Transcript

Sharri | 16 September · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Good evening.
0:07
Speaker 2: Tonight on the show, a prominent ABC host defends that
0:11
Speaker 2: disgraceful Opera House rally.
0:13
Speaker 1: I'll play you the comments.
0:15
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen misleads voters on green hydrogen, claiming he never
0:18
Speaker 2: believed the hype when he pledged billions of dollars to
0:22
Speaker 2: the project. And Dave Sharma hits back at Rhys Muldoon
0:25
Speaker 2: for calling him a fake Jew. Dave is on the
0:28
Speaker 2: show live. But first tonight, Energy Minister Chris Bowen is
0:33
Speaker 2: facing the heat for misleading Australians on green hydrogen.
0:36
Speaker 1: Claiming he never.
0:37
Speaker 2: Believed the hype when, in fact, his government committed billions
0:41
Speaker 2: of taxpayer funds to the projects. Bowen, the Energy Minister,
0:46
Speaker 2: claimed green hydrogen was the fuel of the future, that
0:49
Speaker 2: it would account for 30% of the world's transactions. And
0:53
Speaker 2: here are some of his comments when he believed and
0:57
Speaker 2: said that it was the future.
0:59
Speaker 3: I cannot begin to tell you how keen and intense
1:03
Speaker 3: the interest in Australian hydrogen green hydrogen is.
1:07
Speaker 4: This was a.
1:07
Speaker 5: Climate change budget.
1:10
Speaker 6: We had $ 2 billion of investment in green hydrogen.
1:12
Speaker 7: Electric planes will play a role on short-haul travel, say.
1:15
Speaker 5: Sydney to Canberra.
1:17
Speaker 8: Green hydrogen will step forward and play a big role.
1:20
Speaker 9: We had the green hydrogen Head Start program in the budget,
1:23
Speaker 9: $ 2 billion.
1:23
Speaker 5: We said that was a deposit, a down payment.
1:26
Speaker 2: And there was more where that came from. And Chris
1:28
Speaker 2: Bowen even said there'd be a revolution and Australia would
1:32
Speaker 2: be leading this industry globally.
1:35
Speaker 5: Only Labor has the plan to ensure that Australia is
1:39
Speaker 5: part of and is leading that hydrogen revolution.
1:42
Speaker 2: But his predictions turned out to be way off the mark.
1:46
Speaker 2: So off the mark, in fact, that many green hydrogen
1:49
Speaker 2: projects have proved unviable and some have become white elephants.
1:55
Speaker 2: And now that it hasn't panned out as Bowen planned,
1:58
Speaker 2: he's trying to rewrite history.
2:00
Speaker 1: He's saying that he never bought the hype.
2:04
Speaker 10: I never quite bought all the hype on green hydrogen
2:06
Speaker 10: at the top, but nor do I buy it at
2:08
Speaker 10: the bottom.
2:08
Speaker 5: It's not dead.
2:10
Speaker 8: It does have a future.
2:12
Speaker 2: I mean, does he think voters are stupid and forgetful?
2:16
Speaker 2: This revisionism is absurd. And the Coalition hammered him about
2:20
Speaker 2: it in Parliament this week.
2:23
Speaker 11: Last night, the Minister said with a straight face, I
2:26
Speaker 11: never quite bought all the hype on green.
2:29
Speaker 1: Hydrogen at the top.
2:30
Speaker 9: Or has he wiped this statement from his mind, like
2:33
Speaker 9: his promise.
2:34
Speaker 1: To lower power bills by $ 275? This is the.
2:38
Speaker 4: Case that it was a few years ago that it
2:41
Speaker 4: was suggested that green hydrogen could play a role in
2:44
Speaker 4: home heating.
2:46
Speaker 10: So there was a lot of hype in previous years
2:48
Speaker 10: about green hydrogen.
2:51
Speaker 5: Mr Speaker, I had the view.
2:54
Speaker 10: And have the view, I had the view and have
2:56
Speaker 10: the view that green hydrogen will play a role in
2:59
Speaker 10: industrial decarbonisation.
3:02
Speaker 2: And the Shadow Energy Minister, Dan Tehan, also pressed Bowen
3:06
Speaker 2: on his earlier claim that green hydrogen would generate $ 50
3:10
Speaker 2: billion and create tens of thousands of jobs in regional Australia. Well,
3:16
Speaker 2: on Chris Bowen's green hydrogen quest right beside him.
3:20
Speaker 1: Was billionaire Andrew Forrest.
3:23
Speaker 2: Twiggy is often portrayed in the media as a climate warrior.
3:26
Speaker 2: Here he was on the front cover of Time magazine
3:29
Speaker 2: in February last year with the headline, if you can
3:32
Speaker 2: see it on your screen, The Planet's Unlikely Ally. Well,
3:37
Speaker 2: this is despite the fact that the Australian Financial Review
3:40
Speaker 2: describes Fortescue as one of Australia's.
3:43
Speaker 1: Biggest corporate polluters.
3:47
Speaker 2: But Forrest had announced a goal of producing 15 million
3:50
Speaker 2: tonnes of green hydrogen a year by 2030.
3:53
Speaker 4: Fortescue Metals Group, your Australian iron ore miner and green
4:00
Speaker 4: hydrogen developer, has come here to demonstrate a big, heavy
4:05
Speaker 4: industrial company, carbon emitting company, can step beyond fossil fuels,
4:11
Speaker 4: do so profitably simply because we put in the thought.
4:14
Speaker 2: That That ABC interview was in 2022.
4:18
Speaker 1: But now even Andrew Forrest has largely walked.
4:21
Speaker 2: Away from green hydrogen projects, cutting some 700 jobs. Aaron
4:26
Speaker 2: Patrick in The Nightly points out that hydrogen is expensive
4:29
Speaker 2: to produce and dangerous to store. He writes, as the minister,
4:33
Speaker 2: Mr Bowen knows that Australia remains a global force in gas,
4:37
Speaker 2: coal and iron ore.
4:38
Speaker 1: When it comes to green.
4:39
Speaker 2: Hydrogen, Australia is a rounding error. and energy expert Aidan
4:45
Speaker 2: Morrison and Jude Bilk write in a paper for the
4:47
Speaker 2: Centre of Independent Studies. Green hydrogen is often heralded as
4:52
Speaker 2: a cornerstone of Australia's net zero ambitions, but the reality
4:56
Speaker 2: is that it's not viable today and it won't be
4:59
Speaker 2: in the foreseeable future. I mean, Chris Bowen's about face
5:03
Speaker 2: would be almost humorous if it didn't represent a colossal
5:06
Speaker 2: waste of taxpayer funds. His government was prepared to commit
5:11
Speaker 2: up to $ 10 billion of taxpayer funds into subsidising green hydrogen.
5:18
Speaker 2: Now he's trying to rewrite history and he hopes none
5:22
Speaker 2: of us will notice. Well, my friend and co-author Alex
5:29
Speaker 2: Rivchin went out to the ABC today to speak with
5:32
Speaker 2: journalist Hamish McDonald about our new book. Now, Hamish is
5:37
Speaker 2: the only journalist at the ABC who's covered our book,
5:40
Speaker 2: Bondi Terror. And he gave it a lovely mention on
5:43
Speaker 2: air to a different audience. He also kindly praised our book.
5:47
Speaker 2: He said it contained a lot of revelations, things he
5:50
Speaker 2: didn't know. And he asked some great questions about our
5:54
Speaker 2: interviews with the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess, and New South Wales.
5:58
Speaker 1: Premier, Chris Mintz.
6:01
Speaker 2: But then Hamish McDonald surprised me with a question I
6:05
Speaker 2: had to rewind to listen to twice, even three times,
6:08
Speaker 2: to make sure.
6:09
Speaker 1: He actually said, What I thought he had.
6:13
Speaker 2: Hamish defended the protesters at the Opera House on October 9,
6:18
Speaker 2: saying perhaps they weren't extremists, they were just expressing their
6:22
Speaker 2: democratic right to protest.
6:25
Speaker 1: Have a listen to this unbelievable question.
6:29
Speaker 9: There clearly were warnings that went out to the Jewish
6:32
Speaker 9: community telling them not to be in the CBD on
6:35
Speaker 9: that evening. That stood out as an unusual thing. And
6:38
Speaker 9: I know there's some discussion about whether that was an
6:41
Speaker 9: explicit warning from police or an interpretation of a warning.
6:46
Speaker 9: But clearly there were people there that were just expressing
6:49
Speaker 9: a view, you know, exploring their democratic right to take
6:53
Speaker 9: a position, which in itself is not extremist.
6:59
Speaker 2: Now, no doubt Hamish is well-meaning and he cared enough
7:03
Speaker 2: to cover our book and have Alex on his program.
7:07
Speaker 2: But his comment just there, that those at the Opera
7:09
Speaker 2: House rally that night were just expressing their democratic right
7:13
Speaker 2: to take a position and that they weren't extremists, I mean,
7:16
Speaker 2: this just shows how distorted the world view is of
7:20
Speaker 2: the ABC. And let's just remind you and remind Hamish
7:24
Speaker 2: what the protesters actually said that night. And a reminder
7:43
Speaker 2: that leaders from Anthony Albanese down, including the ASIO chief
7:47
Speaker 2: and the premier, have condemned that Opera House rally. No
7:52
Speaker 2: one has excused it as simply expressing a democratic right
7:55
Speaker 2: to protest. They were despicable scenes of hate. As the Premier,
8:01
Speaker 2: Chris Min, said at our book launch, he was wrong
8:04
Speaker 2: to let that go ahead and he regrets it. And
8:08
Speaker 2: this rally unfolded while Israel was still burying its dead
8:12
Speaker 2: and before any full-scale military response had even been devised,
8:17
Speaker 2: let alone begun.
8:18
Speaker 1: This was a rally.
8:20
Speaker 2: In celebration of the massacre. It was unfettered hatred of Jews.
8:26
Speaker 2: And this was the start of normalising and tolerating the
8:30
Speaker 2: hate that then continued to escalate with firebombings of a preschool,
8:35
Speaker 2: a synagogue and more. As Mike Burgess told us for
8:39
Speaker 2: our book interview, it's the.
8:41
Speaker 1: Hatred that first erupted at the Opera House on October
8:45
Speaker 1: 9 and went largely unchallenged and became normalised because it
8:49
Speaker 1: wasn't properly addressed by law enforcement or political leaders.
8:55
Speaker 10: Well, I was genuinely, I was concerned, gravely concerned. I
9:01
Speaker 10: believe that my organisation has done its job and we've
9:03
Speaker 10: communicated that. But like some Australians, I was concerned about
9:08
Speaker 10: this and concerned about behaviours being normalised. And again, I've
9:13
Speaker 10: said that in public speeches, those behaviours being normalised raised
9:18
Speaker 10: the temperature, which increased the permission for politically motivated violence.
9:21
Speaker 10: And sadly, we saw that, as I've said, from, threatening,
9:25
Speaker 10: intimidating behaviour through to direct targeting of people, businesses and
9:29
Speaker 10: places of worship through to the killings of Jewish Australians.
9:36
Speaker 2: And former ASIO boss Dennis Richardson in comments last night
9:40
Speaker 2: at the Lowy Institute made a similar point.
9:43
Speaker 11: Much of the media focus on the 9 October demonstration
9:48
Speaker 11: at the Opera House was on the precise words used
9:52
Speaker 11: by the mob instead of on the appalling purpose and
9:56
Speaker 11: nature of the demonstration per se. I tend to agree
10:00
Speaker 11: with those who argue that following 7 October, we dropped
10:05
Speaker 11: the ball and failed to draw a line.
10:08
Speaker 2: I mean, how can anyone not understand this and simply
10:12
Speaker 2: think that the protesters were expressing their democratic right to rally? Well,
10:17
Speaker 2: Alex Rivchin handled the question from Hamish well, and he
10:20
Speaker 2: made these excellent points.
10:23
Speaker 12: Not moderates. These are people that have been engaged in
10:25
Speaker 12: this sort of activism for years and years and years.
10:28
Speaker 12: They relished what happened on October 7. They called that
10:31
Speaker 12: first rally because they were celebrating, in their own words,
10:34
Speaker 12: the humiliation of Israel. And many people probably came along
10:38
Speaker 12: over the next few years to protest because of concern
10:41
Speaker 12: for pictures they'd seen online and on the TV's. out
10:44
Speaker 12: of legitimate humanitarian concern, but they wittingly or unwittingly joined
10:47
Speaker 12: a movement that was destructive and violent. And I think
10:51
Speaker 12: we need to understand that. We can't give people a
10:54
Speaker 12: pass for coming along to these rallies, hearing obscene chants,
10:59
Speaker 12: seeing the banners of terrorist organisations and still choosing to participate.
11:08
Speaker 2: Now, a reminder that our book... that I wrote with
11:11
Speaker 2: Alex is about the.
11:12
Speaker 1: Bondi terror attack. That's why Alex was there doing the interview.
11:17
Speaker 2: Yet there wasn't a single question from Hamish about any
11:21
Speaker 2: of the victims whose stories we tell, all the heroes, all.
11:25
Speaker 1: The first responders.
11:27
Speaker 2: But there was a question about Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
11:33
Speaker 9: Disaggregate these issues when you have a leader of Israel
11:37
Speaker 9: like Netanyahu, and obviously there's not a homogenous view amongst
11:41
Speaker 9: Australia's Jewish community about his government, but how do you
11:45
Speaker 9: disaggregate these issues when at times he will draw a
11:48
Speaker 9: link between criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism?
11:53
Speaker 1: Extraordinary, isn't it?
11:55
Speaker 2: And hearing these comments, you can understand why Dennis Richardson
11:58
Speaker 2: just last night lectured the media for failing to properly
12:01
Speaker 2: understand and cover anti-Semitism. But of course, as always, Alex
12:06
Speaker 2: handled that question beautifully.
12:10
Speaker 12: Look, you know, I think it's very plain and simple
12:13
Speaker 12: to separate from a foreign government and a foreign leader,
12:16
Speaker 12: which we might like or dislike and agree with certain policies,
12:19
Speaker 12: which is perfectly fine from the local Jewish community. So
12:24
Speaker 12: if people can't make that same distinction and wish to
12:29
Speaker 12: attack and assail and exclude and violently assault Jewish Australians
12:34
Speaker 12: because they don't like the government of Israel, they're culpable.
12:37
Speaker 12: It's not based on what Netanyahu does. I believe in
12:41
Speaker 12: personal responsibility and accountability, as we spoke about at the
12:43
Speaker 12: beginning of this segment. If people choose to attack Jews
12:47
Speaker 12: in Australia, they're responsible and nobody else.
12:48
Speaker 2: I mean, Alex is so articulate. He's an excellent representative
12:53
Speaker 2: of the Jewish community and we're all so lucky.
12:55
Speaker 1: To have him.
12:57
Speaker 2: But again, to the point, a book about the Bondi
13:00
Speaker 2: terror attack and the many victims whose stories we lovingly
13:04
Speaker 2: tell in great care and detail. And the ABC host
13:08
Speaker 2: asks about Netanyahu. Now, I've done many interviews for the
13:13
Speaker 2: book here on News 24, in The Australian, in The
13:16
Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph, on Sunrise, on 7 News, on The 7
13:19
Speaker 2: Midday Show, on 2GB, with Ben Fordham and on 4BC.
13:24
Speaker 2: And every single journalist has asked me about the stories
13:28
Speaker 2: of the victims, survivors and first responders. And I've spoken
13:32
Speaker 2: about beautiful Matilda. about Geffen, who regrets running in too
13:37
Speaker 2: late after Ahmed, of Cesar Baratza, who ended the shooting,
13:41
Speaker 2: of Rabbi Eli Schlanger, who came out of his safe
13:44
Speaker 2: hiding spot to try and reason with the shooter to
13:47
Speaker 2: try and protect his flock and was killed in the process.
13:52
Speaker 2: I've been asked about Virginia Marr, the wife of Catholic
13:55
Speaker 2: photographer Peter, who's now converting to Judaism, and Tibor Weizen,
14:00
Speaker 2: who was shot next.
14:01
Speaker 1: To his wife of 57 years.
14:04
Speaker 2: All these stories and more we've captured in our book
14:09
Speaker 2: and spoken about in media interviews, spreading their light and
14:13
Speaker 2: their legacy. Not a single question on the ABC about
14:19
Speaker 2: any of them. And bearing in mind, again, to be fair,
14:22
Speaker 2: Hamish is the only journalist at the ABC that's even
14:27
Speaker 2: covered our book.
14:28
Speaker 1: On the Bondi terror attack.
14:29
Speaker 2: Not one other ABC journalist or program has mentioned it
14:33
Speaker 2: or been interested.
14:35
Speaker 1: Hamish is the best of the lot.
14:38
Speaker 2: It shows we're all working so hard, at least at
14:42
Speaker 2: News Corp, to improve our nation. But the public broadcaster
14:46
Speaker 2: is a long way behind. Now, just before I get
14:53
Speaker 2: into the rest of the show, the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess,
14:57
Speaker 2: has warned that in the nine months since Bondi, ASIO
15:01
Speaker 2: and law enforcement have has disrupted 16 cases where a
15:05
Speaker 2: terrorist threat was considered serious, but not necessarily imminent. 16
15:11
Speaker 2: cases disrupted since Bondi. Well, my sources have told me
15:16
Speaker 2: a bit more about these cases. I'm told that a
15:19
Speaker 2: third involved minors. Just under half involved Islamic extremists. And
15:27
Speaker 2: the remainder were ideologically motivated, meaning neo-Nazis or white supremacists
15:33
Speaker 2: or mixed ideology. And we're increasingly seeing this bizarre mix
15:38
Speaker 2: of Islamic extremism and neo-Nazi ideology. But this revelation is
15:43
Speaker 2: a reminder yet again that we're living in a dangerous
15:46
Speaker 2: time where we all have to be vigilant. And a
15:49
Speaker 2: thanks to those watching over us for disrupting these 16 cases. OK,
15:58
Speaker 2: let's bring in tonight's panel, former Victorian Liberal Party President
16:01
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger and News24 host Joe Hildebrand.
16:04
Speaker 6: Good evening.
16:04
Speaker 1: Great to see you both.
16:06
Speaker 2: Just with you, Michael, just a quick reaction to what
16:08
Speaker 2: you just heard there in my editorial on the ABC.
16:12
Speaker 1: I mean, Michael, do you think they've got a problem
16:14
Speaker 1: on this topic?
16:16
Speaker 8: So one journalist has interviewed you and Alex about the book.
16:23
Speaker 8: You can be assured of a couple of things about
16:24
Speaker 8: the ABC. One, if you listen to ABC radio news
16:27
Speaker 8: in the morning, every few days there's an anti-Israel story
16:31
Speaker 8: dressed up as Israel is the aggressor, killing children in Gaza,
16:36
Speaker 8: et cetera, et cetera, right? Something's happening in Lebanon, Syria.
16:40
Speaker 8: You see a stream of anti-Israel stories on the ABC
16:45
Speaker 8: in the mornings on a regular basis. And secondly... So
16:50
Speaker 8: Hamish McDonald, and credit to him for doing the interview,
16:52
Speaker 8: at least there's one there. But he says to Alex Rivkin,
16:58
Speaker 8: perhaps they were just exercising their free.
17:01
Speaker 5: Peaceful right of assembly.
17:02
Speaker 8: Democratic rights to protest. Well, why then did the police
17:05
Speaker 8: find it necessary to warn Jews not to attend the
17:08
Speaker 8: area of the Opera House unless they were concerned that
17:10
Speaker 8: some harm might come to them?
17:13
Speaker 6: Yeah.
17:13
Speaker 8: Why would the police draw that conclusion? What an appalling
17:16
Speaker 8: question by him. And You know, I have to say this, Shari,
17:22
Speaker 8: I think the bell is soon going to toll for
17:24
Speaker 8: the ABC. I think ordinary people have had enough of
17:27
Speaker 8: this anti-Semitism emanating from the national broadcaster. It's on exhibit
17:32
Speaker 8: every few days in one form or another. And I
17:35
Speaker 8: think serious people on the centre right of Australian politics
17:38
Speaker 8: have had enough of these people and the $ 1. 3 billion
17:41
Speaker 8: a year we give them every year to carry on
17:43
Speaker 8: their political crusades, in this case against Israel and to
17:47
Speaker 8: a lesser extent against Jewish people in general.
17:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:50
Speaker 2: And just to be clear, we're not accusing any ABC
17:52
Speaker 2: journalists of anti-Semitism at all.
17:54
Speaker 1: All right, let's return to.
17:56
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, not at all. No, we're definitely
17:58
Speaker 8: not doing that, Shari.
18:00
Speaker 1: We're definitely not. Let's return to Chris Bowen.
18:02
Speaker 2: And we learned today that despite the government spending billions
18:05
Speaker 2: to try and meet its 2030 renewable target, it seems
18:09
Speaker 2: we're actually not going to meet.
18:10
Speaker 11: It, Jo.
18:11
Speaker 13: Yeah, look, I don't think we were ever going to
18:12
Speaker 13: meet it, to be honest. I always said that we
18:14
Speaker 13: weren't going to meet it. It's probably failing to meet
18:17
Speaker 13: it by a bit more than a lot of people
18:19
Speaker 13: would like. I think for a lot of people, green
18:21
Speaker 13: hydrogen did seem too good to be true, but it
18:24
Speaker 13: was such an attractive prospect, if it did work, that
18:28
Speaker 13: I think people felt it was worth sort of rolling
18:30
Speaker 13: the dice on. The problem with wind and solar is
18:32
Speaker 13: that it can't generate enough kind of intensity of power
18:37
Speaker 13: to do things like fire up, you know, smelters or
18:39
Speaker 13: steel plants or whatever, or even, you know, do things like,
18:43
Speaker 13: you know, power huge boats or trains. And hydrogen had
18:47
Speaker 13: the potential to do that. I've actually driven a hydrogen-powered car,
18:50
Speaker 13: a prototype.
18:51
Speaker 3: Really?
18:52
Speaker 1: Apparently there's only one in Australia.
18:53
Speaker 11: Yeah, there is.
18:54
Speaker 12: And I drove it.
18:55
Speaker 1: You've driven it. There you go.
18:56
Speaker 2: You've got so much to get to. Let's keep moving on.
18:59
Speaker 1: I think, yeah. No surprises.
19:01
Speaker 2: I mean, Michael, you know, taxpayers are spending nearly $ 150
19:05
Speaker 2: million for Chris Bowen's role as COP president. And we
19:08
Speaker 2: also hear that Turkey's not really interested in Australia having
19:11
Speaker 2: a serious role, giving Bowen any serious role.
19:15
Speaker 8: Well, look, I don't want to be personal, but let's
19:17
Speaker 8: be frank. Chris Bowen is a fantasist. He's a Walter Mitty.
19:22
Speaker 8: He dreams of a green utopia. He dreams of these
19:26
Speaker 8: extraordinary developments, the... You know, as you've shown, we're going
19:30
Speaker 8: to be a green hydrogen superpower. This is just fantasy
19:35
Speaker 8: stuff at the Australian taxpayer's expense. And now, of course,
19:38
Speaker 8: we now we know we're not going to meet the target.
19:40
Speaker 8: And one of the reasons is because this has been
19:43
Speaker 8: done in such a hurry and such a mess with
19:46
Speaker 8: not enough coal-fired power stations staying open for long enough
19:49
Speaker 8: and he's been trying to hurry these renewable energy projects
19:53
Speaker 8: of course you know major purchase of electricity who are
19:56
Speaker 8: buying long-term contracts cannot afford to enter into contracts with
20:00
Speaker 8: with with You know, renewable energy entities, solar and wind,
20:06
Speaker 8: they don't know when they're going to commence. They don't
20:09
Speaker 8: know when they can commence operation. I don't know when
20:11
Speaker 8: I'm going to get my power. So, of course, the buyers,
20:14
Speaker 8: the main buyers of electricity are backing off until such
20:16
Speaker 8: time as there's certainty. This is one of many things
20:19
Speaker 8: this place got completely wrong. He's out there. He's lost
20:23
Speaker 8: the plot. He's a fantasist. He's a fantasist.
20:26
Speaker 2: I'm not going to argue with you, Michael. Definitely not
20:28
Speaker 2: going to argue with you there. Look, I want to
20:30
Speaker 2: turn to this story, Ed Sheeran. It's been big news
20:32
Speaker 2: that he's dropped rapper Macklemore. I don't even know Macklemore.
20:36
Speaker 2: After his pro-Palestinian comments. I mean, I don't know his music.
20:39
Speaker 1: I don't think I do. You have to sing me
20:41
Speaker 1: a song, Joe. I'd have to rap it to you, Sharon.
20:44
Speaker 1: You can do that. So, yes, as we saw in that.
20:47
Speaker 2: Image, not just his pro-Palestinian comments, but he dressed up
20:50
Speaker 2: as a Jew wearing a big nose at a 2014 concert.
20:53
Speaker 2: But outrageously, since Ed said he's not going to have
20:56
Speaker 2: him on tour, now Ed Sheeran's touring band and support
20:59
Speaker 2: acts have all pulled out in support of this.
21:02
Speaker 1: Macklemore, I mean, Joe, why can't concerts and productions work?
21:06
Speaker 1: just be a safe place to go free from these
21:09
Speaker 1: sort of arguments.
21:09
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is the thing.
21:10
Speaker 13: And it seems to be the people who are the
21:15
Speaker 13: most vicious and rigorous callers to platform people and cancel people.
21:22
Speaker 13: suddenly when someone on their side gets counselled, it's outrage
21:26
Speaker 13: and they have to, you know, stage a mass walkout.
21:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.
21:29
Speaker 13: It's a very Adelaide Writers' Festival.
21:31
Speaker 1: Isn't it?
21:32
Speaker 13: Before we get letters, I think it's Macklemore, and I
21:34
Speaker 13: couldn't sing you any.
21:35
Speaker 14: Of his songs either.
21:36
Speaker 1: I know Ed Sheeran. I love Ed Sheeran's songs.
21:39
Speaker 13: I don't know if it's Macklemore. And, again, we talk
21:43
Speaker 13: about the conflation between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism and pro-Palestinianism. You know,
21:51
Speaker 13: his comments... when he said, oh, look, this is not
21:53
Speaker 13: about you Jewish people, my beloved Jewish friends and everything.
21:57
Speaker 13: This is about the people of the Far East. Okay, whatever.
21:59
Speaker 13: But then when you pull out the big Jewish nose,
22:02
Speaker 13: like how is that not a classic anti-Semitic trope? And
22:06
Speaker 13: so I think, again, like with the tentacles comments by,
22:09
Speaker 13: you know, a certain Greens senator, a Greens member, you know,
22:14
Speaker 13: you just bell the cat.
22:16
Speaker 2: Can I tell you a funny story that we probably
22:18
Speaker 2: don't have time for? I went to a comedy show.
22:21
Speaker 2: in May this year, which is very rare. I never
22:22
Speaker 2: go to comedy shows.
22:23
Speaker 1: And I was nervous.
22:24
Speaker 2: I have to say that the comedian was going to
22:25
Speaker 2: make some pro-Palestinian remarks and I was going to have.
22:27
Speaker 1: To sit there through it in the audience.
22:29
Speaker 2: It was very near Albanese's electorate, very lefty area of Sydney.
22:33
Speaker 2: But then the comedian told a joke and he said
22:36
Speaker 2: that back in the old days, people expected politicians to
22:39
Speaker 2: have a stance on issues like Gaza, but now they
22:41
Speaker 2: expect comedians to.
22:43
Speaker 1: And he wasn't going to have a position. And it
22:45
Speaker 1: was actually pretty funny.
22:48
Speaker 2: Michael, to have someone say that. And I think I
22:51
Speaker 2: was the only one in the crowd that actually liked it.
22:52
Speaker 8: I don't think it's all that funny, to be honest, Shari.
22:57
Speaker 8: But anyway, if you like it, that's good.
22:59
Speaker 1: Maybe he told it better than I did. But the
23:01
Speaker 1: point is, good on Ed Sheeran.
23:02
Speaker 13: There are brave comedians doing amazing things. There's not usually
23:06
Speaker 13: ones in the inner suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney.
23:09
Speaker 8: Not good on Ed Sheeran. He knew this guy was
23:11
Speaker 8: an anti-Semite. Why did Sheeran have him on his undercard
23:14
Speaker 8: in the first place? He knew this guy's notorious history.
23:18
Speaker 8: And I've got to tell you, these days, anyone that
23:19
Speaker 8: gets up and says, I'm not anti-Jewish, I'm just anti-Zionist. Well,
23:23
Speaker 8: if you're anti-Zionist, you're basically saying, I want the Israeli,
23:26
Speaker 8: the homeland of the Jewish people destroyed. But I'm not anti-Semitic.
23:30
Speaker 8: I'm not anti-Jewish. I just want their homeland destroyed and
23:33
Speaker 8: for them all to be, you know, strewn over Europe
23:36
Speaker 8: as they were before 1947. That's what he's saying. So
23:40
Speaker 8: I don't believe any of this nonsense. I mean, more
23:42
Speaker 8: innocent people have been killed in Iran than this year
23:46
Speaker 8: that have been killed in Gaza in the last three years.
23:48
Speaker 8: And all he got up and said was, oh, Iran
23:50
Speaker 8: needs to be freed. We don't know who from, but
23:52
Speaker 8: there was no announcement from him condemning the IRGC at all.
23:56
Speaker 8: So this guy's just a shameless anti-Semite. He should never
23:59
Speaker 8: have been on the card in the first place. And
24:01
Speaker 8: a big tick to those stadium owners who've got the
24:04
Speaker 8: guts to kick these blokes off the stage and good
24:07
Speaker 8: on them.
24:08
Speaker 1: I think good on Ed Sheeran as well.
24:10
Speaker 2: And even if it doesn't make a difference because he's
24:11
Speaker 2: got 45 million followers. Everyone should send Ed Sheeran a
24:14
Speaker 2: message and say thank you just to give him a
24:16
Speaker 2: bit of strength.
24:17
Speaker 1: OK, Michael Kroger, Joe Hildebrand. He didn't do it.
24:20
Speaker 8: They weren't cancelled because of Ed Sheeran.
24:23
Speaker 11: Sure.
24:24
Speaker 8: Thank you for nothing.
24:25
Speaker 13: Take the credit.
24:26
Speaker 11: All right.
24:27
Speaker 12: Thanks, guys.
24:27
Speaker 1: Thank you.
24:28
Speaker 5: Thanks, Sharon.
24:29
Speaker 2: All right, Dave Sharma is standing by to come to
24:31
Speaker 2: us in a moment. I'm going to ask him about
24:33
Speaker 2: Rhys Muldoon, who gave him one of those horrible insults.
24:37
Speaker 2: But I want to first thank you all. for being
24:40
Speaker 2: so caring and loyal. Because just since our book came
24:43
Speaker 2: out yesterday, our publisher HarperCollins tells me that demand is
24:48
Speaker 2: unprecedented in this 48-hour window. HarperCollins say that they're now
24:53
Speaker 2: on their second reprint and Amazon and Booktopia have sold out.
24:57
Speaker 2: They are restocking right now, but you can still get
25:01
Speaker 2: the book immediately from Big W Online or QBD Books Online.
25:06
Speaker 2: So that's Big W or QBD Books Online. And, of course,
25:10
Speaker 2: in store at your favourite bookshop. I popped into Harry
25:13
Speaker 2: Hardog in Bondi Junction to sign some copies yesterday, and
25:17
Speaker 2: it is always great to support our special booksellers. And
25:20
Speaker 2: we've had reviews coming in from those who've been close
25:23
Speaker 2: to the massacre, who've read the book.
25:25
Speaker 1: Now, you remember Ed Bickerstaff. He was shot at Bondi.
25:29
Speaker 15: I was, like, bartending at the restaurant I work at
25:32
Speaker 15: in the Bondi Pavilion.
25:34
Speaker 1: Ed Bickerstaff is 22 years old. He just finished work.
25:39
Speaker 15: I walked past the bus stop on the pavement on
25:42
Speaker 15: Campbell Parade and I see the car parked there.
25:46
Speaker 1: As Ed was walking, he saw the shooters. He also
25:49
Speaker 1: saw guns.
25:50
Speaker 15: I'm walking, but I'm looking at them, a bit confused. And, like,
25:55
Speaker 15: I remember one of them definitely walks, like, in front
25:57
Speaker 15: of me and across me. One of them's, like, holding
26:00
Speaker 15: this big gun kind of to the sky on the side, um,
26:04
Speaker 15: I'm looking at him and then I hear like a
26:06
Speaker 15: set of gunshots.
26:11
Speaker 1: Ed then turns and runs for his life.
26:14
Speaker 15: At that moment, I just sprinted down the pavement just
26:17
Speaker 15: trying to get as far away as possible. I see
26:19
Speaker 15: her here next to the shots and that's when I
26:22
Speaker 15: feel something in my hip.
26:23
Speaker 1: You'd been shot.
26:24
Speaker 15: And I'd been shot, yeah.
26:28
Speaker 1: Well, Ed's mum, Julia, has read the book and here's
26:31
Speaker 1: what she had to say. Well, what a remarkable book
26:35
Speaker 1: it is.
26:36
Speaker 7: I devoured it in two sittings. It's sensitive without being
26:40
Speaker 7: overwhelming and it's incredibly readable.
26:45
Speaker 2: And if you were watching the show last night, you
26:47
Speaker 2: would have seen the photographer Peter Maher's widow, Virginia, say
26:51
Speaker 2: that she also loved and appreciated the book.
26:55
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm too nervous to ask you
26:57
Speaker 1: live on air. What do you think?
26:58
Speaker 8: Oh, I love it.
26:59
Speaker 1: It's... When I.
27:02
Speaker 6: It takes a special book for me to describe it
27:05
Speaker 6: as unputdownable.
27:07
Speaker 2: And this has been one of those in the last
27:08
Speaker 2: 48 hours for me.
27:11
Speaker 1: This means more to us than anything.
27:13
Speaker 2: And we're overwhelmed this week with support and love for
27:17
Speaker 2: our book. And a big thank you to all of
27:19
Speaker 2: you for caring and for helping us honour the memories
27:22
Speaker 2: of the victims and preserve.
27:24
Speaker 1: This seminal moment in Australian history.
27:28
Speaker 2: All right, let's turn now back to domestic politics, and
27:32
Speaker 2: it seems one of One Nation's weaknesses is, in fact,
27:35
Speaker 2: One Nation itself. Take a look at New South Wales
27:38
Speaker 2: leader Mike Newman at an anti-abortion rally.
27:40
Speaker 6: We want to make sure that same-sex... Oh, sorry, you go.
27:46
Speaker 9: Abortion is stopped.
27:47
Speaker 4: We want to make sure that people have the right
27:50
Speaker 4: to life.
27:51
Speaker 7: We will make sure there is right to life.
27:53
Speaker 4: We will make sure that everyone here.
27:57
Speaker 8: He's supported by a One Nation government that is working
27:59
Speaker 8: for you to make sure that babies live.
28:05
Speaker 2: So he said there he wants to make sure abortion
28:07
Speaker 2: is stopped. Well, my colleague Laura Jays pressed him on
28:10
Speaker 2: this today in an interview that was a train wreck
28:13
Speaker 2: for Mike Newman, and he tried to explain his position.
28:18
Speaker 5: But the thing is, going on.
28:20
Speaker 1: You're saying it happens.
28:21
Speaker 5: We have evidence to suggest that it has happened.
28:23
Speaker 1: From who?
28:24
Speaker 5: I was speaking to Joanna Howe, Dr Joanna Howe, who
28:27
Speaker 5: is all across this topic. We were having a discussion
28:30
Speaker 5: this morning on this very topic.
28:32
Speaker 1: So Joanna Howe is the authority here?
28:34
Speaker 16: No.
28:35
Speaker 5: The university that she is cited for that has shown
28:38
Speaker 5: that to be the case. How prevalent do you think
28:40
Speaker 5: sex-selective abortion is in New South Wales? Well, higher than
28:43
Speaker 5: you would imagine... And, you know, we're saying up to
28:46
Speaker 5: potentially 40% is going that way.
28:48
Speaker 1: 40% of all births?
28:50
Speaker 5: No, all abortions.
28:52
Speaker 6: Right.
28:52
Speaker 1: Which would be how many? Late term?
28:58
Speaker 5: Not so much. Sorry, there are some late term that
29:01
Speaker 5: are being... I don't have the exact numbers off the
29:03
Speaker 5: top of my head. I'll be brutally honest with you there.
29:07
Speaker 2: And live from Canberra now, the Shadow Assistant Minister for
29:09
Speaker 2: International Development, Dave Sharma.
29:11
Speaker 1: Dave, good to see you again. What did you think
29:14
Speaker 1: of Mike Newman's comments?
29:17
Speaker 2: You know, first that he was against abortion and then
29:19
Speaker 2: he was trying to clarify that it was about gender selection.
29:23
Speaker 17: Well, he seems to have flip-flopped, you know, multiple times
29:27
Speaker 17: in 24 hours. I mean, this is someone who's purporting
29:31
Speaker 17: to lead a political party which has aspirations to form
29:34
Speaker 17: government in New South Wales. You can't go and say
29:36
Speaker 17: one thing to a rally uh hoping that it's not
29:39
Speaker 17: going to be heard or it's a promise that you
29:40
Speaker 17: don't have to honour uh down the track and then
29:43
Speaker 17: when you're caught out try and recount what you said
29:46
Speaker 17: or try and contextualise and I mean you know I
29:48
Speaker 17: think people expect politicians including One Nation politicians to be
29:51
Speaker 17: consistent to stand up for their beliefs and principles um
29:55
Speaker 17: But I don't know what Mike Newman's are on this issue.
29:57
Speaker 17: I'm not sure what he actually believes and what he
29:59
Speaker 17: stands for.
30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
30:02
Speaker 2: Dave, another big story, of course, the comments of Rhys Muldoon,
30:06
Speaker 2: actor turned Labor staffer recently.
30:09
Speaker 1: He actually called you.
30:10
Speaker 2: A fake Jew some years ago on social media, but
30:14
Speaker 2: he was still given a job.
30:18
Speaker 17: Look, I find this astonishing. I mean, I've known about
30:22
Speaker 17: Rhys Muldoon's offensive comments recently, for some time, and I'm
30:25
Speaker 17: not in the Labor Party or the Labor movement, the
30:28
Speaker 17: idea that Anthony Albanese and his Chief of Staff, Tim Cartrell,
30:32
Speaker 17: and the National Secretary, Paul Erickson, didn't know about Rhys
30:35
Speaker 17: Muldoon's problematic past, to put it mildly, before they presumably
30:40
Speaker 17: recommended him for a job in a Tasmanian senator's office,
30:43
Speaker 17: just defies belief. The Labor Party is pretty good at
30:47
Speaker 17: vetting people. They knew he'd said these things and they
30:50
Speaker 17: thought he was still fit for employment in a taxpayer
30:53
Speaker 17: funded office. I think that's sickening.
30:55
Speaker 2: David, if you're not breaching any confidences, have you heard
30:58
Speaker 2: from this Tasmanian Senator.
31:01
Speaker 1: Richard Dowling?
31:03
Speaker 2: I did.
31:04
Speaker 17: Richard Dowling, he did call me to, you know, let
31:08
Speaker 17: me know that he'd acted promptly and to apologise for
31:10
Speaker 17: any offence caused. And I thought it was a thoroughly
31:13
Speaker 17: decent thing for him to do. I don't think he's
31:16
Speaker 17: to blame here, but I think, you know, this is
31:18
Speaker 17: someone who's just been elected to the Senate. He's new
31:20
Speaker 17: to the Senate and he's You know, he's new to
31:23
Speaker 17: the parliament. But there's a lot of, you know, staffing
31:26
Speaker 17: decisions in the Labor Party don't happen without the approval
31:30
Speaker 17: of people in the Prime Minister's office. That's how the
31:33
Speaker 17: Labor Party works. So, yeah, I don't think this was
31:35
Speaker 17: his decision. I don't think it's his to blame. But
31:38
Speaker 17: I think more, you know, experienced people in the Labor
31:40
Speaker 17: Party did know better and they decided to ignore their
31:44
Speaker 17: better instincts and employ him regardless.
31:46
Speaker 2: Well, we know that Rhys Muldoon and Albanese have been friends.
31:50
Speaker 2: The photograph that was front page of the papers today of,
31:54
Speaker 2: I can't remember who was kissing whose cheek, but a
31:56
Speaker 2: kiss on the cheek nonetheless.
31:58
Speaker 1: Now, the Prime Minister.
31:59
Speaker 17: He went to Anthony Albanese's wedding last year. He went
32:02
Speaker 17: to his wedding, exactly. I mean, you don't just ask
32:04
Speaker 17: random people to your wedding. You ask personal friends and relations.
32:08
Speaker 11: Yeah.
32:08
Speaker 6: Exactly.
32:08
Speaker 16: Exactly.
32:09
Speaker 2: Well, the Prime Minister was asked today if he provided
32:12
Speaker 2: a reference for Rhys Muldoon's Australia Day role. Now, he
32:16
Speaker 2: didn't specifically answer that question. Is there any evidence that
32:21
Speaker 2: he did provide a reference, Dave?
32:25
Speaker 17: Look, not that I've seen, but I think the fact
32:27
Speaker 17: that he didn't answer that question clearly, nor did he
32:31
Speaker 17: answer whether he provided references, I don't think, for Rhys
32:34
Speaker 17: Muldoon's employment in a senatorial office either. I don't think
32:37
Speaker 17: he answered that clearly either. And I think his failure
32:40
Speaker 17: to answer... I mean, Anthony Albanese is an experienced and
32:42
Speaker 17: wily politician. He doesn't want to be caught out in
32:46
Speaker 17: a blatant untruth, but the fact that he failed to
32:48
Speaker 17: answer a question, I think, begs further questions. You know,
32:52
Speaker 17: my suspicion would be that he did provide a reference.
32:55
Speaker 1: That would be your suspicion, that he did.
32:57
Speaker 2: Is this something the Coalition's going to keep pressing him
33:00
Speaker 2: on in question time?
33:02
Speaker 17: I believe so. I think we should.
33:05
Speaker 17: The problem with this Prime Minister is there's a target-rich environment.
33:08
Speaker 17: We've still got Marrickville Golf Club to look into. How
33:12
Speaker 17: is it that only one golf club in the country
33:14
Speaker 17: was invited to apply for this so-called grants scheme and
33:20
Speaker 17: only one in Anthony Albanese's electorate was? We were told
33:23
Speaker 17: by him that he didn't know about his honorary membership.
33:24
Speaker 17: We were told by him that he had nothing to
33:25
Speaker 17: do with the club. Yet all this footage and detail
33:28
Speaker 17: has emerged. Same thing with the Japanese Prime Minister's comments.
33:31
Speaker 17: For weeks he told us that. It didn't mean anything.
33:33
Speaker 17: I mean, this is just, this is a character trait now, right?
33:36
Speaker 17: This is a character trait. So all we can do
33:38
Speaker 17: is expose these inconsistencies, these falsehoods, and hope that the
33:44
Speaker 17: public draws the conclusions, the obvious conclusions.
33:46
Speaker 1: All right. Dave Sharma, thank you so much for joining us.
33:51
Speaker 2: Still to come, how some Indigenous children are being left
33:54
Speaker 2: in squalor because of a woke bureaucracy that refuses to
33:57
Speaker 2: remove them, even when they're at risk. and why tech
34:00
Speaker 2: leaders are warning about the rise of AI, Australia's leading
34:04
Speaker 2: fund manager joins me after the break.
34:10
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
34:11
Speaker 2: Prominent AI figures and experts are arguing that it's time
34:15
Speaker 2: to put on the brakes.
34:17
Speaker 6: It sounds like something that's not real, but I think
34:19
Speaker 6: it is frighteningly real, and it's easiest to understand it
34:22
Speaker 6: if you think about real things that happened two months ago.
34:25
Speaker 6: So two months ago, OpenAI agents, AIs, hacked into third-party
34:30
Speaker 6: infrastructure entirely at their own accord.
34:32
Speaker 4: If we take the right paths, then the chance of
34:34
Speaker 4: something going wrong is very low. If we take the
34:37
Speaker 4: wrong paths, then the chance of something going wrong could
34:40
Speaker 4: be even higher than that.
34:41
Speaker 15: I think it is unacceptable to be taking like a 10%
34:45
Speaker 15: chance of killing everybody by the end of the decade, obviously.
34:49
Speaker 2: But as people fear an uprising, some leaders say it's
34:52
Speaker 2: more important for the United States to win the AI
34:56
Speaker 2: race instead of China.
34:58
Speaker 1: We're leading China in AI.
34:59
Speaker 6: We're the most sophisticated country in the world.
35:02
Speaker 16: And frankly, I want to keep it that way because
35:04
Speaker 16: whoever wins AI wins.
35:07
Speaker 3: We've all seen this movie before, okay? We're 49 days
35:10
Speaker 3: out from an election. A catastrophe is created. The media
35:14
Speaker 3: gets spun up. Social media gets spun up. Everybody says
35:17
Speaker 3: we're all going to be, they literally said we're all
35:18
Speaker 3: going to be dead in 10 years. What the president
35:20
Speaker 3: is saying is you're not all going to be dead
35:21
Speaker 3: in 10 years, okay? That's a hoax.
35:25
Speaker 2: And now the tech industry is suggesting an independent oversight board,
35:29
Speaker 2: which the New York Post front page today said is
35:31
Speaker 2: filled with woke figures.
35:34
Speaker 1: Not a surprise, really.
35:35
Speaker 2: Joining me now is one of Australia's leading fund managers
35:38
Speaker 2: in global private markets with $ 4 billion under management, Pengana
35:42
Speaker 2: Capital Chief Executive Russell Pillimer.
35:44
Speaker 1: Russell, great to see you.
35:45
Speaker 14: Great to see you.
35:46
Speaker 1: So what are the actual.
35:48
Speaker 2: Risks here that the AI chief executives themselves are warning about?
35:53
Speaker 14: Yeah, so the AI chief executives, their mixed views about
35:58
Speaker 14: how they are actually approaching this and whether they're doing
36:02
Speaker 14: it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons. On
36:04
Speaker 14: the one hand, they say they're doing it because they're
36:07
Speaker 14: worrying about the future of humanity and that AI might
36:10
Speaker 14: go rogue and be able to act by itself and
36:14
Speaker 14: train itself to destroy humanity.
36:16
Speaker 1: Terrifying thought.
36:17
Speaker 14: Terrifying thought. However, you'll see that they've got people lining
36:23
Speaker 14: up against them who say that the reason why these
36:26
Speaker 14: AI leaders, and in particular, it's the leaders of Anthropic,
36:30
Speaker 14: Dario Modi, and OpenAI, Sam Altman, who are pushing this
36:34
Speaker 14: more Dario than Sam. And their opponents are saying the
36:40
Speaker 14: reason why they're doing this is because they are the
36:42
Speaker 14: leaders in the space and they want to continue to
36:46
Speaker 14: have that leading position. So if you impose some sort
36:49
Speaker 14: of regulatory oversight, then what that does is it slows
36:53
Speaker 14: everybody down.
36:54
Speaker 1: Those coming up behind.
36:55
Speaker 14: Absolutely. And they have a huge advantage. It's like that
36:59
Speaker 14: F1 car, you know, when there's a crash on the
37:03
Speaker 14: track and you put the safety car in front, it
37:05
Speaker 14: slows everybody down. Nobody can change position. And that's really
37:08
Speaker 14: what they're aiming for.
37:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
37:11
Speaker 14: And their positions will become even more unbeatable if they
37:15
Speaker 14: do that. So it's mixed on that. The real issue
37:20
Speaker 14: here is can AI actually interact with the real world?
37:24
Speaker 14: So it's one thing to be able to engage in
37:26
Speaker 14: cyber hacking and its dangers with that. But can they
37:30
Speaker 14: really destroy the world? Can they create viruses? Can they
37:33
Speaker 14: create robots which will go around shooting people? We're a
37:37
Speaker 14: long way away from that, and that seems to me
37:39
Speaker 14: to be fear-mongering at this point in time. So a
37:44
Speaker 14: lot of discussion on this.
37:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fascinating and worrying at the same time.
37:48
Speaker 1: I want to turn to the economy and the housing market.
37:51
Speaker 2: We kind of speak about this every week, but data
37:54
Speaker 2: from the Housing Industry Association is showing that new home
37:57
Speaker 2: sales are down by 20%. In just three months. Now,
38:02
Speaker 2: the Housing Minister, Claire O'Neill, is rejecting this. But look,
38:05
Speaker 2: this is the data and.
38:06
Speaker 1: We can all see it with the clearance rates each week.
38:10
Speaker 14: Yes. So what Claire O'Neill has done is she's selected
38:13
Speaker 14: her own statistic and she's portraying that as the best
38:17
Speaker 14: statistic to describe what's going on. And that statistic is
38:21
Speaker 14: new home approvals. Now, it's the wrong statistic to be
38:25
Speaker 14: using because what that is is when you go to council,
38:29
Speaker 14: you get an approval. Now, anybody who's gone to get
38:33
Speaker 14: a housing approval, whether you're an individual or a developer,
38:36
Speaker 14: would know that you go many months in advance until
38:38
Speaker 14: you get the approval. So this is stale data. It's
38:42
Speaker 14: not what's happening at the moment. But it's been portrayed
38:45
Speaker 14: as being the current data. It's wrong.
38:49
Speaker 13: Very misleading.
38:49
Speaker 14: The data is what it is. And it's, you know,
38:54
Speaker 14: it's unmistakable.
38:56
Speaker 1: Are you worried about the economy and another great rise?
38:59
Speaker 11: Absolutely.
38:59
Speaker 14: You know, every week we say we're ringing the bell
39:03
Speaker 14: that there's this danger around the corner. The government needs
39:06
Speaker 14: to act. The government must not pretend that everything's OK,
39:10
Speaker 14: because sooner or later, you know, it will become very
39:14
Speaker 14: apparent that it's not. And with another one or even
39:17
Speaker 14: two and maybe even three now rate rises, it's a
39:21
Speaker 14: very dangerous time for us. So I must say, ringing
39:24
Speaker 14: that alarm bell, the government needs to act. It's their
39:27
Speaker 14: responsibility to the community to act.
39:29
Speaker 1: Let's hope they listen. Russell, thank you very much.
39:33
Speaker 14: Thank you.
39:34
Speaker 2: Coming up on the program, 50 calls to police in
39:37
Speaker 2: a house full of neglected children.
39:39
Speaker 1: Why was this swept under the rug?
39:41
Speaker 2: And President Trump's bid to ban mail-in ballots before the
39:44
Speaker 2: midterms backfires.
39:46
Speaker 1: That's after the break.
39:51
Speaker 2: Welcome back with the United States is preparing to sell
39:53
Speaker 2: a huge bomb package worth 2.8 billion US dollars to Israel.
39:58
Speaker 2: It includes 40,000 bombs weighing 2,000 pounds each and 20,000
40:03
Speaker 2: penetrator warheads, making it one of the largest ammunition sales
40:07
Speaker 2: in years. It's important America gives Israel military support. It's
40:11
Speaker 2: on the front line against terror and important it does
40:14
Speaker 2: so while Trump is still in office. Joining me now
40:17
Speaker 2: to discuss this and more is Washington correspondent Jono Kersley. Jono,
40:20
Speaker 2: great to see you. Look, will this deal face opposition
40:24
Speaker 2: from Democrats and even some Republicans?
40:30
Speaker 1: It does, and it does.
40:31
Speaker 16: Because of the amount it costs, the concerns about what
40:34
Speaker 16: the United States has in its armoury and whether the
40:37
Speaker 16: United States should be keeping more for itself. And just
40:40
Speaker 16: the sheer size of volume that this proposed sale is
40:44
Speaker 16: going to send towards Israel. It has upset some in
40:48
Speaker 16: the Republican camp, some in the Democrat camp, too, do
40:51
Speaker 16: not want to see as many go through. It's interesting
40:54
Speaker 16: the timing that this is being discussed, too, given that
40:57
Speaker 16: it is just a matter of seven weeks out from
40:59
Speaker 16: the midterm elections, whether the Republicans are trying to cause
41:03
Speaker 16: some angst in some of those more left-leaning areas, particularly
41:08
Speaker 16: in Michigan, and open up some division around there in
41:11
Speaker 16: that crucial Senate race. But look, There is no doubting
41:14
Speaker 16: the size of this going towards Israel, multi-billion dollars, 2,000-pound bombs.
41:21
Speaker 13: Tucker Carlson, though.
41:22
Speaker 16: Has been one of the biggest critics out of all
41:24
Speaker 16: of this, suggesting there's no need for it, that it
41:27
Speaker 16: is more than was used during World War II and
41:31
Speaker 16: one of the largest airstrikes in that instance, and trying
41:35
Speaker 16: to rail his audience against this move from the President
41:38
Speaker 16: of the United States. But it's seemingly important for Donald Trump,
41:42
Speaker 16: seemingly important, very important for Benjamin Netanyahu too.
41:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
41:46
Speaker 2: And I'm sure Tucker just chooses his own facts rather
41:49
Speaker 2: than sticks to actual objective accounting. The Supreme Court, meanwhile,
41:54
Speaker 2: has shut down Donald Trump's bid to block mail-in voting.
41:57
Speaker 2: The President blasted the Supreme Court. He called it a
42:00
Speaker 2: big loss for Republicans in America itself. You know, accusations
42:05
Speaker 2: of cheating, etc., So how will this impact, though, more importantly,
42:10
Speaker 2: on the midterms?
42:13
Speaker 16: Well, what this was designed to do, what President Trump
42:16
Speaker 16: was wanting to do, was change the way that the
42:18
Speaker 16: US Postal Service handles and deals with mail-in ballots, from
42:21
Speaker 16: checking names against rolls to putting barcodes on envelopes. And
42:25
Speaker 16: he wanted it in place for the midterms. He wants
42:27
Speaker 16: tighter controls around mail-in voting. He has not been a
42:30
Speaker 16: huge fan of it. He does not like it and
42:33
Speaker 16: has been trying to restrict it. And this was one
42:36
Speaker 16: of those measures, one of those moves. But ultimately, it
42:40
Speaker 16: was struck down by a court in Boston. It was
42:42
Speaker 16: then struck down by the Supreme Court. And there were
42:45
Speaker 16: a couple of justices, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Barrett-Cohen, who
42:49
Speaker 16: are cited against President Trump, both justices who President Trump
42:53
Speaker 16: had nominated to the Supreme Court in his first term.
42:56
Speaker 16: And he said to them that they weren't the people
42:59
Speaker 16: that he interviewed back at that time, that they were
43:01
Speaker 16: instead now shells of themselves. He's obviously very outspoken when
43:07
Speaker 16: he's being critical, when he's angry, and that's what we're
43:09
Speaker 16: seeing here. But how it is going to impact the midterms, well,
43:12
Speaker 16: it essentially means Donald Trump's plan is not going to
43:14
Speaker 16: go ahead. So mail-in ballots are going to proceed as
43:16
Speaker 16: they have done In the 2024 presidential election and the
43:21
Speaker 16: 2022 midterm elections, the Trump administration still says it's looking
43:24
Speaker 16: at avenues to try and make some moves and tighten
43:27
Speaker 16: up some controls. But in reality, the time now is
43:30
Speaker 16: very much running out for them. But I think you'll
43:33
Speaker 16: see them still talking about voting integrity issues from now until, well,
43:38
Speaker 16: likely after the midterms.
43:40
Speaker 2: Another attempt to impeach President Trump. Meanwhile, Jonathan, it's fallen flat.
43:44
Speaker 2: I mean, this vote was pushed by Democrat Al Green.
43:47
Speaker 2: It divided the Democrats because, you know, many of them
43:50
Speaker 2: voted with the Republicans.
43:52
Speaker 1: To kill the resolution, which is interesting. Why would so
43:55
Speaker 1: many go against it?
43:59
Speaker 16: Because I don't think they want the talk now, essentially.
44:01
Speaker 16: What Al Green did a matter of 48 hours or so,
44:05
Speaker 16: less than 48 hours ago now on the House floor,
44:07
Speaker 16: the first time that Congress had sat since the beginning
44:10
Speaker 16: of August. was a stunt. That's precisely what it was.
44:13
Speaker 16: He is not running again at these midterm elections. He
44:16
Speaker 16: was trying to create himself a headline, and in that
44:18
Speaker 16: he did, because he was never going to have the
44:20
Speaker 16: numbers anyway. So there was no point in trying to
44:24
Speaker 16: proceed with it unless they had been convinced Republicans were
44:27
Speaker 16: going to flip their way. And while that's not going
44:29
Speaker 16: to happen, particularly... when you've got these crucial elections happening
44:33
Speaker 16: in just seven weeks' time. But what was surprising was
44:36
Speaker 16: you had 18 Democrats directly sided with Republicans, more than
44:40
Speaker 16: 40 more voting present, basically indicating they don't want to
44:43
Speaker 16: take a stance on it, but handing the win to
44:46
Speaker 16: the Republicans. It's not a great look for the Democrats
44:49
Speaker 16: because there is a lot of talk around what they
44:53
Speaker 16: could do on impeachment measures. if indeed they do get
44:56
Speaker 16: control of the House in January after the November midterms.
44:58
Speaker 16: There's been a lot of talk that Democrats, if they
45:00
Speaker 16: get the majority, they will move to do something. So
45:02
Speaker 16: now there are going to be questions for those 18
45:05
Speaker 16: and for those 40-odd who voted present as to what
45:08
Speaker 16: they would do then in that circumstance and why would
45:11
Speaker 16: that circumstance be different. What you're seeing here, it's all politics,
45:15
Speaker 16: it's all posture playing. The Democrats don't want to have
45:17
Speaker 16: the conversation around impeachment now. They want to wait to
45:20
Speaker 16: see if they get control of the House and do
45:22
Speaker 16: it then.
45:23
Speaker 2: I mean, it'll get a lot messier, US politics. Jonathan Kersley,
45:26
Speaker 2: thank you very much. Coming up after the break, at-risk
45:30
Speaker 2: children left to live in squalor. Are they victims of
45:33
Speaker 2: a woke bureaucracy? The journalists who uncovered this will join
45:36
Speaker 2: us next. A new report in The Australian today has
45:43
Speaker 2: exposed how WA's child protection system is failing children. It
45:48
Speaker 2: exposed devastating accounts of police being called more than 50
45:52
Speaker 2: times to a house where abandoned Indigenous children were fending
45:55
Speaker 2: for themselves in horrific conditions. The report said government authorities
46:00
Speaker 2: were alerted dozens of times, but no action was taken,
46:04
Speaker 2: not at least until the house was cleaned up yesterday.
46:07
Speaker 2: And this, of course, this is not just contained to WA,
46:11
Speaker 2: with concerns across the country of Indigenous children being neglected
46:15
Speaker 2: within some communities. And joining me now is the journalist
46:19
Speaker 2: uncovering this, the Australian's Ros Thomas. Ros, well done on
46:23
Speaker 2: your reporting.
46:24
Speaker 1: It's so important. Can you tell us about the conditions
46:27
Speaker 1: that these children were living in?
46:29
Speaker 7: Yes, we entered the house and discovered in a putrid
46:33
Speaker 7: bedroom and a terrible smelling house that there were big
46:37
Speaker 7: piles of makeshift bedding that the kids were using to sleep.
46:41
Speaker 7: Dog excreta littered all over the floor, stray dog wandering
46:45
Speaker 7: in and out of the house and Piles of refuge
46:48
Speaker 7: in the corner, old food scraps and food refuse piled
46:51
Speaker 7: up in one corner of the kitchen. It was an
46:55
Speaker 7: incredible sight and an incredible smell and I certainly haven't
46:59
Speaker 7: been in a house that filthy or that putrid or
47:01
Speaker 7: that squalid in my career.
47:04
Speaker 1: And the children were in those conditions, Roz?
47:07
Speaker 7: Yes, we had at least four that we saw, a
47:11
Speaker 7: young boy cousin who was five, his cousin who was seven,
47:15
Speaker 7: another boy, two sisters, 11 and 14.
47:19
Speaker 1: I had spent.
47:19
Speaker 7: Obviously a lot of time in the headland in the
47:21
Speaker 7: last couple of weeks. And so I've got to know
47:23
Speaker 7: these kids in particular. And then all of the other
47:25
Speaker 7: kids that come in and out of that house at night.
47:28
Speaker 7: And I asked the two sisters whether they were okay,
47:32
Speaker 7: whether they needed anything, whether they were hungry. And of course,
47:36
Speaker 7: terrified that I might remove them or take them away
47:39
Speaker 7: from their parents or that they might get their parents
47:41
Speaker 7: into trouble, all they would do is nod or shake
47:43
Speaker 7: their head and the older sister would always grab for
47:46
Speaker 7: the younger sister's hand and I just wanted to pick
47:50
Speaker 7: them up and bring them home.
47:51
Speaker 1: Oh, Roz, it's so hard, so sad.
47:53
Speaker 2: And what excuse has the department given for failing these children?
47:59
Speaker 7: Well, the department, of course, has given us no excuses
48:02
Speaker 7: because they haven't admitted that they're at fault in terms
48:04
Speaker 7: of what is happening at Frisbee Court. But what the
48:07
Speaker 7: police on the ground have told us is that they
48:09
Speaker 7: have attended this house at least 50 times, more than
48:13
Speaker 7: 50 times, in fact, in the last nine months, and
48:16
Speaker 7: that there have been dozens of referrals to the DCP
48:20
Speaker 7: to say that there are children at risk.
48:22
Speaker 11: Living in the house.
48:24
Speaker 7: Children that are not only at risk of neglect, but
48:27
Speaker 7: also at risk of the predators who know where they are,
48:29
Speaker 7: the drug dealers who know where they are, violence. You know,
48:34
Speaker 7: you have a situation where you have a house full
48:36
Speaker 7: of abandoned children. You know that it's an urgent case
48:38
Speaker 7: for government to look into. And is this endemic across
48:42
Speaker 7: the country? We know what we've seen.
48:43
Speaker 16: In Alice Springs.
48:45
Speaker 7: Headlands seem to be a particularly bad case. And each
48:49
Speaker 7: day I'm uncovering, you know, more and more horrifying stories
48:52
Speaker 7: from Police officers that are coming to me from DCP
48:56
Speaker 7: insiders who are coming to me from former directors of
49:00
Speaker 7: the DCP, four former directors of the DCP have come
49:04
Speaker 7: to me to talk about what they are seeing, how
49:06
Speaker 7: appalled they are and what we might do to fix it.
49:09
Speaker 2: I mean, this has become a big political issue. It
49:12
Speaker 2: was in WA State Parliament. The minister, after your story today,
49:16
Speaker 2: the minister had to go out there and did media.
49:19
Speaker 1: Outside the front of the House.
49:20
Speaker 2: But, I mean, what you seem to be reporting is
49:23
Speaker 2: that there's this reluctance to remove any Indigenous children, no
49:28
Speaker 2: matter how at risk they are or how vulnerable they are,
49:31
Speaker 2: because they don't want to be accused of separating them
49:34
Speaker 2: from their parents.
49:37
Speaker 7: I think what I've been told over and over by
49:39
Speaker 7: the elders in the Port Hedland community is that the
49:42
Speaker 7: DCP is so terrified of being seen to create another
49:45
Speaker 7: stolen generation, they're very reluctant to go in and remove
49:49
Speaker 7: children at serious risk of neglect and serious risk of harm.
49:52
Speaker 7: And the problem with that is that Aboriginal elders have
49:55
Speaker 7: said today, in particular a senior elder by the name
49:58
Speaker 7: of Doris Eaton, Aunty Doris has said that this is
50:02
Speaker 7: not about taking children kids away from good parents. She
50:06
Speaker 7: wants the parents of the neglectful parents of these children
50:10
Speaker 7: to be charged with neglect and for those children to
50:13
Speaker 7: be removed and for us to find another name to
50:17
Speaker 7: call what's going to happen when we need to remove,
50:19
Speaker 7: you know, vulnerable children from unfit parents because it shouldn't
50:22
Speaker 7: be the stolen generation.
50:24
Speaker 1: No, exactly. I mean, your reporting is incredible.
50:27
Speaker 2: So you've got another story coming out tomorrow.
50:29
Speaker 1: Is that right?
50:30
Speaker 16: Yes, I have.
50:31
Speaker 7: I've I've been waiting to speak to this particular elder,
50:34
Speaker 7: Doris Eaton, for the last month. I've been up and
50:37
Speaker 7: down to South Headland since June the 12th, since I
50:41
Speaker 7: broke the story of the Indigenous grandmother, Dorothy Papertalk. whose
50:46
Speaker 7: three grandies, as she calls them, her three sunshines, were
50:49
Speaker 7: murdered in a meth-fuelled rampage by her mother Margaret in 2022.
50:55
Speaker 7: But as a result of that particular case, Margaret went
50:59
Speaker 7: to jail for life. But the internal DCP review of
51:02
Speaker 7: that case and the DCP's involvement in that case landed
51:06
Speaker 7: in my lap in June and I've been looking at
51:09
Speaker 7: it ever since.
51:10
Speaker 2: With such important reporting, Ros, it was a big front
51:13
Speaker 2: page in The Australian today. Thank you for all your
51:16
Speaker 2: hard work and for coming on to talk about it.
51:19
Speaker 7: My pleasure.
51:19
Speaker 2: And thanks everyone for your company tonight.
51:22
Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow at eight and here's Paul Murray.