Latest / Dear Chelsea / I Disagree with Jessica Tarlov

Transcript

I Disagree with Jessica Tarlov · Dear Chelsea

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys, here are my dates for the High and
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Mighty Tour. In September, I will be in Santa Barbara,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: San Diego, New York City, Philly, and New Haven, Connecticut.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: October is Atlanta, Baltimore, Saginaw, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Boise, Idaho,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and Spokane. And then in November, I'll be in San Francisco.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I'm coming to Salt Lake City, Austin, Houston, Dallas, babies.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'll be there. And then in December, I am closing
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: out my tour in Denver and Vancouver. So get your
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: tickets at ChelseaHandler.com for the High and Mighty Tour.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Hi, Catherine.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Hi, Chelsea.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: I'm good.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I'm home. I'm home from New York. I went to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the US Open.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I did a bunch of New York things.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of things, but you went to
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Laura Lynn Jackson's camp. I did.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: And you know what?
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: What happened?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Everything amazing happened. I actually just got home last night,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: super late, Monday night. I was supposed to leave Sunday,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: but I had a full planes, trains, and automobiles, canceled flight,
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: multiple flights delayed for the next day, hotel situation. But
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Because I had that, I got a whole bunch more signs.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: So that was really exciting.
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Girl, this retreat, so it was at Omega, which is
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: in upstate New York and beautiful grounds, wonderful place. But
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: it was like 550 people.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Whoa.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: By that, I mean like 540 women and 10 guys.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: So it was.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: To all to be with around, have Laurel and Jackson
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: teach them.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: And so it was like three days. She does this
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: every year. It's always, I think she said the second
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: week in September, which it was this year. So you go,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: it's like you have a little workshop on Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: you have a couple workshops in the middle of the
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: day or like morning and afternoon and then another one
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: on Sunday and then everyone kind of heads out. But
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: you're learning how to ask for signs from your loved ones.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: You're learning how to sort of like channel different energies.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: But like the coolest thing was just hearing all the
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: signs that everyone was getting and getting some yourself.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Like it was really, it was really interesting.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: There was some guided meditation.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: You could get like massages and things if you wanted
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to or extra readings from other people there at Omega.
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: But yeah.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: I got to tell you. So I arrived at Omega
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: and it's this beautiful place and I'm taking pictures, but
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: I was just thinking like, I wish I was home. Like,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I should really be here. I
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: had kind of been wrestling with it for like a
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: couple of days. And I walked into the dining hall.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking this as I'm walking into the dining hall
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: and I go get my dinner and I see some
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: women who are about my age who I'm like, okay,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go sit with them. And I go
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: over and it was just like instant connection with There
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: are these three women who I was like, oh, how
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: do you know each other? And it was kind of like, oh,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: we went to the same college. You're like, oh, that's
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: my sister. I was like, okay, so you two are sisters.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: You two went to the same college. And they go, well,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: turned out they were all sisters from the same sperm donor.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: They found each other as adults, like in their 30s.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: And they were just like the most incredible women, just
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: filled with love. Everybody was filled with love. I got
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: some signs specifically because.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I was delayed.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: So yesterday... I was in like a whatever crappy hotel
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: they put me up in next to the airport, you know,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: at my like 3 a.m. heading to a hotel after
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: my canceled flight situation. And I'm kind of going through
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: something and I just was like having myself a little
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: cry and feeling really down about it and just feeling like,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: you know, it felt like something that's like from my ancestors.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: That's like a drive and a wish that I have.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: And I was just saying like, I need you to
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: make yourselves known and tell me that I should continue
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: with this and keep trying.
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: And a.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Couple days before, when we were setting our intentions for
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: our signs, a telephone popped into my mind. And I thought,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: that's silly. Like, why would it be a telephone, like
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: an old timey telephone? It felt like too out there
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: because there.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Aren't telephones anymore.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: And also like, too obvious because we all have a
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: phone right in our hands. So I sort of dismissed it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't even write it down as one of my signs.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: But I'm like talking out loud to them and I'm
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: crying in this hotel room.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden the telephone rings.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: And I thought like, oh, it's just them like calling
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: to tell me my shuttle's here. And it rings two
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: times and I pick it up and it's just a
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: dial tone.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I get it. You're there.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And so it was, like, so hugely what I needed.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: And then 20 minutes later, Chelsea, I get a random
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: text from my sister that was just, like, she knows
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: that I, you know, when I was growing up, I
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: loved X-Files. So my sister had, like, seen somebody with
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: an X-Files tattoo and just, like, sends it to me.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And it's got a cell phone on it.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Do you see that?
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. It's got, like, an all-time cell.
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: Phone on it. And then.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: And then, of course, I go to the airport. My
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: like next flight, like I land in Atlanta and that
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: flight's delayed. So I'm back at the customer service counter.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And what do I see?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: But just like 20 phones, like 20 of those like
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: courtesy phones hanging there.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Old time phones too. Old timey phones.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: And it's just so funny to me because another reason
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: I had originally dismissed it was like, my grandma, I
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: would always call her and talk to her on the phone.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: And then eventually found out she didn't really like talking
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: on the phone. So it was just like, that can't
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: be the sign from her. So anyway, they got through.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: They got through to me.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: But it was just like those types of things all weekend.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Everyone was getting them. It was so incredible. It was
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: really moving. There were a lot of people there who
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: were in a joyful place, a lot of people who
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: were in deep grief. And It was just, it was
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: a wonderful time of like connection with other women.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So. That's wonderful.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it was really worth going to.
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Does Laura do everything herself or does she have other
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: people there?
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So I thought it would be like her teaching a
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: little bit and other people, but she's like teaching the
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: whole time. There's not like a ton of like one-on-one
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: interaction unless she sort of.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: Like is called to speak to you.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: But it's, it, You don't really feel like anything's missing
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: because you're just with all these other cool women.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, I love that.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: So very well worth it for any listeners who want
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: to go next year. I would highly recommend.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.
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  Speaker 6: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: Well, great.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. I'm so happy that happened.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Chelsea.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: Aww.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad we're back from New York, but you
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: spoke to our guest today when you were in New York.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So that was great.
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And I love this woman and I love her book.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: She's like one of the only Republican. I'm sorry. She's
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: not a Republican. She's one of the only Democrats that
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: goes on the Fox. Is it the five? Yeah, the five.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: She is the only one. And she just fucking gives it,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: serves it up every single day. And she's got a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: new book out. So I really want people to buy it.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: She's the liberal co-host of Fox News The Five, author
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of the new book. It's called I Disagree, a great
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: read about how to deal with people in your life
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: that you do not agree with politically, winning arguments without
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: losing friends. And she also co-hosts the Raging Moderates podcast
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: with Scott Galloway. So please welcome Jessica Tarlow.
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: Hi.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like I know you because I listen
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: to you every week.
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's kind of weird. And I have prepped harder.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: For this interview that I think like election night.
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: Oh, stop it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: Well, you're awesome. And I thought that for a long time.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: But then when you're going into a conversation that's different
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: than the usual conversations that you have, and especially around
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: a book, which is just such a unnerving experience. And
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: there's so much in a book and you've like, oh,
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: my God, I can't believe I told people all these
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: things about me. So I have been re-listening to old
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: interviews of yours, a recent audio book. So you've been
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: in my head.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Well, you're a real researcher, which is what I learned
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: from reading your book. I mean, I knew that from
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: listening to you every week on Raging Moderates, which actually
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I have a question about the title of that because
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like you or Scott are moderates.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: So we got that a lot. We thought that the
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: title was just really going to hit because we launched
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: right before the 2024 election. And Kamala was the nominee.
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: Remember when we thought things could be nice and good?
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I remember Kamala.
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: And it was Brat Summer. And we had this reprieve from...
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: the Biden debate debacle. And we thought, OK, maybe things
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: will be good. And we're for people that want to
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: build coalitions. And we know that you need to get
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: everyone from progressive lefties to moderate Republicans into your tent
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: to win an election like Biden did in 2020. And Scott,
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: who's a great marketer, was like, what about raging moderates?
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, that gets it because we're
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: reasonable and we want to build a big tent. But
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: we're also angry because people are angry right now. And
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: that's very in vogue in politics. And then she loses
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: and Trump picks up all of these voters that were
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: typically Democratic voters. And we thought, are we kind of
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: fucked having this title? Because everyone now is saying it's
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: not about being a moderate. It's about being as far
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: left as possible and galvanizing that anger and spirit. We
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: still like the title and the logo and all of it,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: but I understand what you're saying. So is it a
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: new definition of moderate, I guess?
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess since the party has moved so far
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to the left that moderates now has a different meaning anyway.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah. Some people would say we're like Republicans light
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: if you read some of the comments.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I wouldn't.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Well, imagine naming it Raging Liberals. Nobody would have listened.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: You would never get anybody that wasn't a liberal listening
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: to that.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: No.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: So at least you're getting some people from the other...
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: side listening to your.
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: Yes. And we try to have guests, at least some.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: Now it's mostly just me and Scott. But when we
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: first launched, it was important to actually have folks from
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: the other side on. So we had Larry Hogan, who
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: in this Republican Party is basically a Democrat.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: But I also had you know, Kellyanne Conway on.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: Which you really see the difference between the online world
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: and those who listen. Because online, it was so much
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: anger and fury about having her on. And the episode
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: did really well. Same thing having Ben Shapiro. Because people
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: do like to listen to disagreement, thoughtful disagreement, but they
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: want to hear the back and forth.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Well, that's your specialty. That is your specialty, thoughtful disagreement.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, you are the only liberal in a sea
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: of Republicans on that Fox show called The Five. And
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I've watched it a couple of times only because you're
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: on it. And I just I'm very impressed by how
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you handle yourself. And I know you I know you
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: hear that all the time. You speak a lot about
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: that in the book. But I think let's start from
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I think you start the book talking about learning discourse
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: at dinner and family conversations and your parents and their
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: connection and and their marriage. So let's talk a little
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: bit about that and how that shaped you growing up
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: with parents that were so, A, devoted to each other
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and who changed careers kind of midway through. Not kind of,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: they did.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: All the time. It was like the liberal arts education
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: approach to life. And I describe it as a frantic
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: Jewish family, which I think, you know, you know about.
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: We have less kids than you guys, just me and
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: my sister. But it really felt like there was a
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: a constant and sometimes incessant dialogue going on. No quiet,
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: no peace, but in all the best ways, where every
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: emotion was valid and worth having a conversation about, which
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: matters more when you're five than when you get older.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: And my parents and certainly my early educators really treated
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: me and my sister as equals and that our opinions
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: and our feelings were valid and worth exploring. And it
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: makes it sound like it wasn't fun. It was totally fun.
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: And we did dance parties and all that kind of stuff.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: But we were very much given a seat at the
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: table and they would have friends over who I think
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: probably in their homes, kids wouldn't be at dinner. And
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: it was just the norm. Like, of course, Molly and
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: Jesse would be sitting at the table with us.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: It's very Euro of them.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: Yes. And you could start dinner later. You know, we
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: weren't operating on a kid's schedule. We traveled like adults
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: with them. My dad worked abroad a ton. He went
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: from being a lawyer to producing movies and would go
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: on location. And so we would pack up and go
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: live in Johannesburg with him, go down to Auckland, wherever
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: it was. And they were like, oh, our tiny friends
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: are coming. And that was kind of it.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Your dad sounds and your mother both sound like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: incredible parents and also It's nice to read about that
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: kind of relationship that you describe having with your father
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and him being so kind of open to the world,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: open to his own life, open to hearing your opinions,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: and also helping you shape your own opinions. It seems
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: like it was a really big part of who you are.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: Totally. I've had friends who've read the book say, oh,
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: this is just a straight-up love letter to your dad.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: I don't go to therapy and I probably should. So
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: I feel like I got a lot of that out
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: in the book about how incredible he was and the
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: kind of example that he set, not only professionally, but
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: really personally in my parents' marriage. Hashtag goals for sure,
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: how much they were in love and professionally supportive of
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: each other too. So yeah, it's not the life I
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: would have expected that either of them would have had
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: from how they grew up. But they really put their
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: heads together and thought, what could be the greatest ride
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: for us and the girls? And then they took us
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: on it, which is so cool. And we're trying now.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: My husband and I have two girls. But we are
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: not as free as they are. You know, I have
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: to go to a studio in Midtown. So you're not
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: really packing up and going on the road.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: So tell us about 9-11. I know your father passed
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: away from tongue cancer.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: From 9-11. Yes. But before that, tell us about how
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: your family came together during that time. And what your parents,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: how'd you do?
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so 9-11 happens. My dad is actually in Los Angeles.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: My sister and I went to school. We grew up
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: downtown in Tribeca, right by the towers. We went to
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: school uptown, Upper East Side and Upper West Side. And
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: I'm sure, where were you?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I was in Los Angeles.
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: You were in Los Angeles.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: With your father.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: What were you guys doing?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: You know exactly. No, I was in Los Angeles. I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: remember getting that phone call. I think my manager at
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the time called me. Yeah, it was very pretty early
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: in the morning because it was nine o'clock here. So
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it would have been six something. And he said, are
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you watching TV? And I as soon as he said
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that sentence, I was like, oh, no.
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And then I got in the car. It's such a
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: distinct memory. And you know how psychologists talk about where
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you are when things like this happen in your life
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and what you remember and how memories differ, especially like
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: between two sisters. You can have the same experience and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a completely— Which you.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: Learn when you're writing a book.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Because my sister was like, that did not happen to you,
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: by the way.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to my life.
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: Well, you have a lot of people to fact check against. Yeah.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And my brother's sister was like, that never happened. But
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: then always one sibling comes forward and they're like, actually,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Chelsea's right. That did happen. Not always, but most of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: the time. And I remember driving to my manager's house.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: He lived in Culver City. I lived in an apartment
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: in Santa Monica. And I was driving, looking out the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: window like at the sky, wondering if like bombs were
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: going to start descending and planes were just going to
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: start crashing. Like because with no idea, I was just
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: going to his house for safety to hang out with
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: his family. Tell me about your experience.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was early on in the day, the
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: school day, and basically a few TVs across the school,
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: you know, like wheeling them into classrooms to start watching
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: the coverage, you know, Matt Lauer, that kind of stuff.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: And then the school started to get into a huge
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: panic because they knew we all had to be picked up.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: But there were kids whose parents obviously couldn't come get them.
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: And then there were the kids who had to go
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: back to the area where the terrorist attack happened. And
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: what do you do with them?
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: And so I didn't know what was going on at
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: my sister's school, obviously, at the time. And cell phone
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: coverage was down. Not that we had them yet or
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: she didn't have them. I had gotten mine, which I
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: think was a point of contention on a fight in
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: the household. So one of my best friend's moms actually
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: signed out 10 to 15 kids and brought them to
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: her house. And she was trying to make contact with
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: the right parents saying they're going to be here. It
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: was on the Upper East Side whenever you can get here.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: And my mom couldn't get through to us. And my
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: dad couldn't get through to us, at least at first.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: So he started driving home. And he got to Vegas.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I thought that was so, like, just such a sweet
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: thing to read.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: You know, like that he just started driving for the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: three-day drive that it would have turned out to be.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: I think he was hopeful that by the time he
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: hit Vegas, he could make contact with someone and get
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: on a plane. But, you know, airspace was closed. And
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: where was your mom? My mom was downtown. She went
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: out to the street. I grew up on this tiny
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: one block long street called J Street in Tribeca.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: And she went to the corner on Greenwich Street and
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: just watched the scenes of it and didn't see a
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: plane flying in, but was just, you know, watching smoke
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: and the people panic running the wrong way up Greenwich
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Street thinking, my God, how is this possible? What is happening?
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: And then how do I get my kids? So she
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: made contact with... my sister's school and talked to my
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: friend's mom. And we were able to, me and my
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: best friend who also lived in Tribeca and my sister,
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: we were able to meet up and we started walking home.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: And we walked down Fifth Avenue just looking at this
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: cloud of smoke with people mostly going in the other direction.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: And then she was able to meet us. 14th Street
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: was the demarcation of where people who were residents could
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: continue going back down. And so... We all just walked
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: home together. We weren't allowed to stay in our house,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: so we packed up a few belongings. It didn't make
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: it into the book. My sister really wanted it to,
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: so I'll just tell you that my main focus was
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: my retainer, that I was obsessed with getting my retainer.
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: I had just gotten my braces off, and I thought,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: I will not survive if I don't have my retainer.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I hear you. Do you?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: And I'm obviously channeling all of the other freak out
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: that's going on into this little thing that's supposed to
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: keep my teeth straight, which it didn't even, I'm going
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: to get Invisalign soon. But the retainer was fetched and
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: we went to a friend's house who was a couple
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: blocks north to be able to stay there for a
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: few days. But my mom and my dad was able
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: to get on a plane the next day to come home.
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: They opened up our house to all the first responders,
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: which was amazing. So you had the fire trucks parked
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: on your block with license plates from all over the
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: country because we were in this together somehow. Like you say,
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: you go, you want to go be with family, you know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: with your manager so close to you. And I don't know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: there was nothing like that day.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: No.
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: And the response to it, I think we saw a
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: little bit of it when COVID started. Remember when all
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: of the nurses, travel nurses, and even people who aren't
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: travel nurses poured into the big cities.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, The beginnings of COVID and 9-11, except 9-11
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: hasn't been sullied in the way that COVID has been sullied.
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: Well, it's so, and I would love to talk to
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: you about it because I was listening to you on
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: Armchair Expert from, I guess, a year ago, and you
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: guys were loosely talking about it, about masking and how
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: people did the best that they could with the information
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: that they had. and that it wasn't malicious. And then
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: I work with people who think that it was malicious.
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: And it's been one of the more difficult political divides
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: for me to battle through, which is crazy that you
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: can have a more sane conversation about abortion.
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: Than you can about a mask. COVID restrictions.
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: A mask.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: It's like, I'll never understand that argument. I don't understand
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: why people would be so upset about having to cover
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: their face. They love masks. Look at ICE. Like they're
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: wearing masks all day long. They don't have a problem
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: with that. Why do they have a problem about protecting people?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: It's like you tell someone they have to protect other
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: people and they're like, I'm not having it.
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah. It's crazy.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: It is really crazy. And one of the only ways
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: that I I think I've been able to penetrate that
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: is that my dad was dying during COVID. So explaining
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: to them what getting the vaccine meant because he got
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: vaccinated in a nursing home. So one of the first
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: people that were able to get it, but then you're
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: freaking out because people are dying in nursing homes and
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: they're keeping them pooled with people who are sick. And
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: until you bring out something that is so unequivocally counter
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: to the argument that they're making or where you would
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: seem so cruel if you said, no, actually, I still
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: think it's bullshit, is the only way to get, like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: some quiet about COVID response.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: So wait, where were we? Okay, 9-11 and then the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: firefighters being at your house.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: And my parents had done this incredible thing conversion. They
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: took a peanut roasting factory that they bought in 1990
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: for $ 250, 000 and had turned it into our home, which
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: was amazing. And you could never get a deal like that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: So the first floor of our house was an office,
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: a casting office and a bathroom. And so the doors
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: were just open and there were benches set up and
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: first responders would just come in and out. And we
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: all started delivering lunches and dinners for the people that
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: were out working. So all the restaurants opened up their kitchens.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: And you saw Nobu making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: which seemed not their usual. I don't know. But I
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: do remember there was a deli on the corner of
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: Reed Street and Greenwich. And all the other stores were
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: not charging for anything because get over yourself, right? There's
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: just been an enormous terrorist attack. 2,300 plus people have died.
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: You have first responders from all over the country. Rudy
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: Giuliani's walking around. Hillary Clinton's walking around. Like, what are
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: you doing charging for Lysol wipes or whatever? But this
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: deli kept charging and watching the eruptions of residents at
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: the people who work there saying, at this moment, how
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: can you possibly be nickel and diming people that need
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: these supplies either to help or to live or whatever
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: it is? And it was one of those hugely clarifying
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: moments where you think some things are bigger than making
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: $ 3. 99 on your polling spring or whatever you're doing. So
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: we worked down there for a little bit, family back together,
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: which was nice. My dad, huge relief to be able
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: to be with us. And it's one of those experiences,
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: not only because my dad ended up passing away from
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: a 9-11 cancer, and I will say two of my
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: best friends who also lived in the area, they both
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: lost a parent to it. As well. So the air
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: is fine disclaimer that we got is obviously not true.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: Oh, God.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: But it has created this community in the 9-11 community,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: which is so much bigger than the first responders. And
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: as Jon Stewart is always talking about, this is really
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: about Hundreds of thousands of people either worked there, lived there,
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: lost people, you know, in the attacks or in the
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: aftermath of the attack. So there's the 9-11 community. But
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: it was my first experience with the America community.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: I grew up in very rarefied air. You know, I'm
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: a New York City upper middle class Jewish girl. Things
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: were fine. So it was amazing to be part of
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: something like Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: A lesson in community and like what you do when
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: shit really hits the fan.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah.
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: And how little all of the stuff that we're mired
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: in on a daily basis actually matters. Yeah. You know,
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: people need to eat, go to the bathroom and help
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: each other.
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: That's really it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: It's a formative moment, you know, about a community. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's something that you probably refer to with
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: or without knowing. Like, you know, a lot in your
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: mind because... it does kind of create the, we all
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: are one person, you know, and all of these things
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: that separate us, which you do so beautifully every night
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: that you're on the five is like, you talk about
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: in the book so many times about how people come
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: up to you and say, how can you do it?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: How can you sit there? But what you talk about
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in the book is very, is quite moving and very touching.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: And I certainly was touched reading it, like your relationships
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: with all of these people that You kind of go
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: to bat with every single day that there are real
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: friendships that you talk about your kids. You share information
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: about the schools your kids are going to or movies
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: or shows that the kids can watch and dealing with.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Being on the other side of such criticism, I think
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: is a lesson that so many of our listeners are
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: going to enjoy learning and reading about how to remain
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: dignified with a plum while making an argument. I certainly
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: would love to have more of that in my life.
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: But you do it so well. I mean, I was
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: pumped that you wanted to talk to me generally, but
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: to specifically talk to you about this, because I watch
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: like the Kevin Hart roast. And I'm hiding from the
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: shit that they're saying about you and sometimes the shit
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: you're saying about them back for sure. But all of
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: your material is so fearless and you genuinely don't seem
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: like your feelings get hurt. And mine do.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: But do they still get hurt?
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: I think that there's a special kind of criticism box
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: if it's the president. The president is really a tough
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: one to handle.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Well, that— and I was actually surprised to hear you say
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: in the book that you did cry when he first
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: tweeted about you.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: There are some things that he says that just cut differently.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Some of it is so comical and ridiculous. But when
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: he hones in on things that you're self-conscious about yourself—
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: And that you think about. And he said that I
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: had a jittery presentation and an unendurable voice. And I'm
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: hyper aware that this is not the voice someone imagines
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: for TV. It's not melodious. It's very much elder millennial
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: or whatever you would call it. That makes you think
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: that there are millions of people watching you who are
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: thinking that same thing. It's one of his superpowers.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, and I think you're confirming
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: what I already believe, which is it really only matters
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: if you yourself think it's true.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Criticism really only matters if you— so when those guys call
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: me a whore or blah, blah, blah, I don't care
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: about that because I don't believe that to be true.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: They can call me whatever they want. I mean, you
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: should see my DMs. I mean, it's laughable. It's so silly. Like,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh. You know, and you try to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: talk to some of them and then you're like, oh,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: what's the point of this? This is a waste of
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: my day. But you talk about your voice a lot
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: in the book. It's called Vocal Fry. And you tried
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to change your voice, which I feel like that made
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: me sad for you that you tried to change your voice.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: But I understand because we all have our insecurities. I
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: get it. And what the weirdest turn and twist in
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that story is that Roger Ailes gave you the go
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: ahead and said it has nothing to do with your voice.
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: It's not your voice. It's your content.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I know, which was such an interesting story for me
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: to read.
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: I know, it's very tough. And I wanted to make
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: sure that everyone understood that Roger Ailes is a very
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: bad man. And I did not want to be, what
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: do the kids say, glazing him or whatever. But he
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: also knew a lot about TV programming.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: And that conversation with him where he said, you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: think about who has the most real estate on the network.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: And it was Neil Cavuto at the time who said,
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: was a man in his 60s, but had vocal fry, essentially.
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: It sounded like a car driving over gravel. And he
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: said the most important thing is that people, no matter
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: what room in the house they're in, they know it's you.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: Whether they like you or not, it's about the fact
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: that they recognize that Jessica Tarliff's on TV or that
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: Chelsea Handler's on TV. And that if you try to
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: make yourself sound like the rest, you're giving up something
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: really valuable. And it just made me a lot more
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: secure in being me, even having to clear my throat
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: on air or joking about my voice, which I do
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: regularly on The Five. I'll just say, viewers can't get
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: enough of this voice. And knowing that some of it
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: is they might not like vocal fry, but most of
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: it is that they don't like my point of view
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: and they don't like my facts and that that's really
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: what they're struggling with. And because I'm so obsessed with
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: researching everything and making sure that- Which I love. I
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: love it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: It's so dorky, but- It's not though, but because it's
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: how you win an argument. I mean, the data, you
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: talk about that in your book so much. You talk
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: about your education on that, and that is everything you
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: need to win an argument without getting emotional. I think
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that's the problem that so many people are having these days,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: especially our listeners. We get so many people who call
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in talking about their conversations at different and talking about
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: how to have an argument without letting your emotions get involved,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: to not take it personally. And I really don't have that.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I don't take things. I don't care. I mean, I
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: so cool. Sometimes even when I start to care, I'm like,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I have to remind myself, oh, you don't care about this.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: And then it doesn't take long to move on to
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the next thing.
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So I think some of your like the learnings that
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I took from the book that I think are going
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: to really go over well with our audience is really
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to have your data behind you to actually know what
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you're talking about when you're talking about and not spew nonsense,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: which we've all been guilty of, you know, having a
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: point of view rather than having facts. or a data set.
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: I think there's a big difference between your worldview or
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: your point of view and the approach you're taking to
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: a specific argument, which is usually issue specific. So Ben
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: Shapiro said around the rise of Trump, you know, the
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: facts don't care about your feelings. And that was a
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: lesson that I had to learn because I thought there's
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: no way that a monster can win a national election.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: I understand there might be certain pockets of the country
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: that are into the guy on the Access Hollywood tape,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: but you're telling me that Mike Pence can jam with this, right?
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: That this is going to be okay. And I was,
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: you know, enthralled with, do you remember Hillary Clinton's role
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: model's TV ad. I thought it was the best ad
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: of the cycle. I'm revealing myself as too much of
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: a politics nerd here. But anyway, it was a bunch
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: of kids watching TV, and it was Trump mocking a
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: disabled reporter, comments about John McCain. And you just think,
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: this is disqualifying stuff, right? And then you're jolted into
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: the real world, which is a lot of people, A,
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: are like that and think that that's fine, but B,
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: can compartmentalize better than we can.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: But also have been given permission to act in this tenor,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you know, to behave in this way. I landed in
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Boston the other day. I was gone for a month
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: in Europe.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It looked great. Thank you. I went to Spanish school.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: It was so exciting to learn and so humbling. I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: loved it. I walked to school every day like a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: little schoolgirl with my backpack. I was ready to rumble.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And I got back. I landed at Logan Airport. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I had a rental car. And I was sitting at
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the island where you get out and trying to plug
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: my phone in. And some police officer was like, you
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: can't be here. You know, very, very aggressive. And I
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, okay. So I pull away. And 50
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: yards later, another police officer in one of those wide
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: brim state trooper hats, which for some reason come across
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: as extremely racist, starts screaming at me to roll my
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: window down. And then he goes, get off your phone, lady.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: And I go, what? He goes, get off your phone.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I go, sir, I'm trying to plug my phone in.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to do it while I was stopped.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And now I'm not allowed to do it because you
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: think I care? And just started this vitriolic tirade. It was, yes.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And I was so taken aback. And I said, sir,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: why are you screaming at me? I haven't done anything.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And then he goes, you can either pull over, get
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a ticket, or you can put your phone down and
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: drive away. And, of course, I was like, all right,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drive away. I had a two-and-a-half-hour drive
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: ahead of me. But the whole drive, I'm sitting there
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: with my rebuttal, you know? I'm like, actually, no.
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: I wish I would have said it.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I'll take the ticket, and then I'll take your badge number,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and then I'm going to report you, and then you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: going to find out who I am, and then you're
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: really never going to get rid of me.
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: And we're going to go to court, and it's going
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: to be really bad for you.
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to fucking make your life hell.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And then so the whole drive there, I was just like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: welcome to America. Welcome back to America. Like the level
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: of like the the vile tone and tenor that we're
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: living in just is so ick and so unpleasant. And
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: that that's the biggest problem with the way that men
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: feel free to talk to women. Yeah. And talk to
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: anyone that's not a white male. You know, there's a
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: very specific kind of man I'm talking about. And that
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: has been really hard to wrap my head around, how
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: you can feel comfortable writing somebody. And obviously we both know,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and you say this in the book too, which I
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: agree with completely, that it's a lot easier to hide
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: online than it is in person. Like a lot of
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: these people in person would never say.
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: These things to you.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: They melt. Yes.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: Where you just say, oh my, hi.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Except for that police officer.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: Except that guy. But that was a wide brim hat. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: That never goes well.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I really hope you're not married because your.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: Former wife is going to— He's definitely married. But she
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: probably hates him.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I know. Well, of course she hates him.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: And she probably loves you. That would be— he comes home
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: and she's watching something of yours and he's like, I
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: just fucking cursed out Chelsea Handler.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that he knew who I was
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: or recognized me, but it would make a lot of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: sense if he did. That would make more sense than
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: him talking to a stranger like that. But I've heard
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you speak about this on the podcast, Unraging Moderates 2,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: since you're the mother of two children, that, you know,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: that's what I get the most angry about is the
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: way that men think that they can talk to strangers.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: people who have different color skin or women in this
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: way that he's given permission. Trump has given permission and
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: this administration has given permission to, there's no dignity or
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: grace or, you know, it's left the building for the moment.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: And I wonder how long it will take us to
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: get back on track or if we will get back
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: on track.
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: I think that it'll be a modified version at best.
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: Trump leaves, God willing, whatever. And it's, Hopefully a Democratic president.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: But the Republican Party has been fundamentally changed by the
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: impact of Trump. So I don't think it boomerangs back.
• 35:14
  Speaker 5: But I also I think that that's healthier because I
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: think that we were probably acting a little too highfalutin
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: and had a little bit too much decorum. for the
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: level of anxiety that the average American has not about
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: being able to be racist or sexist or something like that,
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: but about their kitchen table issues. Because that was the
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: lesson of 2024 for me. Because I had been going
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: around saying, oh, you should love Joe Biden because we
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: had the fastest recovery of anyone in the G7. like
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: as if that means anything to someone that's actually struggling
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: to get by. And there's a visceralness to the way
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: that Donald Trump can connect with people that I think
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: we should continue to pay attention to. We should also
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: try to be more polite and treat people with respect
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: and not pass policies that take away people's health care
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: and decimate American heartland, all the things. He's been terrible
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: on a policy level. But what he has exposed in
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: what people need from their electeds. I think there are
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: positive lessons to take from that. And Scott and I
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: on the podcast and even some of my commentary on
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: The Five has been very critical of the Democratic Party
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: for missing that oomph, you know, the raging and the moderates.
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: People are not interested in the business as usual.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: There's a quote in your book, and this is going
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: back to when you're talking about going to an all-girls
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: school in Bryn Mawr, and I love this, what you
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: said here. You said, That is a great statement. Because
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: it is very emblematic of what I think so many
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: women are missing, you know, the freedom to live out loud,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the freedom to grow, you know, without looking to see
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: if some boy is looking at them or shrinking in
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the space of men. And while that's not, you know.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the fault necessarily of all men. That's just the kind
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: of way it goes down when you learn in a
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: system or you go to a school like that. So
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about Bryn
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Mawr because it seems like you had just, you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: like it was your making in a sense, your coming
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: of age.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: It was definitely my coming of age and it was
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: a bizarre choice. I went to co-ed school my whole
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: life and my friends definitely thought it was strange that
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: I was considering all women's college and then ended up
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: applying early there and just jumping headfirst into that environment.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: But there is a warmth and a familiarity of an
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: all-women's environment that lets you take huge swings and also
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: make big misses and not worry about what's to come next,
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: like a humiliation in front of the guy that you
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: like or that a professor isn't going to understand what
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: you're going through. I I feel like we're designed to
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: understand us, which I don't have a lot of friends
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: that had that kind of special experience. And it's in
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: this consortium with Haverford and Swarthmore, and I had a
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: Haver boyfriend, that's what we called him, and I could
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: go over and hang out, you know, and come home
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: and not have to use his, like, gross co-ed bathroom
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: and things like that. And it was just an incredibly
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: rich environment for me to figure out what I was
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: good at and what I wasn't good at. I talk
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: about it in the book as flashing green lights that,
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: you know, especially in liberal arts education.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: It's very Matthew McConaughey.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I didn't think of it that way.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Two peas in a pod.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, no.
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: I would love to be in a pod with him.
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: He seems like a ton of fun, but I don't
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: think that's in my bingo card.
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: But.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: You know, we are all, especially when you go to
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: these schools, taught, you know, figure out what you love,
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: if it's gender studies or it's whatever. And now everyone
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: is graduating with these degrees and they can't get decent jobs, right,
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: that pay off their loans or they're in their mom's basement.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: Like Scott talks about this all the time. And Bryn
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: Mawr really made me think about what I was good
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: at and then what could also be a life for you,
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: like a career path. And for me, it was actually
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: further study because I stayed in academia until I was
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: almost 30.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for a while.
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I went for a couple of master's degrees and
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: a PhD. I was really refusing to enter the real world.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And then worked for Boris Johnson's campaign.
• 39:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, before he was so insane. He was just kind
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: of eccentric and a philanderer and an enthusiastic cycler, which
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: was a good time to be in Boris Johnson's world.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I did that campaign before I moved home.
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: And then I got to work on Mike Bloomberg's polling team,
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: which is the dream campaign. Because he has unlimited money
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: and our values are completely aligned. You know, pro-choice, climate
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: change matters, education reform, women's rights. I was like, sign
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: me up for forever of this kind of thing.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Are you wearing your dad's glasses right now?
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really cute.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: Thanks.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I love that part of the book. I didn't know that.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I mean, your glasses are your
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: signature for sure. But I didn't know until I read
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the book that you were got your glasses.
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: Took him off his dead body. It was like, these
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: are mine now.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I actually had the cheaper version of them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: I had, you know... So these are Buffalo Horn, and
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: I had the plastic version. And I remember he got
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: them when he was a couple months out from dying.
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: And I thought, Dad, like, it's a pretty big investment. Like,
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: you're about to go without saying that to him. And
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: he was always very positive. like, I'm going to beat
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: this thing for the 80th time and make sure I
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: was pregnant. And, you know, me, my daughter and my
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: sister had a new baby and he was so into
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: the next generation, but he was like, no, no, I
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: want the Buffalo horn ones. I don't want the ones
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: that you have. And I was like, okay. So I
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: went to the store and I bought these and he
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: wore them for a Then when we did the who
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: gets dibs on what, I was like, those are definitely mine. So, yeah,
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: it feels special. I don't want to make it out
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: like every day I think, oh, daddy, what do you
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: want me to say about immigration today? But it is
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: a very special way to stay connected to him. And
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: I think that I inherently see the world a bit
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: through his eyes, you know?
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: My parents, it's funny when you talk about reading about
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: your parents and they're kind of like, it felt like
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a very like political family gathering, you know, the way
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: you describe dinners and stuff like that. And I just
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's so nice because our family was
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: like political, politically minded, my brothers and sisters. But my
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: dad never voted, but he talked about politics all the time.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like- Isn't that so annoying? It's so
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: fucking annoying.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: And then you grow up- Like there's a thing you
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: can do to change this stuff. What are you?
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Who do you think you are to talk about it?
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: What was his rationale?
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Just his vote didn't matter. You know, that kind of attitude.
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: But still, no, no, no.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: It's just a terrible example, I think, as a parent
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: with six children to not be a voter. Do you
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? My mom was an immigrant. She
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: was German. So- I can get that a little bit more.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: She wasn't really as politically astute, but my dad belabored politics,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: talked about it all the time. And so for him
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: to be talking about it out one side of his
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: mouth and out of the other side of his mouth,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: choosing not to vote, I feel like is a little,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: you know, ick. But I know you don't make a
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: lot of predictions because that's more Scott.
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: Scott loves the predictions.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Well, he's not bad at them. No, he's very good
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: at them.
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: People pay him a lot of money for those predictions.
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: I know, I know.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: And it's, yeah, so he's pretty astute at them. But
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: what do you, so how are you viewing the midterms?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Like where we are as a country now, knowing that
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: they're going to do whatever they can to cheat and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: not knowing how they're going to be able to do that,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: but knowing that there are ways. What do you think?
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: What is your gut telling you?
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: My gut is telling me that it is a very
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: blue environment and that basically all of the gains that
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: they saw in 2024 will be zapped away. So all
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: of the young voters that were persuaded by Donald Trump
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: on the NELC boys or whatever are coming back to
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: the Democrats, not because they're particularly enamored with the Democrats,
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: but just because it's been going so terribly. And— I
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: think that the Iranians are very aware of the fact
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: that these midterms matter a lot and are going to
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: continue on with this war and embarrassing us, frankly, as
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: long as they possibly can and driving up the price
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: of gas. And I have friends who push back and
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: they say, You really think that Ayatollah is sitting around
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: thinking about our midterms? And I said, well, maybe yes.
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: And is it 72 or 77 virgins that he's going
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: to get wherever he's going?
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's 72, but I could be off.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: I'm not up to speed on my— you know, you're
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: dealing with people that are in a religious war. And
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: I said, yeah, but they're playing in our press constantly.
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: They're making those crazy Lego videos. They know exactly what
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: the fuck they're doing. And they know that they're tanking
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: his approval and making this more and more difficult for him.
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: And they're enjoying it all to our benefit, I guess,
• 44:50
  Speaker 5: electorally speaking. I feel good about it, but I think
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: it's going to be positive in places you wouldn't expect.
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: I'm more optimistic. I'm I'm going to start with my concerns.
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: I'm more concerned about Michigan and Maine than I expected
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: to be and more hopeful about Iowa. And I love
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: North Carolina and what's going on in Alaska. And I'm
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: a big James Tallarico fan in Texas. And I don't
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: know if Texas ever goes blue.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, they just keep doing this dance with us.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we've been fucked by Texas now three times.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: And spent so much money on it. But I do
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: think So I wasn't a particularly big Beto person. Really?
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: No. Why?
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: I was doing this job. I wasn't on The Five,
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: but I was a contributor at Fox, and I was
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: talking about politics all the time. But he just didn't
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: hit for me in the same way. I saw a
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: few speeches that he gave where I thought, yeah, I
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: get this, but I never transferred over to, oh, could
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: Texas even go purple? It just felt so far away
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: from it, and it was, you know, peak Donald Trump and— Generally,
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: I feel good, but still concerned about the size of
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: the win because they are going to do whatever they
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: can to cheat.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: But I liked how nervous Ted Cruz was, and that
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: gave me hope. And I think when I was looking,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, I'm like, God, Texas gets us excited
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: like this all the time. You know, every time there's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: an opportunity, we get behind somebody like Beto and then Colin.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: And then, but I was like, well, we're just, it
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: just took us, maybe it's just taking this amount of
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: time to lay the groundwork in the same way in
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: which the Republicans have laid the groundwork for so long
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: with the Heritage Foundation and all their Project 2025 things.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: They're good planners.
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: They're long-term planners.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And it took us three runs, or maybe it'll take
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: us three runs to get a Democrat in there.
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: Maybe.
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: And I'm optimistic, and I'm in my John Ossoff vibe
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: and all of it. But Project 2025— we had it
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: physically in our hands. You could print 900 pages out.
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: That was just the game plan. And then we just
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: stopped talking about it. And that's something that Republicans, and
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: I see this with my colleagues as well, who are
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: very good ambassadors for their politics. When they've got a bone,
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: they never let go of it. They're just relentlessly on
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: message about these things. And it's funny because They think
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: that we are. And I'm like, no, we are all
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: over the fucking map.
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: And we'll also do civil war before we'll do civil
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: war with you. You know, we'll be shouting about the DSA. And,
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: you know, I have major policy issues with where the
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: far left of the party is. Like, I don't want
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: to abolish prisons and things like that. But I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: we'll do a circular firing squad way faster than Republicans will.
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: And they benefit from it.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: Catherine, do we have callers?
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, we absolutely do.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: Let's take a few calls before we let Jessica go today. Okay, awesome.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I have a question first that's sort of a
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: quicker one, and then I've got two callers. So our
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: first question today comes from Bea, and she says, Dear Chelsea,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I grew up in a very conservative Christian home. I've
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: since proudly deconstructed and am very progressive. However, my parents
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: are Trump supporters. During his first presidency, they proudly liked him.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: With this election, they hesitantly voted for him because he
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: was the Republican. For years, our rule has been just
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: don't talk about politics. But I now have two young kids,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and they're very involved with my kids. Now with everything
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: going on, I feel like I can't keep quiet anymore.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: They think the Epstein files are fake. They think ICE
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: is acting appropriately. What do I do with this? Do
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I maintain a somewhat close relationship with my parents and
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: just not talk about politics? Do I let them be
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: involved in my kids' lives to the same extent, unsupervised
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: babysitting and sleepovers?
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Thanks, B.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Well, Jessica.
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: That sucks.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: First of all, pick up Jessica's book. It's called I Disagree.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: And learn how to back up your arguments with facts
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: if you so choose to go down that road, which
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I think, I mean, there's enough statistics in your book
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: to actually forge a real argument with With anyone about
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: this ICE thing, you know, 70% of the people that
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: they've detained.
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: Haven't committed any crimes on American soil, which I think
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: should matter if you're being put in jail or deported
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: when you've contributed. And most of them are paying tax. too,
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: to boot. I mean, the drain on the economy once
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: you kick all these people out is astronomical.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and nobody thinks about it. These people aren't thinking
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: about that at all.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: No.
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: The cruelty is the point, and it has always been
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: the point. But life is long, and family is so important.
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: And I get this question a lot or variations of
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: this question. And it's heartbreaking to me every time that
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: I hear about families fracturing or splitting up in a
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: longer term way over a policy disagreement. And the question
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: then becomes, what if this actually makes you think that
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: there is moral failing here?
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: More than just, oh, we don't see eye to eye
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: on X, Y, or Z issue. But it doesn't sound
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: to me at least from question that she necessarily thinks
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: that there are moral failings here or that her children
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: are in danger, physical danger. It's just what they could hear.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: So I would start with, please don't talk about politics,
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: certainly with my kids, and that I don't want that.
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: I don't want this to become one of those strict
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: environments where it's like, mom, dad, you may not do X, Y,
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: or Z things, but just say we're doing things differently
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: over at my house, and I don't want to hear
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: about that. And to keep in mind that people update
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: and they change. And that one of the most important
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: things I think you can do for those that you
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: care about is to make space for them to change
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: and evolve and to also talk out their beliefs. I
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: think that one of the big problems with political conversations
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: is the over-talking, where I've heard enough, but you only
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: said five words. Let them finish. Sometimes they hang themselves
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: out to dry, which is a fun way to win
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: an argument, where you then say, Yeah. And don't you
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: realize that you just utterly contradicted yourself there? But it
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: also creates an environment where they feel closer to you
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: and more seen by you. And I think that a
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: lot of these folks, like these MAGA parents, and the
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: same can happen in reverse, that part of what they're
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: frustrated about is that they don't think that you're listening
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: to them. And that's all we really want in life, right,
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: is to be heard. And so I really do try
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: to make space for people to be able to tell
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: me how they're feeling, even if it's something that upsets me.
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: And then either locked and loaded in response with the
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: facts and the data. And I do like the soft start,
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: that's what I call it, where you create some connective
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: tissue with someone and how you respond. But there is
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: also a lot of value in just listening and not
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: having a response right away. You're not on the clock
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: all the time and it's your mom, right? You can
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: call her again tomorrow unless she's dying, in which case
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: just Be nice, I think.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: But you should get Jessica's book in case you do
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: want to have these arguments or conversations, I should say,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: because it's a nice lesson in how to make an
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: argument into a conversation. And I love the idea of
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: people asking them to expound, you know, go tell me
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: everything you feel and letting them hang themselves out to
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: dry because in many cases that is what you'll do.
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Our first caller for today is Julie. She says, Dear Chelsea,
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: I've been on a journey of self-love, growth and healing.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: I relate to so much of your story and admire
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: the way you've become such a triumphant leader, pharmacist and
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: advocate for women, especially those of us navigating our 40s
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: and 50s. What I appreciate most is how you give
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: women permission to be authentically themselves, whatever that looks like
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: for them. My question is this. I was raised in
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: a very reactive home, putting it diplomatically. Because of that,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: I've spent much of my life feeling like I needed
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: to defend myself as though there was always a battle
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: waiting around the corner. These days, I'm practicing the idea
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: that not everyone needs to hear my voice, even when
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: someone brings negativity my way. It's definitely not a perfect practice,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: and I still struggle with the urge to share my
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: opinion or respond bluntly. How have you learned to navigate
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: not always sharing your opinion, especially when you feel strongly
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: about something? How do you balance authenticity with knowing when
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: silence is the better choice?
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Julie.
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: Hi, Julie. Hello.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Hi there.
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: Hi.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: This is our special guest. Jessica Tarlov is here with
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: us today.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Hi, Julie.
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: How are you?
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: Good. I've got my ice pack. I'm having a hot flash.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, perfect. So were we, actually. I'll speak for myself.
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: It was hot in here.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: It was hot in here. Thank you for cooling it down,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: by the way. So I hear what you're saying. I mean,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I've mastered the art of not dipping
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: my toe in the water because I feel, and this
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: is more on a political front, I feel like not
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: enough people are saying enough. And I feel like I'm
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: not going to be that kind of person. On a
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: personal front, which sounds like what you're talking, speaking to more.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like you really have to measure and ascertain
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: when you're depleted and when you have time for that.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? And sometimes once you
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: practice the art of not chiming in all the time,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you start to understand when those, you start to be
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: able to discern when those times are appropriate and when
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: they're not. And if it is draining to you, it's
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: a very powerful move to say nothing.
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: I absolutely love that perspective. I think that that's excellent advice.
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: And it also takes away from you and your energy,
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: doesn't it, really, when you're just trying to battle all
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: the time. And I think that's what I'm trying to
• 54:42
  Speaker 6: render right now, for sure.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And I think with relation to the defensiveness, which I'm
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: sure you can relate to, too, once you're defensive, you've
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: kind of already lost the argument.
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, because you're shutting down. You're not open. You're not
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: open to the other person's perspective.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: And it's like it feels really good to be calm
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: in high pressure situations, especially when you're in discord with
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: someone else. And like that's a skill that you can
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: sharpen and sharpen and get better and better at. And
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: it's worth trying, practicing, and, like, really engaging with that.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: And noting, like, writing down after those kinds of interactions
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: how you feel, how it made you feel. And I
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: guarantee you, you're going to feel stronger and more powerful
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: each time you're able to do that without getting defensive
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and just removing yourself. And it's like I'm sitting up
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: straight or just thinking about how I feel when I
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: do it. Because there is a physicality that goes with it.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: You're like, I am strong. I'm confident. I don't need
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: to argue with this person. You know, like you don't
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: need to. And just because of your history of having
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: people attack you or kind of come after you because
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: of past behavior isn't applicable to who you are today.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: So stop acting like it is.
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: That's excellent. And I really love the idea of writing
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: it down and reflecting on it. That's not something I've
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: done or I'm doing. And I think that that will
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: lend itself really well going forward. I think that that's
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: something I'm going to start doing every day.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything you want to add?
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: No, I love that. And I would just say that
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: you could also write something down before you have the conversation.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: Like your talking points. for whatever interaction. And I like
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: to stick to the top three things that I'm going
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: to be mad at myself if I don't convey. And
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: some days I get it out and some days I don't.
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: But feeling secure and that you've been thoughtful in having
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: a conversation with somebody that matters to you because, you know,
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: this isn't about the random person that you're running into, right?
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: Like these are the the real makeup of your life.
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: It's your community. So I always like to be prepared
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: coming in and then the reflecting afterwards, I think is great.
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: And then you can get better for the next time.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: And I wouldn't wish, and Jessica talks about this in
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: her book called I Disagree. Every interaction doesn't define you.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: It's a collection of your interactions. So like, just if, like,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: if you don't nail it one time, that's okay. You're
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: going to get another opportunity and then you're going to
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: get another opportunity with that person or with yourself, you know?
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: So like, You don't have to beat yourself up and
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: kind of self-flagellate if you don't get an A-plus in
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: your mind in, you know, your first outing or your second.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Or if you have, you know, an interaction where you
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: didn't act in your best, like, you know, in your
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: best light or however you want to frame it, like,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: give yourself some grace about it and you'll be more graceful.
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: I think that's so important. And I think as women,
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: we tend to beat ourselves up.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I tend to do that.
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: We all do it.
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: And I think it's so important to do that, to
• 57:47
  Speaker 6: give ourselves grace. Absolutely. And I certainly do that. So
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: I really appreciate that. And I'm going to, I'm going
• 57:53
  Speaker 6: to start doing that. I'm going to be kinder to myself.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: And just start writing that down. I'm going to be
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: kinder to myself. Write that down, you know, download one
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: of those gratitude journals on your phone. I do it
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: every morning, whether I'm in a, especially if I'm in
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a bad mood, because I got to turn the beat around,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Like if I'm feeling negative, I'm like, you better write
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: down all these things that you have and that you're
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: grateful for. So you can, and now I write it
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: in Spanish. So, yeah. Anyway, thank you for calling in.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: You sound Canadian. Are you Canadian?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Vancouver Island, baby. Oh, I love Vancouver Island. Okay, well,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: take care.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Julie.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Appreciate it.
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: Have a great day.
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Well, that was easy. Yeah.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Something that's been, I think you talked about this in
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: your book as well, Jessica, but like taking a beat
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: before responding, like even if it's sleeping on it, like
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: when we get activated, we want to respond right away.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: But like, it actually is really helpful to be like,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: even if you're mad, sleep on it, keep thinking about it,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: and then you actually are more eloquent and you can
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: have a better response.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Reactivity is never a winning game.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: No.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Unless you're playing soccer.
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: Unless you're playing soccer or you're online, where the reactivity
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: is what amplifies your message, right? This idea of, and
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: I think about this, you know, I've never, not that
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: he would really care, but I've never responded to something
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: that Trump posted about me. And it's kind of a policy,
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: you know, you just let it be and sit out there.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: But in general, like, you know, that I do really
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: well online because you're present there and people don't know
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: if they're gonna get a response from you or not,
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: but you're running like a dating service off of your
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: social media. When you say that you're looking through your
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: DMs and stuff like that, you don't expect that Chelsea
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: Handler with many millions of followers is actually, you know,
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: has gotten home from Spanish school and before she heads
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: out is gonna, you know, respond to your DM or
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: your post. And the pressure to be smart and snarky
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: and funny And, you know, to know everything and to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: get it out at warp speed is really intense for people. Like,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: you can't always sleep on it. And sometimes you miss
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: your moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that once
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: you get to a certain position in life or a
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: certain zen about how you're dealing with people, you can
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: be calmer about it. But I understand that pressure, especially
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: from young people. I talk to a lot of college kids,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: early to mid-career people. especially in arts or in marketing
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: and those kinds of areas. And a lot of their
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: life is defined by what their brand is, right, online.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: It's not, you know, everyone's a creator in some way.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: And it's weird for me to even think of myself
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: like that. I'm a research scientist that's on a cable
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: news show.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: With a PhD.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: But, like, I met people. I was at a, you know,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: a fancy book party. And someone that I really admire said,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: came up to me and said, you know, you're one
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: of my favorite content creators. And I was like, fuck. Like, cool,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: because I didn't know you knew who I was. But also,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: I'm mortally offended that that's what I have been reduced to.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: Content creator. I know. And after this is done, I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: will tell you who said it, and you will be like, whoa.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: But he was fresh off of going to Cannes Lions,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 5: where it was all about content creators. So I think
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: he thought it was a compliment. And then the dead
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: look in my eyes— I think he realized that this
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: was not the best foot to start off on. And
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: he was like, I love your podcast.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Pivot quickly.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: We have time for one more.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: We should have time for one more. And this is
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: from Carly. She's a grieving humanitarian. She says, Dear Chelsea,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: this has been one of the worst years of my life.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: And I say that as someone who spent time in
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: a mental hospital, a tale for another time. I spent
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: my career in the humanitarian sector, focusing on sexual violence
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: in countries experiencing war and natural disasters, missing out on
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: a lot of the quote-unquote normal.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Parts of life in the U.S.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: By the time I returned home to New York in 2019,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: I felt out of place, financially stunted, emotionally raw, but
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: proud of the life I'd lived.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: No regrets. Then came 2025.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: The new administration began gutting foreign aid, and like thousands
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: of others, I lost my job overnight. but this wasn't
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: just a normal layoff. My career wasn't just a job.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: It was my identity, my passion, my community. I'm trying
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: to pivot, but I'm 40 and have never worked in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: the US.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: I feel lost.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to grieve and rebuild, but the ground keeps
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: shifting beneath me. I have a loving partner and incredible friends,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: but when I'm alone, I feel paralyzed by anxiety and depression.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: How do I move forward in a world that no
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: longer feels like mine?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Sincerely, Carly.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: Hi, Carly.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: Hi.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: First of all, I'm... Really sorry that you're going through
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: this right now. That sounds very anxiety producing, which you
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: just stated. And just so you know, you're not alone.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: There are millions of people that are feeling the same
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: way that you are. I understand gutting this foreign aid
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and what the destruction that it's caused in this world
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: is just so devastating to even wrap your head around.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even think anybody really even knows
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: the full effects of what has gone on. And we
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: won't know for some time. But to deal with what
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with right now, I think this world is
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: just so stressful to be in. Even when you're thriving,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: it's very stressful. So I think I would just start with, A,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: do you have a therapist?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: I do, yeah.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: I've had therapy for a while, like six years. I
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: met her when I was working in Iraq, actually.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: Oh, great.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Good for you.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, God. Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I would try and remove the things that are causing
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: you the most amount of anxiety. I would try to
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: stop reading the news for a while. It doesn't mean
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: that you're going to be uninformed for your life. You're
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: going to know what's going on in the world. But
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: I would get rid of all of these elements that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: are taking away from you being grounded enough to kind
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: of figure out a path forward. You have a lot
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: to be grateful for. You have a partner. You said
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: you have amazing friends. You're 40 years old. It's like
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that is a great age to start something new.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: So good.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, like it's like a rebirth. 40 is
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: a rebirth and 50 is a rebirth. And then from
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: what I was just with my friend who just turned
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: 60 and she's like, it happens every 10 years. So
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: like instead of thinking like– you know, oh, this is
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: a terrible time for it to be happening. It's actually
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: a great time age-wise for this to be happening in
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: your life, for you to reframe things and to look
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: and see what else is out there that will bring
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: you joy and that will bring you purpose, right?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: Totally. Yeah, I think the main thing that's causing the
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: anxiety is the financial situation. And also, you know, I've
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: never actually worked within the United States, so I've never
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: had a job here. So applying for jobs within the
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: United States, it's like I get so far in the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: process because they're, you know, impressed with my CV and, oh,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: you've worked in all these countries, but I've never worked
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: for a private organization. I've never worked inside the US.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: So mainly what's causing that stress is the financial situation,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: but also due to the fact that I'm really struggling
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: to get a job other than these, you know, consultancies
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: that don't treat you very well, no health insurance and
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: all that stuff. So, I mean, I don't know what
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: advice you can give on that, but.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: Well, is there a scenario where just like for the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: immediate future, you can go get a job where you're
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: working in like retail or apply to a Starbucks or
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: something like that, that isn't going to be your forever job,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: but something that will stabilize your finances in the interim?
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: So that's why I'm doing these kind of consultancies. I'm
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: working on one that ends tomorrow for Palestine. So it's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: just sort of short-term consultancies to, you know, pay the bills,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: but then... I've had a lot of job interviews with
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: the private sector. For example, I'm trying to work on
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: safeguarding with sexual violence or like in the tech industry.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: And yes, I only get so far. And then in
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: the end, they end up selecting someone who has actually
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: worked in that sector. So just kind of feels like
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: I'm stuck in that loop right now. And I don't
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: anticipate the administration changing anytime soon. So, yeah, I'm just
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: sort of like stuck in that situation right now. Not
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: quite sure how to get out of it.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: I think Chelsea has a good point.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: Even if it's an office job or something, sometimes you
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: need to take a job that just is pushing the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: easy button for a little while, that you don't have
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: to use the most brainpower, and then that buys you
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: runway to find the right thing.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely not be married to finding your
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: passion in this moment. I think stability is paramount to
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: your passion in this moment, especially considering your state of mind.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: And everything that's happening, like, I think you should just
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: kind of, like, think about something that's not going to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: be taxing on you and your system. You know, somewhere
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: you can just go to earn a living, even if it's,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, I'm just throwing, nannying, or if
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: it's being around children. I don't like it.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: You don't like kids.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Well then forget about that. Then you're never going to,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: you're really not going to like them after you become
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: a nanny, but just like think of things that aren't
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: going to require the brain power that's going to be
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: taxing on you. And like, I do have somebody, I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: have a very close friend who works in sex trafficking,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: but again, that's going back to your, yeah, she does.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: She does a lot of work in that and I
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: could reach out to her and see if she has anything, but.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. That's my subject.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: So, and I will do that. I will email her
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: as soon as we're done today, but really just think
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: of ways that you can be making some money and
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: don't think of anything as being beneath you. You know,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: there's no reason you can't go into a Starbucks and
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: try to get a job or go into a restaurant
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: and become a server or, you know, That's pretty easy
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: to do and it's good work and you make money.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: And it's actually good to be around a lot of people,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're feeling this way.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, you're right. You could also, well, a couple
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: of things. One, I don't want to send you out
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: of the United States, but I feel like looking around
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: abroad again just to see what's out there because maybe
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: something will pop up where you're like, me and my partner,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: we got to go because this is, you know, I
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: understand there's huge cuts to these kinds of jobs, but
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: the rest of the world isn't as insane as we are.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: So just to check that out. And then also, if
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: you do take one of these jobs, and I think
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: it is so important to some point in your life.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: Like I hostess for a summer because my parents were like,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: you've got to know what it's like to not have
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: a fancy internship or something that you think is on
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 5: the trajectory that you're the path that you're on. You
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: should meet real people and go out in the world.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: But that also then will leave you with time and
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: headspace to organize, if you want, with like-minded people. I mean,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: we have big elections coming out. There are going to
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: be a lot of people who need to be active
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: and on the ground. And there are a lot of
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: people who feel like you, like that the world is
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: against you right now, or at least the government is.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: And seeking them out in different kinds of communities, I think,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: could be really gratifying for you.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Also, people, they're looking for female Uber drivers. They need
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: female Uber drivers. I live in York City.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know if that's a good idea, but.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you could go drive.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: It is hard to drive here.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: It is. I drove in yesterday. I was like, what
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: the fuck am I doing?
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: Or a crazy breed.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: I don't want to get a car.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Well, scratch that idea. But, you know, keep your, like,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: keep your options open and just start looking around and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, is this a place I could work?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: You know, could I work in retail? Could I work as,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: The service industry is a great place to like have
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: a pit stop in between like big career moves. And
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: even though you've never worked in the United States, that
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be held against you. You have such a long
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: resume of working in a very specific field, but you're
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: obviously competent, smart and educated to get those jobs. So like, yeah,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: I think listen to Jessica in terms of don't just
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: cast your net here, especially when this is one of
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: the biggest producers of your anxieties. Right.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: And the situation is not great.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Carly, will you follow up with us in a few months?
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I will.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: You know, if I get a full time job or
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: where I go.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: And actually, Chelsea, I was also thinking we could also
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: potentially connect her with Princess Mabel, who works in like
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: the early.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Child marriage sector.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: Like there's some overlap there maybe.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: So.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: And also just do us a favor. Don't read the news.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: for a little bit.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 6: I try not to.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: Don't.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Don't go online. Try to just limit your social media.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: All of this stuff makes us less happy.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: It's hard because I worked in the Middle East for
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: several years. And so seeing my friends and seeing everything
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: that's going on, it's difficult. So I try not to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: look at it, actually. Yeah.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: And you just need a mental break. And that's totally understandable.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: And it's nothing to be ashamed about. So just do
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: what you need to do in this moment and in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: the coming months. Just really take care of yourself so
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: you can get yourself on track and then you can
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: reassess how you want to deal with the world that
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: we're living in and how you want to help, you know,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: in the midterms. And if you can go volunteer somewhere
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: or for someone's campaign that you're excited about or a
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: female candidate, you know what I mean? Like stuff like that.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: And that's going to bring some like vivacity back into
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: your life. I promise. It just takes a little bit
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: of time. So be patient with yourself.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah. We'll let you know.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Keep us posted, Carly.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Take care.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: So Kaylee says, I'm newly single after the end of
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: a 22-year relationship. My ex and I had been together
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: since we were 16 years old. And now that I'm dating,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: I'm having the best time so far. I recently started
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: dating a man who is a staunch Republican and very
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: liberal and a registered Democrat. He's intelligent, fun, extremely handsome,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: and amazing in the sheets. I hope to continue to
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: see where this relationship goes or at least have some
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: great sex for a few months. How can I find
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: ways to respect his beliefs and not allow myself to
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: be dismissive of his opinions? I'd also love to be
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: able to give him a book to read that may
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: help him understand my perspective and respect my people-first mentality.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: Any recommendations, Kaylee?
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Well, you could start with Jessica's book.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: There you go.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 6: Actually, yeah.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Sure. It's called I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: And just say, I'm trying really hard to master the
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: zen about it. But I will say, if he hasn't
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: read Regime Change by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, which
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: exposes how batshit crazy Trump is and the whole administration
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: and the Republican Party writ large, give that to him.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: Deeply researched. Takes you in the situation room. You'll see everything.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: He'll be dispelled of any ideas he has about the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: war in Iran or the Epstein files. And maybe that'll
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: make him understand your perspective a little bit more.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: That reminds me. Did you read the book The Red Notice?
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Have you read that?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: Yes. Okay.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: Browder, Bill Browder. Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: I sent that to my Russian sister-in-law. Because I was like,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: it's really indisputable when you read that book how fucked
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: up Russia is and how fucked up Putin is. Yeah,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: she's a Putin sympathizer. She loves Putin. My sister-in-law.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 5: That is so nuts.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not speaking to that part of the family. I
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: honestly can't take it. I just can't. But anyway, that
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: reminds me of that. But regime change is a great recommendation.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: That's a great recommendation.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: Red notice is awesome and easier to read and a
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: lot shorter.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: But not really applicable to this situation. But also, I
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: would also say if you're having a good time and
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: you're having great sex with somebody, don't even bring up
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the politics. Just have a good time and know that
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: this is not long term. And that's the greatest thing
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: about being older and single is that nothing is a commitment.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: You can do whatever you want and just have a
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: good time and have lots of sex. The world might
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: end any moment. So I hope you're having a good
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: time while that happens.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 5: Also, if you bring up politics right after he finishes,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: he's going to agree with everything that you say. And
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: then I was like, should I say it comes in?
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: But I'm here already. But you know what I mean?
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: And then the next day you can be like, actually,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: we agree completely on all of this. And I'm so
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: glad that you've seen the light.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. Well, Jessica, this was so fun. I'm so
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: happy to meet you.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: This is a dream. Thank you for having me. And also, like,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: you really read my book.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 6: I did.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: Of course. Because that doesn't happen all the time.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: You know, and people are looking for signs in your eyes, like,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: telegraph to me what you said. And my book isn't,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: you know, a normal political pundit book. So I'm like,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: you actually have to engage with it if you want
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 5: to understand, like, how, you know, fucked up I am
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: about my dad and things like that, which is what
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 5: I want to talk about. So thank you for the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: care and thought of this. And just for you, you're
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: very cool. And Catherine, it's cool to meet you.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, thanks. Likewise.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you. And also to our listeners, the book is
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: called I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. And it
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: really is not a political book. It is a great
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: book about having disagreements. and Discord without losing your shit.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And I have a lot of respect for that. It's
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: taken me a long time to even get close to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: that zip code of disagreement. So it's really, I know
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that listen to this podcast are
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: dealing with that. So I really would encourage you to
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: get yourself a copy of the book. And it's refreshing.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah. And so are you. So thank you.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to DearChelseaPodcast
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: at gmail.com.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 5: Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartMedia.
• 1:15:21
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• 1:15:24
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• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: and engineered by Brandon Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. Find
• 1:15:32
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• 1:15:36
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