Latest / Pit Talk / Five stories to watch in F1's season return: Dutch GP Preview

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Five stories to watch in F1's season return: Dutch GP Preview · Pit Talk

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: On today's episode, Formula one returns from its mid season
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: break this weekend with the Dutch Grand Prix, the first
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: of twelve or maybe eleven races to decide the title,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and new Team Cadillac makes the shock call to sack
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: team principal Graham Loudon just eleven races into the season.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: My name's Michael Lamonado. It's great to have your company
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and the company of my co host. He's enjoyed the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: F one mid season break, but deep down he is
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: truly looking forward to having just two weekends without motorsport
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: between now and the end of the year. It's Matt Clayton,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: That is a confronting way to start this podcast. Michael,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I must say, But now that you have said that,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I am going to relish the memories of Motorsport free
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: weekend and basking those for a few more days yet,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: because it might be about what December do we get
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: another one? But lots of intrigue in various world championships
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: still to come down down the WI for us. I'm
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: looking for to that. But yeah, I did enjoy sleeping
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: like a normal human being for three straight nights.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It was great, yes, but no longer very rare and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: no longer so I hope you did enjoy it. And
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: as you say, yes, championships a design obviously in all
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: three of our premier motorsport categories, both here in Moto
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: GP and the supercars. But we'll focus on Formula One
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: now because it is resuming after those three weekends off
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the sport. Three rounds left in Europe before the flyaway
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: season begins, which of course includes races in Singapore and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Bahrain brackets Malaysia, which is very exciting obviously with the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Australian time zone, but just in general to go back
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to a new circuit that could prove a little bit
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: of a twist in that final chapter of this championship.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: But I thought we take this through, Matt by looking
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: at some of the big questions still to be answered
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in the second half of this season. How many races
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: it is that we're going to get. We'll take it
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: on turns and see if we can cover as much
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ground as we can. But what are you looking forward
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to finding out in this last twelve or eleven or
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: x number of races?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a frustrating one. Is that should probably be
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: one of our questions how many rounds do we actually
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: you have left? But I'm going to start. I think
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: it's an obvious one, but I think it's it's defining
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: for so many people in this question. Is my first
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: question is can anyone actually catch Andrea Kimi Antonelli at
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: this point? Now we know what the numbers say, it's
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: a fifty point championship lead with in certain number of
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: races left. Here, It's more than just the points for me,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: because you know we discussed on our previous podcast, this
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: is a scenario that of all the things that we
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: might have considered might happen in this first year of
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: a rule set, I'm not sure Antonelli with a fifty
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: point championship lead at the halfway mark was on anyone's
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: been go card, quite frankly, and so having arrived at
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: this point that we perhaps didn't expect what happens from
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: here and it is a significant lead, and can anyone
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: catch him? Because the moment you start thinking about candidates
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: to catch him, you find reasons to talk yourself out
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of it. And that's one of the most interesting questions
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: for me. For the rest of the season. Is this
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: fifty point margin already decisive or enough given that we
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: have half or just under arficas are still to go.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Let me give you two key statistics that might go
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: some way to answering that question. The first is the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: biggest margin. I'll ask you this question. See you've you've
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: got quite the brain for statistics. That's if you remember
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: any of these biggest margin, biggest leads in a season
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: without winning the world title? Who was it in what year?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Oh man? So this is going to be skewed, of
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: course by sprint race points, isn't it. I'm wondering if
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: it's going to be that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But the point the modern point system too, I guess
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: is a big one here.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, modern point part of me wonders, and I might
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: sink in my chair when you say this. It wasn't
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: bark Weber in twenty ten, body James? Was it? No good?
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So very close? It was Fernando Orlonzo and twenty twelve
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: who I had to go back and double tech. But
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: this was right, forty points he led by without winning
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: that title. So this would be the biggest title loss
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: if you want to spin it that way. Antonality were
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: not to retain this lead. This one may be more
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: important in terms of answering that question. You say, who
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: could do it? If someone was going to biggest comeback
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: in F one history can again skewed by the modern
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: point system. But I'll just give you the answer for
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: this one, Max Forstappen coming back from forty six points
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: down in twenty twenty.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Two, twenty two, after Charla Claire won the Australian Grand Prix. Yes,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what it was. It was after Charla Clair
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: won Theustralian Grand Prix.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was obviously much earlier in the season.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it was after three rounds. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: do remember writing that that year when Leaclaire won here,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: so that was one of those situations where great driver
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: in very good car made a slow start. So you know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you don't want to put asterisks on these things, but
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: that's wholly explainable. The Alonso Ferrari stat is I probably
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: should have picked that just on the of course, since
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: happened to Fernando, because things happened to Fernando, but it
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: does also it's interesting though that you mentioned that, because
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: it does illustrate even if you look at the sprint
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: race era and the fact there are more points on
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: off and now you do see what a massive gap
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: this is historically, and it would take some sort of
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: complete implosion or a complete form reversal from somebody else
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: to be able to turn this around. And so that
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we just all say, well, let's stop
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: bother doing the last nine, ten, eleven, thirty seven races,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: however many of them there are, and we all go
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: home for the rest of the year. But it is
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: really interesting in that we probably didn't expect him to
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: be this far ahead, and so far ahead that it
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: would take a collapse of historic proportions.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Too, And the collapse is the key point. I think
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the other element just to use twenty twelve as that parallel.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: This wasn't one of the most dominant endings of a
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: season for Sebastian medal in that run and that run
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of titles, but it certainly was the re emergence of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing. I guess a stronger team in the
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: second half of the season. I guess that's what we're
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: looking for. That's the tentative setup we've got at this point,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: isn't it. Because we've got Ferrari that continues to tease
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that it might be in championship contention. Lewis Hamilton is
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the closest challenger at fifty points down, so even less
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: said about George Russell's further back. If there's any team
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: perhaps that's poised without when to preempt any of the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: other questions it might be coming up, I guess that
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: could be Ferrari. It's up to Ferrari to prove it.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: If it can be the Red Bull Racing of twenty twelve,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So that's because of the engine upgrade or whether it's
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: because of other car upgrades that are coming, you know.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Can it be old versus new Lewis Hamilton versus Kimi
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Antonelli literally the driver who replaced Hamilton at Mercedes versus
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: with the guy previously won titles in that seat. That's
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the setup.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Who's writing these scripts. That would be fantastic for the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: narrative if that was to happen. I still have a
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: little trouble in believing that as probably a question we'll
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: get too further in this further in this segment, but
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I'm going to move us along to the next question
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: because I figured we might start tripping over some of
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the other questions if we don't get off this one.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: If you had another question to pose for the however
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: many races we have for the rest of twenty twenty six,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: where are you taking us?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I was going to take us too Ferrari, but I
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: feel like that's sort of part of the ant and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: other question isn't so let me take it in a
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: slightly left field direction. Coming off the back of the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Hungarian Grand Prix, which Landon Norris won so emphatically and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Osco Piastri probably could have finished in one two formation,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the qurebox done its job and made it to the finish.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask whether I'm McLaren could win title.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I still think that's almost too much of an outside
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: chance to do it. But how many more races does
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: McLaren win in the second half of the season, What
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: kind of high all does it go out this year
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: heading into twenty twenty seven, which I feel like is
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: probably already the question at Red Bull, for example, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven becomes the aim there. McLaren feels
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: like it might be right on the precipice between trying
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: to get the most out of this year and just
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: throwing it all in for twenty twenty seven because there's
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a lot on. You know, it's been a while since
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: we've really talked about McLaren other than that hungry win,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: which is surprising for the defending constructors champion. Lando Norris,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the defending driver's title winner, has only one victory in
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the sprint victory to his name this season. It's probably
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: been In fact, I did sort of only a cursory
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: look at this, one of the Lympists with through no
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: fault to his Ownlympus title defenses for a long time
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: usually and unsurprisingly is the case here as well due
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to regulation changes. But can McLaren look like the defending
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: title team that it is this season? I think that's
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: that's a big question for me in the second half
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of the campaign.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, massively so. And let's just say there's going to
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: be eleven more rounds. I don't like sticking asteris skool
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: this whole eleven twelve thing. Let's just say it's going
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: to be eleven from now on.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: It would not.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Surprise me in the slightest if McLaren and Mercedes One
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a similar number of races over the final eleven rounds.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I could see them perhaps winning you know, five to
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: four in Mercedes favor or something along those lines. Adding
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: for the fact that you might get a max for
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: staff and in winn there if it's rain somewhere or Ferrari,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: but win a race or two, I could almost see
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: McLaren being Mercedes' closest challenger for the remaining granger of
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the in terms of pace. Now, I don't know if
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: that's necessarily going to show up in terms of the
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: championship table, because I mean, you look where Lando Noris
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: is hiss what one hundred and twenty eight points right now,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Kimie Agnelli's two hundred and nineteen. It is a massive,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: massive gap. So I don't expect the McLaren drivers to
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: feature in the Driver's Championship, but I do expect McLaren
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to move forward from here necessarily. And you mentioned before
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: about being the defending Drivers and Constructors champion. There's something
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: about that when you're balancing what you've done previously and
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: then what you do in the future. It wouldn't surprise
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: me if other teams maybe switch tack for twenty twenty
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: seven earlier than McLaren do. And I can see McLaren
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: giving Mercedes a lot more of a run for its
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: money in the second half than did the first half.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think so. And I think there's the element of
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the consistent regulations makes that a little bit less of
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: a costly decision to make last year. That was a big,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: big part of It's part of the reason Red Bull
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Racing struggling this year. They pushed on really hard last
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: year a little bit for McLaren as well, but it's
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a little bit of different circumstance there. So that's an
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: interesting extra element, particularly given that last McLaren upgrade, the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: one in Hungary. It feels like change the concept of
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the car to something it can build on for many years,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: where some other teams maybe need to make that decision
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: but haven't yet. That again, to point at Red Bull
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Racing may be very much the case. They're considering that
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: car is so all over the planes.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Ye.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I want to look at this a little bit more
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: from the Piastre perspective as well. This is the Fox
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Onors podcast, of course, and I could be remissive me
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to say, and even the Dutch Grand Prix that we
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: are approaching or have approached the one year anniversary last victory,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: so in looking for McLaren's next victory. How long does
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that drought run for? Does it run for exactly one year?
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And does this weekend the weekend that he can close
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that loop? Well, how much longer does Oscar Piastre have
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: to wait for that next win? And of course that
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: being in the context of Hungary. While it would have
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: been a great opportunistic victory considering you took the lead
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: of the first lap, wasn't wouldn't have been a victory
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: on pure pace And that's been part of the story
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: for Pastre's season so far.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, he was very good in Hungary,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: that's true. He was also the second best McLaren drivery hungry,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: that's also true. And so that's probably a way to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: look at this for the remainder of the season. Now
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: we know that Hungary has been a strong Pstre's obviously
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: one there, but Hungary has been a strong Norris track
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: over the years. That one year anniversary is a little
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: bit sad to a degree because he was so ahead
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: of schedule last year. But you would imagine that of
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: all the drivers, if you look up and down the
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: driver's standings right now, who you wouldn't say guaranteed to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: have a better second half than the first half. He'd
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: be one that I would be very surprised at the
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: second half of his season is as sort of saying middlely,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's been mediocre or poor by any stretch.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It just hasn't been as good as perhaps we would
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: have thought. So he feels like a guy to me
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: who's going to have a stronger second half than the
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: first half. Now where that leads him, and how competitive
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: is McLaren relative to Mercedes, Little Owned, Red Bull and Ferrari,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: We're not quite sure yet, but it is an interesting one.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And that one year stat Yeah, it's a little confronting,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I got to say, because symp this side last year
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: we were preparing to ticket Tate Parade for Australia's first
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: World Chair, which is nineteen eighty. He didn't quite work
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: out like that. But yeah, an interesting one because I
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: feel that he could also be another candidate in one
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: of my questions, and I'm going to ask later, but
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to preempt that right now.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, just before you move on, I want to
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: throw one more statistic. Do you since that Dutch Grand
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Prix victory when we were talking about. We were memorizing
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: those stats, first world titles in Idea and so on.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: McLaren has won only three Grand Prix, two more with
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Lando Norris last year and of course the third with
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Lando Norris a couple of weeks ago in Hungary. Of course,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: there would have been another one and that would have
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: changed all of this had Oscopiastri won and cut out
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: like he should have done, had it not been for
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: a strategic blunder from the team. But that's really quite
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: a It's a year now of fairly nothing form from
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: McLaren as much as of course they won both titles
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: last year, and that is the story. I don't want
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: to say it's been the decline because the story is
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: too complex for that, and I don't think it has
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: really been truly a true decline for the team, but
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: it's clearly been a bit more of a peter out
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that's lasted longer than just this season, which I think
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: is an interesting element of that story. Tell us your
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: third question before we look at some other matters and
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: finish this list. What's the third thing you're looking for
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: this season.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy you haven't gone here yet, because I'm
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: going to ask you the question and then remain silent
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: while you furiously scramble and try and come up with
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: an answer, because I've got one for here. In twenty
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: twenty six in sports discussion, we love talking about legacy,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: don't we. So here's my question for you. Who has
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the most on the line over the remaining of the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: second half of this season? Who has the most up
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: for grabs or on the line. It can be a team,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: it can be a driver who really needs a big
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: second half to this season.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: In your eyes, that's a great question, and I think
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: it has to be. There are a couple of good
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: answers to this question. Actually, let me take the obvious
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: one and give you a little bit more of a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: left field one. The obvious one's George Russell, right, because
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I know we've talked about this, talk about this the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: start of the year, and certainly when the tide began
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: to turn against him, which was there was much more
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: on the line in that battle with Antonelly for him
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: than there was with Antonell. He's in his second year,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Kim he Antonelli. No one expect him to win the title.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: He wins the title, it's pretty remarkable, but also a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: bit of a bonus for him, whereas Russell, the expectation
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is he should close this one out. You're short of,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: as we mentioned, a complete form turnaround for Mercedes and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: some other team and neither driver wins it, in which
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: case I guess nothing's lost for him. There is. There's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: reputational matters at stake here, and I think statistically is
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: too far behind to win the title. Be good do it?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: We don't know, but he's got to at least give
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: a good account of himself here, make his teammates sweat
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And we've talked about maybe the last
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: question Antonelli needs to answer is can he maintain his
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: composure as well? He won't be a teenager by the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: end of that, he'll be twenty years old. But in
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: just his second season, as it comes down to the wire,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: if there's some pressure from behind him from other drivers,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: can he keep him composure? That's sort of the last
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: test for him this year. George Russell should be the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: driver asking that question. But the more left field solution
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: here I think is quite possibly Adrian Neuiy, the legendary
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Bard designer. We've had a little bit of a hint
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: at what he can do at Aston Martin. Obviously, with
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that big hungry upgrade, was a pretty considerable step forward,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: but in the grand scheme of things still only put
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Aston Martin kind of at the back of the midfield,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: which you would have to have said, well, would have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: been even beneath expectations before this season started. You know,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't believe that, you know, a disappointing
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: ending to a career ever colors or overshadows all the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: previous grade achievements, like if Lewis Hamilton, Peter's out without
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: an eighth world title. I mean, he's sort of saved
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: himself this year, hasn't he. But if this he hadn't happened,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: you can't say, well, it proves all the other things
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: he achieved rubbish. That's not how it works, and I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: don't think that's where that how it works with Nui.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: But this is he's deliberately taken a really quite a
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: big bite for this final chapter of his career, hasn't
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: he By taking on the team principalship, which is more
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: responsibility all the buck stops with him. He reckons he
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: can do it. Combined with the technical element of turning
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: this car around. I think there's a lot on the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: line for how we view this final chapter, not just
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: for him, but for the Aston Mah team in general,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: because if you can't work with Adrian Newey designing the car,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: that is a probably more of an eighteen month question,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: just a six month question at least. I think there's
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: it has to work. This has to work in the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: second half of you we have to see good signs.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good, really good pig. It's not
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: where I was going with this, and I'll tell you
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: where I was going. I am going to go in
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a second. But it's really interesting the line you said
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: then about how you know if this does not work,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: this doesn't cloud what he's done over the balance of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: his extraordinarily successful career. This to me is I'm going
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: to switch to another sport here that I know a
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: lot about, you, dough. This is the Michael Jordan Washington
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Wizard zero here. Because no one remembers Michael Jordan playing
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: for them. They remember him as a world champion, Chicago
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Bulls MVP, greatest player in the history of basketball, and
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: that oh that bit at the end, but it was
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: a bit crap. No one really talks about that, So
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: you do wonder if this is going to be the
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Adrian Newey story. But who has the most on the line?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Can I introduce the third candidate to the chat? And
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: this one will make you scratch your head a little bit?
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I think it might be Lewis Hamilton. Okay, that's the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: reason being. God interesting. The reason being is that you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: as much as we were saying we didn't expect Kimmy anstells,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you have this big championship lead at the mid season point.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think many people would have expected Lewis Hamilton
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: to be the leading Ferrari driver in the Championship in
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six at the mid season break, given what
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five was like, given that you know, whether
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: age is relevant or not, he is in his forties.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Now is the way we see these things. It's really
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: interesting to me, as over the course of the rest
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: of the season, do I believe Ferrari's going to win
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the World Championship. No, But if this lead and the
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: ascendant Ferrari driver still is Hamilton, if he is the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: leading Ferrari driver at the end of the season, that
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: says a lot about him. It also says quite a
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: bit about charl Leclair. So I think it's a really
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: interesting inflection point for both drivers within Ferrari because this
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: is not the hierarchy within Ferrari that most people would
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: have expected. A generally and b after what happened in
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Now you can't say that a seven
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: time world champion has a massive amount on the line.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: If he's not going to win the world championship just
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: beating his teammates, so what. But given where it's been
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: for the last couple of years, it would be a
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: very surprising story. But if Leclair was to u Sir
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Hamilton as the better Ferrari driver over the course of
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the season in the balance of twenty twenty six, I
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: think that says a fair bit about both of them.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I think that it's really interesting because I haven't thought
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that much about the context of the Ferrari drivers yet,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't feel like there's been that much on
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the line.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: True, I really like the way you've taken this, because
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: there was, you know, thinking back to when Hamilton announced
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: he was moving, obviously such a big story. There was
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a great setup. There wasn't that Charlete Clair, the driver
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: who has never had the machinery to really prove very
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: much at Ferrari. You know, one way or another's going
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to get a benchmark whether he's going to contend with
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the title or not, because Lewis Halmon's going to be there.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Hamilton was so underwhelming last year that we sort of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: just rode him off as being a relevant force, I think,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and just assumed that that story was done. And yet
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: where the story sits exactly right now to mid season break,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: where regardless of whether or don't you think I was
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: going to win the title right now, there's no decision
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: either way. It almost feels like it's arrived at a
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: place where everyone's a bit of a winner. Like Hamilton's
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: got that Ferrari win. He's proved last year wasn't the
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: end of the story. If he retired at the end
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: of this year. I think he would retire on a
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: depending exactly what happens, on a relative high of having
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: achieved the Ferrari dream of racing there and winning a
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: race and being among the Ferrari winners, all that kind
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of stuff. The Claire hasn't really lost any skin in
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this game because he's proved he's still as fas as
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: everyone thought he was. He's probably gonna end up or
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: we don't know, I guess, but he's at a very
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: minimum on par with Lewis Hamilton, the statistic the greatest
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: driver of all time. Nothing to sniff at there, it's
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: kind of wraps up in a neat package. But if
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: this actually does head towards a title contention, title contending
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: last few rounds, even if they don't get it over
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the line, then suddenly both drivers are tested in a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: way that I think when Hamilton said he was joining
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: no one probably deep down really expected it to be
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the case because Ferrari, it's been so long since they've
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: actually done it. And then that reveals, you know, the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: championship boy reveals everything. You learn everything in a title fight.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Then we understand, okay, how close is Hamilton to his best?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: How good is Leclaire? Can he close that deal? Then
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you know, you wonder who they're racing against in that context,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: what's happening at Mercedes. I guess so, because suddenly you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have another passing of the Batton kind of championship challenge.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: If Leclair can haul himself back in terms of points,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: if we in fact get there, it's a really interesting take.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It's sort of a legacy question that's going under the
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: radar a little bit because we're waiting to see if
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it becomes real, I guess. But if we do get
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the Ferrari challenge, then I think that's that's absolutely right.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: There's so much on the line for Lewis Hamilton in particular.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I think the best thing about this question is I
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: don't feel there's a right and wrong answer to it,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and whatever the outcome is is fascinating either way. So
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I'm all for it happening because i'd love to see,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: you know, you add the element of championship pressure. We've
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: said this on this podcast before. I think the best
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: we ever saw Lewis Hamilton was the closing stretch of
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, where he obviously didn't win that championship.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: He was unbelievably good in that championship fight towards the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: end with Max to Stappen, and we know what happened,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: but you know, is he able to dial that up
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: five years later with so much at stake? And then
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: we find out about someone like Leclair in that situation
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: because we've never seen it, you know, it's theoretical with
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: him more than his actual So that's it's a really
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: interesting question. I think still think your Adrian knwe what
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: might be better, frankly, but I'm just really curious as
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: to how this intro Ferrari situation plays out, because it's
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: not a starting point as in right now that we
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: probably expected. I would say, all.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Right, before we complete this list, let's go to Move
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: of the Week, brought to you by Shannons. We picked
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a hell of a week for it. No racing any
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: categories over the course of the weekend, plenty of racing
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to come this weekend, and as I said, for the
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: rest of the year, for the rest of your life.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: But there was one big move bat and we agreed
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: to this move of the week beforehand, and I think
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: it's fair enough, which was Cadillac sacking team principal Graham
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Louden really out of nowhere, regardless of whether you thought
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Louden was there for the long haul or not, to
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: do it in the middle of the shutdown period of
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the mid season break as it was late last week,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: by a press release with no prior warning, and in fact,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to have told Graham Louden on the morning of that
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: announcement really was something really one of the brutal moves
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you expected, probably teams that aren't brand new and Cadillac
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: and still finding their feet. I thought a couple of
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: interesting elements of this. He was replaced, by the way,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: by March and Bukovski. You might remember for pretty nearly
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: quarter of a century really in Formula One, starting with
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Prost and then making his way through Ferrari and McLaren,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the FIA and even LP in its most chaotic era. Yes,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and now he's landed probably at a team less chaotic
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: than that. But they's release announcing this described it as
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a planned leadership transition, which really has all the hallmarks
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of HR speak. That probably wasn't It was probably approved
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: by quite a few people, because then team CEO Dan
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Towers and a press conference subsequently admitted that he made
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the decisions, it wasn't mutual, and that he told out
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: in a few hours before announcing it. It was a surprise. Look,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it's a surprise in the first half of you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: eleven race into the season, one of surely the shortest
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: team principalships in the sports history, certainly for a manufacturer
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: brand as Cadillac. Is what did you make of it?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just hoping that his appearance on the Pit
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Talk podcast was at the beginning of the intra Graham Loudam.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: But maybe it extended his career. Maybe it's going to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: happen earlier.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Possibly it did gave him a stay of execution. I
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: really I found this really surprising, simply because, not necessarily
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: because Graham Louden was the greatest team principle of all
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: time or the worst or what have you were to
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: describe him. I'm not sure what else someone in that
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: position was supposed to do for a first year manufacturer
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: team in the first year of a very very seismic
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: F one rule change. To my mind, I mean we've
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: said this before on the podcast this year, they have
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: been a very credible first year Formula One team given
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: the amount of change and just how difficult it was.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I think he mentioned earlier on this season that he
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: said it was they were building the plane as they
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: were flying it or something, one of those sort of analogies,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: which I really quite liked. But I was more surprised,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: not necessarily because he was doing an amazing or not
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: an amazing job, but what was it about? What he
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: was or was not doing that made them think that
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: a change now was the right way to go about it.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: So maybe this was one of those you know, he
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: sets the team up, he gets it rolling, then we
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: bring somebody else in. But all of the media that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: came out in the press or release, and that just
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the wording of what Dan Towris had said earlier after
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: the release had come out, this clearly wasn't a plan
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: that Louder was necessarily aware of or on board with.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So that was what made it really interesting to me.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what they gain necessarily out of this,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: other than the appearance that they are taking the way
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: this first season has gone seriously and we're looking to
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: move forward. But he couldn't. I don't know about you,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: but I don't think they have underachieved at all, because
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the scale of the task that they are trying to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: do in twenty twenty six is so monumental. I'm not
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: sure what it was that necessitated a change, to be honest.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a confusing one because there are two sort
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of ways of looking at this one. One. I think
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the appointment of Bukowski to go to that element of
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a first is unsurprising in the sense that he very
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: much is continuing the current trend of having real engineers
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: as team principles. It's almost every team I think. The
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: only two exceptions really of Fred Vasser it's a long
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: term team manager, so it's a little bit an exception.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Then Toto Wolf, who's sort of almost the last of
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the team owner slash managers. And they're the only ones
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: who aren't engineers. You think of Andrea Stella engineer, Laura
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Mechi as an engineer, Alan permains an engineer, like all
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the team rinss. You can ruttle off there, all of
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that that guy's and Graham Laden has a like a
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: an academic engineering background. I'm sure he knows his way around,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: but he's not the same kind of engineer, so that's
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: very different. So on that side, it's sort of just like, well,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Cadillac's catching up to where the sport is moving and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: they get that. But on the other hand, while this
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: has been a very credible start, as we've said, the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: problem isn't that you need to take that next step
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: where you need an engineering I wouldn't have thought so anyway,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Perhaps team clearly things different. Why it's surprising because I
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: didn't feel like that was the missing piece that's going
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: to haul the team up. There's clearly a lot of
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: process errors and procedural problems, and even just the rate
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: at wish this team is growing in terms of staff
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: still means you're constantly changing the culture and the dynamic
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: inside the team. On the one hand, you can say, well,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: this is the time to change a person on the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: top because you can set that culture. But on the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: other hand, it just doesn't feel like the part that
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: needed to be changed in the same way we say,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: you know, for struggling teams, where you can turf out
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: an underperforming driver, but it's not going to change your
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: season because the car is the ceiling here. So I'm
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit surprised from that sense. You know, we
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: know that the team is perhaps stalled a little bit
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: in the last month. That's largely because of reliability problems,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: almost all of which are related to the front breaks
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: or suspension. He's changing the team. Princes were going to
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: change that, probably not, So it's just a little bit
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: surprising that's happened now into the season. Would have been
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: far less surprising because then you could have also sold it, well,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: he's got the team up and running. Look how credibly
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: this team's gone, but now we need to find the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: next step. The ruthlessness of it, I think is the surprise.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that and the fact that I feel that they've
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: been sort of quite methodical and sensible all of the
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: communication out of the team, the way they've presented themselves
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: approached everything over the course of the season. It felt
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: credible because it was sensible that it wasn't jumping at
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: shadows and it was just going to take its time
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to bed in. And this feels the very opposite of that.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: So maybe there's a story we don't know about yet
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: that might come to light in the fullness of time.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: But it was just not in keeping with the way
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that they have approached this first season, and that was
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the thing that probably surprised me the most.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It now has been some chat about as the
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: team attempts to move some of its functions to the
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: United States, that hasn't all been received completely happily from
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the UK staff. We've been told to move to use
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it or lose it, Move it or lose it, I
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: guess we could say like that. So there's a little
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: bit of there is a little bit of something going
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: on behind the scenes there which I think is interesting,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: but I'm sure that'll come to light once the sport resumes.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: It's a beauty making these big announcements during the break,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: very hard to follow up on that's going on. Let's
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: get back to our list now of the things that
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: we're looking forward to or expecting from the last part
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: of this season, and I'll take us I think it's
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it's with the next one. I'm going to go with
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: one of the questions that I thought we'd already have
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: some answers to by now but really don't, and that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: is we've had virtually no action at all on the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: driver market front. Yes, now, I think this comes down
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: really to two drivers, Max for Stappen and Fernando Alonzo.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: They're kind of the ones that everyone's waiting to see
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: if they can get into Red bull racing, and then
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: everyone's waiting to see if Aston Martin is the team
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: of last resort for them, although wait and see how
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: much the team improves over the second half of the season.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: But for me, the question is, because this is the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: way I think it's going, tell me if you think
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But how does Max for Staffen now sell
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: that he actually wants to stay at Red Bull Racing,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: because that seems to be his only option, sure quitting
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the sport, which I don't think he's going to do,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: but he could surprise us. How does he sal it
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: this year? You know, last year he didn't go out
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: on such a limb. I feel like, but maybe that's
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: just sort of Nostalgia's not the right word, but my
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: memory kind of glossing over some of the details. But
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: this year it's felt much more antagonistic that relationship with quitting.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: We also know he does have the exit clause, so
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: his last year that wasn't ever actually an option. How
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: does he turn around and say, no, what are you
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: guys talking about? Actually? I love it here.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I think the exit clauses clouded Slash prompted a lot
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: of the conversations this year because that wasn't something we
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: needed to talk about last year. Last year we discussed
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: this on the pot a couple of times. Last year
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: we found out that not only was he the best
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: champion in the sport, he was also the best underdog
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: because he just relished in the role of playing spoiler agitator.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I mean the fact he almost won that World championship
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: last year in retrospect is absolutely insane. So it's a
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: curious one. I take a slight disagreement with the two
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: corks in the driver market bottle right now because I
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: do think that and a lot so either is where
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: he is or he's not there at all, whereas Vastapan,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: anyone would break the bank to sign him tomorrow. How
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: does he rationalize this through the rest of the season.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: It'd be amazing what a win would do for the
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: just the narrative in terms of it's been so many
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: seasons now that he has won at least one Grand Prix,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: and that'll be something that we talk about the longer
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: this calendar goes. If there isn't a win and we
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: get down to the last three or four races, and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: it will be, well, it's the first year since two
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: thousand and I don't even know what it would be seventeen.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I suppose since he won a Grand Prix and didn't
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: win a Grand Prix, and we'll be talking a lot
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: about that. But you do one of there needs to
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: be some sort of internal motivation because I struggle to
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: see how they're going to suddenly be transformed into the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: front of the fight unless and this is the caveat
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: here we know there are certain tracks where he's absolutely fantastic.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: You add certain weather condition, mean Zaanfort coming up is
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: very very good. Could you just see a sketchy Verstap
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and Salplo half wet, half drive victory. They're just papers
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: over so many of the cracks with these things. So
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I think a win would do a lot, and ultimately
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a pointless one because it's not going to have him
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: figuring in the front end of the World Championship for
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the first time in a long time. But it is
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: a really interesting question and the driver market, it feels
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: like the story that we just to use one of
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: your favorite expressions, kick the can down the road and
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: just talk about it at other time, because like, oh,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I had nothing to see here. We'll just keep moving,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: We'll just keep moving. And here we are and it's
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the middle of August and I kind of feel that
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: we're still stuck in first gear with this thing.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think you're on both cats. I
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: think that a stapp and thing. I think a win
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: will be important. I do think you Dutch grum Pri
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: would be a great opportunity. Last touch Grand Prix. This, yes,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we should mention as well, because that's dropping off the
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Calendra after this is an obvious one. He's always been
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: very good at Brazil. I think you've picked Troo great
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: ones there and the car is clearly good enough occasionally
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: to put him in the frame and then he can
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: make the difference. I mean, let's not forget how he
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: came so close to it in Brazil last year from
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the back of the grid, wasn't it way back with
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: engine penalties and then continued that championship run. So it's
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: clearly going to be possible even if the car is
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: not there. As for Stapan has demonstrated for his entire
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: career pretty much. Yeah, that other element of the broader
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: driver market. The reason I raise Fernando or Alonso is
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: because someone would have to go there if he quit,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the interesting element, is because someone
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: would have to and someone would decide to take that gamble.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Think about a couple of frustrated drivers in the midfield.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: I think about the the Williams drivers in particular. By
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the time this decision is made, now Azerbaijan's not that
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: far away month and a bit. That's when Williams brings
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: its big up go Withy're already saying it's not even
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: going to be close to enough to compete with Aston
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Martin for the rest of the year. I mean, if
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: that Aston Martin trajectory continues to improve, why wouldn't you
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: take a gamble on a team that on paper should
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: be doing much better than it is and may well
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: be doing much better than this in the next couple
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: of years. Maybe a little bit question over Alpine. Franco
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Colopindo has been quite a ratic this year, but they
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: seem like they want to keep him. Everywhere else it
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: seems pretty stable, but if Alonso goes, it creates a
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: little bit of a vacuum that has to be filled,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: and then maybe driver's shuffle. And of course we say
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: everyone's waiting to try and get into Red Bull racing,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: but I'm very much inclined to believe there's just not
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: going to be an availability there. So it's all about
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the MIDI.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Now and the Aston thing for me is interesting because
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: as much as there are many credible drivers for that
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: particular seat, I get the sense that both team and driver,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: this is not just going to be a seat that's
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: filled by anyone. They need a name in inverted commas,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: so I don't know if they're necessarily going to go
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: and sign, you know, promising driver with limited CV. This
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: strikes me as they need proven Grand Prix winner comes
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: in to head the team to save the day, because
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: you have to look at it in the context of
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the resource. And we mentioned Adrian Newey before, and they've
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: got the name and they've got everything else, and the
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: other driver that they have clearly is not going to
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: be winning a world championship no matter what it is
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: that he's driving. So I think that means you need
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: a genuine A lister. And as much as there's a
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: lot of people that could take the seat, there's not
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: a massive amount of genuine A listers out there, are there.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: So that's the interesting part for me. I think that
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: the pool of drivers for a potential Red Bull Racing
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: seat would actually be larger than the pool of drivers
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: for a potential Aston Martin's seat. There's one for you.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: That's a good one, and I think that's probably certainly
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: more attractive seat at the rid of them. But I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: think you're right on that one. Let's bring it home, Matt,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: what's your last question for the second half of the season.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I think this is a short answer to a longish
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: sort of a question. But we talk about twenty twenty
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: six and where the World Championship is going, so of course,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: you know, to quote the great Genarogotuso, sometimes win, sometimes lose,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And so my question is who switches focus to twenty
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: twenty seven first, assuming that some teams haven't already. And
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: my candidate for this was sort of like the flip
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: side of what we were just talking about before. At
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: what point do Red Bull just say, all right, we're
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: in Formula One to win these things. We're not going
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: to win either the drivers or constructors this year, but man,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: we can make sure twenty twenty seven is right, and
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: then you can also sell the hope to Max. The
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: stuff is like, look what we're doing behind the scenes,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: we are going to be ready to go for twenty
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: twenty seven. We're just going to play the rest of
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six out. To me, they're the most likely
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: team given that we think McLaren's going to be a
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: sendant over the course of the season. Ferrari is just
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: a giant red mystery box, as it usually is, and
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure about any of the others in terms
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: of what the thinking about. But of that top group,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: to my mind, red bulls the one that probably switches
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: to next year. First, do you agree or disagree?
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, to make sure Max with Staffen's career goes better
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and better. I think it would be the reason.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: But I think that's right. I think that's spot on,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: because I think it's it's in a funny way. Red
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Bull almost in the long term since has its cake
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and eat it. As part of the reason they pushed
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: so hard late last year was to get the Staffin
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: over the line got very close, you know, and had
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: you know, you go back to the end of last season.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: For Stappin probably was pretty convinced about the Red Bull
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: project at that point because it seemed like a lot
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of the problems have been solved. Clearly this year has
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: proved it hasn't. But if it jumps on next year,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and let's not forget one of the big question marks
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: red Bull this year was the engine package, which actually
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: has turned out to not really be an issue at all.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: It's thereabouts. I know the politics of the development concessions
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and all that is another question, but the engine itself
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: has actually turned out to be pretty competitive. Competitive enough anyway.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: That's the best of the sport. What are you talking about?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, you know what, In fact, I shouldn't
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: understand that it is the very best normal to one
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and I'll have no questions on that that give me
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: much as ever. But the car question is the big one.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: But this team, of course, has built winning cars before,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: and there are enough staff in there who haven't left
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: yet that if they can put those pieces together, it
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: seems like they're almost certain. I would say, to get
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that last shot at convincing the Stapan next season. If
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: they can have a car that at least doesn't try
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: to throw him off the road from week to week,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that it'd go a long way to selling
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: him the recovery job. Because I don't think this has
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: to be a you know, to use a football analogy,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I guess a full rebuild. They don't have to bottom out.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: You know, there's still a front running team. There's still
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I think that they will win a race before the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: end of the year, so they're still gonna be a
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: race winning team. They just have to find that equilibrium.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Having had all those big name staff changes under a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: new team Vinscible and so on and so forth. So
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: I think that they'd be very motivated to do that,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: knowing that this year is not going to give them
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: any championship glory or anything great at all. Just give
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: them a chance to get that run in. I don't
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: see any other you know, maybe McClaren becomes a candidate
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: if these next upgrade steps really don't close the gap
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: enough when we get to a couple of different circuits,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: because I think that they it's hard to say, they've
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: only had one race, but I think they're probably on
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the right track. But they've talked a lot about losing
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: those three months of development time getting back to the
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: right tracks. So if they feel like they are there
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: but that they're not really going to make it, I
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: think it's such a long shot they make any championship
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: in roads anyway. But if they feel like they can't
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: save enough face this year, then why not get those
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: three months back by essentially starting next year early in
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the ground. I can see the logic to that. The
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: big one for me, though, to round this out with
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: a thoroughly midfield team, it's got to be Williams. We
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: talked actually about people who I mean, James Vale's doesn't
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: have a particularly significant or large legacy. I guess it
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: was an important part of the Mercedes title winning era,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: but obviously a smaller name than the other people we
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: talked about. But I think this is a really big
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: inflection point for him. He talked a big game about
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: turning Williams around and this was going to be the year.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: He's now talked a lot about all these problems that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: no one realized the team had, that this season has revealed,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and that he says that they're fixing. They're already talking
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: a lot about fast forward into twenty twenty seven to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: try and put this year behind them again, essentially having
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: sold all those problems. I mean, if it can't do
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the job next year. As much as I'm loathed to
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: be the person saying where you've just got to start again,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: because Formula one is a much longer term game than that,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: it's hard to see what he argues next, like where
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the subject is next, whether the subject of focuses after that,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: because it feels like he'll have spent all of his energies,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: You've used all of his cards. So I think this
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: is actually a really significant moment once that upgraded Azerbaijan
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: arrives for the team to focus on getting next to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: his car very right, because otherwise it feels like everything
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: we've been sold for the last few years on the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: restoration of this great historic team well have come to nothing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been bad, bad, bad. It just there's no
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: other way to describe it. It's been really poor this year.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Without wanting to completely dissect everything you just said that,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I've got two things to add on the McLaren situation
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: for twenty twenty seven. That's an easier decision to make
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: when you've won a race, I think, which is the
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: opposite to where bred Bull is right now, Perhaps you
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: could make that decision. It's like, well, at least we'll
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: prove it we're good enough still win a Grand Prix.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Let's look at next year. The selling for Stappan on
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: the twenty twenty seven concept. The great thing for red
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Bull here, and I'm only being slightly flippant. You don't
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: have to have the best car if you've got Max
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: to stappand because he is Formula One's cheat code, he
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: is he is the difference maker. So if you get
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a car that is there or there abouts. He's able
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: to be the final push to get that thing to
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the front of the grid. We've seen at time and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: time again. So the pressure is onto a degree, but
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: not also on to such a degree that you have
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: to produce an absolutely incredible car because if it needs
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that extra ten percent that he provides, he's proven time
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: and time again that he can be the difference maker
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: in that situation. I reckon that's a really interesting watch
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: as we go through the end of the nine ten
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: eleven however, by rounds for the rest of twenty.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Twenty six, we'll find out. We've got plenty of weeks
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to find out how many more races we have, although
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: not that many considering the number of races we may
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: or may not have. But that's all the time we
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: have for Pittalk this week. You can subscribe to Bittalk
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and you can leave
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: us a rating a review as well. This weekend is
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: the Supercars Ipswich Super four forty with tires fully inflated
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: for races on Saturday and the feature race on Sunday
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: at three twenty pm Eastern Time. Then it's the return
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: of Formula One with the Dutch Grand Prix, which is
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a sprint weekend with lights out at eleven pm on Sunday.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: You can keep up to date with all the latest
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: F one, supercars and MotoGP news at foxsports dot com
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: dot Au. From Matt Clayton and me Michael Lomonado. Thanks
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: very much for your company and we'll catch you next time.