Latest / New Worlder / Episode #82: Jaime Duque

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Episode #82: Jaime Duque · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the New Worlder Podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are speaking to Jaime Duque, which is no relation to Juliana.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: He is the founder of Caritacion Publica, a brand of specialty coffee shops, roasters, and educational centers in Colombia.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right now they are in Bogota and Armenia.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Throughout his career, Jaime has worked every part in the value chain of Colombian coffee.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: He started his work in the field as an agricultural engineer, working with farmers to fine tune their process to attain higher levels of quality.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: His work to encourage more specialty growers in the country
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: and for more coffee to be roasted and consumed within Colombia.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: He has become a leading coffee educator in Colombia and Catatássia Republica offers a wide variety of workshops and certifications that are sought out by those in the coffee industry throughout the region.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: In the interview we discuss how even as the rest of the world has been exposed for I don't know half a century to the general quality and story of Colombian coffee through the emblematic and also imaginary figure of Juan Valdez
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: It has only been until recently that you have been able to actually drink good coffee in Colombia.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of that has to do with Jaime.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: When I first went to the country in 2005, most of what you would find was just Tinto.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: These little cups of coffee loaded with sugar to offset the low quality.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: All the good stuff was being exported.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tinto is still around, but there has been a gradual transition towards a more dynamic coffee culture in the country.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Today you see specialty coffee shops like Caritasión Pública all over Colombia.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are world-class baristas and roasters and the growers can actually see how their coffee is being consumed which gives them additional insight into how they should grow it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about why he thinks fermentation processes like carbonic maceration will remain niche while cold brew still has enormous growth potential.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: if you haven't subscribed to the New Worlder newsletter on Substack just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack it's free to subscribe though paid subscribers get access to all of the content also please like this podcast click on the little stars follow us and share us it really helps us get found and if you want to advertise on the podcast please let us know enjoy the show
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Jaime, how are you?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Good, good Nick.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for inviting me to be here this day.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you now?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have cafes in Bogota and also Armenia.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you at one of those?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, our headquarters is located in Bogota,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: a very gastronomic district which is called Usaquén and now we are in Quindío we have another model business model in Quindío which is like an educational center okay so we have another third place which is in a coffee shop okay
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're in Gindio, Armenia basically, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Armenia is the capital city.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's in that area in the coffee zone.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a historical coffee axis in the past.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, but before we really get into it, like, I'm curious how you got into coffee in the first place.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I am an agricultural engineer and I studied agronomics in Manizales, three hours from here.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: So when I left my university, I was hired by the Colombian Coffee Federation, which was a good job at that moment.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you were working on the farms, basically.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: I started working with FNC at the farm level.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I have 250 growers in charge of me and I have to take the resources created by CENICAFE, which is a resources center in Colombia.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I took this information and passed down to the growers.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: and always visiting the growers to see how they plan how they should they fertilize and manage control of plaques or something like that and everything and also some lawn given to them so it was a full like advisor with them and you know you were basically your job was to make Colombian coffee better
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I started to see the old Colombian coffee production because we have 23 states from 32 like a grower.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: 23 of the states in Colombia grow coffee?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: From 32.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wow.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that it was that many.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we have 6,600 towns from 1,100 towns like a producer.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we have 560,000 coffee farmers in Colombia.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so major.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a major source of employment, a major, you know, economic driver.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: In the past was at least 40-45% from GDP in Colombia around 18 years.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now it could be the main income of the agricultural sector.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: it's around four three three four percent of GDP but it's present in 600 towns which is very important for stability I guess at the time when you started what was going on with Colombian coffee like what what year was this roughly it's uh 1985 I started to to to study
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: agricultural engineering and I left in 1991 and that's when you started to work with the Federation right I'm just trying to think like the whole evolution of Colombian coffee at least in my view I've been coming going to Colombia since almost 20 years since I think 2005 was the first time I was there and
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: at the time you know like I don't remember specialty coffee existing you know in 2005 you know most of what I encountered were you know cups of Tinto on the street you know the little sugary you know cups that most people drank and but then I also remember a few like Juan Valdez cafes I think in Bogota and I think they had just opened around that time then but it was at
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: at least from what I can tell it was at the time when there was a shift starting to happen at least in perception so the coffee specialty coffee industry started in USA through the for me it's a Ted Lingo Ted Lingo was the executive director of Specialty Coffee Association
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: and then was the Executive Director of Coffee Quality Institute.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Both institutes, both associations started to talk about specialty coffee.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, in my understanding about the specialty coffee, when a Starbucks started your coffee shop in Seattle in a marketplace location,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1978, around 1978, 1979, the commodization product, because they started to offer a coffee at the coffee shop and they created the third place.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the home and it's the job.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the job.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's in the middle.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that started to do this concept.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: The industry was born in Copenhagen in a specialty coffee shop there.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Edna, I don't forget the last name, her last name, but Edna worked as an exporter in Colombia, an estate, an importer, and she used it in this show, a specialty coffee concept, or name, which
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: was very interesting and that since there people start to look for a different origin and also Starbucks and Colombian Coffee Federation through the Juan Valdez did create his first coffee shop in 2023-24 and then moved to the United States in Seattle and they created the first coffee shop
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: which was a terrible experience because they didn't know how is the big coffee business in front of the coffee bar.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee bar is not to sell green beans.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Colombia has been selling green beans and 99% of coffee is selling green beans, raw material, not roasted coffee.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: not attending, not preparing our expresses or something like that so now they have a very good input and knowledge and they have been doing a very good job more than 300 coffee shops
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: not only in Colombia but also in six seven different countries but but in this moment was a terrible situation they lost a lot of money so yeah but it was a good experience as well because the coffee business coffee is very very
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: very interesting coffee chain product chains because it's totally different what the coffee is in the field different at like a calling process than exporting process and shipping process than importing coffees and roasting coffees and preparing coffees so there are a lot of chains to know have a lot of knowledge beyond I mean that's a big I think evolution
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: just in the last 20 years you know just of what I've seen you know just thinking back 20 years ago when everyone was basically just drinking Tinto in the streets and in they were drinking Tinto because because why why do they add so much sugar just because it was such low quality yeah Jaime hi I was about to ask something related which is
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: How would you describe the coffee Colombians were drinking at the time, the preparation and the taste, and why the difference in between the beans they were using for that and the beans that they were exported at the time, if it was the beans?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Colombia have been drinking terrible coffees at the internal consumption.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Same like olive oil in Greece.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: They exported the good one, the good one always, and they left the regular one.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's changing.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's quite changing.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: But thinking in the consumption, internal consumption, we have been drinking a regular raw material, and we roast dark.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have been using a dark process, roasting process, which is giving a bitter, bitter flavor.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: When I drink a bitter beverage, I need to add sugar and milk and something like that or sugar cane or like a panela to keep this problem.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's the regular consumption in Colombia.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, the people and it's the same around the world.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not only in Colombia.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's around the world.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's roasting dark.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Blending coffee, the good one with the bad one.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: For example, I'm ordering in Italy.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: They buy three containers from Ethiopia, which is coming with complexity.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Three containers from Colombia, which is coming with acidity.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: And 20 containers from Vietnam, which is a volume.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: and they mix all together and roasted the coffee dark and chip it and put it on the on the table in front of the customer but I think that the customer has to evolve and Colombia has been trying to evolution in terms of not only looking at coffee by caffeine but also followed by flavors
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because coffee has more than 2,000 compounds inside.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: We are much more complex than wine, than cacao.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: 46% are carbohydrates.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have lipids, we have vitamins, we have a different kind of acidity, quinic, chlorogenic, malic, phosphoric.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: which is a very beautiful product that we need to develop to offer a different flavor not only sugar in the end but this is changing right now Tinto is a terrible name for coffee because Tinto is a wine but it's a coffee
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there has been this big shift and in I wanted I was excited to talk to you just because your work has been in education coffee education more than anything so for this shift to occur you I mean you've been working in education for quite a while right and in coffee education for more than a decade
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: yeah all all the time yeah so for this shift to a cure your work had had to have been you know fundamental you know I like when did you realize I mean just to get Colombians to want to drink
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Coffee, you know, to kind of step outside of the Tinto box and, you know, like understand, you know, what they had and not just export all the green coffee, but actually giant process of education, of roasting locally, of processing locally.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an entire chain of things that had to have happened.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating because I think it happened
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's happened and still happening so quickly like I mean now you know I told you 20 years ago there was you know maybe one or two Juan Valdez cafes in Bogota where it was you know it was fine but now it's you know there's there's everything there's an amazing sets of roasters there's all kinds of you know specialty coffee shops and baristas that are on par with any major city in the world anything I find in
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: New Worlder
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: but roasted but to you know even you've been involved in growing it too so so yeah I don't even know how to begin with your answer but go ahead back to 13 years ago if we we can take this conversation and talking about what didn't do I don't know exactly that I want to mean but I no lo hice
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: So all complain of quality coffees in Colombia.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I left these things and I took a decision to jump in and to the coffee industry in front of the coffee business, in front of the customer.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I decided to create Catación Publica
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: and I started to roast.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I see around the world in Finland, Copenhagen, in Italy, in China, in the States, talking about the coffee shops and big industry and in Colombia, nothing.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided to jump in and my core had been
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: share knowledge share that so when I visited a coffee shopping in a state just talking about the espresso and also macchiato and latte art it's just the tip of the iceberg
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: but beyond there are a lot of knowledge so I started to decided to offer a nice coffee roasted in a nice German roasting machine an importer and I put a beautiful layout and I decided to not drink a tinto not offer a tinto but also offer an experience and I started to buy a coffee from everywhere in Colombia
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So since the 1 degrees of latitude north in Nariño up to 11 degrees of latitude north in Sierra Nevada, Santa Marta and Cesar Pueblo Bello.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I started coffee, brought to Bogotá and started to roast and offer an experience.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was my beginning to teach, to explain.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So the coffee is a huge word and I put a poster like in my place
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: talking about coffee and health people doesn't know anything now about the coffee and health there are very important research talking about the consumption a coffee consumption and healthy benefits so so the idea was that in front of the coffee bar offer a nice coffee nice coffee on the cup and now it's a it's a very important reference in Colombia Catación Pública
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it had to have been a challenge at first you know I mean because just because coffee is such a big part of Colombian culture historically but you're you're telling them they've been drinking it all wrong you know it's like it couldn't have been easy it was very I've been doing a very very hard job very hard many many friends man but I have a
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I had many opportunities to work with a company in the States, a company in Europe.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I know a coffee industry around the world.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of friends around the world.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful industry in that term.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I decided to push it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I keep going.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some people say, Jaime, you as a
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: A Quixote, Don Quixote.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a business, it's a very difficult business because I am offering just coffee.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Cappuccinos is nothing.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I make a cappuccino, but 70% of my business is cafe, no cappuccinos, no macchiatos.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: yeah I'm curious about the machine you mentioned because you decided to got this Dutch machine and technology and even when all the the stages of the process coffee production and you know growing and then
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: the process of getting into the bags and preparing it the roasting process is key can you explain us why and how did you decide why did you decide to get that machine specifically that's a good question so there are a lot of information at the part level and now there are a lot of information in espresso machine technologies materials
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: big company beyond Marzocco, Zimbabwe, different huge companies beyond this machine but the magic that is made possible to drink a cup of coffee is a roasting process and it's kind of a Cinderella, it's in the middle so I decided in
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: 5 years to study a lot of roasting process because I am in front of the 2000 component and I put a heat inside of the machine to roast the coffee so 46 are carbohydrates that I had to put in a sugar reaction which this is a Maya reaction this reaction is a specific important very important reaction to to make sweet
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: a cap profile in the end so I started to look for a dollar not only the German company
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: and I found another company in Holland which is Gießen, Gießen Coffee Roaster and I started to be in contact with them and I see a software a very important software that allowed me just to put an example no I don't want to be a course of roasting process now but just an example one variable it's rotated drum rotated and if I
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Roast like this I have more contact we we are roasting the coffee through the third way three way convection conduction and radiation so when I move past the beans are centripetal forces so it's more contact if I slow down it is could be more convective so
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: How can I roast if I have a coffee produced in 2,000 meters over sea level, different like 1,000 meters over sea level?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not the same, right?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that answer pushed me to see, to work in that way.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm now doing some R&D
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: research and development here in Colombia with this technology to because the growers have been doing a very interesting process fermentation long fermentation process like natural semi-wash honey not watch so they need more knowledge to develop this bean because it's in the middle of the process
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the reason that I decided to study more roasting process.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a high technology in my place in Quindio.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, your research is as much for the growers to actually see
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Taste the potential of the coffee.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whenever I kind of think back to wine a lot with coffee and how all of the best vineyards, you know, it's like they make their own wine.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they don't ship the grapes off to London or something to to make wine.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But for coffee, it's like.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: When when there's not a coffee culture in that country,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there are
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: A strong knowledge, very high.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the public have been putting on your hands, in the customer's hands, this knowledge.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have an experience just for giving an example.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: I have an experience to take 20 minutes and we put at three different coffee and I teach about acidity, malic, phosphoric, acetic and I put that just to this is a this this acid has been using in a strong coffee training from six day cold which is called Q grader program
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: and I put in a 20 minutes time for a common people to use this technology and to learn about coffee and also we have an experience with one hour sitting on the on the roasting machine 1.5 kilos they choose the the beans and put it on the roasting machine and they can learn about how we are roasting the coffee how we develop the coffee
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that the educational process takes time.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: I have 30 years in the industry, but I have been talking now about sugar.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I started 20 years ago.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Don't put sugar, don't put sugar.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: You don't put any Coca-Cola on the single malt whiskey, Glenfiddich 21 years.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: But in coffee, you put sugar, you put milk.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: so but so apart from that you know like keeping that quality and pureness as much as you can can baristas and this is the other educational part which is key but can baristas or even people at home ruin a good quality coffee when making it um you know what i mean like yeah yeah so so that's a
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: that Nick did say before it's a challenge it's a challenge we are in front of the challenge because 95 percent or at least more than it it's a really bad coffees really bad profits but we are talking about five percent of the consumption but for example
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: I want to refer to Nespresso.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nespresso was my inspiration 20 years ago when I saw the first coffee shop.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a beautiful girl, two meters high.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So in front of the, in Holland, for example, in Bern, in Switzerland, when I see the capsules.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: But now the capsules for me, it's not good.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not good now.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we are in Colombia.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have a huge paradise to offer.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: a Colombian coffee so I'm working in that way that you are saying Juliana so I am created a new brand let me let me share it's a new new it's not on the market now I created a single cup Catacion Puli okay so this is for woman woman edition or this is a process single cup for process or
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: like a credit card black black edition which is higher and this is the expectation campaign something cool is coming yeah what is what is that
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: it's like this it's it's the method it's okay it's knowing it's knowing it's not new because i knew this much these guys from japan 20 years ago i am a friend of them but the machine is it was very expensive now i bought a new one
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Not that expensive, not unsafe, but it's doing the same and uncreative.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: These things allow me to offer directly to, this is a B2C business, business to consumer approach with a nice cup of coffee at the home level, which is more difficult market to reach.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that this process or this method allow me to be closer that you say but because you can take a really really nice geisha for example or how a variety or say without some process
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well producing at the farm level in your home.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: You just open, put in the cup, add water, hot water and the seed and you are drinking a very nice cup.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that we need to move in that address to approach the consumer.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's a step by step.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, and yeah, it's like, it's portable, right?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's treated like a teabag.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when you, so one of your lines now of these coffees and the big bags you mentioned is, it's not by women, for women, but made for women, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Women growers.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us about that?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided, so when I put, I have been doing many cupping sessions
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: And in Catación Pública in Bogotá, people come there and I put three, four different copies.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I started to see that the woman chose one, one origin.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I did some research without asking them.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what do you like?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: That one, that one, that one.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the women chose this specific origin.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: and that that moment I decided to create a woman edition back and I started to produce a profile for women and I did that one now have been changing
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: of course I if I have a for example Santander de Quilichao in the Cauca in the south of our country which is a very complicated region I bought the coffees I have been buying the coffees from there because it's a very it's a peace process in that places and very illegal crops and something like that but we have a very good relation with them so I bind directly to them and there are a
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Woman Association.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, I bought the coffee from Woman Association and I put it in the back like Woman Edition.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or if I produce it in a context.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of contexts around the world, around Colombia.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: So when I go to the context and I subasta in an auction,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I bought a woman when I have a special micrologue produced by a woman.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I put in that profile.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's the idea about woman edition.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And now the next month will be the woman edition, woman day.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a pro familia, you know, pro familia here.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: I already sold 500 bucks for them because they are going to give like a gift.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: I see.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So what else do you have in that lab in Armenia, Quindio?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Jaime, what else is key to produce these specialty coffees?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I have like a different product.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: One is education and I have a training from people at the farm level, coffee lovers,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: and specialist in the English but also we have a cubes and home page through the selling into in front of the our bar a coffee box 340 grams or or wholesale operation in Bogota as well for hotel and Oreca sector but I also have a two labs one of them is certified international internationally by like a cube any
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: for the Coffee Quality Institute.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: And in Armenia, Afalab, a coffee business without lab, beyond.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So all things has to
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: have a lab beyond the product.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: So my lab is a tool for me because in the lab I have a very special machine.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: For example, it's an Actron measuring the colorimeter.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a colorimeter measuring the coffee roasting
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: name.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: For example, if the coffee is dark, I don't talk about dark or medium or light.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm talking about 67, 55 or 43.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: According to this name, I have a profile in front.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I have been doing some research and copying IANA quality coffee assurance
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: for some Japanese company as well they cheap it lost the offer sample offered shipping to me and I kept and I give to the Japan guy their result and they decided to buy the containers
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I am his partner in Colombia so they love it for me it's very important and now I've been doing the old development because they need to to be a grind a measure 11 I did last last weekend training with
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: or cupping with 9 grains, 10 grains, 11 grains, 12 grains and different size of grinder size as well and concentration and everything so which is the lab is the perfect space to develop and also a offer to the growers this offering is to quality coffee sample they cheap the green beans and I tested and I give back
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: The technology
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: has changed drastically right like since you started like I you know I've been in some farms and roasters and things and it's it's like how precise things can be now you know it's there's so many computers and involved and it's not just you know like heating up some beans anymore it's
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: it's very precise I mean what what does that allow you to do I guess that you couldn't have done before technology is faster than consumer right so when you are trying to explain something about that in front of the customer right there are a lot of things
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: ahead so what what should I do move ahead or try to to give this information that is a very it's a challenge as well it's a challenge because there are a low low low low knowledge about coffee I have to be honest about that if you put that 8 000 million of people in around the world they the coffee knowledge it's in a
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: right less than one percent so so we need a huge possibility to teach to others and but we need to to teach the basic the basic of coffee the knowledge is important the technology is more important as well but step by step so it's I am a very high tech it's
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: and it's a problem for me because I am the technology is very expensive as well so the machine I recently bought a Gissen six kilos batch it's a for me it's a 50 000 euros so which is expensive to rush just six kilos
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: and it's expensive for Colombian and it's expensive for Holland people as well so I have been there and people there is a oh I don't I can't buy the the Gizen in Holland because it's too expensive but it's a very useful as well I have to be honest we need the technology we need to move we have a scale which is getting I catching with the the iPhone Papa and I started to put the put over
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: and the in the in the which is called Akaiya and the scale move a curve and then I test and I put my notes in the in the telephone in the program and I there are a community around Akaiya concept around the world and I share like a Facebook there are this technology for share the profile
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: a buyer who buy one lot same the lot that I bought of same cafe and I share the the core profile to brew in a Chemex in a V60 and something like that it's a very interesting and also and also I have a Cineso machine I recently bought a Cineso machine to to prepare espresso
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: and the machine has a I want a beautiful technology seventeen thousand dollars which is very expensive for me so this is the group you move to left to the left
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: and you can get espresso with 160 milliliters and five bars of pressure and move to the right and you may take a 360 milliliters with eight bars of espresso it's just magic magic and we need the technology but yeah does the consumer even notice you know you know like so it takes time to get there to to that that level so
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Go back to the basics, of course, but you need to see ahead, but try to share this knowledge very basically.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about exploration and technology too, how risky it is to go too far in terms of
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know now there is this experimentation with washed semi-washed raw sun-dried and I have found that sometimes those coffees are I mean caffeine wise they can be pretty strong or they can
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the chemical effect on your body is not necessarily the best one even if they are fruity or so I wonder how far to go because I know roasters and I guess growers working together are very excited about these options and possibilities but I don't know I just wonder about that
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: yeah yeah that's that's the process of the part level like a wash coffee wash coffee it's producing in 99% of our Colombian production this wash coffee the pulping picking the pulping fermentation process and drying and that's it but now since some years ago started to produce a semi-wash or honey which is the pulping and put it directly in the drying party
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: or natural speaking and directly on the drying party.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And also they have been using some ills or bacterias like a wine.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: You guys talk before about wine industry.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: We follow the wine industry.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have many, many things to learn from this industry, wine industry.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea is to take care for me.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: When I am in front of the growers,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: because food, coffee is a beverage.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee is a food.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you are drinking.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: You are drinking this way.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: You take care with the consumer.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if we are using a rare bacteria or something like that, you take care.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: I try to say them, take care.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Don't change as strong the coffee flavor because I am looking for a flavor of coffee, not for a...
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: papaya flavor so from no kiwi flavor no i am looking for a coffee coffee a strong coffee or light coffee or or very specific notes of coffee six years ago i created a beer a coffee beer a one stout stout a coffee stout with bogota beer company and when when we started to talk about beer
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I had very clear the concept.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's the tiny notes on the beer.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you want a coffee, you take espresso.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the beer, very tiny notes of coffee.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: No more.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to respect the industry.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: You have to respect the consumer.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you take care.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I have been talking too much.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when I have the opportunity to give a speech, I am a speaker from coffee, not only here, but also around the world and try to share that because you take care because consumer is our customer.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to add something that you asked me a question before.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's about the coffee business.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: because coffee business when you are selling coffee is other business I am we are talking about passionate professional coffee and I love to coffee and I try to develop product and try to develop a different roasting I study the the extraction the machinist and everything but coffee business is not easy it's not easy because it's a huge margin
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you need to sell a lot.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Q. The Q is the answer.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be an administrator.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: You need to study administration.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: You need technology.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have to add them into the coffee shop data, for example, data information.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: You need to know more about internet in a sales, in a positioning like you are doing with this podcast, for example.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we need, we are moving my,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: My students, when they are coming to my place, not talking, I don't talking about just coffee, about just roasting process.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is a business.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is an experience.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: We have an experience to offer, not focusing just a cappuccino on how to create.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: I recently visited in Greece, 1991, especially because we have very banner, big banner in a corner.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Specialty Coffee since 1991 and I was there and I asked the question the only specialty coffee concept that I heard that moment was you want a single or a double that's it there are a huge opportunity but we need to open open open and step by step you mentioned
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: like yeast and uh like paying attention to you know wine and uh things like that I think it was last year or the year before I took I tasted a few coffees in Panama like um carbonic maceration and you know all these kind of more extreme fermentation things and they were pretty wild like it was pretty different from most coffees I've tasted before and
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: I liked it.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: But do you see that opening up a lot more or do you think it's still going to be kind of a very niche coffee geek thing for a long time?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I consider that it's a niche now.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: And very rare.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: And my question to you guys is how many cups from this coffee you take a day?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: One?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Two?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: three four maybe just one because you are looking for a nice coffee sweet coffee nice flavor maybe honey notes or nutty notes or something like that and that's it and maybe repeat two hours ahead again but
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: I am talking about my preference.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when I have a natural, natural is nice enough in a lab.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you drink not very early in the morning, but maybe 11 a.m.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: or maybe in the afternoon.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: You drink at night, you see cognac notes, for example.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting process, but just one.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not like a big French press.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: so I think that is a niche but it's growing as well it's getting some momentum like I'm curious like where else it can go beyond kind of the traditional coffee world you know like it does it have a place in restaurants and things like that those kinds of
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Same like wine industry.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: You may get a wine, a bottle of wine I don't know
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Jaime Duque
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: A specific load of production, a specific kind of variety of wine or something like that.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: Same in coffee.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is a niche, a business is growing and it's good because they think, wake us to improve the rest of the coffee.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it's good for that.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Ana, what about cold brew coffee?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because it seems to be part of this experimentation with coffee bars and opening spaces for different ways of consuming coffee, even at different times of the day.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure that for me it will be the different way.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: I am more optimistic with good cold brew than the rare coffees or fermentation or maceration and something like that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I see a huge market in this process but each industry needs more resources because not only not all coffee served with cold brew because there are some specific
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: process or maybe some specific varieties of some specific origins which is leaving cold when they heat it down yeah the temperature the coffee is putting very very bitter but the other is when the the temperature is going down the flavors coming up so you need to look for what specific coffee not all coffee
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sir, it's correct for using in a cold brew process.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think... Sorry, are growers thinking about this?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, think growing specifically for cold brew?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something that's happening?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, growers, growers is that's one such part of this journey.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because grower is on the field.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's in the rural areas.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: They don't know too much about the business, too much about this industry.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: so when I started to work with them I passed many time to to try to put in contact with the commercial with the industry with the flavor with the rosary because they need to more more about the the coffee industry they they need to eat inside more into the coffee chain because it's a product which is buying in a green beans when a raw material and the industries is a a better business
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say that the roasters are rich and it's pushing the growers to produce coffee.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, the roaster has a big challenge as well to produce, to advertise, to a lot of costs of production.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: But see, we need that they know more and the cold brew is far away from
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you ask the question about cold brewing, growers, maybe 95% say, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we need to move more knowledge to the growers and help them.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: so obviously Colombia is not the only country working on this you know and people like you in a disciplined and passionate way there are other countries very excited about these new options and specialty coffees how do you see Colombian coffee in that market marketer wise but also what is the added value of a good Colombian coffee and which other exciting things do you
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see around the world that can enrich this coffee, the universe of coffee?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Colombia is working or selling coffee with 57 countries.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we are 58 countries selling our coffee.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a lot of countries selling it.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Bolivia, Papua New Guinea, there are a lot of countries.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: But Colombia is the third producer around the world.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: in my experience not for to was born here in Colombia say that no it's it's at least the first supplier with a high standard of quality
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: Colombia is the only country that tests all coffee.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: Caps all coffee which is exported.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Beyond exporting.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Beyond to put in a container is capping.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: I have been in many producer countries in Ethiopia, in Kenya, in Central America, in Brazil, but they can't sell the coffee without capping.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: But in Colombia it's a rule, it's a law.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: All coffee is coffee.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: That thing allowed to offer since Colombia and to give us security to sell coffee and to offer a nice standard of quality bean.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: But if you talk about Panama, for example, that you say before, Panama is amazing.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a tiny production.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it's amazing.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: We had to learn a lot of Panama because they sell a coffee at one pound in $6,024 a pound.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you see Colombian coffee going now, I guess in the future?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now that, I mean, you have been on this, you know, education path for years and, you know, now it's, you know, better quality coffee is accepted in the country.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people, at least younger generations are drinking better coffee.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: They know more about coffee.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: I dream.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: and my dream that this is the dreams come true that the Disney said so so I dreams about them and also you have to have our dreams to have a reality so so I see the future of the industry with a better quality very quality like the people has to know what raw material is drinking when they know
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: they left their drink this coffee because the coffee is totally different like an apple in this apple the apple is same apple at the farm level and the supermarket is the same apple but the coffee in the farm level is a red cherry and in the supermarket it's a Maxwell house totally different
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's a separate world, so the people have been changing and the young generation is looking for experience that allows... I have a lot of customers, 15, 16, looking there.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: I created a coffee brand for people in between 15 to 25 years old called Cipillon.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's in my homepage.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Cip, Catación Pública, Pion.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: is it was created for my daughter they didn't see young people in my instagram and we decided to move in that so there are also opportunity for better coffee better quality better raw material and also good things coming below beyond this highest standard of quality like a healthy condition so diabetes
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: hair condition, Alzheimer's, there are a lot of a lot of things it's in the US and Australian diet is the most important source of antioxidants coffee but when you roast the coffee dark you are killing the antioxidants so when when you roast like medium
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: 1665 Actron color, it's a nice moment to drink a cup of coffee because it's very healthy beverage.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: For me, coffee has a shape that allow to be into the healthy market, healthy and fit, which is both big market growing right now.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: yeah I was about to ask about that Jaime because with so many alternative beverages now offered right like caffeine free and you know avoid the crash and all these you know messages I wonder if you have access to numbers is coffee consumption diminishing increasing or just it depends on the quality or it's or these
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: The population that are interested in healthier options according to the common knowledge about coffee is still very small.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you see that from inside?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a worry?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Coffee consumption is another podcast of course but we are producing a 170 million of bags of 60 kilos each and that's numbers in terms of consumption it's like 1.4 billion of caps so Colombia for example our internal consumption is 2.2
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: kilograms per capita but Finland is 12 and Norway is 9.6 and Costa Rica which is a producer country is 4.2 kilograms per capita so we have in Colombia huge opportunity as a state has us 5.6 and it's the
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Huge importer around the world.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's huge in terms of value, it's the biggest.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of consumption, it's 5.6.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: The highest is Finland.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: I see a very important opportunity and coffee not only is that I'm talking about because it's growing through the cafes.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: It has a magic to talk, to be in society.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: so that is important but if I add a concept like flavor like a nutty like a honey like a process like a variety so it's changing very well because it's not drinking it's not drinking a cup a bottle of wine you drink a bottle of wine you you can drive you can you are getting a hit
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of this big spectrum of coffee growing in Colombia, we have different
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Climates, different thermal floors.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: How would you describe the variety of Colombian coffee according to that with so many ecosystems?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: And how would you describe the added value in those terms?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's obviously different, right?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I have my favorite.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the coffee production is in between the Capricorn axis to the Cancer Capricorn.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Tropic of Capricorn to Tropic of Cancer.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and it's around the world, the globe, the globe.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: So when you talk about Colombia, Colombia has a huge, that I talked before,
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: We have a different altitude since I visited the Mesetas Meta I am an agricultural engineer that I said before and I talked about coffee that the coffee which is producing since 1200 meters over sea level and to 1800 meters over sea level and I visited Mesetas in the Llanos Orientales with a 300 meters over sea level and a beautiful plantation
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a possibility to have a coffee in Colombia since 300 meters up to 2,000 meters or 2,100 meters over sea level.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a difference because the difference in altitude is a different flavor.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: And also latitude.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's in one degrees north in Nariño and 11 degrees in Sierra Nevada, Santa Marta and La Guajira.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Other things.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_02: We have three range mountains.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: Different soil, different terroir, central, west and east mountain, which is a different profile as well.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: We have a huge range of temperature.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: as well so we have coffee produce producing since around 15 degrees up to 25 degrees celsius also different varieties we have main body body variety which is Variedad Colombia, Castillo, Ceni Cafe One, Tipica,
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: Maragohipe and a lot different variety which is planted by a specific load and a small load but is growing Geisha, Sudangrome, Bourbon, Yellow Bourbon, Pink Bourbon they are planting this kind of variety also the growers have been done a very good job at the farm level most of them when you compare
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: Colombia with other Central American and African, Ethiopians or Brazilian, we have a very good growers at the farm level.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: They are picking.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: Most of our coffee farmers are small of 85%, 85, 90% of the coffee farm are lower than two hectares, which is a
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: A small economy, economy, a familiar economy.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: That means offering a product made by hands, made by love.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: which is really nice as well and it's very different and also the commercialization process inside of the Colombia they are an exporter doing a very good job as well shipping to the company Colombian coffee fair it should have been done a very good job they give them advices they have a technical information a scientific information all the day
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: to sharing with growers as well and all this ecosystem one of the the challenge is the New York Bottex Stock Exchange like you know the coffee arabica's coffee is selling through the New York Bottex Stock Exchange and the arabica's coffee is selling through the London Stock Exchange so there are two different quality but we are following bolsa the New York Bottex Stock Exchange which is risk
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: because the dollar is going up the dollar is going down or maybe the different investment climate the weather condition change the prices and that's move and it's very worried for growers as well when we are talking about in this term
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: yeah there's there's a lot of things to think about when you know it's like most people you know they just drink their coffee in the morning and you know like is it good or is it bad but there's so many just ins and outs especially Colombian coffee you know it's like you have thank you for diversity to be honest yeah thank you for real yeah yeah oh but
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: I need more conscientious people like you guys yeah no it's fascinating and you know and thank you for for like being patient explaining so many things with us because I mean yeah it is kind of overwhelming like and it's like I've you know I write about coffee from time to time and I visited lots of farms and met lots of roasters and baristas and all of those things but it's right
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's just such a big world and there's so much depth to it that it is yeah it's just the education level of it the aspect of it it's so big it's so big but I think it is it has achieved so much in such a short time so right so thank you thank you thank you thank you for coming always a pleasure to be here and to share with you guys
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how do you say this quote in English but
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: No hay mejor crítico que un buen ignorante.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: Juliana, ¿por qué no lo traduces?
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no better critic than an idiot.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, something like that.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's real.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ignorance is brave.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, but
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_02: But this is our label.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have been doing like this in front of the coffee bar, talking, explaining, because it's a country product.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is a country product.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's important.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's important in culture, in the culture, in the productions, in the incomes as well.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: So there are a lot of important things.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: At least one
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: of the product from Colombia that always put it in a good positive place coffee when you are around the world we have a really bad
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_02: heritage situation the drugs and and coffees is natural it's a good good people working at the part level producing with their hands there are that's the reason that i want to share and try to explain not only for you guys outside but people here my my friends my family this is a a good thing to share
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_02: A good thing to come in and good thing to talk.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the idea to learn more about.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like a wine, like a cheese industry, like a honey industry, like an olive industry.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we have too many things to share in the 50 years ahead.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Jaime.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Elias.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are not going to believe this, but I just realized Jaime and I share the same last name.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't realize that?
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you believe this?
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, like when you first mentioned him, I wondered if you were, he was like a cousin or something.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, this is true.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just, yeah, I can't believe this.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that my granddad is, you know, that last name is coming from Bello, Antioquia, and yours is... Right.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: but if it's for my favorite department in Colombia it's Quindío so I wonder now I'm curious if we are related but seriously yeah no thank you thank you so much I appreciate your time and we are very welcome to our place in Bogotá when you want to visit it in Quindío as well very and very very thank you
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: thank you I appreciate that okay thank you thank you everyone for listening find out more at newworlder.com or search for us on any podcast platform Spotify Apple iHeartRadio any of them we're there and a big thank you to my friend Pat Buzzard for providing the music for the show find out more about Pat at patbuzzard.com