Latest / Putting Is Fun / A $750 Putter Shot 125. Hubert Green's Cost $5 (with Kieran Harris) | Ep. 12
Transcript
- speaker-0: Classic John Rooter, you can find your center, be a straight shooter, train yourself to respect the three-footer. Bring out your Scotty or that new fango lab. Your time rollin' putts will surely be fair. Putt, putt, putt, it's just like it seems. You can drift away and chill in a dream. But with your rose, go soak up the sun-free vitamin D is good for everyone. I'm just spitting facts. Putting is fun. Yes, it is, folks. And you're gonna say, Man, what happened to Ortega? He grew a beard. No, that's our dear friend and fellow funnel. Golfer, Kieran Harris, and tell them where you're from and what you've been doing for a living for the last bunch of years. speaker-1: Thanks, Brian Manzella. Thanks for having me. Thanks for making me part of Funnel Golf from the beginning. Give me this opportunity. And what a what an honor. I feel I'm definitely feeling some imposter syndrome today sitting here with you. speaker-0: Hell no, speaker-1: But yeah, this will be fun, right? Yes. you know, I don't know when we're we're releasing it pretty soon. I don't know when this is we're filming this today. I don't know when it'll be released, but soon we're gonna see the show that I've been doing with JT Perine. good misses as part of the final brand, so speaker-0: Good missus. Good missus. speaker-1: Goodness is another YouTube show and podcast under the funnel golf umbrella and another show that hey, we're just helping golfers on the journey and we're trying to have a low ego about it and declutter all the info out there that I'll everybody's trying to sort through just to try to streamline it and make it a little little more fun and a little easier, just like you're doing and what we're trying to do on this show. So but I'm I'm yeah, I'm up here in my I call it the studio, but this is my mother in law's basement in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And yeah, so speaker-0: It's got a world map behind you. Dig the map. Yeah, speaker-1: Yeah yeah. speaker-0: yeah, exactly. Yeah, because you're from, you know, because you're from you know, a a different country. You're the you're the funnel you're the funnel light from a different country. Funnelite. Yeah. speaker-1: And you're of course coming to us from New Orleans today? speaker-0: I'm coming to you from Lakeview in the studio in the sky. So putting is fun, right? So, you know, I was I was I I had wrote something on Golf Brx kind of explaining the somebody said something about the Banzala show being a show that I'm I'm using to to try to get votes for the lists. Like, no, we're not worried about the list, did funnel go. But It it's interesting that anybody would think that. And I tried to explain. Look at we got these franchises, we got this, we got this, and we got and then when I got to putting is fun, it's a little harder to explain than the other shows. Even you guys show, right? It it good missus. It it's putting is fun is a is an attitude, right? So I when I was thinking of the show, I was gonna do the show with John. I was probably gonna do it about putting. And and we knew it was gonna be the sort of Editorially opposite of No More Lies, sure. speaker-1: And it is. It's a much different vibe. speaker-0: a different vibe right and then then then john's got the the the southern cow vibe because he's in southern cow he's a southern cow boy we talk about things in putting that are interesting and light but not not at a level the golf business to me is pretty much full of things that are at the at the level for this fictitious person that's almost put a couple of magazines out of business, right? It's a it's this 15 handicapper who plays 1.5 times a week during the season. There's the w this is an enthusiast show. If if if you like putting as fun, you you probably the kind of person that when you go to a golf store, right, you always look at the putters. I know I always do, even when I'm putting good and me and my paretti are talking and we're we're having a nice little time together. So what's the big golf store up there, Karen? speaker-1: We we have golf town. I know that every town down there was was you know, you've got Dick's and I don't know if Nevada Bobs was ever around anymore. That was in Canada's speaker-0: Worldwide Worldwide Golf has a bunch of brands. including Roger Dunn, which is where John used to work back in the day when he he told the Tiger Woods story. Tiger came in there looking for a eighty eight two or something like that. I'm Tiger Woods, everybody knows who I am. And and and they they also earn own Edwin Watts, which was a chain down here in the south started by Edwin and Ronnie Watts at the Fort Walton Beach. public course where they used to have a really good mini tour tournament that I played in a couple of times and played halfway decently once. Almost made an ace on a hole with a car. Three wood. Bin to the wind. Three wood. 230. Well they, you know, you can get a better policy on a 230 yard hole, right? I ended up there like this. Yeah. Yeah. And you know the funny thing is, you know how like a lot of times when you're especially if you're playing for a hole in one and I wasn't like up by the lead, even though I played pretty good. You hit the shot And you kind of go, hey, hey, okay. Now, you know, like this was never close, like, except the fact that it finished close. It was, it was a good shot up the left. The pin was kind of mid back right and the ball's curving left. And I'm going, well, just hang on there, you know, catch a piece of the green. Let me two putt get out of this long hole. And it kicks a little right and rolls up there. And I go, hey, it might be 15 feet. And it's, you know, like this. So I I think I missed the putt. But to putting is fun's also an attitude, right? So when you when you go to a to golf town, it's a giant, you know, like big box golf. speaker-1: Yeah, and they there's not much competition. Now there's a few dicks in Canada, but Golftown really has pretty much a monopoly. So yeah, huge box stores, they're the primary retailer for everything. speaker-0: If you and if you go in there and you buy a putter or you're looking at a putter and you say, Hey, I want to get this bent, you know, I'll buy it. Can bet they'll they'll they can do repairs and stuff that that speaker-1: Yeah, we they've really improved that service the last couple of years. They've because most of the fitting has been more boutique style and it's a little more decentralized and you know, sort of smaller shops who do that. But now Golf Town's tried to, you know, be get into that game a little bit more. So they'll do anything for you on the spot. speaker-0: That's absolutely awesome. so what kind of putter do you gain, sir? speaker-1: I yeah, I have I think it's it might be about twenty years old now. I'm not sure. It's a it's a ping zing. It's a blade. yeah, it's like a it's like a pewter colour. speaker-0: Okay, so you got a ping zing two. speaker-1: Yeah, okay, Ping Zing 2. And it's and it's heavy. It's got a 25 gram weight in both the toe and the heel. speaker-0: Really? speaker-1: And just an old gummy standard size golf pride grip that I have not replaced since I got the putter because it is just part of the product and it's straight in my hand. speaker-0: Yeah, no, it it feels sure. speaker-1: And Yeah, actually a buddy gave it to me at another Canadian pro. He was moving to Vietnam to take on a head pro job there. And he left and we were roommates at the time. And he left some stuff. And that ping zing putter was sticking out of the bag. And I said to him, I was like, Can I use this? And he sure. He said, I'm never going to come back. So just you know you do whatever you want. And I quickly put it in the bag and I've had it ever since. speaker-0: Well, that's the putter that Curtis Strange made for me. He won two U.S. opens with that Zing 2. And and and and a gentleman named Biagio Manzella, my dad, Basil Manzella. Putted with a ping zing too the last five or six years of his life, and it's the best he ever putted. What's interesting about what he would do with that putter, and I think I've said it in the show before, but what the hell? Is he would he would always practice up against the pin, and it was you know a hard metal end of the pin and kind of bang the pin with the putter. And I think he did it so many times over a few years, he took a laugh off and he kept making his hands go further and further back to get the ball a roll. And at some point his his wrists were so backwards like like with Zach Johnson, you know, like a flat right wrist and a bent left wrist. Most most people putting might have both wrists bent, or if you're more Nicholas or or Mickelson who copied Ben Crenshaw, Flat left wrist, bat right wrist. It's the opposite. And you it's already kind of flipped, so you can't flip it anymore. And he he he became a really good putter on on slow greens. So that it, you know, Curtis Strange was a wizard from eight feet and in. And I just don't think that putter style, I don't think Ping has that putter style in the line anymore. Somebody could correct me if I if I'm wrong, but so you know. speaker-1: They do the answer in a slant neck, but not that yeah, not that same blade. speaker-0: Just just think about this. When that putter came out, my dad went to the Henry Thomas golf shop. speaker-1: I was gonna ask if your dad got that in a small town in Palermo somewhere, but Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Peop people don't maybe don't know that, that you're that's part of your background and my my wife's family's all from from that area too. So speaker-0: You know all about us crazy dang people. The Sicilian blood is is undefeated. So it truly is. So when he bought that putter, and I think he bought it new, and he always was making a deal with Mr. Thomas. Mr. Thomas was a wheeler and dealer because he he needed to go, he needed some money to go bet at the track. We got a real good racetrack here, you know, for the horsies. Yeah. The fairgrounds. So anyway, it was I I don't want to say it was by. The most expensive putter on the market, it was right there. And at today's prices, just adjusting for inflation, right? Because he probably bought that putter in like 83 or 4 or something like that. I'm just guessing he passed in in in 87. So yeah, 82 or 3 or 4, somewhere in there, but probably 82 or three. Okay. Let's say it was $70 then. That was a lot. So okay, maybe if you injusted for inflation, it's $190. If you go to that store, Golf Town, and you know, you're a 16-year-old kid, and now you're really torn up on golf, and your mama says, Well, what do you want for your birthday, little Timmy? And you say, I I want a good putter from you know golf town. Okay. He's thinking like Scotty Cameron or, you know, so he's thinking three, four hundred. He's not thinking 180, 175. Yeah. Do you do you think people Not tour players in general. But we can talk about them in a second. Put better or worse than they did when you first started teaching. speaker-1: Do now do you mean like do my students put better? Like the people I c populace. speaker-0: Well no, I'm just gonna say people. I'm I just want that that you know of, right? The the the the people you teach, the people you play with, maybe if if you you might be teaching a kid and you you're at a tournament watching him and the other people in the tournament. Do you think people, not counting tour players, putt better or worse than when you first started teaching what, twenty how many years ago? speaker-1: Yeah, about twenty years ago. Yeah. speaker-0: Okay. So speaker-1: I mean, I'd say it's like a break even. I'll give you an example. I I caddied for one of my youngest students this weekend. He played in the city championship here in Toronto, course called Humber Valley. Fun time. I promised him a year ago that I was gonna do it. I'm I'm sort of on a paternity leave, but I I kept my promise because he's such a great young guy. And so we we went out and did this. One of the guys in his group who like, you know, looked like the shooter. He had the he had the monogram bag and everything and he had a six thousand dollar set of clubs, custom fit. And I could see right away he's got the lab, lab golf putter, zero torque. speaker-0: Right. Which you know which which model? One of the original, speaker-1: I don't know. I I I speaker-0: you know, big big potato mash or big speaker-1: Black, you know, like Green Lantern style thing. And he it custom shaft in the putter, right? So I'm like, man, this kid's you in Canada, I'm like, this kid's probably got a $750 putter. He's in grade eight. that kid shot 125. So, and like I'm not I'm not picking on him, and you know, like club fitting has a lot of benefits, but this was a case where it's like this guy could have just got it. Cut her out of one of his dad's buddies' garages and been just fine. speaker-0: So what what what what did your what did your student putt with? speaker-1: He has a he's got a spider. He's got a he's a lefty and he's got a spider. speaker-0: So this kid didn't putt better than anybody else shooting 125 in the junior tournament 20 years ago. So speaker-1: You can't buy it. speaker-0: in 1993, a a buddy of mine and his brother, who I was real good friends with, cattied for me a lot in when I played tournament golf. We got together, we played. I just got back from one of my trips to see Ben Doyle, and I played terrible. Thinking I was gonna really impress because we hadn't played. I started those two in golf when they were like eighteen. So there was like a five year, six period period of time where we didn't play. And I just I couldn't wait to go out there and like show I'm a real champion now. Eighty three on my home course. And then but but we felt good then. Yeah. They they they they had fun, I had fun. We started getting more of the guys together, and within a month or two The Nunes Tour version one was formed. We wound up with about 40 or 50 guys at some point. Now we have maybe 18 or 20. And we did that for years, you know, not a bunch of years, but let's just say seven or eight years. And then it I moved to Louisville and they they got kids and the kids got older, and you know how that is, right? So so we started doing this again like three or four years ago. So we got Nunes tour 2, right? A lot of the same guys. Some of their kids are grown men now, but their own kids. Cool. And they're better putters now. It's not even close. Now, I don't know whether that's everybody's putting with a little bit better putter. I don't know if it's some of these people have been playing for 30 and 40 years now and they they know how to putt. Greens are so much better, even at cruddy public courses. than they ever were. The expectation is really high. But when I go to tournaments, which I don't go to that much, I don't I don't think people putt any better, you know, like in the member member or the, you know, or the or the city champion junior tournament or something like that. Just don't but but as soon as you ramp up to AJGA on the way to the tour, People are unbelievably good putters. So this whole stat that you you see recycled on the socials a lot where compare the stats on the PGA tour 20 years ago to now, right? It looks like people aren't putting better. But I say the greens are slopier and faster and they're playing for more money. So they're putting if they're putting the same numerically, they're probably putting better. What's the first time you putted on a golf course, you know, not your home course, that was just like, whoa, this is a different sport? speaker-1: Yeah, well probably when I started to spend some winters caddying and working down in South Florida and starting to get onto those re like some some of the elite private clubs with those like Tiff Eagle Bermuda Greens when they when it gets hot and they shave down and there's there's no grass. speaker-0: No. G give me a couple, give me a couple of clubs now. Give me some names here. People, people love love course. speaker-1: Well, yeah, I mean like I was lucky. I I worked at MacArthur Golf Club in Hope Sound for, you know, six or seven years, a long time. And and it's it borders the Metalist, right? They actually share property. You can see holes right across the street. And those were kind of two of the the OGs in that neighborhood before it's just exploded now and and you got apogee across the street. speaker-0: Going down there to talk at the Trackman University thirtieth. speaker-1: Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. You're going to apogee, that's cool. A Canadian guy is the GM there, very, very well respected guy in the industry. speaker-0: So those greens were obviously a lot different than the greens that y you putted on back home. speaker-1: Yeah, be and like that's what they say about a lot of tour players, I'm sure you know as well, right? Like the guys who grow up in the south who grow up with knowing how to read grain have a big advantage when they get onto the full tour versus a guy who grows up in Ohio and has always putted on bent grass. because learning to chip and learning to putt on on grainy grass and in at different times of season, I mean, man, it takes a lot of adjusting and it and it you you can s second guess yourself pretty easy when you got a right to left or that with grain going left to right and You know, that that's there's some nuance to that. So yeah. speaker-0: So when I watch these kids, it I just keep thinking about this AJGA tournament that was here at the place where I grew up, but the course is a new fancy course. And it was just a cruddy day. It rained and it rained, and I was I was in an umbrella and I got drenched just walking out in an umbrella. My shoes, I had to like, you know, put them in drive home bare feet. I thought they wouldn't even play. You know, the kid that I teach a little bit, I don't know what he shot. Is that 75 or something? That's pretty good play in in crud. Somebody shot 66. It doesn't even make any sense to me, right? He's the third best player on his high school team. There's more good golfers than there's ever been, but he had to make a lot of pots. I, you know, I I shot, I have I have not shot in the 60s on that particular course yet. I say that yet. But I got the scorecard right here when I shot seventy two and thirty one putts. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: One, two, three, four. I made four birdies. Yeah. I hit twelve greens, eight fairways, three out of seven up and down, one out of three out of bunkers. Yeah. You know, I think if I played the course five times in a row, I'd shoot 69 once from it was like 6,500. That's not the point. The point is, that's a good putting run. I remember grinding I I played with the student who played in that AJG tournament that I was talking about, that the kid shot 66 in. I hadn't shot even on that course yet. And all the other courses that aren't there anymore, what is one of them that's still there? It used to be 72 hole. So one of them's still there. I shot 63 there when it was a par 70. I shot 67 on one par 72. I shot 68 on the other par 72. And I shot two 59s on the par 68. But I hadn't shot even par on this course yet. Then I played maybe eight or nine times. So I played with the kid. I had to grind in some seven, eight footers on those last couple of holes, and I had to birdie 18 to do it. So that's a lot of putts. Like when you go to a tour event or watch a tour event on TV, what they're doing with a putter in their hand, technically, is very, very different than what they were doing 20 years ago. Here's the question for a very practical, very good teacher. How much of that can you teach? regular people. The tour, the current modern tour putting stroke. A lot of back muscles moving all over the place. Just the little wrist, the the the the the thing that's become in vogue, which I kinda like a little bit, you know, the long back, long, long backs playing with a shorter follow through. Is this is this a is this something is this is it a trickle down? Do you think it's trickled down into the ten handicap or world that You know, we give a lot of lessons still in. And do you teach Mr. Fabersham, the 65-year-old accountant, 14 handicapper that says, I'm retired in a year, kid, and I want to get into the single digits before they put me in a pine box. So you want to chop five off of Mr. Fabersham? Are you teaching them the, you know, Jake Knapp's putting stroke, by the way, crafted by John Ortega? Whereas, you know, it's a lot of Good great great stroke, right? A lot of ch and those back those two band. I I just cracked my back practicing it here right in the studio. Sitting in a chair. Do speaker-1: Voice. speaker-0: you d what what says you? Is that what you're gonna show Mr. Fabisham? speaker-1: Okay, the simple answer is is no. But I'll say that we do benefit a lot from the tour and the tour coaches now. And I'll say that when I look at myself as a young coach, I've really changed in this regard and I have no ego about it. That like I think we can give, you know, the average player a good tour mentality, which the big one now related to the stats, is we have to get away from the never up, never in, and just think about get it close. And that meant speaker-0: Never, I never, yeah, I'm a nervous putter. I I never bought that. Yeah, I I that's you know, I you know, when Dave Pells came out with that, I heard later that it was it rest his rest his soul. I met him a couple times. We did a golf school together. We the Manzella Academy, when everybody was still talking. No, speaker-1: Total. speaker-0: no, but I'm just saying that group of people, I'm trying to think if it was six of us. Let's see. Me, Jacobs, Finny. So now you know. We're we're in another time. Chris Hamburger, Damon Lucas, and Tom Barlett. Right. So those six guys we did, it was for Pepsi. We did the full swing, and Dave Pells, his son, and this other guy that worked for them did short game and putting. And he was a nice band. So I don't know if he said 18 inches past the hole. I'm trying to remember what it was, but I remember when I tried it, I putted worse. Like I want to dye it and then Lip a lip one in every now and then. speaker-1: You've always been a great putter. speaker-0: No, I I mean I haven't. But I'm just saying, but but but but or or that either. But but I've putted good. See, the thing about putting for me is I've done a lot of really good putting and a ton of not so good putting. And and but that's why to me this that's why I love this show because it's just w the answers are they they're all over the place. And not like the full swing. The answers are really starting to get to be like for me anyway, really small. The answers for putting are obviously you could putt good doing a whole bunch of stuff. I don't see any trickle down from tour putting strokes to regular golfer. So what do you what do you teach people when they come to you? They they they they they're twenty-five handicap or they they're still using their you know their their interlock grip. Right, you know. Yeah, glove on with the putter. They have no idea anything. Give me give me a as far as You can, you know, say on like some people are watching, but a lot of people, you know, listen to the podcast on the podcast things like Spotify and Apple and all that stuff. What give me a putting lesson here? What what a what am I doing? I'm a twenty. speaker-1: Sure. I mean, in all all of my lessons, I always just ask people just to just show me some of the things that they do. Like I don't give them any information. I want to see what they do. speaker-0: Yeah, so this guy has the ball back in the stance. He has a strong overlap, interlocked grip. He has his right thumb behind the putter and he plays it back in the stance. And he sh he he takes the grip back first. So he's he's kind of like a lagging clubhead takeaway. Grip back first. And then he mini shoves his hands and then flips it and winds up with the toe pointing at the target. I'm just coming to think of I I didn't make that up to be funny, folks. speaker-1: No, that's speaker-0: That's that's that's what you're gonna see, twenty five handicap putting stroke. speaker-1: Yeah. So I'd I'd I'd grab that butter pretty quick after watching one of those strokes, right? Yeah. speaker-0: You're going, this is easy pickings. I'm gonna make him better. speaker-1: It it is. I think if putting if it was more sustainable I might just coach putting. It's a lot of fun and it's gratifying and speaker-0: Don't start shanking. speaker-1: Like I th one of the things I always say to people is like if if you and I were putting Brian and or like say you and I were on the range and then Rory showed up next to us and and we said, Okay, we're gonna have a a driving contest Well like, you know, it would just hand him our our visa number or Venmo number or whatever. speaker-0: Flip flip cars like at the end of the at the end of the restaurant bill. speaker-1: He doesn't need to see me run it, you know, try to run into one. But if Rory showed up and and we all had the same ten footer and we said, Hey, you know, let's see who makes this one, the odds really shrink there, right? Like even speaker-0: I've beaten David Toms at eleven, at least eleven times. You know the putty game. You know the putting game eleven? speaker-1: No. Well is it like twenty one? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, you make you get you get one for an you get three for an ace, you get one for closest to the hole. But if you go over, you go back to zero. Okay. speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: So if you got nine, like if I got eight, you might put and you and you just won the hole and I got eight, you might putt ball backwards and go, okay, Manzella. I gotta put it further away backwards. So you're you want me to get to nine because now I got I can't make it because I'll go to zero, right? Yeah. But that's a good putting game to do. And David Thoms is one of the best putters who ever lived. Sure. And I'm not. And I've beat him a bunch of times in that game. And I have never beat him at golf. Never. Not close. Three speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: once when he shot 67 or something. That was a close step. speaker-1: That that probably felt pretty good though. Yeah. speaker-0: But but but but Rory against you and me, you know, one time around the clock we might run two or three of in and he runs one of in and we say, Hey Rory, at twenty, you can you can either you can either give me twenty or you can Venmo me. Here's my Venmo ready. Yeah. speaker-1: I mean Rory against my, you know, fifteen handicapped seventy year old man or woman that I that I coach. We give you know, three putts, like they might get one closer than Rory or in, you know. speaker-0: So let me ask you some sp specific questions. Reverse overlap? speaker-1: Yes. left hand low for me, but I have speaker-0: No, no, I'm just talking about Mr. Fabersham that way. speaker-1: Yeah. Ideally, yeah, conventional reverse overlap if they can have speaker-0: How much in the palms? A lot or or just a little? Like Tiger's not that much, folks. So if you look at Tiger, he's got it half under the heel pad, not complete under the heel pad, like he's hitting the seven on. Yeah. But he does not have it running up his lifeline of his left hand. speaker-1: No, well he's got a sort of a s a alternative overlap as well. So he that stretches his his fingers a little bit away from the grip. So yeah, I mean I I I don't know. There's no hard rule for me on that one, as long as I see some stability to it. speaker-0: You want the thumbs, we want the thumbs on the ground. speaker-1: Thumbs thumbs on the top, right? My my no speaker-0: What about what about the the forty year old finger, no? speaker-1: I don't like the single pistol or the double pistol. I don't like that as a leverage point. unless somebody comes to me and it's really cultivated and they can control the speed well, you know. Yeah. speaker-0: So now we we we kinda centered hands, look like a big a capital Y or or we we're going more like a Nicholas or or Bickelson hands forward or what speaker-1: You see you see the some guys who got the you know Yeah. That the the out elbows and then they keep that sort of speaker-0: Yeah, the Paul the Paul Runyon sort of elbows. Yeah. speaker-1: Right, that move and and if somebody comes to me and they putt while doing that, great. But otherwise I really like squ elbows elbows pretty much on the ribs, especially the trailer. speaker-0: Potters l or or a little enough length of potter to have some bend. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some bend. And then like, you know, like you get some of the ulnar droop in the wrists and so that the forearms look like they kind of line up with the shaft. Like that one kind of is pretty big. And i if I'm looking for conventional setup, I'm trying to get players there. speaker-0: Hand you d dragging the handle back a bunch or or little wrist or speaker-1: So I always my I I think my whole coaching philosophy is based on that famous Tiger Woods chat the second time he was at Augusta when he talked to Ben Crenshaw and w talking on the putting green and asked Ben about, you know, what what's special about his stroke or what does he do? And and he Ben just said, I always I wanna feel the putter head get behind my hands in the back swing and pass my hands in the follow through. Right. So like a you know, it's and I have to tell players, it's not really a hinge, but you're, you know, you're gonna see some there's a little bit of movement in those wrists. And what I usually get players doing if they especially if they struggle with speed, if somebody tells me, yeah, like they're they're not good at speed control, and that's usually something players lack if they're a me a novice golfer, they can't get it close from outside twenty feet. We do some a lot of one-handed putts, a lot of just trail hand putts, like the dominant hand they'd throw a ball or roll a ball with. and that gets them, you know, they they feel that they can feel the putters much heavier with one hand, so they can start to connect with how heavy the head is and that can start to let it pendulum, let it speaker-0: What about what about okay, so I I I got I got my setup here, I got my grip. You talk trench all with a little get the club behind my hands now. Am I mini lagging it out of there or am I just trying to reverse what I did going back? What am I doing to transition? Any anything particular? speaker-1: I'm I always just describe it as it's i you you gotta let it swing, right? And I'll I'll literally hold my putter in the air and and do like the big, you know, sort of pendulum. It's hard with this light pencil. speaker-0: Yeah, no he's holding a pencil and swinging. speaker-1: Trying to say that the the club head has to move a lot more than the grip. And like I I unfortunately, and I'm gonna drag my dad's name through the mud here like I do in some other lessons, but poor poor guy, Vic Harris, but he always used to putt where it's like he moved the grip and the putter head like they were on a conveyor belt. Yes. And then he had this crazy follow through to try to generate whatever speed he needed at the last second and bad contact. And I was like, you know, dad, this stroke has no momentum. Like you're not swi you can't swing the whole club. You gotta you you gotta get the head swinging. You gotta start to connect with the weight of that. And he was really he really benefited when we just did some one hand putting. And I think he butts some some from what distance with one hand sometimes. speaker-0: So how about this? I I actually teach a little leg in transition. Yeah, okay. So far we're very similar. And then I I want you to set it and then mini drag it before you throw it. speaker-1: Interesting. Like you'll tell the average player that they want to feel some of that. speaker-0: Yeah. Okay. I'll I'll make them do it. I'll just I'll you putt and I'll just use my finger, right? And I'll just make them speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: because if you and you could try this, folks. I'm gonna explain this so that the people not watching can get it. Right. So if you take the if you take the two bunny fingers, right, and you hold the putter with the just those fingers, uh-huh, and you just try to swing it with that, you cannot hit a 20-footer unless you leg it. You you have to you you have to really torque it to get the crunch or backswing to get the put behind your hands. Yeah. And then if you just try to just retorque it or just let it swing, you can hit it ten feet. To hit it twenty feet, you gotta drag it and then kind of let the weight fling past. So that gave me the idea. Or you could just pinch with your with the your thumb and forefinger and and do it. You'll see that you need a little lag in transition. And but I'm okay with not teaching anybody to do that on purpose, right? So speaker-1: I see what you mean. I and I think that probably I don't say it explicitly, but it yeah, it has to happen for them to still maintain the loft and everything like that properly. speaker-0: Now what so now what have you do any kind of like do you want to hit up on and what what about the through? Clean of the shaft and the and the attack angle of the putter? speaker-1: No, it's not specific that way, right? Like, I mean, obviously if I see the ball bouncing or skidding strangely, then we gotta look we'll just look at setup and go, okay, like why is this coming out low? I mean, there there are players who do loft it too much or rarely do I see somebody adding too much loft. but sometimes, right? So, but usually there's some stuff you can address in the setup there if you see the ball coming out weird. speaker-0: So Kevin Abair, I played with him Sunday, and he's got one of Mark Nunez, the commissioner of the Nunes Tour, who loves putters, right? And has had a bunch of them. a a Bettin Artie, a good Bett Nartie, got a 15-inch Garson quad tour, like I have. I have a 15-inch quad tour, and he putts conventional balls slightly back in his stance. At least hits down on it four degrees. I promise you. I watched him like Through his legs, you know, from behind, I'd have my butt and he'd be over there. And it's the guy's a good putter. He's not a great putter. Could he putt better if I gave a putting lesson or Kieran? Probably. But the point is, you can hit down on it and be a good putter. I played a ton of golf with Freddie Haas, who won five times on tour, was the first Walker Cup and Ryder Cup player of any from any country. First person alive that played on a Walker Cup team and then a Ryder Cup team, played in the first Masters. And won the 12th tournament when Byron Nelson won 11 in a row. He beat he finally beat him. speaker-1: Good. speaker-0: And was an unbelievable putter and had a line of putters that you can still buy a bunch of them. And he came up that little dot in the circle that Ping is now using on those alley putters. So anyway, Freddie bit down on it a little. And and it looks like, you know, even though Nicholas, sorry, not Nicholas. I think Nicholas kind of was more level, but Palmer looks like he even though he threw it a lot, he looks like he hit down on it. You know, at the end of the day, I I like the the theory, right? You you've got a putter's probably got three degrees, three and a half degrees of loft. Take take some of that loft off and hit up on it a little. Like that that's what I tell people. Look, let me show you. And it may, you know, they get the ball rolling. It Ideally that's what I would have anybody do. Do you ever implicitly say, hey, you know, level up or lean forward, no lean, just or just return to address, which would work like pretty good too. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, like I'll look pretty closely and I'll use some slow-mo video from from face on or yeah, from face on just to sort of see that original role. I mean, like I've used Quintech quite a bit in the past too, and and you know, Sam more probably 10 or 15 years ago. so like in a in a fitting standpoint, definitely then I would like, okay, let's get this thing rolling right away. And we'd, you know, we'd look at s setup and stroke and and loft, right? Loft is obviously the easiest, lowest hanging fruit without changing things. And I do ad I do advise players sometimes to change the loft of their putter. I do see some equipment stuff like that where it's like, you know, I think you and and John were even talking about it how, you know, the the metal neck, like the whether it's plumber's neck or slant neck or whatever, you know, like that thing's not made of like wolverine, you know, adamantium. Like if if you're if you're sit watching waiting for your buddy to make a six footer and you're leaning on the putter as a as a habit, you know, every single round of your life, well You better believe the loft and and lies and things are changing throughout the season and and especially over a couple of years. speaker-0: If if you go I wanna I wanna I wanna make a point on top of that very good point that you made there, Kieran. Watch this folks. You you can try this one on. Edwin Watts has got their, you know, five hundred putters, four hundred putters out. And then they right there, this just one Ebon Watts here in Canada, Louisiana by the airport, has the used putters like outside the little putting green, but right there, like all touching each other. Go look at an answer neck, plumber's neck putter. So go to a store that has answer style putters, could be Cameron's, could be Taylor made Rossas, could be Paretti's, whatever, right? Or John speaker-1: They're all answers. Yeah. speaker-0: Byron's, anything you want, J J two O's, right? Anyone you want. And look at about four brand new ones. Just four different ones. Look at the pings, yeah, answer, yeah, that's I mean Scotty Cameron Tailormade, Wilson, whatever, right? Go look at the used putters. You pick any ones you want. They crooked as hell, man. Yeah. You can't take a plumber's neck putter and flip it from here to the look at the the studio in the sky business department is over there. I give the lesson. It's about I'm gonna take, let's see what I got here. That's not gonna I gotta get a David Bar, by the way. David Hundred and fifty calories and three grams of fat and I think let's see how much like twenty twenty-eight grams of protein. Very good, by the way. David Barr, our first we we we're not sponsored by them. Now watch this. Listen, let's see if you can hear it. Heard it? Yeah. Yeah. It's just you saw that chest pass. If I take the three putters I have over there that have on the putter rack. And I take the plumber's neck putters dude, I just bet one of them. Sure. Of course. It's eight feet. It's two feet downhill. If it lands funny, it could crack. And people think, you know, I'll just flip my putter at the bag or lean on it. Or ooh, ooh, ooh, let me, let me, let me fix, let me fix somebody's ball mark with the toe of my putter because I didn't bring a tea or something like that. Those things, if you look at them funny, they who bend, man. And then you will have this. It'll have more turns than the road to Angola State Penitentiary. It'll just be it'll be like, you know, I wonder why I miss all the putts left. Well, it's like five degrees hooked and sixteen degrees aloft on a putter that's supposed to be zero hook and three degrees aloft. But yeah. speaker-1: And everybody usually does that with the same hand, right? If you're using the putter as like a a little crutch on the green or something, you you're usually holding it in that same hand round after round, you know, year after year. So there's a constant erosion on that little metal piece holding the shaft and the putter head together. speaker-0: And if it's, you know, you're not a keep your putter perfect, you know, putter cover. If I lost my putter cover, I would, I would walk in. Or I would hold the putter in my hand. You know, it's the best putter I've ever owned. I I putted very yeah, I had 29 putts Sunday, but like my my my little thing that was working for two rounds, 25 and 26, it went kind of away and cost me a couple shots. Very, very unhappy. I I I've putted good 500 different And I've put it bad 499 ways. So I can't be complaining with 27 putts around the last three rounds. I I know I know I need to I know I need to get better. Anyway, you take any good putter and you scoop balls out of the hole with it, right? Because you can do it with an answer or or a zing, right? You can and you you're gonna bend it eventually. You're gonna catch it in there a few times. You say, no, I'm just scarring it up, and then then and listen. If you get a ping answer, Magganese bronze. I don't I don't know what the deal is with Magganese bronze, you know, the the original ping, you know, powder metal, it didn't nick very much. The faces of Scottsdales and stuff that are on the internet that people are trying to sell. I wonder what this is worth. They're not all scarred up. You get a Scotty Cameron with 303 or something, so 8620 or whatever that other metal is, the son of a gun's. If you don't keep a c putter cover on them, you throw them in the bag with your damn seven irons and eight irons banging around, they get beat up, you know. So that's if you're gonna putt with a putter that's, you know, not something you bought at Goodwill for crying out loud, you know, just put a soft on it or something. That's what everybody wants to do to me. They want to put a sock in my mouth, just put it on the cover. Not after after they put it in my mouth. Okay. So here's another question right here. Putting instruction today. So if you go to somebody, right, who's a putter teacher of note, not not famous, not the 10 guys in the world or 20, it's really low number. Girls or guys, I don't want to be sexist. Teachers who are famous putting instructors. There's not 20. If we make Johnny 20, There's not nineteen people more famous than him putting instructor. You start nailing the names real quick. You go, I can get to twenty. Yeah, I've done it a couple of times with people. You get to like twelve real fast and then you go humming to humming humming like Ralph. speaker-1: I don't think I could get to twelve. I could get to you know six or seven. speaker-0: Let's try. Let's try. All right. I I I'll put a name out. You put a name out. All right. All right, we got Ortega. Okay. Phil Kenyon. Give me another one. speaker-1: Yeah, I was gonna use Phil Kenyan. a guy I actually did a couple lessons with is t Marcus Potter. Do you know Marcus Potter? Guy from Oregon He's from he's from Oregon. He works with he works with five or six guys on the tour, Tom Hall. speaker-0: You came with a name. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now in it what about the the the the is then isn't that a Marcus Philomet Micer Micer isn't a guy from I'm trying to think. Who's the guy? Who's the guy from Sam Putlab? speaker-1: I don't have his name either. speaker-0: Okay. yeah, all right. Let's go. let's go Preston Combs. speaker-1: Yep. Hang on. Ralph Bauer. Canadian coaches near me. speaker-0: All right, Ralph Bow. Okay. Graham. speaker-1: Yeah, see now I'm now I'm now I'm grasping at straws over here, so speaker-0: See what I'm saying? Okay, so I made my point already. The point is there's not that many, twenty maybe. Okay. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: I I probably missed somebody that speaker-1: There's a y young guy named Tyrus York who's who's part of your old old crew in Kentucky there. speaker-0: Absolutely. I know Tyrus. Okay. So you you you come with twenty, but you're not gonna come with thirty. I'm talking about the guys and gals who are considered to be in their area. yeah, well you wanna take a putting lesson, you gotta go see, you know, blah blah blah. Okay. Yeah. So now they're gonna be probably in some studio. Yeah. They're probably gonna have Sam Putt Lab or or Capto or both, which are both putter measurers. I use track man, but I use trackman for everything. They're probably gonna have some kind of ball vision something. They might have Quintech, which is the the industry standard, right? Very high-end cameras down by the ball, showing you exactly when they start rolling and the loft and all this kind stuff. And some video, right? Maybe even they put you in 3D, maybe put you in gears or something like that. To me, there's a lot of similarities if you went to those 20 people. speaker-1: So why do they get to charge six hundred an hour? Is our question. speaker-0: No, no, it's a good question. No, I mean that you know how that is. speaker-1: What's the niche? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. You know, I hate going up on prices. speaker-1: and I'm speaker-0: Because when I started I was twenty for adults and fifteen for juniors, you know. So now I'm three hundred for adults and twenty for students. That's my new thing, 'cause juniors stop at eighteen. So what are you a nineteen year old kid still living at mommy and daddy's? No, no, no, no. Students. So if you're a college student. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: So, you know, that's what I charge. Now, if you look at the top 50 list and you start, you know, at top and you go down and you run over Jacobs at $500 an hour and you get to Manzella a couple spots under, I'm the first guy at $300. So I'm underpriced at least by $100 an hour. Now it's market driven, but part of it is what you want to charge. Do you would you rather give six, six $300 lessons? Is $1800, or would you rather give nine $200 lessons for $1800? I'd rather give six because I got two jobs with funnel. And I'd rather I'd rather give six. What's gonna happen, you know, if if if if this gets to be more of a job, but then I'm I don't know if I'm gonna go up again. But the point is, I think take the money out of it. Because if you get somebody that wins a couple majors, all of a sudden your putting instruction went up here. How would you like your chances against any of those guys if you just said, okay, we're gonna line up a hundred golfers and you got five minutes with each one of them, with with, you know, you know some stuff too. It's not like I'm saying they know some stuff and you don't. Yeah. No, you know some stuff too. But the the the practical of teaching regular people, I think I I I'm just, you know, hey, I'll give you one. I I got one for you that's teaching something different. Dave Adell. Mm-hmm. So, you know, he he was a putter golf teacher from the same tree, the Ben Doyle tree. former Ben Doyle student, Dave Adell, Pacific Northwest, got in the putter fitting, putter making business, then did irons and everything with his company, eventually sold that company to the folks that do Coors Beer, you know, that that family. And And now I guess he's got a non-compete for a little bit, but he's he can give lessons and he's doing nicklace putting more or less, right arm only necklace putting, which a lot of golfing machiners back in the day were big on that, on that, on that stroke. So I think that what I'm trying to say is don't you think that it's a little bit there's a little too much similarity in the in the high end putting teaching world because they're all using the same devices and they're They're using the same number sets from the best players in the world. And it's like I don't see anybody doing anything really different. speaker-1: I I agree one hundred percent. And I think the trickle down to the average players we're talking about, you know, going back to that analogy of like, hey, if if Rory showed up right now and all three of us get a ten footer, our our odds aren't terrible, you know, to maybe win a c a best of three or a best of five or something. Like I always say to somebody, it's like if you can throw a sock in the laundry bin or a, you know, piece of trash in the garbage with some decency, that's the most translatable skill to putting a ball or chipping a ball in the short game, right? That sort of like brain eye connection down to how do I get something to go there? Yeah. And it doesn't be speaker-0: A speaker-1: too complex. speaker-0: hundred percent. If you went to Norman Playground where I used to play touch football, it was like you you ever saw the movie White Men Can't Jump? speaker-1: Yeah, of course. speaker-0: So Venice Beach. I've been to Venice Beach. They were playing ball there. I I could have hung, you know, when I was twenty five, thirty five in the basketball game. speaker-1: Yep. Low post guy. Point guard? speaker-0: No, no, no. No, no. Sho volume shooter. Volume shooter. Volume shooter. Catch a real speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: are you kidding? So I give Finney a little credit. A lot better basketball player than me. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah. speaker-0: Low post. Six foot low post guy. You know. Speak to speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: him anymore, but we that all could change one. But good basketball player. speaker-1: That was a nice thing you just said. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. speaker-0: Jacobs played in high school, right? Okay. So there's a lot of David Wedzik, you know, the the five simple keys. David Wedzik. He he was a he was a college basketball player. So there's a lot of but nobody was as good as Mike Granado, AMG. He he played for Mississippi State. He played, he was a great shooter. You know, you always say, Hey Mike, we're gonna we're gonna get a game up. We're gonna get the five guys that like each other, and we're gonna play against the five guys that don't like each other. So the Banzella team against the Finney team, right? And we're gonna play basketball. He'll say, and Mike is six five, you know, he'll say. I'm not gonna rebound. I don't rebound, shoot. I shoot from the corner. I don't rebound. Right. So so when I played at n with you know, at Norman was the football version of Venice Beach. Very much the same, exact same thing. And I did that from 1988 till let's see, this is twenty six, so probably sixteen when I stopped playing. I just got old. I got old and my wife said you get hurt every time you play. And nobody was running into me. I was just like pulling a hammy walking, you know, trying to play, you know, short zone. But there was some jocks over there. And if you go run the clock back at at Norman, the the Norman playground prime was probably the mid nineteen nineties to the mid, you know, twenty nineteen ninety five to twenty zero five, right? And you went there and you said, Okay, guys, there's sixty guys waiting to play, eight on eight, seven on seven. Okay. How many of y'all are golfers? Ain't nobody raising their hand. How many of y'all ever been to putt-putt? A third, right? Okay, I got a deal for you. Once a week, there's a new putt-putt place on the corner. There's not. It's just made up Manzala store. There's a that we just built a putt-putt golfing games. You know, they're not the ones where they that you can't make aces, where there's there's an ace to be made on every speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: And you know, you just gotta play the right bounce, right? And we got our friend Kieran from Canada and JT Parine from Over the Rhine from from Fair Hope, Alabama, and John O'Teo. And John and Kieran and JT are gonna fit y'all for a putter. And you the putter stays here. We're gonna give you another putter exactly like it to take home. Don't sell it, just keep it. Here's what you got to do: we're paying you a hundred an hour to practice two hours a week. And we know we got the cameras. So we know if you come here and practice. You can if you want to come here and you want to play for a quarter against the other guys that are practicing, because we just gave the putters and made this deal with 30 guys. Okay, so 30 jocks. That can all dunk a basketball, throw a football 50 yards, and play, you know, cover two, that aren't golfers, you give them putters and you don't give them any instruction. And you come back in a year, and they've been collecting their $100 an hour, and they're probably playing all kinds of games, you know, they they made up themselves. They get the idea. You play 18 holes and you write a score down. What are we looking at? We have some complete wrist putters, right? We got some ridiculously open stances, crazy closed stances, every kind of known grip demand, right? Right. Now you say, yeah, but that's one subset of golfers. okay, great. We're gonna go to Ben Franklin High, or you know, which is right down the street right here on the campus of the Louisiana State University at New Orleans, where I have a scholarship, I was a scholarship golfer and have a little diploma that. Doesn't do me much good teaching golf, but I'm glad I got it. I got one. Made my mom and daddy happy. And we're gonna go get a bunch of those kids and we're gonna do the same thing, except they go to City Park and get on to practice putting green and putting on grass. They're just a different group of kids. They're kind of nerdy, you know, kids, you know. And then the other kids are not nerdy. And but but in a year, you're gonna see pretty similar stuff that's not. what you see on the practice putting green at a tour event. We're not gonna see tour strokes, correct? Sure. Yeah. Nobody's gonna even accidentally arm and shoulder stroke, are they? speaker-1: Probably not. speaker-0: So the question has to be asked, is it the and and the reason I brought it up, none of it is gonna look like what those 20 putting teachers would teach those people if we had a third set of them that went to the 30 biggest putting stroke teachers in the world. We got 30 more kids from another group, you know, another subset, and we're gonna test them against the other two groups. Now, I think the 30 that have lessons are gonna win the the the contest on the Practice putting green at Oakmont. You ever been to Oakmont? speaker-1: Never. speaker-0: They play a little game with you that they make you go through the clubhouse that's show you memorabilia. And then you walk past the blue haired ladies and you walk out the steps to put on to practice putting green. They say, Hey, you want to take your putter? We're going to put a couple of putting well, who's going to say no? So you got your putter and two balls in your hands. You walk down the steps and you walk on to practice putting green and you pick putt what do you do? What do you do? You drop two balls, right? And you you pick a pin, you know, a little short pin. And you know what happens when you drop the two balls? And they laugh and they laugh and they laugh at you. Because you're you're the sucker. But I I might have spalled you fun. So I'm not saying that the contest on that practice putting green at Oakmont that the 30 random kids that you sent to the 30 best putting instructors are not gonna win. I think it's gonna be pretty good win. But There's gonna be one or two people that can really putt out of both of those other two groups and they're gonna be doing none of the above. speaker-1: Than other than athletically looking at a target and just letting the ball get there somehow. speaker-0: So I think about the the people I grew up playing golf with. And I don't remember any of the guys I started playing with when I was 10. I still one of them is in the on a newness tour, Steve Finn. Steve was never a bad putter. Johnny Scurridge, never a bad putter. I was okay. I think they were a little bit better putters than me. I think I might have been pretty good short putter. I was trying to imitate Johnny Miller with the knock-knees and the little pop stroke. And and all the guys my dad played with, that you know, the lowest handicap was like a four, and the highest handicap was a 24. And I saw those guys, you know, play with my dad for 20 years and I would look, none of those guys had the yips. None of them look like Jake putting, right? I'm I'm I'm only Jake, if you're watching this, I'm I'm I'm picking on you because then nobody can say I'm picking on somebody else because everybody knows I like you. Okay. So and you have a wonderful putting stroke, don't change. Let's just do what Johnny's told you since you're eight. So, because I think he's gonna win a major. If he does it, if if the thumb heals up, I think he's gonna win a major in the next two. speaker-1: It's an amazing total package he has. speaker-0: He you know, I mean everybody loves to swing. I I knew he was gonna be a star, I knew it. So anyway, w what is to be learned from the fact that the best three kids from the Norman group and the best three kids from the Ben Franklin group are gonna look nothing like the tour putting stroke or anything that's being taught right now. Is that it just it doesn't mean anything or it means something? speaker-1: That's a good question. And if it like if I bring that analogy around, like with because by the way, you're like one of the masters of these like on the spot crazy story analogies that you can just come up with. I don't know. Must be all those days running the karaoke bar and just entertaining the masses, but like speaker-0: It was nothing. Yeah. But speaker-1: like because you picked athletes in that analogy, right? speaker-0: The first group was jocks. Yeah. The second group, Ben Franklin. You're there's all nerds over there. So I got the the nerds, the jocks, and then 30 random kids, random. We didn't go nerd or jock, 30 random kids that are gonna individually go to the 30 biggest name putting history. speaker-1: Yeah. And so but I'd say that, like you said, there's going to be competitors that come out of each of those schools, each of those factions. I think when it comes down to the nitty gritty and the short puts and the six and seven footers, the guys who had the instruction are going to show a clear advantage because they're going to have a structure and a setup that just makes it easier before they even move it. But I think if you put them all at 30 feet to watch the okay, you guys have been training for a year and show us your best 30 footer. might be kind of indecipherable when you you look at them and go who had the coach speaker-0: You're gonna have some you you're gonna have so just look at two of the best putters of all time. Hubert Green and Isaiah Wyoki. What do those two people have in common? If you get this, you get free dinner anywhere in Connecticut. That's a that's an old joke. Want to hold one package before. I'm just saying when we get together, you're getting the you're getting the the fatted calf. What's the what's the what's the deal? speaker-1: I don't know. I I it feels a bit leading, but you know, they they they had to be pretty automatic inside of five feet. Like they had to be top of their class around that time. I don't but speaker-0: Okay. They both got their putters out of barrels. speaker-1: Okay. Okay, so Jim Jim Fure speaker-0: I grew up at a place that had barrel clubs. It was like there was a three dollar barrel and a five dollar barrel. Yubi Green got his putter out of a five dollar barrel. It was short, it was flat, and it was like a calamity jane. You know, it was like a he won a couple majors with it. And then Isaiah Waioki was in Thailand or something playing, you know, you know, over there in Europe and whatever, Asian tour and Asia. And left his putter home and had to play in a tournament and they went in the putt and the only thing they had was 38 inches and 10 degrees upright or whatever the putter was. And he he said the only way he could not fat it, because I think he had like a normal looking putting stroke, the only way he could not fat it was was was was to just, you know, toe way up in the air and just go bip. And he shot sixty two, you know, and then he almost beat Nicholas in the US Open, putting like a wizard. So I just think there's there needs to be a little more variety. That's that's kind of where I was going with that. And I'm I don't think you want to completely take the the individuality out of putting because it is so, you know, at some point mental, right? You gotta make the putter do something. One of the best putters I ever putting with, Buddy Reno cut his putts and knew he cut it. No, he knew he cut it. Could putt anything, could put on slow greens or fast greens or whatever. And you would never teach that stroke to anybody. And Freddie hit down on it. And it's just Bobby Jones would Bobby Jones would do just fine. He would he would he would walk into Gulftown. He'd pick out some blade putter that looked something like he was used to. He would go on whatever fast greens they are in Toronto. And he would get used to it in about five minutes and he'd putt brains out. It just was a good putter. And he was like so much, you know. So I I I think the thing is I I really wish that folks from that just get the idea that you need to try different things. And then and then you can go to Kieran or JT or John or Tego, you know, or any of those other guys I mentioned. And then you can get it polished up a little bit. I I I'm sure that O Aoki and and and Yubi had good numbers. That's why they were good putters, you know. And I and just like I've always said a million times that Lee Trevino got on a track, man. It would look like it would look like Nelson Rockefeller's bank account. It would be zeros coming up. I thought he cut the ball. Yeah, not when he didn't want to. So, man, that was a lot of fun, buddy. I'm so so glad you you warmed up the John Ortega seat while while Johnny is recovering from his little skin surgery. I'm speaker-1: Yeah, we hope. speaker-0: sure he'll have a pretty band aid on soon and Johnny get well. And you know the best part about this show? It's not me, and it and it's not Johnny. Even though Johnny has something to do with this. He wrote this song. And you know what the best b you know what the best part of this song is? Doesn't matter what mood you're in, you're in a good mood now. So much speaker-1: Totally. speaker-0: for joining us today, buddy. You were great. speaker-1: Thanks pro. My honor. Thank you. speaker-0: Or bring out your Scotty or that new fango lab. Your time rollin' putts will surely be fair. Putt putt butt It's just like it seems We can drift away and chill in a dream. But with your rose, go soak up the sun-free vitamin D is good for everyone. I'm just spitting facts, putting is fun.