Latest / Something Extra / Empowering Critical Infrastructure Through Digital Innovation w/ Matt Nicolls

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Empowering Critical Infrastructure Through Digital Innovation w/ Matt Nicolls · Something Extra

0:02
Lisa Nichols: Chromosomes.
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Lisa Nichols: Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions
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Lisa Nichols: that tell us who we are at birth.
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Lisa Nichols: My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the
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Lisa Nichols: CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ali.
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Lisa Nichols: meets.
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Lisa Nichols: Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have
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Lisa Nichols: witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the
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Lisa Nichols: While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that
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1:00
Lisa Nichols: Join me as I explore the something extra in leaders from all walks of
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Lisa Nichols: life and discover how that difference in each of them has made a difference
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Lisa Nichols: listen and leave us a five star rating.
1:20
Lisa Nichols: I am thrilled to have Matt Nicolls on the show today.
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Lisa Nichols: Matt is the chief digital innovation officer at Technology Partners.
1:27
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt Nicolls, welcome to the Something Extra podcast.
1:32
Lisa Nichols: I have been looking so forward to this time with you, and I cannot
1:36
Lisa Nichols: wait to introduce our listeners to you.
1:39
Lisa Nichols: Many of them probably know you, but maybe there's one or two that don't.
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Lisa Nichols: And, I'm just excited to share your journey and share your story
1:47
Lisa Nichols: with our listeners.
1:49
Matt Nicolls: Well, it's a pleasure to be here for sure.
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Matt Nicolls: I'm very excited to be a part of it.
1:53
Matt Nicolls: And, why did it take so long?
1:55
Lisa Nichols: I don't know.
1:56
Lisa Nichols: I don't know, but we're making it happen now.
2:00
Matt Nicolls: We're making it happen.
2:01
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
2:01
Matt Nicolls: I know you you've mentioned it to me over the years and just I
2:04
Matt Nicolls: don't know.
2:05
Lisa Nichols: I have.
2:05
Lisa Nichols: I've mentioned it to you many times.
2:07
Lisa Nichols: I was not gonna say that, but, yes.
2:10
Lisa Nichols: I said you need to come on to the podcast.
2:12
Lisa Nichols: So Yeah.
2:12
Matt Nicolls: Well, I'm glad we're making it happen.
2:14
Matt Nicolls: This is this is great.
2:15
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
2:17
Lisa Nichols: I feel like the first thing that I need to clear up for our
2:20
Lisa Nichols: listeners, Matt
2:21
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
2:22
Lisa Nichols: Know what I'm gonna say?
2:24
Matt Nicolls: Last name?
2:25
Lisa Nichols: Matt
2:27
Lisa Nichols: yes.
2:27
Lisa Nichols: Matt's last name is n I c o l l s.
2:31
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
2:31
Lisa Nichols: So we are not related.
2:33
Lisa Nichols: In fact, we've we've gotten some funny looks in the past, haven't we?
2:37
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
2:38
Lisa Nichols: Matt, when we've been in meetings with each other and they're like, wait a
2:41
Lisa Nichols: minute.
2:41
Lisa Nichols: Is that Lisa's husband?
2:43
Lisa Nichols: Or
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Matt Nicolls: What kind of nepotism is going on here?
2:46
Lisa Nichols: Right?
2:46
Lisa Nichols: Nepotism.
2:47
Lisa Nichols: Right.
2:48
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
2:49
Lisa Nichols: I
2:49
Matt Nicolls: always say you guys spell your name the wrong way, right, with the h
2:52
Matt Nicolls: in it?
2:53
Matt Nicolls: So
2:53
Lisa Nichols: You have told me that before.
2:55
Lisa Nichols: You have told me that before too.
2:57
Lisa Nichols: But, you know, I have often said this, Matt, and I mean it.
3:01
Lisa Nichols: I would claim you as my little brother any day of the week.
3:05
Lisa Nichols: So there you go.
3:07
Lisa Nichols: So
3:07
Matt Nicolls: Right back at you.
3:08
Matt Nicolls: We've been doing this together a long time.
3:10
Lisa Nichols: Twenty seven years, man.
3:12
Matt Nicolls: Wow.
3:13
Lisa Nichols: Twenty seven years, we have known each other.
3:15
Lisa Nichols: It's really crazy.
3:17
Lisa Nichols: You started working for TPE Technology Partners in nineteen ninety eight
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Lisa Nichols: as a consultant.
3:23
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
3:24
Lisa Nichols: So, really, your you and your precious family, Cheryl
3:28
Lisa Nichols: and Ellen and Lauren, you guys are family to us.
3:31
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
3:31
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
3:33
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
3:34
Lisa Nichols: Makes it a lot of fun, doesn't it?
3:36
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
3:36
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
3:38
Lisa Nichols: Well, we've got a lot to talk about today.
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Lisa Nichols: I mean, scores and scores and scores of questions that I have for you.
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Lisa Nichols: But here's where I'd love to start.
3:47
Lisa Nichols: You started your college journey pursuing a fine arts degree.
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Lisa Nichols: Matt, where did that love for art stem from?
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Matt Nicolls: You know, I I grew up in a family of engineers and artists, and,
4:02
Matt Nicolls: I never really made that connection until I started thinking about and preparing for
4:06
Matt Nicolls: being on this podcast.
4:07
Matt Nicolls: But a family of musicians.
4:09
Matt Nicolls: My mom was an oil painter.
4:10
Matt Nicolls: My dad was an engineer.
4:12
Matt Nicolls: My brother's an engineer, as you know.
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Matt Nicolls: And, I've just always loved art.
4:17
Matt Nicolls: I spent a lot of time doodling in class, connected a lot with my
4:21
Matt Nicolls: art teachers.
4:22
Matt Nicolls: Didn't do very well in school,
4:26
Matt Nicolls: but that all came together later.
4:28
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
4:30
Matt Nicolls: And I really wanted to become a Disney animator.
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Matt Nicolls: This is back in the days when they used to hand draw, you know,
4:35
Matt Nicolls: all the cells and all that.
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Matt Nicolls: And
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Matt Nicolls: college was not a thing that we talked about in my family.
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Matt Nicolls: You know, we didn't really have much in the way of resources.
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Matt Nicolls: Nobody in my family went to college.
4:46
Matt Nicolls: And so, I kinda muddled my way through that to see if I could
4:50
Matt Nicolls: make something happen because I knew the path to get to Disney was gonna
4:54
Matt Nicolls: be going through a good art school.
4:56
Matt Nicolls: And, so I moved away for a while, moved up to Indianapolis to try
5:00
Matt Nicolls: to go go to school up there because I had heard that Disney was
5:02
Matt Nicolls: drafting artists, from IU
5:07
Matt Nicolls: and, took some,
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Matt Nicolls: courses in three d animation, very early, early rudimentary
5:13
Matt Nicolls: stuff before it was even close to mainstream.
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Matt Nicolls: Did a lot of fine arts classes, figurative classes, drawing naked people
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Matt Nicolls: a lot, which is an interesting interesting awkward thing for a
5:24
Matt Nicolls: nineteen year old.
5:25
Matt Nicolls: Right?
5:25
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
5:26
Lisa Nichols: And
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Matt Nicolls: I worked as a caricature artist at the same time.
5:28
Matt Nicolls: So that was, that was my path.
5:31
Lisa Nichols: And you still do you still doodle today?
5:34
Matt Nicolls: In meetings.
5:35
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
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Matt Nicolls: It's kinda keep my right right side of my brain occupied so I can
5:39
Matt Nicolls: pay attention, with the left left side of my brain.
5:42
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
5:42
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
5:43
Lisa Nichols: Well, well, we're not gonna talk about this today, but I will say for
5:46
Lisa Nichols: our listeners, oh my goodness.
5:49
Lisa Nichols: I've been in so many meetings.
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Lisa Nichols: Can't even count how many meetings I've been in with Matt.
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Lisa Nichols: And very quickly, if there is a whiteboard in the room, Matt
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Lisa Nichols: will get up and start, you know, drawing the customer
6:02
Lisa Nichols: journey.
6:02
Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's it's really phenomenal.
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Lisa Nichols: And I think our clients always appreciate that, Matt, because
6:09
Lisa Nichols: you can visually show them kinda where we're going
6:13
Lisa Nichols: with a solution or or whatnot.
6:16
Lisa Nichols: So
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Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
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Matt Nicolls: The whiteboard is is kind of the epicenter of collaboration for me, and
6:22
Matt Nicolls: it's something that brings everybody together because the visual, it's it's something that
6:26
Matt Nicolls: you can communicate information at a glance.
6:29
Matt Nicolls: Right?
6:29
Matt Nicolls: Not not having to process words, read narrative,
6:34
Matt Nicolls: look at a spreadsheet.
6:35
Matt Nicolls: Right?
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Matt Nicolls: If you can visualize it, people can understand it instantly.
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Matt Nicolls: And so it's been a critical tool.
6:42
Matt Nicolls: Our walls are covered with whiteboards.
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Matt Nicolls: I've got the you remember the sixty four pack crayons when you were a
6:47
Matt Nicolls: kid that had the sharpened rubber?
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Matt Nicolls: I've got I've got that equivalent of whiteboard markers, so we've got every color
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Matt Nicolls: you can imagine.
6:54
Lisa Nichols: You do indeed.
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Lisa Nichols: Matt, in their offices has glass
6:59
Lisa Nichols: everywhere, and everywhere you look, there's wireframes and
7:03
Lisa Nichols: all sorts of things, written on the glass.
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Lisa Nichols: Well, that passion for art, Matt, evolved into
7:10
Lisa Nichols: a passion for software and technology into what you're doing today,
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Lisa Nichols: which we're gonna spend the majority of our time on today, and I'm excited
7:18
Lisa Nichols: to share that with our listeners.
7:20
Lisa Nichols: But there was a special person who had a lot to do
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Lisa Nichols: with fueling this passion for you and technology.
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Lisa Nichols: Can you tell our listeners that story?
7:30
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
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Matt Nicolls: I'd say definitely.
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Matt Nicolls: This is, this man nobody's ever heard of before,
7:36
Matt Nicolls: not really anything noteworthy and no headlines.
7:39
Matt Nicolls: But he grew up, and, you know, I've heard a lot of his
7:43
Matt Nicolls: stories.
7:44
Matt Nicolls: And so I I would say his childhood sounds almost like Norman
7:48
Matt Nicolls: Rockwell,
7:50
Matt Nicolls: in the in the forties and fifties.
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Matt Nicolls: Didn't have any money, kinda made the best with what he what he had.
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Matt Nicolls: He told stories about going down to the down to the river banks and
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Matt Nicolls: hanging out in the hobo camps, and I'm, like, thinking about what they'd be
8:03
Matt Nicolls: like today.
8:04
Matt Nicolls: And we certainly wouldn't want, you know, our kids hanging out in,
8:08
Matt Nicolls: in the homeless parts of town by themselves as as, you know, as a
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Matt Nicolls: child.
8:12
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
8:13
Matt Nicolls: And the relationships he formed with those those guys and that they were different
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Matt Nicolls: different breed of people, but he never felt, you know, a a danger and
8:20
Matt Nicolls: and all that sort of stuff.
8:21
Matt Nicolls: And,
8:23
Matt Nicolls: then how he kinda grew up and didn't really have a path forward through
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Matt Nicolls: college or anything like that, so he joined the military and didn't really know
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Matt Nicolls: if he had a what his purpose in life was gonna be.
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Matt Nicolls: He didn't feel particularly gifted in any way and in any particular calling.
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Matt Nicolls: But, during going through the onboarding into the military, he was
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Matt Nicolls: he was picked out, by some some of the leadership,
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Matt Nicolls: and he and a couple other people were pulled into,
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Matt Nicolls: a group that they ultimately deployed into, like, code cracking
8:54
Matt Nicolls: and and ciphers and things of that nature.
8:56
Matt Nicolls: So I think they recognized a different kind of intelligence in him, and that
8:59
Matt Nicolls: was really cool.
9:01
Matt Nicolls: And so he told me these stories about being stationed in Eritrea,
9:05
Matt Nicolls: which is a country next to Ethiopia in Africa.
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Matt Nicolls: And they would go to the top of this mountain in this in this
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Matt Nicolls: room with these these devices.
9:13
Matt Nicolls: I don't know if they were the Enigma machines or something similar and intercept
9:17
Matt Nicolls: messages being sent to Mussolini who was stationed in Ethiopia.
9:22
Matt Nicolls: And all the stories he had about being down there and meeting the people
9:25
Matt Nicolls: and and all that, he told a story of, you know, the information that
9:28
Matt Nicolls: he was getting was compartmentalized so that he didn't know exactly what it was.
9:33
Matt Nicolls: But somebody did and knew when he had to take it down to the
9:35
Matt Nicolls: base down to the other side of the mountain, and he'd get it in
9:38
Matt Nicolls: a jeep.
9:38
Matt Nicolls: It the information would be in a in a metal briefcase handcuffed to his
9:42
Matt Nicolls: wrist, and a couple of, you know, big burly military guys, right, armed with
9:46
Matt Nicolls: armed to the teeth would drive him down the mountain.
9:49
Matt Nicolls: And there were times where those guys had hopped out of the jeep and
9:51
Matt Nicolls: mow some people down with machine guns to get him to where he needed
9:54
Matt Nicolls: to go.
9:55
Lisa Nichols: My goodness.
9:55
Matt Nicolls: Like, pretty intense stuff.
9:57
Matt Nicolls: And, you know, so he he had that whole phase of his life, came
10:01
Matt Nicolls: back, got into engineering and controls, kind of became his
10:05
Matt Nicolls: own self taught electrical engineer, and, from there
10:09
Matt Nicolls: became a got into software development.
10:11
Matt Nicolls: So
10:13
Matt Nicolls: he started coding on these you know, he's telling me what these machines
10:17
Matt Nicolls: are like.
10:18
Matt Nicolls: They're huge.
10:20
Matt Nicolls: They've got little tiny screens, four inch screens.
10:22
Matt Nicolls: Right?
10:22
Matt Nicolls: These big clunky keyboards, and he'd code on these things.
10:25
Matt Nicolls: And he'd said start start the software compiling.
10:28
Matt Nicolls: I get up and go make a pot of coffee and come back.
10:30
Matt Nicolls: Like, that's how slow they were.
10:32
Matt Nicolls: Ultimately, wound up building software that did, like,
10:37
Matt Nicolls: plan giving calculations.
10:39
Matt Nicolls: So they needed all these actuarial calculations to to predict when people would die
10:43
Matt Nicolls: and all that sort of stuff.
10:45
Matt Nicolls: And, worked closely with the IRS to try to figure those things out,
10:49
Matt Nicolls: and, ultimately, his software resulted in the IRS
10:53
Matt Nicolls: having to republish all their manuals.
10:55
Matt Nicolls: He he found this discrepancy and reached out to him, and they tried to
10:58
Matt Nicolls: reconcile it, couldn't figure out.
10:59
Matt Nicolls: And, ultimately, they're like, wow.
11:00
Matt Nicolls: Your software is getting it right, and our calculations are wrong, so they had
11:04
Matt Nicolls: to republish their manuals.
11:06
Matt Nicolls: I'm like, man, like, just did a lot of really interesting things in his
11:10
Matt Nicolls: life, comes back,
11:12
Matt Nicolls: gets involved in doing missions because he wants to go back to Africa where
11:15
Matt Nicolls: he felt a real connection with the people down there and started doing leading
11:19
Matt Nicolls: mission trips for his church down in Africa and did that all the way
11:23
Matt Nicolls: up until up until his eighties.
11:25
Matt Nicolls: In fact,
11:27
Matt Nicolls: he would go to these these remote villages,
11:30
Matt Nicolls: where you'd have to canoe and then get out and carry your canoe and
11:33
Matt Nicolls: then canoe some more and, like, really way off the beaten path.
11:37
Matt Nicolls: Right?
11:38
Matt Nicolls: And develop relationships with these families, and he would keep going back there and
11:43
Matt Nicolls: relationships over time.
11:44
Matt Nicolls: And one of my favorite stories he tells is
11:48
Matt Nicolls: that there's this, baby that was born while he was there, and the
11:52
Matt Nicolls: family decided to name the baby Jim Nichols.
11:56
Matt Nicolls: But I think it's funny to think that there's a Jim Nichols running around
11:59
Matt Nicolls: in a in an area of Africa that doesn't speak English.
12:02
Lisa Nichols: Right.
12:03
Lisa Nichols: So Right.
12:04
Matt Nicolls: Refer to him as Jim Nichols.
12:05
Matt Nicolls: So
12:06
Lisa Nichols: And that's n I c o l l s.
12:08
Lisa Nichols: Right.
12:09
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
12:09
Matt Nicolls: That's my dad.
12:10
Lisa Nichols: That's your dad.
12:11
Lisa Nichols: Such an amazing story.
12:13
Lisa Nichols: I love it so much.
12:14
Lisa Nichols: I do.
12:15
Lisa Nichols: I love it so much.
12:16
Lisa Nichols: And he really you know, along with your brother, Michael, but,
12:20
Lisa Nichols: really Oh, yeah.
12:22
Lisa Nichols: Fueled that passion for technology.
12:24
Lisa Nichols: And, let let me ask you this.
12:26
Lisa Nichols: So so, Matt, you started working with Technology Partners in nineteen ninety eight
12:30
Lisa Nichols: as a consultant.
12:32
Lisa Nichols: Technology Partners is really known in the industry for their transparency,
12:38
Lisa Nichols: for paying our employees really well.
12:40
Lisa Nichols: How did this resonate with you when you became a consultant ninety
12:45
Lisa Nichols: nineteen ninety eight?
12:46
Lisa Nichols: How was it different from what other people were doing and experiencing?
12:50
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
12:51
Matt Nicolls: Well, my brother, Michael, as you mentioned, is the reason I'm a software developer
12:54
Matt Nicolls: now.
12:54
Matt Nicolls: My dad was an inspiration.
12:56
Matt Nicolls: I was pursuing art.
12:57
Matt Nicolls: My dad told me I was probably gonna be a starving artist, so get
13:00
Matt Nicolls: comfortable with that lifestyle in a nice way.
13:03
Matt Nicolls: And then my brother offered me a job.
13:05
Matt Nicolls: And, so I moved back from Indianapolis,
13:09
Matt Nicolls: learned what software development even really was, and, and it it went
13:13
Matt Nicolls: off from there.
13:14
Matt Nicolls: The next influence my brother had on me was he started
13:19
Matt Nicolls: at Technology Partners First.
13:20
Matt Nicolls: And at the time, I was consulting through another firm, and and he kinda
13:24
Matt Nicolls: shared with me the model, this low transparent margin, which would allow
13:28
Matt Nicolls: me to make significantly more money,
13:32
Matt Nicolls: allow the clients of Technology Partners to pay less money.
13:35
Matt Nicolls: And it just was a really open, transparent, great way of doing business
13:40
Matt Nicolls: that really attracted me.
13:43
Matt Nicolls: So I applied, and you guys, rejected me and said you can't come here
13:46
Matt Nicolls: for us because
13:47
Lisa Nichols: you believe that we
13:49
Matt Nicolls: You reject work.
13:50
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
13:51
Matt Nicolls: Well, it was it was on it was on good merit.
13:53
Matt Nicolls: Right?
13:53
Matt Nicolls: It was like you work for a client of ours, and
13:55
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
13:56
Lisa Nichols: You
13:56
Matt Nicolls: can't poach people from our clients.
13:57
Matt Nicolls: And so, eventually, I left that client.
13:59
Matt Nicolls: I went and worked for another company for six months or a year, I
14:02
Matt Nicolls: can't remember, and reapplied.
14:04
Matt Nicolls: It's hired me.
14:04
Matt Nicolls: And And
14:05
Lisa Nichols: then we hired him.
14:06
Matt Nicolls: And I've I've kinda been working with you guys in one way or another
14:08
Matt Nicolls: ever since.
14:09
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
14:10
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
14:10
Lisa Nichols: And it has been it has been such a blessing.
14:13
Lisa Nichols: And just, we've seen a lot of change, and we've seen a lot of
14:17
Lisa Nichols: lot of change.
14:18
Lisa Nichols: But, Matt, some things have not changed.
14:21
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
14:22
Lisa Nichols: Our model has stayed the same.
14:24
Lisa Nichols: We will still reject you
14:26
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
14:27
Lisa Nichols: If you try to apply and you're at a client.
14:29
Lisa Nichols: So, those principles really have remained true,
14:35
Lisa Nichols: with how we operate as a company.
14:37
Lisa Nichols: But, you know, we decided when we decided to add the solutions to our
14:41
Lisa Nichols: portfolio of services about fifteen years ago, Matt.
14:45
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
14:47
Lisa Nichols: We looked at each other.
14:48
Lisa Nichols: Greg and I looked at each other, and we basically cherry picked you.
14:52
Lisa Nichols: Out of all the consultants that we had worked with, we said, who
14:57
Lisa Nichols: is the person that could really help us build this?
15:00
Lisa Nichols: And you truly were one of the smartest consultants we had
15:04
Lisa Nichols: ever worked with.
15:06
Matt Nicolls: That.
15:06
Lisa Nichols: Well, no.
15:07
Lisa Nichols: It's true.
15:09
Lisa Nichols: It is true.
15:10
Lisa Nichols: You're I think you're you're probably a chip off the old block with your
15:14
Lisa Nichols: dad because what our listeners may not know is that Matt is part
15:18
Lisa Nichols: of the Mensa society.
15:20
Lisa Nichols: So Matt, is incredibly intelligent, really,
15:24
Lisa Nichols: like I said, one of the smartest that we had worked with.
15:28
Lisa Nichols: But we also knew that you would bring passion,
15:33
Lisa Nichols: creativity, and professionalism to the role, Matt.
15:36
Lisa Nichols: And, so that is when we talk to you, and
15:41
Lisa Nichols: and the rest is history as they say.
15:43
Lisa Nichols: But, today, you are the practice director of custom software solutions for
15:47
Lisa Nichols: the company.
15:48
Lisa Nichols: And, truly, I think, we have
15:53
Lisa Nichols: one of the most incredible team of human beings out there.
15:56
Lisa Nichols: I tell people all the time, I would
16:00
Lisa Nichols: put our team up against anyone in the industry.
16:04
Matt Nicolls: Hundred percent.
16:05
Lisa Nichols: Built an amazing, amazing team of technologists.
16:10
Lisa Nichols: Your team has been really blessed.
16:11
Lisa Nichols: You've worked with billion dollar enterprises designing, building custom solutions
16:16
Lisa Nichols: that power the backbone of operations.
16:19
Lisa Nichols: Iconic brands.
16:20
Lisa Nichols: Really iconic brands, Matt.
16:22
Lisa Nichols: From Mastercard to Panera Bread to,
16:27
Lisa Nichols: you know, oil pipelines and power grids.
16:29
Lisa Nichols: I mean, truly, you guys have worked with some of the best teams out
16:34
Lisa Nichols: there.
16:34
Lisa Nichols: It has been really a blessing.
16:37
Lisa Nichols: But I wanna get into more about what your team is doing today, and
16:41
Lisa Nichols: so I've got lots of questions for you.
16:46
Lisa Nichols: Really, you know, everything in IT if you're in IT,
16:51
Lisa Nichols: there's one thing we can all agree on.
16:54
Lisa Nichols: The change is incredible.
16:57
Lisa Nichols: The rapid pace by which technology
17:01
Lisa Nichols: is is changing.
17:02
Lisa Nichols: Lightspeed.
17:03
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
17:04
Lisa Nichols: AI, cybersecurity, infrastructure, modernization.
17:08
Lisa Nichols: So let me ask you this.
17:10
Lisa Nichols: What are you scrambling to get ahead of right now?
17:13
Matt Nicolls: You're a hundred percent right about constant change.
17:16
Matt Nicolls: If you ever have,
17:18
Matt Nicolls: a vision in your mind as a as a young professional that in IT,
17:22
Matt Nicolls: you're gonna get to a point to where you can just be settled and
17:25
Matt Nicolls: be in a leadership position and and coast, that will never happen.
17:29
Matt Nicolls: I remember when my dad told me, I brought him some new technology,
17:33
Matt Nicolls: and, he said, you know, I'm just kinda tired of learning new things.
17:37
Matt Nicolls: And I'm like, well, you're done then.
17:39
Matt Nicolls: You're done, bro.
17:40
Lisa Nichols: Right.
17:41
Matt Nicolls: So you you you always have to be ready ready for that change.
17:45
Matt Nicolls: And, you know, what's what I'm really excited about, what I'm really focused on
17:49
Matt Nicolls: the big change ahead of us, you know, obviously, AI is top of the
17:52
Matt Nicolls: heap.
17:53
Matt Nicolls: Everybody's figuring out how they can, leverage AI the best in a in a
17:57
Matt Nicolls: in a responsible way, right, a safe way, secure way,
18:01
Matt Nicolls: but really harness that power.
18:03
Matt Nicolls: I remember the first time I used, GPT when it came out,
18:08
Matt Nicolls: and I'm my first thought was, this is gonna change the world
18:12
Matt Nicolls: more than the Internet.
18:14
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
18:15
Matt Nicolls: Things are gonna be completely different.
18:17
Matt Nicolls: And, but what a lot of people aren't thinking about is the
18:21
Matt Nicolls: infrastructure that it's gonna take to support the demand for AI.
18:24
Matt Nicolls: The compute needs for AI is, very, very expensive,
18:29
Matt Nicolls: and the the demand is going through the roof.
18:32
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
18:32
Matt Nicolls: So when you think about the data centers that we're gonna have to build,
18:36
Matt Nicolls: to support the demand in our country alone, we're gonna have to double
18:40
Matt Nicolls: in the next four, four and a half years, double that, which is gonna
18:44
Matt Nicolls: be hundreds and hundreds of data centers, which means a lot of construction
18:48
Matt Nicolls: and, cooling.
18:49
Matt Nicolls: How are we gonna cool the data centers?
18:51
Matt Nicolls: We gotta get water there.
18:52
Matt Nicolls: We gotta get power there.
18:54
Matt Nicolls: We have to manufacture chips.
18:56
Matt Nicolls: There's a a seven a seven trillion dollar investment in this level
19:00
Matt Nicolls: of infrastructure.
19:02
Matt Nicolls: Trillion with a t.
19:05
Matt Nicolls: Now we need the the companies to to be able to step up and
19:07
Matt Nicolls: do that.
19:08
Matt Nicolls: We need those infrastructure companies to be able to step up and do that.
19:11
Matt Nicolls: And so I wanna take everything that I've learned and everything that my team's
19:15
Matt Nicolls: done over the years.
19:17
Matt Nicolls: And by the way, going back to your comment earlier about good teams Yeah.
19:20
Matt Nicolls: If I had a hundred dollars, I would bet all one hundred dollars on
19:23
Matt Nicolls: my team because they're they're they're so good.
19:26
Matt Nicolls: They're
19:26
Lisa Nichols: so good.
19:26
Matt Nicolls: So proud of them.
19:27
Lisa Nichols: Best of the best.
19:29
Matt Nicolls: But I wanna take everything we've learned.
19:31
Matt Nicolls: How can we how can we use digital innovation to support
19:35
Matt Nicolls: those infrastructure efforts that are gonna support the new critical
19:39
Matt Nicolls: infrastructure?
19:40
Matt Nicolls: The new critical infrastructure is AI in those data centers.
19:44
Matt Nicolls: Because if those go down,
19:47
Matt Nicolls: every business in our country will, in one way or another, be
19:49
Lisa Nichols: It's gonna be affected.
19:50
Matt Nicolls: That's gonna be affected.
19:52
Matt Nicolls: Right?
19:52
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
19:53
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
19:54
Matt Nicolls: So if you think about the the critical infrastructure, that's gonna support
19:58
Matt Nicolls: the critical infrastructure, that's where our focus is right now.
20:02
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
20:02
Lisa Nichols: And I've got a lot more questions around that, and I'm excited to talk
20:06
Lisa Nichols: about it more.
20:08
Lisa Nichols: Matt, you have said that nothing compares to the moment we're entering into right
20:12
Lisa Nichols: now.
20:12
Lisa Nichols: What do you mean by that?
20:14
Matt Nicolls: A hundred percent.
20:15
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
20:15
Matt Nicolls: I mean, if you think about the technology arc that's happened since
20:20
Matt Nicolls: the creation of the wheel.
20:21
Matt Nicolls: Right?
20:21
Matt Nicolls: Wheel fast forward to the Internet, like,
20:25
Matt Nicolls: long time.
20:28
Matt Nicolls: The the arc between those two bits of technology, I think,
20:32
Matt Nicolls: may be less than the arc that we're about to experience in the very
20:35
Matt Nicolls: near future.
20:37
Matt Nicolls: Because if you think about AI,
20:41
Matt Nicolls: include robotics, of course Yes.
20:43
Matt Nicolls: And then quantum computing, you know, and nanobots, like, you
20:47
Matt Nicolls: marry those things together with with just some of the just some of the
20:51
Matt Nicolls: things that we've heard about quantum computing just in the last few weeks and
20:55
Matt Nicolls: month about the the computational power and speed,
20:59
Matt Nicolls: it's going to drastically change the world in ways that I think that we
21:03
Matt Nicolls: can't even really comprehend right now.
21:05
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
21:07
Matt Nicolls: I'm really excited to be alive in this time, and be a part of
21:11
Matt Nicolls: that.
21:11
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
21:12
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
21:13
Lisa Nichols: I know our good friend Pete Hogan at Campano.
21:15
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
21:17
Lisa Nichols: He loves quantum computing and loves talking about that.
21:20
Lisa Nichols: Matt, you and, you and Pete should have lunch and talk about,
21:25
Lisa Nichols: all things quantum computing.
21:27
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, I mean, we're hearing that CEOs and boards are looking directly to
21:31
Lisa Nichols: their CIOs to have the answers for AI.
21:35
Lisa Nichols: The pressure is to move fast.
21:37
Lisa Nichols: That's a real pressure, but there is also a fear too.
21:41
Lisa Nichols: Because if you move too quickly, you risk making the wrong bet.
21:45
Lisa Nichols: You go too slow, and you're reminded that your predecessor's only a few interviews
21:49
Lisa Nichols: away.
21:50
Lisa Nichols: What are you seeing?
21:54
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
21:54
Matt Nicolls: You know, going back to what we talked about before with this relentless
21:58
Matt Nicolls: need for education and and and and learning
22:03
Matt Nicolls: to stay ahead of the curve.
22:05
Matt Nicolls: The CIOs are not that's nothing new to them.
22:07
Matt Nicolls: You know?
22:07
Matt Nicolls: In order to be to where where they are now, they're used to that.
22:11
Matt Nicolls: Right?
22:11
Matt Nicolls: So
22:11
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
22:12
Matt Nicolls: I would say just back to the basics, you know,
22:17
Matt Nicolls: AI and and quantum computing, both of those have this
22:23
Matt Nicolls: nonlinear process to them.
22:25
Matt Nicolls: Right?
22:25
Matt Nicolls: It's not it's not like a progression of old technology we've seen before.
22:29
Matt Nicolls: This is this is new and completely different.
22:31
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
22:31
Matt Nicolls: And sometimes magic.
22:33
Matt Nicolls: And so, I would say to any any CIO, start
22:38
Matt Nicolls: with education, but not just yourself.
22:40
Matt Nicolls: Educate those around you.
22:41
Matt Nicolls: Educate your executive leadership team.
22:44
Matt Nicolls: Educate your board so that they understand,
22:48
Matt Nicolls: AI.
22:50
Matt Nicolls: I mean, we we'll do these AI workshops with
22:54
Matt Nicolls: leadership teams, and it's literally sitting down and,
22:59
Matt Nicolls: building a building an AI.
23:00
Matt Nicolls: Right?
23:01
Matt Nicolls: Building a custom agent.
23:03
Matt Nicolls: Right?
23:03
Matt Nicolls: And and helping them get their hands on it, really understand what's possible.
23:08
Matt Nicolls: And it changes the the tone from what are you gonna do, CIO,
23:12
Matt Nicolls: to what can we do together?
23:15
Matt Nicolls: Absolutely.
23:16
Matt Nicolls: People are collaborating and they're thinking about it and, how it
23:20
Matt Nicolls: can they're thinking about how it can apply to their their vertical within
23:24
Matt Nicolls: their organization.
23:25
Matt Nicolls: And that's that's exciting.
23:27
Matt Nicolls: But, yeah, CIOs are faced with this whole, ready, fire, aim.
23:31
Matt Nicolls: Right?
23:31
Matt Nicolls: Everybody has expectations, and how are we leveraging AI, and how can we maximize
23:35
Matt Nicolls: this potential to for competitive edge or to streamline
23:39
Matt Nicolls: our operations or whatever.
23:41
Matt Nicolls: And they do.
23:42
Matt Nicolls: They have to take measured steps there, be very pragmatic.
23:46
Matt Nicolls: Otherwise, they find themselves in a dish down the road.
23:49
Lisa Nichols: Right.
23:50
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
23:50
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
23:51
Lisa Nichols: I I love what you said,
23:54
Lisa Nichols: Matt,
23:55
Lisa Nichols: that it's really, you know, empowering your people.
23:59
Lisa Nichols: I mean, literally, AI is gonna change the future of work.
24:03
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
24:03
Lisa Nichols: And that is whether you are a contracts person, whether you're in HR,
24:07
Lisa Nichols: whether you're in procurement.
24:09
Lisa Nichols: It is going to change.
24:10
Lisa Nichols: So I believe what you said, it's like, how can we do this
24:14
Lisa Nichols: together?
24:15
Lisa Nichols: How can we do this together?
24:17
Lisa Nichols: And, looking for those opportunities in the business to help your
24:21
Lisa Nichols: people do their job more efficiently.
24:24
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
24:25
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
24:26
Lisa Nichols: I tell you,
24:28
Lisa Nichols: I heard a speaker from MIT recently, and I absolutely
24:33
Lisa Nichols: love this quote.
24:34
Lisa Nichols: And I've hung on to it, Matt,
24:36
Lisa Nichols: that he's talking about AI.
24:38
Lisa Nichols: And he said, you know, AI is not gonna replace the human being.
24:43
Lisa Nichols: You're gonna continue to need humans, but he said somebody who is
24:47
Lisa Nichols: really good at AI, a human being that's good at AI,
24:51
Lisa Nichols: may replace the human being who does not know AI.
24:55
Matt Nicolls: Hundred percent.
24:56
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
24:57
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
24:58
Lisa Nichols: That was such a powerful quote.
25:00
Matt Nicolls: I don't know I don't know if the first part of that is true,
25:04
Matt Nicolls: that getting back to we we're not even fully able to comprehend what what
25:08
Matt Nicolls: the possibilities are yet or how far it can go.
25:11
Matt Nicolls: So I don't know.
25:12
Matt Nicolls: Maybe someday it it can replace humans.
25:14
Matt Nicolls: We'll see.
25:15
Matt Nicolls: But right now, humans are the orchestrators of the AI, especially when
25:19
Matt Nicolls: you're talking about GenAI and at the desktop level.
25:22
Matt Nicolls: We've all gotten emails before that we read them, and we're like, oh, that
25:25
Matt Nicolls: was generated.
25:26
Matt Nicolls: That was a that's a Claude email, or that's a Gmail.
25:29
Matt Nicolls: And we gotta go in and refine our prompts or edit the content so
25:32
Matt Nicolls: it feels more authentic.
25:33
Matt Nicolls: Right?
25:34
Matt Nicolls: That's really true for us, which which it is at the end of the
25:36
Matt Nicolls: day.
25:38
Matt Nicolls: But it's those people that really know how to learn, to to leverage them
25:42
Matt Nicolls: and orchestrate them.
25:43
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
25:44
Matt Nicolls: Developers on my team are using different AI tools to generate code in the
25:47
Matt Nicolls: same way.
25:48
Matt Nicolls: It's like, well, we you have to know how to write it yourself
25:52
Matt Nicolls: so you can validate that whatever is output by the AI is legit because
25:56
Matt Nicolls: a lot of times it is not.
25:58
Lisa Nichols: There's still some hallucinating going on.
26:01
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
26:01
Matt Nicolls: Right?
26:01
Matt Nicolls: And so, you know, still being that orchestration layer of
26:06
Matt Nicolls: I need to know what to build.
26:08
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
26:09
Matt Nicolls: Right?
26:09
Matt Nicolls: I need to understand how to get there, and then I can use an
26:12
Matt Nicolls: AI as a force multiplier, as they say, to speed things up.
26:15
Matt Nicolls: Let's get that velocity going.
26:17
Matt Nicolls: Let's let's get rid of the tedious stuff, so we can focus on higher
26:21
Matt Nicolls: level things.
26:22
Matt Nicolls: And,
26:24
Matt Nicolls: that's where we are right now.
26:27
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
26:27
Lisa Nichols: For sure.
26:28
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, I wanna get back to something that you talked about in the
26:32
Lisa Nichols: in the beginning of our talk, and I want you to really explain this
26:35
Lisa Nichols: more.
26:35
Lisa Nichols: You've been talking a lot about this CI for CI, critical infrastructure
26:40
Lisa Nichols: for critical infrastructure.
26:41
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
26:42
Lisa Nichols: Tell me a little bit more about what that means if you could get
26:45
Lisa Nichols: even a little bit deeper into that, and why does it matter?
26:50
Matt Nicolls: The reason it matters is the demand to build these data centers
26:54
Matt Nicolls: and all the necessary infrastructure to to connect them all and pull them together
26:59
Matt Nicolls: is
27:00
Matt Nicolls: is exceeding our our capabilities right now.
27:06
Matt Nicolls: So we have to figure out a way to optimize these infrastructure
27:11
Matt Nicolls: companies, the construction companies, cooling, manufacturing, and all of that to
27:15
Matt Nicolls: be able to operate more efficiently to be able to meet that demand.
27:19
Matt Nicolls: You know, I'm thinking about Todd Fenders at Maraton.
27:23
Matt Nicolls: Right?
27:23
Matt Nicolls: I know I know they're they're providing cooling for data centers, and that's a
27:27
Matt Nicolls: big part of their business.
27:28
Matt Nicolls: And he's he's thinking about how can I make this how can
27:32
Matt Nicolls: I make us more efficient?
27:34
Matt Nicolls: How can I meet that demand?
27:35
Matt Nicolls: How can we how can we be there to get that mark market
27:39
Matt Nicolls: share?
27:40
Matt Nicolls: And, that's gonna be through digital is gonna be a big part of that.
27:44
Matt Nicolls: Right?
27:44
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
27:45
Matt Nicolls: How can we streamline your processes?
27:47
Matt Nicolls: How can we automate some of those processes?
27:50
Matt Nicolls: Right?
27:50
Matt Nicolls: How can we how can we ensure
27:53
Matt Nicolls: growth and scale while ensuring quality?
27:57
Matt Nicolls: Because that's always a problem.
27:58
Matt Nicolls: Right?
27:59
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
27:59
Matt Nicolls: There's no there's no room for error there.
28:02
Matt Nicolls: Right?
28:02
Matt Nicolls: And so, so those are the that's where we wanna really make a big
28:06
Matt Nicolls: impact.
28:07
Matt Nicolls: But, even taking a step back and and looking at a bigger picture outside
28:11
Matt Nicolls: of just the CI for CI to support AI and the and the
28:15
Matt Nicolls: industries that support this growth, every business
28:19
Matt Nicolls: has their critical infrastructure piece.
28:21
Matt Nicolls: Right?
28:22
Lisa Nichols: Exactly.
28:22
Lisa Nichols: Mission critical.
28:24
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
28:24
Matt Nicolls: What are those mission critical pieces that have to work, that have to be
28:27
Matt Nicolls: there?
28:28
Matt Nicolls: And, that's what our focus is.
28:31
Matt Nicolls: You know, we we how can we be part of solving your biggest, scariest
28:35
Matt Nicolls: problems and
28:37
Lisa Nichols: get
28:37
Matt Nicolls: the right people at the table to tackle it and be that critical
28:41
Matt Nicolls: infrastructure for your critical infrastructure.
28:43
Lisa Nichols: Right.
28:44
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
28:45
Lisa Nichols: And you guys have already been so successful
28:48
Lisa Nichols: in at many, many, and many organizations doing that.
28:51
Lisa Nichols: And, yeah, it'd be fun to continue to
28:55
Lisa Nichols: be a part of that, that conversation.
28:58
Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
29:00
Lisa Nichols: You've said before modernization is a new innovation.
29:03
Lisa Nichols: Explain that.
29:04
Lisa Nichols: Dig deeper into that, Matt.
29:05
Lisa Nichols: What do you mean by that?
29:07
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
29:08
Matt Nicolls: And maybe a better way to say it is is modernization is the gateway
29:12
Matt Nicolls: to innovation,
29:15
Matt Nicolls: because there's a lot of opportunity,
29:18
Matt Nicolls: out there right now to modernize old tech.
29:21
Matt Nicolls: And it's just it's a have to.
29:22
Matt Nicolls: We have to do it.
29:23
Matt Nicolls: We gotta you know, this is just old and clunkier.
29:25
Matt Nicolls: It's out of support.
29:26
Matt Nicolls: It's a security issue.
29:27
Matt Nicolls: We've gotta modernize this old tech.
29:30
Matt Nicolls: And, we need to make sure that we're focused on not
29:34
Matt Nicolls: just lifting and shifting to new technology.
29:37
Matt Nicolls: We need to be we need to take a fresh look at whatever problem
29:40
Matt Nicolls: that was was being solved by that old tech and apply some innovation.
29:44
Matt Nicolls: And to me, innovation is the creative application of technology
29:48
Matt Nicolls: to solve a problem.
29:49
Matt Nicolls: So how can we think about it differently?
29:52
Matt Nicolls: How can we apply a little creative thought and reimagine what this new solution
29:56
Matt Nicolls: is gonna be?
29:57
Matt Nicolls: So it's not just a technology lift, but it's it's a new way of
30:01
Matt Nicolls: doing it.
30:01
Matt Nicolls: It's a more innovative, better, more efficient way of doing it
30:06
Matt Nicolls: to help push your organization forward.
30:08
Lisa Nichols: Right.
30:09
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
30:09
Lisa Nichols: Why would you wanna just lift and shift?
30:11
Lisa Nichols: I mean, you do need to, as you said, take a fresh perspective and
30:15
Lisa Nichols: step back.
30:16
Lisa Nichols: And because there's been so many advances, right, in the technology,
30:21
Lisa Nichols: you know, probably since that system was even put in place, at
30:25
Lisa Nichols: the beginning.
30:26
Lisa Nichols: You know?
30:26
Lisa Nichols: So
30:27
Matt Nicolls: Right.
30:27
Lisa Nichols: Don't just, do that.
30:29
Lisa Nichols: I love that.
30:30
Lisa Nichols: So Yeah.
30:31
Lisa Nichols: Really
30:31
Matt Nicolls: If you lift if you lift if you do a technology lift without evaluating
30:34
Matt Nicolls: for the opportunity of innovation, you've kinda failed, I think.
30:38
Lisa Nichols: You've missed it.
30:39
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
30:39
Lisa Nichols: You've missed a big opportunity.
30:42
Lisa Nichols: Well, I'm gonna ask you one more question, then we need to take a
30:45
Lisa Nichols: quick break.
30:46
Lisa Nichols: And we've talked a lot about AI already.
30:49
Lisa Nichols: Our digital intelligence, it's not a new thing.
30:52
Lisa Nichols: You know?
30:52
Lisa Nichols: It's not.
30:53
Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's been around for a long time.
30:56
Lisa Nichols: But, you know, it's the the use cases and the way that we can
31:00
Lisa Nichols: use it.
31:01
Lisa Nichols: It's just become so much more accessible, I think.
31:05
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
31:06
Lisa Nichols: Acceptable and yes.
31:08
Lisa Nichols: But, you know,
31:10
Lisa Nichols: how should CIOs, do you believe, really be thinking about this?
31:13
Lisa Nichols: And you've already talked about the education piece, but what else would you like
31:17
Lisa Nichols: to say about that, Matt?
31:18
Matt Nicolls: Well, I think it's important that especially at the speed at which AI
31:22
Matt Nicolls: is moving,
31:24
Matt Nicolls: because of accessibility like you mentioned before,
31:28
Matt Nicolls: that it's not just about learning.
31:31
Matt Nicolls: Right?
31:31
Matt Nicolls: It's about surrounding yourself with the people who already know.
31:36
Matt Nicolls: You earlier when you were talking about our team and you said, oh, Matt,
31:39
Matt Nicolls: you know, we brought you on because you're good at this and whatever.
31:42
Matt Nicolls: Like, I quickly learned I needed to have people around me that knew a
31:45
Matt Nicolls: lot more than I did.
31:46
Matt Nicolls: So I can I can prove you wrong right there?
31:50
Matt Nicolls: But if and and CIOs know this.
31:52
Matt Nicolls: Right?
31:52
Matt Nicolls: You've gotta surround yourself with good people, talented people because there's a breadth of
31:56
Matt Nicolls: technology that's under your watch, and you can't know it all.
32:00
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
32:00
Matt Nicolls: But, the fastest way to learn,
32:04
Matt Nicolls: is to bring in people who already know it.
32:06
Matt Nicolls: Right?
32:06
Matt Nicolls: People that you know, that you trust, that have been there, done that, that
32:10
Matt Nicolls: you can rely on to be an adviser for you.
32:12
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
32:14
Matt Nicolls: Be cautious in moving forward.
32:16
Matt Nicolls: So cautious optimism with constant learning.
32:19
Matt Nicolls: I think it's key for that.
32:22
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
32:22
Matt Nicolls: You you don't have to know everything.
32:25
Matt Nicolls: Right?
32:25
Matt Nicolls: You don't have to know everything, but you have to know enough to hold
32:29
Matt Nicolls: people accountable
32:31
Matt Nicolls: so that that you know what they're saying rings true and and you have
32:34
Matt Nicolls: faith in faith in it.
32:35
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
32:37
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
32:38
Lisa Nichols: Well, not to put a shameless plug in here, Matt, but that's why
32:42
Lisa Nichols: you need good partners.
32:43
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
32:44
Lisa Nichols: That's why you need good technology partners.
32:47
Matt Nicolls: That's great.
32:48
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
32:49
Matt Nicolls: Hundred percent.
32:50
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
32:51
Lisa Nichols: Well, we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back
32:54
Lisa Nichols: with Matt Nichols on the Something Extra podcast.
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33:28
Lisa Nichols: Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast
33:32
Lisa Nichols: with Matt Nichols.
33:34
Lisa Nichols: So, Matt, you've been in this space for almost three
33:38
Lisa Nichols: decades.
33:40
Lisa Nichols: Three decades.
33:40
Lisa Nichols: That's a long time, Matt.
33:42
Matt Nicolls: Great, Link.
33:43
Lisa Nichols: There has been so much that change has changed.
33:46
Lisa Nichols: Right?
33:48
Lisa Nichols: How how are how do you think CIOs,
33:52
Lisa Nichols: based on what you saw thirty years ago, how are CIOs seen differently
33:56
Lisa Nichols: in the business now?
33:59
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
33:59
Matt Nicolls: That's a that's an interesting one.
34:01
Matt Nicolls: It really has changed quite a bit
34:04
Matt Nicolls: as of a shift from focusing on IT in general, not
34:08
Matt Nicolls: just the CIO, but all the way down to the boots on the ground.
34:11
Matt Nicolls: Right?
34:12
Matt Nicolls: We're seen as, like, an IT IT was like a support function
34:16
Matt Nicolls: for the business, kind of a siloed organization.
34:20
Matt Nicolls: Many CIOs were reporting to CFOs.
34:22
Matt Nicolls: They didn't really have a seat at the table.
34:25
Matt Nicolls: And, you know, IT was an enabler, but
34:29
Matt Nicolls: it was also a hassle for people.
34:30
Matt Nicolls: And, oh my gosh, my password and this and that.
34:32
Matt Nicolls: They didn't really they weren't really speaking the same language.
34:37
Matt Nicolls: It's really important that you're able to speak the business's language.
34:41
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
34:41
Matt Nicolls: And that can be a real challenge.
34:45
Matt Nicolls: Went went through the
34:48
Matt Nicolls: TechLX program, and they had a big, focus
34:52
Matt Nicolls: on marketing,
34:54
Matt Nicolls: which is really key.
34:55
Matt Nicolls: In fact, my daughter just graduated from college, and and we were down there
34:59
Matt Nicolls: meeting with some of the other parents.
35:01
Matt Nicolls: One of the parents I met with was actually a a CMO.
35:04
Matt Nicolls: And for a while in his organization, he stepped in as a CIO, which
35:07
Matt Nicolls: is a which is an odd leap.
35:09
Matt Nicolls: And we had a great conversation about the importance of being able to communicate
35:14
Matt Nicolls: your ideas in a way that's in the the what's in it for me
35:18
Matt Nicolls: message.
35:19
Matt Nicolls: The looking for the true benefit.
35:22
Matt Nicolls: The the so what question that I talk to my teams a lot about,
35:26
Matt Nicolls: which is if you're trying to communicate an idea to somebody and at the
35:29
Matt Nicolls: end of your statement, somebody could ask the question, so what?
35:33
Matt Nicolls: You haven't gotten to the root of that issue yet.
35:36
Matt Nicolls: And and so I encourage them, just keep asking yourself, so what?
35:40
Matt Nicolls: So what?
35:40
Matt Nicolls: So what?
35:41
Matt Nicolls: Every time you make a statement because the truth is in there somewhere.
35:44
Matt Nicolls: And when you get to that, you'll be able to communicate that in a
35:47
Matt Nicolls: way that a nontechnical person will get it.
35:50
Matt Nicolls: And I think CIOs are learning that.
35:52
Matt Nicolls: Right?
35:52
Matt Nicolls: They they've they've all they've got seats at the table now.
35:55
Matt Nicolls: Right?
35:55
Matt Nicolls: They're they're being seen as the business.
35:58
Matt Nicolls: Like, the the organizations that are that are that are kind of the front
36:02
Matt Nicolls: runners in that space, the CIO is no longer a a support
36:06
Matt Nicolls: silo within the organization to enable IT and enable the business.
36:10
Matt Nicolls: They are the business.
36:12
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
36:13
Matt Nicolls: And and I encourage our teams and and, the teams that we partner with,
36:19
Matt Nicolls: don't see your your software engineers as an example, as a team that's gonna
36:22
Matt Nicolls: build you some software.
36:24
Matt Nicolls: Those engineers need to be embedded within your business unit.
36:28
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
36:30
Matt Nicolls: Their their their next paycheck, their bonus should
36:34
Matt Nicolls: depend on achieving a business objective, not delivering a piece
36:38
Matt Nicolls: of software.
36:40
Matt Nicolls: And shifting that perspective is going to make it so
36:44
Matt Nicolls: you've got real team real team between your IT
36:48
Matt Nicolls: and your business.
36:49
Matt Nicolls: They're all in there working together to get the ball into the end zone.
36:52
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
36:53
Matt Nicolls: That's the biggest shift that I've seen.
36:56
Matt Nicolls: And, it's really it's really gonna catapult
37:00
Matt Nicolls: these businesses forward.
37:02
Lisa Nichols: Agreed.
37:03
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
37:03
Lisa Nichols: And we say all the time.
37:05
Lisa Nichols: I mean, we are business people first, Matt.
37:08
Lisa Nichols: We're not take knowledge is first.
37:09
Lisa Nichols: We're business people first.
37:11
Lisa Nichols: We solve challenges.
37:13
Lisa Nichols: We solve, you know, and look for opportunities
37:16
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
37:16
Lisa Nichols: Right, to drive business.
37:19
Matt Nicolls: It's the the the man I was telling you about, the, the the CMO
37:23
Matt Nicolls: who became the CIO interim, his son is
37:27
Matt Nicolls: going to school for cybersecurity and data science.
37:30
Matt Nicolls: And I was asking him, well, are you gonna do this?
37:32
Matt Nicolls: He's like, well, I'm not so sure.
37:35
Matt Nicolls: I'm like, well, you're about to graduate next year.
37:38
Matt Nicolls: So he said, well, I really want to be in a space where I
37:41
Matt Nicolls: can work with people.
37:43
Matt Nicolls: You know?
37:43
Matt Nicolls: And I'm I I I enjoy engaging with them, learning about those problems.
37:47
Matt Nicolls: And I said, buddy, you're in a good spot.
37:49
Lisa Nichols: You are.
37:50
Matt Nicolls: In data science, you've gotta be able to bridge the gap between the need.
37:53
Matt Nicolls: What are you really trying to accomplish here?
37:55
Matt Nicolls: What's the business objective?
37:57
Matt Nicolls: And having the technical chops to go understand the data and the technology
38:01
Matt Nicolls: behind it to make that happen, you're gonna be a star in that space
38:06
Matt Nicolls: where there's gonna be a lot of people in that space that don't have
38:09
Matt Nicolls: the interpersonal communication skills and the soft skills that you have
38:14
Matt Nicolls: in your your ability to understand business, and that that's gonna
38:18
Matt Nicolls: set you apart.
38:19
Lisa Nichols: Oh, no doubt.
38:21
Lisa Nichols: No doubt.
38:22
Lisa Nichols: No doubt about that.
38:23
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, you talk to CIOs every day.
38:26
Lisa Nichols: What do you and I'm sure that there are CIOs that that
38:30
Lisa Nichols: because of this rapid
38:33
Lisa Nichols: change that we're seeing, that they feel behind or they feel overwhelmed.
38:37
Lisa Nichols: There's more to do on their plate than they have feel like they have
38:40
Lisa Nichols: the time for.
38:41
Lisa Nichols: What would you what kind of advice would you have for them?
38:48
Matt Nicolls: You know, I'd say if you're feeling overwhelmed, a lot of times,
38:53
Matt Nicolls: it's because you're well, probably a hundred percent of the time.
38:56
Matt Nicolls: It's because you've got a technical challenge in front of you or a business
38:59
Matt Nicolls: challenge in front of you that you don't know how to solve or you
39:01
Matt Nicolls: don't have the expertise for.
39:03
Matt Nicolls: And there's an interesting balance there, and it's not just CIOs.
39:06
Matt Nicolls: It's across the board.
39:07
Matt Nicolls: You've got you've got, you know, IT directors, engineers
39:11
Matt Nicolls: that have worked for a company for ten, fifteen years.
39:15
Matt Nicolls: Right?
39:16
Matt Nicolls: The great thing is is they have deep domain knowledge, which is irreplaceable.
39:19
Matt Nicolls: It's very difficult to get specific domain knowledge,
39:25
Matt Nicolls: but it's at the expense of missing out on technology
39:29
Matt Nicolls: exposure.
39:30
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
39:31
Matt Nicolls: Right?
39:31
Matt Nicolls: I feel super blessed to be working with so many different organizations in
39:35
Matt Nicolls: different industries because it gives me and my team a lot of exposure to
39:39
Matt Nicolls: different technologies, different approaches to applying that technology in creative
39:43
Matt Nicolls: ways.
39:46
Matt Nicolls: So you need a balance having, you know,
39:50
Matt Nicolls: having your teams that have been there for a long time and you trust
39:52
Matt Nicolls: them and they've got that domain knowledge with bringing in fresh perspective
39:57
Matt Nicolls: and being open to doing things differently and being open to thinking differently.
40:01
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
40:02
Matt Nicolls: Because it doesn't take long for your team to elevate and learn that new
40:05
Matt Nicolls: technology.
40:06
Matt Nicolls: If if somebody's been brought in that understands that technology, it can
40:10
Matt Nicolls: help elevate them quickly.
40:12
Matt Nicolls: Right?
40:12
Matt Nicolls: And you you don't wanna lose them.
40:14
Matt Nicolls: You wanna keep them fresh.
40:15
Matt Nicolls: You want those committed team members.
40:17
Matt Nicolls: They're irreplaceable.
40:19
Matt Nicolls: But that's a good place to bring in partners or being open to hiring
40:22
Matt Nicolls: people with more modern,
40:24
Matt Nicolls: skill sets and things like that.
40:27
Matt Nicolls: And that goes from all from boots on the ground all the way up
40:29
Matt Nicolls: to the CIO.
40:30
Lisa Nichols: Sure.
40:31
Lisa Nichols: You know, Matt, as you were talking, it just reminded me,
40:35
Lisa Nichols: we've been really blessed many times, haven't we, to walk alongside
40:40
Lisa Nichols: teams where we where our people and their people are
40:44
Lisa Nichols: collate located together
40:46
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
40:46
Lisa Nichols: And co laboring together for a solution.
40:50
Lisa Nichols: Right?
40:50
Lisa Nichols: And Yeah.
40:51
Lisa Nichols: As you said, that really can help elevate a team that has that
40:56
Lisa Nichols: deep domain knowledge, but maybe needs a little bit fresh perspective
41:00
Lisa Nichols: on what's possible with technology.
41:03
Lisa Nichols: So, it just reminded me of that.
41:05
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, you've worked across lots of sectors from food service to energy
41:10
Lisa Nichols: to logistics.
41:11
Lisa Nichols: How do you tailor your approach to innovation when the definition
41:15
Lisa Nichols: of mission critical looks so different across these industries?
41:21
Matt Nicolls: What you learn, in working across these different industries is there's
41:25
Matt Nicolls: they have a lot more in common,
41:28
Matt Nicolls: than they think or realize.
41:29
Matt Nicolls: And when we're working with a new partner and they're like, do you have
41:34
Matt Nicolls: experience in this domain or this tech stack or whatever?
41:40
Matt Nicolls: I think that I think that it's best for them to open their mind
41:44
Matt Nicolls: a little bit and stop looking for we need somebody with deep industry
41:48
Matt Nicolls: domain.
41:50
Matt Nicolls: Look for look for
41:53
Matt Nicolls: experiences outside of your domain to come bring a fresh perspective.
41:57
Matt Nicolls: Right?
41:58
Matt Nicolls: And so the way that we compose our teams are we have our
42:02
Matt Nicolls: solution engineers.
42:04
Matt Nicolls: They're the innovators.
42:04
Matt Nicolls: Right?
42:05
Matt Nicolls: They're the ones who understand the technology.
42:07
Matt Nicolls: They've got the business brain.
42:09
Matt Nicolls: They've got the creative side.
42:11
Matt Nicolls: Right?
42:12
Matt Nicolls: They have the ability to show the art of the possible to come in
42:15
Matt Nicolls: and understand the need and and show the art of art of the possible.
42:19
Matt Nicolls: We've got our app app devs and and delivery leads
42:23
Matt Nicolls: that help get the ball into the end zone and and deliver.
42:27
Matt Nicolls: We've got UI UX that brings that human centered engineering,
42:31
Matt Nicolls: that functional design to the table, which is mission critical.
42:35
Matt Nicolls: And, and then we have domain specialists.
42:38
Matt Nicolls: Right?
42:38
Matt Nicolls: Oh, we need to integrate with this ERP.
42:41
Matt Nicolls: Well, we'll bring somebody with that specific knowledge into the team to help us
42:45
Matt Nicolls: navigate those waters.
42:47
Matt Nicolls: But the team would be upside down if we said, well, that should be
42:49
Matt Nicolls: the primary focus is integrating with the ERP.
42:52
Matt Nicolls: Really, what you want is you want the the solution minded team that
42:56
Matt Nicolls: comes to the table Mhmm.
42:58
Matt Nicolls: And augment that with the with the specialist in that
43:02
Matt Nicolls: domain or the specialist in that technology stack.
43:06
Lisa Nichols: Right.
43:08
Lisa Nichols: Very good.
43:10
Lisa Nichols: Well, let's go back to CI for CI,
43:14
Lisa Nichols: critical infrastructure for critical infrastructure.
43:16
Lisa Nichols: You've said a couple times now that this is your mission.
43:21
Lisa Nichols: Can you, give us an example of how this really shows up in practice?
43:26
Lisa Nichols: What does it look like to build a technology behind the technology?
43:30
Lisa Nichols: Maybe you've got some examples that you can share with our listeners.
43:34
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
43:35
Matt Nicolls: For sure.
43:35
Matt Nicolls: So you had mentioned earlier, partnering with these organizations to
43:39
Matt Nicolls: help advance their mission.
43:41
Matt Nicolls: You know, a lot of times, they've got they've got the teams.
43:44
Matt Nicolls: They've got the talent.
43:45
Matt Nicolls: They've got the technical some of the technical exposure.
43:48
Matt Nicolls: Maybe they haven't done it yet.
43:49
Matt Nicolls: Let's say they wanna move.
43:50
Matt Nicolls: They were trying to move to the cloud, right, in a in a more
43:53
Matt Nicolls: sophisticated way or a more,
43:56
Matt Nicolls: a deeper investment into that stack, and they've got some experience with it.
44:00
Matt Nicolls: Well, it's not that they can't do it.
44:03
Matt Nicolls: It's that they'd they'd like to have someone come alongside of them that can
44:06
Matt Nicolls: help help navigate around the the pitfalls and potholes and show them
44:10
Matt Nicolls: where all the skeletons are buried and all that sort of stuff.
44:12
Matt Nicolls: Right.
44:13
Matt Nicolls: It's not that they can't move forward.
44:14
Matt Nicolls: It's that they wanna be able to move forward with confidence.
44:17
Matt Nicolls: And so, with all the ever evolving landscape of technology,
44:22
Matt Nicolls: we'd like to be able to come in and bring our experience to the
44:25
Matt Nicolls: table to help those companies advance with confidence.
44:29
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
44:29
Lisa Nichols: That's the key.
44:30
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
44:31
Lisa Nichols: Advance with confidence.
44:33
Matt Nicolls: Bringing in some some perspectives from other organizations that we've worked with.
44:37
Matt Nicolls: Like, how did we how did we solve the that's happened so many times
44:40
Matt Nicolls: when we've been doing a discovery assessment or workshop,
44:44
Matt Nicolls: and we're we're we're kind of collaborating a whiteboarding with a team.
44:48
Matt Nicolls: And
44:50
Matt Nicolls: Jason and I will look at each other, or Brian and I will make
44:52
Matt Nicolls: a connection, be like, we this is just like what we did for
44:56
Lisa Nichols: Yes.
44:56
Matt Nicolls: On the board.
44:57
Matt Nicolls: Right?
44:58
Matt Nicolls: But we can totally lateral this over here and apply it in this way.
45:02
Matt Nicolls: And, it's been such just such a benefit to have the experience in in
45:06
Matt Nicolls: having all those different, you know, those different solutions to provide, and it really
45:10
Matt Nicolls: brings a lot to the table.
45:12
Matt Nicolls: So, we're hopeful that we can bring some of that and really make a
45:15
Matt Nicolls: meaningful difference.
45:17
Matt Nicolls: We're very business objective oriented.
45:21
Matt Nicolls: We're very ROI oriented.
45:23
Matt Nicolls: So when we when we look at doing projects, we wanna lead with
45:27
Matt Nicolls: that.
45:27
Matt Nicolls: We wanna lead with does it make sense to do this at all and
45:30
Matt Nicolls: why?
45:31
Matt Nicolls: Like, what's the real what's the real reason we're doing this from a business
45:34
Matt Nicolls: perspective?
45:35
Matt Nicolls: And so if we can
45:38
Matt Nicolls: if we can look at an organization
45:41
Matt Nicolls: like, Black and Veatch, you know, Mike Adams is doing a phenomenal
45:46
Matt Nicolls: work out there.
45:47
Matt Nicolls: And just being in the room with a guy for an hour, you're like,
45:49
Matt Nicolls: man, get ready because he's moving forward a hundred miles an hour.
45:53
Matt Nicolls: Right?
45:53
Lisa Nichols: Right.
45:54
Matt Nicolls: He's changing the in in in their building data centers, and they're solving all
45:57
Matt Nicolls: kinds of cybersecurity problems and infrastructure problems.
46:00
Matt Nicolls: And and if there's anything that we can do to take
46:04
Matt Nicolls: a fresh perspective or fresh look at that and bring some fresh perspective to
46:08
Matt Nicolls: the table and help supercharge their team in any way, I wanna be
46:12
Matt Nicolls: a part of that.
46:13
Matt Nicolls: I wanna be a part of that because if we can help ensure that
46:16
Matt Nicolls: we're able to lay the groundwork with this seven trillion dollar investment that
46:20
Matt Nicolls: these organ companies are making and governments are making in our country,
46:25
Matt Nicolls: I wanna make sure it's successful.
46:26
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
46:27
Lisa Nichols: Talk about velocity.
46:29
Lisa Nichols: Right, man?
46:30
Lisa Nichols: With Mike, and, I know you really highly, highly respect
46:34
Lisa Nichols: him and what he's doing at Black and Veatch right now.
46:38
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
46:40
Matt Nicolls: Well,
46:40
Lisa Nichols: I have a few more questions here for you, and then we'll we'll get
46:43
Lisa Nichols: into, something extra.
46:46
Lisa Nichols: But you've you've referenced the AI agent infrastructure,
46:51
Lisa Nichols: composable platform, scalable frameworks.
46:54
Lisa Nichols: These aren't one off tools.
46:55
Lisa Nichols: They're systems of innovation.
46:57
Lisa Nichols: What does that shift look like when it's done right, Matt?
47:02
Matt Nicolls: Well, I think some of the things that we're helping,
47:06
Matt Nicolls: partners with is kind of destructuring
47:10
Matt Nicolls: their legacy architecture into more composable
47:15
Matt Nicolls: parts and pieces that can be orchestrated.
47:18
Matt Nicolls: Right?
47:18
Matt Nicolls: So we have we have legacy systems.
47:21
Matt Nicolls: A lot of them are monolith systems.
47:23
Matt Nicolls: And I always say, you know, if if we're gonna if we're gonna upgrade
47:27
Matt Nicolls: this legacy tech or we gotta break apart this monolith, I I always equate
47:31
Matt Nicolls: it to how do we change the oil in the truck while we're driving
47:34
Matt Nicolls: it.
47:34
Matt Nicolls: Right?
47:35
Matt Nicolls: And there's some there's some great technology out there and architectural patterns you can
47:39
Matt Nicolls: follow to decouple all these parts and pieces.
47:42
Matt Nicolls: And, once you get to that place, it allows you to say,
47:46
Matt Nicolls: okay.
47:46
Matt Nicolls: All these parts and pieces are decoupled.
47:49
Matt Nicolls: They're integrated, but they're not type tightly coupled.
47:51
Matt Nicolls: So we could potentially swap out this one piece, modernize just that
47:55
Matt Nicolls: one piece without affecting the downstream systems.
47:58
Matt Nicolls: And we've got a number of case studies around doing that very thing where
48:01
Matt Nicolls: we've got, you know, for Ameren, they've had
48:05
Matt Nicolls: seventy two applications of varying degrees of legacy technology
48:10
Matt Nicolls: from something modern all the way back to VB three or AS four hundred
48:14
Matt Nicolls: or whatever.
48:15
Matt Nicolls: And they're all tightly coupled to this Oracle database.
48:19
Matt Nicolls: And Mhmm.
48:20
Matt Nicolls: They wanna move something to the cloud.
48:21
Matt Nicolls: How do you do that?
48:23
Matt Nicolls: You you can't you can't you can't plan to flip the
48:27
Matt Nicolls: switch and have a D Day moment three years from now and hope that
48:30
Matt Nicolls: everything works.
48:31
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
48:31
Matt Nicolls: You first have to take a fresh look at that architecture,
48:35
Matt Nicolls: decouple all of those parts and pieces so you can move forward in a
48:38
Matt Nicolls: more measured, pragmatic way.
48:41
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
48:41
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
48:42
Lisa Nichols: That's really wise.
48:44
Lisa Nichols: Really wise.
48:46
Lisa Nichols: Matt, you talk about the customer customer of my customer a lot.
48:50
Lisa Nichols: What does that mean to you, and how does it change the way that
48:54
Lisa Nichols: CIOs should be building?
48:57
Lisa Nichols: Customer of my customer.
48:58
Matt Nicolls: Customer of my customer.
48:59
Matt Nicolls: We say that all the time.
49:01
Matt Nicolls: And that is, at the end of the day, if we're if IT is
49:04
Matt Nicolls: building something for a business unit or they're or it's
49:08
Matt Nicolls: customer and customer facing, it's like, that's where your that's where your focus
49:12
Matt Nicolls: needs to be.
49:13
Matt Nicolls: Because if I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna help you help the person you're
49:17
Matt Nicolls: trying to help.
49:17
Matt Nicolls: That makes sense.
49:18
Matt Nicolls: I don't know if that's
49:20
Matt Nicolls: but but at the end of the day, that's where the rubber hits the
49:23
Matt Nicolls: road.
49:24
Matt Nicolls: That's where we wanna stream streamline and optimize if you're looking for something
49:28
Matt Nicolls: internal.
49:29
Matt Nicolls: If you're customer facing, how can you improve that customer journey and customer experience?
49:33
Matt Nicolls: And if and if you're thinking about your customer's customer, you're always gonna be
49:37
Matt Nicolls: in alignment with your customer.
49:39
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
49:39
Lisa Nichols: That is so true because that's who they're serving.
49:42
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
49:43
Lisa Nichols: I mean, Matt, it just reminds me because our tagline is improving
49:47
Lisa Nichols: the world, you know, harnessing the power technology to improve the world.
49:51
Lisa Nichols: And what we mean by that, truly, I'm even thinking mission
49:56
Lisa Nichols: wise, we want our customer's mission to become our customer
50:00
Lisa Nichols: our mission.
50:01
Lisa Nichols: Right?
50:02
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
50:02
Lisa Nichols: And their mission, they've got customers themselves.
50:06
Lisa Nichols: So Right.
50:07
Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's it really, there is,
50:10
Lisa Nichols: what I wanna say, common thread there, that truly I mean, I've
50:15
Lisa Nichols: always thought, you know, Bear's mission is to feed the world.
50:19
Lisa Nichols: Well, every time we help Bear with something, that that's our
50:23
Lisa Nichols: mission too.
50:24
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
50:24
Lisa Nichols: That's right.
50:25
Lisa Nichols: Right?
50:26
Matt Nicolls: And, Customers are their farmers, but their customer's customer, it's
50:30
Matt Nicolls: us.
50:31
Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
50:32
Lisa Nichols: And if that doesn't get somebody excited, you know,
50:36
Lisa Nichols: that that that'll get you up in the morning when you Yeah.
50:39
Lisa Nichols: When you think of it that way.
50:41
Lisa Nichols: So
50:42
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
50:43
Matt Nicolls: I'd say another part of that too is, like, really getting to know your
50:46
Matt Nicolls: customer's customer.
50:47
Matt Nicolls: You know, we spend a lot of time shadowing people, really understand what they
50:51
Matt Nicolls: do every day to really get it.
50:55
Matt Nicolls: My grandma used to say, if you don't have time to do it right,
50:57
Matt Nicolls: what makes you think you have time to do it again?
51:00
Lisa Nichols: That's a wise grandma.
51:03
Matt Nicolls: How many times have you heard a company does, you know, invest
51:07
Matt Nicolls: in a in a new system or a modernized technology, and it gets into
51:10
Matt Nicolls: the end user hands.
51:11
Matt Nicolls: And they're like, what is this?
51:12
Matt Nicolls: What what we can't use this, or it doesn't really meet the needs.
51:16
Matt Nicolls: So you really need to start with an empathetic approach of really truly understanding
51:19
Matt Nicolls: putting yourself in their shoes.
51:21
Matt Nicolls: It saves so much time.
51:23
Matt Nicolls: You know?
51:23
Matt Nicolls: Just get get down there with the end users and figure out what they
51:26
Matt Nicolls: really actually need.
51:27
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
51:27
Matt Nicolls: Bring some of your experiences to the table and maybe show them what's possible.
51:31
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
51:32
Matt Nicolls: I love I love starting a sentence, and I did it earlier today talking
51:35
Matt Nicolls: to, a partner and said, wouldn't it be cool if
51:40
Matt Nicolls: and then fill in the blank.
51:41
Matt Nicolls: Wouldn't it be cool if we could automatically and then having them say,
51:46
Matt Nicolls: oh my gosh.
51:46
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
51:47
Matt Nicolls: That would be awesome.
51:47
Matt Nicolls: Right?
51:48
Matt Nicolls: Because now you know you're onto something.
51:50
Matt Nicolls: You've shown them the art of the possible.
51:51
Matt Nicolls: You got them excited about what what how their life could improve, how their
51:55
Matt Nicolls: business could improve, how their customer's experience could improve.
51:58
Matt Nicolls: And, it's very, it's very excited
52:03
Matt Nicolls: exciting to be in that type of a collaboration.
52:05
Lisa Nichols: Oh, for sure.
52:07
Lisa Nichols: You know?
52:07
Lisa Nichols: And, Matt, I'm just thinking I'm I'm going back to the conversation that
52:11
Lisa Nichols: you had with that young man this weekend at Ellen's graduation.
52:16
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
52:17
Lisa Nichols: And I'm thinking,
52:19
Lisa Nichols: is communication important?
52:20
Lisa Nichols: Is that an important skill for a technologist to have?
52:26
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
52:26
Matt Nicolls: It's it's it's critical.
52:28
Matt Nicolls: And and many engineers really don't.
52:31
Matt Nicolls: You know, a lot of engineers on my team don't.
52:32
Matt Nicolls: You know, they're introverted, and they're quiet.
52:34
Matt Nicolls: They're geniuses.
52:35
Matt Nicolls: Right?
52:36
Matt Nicolls: And that's okay.
52:37
Matt Nicolls: We need that too.
52:39
Matt Nicolls: So not every technologist has to be, you know, up up in front of
52:43
Matt Nicolls: the room waving their hands and drawing out whiteboards and and all that.
52:47
Matt Nicolls: But that has to be that's an important component of your team that has
52:51
Matt Nicolls: to be represented.
52:52
Lisa Nichols: Such an important component.
52:53
Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
52:54
Lisa Nichols: And I know, you know, our T echLX can have, you know, help with that.
52:58
Lisa Nichols: But,
52:59
Lisa Nichols: yeah.
53:00
Lisa Nichols: The and the communication, when I say communication, I'm
53:04
Lisa Nichols: not just talking about the speaking part.
53:06
Lisa Nichols: I'm talking about the listening.
53:09
Lisa Nichols: Listening is probably more critical.
53:11
Lisa Nichols: Right?
53:12
Lisa Nichols: Seek to understand first, you know, to borrow a line from Covey.
53:15
Matt Nicolls: Covey.
53:16
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
53:16
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
53:17
Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, IT is a complex beast.
53:22
Lisa Nichols: Even for those who've been in it their whole lives almost, Matt,
53:26
Lisa Nichols: speaking you know, you've done this your almost your whole career.
53:30
Lisa Nichols: But how can a CIO best communicate and educate the executive
53:34
Lisa Nichols: leadership team and board to understand and support the mission?
53:39
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
53:39
Matt Nicolls: I think that starts with empathy first.
53:41
Matt Nicolls: Right?
53:41
Matt Nicolls: Understanding where they're coming from.
53:43
Matt Nicolls: And then you've gotta be the genius that can figure out how to adapt
53:46
Matt Nicolls: your technical issues down to terms that they can understand.
53:50
Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
53:51
Matt Nicolls: And that that's across the board whether you're meeting with the board or with
53:55
Matt Nicolls: your business partner or with your end users.
53:58
Matt Nicolls: I can't talk to them in terms of of technology because they glaze over.
54:02
Matt Nicolls: I can barely tell my my wife's friends what I do for a living
54:05
Matt Nicolls: without them getting bored.
54:06
Matt Nicolls: You know?
54:07
Matt Nicolls: So we've gotta be able to relate it to terms that mean something.
54:11
Matt Nicolls: And t hat's important for communication.
54:13
Matt Nicolls: But at the end of the day, we really just wanna make an impact.
54:16
Matt Nicolls: You know?
54:17
Matt Nicolls: Engineers wanna make an impact.
54:19
Matt Nicolls: They wanna make a difference.
54:20
Matt Nicolls: And in order to make the difference, you have to understand what the true
54:23
Matt Nicolls: need is.
54:25
Lisa Nichols: I was gonna say you've got to understand the business objectives.
54:29
Lisa Nichols: And you have to map it back to those business objectives.
54:33
Lisa Nichols: Right?
54:33
Lisa Nichols: So t
54:35
Lisa Nichols: hey don't wanna hear about features.
54:37
Lisa Nichols: They wanna hear about the benefits
54:39
Matt Nicolls: That's right.
54:40
Lisa Nichols: Of whatever it is that you're building.
54:42
Matt Nicolls: You nailed it.
54:43
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, I mean, you've led, built, scaled for some of the most complex
54:47
Lisa Nichols: companies in the world.
54:50
Lisa Nichols: You know, if you had to say, what is that something extra
54:54
Lisa Nichols: that you think every leader and maybe if you wanna be specific
54:58
Lisa Nichols: a technology leader needs, what would you say that that would
55:02
Lisa Nichols: be?
55:05
Matt Nicolls: You know, I think especially in technology, it's it's easy to get,
55:10
Matt Nicolls: narrowly focused on on the technology itself.
55:13
Matt Nicolls: You know, we talked about understanding having empathy,
55:17
Matt Nicolls: for your customer's customer and for your board and your
55:21
Matt Nicolls: leadership team really understanding that.
55:24
Matt Nicolls: But I think it's bringing art art to the table.
55:27
Matt Nicolls: So, you know, we've got STEM.
55:29
Matt Nicolls: Right?
55:29
Matt Nicolls: Yeah.
55:29
Matt Nicolls: And and now it that's kind of evolved into STEAM .
55:33
Matt Nicolls: And that a that was added is for art.
55:36
Matt Nicolls: And,
55:38
Matt Nicolls: you know, Apple ran some ads back in
55:42
Matt Nicolls: the eighties, the think different campaign, and I've got a a whole collection of
55:46
Matt Nicolls: that artwork.
55:47
Matt Nicolls: You've seen it.
55:47
Matt Nicolls: It used to be in my office.
55:49
Matt Nicolls: Now it's in my home office.
55:51
Matt Nicolls: And I just loved it because the people that they brought front and center
55:54
Matt Nicolls: were not all technology people.
55:56
Matt Nicolls: In fact, most of them weren't technology people.
55:58
Matt Nicolls: I mean, Einstein was was in there, but Jim Henson was in there.
56:01
Matt Nicolls: Right?
56:01
Matt Nicolls: That guy thought different.
56:03
Matt Nicolls: You know?
56:04
Matt Nicolls: Jane Goodall thought different.
56:06
Matt Nicolls: And so thinking different is a is a key part of solving the solving
56:10
Matt Nicolls: the need here.
56:11
Matt Nicolls: Apple did a great job with that.
56:12
Matt Nicolls: Right?
56:13
Matt Nicolls: They they humanized,
56:16
Matt Nicolls: the personal computer.
56:17
Matt Nicolls: They humanized, you know, the iPod became like the extension of your hand and
56:21
Matt Nicolls: then the iPhone.
56:22
Matt Nicolls: Right?
56:23
Matt Nicolls: It's not
56:24
Matt Nicolls: design.
56:25
Matt Nicolls: I I I don't remember the quote exactly, from Steve Jobs, but it's design
56:29
Matt Nicolls: is not just how it looks and feels.
56:31
Matt Nicolls: It's how it works.
56:32
Matt Nicolls: I was like, that's how it works.
56:34
Matt Nicolls: And so being able to bring full circle art back to the table
56:38
Matt Nicolls: with user experience, customer experience,
56:42
Matt Nicolls: has been very fulfilling for me, because I
56:46
Matt Nicolls: I love that it's really what adapts this
56:50
Matt Nicolls: powerful technology in a way that a a human can use it.
56:54
Matt Nicolls: And we've all used those apps before that we get up more frustrated and
56:58
Matt Nicolls: and it they're clunky or slow or hard to understand, and it it
57:02
Matt Nicolls: adds frustration to your day and it brings you down and it makes you
57:05
Matt Nicolls: not wanna go back to it again.
57:06
Matt Nicolls: And we've all used those systems where it's so smooth and so easy.
57:10
Matt Nicolls: And, oh my gosh, I love this ecommerce site because it just works so
57:13
Matt Nicolls: great.
57:13
Matt Nicolls: And, that user experience is really an act of
57:17
Matt Nicolls: engineering.
57:19
Matt Nicolls: We we didn't this is not an invention of ours, but we refer to
57:22
Matt Nicolls: that as functional design.
57:24
Matt Nicolls: And I had a great conversation with Laura Dierberg produces one time when
57:28
Matt Nicolls: we started working with them about the end user experience.
57:32
Matt Nicolls: And, I said I referred to our designs as, you know, you're gonna love
57:36
Matt Nicolls: it.
57:36
Matt Nicolls: They're beautiful.
57:37
Matt Nicolls: And she's like, I don't need it to be beautiful.
57:39
Matt Nicolls: I need it to be functional.
57:40
Matt Nicolls: And I'm like, you know what?
57:41
Matt Nicolls: I'm never gonna say the word beautiful again because we that's true.
57:44
Matt Nicolls: That we make them functional.
57:46
Matt Nicolls: But at the end, when you see something that's really a sophisticated and elegant
57:50
Matt Nicolls: design, it's Mhmm.
57:51
Matt Nicolls: Functionally
57:53
Matt Nicolls: amazing, and it's also beautiful.
57:55
Matt Nicolls: You know?
57:56
Matt Nicolls: It just it has symmetry to it.
57:57
Matt Nicolls: It's got appropriate use of white space, so it's not overly cluttered.
58:01
Matt Nicolls: It's it's balanced.
58:02
Matt Nicolls: You know?
58:03
Matt Nicolls: And and all those things really matter at the end of the day even
58:06
Matt Nicolls: if only incrementally.
58:08
Matt Nicolls: We, we're building some software for Dierbergs in some of their mission critical
58:12
Matt Nicolls: customer facing departments.
58:14
Matt Nicolls: Right?
58:14
Matt Nicolls: They get very, very busy.
58:16
Matt Nicolls: And, the technology that they had at the time, sometimes they
58:20
Matt Nicolls: just revert to just writing things down on paper.
58:23
Matt Nicolls: Right?
58:23
Matt Nicolls: And there's nothing easier than writing an order down on paper, but but then
58:27
Matt Nicolls: you you can't track it.
58:28
Matt Nicolls: You you don't have reporting.
58:30
Matt Nicolls: You don't you know?
58:31
Matt Nicolls: And it's hard to where where did that piece of paper go?
58:33
Matt Nicolls: It's in the folder.
58:34
Matt Nicolls: Well, which folder?
58:34
Matt Nicolls: You know?
58:35
Matt Nicolls: The handoff can get clunky.
58:38
Matt Nicolls: And so so we're building a solution for that that's gonna be
58:42
Matt Nicolls: put the technology in the hands of these people taking orders.
58:44
Matt Nicolls: Well, that's fine on a Tuesday afternoon at two o'clock unless
58:49
Matt Nicolls: it's the Tuesday afternoon before Christmas Eve, then it's not fine.
58:53
Matt Nicolls: Right?
58:53
Lisa Nichols: It's like
58:54
Matt Nicolls: it's like red alert.
58:55
Matt Nicolls: You got twelve people deep in line.
58:57
Matt Nicolls: Everything's moving at the speed of light.
59:00
Matt Nicolls: And and I said I said to the team, I said, listen.
59:03
Matt Nicolls: We need to be thinking about the UI, the UX design, the user experience
59:07
Matt Nicolls: of this as if there are twelve people deep.
59:10
Matt Nicolls: It's the day before Christmas Eve.
59:12
Matt Nicolls: There's a hundred people behind the counter trying to fulfill orders and whatever
59:16
Matt Nicolls: else.
59:17
Matt Nicolls: And the last thing we want is for them to throw that tablet on
59:19
Matt Nicolls: the floor and pick up a piece of paper and start writing again because
59:22
Matt Nicolls: that's the easier, better way.
59:23
Lisa Nichols: Right.
59:24
Lisa Nichols: So how
59:24
Matt Nicolls: can we come up with a user experience that's better than
59:28
Matt Nicolls: scribbling something on a piece of paper, that they'll wanna adopt and use?
59:33
Matt Nicolls: Mhmm.
59:34
Lisa Nichols: That's a great litmus test, I thank Matt for it, and
59:38
Lisa Nichols: I know you guys have done amazing work.
59:40
Lisa Nichols: Another one of our, very esteemed we
59:44
Lisa Nichols: love we love Dierbergs.
59:46
Lisa Nichols: We love working with Laura and her team.
59:49
Lisa Nichols: Well, Matt, this has been so much fun.
59:51
Lisa Nichols: Thank you so much.
59:52
Lisa Nichols: I know that you're you're busy serving clients, and, I just
59:56
Lisa Nichols: appreciate you spending some time with me on the Something Extra podcast today.
1:00:00
Lisa Nichols: And I know that, your words and your wisdom, it's gonna help
1:00:05
Lisa Nichols: our listeners.
1:00:05
Lisa Nichols: It's gonna help them on their own journey.
1:00:07
Matt Nicolls: I appreciate that.
1:00:08
Matt Nicolls: It's been an honor to be on Lisa, so thank you very much.
1:00:11
Matt Nicolls: I appreciate it.
1:00:12
Lisa Nichols: Thank you.
1:00:13
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Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
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