Latest / Cosmic Peach / THROWBACK THURSDAY! JACK THE RIPPER

Transcript

THROWBACK THURSDAY! JACK THE RIPPER · Cosmic Peach

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Throwback Thursday.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: So these are.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Some of the oldies but goodies, the classics, and they
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: are some of the episodes that are probably in the
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: back of the catalog that you haven't managed to listen
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to yet. So, Just a warning, some of my thoughts, feelings,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: opinions may have changed since the recordings of these episodes.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Doesn't make them any less interesting. So, as an evolving
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: human being, I may say something in these episodes that
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily agree with today. But, these episodes are
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the classics, and I just thought I would do a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: little something fun for us. So, welcome and enjoy Throwback Hello, everyone.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You know what it is. You are listening to the
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Cosmic Peach podcast. And I have returning champ and your
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: absolute favorite, my cousin Brian from the Cleveland Shwell podcast. Brian,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: how are you?
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I'm good, governor. Let's get ourselves to London.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: So you're in character already.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: I'm in character. I'm good. I'm excited about this one.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: I hope all the Ripperologists showed up because you're going
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: to need to come with your A-game. And I'm going
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: to tell you guys this came to the right place
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: because by the end of this show, we are going
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: to reveal the true identity of Jack the Ripper. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: figured it out. Yeah. Come fight me in the comments.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: I dare you.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I might fight you. It might be a fight to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: the death on this one.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I like that. I like that. I like a good fight.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: We got to figure out who Jack the Ripper is.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: We can catch him before he dies.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Shut up. You're a badass researcher. I'm a badass researcher.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So this is really going to be a fight to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the actual truth because we did not compare notes this
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: whole time. I just said, go research Jack the Ripper
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and then we'll compare notes on the episode.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Yep. Yep. And you guys know my approach. I'm, I'm Mr.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Skeptic and I'm not going to say that there's not
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: holes in every single story because if there was no holes, then, uh,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: This would be a case closed. But I think I
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: got a pretty damn good explanation. And I think you
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: guys are going to appreciate it. You're going to learn
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: some stuff about these killings and Jack the Ripper today.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Before we dive into our research, how solid are you
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: that you've pegged the guy?
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: 90%? I don't want to give away too much.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Because it's... So... When I go over why I picked
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: what I picked, right now a lot of you guys
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: are sitting on a fence, right? And on that fence,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: you're like, oh.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: I love Cosmic Peach, and I believe anything she has
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: to say.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go over here. Well, guess what? There's
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: plenty of room over here on my side of the
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Cleveland Schwill Fest. You can spread your legs out. We
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: can clang a beer together. You're all about to be
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: on Team Bride. Whatever. Come on over, everybody.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: My listeners are pretty good about giving me their own
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: theories as well.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: Okay, good.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: So maybe it'll be a hybrid mix, but maybe we've
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: pegged the same guy.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: That is true. We actually have no idea.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: No idea.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: If we pegged the same guy, then it's obviously not
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: to eject the rip-rip.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, case closed. Case closed. closed.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Now, before we jump into the biscuits and gravy, I
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: want to go over something that you and I both
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: have to agree on and can't be refuted, which is
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: some of the victims, how they were found, who is
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Jack the Ripper. And just for the listeners who You
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: probably already know, but Jack the Ripper was an unidentified
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: serial killer active in and around London in the impoverished
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Whitechapel District. And this all took place in England in
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the autumn of 1888. Right. In both criminal files and
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: contemporary journalistic accounts, the killer was called the White Chapel
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Murderer or the Leather Apron. Did you find this?
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: So he was Jack the Ripper in those letters?
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: The Dear Boss letter. The Dear Boss.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: There was a letter called Dear Boss. Sometimes you'll hear
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: it called the Dear Boss letter. And then it was...
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: signed Jack the Ripper. There was another one that was
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: sent with what was believed to be a human kidney.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: That one was signed from hell. And that's where you
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: get that name of the movie that Johnny Depp was
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: in from hell. But we can talk about the letters
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: later because I personally don't believe any of them were
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: written from Jack the Ripper. So that might be something
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: that we get. Or the real Jack the Ripper.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: The real Jack the Ripper. But at the time, I
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: guess they were referring to them as like Whitechapel murders
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: or leather apron murders, which is.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the leather apron thing came from prostitutes at the time.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: They they thought that they knew there was a guy
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: going by the name of leather apron and he was
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: roughing up prostitutes for asking for their money. And that
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: was going on for like a whole year. So he became,
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: the nickname Leather Apron became a major suspect for the killings.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: And he was actually arrested. I don't know if you
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: know this. They found the real Leather Apron. But the
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: newspapers had been putting out, hey, we got to find
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: this Leather Apron guy. The guy that went by Leather Apron,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I'd have to look up his real name. He ends
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: up getting arrested, but had extremely strong alibis for where
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: he was at during the murders. And he was raped.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And because I didn't see who the real leather apron was,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: this is not going to be my guy.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: But if you could, Brian, did you research who the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: victims were?
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, not only did I research it, I have. You
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: have notes on.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: So can we start with. Let me ask you this
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: question first, because if there's any riparologists out there. They
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: may be thinking this already, and this is up for debate.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: But there was a group of files. They were called
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: the Whitechapel murder files for that year. And the reason
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: why some people attribute 11 deaths to Jack the Ripper
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: is there was 11 murders that year under the Whitechapel files.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: But most people believe that there were five, what they call,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: canonical victims, right? The canonical five. And I personally think
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: that there might've been a couple more. I'll tell you
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: why when we get there. But the main focus is
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: on five particular victims. So I don't know what you, yeah,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: you have the canonical five. I think one of the
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: women that was killed before it was outside of white
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: chapel was I think that was a Jack the Ripper.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I may have found something similar to that.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. So the canonical five Ripper victims are Mary Ann Nichols,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes, and Mary Jane Kelly.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Do you have the details on each death?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I even have details on these women, kind of like
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: their upbringing and their lives, what they've done.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: So let's kind of go in order. I'll do Marianne
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Nichols and then you can tell me about her life.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Okay. And actually, even before we do that, I want
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: to set a scene real quick.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Because sometimes it's hard for people to. take themselves and
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: put themselves in a place. Because when you watch these
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: documentaries and things like that, I always like to call bullshit.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: And the bullshit that you need to call is these
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: streets were gas lamp lit. And those gas lamps went
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: out at 11 o'clock. Now, unless somebody has a candle
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: lit or running around with a torch, people can't see
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: shit in the dark. In the dark. You're going by moonlight.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: But the problem with that area, and if you look
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: at the newspapers of that time, even though these take
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: place kind of in the summer, it was cold and
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: it was rainy. And they were, most of these murders
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: were Minimum past midnight. Most of them took place three 30,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: four 30 AM. So I want to talk about that
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: extreme overcrowdedness of that city. There's people everywhere at every
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: hour of the day. There was a million people that
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: lived in that area. Okay. Poverty disease, extreme famine. Most
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: people were not eating. Um, A huge influx of Jewish
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: immigrants had just come in. And that helps to paint
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: a picture of maybe some of the reason why the
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Jews were getting blamed and there was anger towards Jews.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Newspapers were running crazy with these stories. They knew back
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: then that if it bleeds, it leads. And they soaked
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: up every dollar they could out of Jack the Ripper.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Let me just put it right there and then. And basically,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: these vigilante slash vigilance groups started picking up all over
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: the place. When you hear about some of these letters
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: that are sent, they're not even sent to the police.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: They're sent to vigilance groups. The From Hell letter sent
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: to a vigilance group by to a guy named George Lucas.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: That's why he didn't even turn it into the police
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: for two days. So you've got all this craziness going on.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: So fresh food is hard to come by. Most women.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: if they became estranged from their husbands, because everybody's drinking alcohol,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: it's raining every day. You're living this miserable existence with
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: basically no food. Most of the homes had broken windows
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: and it's cold. Nine people living to a one room house.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: That's not even heated sitting there in the living room.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: They're all losing their minds. They don't have much money.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: If a woman dies, needed to get extra money. Let's
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: say she laundered clothes during the day. She probably had
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: a drinking problem and was out drinking at night. Gin
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: was the drink of choice because it was very cheap
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: and everybody would go to these pubs and they drink
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: their entire night away. But you have disgusting facilities where
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: nobody's using contraception. So unorthodox abortions are going on all
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: over the place. People are dying of infections or poison.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: STDs are running rampant. Doctors are extremely expensive. So most
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: of the women are not using them. People are sleeping
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: on the floor, broken windows, flea and insect covered environments,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: damp and extremely cold. And then even the working conditions
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: were horrible. But if we go into even how crazy
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: the police stations are at this time, police stations, they're
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: not used to dealing with serial killers. They don't even
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: know what serial killers are. And what's crazy, and a
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: lot of people don't know, even though there was a
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: lot of crime at this time, murders were rare. If
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: you go to 1887, there were, I think, a total
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: of 12 murders for the entire year. So when you
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: start hearing about five, six murders in the span of
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: a few months, this spooked the hell out of these people.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: And the way the streets were built, like you had
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: these police constables that would walk all over the place.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: But some of these areas that this stuff was going
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: on in, police were too scared to go down these alleyways.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: They didn't want to go down these. Now, some of
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: the areas that Jack the Ripper were in were very
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: heavily patrolled. And you'll find that out when we go
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: over the cases. But these police, the structure and detectives,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: they don't really have a clue what they're doing. They're
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: not used to this sort of thing. It was hard
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: to find people because of the narrow alleyways and all
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: these different places that people could escape from. But when
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: they did these cases, evidence always ends up missing or
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: they didn't know how to handle evidence for crime scenes properly.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: They didn't know how to tape them off, how to
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: extract evidence. They're not getting fingerprints. They're not doing DNA.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: They're not doing blood samples. And the officers just aren't
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: equipped to deal with things like this. They lose evidence
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: when it's put away in custody. Like, they just screw
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: everything up. So that's painting a picture, too, for where
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go later with my suspect.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Your suspect.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: My suspect. So I wanted to paint the picture of
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: the way the Whitechapel area was. Extremely poor, insect-ridden, prostitution,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: disease everywhere. nine people to a room. Most people are
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: drinking because gin is cheap. It's one of the few
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: things that people can use to escape this disgusting depravity
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: world that they're living in. And that's it. That's all
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I'm going with. I'm painting the picture.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: See, Brian, you singed my eyebrows with that already. I'm
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: feeling the fire. I'm feeling the fire.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And I always... Of course, you know, on my show,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I have to go occult with some of my information.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: So if people have followed my podcast at all, I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: always point out how with occultism, there's weird ties to
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the number eight. So for example, people who are born
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: in August, things that happen on an eight day, things
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: that take place, um, deaths in August or anything to
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: do with the number eight. And the first thing that
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: stuck out to me is that this occurred autumn. So
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: we could maybe assume that it started in August and
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: not only did it start in August, but it's in
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: the year 1888. So I do find it significant that
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: we have some numbers sticking out right off the top. Now,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go through the list of victims and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: we'll see if we can pull out any other occult
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: significance from their deaths. And you can tell us a
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: little bit about each victim's background. Now, I first have
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Mary Ann Nichols. Throat was severed by two deep cuts,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: one of which completely severed all the tissue down to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the vertebrae. Her vagina had been stabbed twice, and the
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: lower part of her abdomen was partially ripped open by
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a deep, jagged wound causing her bowels to protrude. Several
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: other incisions inflicted to both sides of her abdomen had
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: also been caused by the same knife, and each of
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: these wounds had been inflicted in a downward, thrusting manner.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: She was essentially gutted like a fish. And then almost decapitated.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That's overkill. What are your thoughts on how she was murdered?
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: So this is a tough... If you're asking me, like... Well,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: I'll give you this opinion. There's conflicting opinions... by the
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: professionals at the time who saw the body, some professionals
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: will go, oh, it looks like this person had surgical knowledge.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: And then the next person's like, no, they're a freaking
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: hack that just cut up bodies. I personally go with
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: they're a hack that cut up bodies. This is a
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: person who hates women.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Obviously.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Or a particular woman.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I don't go with the medical. I don't go with
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the doctor theory. I do in a way, but I
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: don't in a way because this there's a reason they
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: call him Jack the Ripper. It wasn't because he was
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: very delicately and very perfectly cutting specific things. Like, oh,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: they always cut perfectly across the jugular or something. You'd
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: have to have medical training to know where these arteries. No,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: it was literally like stab, stab, slice, rip in the vagina,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: cutting the crotch out, cutting the bowels out. Like, this
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound like somebody who has any type of, like,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: plan to the... murder like i'm going to perfectly dissect
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: this person and it doesn't sound like that to me
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: it sounds sloppy almost.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Like i'm gonna cut this person open and see what
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: i can get yeah i'll take something out of it
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: i mean and as you as we go over these
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: victims what what a lot of you will see is
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: that that each body's in a varying state but i
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: think when you When this individual had time with the victim,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: he would get even more and more gruesome. So there's...
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I want to go over finding the body because this
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: is very important for.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Of Marianne Nichols yeah okay.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: So for Marianne Nichols let me just read a little
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: story about this and this is going to tie into
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: some things I talk about later okay So it's 3.30 a.m.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: and there's this guy, his name's Charles Cross. And he
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: leaves his house to go to work because he has
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: a 40-minute walk to work every day, this Charles Cross.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: And he's walking these streets every day. He gets by
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: and he's heading down a particular road. And as he
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: approaches this particular boarding school, he notices this dark bundle
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: lying around. in a gateway opposite the side of the street.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: So at the first cross, he wants to see what
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: this bundle is. And he, it looks like something's been
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: discarded there. So he looks down and he's like, Oh
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: my gosh, this is a body. He sees it's in
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: the form of a woman and he can't tell if
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: she's dead or drunk. And he stopped there in his tracks.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: He's unsure of what to do next. And he hears
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: these footsteps approaching and he turns, he sees this guy,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Robert Paul walking towards him and they come out, he
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: comes over and there's a woman lying on the pavement.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: The two men, they step over the road and they
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: stoop down over the prostitute. They see her lying there
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: on her back. This is really crazy, guys, when you
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: start hearing this shit. I'm about to say. So they
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: grab her hand. All right. And they're like, oh, she's
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: extremely cold. And I'm sitting there like, dude, that shit.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: First of all, let me tell you something. I could
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: be talking to a woman. right in her face. And
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: she can be as alive as anything. And if I
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: touch her hand, she feels like she just stepped out
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: the motherfucking grave. So I don't know what these, grab
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: her hand to see if she's alive. It was the
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: stupidest goddamn thing ever. So then the other guy, I
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: have the cold hands. You are not alone. Every woman
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: out there right now, their hands are ice cubes. So
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: he grabs the hand to figure out if she's, you know, warm.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And What's strange about that to me. And then he like,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: here's a breath. Now you think about this. He had
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: heard a breath come from the chest. You guys, if
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: he was just there and heard this breath, they must
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: have just missed the kill. Her throat was completely slashed
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: to the point. And I want a lot of people
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: to know this. When you hear about these victims, the
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: people in the area, when they talk to witnesses, people
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: never heard anything. And there's people all over the place.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: There was police constables walking all over this area. Somebody
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: would have screamed. They would have at least been in
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: shouting range or heard something, any kind of tussle. Nobody
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: ever hears anything. And it's believed that he strangled the
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: victims first to the point where they pass out. And
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: then he'd slit their throat. But think about the amount
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: of blood that they should have been in. When they
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: kneeled over. These guys, they leave. Both of them leave
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: the scene. They say, oh, we better go find a
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: police constable. They don't have any blood on them. They
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: don't have nothing. They find this body and they say,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: we're going to work. If we see a police constable
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: on the way, we'll stop and get him. Now, a
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: police constable happens to be walking by a little bit later.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: His name's Police Constable Neal. And he arrives on the
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: scene and discovers the body. And when he kneels down,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: he's in a pool of blood and he's covered in
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: blood all over.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're saying inconsistencies.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, wait till I go into my stuff later. Police
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Constable Neal was in a big old pool of blood.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: You would have to, Brian.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: With the throat slit.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: You slice the throat open and gutted somebody like a fish,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: you're going to be, there's going to be blood like rolling.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Now remember, she's lying on her back. So they didn't
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: want to turn her over or anything. Her skirt was
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: pulled up, which was something that was very common with
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: the victims of the Ripper. The skirt being pulled up
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: and her lying there like in a specific spot where
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: her back's facing people. So she's on her stomach. So
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: he may not have seen that if they didn't want
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: to pick up the body. But remember, Charles Cross is
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: the one who says, no, we shouldn't disturb this body.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: We're not picking her up. Then they decide they're going
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: to go walking off. So this police constable, he notices,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: you know, he flashes his lantern down. He sees her
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: throat's cut. He runs off. They go get a doctor
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: who pronounces her dead. He pronounces life extinct at 4 a.m.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: When he touches her leg, it's still warm. He's saying
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: the woman died 30 minutes ago. Guess what? Guess who
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: was just standing by the body 30 minutes ago? Guys,
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: start putting these pieces together for me. We can go
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: on to the next victim. I'll keep going on what
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: I think happens as we move forward. Right. Come on.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You're trying to sabotage me. I know your ass and
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: you trying to sabotage me. How do we know that they...
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Somebody heard a breath. That obviously wasn't true. Because her
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: throat was slashed.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's... I heard a breath and her chest moved.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: No, bullshit.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: That's what they said. That's what they said. Of course,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: let's get... And when I get into this later, they gave...
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross gave the wrong name, his wrong address to
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: the police. He gave all... wrong information, which they later
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: found out was false. But we can get into that later.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to entertain you right now. Next victim.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Annie Chapman.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: The throat was severed again by two deep cuts. Her
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: abdomen had been cut entirely open and with a section
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: of the flesh from her stomach being placed upon her
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: left shoulder, and another section of skin and flesh, plus
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: her small intestines, being removed and placed above her right shoulder.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Chapman's autopsy also revealed that her uterus and sections of
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: her bladder and vagina had been removed. Your thoughts on
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Annie Chapman.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Well, again, we're talking about another prostitute. We're talking about
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: somebody who lived a very nomadic existence. Didn't know where
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: she was going to get her, you know, where she's
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: going to be sleeping week to week. And this is
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: a very common thing. And I want people to understand
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: something about these prostitutes. Why it's such a good idea
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: to If you're a serial killer to go after them,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: because guess who knows the darkest corners of every alley
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: that nobody's ever going to see. Take me. They lead
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: you to the best place to kill them. They know
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: all the best places to get killed because they're trying
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: to be out of the sight of. of the police
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: constables and everybody else.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, but do you think that this is happening on
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: the street? Because I had a tiny little moment of
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: skepticism that he would be able to do all this
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: removing of organs right there on the street.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, a lot of times you just cut those
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: you know, he cut open and just throw the intestines
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: either by the feet or over the shoulder and just
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: slashing things up. You know, when you're, they believe, I
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: think his knife was like eight to 12 inches long, sharp, deep. Just,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: but also, you know, it's like, you have to think too.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: People kept going, well, how did he cover up all
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: the blood? Why is it blood spurting out? And I want,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: you guys to think about this if he killed just
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: the same way if he asphyxiated them first if he
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: strangles them first that heart ain't pumping no more so
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: when you go after the throat you're not getting those
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: giant pumps of blood that are shooting the blood out
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: as far and the fact that if he removed his
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: jacket it being super cold in London and rainy at
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: that time when he goes to leave he puts his
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: jacket back on He's covering up anything that he may
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: have gotten on himself. And it's dark as fuck. Let's
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: face it. Dark as fuck.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: It's dark as fuck.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: It's dark as fuck. And I also have something I'll
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: add later to why I think he could get away
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: with some of that. But I mean, I have a
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: little timeline of what happened leading up to her death
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: and what people saw. Her actual death. Let me see.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: What time did she die?
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I don't have the time of death, but I will,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: on that note, mention I do find occult significance that
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of these murders happened around 3 a.m. the
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: witching hour. Okay. I think anybody can agree with that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: That's pretty significant.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: And I have a reason why those happen that don't
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: have occult significance.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll just have to argue with each other then.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, we will.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: What else do you have on Annie Chapman?
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Annie Chapman. So a guy named John Davis is the
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: one who found her mutilated body. And it was at
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: 29 Hanbury Street, right? So let's go up to what's
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: leading up to that. 5 p.m., same day, September, well,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: she's found on September 8th, 6 a.m. Okay, so the
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: sun had just come up, which her body's actually found.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: But the day before, 5 p.m., Amelia Palmer meets this
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: woman on Dorset Street. Annie tells her she's too ill
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: to do anything. So she returns a short time later
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: and Annie was still there, told her that she must
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: do something to get some money or she's not going
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: to have a place to stay. So now she's like,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I got to go off and prostitute myself. So 1130,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Annie turns up, sees her on Dorset Street and asks
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: if she can sit in the kitchen. And she says,
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: that's fine. At 135, she went to the office of
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: the deputy attorney. Timothy Donovan, and she explains that she
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: had no money to pay for her bed that night.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: He told her that if she can't pay, she can't stay.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: So she leaves. She vows to return shortly with money,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: urging him, just keep the bed open for me. I'll
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: be back. So we know at 135, somebody's seen her alive.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: 135 a.m. This is the last person that probably seen
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: her alive. It's 530 a.m. Miss Elizabeth Long's walking along
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Hanbury Street. When she passes Annie Chapman talking to a
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: man directly outside number 29 Ambury Street, she hears the
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: man say, will you? And Annie replied, yes. 6 a.m.,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: she's found dead.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: So you think it's this guy?
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Well, nobody knows who that guy is. All that they
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: hear is. But you also got to remember, too, the
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: crazy thing about this time is that this story was
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: so big. People were seeking attention back then the same
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: way people seek attention today. And you'll notice that if
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: you actually start reading into a lot of witness testimonies,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: not only do they start conflicting each other, but the
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: same witness will start saying completely different things. Then they
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: get put in the newspaper. Then they change their story.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Then they change their story again. It's so common. But
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: do you think they're just.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Trying to get their 15 minutes back?
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like people writing letters for no reason. I mean,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: they got hundreds of letters from people claiming to be
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Jack the Ripper. Mm-hmm. And even to this day, and
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: I'll get into it later when we hear about some
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: of the theories, you got diaries popping up claiming that
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: somebody's Jack the Ripper. You got somebody writing a book
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: in 1940 claiming that somebody's Jack the Ripper. You got people,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: and they're doing that for notoriety and attention today.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: So it adds, you know, you're just adding more chaos
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: and confusion into something that was already chaos and confusion.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: But you had, Brian, about like the Zodiac Killer. This
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: happened with the Zodiac Killer. There were letters supposedly written
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: by the person themselves. I do believe it was the
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: actual murderer writing in letters as Zodiac.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: But in this case, I'm not sure.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: It's definitely not all 600 of them.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: No.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: The thing that really bothered me about most of those letters,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: even the one where they send a kidney, is... How
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: did we know?
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: They didn't have DNA testing back then. How did they
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: even know that was that person's kidney?
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: A lot of the DNA testing that you hear about today,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: like there was one where this woman wrote a book
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: off of a They found a Shaw that they believe
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: had Jack the Ripper DNA on it, which was debatable
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: at first. And then the DNA was debatable, right? But
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: they were like, oh, no, we found all this DNA
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: and we traced it back and it's this person. And then, like,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: when experts actually started breaking it down, people were like,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: this thing's so goddamn contaminated over the last 150 years.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Give me a break.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Get it out of my fucking face. Like, it's garbage.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: It's garbanzo beans. You just went out for a second
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: helping a garbanzo beans. Get the fuck out of here.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: You know, you just can't go off of this stuff.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: And they wrote a book on it. And what are
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: they really doing? They're profiting off of it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Yes. It's just another moneymaker.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I get it. I mean, it's a very
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: interesting mystery. People are attracted to this. They still do
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Jack the Ripper tours down in London right now. You
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: can go to where every victim's found.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, they do.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: And only six sons of bitches would do it. When
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: are we leaving? I'll go with all you cosmic beats, motherfuckers.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I'll go with it. Just tell me when we're going
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: to catch the plane. When's the ripper tour?
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing my flask. No.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Big Ben, where's the ripper tour at? What time does
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: that start? Changing the guard my ass. Is this where
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Mary Nichols was all cut up?
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's go on to our next victim. So, actually,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I have two in one. I have Elizabeth Stride and
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Catherine Eddowes were both killed in the early morning hours
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: of Sunday....
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Within 45 minutes of each other.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, on September 1888, again with the 888. In the
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: case of Stride, the death was caused by a single
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: clear cut incision measuring six inches across her neck, which
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: had severed her left carotid artery and her trachea before
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: terminating beneath her right jaw. The absence of any further
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: mutilations to her body has led to uncertainty as to
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: whether Stride's murder was committed by the Ripper. But now,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: in the case of Edo's, her throat was severed from
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: ear to ear and her abdomen ripped open by a long, deep,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and jagged wound before her intestines had been placed again
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: over her right shoulder, with a section of intestine being
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: completely detached and placed between her body and left arm.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: The left kidney and the major part of Edo's uterus
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: had been removed, and her face had been disfigured, with
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: her nose severed, her cheeks slashed, and cuts measuring a
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: quarter of an inch and a half an inch through
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: both of her eyelids. a triangular incision pointed towards Edo's eye.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And she had also had carvings on her cheeks, which
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I saw this in another documentary. It was like a
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: V shape.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Yes. They were under the eyes.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: V shape under the eyes. Yeah.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: What do you think of Edo's in stride?
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: So the first victim, her throat getting cut that deep.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I do think it was Jack the Ripper.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Okay. But I think he was interrupted.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: And I think he took off. There's a guy, his name,
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Louis Dim Schultz. And he drove a pony cart. And
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: I think as that pony cart was pulling up, he
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: could hear it. And it spooked him. And he's like,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: I'm out of here. Walks 45 minutes. Now, What's interesting
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: about that other victim, the one that really got- Edo. Edo's, she's,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: as that throat's getting slit, she's leaving prison. She's leaving jail. What?
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: She was just leaving jail. Earlier that day, she was
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: so drunk, she was acting like a fire truck in
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: the town square, making fun of people, okay? So they
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: locked her up. She slumped over and.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: She was so drunk- They put Eddowes in the drunk tank.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. She gets put in there because she was acting
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: a fool. She slumped over, fell over, like basically passed
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: out in public after acting like this fire truck. Everybody's
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: laughing at her. She gets out. The last word she says,
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: she looks over to a cop or to a police
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: constable and says, have a good night, you old cock.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: That was her last words.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Be careful what you say out there, kids. Because they
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: say your face is going to freeze that way. Just
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: be careful what you last words are, motherfuckers.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: So she's looking at this police guy.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: And he's just like okay bitch all right here we
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: go again go act like a fire truck somewhere so
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: she leaves that's the last time anybody ever hears anything
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: from her which is you know later on that day
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: obviously we we know what happens and she's hacked to
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: pieces and But yeah, she did prostitution work and all
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: that stuff as well. And she was just unfortunate to
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: So nobody saw this one?
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: No.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: No witnesses, nothing to this Eddowes?
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: Let me double check if I see anything that I
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: wrote down. She was seen with a man, three Jewish men.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Or three Jewish men saw her with a man.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Three Jewish men saw her with a man.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah. And they were like, I guess, oh, they
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: were kind of, oh, this is what happened. So, oh,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: that's interesting. So they see her with a man and
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: they're like really going to town, like making out. And
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: one of the guys says, I don't like going home
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: by myself when I see these sorts of characters about.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: And I guess there's people all over. So there was
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: always somebody seeing something. Let me see if there's something
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: particularly interesting about, let me see. There's just a police
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: constable found the body at 144. Okay.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. So then I guess we can move on to
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Mary Jane Kelly, our second Mary.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: This one, ladies and gentlemen, if you're weak of heart,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: just go ahead and pause and Go about five minutes
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: ahead in the episode because you don't want to exist.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is Mary Jane Kelly, who was discovered lying
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: on the bed in the single room where she lived
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: at 13 Miller's Court. Her face had been hacked beyond
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: all recognition. Her throat was severed down to the spines.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: And the abdomen almost completely emptied of its organs. Her uterus, kidneys,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: and one breast had been placed beneath her head. And
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the other organs from her body were placed beside her foot.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: And then sections of her abdomen and thighs... placed upon
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: a bedside table. The heart was missing from the crime scene.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: This is the most brutal of.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: All of them. There was belief that when that was done,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: one of the doctors claimed he must have spent three
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: hours with her.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Had to.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Packing her up.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: And when they came to find the body, I'd have
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: to look up the guy's name who found the body.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: She had not been paying. Similar to a lot of
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: the other women that we hear about, she had been
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: having trouble paying her rent. She had that one room.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: And the guy who owned the room sent one of
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: his men over to collect from her in the morning.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: And he's knocking on the door. He's knocking on the door.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: And nobody's answering, obviously. Now, like I talked about before,
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: the condition of these rooms, there was a rag stuck
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: in where one of the window panes should have been.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: It was a broken window pane. So he pushed the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: rag out to see if she was in there. And
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: he saw the body in that state. And he said
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: the eyes were still in there in the head, staring
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: at him. He could see the fucking terror in her eyes,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: he says. It freaked him the fuck out. Now, here's
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: what's crazy about things at that time, guys. There's Julie
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: laughing about this. I think I found the motherfucking rapper.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: The eyes were still in the head.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like she just got killed.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: That is legit terrifying, though.
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: And what's crazy about this, though. At the time, there
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: was a belief. I can't remember the name that they
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: gave it, but there was a belief because photography was
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: still pretty young. You guys, there's an actual picture of
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: this woman, okay? There's photographs of some of these women
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: that they took to try to get identities, but they
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: went in and took a picture of her. And you
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: can see the state of the body. It's pretty cray-cray,
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: all right? But they would take pictures of the eyes
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: up close because there was a belief. Do you want
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: to know why? The belief was your last image was
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: burned into the retina of the eyes. So they were
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: trying to take pictures of the eye to get the
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: identity of the killer, thinking she saw the killer with
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: her last vision. So that was something they did at
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: that time. And they would take pictures of these eyes
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: and then try to figure out who Jack the Ripper
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: was and get an identity based off the picture. Now, obviously,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: it didn't work, but they were grasping at straws at
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: that point.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: That's medieval.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, well, I mean, it was. I mean, the times
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: were kind of medieval.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Break it down. What was going on? I mean, what
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: I did mention is I can't remember which one of
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: the killings it was. But there was a clean leather
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: apron left next to one of the bodies. And what's
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: funny about that is that sparked a huge outrage against
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: the Jewish community. There was also a little piece of
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: apron that wasn't leather that was found with blood on
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: it in a doorway. And above it was something written
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: about Jews. Jews. Yeah.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: But Jews was spelled wrong.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what some people said, but the reality is
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: that was... I can't remember. That actually is a correct
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: spelling for a specific....
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I saw that too. I saw that too because I
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: went looking for it.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Now, do you have any additional information you want to
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: lay on the line before I ask you about my
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: first suspect?
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I want to go over suspects that I know
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: are garbanzo beans.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: What would you consider suspects are garbanzo beans then?
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: You want me to go over some garbanzo beans?
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe I have a couple in my suspect list and
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: we can just toss those out.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, give me one memento and I will bring
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: them up. I have a whole suspects list that I
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: thought was fun because there's a lot of suspects and
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I'll go over why I think They're garbanzo beans or
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: they're not garbanzo beans. So the first one we talked,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: we already tapped into why Leather Apron. I don't think
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Leather Apron was it because he was arrested. It wasn't
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: a big part of the deal. There was a guy
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: named Montague John Druitt, and he was somebody who whose
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: body was found shortly after what they think was the
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: last ripper, the canonical last ripper. And the family was like, no,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: he was a sexual deviant. He had these horrible, he
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: had these horrible thoughts. He did these horrible things. And
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: it's crazy. Right after this dude's dead.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: No more rippers.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: No murders. But what's, But when you really start to
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: break it down, you find out that the family really
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: didn't think it that way. It was just kind of
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: reported that way. You found out that the guy, he
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: was a teacher. He had just recently lost his job,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: not sure what he was going to do, and probably
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: just threw himself in the river at that time. I
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: also think... Suicide.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think some of these suspects... became suspects
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: because they literally wanted to just be done and over
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: with this. They were willing to say it was anybody
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: at one point and just almost exaggerate.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: To make it fit.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: There was this guy, his name's Neil Cream.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: All right. I saw Neil Cream.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: He's about to be executed for something. A murder.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: And the executioner said, this is just one hearsay word, right?
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: And this guy's now in infamy because of the Jack
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: the Ripper case. Neil Cream is about to be executed.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: And then the executioner says, when we were dropping the
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: rope and hanging this guy, I think he said, I'm
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Jack the, and then he died. Now this motherfucker's on
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: a list of suspects. That's all it takes. Guess what, everybody?
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: I'm Jack the Ripper. Write a book about me. Get
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: me on the CNN. I got a book deal coming.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: That's all it takes, everybody. Just claim some bullshit, and
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: we got garbanzo beans coming out of our ass. Jack the.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Snap!
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: I'm Jack the... Get out of here! It's so stupid!
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: I can't even believe people take that seriously. Bring him out. Okay.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: What about Joe the Ripper? Is it Joe the Ripper?
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: No, Plumber Joe the Ripper is not on my list.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: Joe the Ripper. There was an author in 1939 named
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: William Stewart who proposed a woman named Mary Percy who
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: was actually executed For killing her lover's wife and the baby.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: And she did kill the wife by slitting her throat
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: ear to ear. Wasn't super deep. And then killed the
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: baby by, I think, like strangulation or something. And then
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: he proposed it. She was Jack the Ripper. And what
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: was interesting about this, and I can't remember if it
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: was the Mary Nichols case or something, but one of
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: the cases, the reason why they thought this is, after
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: the woman was supposed to have been dead for three hours,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: witnesses were claiming they had still seen her up and
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: about and talking.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know about that.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: They said, oh, this woman took on... put the clothes
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: of the woman on and started walking around. Of course
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know about it. It's the stupidest damn thing
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: I've ever heard.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: That is stupid because there's no woman who can slash
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: throats like that.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: Oh boy. You're going to get some letters now. You're
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: going to get some Jill the Ripper letters in the
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: mail now. I have an alternative theory too.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: That's going to blow your mind, but I don't think I,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I won't even, I won't even say what my theory is.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Go on to the next suspect.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Okay. Um, well, some people think that, that, um, that
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: Louis demon Schultz, the only person who they think he
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: may have been it, but I personally don't, we talked
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: about him before earlier. Um, he came extremely close to
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: maybe catching, um, Jack the Ripper because he was like
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: right there in the area. He was part of the
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: International Working Men's Educational Club. He had spent, I don't
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: know how much detail we want to get into this guy,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: but I personally don't think he had anything to do
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: with it. He gave a full account of the events
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: leading up to the death of Elizabeth Stride and it
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: was published in the East London Observer. We could read
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: that if we wanted to, but I just don't think
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: You know, there's nothing that really ties this guy to
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: any other crimes. He's just somebody who just happened to
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: be unlucky enough to come across a body. Yeah. You
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: know what, though? I'll be honest with you. When it
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: comes to stuff like this, I would put him above
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: the last two that we just talked about. I was.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I felt the same.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: At least he's at a crime scene. Yes. We know
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: he's in Whitechapel at that time. Jesus Christ.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt the same. I felt the same.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: So, I'm not really going with him. No. There's nothing
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: else that really ties him to anything. There was a
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: guy named Frederick Deeming, which I can't remember what he... Oh,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: he was arrested later for murdering his wife in 1892.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'm... picking up from these suspects
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: is anybody who murdered anybody ever is a Jack the
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Ripper suspect.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: Sometimes that's what happened. Sometimes that's what happened. Because people
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: would try to write something about it. I mean, there's
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: theories that like a prince, a royal prince had done something.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, the royal family. I think his name was Frederick too.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: And it was a big cover-up and all this stuff.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: But he's not anywhere near No.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: And I really wanted him to be Jack the Ripper
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: because I do a lot of episodes about the royal
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: family and their shady business that they get up to.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: But I was not able to pin it on this prince.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: Well, there's actually theories that it was Adolf Hitler.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's just skip right over that because now.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: Well, if you can't blame Adolf Hitler for everything that
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: ever happened in the entire universe, you better just get.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: That is so lazy.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, of course it's lazy. Where is it lazy? It's insane.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: But who am I to say, you know, that what
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: happened is insane. There was suspects at the time. We
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: can go over some of the suspects. This Aaron Kaminsky,
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: let me see, according to 1803 men.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Thomas Peplitz may have been Jack the Ripper, it was Kaminsky.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: So one of the senior officers that was in charge
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: of the case thought this Aaron Kaminsky was probably Jack
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: the Ripper.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't find that.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: Okay. And he's a high-ranking officer in the Jack the
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Ripper investigation, and he considered him one of the strongest
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: suspects for Jack the Ripper. But instead of going into
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: all the details, let's hear a case against it. So
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Anderson and Swanson are the two highest rankings officer with
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: the direct responsibility for the rippers. And they were both
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: in a position to no evidence against the suspects yet,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: unless they are referring to a different Kaminsky, there is
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: more information about him that has yet come to light.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: There is little evidence to link Aaron Kaminsky to Jack,
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: the river murders in any way, shape or form.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Case closed.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they say he was schizophrenic, delusional, paranoid, incoherent characteristics.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: But there's numerous arguments against him being Jack the Ripper. Apparently,
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Kaminsky didn't, as Swanson claimed, die shortly after being committed.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: So they didn't even know information about him. They were
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: getting information about him wrong. They were like, oh, yeah,
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: he died shortly after being committed. No, he didn't. He
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: died in 1919. He was committed to an asylum in 1894.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: So even these people that are pinning stuff on him,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: they don't know anything about him. And that bothers me.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: We're just talking shit.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just shit talkers.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: So, can you go with Aaron Kaminsky? There was that,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: I can't remember which one they wrote. There was a
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: guy that they wrote a, so Inspector Aberlin's favorite suspect
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: was a guy named George Chapman. And he moved to
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: America in 1891, where he established himself as a barber. Now,
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: what's interesting about this guy is that he was convicted
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: of killing women. In this way? When he went to
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: the United States. So he moves to the United States
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: in 1891. And the reason why they suspect him is obviously, hey,
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: if Jack the Ripper kept living, why didn't he keep
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: killing women? So he moves to America in 1891. and
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: kills every one of his wives. Every one. He killed
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: three wives in a row before somebody said, hey, something's
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: going on here. Why is this man's, every one of
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: this man's wives ended up dead? The problem I have
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: with it is he killed them all by poison. Yes,
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: thank you. He didn't cut them off. He didn't do this.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I was just about to drop the hammer on you.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: They were never slicing dice.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: And everybody said he wasn't even capable of anything like that.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Correct. That is also what I found.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: Okay. So, do you want me to talk about Thomas Cutbush?
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about one of the suspects I
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: actually put a lot of effort looking into.
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: Talk about your suspect first.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: My suspect... I have three suspects... And I narrowed my
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: list down off of these three suspects.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Okay. This is going to be fun.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. The first one that I paid any close attention
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: to came from a documentary I watched that I did
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: some research and digging into after I watched the documentary.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Some of you may be familiar. It is the one,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: the only James Maybrick.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: James Maybrick is the one that the diary's after. Yeah.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: I watched a documentary on.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm not gonna... Oh, we're gonna fight.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: We're gonna fight.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: We're gonna fight. We're gonna fight. Round one. Round one.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: What case do you like about James Maybrick? What do
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: you like?
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me line it up for the listeners who
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: have no idea what I'm talking about. Yep. In 1992,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: this random ass dude named Michael Barrett. who was just
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: a nobody really, Joe Schmo, claimed a journal, a diary,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: had been given to him by a friend at a pub.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: And this friend's name was Tony Devereaux. And Tony Devereaux
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: gives this unknown piece of writing to Michael Barrett. It's
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: a diary. And in the diary, the author makes the
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: claim that he had seen his wife, whom he calls
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: the bitch or the whore, in the pages of the
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: diary with an unnamed lover in the Whitechapel district of Liverpool.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: And The subsequent rage that he experienced following this sighting
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: sent him on a murderous rampage in the Whitechapel district
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: of London and led to the mutilation of five prostitutes.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: And at the end of the journal, quote, it says,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I give my name that all know me, so history
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: do tell. What love can do to a gentleman born?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: Yours truly, Jack the Ripper. End quote.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: You want me to say something about this?
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I watched the entire documentary and it was packed with experts. Yes,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: this is true love. No, this is a forgery. And
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: they would go back and forth. The writing's been tested.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: The writing medium's been tested. The age of the book
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: has been tested. They match up some of the stories
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: with the actual crime scenes. Now, what was found is
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: that a lot of the diary was contradictory to the
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: actual crime scene.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: That's what I have a big problem with. I also
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: have a very big problem with, you know, the thing
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: that I think bothers me in my bones, and you
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: can tell me what you think about this, because this
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: is just my feelings, and that could mean nothing, right?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: But when he makes that bold claim, I'm the one,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: I'm the only Jack the Ripper. You know what I think?
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: That motherfucker would have been pissed off about somebody coming
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: up with a name for him. Like the person who
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: really did it. And he would have been like, I'm
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: not Jack the Ripper. That's the stupidest name. Not stupid,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: but he would have been like, I go by this.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: I called myself this. I felt this way. I'm no
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: Jack the Ripper. I'm not this. This is who I am.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: I'm known as Jack. The killings are known as Jack
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: the Ripper, but I'm James Maybrook or something. He'd have
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: this thing. Like you don't relabel me. You don't name me.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: But the fact that you want to adopt that name,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: you want to take on the name Jack the Ripper. Like,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: these people have egos that do this shit.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the argument they make in the documentary I
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: watched is a few things. But the first thing that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: they make mention of is that James Maybrick... was dosing
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: himself in small portions with arsenic poisoning, which led him
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: to be schizophrenic, paranoid, deluded.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Well, his wife was arrested for his murder. I mean,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: it was a huge thing. It was a huge thing.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: He was legit a psycho, but that doesn't mean he
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: was Jack the Ripper. And honestly, if it's not a forgery,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: James Maybrick is... in an arsenic-induced diluted state could have
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: written this journal. The way that the journal came about
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: is suspicious. This guy in a pub gave me Jack
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: the Ripper's diary and told me to do something with it.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: 105 years after the original crimes. Here I am.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: You know, it's all fucked up. And actually, I don't
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: know if you got this, but there was a watch associated.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: There was a watch associated with it and Michael.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: Barrett scratched into the watch it says I am Jack
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: yeah and it would do some stupid ass shit.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Like that that could have been added at any time
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: and that also could be a forgery just to make
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: this whole diary thing seem legit but Michael Barrett the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: guy who supposedly came into possession of the diary confessed
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: that he forged it at a later.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: Time okay.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: And then he retracted his confession. Oh, come on, come on,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: come on.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: And you know, here's the biggest thing for me on that.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: And I, and obviously this is only one expert's claim
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: because there was this guy and he put together a
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: team of 10 people. I think one thing that I
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: want to tell the audience before we go into this,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: and this is one of the problems with anything when
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: you do something scientifically is you really can't come into
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: it with a bias to begin with, right? But what
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: you notice in a lot of these cases is they
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: people have their minds made up before they're even examining
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: the evidence. The people that are anti the book pretty
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: much are looking for anything they can say. This book
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: ain't real. Nobody goes into it with like this blank slate. Like,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: we'll see if it's real or see if it's not real.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it is or isn't. So the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: ink matches up for time and the paper matches up
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: for time and the journal matches up for the time.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: But the problem is handwriting. There wasn't a single handwriting
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: expert they could find to say that it matched. And
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: they actually could find a will that James Maybrook wrote
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: with his own hand and some documents he signed. And
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: handwriting experts are like, this is not the same person.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And after Michael Barrett confessed that it was a forgery...
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: And then retracted his confession. All of a sudden, the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: story of this Devereaux giving him the diary at a pub,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: that all went out the window. He said, actually, it
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: was his wife's and his wife's family had been in
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: possession of the diary since the Second World War. Automatically,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking when you change your story, this is three
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: times now that the story has changed. You're lying. You're
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: hiding stuff. And the handwriting doesn't match James Maybrick.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: It's 1992. You want to be Mr. Popular. You want
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: to have somebody say you're this, that, and the other thing. Again,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: it's 100 years later and people are still using this
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: shit for attention. Come look at me.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: The thing that's most contradictory in the diary, and I'll
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: just read it off for you is that the murder
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: of Mary Kelly in the diary contradicts how she was
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: really found. For example, in the diary, the author gloats
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: over how he placed parts of her body all over
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: the room and goes into sickening detail of how he
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: had cut off her tits and and kissed them for
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: a while and then set them down on the bedside
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: table where Mary Kelly's body was discovered. It was horrific,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: but the mutilated parts were confined to the bed and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: in the immediate vicinity and had most certainly not been
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: strewn about the room and her breasts were not placed
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: on the bedside table as it stated in the diary. Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: but were found beneath her body.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm in agreement with you.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: If you were the one who did the mutilating, why
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: would you put mistakes into your own diary?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: And that's just it. That's what I'm saying. Like you would,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: you would give details and I don't know if it's really,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: I can't remember if they wanted to call it a
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: diary or what they wanted to call it, a confession
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: or whatever this book is. But it just, all this
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: stuff about that just doesn't ring. It just sits with
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: me the wrong way. It just, I don't know. It's
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: like what we're talking about. It doesn't, nothing matches up.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: You know, you'd have intimate details of the crime scene.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: You'd have intimate details of what led up to the crime.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: Don't just tell me about the motherfucking crime. Tell me
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: about how you lured that bitch in there. Tell me
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: about what you said to her. Tell me about what
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: kind of make-outs you did or who saw you or
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: what you were feeling at a time or some little
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: rodent that ran by or somebody that lit a candle.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: Shit that nobody printed. Shit that nobody knew about. Why
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: isn't it in there?
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: What their last words were.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: None of that in the diary. Or.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: the anger towards the individual because they might've still felt it.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: And it's my personal feeling that this person was angry
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: at a different woman and wanted to take it out
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: on all women.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Well, they tried to make that argument with James Maybrick
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: that his wife wasn't popping the puss, so he started
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: murdering prostitutes. That was their main argument. He referred to
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: his wife as a bitch and a whore, and so
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: he started killing prostitutes because his wife was this bitch
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: and whore, but the wife for real documented said she
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: stopped getting freaky with James Maybrick because he was doing
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: arsenic and he was like 30 years older than her.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man. Dude, that shit was so fucked up
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: back then.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: So it didn't have anything to do with, I ruled
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: off James Maybrick. And the diary. It's ruled off for me.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: Same. If you at home think it's James Maybrick, you
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: better make a damn good case.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Damn good case.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: You better come with the fire.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: How many suspects did you whittle it down to?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: I haven't whittled down to one.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Were you interested in anyone else?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: I was interested in James Maybrick until I started watching
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: documentaries on him. Started reading more into it. Because the
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: diary pops up, you've got this watch. It's interesting. Hey,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: I'm a sucker for a great story. But I'm also
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: a sucker for the truth. I do want to figure
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: out the truth. You guys have heard all my stories.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: I love good stories. The Outlook Pass is a good story.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: I love the great stories on Beyond Belief. Jack the
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: Ripper is a great story. I'm a sucker for a
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: great story, especially a great mystery story. And the reason
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: why this has stood the test of time is because
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: it's a mystery. If we all knew who he was,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: we wouldn't know who he was. They would have figured
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: it out back then. He would have been a footnote.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: It would have been one of the first serial killers,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: but it would have been a footnote. You know, I've
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: heard everything from, well, H.H. Holmes escaped the United States
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: and it wasn't really him that died and he ended
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: up over in the United States. Dude, H.H. Holmes was
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: gassing bitches. Okay? He wasn't fucking chopping them up like
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Jack the Ripper. Nothing makes sense. People make up shit.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: It's wonderful fiction. It's great. Right. But it's fiction.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: It's obvious fiction.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: H.H.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: Holmes was executed Yeah. He didn't escape. He was killed.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: Who is your main prime suspect?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: Do you want me to tell you?
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Because it might be the same guy that I pegged.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: It's Charles Cross.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: It's not the guy I pegged.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross' actual real name is Charles Lechmere. And yes,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: he was the person who stood above that body. But
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: when George gave his testimony, see, when Charles Cross gave
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: his testimony, he said, I'm across the street and I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: heard George coming and we went over to the body together.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: George goes, no, he wasn't. He was hovering over the
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: body when I fucking saw him. Charles Cross gives the
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: wrong name. He gives the wrong address. Every single killing
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: was done around his walk to work at the time
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: he would be walking to work. What does Charles Cross
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: do for a living? Charles Cross delivers fucking meat with
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: a huge bloody apron on. Going completely undetected as he
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: would have a giant fucking bloody apron as he goes
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: around the streets. Where nobody would think twice about Charles
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: Cross or Charles Lechmere. Well, wait a second, Brian, but
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: he's walking to work at 3.34 a.m. every day to
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: get to his job. You're absolutely right on his 40-minute walk.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: But what about the two killings that were done that
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: weren't near his... Oh, I'm sorry, it was done right
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: outside his mother's house and his former lover's house. Excuse me.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: You're sold on Charles Cross.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: I'm fucking sold on him. But his real name is
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: Charles Lechmere. It's not Charles Cross.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Where did we get Cross from?
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: See, so Charles Cross.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: That sounds occult to me, by the way, Cross.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: So the man, okay. Let me just go over the
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: story of Charles Cross.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: It's about to be a fight to the death here, Brian,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: because I do not have Charles Cross.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: There's a wonderful, if you guys want to make up
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: your own minds about Before you're obviously convinced by my
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: argument on here. The Smithsonian Channel did a wonderful documentary
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: on Charles Cross or Charles Lechmere being the prime suspect.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: And they kind of sold me on it. And they'll
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: actually go over his actual route to work, the two
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: routes he has to work. It's uncanny how close every
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: death comes. It's uncanny how he was right there before
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: that body bled out. What's crazy is George leans over
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: the body. That body hadn't bled out like it was
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: when the police constable was there. Which tells me, legit,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: Charles Frost is standing over this body legitimately after he
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: just fucking killed it. And gets away with it, saying,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: don't touch the body. We don't need to move this body.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: We need to get to work. And then walks away.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: That is... And the information he gives to police is wrong.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: So he's actually named as a suspect, but it's not
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: until 2012 newspapers carried articles about it when he came
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: across the body of Mary Nichols. And the more I
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: learned about him and like what he did for a living,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: delivering the meat, how he could have blood all over
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: him And nobody thinks fucking anything of it. His roots
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: to work when he had to walk to work was
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 3: the times of the murders. All those murders take place
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: at the same exact fucking times when this dude's walking
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: to work. Along the routes he has to walk to work.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: Except for two of them. But the two of them
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: are done on his day off. That are right next
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: to his mother's house. And right next to his fucking
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: ex-wife's house. It's fucking uncanny to me. It's uncanny.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: I don't like the Smithsonian because they be trying to
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: cover shit up. So if it came from the Smithsonian, I.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: Rule it out. Oh man.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: This is okay. So this is your guy. You you're
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: going with cross.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: Well, here, here's the thing that I like about cross
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: is the suspect. And you guys, we do have to
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 3: break this down. Are there holes in the Charles Cross story,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: Charles Lechmere story? Did the guy lie to police? He
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: absolutely lied to police. The killings do happen everywhere this
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: dude walks to work and by people he loves houses. Okay.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: Totally fucking crazy. Could it be coincidence if it happens once, twice,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: three times, four times, five times? Uh-oh, it's not coincidence anymore.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: This motherfucker's killing people. But let's get serious with it.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: So He's in the area. He's at crime scenes or
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: right next to crime scenes. And he's caught at a
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: crime scene. He's the first motherfucker at a crime scene.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: And he's seen right over the body, literally the second
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: it fucking dies. So either he's making out with Jack
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: the Ripper or he is Jack the Ripper.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: Or it's a bad coincidence.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: Well, he missed Jack the Ripper by 30 seconds. But
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: Dever claims that he heard, you know, and here's the
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: craziest part, too. When you talk about the footsteps and stuff.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: When Charles Cross talked about his walk to work that day,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: the George guy should have been walking right next to him.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: George says, I don't see. I never saw anybody. I
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: never saw one motherfucker that looked like you. He goes,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't see Charles Cross till I got into the alleyway.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: I don't like it.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm going with witness testimony and the motherfuckers at
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: the crime scene when it happens.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I don't like cross for my suspect, but I'm willing
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: to consider it if you're willing to consider my suspects.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: Okay. Well, let me see if I even know who
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: your suspect.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: Is.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: Adolph Hill.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: How open are you to having your mind changed? How
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: open are you?
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: I'm always open to my mind being changed, but if
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: you're about to go down the path of this being
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: a cult killing, I'm going to argue with you. I'm
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: going to tell you that right now.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: And that'll be fine, but let's discuss my suspects.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with someone named Alistair Craig?
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: Oh my God. No. No. I am familiar with who
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: Alistair Crowley is. He started the Church of Satan. He
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: started the Church of Satan.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Let me get my info out, because the listeners are
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: going to want to hear this, and then you can
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: just fight me or whatever.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: We can fight, and I'm going to say this now, y'all.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: Get over on my side of the fence right now
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: while there's still room. Okay, now listen. You better get
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: on over here to Charles Cross Street.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: Everyone who listens to my podcast would probably know who
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: Aleister Crowley is, and he claimed that the true identity
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: of Jack the Ripper was... Helena Blavatsky in an unpublished
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: article titled Jack the Ripper. He wrote that Blavatsky committed
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: the murders as a necessary component of a magical ritual,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: which she was conducting, which would give her great powers.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: So she was essentially trying to blood in to the powers.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: And now who is Alistair Crowley? English occultist, ceremonial magician, poet, painter, novelist, mountaineer, pedophile,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: into human sacrifice, practiced black magic, freakazoid, and fun fact,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: six mysterious London deaths famously are attributed to the Curse
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: of Tutankhamen, but were actually murders by the notorious Satanist
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: Alistair Crowley. And he names... Helena Petrova Blavatsky as our
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: Jack the Ripper. Have you heard of this story?
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, first off, I haven't. Sounds like he's just pulling
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: stuff right out of his ass to get attention like
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: everybody else to me. I will say this. There was
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: a guy at the time during in London. So this
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: is interesting. You want to talk about People trying to
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: get attention.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: Are you going to talk about Steven?
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about Robert DeOngston Stevenson.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: Stevenson. Yeah, he's part of my theory.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: He had extreme interest in the occult. So, before any...
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: He's already got his mind made up. This is the
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: problem with this shit. This dude... is going into it
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: with his confirmation bias set, right? So he's living in
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: London at the time of the Ripper killing. Stevenson writes
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: a series of articles for the Pall Mall Gazette about
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: how the murders are claimed to be part of a
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: satanic ritual because the motherfucker's obsessed with that idea. And
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: he wants it to be a satanic ritual. Now, he
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: shows up everywhere. He's so obsessed with these crimes, he
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: began to speak to the private detectives in Scotland Yard
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: about his theories. Hey, this is black magic. Hey, this
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: is satanic. Hey, but guess what? He pestered these people
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: so much that they started to keep him as a
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: suspect for the Ripper.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would, but he was a consultant to them.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: He was involved with consulting on each of the murders
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: they and a lot of murderers do that they get
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: involved in the cases.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: And that's what made them say they go this guy's
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: it's a failed attempt to be part of the investigation
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: and he's actually a killer and.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: They started i think that's i think that's true though
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: i think that he probably could have been trying was.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: He leaning over a body before it was bleeding.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Now, listen. Brian, I gave you your time in the sun.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Now it's time to give me mine.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: All right. You got it. You got it.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: Let me go through my whole theory and then I'll
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: get your thoughts at the end.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. You go, you go.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: Now, Alistair Crowley wrote an article about who was Jack
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: the Ripper. Not a guest, but... who it really wasn't,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: this is a direct quote. He said, quote, it's hardly
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: one's first or even one's hundredth guess that the Victorian
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: worthy in the case of Jack the Ripper was no
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: less than a person named Helena Petroda Blavatsky. And later
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: in the article, he goes on to say that the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: motives of the murders were to obtain occult powers. And
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: in one of the grimoires of the Middle Ages, an
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: account was given of a process by which a sorcerer
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: could attain, quote, the supreme black magical power, end quote,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: by following out a course of action identical with that
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: of Jack the Ripper. He went on to say that
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: the murders are necessary to obtain a certain type of
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: magical power. And that the power is very real. And
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: this is another quote.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: Quote.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: The very least of the crimes necessary for him or
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: her to commit to attain the power sought is actual murder.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: By which the human victim... is essential to the sacrifice,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: yet the price is awful, horrible, unutterable. The power obtained
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: is real. Now, who is Helena Blavatsky? Do you know
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: anything about her?
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: I've never even heard her name, no.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: So Blavatsky was a highly influential occultist from the 19th century.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Originally from Russia, she inherited vast wealth. And from a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: young age, she was interested in spiritualism and traveled extensively
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: while studying. She spent time in India as well as Germany. Germany.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: before living the final part of her life in London,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: England until her death in 1891. This means that she
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: was living in London at the time of the Jack
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: the Ripper murders and would have been 50 years old
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: at the time, which comes into play with how I
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: think she was Jack the Ripper. In 1875, she co-founded
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: the Theosophical Society, which innovated an elective form of Philosophical spirituality.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: She wrote several books and stated that she possessed psychic abilities.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: So how did Aleister Crowley know Jack the Ripper was
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Helena Blavatsky? Aleister Crowley was 16 years old when she
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: passed away. And it was not until years later that
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: he was initiated into the various secret societies that she
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: was a part of. So both of them were highly
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: prominent occultists in a golden era of occult studies. They
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: both possessed the means to travel throughout the world in
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: pursuit of a greater magical knowledge. So if Crowley really
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: did discover the truth of Blavatsky and the murders that
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: occurred in London, it probably would have been through both
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: of their involvements in the same magical orders. Both Blavatsky
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: and Crowley traveled to many of the same places. And
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: why did Crowley write this article naming her as Jack
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: the Ripper? He probably learned of her involvement in the
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: murders from the occult circles which they both were a
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: part of. And she was doing these rituals to blood
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: in to the cult for higher magical power. And.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Why did he do this? Why did he want these
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: motives to be known? Could it be a deception or
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: could it be that he was an admirer? And could
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: it be that someone else who was an admirer was
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: helping Helena Petrova Blavatsky commit these murders? And who would
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: be an admirer of her That would help her carry
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: these out. Robert. Den Austin. Stevenson. She told him what
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: to do. And he committed the murders. He was involved
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: in the cases. He wrote articles. He was a consultant
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: on the cases. Stating that they were occult and satanic.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: Because he was obsessed with that.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: Because he was obsessed with that. And he would also
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: have been an admirer of Helena Petrova Blavatsky. And she
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: was essentially telling him what to do. He was carrying
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: out the crime. She was 50 years old at the time,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: so she wasn't doing it herself. But she was the
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: mind behind the Ripper. And they used these murders as
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: part of a sacrifice.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: Which.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: Here's the other catch here. The man that we know
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: as Robert Donostan Stevenson was born Robert Donostan Stevenson, but
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: changed his name. He changed his name to Roslyn Donostan Stevenson.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: And Roslyn also represents something very occult. I won't get
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: into it. I've spoken about this on another episode. But so,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: not only did he change his name to something occult,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: he's involved in occult murders, he was a consultant on
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: the case. We're linking Helena Petrova Blavatsky to these murders.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: She's the mind behind them, and he just carried them out.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: But now, get this. After he changed his name, he
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: covered up all traces of his past life. And evidence
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: has been found that Robert Donostan... actually did away with
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: his wife before he moved to this area of London,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: and his wife is actually the Rainham Torso.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: What is that?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: Google it. Very Black Dahlia-esque type of murder. And that
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: was his wife. Then he changes his name and moves
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: to Rippertown. And then the murders start happening. Then he's
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: a consultant on the case. Then he has all this
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: inside information about why they're taking place.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: All right. All right. To me, first of all, we're
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: going down rabbit holes that I'm unfamiliar with. But it
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: sounds to me like Alistair Crowley was playing some kind
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: of strange game of Dungeons and Dragons and He wanted
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: to level up and do this, do that, roll the
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: 20-sided dice to see if he's going to defeat the dragon.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: But I'm going to tell you, it just doesn't add
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 3: up to me. It doesn't add up. There's got to
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: be a paper trail. There's got to be something. There's
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: got to be some communication. There's going to be some evidence.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: This sounds very, it's a wonderful story. It's very well-written.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Explains that his wife was a hacked up torso, cut
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: in half, sliced and diced, and then he changes his
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: name and moves to Ripper Town and is involved in.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: That dude might have been fucked up. That dude might
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: have been fucked up. I don't know if he's... Okay,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: the Ripper Town murder. Tell me what you know about it.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: What do you know about it? Should I look this
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: up right now? Like, what was the state of this?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: Was it similar to.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: It was extremely similar. It was the same type of
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: slice and dice, which I would in in studying conspiracy
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: theories and the occult and these magical rituals that these
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: people do. He probably used his own wife as part
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: of a sacrifice to blood in. And then he changed
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: his name, pretended like he wasn't that person who was
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: married to her, moved to Ripper Town, all these similar,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: very fucking similar.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of speculation in what you're saying.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: That's the first thing that bothers me.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: We've got speculation, though, that he wanted to be a
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: part of the investigation, though.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: No, that's not speculation. I know he did. I know
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: he did. But, you know, he was also coming in
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: with his mind made up it was a cult. let
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: me ask you this question since we, as conspiracy theorists
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: love to ask questions to answer questions. Why don't we
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 3: start with this question? Why is he shining a giant
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: light on it being an occult killing if he's part
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: of the occult that you're trying to cover up?
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: There's a rule in occult secret societies that you have
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: to tell people what you're doing. And if nobody does
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: anything to stop you, then you keep doing it.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: Is that the final answer on Jeopardy?
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: I've not heard that.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: They have to tell you what they're doing. He literally
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: gave them an opportunity to look into it. He told
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: them what he was doing, was involved in the case,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: and they did nothing with his information. They did a
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: lot like what you're doing and they played it off
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: as like hocus pocus stuff. And somebody actually went through
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: and lined up the bodies. And it forms like a
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: weird symbol. The way that the location where the bodies
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: were found, the hour that they were probably killed, his
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: involvement in the investigation. He was telling them what he
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: was doing.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: But nobody ever saw him there. Where was his real
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: whereabouts at the times of the killings?
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: And I think that's the most important thing we need to,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: as far as alibis. And you know that they started
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: to suspect him a little bit because he was so
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: adamant about it being occult killings. He was so adamant
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: about what was going on.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have where he was. Hang on just a second.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: And it lined up. Also, Robert Donostan had medical training,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: which we've kind of decided it might not be important,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: but he was a doctor or something like that. And he... Oh,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: Donostan also was the first one who said there would
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: be no more Ripper murders, and then there wasn't.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 5: And.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: Let's see.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: That is a strange prediction. And I'm going to say this,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: regardless of what happens, the one thing that bothers me,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: even with my suspect, and I haven't brought it up yet,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: is so Charles Cross lives to be to the year 1921.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: And he actually ends up making a halfway decent living
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: for himself by the end. And he's able to pay
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: for a photograph of himself. And if you look up,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross or Charles Latchmere, you can see his photograph
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: on the Internet. And I would ask you guys to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 3: do that because you're probably looking at Brian's Jack the Ripper.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 3: You're seeing the real Jack the Ripper, 1921.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: And I would invite you to look up a picture
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: of Helena Petrova Blavatsky and Robert D'Austin. There's also pictures
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: of these motherfuckers.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: And you stare evil in the face.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: You stare evil in the face. Now listen, listen, listen.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: This is going to drive... I gotta get my whole
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: evidence across before you can come to any conclusions. Now,
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: many people besides just the police suspected Stevenson. citing that
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: the disappearance of his wife years earlier, in the exact
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: same way that the Ripper bodies were found, was suspect
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: that he was the killer. And Stevenson shared a common
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: friend with Aleister Crowley. So he had a friend who
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: was also friends with Aleister Crowley, who published the article
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: telling everyone who Jack the Ripper was, and her name
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: was Baroness... Vitrovia Primers. And he shared information with this
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: Baroness who also shared information with Alistair Crowley. So that's
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: another reason why he probably knew what was going on.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: And the Baroness herself stated that Stevenson was responsible for
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: the Jack the Ripper murders. And if you look even
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: further into the Jack the Ripper murders, the astrology behind
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: the Jack the Ripper murders is like completely astounding. In
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: every case of a murder, either Saturn or Mercury were
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: precisely on the eastern horizon at the moment of the murder.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about within minutes of the murder. And Mercury
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: is the god of magic. And Saturn is the god
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: obviously worshipped by witches during the Sabbath. And is all
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: types of the underworld and black magic and all this
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: is connected with Saturn. So we have it lining up
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: with the astrology. He was staying at a hospital during
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: the murders.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: He was at London Hospital. 31st August 1888. 150 yards
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: from the first murder.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: I'm looking into it right now.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: He had bad. pain, supposedly. And he had medical training.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: And this guy named Ivor Edwards also published a book
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: on the theory that Donostan was Jack the Ripper, and
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: in his opinion, the reason he killed was for the
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: sake of an elaborate black magic ritual and the author
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: conducted detailed analysis of the murder sites and the distances
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: between them and he literally walked them and he went
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: from the east end and paced them out and this
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: detailed analysis led to the conclusion that the killings were
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: plotted to form a ritual symbol and And this could
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: be seen if the distances were measured and the murder
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: sites joined correctly on a map. And this also led
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: to this whole theory that the reason Donostan was giving
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: all of this information and wanting to be a part
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: of the investigation and a consultant, not only did he
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: have friends who were friends with Alistair Crowley and then
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: He's obsessed with the occult. He's trying to blood into
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: the cult. He said when the Ripper murders would stop,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: and then they stopped. He has a record of a
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: dead wife murdered just like the Ripper victims. And I
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: believe he was acting as a vehicle for Helena Petrova
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: Blavatsky in a black magic ritual. Would Charles Cross know
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: how to line the murder sites up to form... an
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: occult symbol on the exact astrological alignments?
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: Oh, come on. This is what I'm going to go
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: with here. First of all, when people do these astrological
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 3: symbols and all this stuff, I want you guys to
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: keep this in mind first. It wasn't Jack the Ripper
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: leading the victims to where he wanted to kill them.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 3: It was the victims taking Jack the Ripper to where
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: they would be killed. Remember, he wanted to be out
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: of sight. And who knows better than to get you
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 3: out of sight where you can be fucked without disturbance
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: than a prostitute who wants to be seen, heard, whatever.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: And you can already know about the close calls because
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross was Jack the Ripper and basically caught and
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: then got out of it.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: But wait a second. How do we know that Helena
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't leading them? Like, hey, if you're a woman, you're
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: comfortable with another woman. So maybe she said, hey, sis,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: I want to help you out. Let me take you
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: to my house. I'm going to give you some clothes,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: some food, some money. I just want to help you.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: And then. Stevenson was waiting for them.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: Because you've got a million people living in that city,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 3: and none of the witnesses claimed they saw these women
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: with another woman leading them anywhere. That's my first thing
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: on that.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: They were drunks.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: So what? Not everybody was drunk when they were witnesses.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: And I'll say this. Witnesses did see these people, and
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: we did talk about how dark it was and how
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 3: hard it is to probably... figure stuff out. And I get,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 3: you know, we do have to keep that in mind.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: How do you explain the 1888 and the witching hour?
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: The witching hour is because that's when Charles Cross had
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: to go walk to work.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: So how was he able to do this? How was
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: he able to do this whole murder and then get
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: to work on time?
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: Because it didn't take him long.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: I think it probably at least took him a couple
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: hours to do what he did. He had to first
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: lure them and then strangle them and then dissect them.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 3: In some cases, he had more time than others, obviously.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: But they all took place around the same time.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 3: Because that's the time he was getting ready to go
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 3: to work. Those were all on his walking paths to work.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: Still able to make it to work on time though.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: I have a motherfucker that was not only staying in
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: the area but was involved in the case.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 3: He was involved in the case and he was in
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: the area for one of the killings. But what was
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: his age?
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know his age.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 3: And that's important because when we talk about So let's see.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: He was born in 1841. Okay. Died in 1916. So
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: he would be 48 years old. Most witnesses peg this
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: guy at 30 to 40 years old.
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: He looked good from all of those rituals he was doing.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 3: And I will say that the witnesses were all over
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 3: the map. I heard everything from 23 years old, but
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: I never heard 50, 60 years old. You always heard,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: and you heard different clothing and different hats and different things.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: And it made it hard. And sometimes the witnesses would
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: straight up just change who they were with, or it
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: was a soldier, or it was this person that I
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 3: saw this woman with, or that woman with. It is crazy.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot going on at this time.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: I want people to understand this too. This rattled the
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: community to a point where not only did you have
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 3: the vigilance, I call them vigilante groups set up, but
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 3: reporters were into this to the point where they were
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 3: dressing like women and going out into the streets and
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: hoping that Jack the Ripper would try to pick them up.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 3: Police were doing the exact same thing. And at some times,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: you had police questioning another, hey, are you with us?
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 3: Are you one of us? And they'd be like, no,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: I'm a reporter. And they're like, I'm taking you in.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: That's too suspect for me. And they'd arrest them. People
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: were on edge about this. Everybody was looking out for
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 3: Jack the So I do think that witness testimonies, 40
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: and younger is what you're getting. Most of the prostitutes
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 3: are around the 40, some of your age. I don't
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 3: know if I'm going with that. I don't think it's bad.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's interesting. It has more credibility than some.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: He is in the area for one of the killings
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: that we know of. And he wants to be involved
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 3: in the case. But then there's a lot of speculation
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: as who's calling the shots. Like, I want to see documents.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: You'd think that there'd be something written down or somebody
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: would say something to somebody. Yeah, there was.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: There was. This Baroness. This Baroness said that he was
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Jack the Ripper. And she was also friends with the
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: person who wrote the article.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 3: She's just claiming it. I'm talking about... details, like, go
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: kill this man. Go kill this woman.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, you don't think it's suspicious at all that his
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: first wife turned up like one of the Ripper victims
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: before he turned up in Ripper Town?
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's fucked up.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, so you go in Charles Cross, who was
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: a butcher, who was a dumbass normie over someone who
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: had experienced murder.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: A dumbass normie? You want me to read you the
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross case?
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: I want you to look at Stevenson's butchered wife.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: Well, let me... I want.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: You to look at the Rainham torso.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, I will look that up in just a second.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 3: All right, so this Charles Lechmere... born in 1849. That
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: would put him at about 30-some years old.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: You're splitting hairs, Brian.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: I'm going off witness testimony. I'm going off a man
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: found over the dead body. He's found over the dead
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 3: body before the blood's coming out of him. He's right
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: there when it's all going down.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: Bad luck.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: No, my ass bad luck. He didn't see no fucking...
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 3: Alistair Crowley running from the scene, did he?
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: Stevenson.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: Working in tandem with Helena Blavatsky.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: He's found over the body of the first canonical victim.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: And Stevenson puts close to the first canonical victim.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 3: He's found over the body! He's grabbing her hands. Don't
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: move it. Don't move it. Okay, we'll put the dress down.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 3: I'm going to work. See you later.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: All right. And Stevenson had already hacked up his wife
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: in the same way and then left town and then
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: changed his name and then started a new life. And
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: then the Ripper murders started happening. And then he said
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: the Ripper murders would stop. And then they stopped. Come on, Brian.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: In 2021, Holmgren produced a book in which Lechmere's linked
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 3: not only to the Whitechapel murders. I didn't know this.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 3: He's also linked to a series of killings known as
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: the Thames Torso Murders. My motherfucker kept killing people and
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: now he's gone! No.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: My motherfucker is also linked to a torso murder, but
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: you just ain't looking it up.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: That's because I'm learning new shit right now, live.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: You're biased because you want to prove your point. That's why.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 3: Of course I'm biased. But I want the people to
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: know the truth about Lechmere. To look into him.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: And I want people to look into Robert Roslin. Come on, people.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: I've already told you about what the Roslin means.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: It's just fucked up to me that neither of these guys,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: they're over the body. They say no blood's there. Then
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: after the constable finds him, blood's all over the neck,
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: all over the ground, everywhere. He lies about everything. Then
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 3: he's tied to these new killings, the Thames torso murders.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 3: What is this shit? Oh, and it went from 1887
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 3: to 1889. Excuse me. This dude was crazy.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: I don't like him as my suspect.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: And he dismembered the bodies. Hello.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: The Ripper victims were dismembered. Their guts were pulled out.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 3: Charles Cross. Charles Lechmere.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: Did you look up the Rainham torso, motherfucker?
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: All right, I'll look it up right now. Ramham? What
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 3: is it?
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: R-A-I-N H-A-M Rainham.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: Torso okay all one word rain ham.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: Yes rain ham torso because the organs that were removed
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: from the ripper victims would suggest that the killer was
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: using these body parts in magical ceremonies and we know
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: these motherfuckers love to do that shit uteruses vaginas.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 3: Tits Oh, the Rainham. The Thames torso murders are the
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 3: Rainham murders.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: So that was Stevenson's wife.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 3: That they think Charles Cross killed.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: Boom. Boom. We got a new tie here, people.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: My research says that undoubtedly Stevenson was responsible for his
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: wife's murder.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 3: But what makes more sense?
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: What makes more sense?
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: Why do you think this guy would be so interested
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 3: in these murders? I'm going to tell you something that
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 3: makes a little bit more sense, everybody. Not that he
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 3: was responsible for them, but his wife was brutally killed,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 3: probably by this piece of shit, Charles Cross.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: Stevenson.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 3: Charles Lechmere. And Stevenson's wife's killed this way. So now he's...
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 3: When these other... murders start turning up, he's got a
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 3: major interest in it. He wants this case to be solved.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: He probably thinks it has a tie-in to his wife's murder.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe we can even find my wife's murderer if we
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: solve this case. Now, you tell me what makes more sense, everybody,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: not the cultist with the Lester Crowley spooking up the spirits,
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 3: this woman coming around the town and saying, do this,
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 3: do that, and the other thing. He's probably got a
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 3: personal interest in the case.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: Cross is a scapegoat. Cross is a scapegoat because he
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: bled into the cult. He's doing magical rituals. He changed
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: his name. Why would he change his name after the
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: torso murders if he didn't want to start clean with
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: a new name, new city, new surroundings, and he was
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: the only person who said, These murders are going to stop.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: And then they stopped.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you why he would change his name. Because
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 3: sometimes the more ties we have to a past that
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 3: feels traumatic, if we sever those ties and we feel
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 3: like it's like the phoenix being reborn, he changes his
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: name because it's easier to deal with life.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: But why then if He loved his wife and was
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: so upset by her murder that he would become a
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: cult member in the cult he suspects killed his wife,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: becomes obsessed and loves it so much, and changes his
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: name to something that's related to the cult.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he was actually a member of
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: that cult. I don't know. That is just speculation, I think.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: He definitely was.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 3: Unless the crawly said so, come on.
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: No, no, Brian, let me put it to you like this.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: You're married. You love your wife unconditionally. Best marriage you
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: ever had. She gets murdered in some kind of like
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: weird sacrificial murder. And it's just her like black Dahlia.
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: You find your wife in a black Dahlia state. And
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are saying, this is kind of
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: a cultish to me. This looks like a sacrificial weird thing.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: And you're like, you know what? I want to name
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: myself after this cult who killed my wife. And I
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: want to become obsessed with it and write books about
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: it and articles about it. And I want to practice
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: this cult's rituals. And I want to ascend into this cult.
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: Why would you do that? Why would you name yourself? Like,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: let's say the Colt's name was like Dahlia Colt. And
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: then after they find your wife like this, you're like,
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not Brian anymore. My name is Dahlia Jason. Why
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: would you do that?
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 3: Well, we do know that this guy has an obsession
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: with the occult. I know that's a fact.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: And why would he be so angry? like admiring of it.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: If he knew that's what happened to his dead wife.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if he knew what happened to
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: his dead wife. I don't know.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: Because right after they found her murdered up, dissected torso,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: he changes his name and moves to Ripper town, white
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: chapel area. And then those murders start happening. He's within
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: 150 yards of the first murder. He wants to be
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: involved in the case. He's telling them this is what's
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: going on in the case. They don't look into it whatsoever.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: And then he's like, oh, by the way, they'll stop
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: on June 10th. And then there was never another murder
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: after June 10th. This is just an example. Like, how
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: does he know so much?
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 3: I didn't know about his quote like that. And that's
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 3: a fucking weird quote to make. How do you make
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 3: a quote that the murders are going to stop? I
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: don't know. If that's the truth and he really said that,
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: that's weird. But in my research, his name never even
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 3: comes up other than in very deep theory research. And
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 3: that's the only information that I shared earlier about him
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 3: is the only information I ever uncovered about him.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's by design, though, because they're using
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: Cross as a scapegoat?
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: I don't think they're using Cross. Most people don't. You know,
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 3: that was a theory I went with because it made
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 3: the most sense to me. OK, but Cross is Cross
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 3: up there as a suspect. I'm sure he is on
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of people's book and a lot of people's book.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 3: This is real names Lechmere. And he was in the area.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 3: And some people think he was also that those torso murderers.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: So is that a strange coincidence? That he's both. That
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 3: people think that he's both.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but we can leave the listeners up
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: to an interpretation on who they think their suspect is
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: based on Frost or Stevenson. Stevenson slash Blavatsky. But I
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: do want to ask you about something.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: This might be, we can use pseudonyms to protect the identities.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: but you knew someone very closely who could have also
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: been a suspect. And I was wondering if you might
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: share with the class on what you know about that person.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 3: For this case?
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: Or a related case in the United States? You might
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: have at one point been related to this person.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: In a way, yes. Which is actually a case that
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: I think your listeners would find fascinating if they don't
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: know about this series of cases, but there is I
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: live in Cleveland, Ohio. And back... It was in the 30s.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 3: And some people think it went on for longer than that.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 3: Nobody's sure exactly how many victims. But we had a
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 3: major serial killer out here. And they called it the
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 3: Torso Murderers. And Elliot Ness was actually... in charge of
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 3: the Cleveland police force. He was safety director out here.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: And yes, I may have been part of a family
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: that they do believe could have been that killer.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Can you share any info on why they thought it
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: was that killer?
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 3: Well, So the torso murders, which we could go on
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 3: for a long time about the torso murder. But, well,
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 3: he had medical background. But these bodies were found in
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 3: a state where things were, you know, sometimes the only
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 3: thing that was found was the torso. Other times the
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: torso is found, but the arms are over here. The
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 3: head is buried 200 yards away. It was a play
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 3: with the police. Most of the bodies were, or some
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 3: of the victims were never identified. And they had thousands
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 3: of people. They made these things called death masks and
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 3: had a fair here in Cleveland. And thousands of people
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 3: went through. Nobody could identify them. the, uh, the man,
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: the people. So now some of the victims were identified,
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 3: but a lot of them were never identified. Even the
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 3: ones that they get like faces of and had tattoos
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 3: and everything.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 4: Weird.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 3: Very weird. But, uh, the, the main suspect was Frank
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: Sweeney and he never ended up, uh, like going facing
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 3: trial or anything, but he, uh, He died in an
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 3: insane asylum.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: Was he a doctor?
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: And you.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 3: And Elliot Ness definitely thought he was the main suspect.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: And you may have been related to some Sweeneys.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: Which makes me think of Sweeney Todd a little bit.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 3: Ha ha ha!
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: But no, that is just, it always fascinates me because
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: you know this person tries to hide this and it
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: gets pushed under the rug. It's like a you don't
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: talk about it kind of subject with them.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 3: Correct. The family would not talk about it. You know, well,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 3: and his brother, there was a Martin Sweeney who was
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 3: running for Congress at that time, so it was a huge.
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 3: There could have been political stuff going on at that time.
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 3: And sometimes some people thought that, you know, they were
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 3: doing some of this, causing him as a, or calling
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: him a suspect because, um, because of, you know, just
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 3: like to create a political problem.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: I think that's, is pretty good though.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. I will say, we could do an entire episode
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 3: on this. I mean....
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: You'd have to spill the gravy, though.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 3: Which what gravy? Which gravy?
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: Your gravy on your connection.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 3: Ha ha ha ha! Hell no, I'm not saying that.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. Hell to the no. Oh, my God.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: No, all right, Brian. Are you willing to die on
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: the sword? 100% you've got your man.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 3: For Jack the Ripper? Of course. Here's the thing that
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 3: bothers me about my... So, full disclosure, the thing that
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 3: bothers me about my suspect is like, And this should
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 3: kind of bother us about all of them. Unless, like,
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 3: but you said your guy died shortly after. 1891, I
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 3: think I read he died. Right? So that makes a
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 3: little bit more sense. But how quickly these started, how
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 3: violent they were, and then how quickly they ended. It
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 3: just bothers the shit out of me. I see why
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 3: they picked that one guy whose body floated down the river.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: But no, Stevenson, so you have to think he was
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: in another location when he did the murdering of like
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: his wife and whatever, those torso murders.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: He moved to Whitechapel and the murder started and then
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: he moved again and then died right after they stopped.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: Because you'd think if it was crossed, there would be
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: like this gradual building up of his... But didn't he
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: live in that area for a very long time? Cross?
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: So my argument is that there's usually like a building
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: up as the murders get more and more grotesque. But
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: it was like they happened.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: Well, that's why there was one of the murders that
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 3: happened before the canonical five that I do think could
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 3: have possibly been. It was the first Whitechapel murder that
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: happened in Whitechapel that was not the gang-related one. And
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 3: when they found the body, she was stabbed like 40 sometimes.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: And then described the killer, died later, and her skirt
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 3: was pulled up the same way the other victims were.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: How did she describe it?
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: And the reason why I like that, I think there
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 3: could have been pre-killings. is because a lot of these people,
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just like anything else. Things evolve as
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 3: we get better at things or as the same thing
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: won't satiate the hunger. You know, it's like that first
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 3: killing might've been a certain way, but then you realize, Oh,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 3: I got away with it. And I have all this
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 3: pent up anger inside of me and all this other stuff.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: I'm still going Stevenson. I'm still going Stevenson. I mean,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: you have to, remember that just like Ted Bundy if
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: you remember after he had been arrested and convicted he
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: did these whole series of tapes where he was like
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: well if I was the murderer I would do this
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: never saying that he was until the almost two or
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: three days before his execution, did he admit that he
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: did all these murders? But before that years earlier, he
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: did this, if it was me, I would kind of confession,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: just like how OJ wrote that book. If I did it,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: I would have. And that's what Stevenson was doing.
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: I know really weird fucking shit to do something like that.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 3: And I don't, I don't dislike your, your pick. I
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: don't dislike it.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: I think I know how skeptical you are, Brian.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: I know because once I broke it down, I saw
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 3: that he was in the vicinity of the, that first killing,
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 3: but I do love, I mean, when you find a
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 3: person with basically blood on their hands, they're right there
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: and it's their walk to work and it's their, you know,
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 3: their job, they can have blood on an apron and
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 3: nobody's going to think anything of it. They're delivering meat
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 3: and they are in those vicinities at those times every day.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 3: And then those other killings are like, hey, here's my
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 3: mom's house and here's my wife's house. When I was
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 3: just going to visit my, like, is it coincidental?
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 3: And then there's also talk that maybe he was part
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 3: of those torso murderers too. Again, all these things have
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 3: holes in them. There's speculation that can be put up
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 3: on all of it. But when you can start putting people...
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to take away from the fact that
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 3: you can put that motherfucker right there. He's working with
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 3: the police. He's writing books about it. He's weird as fuck.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 3: You got some weird ass shit happening before in his life.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 3: Like those aren't just coincidences either.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: And that's what I was going to say is I
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: know how skeptical you are about like the cults. And
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: that's why I love talking to you so much sometimes
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: is because I fully accept it because I know like
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: a bigger, grander scale of what's going on with these cults.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: But to break it down to someone who's never researched it.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: Let's say even if Stevenson had a weird mental disorder
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: where he just became obsessed with the idea of the
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: cult to the point of murder or to the point
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: of acting out on certain beliefs, he could still be
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: our guy.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to argue that he could be. I mean,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of people that could be Jack the Ripper,
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 3: but like we talked about before, these people that they're
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: bringing up are, you know, you can't place them. Sometimes
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 3: you can't even place them in London. I want to
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 3: bring up one that like, this is how ridiculous it got.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of people claiming that Lewis Carroll,
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 3: who wrote Alice in Wonderland.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: I saw that.
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: I saw that.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: He's a sick freak too, but I don't think it
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: was him.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 3: He's a sick freak, but he's in America. I know.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 3: I know. And he's doing sick freak shit in America.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 3: I know. And we're trying to find out, you know,
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 3: If it's who's Jack the Ripper, that's what we're trying
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 3: to find out. So, you know, I try to take
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 3: evidence for what it is. And the biggest things for
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: me are, can you put somebody in London Whitechapel area
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 3: at that time? And both of our suspects, you can.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 3: Can you put them near crime scenes or in crime scenes?
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: In my case, you can put somebody at the crime
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 3: scene and who lied to police. That's huge to me.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: your suspect working with the motherfucking police next to police.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 3: That can be suspect too. He also comes out a
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 3: call to call to call. Is it his confirmation bias
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 3: or is he in the occult? I don't know. I mean,
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 3: do I think occults or cults themselves exist? Yes. What
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 3: degree do they play in things? I mean, when you
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: start going down some rabbit holes, that's where I say like,
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 3: People overplay government's hands. They overplay cult's hands or Satan's hands.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 3: You know, that was popular in the 80s. It's Satan, Satan, Satan.
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 3: It's cult this. It's cult that. And people are fascinated
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 3: with that shit because it's mysterious. I get it. But
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 3: we got to plan. We got to find what are
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 3: the facts? Like if we reverse this, what are the facts?
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 3: What you're telling me? Seems factual, some of it. Some
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 3: of it, I don't know if it's factual or not.
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 3: It sounds more like hearsay. But you can still put
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 3: that guy.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: But, Brian, if you... Okay. Let's think of it from
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: another perspective. Your wife ends up murdered in a similar
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: fashion to the Ripper victims. You change your name, and
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: then you move to a new town where suddenly... Women
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: are starting to turn up just like your wife did.
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: And then you're all obsessed with the cases.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 3: Which is a very rare thing to time. I will
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 3: say this. What you're telling me is a very rare
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 3: thing to have happened at that time.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 3: People don't know about serial killers back then. They didn't
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 3: call them serial killers. I don't think that term came
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 3: out until the 70s. Yeah. So, and I'm talking the 1970s,
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: not the 1870s.
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, people don't know what to make of this.
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 3: And I understand you're asking me this question and it
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 3: makes sense. And I love a detective who says, I
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 3: don't believe in coincidences. I think the problem here is
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 3: we have coincidences on both sides. Is it coincidental that
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 3: this motherfucker is in these areas? My guy, Charles Frost.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 3: every single victim on his walks to work or the
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 3: one day he has off, it's his mother's house and
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 3: his other, like, that's not just coincidental. I'd have that
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 3: motherfucker arrested and be talking to him and, and he
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 3: was arrested and he's giving lies while arrested. And he's also,
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 3: you know, that's all suspect as fuck. If he's not doing,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 3: but see, I also look at it for what the
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 3: times are and people didn't trust police. Yeah.
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And the police were also
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 3: under a lot of pressure from the public to bring
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 3: in somebody. Yeah. I'm surprised somebody didn't get killed on
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 3: behalf of Jack the Ripper.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: I'm actually shocked. I know.
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 3: Just to shut the public up and say, we got
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 3: our man. Everybody calm down. We're good. We're going to
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 3: have a public hanging and you guys can throw your
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 3: tomatoes tomorrow at 12 a.m. Mm-hmm.
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of the other people who
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: were named were just to close the case.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to say, hey, we're making arrests. This is what's
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 3: going on. The newspapers, you know, were asking for stuff
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 3: every day. You had multiple groups. You had panic in
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 3: the streets. People drunk and crazy and everything else. I
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, it's hard to say. And obviously,
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 3: we can't be definitive with it. But I think we
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 3: gave people... I would just urge people to look deeper
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: into the names that we gave and come up with
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 3: your own. If you come up with information that we missed,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 3: provide it. Because the truth is, I can't be married
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 3: to the idea of my suspect. That's unfair to the truth.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Now, I do want to ask you one
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: thing before we wrap up the episode. And that was
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: the comment you made about how Jews was spelled.
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 3: Yep. Which I can't remember. It was Jews, but there
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 3: was a whole sentence that was written up on that wall.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: And it turns out that it could have been, the
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: way it was spelled was like J-U-E-W-E-S or something like that.
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 2: And it could have actually meant something else or been
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: a word for something else. But my thing is, with
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: Stevenson being so intellectual and clever and having medical training
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: and writing articles for the police and having all this
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: occult knowledge and being as smart as he was, was
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: Stevenson leaving occulted Riddles for people. Now, a butcher with
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 2: a bloody apron doesn't seem as likely to come up
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: with riddles like that as Stevenson would.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, again, we're speculating, but you're probably right.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: These are all things I can see.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 3: But what are these riddles coming from? These letters that
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 3: are bullshit?
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I think they're written... in code for people who
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: are of the understanding.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 3: any of those, I mean, again, we don't know. We
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 3: just don't know.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: It's that's what I'm saying. But I mean, obviously the
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: listeners can look into both suspects and draw their own conclusions.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: I think both of them.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 3: Or another suspect, you know, I'd also say if you have,
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 3: a great idea who you guys think is a suspect,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 3: share it and provide why you think so with some sources,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 3: not just like, I had a dream last night that
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 3: it's Celine Dion. Okay. Don't tell me that because I
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 3: don't care. I'm not going to believe it. But if
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 3: you like do some research, watch some documentaries, read into
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: things and you have a good I'd love to hear
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: it because I love these types of mysteries. A lot
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: of people love these types of mysteries. These are great
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 3: discussion topics. But we do have to be fair. I'll
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 3: be honest. When you first started going down the occult road,
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 3: you know, my biases definitely kick in. I'm going to
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 3: be like, bullshit. But I heard you out, looked into
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 3: it a little bit more. You know, there are some
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 3: people do some stupid ass shit. Mm hmm. And there's
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 3: weird coincidences.
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: There that I'm not going to deny.
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm like sitting there like, that's some weird shit.
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 3: Your wife gets fucking hacked up and you're Mr. Occult
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to work with the police and I'm
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 3: going to do this. And oh, I'm 150 yards. I'm
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 3: here at the hospital. Back pain day. Two minutes later,
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 3: fucking somebody's dead with their throat slit.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot to it. And I also
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: say why some of these cases are unsolvable is because
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: back then, God only knows no DNA testing no forensic
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: evidence all of the crime scenes were contaminated then we
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: have all these divergence to look down because the second
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: you feel like I'm on to the right suspect They
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: throw James Maybrick's diary in.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 3: Well, that's make me popular.
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 3: Get me attention. I mean, who doesn't want to come
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 3: out and say, hey, I've used science to figure out
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 3: this case. People have actually used DNA evidence to try
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 3: to figure out. And if you guys look into this,
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 3: you'll start realizing this. There's DNA evidence to say it
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 3: was that woman.
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 2: And I saw some stupid TikTokers trying to say it
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: was that woman.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And here's the thing. I mean, come on. We
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 3: got to be better than that. And then you got
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 3: people saying, hey, it's this Maybrook guy. Here's his diary.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 3: How can I make myself popular? How can I bring
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 3: this into the light? Who doesn't want to say I
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 3: figured out the Jack the Ripper case? I think the
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 3: real reality is, No one's going to figure out this
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 3: case because as you dig in deeper and deeper and deeper,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 3: there's holes in everything. It does bother me. So your guy,
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 3: the difference here between mine and your guy, and this
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 3: is a credit to you in this particular case, that's interesting.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 3: It bothers me that the murders don't continue because somebody
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 3: that sick and depraved that's getting that much, who's even
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 3: willing to kill two women in one night? Something happened
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 3: to this motherfucker. Did he get arrested? Did he die?
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: Did he die?
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 3: Did something happen? Like your guy dies in 1891, but
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 3: that's still not even good enough for me. Cause I'm like,
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 3: he's killing people weekly. Every other week he's killing somebody.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: But if you think of my theory, it might have
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: been because he felt it. whether it was real or
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: it was imagined in his mind that he had completed
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: the ritual.
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 3: Well, I understand that that's what you're going with, but
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 3: we got to have something concrete there.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: And it could have been, including his wife, six victims.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 3: And that's speculation. Speculation.
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 5: I'm just saying Brian I know but you're just it's
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 5: speculating and I need something more concrete to that but
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 5: my guy here it is same thing lives till 1921.
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 3: And don't kill anybody.
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 2: It's the same way.
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 3: It's the same thing it's like what's going on well
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 3: I had a bad year you know it's just a
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 3: bad summer for me Five women. Decided to kill five
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 3: women in a way that is unforeseen in the times.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 2: Now, Brian, just in summary, because we've given the listeners
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 2: a lot to think about.
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 2: And I love true crime. I love the occult. Well,
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: I don't love the occult. I researched the occult. And
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like we put out a lot of possible
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: solutions to the Jack the Ripper mystery. But you always
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: bring the fire each and every time you come on.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 2: You gave us a lot of mysteries last time.
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: I hope everybody enjoyed that episode.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: I know the listeners love a good mystery, but can
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: you tell us.
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: What mysterious happenings are going on with the Cleveland Schwill?
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: Because I know that you had on a psychic medium
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: or something like that. She could go into people's past.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 3: Well, she's actually not a psychic. What she does is
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 3: she's a hypnotherapist. And what I thought was interesting about
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 3: this and, and, and full disclosure, guys, I'm not a
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 3: very big believer in anything. Okay. Um, but, That doesn't
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 3: mean that I don't find it fascinating. It doesn't mean
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 3: that I don't let somebody talk or listen to them.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 3: And this was actually something that kind of did resonate
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 3: with me because these are people from all different religious backgrounds.
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 3: These are all people from completely different upbringings, different parts
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 3: of the world. And obviously we're living in the Western
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 3: society and this is a very Eastern philosophy. Or practice.
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's even better to say is it's an
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 3: Eastern practice. So she hypnotizes them. And she's got hundreds
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 3: of cases of people that don't know each other. Talking about.
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: Similar things.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 3: This is what I did in my past life.
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 3: These are the traumas I was dealing with in my
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 3: past life. This is what it was like when I died.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 3: This is what it was like when I was in
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 3: the soul realm. This is the job I was given
• 2:23:27
  Speaker 3: in the soul realm. This is what it was like
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 3: when I was born. She goes, people can remember their birth.
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 3: They remember their death. She says, when you actually bring
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 3: it up under hypnosis, your death is much less traumatic
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 3: unless you're killed in a traumatic way than your birth.
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 3: She goes, your birth is very traumatic to you. as
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 3: you're remembering it, as you're living through it. And she
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 3: talks about people getting jobs in the soul world and, and,
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 3: and like how some people, they can't figure out why
• 2:24:05
  Speaker 3: they have anxiety or problems in this life, but they're
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 3: really dealing with traumas from the past life that were
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 3: never healed. It was just really interesting stuff. She's from Ireland. Originally.
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 3: She's got that thick Irish accent, fit the bill perfectly.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I have all sorts of different people on,
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 3: but I love a great, interesting story.
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 3: Me too. And I think it's up to my listener
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 3: to decide to believe it or not. I'll let my
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 3: person tell their story, and then it's up to you
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 3: to believe that. Or it's up to you if you
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 3: want to try it out. So true.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: Are you working on anything currently that you're excited about?
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 3: Well, just on my podcast? Yes. Well, there is. So
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 3: for your listeners sake, like I do everything on my podcast, right?
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 3: So like as we're doing this one, the last episode
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 3: I just released was three Italian women chefs that wrote
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 3: an internationally bestselling cookbook. Um, and we talked to them
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 3: about where do you get your ingredients in Cleveland and
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 3: what should you do when you're cooking? And like, it
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 3: was a very family oriented cookbook and it was really cool.
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 3: And we, we, we discuss it, but like, I also like,
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 3: I had that Moira Michelle on who does, you know, hypnotherapy,
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 3: but then I also like, I have somebody that there's
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 3: a couple of businesses that I'm looking at. There's two
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 3: places in Cleveland. That I really want to talk to.
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 3: And I'll tell you guys about it. And if I
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 3: do an episode. I'll fill you in on it. When
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 3: it comes up in the future. But the first one is.
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 3: There's a place in Lakewood. Called Cleveland Curiosities. That opened up.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 3: And Cleveland Curiosities. Sells tarot card decks.
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 2: Oh it's a spiritual.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 3: Well it's not just spiritual. It's everything. They sell human skulls.
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 3: They sell jarred. remains of animals they have camel bone
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 3: dice they have just these weird things and it's like
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 3: i want to go in there talk to them.
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 4: See if they're witches and wizards well and they probably
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 4: are and if they are that's great i mean i'll
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 4: talk to them i'll probably end up a victim of
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 4: jack the ripper but you.
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: Might you might have to go back to our roots
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: on that one brian and just you know plead the
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: blood of jesus all over you before i start an interview.
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 3: Like that julia you might not know this but i
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 3: recently found out too that the witchcraft museum is in cleveland.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 2: Get the fuck out nope and i want to go
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 2: don't you dare go.
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 3: I'm going for All right. Leave us well alive.
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 2: You better have seven crucifixes on. You better say all
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: your Hail Marys before you go up in that motherfucker.
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 3: Well, when I come out, they better not be inverted.
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 3: Tell you that. You have a problem there.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy. And your host is my wonderful brother. Yep. Yep.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 3: Who was big on your Tommy Chong episode.
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 2: Oh. yeah. And I know that Tommy Chong is more
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 2: of your era and his era than mine.
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 2: So I was glad to bring him on and represent
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 2: the Cleveland Schwill podcast because he brought out a lot
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 2: of interesting information from Tommy. And I feel like he
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 2: is a bit of comedic relief sometimes, even on Cleveland
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 2: Schwill podcast.
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 3: Oh, Dave? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know what?
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 3: You need that. Yeah. You need that. You need to
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 3: crack a few jokes up in there for this serious
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 3: information sometimes. Especially when you're talking about hacking bodies up.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 3: If you can slip a couple jokes in there, that's okay.
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 2: And it keeps people interested as well. Because there was
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 2: a couple times I wanted to break down laughing, but
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't for the sake of the episode. Yeah. No, Brian. Okay.
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 2: For real though. Where can the listeners check out the
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 2: Cleveland Schwill podcast?
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 3: So we have, thank you for asking. We have an
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 3: Instagram and it's Cleveland underscore Schwill, S-C-H-W-I-L-L. Please come check
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 3: us out. You can see all the past episodes that
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 3: we did and what we're going to be doing in
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 3: the future. And then we're on, if you look up
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 3: Cleveland Schwill podcast, I'm on all the big players. I'm
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 3: on Amazon. I'm on Apple. I'm on Spotify. I'm on Anchor.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 3: I'm on Google. So, you know, a lot of our topics,
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 3: we do just interview people that are in the Cleveland area.
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 3: But really, if you're into that particular topic, it's going
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 3: to pertain to you. You know, it's going to be
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 3: something that you're interested in. Because I'm always interviewing people
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 3: that are doing things that are nationwide. They just happen
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 3: to be in Cleveland. So even if you like ghost
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 3: stories and stuff like me and you did a deathbed
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 3: confessional type episode for Halloween. And then I did a
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 3: Halloween episode of just like things that are ghost stories
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 3: in Cleveland.
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say that. Check out the
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: Halloween episode. It's got a lot of cool stuff in there.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: And that's why it's so great to have two podcasters
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: in the family, because, you know. Our family get-togethers are
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: not boring.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 3: No, they are not. By any stretch of the imagination.
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 2: Actually, it would be three podcasters in the family, including
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 2: my brother. Yeah.
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. But we all have a great time. If
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 3: you were a fly on the wall at any of
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 3: these things, that'd be a podcast in itself.
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, hell yeah. But I do love you so much, Brian.
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 2: And I love the Cleveland Swill podcast. I hope everybody
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 2: goes and checks it out. Thank you so much for
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: being a ripperologist tonight.
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you having me on. And I do want
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 3: to say, I actually love all your listeners and I
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 3: appreciate that you guys enjoyed the Outlaw Pass episode so
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 3: much and all the feedback that you guys gave on
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 3: it and Please give some great feedback on any episodes
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 3: I'm on because that way you can stroke my ego.
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 2: I think that's the perfect note to leave it on.
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 2: All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening and
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 2: we'll catch you on the next one. Thank you.