Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Have Boks Derailed All Blacks Hopes? Razor’s Next Move & TRC is Anyone’s to Win!

Transcript

Have Boks Derailed All Blacks Hopes? Razor’s Next Move & TRC is Anyone’s to Win! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
My mother say, every way I walk in the streets, everyone just won't go on to wait for this podcast to get going on the Monday morning.
0:06
Our scrum got dominated. Our liner got dominated. Our kicking game under pressure wasn't good enough.
0:12
All blacks made small mistakes and yeah, we capitalized.
0:16
Everything they touched turned to gold. I mean, they weren't 33 points better.
0:20
We were under pressure with our defence and that first off.
0:23
I've never seen a team so emotional, so fired up.
0:27
Are we going to the northern hemisphere at the end of the year?
0:31
That's right. It's got to be hard. I just united you two accidentally.
0:42
Right. Welcome to rivals and I think
0:46
you're quite a good mood, are you?
0:48
They've got more white glasses.
0:51
It's unconfident.
0:53
So you're probably going to sleep right now.
1:06
Yes. So John only got 10.
1:09
That was 10 good points. Not too bad for a first off.
1:14
Victor, Victor, Victor, Victor, Victor.
1:18
The outstanding performance by the spring rocks and I got it completely wrong.
1:24
So I'm just going to face up very early. I thought that the second half was one of the best 40 minutes of rugby.
1:31
I was seen from a rugby team. So yeah, well done.
1:35
That was awesome. That was awesome. I think from an all black point of view,
1:40
when you look at that balance that you've been trying to find, probably over the last part of the championship.
1:47
And I didn't think you were going to find it.
1:49
I was hoping you wouldn't find it, but you found it in the second half.
1:52
So that was an awesome performance. You must be incredibly proud.
1:56
Obviously I'm gutted, absolutely gutted.
1:59
But I'm also really positive to make to be to be honest.
2:04
So yeah, you'd have to be stoked with that performance.
2:08
Jake, can we let the winner talk?
2:10
Thank you very much. Hello, Andrew. Nice to have you on.
2:15
Yeah, I think what a performance.
2:20
I think we actually started putting the pressure on in the first half to tries that didn't count.
2:27
Yeah, just a different mindset. I think if you look back at the championship,
2:32
if you look back at that first 40 minutes or 30 minutes against Australia at LS4,
2:38
there was something happening and then that second half we just got things wrong.
2:42
And we went completely conservative again.
2:46
And I think with the new younger players in the back line, they were just ready to play.
2:52
And I think with the four dominance that we had, I think the physicality of the back was just unbelievable.
3:01
And with that four domination and I mean the drive, whether it really gave those younger
3:08
back's opportunity, I say younger, but there's still a few guys.
3:12
I don't like Damien Williamson as one, two world cups.
3:15
Yes, he hasn't played a lot at 12, but we all knew, listen, this guy's got potential.
3:19
And all of a sudden, I think it's his first start at 12.
3:24
And we've all said he's at 12.
3:25
And he was fantastic.
3:28
Kain and Moody as well, I think 13 is his position.
3:31
We've said that for quite a while, he gets opportunity, he uses it.
3:34
So yeah, fantastic win.
3:38
I must say everywhere I walk in the streets, everyone just one gone to wait for this podcast to get going on the Monday morning.
3:46
They're really enjoying it.
3:47
And but again, I mean, we saw games Australia and that second half at LS Park.
3:52
We know the margins are actually this little and luckily for us in that second half, yes, we did put on the pressure.
3:59
More Blake's made small mistakes and yeah, we capitalized.
4:03
So I think a great performance by the spring box, but I think someone like Russell also said it.
4:08
We mustn't get ahead of ourselves.
4:11
I mean, I was in a team where we lost 49 no against Australia in 2006 and a year later, we won the World Cup.
4:20
So you get games like that where all of a sudden things just don't go right.
4:24
But I must say after that game, we made two, three big changes in the team as well.
4:28
And that was almost the beginning of a successful run.
4:32
But you're the you're the level hit here, you're the emotional one.
4:37
How did you see the game playing out?
4:39
First of all, very very good strategically from JK to jump on straight get your voice in early and be very complimentary and in an attempt to disarm Victor, who's in celebration mode.
4:52
I think you just took the edge off him a little bit. You added a little bit of humility, which is very clever.
4:59
Victor, I intend to agree with what you said.
5:02
Yes, it was an unbelievable performance in that second half.
5:05
They were kind of building towards the end of the first half after that initial kind of purple patch of from the old black spots.
5:12
I mean, they weren't 33 points better.
5:14
You know, it was just in this game, the margins are fine.
5:17
And when it reans at pours or the risk at richer, you know, and they built up that momentum and then they just became a juggernaut by the end of the game.
5:24
And it just felt like, yeah, that that balance the JK is talking about.
5:29
They got that balance right and everything fell into place.
5:32
I love them in villains. I asked you a couple of weeks ago, whether villains are fast.
5:38
If they can do what Willy Lulu does and the answer was kind of no, you know, he does something unique.
5:45
But I think I know he had 12 on his back, but he moved to 15 like towards the end of the first half.
5:50
He played most of the game at 15 and he looked absolutely brilliant.
5:54
He's so physical.
5:55
He's offloading him.
5:57
And Ethan Hooker have been tearing up the URC for a couple of years now.
6:01
Everything they touched turned to gold and it's nice to see them both doing it for the spring box because
6:07
that injection of youth and enthusiasm, 20 Brian, obviously kind of bringing in that expansive plan, getting that balance of being physical.
6:15
Yeah, like the perfect example of it was the scrum.
6:19
The scrum that just went in reverse from the old black's perspective.
6:23
Pick and go Kaleesi was like UC and Bolt sprinting up the middle of the pitch.
6:28
And then it's playing ceiling from there, flinging to the backs and they're going to score.
6:31
So that kind of summed it up a little bit.
6:33
There's a bit of everything from from South Africa.
6:36
And if they continue to get that balance and be as effective as they are, they're going to be they're going to be hard to beat.
6:41
Take a, take a, we in trouble.
6:43
Well, firstly, which, which side are you on, Ricardo?
6:46
Well, I'm just, I'm the, I'm the moderator.
6:48
Are you?
6:49
Yeah.
6:50
What's on you on them?
6:51
I'll answer that question.
6:52
I just want to, I want to ask, Ricardo, you, I mean, we sat here last week and we looked at this other African team and we said, listen.
7:03
These are the end of the year, right?
7:04
It's the guys getting to old and I went through the team.
7:07
I said, listen, they can pick these guys, they're younger.
7:10
They already on 30 test matches, but they almost second string, but young guys waiting to get opportunity.
7:17
And we gave that opportunity and with all blacks, we haven't seen that.
7:22
It's pretty much the same 23, 25, maybe one or two changes.
7:27
Do you think they've, they've got the ability now and will they have a look at it just to see?
7:33
Listen, I mean, if you look at the 1015 combination,
7:37
they've played Bowden and Huffman, that's a little fallback together for a few times, that McKenzie.
7:46
And some just feels like it doesn't work.
7:49
Is there other combination that they can throw in and say, listen, let's take a chance.
7:53
Let's give some other younger kids opportunity.
7:57
So Victor, you know how you spoke about that 48 point loss.
8:01
Then you won the World Cup the next year.
8:05
I was at North Harbour a few years ago when the team lost by the same amount.
8:09
So I think when you look at it, the trouble is like when, when you lost against us last week,
8:16
and we spoke about it, you know, we challenged because the team lost.
8:20
It came down to individual eras.
8:22
The trouble is with New Zealand and I've been talking to everyone.
8:25
I've been traveling around the country today.
8:27
Like the trouble is with the performance in the second half is normally we'd come away and say we didn't catch the high ball we lost.
8:34
But our scrum got dominated, our line out got dominated.
8:38
Our high ball wasn't good enough, our kicking game under pressure wasn't good enough.
8:43
So all of a sudden you got five things and the whole country started panicking.
8:47
But for me, I'm actually quite excited about it because I think there's,
8:51
there, this is a moment in time where there's a disconnect, I believe.
8:56
Of a small percentage like you should trim me between the coaching staff, the players and the leaders, right?
9:02
That needs to be resolved. I think it, I think out of adversity comes a good rugby team.
9:08
And that doesn't get any worse than that, losing at home by imagine.
9:12
And in that South African side that you are struggling to actually dominate or have a performance in the last four or five years.
9:21
So I, there's a couple of things, there's a couple of things that that worry me.
9:27
Are the leaders stepping up during the game and have they been in this moment?
9:33
Enough to go, look, we're down 10 points and 10 points is when you obviously start pushing stuff because you know that if it goes any further.
9:42
So what are we doing under pressure? That's the first thing.
9:47
Okay, what are we doing under pressure when we're in that moment where you've got to win the game back?
9:52
The second thing for me is are the coaches thinking about the game and delivering it to the players so that they can play the game or other coaches, possibly doing too much so that our leaders on the field are not living those moments.
10:08
Selection wise, Victor, and I think when you look at our team, I think it's the best team we've got out there.
10:15
Do you put Rico back to center because he's the best defensive center we have?
10:19
Do we think about putting Jordi Barrett back, back to fullback so that we can have a really solid kicking go?
10:28
Because if you're Australian now, what are you going to do?
10:31
Are you going to have a really good high ball kicking game?
10:34
Of course you are. Of course you are because we were really poor there.
10:39
So I think this is a hell of a crisis, but I think it's a crisis that we need.
10:44
I think Razor Robinson will go away and you know, you don't lose how good you are in a week, right, Victor?
10:52
You know, you don't do that.
10:53
In these moments, I think are really, really important for us because we need to address some stuff and we need to address it really, really quickly because this Aussie side is coming to Eden Park
11:03
and we've still got that to do.
11:06
So do we have a young team?
11:09
Will you change stuff out? I answered that question. Victor is no.
11:13
Does everybody need to look in the mirror?
11:16
The leaders, the coaches and say, what we've been doing might not be good enough.
11:21
We need to improve by 5% to get back on the horse.
11:24
I think we'll get that reaction.
11:26
I think it's the inconsistency under pressure that we need to address.
11:30
So that's what we need to do. We need to go back to the draw.
11:33
I would, I would do a couple of changes.
11:35
I don't think Adi is as dominant in the game when he plays seven.
11:41
So do we need to look to put him in a different role?
11:44
I don't, can you remember him carrying the ball in the last two test matches?
11:48
Five or six time breaker used to?
11:50
So is that, is that the balance of our loose forwards, right?
11:54
So I think you've got to look at the hole and go, this is a warning sign.
11:57
Are we good enough? Yes. Do we need to panic? No.
12:00
Do we need to look in the mirror?
12:02
We need to ask some hard, hard questions, which, which Russi's been doing through this whole series, right?
12:09
We spoke about how Russi continued to change the side.
12:13
I thought it was a positive and a negative.
12:15
On the other side, we spoke about raising, not changing the side.
12:19
So some of those guys that came on, for example, our young hooker,
12:23
he comes on to a situation in the biggest test match we don't need to make a mistake
12:27
and that line out fails, you guys score.
12:30
You know, those are moments you have to live, but we need to get better in that area of the game
12:36
because there's no way an all black team should capitulate like that.
12:40
Check it out.
12:41
I just want, yeah, I just want to come in. Yes.
12:44
Sorry, and I want to ask Andrew this.
12:47
I mean, if you looked at the game and that second half, they kept on kicking off to the left
12:53
and side of the field.
12:54
Ethan Hooker was winning back all those balls.
12:58
They're sitting with Will Jordan.
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He's on the right wing.
13:00
He's probably the best catch under the high bull ball.
13:04
Don't you change it around or even change him and Damien McKenzie around
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and say, listen, well, let's get you in this position.
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We don't want Ethan Hooker's probably to it's taller than McKenzie.
13:17
Don't you change that around?
13:18
Is it listen?
13:19
We've got our best eyeball catch and not catching the ball.
13:22
And South Africa is winning all those back and that's giving them a main time.
13:26
It's almost the same as the Argentina loss where they lost all those high balls
13:30
and the scraps went to Argentina.
13:34
Yeah, absolutely.
13:36
I mean, it comes to us.
13:37
Will Jordan, for example, I know you had a big moment last week,
13:40
but this this week, he was quiet and probably by his standards,
13:44
usually usually on how big moments and those big moments come from someone like him
13:49
or there was big moment from Wallace Citi or he kind of finds a way to bring
13:54
someone else into the game.
13:55
Those big moments all went to Chess and Kobe, Ethan Hooker, Timien McKenzie.
14:00
They won those big moments.
14:01
I don't know, like they only get the chance to execute those big moments
14:05
because their pack are dominant.
14:08
They bring off the bomb squad one minute in the second half,
14:11
which doesn't quite make any sense to me.
14:13
You can shine some light in that.
14:15
Why what the strategies are like that?
14:16
Why don't they just bring them on at half time, but then they get that dominance
14:20
up front and then they get that surge.
14:23
And that brings them into the game.
14:25
The big opportunities obviously Chess and Kobe created his own opportunity
14:28
with the intercept and I probably give South Africa a lifeline.
14:31
That game could be totally different if he knocks that ball on.
14:35
He gets in the passing channel, gets a yellow card like we saw Australia get
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against Argentina.
14:40
And again, Victor, it kind of plays on those fine margins.
14:43
If you get those things right, those big moments in the game,
14:46
like Jordi Barra came up with a big, huge play with the chip through Kobe.
14:51
I regathered it and went over and just this.
14:54
Jordi Barra just dislodged the ball, but we didn't we the rest of the big
14:59
moments all went to South Africa and it comes down to those moments and they took
15:02
those moments and that's the difference.
15:04
But yeah, thinking on on their feet, put it onto where Jordan makes perfect sense.
15:08
It just feels like South Africa thought through those moments and they created
15:11
the opportunity to create them.
15:13
That's actually Victor.
15:15
I'll answer that question.
15:16
That's the leadership that I'm talking about.
15:18
I would expect the leaders on the field to make those decisions.
15:22
Now, it might not be part of the game plan,
15:24
but that's when I think you've got mature leaders that have the confidence
15:28
to go, we're just going to change.
15:30
And I think that loss on Sunday will take a look at the whole package.
15:36
What are we doing as coaches to make sure that under pressure,
15:40
our players have the confidence to change or do things differently, right?
15:44
And so the answer for me is it's a it's a coach leadership thing.
15:48
And you've got to create those moments to say, this is not working.
15:52
What's alternative B and C?
15:54
And I think if we don't learn from that this this week and I think you highlight
15:59
at a point and this is the whole thing.
16:01
I think, you know, if you've had the same problem against Argentina,
16:06
then you have the same problem against South Africa in the second half.
16:11
Then you need to start thinking about selection to nullify that.
16:15
So is that Jordy Barrett back to full back?
16:18
No disrespect to Damien, no disrespect to the guys there because he's one
16:21
meter 95 and he gets in the air, right?
16:25
So I when I talk about this being a moment in time for this team,
16:31
we need to come out of this adversity and be so much better around our leadership,
16:35
around what we're doing on the field about the ability to change, right?
16:39
And possibly playing some of those guys.
16:43
And this is what we thought last year on the on the northern tour,
16:47
some of the guys that are coming on after a couple of injuries,
16:50
don't have the experience.
16:51
How would you feel if you're our young hooker that came on and you're throwing into
16:56
a line out five meters from our line and you don't nail it?
17:01
And people say, well, why'd they put them on?
17:03
You've got to be good enough to nail it.
17:04
But have you practiced that?
17:06
Have you put this young guy who's the third hooker into that situation?
17:10
So that's what I think we need to get better at.
17:12
So can I ask you, Victor, how do you compare this situation?
17:15
Because at the end of the day, this is a drawn series, you won one, we won one.
17:19
But the difference is is that when you lost, you went to plan B,
17:24
completely changed your team, played in a different style and destroyed the
17:29
obliques. Do the obliques have that ability?
17:32
I mean, do they have the ability to go to plan B?
17:34
Do they have the ability to bring a whole new team in?
17:36
Yeah, that's a question I've been asking because we haven't seen them.
17:41
I mean, in that era, in Dan Carter, Richie McCall, when they won the two
17:45
World Cup, you could play against New Zealand and they do put on out to be
17:49
team and it's almost just as strong.
17:52
I think that's really how the Africa is at the moment.
17:55
And I mean, if you talk about a team like Langester, they can do the same.
17:58
So all the really strong teams got that kind of depth where
18:04
if there's one or two key guys out, they don't panic because there was
18:08
other games where those guys got opportunities.
18:10
So I know last week we were talking is that the right thing to play as many
18:14
guys as good that no one knows who's number one, but some are working
18:18
for South Africa. But this was the Africa at the moment.
18:21
We talk about the different style. I think probably one of the biggest
18:25
influence or guys that influenced was Jasper Visa coming back.
18:29
I thought he was a means he was pretty close to Man of the Match as
18:33
well. I mean, I had a look at his statue. He said, I think he had 23
18:37
carries 38 post contact meters made and he was just unbelievable.
18:43
And you need someone like that in your back. I mean, he never gives a
18:46
step back. He's almost like a dwein for Miel and the Baki's
18:49
Gwerta. He just never gives a step back. And I mean, for him to put us on the
18:54
front foot and then he gives energy to everyone around him.
18:58
And that just gave us momentum and that gave the back the opportunity to
19:02
play on the front foot as well. So I thought Jasper were huge.
19:06
A guy like Satiti did it last year for New Zealand.
19:09
He was outstanding last year when he came in. He's also he's pretty quiet
19:14
so far. You don't see those big carries. So yeah, it will be interesting
19:18
to see what the New Zealand guys do.
19:21
Well, one thing, JK, just I know like a couple of suggestions you'd
19:26
meet there. I know we're just having this conversation, but you know,
19:28
put already surveyor back to it, get him, get his hands on the ball more
19:32
often, be more thoughtful, more strategic around the kicking game.
19:37
I would argue both of those don't they're like responding to like, so
19:41
I forget saying, this is the way we respond. This is the way we play rugby.
19:44
No, this is the way rugby's played. But New Zealand will be a different
19:48
solution. We all know New Zealand play a unique brand of rugby.
19:52
They probably maybe don't have the ability for like so that the
19:55
Africa demonstrated go physical, go confrontational, go direct, go
19:59
set peace oriented and then fling the ball wide and they've got backs
20:02
who can do damage as well. It feels like New Zealand have to stretch
20:05
the opposition. They got to move, especially when they're playing.
20:07
So they've got to move that South African pack around for me.
20:10
That's, you know, like early in the game, it was a different heart of when
20:14
you made your video, JK, it was a different.
20:17
The universe looked very, very different. You know, we had like to
20:22
survive, like just tipping the ball on Parker, tipping the ball on,
20:25
like guys getting their hands on the ball, moving the ball around.
20:28
That's something I'm not sure. So that I forgot, have that up front.
20:32
No, it's not. And I would argue snowmen, he's to start every game Victor.
20:35
Tell me, tell me I'm wrong. But when he comes on early, he's easily
20:38
got 60, 70 minutes in him. No problem. But he's the only one who does that
20:43
at that skill set. The rest of them are just big physical,
20:46
confrontational get over someone win collisions physically.
20:50
I feel like New Zealand, Walla, Citi, I don't think you can move him from
20:53
me because he's got something on bottom. He's got the ability to bring guys in,
20:57
tip in, side outside, look for our fluids. He's a ball player. Him.
21:01
I think that, like that needs to kind of encompass the rest of this all Blacks
21:05
pack more and breathe that and play the way they play for that first 15, 20
21:09
minutes. Let me answer that for you, Trimby, because I think it's,
21:13
it's a really good point. But what I'm, if you think about the first half,
21:17
I thought we were absolutely outstanding at times.
21:21
We looked amazing. We got around the spring block defense.
21:25
You know, I thought the Colby intercept was a really critical moment
21:29
because you need to create pressure, right? And what South Africa did is they
21:33
created pressure, but we created as much pressure in the first half, right?
21:37
We scored that try. We go ahead by 14 points or whatever, whatever it is.
21:41
The pressure changes. But I'm not saying, I'm not saying that,
21:45
I'm saying that Adi is not getting the ball.
21:48
So what are we doing in our attack set up to give him the ball, right?
21:52
Is it someone else getting the ball? Do we swap that round?
21:55
You don't necessarily swap him from seven to eight.
21:58
But if that means that that's how we play and the number eight's carrying the
22:02
more ball more, maybe we need to do that.
22:04
What you need to do with South Africa is you need to defuse their strengths.
22:08
If you can't catch the first four high balls,
22:10
then you are really playing into South African DNA's arms, right?
22:15
If you don't get off your defensive line and tackle these guys over the contact
22:21
line, then they get a roll on. So I'm not saying we need our solution.
22:26
Ah, play the game that we played in the first half, right?
22:29
But when we get put under pressure, what do we do to get back to playing our
22:34
style to put South Africa under pressure? I felt in the first half,
22:37
there was a couple of those those moments that you know, I call it cheating
22:42
where you go down and slow the game up, right?
22:45
There were a couple of those moments there where I thought, you know,
22:48
South Africa under pressure, if we can score here, we'll get them.
22:51
What happened though was we're not having the ability to get people
22:56
back to playing the game. We want to play because we're not nailing
22:59
some of those moments, right? We're not getting out of the ball in
23:03
his hands so he can get over the advantage.
23:04
We're not catching the high ball. Our kicking game, I believe when we're
23:08
under pressure, we need to look at that. Do we need to do more kick passes?
23:12
The little chip over the top is not working.
23:14
What is our attacking kicking game to put South Africa off their game?
23:18
That's my problem, right? So we know what South Africa is going to break and
23:22
they're outstanding. We've always said if they bring this balance of like the
23:26
forwards getting ahead and these backs that they've got, everyone's in trouble.
23:29
But what we're not doing is flicking that.
23:32
So South Africa came out, their first 15 minutes was amazing.
23:36
We didn't then go, this is what we need to do.
23:39
Let's kick off the other way, like let's get out of the ball with this move.
23:44
Let's go wide, wide again. What we did is we dropped the high ball,
23:47
gave it back to South Africa, made mistakes, let them get in the game.
23:51
Like we backed it, I think we did one short line out and got pummeled,
23:55
we threw one over the back. So all those things we can't afford to do.
23:58
If we want to establish our game and enforce it on South Africa,
24:03
what happened to us is they enforced their game on to New Zealand and we can
24:07
capitulate it.
24:08
So that's what I'm talking about. You must be really happy with the set piece of South Africa.
24:13
Yeah, I thought especially in the first half and then the first scrum just
24:18
after half time when the bomb squad came on, the scrum really looked good.
24:22
I actually thought the New Zealand, when they put on the
24:26
reserve props, it was a different game at scrum time.
24:29
They actually looked really good.
24:32
Line out started off slowly, lost that line out five meters from the line again.
24:38
And then another one, but then we got into it. I think once one got confident,
24:44
it was good. And then all of a sudden we contested.
24:47
I mean, it's probably the first clean win on a contesting line out that we won and
24:53
we scored of that. So I think set piece was really good.
24:58
I mean, our scrum's always been good.
25:00
I'm a big welcome low fan and somehow it's working.
25:04
It hasn't worked when he started and you actually think he's a start and a
25:08
Thomas the toy because he's more mobile will probably be better off the bench.
25:12
But somehow when Walker came on as two weeks in a row now,
25:16
where he comes on and he gives that big scrum and we scored that.
25:19
So the impact is definitely working.
25:22
And yeah, and like Andrew is saying, I think Archie is also showing
25:29
the guys that he brings a physicality, bring something different in the team,
25:35
a caring ability. And maybe it's time to play him a bit longer,
25:39
not just to play him in the last 30 minutes.
25:41
He was his impact was huge. I mean, that offloads, when he carries,
25:45
I mean, if he's close to the line, yes, he didn't count.
25:48
But if he's close to the line, no one can stop him.
25:50
He's just such a big strong man. So there are a few nice things there.
25:55
But yeah, the set piece and the way how we dominate the game line was unbelievable.
26:01
And I couldn't understand we were under pressure with our defense and that first off
26:05
when they went wide wide, put a lot of work on it.
26:09
And then on the second off, it felt like they didn't want to take those chances.
26:13
They almost just went back to kick long, give us gave us the ball back.
26:19
And they didn't test us in the second off.
26:21
Victor, I think there's two different selection philosophies.
26:25
And it's very easy after a loss to criticize one and after a win to talk about
26:30
how good the other one is because I think they both have their issues.
26:34
The issue about, you know, Razer being loyal is that some of those guys
26:40
that come on, haven't had any test experience and it's a hard way to learn, right?
26:45
You go on as the reserve hooker and you try and throw it to the back
26:49
instead of having a go to, right?
26:51
So my question is this, will Russi change the team now?
26:57
Or do you think that could be your ideal 15 in your play through the next World Cup?
27:03
No, he said it. He said it's a squat effort.
27:07
He said it's some of those older guys will get another opportunity.
27:10
And again, that's what I like. I mean, if you go into a really weak game,
27:16
this is probably not the backline that you want to pick.
27:20
You might change a few things up there.
27:22
But if it's a nice dry day, then there's no one better than Sasha
27:27
and a morning liberal to come out to play the attacking brand.
27:30
I mean, they were on the advantage line the whole day running at it.
27:34
The little kicks, and I love it.
27:37
And I think that's what you probably missed with Damian Williams
27:41
going to the line, little grubbers through good the pressure, isolate people at the back.
27:46
So it's a different game.
27:47
And I think that's what's nice at the moment that we can mix it up.
27:51
And it all depends if it's a wet game, you can play certain players.
27:56
And you can change it up and people struggle to prepare for you as well.
28:02
For a game.
28:04
Can I just ask you about there was a couple of wingers on display
28:07
playing the first tests.
28:08
What did you think of Ethan Hooker and
28:11
either way or I thought it.
28:12
Yeah, yeah, I think of those partners.
28:14
Yeah, Carter got his hands on the ball earlier on and I probably
28:19
the way he behaved kind of summed up the maybe frustration of a winger who just
28:23
just desperately wants to get his hands on the ball and get settled into his first test match.
28:27
But he got it at the base of the rock.
28:30
You might have picked it actually quick and just step through three lads,
28:34
put the afterburners on and then just little off flow.
28:37
So he looked immediately comfortable in in test match rugby.
28:42
I know he's been he's been tearing up elsewhere as well.
28:45
But Hooker it was slightly more of a like a traditional test match
28:50
contribution from a winger in that he he bided his time.
28:53
He waited for his moment.
28:55
He got into the air numerous times worked hard, worked really hard.
28:58
And then when the game opened up later on that he came into it,
29:02
put the ball to his hands and he's absolutely deadly good footwork,
29:06
but good probably more of a sprinter just puts the foot down and he's been
29:10
tormenting defenders in the URC for a couple of years now.
29:14
He's been the good two guys.
29:15
It's good to see him getting his opportunity.
29:17
Yes, he's big, but he's he's mobile as well.
29:19
I know you're saying that he'd be probably one of the ones in a wet weather
29:22
backline victory.
29:23
He's probably one of the ones you'd select.
29:25
But to be honest, yeah, but to be honest, he's got that ability.
29:29
There's no issue with him at all on a dry ball.
29:32
He looks just as deadly.
29:34
So yeah, both of them put their hands up and both of them perform pretty well
29:38
in their first opportunity.
29:39
And there's also another very important rugby competition going on at the
29:43
Women's World Cup and we've just been through the quarter final stage.
29:47
And so New Zealand still there, but an outstanding performance by South African
29:52
women and obviously a really great performance by the Irish.
29:56
I mean, I thought that I think some of the things around the female
30:01
game just really excites me your South African team Victor when they
30:06
came out like singing and stuff.
30:08
I just think that is what the game needs.
30:10
It was absolutely amazing.
30:11
But besides that, I think they're probably one of the most improved side
30:15
the South African female side gave our girls a run for their money in the first
30:20
stuff. I think that, you know, from a New Zealand side, we haven't had a
30:24
complete performance yet.
30:25
We've actually started pretty slow in most of the games we've played.
30:29
But I'm not too concerned about that.
30:31
I think, you know, now is incredibly difficult to get through.
30:36
So for me, I think the tournament has been amazing.
30:39
I think it's been amazing for our game as a whole, especially around the
30:42
fringes, but some of these teams that we haven't heard of for a bit
30:46
are just really on the improve.
30:48
And I don't know, you know, for me, this is what we need to grow our
30:53
female game. We need these World Cup.
30:54
So I just think it's been amazing.
30:56
I think next week's going to be incredible rugby as well.
30:59
So I'm looking forward to it.
31:00
I think the gap between the top four and the other teams are still
31:05
pretty big, but yeah, we're very proud of our ladies team.
31:09
What they've done is actually so interesting watching that first game,
31:14
knowing Swede's the brand really well, one of my first coaches and
31:17
working with him with the Lions as well.
31:20
A guy that really loves his attack and to take it wide and everything
31:24
and he just knew we couldn't compete with New Zealand like that.
31:27
I mean, he went to a 15 man wall, but all these interesting things.
31:31
But I mean, they stayed in the game and well done to them.
31:34
So very proud of our goals, but yeah, I think the real World Cup starts now
31:40
with the four top teams going at each other.
31:43
Yeah, and then Ireland obviously battled really, really, really well against
31:47
France and they got that kind of early early advantage.
31:51
13 points up at half time, wins blown one direction.
31:54
So France can back into it.
31:56
And I think the Irish girls have been kicking themselves.
31:58
It was a really good opportunity.
32:00
And I was kind of expecting some quarter final banter from Ulyans,
32:05
to be honest, because it struck again in a slightly different form.
32:08
So the main thing is not the only one kind of struggling with that, but
32:12
yeah, it's the tournament's been brilliant.
32:16
The tournament has been high profile, well supported competitive,
32:20
but there's concerns there as well.
32:22
There could be a little bit of a separation certainly with New Zealand and England.
32:27
Maybe put Canada into that as well, but yeah, it does feel like they're kind of
32:31
separate from the rest of the pack.
32:33
I'm torn in that because England obviously leading the way and the World Cup in England.
32:37
That's when they get the cries and that's when they get the support.
32:40
And then I just hope that support kind of trickles down to the rest of the competitions.
32:44
They do look predominant in the minute.
32:45
But yeah, the Irish girls put their hands up and performed very, very well.
32:50
I think that the journey of the last couple of years may be similar to South Africa.
32:53
Victor, since the girls turn professional, they've, they've really rubbed up their
32:58
high competitive. They are high, well, they execute.
33:01
So they need to be very proud of themselves.
33:04
It's about investment just to finish off for cutouts.
33:07
It's about investment and it's about competition, you know, like you've got to
33:13
have a really good competition and you've got to invest in the game.
33:15
And I think if you, if you do those two, the improvement is incredible.
33:20
And I think that we've been investing for a long time and England have probably
33:25
invested more in their female game and rightly so because they get great
33:29
crowds and that sort of stuff.
33:30
So I think the challenge for us going forward, both in our, in our male and female
33:37
game is our our competitions now, um, preparing us for the world stage.
33:43
You know, I think we need to get rid of super rugby from a male point of
33:46
you. Go back to our provincial game, get back to tribalism and traditionalism,
33:51
let the Australians play with Rannwick brothers, manly, and maybe one other.
33:56
And then we just have a competition like the NRL because I don't think super rugby
34:00
is now preparing our guys like the European gamers helping South Africa.
34:06
To play at test level.
34:07
And so I think we need to look at our competition.
34:09
If we go through the, and, and I think Ricardo brought up a good point,
34:13
I think this is the most important, uh, championship in many years because
34:19
everyone's so even, but it's not over yet.
34:21
South Africa and New Zealand are one all, we're one all, everyone's one all.
34:26
Right.
34:27
Um, and so I think it's a great competition.
34:29
If we don't win this competition, then I think we need to take a look at
34:34
and have some honest conversations about our high performance, um, you know,
34:39
parkways, whether they're the right ones.
34:41
You know, you'd have to look at South Africa, Trimby and, you know,
34:44
you know, some of the South Africa players better than me because I don't see
34:47
them anymore because they're playing in Ireland and playing in to lose and playing
34:51
in places like that, you know.
34:53
Um, and so I think we need to have a really good high performance
34:57
discussion if the rest of the tournament doesn't go like we want to.
35:01
But I also think that the big last on Sunday needs for all of us to reflect
35:06
because if you don't reflect Victor and I think this is one of the greatest things
35:09
about Russi, he's not scared to make some big goals and try different stuff.
35:14
And we are being a little bit conservative and we need to have some really
35:17
high level conversations if we do not win the championship because it's not
35:23
acceptable when you're a team like New Zealand.
35:25
I think I think the reason that we're not giving you a hard time about the quarter
35:29
finals is that in New Zealand, we've just been served quite a major dose of humility.
35:34
So we're not giving anyone a hard time at the moment.
35:37
But I don't, Ricardo, I don't think we're arrogant.
35:40
I might be, but I don't think the team's arrogant.
35:43
I don't think the team act arrogant.
35:46
I think that this is possibly, like I said before, one of the best moments in
35:50
this squad and this coaching, it's a great lesson.
35:55
We've got to learn from it.
35:56
I don't think we went into that game, arrogant.
35:58
I don't think we underestimate, you know, the South Africans.
36:02
I love it when we win.
36:03
So I'm going to be, I'm going to be vocal about that sort of stuff.
36:06
Just like Victor loves winning, just like Trimby loves winning.
36:09
But I don't think we got a dose of humility.
36:12
What we got was a reality check.
36:14
It's really different.
36:15
If we were arrogant and we lost that game, I wouldn't be worried at all.
36:18
But there's some bigger issues, I think, at play that you need to have
36:22
a courage to talk about.
36:24
There's something very, there's something.
36:28
That was a joke was it was something very impactful.
36:31
I think about like the emotional response as well.
36:33
We saw that emotional response from South Africa and whatever
36:36
about technically preparing around your game strategy, around your
36:39
execution, all that.
36:40
Sometimes if you're emotional, it just manifests itself on a score board,
36:44
winning collisions and it's a contact game, all that.
36:47
My, the only thing is from my perspective,
36:50
whatever about the level of humility or arrogant, I don't know if there is
36:54
JK, you'll deny it.
36:56
I would deny it as well, but there's a lot of pride in New Zealand.
36:59
And I kind of experienced that pride first hand.
37:03
And I, the, the Oblach's Ireland rivalry has really only been nine years
37:08
old because we beat them for the first time in Chicago in 2016.
37:13
And then two weeks later, we played them back in Dublin.
37:16
And I've never, I've never seen a team so emotional, so far up,
37:22
so kind of hell bent on proving a point we got assaulted when we
37:26
got back to Dublin two weeks later.
37:28
And that, it's just that response that you get.
37:31
South Africa, we got that a little bit from the weekend after the
37:34
week, the week before.
37:36
I hope Australia take the brunt of that New Zealand assault over
37:41
the next couple of weeks because if they don't get it,
37:44
then Adam will get it in Chicago at the start of November again.
37:47
And I'm seeing all of this conversation through Irish eyes.
37:50
And that makes me concerned.
37:52
That makes me think that New Zealand are extremely dangerous.
37:55
That being said, the, the rugby championship has absolutely delivered
38:01
this year, lots, it's been incredible.
38:03
That's someone, you know, that's coming from someone who's a six
38:05
nation snob. I feel like six nations is the yardstick by which
38:09
yes, maybe the, the level of rugby might be probably quite as good or
38:13
certainly slightly different.
38:15
But in terms of commercially, the, the occasion, everything that goes
38:19
with it, there's a, there's a prestige to it.
38:21
And it's just, it seems higher profile anyway, maybe because I live in
38:24
this part of the world.
38:25
But the fact that we're sitting on Australia 11 points South
38:29
African New Zealand 10 points, Argentine and nine points.
38:32
It's all up for grabs.
38:33
And for me, who would have thought before that lines to or maybe
38:37
after that first lands to lands test match against Australia?
38:41
I think Australia could win this rugby championship.
38:44
They're sitting on 11 points is going to come down to bonus points.
38:46
They get a win at home New Zealand.
38:48
They get pick up a bonus point away.
38:50
Maybe that might be enough because I think Argentina are absolutely
38:54
firing as well.
38:55
And they might pick off a win against South Africa in Argentina.
38:58
A lot to discuss slides.
38:59
And we might only have five minutes left.
39:01
No shit loads out there. Sorry.
39:03
Yeah, we'll have to talk about it next week.
39:06
But I'm with Trimby all of the sudden I'm a New Zealand supporter.
39:09
We can't let Australia win this competition.
39:12
So we need the old blacks to get back to the base.
39:15
And I mean South Africa got two huge taste matches ahead.
39:19
I think we said it last week.
39:21
I think Argentina is probably the base attacking side in the world at the moment.
39:25
And we need to play them twice.
39:29
We playing them in Durban.
39:30
We don't have the base record.
39:32
It's probably like Wellington for New Zealand is Durban for the spring box.
39:37
And then we're going to trick in them.
39:39
Luckily, we don't play them in Argentina.
39:41
So that might help us a little bit.
39:42
But I mean, it's going to be two huge taste matches.
39:46
And I think all of a sudden the letters go letters low cups alive as well.
39:50
So that's good.
39:52
That's back as well because in the last few years, Australia win very competitive.
39:57
Jake, we open with your video to Victor, which we put on social media.
40:02
And it's gone close to two million views.
40:05
I thought you just a great way to finish it.
40:07
Maybe some of the really nice gentle responses from people
40:12
to that particular video.
40:15
You know, it's called Francois.
40:17
It's cute how you link the glasses you wear to your confidence level.
40:21
Reminds me of my niece and kindergarten.
40:25
Then we've got someone the all blacks must have been poisoned again.
40:33
And we've got someone saying, doesn't he look a lot like Mrs. Doutfire?
40:40
Which yeah, that's probably true.
40:44
Yeah, there's about about a thousand comments.
40:46
And I'd say nine hundred and ninety nine are probably not on your side.
40:52
OK.
40:52
Yeah, but listen, this is what I love about our game.
40:55
I love all those people.
40:57
I think that's what rivals is about.
40:59
Like I just love.
41:01
I just love New Zealand.
41:03
I love the all blacks.
41:04
We win the Champions.
41:05
Trembley was talking shit and I can't wait to go and drink everybody.
41:08
Whatever the shit is.
41:10
What is this again?
41:11
Whatever.
41:11
Trembley is very quiet.
41:13
Are we going to the northern hemisphere?
41:15
Yeah, we're coming.
41:16
It's coming.
41:17
It's coming.
41:18
And then we love each other again.
41:21
And we're coming for you, mate.
41:22
Chicago.
41:23
Like we're coming.
41:24
But we're coming.
41:25
There's this northern hemisphere.
41:28
That is the beauty of our game.
41:30
Like if you go to London, it's like a second Joe Boog.
41:33
There's going to be more people in the stand with bloody South African jerseys on.
41:36
But we sit next to each other.
41:38
That's the beauty of this game.
41:39
The reason why we can do this is because we have utmost respect for people.
41:43
So I love the banter, you know, and like I always say to you, Ricardo,
41:47
gentlemen online, leave the fashion to me.
41:51
All right.
41:52
I'll show you what fashion is.
41:56
I'm lovin' the Banderlads when I've got no skin in the game.
41:59
When I got skin in the game in November.
42:01
We're coming for your skin, mate.
42:02
We're coming for your skin.
42:03
I know.
42:04
Look forward to it, Lads.
42:05
I might actually take a little bit of a break over November, Lads.
42:08
And you see a Christmas, yeah?
42:11
Depending on how it goes.
42:14
Talking about the aging team, Jake, OK?
42:17
Ireland.
42:19
Disney ages.
42:20
Why pass?
42:20
Why pass they used by, mate?
42:22
Why pass?
42:23
Why pass, brother?
42:25
Yeah.
42:26
That's too hard.
42:27
I've just united you two accidentally, haven't I?
42:30
All of a sudden.
42:32
Yes.
42:33
Thanks, Trimby.
42:34
All right, let's go.
42:35
Go on, drink some of that brandy and Coke.
42:38
Like that you can celebrate JK, you can commiserate.
42:41
And Trimby, you can just keep bringing the tonight.
42:42
I'm excited.
42:43
Let's sell that for a good together. Thank you so much.
42:45
I'm excited.
42:46
I'm excited.
42:46
I'm going to know, well, peace, praise for bringing you two nations together.
42:50
I'm excited, mate.
42:51
The greatest thing that happened.
42:52
This is the best thing that happened to the Oblaks for a long, long time.
42:54
I hope that makes sense.
42:55
I hope that ages as well as the 10-0 video.