Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 477. A Mental Health Mission + Creating Systems Change - Haylin Dennison

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477. A Mental Health Mission + Creating Systems Change - Haylin Dennison · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Mental Health Week is presented by Instill.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Our friends at Instill have created a modern, purpose-built platform to help cultivate deeper, more holistic relationships within your community.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: They're passionate about lifting mental health and wellness because they put people first.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Check out the link in the show notes to learn more about how Instill can help you maximize your impact.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm Becky, and this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Non-profits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the Good Community.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: We're non-profit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So let's get started, becky, what's happening?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Aloha, how are you?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Are you ready to spill the tea?
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, I'm totally ready.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for having me.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: You guys are my idols.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're a true car.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You're a true car Right out of the gate.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you know this is a special week of the podcast and it's a week that we carve out every year as honestly a gift back to the sector of the space that we were looking for when we were working full-time in nonprofit, and it's Mental Health Week.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I am so honored to have Haylon Denison with us today.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: She is this incredible not only nonprofit founder but she's also a licensed clinical social worker.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: She's a mental health activist and systems expert and she is going to come in and talk about not only how do we look at like systems change, but she's also going to tell us about what is it like to be doing the work, what is it like to be pouring into our kids and helping them through their mental health journeys through her work with Spill the Tea Cafe in Hawaii.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: So it is just such an honor to introduce her.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: She has got this really deep understanding of cognitive behavioral therapy and inner self work and she's done a lot of work in the healthcare profession.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Her comprehensive knowledge of mental health systems theory, clinical practice all kind of comes together about these programs that promote resilience and self-care and after she got her graduate degrees in LA, she moved back to Hawaii with this mission to improve mental health and access treatment in her very own hometown, and this is just like a love letter back to them the Spill the Tea Cafe.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I got to really meet you a few months ago and I remember feeling so touched by the work that you do, heyland, and I'm so excited for you to walk us through a little bit of your story today of how you're meeting teenagers who we know are just this particularly vulnerable population, this group of kids that we just love that need access to mental health because of all the challenges that are really unique to this moment in time, and so I want you to talk all about those programs, but first get into this house, my friend, and it's a delight to have you in the podcast today.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I wonder, heyland, if you just take us back a little bit, because we want to get to know how did you come to be, what are these formative experiences growing up that really set you on this course, to go into this work?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: And now, obviously, you've got your hand in so many different pots.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my goodness, how far should we go back?
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I think, really, mental health has always been a part of my life, whether I knew it or not.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Early on in my life my brother got into a car accident and was left with a traumatic brain injury.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: That kind of deteriorated and there was the onset of schizophrenia, and so we kind of care, took a lot for him, and I really do think that I can't deny the fact that that experience really inspired me to do this work and to try to create a better life for myself.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: So that's kind of maybe where it started and then moving forward, it's like moving to LA and I went to USC and things were not perfect there, but they had a lot more resources than Hawaii, that's for sure, and so trying to take some of the training that I learned there and some of the innovation there and bring it back to Hawaii, while still trying to adapt it to the Hawaiian or Asian culture, has really been like an art and a science.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I actually opened Spiliti Cafe pretty recently a year and a half ago with my son, maddie, and it really came out of the need to find a therapist and during COVID, not just in Hawaii but across the entire nation there's a shortage of providers and we really felt that here on the islands.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: I would also say that Hawaii is unique in the way that we are primarily Asian, the Asian culture or the native Hawaiian culture, and so there comes a lot of stigma with mental health still, although mental health is generally being more accepted among our community.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: And so, with these problems, I think it was half like mama bear and just seeing my kids struggle and not having the resources.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: And then the other half was my frustration with the healthcare industry and community mental health and really, I guess, drove me to create a new table.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: And so Spiliti doesn't represent, just like I don't know, half my mama bear urge and half.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: The joke is that half of me was like I didn't know what I was doing.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: And now we're a year and a half in and we're fully in it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Right, we're not giving up.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: But now, from the founder standpoint, right, from being like an employee in a nonprofit, just my eyes are open I'm more angry than ever.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: And so Spiliti represents like innovation, not just a mental health clinic, but for what we want to see in the future, and what I want to see in the future is the ability to see a healthcare facility that prioritizes patients and high quality services, that incorporates the things that are absolutely necessary, like social services, right, and also care coordination the things that prevent people from falling through the cracks, like we need to have those things.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Equally important, we need to have a healthcare facility that prioritizes their physicians and their healthcare workers, and we need to create a space where our healthcare workers can also live and survive and thrive right and not be burned out, and so, anyway, it's all full circle.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's so much similarities yeah, so many similarities between entrepreneurship, healthcare, you know, mental health.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: It's just we need to create change and I think that's a big reason why I'm so thankful to be here on your podcast today.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, there is so much I want to double click on here.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: One.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: You are so fierce and you are so incredibly inspiring.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Something you said a little bit ago and I want to double click on it was you said I'm angry, I'm, I'm, I'm tired, and I have found in my healthcare philanthropy experience that there is no greater force on this earth than an angry mother.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, because they get mobilized.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: There is no quit in them, and their ability to nurture and make change for the better is their superpower and I love that and spill the tea is like the manifestation of your fierceness, of your anger and of you just saying I don't know why we're working in these systems.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You know they're broken, they don't work for everyone, yes, so you just moved over and you made a new table.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: You created spill the tea cafe.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: It was born out of this love of your child, this born out of this need for revolution in healthcare and community.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: So take us back, like, tell us this mission story, tell us about your beautiful cafe and help us fall in love with it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: I think it started when Maddie was in the fifth grade, and this is my oldest son, who is 15 now, and he, hi, maddie, yeah, and Maddie is trans, and I'm still transitioning with my pronouns for Maddie, so I just want to throw that out there, because pronouns are very important, but I do still make mistakes.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: And so Maddie goes by, he, him, and I wasn't ready to accept Maddie for being gay or wanting to cut his hair, and I really had this vision about what my child was going to be.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: And you know, there was a time where we were going to church and Maddie had a Pride flag shirt on and typically, you know, remember, I'm a therapist, I'm supposed to be open-minded, I'm supposed to be affirming, I'm supposed to be all the things, and so I would also allow Maddie to wear Pride shirts, but not to church, right?
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: So, like, maddie, take the shirt off, like I'm not trying to deal with Papa or I'm not trying to deal with any of that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: And in that moment I think what happened?
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And I try to be very careful because I want to say my story, but I also want to respect that whatever Maddie's story is, it's his story to tell.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: But what I will say in that moment was that he probably was holding in for months, if not years, right, and said Mom, you say you're supportive, you say that you don't mind that I'm gay, but you are ashamed of me.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: And I just want to ask you, like, are you ashamed of me?
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: You know, because you want me to hide parts of myself in front of certain people.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: It broke my heart, I cried, I said I'm never ashamed of you.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: I'm so proud of you.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: You know, you're one of, like, my biggest accomplishments in life.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Like, please do not ever say that.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: And I had to drown out all the noise at that moment and just say, like how can I listen to my kid?
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: How can I believe my kid, whatever my kid's going through?
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Like, how do I stop dismissing this haircut thing?
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: You know, and I let him cut his hair in seventh grade.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: There was a major change.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Like I never seen him like, just as my son, he was so much more of himself.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: And then I really credit all of this evolution and learning and healing of my entire family to the doctors that stand for gender clinic, you know.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: And they say yes, heyland, we understand that you've done all this crazy research.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: And also I also have seen like 800 kids like Maddie this year.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: So all these things and that's why I think that passion for the doctors as well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Sorry, my story is so tangential.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I also have ADHD, so that's a superpower.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: So do I Keep going?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's good, okay, okay, yeah, exactly.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: But this is why I had this.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: You know, I did have to get scrappy.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, we still are, I am still.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'll say it, I'm at this point like I'm still self-funding for the T and so I had to get scrappy.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: But my point is that when I got scrappy and had to diversify revenue streams, because you guys have a great mission, but you know, you don't have three years of 990s, right?
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: So you don't even qualify at a minimum level to apply for these grants, and now I have to learn about marketing and sales and like I'm just a therapist, you know, and so it's so overwhelming, and I think that's what keeps us all stuck.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Like this is too much.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I can't like figure this out, or you know, and I think this is why we can't create change in our industry, I offered consulting and mental health services and you know, to other people and to the med school, and then, when I started working with med students, I was working with physicians for like eight years, like maybe like retirement age.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: But then, when I went to med school, I just, I guess, reigniting of like a passion for young people, because the kids that spilled the tea, who are in my academic stress group, who have straight A's and who are suicidal.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Those become my med students that I see right.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: And then those become the doctors that I see who are burnt out and also like two and a half times more likely to die by suicide than any other profession.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: It's just not okay anymore.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Like this is not okay.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Nope, it's not okay.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: I want us to create our own system and our own policies and programs and things that we know works right.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Like we have to get back to the basics.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I think, and that's what I'm very, very proud of at Spill the Tea, even though I'm super upset that it's not where I want it to be, it's not because I can't.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Like we're stuck at that point.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: It takes more funding to adapt to the scale and trying to be super positive and also you probably can tell the reality of my day to day right now, right, and so I know that we can do this and I'm kind of like going to die on this hill.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Like that's where I'm at right now, or at least until you're three.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: We're not going to let you die and I'm just no, this movement needs to go, yeah.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I mean lots of things.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I want to just acknowledge and thank you for your story, for being vulnerable here and like we've spent time, even this season, talking about just the power of, like, authentic storytelling and I think what you just did there, I believe, breaks down walls to anybody's heart.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I mean you can't hear about your journey, hear about Maddie and like have a different way to receive that when you realize we are humans here trying to navigate these things.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: So thank you for that piece.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And Secondly, like who are the funders listening?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Let's do that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: There's people listening.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I can support this.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: You know, and I just want to acknowledge you, though, for being a founder we've spent time with founders this season talking about the founders journey.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: It is a winding path, but you are not alone.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: You know there is a community here, so anyone listening also feels alone, like there's the community of we are for good, of like how can we surround each other and support Each other?
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Because it's not for the faint of heart being the founder in that, but we just want to encourage you in that.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: So what is spilled the tea really?
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: What are the core services now?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Just like, kind of give us a quick overview of what does it look like in a given day in the walls there yes and spill the tea cafe.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: I should say Maddie came up with the name and we did that intentionally.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: The way that we market is specifically to Gen Z and also to destigmatize, right, we don't want to say adolescent mental health clinic, because who's gonna want to come?
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: And then we want to make sure that we are taking a trauma-informed lens, which means, you know, we understand the unique challenges that lgbtqi plus youth face.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: This clinic is for all youth.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, that is the point, right, that it's for all humans, all youth, and we want to make sure, though, that it's very clear that we're inclusive.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times, people be like oh, is this only for gay people?
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Of course not, it's for everyone.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: But we don't want kids to have to guess, right, like whether we're supportive or a firm.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: You're not.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: And In order to do that, the unique challenges they face like in Hawaii specifically, 50% of trans youth actually attempted suicide in the past year, and then in 2019 this is specific to Hawaii as well Asian or other Pacific Islanders and native Hawaiians.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: In 2019, samson reported that suicide was the number one leading cause of death for that for youth, and that's unheard of like that's.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: There's no other state like that.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And so I Say this because lgbtqi plus youth are placed at highest risk for suicide in our, in our community.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: The research is super clear about it being due to the discrimination they face at home and at school and the community, at church, even sports, you know, and every kid I've talked to, every single one have, has a story about being so mistreated.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: And All of our staff, they have to be trained in crisis intervention.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: They have to be trained in suicide prevention.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: They have to be trained in care coordination, right, and there's like wrap around for the youth and we know that they may not have a hot meal or they may be rejected from their family.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: So this place is intentionally set up like a, like a home, right, like there's view living room areas and TVs and ps5 and a library and Wi-Fi and music.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: And you know we give out free Boba, we're so Asian, yeah, and snacks, you know, and cup of noodle or whatever it is.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: But I mean it's not just to have a cute place, right, like there's a strategy behind this and we're listening to the kids, we're listening to people of the community.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Our staff is of the community.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: We have a teen advisory council where our board doesn't make any decisions without their input, you know, and so it's really like a drop-in center.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: That's one service we offer, so kids don't have to come to therapy, they can really just come and hang out or study or have a tutor or have a mentor.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: The other Solid, or I guess key service we have is individual therapy For the youth, and in Hawaii, if they're 14 and up, they are allowed to access this service without parental consent, which is one way that we can remove the barriers for these youth and try to, you know, help decrease that suicide rate.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: And then I would say the other, and arguably like the most impactful, we do groups, and we also have, I guess, non-traditional type of therapeutic services, like music and art therapy and poetry and, you know, like yoga and, I Think, bringing and incorporating those things back in, like boxing and dancing.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And then like it solves two issues.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: The first one is access right, because if you're coming in during the COVID, during the, during the pandemic, or if you're waiting like six months to see a therapist, or three months, we can get them into a group right away, at least in the interim.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: So that's one, one problem it solves.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: The second problem that it solves, I would say is that it's almost like takes a life on its own.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: So when the kids come to group they might, of course, be withdrawn like the first or second time, but the active just continuously coming right.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: They become familiar, they start to talk, even if it's just like oh, do you want Boba?
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: It starts off there and then we're doing group activities that are not super traumatic, right.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: So we're kind of strategically Engaging with them in such a way that they're gonna feel safe.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: So everything that we do in the customer journey is super important to be trauma-informed and I hope that answers your question.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Individual therapy, group therapy, and then we do monthly events.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: We're doing a rainbow prom this Saturday for all.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we do really cool non therapeutic events as well.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just so proud of you, thank you you.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you where this is coming from, personally One.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I was one of those parents and I have my daughter's consent to share this that we were looking for a therapist during COVID for two years before we could find the right fit.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: You know, and kids are struggling.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You are a working mom.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: In the way that you would create a space of belonging and safety, it like just rocks me and I just want to say thank you for doing that and thank you for listening to your nudge.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking at your socials and I'm looking at your website and it is such a joyful place and I wonder what people can learn from what you've done here, because you're so sweet about saying I don't know what I'm doing, which is also the weird, for good way, we're just like failing forward, trying to figure it out every day, but I also think that you have created an authentic space of community care, and community care is a thing that we're really, really cognizant of right now, and the fact that we cannot do this work alone.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: We can't do this life alone, we can't work through our problems alone, and I wonder if you could just talk to people right now who are working in the impact and nonprofit space and tell us what you've learned about how to build an authentic space of community of care.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: How could that be physical, or that could be digital, that could be whatever you've learned.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: We'd love to get your insights on that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's super important to be transparent and open, especially with the people that are around you.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: It's so important to kind of explain the why behind things.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: I think that is lacking so much in corporate culture or even in the medical culture.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: And so it starts with myself, and then it starts with my team, and that is like it has to be, in that order.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: And so we have clinical supervision every week, which means it's a minimum of two hours and everyone goes around, not only going over their consult questions like, hey, this is a hard case, what I do, but there's a dedicated hour for them to process transference and counter transference.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: And for people who don't know what that is, it's like.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: This is how this case is affecting me, this is how I'm feeling.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: I love spill the tea, and also I had no idea that what a startup was.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And this is a lot more than what my last practicum was, allowing people to say all the hard stuff.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: It's very natural for us not all of us, but it's very natural for at least one of us to cry at every supervision, because that is the act of processing.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: And once that's released and you understand that your team has your back and oh, this one of our colleagues right, and this happens, but their grandparent is sick and has to care, take, but that is discussed in supervision because now the whole team knows and it's like, hey, we got you, Don't worry, take off and we rally around.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: But that communication which I've gotten in corporate saying it's overly communicating, it's like no, it's so necessary, and it's literally two hours a week and that small two hours.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I know it may sound like a long supervision, but when I have a team, like we have a team of over 25 people, you know have to split those up.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: But when you have that big of a team, you need to make sure that we are cohesive and that we don't start to work in silos, right, and that it's not just this checkbox, like oh yeah, I did this, I did the biopsychosocial right, Like it loses the entire healing process when we do that, and so I don't know I go on my soapbox, but really it's the administrative burden, right, that can get in the way of things.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: So I spilled the tea and this is something that listeners can do is look at what's actually happening in your organization and see what admin stuff you can actually eliminate, like really eliminate it and like make that commitment to do, to doing that right.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: That would be something I also think.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Being inspirational is super important and being transparent about this is hard and I can't do it without you guys.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know if it's like desperation, but our team is so cohesive because, like we need each other, you know, and we're all like on year three, we can transfer to W2s, right, Like we have a dream and a mission and we all understand what that is and we all understand what role we play in achieving that mission.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: And I think that's why we're still alive because I'm surprised we're still alive with zero funding.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Zero funding, right, we have like 300 patients.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not surprised.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad Becky stopped.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you, it really means a lot to me because you know, you know with the negativity bias and also like we get a lot of hate right Because we're at LGBTQ clinic.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: So when Becky says all this positive things to me, I'm like, wow, becky, thank you so much.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It makes a difference.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, please open yourself to it.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, it does.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you've already started to kind of lead into this bigger conversation.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I love this because this whole week of mental health week, we're trying to talk about just some of the stigmas that are in place.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: What are some common misconceptions or stigmas that you've seen surrounding mental health, specifically in the sector, and how do you think we can start tackling these at a system level?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're such a systems thinker.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: What are some things that we could think about or talk about as leaders to really switch the playing field a little bit?
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think mental health rate, I don't know Gen Z and below.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I just feel like they get it, they're okay with that, they so get it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, and I know that there has.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, we cannot deny the fact that the generational differences have, you know, have an impact on this.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: But my point is that mental health is becoming more accepted, I think, generally speaking.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: However, in the existing systems there's still so much stigma.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like we haven't really gotten anywhere.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: I sometimes think we've gotten backwards, like anyway.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes right.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And so I guess, if we're trying to really incorporate mental health into existing systems, what needs to happen is a extremely transparent and honest audit of, like, what is happening.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Right, because sometimes we're not even aware Like, for instance, in the medical culture, we don't talk about the suicides, we don't talk about mental health right?
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: What needs to happen is an honest evaluation of what's going on and then saying, oh, we're going to commit to prioritizing to mental health.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I know this sounds very easy, but no one's doing it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: So first step is saying let's recognize the problem, let's recognize that we have to do something different or else we're probably not even going to have enough healthcare workers in the next 50 years if we continue this way.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: And then, once we make that commitment that we want to change it, and that's the hardest part.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: So I think that's where I feel always stuck.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: But once you prioritize it, then you need to have the right people in the right seats to actually implement that change and make sure, right, because this is what we always do we talk about mental health and we do nothing but putting the right people in the right seats to actually implement that and execute that.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: That is what is super needed.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I agree with you and I think that your expertise as a social worker and what you've seen, this lived experience, it's adding so much layers to the insight of what you're building and I think it's building this very authentic community of love, of care, of acceptance.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: And I want to kind of tap into this brain that you have as a social worker and I want you to talk about some of these, like evidence-based interventions and these programs that you have that are promoting resiliency and self-care.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Like what could our listeners begin to implement, because we want people to get activated around this?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: And what are those resiliency and self-care pieces that can be integrated into organizational culture and teams that anybody can take away from these learnings that you've witnessed?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I love this question actually because I work with a few institutions and this question comes up a lot, and the first thing that I have to say, with love and with respect, is that we have to recognize that sometimes it is like almost like gaslighting when we keep telling our employees and our doctors and our healthcare workers and our social workers that they need to incorporate self-care and they need to take care of themselves more, they need to do more mindfulness, and then you're looking at like, for example, a CPS worker, social worker in Hawaii that is completely overwhelmed, working like almost seven days a week, right, taking on this total emotional toll, getting yelled at by everyone in the system, and then you tell that CPS social worker you need to incorporate more self-care.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Or the physician right, who is on call for 72 hours, or they've been studying, yeah, seven days a week, without eating, without sleeping.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: They're like having panic attacks and you tell them that they need to suck it up and they need to just incorporate more self-care.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: So that's the first point that I want to make, yeah, and then the second thing.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: But then the second thing, right, and we're not doing that.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: But I just want to speak to the listeners because I know that they know what I'm talking about and I think if we really want to incorporate, like evidence-based mental health care, it's funding it, and so it's not really the great ideas we all have the great ideas it's more like who can implement them, who can execute them in a way that it is going to become successful.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: It is going to drive outcomes, like where's the data?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Like we need to make sure that these are outcome driven.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: I know that's like not an easy answer, but I think it is a place to start and I really hope that we can commit to doing that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Or even say you're stuck in an agency, right, and you want to do your own thing, like just thinking about what are you creating at that agency and if they're not allowing you to create something, better than really reevaluating either how you can align with an agency that will allow you to do that, or even thinking about starting something small on the side or just joining, like maybe like minded group, you know individuals collaborating, volunteer, nonprofit, you know any of that, I think, just coming together, because when I feel alone and when you guys, when we all feel alone, that's when it just stops our traction, or it stops mine anyway.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I call them like my shower floor moments.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: There's been a couple over the past two years.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Closet floor.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I get it, I just like.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just like on the ground, like crying, like why am I going to make payroll?
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Like do you know what I mean?
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Like it's like that Heck.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we know what you mean and there are so many nonprofit listeners out there that know it too, and I guess I'm quoting Seth Godin a lot today.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: But I mean he also says, like, you budget what you care about.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: So so to your point, you cannot just say, we need self care or, oh, you need to take time off.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Leaders, we need you to model it, we need you to put space in your budget for it.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: We need to see that it's okay and that it's encouraged when we do take it off.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: And some and people are watching.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: They're watching how people lean into this or lean out of it, and I think to me, it is one of the great cultural opportunities that you have to create either a vibrant culture or to like, create something that is so fractured and untrusted that people don't feel like they can be themselves at work, that they can't bring them best selves to this mission work.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So I agree with you, halen.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I think we've got to invest in it, model it, and we got to support it and celebrate it every time we see it Right.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: And also listen to the customers or the clients that you're serving, right, it's really important that we kind of hear what they have to say, because I think a lot of times when we're at the top, we just make these decisions and I think where that disconnect is whenever you transfer from being a social worker on the ground right to a like director level, it's like I see in so many organizations that you kind of lose that information.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: And so that's why it's so important that I, no matter what I do or where I go in my career, I will always this is something I'm, it's a non negotiable I would always, always, always do that clinical supervision so that I know about the team you know, and if someone replaces me, they will continue that as well, because that connection is so important to actually see.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, that theory that you're trying to implement does it actually work in the day to day?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Right, that new platform we're using, does it actually work when I'm in my car charting or whatever?
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: And so that's why I think that's important.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: And the funding so if you want to like prioritize mental health in your organization, then get funding for it.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Get a I don't know therapist.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Co-locate in there Maybe.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know, if you're doing primary care and you want to integrate a social worker and a therapist, allow your employees to go to that therapist, all 100% confidential.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: You don't get reported anything, right.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: There's kind of like these low cost ways or creative ways that we can, but I think it's super important to normalize.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: And even me, as like this is something I struggle with a lot too, but me as a leader, as an executive director, I have to model it.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: If I tell them like go home, take care of yourself, and then my employees see me here till 10pm, which which you guys probably know right, like I have to actively not do that.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: That's the struggle, right, and so I have to actively model like I'm taking a mental health day and they see me and I'll post it Right, so they can also do that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Cause if the leader is saying take a self care day, do this, do that, but they're not doing it themselves and they're working till 10pm every night, then that's just cognitive dissonance.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: That doesn't make sense to anyone.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I mean it is really hard to put that in practice.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, vulnerably speaking, I have the hardest time with that.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially because we talk about these things a lot on the podcast and it's easy to talk about normalizing, rest, but to actually do that while you're trying to build a startup and meet payroll and all the things.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I feel that I want to just ask you, before we start to wind down, like what's been like helpful in your own inner self work, to like have the resilience to keep going day in, day out.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Is there practices or what do you lean on?
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, John, I'm laughing because.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So if you want intense, expedited, like personal growth and therapy, and you don't have a choice, then like open a business or open nonprofits.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: It's so true Because this journey, like this journey in itself has pushed me more than anything I've ever experienced and I'm not saying like life-saving therapy I've experienced and I'm so grateful for that therapy but this is something new.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: This is something new for me and it requires a lot of new learning and discomfort and self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and so you know, we can talk about that in therapy, but when you're actually doing it, you don't have a choice but to show up Like you don't have a choice but to keep going right or lose your organization.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: And so I guess what I want to say is to start with yourself and look within and be able to actually increase yourself awareness about what are your default settings?
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Where are you lacking, like?
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Where are you maybe overly sensitive?
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Where are your triggers?
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Because when you know that, then you can still make decisions for the business.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: That's not based on your feelings, right?
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Because when I'm, like I said, like on the shower floor, like crying, I'm not making good business decisions.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: But I know what that is.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: That's just old patterns, that's just fear, that's just going back to, like my old trauma, and so this kind of holds me accountable in my personal growth and I don't know I feel like, do you guys also feel that way, because when I talk to business owners, they also feel that way, but mostly social entrepreneurs.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And if you want your relationship to like explore all, like launch a business together with somebody.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean Because Becky and I have had to like have the highs and lows with each other.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Right, that gives a new dimension to it in a good way.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: That is so cool.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: I hear you on that.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I never really thought about it like that, but you're right.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there's like heights in on both sides, right?
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Totally but, when you like, trust each other completely and you love each other and you love each other's families and you're glued in on the one, the why and the bigger picture.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: It makes the other stuff somewhat easier, yeah totally, I would say for sure 100%, and I just want to celebrate story here because I feel like if I don't want to get too weepy, but like one, I want to say this to Maddie.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I want to say this to your son, like what you have inspired in your mother, in your community, what a beautiful soul Maddie is to be able to have existed and lived in such a way that something like this could come out of his life.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So one, you're an amazing kid, maddie, and you are going to go on to do very big things.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: But I want to know a story from you, because we celebrate story and we have seen the way that philanthropy and kindness and being a good human transforms people even in the tiniest moments.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And I wonder if there's a moment where you've seen philanthropy or kindness or gratitude or something play out that has just stayed with you that you might want to share with us today.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: If you don't mind me sharing too, I want to.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Just the thing that made me feel like I was so successful, even though we might have had zero dollars in the account, was when another kid in our cafe you know they were suicidal and going through it and that is actually very common with this population but that kid called the kids from the cafe, right.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't the therapist, it wasn't a teen mentor, it wasn't the care coordinator, it wasn't me, it wasn't right.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: It's like now they're calling each other, they go over there like safety plan together, and the kid is okay for another day at least, you know.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: But that made me cry because I was like, wow, it's, it's his own thing, you know, without me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: And that is the whole goal of this.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: If we measure the value and not the monetary value but the impact value, that's way more than I could ever like ask for in a monetary, like donation, right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: And then I would say the other thing that really shook me was like you know, I'm being introduced to this business world and it's so weird, like I did not know how it is, and institutions and very, you know, and so Stanford like being as prestigious as they are, and you know, there was a moment where they kind of selected us or allowed us to be part of this really intense training, and they're going to be training, spill the tea for three years pretty intensely and that is of no cost to us.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, that is like something that I could never dream that could happen for a small spill of the tea that, like Stanford gender clinic, is training us for free.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: So I'm getting emotional, but that's just.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: It makes me continue to believe in this work.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Right, they're not saying, oh, it's about the money and we don't care about that.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: They're like we're Stanford and we care about you and we're going to make sure that you're providing the highest quality care, and that's what I'm super excited about.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: I just want to shout them out.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I would shout out I love both your stories.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I love that they point us back to, like the meaning of philanthropy.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: And we also got a shout out Elevate Prize Foundation, because this is what kind of reconnected us in the last couple of months that I love their Get Loud campaign and we were catching up with them and they're like you know, we just did this really beautiful campaign to select a winner of this unrestricted gift.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's $10,000, right?
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Biggest is our biggest donation to date.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness Thank you, kevin, 19.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But that is a grassroots social media fueled prize, and it's just such a beautiful way Love Get Loud.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I just love the full circle of them.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: They've been on the podcast a few times.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: So, hey Lynn, this conversation has filled our hearts.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I want to give you space to share a one good thing.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: You know how we wrap up our podcast is it could be a secret to you know how you live your life, or just a mantra or something that you want to leave our community with.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Your one good thing.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, I just want everyone to remember that growth mindset is kind of like this buzz term right now I use it a lot as well but it's not something that we're just born with.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: A lot of people are like, oh you, hey, lynn, you're just.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: You know, you're born like that.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: It's so untrue.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Like growth mindset is a strategy and it's a practice and you can improve at it.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: It is a skill set like any other skill.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: And so just expect to be uncomfortable, expect to feel like you don't want to do it.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: That is just your brain's way of really creating new neural pathways.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Like this is new.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: It feels so uncomfortable.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Just remember that.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: It's kind of just like neuroscience, just like you know.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Absorb all of that and say like, if it's uncomfortable, like I'm on the right track, you know, because I am trying to do something that is like arguably so.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: It's like it's a really big vision.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: So how can I expect to just think it's going to be easy?
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: But I just want to encourage other founders of nonprofits or people working in nonprofits that if you get frustrated, I just hope that, like one of my favorite professors from USC, or Angulo, would always say, if you're not angry, you're not paying attention.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: What he was trying to say was that like channel that anger into action as social workers, and that always stuck with me, even till this day.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: So growth mindset.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Such a good one good thing, and it just speaks to abundance and also it's telling us that this work is not going to be easy, and thank you for calling it out, because it's not.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: We are literally swimming upstream as we try to create these new norms, and I know we've got this great quote from Rabbi Mencham who says none of us are complete unless all of us are included, and so the number one core value of we are for good is everyone matters.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I have felt it so deeply in this conversation, whether you came for the mental health aspect, while you came for the community piece, while you came for how to learn, how to care and have an office that really promotes mental well-being.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I hope everybody will lean into whatever piqued your interest in this conversation and go deeper, because it's going to take some activation, it's going to take some rewiring of mindsets and, frankly, y'all, it's going to take some bravery and some boldness.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: And, haley, you've been so brave and so bold in what you've told us today and how you work through this mission.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I want you to drop all of your socials here.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Tell us how people can connect with you, tell us what your greatest need is, where funding could be used most and tell people how they can follow you and start to follow.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Spill the Tea Cafe.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: Becky.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, our website is spillthetcafeorg.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: On Instagram, we're spill underscore, the tea cafe.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: I also have a personal Instagram, haley and Denison LCSW, if you would like to follow us.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: And yes, we are just in a transitional phase right now where we are growing and we're trying to upkeep that scale.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: So, any aligned funders we are definitely in a place where we need to be able to implement the systems that we need, like primary care and being able to have care coordination to really up level the services that we have and be able to change the narrative for these kids and say you deserve the best care, the top tier care.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: That's what I want to do for this population and for all of us.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: You're already doing it and we are rooting for you.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Just so grateful to be in this space with you.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for coming on today.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you guys.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, Becky and John, you guys take care now.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Talk to you soon.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for these powerful discussions.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to dig deeper, you can find additional episodes and resources at weareforgoodcom.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Backslash mental health.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And these conversations continue over at the we Are For Good community.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Here we'll double click on some of the topics and support each other in community.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Come find us.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: We are for good communitycom.