Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Crypto, ETFs & Big Money—Why Institutions Are Moving Into Bitcoin. - With Lisa Tyshchenko

Transcript

Crypto, ETFs & Big Money—Why Institutions Are Moving Into Bitcoin. - With Lisa Tyshchenko · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin is a competitor to gold and not USD, and this is huge.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Michael Saylor is thinking that Bitcoin is going to reach above 10 million by 2045.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: You think people should still be investing in Bitcoin now, right, how much Bitcoin have you got?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: That's a very good question.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't have enough cash as well, so at this stage I had the flight late evening.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I said I'll go back to the airport because I cannot even buy coffee at this stage.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: It was awful experience.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: What's to say that Bitcoin is the coin.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Myspace used to be the social media platform right.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Then Facebook came along and killed it, yeah, so what's to say that Bitcoin won't just die?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So now, what's the problem there?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: The problem is the following the first is hacking, right.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So Bitcoin and gold is not a zero-sum game.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I think there is place for both of it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: If you want to go fast, you go alone.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: But if you want to go fast, you go alone.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But if you want to go far, you go together well, lisa.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me today on the financial planner life podcast.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Um shaz has obviously introduced you to me as an international lady of digital assets cruising around the world speaking at lots of events about your expertise in in digital assets, so there's been a lot of talk about bitcoin lately so I thought you know what?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I know nothing about bitcoin and I bought some dogecoin once, oh yeah wow, happy for you first off, what do you think about dogecoin?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Is that going to the moon?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Should I hold as they tell me to do?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I think you should hold.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think, after trump's election, so many things has changed.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: It's really behind a big technological push, because it's quite clear that elon musk is moving into tech revolution and he's gonna do so for the next four years and he's a big, big lover of dogecoin.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: So I think you should keep it yeah right, I'll hold on to it, then I will not sell it okay, okay fantastic.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Well listen, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I say well, first off, let's give us a bit of an introduction.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Who are you?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: What do you do?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: so I I can call myself a digital asset expert because I'm working for europe largest digital asset manager already for two years and basically my job is knocking the doors to family offices, independent asset managers, private banks and convince them why they need to invest in digital assets, why Bitcoin can change performance in their portfolio and why is the future coin can change performance in their portfolio and why is the future so I have had a lot of fun in developing business in italy, in switzerland and, who knows, maybe in the future, even middle east.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I feel like this is a place where crypto is booming does it feel like it's continually getting more and more interesting, like more and more people are interesting it?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: yes, of course, because something big has happened in these days.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So three things actually.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: The first, there is regular regulatory adoption.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So can you imagine that?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Federal reserve chair paul just said that Bitcoin is a competitor to gold and not USD, and this is huge.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Second, trump is a crypto friend, as I said right, and he is about nominating Paul Otkins as the next SEC chair, which is again massive, because one of the problems we have had so far is challenges with regulation.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Obviously, it's a risky asset, it's new, so there is a lot of regulation adoptions that need to happen.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And because there is going to be somebody very friendly in SEC, which is massive in US right now to get approved, all the ETFs in crypto is going to be huge impact.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: And, last but not least, there is ETF revolution right now as well.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So since there is ETF in Bitcoin, we have seen a flow of 32 billion and also Ethereum has been around 900 million and fad has been cutting interest rates and probably it's gonna keep cutting.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: And for digital asset like bitcoin, it's a great news because lower interest rate, more investment in a risk asset like bitcoin oh, fantastic.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Have you always been into digital assets?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Is that something?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: you.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: No, no, I have started my career in wealth management like so very traditional.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I started in deutsche bank in geneva and I pretty much liked it, but it's very old school and I really pretty much enjoyed.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: But I feel like for my generation generation you want to like still be in finance but probably get into more revolutionary assets like bitcoin, and when I heard that I had opportunity to join a company that it's making a big impact in the traditional financial services like private banks and so on, I understood this is mine.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I wanted to add value to investors by giving them access to something that is, in my opinion, going to truly change the future rather than, you know, just sell like typical assets classes like funds, stocks, mutual funds and so on.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, okay, cool.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: So you know you can't move at the moment for news articles about Bitcoin and it smashing past the 100k mark.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think of that?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It had to happen.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: We honestly I honestly didn't expect it will have happened so fast, but after Trump's election it has been so clear how it's going to be crypto friendly.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: So just to tell you one thing Senator Lamis has proposed a Bitcoin bill which she's planning basically to buy one million Bitcoins as a reserve, strategic reserve for US in the next five years.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: This is massive and also, what is interesting, in US there are 13 filings.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: So basically it's a report that institutional investors have to do when they hold more than 100 million assets under management, and it looks like only 20% of institutional have invested so far.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So 80% it's retail.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: So retails are dominating still the market and I just let you imagine that if we are going to have all this institutional investment in the future, it's going to be a massive impact on the price.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Very interesting so what do you think is sort of driving the price at the moment?
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Just the election, do you think that's just it, or what else do you think has been driving it past 100?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: So Powell's definitely affirmations that Bitcoin is a competitor to gold and not USD, that has been massive.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Secondly, definitely Trump has been impacting it.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: As I said, the flows in US are very positive and I think, little by little, institutional investors coming out and saying, hey, from now on, we're going to include from 1% to 5% in a portfolio.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: It's impacting as well.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Indeed, I am constantly talking to institutional investors and I'm seeing, little by little, they are keen to include even a small percentage of digital assets in a portfolio like, let's say, 60-40, and they're understanding the impact.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And yes, it's a volatile asset, true, but if you rebalance it every quarter, for instance, then your returns are going to increase, let's say, by 50%.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Your Sharpe ratio doubles Volatility and drawdowns are increasing by 100 basis point.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: That's not a lot.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Of course, if you don't rebalance this asset class and you just let it drift in your portfolio, yes, you're gonna see a lot of volatility, yes, you're gonna see a drawdown and maybe the share price is not gonna be so great okay, interesting.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: and what do you think the ideal percentage of bitcoin should be in a portfolio, then the ideal percentage is 4% and, as I said, it creates only positive impact to your portfolio because it's a small percentage.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: If you rebalance it regularly, as I said, volatility can drop down in check and it makes sense, you know.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so comparison to gold, bitcoin to gold how do you compare that?
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: That's a very interesting question, sam.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: So obviously, what is happening right now is that, after this affirmation from Powell that Bitcoin is competing to gold, people are realizing that it's a great store of value, also because it has very interesting properties.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Let's think about divisibility so you can divide Bitcoin into smaller units called Satoshis.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you can do, like this, micro trading, for instance.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: But can you really divide gold?
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Because if you start to divide gold in pieces, what the impact is is that it's losing value, probably.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Then there is another one.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Let's say like security bitcoin is securitized by decentralized network.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you can just access through a network to bitcoin and gold.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: It's only accessible through specific geographic areas, so it definitely has different properties.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: And also, imagine if today, you have to escape your country and you have gold.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: What do you do?
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Like, can you bring into luggage and just like, go.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: No, it's hard.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: With Bitcoin, you can do this because you have it in your wallet.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin and gold is not a zero-sum game.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I think there is place for both of it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Investors should invest in both of this.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And you know what?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: My favorite quote is the following if you want to go fast, you go alone, but if you want to go far, you go together I like it.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: So this institutional adoption, is it there yet?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: so, yeah, that's another interesting question because, as I said, uh 13f filings, which again is a very important disclosure from 100 million asset allocation managers and it's basically saying that only 20 percent in US are still there.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: However, it's definitely happening.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So, for reasons, for instance, wisconsin, which is the largest pension fund in the US, they hold like more than 130 billion has invested in ETFs.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: We are constantly hearing banks already offering their products and services to investors corporate engagement so actually Microsoft shareholders are going to decide if to put Bitcoin in their strategic reserve in their balance sheet.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: That's huge.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: And think about MicroStrategy.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Microstrategy's CEO, michael Saylor, has been buying Bitcoin all the time.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Right now he's holding 400,000 Bitcoins, which basically is equivalent to above 400 billion of value of Bitcoin, and he thinks that Bitcoin is going to reach 14 million by 2045.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: So say that again.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: So say that again.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Michael Saylor, CEO of MicroStrategy, is thinking that Bitcoin is going to reach above 10 million by 2045.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: By 2045.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that's incredible, so you better invest in Bitcoin.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: You think people should still be investing in Bitcoin now.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Look, I understand that now 100k has been a milestone and people think that is, you know, place in to another correction, so it's gonna go down again to 80, 70 and so on.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: But it's not.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: That's not the right thinking.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: The right thinking is to buy a bit of Bitcoin, hold it or even do a cost dollar average.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So basically, every month, you buy a bit of Bitcoin, hold it or even do a cost dollar average.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: So basically, every month, you buy a bit of Bitcoin, you accumulate it and it doesn't matter what is the price really, because it's going to be like balancing off in the future, right?
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: So this is also a great strategy to keep volatility in place.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So, definitely buy Bitcoin.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Just don't invest all your cash into it today.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Every month, you buy a piece of it and you just keep it in your portfolio and you're gonna be happy how much bitcoin have you got?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that's.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: That's a very good question.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Let's say, look, I have entered in the market in 2017, but that's what's not the time.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I have entered in the market in 2017, but that's not the time I have been in the industry yet.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: So obviously I was not an expert in the market and I have done this mistake.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: When I joined Europe's largest digital asset management firm, I started to ask my colleagues what they are doing, because Bitcoin was only $15,000.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And they suggested to do a cost dollar average.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So every month when you get your salary, you just buy a piece of it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You keep it, no matter what the price.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I haven't followed this advice, so I have been, just, you know, saving cash and I wanted to make a huge investment all in once.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to disclose that I invested, let's say, a lot, um, when it was 50K, but you know now that it's 100K, I'm doubled, I'm happy.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, as an investor, I'm happy, right?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: So you know it's it's, it's an asset that exists since 2009.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Only courageous investors could, you know, know it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And today they are millionaires and maybe billionaires, and that's fine.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I'm happy for them.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I personally entered last year and I'm happy, I doubled so what do you think up against like the dollar up against a pound?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Is it as secure?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: you, you lived in UK, right, I lived in Switzerland.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: We have had an amazing access to spend our money.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So let's just say you have a card, you just go to the shop, you buy something and it has been accessible right.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: In Switzerland, currency has been appreciated all the time, like right now, one Swiss franc, it's 1.06 euro.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy I go shopping.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It's against inflation.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Now let's think about Lebanon, because I have been in Lebanon myself and one afternoon I had spare time and I decided to go in the center of the city.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I found a shop, I found a beautiful dress and I saw this was a perfect dress for waiting ahead in two weeks and I decided to buy it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So I go to pay and I take my MasterCard out, my Visa out, my Amex out, and the lady looks at me and said she cannot accept it because they cannot accept payment in a foreign currency.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So I said what do you do at this stage?
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: You take your card, you go to an ATM, you just withdraw money, I go and I could not withdraw them because I could only withdraw $100 during my travel and, of course, I reached it the day before.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't have enough cash as well.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: So at this stage.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I had the flight late evening.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I said I'll go back to the airport because I cannot even buy buy coffee at this stage.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: It was awful experience but at the same time it made me realize that you know we are taking for granted how much easy access we have to traditional payment services, to our currencies.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: But now let's think about Lebanon again.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Right now there is a war, but even still there is a hyperinflation.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: There is a devaluation of a currency.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: There is economical and political crisis.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: People cannot trust their currency right, and Bitcoin, in this sense, can save their lives because it protects you from devaluation, from hyperinflation.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: You don't need to have bank as your custodian, you can do a self-custody, and that's why Bitcoin is all the time highest when you compare it to the Libanon lira, and that's revolutionary.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: And also, I have read and I have read a forbes article one day and it was talking about this economist called george haddad and he's from lebanon, but he has lived in canada, so he really was not like seeing the impact.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: And when he came back to lebanon and he saw what is happening there, he he understood that only people who held Bitcoin can really understand how is unstable a currency and how you cannot trust it Right.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: So look, bitcoin can save lives, for sure.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So merged markets, and you mentioned to me before about nigeria and argentina as well yeah, same story.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of political instabilities, there is economic crisis, there is hyperinflation, devaluation of the currency.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: People need to use a bitcoin because the currency worth nothing.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Worth nothing.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: They're just absolutely losing their wealth.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So, to protect against all these crises that they're having, they need to have digital assets in place Bitcoin.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So they're using basically Bitcoin for their daily lives.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You mentioned 10 million, right by 2045?
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: .
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, according to Michael Saylor right by 2045?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: yeah, according to michael saylor.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool, when do you think?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I think most people are just like wow, that's incredible.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Right, if that actually happens, what?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: about a million.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: When do you think that'll be is anyone.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Has anyone spoken on that?
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: yeah, a lot of people wants to know this target and I just think it's gonna happen.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I't think when, of course, I don't know.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Otherwise I will be now in pension, just like living on my bitcoin and putting a lot of leverage right.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So it's a million dollar question, by the way itself.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: But look, I think institutional engagement is the next.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: If we are seeing that all these giants, bank giants, all these pension funds are going to include even like 1% of the AUMs in Bitcoin, additional assets, that's going to be a huge impact on the price.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Also, remember, it's all about supply and demand, right, and in Bitcoin, the supply is very clear.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: It's 21 million, so it's limited right, and when there's going to be a high demand coming from institution and the supply is fixed, of course the price is going to increase.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: So I just see the target of 1 million, but definitely in a few years.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So you've got like ethereum right why wouldn't?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Ethereum just take over bitcoin.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what's.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: What's to say that bitcoin is the coin and in you know, myspace used to be the social media platform, right, and then facebook came along and killed it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So what's to say?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: That Bitcoin won't just die?
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin is seen as the first, you know, revolution in crypto and obviously it has created more trust because, if you think when it came out, it came out in 2009, after the 2008 crisis and only after, as the crypto started to follow, but for different use cases.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So definitely, bitcoin is going to always be like on top because there is more trust.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: There is, you know, they're starting to use Bitcoin as a strategic reserve.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: They see as a competitor to gold.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Right now, they don't see Ethereum, solana, ripple there yet.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, they are very interesting cryptos.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Finally, they're not even used anymore for speculation.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: For instance, ethereum is used as a blockchain for smart contracts, which is again, in my opinion, the next revolution.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Solana is used for fast and cheap transactions.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Ripple is used for solving issues in cross-border payments.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: So they all have different cases, but of course, they're not as Bitcoin yet and they don't have this trust yet.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And, however, for example, we have seen approval from SEC about ETF in Ethereum.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It's very positive.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Right now, there have been more than 100 million inflows and investors are starting to understand that the next one they should get into Ethereum yet.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: But also Solana is getting there because 21 shares, vaneck, grayscale, bitwise they all have done right now an application to get approved as an ETF in Solana, and the next is going to be probably XRP, which is Ripple, and so you know there's place for both.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I just feel like investors are going to have an option, and I think investors love to have an option, and I always have recommended to diversify the portfolio, so I'm just happy for all these coins to fly I know somebody who had about 500k in their pension did this micro strategy had stuck it all in bitcoin.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, now like two million good for him yeah, but risky right.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: That's so Like, where does he get that confidence from to do that?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Or is it just like a blind confidence?
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I just feel like people are starting to understand the properties of Bitcoin versus gold, for instance.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: They don't see it's any more than speculation.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: They understand that they will need to use it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, lugano.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Lugano is in Switzerland.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: It's becoming Europe crypto most friendly city in the world and you can go to more than 100 shops to buy anything Bitcoin and guess what?
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Even to McDonald's, so you can buy your cheeseburger using a Bitcoin.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Let's think about Tesla.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: You can buy Tesla using Bitcoin and it's massive.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: This is where the confidence is coming from, because right now, governments, corporates, institutions adopting it and there is no way back what about?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: what about as a haven for crime and people using it to embezzle money?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: And did you get a lot of those questions at all?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: yes, so there was times that definitely there was a lot of, you know, bad reputation for crypto because it has been used as a money laundry.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: But right now it's not anymore the case because blockchain and chains can be checked by, for example, companies like chainlink, so they can basically see every transaction happening and it's very hard right now to escape.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And also, like in the past, it was also called like tax evasion and so on.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Right now, you need to pay taxes, you need to be compliant.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: It's starting to be like a real asset class, so it's very, very hard right now to use it for money laundry or for like tax evasion.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: If somebody's freaking out about the security around Bitcoin, right, they're like, okay, I'm going to buy some Bitcoin, but I'm really worried that someone's going to hack into it.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or they're going to steal it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: You hear about people stealing money from people's wallets.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you hear about people stealing money from people's wallets?
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, how secure is that and what should people do to protect their assets?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great question.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So the most common way to invest in crypto.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows that it's an exchange, so think about Binance, kraken, coinbase, and that's where people went to buy Bitcoin.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: So now what's the problem there?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: The problem is the following.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: The first it's hacking, right.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So, like somebody entering the exchange, they hack your account and they steal your money, right.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Then at this stage you can say but I'm going to do self-custody, Fine, do self-custody, but it's still a very complicated operation.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know some friends who lost Bitcoin.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: They don't remember passwords, they don't remember the accesses and so on.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And then another problem for an exchange is that you cannot diversify this asset class in a traditional portfolio, because your money, basically, are going out from your bank account.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: They're going to an exchange.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: An exchange is not sometimes even regulated.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So think about FTX.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Bank accounts are going to an exchange and exchange is not sometimes even regulated.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: So think about ftx.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Ftx bankrupt and people lost so much money.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So another alternative is to buy an etf today etf in us, or it's called exchange trade product in europe.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And why it's convenient?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: It's convenient because, first of all, it's easy.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: You, you buy it as an Apple stock.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Basically, you have a nice number.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Secondly, there is a custodian right.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: So when you're buying, basically, an ETF or an ATP, there is an exchange between authorized participants and Bitcoin is going like into a safe custody which is independent, which is institutional, regulated great.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And then if, by chance, the company who issued this etf or etp bankrupt, there is an independent trustee that has the legal duty to sell the asset class in the market and to refund all investors by cash.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So, as you can hear, buying tf today is the most secure way.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: It's like buying a stock you can put in your portfolio.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: You can keep it.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: The only difference from an exchange it's not trading 24 7, it's trading from, like the local market exchange listen thanks, thanks very much for giving us an overview of bitcoin, what you're experiencing, what people you're working with are experiencing, just kind of give us some education, really, and some insight into what's going on, because I've certainly learned a lot.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: This is a careers-based podcast as well um now you you have in the.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: You have as well a career coaching business.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I'm just interested.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: You know I've spent 16 years in recruiting into financial planning businesses and built a recruitment company, sold it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Now I'm working within a financial planning business.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Um, do you get approached a lot by people wanting to work in bitcoin, crypto, uh, altcoins, whatever are they in that space, in the digital asset world?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Is there a big interest in that from?
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: youngsters.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, there is interest.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: There is interest especially from young people and unfortunately they're struggling because obviously universities are not there yet to give like a super advanced digital asset course, so what's the best for them to do is to do some education on the side.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: But because most of them don't do it and they want like a fast way to an institutional crypto, they think, oh, it's just crypto, I just can get in easily from my education and traditional background.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: No, you need to learn stuff, you need to understand the technology.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: It's almost like engineering approach.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: So definitely you need to.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: You need, you need to invest in education and you need to network.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You need to understand that you need to join some crypto events, which are, by the way, very open and friendly.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: So behind cryptos, there is a great community of supporters, but you need to do the steps if you want to join a crypto company.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: It cannot be just just a wish.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: All right, okay, so one bit of advice.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Would you give somebody then, just the main, the one takeaway, if they're interested in getting into a career within crypto.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just educate yourself.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: For instance, when I joined wealth management, I knew that I had to be an expert in markets.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: So every morning I was waking up, I was reading Financial Times, new York Times and I was trying to understand what is going in the market, because I need to understand how to advise an investor right.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: So if you want to join crypto, you need to be able to talk about crypto, you need to be able to understand the technology behind how the market is moving.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: So definitely learn, educate yourself, take extra time, network with people and you're going to get there.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Fantastic, and what have you been up to in the UAE, then over in Dubai?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so very interesting.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: There have been a few conferences, there is Finance Week going on and, yeah, so many interesting investors, so many interesting financial players are here and it's it's interesting to see what is happening because when I meet them, I understand what asset class they interested the most, what is driving them, and that's a great approach, then, to tailor made you know your meetings in the future and hopefully let them get interested in digital assets as well.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Formula One was not bad.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Not bad.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: It's always like a great occasion to be in the city.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Did you get to watch any of the Formula One?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, I watched it and I've been only seeing it in Monte Carlo.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's very different.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Monte Carlo, it's smaller, it's a bit more prestigious, a bit like niche people Abu Dhab.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Carlo, it's smaller.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Um, it's a bit more prestigious, a bit like niche people.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Abu dhabi it's more big.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: But we know that in emirates like to make things big, so it was a bit of, you know, flashy and show style.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: But why not like every?
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: You need to adapt to every culture, right?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: what do you think of dubai then?
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Would you, would you move here?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Is it something you know?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: We I I've come from the uk I've come to Dubai.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: We are an international financial planning business Hoxton Wealth, that's who I now work for and we recruit internationally.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, does Dubai interest you?
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of people think about Dubai, don't they, tax free being one of the big attractions.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: But spending time here now is it somewhere, somewhere you think, oh, do you know what?
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I could live here, I could base myself here.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I love Dubai.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It's a beautiful, beautiful city, beautiful people, a lot of technology advancement, and I've been thinking several times to move to Dubai.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I just feel like in life you need to take a challenge and become an expert in something, and I have chosen uh, you know, to open doors about crypto in italy and switzerland because I have been very, you know, in a friendly approach.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I have done a lot of movements to get there and I just want to finish my mission.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And why not next, dubai?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: love it listen.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Plan Life podcast.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Teaching me about crypto, Bitcoin, and I better go out and get some really, because it's going to be 10 million.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be left behind.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, buy some and remember cost dollar average small purchase every month 4% and you're going to be happy Happy days.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Chase every month four percent and you're gonna be happy happy days.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, cheers.