Latest / Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle / EP 15: Turning Wrenches Into Real-World Opportunity
Transcript
- Paul Stucki: had no interest in bicycles. They just wanted to do something mechanical. And I think that's a really important thing for people to understand about Project Bike Tech, and it really opened my eyes at that point. we're able to provide just general shop skills, you know, shop awareness, tool use, introduction to things like torque and you know rotational momentum Brandon Morphew: Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, Marketing the Bicycle with Brandon Morphew and Chris Melman of Miso Partners. Welcome to Spokes and Strategy. Where the business of bikes meets the joy of riding. Bike shops have been asking and are curious where are they going find the next capable person for the workbench? Where do they come from? Schools keep asking how to make math and physics and career learning more real and more approachable. Project Bike Tech puts a bicycle between those two questions. And Paul Stuki joins us today. to talk about what students learn when they diagnose and repair something with their own hands. The harder question of how a great program like Project by Tech survives when a teacher who carried it moves on. I'm Brandon Morphew and I'm flying solo today. So I'll get right into it, Paul. What are you riding lately? What's what's what's got you find and joy on the bicycle? Paul Stucki: We've got some local trails here that I really like in I'm I'm in Montrose, Colorado. And one of my favorites is the Spring Valley Loop. just a nice local trail system that you can get into. It's not super busy, but we raised our boys in Gunnison and we're not too far away from Gunnison. So my one of my favorite places to ride is Hartman Rocks in Gunnison. Brandon Morphew: Fantastic. is there a little repair that you had a part of recently that maybe was a moment of joy or some satisfaction that you got from it? Paul Stucki: Yeah, I actually learned how to service the clutch on my Shimano rear derailleur. recently and was having some difficulties and my son works for shimano or or works for a company that represents Shimano and he said you know you can actually go in and fix that and I I catch a little grief from my son because I'm the the bike tech guy and and he always ribs me a little bit and says hey Captain Bike Tech you really should know how to do this. he's he's much more accomplished than I am and and I figured it out and got it done and I was really super proud of that and it's working fast. Fantastic. Brandon Morphew: That's fun. so Paul, Stuki, you've spent 25 years in public education, including five years teaching Project Bike Tech curriculum. you've also taught high school mathematics, working with students in an alternative school setting. You've you've got a background in bikes, including professional mountain bike racing, coaching at Aspen High School for the mountain bike team, as well as guiding in Colorado Mountains. And then on the on the winter side, a slight change of terrain. You've you've competed in the Pro Bud Pro Mogul Tour. so today you're you're the Project Bike Tech Educational Support Specialist. and you're helping teachers and schools use bicycle technology to build skills, confidence, and new possibilities for young people. I'm grateful for your time. Thank you so much for making time to sit down and speak with me. Paul Stucki: Thanks for having me. This is this is really a a great opportunity for us as well. Brandon Morphew: Excellent. N you said something in the in the questionnaire that caught my attention. You you consider yourself to have operated on the fringe of the cycling industry. what do you think that position has allowed someone like yourself to see and then you know what what might someone in a career industry person what might they have missed, you know, that you that you get to see? Paul Stucki: Right. Yeah, that's an interesting question, you know. by operating on the fringe, I guess, what I what I meant there is is I've never really worked in a shop. I've never really been a professional cycling career person, although I've operated, you know, on the on the fringe for for quite a while as an athlete and and with kids coming up through and and lots of lots of colleagues involved. but the education I think I got into education a little bit late. I I was working my original degree was in in outdoor recreation and that's where I where I got into competitive skiing and cycling. And when I got into education I think that brought a unique combination, you know, not really a hardcore cycling industry person, but also not really a hardcore educational person. And I came into it and that's one of the reasons I gravi gravitated towards the alternative education piece was because I really wanted to get in there and help the kids that were struggling in in classes. And and I believe that this program, in addition to a lot of other things, it really does help a lot of kids find meaning in their education. Brandon Morphew: Do you think that being outside the conventional industry has helped you with a a bridge between, you know, the bike world and education? Paul Stucki: I definitely do, you know, I think in both respects, I even though I spent twenty-five years as an educator, I also kinda considered myself a little bit on the fringe there because I gravitated back and forth. And I think that that kind of you know, outside looking in but inside looking out sort of paradigm really gave me a unique perspective in in both respects. You know, when when we started the Aspen High School mountain bike team, it was Nica had already been going for a little while, but I was able to connect with an old old colleague or a I I guess an old competitor and and friend of mine, Nat Ross and his wife Amy, who are s still heavily involved in Bike Bentonville and and the cycling industry, and having that connection, but still not being you know, heavily focused on one or the other, I think gave me a more broad perspective of of how to combine those things and really really focus on the kids rather than what my next step was either as an educator or in the bike industry. Brandon Morphew: this is about kids, this this program and I take us back into that first class, that first bike tech class, the bike tech class that you taught. what what you know, what did the room sound and feel like when the students were were genuinely engaged? Paul Stucki: I really put a lot of energy into trying to get a bike tech program going at Aspen High School. And we ended up transitioning out of Aspen before that program came to complete fruition. It's now been going about as long as my program at Vista has. but when I got to Vista and got my program going Right as we were getting ready to get our delivery of bikes and equipment, COVID hit. And it was really, really a tough time for me, but it also really opened a lot of doors to me as an educator as well. I got the opportunity, Project Bike Tech was was very much relying on Barnett Bicycle Institute at the time to train teachers, and so I got to go. Spend a week at Barnett Bicycle Institute in Colorado Springs and met Jeff Donaldson, who is now Project Bike Tech Executive Director. I consider Jeff to be one of the one of the premier educators in bicycle technology ever. And it's really, really cool to have him on board here. But what that did for me was we were the first class that got back into Barnett Bicycle Institute after the COVID explosion hit. I think it might have been. July of that summer, and so I learned firsthand from him and from Barnett how I might be able to run a program within the public school while COVID was still going on. So my first experience at Vista charter school here in Montrose, when I brought the program in, well, I was able to set the classroom up during that first summer of COVID, and then in the fall, we actually met with our board and I introduced them to all the protocols that Barnett Bicycle Institute was using and I said, I really think that we can handle having 10 students in this building under these circumstances. And so that's how I got started. It was really, really tough. You know, our bicycles didn't show up for a while because of the supply chain problems with COVID. We had a full workstation. Park Tool was fantastic. They're a big partner of ours. And so classroom setup, if you can picture, I was hoping to get over to the classroom today and be able to actually, you know, do this meeting from there. But it's really, really impressive setup that we have for our classrooms. ten shop ready stations completely equipped with park tools all the way through wheel truing stands and and pretty much anything a professional quality st station would have, and a teacher station which is equipped with some of the things that you wouldn't normally find. frame alignment gauges, for example, and things like that. So that first year, I had 10 students to myself, nobody else in that whole entire school building. And we were allowed to operate. through the whole entire fall. I think we were only out of the building for about a month and were back in during that month. It was really challenging, you know, because this is a hands-on course. Luckily, we have a partnership with Shimano and we were able to use the I don't know if you're familiar with Shimano's STEC online education program. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Paul Stucki: we were able to use that as as some form of online education through Zoom. definitely not ideal, but we were still able to keep contact and so I was given free reign with a group of ten students for a whole entire school year and it gave me a ton of of chance to just develop it enrichment activities and and really learn the curriculum and and realize how much I loved it. Brandon Morphew: It's it's Paul Stucki: I probably the only way I made it through COVID. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, it was a it was just such a strange time for everyone. I think there's and that's a a unique way to to go through it too, to and to be able to interact with you know, young people in in a new way. did you realize in the first class that you were reaching kids differently? Paul Stucki: I did have one student from that particular class that went on and and worked in a shop, a local shop here, Montrose Surf and Cycle, straight out of high school. spent a little bit of time doing some internship things, and back and forth while he was still in class. And he's no longer in the bike industry, but but he made a big impact on that shop, you know, as a student coming in and really, really was was I guess what you would say a a star student. At the same time, I had several students during that first, you know, go around that really had no interest in bicycles. They just wanted to do something mechanical. And I think that's a really important thing for people to understand about Project Bike Tech, and it really opened my eyes at that point. we're able to provide just general shop skills, you know, shop awareness, tool use, introduction to things like torque and you know rotational momentum and and so many you know STEM related ideas. and Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Paul Stucki: I had kids that were you know went on to to join the the Colorado Macy University welding program and their instructors were like, wow, this is great, you already have shop skills. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Paul Stucki: We at Project Bike Tech kind of are trying to leverage that a little bit because the CTE thing is is really opening up a lot right now. And it's really you know, the yes, the bike industry is is a super important part of what we do, but overall, those life skills and those ability to function, you know, be able to pull your car over and actually change the tire yourself. Brandon Morphew: it's a really good point. And I it got me thinking about, you know, you're teaching mathematics alongside the bike tech and and you you mentioned torque. what gear ratios, torque spec, you know, wheels, you know, how wheels are are are put together. What what do you think, you know, that a a student gets versus, you know, just just you know a a workbook that they wouldn't wouldn't normally get from that other mainstream education. Paul Stucki: It's it's really An impressive dialogue that can be had there with students that wouldn't normally open up to a dialogue. good example, a couple redneck kids that I have with with lifted trucks, you know. why Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Paul Stucki: is it that your speedometer's off, dude? And why am I not going to buy that truck? Because even though your odometer says 95,000 miles, it might have a few, you know, 10 or 20,000 more on it just because your wheel size isn't correct. We actually have a lab that we do, wheel size matters, you know, and they get to experiment with. Circumference formula and how that affects you know speed and things like that. And then we roll that over into when we start doing gearing, we have another STEM-related lesson for gear development where they actually will will document all the gears. And it's really nice to go with an old school, you know, triple chain ring bike where you have Brandon Morphew: Yeah, yeah. Paul Stucki: some some overlap in gears because then they can see that they can do an actual rollout with a team of students measuring and really internalize what. what that gearing does and what it represents and how changing a tire or wheel size or, you know, different crank rotations. it's the you know, the sky's the limit and and those kids that don't really aren't really relating it in terms of the bicycle, it's like, yeah, you've got a low rider. Well guess what? You put through those little tiny wheels on there, that's change your odometer too. What's it doing? Brandon Morphew: That's a good point. So you've raced you've raced professionally, you've coached young riders, you've guided in the mountains, you've taught math, you know, supported alternative education. What what connects those experiences for you? Paul Stucki: I think overall it's the it's the human experience and seeing people develop confidence. Young people, colleagues, it's you know, when I was guiding, seeing people, you know, learning things about their bicycles, learning things about the environment. you know, d coaching is like that, you know. we started to see the the influence of of the rider positioning and and you know the wider handlebars and the stance and how much that was affecting you know rider efficiency and and seeing riders actually wow that actually works you know and and I use this even back in mogul skiing having a video of someone and their ergonomics and then having them look at it and saying I really am doing that I need to you know and and just I think it doesn't matter matter what exact area it is, but in all of those in all of those focuses, seeing that aha moment and that wow, d that like evolution of confidence is is I think what makes my day, you know, and and my career, to be honest. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, I love that. I and I've I've personally been through those experiences on both sides, had that aha moment as a writer and and also as a coach. I think that's just amazing. so bringing it back to the the classroom, what would you say the real difference is between having a program, established program like you have, versus having one passionate teacher and and their very cool class. Paul Stucki: Well, think what we bring as an established program is a level of respect and really a viability to what we're presenting. You know, I think for example, having Jeff Donaldson come on board as our executive director. you're probably I think pretty much anybody that's ever pulled up a bike fix video knows who Calvin Jones is. And Calvin Jones is on our board in helping us develop curriculum now. Project Bike Tech has come a long way in in really refining our ourselves as as a true leader in the in the bicycle education technology arena. there's some great people out there just doing some wonderful things in their classrooms on their own. Like our our our level one certificate, I think, is is a real good epitome. Does it say we're pushing out a a a master mechanic? No. But it does, you know, it does say we've we've got a skill set and a measurable teacherable paradigm that allows students to develop in a consistent way. And and ha and we have a certificate that represents that. And I think that's a that's a really, really, a really proud thing for. Yeah. Brandon Morphew: When so thinking about the program, when a teacher moves into administration or changes schools, retires, what what usually breaks first in the in the program? Paul Stucki: really depends a lot on what kind of energy that teacher has put into trying to have a legacy at that school follow them, you know. Have they taken time to have someone else in the building shadow and join their classroom and be a potential replacement? how much energy are they putting into preserving their program versus the s I call it the school shuffle, you know, in public education it's it's a tough thing because, you know in order to maximize your retirement and education, you really need to try to climb the ladder. That wasn't my goal as a teacher. I you know, that's why I finished teaching Project Bike Tech classes because I wanted to go out feeling good about what I was doing. and I'm You know, honestly I'm paying the price for it a little bit in my retirement, but what does it do to the classroom? It it's tough on the school. It helps to have a school who's very invested in addition to a teacher who is passionate to bring it. a school that's invested will take the time to really search for a a good candidate to come in. will take the time to to put out some advertising and and you know make it sound desirable and they'll also take the time to to look within their their staff. It's much easier, especially if a bike tech position is only going to be maybe one or two periods a day. You can't really go out and hire somebody for that, you know, that wants to unless they want to be a part time employee. Plus, you've got that paradigm of having a licensed teacher in the classroom. Sure, there are some shop, you know, people that would make great bike tech instructors, but they're not certified teachers. There's also some certified teachers that necessarily don't have the bike tech background. Finding that fit is tough. You know, we we do offer a training program every summer. We just finished that up mid-July. and immediately following that I put out my kind of welcome back letter because we have some some schools starting. Starting up as early as August 3rd this year. and that's when you find out, by the way, so and so transitioned. They went to either they wanted to be the athletic director, which is a step up, you know, and but now we've got this vacant bike tech teacher. we've got somebody that's interested, but they don't they're they haven't been trained. We are really, really stepping up our game, trying to reach out and be able to train as many teachers as we can as soon as we can, so that they can feel confident in their roles because they that's a big big part of them wanting to continue in that program is them feeling comfortable and confident. You know, it's not just because it's a cool bike thing to do, you know, the the the comfort level's gotta be there because managing a classroom of high school students isn't easy anyway. Brandon Morphew: No, thinking about the what who who's who's easier to prepare? You know, you're thinking about the classroom. do you have to be a teacher to be able to do this? Paul Stucki: That's a that's a really interesting question. I've seen all scenarios work well and I've seen all scenarios break down a little bit. you know, I think we've had we've got a great guy right now in Prescott, Arizona, that is a is a you know, bike industry has a mobile shop and is teaching. He loves kids and and worked real easily into the management of a classroom because of his passion for teaching that. some shop employees don't find themselves very comfortable watching. walking into a classroom full high school students, you know? especially if you've got, you know, you've got maybe 60% of the class that really is super interested in being in there. And then you've got the other 40% that, this is kind of cool. I just want to do it. And then you've got the the kid that the principal said, you know, I really think bike tech is going to save this kid. Will you take him? You know, and so you're gonna you're gonna be trying to to tr to trigger something exciting, you know, in that student to get them involved as well. And so, you know, I I don't think there's a magic formula, one versus the other. You know, it's more about the person and trying to get that person excited and confident with what they're doing. And that's that's a large part of my role as the educational support specialist. Trying to give teachers what they need when they need it and make them feel confident in their role, that they can go and and also that they can have fun with it. You know, that's a big part of of teacher longevity is if you're if you're just seeing it. as a grind every day, it's it's just not going to work out for long term. But if you're able to find some fun in it and and enjoy what you're doing and see those aha moments, you know, I can work with anybody and get them, you know, feeling good about teaching bike tech as long as they f they want to and they and they you know are willing to put some time in. So I've got I've got a training program next week in Aztec, New Mexico. got some trying to get a little cohort of Southwest teachers there. I've got a teacher from Cortez coming over from a a a job turnover that happened at our our open school there, and working with a teacher in Carbondale, Colorado to come over as well. And it's kind of nice to have a cohort like that rather than just to pop into one school because then you get these different experiences. And teachers can go, I didn't think about this. I feel I I'm confident, you know, teaching a brake adjustment, but I don't really know how to teach a measurable, repeatable process doing that versus the teacher that comes in and says, you know, I love bikes. I have no idea how to adjust anything or how these tools work. Brandon Morphew: Mm-hmm. Paul Stucki: you know, as long as you've got some some passion and some willingness and some interest, that's what it takes. You know, we we can help with the rest. Brandon Morphew: So you have the program, it's running, you get the the Project by Tech graduates, they walk into a local shop. What should the shop owner expect from that student? What should they what should they expect them to know? And and what is unfair, unfair or unreasonable to to expect them to know? Paul Stucki: That's a really good question, Brandon. Thanks for that. it's something that we've worked with a lot to try to to try to manage. And so I th I think the best case scenario is for the school to have a good long term working relationship with the local shop or shops in the area and for the shops to understand that yes, you've got a student who's who's got this little level one certificate. What does that really represent in terms of skill? Well It's not somebody who's gonna walk in and be your lead mechanic. You know, it's somebody who can walk in, has some shop experience, knows how to use a bike stand. I'm gonna take a little side trip here and you can reel me in whenever you want Brandon Morphew: Sure. Paul Stucki: to. But one of the exercises I do in class is just having a whole a whole room full of bikes and having the students rotate them in and out of the shop stand, you know, and and my my whole spiel there is, you know, you guys do not want to be the guy that walks into the shop and and looks like an idiot trying to get the bike into the bike stand. It's not an easy thing to do, you know? you need to be able to find the balance point. You know, we're gonna practice this. Okay. Everybody, I wanna see your I wanna see that you know how to adjust the bike stand, what all the parts are, that you're not gonna take skin off your hand from, you know, dropping it down. you know, it's it's the things like that that that I think shops need to understand. We're spending time making sure that students know how to select a tool that fits, you know, spoke wrenches. you know, amateur wheel builders are notorious for stripping nipples on s on spokes, you Brandon Morphew: Mm-hmm. Paul Stucki: know, because they don't know how to choose a spoke wrench. you know, so so you can't expect a level of proficiency from one of our students to walk in and just take over as your as your full time mechanic. What you can expect is to have someone, especially if you're willing to take the time and host them for some some visits and get to Know that student, you can expect someone to walk into your shop that's a trainable trainee that understands how shop tools work, that understands the basic components of a bicycle. They're gonna need some some you know some internship time to be able to, they're gonna need a good mentor to learn, you know, they haven't adjusted 20 derailers on on 30 different bikes. They haven't, you know, seen the ins and outs. They've been exposed to it and they know, you know, they have a good idea of how things work. They're ready to. be mentored by someone who's a veteran mechanic. Brandon Morphew: just a really great program. You have a a guest speaker series that I found interesting. what was the problem you were originally trying to sol solve with that guest speaker series? Paul Stucki: So I was hired part-time and I'm still part-time and basically just to support teachers and one of my tasks was to host a monthly meeting. And those monthly meetings, it's A understand they have to be virtual because we have we have stu you know schools in all four time zones. It's difficult, tr tremendously difficult to pick a good time. you know, so we we have a you know a a fairly moderate attendance to those. and then making them productive over time, yes, it's great to sit and talk about, you know, your favorite lesson or you know what what kind of adjustment things you've run into or or how do you get the the kid in the corner that doesn't want to be in class from detuning all the wheels while you're not looking, you know, kind of thing. and we, you know, it was actually Jeff, our executive director, said, you know, I've I've got some good connections in the bike industry. Maybe we should have somebody come in and do like just a mini workshop for an hour during one of those meetings. And we tried it and it was fantastic. You know, we've had Patrick Zeust, product manager from Full Speed Ahead. we've had Anthony Diaz who developed his own suspension, custom suspension shop in Durango. my son, who I mentioned, does a lot of media management and and product launches and stuff for Shimano. We've had him come in, we've had just a a good variety and we've got a lot of other folks on board for this coming year and we record those sessions. So it's it's kind of neat. We know at one point we had considered doing it more of a podcast style, but it's kind of neat to have other teachers be able to join a call and just you know be able to ask questions or say, well what happens if if you do this? You know, kind of thing. And so we record those, and we have a library available on our curriculum drive where teachers can go back and either A, if they weren't able to attend a meeting, they can get up to speed, or B, they can use portions of that or the full thing in class with students. We we have a career development unit that I think is is really a lot of fun for me because I've had you know exposure to some really cool careers in cycling, and I like to share those. And and And so I I really enjoy that. And this is another another tool that the teachers can use. Hey, you know, we've got Anthony Diaz with his spiked mohawk that never graduated high school, who's you know, engineering, you know, custom made suspension parts, you know, that all the top pros want. it's just kind of another avenue that's that's really brought, I think, some diversity to our programming. Brandon Morphew: is there one that stood out to you in that series that that you think was either made an exceptional impact on a student or or even f to the program in general? Paul Stucki: So I would say Anthony Diaz definitely in terms of student impact. we had the second time I've I've done a couple of sessions with Anthony, he's a good friend of mine, and when put it out there that we were going to do another session, I had actually two or three teachers chime in and say, Hey, can we bring students to that session? I've got a student that wants to ask Anthony about what about how he finished high school, why he didn't go to college, why he why he all of a sudden chose to get into, you know, bicycle technology and and it was really cool to see that interaction, you know, and those those aha moments from students again, you know, saying, wow This is a guy I can connect with and maybe I do need to finish high school and and that way I can I, you know, once I've got that, you know, that ticket punch, that that little piece under my belt, I can branch off any direction I wanna go. But I've got these little subset of skills. you know, I think even for s for students that don't wanna be in the bike industry, going through a bike tech class gives them, you know, just a a good rounded another piece, another I guess, certificate or or piece of ticket to being a a solid adult. Brandon Morphew: there's so many things where if you finish something, right, if you get that thing done, that's that's a you know, you get to take that with you wherever you go. That's it's it's a big part of I think being an adult. It's such a good good point. Paul Stucki: For sure. Brandon Morphew: so a big chunk of our audience are bike shops, bike shop. team members, bike shop owners, just thinking about these independent shops stretched so thin. we have to move meetings around because people they're running the business. It's a day-to-day what's the a useful role that a shop could play without overpromising? So what how can they get involved? Paul Stucki: You know, I think even just a connection with a mechanic in the shop, if they're able to w if they're willing to have a mechanic come over and and do a a guest mechanic day in classroom, I think that can be really super impactful. I think also them being willing to host a student or a a field trip to see what how a shop looks, how things operate. You know, we've got students who who are in and out of bike shops on a fairly regular basis. You know, we've got Nika racers who probably have nicer bikes than the instructors. and then we've got kids who have never been in a bike shop and really don't know. And I think developing that relationship with, you know, being willing you're right, shops are stretched thin. Schools are too, you know, being willing come into the school and and be a part of that program or being willing to host student or students in the shop, even if it's only for a quick visit. those things can be super impactful. And that's the kind of thing that can develop a relationship for a student that might say, that's a really cool place. I I might want to work there someday, you know, and and I might work harder in class because I want to make a difference and I want to show up and I want to do well, you know, at the at that shop. And I I I'll have a connection. I'll I'll know somebody at that shop. I don't I'm not scared to walk in. I I can see, hey Joe, you were the guy. Yeah, I that was really cool when you came in. Hey, I might be interested in working here. Brandon Morphew: Fantastic. you've been you've been doing this for a while. is there something you tried either your yourself in in the classroom or or project bike tech that that either didn't work out or worked out entirely different than you expected? Paul Stucki: Event management can be kind of a tricky slippery slope for us. you know, it's it's something that we'd like to be involved with. but walking into an event, setting up a tent and a bunch of tools and a stand, and then having a student who A might be real timid to interacting with the public and B really doesn't have the skill set to be, you know, able to take charge of that that bike. I've I've had that a couple of times where where I felt like I didn't want to put students into a situation that was that far over their heads. What we've kind of relegated ourselves to, if we're going to be involved in an event now, is we offer what we call a free bike check. We're not going to do like an overhaul, we're not going to do a major assessment, but You know, our kids can check the air, make sure it seems like this bike is ridable. They can run it through the gears, they can lube the chain properly, you know, they can spin the wheels, tell them if there's a problem, and then say, I would recommend you take this to such and such a shop to get it fixed. That's a more comfortable role. where I have seen that become more successful. A lot of our schools refurbish bikes as a volunteer for different programs within their cities. they may bring them to another group of of impoverished kids, they may donate to homeless. We've got several bike programs. And in that respect it's not so much putting the kids on the spot as the event thing has definitely been, you know I have to be careful about how I go into those. You know, I d I don't want I don't want someone who's panicked about getting to the start line and their derailleurs not working to have a student who's really not prepared to to handle that make their bike malfunction worse before they start an event. That's that's that's really a tough situation for us. Brandon Morphew: So without sharing any, you know, details that a student wouldn't wouldn't want shared, can you can you think of a situation, maybe one young person whose relationship with the school or with the program really changed in in this you know experience? Paul Stucki: Sure. You know, working at the alternative school here in Montrose, I've got several of those. One that sticks out a lot is a student I mentioned earlier that that transitioned to to working in a shop. when I'll call him Sean. When Sean first work first came into my classroom, he really didn't have any interest in bicycles. He was just trying to find something different to do that might get him through. and that was the case for a lot of our students. students and I really saw over time Sean transition to wow this is this is kind of cool. I'm learning how things work, you know? Sean eventually, I think maybe three or four years at Matro's Surf and Cycle. Sean also really got hooked on the Shimano S Tech program to the point where it was almost to his detriment to he spent more time doing Shimano S Tech in class than he did focusing, you know, in some other other teachers' classes, than he did focusing on getting their credit. So I I won't go down that rabbit hole too far, but but you know over time it really did help Sean realize that he wanted to finish high school he wanted to graduate and and he developed that slow overtime relationship with the shop where he felt comfortable walking in and saying hey I'd really like to apply for a job here here's my here's my skill sean took his notebook to work for probably the first year that he worked at Montreux Surf and cycle and would would look things up that he didn't remember, you know, and it it became kind of a a shop I guess sort of one of those private not I don't want to say joke because it wasn't really a joke but like okay Sean maybe you should go look this up but you know he developed the confidence that just over time it made me super proud to see see that happen. Brandon Morphew: What does success look like for the student who does who competes who completes the the bike tech program but they they don't ever work in a shop? Paul Stucki: You know, I think that varies a lot. we've got students have just started their own handyman business. you know, because they've developed a confidence with tools, measurement skills. We spend a lot of time with with just basic basic skills like that. we've got I've got students who who, you know, use this program as a a platform to get into motorcycle mechanics because you know, I actually had a motorcycle mechanic come in and talk to our class at one point, and it's like Hey, you know, there's some similarities, there's a lot of differences. but if you walked into my shop and said you had these skills, you know, and and we did have a couple students go that direction and and they're functioning in in shops here around town. I've had students just call me and say, Man, I'm I I do keep in touch with a lot of lot of former students. I have a lot of former students talk to me later on and and even the students that that come and say, you know, I I never really did anything mechanical in my career, but able to fix my sink. I was able to put new washers in my sink when it started leaking. I knew how to figure out whether a a repair video on YouTube was was actually gonna lead me the right way and it was legitimate or you know is this the Calvin Jones of Sinks kind of thing. so so all those different varieties I think. Brandon Morphew: I'm sort of reflecting on you know my troubleshooting and I wonder if you know maybe some of that experience learning how to you know wrench actually has has impacted, that kind of confidence you can you can do it and and I think that's a big part of it. Think about five years from now. What would make you say that Project Bike Tech is successful, has truly succeeded? Is it like more classrooms, stronger teacher retention, deeper shop partnerships, you know, more graduates either in the industry or just in general, or something maybe that's less measurable, less tangible. What what would success look like in five years? Paul Stucki: think we'd like we'd really like to have a larger footprint, you know. I think there's there's a lot of schools who aren't aware of what we're doing that would really like to have that would really benefit from having a Project Bike Tech classroom. so I think I all of the above though, Bran, and everything you just mentioned it would be a huge success for me. you know I I see successes on a daily basis, those small successes. I think overall us being able to expand our footprint and develop those relationships with shops and have shop Promoting us as well as us promoting shops. You know, that that win-win situation that everybody in the bike industry looks for. There's a lot of egos in the bike industry. And you know, it's it's really it's really beneficial for us to be humble about what we're doing and and develop relationships. And we overall we really want to see schools successful, and we really think vocational education, the expansion of vocational education. Educational education is exciting and I think overall probably the expansion of Project Bike Tech you know would be a huge, huge success for me. And we're and we're focused on that and and it's working. Brandon Morphew: So after all this, racing, coaching, teaching, supporting the a national program like Project Bike Tech, what what makes the the bike steel feel like freedom for you rather than work? Paul Stucki: That's a good question too. You know, I there I went through a little bit of a phase there. when I sort of retired from from racing where I didn't really wanna be at events for a while and and sorta I I went through this phase of all I wanna do is ride my single speed by myself on a on this trail with nobody around. I even went through a a phase I and I hesitate as a bike tech person to say this, but I went through this this minimalist phase where I wasn't carrying tools. It was all just me and the bike, we're gonna go out. And then I broke down fifteen miles out and that was the end of that one. for me I I still I still love just the the getting out and getting you know, the bicycle as a tool for freedom and getting out into the hills is is the biggest throw for me, you know, and then and then sharing that with with peop with other people who who get excited about it is is every bit as enjoyable. Brandon Morphew: I I'm I share your joy for the for the bike. I think a lot of folks that listen do. Paul, thank you so much for sharing Project Bike Tech and and giving us a a peek into what you do and and into yourself. It's a wonderful story. Project Bike Tech is projectbike tech dot org. so we'll we'll we'll put some links in in the show notes and and I just wanna you know thank you for joining and and thank everyone for listening to Spokes and Strategy, where the business of bikes meets the joy of riding. Thanks so much. Paul Stucki: Thank you so much, Brandon, for having me.