Latest / Left of the Projector / Box Office Drop! 28 Days Later: The Bone Temple (2026)

Transcript

Box Office Drop! 28 Days Later: The Bone Temple (2026) · Left of the Projector

• 0:15
  Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
• 0:18
  Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.
• 0:21
  Track 1: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
• 0:23
  Track 1: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.
• 0:27
  Track 1: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts.
• 0:30
  Track 1: And at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com, you can grab one and show everyone
• 0:34
  Track 1: you've got the best taste around.
• 0:36
  Track 1: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified
• 0:39
  Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.
• 0:43
  Track 1: Hello, this week on Left of the Projector, we are bringing you another fresh
• 0:47
  Track 1: from the box office, a box office drop.
• 0:49
  Track 1: We'll be discussing the new Nia DaCosta film, 28 Days Later,
• 0:55
  Track 1: The Bone Temple, which is the second in a new trilogy from the original series.
• 1:01
  Track 1: It stars, of course, Ray Fiennes, Jack O'Connell, Alfie Williams,
• 1:05
  Track 1: Aaron Kelman, and Chai Lewis Parry. It was written by Alex Garland and,
• 1:10
  Track 1: of course, produced by Danny Boyle, who created the initial film 28 Days Later.
• 1:15
  Track 1: I have Bill with me today. How are you doing today?
• 1:18
  Track 2: I'm doing well. Snowed in as you are, I believe.
• 1:22
  Track 1: Yes. Everyone up here in the Northeast, lots of snow going on.
• 1:26
  Track 2: Honestly, I think it's most of America right now.
• 1:29
  Track 1: Yeah. Or if they're not snowed in, they're just like deeply frozen and it's
• 1:33
  Track 1: negative 8 million degrees.
• 1:35
  Track 1: Yeah. But this film is, I was, well, let me, we didn't do an episode on the 28 days, 28 years later.
• 1:45
  Track 2: No.
• 1:46
  Track 1: And we don't need to necessarily talk about that. But I'm wondering,
• 1:49
  Track 1: being that the two films came out so close together, do you think that was a bad choice?
• 1:55
  Track 1: I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they think it was, but only because the
• 1:59
  Track 1: first one didn't do as well as maybe they thought. And then now this one is
• 2:02
  Track 1: suffering because of it.
• 2:03
  Track 2: But I'm curious to why people think that waiting would have made that made an impact on that.
• 2:11
  Track 1: Yeah. I mean, the theory I heard, and again, this is like from people who are
• 2:15
  Track 1: like really into looking at, you know, how much movies make and all these things
• 2:19
  Track 1: as indicators of anything other than nothing.
• 2:22
  Track 1: Is that because the first one didn't do well, they're like, oh,
• 2:26
  Track 1: I just see another movie with the 28 days later.
• 2:28
  Track 1: Like, why would I go or 28 years later? Like, why would I go see that if I didn't
• 2:31
  Track 1: really like the one before it?
• 2:33
  Track 2: I mean, I don't really like, I don't really get that.
• 2:36
  Track 2: Um, I, I mean, I also don't like, you know, track, I don't try box office shit.
• 2:42
  Track 2: I'm like, you know, you know, I mean, I've watched every 28,
• 2:45
  Track 2: you know, every movie in the 28 days later, like, you know, franchise.
• 2:49
  Track 2: I, I do think that 28 years later, I don't think it matters that it came out
• 2:54
  Track 2: close to it because honestly, any of the problems people had with the 28 years
• 3:00
  Track 2: later, they're going to have the same problem upon temple.
• 3:03
  Track 2: This movie is in the same vein as Bone Temple. I mean, I'm sorry.
• 3:08
  Track 2: Bone Temple is in the same vein as the first 28 years later in many ways.
• 3:13
  Track 2: So anybody that doesn't like the first one isn't going to like this one.
• 3:17
  Track 2: It's going to suffer from the same misunderstandings and honestly misconceptions regardless.
• 3:26
  Track 1: Yeah, I liked this one more than 28 years later, and I liked the first one.
• 3:31
  Track 1: Like, it was good. But I do know a few people who didn't like the first one
• 3:35
  Track 1: who actually did like this one more.
• 3:36
  Track 1: I mean, maybe they didn't hate the first one, but they definitely like this
• 3:39
  Track 1: one more, which is interesting because in some ways, I hate this term, but like, less happens.
• 3:46
  Track 1: Like, it's a very short period of time, and there's sort of two simultaneous
• 3:50
  Track 1: plots that are happening, and then they sort of mix together.
• 3:53
  Track 1: And if you'd seen the previous one, you start, you basically like,
• 3:56
  Track 1: it takes all, it takes place immediately after the first one ended like days
• 4:00
  Track 1: later, if not the day later or something.
• 4:02
  Track 2: Yeah. If you've not seen the first one and then you go see this one,
• 4:07
  Track 2: like you're, you're going to be confused. Like, like you, I,
• 4:11
  Track 2: I don't think this movie stands alone.
• 4:14
  Track 2: And I don't mean that as a criticism. I also think the first one was an exceptional movie.
• 4:21
  Track 2: And I think that people overall, the criticisms against it are unwarranted and
• 4:26
  Track 2: largely come from a place of people don't like change and they don't like growth.
• 4:30
  Track 2: and they go into things like this expecting one thing and when they don't get
• 4:35
  Track 2: it, despite the fact that they were not promised that thing.
• 4:38
  Track 2: No one promised them 28 days later. Danny Boyle's 28 days later. No one promised that.
• 4:45
  Track 2: That's not what they offered. They never promised that. If you went into it
• 4:48
  Track 2: and expected that and they came out of unhappy, that's on you.
• 4:51
  Track 1: Yeah. And the other thing I was looking at, the first film, 28 years later,
• 4:56
  Track 1: not the first in the franchise, 20 years later, made $150 million on a $60 million
• 5:01
  Track 1: budget. So it didn't even do badly.
• 5:05
  Track 1: So that's why I don't buy. The new one has only made $46 million on a $63 million budget.
• 5:10
  Track 1: and this is going to be one of those cases
• 5:13
  Track 1: where i think in 10 years people are going to look back and say like that
• 5:16
  Track 1: movie was actually awesome the people who didn't see it and
• 5:19
  Track 1: the box office and critics or whatever like they're just idiots
• 5:21
  Track 1: you know it's one of those reappraisals and for
• 5:24
  Track 1: people who don't also know the director uh nia da
• 5:27
  Track 1: costa she has had two films released this
• 5:31
  Track 1: well i guess the other one was the end of last year was head
• 5:34
  Track 1: was heda which i have not seen and i need to go
• 5:36
  Track 1: see because i've heard it's really good she also directed the reboot of candy
• 5:41
  Track 1: man which was excellent amazing and the marvels which i think is also maybe
• 5:45
  Track 1: one of the more underappreciated marvel movies and probably suffers less from
• 5:49
  Track 1: her being involved than marvel and disney just being shitty but.
• 5:54
  Track 2: Also because brie larson and women and sexism like let's be honest like i don't
• 6:01
  Track 2: think Like most people, most people, the average viewer,
• 6:04
  Track 2: like, I don't mean to be, because I include myself in this, the average person
• 6:08
  Track 2: that watches movies does not pay attention to the director is.
• 6:11
  Track 2: Like, this is something that people who like movies need to come to terms with.
• 6:16
  Track 2: Like, movie people need to come to terms with the fact that the average person
• 6:20
  Track 2: that watches a movie does not give a shit who the director is.
• 6:22
  Track 2: They don't know and they don't care.
• 6:25
  Track 1: Yeah, you're true. It's true. I sometimes forget that as someone who like carefully
• 6:30
  Track 1: knows these things like knows other movies they've made yes you're you're you're right that.
• 6:35
  Track 2: I personally, like, I know very specific directors, and, like,
• 6:39
  Track 2: there are times when, like, I know directors, but, like, for the most part,
• 6:42
  Track 2: it's not the first thing I look at at all. It's far from the first thing I look at.
• 6:45
  Track 2: I think the Marvels really didn't have any, like, Marvel suffering had nothing
• 6:49
  Track 2: to do with Nia Dikasa, but everything had to do with every other woman involved
• 6:52
  Track 2: in that movie, and the sexism against those women.
• 6:55
  Track 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 6:56
  Track 2: She was spared the sexism because nobody knew that she was the director.
• 7:00
  Track 1: That's true yeah and i think separate from that
• 7:03
  Track 1: like talking about the movie today because we said how 28 years
• 7:06
  Track 1: later bone temple is literally just days or
• 7:11
  Track 1: less later than the first one it's kind of like a spoiler for the first one
• 7:15
  Track 1: like if you haven't seen most likely if you haven't seen if you've seen the
• 7:19
  Track 1: bone temple you saw the first 20 years later because it wouldn't really make
• 7:22
  Track 1: a whole lot of sense so just like as a spoiler of spoiler double spoiler you
• 7:26
  Track 1: know alert but the the The film, like,
• 7:29
  Track 1: leads off with the child who's in it, who's Spike, who, like,
• 7:35
  Track 1: escapes or is sort of had gone to Ralph Fiennes, who was a doctor,
• 7:40
  Track 1: to try and get some help for his mother in the previous film.
• 7:42
  Track 1: And he is now sort of, like, abandoned and comes across this group of the Fingers,
• 7:47
  Track 1: which is led by Sir Lord Jimmy Crystal, played by Jack O'Connell,
• 7:52
  Track 1: who is absolutely incredible in this movie.
• 7:54
  Track 1: I mean, pretty much every movie I see him in, he's incredible.
• 7:57
  Track 1: And this is no exception.
• 7:59
  Track 1: And he has this group of fingers, which is a bunch of other people that wear
• 8:02
  Track 1: blonde wigs and all go by the name Jimmy.
• 8:05
  Track 1: And they have this, he's essentially the child or the son of the Satan.
• 8:10
  Track 1: And they're out to basically...
• 8:14
  Track 1: What would you call it? Get retribution for the, you know, for,
• 8:18
  Track 1: I don't know. What would you call it?
• 8:20
  Track 2: They are serving old Nick's purpose because old Nick, Satan,
• 8:26
  Track 2: has unleashed his demons upon the world, the infected.
• 8:30
  Track 2: And they are fulfilling his purpose of cleansing the world of the people that are left, basically.
• 8:37
  Track 2: They perform what they call acts of charity, which are all just various brutal
• 8:42
  Track 2: methods of murdering people, which is really at the heart of it.
• 8:48
  Track 2: And this is why I think a lot of people that go into this expecting a zombie
• 8:53
  Track 2: movie or a or even a 28 Days Later
• 8:58
  Track 2: like movie are going to be not thrilled because this movie really does.
• 9:06
  Track 2: take the notion of humans are the monsters to a next level and that it does
• 9:15
  Track 2: not require the rage virus for someone to lose their humanity and in fact the
• 9:20
  Track 2: people with the rage virus there is still someone in there yes.
• 9:24
  Track 1: I think i think it's almost goes back to sort of a fundamental misunderstanding
• 9:29
  Track 1: maybe even of just like the franchise as a whole as a viewing as a zombie movie
• 9:35
  Track 1: like there's lots of movies that are, you know,
• 9:37
  Track 1: quote unquote zombie movies or vampire movies where sort of the script is flipped
• 9:41
  Track 1: on sort of the typical way you think of zombies, maybe in like Dawn of the Dead
• 9:46
  Track 1: or things like that, like the George de Romeo films.
• 9:50
  Track 1: This is not like that. This is a virus.
• 9:53
  Track 1: I mean, I guess some of them do use similar things like that.
• 9:55
  Track 2: I do think that overall, just in general,
• 9:59
  Track 2: the way most people, like the way pop culture in general,
• 10:03
  Track 2: the reductive nature of the way zombie movies are treated within pop culture in general,
• 10:09
  Track 2: I think is displays almost universally a fundamental misunderstanding of the
• 10:15
  Track 2: genre because it always is like people focus on the zombies to the detriment
• 10:21
  Track 2: of the material and to their detriment.
• 10:26
  Track 2: And they, they, they miss the point.
• 10:29
  Track 2: This goes back to the conversation we've had before about how people call zombie movies fascist.
• 10:34
  Track 2: And it's like, no, they fundamentally display the need for community.
• 10:40
  Track 2: Like, every time. It's like, there is never a zombie movie where it's like,
• 10:45
  Track 2: oh, yeah, the guy who, the individual that, you know, is like,
• 10:49
  Track 2: you know, the prepper is the one who lives and survives. It's like,
• 10:52
  Track 2: no, that never, ever happens.
• 10:54
  Track 1: No and i i would uh i would encourage anyone
• 10:57
  Track 1: who you know maybe doesn't always go into back
• 11:00
  Track 1: catalogs or podcasts we did like one of the
• 11:02
  Track 1: very early episodes of this show was dawn of the dead the sequel
• 11:05
  Track 1: to night of living dead and i think that one more than any it's it's people
• 11:10
  Track 1: usually say like the original one of that franchise is the best one but sometimes
• 11:14
  Track 1: i think dawn of the dead is more interesting from uh in different ways but it
• 11:19
  Track 1: really dives deep into that community and like what it is to be zombies.
• 11:24
  Track 1: Like the main plot of that is they're at a mall and people are,
• 11:27
  Track 1: zombies are like attracted to the mall. Like what is it they're actually attracted to?
• 11:31
  Track 1: And a lot of it is their loss of like a communal space where they can actually be together.
• 11:35
  Track 1: And this, you see, all of the communities you see that exist in this franchise,
• 11:41
  Track 1: the 28 Days Later franchise, is a community trying to like relive a world that
• 11:46
  Track 1: no longer exists to them.
• 11:47
  Track 1: And generally speaking, they do are welcoming of, people they find,
• 11:53
  Track 1: It's hard because the rage virus is different. It's not like a zombie that slowly
• 11:57
  Track 1: walks around with his hands up and says, like, I want to eat brains.
• 12:00
  Track 1: They actually are just chasing after you and are led by these alpha male jacked
• 12:07
  Track 1: dudes who we have in this as well. Yeah.
• 12:10
  Track 2: So how spoilery do we want to get here?
• 12:13
  Track 1: I mean, I think we can. I think we. Well, usually, I mean, pretty much every
• 12:18
  Track 1: episode is a spoiler. But we could.
• 12:21
  Track 2: How spoilery did we get? Yeah. on um Predator Badlands.
• 12:26
  Track 1: We I feel like we didn't hit the end of it I mean I just did we just did the
• 12:30
  Track 1: one or you weren't on it but I did the one on Marty Supreme.
• 12:32
  Track 2: Yeah and.
• 12:33
  Track 1: We basically went to the like the end I mean granted maybe it's a different kind.
• 12:36
  Track 2: Of film because I want to you know a lot of people like you know they complain
• 12:40
  Track 2: about these movies and they talk about George Romero and it's like oh they compare
• 12:43
  Track 2: it to those but this movie,
• 12:46
  Track 2: has one of the most fundamental aspects of like George Romero and like because
• 12:50
  Track 2: people hold George Romero up as like the like.
• 12:53
  Track 2: The creator of the zombie genre. And then they forget all the things he did,
• 13:00
  Track 2: such as implement the idea of the zombies evolving,
• 13:04
  Track 2: the zombies having personality, the zombies being individuals.
• 13:09
  Track 2: And this movie really with Kelsen.
• 13:12
  Track 2: So in this movie, to go back to the first one, Dr.
• 13:17
  Track 2: Ian Kelsen, they show him in the first one. He has this blowgun with the morphine
• 13:21
  Track 2: darts, and that's how he subdues the infected so that he can basically peaceably
• 13:28
  Track 2: coexist with them to a degree.
• 13:30
  Track 2: He lives outside of their general hunting grounds, doesn't go in there,
• 13:35
  Track 2: and if they come out, he darts them and then kind of just leaves them and they go back on their own.
• 13:40
  Track 2: and then in this you see he darts
• 13:44
  Track 2: an alpha and then heals the alpha i
• 13:47
  Track 2: really loved the nhs joke i thought that was really hilarious i thought
• 13:49
  Track 2: that was really funny uh um and
• 13:53
  Track 2: over time he develops a relationship with this alpha and it's again it goes
• 13:58
  Track 2: back to like the need for community because kelson is alone and you see this
• 14:03
  Track 2: like sadness he's like remembering everything and he's kind of reliving everything
• 14:08
  Track 2: he lost, but with this infected.
• 14:10
  Track 2: And then in the end he actually heals him or at least he makes,
• 14:17
  Track 2: he, he makes it, he makes, he makes it so that he,
• 14:23
  Track 2: think it's almost like he can control the virus or the rage because i don't
• 14:28
  Track 2: think he's totally cured i don't think he lived through all of that those attacks
• 14:32
  Track 2: without with i don't think that was uh.
• 14:35
  Track 1: Yeah i.
• 14:36
  Track 2: Don't think that was totally cured i think he basically he's reached equilibrium
• 14:40
  Track 2: with it which isn't in itself its own lesson.
• 14:43
  Track 1: And i think it's like a good juxtaposition so as you went through sort of like
• 14:47
  Track 1: the ray fines character he's living you know in the in that we we are introduced
• 14:52
  Track 1: to this bone temple which is really just kind of a.
• 14:56
  Track 1: Memoriam to the dead from this rage
• 14:59
  Track 1: virus and on the other side you have Jack O'Connell as
• 15:01
  Track 1: you know Jimmy Sir Lord
• 15:04
  Track 1: Jimmy Crystal and he is sort of the opposite of
• 15:07
  Track 1: this as he's going around there terrorizing people
• 15:10
  Track 1: skinning people alive he's forcing Spike
• 15:13
  Track 1: who's this little you know how maybe it's like 10-12 years old
• 15:17
  Track 1: as part of the gang because he was able to kill someone else
• 15:20
  Track 1: in there so he becomes a Jimmy and in the
• 15:23
  Track 1: same way like you eventually learn
• 15:26
  Track 1: that he is actually just a sad depressed
• 15:30
  Track 1: person who probably doesn't believe in any of these things and he's like coming
• 15:36
  Track 1: to terms with like do you think that do you think that uh that jack o'connell
• 15:40
  Track 1: actually by meeting ray fines and seeing that like you know he's not actually dr nick and he does he
• 15:47
  Track 1: Let me see if I can ask her, wait. Is he admitting to him that I'm just making
• 15:51
  Track 1: this all up this whole time, which he obviously was, and he was just doing it for control?
• 15:57
  Track 1: Like, what do you make of sort of his—the way that the two stories come together
• 16:02
  Track 1: is that one of the Jimmys sees Ralph Fiennes and thinks that he is the devil. And so they go to see him.
• 16:09
  Track 1: And he, you know, goes ahead of him to meet him first. And obviously he learns
• 16:13
  Track 1: that he's not the devil and that he's just this doctor. and they become sort
• 16:17
  Track 1: of friendly. He's good to talk to.
• 16:19
  Track 1: I don't know. Like sort of coming back and forth on.
• 16:22
  Track 2: I think, I think that, well, first of all, we need to talk about like where Jimmy came from.
• 16:27
  Track 1: Yes.
• 16:28
  Track 2: Jimmy is the child from the first, from the first 20 years later,
• 16:32
  Track 2: who watches everybody he knows die to the infected.
• 16:38
  Track 2: Yeah. After watching Teletubbies.
• 16:42
  Track 2: And then as his father welcomes the infected into the church,
• 16:47
  Track 2: raving, and then he watches his father die.
• 16:50
  Track 2: Like, I think that all, like all of this is like a, it's, it's a story about
• 16:56
  Track 2: deep, deep, deep trauma.
• 16:59
  Track 2: And the, the fact that if you don't address trauma and you don't learn from
• 17:06
  Track 2: things and you don't have anybody to lean on and you don't have anybody to listen to.
• 17:13
  Track 2: And the first person that he was forced really because of the circumstances
• 17:19
  Track 2: to sit down and converse with was Dr.
• 17:23
  Track 2: Kelson because everybody else he had to put on that show right to maintain his
• 17:29
  Track 2: own power for his own purposes in response to his trauma.
• 17:34
  Track 2: He had to put on a show all the time. He could never like sit down with like
• 17:37
  Track 2: a random person like, hey, so, you know, I'm having a rough time.
• 17:41
  Track 1: No, he's acting. Everything he's doing is an act the whole time.
• 17:46
  Track 2: Right. And then he basically, through chance,
• 17:51
  Track 2: he encounters someone that, due to the circumstances,
• 17:55
  Track 2: he is granted the ability to basically sit down and talk to a human being,
• 18:01
  Track 2: an adult human being, one-on-one, and really divulge some things.
• 18:07
  Track 2: And that is not to say that he is like,
• 18:10
  Track 2: you know, he doesn't, he's still
• 18:13
  Track 2: guilty of terrible things and deserves punishment, which he receives.
• 18:19
  Track 2: But like, I really, you know, this is deep seated, deep seated trauma.
• 18:23
  Track 2: And he basically sits down with a doctor and kind of like unpack some of it.
• 18:29
  Track 1: And it's, it was like almost sitting down to therapy.
• 18:31
  Track 2: Yeah. A hundred percent. Like, I don't think it's, it's not,
• 18:35
  Track 2: I don't think it's, you know, it's not a coincidence that this is a doctor.
• 18:41
  Track 1: Yeah, I mean, he even says to him, like, you know, you're easy to talk to.
• 18:44
  Track 1: And, like, he just stays there. And, I mean, in, like, a real world,
• 18:47
  Track 1: he probably wishes he could just, like, live with this guy.
• 18:50
  Track 1: Yeah. And have, like, a normal life. Because he's probably the age of his father, too.
• 18:54
  Track 1: Like, be a father figure to him. And not have to lead these fingers around just
• 18:59
  Track 1: committing horrific crimes.
• 19:01
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Track 1: And just skinning people alive. And, like, it's also clear that I don't think
• 19:04
  Track 1: he actually does any of the crimes himself. He's really just the one who.
• 19:08
  Track 2: I don't know. I mean, like.
• 19:09
  Track 1: I guess it's hard to say. You don't see him.
• 19:11
  Track 2: It's hard to say, yeah. I mean, you know, they also say Manson didn't do all the crimes.
• 19:17
  Track 1: That's funny. I was about to just compare him to Manson, too.
• 19:22
  Track 2: But he was still a fucking serial killer. I mean, and it's clear that,
• 19:26
  Track 2: like, you know, the fingers, not all the fingers, it's like they live in a world
• 19:31
  Track 2: in which there is no stability, no security, no anything for them.
• 19:36
  Track 2: It's like, because it's also clear, like, they don't.
• 19:38
  Track 2: don't all buy into it, you know, when the one is like walking away and she's
• 19:44
  Track 2: just basically like talking shit about like the whole, like the dipsy dude dance
• 19:48
  Track 2: or whatever from the teletopies. And she's like, yeah, I said, what the fuck?
• 19:51
  Track 2: You know, it's like, they don't take that seriously.
• 19:54
  Track 1: They don't. It's kind of, it's hearing all that.
• 19:57
  Track 1: And this is another thing that I wonder, and maybe this movie suffers from that.
• 20:02
  Track 1: Maybe even the previous 28 years later suffers from that is,
• 20:04
  Track 1: do you think that people maybe who hadn't either hadn't seen the original or
• 20:09
  Track 1: hadn't seen it in a long time were sort of just confused as to who and what these things,
• 20:15
  Track 1: you know, they didn't maybe understand what was going on.
• 20:18
  Track 2: What, The Infected?
• 20:18
  Track 1: Do you think that matters?
• 20:20
  Track 2: Well, I mean, 28 Years Later opens up with a screen crawl that explains The Infected.
• 20:25
  Track 1: Oh, you're right, it does. I hadn't seen it since then.
• 20:27
  Track 2: No, I don't.
• 20:28
  Track 1: Okay, okay, so sorry. But this one, they didn't do that because they're like,
• 20:32
  Track 1: you just saw that one like months ago.
• 20:34
  Track 2: These movies, they were filmed back to back.
• 20:36
  Track 1: Which is so interesting to me in the sense that they did that where Danny Boyle
• 20:41
  Track 1: only was involved directing lies from the first one.
• 20:45
  Track 2: It's an attraic, considering...
• 20:47
  Track 2: he didn't direct both of them and they filmed it back to me.
• 20:50
  Track 1: I know that's it well i mean i mean they feel like they almost had to in the
• 20:53
  Track 1: sense that like they have all these sets for the bone what are they going to
• 20:55
  Track 1: do like tear down this big money that's true and also spike would.
• 20:59
  Track 2: Grow up and it would be yeah.
• 21:01
  Track 1: That's yeah but i think that generally though
• 21:04
  Track 1: that like the the the i think the cinematography for
• 21:07
  Track 1: this one the bone temple i thought was better than
• 21:10
  Track 1: danny boils i thought that the just the the shots
• 21:14
  Track 1: and all of the sort of feeling you got
• 21:16
  Track 1: from all of the different moments where they there's like lots of it's in
• 21:19
  Track 1: both movies too they show lots of shots of just empty fields and mountains and
• 21:24
  Track 1: and you know meadows and these things and it's sort of like this is what life
• 21:28
  Track 1: is like and it could be this peaceful existence but then you have people like
• 21:32
  Track 1: out there like jimmy in the same way like the at the cross of this in my review
• 21:36
  Track 1: for this movie on Glitterbox,
• 21:38
  Track 1: I said, it's basically sort of the long-standing sort of battle between science and religion.
• 21:45
  Track 1: And kind of like at the crux of it, it is because you have this doctor who presumably
• 21:50
  Track 1: has found a potential cure or at least somewhat of a cure to this devastating virus.
• 21:56
  Track 1: And then you have someone who doesn't care about that and maybe doesn't even
• 22:01
  Track 1: really know that actually.
• 22:02
  Track 1: I guess he doesn't really tell him he had a cure and destroys everything because
• 22:06
  Track 1: of his own ego of having to still prove to everyone that he's the son of, of St. Nick.
• 22:13
  Track 2: Yeah. I, I really feel like these movies very much feel like these past two
• 22:19
  Track 2: movies very much feel like an evolution of the zombie film,
• 22:24
  Track 2: the zombie genre in response to what we are seeing in the real world. Because I.
• 22:32
  Track 2: Historically we have mostly focused on
• 22:35
  Track 2: throughout history of the genre what we've
• 22:38
  Track 2: mostly focused on is survival and you
• 22:42
  Track 2: know dealing with this and like coming to terms with it and like survival and
• 22:46
  Track 2: this both of these movies very much feel more like it's the reconciliation with
• 22:52
  Track 2: what comes after and kind of like confronting the viewer with what comes after large scale,
• 23:01
  Track 2: like social devastation.
• 23:05
  Track 2: It's almost like a lesson being, it's like, listen, you feel like we are facing
• 23:09
  Track 2: right now, existentially as
• 23:12
  Track 2: a species on this planet, we are facing wide scale, like climate collapse.
• 23:17
  Track 2: We are looking at major fucking problems.
• 23:22
  Track 2: we are staring down the barrel at like
• 23:25
  Track 2: major social collapse in a lot of ways and what
• 23:29
  Track 2: these movies are it's like to me
• 23:33
  Track 2: it's like two things it's like first of all the
• 23:37
  Track 2: sorry the world will go on the world will go on without you like you as a speak
• 23:43
  Track 2: like you are not fucking important the world will go on so you need to make
• 23:48
  Track 2: the choice are you going to change what needs to change so that humanity can move forward?
• 23:55
  Track 2: Or are you going to hold on and then watch as humanity dies and what's left
• 24:00
  Track 2: is open fields for the next thing?
• 24:03
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Track 2: Or, you know.
• 24:05
  Track 1: Yeah, I like that. I mean.
• 24:07
  Track 2: What are you going to do? Are you, and are you going to do what Kelson does,
• 24:12
  Track 2: which is understand that you need as everybody, as a system,
• 24:17
  Track 2: you need to reach equilibrium with the material reality you exist in,
• 24:22
  Track 2: what the world has given you. You need to come to terms with that.
• 24:26
  Track 2: You need to accept it for what it is and live in harmony with it,
• 24:29
  Track 2: or you're going to fucking die.
• 24:31
  Track 2: What can you do? You can either be Jimmy and prey on people and destroy what
• 24:38
  Track 2: they have built, or you can be Dr.
• 24:40
  Track 2: Kelson and you can live in harmony with the fucking world and understand what
• 24:45
  Track 2: the material conditions have given you.
• 24:47
  Track 1: I mean, basically in that description is Jimmy is the exploitation of capitalism.
• 24:55
  Track 2: 100%.
• 24:55
  Track 1: And Dr. Kelson is the living in harmony with your neighbors under socialism.
• 25:00
  Track 1: I mean, it couldn't be any more blatant.
• 25:03
  Track 1: And knowing what I know about sort of Alex Garland and some of his other films,
• 25:07
  Track 1: I'll say I feel like his politics can be a little bit—we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.
• 25:12
  Track 1: But I think in this case, I think it's very clear what he was trying to show.
• 25:17
  Track 1: Maybe he wasn't thinking capitalism versus socialism.
• 25:20
  Track 1: Maybe he's thinking, you know, barbarism or, you know, whatever term he wants
• 25:24
  Track 1: to have in his head. Yeah.
• 25:26
  Track 2: But it still comes down to the same thing. It's like that it just,
• 25:30
  Track 2: it always comes back in comparison to most other movies in this genre.
• 25:35
  Track 2: You very, so rarely have that kind of like bittersweet coverage of like sweeping,
• 25:42
  Track 2: but acknowledgement of what, what was lost, but also like look at the way the world continues.
• 25:50
  Track 2: That's not a thing you really say.
• 25:52
  Track 1: Usually when I think of a lot of zombie movies that have now,
• 25:56
  Track 1: how it's in the future, things are degraded.
• 25:59
  Track 1: It's usually cruel and just people are monstrous and they have no willingness to change.
• 26:07
  Track 1: They've just accepted the barbarism as that that's the only possible way to live forward.
• 26:11
  Track 1: I just think of the movie or the show, what's that show, Walking Dead.
• 26:16
  Track 1: I mean, I gave up on that show half a decade ago, but that show is cruel.
• 26:22
  Track 2: I've seen it all.
• 26:23
  Track 1: Oh, you've seen it all?
• 26:24
  Track 2: Oh my God. I've seen it all. much to my dismiss, you know, like much to my own personal victimhood.
• 26:33
  Track 1: Yeah, I got to where Negan was like, well, spoiler, I got to where Negan was captured.
• 26:38
  Track 2: I do think that part of this has to do with peeing English,
• 26:42
  Track 2: honestly, because it does harken back to those like old English ideals,
• 26:47
  Track 2: like the romanticism of the pastoral nature of like English history.
• 26:52
  Track 2: I do think that's part of it.
• 26:54
  Track 1: I mean, that brings me to the very end, the final scene of the film,
• 26:58
  Track 1: when they're literally talking about the history of, I mean,
• 27:01
  Track 1: granted, not in the same way you're describing, but you still have to understand what came before you.
• 27:06
  Track 1: And I think most people are unwilling to even do that in today's society.
• 27:09
  Track 2: Yes which no one will learn from the past big spoiler okay so if you don't want
• 27:14
  Track 2: to hear the ending of a big spoiler cut now and by cut i mean stop listening,
• 27:22
  Track 2: the ending of the movie we cut to uh
• 27:25
  Track 2: killian murphy and his daughter um
• 27:29
  Track 2: only we only said and she is studying for upcoming quit or test which he is
• 27:36
  Track 2: clearly like administering he's the And they're talking about post-World War
• 27:42
  Track 2: I behavior of European countries and how it led to World War II.
• 27:46
  Track 2: And the classic, like, when you destroy your enemy and then leave them with
• 27:52
  Track 2: nothing, what do they do?
• 27:54
  Track 2: they come back and try to eat you it's.
• 27:59
  Track 1: Like the most such a like heavy fisted metaphor that i the but that's because
• 28:07
  Track 1: the movie's woke bill that's why that's.
• 28:09
  Track 2: Why they did that but i mean like it's such
• 28:11
  Track 2: like but at the same time it is i feel
• 28:15
  Track 2: like it makes the point that if you
• 28:18
  Track 2: know actual history um because he's
• 28:21
  Track 2: teaching it from a very it's presented as from
• 28:24
  Track 2: a very like you know western bourgeois liberal
• 28:27
  Track 2: kind of perspective but if you know actual history you're like well in reality
• 28:32
  Track 2: like they still exploited those people still punished them even after world
• 28:38
  Track 2: war ii and really all we did was just fold all that in like you know and the
• 28:43
  Track 2: allied powers just attacked Soviet Union.
• 28:47
  Track 2: When you really, it's like, they didn't keep that problem. He's like,
• 28:51
  Track 2: what is it? I forget what he says.
• 28:53
  Track 2: Basically, you have to learn the lessons. They didn't fucking learn those lessons either.
• 28:58
  Track 2: He makes it be like, they didn't fucking learn those lessons either.
• 29:00
  Track 1: You know what's weird is that technically Cillian Murphy's character is uncredited in this?
• 29:05
  Track 2: I think it's probably because I wanted to keep him secret.
• 29:08
  Track 1: Oh, okay. There you go. I mean, there was a lot of pretty heavy rumors that he was going to be in it.
• 29:13
  Track 1: People thought he was going to be in the previous one as like a zombie.
• 29:16
  Track 2: Well, they showed that zombie that looked like him.
• 29:19
  Track 1: That was very intentional to like people, right?
• 29:22
  Track 2: I think they wanted to keep it secret, even though like, yes,
• 29:27
  Track 2: there was a lot of rumors, you know, but I think they wanted to keep it secret. I think that's why.
• 29:31
  Track 1: Yeah, and apparently he's in talks to be in the third of the trilogy.
• 29:36
  Track 1: It hasn't been announced yet.
• 29:38
  Track 2: But I mean, I can't imagine. Yeah, I can't imagine I'm not.
• 29:44
  Track 1: Yeah. And I think, and you see like the kindness that he shows to save this person.
• 29:49
  Track 1: His daughter's like, you know, are we going to, are we going to help them?
• 29:52
  Track 1: And he's like, of course we are.
• 29:53
  Track 2: Of course we are.
• 29:54
  Track 1: And he didn't, he wouldn't have survived the initial 28 days later,
• 29:58
  Track 1: if not for other people helping him. So, I mean.
• 30:00
  Track 2: Exactly.
• 30:01
  Track 1: You see, you see again, like the Ralph Fiennes version of the world actually
• 30:06
  Track 1: being necessary. Otherwise you're just going to end up with just, you know, barbarism.
• 30:11
  Track 2: Barbarism. Yeah.
• 30:12
  Track 1: Death. Killing. I thought that the actress, Erin Kellyman,
• 30:18
  Track 1: who played the version of Jimmy that was basically the strongest one of all
• 30:24
  Track 1: of them, for the most part. Kind of like the leader of the fingers.
• 30:27
  Track 1: She was really good in it, I thought, her character.
• 30:30
  Track 2: You mean the one that kind of protects Spike?
• 30:35
  Track 1: Yes. I think that she eventually reveals her name is Kelly at the end.
• 30:38
  Track 2: Yes, which they also foreshadow if you see when they're hanging out. That's Jimmy Inc.
• 30:47
  Track 1: Yes.
• 30:48
  Track 2: When they're hanging out by the trees, when they're all watching Dr.
• 30:54
  Track 2: Kelsen, she's carving a K into the tree.
• 30:58
  Track 1: You're right. You're right. I was thinking about that. I'm like,
• 31:02
  Track 1: what is she putting into it?
• 31:04
  Track 2: Because she did not.
• 31:06
  Track 2: abandoned her identity the others you could tell like they really had abandoned
• 31:10
  Track 2: their identity they fully bought into it she had not abandoned who she was she
• 31:16
  Track 2: was still holding on to that part of her her humanity yeah.
• 31:20
  Track 1: I mean it's interesting like you we didn't really talk as much about the fingers
• 31:24
  Track 1: but very clearly these are people who are in a way i almost think of thought
• 31:30
  Track 1: of that as kind of like the lost boys in.
• 31:32
  Track 2: Like peter pan.
• 31:33
  Track 1: But like the version in like the movie the lost boys where they're like not
• 31:37
  Track 1: good people they're vampires.
• 31:38
  Track 2: And they're just they're.
• 31:40
  Track 1: Willing they don't they don't have these are people also that i mean they were
• 31:45
  Track 1: born presumably after the beginning of the plague right they're all under 28 years old.
• 31:51
  Track 2: Yeah they're all on the 28 yeah but i do think that you
• 31:53
  Track 2: know to go back to like you know holding on to humanity we also
• 31:57
  Track 2: see that like samson the alpha that kelson
• 32:00
  Track 2: um is you know like befriends and forms a bond with the fact that he keeps going
• 32:07
  Track 2: back to that train is also again part of that like holding on to this humanity
• 32:12
  Track 2: because that's where that's the last time he was a uninfected human as a child yeah.
• 32:20
  Track 1: And that's the only is that the only flashback to the real time in any of the movies in the franchise.
• 32:27
  Track 2: I believe so and.
• 32:28
  Track 1: It's And it's really depressing.
• 32:31
  Track 2: Yes, it is.
• 32:32
  Track 1: And especially, too, when the person is asking for his ticket,
• 32:36
  Track 1: and then it's actually one of the infected that's standing above him,
• 32:39
  Track 1: and he just absolutely, colossally, just destroys in that scene.
• 32:43
  Track 1: I don't have a ticket. Talk about brutality.
• 32:46
  Track 2: I don't have a ticket. And we finally see why the infected behave the way they do.
• 32:52
  Track 2: This is not simply a physiological. It is also a psychological.
• 32:58
  Track 2: It is a mental illness that is...
• 33:01
  Track 2: inflicted upon them similar to where it's like you know it creates a terror
• 33:05
  Track 2: of a thing it makes people terrified of other people without the virus i.
• 33:10
  Track 1: Mean isn't that what capitalism does though like.
• 33:12
  Track 2: We're meant.
• 33:13
  Track 1: To hate the people.
• 33:14
  Track 2: Around us we're.
• 33:15
  Track 1: In alienation have to be in it for ourselves who cares who you step on as long
• 33:20
  Track 1: as you survive i mean yeah.
• 33:22
  Track 2: It is a virus that creates is schisming and alienation and separates you from other people.
• 33:30
  Track 2: It makes other people look like a monster that you have to kill to survive.
• 33:35
  Track 1: Yeah, I think that's why you're saying is that you said he doesn't,
• 33:38
  Track 1: Ralph Fiennes doesn't fully cure him, but he's able to lift that fog.
• 33:42
  Track 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:44
  Track 1: Because he's still clearly, you
• 33:46
  Track 1: know, I don't want to say like nearly invincible, right? Like he can't.
• 33:50
  Track 2: Yeah, he's still he's still fought like fucking like, I don't know,
• 33:54
  Track 2: like a dozen of them? came out like okay.
• 33:57
  Track 1: And you briefly I feel like briefly you're like I think he's like he might.
• 34:00
  Track 2: Die yeah I thought he was gonna die no and then he walks out just covered in
• 34:04
  Track 2: gore it's like god damn he also ripped that once arm off you know.
• 34:10
  Track 1: We haven't really talked. I mean, we did talk about Ralph Fiennes,
• 34:12
  Track 1: but his performance, especially like the big reveal scene with.
• 34:17
  Track 2: That's incredible. Just Iron Maiden.
• 34:21
  Track 1: One of the best, like Ralph Fiennes. I hate saying this. I hate being like,
• 34:26
  Track 1: oh, he's like an underappreciated actor.
• 34:28
  Track 1: But in some ways he is like he's in so many. He's been a lot of horror movies
• 34:32
  Track 1: recently, which is, I think, is an interesting career choice.
• 34:36
  Track 1: Not in a bad way, but like he was in the menu and then he was in both of these.
• 34:40
  Track 1: Um, I guess he wasn't in that many horror movies, maybe just those, but such a good actor.
• 34:46
  Track 2: So incredible actor.
• 34:48
  Track 1: I mean, maybe he's not underappreciated. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm like.
• 34:51
  Track 2: Yeah, I don't think he's underappreciated, man. I mean, no, no.
• 34:54
  Track 1: No, no.
• 34:55
  Track 2: Let's see. Wasn't he full list of awards? Yeah.
• 35:02
  Track 2: He has, uh, two Oscars.
• 35:06
  Track 1: Wait, no, he doesn't. Does he?
• 35:08
  Track 2: Yes.
• 35:09
  Track 1: No, I don't think he's won.
• 35:10
  Track 2: Oh, no, I'm sorry. He was nominated for two Oscars. He has won a BAFTA.
• 35:13
  Track 2: He has won a Critics' Choice Award.
• 35:16
  Track 2: He has won a Screen Guild's.
• 35:19
  Track 1: Has he been knighted by the Queen yet or the King? I believe so.
• 35:23
  Track 1: I just made that up, but maybe he was. Maybe he was. Who knows?
• 35:26
  Track 1: He's also going to be in the new Hunger Games film.
• 35:29
  Track 2: Yes. He has won 13 awards and been nominated for 57.
• 35:34
  Track 1: He's not underappreciated. Sorry, he's not underappreciated.
• 35:36
  Track 1: He's just a really good actor, and I like him.
• 35:40
  Track 1: I also love him in, I mean, this is going back a long time,
• 35:44
  Track 1: but he was really good in the movie Quiz Show, also really good in the movie
• 35:49
  Track 1: In Bruges, even though he's not the main character, he's really good in that
• 35:53
  Track 1: film. So, I love Ralph Fiennes.
• 35:56
  Track 2: No, he has not been knighted. Okay.
• 35:58
  Track 1: He was Lord Voldemort also in the Harry Potter.
• 36:02
  Track 2: Unfortunately. Yes, he was.
• 36:03
  Track 1: He was in Skyfall. I'm trying to think what else he was in.
• 36:07
  Track 1: I guess he was in several of the new Bond.
• 36:10
  Track 2: He's in a lot of movies.
• 36:13
  Track 1: Yeah, I just look, in 2003, he was in six films.
• 36:16
  Track 1: 2004, he was in three. In Conclave from last year, two years ago,
• 36:20
  Track 1: he was nominated for this.
• 36:21
  Track 1: Anyway, not underappreciated. He is appreciated.
• 36:25
  Track 2: He's in Made in Manhattan, which is, you know, that was, I believe,
• 36:29
  Track 2: actually a seminal work of his.
• 36:33
  Track 1: Oh, man. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's anything else about
• 36:36
  Track 1: this that, I mean, certainly this is more of, I wouldn't say it's like a short
• 36:40
  Track 1: episode, but it's maybe not as in depth as some of the normal episodes.
• 36:44
  Track 1: But is there anything we didn't mention or include here that we should have?
• 36:49
  Track 2: No, I don't think so. I mean, I do think, you know, if you were going into this,
• 36:53
  Track 2: if you're going into this expecting a standard zombie movie,
• 36:56
  Track 2: you are going to be disappointed.
• 36:58
  Track 2: This is a, this is...
• 37:01
  Track 1: And also, it's a sad movie, but also not.
• 37:06
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Track 1: Like, at the same time. Like, it's sad, but then it also kind of has this ray of hope in it.
• 37:11
  Track 2: Yeah, this movie is definitely one of those movies where it's like,
• 37:13
  Track 2: it is a constant, it is a dichotomy in and of itself.
• 37:17
  Track 2: It is constant, like, juxtaposition between the feelings and the presentation
• 37:24
  Track 2: within it and, like, how you feel.
• 37:25
  Track 2: you know it's like it's heartbreaking but also very hopeful and you know just
• 37:35
  Track 2: idealistic or idealist in a way that is fulfilling um and also just like super just like,
• 37:46
  Track 2: rough like the jimmy and the fingers like they're brutal people you know but
• 37:51
  Track 2: then you switch to ray fines and it's like oh he's,
• 37:55
  Track 2: such a caring and loving man and and.
• 37:58
  Track 1: You see how spike has.
• 37:59
  Track 2: Been influenced by all those things.
• 38:01
  Track 1: Yeah i'm really curious if in
• 38:04
  Track 1: because presumably like when you see him making sort of like the pills he gives
• 38:08
  Track 1: to samson that kind of temporarily kind of cure him he's like writing in notebooks
• 38:13
  Track 1: from like you know uh medical journals and books you do wonder in the third
• 38:18
  Track 1: film if these are uncovered by...
• 38:22
  Track 2: I guess we'll see.
• 38:24
  Track 1: I hope if they didn't make the third one of this little trilogy or whatever
• 38:28
  Track 1: you want to call it, I'd be disappointed.
• 38:31
  Track 1: But this is well worth it. I think we both gave this four and a half stars in
• 38:35
  Track 1: Letterboxd. I didn't give it a perfect five stars.
• 38:38
  Track 1: And I don't know, maybe it's worthy of five stars. I don't know.
• 38:41
  Track 1: I'm usually an over rater with things.
• 38:43
  Track 1: I'm like, if I love this movie and I'd watch it again, for me,
• 38:45
  Track 1: that's almost a five star.
• 38:47
  Track 1: Close to a five. Very close.
• 38:50
  Track 2: Yes, I also gave it four and a half stars, yes.
• 38:53
  Track 1: Yeah, and I'm not a squeamish person when it comes to, you know-
• 38:58
  Track 1: There is a couple of scenes in this that are tough to watch.
• 39:01
  Track 2: Yeah. Yeah. I am far from squeamish. And there was, there was some scenes I was like, cool. Okay.
• 39:07
  Track 1: Well, if you're listening to this episode, you can of course,
• 39:11
  Track 1: subscribe at left of the projector.com or patrion.com slash left of the projector.
• 39:15
  Track 1: And, uh, you can go to Instagram and see what movies we have coming up soon.
• 39:20
  Track 1: If you're listening to this one and wondering what's going to be on tap,
• 39:23
  Track 1: it's going to be THX 1138, which is a early George Lucas film.
• 39:28
  Track 2: And if you go to our show notes, we have all of the links for both the show,
• 39:34
  Track 2: but also all the individual hosts, all the,
• 39:37
  Track 2: our various socials, including Letterboxd and Instagram and all the other places
• 39:41
  Track 2: where you can, I don't know, tell us movies you want us to watch and talk about
• 39:45
  Track 2: or yell at us, you know, whatever you, whatever you people do on the internets.
• 39:49
  Track 1: We have gotten some, we have gotten some recommendations recently on Instagram.
• 39:52
  Track 1: And so those do enter the queue for those out there listening,
• 39:55
  Track 1: you know, Unless you pick something insanely crazy, like if you ask us to watch
• 39:59
  Track 1: Red Dawn again, we're not going to do that.
• 40:01
  Track 2: I've already committed to watching Black Panther 2 again, which I already feel
• 40:06
  Track 2: not great about, so, you know.
• 40:09
  Track 1: I haven't seen it since the theater, and I have this weird lack of memory of the movie at all.
• 40:16
  Track 1: And so, maybe that's just because I sort of decided I'm going to just black it out in my mind.
• 40:20
  Track 2: You memory hold that, baby.
• 40:21
  Track 1: I think I just, yeah. But we have that coming up. We've got lots of good stuff.
• 40:27
  Track 1: And Ward will be back soon from his quest to find... Gareth Edwards. Gareth Edwards.
• 40:32
  Track 1: Ward, hope you find him. We need to chat with Gareth.
• 40:36
  Track 2: Yeah, we need to get that chat.
• 40:37
  Track 1: All right, everyone. We'll catch you next time.