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Gary Responds to His First Hate Mail · Dishin' Dirt with Gary Pickren

0:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, guys, we've reached a milestone here at Dish and Dirt, monumental achievement, something I've been working really hard toward for five long years.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: 300 episodes, thousands of hours of research, hundreds of controversial opinions, countless warnings to real estate agents telling them not to do stuff that they probably know already they shouldn't be doing.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: And finally, just finally, somebody got mad enough at me to go on Facebook and complain.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Yep, that's right.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: I got my first hate mail.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, technically it really wasn't hate mail, it was more of a Facebook post, but I'm gonna count it because at this point I got to take what I can get.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Seriously, what does a guy have to do in this industry to get somebody really mad enough at them to go on lame ass Facebook and do a post?
0:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for years I've been trying.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I've criticized broker-to-broker compensation, I criticize private listings, I criticize mortgage steering and attorney steering.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I criticize agents interfering with agency relationships, and I even criticize some of the most ridiculous things that some builders and builder agents do.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And I even did an entire series called Dumb Shit Real Estate Agents Say.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: But nothing.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Crickets, nothing.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: I started to wonder whether I was even doing this podcast correctly.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Because you know the old saying, if you're taking flack, you got to be over the target.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, apparently I've been flying it all around for five years over South Carolina with nobody firing a single shot.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: So it makes me think maybe I lost my edge.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was edgy.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was getting soft on you guys.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: Because you'd like to tell you what I think about what you do.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: So maybe I was just getting to be an old softy in my old age.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe dish and dirt had become one of these lame ass podcasts where everybody just sits around and agrees with everybody else talking about how wonderful real estate is.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: You know the kind.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: You're amazing.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're amazing.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: No, your brokerage is amazing.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love your brokerage.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: You got cool colors.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, somebody's out there in the background putting together another class action lawsuit they're gonna file against you.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: But then last week it happened.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Finally, it happened.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: My first real public complaint on Facebook.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Facebook, so it does suck.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Nobody actually looks at Facebook anymore.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: But I gotta tell you, I was emotional.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, honestly, I wasn't angry.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: No, I wasn't offended.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: I was actually proud.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, I called my wife, I said, Emily, somebody finally hates the podcast.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: And she said, Gary, plenty of people have disliked you for years.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: They just never went to Facebook to tell anybody about it.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, you know what, that's a fair point, Emily.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: But this was different.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: This was professional hate mail.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: This was an achievement.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And today we're gonna celebrate that achievement because apparently, after 300 episodes, I finally said something that somebody didn't want to hear.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't be happier.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna discuss that and a whole lot more on this episode of Dish and Dirt.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: This is Dish and Dirt with Gary Pickering, South Carolina's only podcast dedicated to the real estate agent craft.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And now the host of Dish and Dirt, Gary Picker.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm your often opinionated, but rarely wrong host, Gary Picker, coming to you from the beautiful downtown Columbia, South Carolina offices of Blair Cato, Pickering, Casterline, this, the fourth week of October.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Now, before I get into this Facebook post, I need to explain why this is such a big monumental deal for me.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Because up until now, I had a really bad problem.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: People kept saying the nicest things about my podcast.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And frankly, it was getting kind of embarrassing.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, not really embarrassing, because I do have a very healthy ego, as you know, and I'm perfectly capable of accepting even more compliments.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: In fact, if you want to send me another compliment, there's my email address right there.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: So go ahead and send me another email.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Tell me how wonderful I am if you need to.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: But listen to some of the crazy things that these people have written about me that just, quite frankly, are embarrassing.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Here's one.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: I want to personally thank you for all that you do to contribute to the industry.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Your podcasts and videos are always on the most relevant topics and best practices.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: I use your videos and training in our company Facebook.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: That's funny if you think about it.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: And at Sales Meeting, you rock.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: That was awful nice of a broker in charge to tell me that they use me on Facebook.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Here's another one.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: And this one's especially interesting because it comes from a top agent at the same brokerage as the hate emailer.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Excellent podcast this week.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: We've been in total agreement with you on this since it was first brought up to us several weeks ago via Compass slash the name of the brokerage, which I delete.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Great job to you and to the commission.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's interesting.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: It's the same corporate family that we're talking about today, but apparently not everybody at that company got the memo that they're supposed to be offended by dish and dirt.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: And then here's another one.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Man, this one's just terribly embarrassing.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your education of the agents in the state.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: It appears to me that there are a lot of new agents in our market who are not getting trained otherwise.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Many companies, of course, are still training their agents, but I fear many are really not giving them the education they need.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: You all deserve to be making money hand over fist.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, I could not agree with that statement more, because you are truly supporting our business and professionalism.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: And the person who sent this to me, I just really respect her so much that this one really made me very happy.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: She's been in the business for a long time, and for her to say that, yeah, very, very humbly.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: So that's the kind of emails that make a guy feel pretty good.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And I've been very fortunate to receive these messages like that on a pretty much regular basis, almost every week.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: But here's the problem.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: At some point, you have to ask yourself whether you're actually making a difference in this business or whether you're just telling people what they want to hear.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Because those are two very different things.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: And this real estate industry has an awful lot of people who are very good at telling agents what they want to hear.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Everything's fine.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't worry about the lawsuits.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Your broker knows best.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: We've always done it that way.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Our corporate attorneys have approved it.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: The association says it's okay.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And here's my personal favorite: everybody else is doing it.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, everybody else doing broker-to-broker compensation.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: How did that really work out for you?
5:28
SPEAKER_00: My problem got even worse because I received word that the 2027 Women's Council of Realtors upstate board has just recognized Dish and Dirt as the best real estate podcast in South Carolina.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: And we previously had been recognized as the number one real estate podcast in South Carolina two years running, and one publication even ranked us seventh nationally amongst real estate podcasts as good for realtors.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Seventh?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Really?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Seventh?
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So clearly I got six people to deal with, or either some more people to hand some money out to.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: But seriously, I'm getting these wonderful messages, I'm receiving these recognitions, and agents are telling me they're using my videos in training, particularly brokers in charge, which is pretty cool.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: But I'm thinking, what does a man have to do to get somebody to complain?
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Do I got to start insulting your dogs?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Do I got to start making fun of Clemson football?
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't really go that far.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: I have some standards, but I will make fun of Clemson football.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: And then just when I was about to just lose all hope on it, crappy Facebook delivers.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: There it was, my first complaint.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So, all right, let's go ahead and take a moment to talk about what you've all been waiting for.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Let's read my first hate mail.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: And I wish I had some dramatic music, something really cool.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: But I do want to be clear about this.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to identify the agent.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to even identify her brokerage because this isn't about embarrassing somebody.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: It's about the argument that was presented.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And the argument is so good.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: And by good I mean spectacularly wrong good that it deserves its own episode.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: The Facebook post begins I really respect and love the real estate agents that we work with on a daily basis.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a great start.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: I like some real estate attorneys too.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: I like Philip, Jason, David, I have no problem with any of these guys.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Um actually am a real estate attorney, so I think we're off to a wonderful beginning.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: But then she writes, there is one particular firm that we used to refer all our business to.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy, I think I know where this is going.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, well, she didn't really send any business to us, but I really do appreciate any business she ever did.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: But if the price of receiving referrals is that I'm not allowed to express an independent professional opinion about the real estate industry, then we probably need to have a different conversation because that's not how this crap works, guys.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: And no, we have not done many closings for that agent at all, although she often calls our office for advice.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: But then she continues, unfortunately, I feel like he is making a point to throw our brokerage and others under the bus instead of trying to help.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Wait, what?
7:43
SPEAKER_00: What brokerage?
7:44
SPEAKER_00: I threw your brokerage under the bus?
7:46
SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating, because I have a question, since I've never mentioned your name or brokerage name ever in 300 episodes.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: When did I do that?
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Where?
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what episode?
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Can you give me a timestamp?
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Can you give me a quote?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Because to the best of my knowledge, in 300 episodes of Dish and Dirt, I've never once called out any, any single brokerage by name to criticize it in South Carolina.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Not a single South Carolina agent or brokerage have I ever criticized.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Not once.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, I have talked about Compass, but Compass has no offices in South Carolina.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And I have certainly talked about Robert Refkin a whole lot.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: But criticizing Robert Refkin's position on the multiple listing policies is not the same thing as attacking every brokerage that is associated with Compass's tremendously large umbrella.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: And here's where I think the story gets funny because apparently we're now going to play the six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Let me explain this corporate family tree if I can.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Robert Refkin is the CEO of Compass.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Compass acquired anywhere real estate.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Those brands include Colwell Banker, ERH, Century 21, Better Homes and Garden, et cetera.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: And this particular brokerage is actually not even owned by one of those.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: It's actually a franchise, so it's independently owned of those brokerages.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And that company has multiple offices, and those offices have multiple real estate agents.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere in that corporate family tree is this agent who wrote this Facebook post.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: So apparently, when I criticize Robert Refkin and Compass for threatening to sue the multiple listing service over its rules, I am now attacking an individual agent of a brokerage, franchise brokerage, mind you, in Columbia, South Carolina.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: That's remarkable.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: That's actually, you can't make this up.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm closer to Kevin Bacon than she is to Robert Refkin.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: And I've never met Kevin Bacon.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: That's how absurd that statement is.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: As if I criticize a CEO of General Motors for a corporate decision they make, I'm somehow attacking a salesman at the Chevrolet dealership in Lexington.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: If I criticize a CEO at McDonald's, am I attacking the guy who made my egg McMuffin this morning?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Hell no.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm criticizing the corporate decision.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And here's something else.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to agree with every decision made by people who work above you.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I would argue that sometimes you have a professional obligation to disagree with them, particularly when those decisions may actually conflict with the interest of your clients, and you hold a license to protect those clients.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's what this entire debate's about.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: It's nothing to do with ERA agents or COEL banker agents or C21 agents or better home and garden agents.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: I've represented, I think, all four of those brokerages at some point in my lifetime.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: I've represented about every brokerage in South Carolina, every major brand at least.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm representing several of them right now, several different brands.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: But some of our top best agents, I know, work at those companies.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: But Robert Refkin doesn't get a free pass from criticism because his company owns brands with thousands of hardworking agents way down the line.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: And neither does other corporate officers when they start pushing crap to you agents.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: That's not how accountability works.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And if discussing his public statements makes somebody uncomfortable, maybe the appropriate response is to examine Robert Refkin's statements and not attacking the person who discusses them.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: But here's something else I find fascinating, and this happens all the time.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I do a podcast about something agents shouldn't be doing.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's steering to mortgage companies or attorneys, maybe it's broker-to-broker compensation private listings, maybe it's a brokerage putting its financial interests ahead of its clients.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: And inevitably, somebody somewhere says, Gary, you're talking about our company.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: You need to stop.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a guy here in the Midlands who seems convinced that every time I criticize any practices, he thinks I'm talking about his brokerage.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: He actually told me I need to stop talking about his brokerage one time at lunch.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's a guy in the upstate who is also convinced those same podcasts that the guy in the Midlands thinks I'm talking about him, he thinks I'm talking about his brokerage in Greenville's Spartanburg.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And then occasionally I usually get somebody from a city where we don't even have an office.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Hilton Head or Charleston called me and going, Why are you talking about our brokerage?
11:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know you, dude.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: So how the hell am I talking about you?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: But they always think I'm talking about them.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting to think maybe I should turn this into a game show.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Who thinks Gary is talking about them this week?
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Because here's the thing.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: If I do an episode saying agents shouldn't steer clients toward affiliated businesses for the broker's financial benefit, and your immediate reaction is he's talking about us?
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's interesting.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say your name.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: You did.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I've never said a brokerage's name in a negative light.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Praise Jim, but I've never said one in a negative light.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: But maybe that's worth thinking about.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: It's like somebody walking into a room and said, whoever stole the cookies needs to put them back, and then one guy immediately jumps up and says, I didn't steal the cookies, why are you accusing me?
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay, buddy, nobody's accusing you, but now I'm curious why all of a sudden you jumped up and started yelling.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to the Facebook post, because that's really what we want to talk about.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Because the next part is where we get to the real issue.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: She says I'm throwing brokerages under the bus instead of trying to help.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Instead of trying to help.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is going to be fun because apparently I've misunderstood what I've been doing for the last 31 years.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: I thought I was helping agents.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was wrong.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Maybe spending decades teaching continuous education courses wasn't helping.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe writing and teaching about contracts wasn't helping.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Maybe serving on industry committees such as the Seller Disclosure Forum and other task force wasn't helpful.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping develop the South Carolina Realtors Showing Agreement and working it to combine with the brokerage relationship form, maybe that wasn't helping.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Huh.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Maybe working with Rhea Smith, past president of South Carolina Realtors Association, to try to get broker-to-broker compensation to go away.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that wasn't helping either.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Maybe working to address investor practices that are harming vulnerable sellers and taking business out of real estate agents' pockets.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that wasn't helping either.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping clarify the rules surrounding interference with existing agency relationships, maybe that wasn't helping either.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And apparently, explaining why merely asking, are you working with an agent doesn't necessarily give you permission to interfere with another agent's existing agency relationship?
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that wasn't helping either.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: I thought all those things were pretty useful, but perhaps I must have misunderstood.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Perhaps helping somebody means something differently.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping means telling every brokerage that everything they're doing is wonderful.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping means never questioning your company's policy.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping means agreeing with your broker in charge regardless of whether that policy creates risk for individual agents.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Maybe helping means keeping your mouth shut when something just doesn't look right.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, if that's the definition of helping, I guess she's absolutely correct.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm terrible at it.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: And I intend to remain terrible at it because I didn't spend 31 years in this industry to become somebody's corporate chairleader.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: I want agents to succeed.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I want brokerages to succeed, and I want our industry to thrive.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: But I'm not going to watch agents do dumb shit that can get them sued, that can get them disciplined, and cost them their license and pretend everything's fine because your brokerage doesn't like the fact that I call them out.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: That would be the opposite of helping you.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: So let me address another part of this.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: The suggestion that I just criticize brokerages, clearly not true either.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: You guys listen to Adition Dirt, you know that.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: When a brokerage does something that I believe is good for an agent or consumer, I'm happy to recognize it.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Remember when ERA Wilder Realty moved away from broker compensation, and by the way, they're an anywhere brand as well?
14:51
SPEAKER_00: I praised them publicly.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: I invited Tony Nally on Adition Dirt and discussed why.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Because I thought they were doing something very important.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: They were addressing a practice that I believe created unnecessary legal risk.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted other brokerages to hear about it and to emulate them.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: So let's be clear.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: This isn't about whether your brokerage agrees with Gary Pickering, though they should.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: It's about whether the policy makes sense.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Does it protect consumers?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Does it comply with the law?
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Does it protect the agent?
15:17
SPEAKER_00: And if you do something that I believe is right, I'll praise you all day long.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I'll call your company out by name.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: I've called Leo Perez, EXP out by name.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I called ERA out by name.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing something I believe is wrong, I'll criticize the practice.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But I've never called your name out, never called the broker out, never called the brand out.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'll explain why.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: It's not personal, it's called having a consistent position.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't care what logo is on your building.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I care what happens inside of that building.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Now let's talk about something a little bit more serious.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Remember the Sitzaburnett Commission lawsuit?
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Hope you haven't forgotten it.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Because we lost a$1.78 billion verdict in October of 2023.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And what had agents been told for years?
15:55
SPEAKER_00: This is how the industry works, a standard practice.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: The lesson should have been very unmistakable for you.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Long industry standing practice is not automatically a legally safe practice.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And the policy doesn't become immune from scrutiny because your broker, your brokerage, your association, or your competitors have followed it for years.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: That's why I've been so vocal about broker-to-broker compensation.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I've warned you about steering, and that's why I've warned you about affiliated business relationships, and that's why I've warned you about private exclusive.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Not because I enjoy criticizing people, though a little bit, but because we've already seen what happens when an entire industry convinces itself that everything's wonderful.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And here's what really concerns me we seem determined to learn that lesson all over again.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Different practices, different lawsuits, same mentality.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about it.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Everybody does it, our company approves it.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Somebody files a lawsuit, then everybody's going to start hiring attorneys.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Now I want to give you an example of why I talk about these things.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes ago I saw an email that an agent sent from a brokerage office.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: The message as I saw it, encourage an agent to send more business to the preferred lender because the brokerage had a financial relationship with that lender, and additional business would generate more money for an office Christmas party.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Now I love Christmas and I love celebrating, but if you're telling agents to direct consumers toward a lender because your brokerage expects a financial benefit, I have some questions for you.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And you should have some questions too.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Because the first question should always be, is the lender the best choice for this client?
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Not, are they going to pay for the shrimp cocktail and alcohol at the Christmas party?
17:19
SPEAKER_00: That's not how your fiduciary duty works.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: So when I talk about these practices, am I trying to hurt your brokerage?
17:25
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Did I name the brokerage by name?
17:26
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Did I name the broker by name?
17:28
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Did I say what agent sent emails so that you would know where it came from?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: No.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to keep agents from getting caught up in something they may not fully understand.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Because the agent who makes a recommendation is the person who's going to be standing in front of the consumer.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And if the consumer later says that they were steered toward a lender or an attorney because of a financial relationship, who do you think is going to have to answer that question?
17:48
SPEAKER_00: The individual agent, maybe the broker.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: All of this could have been avoided by making sure the client's interest came first.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I discuss these issues.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's what helping looks like.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes help sounds like praise, sometimes help sounds like warnings, and sometimes help even sounds like please stop doing this before you get sued.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: But in doing so, I've never named a broker and I've never named a company.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to throw you under the bus when the name of the bus company is never given.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Now I want to say something that might upset a few brokerage executives as I go on today.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: I might actually get my second piece of hate mail.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: I do not believe that the brokerage brand is the most important thing in an agent's career.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: I believe the agent is.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: The agent's their own brand, their own business.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: They're the one who builds the relationship, they're the ones who earn the client's trust, answers the phone on Saturday night, shows up to show houses in the rains, they're the one who negotiates the contracts and keeps people from losing their minds.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: They're the one who helps the family negotiate through the largest financial transaction of their entire life.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Now, the brokerage does provide support.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, they're providing supervision, resources, technology, training, and other valuable services.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: And those things matter.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: But your clients generally choose the agent because they trust the agent and not because they have some deep emotional attachment to some sign outside the door.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I get concerned when agents become so loyal to a brokerage that they can't stop to question whether the company policy is even in their client's best interest.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Your brokerage can be a very important part of your success, but that's not your identity.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And it certainly is not a substitute for your independent professional judgment.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: I've watched many successful agents change brokerages.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I've watched many successful agents start their own companies.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: When I tell agents to think independently, I'm not attacking their brokerage.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm reminding them of their own value.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And if somebody in brokerage management doesn't like hearing that, well, maybe that'll be the subject of episode number 301.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Now here's where the story takes an interesting turn because while somebody in Columbia was getting upset that I was discussing private listings, steering and brokerage practices, and offending them, two United States senators were also discussing some of these same very issues.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: On October 15, 2026, Senator Corey Booker and Elizabeth Warren sent a letter to the Federal Trade Commission urging, urging an investigation into potentially anti-competitive and deceptive practices on online home buying marketplace.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And what were the two practices that they identified, you might ask, Gary?
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, among other things, steering consumers toward affiliated mortgage lenders.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Where have we heard that before?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Could that have been, I don't know, Gary?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: And the anti-competitive use of private listings.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: You mean two senators actually criticized what Robert Refkin and Compass was doing?
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Wow, can you imagine?
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, look at this.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Apparently Corey Booker and Elizabeth Warren have been listening to Dish and Dirt.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: That's the only explanation.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: I knew I had listeners outside of South Carolina, but I didn't realize that senators were now listening to me.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously I'm joking, but the concerns here are serious.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Private listings and restricted marketing exposure, first thing they talked about.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: So now we got U.S.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: senators raising concern about the private listing practice as well.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: And their letter describes concerns that private listings may restrict access to available housing inventory and distort competition.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: So think about that.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: We're not just talking about a disagreement between Gary Picker and Robert Refkin.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: No, we're talking about federal lawmakers, senators, asking the FTC to examine these practices.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, a request for an investigation is not necessarily finding a wrongdoing.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's suggesting that, but it's a very clear warning that these practices are attracting some very serious attention.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: If I was an agent working at a brokerage who's pushing this, I don't want to understand exactly why.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Not just because my broker said it was a good idea.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I want to know why, because I have a responsibility to my seller.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And the second thing they were talking about was steering toward affiliated lenders.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: The senators raised concern about consumers being directed toward affiliated mortgage lenders.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is yet another issue I've been discussing repeatedly.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: The senator's letter raised concern that some consumers may be directed toward affiliated lenders without adequate transparency, or they may even receive less favorable loan terms.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know who else might have said that before.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Could that have been, I don't know, me?
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Simply allegations, policy concerns, and they do require investigations and our conclusions.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: But the broader point's important.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: The financial relationship surrounding a real estate transaction does deserve scrutiny.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And agents should understand them because if you're recommending services, primarily Because your brokerage financially benefits, you might be creating legal and ethical problems for yourself.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's what agents need to understand.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be a test case.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be a person who discovers that your brokerage's legal interpretation was wrong.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be the person explaining to an investigator that you should simply follow the policy of your broker in charge because they told you to do that.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: It's not a very good defense.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: So when I discuss these issues, I'm not trying to create problems for the industry.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get agents to recognize problems before they become much bigger problems for themselves.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps the appropriate response is to pay attention because the next person who asks questions might not be a podcaster, it might be a federal investigator.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Now let's return back to the Facebook post because the accusation was that I criticize agents and brokerages rather than trying to help them.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: So let me offer you some help.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Free of charge, mind you, from a guy who has spent 31 years working in this industry.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Number one, stop doing dumb shit.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: I know sophisticated legal analysis, whatever, but it covers an amazing amount of ground.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing something that seems designed primarily to benefit your brokerage rather than your client, stop and ask questions.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: If somebody tells you you have to steer a client toward their particular mortgage lender or attorney, you need to ask why.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: If somebody tells you that a seller should keep a property off the MLS, ask about how that benefits the seller.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: If somebody tells you that a buyer has to use a particular service provider, ask what law or contract requires that.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: And if somebody tells you we've always done it this way, understand those words have appeared in the background of many expensive lawsuits.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Number two, your broker in charge is not a substitute for your professional judgment.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Let me be clear, I have a tremendous amount of respect for good brokers in charge.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: They have very difficult jobs.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: They carry significant supervisor responsibilities.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And the best ones are invaluable.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: But being a broker in charge does not mean every instruction is automatically correct.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And being a real estate agent does not mean that you blindly follow the instructions that conflict with your legal obligations.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Something doesn't sound right, ask questions, get clarification, seek independent legal advice when appropriate, because ultimately you have responsibility that does not disappear simply because somebody at your brokerage gave you an instruction.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Number three, your fiduciary duty belongs to your client, not your brokerage, not the affiliated title company or mortgage company, not the private listing network, not your revenue goals at the brokerage, your client.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean that brokerages can't earn money.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: They certainly can.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: That's why we exist.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: But when the interest of the brokerage and the interest of the client diverge, the agent needs to understand where your legal duty lies.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: And number four, actually listen to what I say.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: This one's really important because if somebody tells you that Gary Pickering attacked your brokerage on dish and dirt, here's a very revolutionary idea.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: How about actually listen to the episode?
24:35
SPEAKER_00: It's free.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: You can find it pretty much anywhere, including YouTube.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: You obviously found this.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Listen to it for yourself.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Don't rely on somebody else's interpretation, and certainly don't rely on what somebody told you at the sales meeting that I said.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Don't rely on the office rumor meal.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: Actually listen to my words because I've discovered that sometimes a version of my podcast that gets discussed at your brokerage meetings is considerably more exciting and controversial than the version that I actually recorded.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: And number five, remember that you're a professional, not just a representative of brand.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Your brokerage is important.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Your relationships are important.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Your reputation belongs to you.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Your license belongs to you.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Your career belongs to you.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: And you need to protect those with everything you have.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Because maybe you'll work for three or four different brokerages over the course of your career, but you only get one professional reputation.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And if you lose your license, changing the sign on the building ain't gonna help you fix anything.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: So that's the point I want you to remember.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: You are the one who may have to live with the consequences.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And so when I tell you not to do something, maybe I'm not trying to hurt your brokerage, maybe I'm trying to protect you.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Now let's get to my favorite part of this entire thing, the ending.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Because after criticizing me for supposedly throwing her brokerage under the bus, the agent gave a special shout out to several other real estate attorneys.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I know and respect many attorneys in this industry, including attorneys at competing firms.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: If an agent has a great relationship with another firm, that's wonderful.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: That's how business works.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Clients and agents should choose the attorneys they trust, not offended by that.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think it's great that agents appreciate their closing attorney.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: But then it comes that final line, and this is a line that really made me stop.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: She praises those attorneys for, quote, continuing to earn our trust and focusing on what's important.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Focusing on what's important.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Now that's a fascinating statement, guys, because apparently what's important to this agent is making sure nobody gets upset, making sure that everybody stays happy, and making sure the relationship is comfortable.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, let me tell you something that is important.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Keeping your real estate license, pretty important.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Protecting your clients, also important.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Avoiding a lawsuit, very important.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Understanding your fiduciary duties, that's extremely important.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Not steering consumers towards service providers simply because somebody at your brokerage has a financial interest, that's important.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Not participating in questionable marketing practice simply because your brokerage wants you to, that's important.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: And not blindly following policies that could expose you to disciplinary action.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Now that's really, really important.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Because here's the thing if you get sued or someone files a complaint against your license, the fact that your closing attorney always told you what you wanted to hear isn't going to be particularly comforting.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: You know what I want from my attorney?
27:00
SPEAKER_00: I want my attorney to tell me what I do wrong.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: I want my attorney to tell me if I'm doing something that's legally dangerous.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't want an attorney who simply agrees with me.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Good attorney isn't somebody who tells you that everything you do is wonderful.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: A good attorney is somebody who wants you to avoid trouble.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that means saying things to you that you don't want to hear.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it means disagreeing with you.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it means telling you that the policy that your company is trying to get you to follow for years needs to change.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it means saying, that's really a stupid idea.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: But the alternative is waiting till you get sued and then explaining to you why you got sued, which nobody really cares about then.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: So I simply refuse to do that.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: So let me tell you something about the way I view this industry.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: I love real estate.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: I love real estate agents.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: I spent most of my life working with them.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Some of my closest friends are real estate agents.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: Some of the smartest people, most hardworking people I know are agents.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And I believe this industry provides an incredible valuable service to consumers.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: I've been arguing that since the Burnett.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: But loving an industry does not mean pretending it has no problems.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think the opposite's true.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: If you really care about something, you should be willing to criticize it when it needs to improve.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: That's true of any business.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: It's true of professional organizations, it's true of government, and it's certainly true of real estate.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: This industry has faced enormous legal challenges over the last several years.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: We've had commission litigation, we've had questions about agency relationships, we've had dispute over MLS access and private listings, we've had concern about affiliated business arrangements, we've had federal lawsuits raising questions about competition and consumer protection.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And through all of this, there are still people who think the most important thing is making sure nobody criticizes their brokerage.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand that.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Because the legal system doesn't care whether your brokerage feels appreciated.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: A consumer filing a complaint doesn't care whether your office has a positive work culture.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: A regulator isn't going to dismiss a violation because everybody at the sales meeting says the policy was fantastic.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: The law is the law, your duties are your duties, and the obligations to your clients don't disappear because the company had a great recruiting presentation.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: So, no, I'm not going to hand out Kool-Aid.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to tell every agent that everything that they're doing is fine, especially when I believe something needs to be changed.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not going to ignore warning signs because discussing them might upset you.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm certainly not going to stop criticizing Robert Revkin's approach to the MLS system because an agent at a company several corporate layers removed from him thinks I'm somehow talking about her and her brokerage.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: That's simply not going to happen.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: I want to offer some advice to anyone who listens to Dish and Dirt and thinks I'm criticizing their company.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: First, thank you for listening.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Second, before you get upset, ask yourself, did I actually mention your company?
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Because if I didn't, you're immediately assuming I was talking about you.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's worth examining.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was describing a practice that occurs throughout the industry.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was discussing a public policy issue.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was criticizing a national executive.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was talking about something that has nothing to do with particular brokerage.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And maybe just maybe.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: The reason it sounds familiar to you is your company is doing something similar.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: And if that's the case, don't get mad at me.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Ask whether the practice needs to be changed.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Because here's something I find fascinating.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: When I talk about questionable practices, the agents who aren't doing it generally don't get upset.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: They say, thanks for explaining that, or I'm glad somebody finally said it.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Or we've been trying to get our brokers to address this for many years.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: But occasionally somebody gets very defensive.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: And I always wonder why.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: If the criticism doesn't apply to you, why are you upset?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing everything correctly, why do you think I'm talking about you?
30:11
SPEAKER_00: If you think I've gotten something wrong, then just tell me.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Show me the statute.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Show me the regulations.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Show me the legal authority.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Explain the reasoning.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I welcome the discussion.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Been wrong before.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: I'll probably be wrong again.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Hell, my wife tells me I'm wrong often.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: But let's have a discussion about the issue.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Not a discussion about whether somebody's feelings got hurt, because I don't care about that.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Because I criticize the company policy.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: It's two very different things.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: So let me close by saying something to the person who wrote the Facebook post.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Seriously, thank you a lot.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: You've given me something I've been waiting for for literally five years to receive.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: My first real public complaint about Dish and Dirk.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: 300 episodes.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: And finally, somebody decided it was worthwhile to tell the world that Gary Pickering had upset them.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've finally arrived.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether there's an award for this.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should frame the Facebook post, put it next to my podcast awards, the best real estate podcast in South Carolina, two years in a row, sorry, Nick Chromitis.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Seventh best real estate podcast in America.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: First agent to publicly complain about Gary.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, the last one might be my favorite because it tells me at least somebody is trying to pay attention.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, I would prefer that people actually listen to my episodes before they criticize them.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: That would be helpful, but I'm not going to be picky.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: At this point, I'm just happy that I got the hate mail.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: And to be clear, I have no hard feelings toward that agent who wrote it.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't even know the agent personally.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: I've never done a closing with that agent that I know of.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: I have no reason to dislike her.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: I hope she has a tremendously successful career, and I hope her brokerage succeeds.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: I hope every agent in her office succeeds.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: But I also hope that they understand something.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: My job is not to make your brokerage feel good.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: My job as an attorney, an instructor, an industry commentator is to tell you what I believe you need to know.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's going to be good news, sometimes that's going to be bad news, and sometimes it's something you already know, and sometimes it's something you really don't want to hear.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to keep saying it because I would much rather have an agent upset with me over a podcast than have the same agent sitting before the real estate commission trying to explain why they followed a policy of their brokerage that violated their professional obligations.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: And that brings me back to that final line of the Facebook post, the one about attorneys focusing on what's important.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree with you more.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: We should absolutely focus on what's important.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: But here's where we apparently disagree.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: What's important isn't making sure your brokerage likes what I say.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: What's important is making sure you protect your clients, protect your reputation, protect your livelihood, and protect your real estate license.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: That's only when you got.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Because your brokerage can change his policies.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Your brokerage can change his name, can change its ownership.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Hell, Robert Refkin can buy you.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: But if you lose your license, none of that matters.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: And if telling you that makes me the bad guy, then I'm perfectly happy to be the bad guy.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: After all, it took me five years to get my first hate mail.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm certainly not going to stop now.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And to everybody listening, if you disagree with something I said, send me an email.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Tell me where I'm wrong.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about it.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, thoughtful disagreement.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: But please, for the love of everything that is holy, actually listen to the episode first before you complain, because I can defend what I actually said.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Defending what somebody at your sales meeting or your broker or somebody higher above your brokerage claims what I said, and I threw you under the bus, that's a whole different job.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: And frankly, I just don't have time for that nonsense.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's all the time I have for this episode Edition Dirt.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed it.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: I thoroughly enjoyed it.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: It's probably my most favorite episode ever out of the 300 plus episodes I've now done.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Take care, come back and see us and watch another episode Edition Dirt.