Latest / Foul Territory / Evan Drellich’s report on busted agent/MLB mole texting with commish, Players Way investigation

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Evan Drellich’s report on busted agent/MLB mole texting with commish, Players Way investigation · Foul Territory

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Evan Dralik from The Athletic joining us right now to
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: talk about some pretty interesting topics that were released last
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: week via articles from Evan. You can check those out
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in The Athletic right now. Evan, great to see you again.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Let us start with the two stories you released on
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Jim Murray, who is a longtime player agent who is
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: also i'll say it a mole, a rat, whatever you
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: want to call it, and that has been exposed. What
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: else can you tell us?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: This was a year's long investigation that the MLBPA started
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: really in September twenty twenty three. There was a previous
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: case where Jim Murray's former firm, which is Excel Sports
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Management's run by Casey Close, who's the agent to Derek Jeter,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: basically sued but you have to do that in arbitration
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: according to the agent guidelines, sued this other agency that
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Jim Murray left for WE Sports, which has now gotten
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: out of baseball, and they won big in that case,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Excel Sports Management did and of that Jim Murray and
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: another agent there had broken their contract when they left
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: for Excel for WM. One of the things that came
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: up in that case was an email between Excel Sports
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Management agents right after Jim left, where they're saying what
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: side is Jim on the owners or the players? And
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: someone an agent at Excel accuses him of being a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: mole and in the following two years here starting September
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, the MLBPA gathers all this evidence text, exchanges, emails,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: conversations that Jim Murray was having with Commissioner Rob Manford,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Deputy Commissioner Dan Halem, a bunch of other lieutenants at
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: MLB no a guard in morgan Swort, Pat Courtney, who's
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: the head of pr and Communications, where Jim is essentially
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: funneling information and trying to bargain on behalf of players.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: This is the way the PA portrayed it, when that
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: is supposed to be the job of the union agents
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: in general. I think if you step back, people think, well,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: they are on the player's side of the fence. And
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: what the PA found here is that they had an
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: agent who was basically acting as a double agent, who
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: was giving during very sensitive bargaining times and negotiations in
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty when the sport was trying to come back
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: from the pandemic and there was a whole fight over
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: how much players should be paid. There's one text message
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: that stands out where Jim Murray texts Rob Manford and says,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: don't give in to what the PA is trying to do.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: And the PA in general is trying to maximize what
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: players are paid. And so it's really this microcosm and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: an extreme example of the infighting and politics that can
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: exist amongst player agents, the dislike that they can have
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: for the union, and it is He's not the first
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: agent who's ever dealt with the league. And that was
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the league's statement on this was this is somewhat routine.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I think the nature of what Jim Murray was saying,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: certainly compared to anything I've ever seen covering the sport,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: really stands out as extreme as an example of going
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: behind the players associations back.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know he got banned, didn't He got
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: banned from being an agent, but he can still work
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: as an agent. Is this the worst? I know you
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: just said it's the most extreme, but maybe I should
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: phrase this differently. He got banned, but he didn't really
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: get banned. He can do marketing, but he can't do
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: the whole thing. Is kind of can you explain that
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: a little bit more, and then is this the first
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: time that this has ever happened, because I find it
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: hard to believe that this is the first time that
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: somebody's tried to go behind someone's back in a union
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: like such as the MLBPA to try to get basically
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: money from the commissioner. Down the road.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there was another agent who was recently decertified. That
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: was the Remus Sports case. And he's not the first
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: agent to have his right and ability to be an
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: agent taken away. And there is some nuance here as
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: you're asking agent, let me explain it. The MLBPA, the
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Players Union certifies players. If you are going to negotiate
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: a playing contract on behalf of players, you have to
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: be certified with the union and there's a whole set
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: of guidelines that you have to follow, and if you
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: don't follow them, the PA can essentially bring charges, and
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: that doesn't go into a court of law, that goes
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: in front of an arbitrator. The PA reached a settlement
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: with Murray in this case where he is decertified for
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: four years, he cannot negotiate a playing contract, he cannot
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: make money from a playing contract, so this is the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: very core function of an agent. He is not totally
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: barred from engaging with players. There are four players who
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: he can give advice to, four guys that he had
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: previously that he's still able to talk to that way.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And he can also still do marketing, and there is
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: some money that comes in through marketing. So it is
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: not a total and complete break between Murray and the
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: agenting business. But the settlement agreement, so the agreement that
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: the union and Murray signed several pages long. There's all
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: sorts of other conditions that have to be met and
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: restrictions that are on him. He can't again own an agency.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: If he gets back involved, he's got to pay an
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: additional one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. He's already find
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars. Any agent who is working with him,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: any player's working with him in the future, has to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: sign off that they've read this agreement. They put shackles
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: around him without totally and entirely saying you can't ever
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: do anything in this sport again. But for four years
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: he can't do the main function of an agent. So
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: it is quite extreme. It is not the most extreme
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: outcome you could have imagined, but I think after two years,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the union and probably Murray's camp as well, felt it
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: was time to move on.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Also seems kind of crazy that a player would read
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: this and then be like, oh, yeah, I want to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: represent me. You like me, because there is some explosive
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: back and forth here that people can read in your
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: article to spring up a couple of notable parts. And
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I think this is important, Evan, that we're going over
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: this because there's already distrust, severe distrust between both sides.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: This does not help the cause.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And for fans listening, they want to know, a are we
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: just going to keep playing ball? We don't want all
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: this lockout crap. This doesn't help. So one part I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: want to bring up first is why would Jim Murray
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: do this? And I'll pick out a part from your
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: article about him lobbying to sell advertisements via uniform patches.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: This is a direct text quote Noah Garden, who handles
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of the business for MLB, quote Rob Manfred
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: is going to talk with you about the patch thing
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and me slash us helping parentheses. Therefore I can maybe
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: get a paycheck. So I think that's one explanation as
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: to why someone like this would do that. One other
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: that I'll bring up that stood out to me is
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: how he was, what'd say, pretty vocal about his hate
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of the side that he's supposed to represent. In June
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, Rob Manfred's right hand PR guy Pat Corney,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: asked Murray, how are players, and Murray's response was, f
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the players, I'm still so pissed off. I can't see straight.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: We need them to be pissed at their leadership was
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: with a reply from Courtney, so what are your thoughts
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: on some of the reasons why someone.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Like this would go rogue? Yeah. Reading this letter of
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: discipline notice of discipline that the PA sent out to
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: its executive board, so that's the thirty eight players who
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: get to vote on major union affairs, it's pretty jarring.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: You don't see this level of detail in terms of
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: internal communications, the way agents or league officials would talk
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: to each other. It's very wild stuff to see. And
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: what's in the story is really only a small slice.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: As I understand, what's even in that seventy one page
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: letter of discipline is only a small slice of what
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: the union came cross. Why someone would do this, I
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: think currying favor with the league can do a few
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: things for an agent. Right If you're able to tell
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: a player that you're recruiting, that you have that you
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: are in the middle of these decisions, that all roads
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: are some really important roads run through you, that's a
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: pretty powerful recruiting tool. And I think some agents say it,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: whether it's true or not. But if you can kind
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: of position yourself as above the fray, as exceptional in
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the eyes of the league, that helps you potentially in
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: your business. And obviously your players presumably wouldn't see these
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: types of communications. And the reality of agenting is that,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: you know, agents have different types of clients. You know,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: when the union is fighting for what it perceives to
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: be the greater good overall, Jim Murray has clients who
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: might believe because he encouraged them or otherwise that it
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: is not for the greater good you asked about the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: patch question. These larger agencies, Excel being one of them,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: have different divisions of business that do sponsorship marketing deals
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: with the league, and the lines there get very blurry.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And this is something that the Union has tried to
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: enforce in other areas to some success. But you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: you can have an agency that is representing players in
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: one way and then in another lane is doing sponsorship, marketing,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: patch deals, what have you with the league. And I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: think it's not a leap to say that there can
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: be some perverse incentives here where the marketing side is
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: going to want potentially different things and what the player
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: side is going to want. And in this case, you
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: had a player agent crossing that line himself directly. So
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: it's this window into the complexity and truly inside ball
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: of union politics, of the agent in union politics. It's
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: a very complicated and layered situation, and it's ugly.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Some of this. We're talking about opinions. You bring up
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: a lot of facts. Is there a legal because we
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: have strict labor laws when it regards to unions, is
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: there a legal ramifications that will come out of this,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: not just for Jim Murray, but also for you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: fair contract negotiations that are supposed to be brought to
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: the table. And we have people going behind the back
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: from one side to the other. So is there anything
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: legal from either side, from Jim murray side, or even
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: from Commissioner Manfred and you know Major League Baseball.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: I think the only answer I give there is to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: be seen. Certainly, I wouldn't expect if the union believes
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: that there was some sort of greater violation committed here
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: on behalf of the league for them to disclose it
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: to me before they've brought a case. They kept this
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: thing relatively quiet. I caught some wind of it previously,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: but didn't have enough to report it until they were done, basically,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: and there was a hard document that went out and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I was able to obtain it. But I don't know.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the commissioner and his lieutenants engaging
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: with a player representative that way is in any way impermissible. Certainly,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: the league's position spokesperson Glnton Kappen went on the record
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: for this story and described this as routine and also
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: felt like this was kind of settled business. Right There
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: were grievances that the league and the union both filed
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: against each other regarding these twenty twenty negotiations. What was
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: in question here with Jim Murray got narrowed down to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: what did he do during the pandemic time, and at
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: the league's position is that that's all settled business. We
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: had grievances, we agreed to resolve them, and I assume
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: their argument would be that you can't then bring further
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: litigation regarding it, and the way that would work in
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the same way that if there's an agent issue, it
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: goes to arbitration. That's what would happen with the league
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and the union as well. They have their own arbitration process.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: It would be a grievance, right, We've heard that term before.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if there'll be further action off
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: of this, but I suspect the union is considering all
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Evan one more on this, and just also I spoke
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to some agents anonymously been around for a while and
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: asked them if they felt like that statement was accurate,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: if this was normal, and they obviously laughed hysterically like
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I would never ever go to those lengths. Of course,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they are a communication going on. You know, an agency
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: is a commissioner at the ballpark whatever, That's all cool.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: This is crazy. So to give one more example here
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and again I'm just trying to represent fans and say, hey,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: how does this affect us? Well, here we go back
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. This is in there from your article
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Jim Murray, who we're talking about here. The rogue agent
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: who turned into a mole wrote to Rob Manford directly, quote,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: please do not give in regarding the MLBPA proposed October language.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: You will get the deal done without it. And in
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: your article you wrote the union was trying to put
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: flexibility in the schedule for additional games, thereby increasing potential
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: player earnings. The union wrote in the documents which were
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: obtained by the athletic in your report. So how do
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: you think that affects fans? I mean, that's the part
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to, is we go back to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I remember being pissed, like can we just
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: play ball? There's so much fighting going on. You've got
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: a guy on supposedly on one side of the spectrum
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: telling the other side, like, don't give in on this one.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Hold out.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I did six years ago already an oral
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: history of the nineteen ninety four ninety five strike. And
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: there is an agent, if he's run, Shapiro Unchapira, one
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: of the pronunciations there who described the role that agents
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: had during that nineteen ninety four ninety five strike of
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: shuttling information, and he acknowledged that the player association at
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the time didn't like it, And so I think there's
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: a nuance here of agents are always back channeling to
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: some degree. It is hard to imagine that many agents
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: would be so clearly in the bag for management, for
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: the owners and not for the cause of the union,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: you know, and unions and agents do play different roles,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and they have a symbiotic relationship, and it's complex where
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the agents are concerned about their guys and their own interests,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and the union is supposed to be supposed to be
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: something a little bit more pure, where you're supposed to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: be advocating on behalf of the entire membership and making
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: decisions at the guidance of your thirty eight player executive
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: board that are that are good for all players. And so,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you know, an agent trying to essentially play a negotiator.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: There is a federal labor law element here that is
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: pretty straightforward. Of the union is designated, the executive board
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: is designated negotiator for the players, right, it is not.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody would argue the job of a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: player agent to negotiate a labor deal for players. They
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: negotiate playing contracts. They don't negotiate labor deals, but they
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: have great influence over the players that they represent. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: so I think to your question, how does this impact fans?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: It adds a whole other layer of complication to negotiations
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: that are already complicated. It's not just owners versus owners
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: on management side, and then owners versus players. It's agents
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: at times versus players versus union. It's you know, sometimes
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: people ask me, what's my job? It's really baseball politics.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: This this is as kind of extreme an example of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: politics gone awry, certainly from the perspective of the union
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: as I've seen.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: Ivan.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: You also read another story about the player's way. Can
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you can you talk a little bit about the player's
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: way and in how this became a story also because this,
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, is it under it under investigation now by
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: the because of the way it was handled. What's the
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: deal with the players away?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: So the story, Yes, I basically wrote a summary of
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: ESPN story. They did a good job, Jeff Pass and
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Don Bennetta Junior of reporting this. I did not have
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: this story. There has been, as has been previously reported,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: an ongoing federal investigation into officials at the mlbp A
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and also at at least one other sports union, the NFLPA,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: where we've already seen the head of the NFLPA, Lloyd
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: how Junior, has resigned. When the first came out, there's
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of focus on this licensing company that the
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: MLBPA and the NFLPA together own a combined two thirds
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of called one Team Partners, and they do deals with fanatics.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And there was a long story I did about their
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: board and how they at one point moved to try
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: to grant themselves basically equity. The complication here when you
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: have these companies that are owned by sports unions is
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: that to what degree should labor law apply. It is
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: a question that lawyers and federal government have to sort through.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But there are all sorts of requirements that labor unions
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: have that outside businesses don't. You know, who makes decisions, transparency,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: et cetera. And so basically you are held to a
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: different and understandably higher standard in many cases than an
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: outside business would be. And the union has this arm
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: that's dedicated to youth sports called Player's Way, and this
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: is a pet project of Tony Clarks and the ESPN
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: report in summary is there's been a bunch of money
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: that's gone in there, and they had two anonymous sources
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: questioning where is this money gone, where is it how
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: is it being used? And it all to some degree
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: stems back or ties back to this anonymous complaint that
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: was submitted to the National Labor Relations Department last year,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and this complaint was then sent anonymously to reporters the
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: federal government. Now, the Department of Justice seems to be
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: going through some or at least at least some, if
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: not all, of the different things that were listened to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: this complaint about Tony Clark and the operation of the MLBPA,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: and this is it's a very difficult thing for the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: MLBPA to have to deal with when you're now probably
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: just months away from collective bargaining. You have the possibility
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: anytime you have the DOJ involved, there's at least the
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: possibility of a federal indictment, you know, that could be
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: brought forth against Tony or any of the other officials there.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And it hangs a cloud over everything. And we'll see
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: if indeed the federal government finds that there's reason to
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: move the case forward, but it is it is a serious,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: serious development and something that ultimately, if it does lead
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: to an indictment if it does lead to some sort
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: of change in leadership of the union, could have great
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: impact on collective bargaining. And it's no small matter.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Is it deeper than just you know, a tony thing?
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Is it a brute?
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: Are there the people that are under investigation? Is it
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: always in this case leadership because to me, there's a
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: lot of pieces that there's a lot of player or
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: ex players that get involved with the player's way or
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: different arms of different things. So is it just a
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: leadership that the FBI, I mean, the federal investigation would
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: be would be focusing.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: On You're right, FBI is the right term here. The
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: FBI does is the one looking into this, and the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: prosecutors are the US Attorney's Office, and it's out of
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the Eastern District of New York. I think the intuitive
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: answer here is, uh, they're going to look at everything.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: If you're in the federal government, you're this is a
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: relatively high profile case, right, and the job is to
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: vet anyone and everything with this and see if it
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: lines up with applicable law. And that can take a
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: very long time. There's no real expiration on on this
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: as as far as I know. And the Eastern District
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: of New York has not commented at any point. But
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: you know, if if money is being wrongly used or
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: wrongly allocated, or if it's being done in a way,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: if it's being allocated in a way that's not really
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: in line with labor law. Uh, you know, any any
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: number of charges could be broad. But this is this
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: is a one thing to explain here. This is a
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: very unique situation where you have labor union, a labor
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: union operating other for profit business arms. Typically labor unions
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: don't do that, right. This is relatively unique to sports
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: and it's something of kind of new ground where the
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: MLBPA and NFLPA they all had outside council advising them
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: this would be within labor law. This wouldn't be within
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: the labor law. Even if you make those efforts, it
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean you're necessarily always going.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: To step perfectly.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And so you know, we'll see is there an indictment.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Is the indictment if there is one something very serious
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: or is it something that players would overlook and say,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: you know, we can live with this, but the requirements
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: around spending money transparent yet a labor union, you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: there is an annual financial disclosure form that the union
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: has to file every year. Major LEA Baseball doesn't have
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to do that, right, There is a higher requirement in
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: place for labor unions, and it's we'll see if they
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: followed the letter of the law.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Having great intel, good stuff on this on both stories.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Really appreciate you hopping on. We're here for it, so
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: as more of them coming out, you'll be back.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: We'll talk soon. Okay, thanks guys,