Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Joan Gay Croft Pt. Two

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Joan Gay Croft Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

0:27
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two
0:29
Speaker 1: of our series about the disappearance of Joan gay Croft. Robin,
0:33
Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on what we
0:35
Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode.
0:38
Speaker 2: Well, this is a very unique mystery. Joan gay Croft
0:40
Speaker 2: was four years old and she lived with her father, stepmother,
0:44
Speaker 2: and her half sister Jerry, in the small town of Woodward, Oklahoma.
0:48
Speaker 2: In April of nineteen forty seven, but the area would
0:50
Speaker 2: get hit with the worst tornado in the history of
0:53
Speaker 2: Oklahoma up until that point, which caused a ton of
0:56
Speaker 2: property damage and killed a bunch of people in total,
1:00
Speaker 2: caused a death of one hundred and eighty one people
1:02
Speaker 2: in total, including her stepmother, cleed Up and her father,
1:06
Speaker 2: Olan was seriously injured and had to be taken to
1:08
Speaker 2: a hospital in Oklahoma City. But in the meantime, Joan
1:11
Speaker 2: gay and her half sister Jerry were taken to the
1:14
Speaker 2: basement of the hospital in Woodward where they were tending
1:17
Speaker 2: to people. But sometime in the middle of the night,
1:20
Speaker 2: two men dressed in khakis came in and asked for
1:23
Speaker 2: Joan gay by name, and then proceeded to take her
1:26
Speaker 2: out of the basement and when a nurse stopped them,
1:28
Speaker 2: They just said that they were taking her to see
1:29
Speaker 2: her father at his hospital in Oklahoma City. But of
1:33
Speaker 2: course she never arrived and has never been seen again.
1:36
Speaker 2: And there are just so many unanswered questions like why
1:39
Speaker 2: did they go after Joan Gay, why did they leave
1:41
Speaker 2: her half sister Jerry behind, And if it was, say,
1:44
Speaker 2: a child predator, why would they decide in the aftermath
1:48
Speaker 2: of a tornado to just decide to go and abduct
1:50
Speaker 2: a child so no one could figure out what happened.
1:53
Speaker 2: There were a couple of unidentified children who were killed
1:56
Speaker 2: by the tornado and were never claimed, but they were
1:59
Speaker 2: viewed by her surviving relatives and they did not believe
2:02
Speaker 2: any of them were Joan Gay. Life pretty much moved on.
2:05
Speaker 2: Her father, Olin, got remarried and had more children, and
2:08
Speaker 2: he never stopped looking for Joan Gay before he died
2:11
Speaker 2: during the nineteen eighties, but the case's return of the
2:13
Speaker 2: spotlight after a while. It was featured on Unsolved Mysteries,
2:16
Speaker 2: and in nineteen ninety nine, a writer named Robert Lee,
2:20
Speaker 2: who had done extensive coverage of this case, got an
2:22
Speaker 2: email from a woman who claimed that she was Joan
2:25
Speaker 2: Gay Craft and that she was now a grown woman
2:28
Speaker 2: living under a new name, and she even alleged that
2:30
Speaker 2: her father was aware of what actually happened to her
2:33
Speaker 2: and knew that she had been living in Oklahoma City
2:35
Speaker 2: on and off since the fifties. And Lee wanted to
2:38
Speaker 2: arrange a meeting with her, and she agreed to it.
2:40
Speaker 2: But after a while, the email stopped coming, the email
2:43
Speaker 2: address stopped functioning, and they were never able to track
2:46
Speaker 2: this woman down and figure out if she was legitimate.
2:48
Speaker 2: So here we are, over seventy five years later, and
2:52
Speaker 2: we still don't know what happened to Joan Gay or
2:54
Speaker 2: why she was taken outside of that hospital basement.
3:00
Speaker 1: Most listeners probably know that Robin loves picking out older
3:03
Speaker 1: cases to cover on both The Trail Went Cold and
3:05
Speaker 1: the Path Went Chilei, because it's fascinating to explore just
3:09
Speaker 1: how different the world was several decades ago. Quite simply,
3:13
Speaker 1: many of the cold cases of yesteryear would not have
3:16
Speaker 1: happened with our current technology today. If a small town
3:19
Speaker 1: like Woodward, Oklahoma, was in the path of an F
3:22
Speaker 1: five tornado, there would be so many resources available to
3:25
Speaker 1: give them advance warning in order to prepare for it.
3:29
Speaker 1: But this was nineteen forty seven, and there just happened
3:32
Speaker 1: to be a nationwide telephone operators strike going on at
3:35
Speaker 1: the time, so the residents of Woodward were completely oblivious
3:39
Speaker 1: about what was about to transpire. In order to assist
3:43
Speaker 1: with the emergency rescue efforts following the tornado, eight telephone
3:46
Speaker 1: operators decided to return to work while the strike was
3:49
Speaker 1: still going on, but believe it or not, they wound
3:52
Speaker 1: up being dismissed by their union. I think the fact
3:56
Speaker 1: that no one in Woodward knew the storm was going
3:58
Speaker 1: to transpire is a very important detail and makes you
4:02
Speaker 1: wonder about the potential motives of the two men who
4:04
Speaker 1: took Joan Gay from the hospital basement. Had these guys
4:08
Speaker 1: been planning to abduct her before the tornado arrived, or
4:11
Speaker 1: were they just opportunists who decided to take advantage of
4:14
Speaker 1: the situation. So, on one hand, a dangerous, chaotic environment
4:18
Speaker 1: in which there are several witnesses is not an ideal
4:21
Speaker 1: circumstance in which to abduct a child without being seen.
4:25
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, the chaos caused so many
4:27
Speaker 1: distractions that they were able to snatch a child right
4:31
Speaker 1: under everyone's noses and get away with it. I mean,
4:34
Speaker 1: the hospital nurses flat out asked these two men why
4:37
Speaker 1: they were taking Joan Gay out of the basement, and
4:39
Speaker 1: when they said they were taking her to another hospital
4:42
Speaker 1: to see family, the nurses just took these guys at
4:44
Speaker 1: their were and let them go. I mean, you can
4:48
Speaker 1: criticize the nurses for not doing more to stop these guys,
4:50
Speaker 1: but in fairness, they were also dealing with a million
4:54
Speaker 1: other things at the time. So you can see how
4:56
Speaker 1: Joan Gay might have slipped through the cracks.
5:00
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, And it's almost as if she didn't quote
5:03
Speaker 3: slip through the cracks, because these men came in and
5:06
Speaker 3: purposely addressed asking for either Joan Gay or Joan and
5:10
Speaker 3: her sister. And so we know that when they came in,
5:14
Speaker 3: they had more of an authoritative stance. They had her name,
5:17
Speaker 3: they had a mission they were on, they were dressed
5:19
Speaker 3: in more militaristic clothing. And so to me, if you're
5:23
Speaker 3: a nurse in the middle of this kind of triage
5:25
Speaker 3: emergency situation, you have some children who don't have their
5:29
Speaker 3: parents with them, and you have someone who comes to say, hey,
5:33
Speaker 3: I know this child by name. I'm well put together
5:35
Speaker 3: and look like I'm part of either military response emergency response,
5:40
Speaker 3: and I'm going to take her to go see her father.
5:42
Speaker 3: How did they know her name? How did they know
5:44
Speaker 3: her father was elsewhere? Those kinds of things add credibility
5:47
Speaker 3: to their stance and make it such a bizarre case
5:51
Speaker 3: because could they have truly been just opportunistic and known
5:54
Speaker 3: all of that information? And how would they have known
5:57
Speaker 3: that a tornado was coming? So it's all very very bizarre.
6:00
Speaker 2: And this was long before the Air of Stranger Dangers,
6:03
Speaker 2: so I'm sure the nurses weren't thinking very evil things
6:07
Speaker 2: about these men and how they might have had ulterior
6:09
Speaker 2: motives for taking Joan Gay away. I'm actually currently working
6:13
Speaker 2: on a Trail Went Cold episode about a group of
6:15
Speaker 2: kids who went missing in nineteen fifty one, and they
6:18
Speaker 2: interview a lot of people from that time period saying
6:20
Speaker 2: that we didn't know what child preaditors were. We were
6:23
Speaker 2: not familiar with the term molest or sexually abused. So
6:27
Speaker 2: that's why their disappearance was not investigated as a potential abduction,
6:31
Speaker 2: because they just were living in such a sheltered world
6:34
Speaker 2: that they didn't know that some people like to kidnap
6:37
Speaker 2: kids in order to harm them. So I'm pretty sure
6:39
Speaker 2: the nurses weren't thinking that about the men just suddenly
6:42
Speaker 2: showing up in this basement and taking Joan Gay away.
6:44
Speaker 2: They probably just thought they were telling the truth and
6:47
Speaker 2: that they were going to reunite her with her family.
6:51
Speaker 2: So let's delve into potential theories about why Joan Gay
6:54
Speaker 2: was taken. We're going to make a connection to he
6:56
Speaker 2: had another story which was featured on Unsolved Mysteries, and
6:59
Speaker 2: that's the notorious Georgia Tan, a child trafficker who ran
7:03
Speaker 2: an illegal adoption agency in Memphis called the Tennessee Children's
7:07
Speaker 2: Home Society during this time period. Over the course of
7:10
Speaker 2: her life, Tan was believed to have been responsible for
7:12
Speaker 2: stealing over five thousand children, many of whom were from
7:16
Speaker 2: impoverished families, and she then used her agency to adopt
7:19
Speaker 2: them out to wealthy, out of state families at high prices.
7:23
Speaker 2: I have no idea if Tan ever stole any children
7:25
Speaker 2: from Oklahoma, and I seriously doubt that she has any
7:28
Speaker 2: personal involvement in this case. But it's possible that Joan
7:31
Speaker 2: Gay could have been the victim of another child trafficking
7:34
Speaker 2: ring which was just like Tan's. They decided to take
7:37
Speaker 2: advantage of the chaos and Woodward to abduct a young
7:40
Speaker 2: child who was not in the company of her parents
7:42
Speaker 2: and then illegally adopted her out to another family. However,
7:46
Speaker 2: the two men who entered the hospital basement apparently asked
7:49
Speaker 2: for Joan Gay by name, which seems to indicate that
7:52
Speaker 2: they knew who she was, and Joan Gay would be
7:54
Speaker 2: quite an unusual target for an illegal adoption ring. The
7:58
Speaker 2: reason Georgia Tan abducted children from poor families was because
8:01
Speaker 2: they did not have the money or resources to fight back.
8:04
Speaker 2: But the Crofts were one of the most prominent families
8:07
Speaker 2: in Woodward and would definitely not take things lying down
8:10
Speaker 2: if they knew that their child was being stolen and
8:12
Speaker 2: adopted out.
8:13
Speaker 3: And what's interesting too, there's not like there was a
8:15
Speaker 3: ransom here or something that let's say they were watching
8:18
Speaker 3: the Croft family, then this tornado hits, they realized that
8:22
Speaker 3: she separated from her dad, and they go get her
8:24
Speaker 3: and then demand something for her return. So again, how
8:29
Speaker 3: did they know that her dad wasn't with her? How
8:31
Speaker 3: did they know she'd be located in that basement when
8:33
Speaker 3: people were dispersed all over the city because things were
8:37
Speaker 3: just destroyed everywhere. It's very complex when you step back
8:41
Speaker 3: and you say, where were these guys even coming from.
8:44
Speaker 3: Had they been watching the Croft family, or.
8:46
Speaker 1: Is it possible that they could have just stepped in
8:50
Speaker 1: and there was this, all of this chaos surrounding this
8:53
Speaker 1: tornado and seen an opportunity to be able to abduct
8:57
Speaker 1: a child, and maybe they just stepped in and they
9:00
Speaker 1: heard somebody refer to her as Joan while they were watching,
9:04
Speaker 1: or somebody close referred to her as Joan and they said, okay,
9:07
Speaker 1: well that will be our target. Maybe their idea was
9:09
Speaker 1: just to target any child, and she fit the criteria
9:13
Speaker 1: of what they were going for, and they just took
9:16
Speaker 1: advantage of the chaos and all of the injuries of
9:20
Speaker 1: the death that surrounded.
9:21
Speaker 2: This I definitely think that's possible that they just overheard
9:25
Speaker 2: Joan Gay's name, or if they lived in the area,
9:28
Speaker 2: maybe they just knew who Joan Gay was and they
9:30
Speaker 2: didn't plan on specifically abducting her, but then they recognized
9:34
Speaker 2: her in the basement and realized that, oh, she's not
9:36
Speaker 2: with her family anywhere, she's unattended. This will be the
9:39
Speaker 2: child that we're going to steal.
9:42
Speaker 1: Of course, since olin Croft had money, another theory which
9:46
Speaker 1: was pushed forward, is that Joon Kay's abduction was around
9:48
Speaker 1: some kidnapping. It's possible these men had been planning to
9:52
Speaker 1: kidnap her for some time, and it's just a weird
9:55
Speaker 1: coincidence that the town was hit by an F five
9:57
Speaker 1: tornado right before they made their move. However, unless they
10:01
Speaker 1: were watching the family the entire time, it's unclear how
10:05
Speaker 1: the kidnappers could have known that Joan Gay was in
10:08
Speaker 1: the hospital basement, like Ashley just said. And here's another
10:11
Speaker 1: important question, how could they even be certain that anyone
10:14
Speaker 1: from her family was still alive in order to pay
10:16
Speaker 1: a ransom. Remember, Olan was left critically injured by the
10:20
Speaker 1: tornado and his wife was killed instantly. At this point,
10:24
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone could be one hundred percent certain
10:26
Speaker 1: that Olin was going to pull through. And in fact,
10:29
Speaker 1: some newspaper articles which were being published following the tornado
10:33
Speaker 1: mistakenly listed Ollencroft's name among the deceased victims. And let's
10:38
Speaker 1: not forget that Olan's house was destroyed and the entire
10:41
Speaker 1: town had just been obliterated. Even if Olin was alive
10:44
Speaker 1: and well, it probably wouldn't have been easy for him
10:47
Speaker 1: to pull together a large amount of money to pay
10:49
Speaker 1: off a ransom under these circumstances, especially in the technology
10:54
Speaker 1: deprived world of nineteen forty seven. The biggest argument against
10:58
Speaker 1: the ransom kidnapping fear is that no ransom demand was
11:02
Speaker 1: ever sent, but there could be an explanation for that.
11:05
Speaker 1: When the tornado hit, a pencil sized wood splinter pierced
11:09
Speaker 1: Joan Gay's left calf and went all the way through
11:11
Speaker 1: her leg. Accounts seemed to differ about how thoroughly this
11:15
Speaker 1: wound was treated, but if she was removed from the
11:17
Speaker 1: hospital before she received the proper medical attention, it's possible
11:22
Speaker 1: she could have developed some sort of fatal infection while
11:24
Speaker 1: in the custody of the people who took her. If
11:27
Speaker 1: Joan Gay died before the kidnappers could make a ransom demand,
11:31
Speaker 1: then perhaps they disposed of her body without ever contacting
11:34
Speaker 1: her family. But again, what are the odds that someone
11:37
Speaker 1: would attempt to commit a kidnapping for profit following the
11:40
Speaker 1: aftermath of a natural disaster that they could not have anticipated.
11:45
Speaker 3: Very true? And also, when you think about it, when
11:48
Speaker 3: you guys were talking about the fact that maybe they
11:50
Speaker 3: just came into the hospital and actually heard Joan's name.
11:53
Speaker 3: They could have also heard details about her dad, like, hey,
11:56
Speaker 3: Olan's located here, or I heard that they rushed her
11:59
Speaker 3: dad here, her mother died, like we've got to take
12:01
Speaker 3: care of these kids. They're down in the basement. So
12:04
Speaker 3: it's possible that there could have been nurses who knew
12:07
Speaker 3: the story of that family and who were responding in
12:11
Speaker 3: more than just a medical response, that they were concerned
12:14
Speaker 3: about the reality the kids were being left with, and
12:17
Speaker 3: so it is possible they overheard. And then I'm very
12:21
Speaker 3: interested in this theory of what if she had gotten
12:24
Speaker 3: injured and actually passed away before they could demand a ransom,
12:29
Speaker 3: and it wouldn't necessarily just have to be the infection
12:33
Speaker 3: that said in Let's say that she panicked because she
12:35
Speaker 3: realizes she's not going to see her dad and they
12:38
Speaker 3: tried to restrain her, or they accidentally hit her head
12:41
Speaker 3: getting her in and out of the car because she's fighting.
12:44
Speaker 3: Something to that extent could have also hurt her and
12:47
Speaker 3: like you said, could have led to an unexpected death,
12:49
Speaker 3: which then would have stopped them from being able to
12:52
Speaker 3: advocate for money for this child.
12:54
Speaker 2: And that thing pretty much happened in the most famous
12:57
Speaker 2: ransom kidnapping of all time, which was the Limburg baby
13:00
Speaker 2: kidnapping from nineteen thirty two, where the infant son of
13:04
Speaker 2: Charles Lindberg was kidnapped and was discovered dead, and it's
13:08
Speaker 2: been theorized that whoever took him maybe accidentally killed a
13:11
Speaker 2: child while they were climbing outside the bedroom window. But
13:14
Speaker 2: even though the baby was dead, they still kept the
13:17
Speaker 2: pretense that he was alive so that they could collect
13:19
Speaker 2: the ransom money. So it's possible that something like this
13:22
Speaker 2: happened here where Joan could have just died under accidental
13:25
Speaker 2: circumstances like an infection, or she tried to make an
13:28
Speaker 2: escape or something, though unlike the Lindberg case, these particular
13:32
Speaker 2: kidnappers just decided to move on and not attempted to
13:35
Speaker 2: contact her family. Now, we mentioned earlier that the two
13:40
Speaker 2: men asked for Joan Gay when they entered the basement,
13:42
Speaker 2: but accounts differ about whether they specifically used Joan Gay's
13:46
Speaker 2: name or if they simply asked for the Croft children.
13:49
Speaker 2: But either way, it's clear that these men did not
13:52
Speaker 2: seem to have any interest in her half sister Jerry.
13:55
Speaker 2: I know there was speculation that someone from Cleta Croft's
13:58
Speaker 2: side of the family may have taken Joe Gay, though
14:00
Speaker 2: no evidence was ever found to support this. I really
14:04
Speaker 2: don't think that theory makes much sense since Jerry was
14:07
Speaker 2: Cleta's child from a previous marriage, so I'm not sure
14:10
Speaker 2: why they would be compelled to take Joan Gay and
14:12
Speaker 2: completely ignore Jerry. The most disturbing theory behind Joan Gay's
14:16
Speaker 2: disappearance is that these two men were pedophiles who later
14:19
Speaker 2: assaulted and murdered her. I know that Joan Gay's family
14:23
Speaker 2: referred to her as a quote unquote uncommonly beautiful child,
14:27
Speaker 2: so perhaps there were a pair of sexual predators from
14:29
Speaker 2: the area who always had their eyes on her and
14:32
Speaker 2: decided to take advantage of the situation since they knew
14:35
Speaker 2: Joan Gay had been separated from her family. Again, they
14:38
Speaker 2: asked for Joan Gay by name, so they clearly knew
14:40
Speaker 2: who she was. All that being said, even though you
14:43
Speaker 2: can't accuse pedophiles of being rational people, it still seems
14:47
Speaker 2: incredibly brazen to survive a devastating F five tornado, which
14:51
Speaker 2: took the lives of over one hundred people, and then
14:54
Speaker 2: decide this would be an ideal time to abduct a child,
14:58
Speaker 2: Regardless of what their motives may have been, how could
15:00
Speaker 2: these guys be so certain that they would be able
15:02
Speaker 2: to get away with it without being stopped. If this
15:05
Speaker 2: was an abduction with criminal intent, then they just got
15:08
Speaker 2: incredibly lucky that the nurse who stopped them believed their
15:11
Speaker 2: explanation that they were taking Joan Gay to another hospital.
15:16
Speaker 2: I would say there's a good chance that the two
15:17
Speaker 2: men were not from the I would say there's a
15:19
Speaker 2: good chance that the two men were not from the
15:22
Speaker 2: immediate area. What were was considered to be one of
15:25
Speaker 2: those small towns where everyone knew each other, and there
15:27
Speaker 2: were so many people both in and outside the hospital
15:31
Speaker 2: that you'd assume someone would have recognized these guys if
15:33
Speaker 2: they lived.
15:34
Speaker 3: There very much. That's what I was thinking. It kind
15:37
Speaker 3: of worked both ways that if it was a small
15:39
Speaker 3: town and people would obviously recognize these men, they also
15:44
Speaker 3: would have that intimate information about the family. They might
15:47
Speaker 3: have known Joan, they might have watched the family and
15:49
Speaker 3: the dynamics. They might have even known the reality of
15:52
Speaker 3: what happened during this tornado personally. But I'm more leaning
15:56
Speaker 3: towards what you're saying, Robin. I almost think that if
15:59
Speaker 3: they did live there, how in the heck could they
16:01
Speaker 3: expect to get away with it, Because we live in
16:03
Speaker 3: a small town. If you're a resident here, most people
16:07
Speaker 3: know each other, and so it'd be very difficult to
16:10
Speaker 3: come in be someone who addresses a child by name,
16:13
Speaker 3: gets stopped and accounted for when they're saying, Hey, we're
16:16
Speaker 3: taking this baby to her dad. But that would stick
16:19
Speaker 3: in your mind, like, oh, good, Joan's safe, right, our
16:22
Speaker 3: little jon is safe. She's going to be with her dad. So,
16:26
Speaker 3: like you said, if they were local residents, I don't
16:28
Speaker 3: think there's a chance in heck they could have gotten
16:30
Speaker 3: away with it. I think more they carried themselves with
16:33
Speaker 3: that charm that you know, well put togetherness, that someone
16:37
Speaker 3: thought they had a more authoritative stance than they did,
16:40
Speaker 3: and they trusted them because they were clean cut, put together,
16:44
Speaker 3: dressed nice, look like they might be involved in the
16:46
Speaker 3: military or law enforcement. And so I think it's more
16:49
Speaker 3: leaning towards that where maybe, like y'all were talking about earlier,
16:52
Speaker 3: maybe they heard these nurses in the hallway talking about
16:55
Speaker 3: Joanes specifically and went down toget her.
16:58
Speaker 2: But of course I do agree that they probably weren't
17:00
Speaker 2: from Woodward, But it also makes you wonder what compelled
17:03
Speaker 2: them to travel to the town in the first place,
17:05
Speaker 2: that it's been devastated by a tornado, where they just
17:07
Speaker 2: thinking to themselves, maybe there's a stray child there and
17:10
Speaker 2: we could take advantage of the situation to abductor but
17:13
Speaker 2: who knows. I mean, some people are very opportunistic and
17:16
Speaker 2: probably thought this is a grand opportunity to get away
17:19
Speaker 2: with it.
17:20
Speaker 1: And you would think even if your objective was to
17:22
Speaker 1: go to Woodward to abduct a child, that once an
17:25
Speaker 1: F five tornado hit, you would probably high tail it
17:28
Speaker 1: out of there just for self preservation's sake. But these guys,
17:32
Speaker 1: it looks as though that they didn't do that, that
17:35
Speaker 1: they took advantage of the situation. So they were either
17:37
Speaker 1: very desperate to get a child or just incredibly opportunistic,
17:42
Speaker 1: because when most people would think I'm going to get
17:44
Speaker 1: the hell out of here, they went in deep. They
17:47
Speaker 1: went to the basement of that hospital. It just seems
17:49
Speaker 1: like such a ballsy move. But like Robin said earlier,
17:53
Speaker 1: there was no stranger danger back then. We weren't aware
17:55
Speaker 1: of sexual predators and beats. There wasn't the technology, and
18:00
Speaker 1: the same with serial killers. These things weren't on people's minds.
18:03
Speaker 1: So when some guys came to take Joan gaye, of
18:06
Speaker 1: course they're going to assume that this is somebody who
18:09
Speaker 1: is legit, because, like Ashley just said, they likely were
18:12
Speaker 1: very clean cut and charming enough that they were believable.
18:15
Speaker 1: Another frustrating element to the case is the vague description
18:19
Speaker 1: of what the men were wearing, which has usually been
18:21
Speaker 1: described as military type khaki clothing. Since both of them
18:25
Speaker 1: were wearing this clothing, it's possible they were affiliated with
18:29
Speaker 1: the military or may have been rescue workers. But if
18:32
Speaker 1: that's the case and their intentions were noble, this doesn't
18:36
Speaker 1: explain why they would take Joan Gay out of the
18:38
Speaker 1: hospital while leaving Jerry behind. Let's suppose that they were
18:42
Speaker 1: actually telling the truth and plan to take Joan Gage
18:44
Speaker 1: to another hospital to hear family who would have sent
18:47
Speaker 1: them to the basement to begin with. It's true that
18:50
Speaker 1: Joan Gay's aunt Ruth was at a hospital in Moorland
18:53
Speaker 1: with her family that night, but since Ruth was the
18:56
Speaker 1: one who discovered Joan Gay was missing, she obviously knew
18:59
Speaker 1: nothing about about these men. Now, some sources state that
19:03
Speaker 1: Olincroft's injuries were so severe that he was transported to
19:06
Speaker 1: a hospital in Oklahoma City, one hundred and fifty miles away,
19:10
Speaker 1: and that the two men specifically mentioned Oklahoma City after
19:13
Speaker 1: grabbing Joan Gay. It would actually make sense to take
19:16
Speaker 1: Joan Gay there, and this might account for why they
19:19
Speaker 1: didn't grab Jerry, since she was technically not Olin's biological daughter.
19:24
Speaker 1: If these men were good smaritans who were legitimately attempting
19:27
Speaker 1: to take Joan Gay to see your family, perhaps something
19:30
Speaker 1: happened to them on their way there that they could
19:32
Speaker 1: have accidentally driven into a body of water, and the
19:35
Speaker 1: three of them are still submerged inside a vehicle somewhere
19:38
Speaker 1: after all these years.
19:40
Speaker 3: That's very possible. There's also this idea that what if
19:42
Speaker 3: she was transported somewhere and left and that's not where
19:46
Speaker 3: Olan was. I'm trying to think of how much a
19:49
Speaker 3: four year old would be able to articulate who they are,
19:51
Speaker 3: who their parents are. It really depends on how much
19:54
Speaker 3: her parents drilled those things into her head. If she
19:57
Speaker 3: knew her little address, if she knew her parents first
20:00
Speaker 3: last names, if she knew how her full name, those
20:04
Speaker 3: kinds of things back in the forties, Remember, we don't
20:07
Speaker 3: have the same kind of record keeping and information sources
20:10
Speaker 3: that we have today, And so is it possible that
20:14
Speaker 3: let's say Dad was supposed to be in Oklahoma City,
20:16
Speaker 3: they get her there, Let's say he's on a list
20:18
Speaker 3: of people that should have arrived in Oklahoma City and
20:21
Speaker 3: some nurses take her from there, and then he doesn't
20:24
Speaker 3: get there, or let's say he is moved to a
20:27
Speaker 3: different place. You know those kinds of issues. Could they
20:29
Speaker 3: have been miscommunicated or possibly communicated correctly and information just
20:34
Speaker 3: got shuffled in the mix. I doubt it, But again,
20:37
Speaker 3: it's the forties. So if she gets taken one hundred
20:40
Speaker 3: and fifty miles away and can't articulate who she is
20:43
Speaker 3: and people aren't aware of who she's supposed to be with,
20:46
Speaker 3: could she have gotten lost in the shuffle there and
20:48
Speaker 3: eventually someone says, I'll take her in.
20:50
Speaker 2: She's our baby.
20:51
Speaker 3: Now, you know, it's this little poor baby who lost
20:54
Speaker 3: her family and the tornado and we're just going to
20:56
Speaker 3: take care of her.
20:57
Speaker 2: Well, you read our minds, because that's exactly what I'm
21:00
Speaker 2: to talk about next, because I do think that is
21:02
Speaker 2: a very intriguing angle. So I mentioned in our last
21:05
Speaker 2: episode that since this is an older case, we have
21:08
Speaker 2: run into issues with finding contradictory information from different sources.
21:13
Speaker 2: Well here's another example of this. Many sources report that
21:16
Speaker 2: Olan was transferred to a hospital in Oklahoma City for treatment,
21:20
Speaker 2: but a few months after the tornado, Olan was interviewed
21:23
Speaker 2: for an article in the Daily Oklahoma and stated quote,
21:26
Speaker 2: I was still unconscious under the rubble of our house
21:29
Speaker 2: when the children were taken to the Woodward Hospital. Later,
21:32
Speaker 2: I was taken to the same hospital, but I was
21:34
Speaker 2: removed about daylight to the Baker Hospital end quote. Now,
21:38
Speaker 2: as a refresher, the Baker Hospital is a reference to
21:41
Speaker 2: the nearby Baker Hotel, which was converted into a hospital
21:45
Speaker 2: in order to accommodate the many injured patients. But if
21:48
Speaker 2: Olan's quote is correct, then this means he was being
21:51
Speaker 2: treated at the Woodward Hospital at the exact same time.
21:54
Speaker 2: Joan Gay was there and never went to Oklahoma City,
21:57
Speaker 2: so there one seemed to be any reason to take
21:59
Speaker 2: his dog her to a different hospital. However, if that
22:02
Speaker 2: did happen, there was another alternate theory which was proposed
22:06
Speaker 2: during the initial media coverage of the case. What if
22:09
Speaker 2: Joan Gay got lost in the shuffle because of a
22:11
Speaker 2: clerical error. Joan Gay actually spoke with a lisp, and
22:14
Speaker 2: since she was only four years old, some people put
22:17
Speaker 2: forward the idea that if she was taken to a hospital,
22:20
Speaker 2: she would have been unable to give her name correctly,
22:22
Speaker 2: where they simply misunderstood her, and for this reason she
22:26
Speaker 2: was listed under the wrong name. When they could match
22:29
Speaker 2: Joan Gay up with her family, and no one came
22:31
Speaker 2: forward to claim her, she wound up being placed in
22:33
Speaker 2: foster care and was raised under a different name somewhere.
22:37
Speaker 2: This scenario might sound absurd today, but again, we're talking
22:41
Speaker 2: about rural Oklahoma in the pre digital world of nineteen
22:44
Speaker 2: forty seven, in the aftermath of the worst tornado in
22:47
Speaker 2: the state's history. The information just simply did travel as
22:51
Speaker 2: fast back then. So even though Joan Gay's disappearance generated
22:54
Speaker 2: a lot of publicity at the time, it's not impossible
22:57
Speaker 2: that she could have slipped under the radar. But of course,
23:00
Speaker 2: this still doesn't explain why these so called Good Samaritans
23:03
Speaker 2: would remove Joan Gay from the hospital to begin with
23:06
Speaker 2: and separate her from her half sister.
23:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. I think if you you know,
23:12
Speaker 3: if you don't have the explanation of who who were
23:16
Speaker 3: these men? It's impossible to trace back exactly what the
23:19
Speaker 3: motives were, But I don't know. I'm kind of liking
23:22
Speaker 3: this angle that you have this little girl who we
23:24
Speaker 3: know has a lisp. She's four, So if she has
23:28
Speaker 3: a speech impediment and she's trying to speak to adults,
23:32
Speaker 3: she's scared. She doesn't know these people. Is it possible
23:36
Speaker 3: that she doesn't know her last name? Is it possible
23:39
Speaker 3: she doesn't know her father's full name and it said
23:41
Speaker 3: that's just Dad, right and not Olin. It's I think
23:46
Speaker 3: it's a possibility. You have a place where one hundred
23:50
Speaker 3: people died, and this tornado just ravished the buildings in
23:54
Speaker 3: that town, And so if you knew you had transplants
23:58
Speaker 3: from all these different towns coming to oak Wahoma City,
24:01
Speaker 3: is it possible you don't know where this specific child
24:04
Speaker 3: came from and you sure as heck don't know how
24:05
Speaker 3: to link her back to her family. I think it's
24:08
Speaker 3: a possibility. But again, like you said, if we don't
24:10
Speaker 3: know who these two men were, it's impossible to say
24:13
Speaker 3: were they good Samaritans trying to do something for her,
24:16
Speaker 3: or were they opportunistic or were they actually people who
24:18
Speaker 3: had been watching this family and then capitalized when she
24:21
Speaker 3: was separated from her family.
24:24
Speaker 2: I mean, we have seen some documented cases from that
24:26
Speaker 2: time period about children who have gone missing and then
24:29
Speaker 2: supposedly been found and reunited with their family, such as
24:33
Speaker 2: the Bobby Dunbar case from nineteen twelve. Because they didn't
24:37
Speaker 2: have any DNA testing back then to verify that this
24:39
Speaker 2: child was the missing sibling, and then they do DNA
24:42
Speaker 2: testing decades later and they realized, oh, this is not
24:45
Speaker 2: actually the missing child. This was some other kid who
24:47
Speaker 2: just wound up with the wrong family. So that's why
24:50
Speaker 2: I'm not going to write off this scenario, because that
24:52
Speaker 2: sort of thing did happen back then. That Joan Gay,
24:54
Speaker 2: if she was taken to another hospital and they couldn't
24:57
Speaker 2: determine her true identity, they just gave her to another
25:00
Speaker 2: family and she lived the rest of her life under
25:02
Speaker 2: a different identity without even knowing that she had been
25:06
Speaker 2: taken from her birth family.
25:09
Speaker 1: So now we have to talk about the intriguing mystery
25:12
Speaker 1: within a mystery, and that's the three girls who were
25:15
Speaker 1: killed by the tornado and never officially identified. I know
25:19
Speaker 1: that one of these girls resembled Joan Gay, and appeared
25:21
Speaker 1: to be the same age, which is why her aunt Ruth,
25:24
Speaker 1: was asked to identify her. We briefly considered the possibility
25:27
Speaker 1: that perhaps this deceased girl was Joan Gay, and possibly
25:31
Speaker 1: due to wishful thinking that her niece was still alive,
25:34
Speaker 1: Ruth was simply mistaken when she said that the victim
25:37
Speaker 1: was not her. However, it does seem like other residents
25:40
Speaker 1: of Woodward were pretty certain they knew who this girl was,
25:44
Speaker 1: but her grandmother refused to positively identify her, and since
25:47
Speaker 1: she was never claimed, they had to bury her as
25:50
Speaker 1: an unidentified child. Yeah, this scenario sounds incredibly sad, but
25:55
Speaker 1: the world was still decades away from DNA testing and
25:58
Speaker 1: this child was probably too young to have dental records.
26:02
Speaker 1: If the grandmother refused to make a positive ID, how
26:05
Speaker 1: could they conclusively prove that the child belonged to her family.
26:09
Speaker 1: If this theory about the girl's identity is correct, then
26:12
Speaker 1: it definitely rules out the possibility of her being Joan Gay.
26:16
Speaker 1: But even if she was, that still wouldn't explain how
26:20
Speaker 1: Joan Gay was killed after she was removed from the hospital.
26:23
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they ever released the exact cause of
26:26
Speaker 1: death for the child, but it sounds like it was
26:28
Speaker 1: due to the circumstances of the tornado and there were
26:31
Speaker 1: no signs of foul play. The deceased infant may have
26:35
Speaker 1: been in a similar situation where her impoverished family refused
26:39
Speaker 1: to claim her because they couldn't afford the costs of
26:41
Speaker 1: a funeral or burial, or perhaps her parents were killed
26:44
Speaker 1: in the tornado and the authorities were unable to match
26:47
Speaker 1: them together. It does seem strange that no one from
26:51
Speaker 1: Woodward or the surrounding area had any idea who the
26:54
Speaker 1: twelve year old girl was. I know that a ton
26:56
Speaker 1: of school teachers looked at her body and could not
26:58
Speaker 1: identify her. So maybe she also hailed from an impoverished
27:02
Speaker 1: family who never cent her to school and they didn't
27:05
Speaker 1: come forward to claim her body. Whatever the case, all
27:09
Speaker 1: three of these victims are still buried in Elmwood Cemetery
27:12
Speaker 1: in Woodward, so if they have the resources, it would
27:15
Speaker 1: be nice if the authorities were able to exhume them
27:18
Speaker 1: for DNA testing. Even if they're not connected to Joan
27:21
Speaker 1: Gay's case, these girls deserve to have their names.
27:23
Speaker 3: Back absolutely right now. They're sitting there and they're buried
27:27
Speaker 3: with name markers that are unidentified little girls. And so
27:32
Speaker 3: it would be incredible if we could go across the
27:35
Speaker 3: country and go through places like this and say, look,
27:38
Speaker 3: there's three human beings, somebody's daughter, somebody's sister who's sitting here,
27:43
Speaker 3: and they don't have an identity connected to them. The history,
27:48
Speaker 3: the stories, the families that you don't know who these
27:51
Speaker 3: people were. It's important, like you said, just the dignity
27:55
Speaker 3: of having their names back. Were they impoverished families that
27:59
Speaker 3: said it would cost the families too much to bury
28:01
Speaker 3: them after a tornado, remember where they likely lost their
28:04
Speaker 3: homes and things of that nature too. Then they're expected
28:08
Speaker 3: to provide a burial for a child. And for some
28:10
Speaker 3: of these families, if they truly were in poverty, they
28:13
Speaker 3: were struggling to figure out where are we going to live,
28:15
Speaker 3: how are we going to feed the surviving children? And
28:18
Speaker 3: then we also need to pay for a burial. I
28:20
Speaker 3: understand where families might not have come forward and said
28:24
Speaker 3: that's my baby. And think about this. The grandmother who
28:27
Speaker 3: quote would not positively identify her. Was it that she
28:31
Speaker 3: couldn't that the grief was just too much that she
28:33
Speaker 3: couldn't look at that child? And admit to herself that
28:36
Speaker 3: she had passed away. It's really tragic when you stop
28:39
Speaker 3: and think about it.
28:41
Speaker 2: So now we'll move on to discussing the final piece
28:43
Speaker 2: of the puzzle, in this case, the emails received by
28:46
Speaker 2: newspaper columnist Robert E. Lee in nineteen ninety nine from
28:49
Speaker 2: a woman claiming to be Joan Gay. She claimed that
28:52
Speaker 2: she was still alive and well after five decades living
28:56
Speaker 2: under a different name, and that her late father had
28:58
Speaker 2: always been aware of this. She was hoping to organize
29:01
Speaker 2: a face to face meeting with Lee to share the
29:03
Speaker 2: whole story, but stop communicating with them before this could
29:06
Speaker 2: take place. They were unable to trace her email address,
29:09
Speaker 2: but in her last communication with Lee, she said that
29:12
Speaker 2: she was usually on the internet on Mondays, Wednesdays, and
29:15
Speaker 2: Fridays between nine and ten thirty am. This makes me
29:19
Speaker 2: wonder if she did not have Internet at home and
29:21
Speaker 2: was sending these emails from a public place like a library. Now.
29:25
Speaker 2: In her second email, she specifically wrote, quote my immediate
29:29
Speaker 2: families knew where I was, and the word family had
29:32
Speaker 2: an S on the end with parentheses. However, this was
29:36
Speaker 2: just over five years removed from Joan Gay's aunt and
29:38
Speaker 2: cousin appearing on Unsolved Mysteries in an attempt to find her,
29:42
Speaker 2: so they obviously did not know where she was. So
29:45
Speaker 2: when she said immediate families, was she only referring to
29:48
Speaker 2: her father and half sister Jerry. Well. Interestingly enough, Jerry
29:53
Speaker 2: did not appear on Unsolved Mysteries, and when Jean Smith
29:56
Speaker 2: came forward after the show aired, Jerry apparently declined request
30:00
Speaker 2: to submit a DNA sample for testing. The only time
30:04
Speaker 2: I ever saw Jerry publicly speak about Joan Gay's disappearance
30:08
Speaker 2: was when she responded to an anniversary article published about
30:11
Speaker 2: the case during the nineteen seventies and stated, quote, Granted,
30:15
Speaker 2: it would be more than a joy if Joan Gay
30:17
Speaker 2: was found through one of the stories, but the chance
30:19
Speaker 2: is less than one million end quote.
30:22
Speaker 3: I can only believe what Jerry's life was like. I mean,
30:24
Speaker 3: this is her half sister, right, and then her the
30:27
Speaker 3: mother of Joan, had also passed away. You have a
30:32
Speaker 3: tornado that hitcher Town. A lot of homes and businesses
30:35
Speaker 3: and things like that are devastated. So she's existing in
30:38
Speaker 3: the midst of so much trauma in one big moment,
30:42
Speaker 3: and then there's no way that her aunt and father
30:45
Speaker 3: and everyone else in that family was quote the same.
30:49
Speaker 3: After Joan goes missing. I guarantee you there was a
30:51
Speaker 3: lot of resources put towards finding her. There was a
30:54
Speaker 3: lot of emotional tie in to we still have another
30:58
Speaker 3: daughter out there, we have to find her. And so
31:01
Speaker 3: that had to be incredibly difficult for Jerry to balance
31:04
Speaker 3: as a child, the grief of her father, the grief
31:08
Speaker 3: of her half sister being gone, the grief of this
31:10
Speaker 3: tornado and upheaval from that, and being a really a
31:14
Speaker 3: news story for years and years, and then at some
31:17
Speaker 3: point it has to feel like a life she doesn't
31:20
Speaker 3: really even remember anymore, because her life is so radically
31:24
Speaker 3: different after this tornado and Joan goes missing. So I
31:28
Speaker 3: think there has to be a little bit of almost
31:30
Speaker 3: disassociating from that for her, where she'd say, you know,
31:34
Speaker 3: it would be great if she came back, but almost
31:36
Speaker 3: can't go there or be wrapped up in that because
31:39
Speaker 3: she's hurt so much and lost so much and had
31:42
Speaker 3: to rebuild a life that doesn't include Joan as part
31:45
Speaker 3: of it.
31:47
Speaker 2: And I can only imagine how strange it must have
31:49
Speaker 2: been for her, because when Joan Gay originally went missing,
31:52
Speaker 2: Jerry would not have been aware of the concept of
31:54
Speaker 2: DNA testing, so she probably has moved on with her life.
31:57
Speaker 2: And then nearly fifty years later, during the nineteen nine
32:00
Speaker 2: the story gets shown on national television for the first
32:03
Speaker 2: time and they're asking, Hey, do you mind submitting a
32:05
Speaker 2: sample of your DNA to compare with his adult woman
32:08
Speaker 2: who thinks she's Joan Gay. I mean, I can only
32:11
Speaker 2: imagine how awkward it would have been for and I
32:13
Speaker 2: can kind of understand her decision to pretty much decide no,
32:16
Speaker 2: I just want to move on with my life. I've
32:18
Speaker 2: dealt with this trauma for so many years, and I
32:20
Speaker 2: just don't want to go back into the spotlight.
32:23
Speaker 1: I know that when Olin Croft recovered from his injuries
32:26
Speaker 1: following the tornado, he went out of his way to
32:29
Speaker 1: generate publicity for his missing daughter, But looking at his
32:32
Speaker 1: memorial page on the Find a Grave website, I was
32:35
Speaker 1: surprised to discover that Olin got remarried to his third
32:38
Speaker 1: wife in July of nineteen forty seven. That's only a
32:41
Speaker 1: few months after Cletod was killed, and Olan moved to
32:44
Speaker 1: San Antonio the following year. I know that different people
32:48
Speaker 1: grieve in different ways, but Olan seemed to move on
32:51
Speaker 1: pretty quickly after losing his wife and daughter, though perhaps
32:54
Speaker 1: he felt he had to get away from Woodward because
32:56
Speaker 1: his house was destroyed and it might have been too
32:59
Speaker 1: painful for him to remain there. Interestingly, the finder Grave
33:03
Speaker 1: website also states that Olin quote had little contact with
33:07
Speaker 1: his Crofts siblings end quote following the move to San Antonio.
33:11
Speaker 1: So I don't know if we should read anything into that,
33:14
Speaker 1: but we've seen other sources which stated that Olin continued
33:17
Speaker 1: pursuing leads to find Joan Gay up until his death, which,
33:21
Speaker 1: if true, goes against the emailer's claims that she was
33:24
Speaker 1: living under a different name with her father's full knowledge. Again,
33:29
Speaker 1: this tornado was a completely unpredictable event which no one
33:33
Speaker 1: could have anticipated, and it wound up leaving Olan seriously injured.
33:37
Speaker 1: So I just don't see how he could have orchestrated
33:40
Speaker 1: his daughter's disappearance or why he would be content to
33:43
Speaker 1: let her go on living elsewhere under a different identity.
33:47
Speaker 1: It's also interesting how the emailer misspelled Ollencroft's name as
33:50
Speaker 1: Orland with an R, which could be a sign that
33:53
Speaker 1: she's lying or could be a simple typo.
33:57
Speaker 3: Okay, So let's back up to the fact that he
33:58
Speaker 3: moves on pretty quickly. I think, like you said, people
34:01
Speaker 3: grieve in different ways. And remember this is the nineteen forties,
34:05
Speaker 3: where there were a lot of very well defined gender roles,
34:09
Speaker 3: and a man in the house was not necessarily the
34:13
Speaker 3: doting father and the man who was going to be
34:16
Speaker 3: home helping kids with their emotional well being and things
34:19
Speaker 3: like that. That was mom's job. Dad went to work.
34:22
Speaker 3: And so I wonder too, in the forties, is this
34:25
Speaker 3: a man who says, oh my god, I just lost everything.
34:27
Speaker 3: I still have a child to take care of. I
34:30
Speaker 3: still need to look for my child, and I still
34:32
Speaker 3: have to provide for my family. I need a partner
34:35
Speaker 3: who's able to help me with you know, with Jerry,
34:37
Speaker 3: and I need somebody to be able to, you know,
34:39
Speaker 3: continue to help me. And so I honestly think it
34:42
Speaker 3: would be more of that that there is a role,
34:45
Speaker 3: like a partnership that you have and after all of
34:49
Speaker 3: this trauma, having another person step in to help him
34:52
Speaker 3: with the emotional, the physical, you know, all of the
34:56
Speaker 3: details that he's dealing with would have been a conscious
35:00
Speaker 3: decision for him. And I think he was lonely and
35:02
Speaker 3: hurting so again, you crave that kind of attention after
35:06
Speaker 3: the loss of his spouse, and remember, he's dealing with
35:08
Speaker 3: the loss of a child and still needing to be
35:11
Speaker 3: a father. So I could very much see him asking
35:14
Speaker 3: a woman who he deems as a good woman to
35:17
Speaker 3: come in and help pick up the pieces and be
35:19
Speaker 3: that other piece of the household that he's so desperately needed.
35:23
Speaker 3: I definitely do not think that the emailer's claims are
35:26
Speaker 3: accurate that Olin knew who where this daughter was, right,
35:31
Speaker 3: because if that's the case, why would he put Jerry
35:34
Speaker 3: through all of that? Why would he put his new
35:36
Speaker 3: wife through all of that? He was hunting for her
35:39
Speaker 3: until his death, asking people to please help him find her,
35:43
Speaker 3: to figure out what happened to her. That is constant trauma.
35:47
Speaker 3: I don't see anywhere else where he's looking for notoriety
35:50
Speaker 3: and fame, right, it's just when he is seeking his
35:53
Speaker 3: daughter is he asking people to pay attention to his family.
35:56
Speaker 3: So I can't imagine that he knew and put people through.
36:00
Speaker 2: Just cannot Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, because I looked
36:03
Speaker 2: for the newspaper archives and he did continue to do
36:06
Speaker 2: interviews about it well into the nineteen eighties, shortly before
36:09
Speaker 2: he passed away, so he certainly did not give off
36:11
Speaker 2: the impression that he knew what happened to Joan Gay.
36:14
Speaker 2: And I do agree that because it was the forties,
36:17
Speaker 2: he probably thought that, I'm a man who has to
36:19
Speaker 2: take care of my children. I need to get married
36:21
Speaker 2: and she can help run the house while I still
36:24
Speaker 2: go on working my job, and that could explain why
36:26
Speaker 2: he got remarried so quickly. And some people, even though
36:30
Speaker 2: it can look suspicious in the true crime circles, when
36:32
Speaker 2: someone who has lost their spouse gets remarried relatively quickly,
36:36
Speaker 2: it might be because they just have a hard time
36:38
Speaker 2: being alone. They're so used to being in a marriage
36:41
Speaker 2: that they just don't want to be alone for that long,
36:43
Speaker 2: and that's why they hook up with someone else very quickly. However,
36:48
Speaker 2: what's particularly odd is that when the writer signed her
36:51
Speaker 2: name at the end of both emails, she spelled Gay
36:54
Speaker 2: with an E on the end. There are no other
36:56
Speaker 2: sources out there which spelled Joan Gay's name with an E,
37:00
Speaker 2: But if you do some online sleuthing under Joan gay
37:02
Speaker 2: Croft with an E, you'll make some interesting discoveries. There's
37:07
Speaker 2: actually an old Twitter account for a Joan gay Craft
37:10
Speaker 2: under the handle at jj Croft Constein, and it only
37:14
Speaker 2: features one tweet from all the way back in May
37:16
Speaker 2: of twenty eleven, which reads, quote posted my case years
37:21
Speaker 2: in the making. Hope family understands end quote. This sounds
37:25
Speaker 2: pretty cryptic, but in guessing this might be in reference
37:28
Speaker 2: to a legal appeal you can find online from December
37:31
Speaker 2: of twenty ten where the United States Court of Appeals
37:34
Speaker 2: for the Tenth Circuit looked at the case Constein versus
37:38
Speaker 2: United States. The plaintiff, Virginia K. Constein, had sued the
37:42
Speaker 2: United States Department of Education, the Student Loan Association, and
37:47
Speaker 2: four Department of Education officials, and the case was heard
37:50
Speaker 2: in front of the United States District Court for the
37:52
Speaker 2: Western District of Oklahoma. Believe it or not, the reason
37:56
Speaker 2: the lawsuit was filed is because the government had reduced
37:59
Speaker 2: Constein's Social Security disability checks in order to make payment
38:03
Speaker 2: on her student loans, so she asked for quote unquote
38:06
Speaker 2: relief from the defendant in the amount of thirty four
38:09
Speaker 2: trillion dollars. I know this will probably come as a
38:12
Speaker 2: shock to you, but the suit was dismissed and Miss
38:14
Speaker 2: Constein did not receive thirty four trillion dollars.
38:18
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's sounded convincing to me. If I was
38:20
Speaker 3: on the Jury show, she sure would have and then
38:23
Speaker 3: I would have been her best friend. We would have
38:25
Speaker 3: had to split it.
38:27
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
38:28
Speaker 3: So when you look at this account, Joan gay Kroft
38:32
Speaker 3: would have been let's see how old she would have been.
38:35
Speaker 3: Seventy something, right, pretty much? If she yeah posted okay, sixty,
38:39
Speaker 3: late sixties, early seventies, I don't really scream Twitter yes
38:44
Speaker 3: or that for that generation. And so for me, that
38:47
Speaker 3: would be a really long shot that anybody right who's
38:51
Speaker 3: this missing person? One would still necessarily go by that
38:54
Speaker 3: name so openly, and two that she'd be hanging out
38:58
Speaker 3: on Twitter.
38:59
Speaker 2: I'm with you.
38:59
Speaker 3: I think that it definitely refers to this amazingly convincing
39:02
Speaker 3: case for trillions of dollars, and not Joan gay Croft
39:07
Speaker 3: without an e.
39:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a shocka that someone who would sue for
39:11
Speaker 2: thirty four trillion dollars might just decide to pretend to
39:14
Speaker 2: be a missing child fifty years after the fact.
39:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, she seems very unstable. And to ask your family
39:19
Speaker 3: please understand, wouldn't you proceed with a thirty four trillion
39:22
Speaker 3: dollar lawsuit with your family's blessing. It just seems odd.
39:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with the seventy year old in twenty
39:29
Speaker 1: ten not being like right up there with the social media.
39:32
Speaker 1: It was just like the introduction of social media right
39:35
Speaker 1: around twenty ten, it wasn't a big deal. Like to
39:37
Speaker 1: see seventy year olds on Twitter or x now wouldn't
39:41
Speaker 1: be a big deal, but back then it would have
39:43
Speaker 1: been pretty rare. But here's where the bizarre connection to
39:47
Speaker 1: Joan gay Croft comes in. The aforementioned appeal states that
39:51
Speaker 1: in May twenty ten, the Attorney General of the United
39:54
Speaker 1: States received a certified mail delivery of emotion for default,
39:58
Speaker 1: and it contained to return add dress label with the
40:01
Speaker 1: name Joan gay Croft, where gay was spelt with an
40:04
Speaker 1: E on the end. Now, for all we know, this
40:06
Speaker 1: nonsense may not have anything to do with the case,
40:09
Speaker 1: but the emailer who told Robert E. Lee that she
40:12
Speaker 1: was Joan Gaycroft claimed that she'd been living in Oklahoma
40:15
Speaker 1: City under a different name. And here we have a
40:18
Speaker 1: woman from Oklahoma City named Virginia k. Constein who was
40:22
Speaker 1: apparently using Joan Gaycroft as a false name. So I
40:25
Speaker 1: do have to wonder if this consign was the one
40:28
Speaker 1: who sent the email, because if she's wild enough to
40:31
Speaker 1: file a lawsuit for thirty four trillion dollars, then she
40:35
Speaker 1: might be the type of person who would pretend to
40:37
Speaker 1: be a girl who went missing over fifty years earlier.
40:40
Speaker 1: The fact that Joan Gay just happened to misspell her
40:43
Speaker 1: own name and her emails makes me inclined to believe
40:46
Speaker 1: that the whole thing was just some kind of bizarre hoax.
40:49
Speaker 3: Yes, and I mean you could think of if there
40:51
Speaker 3: were other details in there, especially she hadn't said that
40:53
Speaker 3: her father knew. I could understand a four year old
40:57
Speaker 3: growing up and misspelling her birth name and misspelling even
41:01
Speaker 3: her father's name, because itty biddy's call their parents' dad, mom, daddy.
41:05
Speaker 3: You know it's not hello, Ashley Wellman. You know Teddy
41:09
Speaker 3: doesn't call me that. And so when we think about
41:12
Speaker 3: what potential there could be that she doesn't remember some
41:15
Speaker 3: of those specifics, then I can understand it. But again,
41:19
Speaker 3: there's too many other things in there. There's these really
41:21
Speaker 3: odd cryptic like I'll be at this location at this time. Okay,
41:25
Speaker 3: that's a little odd. Also, my dad completely knew where
41:28
Speaker 3: I was. My family is knew where I was. It
41:31
Speaker 3: just seems like she adds other information in there that
41:34
Speaker 3: make me say, even if those errors were because of
41:37
Speaker 3: the time passed and her separation, there were other ones
41:40
Speaker 3: in there that I just simply can't look past. Is
41:42
Speaker 3: it this lady? Not necessarily? But and would she even
41:46
Speaker 3: know to look back fifty years to find this other
41:49
Speaker 3: name she could use? I don't know. Or did she
41:51
Speaker 3: just happen to pick this bizarre name and that you
41:55
Speaker 3: have this other crazy on the other end of the
41:57
Speaker 3: email as well. I do not think Joan Gaycroft real
42:00
Speaker 3: young lady was the one emailing Robert E. Lee. What
42:04
Speaker 3: a bizarre name for a I.
42:06
Speaker 2: Know Jannalis exactly. Yeah, I had to clarify that in
42:09
Speaker 2: her last episode. It's not the Robert E. Lee who
42:11
Speaker 2: fought for the Confederacy. Surprise.
42:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, he passed away a while ago.
42:17
Speaker 2: But the problem is that it's so difficult to figure
42:20
Speaker 2: out what really did happen to Joan gay I hate
42:23
Speaker 2: to say this, but I really can't come up with
42:25
Speaker 2: a concrete theory to explain the whole situation because it
42:28
Speaker 2: is just so out of the ordinary. I would really
42:31
Speaker 2: like to think that whoever abducted Joan Gay did not
42:33
Speaker 2: go on to kill her, and that she somehow got
42:35
Speaker 2: placed with another family and went on to live a
42:38
Speaker 2: long life under a new identity without any awareness of
42:41
Speaker 2: who she really was. At four years old, she still
42:44
Speaker 2: would have been young enough to have forgotten all memories
42:46
Speaker 2: of her life with her original family, and even if
42:49
Speaker 2: she did remember her mother and father, she may have
42:51
Speaker 2: been told they died in the tornado. If she is
42:54
Speaker 2: still alive today, Joan gay will be turning eighty three
42:57
Speaker 2: years old on October the twenty eighth of this year.
43:00
Speaker 2: There's always the possibility that she went on to live
43:03
Speaker 2: for a long time under a different name and has
43:05
Speaker 2: died of natural causes. But since her family's DNA is
43:08
Speaker 2: in the state database, there is always a possibility of
43:11
Speaker 2: a match someday. If by chance, you happen to have
43:14
Speaker 2: any information on the unsolved disappearance of Joan gay Craft,
43:18
Speaker 2: or you think he might even be Joan Gay, please
43:21
Speaker 2: contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts in
43:25
Speaker 2: this case?
43:26
Speaker 3: How magical would it be if Joan gay Croft was
43:30
Speaker 3: either still alive and or is eventually linked via DNA
43:34
Speaker 3: to back to her birth family, Right, I would love
43:37
Speaker 3: to hear and love to know that somehow she got
43:41
Speaker 3: lost in the shuffle. Somehow some person stepped up and said,
43:44
Speaker 3: you know what, we couldn't have children. You know what,
43:47
Speaker 3: we have a healthy, established family. Let's bring this poor
43:50
Speaker 3: child and who's displaced and we cannot find out who
43:53
Speaker 3: she is, and we will raise her as our own.
43:56
Speaker 3: Who knows, maybe her whole life she was trying to
43:58
Speaker 3: figure out who she was as well. It would be
44:01
Speaker 3: fascinating even if she had passed away at this point,
44:04
Speaker 3: to link back to other people she was raised with,
44:07
Speaker 3: understand you know where she was. That is a fantasy
44:10
Speaker 3: of mine that her family could learn she was safe,
44:13
Speaker 3: she grew up healthy and happy, and that these other theories,
44:17
Speaker 3: things like human trafficking, sexual abuse, a death on her
44:20
Speaker 3: way to being held for ransom, those kinds of things.
44:24
Speaker 3: I'm praying that's not the case, and that it just
44:27
Speaker 3: so happened that a family said, if this baby doesn't
44:29
Speaker 3: have a home, she now does, She'll always be ours
44:32
Speaker 3: until we can figure something else out. And because of
44:36
Speaker 3: the time this occurred in it just simply never manifested
44:39
Speaker 3: that Joan was able to reconnect with her birth family.
44:42
Speaker 1: I truly hope the same thing that Joan went on
44:45
Speaker 1: to live a happy and healthy life, and if that
44:48
Speaker 1: is true, then there's some solace in that. It's just
44:51
Speaker 1: really unfortunate that Olan never got to find out what
44:55
Speaker 1: happened to his daughter. I don't believe that any of
44:58
Speaker 1: those emails are legitimate or that that person was Joan Gay,
45:03
Speaker 1: since you know, you don't misspell your own name, and
45:06
Speaker 1: it just seemed odd to say that, like my dad
45:09
Speaker 1: knew where I was living, like all to his knowledge,
45:11
Speaker 1: but we know that Owen was looking for her right
45:15
Speaker 1: up until the end of his life, So it just
45:17
Speaker 1: doesn't check out. And I really have no idea what
45:20
Speaker 1: happened here, Like that's what I hope happened, that somebody
45:23
Speaker 1: decided to raise her, or even if she was abducted
45:27
Speaker 1: for some adoption ring, that hopefully she got adopted to
45:30
Speaker 1: a nice family and went on to live a good life.
45:33
Speaker 1: But it just seems so odd that these two men
45:36
Speaker 1: came in there and they didn't have some kind of
45:39
Speaker 1: nefarious intent, like to steal her away for what purpose
45:44
Speaker 1: I don't know, And the fact that they couldn't have
45:46
Speaker 1: known that there was a tornado happening, and that they
45:49
Speaker 1: still went ahead and did it is so ballsy. I
45:52
Speaker 1: just don't know how to make heads or tails of
45:55
Speaker 1: this case.
45:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I would definitely rank this as
45:59
Speaker 2: one of the most purple flaxing missing children's cases I've
46:01
Speaker 2: ever seen. I remember originally being introduced to it when
46:04
Speaker 2: it aired on Unsolved Mysteries over thirty years ago, and
46:08
Speaker 2: when I remember watching it and thinking that it was
46:10
Speaker 2: going to be like your standard lost love segment from
46:12
Speaker 2: the show, where we had a family looking for a
46:14
Speaker 2: lost child that got placed up for adoption or taken
46:17
Speaker 2: away from social services. But did not expect a story
46:20
Speaker 2: about a tornado where a girl was literally abducted from
46:24
Speaker 2: a hospital basement by two unidentified men. So it was
46:28
Speaker 2: just unlike any other case like this that I've ever
46:30
Speaker 2: seen before, And I really can't come up with a
46:32
Speaker 2: theory that makes one hundred percent complete sense. But I
46:35
Speaker 2: will agree that the best case scenario is maybe it
46:38
Speaker 2: was just some sort of clerical error that maybe they
46:40
Speaker 2: were planning to deliver her to her father, but for
46:43
Speaker 2: whatever reason, they went to the wrong hospital, there was
46:46
Speaker 2: a miscommunication, and because they couldn't figure out her identity,
46:50
Speaker 2: she wound up being adopted out to another family and
46:52
Speaker 2: lived the rest of her life and happiness. I mean,
46:55
Speaker 2: is there's always hope that we can solve something like this.
46:58
Speaker 2: I know that a couple months ago, Jules and I
47:00
Speaker 2: did a Patreon exclusive minisod about the disappearance of two
47:05
Speaker 2: year old Mary Agnes Moroni, who went missing all the
47:07
Speaker 2: way back in nineteen thirty and just a couple of
47:10
Speaker 2: years ago. They used genetic genealogy to determine that Mary
47:14
Speaker 2: Agnes lived the rest of her life under a false
47:16
Speaker 2: identity with a different family and went on to have
47:19
Speaker 2: a family of her own before she died of natural
47:21
Speaker 2: causes in two thousand and one. But they were able
47:24
Speaker 2: to prove her identity by tracking down her genetic relatives
47:28
Speaker 2: and doing DNA testing, So that could have happened to
47:32
Speaker 2: Joan Gay. Perhaps she has already died of natural causes
47:35
Speaker 2: and was unaware that she was taken from her birth family,
47:38
Speaker 2: and that is the best case scenario. But after all
47:41
Speaker 2: these years, we probably may never know. But because of
47:43
Speaker 2: genetic genealogy in DNA, there's always a possibility that even
47:47
Speaker 2: if she is already dead, we may actually find out
47:50
Speaker 2: what happened to her.
47:53
Speaker 4: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
47:54
Speaker 4: about the trailment Cold Patreon.
47:56
Speaker 2: Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
47:59
Speaker 2: years now. We offer these standard bonus features like early
48:03
Speaker 2: ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and
48:07
Speaker 2: sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with
48:09
Speaker 2: us on Patreon if you join our five dollars tier
48:12
Speaker 2: Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in which
48:16
Speaker 2: I talk about cases which are not featured on the
48:19
Speaker 2: trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon
48:22
Speaker 2: and if you join our highest tier tier free, the
48:25
Speaker 2: ten dollar tier. One of the features we offer is
48:28
Speaker 2: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,
48:32
Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
48:35
Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
48:39
Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
48:42
Speaker 2: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
48:45
Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
48:49
Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
48:52
Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
48:54
Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
48:57
Speaker 2: ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then sure to join Tier three.
49:01
Speaker 4: So I want to let you know a little bit
49:03
Speaker 4: about the Jules and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad
49:06
Speaker 4: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
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Speaker 4: Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so
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Speaker 4: they're not very mini, but they're just too short to
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Speaker 4: turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,
49:17
Speaker 4: so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link
49:19
Speaker 4: them in the show notes.
49:21
Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
49:23
Speaker 2: any chance you have to share us on social media
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49:28
Speaker 2: appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at
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Speaker 2: gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at
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Speaker 2: the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle
49:36
Speaker 2: up because cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing.
49:40
Speaker 1: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy