  bit of a satanic streak in bitcoiners waiting for what hero is going to be sacrificed at the altar
• 5:52
  to resume the bear the bull market uh i don't think that this is that i think you know it probably
• 5:57
  works itself the math is complicated but i mean i'm sued it clearly love you michael like i think
• 6:04
  it's very obvious that it's not going to be strategy but i think what is also becoming
• 6:07
  obvious is a lot of these other treasury companies are doomed i'll say that my portfolio is heavy on
• 6:13
  them well i will say in retrospect um giving david bailey my money so that he could buy the top and
• 6:20
  then fly around on a private jet was maybe not the most prudent financial planning i ever did in my
• 6:25
  life but it felt good at the time i love i love doing it i had just a few bucks in there
• 6:31
  i think you know you know you know you know how they got me they got me on fancy jargon they were
• 6:36
  like hey do you want to get it on the pipe i was like hey what the fuck is a pipe and then and then
• 6:41
  they were like yo it's a private equity placement some shit bullshit i was like i want in i want to
• 6:45
  be one of the anointed right and then they were like you're gonna you have to be wall crossed i
• 6:49
  was like what's that what does that mean and they were like uh yeah you can't you're gonna have
• 6:52
  material non-public information you can't say anything to anybody i was like that's fancy that's
• 6:56
  a secret i like that all right let's do it and then i gave you know i gave some money and then
• 7:01
  i was up like two million dollars on paper but it was all illiquid and then it all went to zero
• 7:06
  so wait so like i just want to highlight like this is the gayness that we're at in the entire
• 7:11
  timeline and now like we're talking about like tnl and like all this gay corporate shit
• 7:17
  And like Bitcoin was designed so that you can buy guns, drugs, and pornography that is illegal in whatever country you're in.
• 7:24
  Did not have access to the pipe.
• 7:26
  So like I want this to be like our come to Stoshi moment where we're like, oh, wow, I really went off the deep end there.
• 7:33
  Sorry.
• 7:33
  I never considered buying guns or drugs with it.
• 7:37
  Congratulations.
• 7:38
  Just pornography.
• 7:40
  You were just in it for the Pokemon cards.
• 7:42
  What year were you in?
• 7:43
  A while ago.
• 7:44
  You were in it for the tech?
• 7:47
  other articles.
• 7:50
  Do you think this is just a sign
• 7:52
  that we have lost our way
• 7:53
  with Bitcoin culture?
• 7:57
  Temporarily.
• 7:58
  I think it's perfect.
• 8:00
  Like, this is the Trojan horse,
• 8:01
  in my opinion,
• 8:02
  and, like, it's a two-way street.
• 8:04
  Are the cypherpunks
• 8:05
  going to get fucked over
• 8:06
  by suit coiners,
• 8:07
  or are the cypherpunks
• 8:08
  going to fuck over suit coiners?
• 8:10
  And a lot of cypherpunks
• 8:11
  plowed into these pipes.
• 8:13
  They were piping.
• 8:13
  They really did.
• 8:14
  And it turns out
• 8:16
  when you can be a millionaire and be a cypherpunk you consider being a millionaire more than you can
• 8:21
  sacrifice sorry we're like not we're not angels over here i think the culture right now has like
• 8:27
  really been taken over uh by the worst people in the world libertarians and so like i think i think
• 8:34
  we're in a wall at the moment where like bruce fenton's in charge of the the culture for a little
• 8:38
  bit and then eventually we'll get back and maybe uh maybe somebody will rise up and do something
• 8:44
  interesting like hodl i i do have to agree because libertarians are the most incapable
• 8:48
  political group that exists because they just like to they just sit here and they're like of
• 8:52
  course it's gonna fuck up yeah there's no way this could work it's like well what's your
• 8:57
  fucking answer it's like don't do anything it's like well fucking this is where we're at asshole
• 9:02
  i mean it's interesting the libertarians had a dream for bitcoin and i feel like we've kind of
• 9:06
  achieved a lot of those dreams but not in the way that the libertarians thought that we would
• 9:10
  achieve them because like now we have like etfs and like the big banks have come in and banks are
• 9:15
  doing the thing that banks do really well which is you know holding things like banks have always
• 9:20
  been into custody that's what they were always about and for a brief period we had banks kind
• 9:25
  of like merging with the state uh for the last like two or three hundred years really merging
• 9:29
  but before like banks have no loyalties to the state what a bank does is it custodies right that's
• 9:34
  what it's always done that's what they're built for and they kind of lost their way and now with
• 9:38
  Bitcoin, the banks are back custody. And that was always what I thought would happen. But the
• 9:41
  libertarians are kind of looking at it and they're angry that the big banks have anything to do with
• 9:45
  this. But it's exactly what they were designed to do. Yeah, I think the libertarian wet dream of a
• 9:51
  showdown with the state is not going to come to fruition, at least in the way that many libertarian
• 9:56
  Bitcoiners were envisioning it would come to fruition. And the showdown with the state looks
• 10:01
  a lot more like getting politically active and, you know, just sort of working within the system,
• 10:07
  which is unpalatable to a lot of the unwashed libertarian and cap friends we have.
• 10:12
  To be fair, it's kind of unpalatable for me.
• 10:14
  That's interesting.
• 10:15
  Yeah.
• 10:16
  What interesting to me is that like you think about Bitcoin it been 16 years right And there an entire generation now that has grown up with Bitcoin in the conversation somewhere for their entire lives
• 10:32
  And at the same time,
• 10:33
  we have all these boomers
• 10:34
  who've been in Congress dying.
• 10:36
  Lindsey Graham being the most recent
• 10:38
  and probably Mitch McConnell going next.
• 10:41
  Definitely died naturally.
• 10:42
  He's been dead for three weeks.
• 10:43
  And then I don't know who I'm going to kill next,
• 10:45
  but someone's going.
• 10:47
  But no, there's, you know,
• 10:48
  So I think the boomers are dying and this new generation is coming up and they're and like even like not just there.
• 10:54
  It's not just people that have had Bitcoin in the conversation their entire lives.
• 10:56
  It's people that have had Bitcoin in the conversation for half their lives.
• 10:59
  You know, like you think about how significant that is, like half of half of America at this point exists with Bitcoin in the conversation for half their lives.
• 11:07
  And many of those people are going to start running for Congress.
• 11:09
  Many of those people are going to start, you know, becoming politically active.
• 11:12
  and I think the world for Bitcoin
• 11:15
  is going to change a lot because
• 11:16
  Bitcoin is just something that exists
• 11:19
  and it makes me worry a little bit about
• 11:21
  sort of the placement of shit coins
• 11:22
  because Ethereum also is something
• 11:25
  that has just existed for a very long
• 11:27
  time in the minds and the lives of these people
• 11:29
  in my opinion to
• 11:31
  not such a high degree
• 11:33
  of efficacy but it's just
• 11:35
  existed so I think as we
• 11:37
  enter kind of the new generation
• 11:39
  going into Congress and going
• 11:41
  into any of these
• 11:42
  sort of more powerful positions i think we're gonna see a lot of differences with the state
• 11:47
  not necessarily co-opting but the state using bitcoin and allowing us to use bitcoin in the
• 11:52
  way that it's meant to be used because it's just a thing that now just is so i agree with that um
• 11:58
  however i would say the expression of the bitcoin culture and the the core set of values and the
• 12:05
  ethos um being a little bit more ancap libertarian libertarians are law libertarians like they're
• 12:10
  like thoroughly feckless as a political organization.
• 12:15
  But little L, libertarian.
• 12:18
  And the expression of that through Bitcoin culture is important
• 12:22
  because the thing just existing is getting choked out to a certain extent.
• 12:26
  And you can break it down in a technical frame,
• 12:29
  an economic frame, and a social political frame.
• 12:31
  In the economic frame where you mentioned the ETFs and the DATs
• 12:35
  and things like that and BlackRock's in and this and that,
• 12:38
  you still have Jane Street.
• 12:39
  Jane Street is largely responsible for this crab walk that we've been in, where it'll break down, it'll break up, and it's largely stuck.
• 12:47
  For a very long time, the marketing department of Bitcoin has numbered go up, and it has these dramatic comebacks, and it's not dead yet.
• 12:57
  It was declared dead a million times, and it's ripping now.
• 13:00
  That might have been an effort to actually castrate that value proposition from a marketing standpoint.
• 13:06
  On the technical side, we have something I don't want to.
• 13:08
  I know you want to talk about BIP-110, but I don't really have any severe appetite to do that.
• 13:14
  I just know there's people here that have only come to hear us talk about BIP-110.
• 13:17
  I know.
• 13:18
  That's the sign that you're gay.
• 13:20
  I'm sorry.
• 13:22
  I love you.
• 13:23
  Not in that way.
• 13:24
  And then on the social political side, there is a clear push to put Bitcoin alongside Melania coin and to just choke it as much as possible.
• 13:34
  It's the same thing, really.
• 13:36
  Uh-huh.
• 13:37
  So I do think that the expression of Bitcoin culture
• 13:42
  coming back and restoring its, like,
• 13:44
  fuck you parallel system roots
• 13:46
  is important in combating the ways that it can die.
• 13:50
  I don't think it's a matter of time.
• 13:51
  A parallel system only exists
• 13:53
  insofar as it exists not in a normative system, right?
• 13:57
  Like, we can't, like, the gold bugs,
• 13:59
  those people that are really into gold,
• 14:01
  they're really weird.
• 14:03
  And it's a fucking gay culture.
• 14:04
  It's really not like not really gay, you know, but like, you know, just like, hey, I think about that with a Bitcoin.
• 14:12
  Like, you know, you think about like you're going to have like you're going to have like a meetup group about the dollar.
• 14:19
  Right. Like I was here for like the dollar.
• 14:21
  Who here really likes a dollar? Raise your hand.
• 14:23
  There were these guys, you know, they do that in Jackson Hole and elsewhere all the time.
• 14:28
  Like a Federal Reserve meeting.
• 14:30
  Who's here about the dollar? Who's excited about the dollar?
• 14:32
  It's really we're here to meet up.
• 14:34
  There were these guys that were like internet influencers.
• 14:37
  How do we influence dollar culture?
• 14:38
  Like Jared Lanier comes to mind.
• 14:40
  What dollar culture?
• 14:42
  And it's like, if you were trying to be an internet influencer,
• 14:45
  like let me tell you about the internet today,
• 14:47
  you'd just seem like the craziest person on earth.
• 14:48
  What do you think about Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meeting?
• 14:51
  They get absolutely ripping hammered and they talk about dollar.
• 14:56
  Yeah, they do.
• 14:57
  They love it.
• 14:57
  They really do.
• 14:58
  It's true.
• 14:59
  It looks like fun.
• 15:00
  I've never been.
• 15:00
  They eat peanut brittle.
• 15:01
  He's dead now.
• 15:02
  Right.
• 15:03
  Right.
• 15:03
  If you hold Bitcoin long enough, there's going to come a time when you need some dollars.
• 15:07
  It might be a tax bill, a business expense, life getting in the way,
• 15:10
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• 15:14
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• 15:15
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• 15:17
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• 15:20
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• 15:23
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• 15:26
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• 15:29
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• 15:31
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• 15:43
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• 15:47
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• 15:50
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• 15:55
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• 16:02
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• 16:08
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• 16:13
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• 16:18
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• 16:22
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• 16:37
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• 16:42
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• 16:47
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• 16:53
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• 16:58
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• 17:02
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• 17:07
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• 17:13
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• 17:19
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• 17:38
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• 17:49
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• 17:54
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• 17:58
  I want Eric's take on this though, because this is a lot of sort of state cope. And as the person
• 18:03
  who probably hates the state more than anyone on this stage, like how do you take that?
• 18:07
  I do deeply hate the state and like, fuck them. They're assholes. They're pieces of shit. They
• 18:12
  want to control you. They want to steal you. They're vampires.
• 18:14
  I love that. Love the state.
• 18:17
  All right, we'll get back to this.
• 18:20
  I think all of this is part of a narrative
• 18:22
  that Bitcoin has lost its story for a bit
• 18:24
  because it turns out that making a shitload of money
• 18:27
  is actually a meaningful thing in our current culture
• 18:30
  that is deprived of any meaningful way
• 18:33
  to actually execute your will, desire, and means
• 18:37
  to actually achieve the thing you want in the world
• 18:39
  because everything's so fucked
• 18:41
  because if you're not close to the spigot,
• 18:43
  you can't actually be rewarded.
• 18:44
  So bullshit.
• 18:45
  You could clean trash cans.
• 18:47
  Well,
• 18:47
  and not to hate on people.
• 18:50
  He's close to the spigot.
• 18:51
  It's just a different spigot.
• 18:52
  Passion in cleaning trash cans.
• 18:54
  But like,
• 18:55
  I'm deeply concerned about the dude who works at CVS.
• 18:57
  Who's like,
• 18:57
  I can't have kids because I make 20 bucks an hour.
• 19:00
  There's no escape.
• 19:01
  And I have no means to escape.
• 19:02
  Go work at Walgreens.
• 19:05
  Look,
• 19:05
  he's,
• 19:06
  he's struggling.
• 19:06
  Can I,
• 19:07
  did anyone here just raise his hand?
• 19:09
  If you'd never known Jonset before.
• 19:12
  Everybody.
• 19:12
  Everyone knows Jonset.
• 19:14
  That guy doesn't know Johnson.
• 19:15
  That guy.
• 19:16
  One truth dollar.
• 19:18
  I disagree completely.
• 19:20
  I honestly think that there has never been a better time for kids, young people, middle
• 19:25
  aged people to start businesses.
• 19:26
  There's never been a better time to, particularly with AI and such, there's never been a better
• 19:32
  time to sit there and ideate and think about what you can do to make money and just go out
• 19:36
  and do it.
• 19:37
  And what has been lost in America isn't being close to the spigot.
• 19:40
  It's a willingness to go to your neighbor and say, hey, I'm selling pop cans.
• 19:44
  and like nobody wants to do that anymore when i was when i was a kid you're you're eight years old
• 19:48
  nine years old you finally like your dad's like i'll let you mow the lawn you go do it you hit 10
• 19:53
  he buys you a lawn more you go to your neighbors and you start selling seven dollar you know mowed
• 19:57
  lawns name a kid that does that uh there is cash it's bullshit well also the big thing but we do
• 20:05
  have that in new york on the subways with like costco boxes of candy and showtime and stuff like
• 20:09
  that there's a bit of an anarcho-tyrannistic thing here where if you're a kid with a lemonade stand
• 20:12
  in a high, upper middle class
• 20:15
  suburban neighborhood, someone's going to come shut you down.
• 20:17
  Fuck the state. It happens.
• 20:19
  But if you're
• 20:20
  sort of a Mexican migrant
• 20:22
  selling oranges by the side of the road,
• 20:25
  then nobody's coming for you because it's politically unpopular
• 20:27
  to do so. But fine.
• 20:28
  Someone comes and stops you. Who cares?
• 20:31
  You're a kid. What are they going to do?
• 20:34
  The problem is that the parents have all
• 20:36
  of the trauma
• 20:37
  enumerated into themselves.
• 20:40
  Parents need to toughen up and tell their kids to go.
• 20:41
  They do.
• 20:41
  They need to stop.
• 20:42
  Do you understand why we didn't live stream at this point?
• 20:45
  All right.
• 20:46
  There was some intelligent thought behind this.
• 20:48
  Can we talk about racism?
• 20:50
  tree in my backyard when my kid's like seven years old she's going to climb it she's going to take the
• 20:54
  mangoes and she's going to sit on the corner of the street and sell them to people yeah that's
• 20:57
  going to be her first business but the but this isn't the point because like if you try and start
• 21:00
  a business as an adult you have to have permits you have to ask permission to do everything you
• 21:04
  want to do so what go get them hey like i want to defend june's other than so far without like i
• 21:08
  don't like that regime i don't like that regime where there's permits for everything right right
• 21:11
  you want to become a hair couture couture well this is about the pussification of america okay
• 21:17
  So like we've become huge pussies.
• 21:20
  And anytime that we think we're going to be punished, we're like, oh, God, the state's
• 21:23
  going to come and find me.
• 21:24
  Oh, no.
• 21:25
  And then we're going to helicopter parent around our kids and be like, no, you can't sell
• 21:30
  mangoes.
• 21:30
  The state could come and punish us.
• 21:32
  It would be terrible.
• 21:33
  Yeah.
• 21:34
  As Bitcoiners were like, I'm going to start a centralized exchange.
• 21:38
  And the state's coming and we're going to find you for everything you're worth.
• 21:41
  And they're like, we're going to find you for $10,000, Eric Forreys.
• 21:44
  and eric's like i made way more than that doing this weird exchange and you know something like
• 21:49
  that so like you're right like everyone is very scared of the state and you know coming for their
• 21:55
  fucking lemonade stand but the truth is like i i'm just saying i i disagree with the narrative
• 22:01
  that it's it's a bad time in america it's a great time like everything everything is great
• 22:05
  like there's a lot of really shitty things going on if you ignore those everything is great
• 22:11
  you know the bad shit it's good like it feels like there's a there's a great time just real
• 22:17
  quick i agree with both of you but as a uh small business owner with a liquor license i am terrified
• 22:23
  in terms of like the permits and the responsibility that comes with liquor licenses comes along
• 22:28
  everybody uber home it's fine well it's amazing that like you have a business that's accountable
• 22:34
  to like some like it's a quasi opaque thing that like maybe you get a liquor license maybe you don't
• 22:40
  I don't know.
• 22:41
  Like, whose dick did you suck this week?
• 22:43
  No.
• 22:44
  None that I know of.
• 22:45
  Did you suck a dick this week?
• 22:47
  Did you?
• 22:48
  No, none that I know of.
• 22:50
  But look, we have a carve-out for the business license, right?
• 22:52
  And I'm sorry, the BitLicense.
• 22:56
  So we're able to accept Bitcoin payments.
• 22:58
  Nobody has done that really at scale in New York City or in D.C.
• 23:02
  and all the future places that we want to go.
• 23:05
  We want to bury that so that people can see it.
• 23:07
  I really think it's an important point to cross.
• 23:11
  We have lived in innate, and I think that this is true of most of American history,
• 23:17
  but it's especially true for us.
• 23:19
  And I think it's true because in the last 50 years,
• 23:22
  there have been more people born than has ever existed on the face of the earth.
• 23:27
  We just have this population boom since the war.
• 23:30
  And what has happened is we have lived in a country where our rights are suspended.
• 23:34
  The recognized rights are suspended.
• 23:36
  for the majority of our lives.
• 23:38
  Half of the states don't allow you to buy a gun.
• 23:42
  We argue that the Constitution says
• 23:43
  Congress will make no law,
• 23:46
  no law, which seems very clear.
• 23:49
  And yet they-
• 23:51
  Shall not infringe.
• 23:52
  What's that?
• 23:52
  Yeah, shall not infringe, right?
• 23:54
  So we've got these infringements
• 23:57
  on all of our rights
• 23:58
  that have been happening our entire lives.
• 23:59
  And our entire lives,
• 24:00
  we've been watching people
• 24:01
  go to the courts and break them down.
• 24:02
  So that's a reality that exists in America,
• 24:05
  including like the license infrastructure
• 24:07
  that we've built all over.
• 24:08
  But the reality is that most of these things
• 24:10
  are not hard to get.
• 24:11
  They're barriers to entry
• 24:12
  and people can just go start businesses.
• 24:14
  Like you want to start a plant nursery?
• 24:16
  Go start a plant nursery.
• 24:18
  You want to start an adoption agency?
• 24:19
  We're talking about trash cans
• 24:20
  as opposed to derivative exchanges.
• 24:23
  Right?
• 24:23
  Like there's a spectrum here.
• 24:24
  I agree with you that like obviously anybody,
• 24:27
  like you should do what you can where you are
• 24:30
  with what you have available to you.
• 24:31
  Anybody, that's like blanket advice, right?
• 24:33
  but the you know the sort of state of emergency or like the constant ddos that we live under where
• 24:38
  we have to you know they're constantly infringing on our constitutional rights and we have to spend
• 24:43
  our whole life fighting back against the infringement it puts us in a state of suspended
• 24:47
  animation and then you know like holistically system-wide that's a that's an issue but you as
• 24:52
  the individual can still say fuck it and like this is a good challenge for me i'm gonna rise above and
• 24:56
  like who gives a fuck what nancy pelosi thinks i'm just gonna do it i mean i understand like people
• 25:00
  like danny don't understand the constitutional rights thing well he's british so like he's
• 25:05
  retarded functionally so like we love him but like he's kind of slow but i i laugh it is a distinct
• 25:11
  it is a distinctly american problem but australia like you can you can start like as a kid you can
• 25:17
  start a business as a you know an adult you can start a business and the only reason i care about
• 25:20
  this because like there's the the sort of palpable uh insouciance and the palpable sort of like uh
• 25:27
  What would you call it?
• 25:28
  Like malaise that's hitting this generation.
• 25:32
  Laziness.
• 25:33
  It's just fucking laziness.
• 25:34
  They truly believe that they're incapable and that there's nothing that they can do.
• 25:37
  They can.
• 25:38
  They can't.
• 25:39
  Any of you can.
• 25:40
  I want to point out, though, the problem is with the trash can analogy is that the state of that is really a fucking piece of shit to humans.
• 25:51
  And they're explicitly going after people that are doing innocuous shit and being like,
• 25:57
  hey we gonna violently hurt you and take away your right to like make money and provide for your family And most people and like granted we being fucking pussies I like accept that
• 26:07
  But like it's a terrifying thing to be like, hey, I'd like to start this business.
• 26:11
  But like, I don't know if the state's going to come down and like fucking steal my house because of this.
• 26:16
  It just feels fundamental.
• 26:17
  This is a narco tyranny.
• 26:18
  It feels fundamentally wrong because the state is powerless to help you.
• 26:21
  You pay into the system.
• 26:22
  The system does fucking nothing for you, but it's not powerless to harm you.
• 26:26
  so anytime the state wants to it can come down on you with the full force of the state apparatus
• 26:31
  for something that is as you know innocuous as a lemonade what is the value of your life are you
• 26:36
  going to sit there and like wallow or are you going to go out there and get arrested you have
• 26:42
  to be it's about courage yeah it's about courage but like i i hate to say it but like if you're
• 26:46
  sitting there wallowing depressed and going to a therapist and telling him you're going to kill
• 26:49
  yourself you might as well go get arrested go go start a business go do something interesting
• 26:53
  and like it's it's chances are you're going to be fine because the state doesn't generally focus on
• 26:59
  like these small little things you hear the occasional stories they the reason they're on
• 27:03
  the news the reason that they're so big is because they are the exceptions to the rule and for the
• 27:08
  most part like we live in a world where everyone is so myopic they are focused the resolution that
• 27:14
  they have on the news and the day-to-day is way too high so sometimes i think about that line in
• 27:19
  the big short where he goes look at you guys you pass yourself off as cynical people but like deep
• 27:23
  down you believe in the system right and that was i think a lot of us who were bitcoin maxis during
• 27:27
  the shitcoin ico bubble phase like you know i i believed that the sec was going to come in and
• 27:32
  crack down and like i knew that this behavior was illegal and i thought they were going to actually
• 27:35
  enforce it and then what did they do they enforced like fucking four things and then everybody else
• 27:41
  got away with murder i mean they just absolutely stole raped pillage and now that some of these
• 27:46
  people are jen mccaleb is like a fucking deca billionaire he's got his own space station that
• 27:51
  asshole has scammed more than anybody he fucking scammed with mount gox he scammed with ripple he
• 27:55
  scammed with stellar the space station is probably a scam everything he does is a fucking scam he's
• 28:00
  gotten away with it nobody ever brings this fucking name up wait jeff mcleod i want one more chance
• 28:05
  with jed and dan larimer like one more one more company give me the pipe in a world in a world
• 28:12
  where every single person is going out there and starting these small businesses and and like this
• 28:17
  the state cannot stop everybody so like in in some sense like the wallowing is a chance to ddos the
• 28:23
  state if you're really worried about them coming after you for lemonade stands if everybody starts
• 28:27
  a lemonade stand the state can stop two of them yeah and so like everyone should go out there and
• 28:32
  start lemonade stands and my only point my only point in saying this is like the wallowing the
• 28:37
  the nihilism that is affecting the current generation that's affecting like a lot of
• 28:42
  millennials even the younger millennials it's got to stop because all you have to do is walk outside
• 28:46
  Like, it's not just a touch grass thing.
• 28:48
  You have to start something.
• 28:49
  But, like, as a man, you're like, you got to start something.
• 28:52
  It's true.
• 28:53
  You do have a penis.
• 28:54
  So I just want to remind you of that.
• 28:55
  But, like, I just want to emphasize the fact that, like, this is Pavlovian conditioning 101.
• 29:00
  And that, like, we've beaten them from birth.
• 29:03
  Why were you conditioned?
• 29:04
  Why is it that you see that and I don't?
• 29:06
  Why am I completely immune to that?
• 29:08
  Well, I'm a pussy.
• 29:09
  Like, you're a very strange person.
• 29:10
  That explains your anarchism.
• 29:12
  He's got Ruby Ridge psychosis.
• 29:15
  I do.
• 29:15
  psychosis but eric finish that i want to know what you were going to say though no it's not like i i
• 29:19
  think it's really important to integrate the idea of the trauma that we've all accumulated around the
• 29:24
  idea of that like the state's going to show up and beat the living out of us any point in time
• 29:27
  that we walk outside of the balance telling like who did you learn that from that's like in black
• 29:33
  communities where they tell you the cops are going to shoot you i feel like that's the kind of thing
• 29:36
  that you've been hit with it is and then like i want to emphasize this point like the point is is
• 29:40
  to push past it and actually take the opportunity to risk yourself to make the opportunity to say,
• 29:46
  yeah, the state could come here and fucking kill me right now and fuck them. I fucking hate them.
• 29:50
  I hate everything they represent. And I'm going to sell my fucking mangoes because people want
• 29:54
  mangoes. Mangoes are good and they're delicious and they're healthy. So come buy my mangoes.
• 30:00
  I think it's fun to joke about like, you know, us all being retarded. And I mean, that's true.
• 30:04
  We are all retarded. But truly, some of the smartest like people I've met in my generation
• 30:09
  are here in Bitcoin at but but here not necessarily but uh but we all are our culture
• 30:17
  and our society overly prioritizes intelligence and it's way better to be uh you know sort of a
• 30:23
  dumb brave guy than it is to be a smart coward your retard maxing if you look right right well
• 30:29
  yeah basically if you look at like Nick Shirley right Nick Shirley is dumb as a box of rocks every
• 30:34
  time I've ever heard that guy talk he's so fucking stupid it's painful to listen to him talk
• 30:38
  but he's brave and he goes right up and knocks on people's doors.
• 30:42
  It's like,
• 30:42
  Hey,
• 30:43
  dude,
• 30:43
  are you stealing money from the state?
• 30:45
  You know,
• 30:45
  like that's what people need to do.
• 30:49
  Just knock on the,
• 30:50
  that's the same thing and start a lemonade stand.
• 30:51
  It's like knock on the door.
• 30:52
  You know,
• 30:53
  that's the theme of tonight.
• 30:55
  Start a lemonade stand.
• 30:56
  Start a lemonade stand.
• 30:58
  I don't,
• 30:59
  goes for sale.
• 31:00
  I don't even know where we go from this.
• 31:03
  Let's open it up for questions and we're going to take a,
• 31:06
  a brief intermission in case
• 31:08
  anybody wants to use the restroom or buy some libations but any questions based on what we were just talking about Or anything else Who the bravest soul here
• 31:20
  I think, you know, speaking to what everybody's been speaking about today
• 31:25
  so far with the lemonade stand, I guess the theme,
• 31:28
  it'll be the next generation.
• 31:29
  It'll be the kids because we're the weak men that good times created.
• 31:34
  I don't think your kids get there unless we do it.
• 31:37
  Like, this is the thing.
• 31:37
  We know that we fucked up, so we got a T-shirt.
• 31:39
  no bitcoin's been bitcoin for our generation has been this really interesting thing some people it's
• 31:45
  made a lot of money some people it's made a little some i know people who like exited when they could
• 31:49
  afford a house and they they bought a house and they're done but like they're they're proud and
• 31:54
  they have like they own a house outright and you know on a i don't know a bank of a lake in new
• 32:00
  york or something like that right there's a lot of people like that but like for our generation
• 32:03
  that's been a thing an opportunity that many of us have had right and i just think i just think that
• 32:09
  that like you gotta we now as as fathers uh i'm a new father uh but as fathers and mothers need to
• 32:16
  like start like inculcating this stuff into our kids because if if what we do is if what we do is
• 32:22
  we take uh we take the same sort of nihilism that has been bred in us in the in the recent past
• 32:29
  that's just going to get passed on it's it's just going to be like this more discussion like
• 32:34
  generational trauma and i think it's time i think like bitcoiners now like if you have a little
• 32:38
  extra dough, start something. Do something
• 32:40
  with it. Go, like, get a job.
• 32:42
  Get out of your mom's basement. Or stay
• 32:45
  there and run your business. It sounds like you
• 32:46
  and Eric are totally agreeing.
• 32:48
  You're basically both saying
• 32:50
  just ignore this thing. I'm being a therapist right now.
• 32:52
  It's not possible for anarchists to agree.
• 32:55
  Okay?
• 32:56
  When anarchists unite, they say, don't
• 32:58
  tell me what to do. I think that's a fantastic
• 33:00
  question. I have concerns on
• 33:02
  who's going to take up the mantle
• 33:04
  or the torch on
• 33:06
  core development.
• 33:07
  like the next generation
• 33:09
  on the economic side
• 33:11
  keeping the core values
• 33:14
  of Bitcoin very near
• 33:15
  and dear to their heart.
• 33:16
  Also the social political side.
• 33:18
  I think that that's fantastic.
• 33:19
  We might want to revisit
• 33:20
  that for the second session.
• 33:21
  Oh yeah.
• 33:22
  They're keeping
• 33:22
  Bitcoin apolitical
• 33:24
  in some sense.
• 33:25
  Who's the next Jenseth
• 33:26
  or Hondle?
• 33:27
  American Hondle.
• 33:29
  I was and now
• 33:30
  we need a new guy.
• 33:31
  He's investing in pipes.
• 33:33
  He's done.
• 33:37
  That's his pepe.
• 33:37
  the frog you have lost your edge when you're investing in pipes uh i had all right i had
• 33:42
  an idea everybody go buy alcohol or hamburgers the hamburger is really good so like if i had
• 33:48
  an idea for a business i'm not going to tell you what it was but i pitched hodl and hodl and i
• 33:53
  sat down it's like you're going to tell us i'm not i'm not i'm going to tell you what it was it
• 33:57
  was fixing sewing machines it was live tacos it's all tacos and we uh we built this whole thing as
• 34:04
  framework and we got we got to the we started getting like it worked that so that the story is
• 34:09
  it worked right it's true and we we started getting requests from all over the nation from
• 34:15
  people asking us to perform a service that i'm not going to mention fixing sewing machines yeah
• 34:20
  and uh but but then but then we like realized we didn't know how to like finish the job like we
• 34:29
  don't know how to grab them and ship them but like we got 90 of the way and i'm just saying like
• 34:35
  like the ai part has helped has helped just like kind of run experiments very quickly that lets you
• 34:42
  see whether your ideas work and whether your business ideas can like scale and they quickly
• 34:47
  get you to like failure points yeah jensen told me the idea and then i was like i'm gonna sprint
• 34:52
  on that and just let ai vibe code the entire thing and then ai vibe coded the entire thing and then
• 34:56
  a rear machine we put it yeah i got hacked by the russians and shit and then later somebody else got
• 35:01
  hacked by the north koreans it may or may not have been jonesa uh and then so you can get prompt
• 35:05
  injected really easy so be careful vibe coding is dangerous but we built this whole website whatever
• 35:10
  and we put it up on google and it started getting just shit loads of traffic for the people that
• 35:14
  you know have some machines that need fixing that's sorry i wasn't supposed to say the idea
• 35:18
  but but because i had vibe coded it it was there was like some serious gaps where we were like
• 35:25
  how is how are we going to ship sewing machines it's like really expensive to do that
• 35:31
  and then like the sewing machine repair doesn't even cover the shipping we need to like go back
• 35:36
  to the drawing so anyway we went back to the drawing board and we're still working on that
• 35:39
  idea it's like you know just a fun thing to do but the whole point is like if if you know i've
• 35:43
  made some angel investments and whatever and if you were going to pitch me today i don't want to
• 35:47
  see your fucking idea i want to see your website i want to see it done because the marginal cost to
• 35:51
  produce the idea it's zero the marginal cost to produce an idea is zero and i think i think it's
• 35:57
  kind of the point is like until until today the entire world has belonged to programmers
• 36:02
  and it's you're an idea guy you go and you say hey i have this idea and you sit down and the
• 36:08
  programmers look at you go like oh i don't fucking want to code that or they go like cool cool idea
• 36:14
  bro i'll take 40 and then they and then they take your equity and then they build the thing that you
• 36:21
  dreamed of And now with AI you can build things you can build first iterations and get to the point where like you actually have like taken your idea reified it and made it something that like people can use
• 36:34
  Maybe it's very bad, but you can test markets.
• 36:37
  So I'm just saying, I don't think there's,
• 36:39
  I don't think there's been a better time than now
• 36:41
  for us to like do exactly what I'm talking about.
• 36:44
  And this has kind of been my message
• 36:45
  for the last probably year.
• 36:47
  The corner of the workforce that you've wanted to fire
• 36:49
  for 30 years is now obsolete.
• 36:52
  It's really, really cool, is what John Sith is saying.
• 36:56
  Fire everybody.
• 36:57
  And I just have to add the point that I 100% agree.
• 37:00
  It actually is the best time to be alive.
• 37:03
  And because of all of the trauma that other people have accumulated
• 37:06
  to be incapable of doing anything,
• 37:10
  competition's pretty low right now.
• 37:11
  So you can be fucking retarded and make a sewing machine company work
• 37:15
  if you can figure out how to hire a logistics guy.
• 37:18
  All right.
• 37:19
  Any questions?
• 37:20
  look it's $65,000
• 37:22
  a coin and we're talking about painting
• 37:24
  the lines in a parking lot as salvation
• 37:26
  here. Any
• 37:28
  questions before we take a quick break?
• 37:31
  For the podcast, so everyone knows
• 37:32
  the question is would we consider ourselves
• 37:34
  part of Big Bitcoin? Yes.
• 37:36
  What is Big Bitcoin? I don't know. If this is Big
• 37:38
  Bitcoin, sell your Bitcoin.
• 37:41
  It's like big milk.
• 37:43
  I think I want to be
• 37:44
  in the crew. Yeah, you could be in.
• 37:47
  This is Big Bitcoin right here.
• 37:50
  I'm big.
• 37:55
  I'm so out after this conversation.
• 37:58
  You wouldn't reuse a Bitcoin address,
• 38:00
  so why does your phone broadcast the same identifier for life?
• 38:04
  Every SIM has a static ID and carriers, ad networks,
• 38:07
  and bad actors all use it to track you.
• 38:09
  The big carriers have been caught selling that data over and over again.
• 38:13
  CAPE is America's privacy-first mobile carrier.
• 38:15
  Their identifier rotation feature changes your ID every 24 hours,
• 38:19
  so you look like a different subscriber every single day.
• 38:22
  And SIM swaps are off the table.
• 38:24
  Your number can't move without a 24-word phrase
• 38:26
  that only you hold.
• 38:27
  There's also no name at signup,
• 38:29
  no social security number,
• 38:31
  and there's no profile to build on you.
• 38:33
  If you're a Bitcoiner in America,
• 38:34
  I honestly don't know why you'd use any other network.
• 38:37
  You can head over to cape.co forward slash WBD
• 38:40
  and use the code WBD for 33% off your first six months.
• 38:44
  That's C-A-P-E dot co forward slash WBD.
• 38:48
  If you're already self-custody Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets,
• 38:51
  complex setups, clumsy interfaces, and a seed phrase that can be lost, stolen, or forgotten.
• 38:56
  BitKey fixes that.
• 38:58
  BitKey is self-custody built for real life.
• 39:00
  It gives you an intuitive, easy-to-use wallet with no seed phrase to sweat over.
• 39:04
  And it has a strong recovery system and built-in inheritance for long-term peace of mind.
• 39:08
  And BitKey's just had a massive upgrade.
• 39:10
  The new device now has a screen.
• 39:12
  So before you approve something, you can check it on the BitKey itself.
• 39:15
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• 40:24
  We've spoken a load about Bitcoin winning.
• 40:26
  Yeah.
• 40:26
  And you don't think Bitcoin's won yet?
• 40:28
  No, I don't think Bitcoin's won yet.
• 40:29
  No, that's not true.
• 40:30
  I think Bitcoin won a long time ago.
• 40:32
  I just don't think Bitcoin has done anything super impressive.
• 40:37
  Everyone's always talking about the amazing things that Bitcoin's going to do.
• 40:41
  And I don't think that there's a checklist of things that I would say Bitcoin's done in particular.
• 40:46
  And I don't know that Bitcoin will ever do that stuff.
• 40:49
  I've always been kind of bearish on the idea.
• 40:52
  Can we be less vague?
• 40:53
  Didn't we already do a lot of stuff?
• 40:55
  Yeah, I mean, Bitcoin is sort of just this innocuous thing that exists in the universe.
• 41:00
  And I think it's great.
• 41:01
  I'm glad we have it.
• 41:03
  But people talked about Bitcoin ending wars.
• 41:07
  and Bitcoin just, you know,
• 41:10
  like there was a list of things
• 41:11
  that, you know,
• 41:12
  particularly libertarians
• 41:13
  would talk about Bitcoin doing.
• 41:14
  And it just is,
• 41:15
  it's not done any of that.
• 41:16
  And I don't know that it will
• 41:17
  do a lot of that,
• 41:19
  given that North Korea
• 41:20
  has been amassing a ton of Bitcoin
• 41:21
  and I don't think they're exactly
• 41:23
  for the end of wars.
• 41:24
  But like there's just been
• 41:26
  just not a ton of stuff
• 41:27
  that I think Bitcoin
• 41:28
  has like specifically done.
• 41:29
  I don't find,
• 41:30
  I find Bitcoin to be more of a
• 41:31
  sort of an innocuous,
• 41:33
  interesting thing to like
• 41:34
  participate in and look at
• 41:35
  than I do like,
• 41:36
  I think there's a lot of kind of worship of it.
• 41:39
  that I don't do.
• 41:41
  It's an idea, right?
• 41:42
  It's a candle in a very dark forest.
• 41:45
  So that's important.
• 41:47
  But how it manifests and how we push it forward,
• 41:49
  I think, I agree with you.
• 41:50
  I think that there's a lot of work to do
• 41:52
  to actually bring...
• 41:53
  I think that Bitcoin comes to do things
• 41:56
  that we didn't expect of it very, very slowly
• 41:58
  in a way that just sort of like integrates it
• 42:01
  into the world and just integrates it into society
• 42:04
  and into the things that we normally do
• 42:05
  in such a way that it just doesn't really...
• 42:07
  There's not ever a moment where we're like,
• 42:09
  boy, Bitcoin did this amazing thing and blasted off.
• 42:12
  It just kind of slowly integrates.
• 42:14
  And I think that's the most important thing
• 42:17
  that Bitcoin actually does.
• 42:19
  Because we have this idea,
• 42:21
  like Bitcoin liberates everybody,
• 42:23
  that suddenly the utopia presents itself,
• 42:25
  that everybody suddenly figures it out
• 42:27
  that they're getting fucked by fiat money.
• 42:30
  This never happens.
• 42:32
  I want to be super clear for everybody.
• 42:33
  The utopia that you want to sell to other people,
• 42:36
  yeah, it doesn't exist.
• 42:38
  and that's okay like that that's important that it doesn't exist because the real truth of what
• 42:44
  bitcoin is is that it finally gives you a fair opportunity that like if you want to exit the
• 42:49
  system you can that's all but like you got to make the fucking break you got to run for the fences and
• 42:57
  see if you can get in the hole or get fucking shot i don't actually give a shit whether or not you do
• 43:03
  that i'll tell you it's possible i'll show you where the hole is and how you can do it but if
• 43:07
  you want to actually take the opportunity to make a risk to choose bitcoin to see what we all see
• 43:14
  there is an opportunity there but like i can't force that onto you but is that having the
• 43:19
  opportunity alone is that not winning yeah for for sure it's witty and like like you actually
• 43:25
  recognize that like this whole thing is fucked up it's a complete facade and that like if you
• 43:30
  choose to do like we're freaking freaks like we you and i probably we probably would be dead from
• 43:37
  drug addiction at this point like i you and i who are you talking danny mean huddle like
• 43:46
  you're like a level person like i'm dead wait did you say that's a level more level on cocaine
• 43:52
  i mean like as he seems like he's a good father yeah yeah but so so what do you want to see then
• 44:00
  like if we've not already won what do you need to see what more do you need yeah well i know i think
• 44:06
  like bitcoin's won in the sense that like i think i think the coins are dead i think they were always
• 44:10
  dead i think they've been dead for years yeah we want that for people to like figure that out
• 44:14
  i think of of the things that like bitcoin is going to do i think like bitcoin is going to emerge
• 44:20
  the only thing that does this stuff um whatever it is and there's there's all sorts of tech on
• 44:25
  bitcoin that allows us to extend bitcoin into other you know other other sorts of uh we will
• 44:31
  give bitcoin other properties like you know paul starts has talked a lot about doing side chains
• 44:35
  and stuff like that he's obsessed with uh you know one of our adro yeah that's right that's
• 44:41
  what's coming our jobs um but he's obsessed with like prediction markets and stuff like that so
• 44:45
  like ethereum is has some of the prediction market stuff you know there but like there's no reason
• 44:49
  that can't be on bitcoin and that's always been kind of my thesis is that everything that like we
• 44:53
  really do want that actually exists that that we can do with blockchain can be done on bitcoin if
• 44:59
  it actually matters and uh and will be done on bitcoin at some point if it actually matters and
• 45:04
  And a lot of the shit coins, as we tend to refer to them, are running these sort of reckless
• 45:11
  experiments where they're seeing kind of how far they can push a lot of this stuff.
• 45:14
  And that's fine.
• 45:15
  Let them do that.
• 45:15
  But that stuff can be on Bitcoin.
• 45:17
  Can I just say, listen, I do think that you're being a little bit too demure and self-effacing
• 45:24
  because you're more OG than I am.
• 45:26
  But I remember a time when the subreddit had 50,000 people on it.
• 45:30
  and if Bitcoin was mentioned on a libertarian podcast,
• 45:33
  it was the top story on the subreddit.
• 45:36
  And people were like, oh my God, dude.
• 45:38
  That's true.
• 45:38
  Can you believe we're on an episode of NCIS?
• 45:41
  I've talked about this before.
• 45:42
  They mentioned it in a plot point for three seconds.
• 45:45
  At every stage of Bitcoin,
• 45:46
  everyone that gets here thinks that they're late.
• 45:48
  Every single person.
• 45:50
  I felt that way.
• 45:51
  I was like, all the fun's already been had.
• 45:53
  I'm so late.
• 45:56
  you know and uh and little did i know that like you know 18 cent bitcoin and 30 cent bitcoin was
• 46:02
  like gonna be look very very cheap 10 15 years later right and that's that's the thing is like
• 46:08
  everyone's always feeling like they're late and there was a time when like little things like
• 46:12
  bitcoin magazine came out they got on a couple of barnes and noble bookshelves
• 46:16
  i remember driving to barnes and noble to look at issue one and just be like
• 46:19
  We fucking did it.
• 46:21
  It's over.
• 46:23
  It's a wrap.
• 46:25
  It's a wrap.
• 46:25
  We did it.
• 46:26
  Bitcoin's done.
• 46:27
  Look at that.
• 46:28
  You were right.
• 46:29
  Federal Reserve.
• 46:30
  Look at that.
• 46:31
  You don't even have a magazine.
• 46:33
  Listen, going from...
• 46:35
  Look at this shitty four-page magazine.
• 46:37
  Where's your magazine, ECB?
• 46:38
  Barnes & Noble.
• 46:40
  Okay, listen.
• 46:42
  Going from 30 cents to is an extremely big deal That never happens Like Bitcoin know weirdo thing uh with for a bunch of weirdos in weirdo meetups like this one no offense uh and
• 46:59
  and then it grew to be you know globally prominent on wall street you're all my people I want to be
• 47:05
  very clear about that and now global governments have to get invested in bitcoin and like it's a
• 47:09
  reality that people now have to deal with so I don't know I I think it's just we have one massive
• 47:14
  But part of the reason Bitcoin's struggling right now
• 47:16
  is because we chewed through 15 years of narratives.
• 47:18
  It's struggling?
• 47:19
  Yeah.
• 47:20
  Yes.
• 47:20
  No.
• 47:21
  Again, I don't understand that.
• 47:23
  It's not $126,000, but it is $64,000.
• 47:29
  Right.
• 47:29
  $64,000, I think even if there's shit kicked out of it
• 47:32
  repeatedly over the narrative constantly.
• 47:34
  But Bitcoin has always done this.
• 47:36
  It's a highly volatile asset.
• 47:38
  It's always gone way up and then gone way down.
• 47:40
  And I remember when NPR mentioned it.
• 47:42
  and it went to $30.
• 47:45
  And I was like, oh, my God.
• 47:47
  Like, that's it, $30.
• 47:48
  And then Wikipedia started accepting,
• 47:51
  or not Wikipedia, what's the day?
• 47:54
  WikiLeaks.
• 47:55
  WikiLeaks started accepting it.
• 47:57
  And then I just remember it started coming down
• 48:00
  and, like, back down to $1.
• 48:03
  Like, that's a, like, that's a, we dropped 50%.
• 48:08
  50%.
• 48:10
  Yeah.
• 48:10
  Okay.
• 48:10
  I was here when Bitcoin went to $30 and dropped to $8.
• 48:15
  Like, we're in a different world.
• 48:18
  This doesn't look like getting beat up to me.
• 48:20
  Like, I've watched this narrative play out now, I don't know, 18 times?
• 48:27
  No, I completely agree.
• 48:29
  Like, we've already fucking won.
• 48:30
  We've won really, really hard.
• 48:32
  The fact of that, the fact the price is $65,000 right now,
• 48:36
  despite all of the bullshit that's happened goes to show how much we've actually won
• 48:42
  the problem is right now there isn't a cohesive narrative about like where we're going i don't
• 48:47
  think there i don't think there needs to be and the reason i say is because like bitcoin works
• 48:51
  bitcoin works it does what it's supposed to do it transmits value from here to there that's all
• 48:58
  it's supposed to do and in its you know sort of base form right and it works and it's worked now
• 49:04
  for 15, 16 years.
• 49:07
  Well, I want to take the other side
• 49:08
  of what Eric said and say that
• 49:09
  there is a cohesive narrative
• 49:10
  about where we're going.
• 49:11
  It's just that none of us like it.
• 49:14
  Why is it?
• 49:14
  The narrative is that we're marching
• 49:17
  into a period of, you know,
• 49:18
  co-option by the corporate interest
• 49:21
  of the state.
• 49:22
  And to be fair,
• 49:24
  fucking Mark Goodwin and Whitney Webb,
• 49:26
  they're like,
• 49:27
  this is where it's going.
• 49:29
  Earlier you talked about
• 49:31
  being close to the spigot, right?
• 49:32
  And this is called Cantillon Effect.
• 49:34
  yeah okay so you have cantaloupe effect bitcoin is a reverse cantaloupe effect those who are
• 49:39
  nearest the spigot are the last people to get it and the first people that were here were hookers
• 49:43
  yes and i remember i remember when i was like i was called by i think it was forbes after
• 49:48
  one of the uh one of one of the nights at like a bitcoin magazine and they were like uh sir uh there
• 49:54
  was a there was a bitcoin event that was done at a strip club uh what do you think about like the
• 49:59
  women of bitcoin and how they feel about that i was like the women of bitcoin were on the polls
• 50:02
  But like, sir, we know that you suck some dick at a Bitcoin party.
• 50:07
  The first fucking users of Bitcoin were the women on the polls.
• 50:10
  You respectable women didn't get here until 2015, 2016.
• 50:13
  And you're fucking late.
• 50:15
  The hookers were here long before you.
• 50:17
  The strippers have been using it for 10 years.
• 50:19
  In 2016, they've been using it for 10 years.
• 50:21
  And I want to be clear, if you're looking for any alpha,
• 50:26
  hookers and strippers are the alpha.
• 50:28
  Okay? So just let you know.
• 50:30
  Think about all the Wall Street things that are done at Strip Club.
• 50:34
  Many, many more.
• 50:35
  Multiples more.
• 50:36
  Sure.
• 50:37
  That's true.
• 50:37
  It never bothered me in any sense that any of the Bitcoin stuff was doing in Strip Club.
• 50:43
  First of all, I don't care what women think.
• 50:45
  But like, in general, ask my wife.
• 50:50
  No, but like, again, this is why we're not live streaming this one.
• 50:54
  I just want to point that out again, because that was a real win for PubKey.
• 50:58
  Yeah.
• 51:00
  No, the truth is that the first women here in Bitcoin were the strippers and the hookers.
• 51:07
  Like, they were drug addicts.
• 51:09
  I remember I went out on a, I went to England many years ago and was taken out by one of the guys who was like selling Bitcoin in the streets.
• 51:17
  And he takes me out.
• 51:18
  It takes us like 40 minutes by train to get where he needs to go.
• 51:21
  And then he sits in a car.
• 51:22
  And this guy who like is buying it is clearly an addict, right?
• 51:25
  He's like clearly going to shoot this shit up his arm.
• 51:27
  and they sit there for like 20 minutes as the block confirms he trades him the bitcoin he gives
• 51:32
  him the cash we're just sitting there and we're sitting in the attic we're sitting in we're sitting
• 51:37
  in the car with an addict who's sitting there just kind of like itching to like get his like i don't
• 51:41
  know what he was putting his arm but something you know he's gonna go get something with his bitcoin
• 51:45
  he's like i'm just sitting there and he's called fentanyl and stop acting like it's a problem okay
• 51:50
  but but i don't know i mean at this time he's buying like you know like three bitcoin for like
• 51:55
  $35, right?
• 51:57
  And years later you look at that and you like that motherfucker I wonder if he has any left just kind of left over And if sitting on like hundreds of thousands of dollars but expensive heroin ever yeah these are the first people that came to bitcoin bitcoin really did have a reverse cantaloupe effect where the people
• 52:12
  farthest from the spigot it's sort of like a one-time cantaloupe effect right like it only
• 52:16
  happened once it'll never happen again right and the people that come now like the people that are
• 52:20
  closest to the spigot they can buy a ton of it but they're doing it at 60 000 or 120 000 a coin
• 52:25
  yeah which is you know like if the rockefeller uh the rockefeller foundation had figured this out
• 52:31
  at like 50 bucks a coin we'd be in a very different world but no one did that's why
• 52:35
  michael saylor was kind of a big deal when he first started is because my we had prophesied
• 52:39
  michael saylor like he was a lease on all guy even for us where we were like one day what a man will
• 52:45
  buy a billion dollars of bitcoin you know and then like my aunt at thanksgiving be like you're
• 52:49
  fucking delusional it's fucking retarded i remember like bitcoin's worth 200 i had a good friend he
• 52:54
  He was working mutual funds at Goldman Sachs.
• 52:57
  And I told him, I was like, you know, Goldman should really like, you know, buy some Bitcoin.
• 53:01
  And he looked at me and he laughed.
• 53:02
  He goes, market caps $5 million.
• 53:05
  You're like, that's why.
• 53:06
  So cheap.
• 53:08
  That's when you get in.
• 53:09
  In retrospect, I'm looking at that.
• 53:11
  I'm like, and we talked about this earlier.
• 53:13
  Like you didn't get into Bitcoin early because you were smart.
• 53:15
  You got in because you were a retard.
• 53:17
  You got in because like you looked at it and you really thought that like this small thing could become a big thing.
• 53:22
  and like you think that you had vision but you didn't it's just that you got on the lucky train
• 53:27
  and that's just the reality of it like many people were here accidentally and they have you know
• 53:32
  there's a lot of people have a lot of money now because they were drug addicts and they have
• 53:36
  leftover coins and like i really want to hear that like like i i'm from the world like like
• 53:46
  look without bitcoin like i'm fucking dead like i'm dead long fucking ago this was supposed to be
• 53:51
  the positive panel i'm getting there don't worry that's like look like life for me fucking sucked
• 53:59
  and i hated it and i hated everything about it and i was ready to kill myself thank you and bitcoin
• 54:04
  liberated me from that i'm very happy about that but like wait till i tell you about jesus later
• 54:10
  i've heard good things about that guy you can't inject him but you can put him in your heart my
• 54:19
  whole point is that the amount of deep-seated hatred that people can't speak to about this
• 54:25
  system of abuse extraction and exploitation that bitcoin actually answers in the most meaningful
• 54:32
  and deeply philosophical aspect is very very very important very thank you i really appreciate that
• 54:44
  So Gresham's Law.
• 54:46
  No, no, wait a second.
• 54:46
  Because when Huddled was saying, like,
• 54:48
  maybe we've used all the narratives,
• 54:50
  like, this is the stuff that people don't understand
• 54:52
  about Bitcoin anymore.
• 54:53
  Yeah, and the narrative is, fuck you.
• 54:55
  I can be a heroin addict.
• 54:56
  I can be a crack addict.
• 54:58
  I can be a fentanyl addict.
• 54:59
  You thought it wasn't going to be positive.
• 55:02
  And my thing is that, like, I hate,
• 55:05
  I deeply hate everything about this fucking system
• 55:09
  of control, power, and autonomy.
• 55:11
  that, frankly, AI is about to absolutely mindfuck to everyone.
• 55:16
  You can be a heroin addict.
• 55:17
  You can be a heroin addict.
• 55:19
  Join us.
• 55:20
  I want everybody to look under your chairs.
• 55:23
  We have a gift.
• 55:24
  We have a gift for everyone.
• 55:28
  Spoons at the bar.
• 55:32
  Eric, I want you to finish that thought.
• 55:33
  What are you saying about AI there?
• 55:34
  My point is to go into addiction.
• 55:36
  um no it's that the world is changing in a rapid and extreme pace and the place that you thought
• 55:44
  that you had by being a yale scholar and getting honors and whatever else bullshit it's just that
• 55:50
  it's bullshit this isn't going to matter in 20 years because the way that ai is completely
• 55:55
  fucked everything but also that in ai fucking everything bitcoin provides a path towards
• 56:01
  like if you just have fucking hustle
• 56:04
  like you can get it like their fucking
• 56:06
  sewing machine store like
• 56:08
  fucking sewing machine
• 56:09
  it's cute
• 56:11
  like I see you guys branding that really
• 56:14
  well together as a couple
• 56:16
  gaily
• 56:17
  but like ultimately
• 56:20
  like it's a great path and that's
• 56:22
  a product of what AI can do
• 56:24
  is that you can create a business
• 56:26
  where love
• 56:28
  prevails all how am I meant to take
• 56:30
  this seriously i just want to point out that still light out it's it's not dusk yet um i graduated
• 56:36
  from ivy league there's one thing did you really i don't know probably so uh with gresson's law
• 56:44
  i'm not sure i agree with that with the uh cantillion uh effect but it is a cogent point
• 56:50
  um i do think that bitcoiners the broader bitcoin community is one of the only ones i can think of
• 56:56
  that's immune to Brandolini's law.
• 56:59
  Just-
• 57:00
  What the fuck is that?
• 57:01
  Brandolini's law is the ability to argue against bullshit.
• 57:05
  Like the amount of energy it takes-
• 57:07
  Bitcoiners are like watching for like Jesus
• 57:10
  coming out of the clouds every week.
• 57:12
  And they like oh my God Michael Saylor Oh I love you Oh Elon Elon here Oh my Jesus Look at the idiots Look at the idiots that did Noah Doe Noah Doe in New York New York State
• 57:24
  You have people.
• 57:25
  We have somebody in the mug club that wrote an amicus brief.
• 57:29
  It's a swarm of retarded energy that is going to take down these things that are even a perceived fictional threat to Bitcoin.
• 57:38
  and they come out of the woodwork and they just swarm it with absolute bullshit.
• 57:42
  I do think that that not bullshit.
• 57:44
  Like we're always right.
• 57:45
  The corners fall for retardation all the time.
• 57:47
  No, the retard energy I'm saying is important.
• 57:49
  Oh, you like the retard energy.
• 57:50
  Yes, very much.
• 57:51
  I consider myself an expert in that category.
• 57:55
  This is basically just been a panel on retard maxing.
• 57:58
  Pretty much.
• 57:59
  Hell yeah.
• 57:59
  Do heroin.
• 58:01
  Start a garbage can business.
• 58:02
  You could be a heroin addict.
• 58:04
  Maybe if you work hard enough.
• 58:06
  I'm going to refuse myself and say I don't like heroin.
• 58:08
  You shouldn't do it.
• 58:09
  Please don't.
• 58:10
  Everyone likes heroin.
• 58:11
  That's just a lie.
• 58:12
  I just got to put that out there for y'all.
• 58:13
  Don't do heroin because you will like it.
• 58:15
  Yeah, you only don't like it if you've not tried it.
• 58:16
  I mean, it's amazing.
• 58:18
  Don't do it.
• 58:18
  It's pretty great.
• 58:21
  Will you give us some positivity here, please?
• 58:23
  He's not getting on the plane tomorrow.
• 58:25
  What?
• 58:25
  Will you give us some positivity here, please?
• 58:28
  The positivity is like, we actually have Bitcoin.
• 58:30
  I'm pretty positive.
• 58:31
  It's been highly successful.
• 58:32
  It's going to continue to be highly successful.
• 58:34
  And the simple fact is you live in a world where everyone else is a wolf to wolf.
• 58:39
  Like this has been known for 3000 years.
• 58:41
  The classic quote of homin is homin I loop I, which means wolf is man is wolf to man.
• 58:48
  Yeah, I fucking butchered that.
• 58:51
  Like it's a classic existence that we all have.
• 58:54
  Bitcoin actually gets you to a place where like you can play on a level playing field.
• 58:59
  People can't fuck you over more so than any other place that they can.
• 59:04
  at least you have a fair and level playing field
• 59:08
  by which you can choose to play the game.
• 59:11
  Nietzsche had things to say about that flattening,
• 59:13
  and the choice is whether or not,
• 59:15
  do you want to collapse into being a pathetic fucking nothing,
• 59:19
  or do you want to choose to will to power
• 59:21
  and actually choose to say,
• 59:22
  I fucking matter, my business matters,
• 59:24
  I have a vision for the future
• 59:26
  that my government and that society has not provided for me,
• 59:30
  so I'm going to make the decision
• 59:32
  to choose what the next thousand years will look like
• 59:36
  as opposed to collapsing into what the patheticness
• 59:38
  of what the next 50 years will look like.
• 59:41
  Nietzsche used to talk a lot about cleaning trash cans too.
• 59:44
  Sure did.
• 59:45
  Across a lot of different parts of his career.
• 59:48
  At risk of taking a serious note here.
• 59:50
  I do like to inject some positivity.
• 59:53
  I think the whole thing has been positive and fun.
• 59:54
  But on the positive note,
• 59:57
  I think the killer app of Bitcoin is prosperity.
• 1:00:00
  I think that's what people want.
• 1:00:01
  you know on the way here our cab driver was telling us how he um you mean your helicopter
• 1:00:07
  driver well he well he was we took a helicopter and then uh we really we really should be acting
• 1:00:13
  like it's a bear market i really thought this was gonna be a panel of one tonight yeah jensen thought
• 1:00:18
  we were gonna die um i kind of thought it too i was like anytime you get in a helicopter you're
• 1:00:24
  like oh just wait for the conclusion but anyway you know the guy was telling us he was from egypt
• 1:00:27
  don't know how the fuck you're gonna edit this he was he was he was telling us that he was from
• 1:00:32
  egypt our uber driver slash private helicopter driver he was from egypt and he his family moved
• 1:00:38
  here in 2013 and we looked up the exchange rate because we were talking about bitcoin with him
• 1:00:41
  and uh the you know uh egyptian pound had lost 87 of its value since his family moved here in 2013
• 1:00:49
  um and you know he was basically saying like why why would i do bitcoin are people still doing
• 1:00:55
  bitcoin we were like yeah of course people are still doing and here's why you would do it you
• 1:00:58
  would do it if you wanted to you know send remittances back to your family you would do it
• 1:01:02
  if you wanted to you know sort of um you know put your savings into something that you're making as
• 1:01:08
  an uber driver or you would do it because you know the the country that you come from is you know
• 1:01:13
  via corruption and you know the system that's set up there like your your money is being inflated
• 1:01:19
  away and that's what is your money is if not pieces of your life especially when you're selling
• 1:01:24
  your labor for cash and you don't have assets if you're asset rich like to me it doesn't matter
• 1:01:30
  like when michael saylor gains or loses several billion dollars who gives a fuck but when rich
• 1:01:34
  when yeah meaning just rich right when some people are rich in love jensen that's um
• 1:01:42
  when when you're selling your labor when you're selling your labor into the marketplace
• 1:01:49
  and your time is being devalued away from you.
• 1:01:53
  That is like a micro theft of your life.
• 1:01:56
  It's like a micro murder, right?
• 1:01:57
  And so it's like, for me,
• 1:01:59
  the thing that is always interesting and exciting
• 1:02:02
  is regular people seeking prosperity
• 1:02:06
  and using Bitcoin to gain prosperity.
• 1:02:08
  And it doesn't really matter to me
• 1:02:10
  how people feel about BIP 110 or Michael Saylor.
• 1:02:14
  You don't care about BIP 110?
• 1:02:15
  I don't give a fuck about BIP 110.
• 1:02:17
  Oh my God.
• 1:02:17
  Not at all.
• 1:02:18
  It does not matter to me.
• 1:02:20
  Don't care.
• 1:02:21
  I'm actually impressed that you're still speaking to taxi drivers about Bitcoin.
• 1:02:25
  Always.
• 1:02:26
  That's like the best heuristic that you have.
• 1:02:29
  genuinely like exhaustive having those conversations when i first came into big one
• 1:02:34
  helicopter pilot we're moving we're moving up in the world but like that's the point man like you
• 1:02:38
  should be fucking exhausted because like you know the answer and they should fucking know it too and
• 1:02:43
  they don't and it's fucking nobody's nobody's coming to save you i think is the point you
• 1:02:47
  literally nobody is coming to save the usa is not coming to save the individual but the usa is its
• 1:02:53
  own autonomous like blob effectively but nobody's coming to save you and when you talk to another
• 1:02:58
  person i actually love that uh interaction with a uh a cab driver or a helicopter pilot that's
• 1:03:05
  actually what happens here definitely you know a casual bar chat and when you connect with somebody
• 1:03:10
  in an environment where you can actually communicate that nobody's coming to save you
• 1:03:15
  but like this is where this is where i got really tired like when i first came into bitcoin i was
• 1:03:19
  talking to anyone i could possibly get their ear i was talking to them about bitcoin and over time
• 1:03:24
  like i just get exhausted those conversations like at some point like i do the podcast anyone
• 1:03:28
  who wants to hear about Bitcoin can come here and hear
• 1:03:30
  about it. But I feel like
• 1:03:32
  one of the biggest losses we had
• 1:03:34
  over the last few years is we haven't really had
• 1:03:36
  new people who are excited and fired up and want
• 1:03:38
  to talk to everyone about Bitcoin.
• 1:03:40
  That's not true, though. There's new people.
• 1:03:41
  Every single pump, we get
• 1:03:44
  entrance. Every single one.
• 1:03:45
  Who here came into Bitcoin
• 1:03:48
  after 2022?
• 1:03:51
  So we've got
• 1:03:52
  like three people.
• 1:03:52
  Okay.
• 1:03:54
  He's underselling it.
• 1:03:56
  It was like six.
• 1:03:57
  Seven.
• 1:03:58
  No, I don't care.
• 1:03:59
  The problem is we haven't fucking ended the state at this point in time.
• 1:04:02
  And the state is the thing that fucking hates everyone.
• 1:04:05
  That's why they steal from us.
• 1:04:06
  That's why they take money from us.
• 1:04:08
  If they were a functional thing that didn't give,
• 1:04:10
  that actually gave a fucking shit about any of us,
• 1:04:13
  they wouldn't steal money from us.
• 1:04:14
  They'd actually give you money.
• 1:04:15
  They fucking hate you.
• 1:04:16
  The problem, the problem.
• 1:04:17
  They hate you unilaterally, unconditionally.
• 1:04:19
  And the fact that you are a fucking parasite.
• 1:04:22
  And I want to emphasize this point because
• 1:04:24
  the state has never made anything at any point in time
• 1:04:28
  for anyone for any purpose. It hates you. It wants to steal from you. It's parasitic and it steals.
• 1:04:36
  Fuck them. Fuck everything that they represent. Fuck everything that they have ever tried to
• 1:04:41
  steal from you. We are a free, sovereign people that our constitution from its declaration of
• 1:04:49
  independence, each and every single point that is emphasized there is about the fact that we are
• 1:04:54
  free. We do not account to them. They have no right over us, and they have stole everything from
• 1:05:02
  us. We could make this the freest, the most liberated, the most prosperous country that has
• 1:05:10
  ever existed for all of humanity, and they do everything to step on our neck from that.
• 1:05:16
  Trump, Trump, Trump.
• 1:05:17
  Fuck Trump. Fuck everything that he represents. Fuck everything that
• 1:05:21
  every one of the politicians represents this is about us as a free people first and foremost and
• 1:05:28
  that we have a right to choose for ourselves what our lives represent i brought my child here
• 1:05:36
  because i yeah me too um because i want him to know and understand what i represent as values
• 1:05:45
  in this world. And one of the things that's the most valuable for me is that as Americans,
• 1:05:50
  we have a right to decide for ourselves what our lives look like. And our country has gone
• 1:05:57
  so deep and so thoroughly into each of our own rights, none of us know what that looks like
• 1:06:02
  anymore. What would it mean if we really had community? What would it mean if we were no
• 1:06:08
  longer robbed blindly by our own governments. What would it mean if we actually chose to make
• 1:06:16
  a community? What was it about? It wasn't about right or left anymore, but it was about whether
• 1:06:20
  or not we chose to give one another the right to decide what their lives look like.
• 1:06:27
  That's why I'm a fucking Bitcoiner is because I want everyone, whether or not I agree with them
• 1:06:33
  or not to have a right to choose for themselves
• 1:06:36
  what their lives look like.
• 1:06:38
  And that's why I'll keep being a Bitcoiner
• 1:06:40
  despite all the bullshit that's going around about Bit110.
• 1:06:45
  And if you want to choose that for yourself, okay.
• 1:06:48
  I don't get it, but go ahead.
• 1:06:51
  And that's what I love about Bitcoin
• 1:06:53
  is that we have made a choice for one another
• 1:06:56
  to actually have a subjective choice for each other
• 1:06:59
  about what the future is that we want,
• 1:07:01
  whether or not you want a bullshit chain
• 1:07:03
  that somehow tries to censor
• 1:07:06
  whether or not dick butts are on it,
• 1:07:08
  or if you get that.
• 1:07:10
  I think most people don't give a fuck,
• 1:07:12
  but you do you.
• 1:07:14
  Listen, if you leave here
• 1:07:16
  and don't cut down a flock camera
• 1:07:19
  after hearing that,
• 1:07:20
  you're a status bitch.
• 1:07:22
  Yeah, that gets the applause.
• 1:07:24
  All right.
• 1:07:27
  I ready to run through a wall right now So yeah we got one I think American Bitcoiners are the best chance that we have at saving the world for individuals
• 1:07:36
  We got one pro BIP 110 person here.
• 1:07:39
  And then HODL and I are kind of like, don't give a shit.
• 1:07:42
  I'm fan sitting.
• 1:07:44
  You'll find my body upstairs after I've been on.
• 1:07:49
  Does anybody have any questions?
• 1:07:54
  Please.
• 1:07:55
  All right, we'll keep going.
• 1:07:56
  Yeah, all right, go ahead.
• 1:07:57
  Here, take this, please.
• 1:08:00
  Cheers.
• 1:08:00
  All right, so you guys were all lucky enough to find Bitcoin
• 1:08:03
  when you were probably, what, in your 20s?
• 1:08:05
  I was fucking lucky.
• 1:08:06
  Like, oh, motherfucker.
• 1:08:08
  Like, I'm going to tell you about my life,
• 1:08:09
  and then you tell me I'm lucky.
• 1:08:11
  You're all dads now, right?
• 1:08:13
  Like, you got families.
• 1:08:14
  Bitcoin helped that.
• 1:08:15
  But, I mean, I think one thing we feel in the Bitcoin community
• 1:08:18
  is that, like, we need new blood, right?
• 1:08:20
  Like, what do you say to the 20 to 25-year-old
• 1:08:23
  who can put $100, $200, $300
• 1:08:25
  in a Bitcoin a month at most,
• 1:08:27
  is that going to change their life? And is that
• 1:08:29
  useful? Yeah, look, what
• 1:08:31
  are you going to say when it's at $250,000?
• 1:08:33
  Like, oops, I was wrong. Have you
• 1:08:35
  met a 25-year-old right now?
• 1:08:37
  They went through COVID in high school and college.
• 1:08:39
  We're making the next one.
• 1:08:41
  We can't deal with this current one.
• 1:08:43
  It's problematic. It's not easy
• 1:08:44
  to talk to. I'm kidding.
• 1:08:47
  At every turn, every
• 1:08:48
  revolutionary turn in society,
• 1:08:50
  there's been opportunity.
• 1:08:51
  and if you watch it's a wonderful life they're pitching george on plastics if you look at the
• 1:08:59
  the x generation x in the 90s they were all getting rich by investing in you know www websites
• 1:09:07
  right every single generation has had these opportunities when i was at college google came out
• 1:09:12
  and uh and when i was young i didn't have any money i didn't have enough to put any money in
• 1:09:17
  and I found Bitcoin.
• 1:09:19
  And the result is like, you know,
• 1:09:23
  some of us did very well with Bitcoin, right?
• 1:09:26
  This generation is going to have other opportunities.
• 1:09:28
  Bitcoin might be a part of a portfolio,
• 1:09:32
  but I don't think that like,
• 1:09:34
  I don't think you should live your life
• 1:09:35
  looking at what is going to make you rich.
• 1:09:38
  I think it's just a really problematic way
• 1:09:40
  to live your life.
• 1:09:40
  You should live your life looking at,
• 1:09:42
  you know, like we were talking about
• 1:09:43
  the Constitution and Declaration of Independence earlier.
• 1:09:45
  Thomas Jefferson says that we have the ability to pursue happiness, right?
• 1:09:50
  It's the pursuit of happiness.
• 1:09:51
  And I really think that like as Americans in particular, the pursuit of happiness,
• 1:09:55
  and I would say the pursuit of satisfaction, maybe would be even a better word,
• 1:09:59
  is something that we can all participate in.
• 1:10:02
  And I don't think, I think that there's been this narrative, particularly for younger people,
• 1:10:08
  that having money is the pinnacle of life.
• 1:10:11
  When the reality is that the world's built for the Toyota driver,
• 1:10:15
  The whole world's built for people who have 50 bucks.
• 1:10:19
  Everything is built for that person.
• 1:10:21
  It's not to say that you want 50 bucks only,
• 1:10:23
  but I'm just saying like,
• 1:10:24
  I don't think that necessarily Bitcoin is like,
• 1:10:26
  just investing all of your money in Bitcoin
• 1:10:28
  is necessarily the answer to every single person.
• 1:10:30
  And I think that that's always been
• 1:10:32
  the retard maxing pitch for Bitcoin.
• 1:10:34
  While it has been successful for the last decade,
• 1:10:37
  doesn't have to be successful for the next decade
• 1:10:39
  for you to be like fulfilled, satisfied and happy.
• 1:10:42
  Yeah, but I think that's kind of rich
• 1:10:43
  coming from a 2011 Bitcoin.
• 1:10:45
  Everyone says that in your comments, too.
• 1:10:48
  It's not rich at all coming from him.
• 1:10:50
  Just one sec.
• 1:10:51
  As the person here who bought Bitcoin the latest,
• 1:10:53
  I bought Bitcoin in 2016.
• 1:10:54
  I was like 26 years old or whatever.
• 1:10:56
  I had 100 pounds in my name,
• 1:10:58
  and I felt super late.
• 1:11:00
  Compared to Junset, I was super late.
• 1:11:01
  But I think people who are the same age now
• 1:11:04
  with the same amount of money now
• 1:11:05
  are still going to have massive upside opportunity in Bitcoin.
• 1:11:07
  We're clearly not at the top.
• 1:11:09
  That was my point on the Cantillion effect
• 1:11:11
  not necessarily being over.
• 1:11:13
  I do think it's still early.
• 1:11:15
  If things work out, it's like an outdoor cat.
• 1:11:17
  It'll come back.
• 1:11:18
  Unless it gets hit by a car.
• 1:11:20
  I'm sorry.
• 1:11:21
  I got to interject.
• 1:11:22
  So a couple things.
• 1:11:23
  First of all, like whatever amount of money you think is going to make you happy, you're fucking wrong.
• 1:11:29
  Okay?
• 1:11:29
  Like I just look at him.
• 1:11:31
  I think it certainly helps to take a lot of pressure off.
• 1:11:34
  I think that a lot of people say that that's not entirely true when you're not worried about like basic, basic pressures of life.
• 1:11:40
  Hang on.
• 1:11:42
  I want to say this point.
• 1:11:44
  You will always be worried about that, no matter what.
• 1:11:47
  Unconditionally, unilaterally, you will always worry about that.
• 1:11:52
  The real question is whether or not you choose to live for yourself or someone else.
• 1:11:56
  Because I can't tell you how many people I meet that have made the choice.
• 1:12:02
  And I completely understand why and how and the reasoning for it.
• 1:12:06
  But they have chose to prostitute themselves to other people.
• 1:12:09
  And like, I don't judge it because I understand why and how it ends up.
• 1:12:14
  You are actually a free and sovereign individual
• 1:12:17
  that can make a decision about how you choose
• 1:12:20
  to guide your own life, and I wanna welcome you to that,
• 1:12:22
  because like over here, it fucking sucks.
• 1:12:25
  Playing their game you will only lose no matter what If you choose from the get to do something else with yourself and represent who and how and why you want to exist for yourself
• 1:12:38
  that will work unconditionally, unilaterally.
• 1:12:41
  I guarantee it because I've been on the other side.
• 1:12:44
  Wait, you always have to welcome love.
• 1:12:45
  So people who are listening know.
• 1:12:46
  The question was, are you free if you still feel hatred in your heart?
• 1:12:51
  Never.
• 1:12:52
  And like for full gayness, I have to say never.
• 1:12:54
  not because
• 1:12:57
  can I defend
• 1:12:58
  you know like it depends
• 1:12:59
  on the night
• 1:12:59
  and what drugs I'm doing
• 1:13:00
  but not because I'm gay
• 1:13:02
  but because I want to
• 1:13:03
  welcome for the very fact
• 1:13:03
  it's okay to be gay
• 1:13:04
  it's okay
• 1:13:04
  I want to defend
• 1:13:06
  my point earlier though
• 1:13:08
  take away from
• 1:13:09
  you're all taken away
• 1:13:10
  from my throne
• 1:13:10
  my point is
• 1:13:11
  is that I want to
• 1:13:12
  welcome each of you
• 1:13:13
  to sovereignty
• 1:13:14
  god damn it
• 1:13:17
  I'm sorry
• 1:13:20
  this is more trauma
• 1:13:21
  for your therapist
• 1:13:22
  it's okay
• 1:13:23
  he's paid well
• 1:13:24
  defend yourself.
• 1:13:26
  My point is that each of you should actually ask for yourself
• 1:13:29
  what and how can I contribute
• 1:13:31
  to society in a meaningful way that isn't
• 1:13:33
  non-monetary?
• 1:13:35
  If you can welcome that, the
• 1:13:37
  monetary thing will present itself
• 1:13:38
  later down the line in a much
• 1:13:41
  more meaningful way, in a much
• 1:13:43
  bigger way than you could have ever expected.
• 1:13:45
  But you have to welcome
• 1:13:47
  the uncertainty of the whole thing.
• 1:13:50
  As an early Bitcoiner who has
• 1:13:53
  watched Bitcoin go up,
• 1:13:54
  I know a lot of people who've made a lot of money.
• 1:13:57
  And I know a lot of people who are very unhappy
• 1:13:59
  who've made a lot of money.
• 1:14:00
  And I'm just saying, like, I think you can spend
• 1:14:04
  your whole life saying, what is the asset
• 1:14:06
  that this decade is going to perform the best?
• 1:14:08
  You can spend your whole life doing that.
• 1:14:10
  And then you can live on your mommy's couch.
• 1:14:12
  Stretch, yeah.
• 1:14:16
  Stretch, for example.
• 1:14:18
  You can live on your mommy's couch
• 1:14:19
  and count your little boobie coins, right?
• 1:14:23
  And sit there for the rest of your life.
• 1:14:24
  and at 65 be like, I'm now rich.
• 1:14:29
  I'm going to go out to the world and I'm going to go on vacation.
• 1:14:32
  I'm going to go to Singapore or something.
• 1:14:35
  And you'll get there and be like, wow, this is really hard.
• 1:14:37
  I'm 65.
• 1:14:39
  There's a lot of walking.
• 1:14:42
  This place sucks.
• 1:14:44
  This would have been really cool to see at 40.
• 1:14:46
  I used to have a sled.
• 1:14:48
  It was the most favorite thing.
• 1:14:50
  And I'm just saying, like, spend your time thinking about what's going to fulfill you.
• 1:14:56
  Don't spend all of your time thinking about what's going to be the most productive asset
• 1:14:58
  the next 10 years.
• 1:15:00
  And, like, maybe it's Bitcoin.
• 1:15:02
  Maybe it's AI.
• 1:15:03
  Maybe it's Stretch.
• 1:15:05
  Maybe it's something we haven't thought of yet.
• 1:15:07
  I don't know.
• 1:15:08
  But I'm just saying, like, it's the future.
• 1:15:10
  You can't predict it.
• 1:15:11
  A lot of people accidentally will find it, and they'll get really rich, and you'll watch
• 1:15:16
  some of your friends go from $0 to $1 billion.
• 1:15:18
  and they'll still be unhappy.
• 1:15:20
  If they were unhappy when they had very little,
• 1:15:24
  they'll be unhappy when they're very rich.
• 1:15:25
  It's just, I've seen it.
• 1:15:27
  Listen.
• 1:15:27
  Maybe this is a fantastic technology
• 1:15:29
  to take care of yourself,
• 1:15:31
  to take care of your loved ones,
• 1:15:32
  to grow a family,
• 1:15:34
  to take care of your community.
• 1:15:35
  Maybe it's a bottom-up grassroots approach
• 1:15:37
  and we shouldn't expect somebody to do that for us.
• 1:15:40
  Listen, fuck all this.
• 1:15:41
  I took a helicopter here and it was choice.
• 1:15:44
  If you have the means,
• 1:15:46
  I highly recommend it, okay?
• 1:15:48
  and maybe I'm the only retard up on this stage
• 1:15:52
  who thinks Bitcoin's going to 10, 100 million dollars
• 1:15:54
  a coin because that's what I think
• 1:15:55
  so if you're like
• 1:15:57
  hey I'm 25, should I buy Bitcoin at 65
• 1:15:59
  yeah you fucking buy it at 65,000 dollars
• 1:16:02
  do you want to have 100 million dollars?
• 1:16:04
  yeah, buy Bitcoin
• 1:16:05
  don't, don't, don't buy Bitcoin
• 1:16:08
  it's gonna fail, it's gonna go to zero
• 1:16:09
  there's no way it could work
• 1:16:11
  yeah, yeah boo
• 1:16:13
  you fucking suck
• 1:16:15
  like you believe
• 1:16:17
  what the Borg wants you to believe
• 1:16:20
  and you fucking suck because of that.
• 1:16:23
  So yeah, don't buy Bitcoin.
• 1:16:24
  Go do some woodworking.
• 1:16:26
  Go hunting.
• 1:16:27
  Any questions?
• 1:16:28
  If anybody wants to comment on that
• 1:16:30
  or redirect,
• 1:16:31
  we're going to start to wrap this up
• 1:16:33
  before we're really...
• 1:16:34
  That was certainly for your reason.
• 1:16:36
  No, we're not done just yet.
• 1:16:38
  Do we have any questions?
• 1:16:40
  Just ask the most offensive question you can.
• 1:16:41
  Yeah.
• 1:16:41
  Any questions?
• 1:16:43
  It hasn't already.
• 1:16:44
  Way too late.
• 1:16:45
  Way too late.
• 1:16:46
  Who's up in what rails?
• 1:16:48
  Hey, guys.
• 1:16:49
  I have a question.
• 1:16:50
  So right now, quantum computing is regarded as one of the biggest challenge to Bitcoin.
• 1:16:58
  How do you guys see if quantum computing really deciphered or the Bitcoin math problem?
• 1:17:08
  What do you see the future of crypto and Bitcoin this way?
• 1:17:13
  I actually think we should bring Matt Corallo up.
• 1:17:15
  Yeah, I did.
• 1:17:17
  So Matt, get up here.
• 1:17:18
  Get up here.
• 1:17:19
  Get up here.
• 1:17:20
  Yeah, Matt Corallo is coming.
• 1:17:22
  We have some actual confidence in you.
• 1:17:24
  You can ask the retail panel or you can ask Matt.
• 1:17:27
  This is our expert I like totally like into it like Quantum He really smart you about Quantum I going to let Matt do it I think Jonseth would give a great answer
• 1:17:42
  to this
• 1:17:42
  probably yeah
• 1:17:44
  you know what I was going to say actually
• 1:17:48
  I was going to be like you know what's actually really interesting
• 1:17:49
  is we have people who've
• 1:17:51
  been core developers here in the room
• 1:17:53
  actually Matt's in the back and then I was going to invite you up
• 1:17:55
  but then they didn't
• 1:17:56
  I want to clarify this for everybody.
• 1:18:00
  I'm in danger, right?
• 1:18:03
  No. No, you're fine.
• 1:18:05
  I think the serious answer is that
• 1:18:08
  there's still a ways off.
• 1:18:11
  There's really interesting technical advancements
• 1:18:14
  in terms of algorithms and ways that you can build things
• 1:18:20
  with the physical qubits once they start to actually be usable.
• 1:18:24
  but we still have some time
• 1:18:27
  that isn't advancing at the
• 1:18:29
  rate that the algorithm stuff is advancing
• 1:18:31
  that has people really excited and worried
• 1:18:33
  but there's
• 1:18:35
  work to be done but it's also not
• 1:18:37
  as bad as people make it out to be
• 1:18:39
  because the work is
• 1:18:40
  surprisingly easier than it looks at first glance
• 1:18:43
  so I think there's a lot of people who
• 1:18:45
  are like quantum experts who look at
• 1:18:47
  Bitcoin at first glance, don't really understand
• 1:18:49
  all of the crypto top to bottom
• 1:18:51
  and say, oh yeah
• 1:18:53
  well, the elliptic curve cryptography is broken by quantum computers and Bitcoin uses that
• 1:18:57
  everywhere. And so it's going to be hard for them to upgrade. And so Bitcoin is fucked.
• 1:19:01
  But the reality is, for example, seed phrases and the way wallets are built, you can in fact prove
• 1:19:09
  that you know the wallet's seed phrase and use that to spend coins. So there are options that
• 1:19:15
  we have in like an actual emergency scenario where we could do things that would allow people to
• 1:19:20
  retain ownership of their coins, but
• 1:19:22
  would save
• 1:19:24
  Bitcoin, quote unquote.
• 1:19:26
  Nerd, burn him!
• 1:19:28
  Burn him!
• 1:19:30
  You're saying basically that there are ways...
• 1:19:32
  Thank you, Matt, that's enough.
• 1:19:34
  We got one last question.
• 1:19:36
  Go ahead.
• 1:19:37
  Thank you, Matt.
• 1:19:39
  Matt, I love you.
• 1:19:40
  I don't mean that by any means whatsoever.
• 1:19:43
  And I just want to emphasize
• 1:19:44
  that this is the nerd approach.
• 1:19:47
  Can we thank Matt for his service, please?
• 1:19:50
  that's the only thing today last question everybody so this might be the most entertaining
• 1:19:58
  panel i've ever seen at pub key my question you must have a boring life my my question sorry
• 1:20:05
  how on earth are you going to turn this into a podcast luckily that's not going to be on me
• 1:20:11
  that's on vanya here too i've got no idea four minutes four minutes online all right quick one
• 1:20:18
  is it American
• 1:20:20
  hoddle or hoddle
• 1:20:21
  it's hoddle hoddle hoddle rhymes
• 1:20:24
  with bottle it's always hoddle
• 1:20:26
  yeah people always say is it's
• 1:20:28
  well it's hold the word the original word is
• 1:20:30
  hold and it's like no it's a new word
• 1:20:32
  encompassing the buy and hold philosophy
• 1:20:34
  and if that new word is hoddle we don't know how to
• 1:20:36
  read that's how it works
• 1:20:37
  phonetically hoddle makes way
• 1:20:40
  more sense that is not the Rwandan
• 1:20:42
  pronunciation of it which is
• 1:20:44
  hoddle
• 1:20:45
  hoddle
• 1:20:48
  So next time that you do it, do it that way.
• 1:20:50
  All right.
• 1:20:51
  We got any more questions or is that it?
• 1:20:54
  Okay.
• 1:20:54
  I want to say a huge thank you to Eric, Hardell, and Junsef.
• 1:20:58
  They've come from all over the U.S.
• 1:20:59
  Give him a big round of applause.
• 1:21:01
  Woo.
• 1:21:02
  And obviously a massive thank you to Thomas, PubKey.
• 1:21:06
  This has been awesome.
• 1:21:07
  I appreciate you, man.
• 1:21:09
  Yay, PubKey.
• 1:21:11
  And I want to end on the note that each and every single one of you
• 1:21:14
  has a responsibility to actually
• 1:21:17
  talk to your family and friends
• 1:21:19
  about Bitcoin in a mature and
• 1:21:20
  thoughtful way. I know it's very
• 1:21:22
  easy to retreat into the like,
• 1:21:24
  oh yeah, like I don't, I don't know.
• 1:21:27
  You fucking know.
• 1:21:29
  You know exactly what all of this is
• 1:21:30
  about. Go
• 1:21:32
  talk to your family and friends about
• 1:21:35
  why Bitcoin is actually
• 1:21:36
  important from your own stance.
• 1:21:39
  Fuck you. This is important.
• 1:21:41
  You're fucking over here
• 1:21:43
  giggling. I can't believe he's laughing.
• 1:21:44
  I know how dare you.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2 00, you know what?
• 1:21:46
  We're going to have a trial at the DI trial.
• 1:21:50
  Tribunal over there.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2 00, you can't be free.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2 00, all right, everybody.
• 1:21:54
  Thank you so much for coming to pumpkin.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2 00, that's why I'm giggling.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2 00, fantastic.
• 1:21:58
  So I want to thank Danny June since American huddle Eric for being here.
• 1:22:04
  We're going to hang out.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2 00, I think Jensen should sing us out.
• 1:22:07
  Sing us out.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2 00, sing us out.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2 00, come on.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2 00, you got it.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2 00, you got it.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2 00, you got it.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2 00, you got it.
• 1:22:14
  With the shadow of me