Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Loki S2 with Costume Designer, Christine Wada

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Loki S2 with Costume Designer, Christine Wada · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
I did this quilting of foam, and that quilting of foam expands
0:17
when you put yourself in it, but it gives it that nice texture
0:20
and weight underneath the latex canvas.
0:26
Do you think? I I can't believe it came
0:29
together. Yeah, well, we didn't have a ton
0:31
of time, so we're really like, Oh my God.
0:43
Hello, welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:45
I'm those with Joy Glass. And I'm ATVA agent Spencer
0:49
Williams. Oh, hey, Spencer, how's it
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going? Good, Elizabeth, how are you?
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Oh, you know, I'm just. Living the dream.
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Living the dream, Living that post project.
1:02
Let's clean up our lives. And.
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We have to concentrate. Elizabeth, Our wonderful theater
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costume designer that is a part of the staff here, sent me some
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pictures from her recent production and the costumes look
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absolutely phenomenal. Elizabeth, congratulations.
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Thank you. I'm dying.
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I wish I could be there to see it.
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It'd be so. Fun.
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Yeah, it was fun. It was a lot of fun.
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Some things that I wanted to come together really came
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together. Some things didn't, but we
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worked with it. It all worked out and.
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Looked awesome and it. Was fun.
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So many costumes too. I it was it was a lot more than
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I expected and so much detail. Yeah, For the ensemble, we we
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rented costumes which that was a whole experience within itself.
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Yeah, well, all, all those, all these years of listening to
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other people's processes probably paid off in the end.
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I. Guess yeah, actually it did.
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It did. Definitely did.
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Well that's awesome, congratulations and I'm excited
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to see what's next 'cause this is really cool.
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I'm in love with. It me too.
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How are you? How's your post college life
2:18
going? It's good.
2:20
We were, we were just talking behind the scenes.
2:22
I still feel like I haven't come down from it, You know, I'm just
2:26
like constantly anxious or stressed about things that don't
2:30
exist anymore. So I'm just walking around
2:33
looking for something to do. I, you know, I've had to be
2:36
talked off the ledge of just jumping right into a masters or
2:39
a PhD just, you know, I just need something to fill my, my
2:44
time. So I guess we're all the
2:46
listeners be afraid. I'm probably gonna come out with
2:49
like a Naked and Afraid podcast soon to like, take my mind off
2:53
things 'cause you. Know you know, as long as you
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don't sign up for it, it's all good.
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I was looking yesterday I the link's right on the website.
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OK, well, you should. We should call it The Amazing
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Race. You should that.
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Would be fun, and you don't have to be naked for that one.
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Right. No, and you can eat food but you
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didn't scavenge yourself. They cook it for you, perhaps?
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Perhaps, yeah. I think that would be my hard
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thing. I'm Naked and afraid is I'm not
3:25
good at cooking so well. Actually, maybe this is easier
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because all I have to do is put on the fire and take it off.
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I can do that. I you're a good cook, I just
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don't know if you're a good wilderness cook.
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What have I ever cooked for you? You've I've been at your home
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and eaten things. Now that I'm looking back at it,
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I don't know if you ever have made.
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I've probably ordered out when Elizabeth didn't realize it and
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I just took it out of a box and put on a plate and said
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bonafatite. That like is tracking.
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And like this. This is crazy.
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I definitely just threw my mind back to be like you've
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definitely and I just did not come up with anything.
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I definitely cooked for myself when we were roommates because I
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I couldn't afford to eat apartment down.
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That's true, and I can't say the same for all of us.
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Oh IA random side topic I want to bring up.
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You know how we always talk about, you know, we listen to
4:36
other podcasts and they don't always have to do with costume
4:39
design because there's only so many hours in the day that I
4:41
could dedicate myself to talking about costumes.
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So I have a new favorite podcast called I've Had It with Jennifer
4:51
Welch and Angie Pump Sullivan and it's basically 2 ladies who
4:56
just air grievances for 45 minutes.
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It's perfect. But why bring it up is because I
5:02
was listening to it and at the beginning of every episode.
5:05
Do you know what they do, Elizabeth?
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What did they do? They start with a clap so that
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their editor could get their podcast and sync.
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Like the recording, like our snaps.
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I thought that was something Daniel came up with and I was
5:20
like, oh, other people do this too.
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We're industry standard, except every time you and I do a snap
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to align our vocal tracks, we struggle with our snaps like we
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have arthritis or something. I just think it speaks to our
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level of athleticism. But.
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Why don't we just clap? You know, we could definitely do
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that from here on out. I don't think Daniel cares.
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I I just felt like this is official business.
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I had to bring up 'cause they clapped and I was like, oh, I
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could clap. Why do why do we sit here and
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try to snap? And it usually takes us several
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tries. That's what he told us to do.
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I'm just following instructions. Daniel, please put this on the
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meeting notes. I would like to talk about a
6:08
official clap. And we don't, we don't need to,
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even the audience doesn't need to hear our claps.
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But just know every week, week after week, we sit here and
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really try to get our snaps down.
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And it's just for what? All right.
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That's on the next meeting agenda, Spencer.
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We'll talk about it. Oh man, Speaking of all this
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corporate meeting agendas, the TVA had quite a agenda to get
6:36
through in season 2 of Loki. Oh yes they did.
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They had to change that agenda a couple of times.
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Talk about some just like world shattering information they
6:47
received on a almost daily basis there.
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Yeah, I mean, at least a weekly basis episodically.
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Elizabeth, this week we are talking about Loki once again,
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but this time we're getting into season 2.
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And I love Loki. This is such a good show.
7:06
It was so good it and I don't I don't know, I haven't heard
7:11
anything about a season 3. And if there's not a season
7:14
three, they like wrapped it up perfectly.
7:16
Oh yeah, like. I'd be content with it.
7:19
It was a really nice little like here is the end of Loki with a
7:24
nice little bow on it. Although the other day I was
7:27
thinking like it'd be really cool if somehow like Thor
7:31
dropped into the TVA. Right.
7:34
Had like just the shock on his face.
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I think that Loki like gave up his life to like literally save
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the universe and the timelines. Yeah, that would that.
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Would rock him. I agree with you, I mean spoiler
7:50
by the way for this point forward but you guys knew what
7:52
you signed up for. But I feel like it's rare when
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shows actually like go out on a high and know when to end.
8:01
So that being said, I don't want Loki to end, but if it did I
8:06
would know that it went out on a high.
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Yeah. Yeah, that would be.
8:10
So there's still one more. Yeah, it's they could take their
8:13
time to. Agree.
8:13
I agree. Or I could like, even if like
8:17
just like the story of Loki, like weaves back into whatever
8:21
Thor movies are on the horizon, like I would take that as well.
8:26
Yeah, because Thor also needs a good ending.
8:29
Yeah, Story wise, 'cause I don't think everyone was content with
8:32
the last one. I thought it was fun.
8:35
Oh, I liked it, yeah. Yeah, but it's definitely, it's
8:38
definitely. Not an ending though.
8:40
It's not an ending, but yeah, this is gonna be exciting
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episode because we have a special guest.
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But before we get into it, perhaps I will give us a little
8:51
summary to catch you all up on what the God of Mischief has
8:55
been up to. Yes, and Loki Season 2 in the
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aftermath of the shocking battle for the soul, the Time Variance
9:04
Authority, Loki, along with mobius hunter, B-15 and a team
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of new and returning characters, navigates an ever expanding and
9:13
increasingly dangerous multiverse in search of Sylvie,
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judge renslayer, miss minutes and a truth of what it means to
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possess free will and glorious purpose that.
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Was a great. That was a great summary,
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Spencer. Wow, thank you, I might have had
9:30
a little bit of help but I made some tweaks so it sounds cool.
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It sounds very cool. And with that, let's go behind
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the costumes. We have series creator Michael
9:43
Waldron and costume designer Christine WADA.
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She has literally had a job in every part of the costume
9:53
department, but you will know her from Bridesmaids, for which
9:56
she got ACA Costume Designer Guild nomination 21 and over,
10:05
Constantine Pixels, Altered Carbon, Zombieland, Double Tap
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Our Flag Means Death Season one and the first season of Loki,
10:18
for which she got an Emmy and Costume Designer Guild
10:21
nomination and has been nominated for another Costume
10:25
Designer Guild award for season 2.
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Yes, Christine WADA is killing it.
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And I, I'm just such a fan of her work.
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She's so cool. She has such a unique style that
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she brings to all these projects.
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I mean, we've talked about our flag bean's death.
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That was such a brilliant. Show.
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I haven't seen season 2 yet, but the first season that she
10:47
designed the costumes for were fantastic.
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Yeah, yeah, I am so excited. I'm even more excited to be able
10:54
to talk to her 'cause I I feel like in our first episode with
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the first season of Loki, we were like trying to dig up like
11:01
all her interviews, getting into it and like just kind of being
11:05
like, oh, like I wonder why she did XYZ and now we get to ask
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her I. Like I remember when we did the
11:12
first, gosh, I didn't know if that's season one or season two
11:16
of our podcast. But when we talked about the
11:18
first season, I remember we were like, gosh, we really want to
11:21
talk to Christine WADA. And when we put on our calendar
11:25
like of like people, we want to talk to it just at the top.
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It's just like Christine WADA for like 2 years.
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It just highlighted like must make this happen.
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And this year it just, I just got a e-mail and then it
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happened and now we're good old friends and you're all about to
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hear that conversation 'cause she came and talked with us
11:45
about Season 2 and it was worth the wait.
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Absolutely, absolutely everybody.
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Enjoy our interview with Christine Watta.
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I am so excited. Elizabeth and I have been dying
12:23
for this interview for a while now.
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We are so excited to be joined by Loki costume designer
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Christine WADA. Hey, Christine.
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Hi. Hi, everybody.
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Hi, we're so excited to finally have you.
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We've been talking about your work for a while.
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We love the first season, we love the second season even
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more. So we're just so excited for you
12:44
to finally be here 'cause we have tons of questions.
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So I hope you're ready. Very.
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Ready. Bring it on.
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OK, well, you've now done two seasons of Loki and it's
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arguably one of the more popular beloved Marvel studio shows.
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I would say so. I kind of want to return to
13:02
beginning. What was it like stepping into
13:04
the Marvel's Cinematic Universe, especially working with such a
13:08
beloved, already established character?
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I'd say a bit of both. The challenge is extraordinary
13:15
and it's rare to come across a project where you do get to be
13:18
challenged on so many different levels, both, you know, within
13:21
an existing character, but then being kind of given this scope
13:29
to do expand it and do and play in that arena and, and kind of
13:36
and grow it, right. So it really was daunting 'cause
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I didn't, I didn't necessarily have a huge, I had never, this
13:45
is my first Marvel project. So I felt that I had to do a
13:50
very big deep dive into the whole Marvel Universe.
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And as soon as I did, I realized that like it really gave me the
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foundation because there's so much there.
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It really gave me the sort of encyclopedia to come up with
14:06
such a so many fresh ideas for, for Loki, right.
14:10
So, and the script itself really did lend us a hand in terms of
14:15
where not only like where we could go, but where we needed to
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sort of stay together as in terms of production design, hair
14:24
design, all of it. We really there was also a a
14:27
certain structure that we we created right from the get go of
14:31
the show. So exciting.
14:34
Really is, and one of the things I love is that Loki plays with
14:38
like a lot of different periods and universes, but a lot of the
14:42
series takes place at the extremely charming TVA, which in
14:47
a way kind of defines the show's tone.
14:50
Can you show what your research and inspiration looked like?
14:54
Oh yes. And well, to start that off for
14:58
a fun fact, when we all were hired, the department heads, it
15:03
was interesting that a lot of our research was very similar.
15:07
And we had I had referenced Brazil a lot and there were
15:15
keywords in the script, which was Blade Runner meet Blade
15:19
Runner meets Mad Men. So there was already a nod to
15:24
pushing us into that direction of that mid century tone.
15:28
But I'd say that, yeah, Brazil was a a massive influence.
15:33
We had a tinker Tailor soldier spy was in there.
15:36
We had what else did I feel like?
15:39
It was a lot of architectural references for all my boards,
15:44
like brutalist architecture, a little bit of mod.
15:49
I mean, I personally like to pull from art as well, so there
15:55
is definitely some pop art in there and there's a great book
16:02
called Populux. So there, I had a lot of sort of
16:06
color references from that book. Yeah.
16:10
I mean it goes on and on. I mean, it's, it's so funny.
16:16
It's like a show about the multiverse, right?
16:18
But there's so many different references that you're now able
16:20
to pull in it too. It kind of works hand in hand
16:24
it. Does well, but it also was
16:26
really important to keep it everything somewhat grounded in
16:31
recognizable and real world references so that so that the
16:36
show kept a a timeless element to it and not and didn't take so
16:42
far out of that space. So I think a lot of the
16:48
references were important because they kept us grounded in
16:51
some sense of like what is real and what is functional and what
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in a very analog way. Interesting.
17:00
So Loki is of course about our favorite God of Mischief, played
17:04
by Tom Hiddleston, who we're big fans of.
17:07
He was also producer on a series.
17:08
So we want to ask you a little bit like what was the
17:11
collaboration like between you and Tom and creating costumes
17:14
for this character, someone that you know, he's played for quite
17:17
a while now. Well.
17:19
You start the these projects with Tom bringing the
17:24
encyclopedia of Loki to the table, which is incredibly
17:28
helpful because he's vetted every aspect of of that
17:34
character and the costumes and the arc of those costumes.
17:38
So even though we really never did the Super suit on him, it
17:43
was just a helpful, helpful guide to even these this mid
17:49
century look, because I think he he brings the table an elegance
17:57
and a very rock'n'roll elegant edge to everything.
18:02
And I I think we he collaborates in that he knows how to wear
18:08
clothes and he knows how to work the costume.
18:11
He's a he's a true actor who's completely in his body and is a
18:17
physical actor. So when you give him the tools
18:20
of a costume, he actually really knows how to use them.
18:23
And I would say that that is such a gift to work with an
18:27
actor who collaborates to that full extent, not just in not
18:32
really so much on the front end of the research, but on the the
18:36
production end. And then taking it even further,
18:41
it's, it really helps to make what we were speaking about
18:46
before the idea that that the clothes are also functional.
18:50
It helps to take that to, to the next level.
18:52
Like, you know, he'll pop his collar, the way he uses his
18:56
pockets, the way he adjusts his tie.
19:00
Those are all small but really big things that you want to
19:05
think about when you're designing for Tom.
19:07
And it really, and he really brings it all to life.
19:10
Yeah, I mean, it's so funny to say that, like even the way he
19:13
puts his hands in his pockets is also just like very Loki.
19:17
He just knows how to wear and use these clothes to help tell
19:20
the story of this character, which also was a challenge for
19:24
you too, I would assume 'cause we see a whole new side to Loki
19:27
in this series. He's, you know, he's still that
19:30
God character, but like you said, we don't really see him in
19:32
a super suit this time. It's a whole different Loki.
19:36
So he lost armor. What was your concept behind
19:39
Loki's costumes throughout the series?
19:41
Just as principal look we see him in with all his beautiful
19:45
tailored suits and the rolled up sleeves.
19:49
Yeah, well, it's interesting doing a season 2 because I've
19:52
never done a season 2 before. So you, you, you, you have this
19:57
immediate urge to want to outdo yourself, and then you realize.
20:01
That no, you're telling a story and and this is a character
20:04
that's the audience is very attached to.
20:08
And Tom has definitely got us to a certain place in season one.
20:14
So it quickly became apparent that we needed to keep that sort
20:18
of common thread through season 2 and that sort of let him live
20:24
in that TVA type world for a little bit.
20:27
And even in coming up with the pea coat, I think it's still, it
20:31
had to feel like something that oh, the God Loki might have sort
20:36
of conjured up, but in his version of TVA uniform.
20:42
So with just a little more moxie and somewhat of, of his, of a,
20:50
his, a super suit in a way. It's a, a suit and it's, it's
20:53
armor in its own way, right? That's a fun way to look at it.
20:57
Right. Yeah, but without being
21:01
something that takes him out of the organize, the TVA
21:03
organization and the friends that he loved because you really
21:07
you really want to feel that this is he is making a mortal
21:11
connection to these friends. So his clothes still need to
21:15
feel mortal through the middle part of that the series I think.
21:21
And then then it allows for the for where we end up.
21:25
Right. One thing I've loved watching
21:29
this series is I can tell how much you love fabrics, textiles,
21:33
and colors. What role does that play in your
21:35
process? You are spot on.
21:39
It's a huge part of figuring out the tone of a show and keeping
21:46
it. I mean, the way that a fabric
21:49
catches light, doesn't catch, absorbs light.
21:52
All of those things are still part of how you how a character
21:56
comes across and whether something feels, by the way.
22:00
Also whether it can be aged appropriately.
22:03
And aging is very important to me.
22:05
So in the beginning, it's all about color and fabrics for me.
22:10
It's where a lot of the designs launch from, what the fabric can
22:14
do, like what how, how can it be shaped?
22:16
How can it be destructed? How can it be dyed?
22:19
How can it be manipulated? I also just like the history of
22:24
fabric. I love that the TVA suiting that
22:28
Mobius and Loki are wearing is a mid century fabric.
22:34
A mid century sharks and mohair suiting.
22:38
I love that it's it. It might not, the audience might
22:43
not know it, but I think it just resonates for the actors to know
22:47
that they they really are wearing something that is
22:50
authentic to that period. I think it subliminally effects
22:55
you and and it definitely effects you and how you move.
23:00
So fabric choices to me aren't just always visual, they're also
23:03
how they might either constrict an actor or let them be free of
23:10
movement, or how they might flow behind them or around them.
23:15
So yeah, it's all extremely important.
23:20
And the colour palette was an interesting place to get to on
23:26
this show because originally I it was hard to convince the
23:32
powers to be that it to go with brown because it's not
23:35
necessarily a very, it's not necessarily a typical sci-fi
23:39
color. Yeah.
23:43
But looking at research from that period and getting into
23:49
that late 50s, early 60s and those Browns and those olives
23:54
and those mustards and those oranges, and looking at Kasra's
23:58
beautiful production design, it felt right.
24:02
And it felt that the the the TVA employees needed to feel
24:08
anonymous in that environment. So color became that color
24:13
choice became a big fighting point for me because I thought
24:18
it really lended itself to that, to that autonomy of the TVA.
24:24
Oh, that's so cool. I mean, it, it makes so much
24:26
sense, especially if the brown, it just really makes em feel
24:29
part of the uniform, the uniformity of the TVA.
24:33
It's it's really interesting going into Season 2, one of our
24:38
favorite characters is of course, Sylvie, and she
24:41
undergoes quite a significant development in the season.
24:44
So how did you approach this is designing her costume to reflect
24:49
her evolving character and journey, considering that she's
24:53
starting to blend into society a little bit more?
24:55
But there's still an armor to her as well though.
24:58
Yes. I mean, I'd say it's like a
25:01
reluctant armor. I think that I think I wanted to
25:06
show that she had carried that armor with her, but that had
25:15
gone through many iterations on its way there.
25:20
So and just things that were sort of a nod to the 80s and and
25:28
also just destruction like it, we kind of ripped the whole
25:32
thing apart and reassembled it and stitched it back together
25:35
just so it felt like like maybe in some rampage, she destroyed
25:40
it and then realized she needed it again.
25:44
And the coat was I really wanted to find something that still
25:51
moved and felt heroic, but was 80s.
25:55
And in the 80s there was this kind of throwback to like hound
26:01
suit than the rockabilly world a little bit.
26:03
So instead of having to go to those big exaggerated shoulders
26:09
and get really jokey 80s, I tried to keep it within the
26:13
Sylvie colors and I went more towards those that 80s
26:19
rockabilly look for her. And it also just let let the
26:23
coat have enough swing to it so that it gave her more of a
26:30
heightened performance when she was doing any fights or stuff
26:33
like that. Right.
26:35
I really love that costume because I, I went to the Loki
26:37
fan premiere and gained to see it up close in person.
26:40
Just seeing like the destruction, like the breakdown
26:42
of it. She clearly, you know, really
26:45
this was her favorite outfit and you could just see all the
26:47
little details and the breakdown of it all.
26:49
It's it's definitely one of my favorite costumes.
26:52
Did you did the? I'm curious if the acid washed
26:56
jeans registered? I mean, I think that it was a
26:58
little hard to see because there were going to be moments in the
27:01
series where we would see more of those and we sort of never
27:05
got there. Right, Yeah, I don't know.
27:10
I, I definitely, I see the silhouette of it.
27:13
I think it does. It's just also like the TVA is
27:16
so dark too, you know. So it does like blend in with,
27:21
like you said, the uniformity of the TVA.
27:23
But seeing we're all looking at pictures right now, the audience
27:26
can't see, and I could see it in this light.
27:29
Right. Well, it's an interesting, I
27:33
don't know. I mean, that's it's interesting
27:34
to me. It could bore you.
27:36
But when we decided to go with acid wash pants and I realized
27:42
that I need to make multiples like 10 pairs for stunts and
27:46
stuff, I you can't make matching multiples of acid wash.
27:51
So we ended up having to print acid wash and we cut the pad and
28:00
we printed the acid wash on the pattern pieces and then we put
28:03
the pants together so that it all so all the different pairs
28:07
of pants matched. Right, I could assure you that
28:10
this does not bore us. We are the nerds that live for
28:13
these sorts of details so. I mean, I thought there was
28:16
also. Bobby pins on it too I believe
28:18
on the armband. Yes, yes.
28:20
Yeah, OK. All right.
28:21
Well, that's a good detail. Speaking of detail, Elizabeth.
28:27
This episode is so wild. So the third episode of Season 2
28:32
has Loki and Morbius jumping into Chicago's World Fair in
28:37
nine or 1893, and suddenly it's just this incredible period
28:42
piece. Yet the costumes still have
28:45
hints of their characters and personal styles.
28:49
How did you pull this episode together?
28:53
Wow. Well, I'm.
28:55
Where do we? Begin.
28:56
I know, where do we begin? I mean, I'll just go all the way
28:59
back to the beginning. That for sure.
29:02
It was like we treated the TVAI really wanted it to feel as
29:08
believable as possible, as real as possible so that it didn't
29:12
turn into goofy time travelling. But I think that what made it,
29:19
what pulled it all together for me was figuring out the palette
29:22
and the fabrics like we're talking about before and just
29:25
keeping the palette really restricted, almost as if, almost
29:29
as if you were looking at a colorized black and white photo.
29:33
Because I think in my mind, when I look at period, if I conjure
29:38
up a period that wasn't like in this century, I sort of see them
29:45
in black and white. So or like colorized black and
29:50
white. And I thought it would just
29:53
really lend itself to seamlessly transition from the TVA because
29:58
it psychologically wouldn't be so jolting, like in terms of a
30:02
color palette and being a very like, you know, oh, restricted
30:07
again. I thought it should be
30:08
restricted again as the TVA was so.
30:13
And then finding like Tom and Mobius's fabric was, and even,
30:18
oh, God, Rensselaer's fabric. Oh yeah.
30:20
So difficult, believe it or not, and deny that amount of the
30:25
yardage and and Tom's suit it, you quickly would test the the
30:31
different greens and you would see how it could pop too much
30:34
and would just feel too vibrant and just trying to get the all
30:39
these mid ranges. And there's something
30:43
interesting to me about how those time periods where people
30:46
didn't have as much choice is shadows, the TDA, it's like this
30:52
lack this inability to have much choice.
30:55
And in the 1890s, you can really see it when you do the research
30:58
that people didn't have a lot of choice.
31:00
So all the silhouettes really the same.
31:03
A lot of the colors are really the same.
31:06
There just isn't as much choice. And I really kind of wanted that
31:11
to come across in the civilians. I also was interested in class
31:17
class structure and at the World's Fair because I we were
31:21
in the midway and the midway did have a lot of class, like
31:27
different classes were actually allowed in the midway.
31:29
So and the TVA was structured the same way.
31:33
I was truly trying to figure out ranking within the TVA.
31:38
Oh man, it's such a beautiful episode.
31:40
I remember when a trailer came out, Elizabeth and they were
31:42
texting each other like this is the year we talked to Christine.
31:45
We just have to, it just came out.
31:51
It's I love the idea that it's, it's like looking at a black and
31:54
white picture, just, you know, in color.
31:56
It just, it just felt so real. It didn't feel like campy time
32:01
travel, which is what made it so enjoyable.
32:04
I know it's very tricky to figure that out.
32:06
Through the whole season, we were just because I don't think
32:09
that there's I feel like Loki is is special in the sense that it
32:13
does. It's still is pretty grounded as
32:16
a show so. Yeah, for sure.
32:21
So season 2 introduced OB, played by the incredible Kiwi
32:25
Quan. His character is a master of
32:28
technology and definitely fits into the TVA of it all.
32:32
This costume feels a bit unique compared to all the other TVA
32:36
employees we see. He has his own thing going on,
32:40
so we want to talk to you about OB and what he has going on.
32:44
I know, isn't it just I love key?
32:49
So it really came from, we're in the lower section of the TVA
32:56
now. And there was this sense that
33:00
the lower levels should be backdated a little bit more from
33:04
the upper levels of the TVA. So.
33:08
Right. Yeah.
33:09
So it was a conscious choice to introduce a new palette a little
33:13
bit. Of course, there's always the
33:14
base of the brown, but adding in the the mint and the greens to
33:21
really establish a different a different level.
33:24
And as we were speaking about before this sort of hierarchy
33:27
system, so his, his jumpsuit, his boiler suit is really based
33:34
off of a 1940s boiler suit. And that's, you see like the
33:38
buckle on the back and all the so zippers, buttons.
33:42
And the fabric is herring bone fabric which a lot of those old
33:49
boiler suits were made out of that twill, that herring bone
33:52
twill and and the patches were, I will say Key had a lot to say
34:00
without wanting some patches of. Course.
34:05
But it was tricky to not get it, not have it look too campy as
34:12
well or cutesy because he brings so much character to that, to
34:18
the his performance is so sweet. It's so lovable that you almost
34:25
just need you could we? We were we had to take a lot of
34:28
patches off of it essentially because it sort of became too
34:32
much quickly. Right.
34:35
And also I think there's an underlying idea too, like, you
34:38
know, it goes without saying, we love QA Quan and going all the
34:41
way back to the Goonies where he also plays another technology
34:44
type character. So you don't want to like lean
34:46
too close to that either. You know it wants to feel
34:49
individual and unique. Absolutely, Yeah.
34:53
I mean, I kind of, I'm sad that we didn't get to see the tie
34:57
from the flashback more from him back in time more because we
35:02
based that in a 1940s tie. And I really, I loved designing
35:07
that. It's really, I love those 1940s
35:10
ties, but you don't really get to see it very much.
35:14
Well, you could always just send pictures to me and Elizabeth in
35:16
our emails and we'll look at them with you.
35:22
So when I was at Comic Con this year, I got to see the TVA space
35:26
suit. Well, I, I don't know if space
35:29
suit's the right word for it, but the TVA big suit, I'll call
35:34
it a space suit for just this podcast.
35:37
And I was blown away by the construction of it.
35:39
And it actually reminded me of another favorite costume of mine
35:42
from the 1979 Alien, where they kind of do like this big samurai
35:47
type inspired a space suit. I was just really fascinated,
35:51
fascinated by this construction. So I'd love for you to be able
35:53
to talk about this suit. It is so interesting to look at.
35:57
Oh my God, I'm I'm glad you got to see it up close, because I
36:01
think texture, the texture of it is was a success.
36:06
Getting to the volume. I mean you it was very difficult
36:11
and working with a shop that is is incredibly talented in house
36:18
but very used to doing the slim super suits.
36:22
So trying to give Vince your specialty shop to do this scale
36:29
and make something so awkward and to also go against
36:32
everything that you generally want to do in a say, superhero
36:37
suit, which is make it functional, make it so they can
36:40
do stunts. I just wanted this to be as but
36:43
awkward and uncomfortable to wear as possible without them
36:47
suffering, right? Which is a big deal because I
36:50
care a lot about the actors being able to be comfortable
36:56
heat wise, so and weight wise. So I, I mean, I think we
37:03
probably went through like 20 versions to try to get it up to
37:06
this size. But really the clincher was I
37:11
knew I wanted to make it modular because that way in between
37:16
takes we could they could cool off.
37:19
So the scale of the chest, we just weren't getting there
37:24
without it collapsing. And I just remember standing
37:28
with this costume for hours and also click that if I made that
37:33
armhole, the ring really big, and I made it something that
37:39
could swivel off so that we could take it off between takes
37:43
so they could cool off through that, it would actually allow me
37:46
to get the circumference of the suit and it would hold the
37:49
circumference in shape and keep that volume.
37:52
So I think that was a really turning point in figuring out
37:57
the construction of this costume.
37:59
And there are these consensual rings inside of the legs and the
38:04
sleeves to keep everything expanded and cylindrical in it.
38:09
Because, you know, really, when you move an arm or a leg, things
38:12
want to collapse in when they're that size seems.
38:15
Like an impossible challenge, but.
38:16
You want to. Pull it off.
38:18
It's a really it's it's so funny because so many people have
38:22
asked me if it was CG all CGI in the show and it was actually
38:27
almost all practical and that was the aim of the show. 1st and
38:32
2nd season is tried is to try to, as we said, analog to try to
38:36
do as much in camera as possible.
38:38
So there's actually the aged suit.
38:41
We did an aged one that's a real eight, that's real aging in the
38:45
show. And, and it's predominantly the,
38:50
the suit itself and the, the fabric, the reason it has kind
38:56
of that density to it. I found these great 1950s scuba
39:03
suits where they do this quilting.
39:07
They did this quilting of foam and that quilting of foam
39:12
expands when you put yourself in it.
39:14
And so that's these are all on little 8 by 12 looms.
39:20
It's quilted in this channel quilting, but it gives it that
39:23
nice texture and weight underneath the latex canvas.
39:28
That's. So much that's amazing.
39:31
I I can't believe it came together.
39:33
Yeah, either. And yeah, we, yeah, we didn't
39:36
have a ton of time. So we were really like, Oh my
39:39
God, yeah. How many do you think there
39:42
were? We made we only could make four
39:45
or five. Oh, OK, yeah.
39:47
All right, because I kept turning into spaghetti.
39:50
I'm guessing so. Yeah, there was.
39:54
Yeah. 1234, Yeah. Five.
39:56
Yeah. So there was a hero, one that
39:58
was not spaghettified and then there was a spaghetti semi on
40:04
its way to being spaghetti suit. So wow, that's.
40:10
Incredible. What was also incredible was the
40:14
finale for Loki called Glorious Purpose incredible.
40:21
It ends with this really beautiful scene of Loki taking
40:25
charge of his life in destiny, which in turn saves the lives of
40:30
his friends and his costume returns to this God like form
40:34
that we've seen before. Could you tell us a little bit
40:38
about this look? Yes.
40:40
Well, fun fact is that the Cape was one of the first things
40:47
samples I tried on Tom, like months and months and months
40:52
before we started shooting because I wanted to know how he
40:58
felt about something very flowy and organic and wise, how he
41:03
would move in it. And he instantly was attached to
41:07
the that that feeling of something because you've always
41:11
seen Loki previously very armored up.
41:16
So there was intent here. My intent was to have it feel
41:22
humble and to have it feel godly, but humble.
41:27
The crown somewhat of a burden. And yeah, I think organic is
41:34
just probably the best word for it.
41:37
And he it was interesting when he put that well back to the the
41:43
Cape. It's like when he put that on,
41:46
it just instantly made him move differently.
41:50
I mean, he just and it, it was a little somber, right?
41:55
There was something a little somber about it, and.
41:58
It gave you all an endpoint too. You knew where you were working
42:01
toward, too. Yeah, and we tried so many other
42:04
versions of a Cape, by the way, so many different things.
42:08
But the front of that is actually quilted and then has
42:18
like little embroidery points on it, like a King's Cape, because
42:23
I did want there to be a little bit of a nod to to a king.
42:31
But yeah, it was those horns were no joke.
42:34
They're huge and they were really hard to keep on.
42:39
But the other, the other practical part of that Cape is
42:44
that because it goes over the front of his shoulders, a lot of
42:50
what you see in the final show is, is the actual Cape in the
42:56
wind, which rarely happens because usually capes spin the
43:01
wind and it has to get CG Ed. So I think part of what feels so
43:09
genuine about that final sequence is that we actually
43:12
really do get to see this organic movement of fabric.
43:17
It isn't it isn't just a computer generated thing.
43:21
And I I think it really fits for this humbling God moment.
43:28
And the shoes were an interesting thing too, just to
43:31
keep it like to see skin, I thought would be kind of
43:35
important, like to just show a little bit of vulnerability and
43:39
to make sure that we didn't get into the the God of armor and we
43:44
got into the the, the God of of like humble purpose.
43:49
I love that. I love that.
43:52
Looking back on Loki and all of the love from the fans who
43:57
continue to discover and rewatch the series, I'm about to go
44:00
rewatch it. What does this mean?
44:03
What does this series mean to you?
44:06
Wow. I, I just think it was one of
44:11
the best journeys both collaboratively, creatively.
44:20
I'm so inspired. It made me so reinvigorated
44:24
about costumes and what we can do and how it can be this
44:31
incredible like you're never done learning.
44:35
I wish, I wish that I could just always work with this team.
44:38
I wish we could, but I wish we could just take on new
44:41
challenges all the time because it I think it taught me that
44:45
with the right people, you know, you can really tell a story,
44:50
care about the content and care about how it looks and care
44:56
about characters and also have some glamour and glitz.
45:02
I think it's like really just a perfect converging of time and
45:13
talents Makes sense for this. It really does.
45:17
It really It really, I think there was a moment in the show
45:21
where we all just knew we were doing something special.
45:23
First season. Yeah, I mean it, it's beautiful.
45:26
It's definitely one of, if not my favorite Marvel series and
45:30
it's beautiful. And I'm that's over.
45:33
I kind of, you know, still I haven't fully accepted that's
45:36
over. I'm hoping maybe we get
45:38
something again in the future, but for now, I'm just excited
45:41
that we get to just rewatch a show and it's just so fun to
45:44
watch. And a lot of that is due to your
45:48
and your team's incredible costumes.
45:49
So thank you so much for talking to us about them.
45:51
And congratulations on the CDGA nomination too.
45:57
So well deserved. Before we let you go though, we
46:00
asked you behind the scenes if we could ask this one question
46:03
too. We are also big fans of your
46:07
work on our Flag Means Death. We did a podcast about it.
46:11
Gosh, what was it, Elizabeth? Like 2-3 years ago when the
46:13
first season came out and we thought no one was going to
46:16
listen to this episode and we got so much like love for that
46:20
episode. So now that you're here, would
46:23
you just mind saying a few words about your experience with
46:26
everyone's favorite pirate romance?
46:28
Oh my God. I mean that God, that was such
46:35
first of all, it was a whirlwind because it was so many costumes
46:38
to do in such a compressed amount of time and the turnover.
46:43
And that is so different than doing, say, Loki, right, Like
46:46
you're doing new episode every 10 days.
46:48
And but it was the kind of the perfect marrying of research for
46:55
me because I do kind of have a East Village history.
46:59
So it was like 80s East Village. A lot of reference, my
47:03
references were from like the music scene and the art scene
47:07
and the world of the, you know, 80s East Village mixed with
47:11
pirates. And it was like, just go for it,
47:13
Christine. Just go for it and be
47:15
anachronistic and be playful and have fun.
47:21
And I mean, working with Tyka is a dream, you know?
47:26
He just. Yeah, I mean, he's so funny.
47:28
And, well, that whole cast, the whole cast was impeccable.
47:33
I mean, and I really love playing with the idea of like,
47:38
how do you not have it look like Pirates of the Caribbean?
47:40
And like how you talked about palette before, like really
47:43
figuring out like what colours, how I could make it colourful
47:47
without it feeling too like sitcom, too much like a sitcom,
47:54
right? It's just like it's really
47:58
similar to Loki where it's if you just create this, these,
48:01
this world and you do your research, it's like it's really
48:04
easy to just start designing because you know, exactly like,
48:07
OK, these are my reference points.
48:09
Like in Loki, it's like it's kind of mid century meets Brazil
48:14
or Blade Runner. And this, it was like, it's like
48:17
pirates meets the East Village in the 80s, right?
48:21
Like, and so as soon as things came up, I could just sort of, I
48:25
knew exactly where I wanted to go.
48:27
I was like, oh, I want to look up Patti Smith.
48:30
Oh, I want to look up, you know, it's just really, or maybe it
48:33
was Prince or maybe it's, it was just very fluid from there and I
48:39
could design on the fly. And I, you know, I mean, that's
48:44
that leather suit for Tyka. He I only have one fitting on
48:48
for him. That.
48:50
Was it so? That fits like a glove, too.
48:53
That. Was a win a win?
48:55
Yes, yes. And I think he.
48:57
I think that was my favorite costume from the episode.
48:59
If I remember, that was my one costume with them all.
49:01
It's so good. Yeah, I think people are
49:06
petitioning to bring it back. They are, yeah.
49:09
And this isn't that episode for that, but I will caution
49:13
everyone to please fill out that petition as well because I would
49:17
like to bring it back. Costume is on your Christine
49:20
WADA. Thank you so much for joining
49:21
us. This has been such a joy.
49:22
We're big fans. And thank you so much for taking
49:25
the time to talk with us. This has been so much fun.
49:27
Thank you you guys, I'm so glad you love the show shows.
49:33
Thank you, Christine. Thank you.
49:50
Hi, this is Dan, audio engineer of the podcast here to let you
49:54
know that if you wanted to support the show, you can head
49:57
over to the Art of costume.com/POD store.
50:02
There you can buy some awesome tea public merch with the
50:05
podcast logo such as a shirt, coffee mug, stickers, and of
50:10
course a baby onesie. Thanks for all your support.
50:35
Spencer worth the wait? That was so worth the wait.
50:40
Christy WADA is so dope. Hi, Jess.
50:45
I like I it was so good. I especially loved when she
50:48
talked about the big, the big suit to go into the time stream
50:53
like that. The fact that that's a real, a
50:56
real just thing that exists in the world.
50:59
Like, yeah, I had such a good time talking about Sylvie's look
51:04
and of course, I mean, talking about working with Tom
51:07
Hiddleston, but then just talking about the whole Chicago
51:10
World Fair episode. It's such a masterpiece.
51:14
And the fact that they just had to like, throw in this basically
51:17
brilliant period film in the midst of this season, it's just
51:21
such an incredible feat. And I I could listen to
51:24
Christine talk forever. Actually, since that little
51:28
interview, I've I've ran into her in public like 2-3 times and
51:33
like, she's so cool. I've got to hang out for quite a
51:35
little bit. And yeah, I'm just so thankful
51:37
she came and talked to us and I'm looking forward to perhaps
51:41
the next time we might might have some ideas for the future.
51:44
So we'll see. Yeah, so exciting.
51:48
But with all that, Spencer, I don't know about you, but I
51:52
think we should play our favorite game.
51:54
I'm ready, kind of. No, I'm ready.
51:56
Let's do it all. Right.
51:59
Hit it, Daniel. The one costume to rule them
52:05
all. Spencer, what's your one costume
52:11
to rule them all? So OK, I my one costume to rule
52:23
them all. I have to say it's probably
52:25
gonna be Sylvie's look throughout Season 2, just with
52:30
like the armor underneath, but she has that great coat on top
52:34
of it. And I think I brought this up in
52:36
the interview, but I saw it in person at the premiere at the El
52:42
Capitan Theater. Seeing it up and close, you
52:45
could see like lots of Bobby pins in it and just kind of
52:48
like, you can see the wear and tear on it.
52:50
But she still has such like a cool kind of like grunge
52:53
aesthetic to it. It's really quite a fascinating
52:56
piece and I just thought it was really cool.
52:59
I wish I got more screen time actually in the series, or at
53:02
least more up close screen time. But it's really such a great
53:07
look. But I mean, I feel like I have
53:08
lots of honorable mentions in this episode, like.
53:15
The. The finale look of Loki and also
53:18
just entire the entire world fair is my honorable mention
53:22
really. I I will second that That is the
53:26
honorable mention of the Art of Costume podcast.
53:31
Yeah, we just, it's official, no arguments.
53:36
No, no, I I love this for your choice 'cause put this in like a
53:41
darker green or a black and I could see you just like walking
53:44
around LA like that, Spencer. Absolutely.
53:48
I also love that she has like two whole outfits.
53:51
She just knows what she looks good in, and that's what she's
53:54
gonna wear. Oh yeah.
53:56
Oh yeah. 'Cause that looks badass.
54:00
What was your one costume with them all?
54:02
Oh my, one costume to roll them all was Loki's final look.
54:09
I thought it was so cool. Like, especially, like the way
54:14
it like, like fluttered in the wind and like, was like whipping
54:19
around him, like the horn crown, which I'm like, this is like the
54:23
ultimate version of every like horned crown he has had up to
54:29
this point because he's had several.
54:32
And it was just like, it was just so cool the way it worked
54:37
with the environment he was put in.
54:39
And like, the special effects. I was like, this is just like a
54:43
tiny little masterpiece. And then he sits in the chair
54:46
and the way it just, like, all like falls around him.
54:48
I was like, yeah, this is, this is Loki to the Max.
54:53
Yeah, it's so cool. And it's just, I love, it's
54:56
just, it was such a good moment for like everyone who's been
54:58
watching Loki since, gosh, I don't even just a character, I
55:02
always know how long we've been with this character at this
55:04
point that Tom Hilson's been playing.
55:06
And it was just just such a great moment.
55:08
And I love that as he becomes this, you know, God with his,
55:13
you know, ultimate glorious purpose.
55:16
I almost feel like his costume kind of Harkins back to, like,
55:19
the actual mythology of Odin as well, too.
55:24
And that really translates into him as he sits down on this
55:27
throne or chair. Yeah.
55:30
It's just such a great costume. I like, you know, you could pick
55:34
several costumes from the season to be the one cost you roll them
55:37
all, and you would be right. And this is definitely one of
55:40
them. Absolutely.
55:42
And if you would all like to tell us your one costume to
55:45
roll, roll them all, you can definitely leave us a little
55:49
voicemail at 626-515-1826 or e-mail us at
55:55
theartofcostume@gmail.com. Spencer, what's next week?
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Our next episode we are going to a very familiar space for us as
56:09
since the almost beginning of our podcast, actually, I don't
56:13
remember season one, but definitely since season 2 for
56:18
every May we have been talking about a Star Wars film and to
56:24
conclude our original trilogy. Our next episode is about Star
56:28
Wars, Return of the Jedi. I'm so excited because each of
56:33
these episodes have been so much fun.
56:35
You have so many behind the costume facts for these, so I'm
56:39
ready to go. So it's gonna be a great
56:42
episode. I'm very much looking forward.
56:44
I think this is probably my favorite Star Wars film.
56:47
No, I think I said that last year about Empire Strikes Back,
56:50
though, so I don't know. They're all great.
56:53
They're all great. It's definitely out there and I
56:56
am just so excited to dive back into the Star Wars world and
57:02
talk about this again. Like when you talk about iconic
57:06
films like Star Wars, every single one, yeah, is is iconic.
57:12
So it's just fun to like, explore and dive into them.
57:16
Yeah, I'm so excited. And with that, if you would like
57:20
a little bit more, if you're not done with Loki, you're like, I
57:23
want to listen to this episode again.
57:26
Might I suggest that on YouTube, every Wednesday, the day after
57:31
episode's release, we post that episode on YouTube so you could
57:35
watch along with some visuals, see a cute little picture of
57:40
Elizabeth and I and our special guests.
57:43
You'll go to youtube.com slash at The Art of Costume and don't
57:48
forget to also follow us on Instagram at the Art of Costume
57:51
Pod. TikTok at the Art of Costume.
57:54
Hoping that TikTok doesn't get banned soon 'cause that'd be
57:57
really sad. But let's make it worth it while
58:01
it's still out there. Please follow us and don't
58:06
forget to head to our merch store.
58:07
It's starting to get hot outside.
58:09
I will always admit that I don't know how to dress when it starts
58:12
getting hot. So I think what we should all do
58:15
is head to the art of costume.com/pod store.
58:18
Get ourselves some podcast T-shirts that that will help
58:21
complete your your wardrobe for the summer.
58:25
And as always, please, please, please, please, please give us a
58:30
great rating on Spotify and or leave us a five star text review
58:34
on Apple podcast because it really does help and also makes
58:39
us smile and looks better than that.
58:42
Yeah, just just hop on. If you love us, just hop on,
58:46
right? A few few sentences.
58:49
Right, just like a nice warm hug or if you want to tell me off,
58:53
please do. So just make sure you leave a
58:55
five star review. Like that's, that's fine too
58:58
'cause that also makes me smile. Five stars can say whatever you
59:01
want. We've been told we have
59:05
Kardashian like voices so you. Can I just read that review this
59:10
morning and it made me bust up laughing again.
59:15
Thank you, that was really sweet of you.
59:17
But that was not a five star review, so if they could go back
59:20
and edit their hate complaint with five stars, I'd very much
59:23
appreciate it. Yes, everybody have a fantastic
59:28
week and we will see you shortly.
59:32
May the Force be with you. And you as well, Spencer.
59:41
The Art of Costume podcast is hosted and produced by Elizabeth
59:46
Joy Glass and Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
59:51
editing is done by Dan White. Follow us on TikTok at The Art
59:55
of Costume and Instagram at the Art of Costume Pod.
1:00:00
If you want to support the show, go to theartofcostume.com/POD
1:00:05
store for more podcast updates. Costume reviews, deep dives and
1:00:11
interviews go to theartofcostume.com, A blog
1:00:16
dedicated to highlighting the best in costume design.