Transcript

LONGLEGS · Citizen Frame

0:00
All right, people, this is pretty nice of us. It is pretty nice of us.
0:07
We've decided to give you a wee treat, and we went to see Long Legs just last night.
0:17
And we usually put out one a week, but for you guys who have been just loyal
0:23
listeners, we're going to go ahead and pepper in this new release.
0:29
Now I will say this I don't say it often because we do a lot of Catalog stuff
0:33
but I will say for this one This is a new release it's a week old Not even So
0:39
if you haven't seen this film We are going to spoil the fuck out of it Plus
0:43
it's hot off the press You know we literally just watched it Less than 24 hours ago,
0:49
Yeah so And I will say that's why there's no intro So I do apologize There's
0:55
no soundbite I can't get anything thing yet and the film was featured with a
1:00
bunch of T-Rex songs which I'm not allowed to use and so,
1:04
really the only introduction is myself, my charming, charming self so I'll sing
1:10
it so we'll say something like, here, welcome to Citizen Frame.
1:15
What about if you did a cover of a T-Rex song you know, Bang A Gone or something
1:20
Bang A Gone Get it on, Bang A Gone 20th Century Boy Boy. Knowing my luck,
1:27
I'll get a fucking seat for that.
1:29
Fuckers. See you in court. Yeah. By Mark Boland's estate.
1:35
All right. So, where do we start?
1:38
Okay. So, the reason I like to watch films a couple times, because I think it's
1:43
only fair, Smile will be a perfect example.
1:46
And the reason I was waving on this one is because Smile got all this overhyped.
1:51
You know, we talked about this before. Everyone loves it, and they still do.
1:55
I went to see it, I thought it was a piece of shit,
1:58
I thought that was all the overhype, right? Yeah. So I had to go see it again
2:02
because to be fair, that was still a piece of shit.
2:06
I wasn't impressed with it either. Yes.
2:10
So Long Legs was the same thing. Long Legs is getting a fucking rave reviews.
2:17
Best films in the science of the lambs, scarier than hell and creepy. Okay.
2:27
And I, but I didn't have to see it twice because I wanted to marinate it.
2:32
I wanted to marinate it for the night and I pretty much have my verdict.
2:35
And also we're here to set the record straight in terms of whether the hype is worth it or not.
2:42
Exactly. The one thing I will say before we talk about this,
2:46
it is way overrated. it is, but I think people after thinking about it need to experience it.
2:55
I think that's the perfect way of doing it. But guys, if you're looking for
2:59
James Wan jump scares and you're looking for, you know, we'll dig into the serial
3:07
killing aspect of it. Yeah, well.
3:08
But if you're looking for a traditional horror, I don't think you really look
3:13
for it to go in a different direction.
3:15
This, if you're fans of anything by David Lynch, if you're into elevated horror,
3:22
or if you're into movies like Seven is a perfect example. Manhunter.
3:28
Manhunter, Michael Mann kind of style of storytelling, this is for you.
3:32
And clearly, I mentioned a pretty good list of people there,
3:36
so this might be for everybody.
3:38
But guys, it's not Gorefest. It's not a slasher film. And I will say this,
3:44
I do feel the trailer misleads people.
3:48
And so you might go
3:51
in there misled i thought a little misled but
3:54
i i don't know if that's the filmmaker's fault because more
3:58
of the misled came from the reviews i was just going to back
4:01
that up actually that's what i was going to say basically i
4:04
think the hype is a misdirect and that
4:07
it's being even promoted on the tagline which would
4:10
have come from the studio like you know this is this generation's the
4:13
silence of the lambs it's not it's a very it's its
4:16
own sort of entity in and of itself it's
4:20
no apart from it being about the fbi you know
4:23
going after a serial killer it's not really in
4:26
any way like the science of the lambs and in fact i would say that it has much
4:31
more in common with thomas harris's previous novel and the film adaptation of
4:36
it red dragon and which later became michael mann's manhunter yeah it's guys
4:43
this isn't a big action piece this isn't,
4:46
It's not, sadly, it's not a pot boiler.
4:50
It's let me down a bit. And it's not a whodunit.
4:54
Sorry. It's a Bruton atmosphere.
4:56
Exactly. And that's where I was teetering. We're going to jump into it here.
5:01
But again, this is more a character study.
5:06
That's it. And they pepper in.
5:09
This, this, this, this occult or this backstory, which we'll jump into.
5:14
It's going to be fun to talk about, to be honest with you, because like I said,
5:18
I hate this fucking elevated horror that's coming out and fucking tree trunks
5:24
and naked people and. I wouldn't class this as elevated horror.
5:27
Let me, can I finish please? Well, I'll think about it. Go ahead.
5:33
You elevated horror snobs think you can just interrupt people.
5:37
Interrupt people. No, but, and I always rip on Trevor because he likes this occult kind of stuff.
5:43
Yes. And I don't, I don't get it. I wasn't a big fan of Rosemary's Baby as much
5:47
as I could appreciate it. The Worker Man was a fucking nightmare.
5:50
Lighthouse was a fucking worse than a nightmare.
5:53
Hereditary was a massive disappointment.
5:56
The Witch was, it had the cool goat. But at the end of the day, they all disappoint me.
6:02
And so when I knew the direction they were going, I was like,
6:05
fuck no. No, but I turned to my left and I saw Trevor going, yes, yes.
6:13
And, but there's no naked old people and there's no trees.
6:18
Sadly. So I was happy and, but I knew Trevor was a little hurt by that.
6:22
Yeah. Because he loves his naked old people and trees when it comes to his occult horror.
6:26
Well, you know, I would say, right, like, as I said, just now,
6:29
I wouldn't say this is elevated horror, but it is, yeah, it's all about mood and atmosphere.
6:35
Sphere it's it's certainly satanic horror i
6:38
think a lot of people you know as part of this hype are
6:41
calling it just you know a sort of almost like a police procedural thriller
6:45
now this is an occult satanic horror it's supernatural yeah i would i would
6:51
go it it's it's a very smart film okay what's you know what we're jumping into
6:56
it now and let's just start from the beginning,
6:59
Once upon a time There was a podcast.
7:04
Can I finish? Why do I have to interrupt?
7:06
Sorry, sorry, go ahead Once upon a time, go ahead Elevated horror people I'm
7:12
not an elevated horror person You just prove it right there No I'm not You interrupt me again Alright,
7:19
start my story time There it is, blew it No,
7:24
I was going to do something stupid like Once upon a time,
7:27
there was an actor who gave us the great norman bates yeah and his name was
7:32
anthony perkins and he gave us a son by the name of oz perkins which leads us
7:38
to our film today don't forget that cage.
7:42
Oz Perkins. Why did you bring up Nick Cage? I wasn't even talking.
7:45
Because he's the star of the film.
7:47
No, I said, oh my God. Right. Just continue.
7:52
Actually, Nick Cage isn't the star of the film, but. He's top build.
7:57
Oh my, because he's Nicholas Cage. Yes. And no, he's not top build actually.
8:01
He's actually and Nicholas Cage in the credits. You didn't even pay attention.
8:06
Wow. He's the star to me. Elevated horror. There you are.
8:11
But oz perkins has been kind of playing
8:14
odd roles he's mainly an actor but he's
8:17
got a couple street creds for directing i like about four or
8:20
five films and i've seen about all of them actually and they're pretty they're
8:23
actually pretty good they're kind of a style they're they take something from
8:28
that might have worked in a different film or he'll pepper in a little nods
8:33
kind of you know like a tarantino kind of style but he makes the film completely
8:36
his own i did a film called February, which was pretty good.
8:41
With Emma Roberts, I think is in that one, it's pretty good.
8:44
I did Gransil and Hansel. Yes, it's reversed, but that's just the way he works.
8:49
He also did a recent episode of the rebooted Twilight Zone series,
8:54
you know, the Jordan Peele's Twilight Zone.
8:56
I haven't seen the episode to be fair, but I know it features the return of
9:00
the cannibates, which were iconic aliens from the classic episode of the Twilight
9:05
Zone in the 60s called To Serve Man,
9:07
but I I haven't seen his episode, this his new episode of it yet,
9:11
but I know he directed it.
9:12
Yeah. So he's got, he's got, he's worked with, you know, plenty,
9:15
plenty of, uh, talent around him and stuff like that.
9:17
So this one would probably catapult them.
9:21
Oz Perkins has a really a Ty Westfield to him. Very independent.
9:25
Really doesn't go mainstream. I'd agree. This is a very, very independent film.
9:31
And so he definitely has that. And I can't see Oz Perkins going outside that box like, like Ty West.
9:38
I think they're kind of happy where they are and that's cool if they make,
9:40
you know, movies like this.
9:43
So yeah, Oz Perkins, we got the, the scene stealer is believe it or not, not Nicolas Cage to me.
9:53
It's going to be the lead actress in this. She plays Agent Harker, Monika Monroe.
9:58
We know her from It Follows. And I'll tell you what about her performance.
10:02
Her performance is so spot on.
10:04
She's a, she's a FBI agent. And the great thing about the character,
10:09
and guys, this is spoiler Phil, I'm about to give you a big one here.
10:12
Through most of the film, she plays a girl who's very reserved,
10:17
quiet, almost depressed.
10:20
Yes. But it's, it's the late nineties. So I think what they were trying to do
10:25
in the film is that she's somewhat autistic.
10:29
And the long legs killer leaves these notes And this is more of a zodiac killer
10:35
Kind of style notes So they need someone to cipher the notes And she can look
10:40
at them And with a certain amount of time She can figure out what the notes
10:45
are saying So the FBI give her these tests And she can.
10:49
And so they think she's psychic But really when you look at her emotions and
10:56
the way she's emotionalist, technically, I think that's what we're supposed
11:01
to believe, that she's autistic.
11:04
But we find out it's not autism. We find out that, big spoiler here,
11:11
that she is involved in this. She has a traumatic past.
11:16
Yeah, the traumatic past. So So her knowledge,
11:24
being able to pick the house where the killings were in the first opening scene
11:29
where the agent gets gunned down, and she goes,
11:32
oh, the murders happened in this house, without even batting an eye,
11:37
is because she's actually being handed the torch this whole time. Yes.
11:43
And so it's a nice misdirect in the film.
11:46
And the films could be a little somber and
11:50
using the somber films you'd be like oh right this
11:54
is good but it's not like that you kind of want to see where it plays out the
11:58
flaws of the film are certainly not the actors nick cage's long legs is very
12:02
good in it this whole hiding the face on the poster and not seeing who he really
12:07
looks like he's a pig face all right guys it's not that That creepy.
12:11
He's a pig face. He looks like he's got, he's got an uploaded pig. It's not that creepy.
12:18
Very, very well done for the marketing team. I'll give them that to get people
12:21
in the seats to see what Nicolas Cage looks like.
12:23
But guys, it's not, it's not, it's not a big surprise. It's not like, oh, that's it.
12:28
He looks like a mutated Marilyn Manson.
12:31
Yeah, a bloated one or something. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, she's very good as well.
12:37
You know, the lead actress, she is, you know, she totally sells it.
12:41
So she does. And carries the film because, you know, Nick Cage isn't in it that much.
12:46
Yeah, he's not. And so he's not much of a scene stealer because the scenes he's in, he's by himself.
12:51
Yeah. He does near the end when the prison scene, obviously he takes it, he takes it from her.
12:56
But you've got also Blair Underwood who plays Agent Carter.
13:00
Alisa Witt, It's very nice to see. She plays the mother, Michelle O'Lee, Agent Browning.
13:05
And then you've got a little cameo by Kiernan Sipka, I think her name is.
13:10
She plays Carrie Kamara.
13:11
Now we'll focus on the, you focus on the Kamara family quite a bit.
13:16
And I'm hoping Trevor, you can, let me, I'm going to go real quickly on what
13:25
I feel, kind of like what we did with Mulholland Drive.
13:27
Yes. and then you jump in and then we'll discuss it from there. Yes.
13:32
Because I got a couple of different questions that I didn't catch at all that you might know.
13:36
So in the beginning, we see the girl and it's shot through that.
13:41
It's kind of clever because it's in the 70s. So it's shot through like an eight millimeter.
13:45
Yes. Okay. The ratio. And that's another thing. What he does,
13:49
he doesn't give you timestamps.
13:52
So anytime they're in a scene and they know you're in a different kind of era
13:56
different decade there's always a big picture of a president yes but also what
14:02
he does is for the scenes in the 1970s there's the ratio change.
14:10
Yes, that's what I was saying. Yeah. That's what I was saying, the 8mm.
14:13
Yeah. Kind of, you know, and then you had music T-Rexes play and that kind of stuff. Yes.
14:19
And now, guys, the plot twists and turns here, there isn't any, okay?
14:25
And that's one of the letdowns for me. There's no surprise here.
14:29
We pretty much know the, and that's one of the movie's downfalls.
14:33
Well, here's the thing, Kieran. I would say a lot of people agree with you,
14:35
but a lot of people are saying there's a great twist in it.
14:38
So a lot of the twist while we
14:41
were sort of expecting it there's a couple of twists we were
14:44
expecting it again i'm not trying to sound arrogant on our behalf
14:47
and that you know i yeah we had it worked out but i have seen a lot of people
14:51
online saying it features a great twist and that they weren't expecting yeah
14:57
that's that's us probably because we see a lot of films i'm gonna be honest
15:01
that's probably what it is possibly pretty well yeah and that's not arrogance
15:04
as we just know it But, but the guys,
15:06
if you know, and if you do, if you do catch the plot twists and you're listening to podcasts,
15:12
you know, oh, you done it and you're listening to podcasts. Whoops. Yeah.
15:17
But listen, it's not, you know, the little girl's her, you know, the mother is nuts.
15:22
Not, not, not nuts. She's just disturbed.
15:27
Disturbed because of what she had to do. The story pretty much focuses on.
15:32
The life and day of Agent Harker. And so what happens is she's approached by
15:36
Longlegs in the beginning of the film.
15:38
She's then, then that kind of cuts away. We don't see much. Now we're back to
15:41
the 1990s and she's now an agent for the FBI.
15:45
They think she's a psychic. She's really not.
15:48
She's, they think she's artistic. Autistic. We all think that in the beginning.
15:52
I actually thought that. But then as the movie continues, you start realizing
15:56
that she's working, not willingly, Clingingly working with long legs and so is her mother.
16:03
Yes. Her mother is the one, he's just the marionette and they're her,
16:08
and they're his puppets.
16:09
Yes. But Harker doesn't realize she's a puppet as of yet. Mm-hmm.
16:13
And the mother is clinically depressed because she has to do this for him.
16:18
The only reason she is doing this for long legs to help kill these people is
16:23
because he makes, he made a bargain technically with the devil.
16:26
Yep. And he spared my daughter. that was seen in the beginning of the film,
16:29
spare my daughter, and I will do your dirty work.
16:33
So she goes house to house with these dolls and plans to have these people pretty
16:39
much commit murder-suicide. Yes.
16:43
Inside the dolls, he's a dollmaker. You know, the Nick Cage character,
16:48
his surname's Cobble, isn't it?
16:49
He's basically a dollmaker. Cobbler. Yeah. Cobbler.
16:53
Cobble, I think, maybe, I don't know. but he's basically a doll
16:55
maker who is also satanist and there's
16:59
all this commentary on the whole sort of you know
17:01
devil's music and stuff you know with the sort of the you know the
17:04
t-rex soundtrack and stuff but yeah so he's
17:07
a doll maker who's making these dolls and inside the doll's heads there is this
17:11
orb which contains a little bit of him that that why he's working for the man
17:17
the man downstairs he calls him basically the devil so the dolls are basically
17:21
possessed with a little bit of him, Cobble, in League with the Devil.
17:25
And then whenever they are gifted to these families through the mother character of the FBI agent,
17:34
Basically, the families then become possessed and the father will butcher the rest of the family.
17:41
Now, let's stop there. Okay. There's a question I have for you. Yeah. What's his MO?
17:48
He's just a Satanist. Yeah, I mean, it goes back to the classic,
17:52
you know, we never really find out Hannibal Lecter's MO.
17:55
And the most terrifying sort of villains or killers are the ones where you don't know why they do it.
17:59
You know? Although they do explain it in the later Hannibal Lecter novel and film.
18:03
Him but you know it's sort of that sort of ruins the magic it's
18:06
like you never find out why he does it but
18:09
but all we do know is that it's because he's a satanist and he's in how is he
18:12
picking how is he picking them has to do with their birthdays i know the birthdays
18:16
but how okay january the 14th and that's what's the v for the what for they
18:23
find out that there is it's a v,
18:27
yes and the v that needs to be finished so they're in this code it's an algorithm
18:32
she found out and And the murders track a V, and there's one date,
18:36
the 13th, that needs to be fixed.
18:38
Yes. We find out what the daughter of Chimera, Carrie, does.
18:43
Yeah. Kind of honor that. But what's the V represent?
18:47
Five? No, no. It's an occult symbol.
18:51
So it is. Oh, that's right. I remember that now. Okay. Yes.
18:55
But it's also connected to snakes, and the book of Revelation in the Bible were,
19:02
you You know, basically this beast rises out of the sea with the,
19:06
you know, the serpent rises out of the sea with the many heads and the crowns on the heads.
19:12
He's basically, I think his ultimate goal is to bring about the end of the world.
19:16
And the whole time, because we see bugs and stuff coming from,
19:21
you know, the locked basement.
19:23
He's been living in that house all the time, her house.
19:26
Not her. Is that where his basement is? Yes. Right. Okay. Right.
19:33
Cause you remember when she goes to her, back to her house and the mom kills the cop.
19:40
Yes. And the mom, she gets knocked out. Yes. And she wakes up in the basement.
19:47
Right. Of that house. But it's his. Yes. So he, so he's been using her house.
19:52
Right. Okay. And that's why the basement was always locked. Right.
19:55
Okay. Yeah. It's not, it's not made explicitly clear on that,
19:58
but yes, that makes sense. Yeah.
20:00
Guys, when they, so the mother is like, dressed as like a nun and she goes,
20:06
the church is giving your daughter a gift on her special day.
20:09
And it's these beautifully made dolls, give them credit, he's very talented
20:13
man. Too bad he's fucking nuts.
20:16
But they put the, they unbox them and they have this veil on and there's fucking creepy shots.
20:23
And it reminds me of Roseberry's baby when she looks in the baby's eyes. When.
20:28
It's just a glow and it's quick. You got to. Satan's eyes. Yeah.
20:33
Satan's eyes, these red eyes.
20:35
Yes. And it goes white and then it's just very, very creepy.
20:39
Now that, when you're hearing creepy and atmospheric, that's what they're talking about, guys.
20:44
Yeah. There's no chase sequences in this, but it does have a very seven feel.
20:50
And the reason I say that is because Harker is a lot like Brad Pitt's character
20:54
where she's pretty much the end game. And so is Brad Pitt. Yeah.
20:59
And so that's how I kind of put that together.
21:03
And also the fact that in Seven, the Kevin Spacey killer character gives himself up.
21:10
You know, there's no big shootout or whatever, no big heroic thing.
21:13
And it's pretty much the same here with the Nick Cage killer character.
21:17
You know, gives himself up to the police more or less.
21:19
Yeah, because he's going to self-sacrifice.
21:22
Yes. You won't believe how he self-sacrificed. He won't do it. But...
21:27
See, the only thing that upset me a bit, and it's, it's a big one actually,
21:31
when she goes to the agent Carter's house and she meets, she meets the daughter
21:36
and the daughter goes, would you like to come to my birthday?
21:38
Yeah. And she goes, yes, I would like that.
21:40
She's very good heart Monroe. She's very good in this. Cause she,
21:43
she's, you very do feel sorry for her because she doesn't know how to adapt
21:49
to other people. That's right.
21:52
And she, she, she plays like a robot. Yeah. And that also sort of backs up the
21:58
whole sort of, at first you're led to believe that she's autistic.
22:02
Exactly. But she's under a spell, technically is what she's under. Yes.
22:07
And, but we don't know that. I didn't know that, that she was,
22:12
I knew, there's a great takeaway.
22:16
She keeps calling the mom before we actually meet her a couple of times.
22:19
Or those awkward conversations.
22:22
They are, they were, exactly. And kudos to Lisa Witt.
22:26
She played, this is kind of funny because she looks like Julianne Moore did.
22:30
Yes. In playing Carrie's mom in the remake of Carrie. Yeah. But she's playing
22:34
kind of like Piper Laurie.
22:36
Yeah. From the original Carrie. She's very good in it.
22:40
The actress here, and it's nice to see Blair Underwood getting a good chunk
22:43
of part. I followed his career for years.
22:46
The acting right across the board is top notch here.
22:50
Yeah. And there's only four or five people you got to focus on here.
22:53
Of people. Exactly. So it's not all this big characters you got to fucking follow.
22:57
And so it's, it's very simplistic. Yes. It actually is very simplistic in the
23:02
storytelling, despite, you know, some of the little things I couldn't,
23:07
I couldn't quite grasp, but yeah.
23:10
So when she does go, she, she does invite, you know, yes, go on my birthday.
23:14
I knew right away. Yeah. The writing was on the wall. Okay. Yeah.
23:17
Yeah. Blair, Blair Underwood's in trouble.
23:20
Agent Carter's in trouble. but what works for it.
23:27
Is the anticipation of what's going to happen or when it's going to happen.
23:32
Yes, the tension. Because, see, to be fair to this film, because this is indie,
23:37
and like you said, you know, akin to sort of Thai West, we don't know how this is going to pan out.
23:43
And that creates a great tension where what's going to happen here?
23:46
You know what I mean? Because all bets are off. This isn't like a sort of mainstream
23:49
film where, you know, the hero's going to, you know, save the day and get the
23:53
girl, that type of thing.
23:54
All bets are off here. So there is a tension that's created through not knowing
23:59
what is actually going to happen here. But if you listen to this podcast, you will.
24:03
Yeah. You know what? I'm going to break it down right now, what you just said,
24:06
because the film, now I'm talking about it more. Yeah.
24:10
It's very fucking clever in slowly opening up Pandora's box. Yes.
24:17
And it's all about the conversation Harker has. Yes.
24:21
First, we find out that she sees a master, you know, code breaker. All right. Boom.
24:27
Then a letter is left in her, inside her cabin while she's outside.
24:33
Long Legs has left her. Do not open the letter until the 14th.
24:36
Clearly she opens up that letter, but she tells, she doesn't tell the FBI about this letter.
24:41
And this letter is very key, but she doesn't reveal it to the FBI or coworkers.
24:47
We don't know why. I never knew why, but now we do because there's something
24:52
in her telling her not to do it because it might show her involvement or her mother's involvement.
24:59
Then we meet Carrie Camara. She goes to this mental hospital.
25:04
She is the surviving daughter of one of these murder-suicide families.
25:08
We kind of focus on most of the film.
25:13
And there's even a line in the film going, wow, she was in comatose for years.
25:19
Ears and you show up, boom, she's talking left and right. Yes.
25:22
Because her character has been told by double man to wake up and data dump onto
25:29
agent Harker because we need agent Harker to take this path. It's all cobbles plan.
25:35
Yes. So every little step, every little conversation,
25:41
that's outside the FBI spot, just, just for her and somebody who was involved
25:47
in the current situation or the past murders are planting the seed.
25:53
It's a game of chess. For her to kind of put the pieces together.
25:58
Yeah, and basically Cobble's been doing this plan, you know,
26:01
playing out this plan for like 20 odd years from the 70s.
26:06
Exactly. And my mouse is, there it goes. A stupid mouse. I have a worst mouse ever.
26:11
Right. Worst mouse ever. I bought this mouse and it's, you know,
26:14
wireless because I'm state of the art. Yeah. Right. I'm state of the art here at Citizen Frame.
26:20
But it shuts down if you don't move it after like two minutes.
26:24
I know that. So I got to smack it onto the table.
26:28
Yes. I know that because I used to use a wireless mouse, but I am now back to
26:31
using one with a wire because of that. It did my head on.
26:35
Yeah. Fucking annoying as fuck. What the hell? But this is a bit of an aside, you know what I mean?
26:40
One minute we're talking about satanic murder and next thing,
26:43
Kenan's mouse. Yeah, fucking right we are.
26:47
Jesus. What fucking episode of Citizen Frame have you ever listened to or were
26:53
part of that we'd ever go off topic?
26:55
Well, this is it. And not only that, they're not only getting a top-notch film
26:59
review, they're also getting techie advice. So, you know, that guy.
27:04
Oh, Brandon, what brand is this oh it's tech
27:08
net tech net yeah and the it's a
27:11
it's a k instead of h i went back to having a wire on
27:14
my mouse which sounds a bit rude but you know oh animal
27:18
cruelty animal cruelty yeah but anyway yeah because
27:21
that did my head and because yes it you have to whack it off the
27:24
the mouse pad type thing yeah i know okay let's
27:27
talk about nick's cage character a little bit bit here yes he's
27:31
there's some yeah you know i would
27:34
like to know more about him like but you maybe you say when it
27:37
comes to the villains like michael myers yes less is more right
27:40
really let's let you think about
27:43
you know so i'm okay with that i'll give you an example they in many people's
27:49
eyes including me own they sort of ruined the mistake and the sort of malevolent
27:53
malevolent power of Darth Vader by turning him into a whiny fucking child and
27:58
teen in the Star Wars prequels, you know so,
28:02
you know, less is more, yeah definitely, for me it gives an aura of mystique.
28:10
So when they, when he, he turns himself in. Yes.
28:15
And Harker gets to sit down and talk to him. Yes. One-to-one.
28:20
And he pretty much tells the whole thing that, why don't you go talk to your mother?
28:27
Yeah. Who's my, cause he's trying to find out who's your accomplice because
28:31
there's no prince, no heir, he's never in that house where these people are killing themselves.
28:35
So she wants to know who the accomplice is and He, he pretty much tells you it's your mother.
28:39
It's not a twist guys. You saw it coming, but it is the way,
28:45
and that's the twist he was talking about.
28:46
Yes. So it's not, um, there's even a line where the mother kind of gives it away.
28:52
And again, I like this because yeah, maybe the average goer isn't catching it.
28:57
And so it's a nice, I'm glad that average goers are not catching it.
29:01
Cause then they can appreciate what Oz Perkins was doing. Well, enjoy it even more.
29:05
Yeah. Yeah, and that's another thing I got to pull back.
29:11
You got to, because we kind of caught it, doesn't mean it's a bad film.
29:14
So that's where we got to kind of- Yeah, give it credit.
29:18
Give it credit, exactly. And Oz Perkins wrote and directed this,
29:21
which I never, I don't think I mentioned.
29:24
So the mother, when she goes to visit the mother for the first time,
29:31
the mother asks, always asks her, are you saying your prayers?
29:35
Or he's on the phone, never really responds, just kind of cuts her off.
29:39
And then finally she visits her and goes, are you saying your prayers?
29:42
And she finally looks at him and goes, Mom, I haven't said my prayers once.
29:46
Yeah, she says I've never. And she starts laughing and she goes,
29:50
you're right, prayers don't work.
29:53
Yeah. Right there she was involved because I think.
29:59
Her we talk arcs a lot i she
30:02
doesn't really have an arc it's not really an arc but i think her
30:05
story is sadder it's tragic
30:08
than anyone else's it's right because whenever we see
30:11
the mother back in the 70s she's actually of complete
30:14
sound mind a responsible mother but then
30:17
we see her like 20 odd years later in the 90s and she's
30:20
a complete well she's like lost it she's she's
30:23
basically a lunatic it's guilt yeah oh.
30:26
Yeah but also like not just guilt but the
30:29
fact that she well extreme guilt for all of these
30:32
murders that she is a big part of and a
30:35
clump an accomplice too but also the fact that you
30:38
know she's not just doing it for a serial killer she's doing it
30:40
for the devil himself yeah and she
30:43
was a religious woman yeah and that's another thing
30:46
so she turned her faith on god yeah because
30:49
of this yeah but maybe her
30:52
line prayers don't work is because god turned her back on
30:55
her and allowing this to happen so we don't know
30:58
for her yeah her prayers didn't work for her yes yeah
31:01
so we don't know we just don't know so let
31:04
me get this so when she brings someone when the mother
31:07
brought the dolls to the family that the family's going to be the
31:09
victims yes she then goes takes the
31:13
doll and she hid it in the
31:15
farmhouse is that is that right the pain no
31:18
no i think that was just like a different doll the one
31:21
that she that's found later on i think that
31:24
the dolls all her job really to do is albeit
31:28
a very sort of devastating one all her job
31:30
really to do is deliver the dolls to the possessed dolls to
31:34
the families and then then the family a member of the family usually the father
31:38
becomes possessed and massacres the family so yeah all her job really is to
31:44
do is to deliver the dolls i don't think she comes back and gets them or destroys
31:47
the no she does does she she has to yeah they've never gotten that They'd never gotten the dolls.
31:53
But in the, yeah, well, it's true. They only found the one doll.
31:56
Yeah, and the church with the Camara family, or the Camara, whatever way it's pronounced.
32:01
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. No, her job is to deliver the doll,
32:06
wait it out, because it happens instantly. Yes.
32:10
The father goes nuts instantly. So does the mother, because it hypnotizes them.
32:14
Well, of course. Which we'll see. Yeah. We'll see it with Blair Wonder was for
32:18
Agent Carter's family. Yes. It's instant.
32:20
Yes. So she just waits, and then she takes the doll away.
32:25
So she's basically the Mr. Wolf of this film for Nicolas Cage.
32:29
She's the fix-it lady. Yeah, the clean-up lady. The cleaner.
32:32
Yeah. And the one doll they do find, they planted the seed for her to find that
32:38
so she can start figuring things out.
32:39
Because this is the FBI, and they would have noticed that the connecting thing
32:42
to all of these cases, it would have been too big a clue to leave behind,
32:45
because the connecting thing to all of these cases would have been the doll. So yes, yeah. Yeah.
32:50
Yeah. So we're cool on that. Yeah.
32:52
Yeah. So when Nicholas Cage is, is confessing that it's your mother.
32:58
And he realized he has to take his own life. Fuck, I've never,
33:02
the way he does it and the visuals. It just hates it all, ripping out.
33:06
Yeah, he slams his face about three or four times as hard as you can on the
33:12
table in the interrogation room. And it's brutal.
33:17
And he kills himself technically.
33:21
And obviously, Parker has to run home. She has to run home to get to the mom.
33:26
And that's where we find out the whole story.
33:29
Yes. And, but here's where I get a little confused, but again,
33:33
I think it's what you're saying.
33:35
And I know you love hearing this. It's open to interpretation. Yep.
33:40
So at the end, she's got to rush over to Agent Carter's family's house because
33:46
she forgot, I guess whose birthday it is.
33:49
It's, yep. His daughter's. His daughter's. Yeah. Yeah.
33:52
So he gets there and there's the doll just just sitting there and there's Blair
33:59
and he's quiet, but he's very, he's not this fun, loving father that he was. No, no, he's changing.
34:07
They're all, the mother's kind of clueless because she's hypnotized and the
34:11
daughter's just hugging the doll or enthralled by the doll.
34:15
So she doesn't know what's happening. And obviously agent Carter gets into a
34:19
fight with his wife. Come in the kitchen with me, honey.
34:21
And pretty much kills her. You hear her screaming off camera.
34:24
You don't need to see it guys. It's creepier when you don't see it,
34:27
believe it or not, because she's a lovely woman.
34:29
So you hear this lovely woman being slaughtered and there's nothing you can
34:33
do here. Just hear this like stab noises and stuff.
34:36
Yes. And you hear him grunting and he's a big guy, so he's, he's tearing into her pretty horribly.
34:43
But then he comes out and then she shoots him. She has no choice and she gets
34:48
the girl, she points at the doll.
34:51
The bullets are empty on the gun. Yeah. And she just stares at it and then cut two credits. Yes.
35:00
Do you think she turned? I don't know. But that's the great thing about it. It's left open.
35:06
And I mean, it's the cleverest way to do it as well.
35:11
Well, let me ask you, what's the outcome here? Is Nicolas Cage sacrificing himself at the end?
35:17
And technically what should have happened is the mother, because she kills the,
35:23
I forgot, she kills the mother in the house. Yes. Because he delivered the doll.
35:28
Whenever she was knocked out, whenever she passed out, whenever Harker had passed
35:32
out, Agent Harker had passed out in the mother's house, that's when the mother
35:35
would have delivered the doll.
35:36
Yeah, that's when she woke up in the basement. Yes. And we found out where he was staying.
35:40
Yeah, and that's, and so, but my question is, when he sacrificed himself.
35:47
Yes. he killed himself is was the
35:50
was was the purpose the mother and
35:53
the daughter completely take over the whole thing that
35:56
yeah well i like to think in my head that basically him
35:59
sacrificing himself killing himself in that brutal way it's basically
36:02
because his work is now done he's off to see the man downstairs as
36:06
he calls him and basically the ending is very
36:09
much suggests to me that with her
36:12
not able to shoot to shoot the doll because she's running a bullet you know
36:16
that this is all his final masterstroke of his plan where the little bit of
36:21
him that's in the doll is now she's basically agent harker is now taking over
36:26
his work she will take over his work okay she'll become long legs,
36:32
i mean i could be completely wrong but that's a great thing yeah that's that's
36:36
you just never know No, I mean, you go either way. Yeah.
36:39
And I'm a bleak bastard anyway, so I like my own happy endings,
36:43
especially with horror. Yeah, you are a sick bastard.
36:45
You got that right. Sick bastard.
36:49
So yeah, there's long legs, guys. Do you know why they call it long legs?
36:53
Well, that's what he called himself.
36:55
I don't think he's long legs.
36:59
Well, maybe long legs is- It's the devil. It's the devil, yeah.
37:02
Yeah, I know they're good.
37:03
Because A, the notes being written are technically the words of the devil.
37:07
Yeah. And he's signing it long legs.
37:10
And long legs makes sense because technically the mother and Nicholas Cage are extensions.
37:20
Of the devil. Right? Yeah. Of the devil from the man downstairs.
37:23
Yes. Giving him long legs, if that makes any sense.
37:26
No, no, I would run with that. But also the devil has had multiple names throughout
37:31
time in human history. So, yeah.
37:34
Yep. Well, there you go, guys. What?
37:39
Harvard, sum it up. Give us your overall opinion. Okay.
37:44
Talking about it, I like it more. Yes. And I can appreciate it more.
37:49
I can see really nice glimpses of the filmmakers we talked before this,
37:56
you know, Michael Mann, David Lynch.
37:59
You can see glimpses of his inspirations. You can see his use of music is a
38:05
lot like Rob Zombie does, the place of time that you're in.
38:10
So does Tarantino. know, he puts music to tell you the story,
38:14
you know, the one part of a story structure that he's in or whatever he's doing.
38:19
He, the movie's beautifully well shot.
38:22
And what I like about these shots, he uses the pantoglide a lot.
38:26
I think that's what they're using in this. But a pantoglide,
38:29
as I mentioned with Halloween is, pantoglide's usually used to follow a character
38:34
from behind. It's a POV kind of thing.
38:37
And it's a, it's a steadicam as well. Well, I don't know the whole which is
38:43
which, but in this one, there's a lot of that falling from the front of them.
38:50
So you have a lot of shots with Agent Harker is walking toward us,
38:54
but we're walking backwards.
38:57
So we're just following her from the front of her point of view rather than
39:02
the back, which I kind of liked.
39:04
I don't know why, but it's a famous shot when she's, after the agent gets shot,
39:09
when she picks the house where the father was still alive. Yes.
39:13
You know, the guy, the arrested.
39:14
Yeah, the start. And yeah, the other start there.
39:17
And she comes out of the car and the camera, we just follow her from the front
39:21
of her and she's just walking toward us technically, but we're walking backwards. Yes.
39:24
And it's just her reaction is so...
39:28
There isn't. Yeah. And that was the whole point. The point is, what the fuck?
39:32
How is she not reacting to her fellow agent just getting his head blown off?
39:36
Yeah. Because he's very emotionless.
39:39
And obviously we find out that. There's a reason for it. There's a reason for it.
39:43
But there's a lot of cool uses like that. I am let down by the critics really overselling it.
39:50
I am let down by the marketing of, oh, what's he look like? Yeah.
39:54
Guys, he's a bloated pig.
39:56
It's the hype. And the sad thing is you didn't need to do it.
39:59
Yeah. You really didn't.
40:03
Nicolas Cage is Nicolas Cage at the end of the day. But I'm obviously happy
40:07
to see Nicolas Cage in a big blockbuster.
40:09
This movie's made a shitload of money in the States, and it's still growing.
40:14
I guess it has legs. Yeah. Boom, boom.
40:17
No, I mean, for me- Well, real quickly, I'm not into the occult crap.
40:22
I like a couple of them, but that's more voodoo and stuff, You know,
40:26
the believers and people, what do you call it? Stripper of the rainbow.
40:29
Yes. But this is more, like you said, Satanist. So Rosemary's Baby would be
40:35
a better example, I guess.
40:37
But for a guy who doesn't like that crap, I actually went with it.
40:42
Because what works, and this is going to sound fucking silly and freak boy here,
40:47
Trevor, probably like, oh my God, Kieran gets it.
40:51
I like horror films that teeter teeter horror.
41:01
With reality. And what I mean by that is, yeah, Satan's not coming back.
41:05
He's not coming back in the doll.
41:07
He's not going to take over the mind of the dad. The dad's not going to kill everybody.
41:12
It's silly. Don't get me wrong. But it's played so dead straight.
41:17
Yes. There's no humor in this entire film, guys. These guys play it fucking
41:21
dead straight, and they don't overdo it.
41:24
They don't overdo the shock value and the violence and the gore.
41:28
Or the reason they don't do that is because you walk away kind of seeing this
41:34
because you're like, can this really happen?
41:37
It's almost see it like real life. And I know that sounds funny,
41:40
but that's how well it's shot because it's so grounded in the way they tell
41:47
the story that you're like, fuck.
41:51
Yeah. You know? It's so believable. And in terms of the universe that it sets up, you know, the story.
41:56
Yeah i thought it was fantastic and i would i
41:59
mean and i'm not a fan of hype you know and that's why
42:02
i generally tend to ignore it all you know
42:05
and sort of just go in with as open a mind as i can you
42:08
know without being affected by any hype or you know sort of
42:11
all the buzz around these things but and because let's
42:14
be honest usually we're disappointed but i think that
42:17
the hype was a misdirect as we discussed already
42:20
and i loved it probably for very different
42:23
reasons and the hype was given it if that
42:26
makes sense superb atmosphere of
42:29
dread really nailed that superbly directed and very very atmospheric and really
42:36
get parts of it really disturbing and get onto your skin brilliantly acted i
42:40
would say there is some humor in it from nicholas cage's character but hey it's
42:44
nicholas cage it's going to be a humorous in some sort of way like over the
42:47
top crazy bonkers as humorous,
42:49
but apart from that, played dead straight, grim,
42:52
unsettling horror right up my street.
42:55
This is the sort of thing that's made for someone like me. I loved it.
42:59
Yeah, so, you know, freak boy liked it. So that's the important thing.
43:04
They want to join my cult.
43:06
Jesus. I'd love to see your fucking dolls. It'd be fucking creepy as fuck.
43:10
Well, yeah, well, they'd probably be shit because they're rubbish.
43:13
You'd probably be like, I'm no fucking cobbler.
43:15
You'd probably be like a fucking cabbage patch kid or something that you got
43:18
from some fucking box family.
43:20
But actually, actually, Nicolas Cage does not look on like a cabbage patch kid
43:24
in this, you know? He does. He's got the chubby cheeks.
43:28
He's a big man. yeah he's a pig man yeah the
43:31
bloated face and stuff you know yeah he's basically
43:34
apparently not marlon manson but he's also a satanist as
43:37
is marlon manson arguably oh see there
43:41
go maybe that's what they're going for possible yeah very possible
43:44
yeah well listen guys uh i know i always say at the end of the podcast give
43:50
us a shout you know but i i actually do want you guys to give us shout at citizenframe
43:56
underscore podcast on Instagram or on Facebook and just put your comments down
44:00
of what you thought about it.
44:02
Do you think we're kind of right with the overhype a little bit?
44:05
But keep in mind guys, just because we're saying it's overhyped,
44:07
we're not saying it's very good.
44:09
And I just don't want the film to take a hit because it's overhyped.
44:13
That makes any sense. Yeah. Because you didn't need it to be overhyped.
44:16
Which is right on balance.
44:19
So yeah, run with it guys. Because next up I got a fucking I got Street Fighter So,
44:27
We're going from This to Jean-Claude And Kylie Taking ass and Shabaloo Or whatever
44:35
you call that made up country in the film I'm like Ducato,
44:41
Oh no I'm thinking of Hey by
44:44
the way guys I just put out King Solomon's Mines
44:46
I had to watch that fucking thing three times all right so
44:49
you better fucking listen to that one uh we don't
44:53
have enough downloads for that you better fucking i had to
44:55
watch that thing so you better goddamn listen to it i
44:58
don't care if you have to download it and not listen to it but you better
45:01
fucking do something so i want i want those numbers to go up for king solomon's
45:05
minds agent harker's mother had to basically deliver dolls to murder people
45:10
for the devil but karen had to go even one worse and watch king solomon's Mines
45:14
three times Yep Followed by Street Fighter Even worse,
45:20
Sinister Frame will send you will send you a little gift in the mail.
45:25
Yeah. It'll be a doll. It'll be Ciarán's wireless mouse.
45:30
Yeah, you're all going to get these fucking piece of shit mouse I have to deal with every day.
45:35
Possessed with a little bit of us. No, that just sounds weird.
45:39
Fuck yeah, that's not good. Yeah, that was creepy.
45:42
That was creepy. Leave it to Trevor to end on a creepy note. You know?
45:47
But yeah, guys, yeah, Yeah, also give us a shout to see if you kind of like the structure here.
45:52
We kind of went with it. There's notes in front of me, but they kind of jumbled.
45:56
But I think the conversation went well.
45:58
And we will do more of these, especially these films that come out,
46:02
because I think they deserve a voice. Yeah. And deserve a little praise.
46:06
And a nod of the cap to Oz Perkins and his team for giving us something different.
46:12
Something different. And it's been a good year for horror, you know?
46:16
No, we had something, you know, this was a different kind of a cult kind of
46:21
film or satanistic kind of film, I guess you can say, than the traditional one you usually see.
46:26
And we just talked about In a Violent Nature, which was a different take on the slasher.
46:31
So that's kind of cool. I think we're living through a horror boom.
46:34
I really do. I think we will look back on this period as a horror boom.
46:39
Horror films were, you know, they're not going away.
46:42
They make money. But I like the fact they're not putting them out just to make
46:46
the money. They're doing it for an artistic reason.
46:48
Because I'll tell you what, both those movies I just mentioned,
46:50
they're not sellouts. Yeah. It's the one thing they're not. Yeah.
46:53
And so there you go. Be interesting what both directors of those films do next. Indeed.
46:59
Guys, we're going to wrap this one up. This has been a long one,
47:02
but I hope you appreciated it.
47:04
I hope you enjoy it. If you do see the film and that's all we have.
47:08
Take care of yourselves.