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I Asked 3 Podcast Producers What Actually Grows A Show · Gimbal Podcast

0:00
My goal is always to have them go,
0:01
whoa, you really did your homework.
0:03
It's interesting to create this one piece of content
0:06
that we're redistributing and trying to have
0:08
all of these different audiences in mind.
0:10
We constantly have guests that come back
0:11
and they're just like that conversation
0:12
was nothing like I thought it would be,
0:14
which is really powerful.
0:15
Finally getting to see behind the curtain
0:18
of all of these creators is fascinating to me.
0:19
It's so fun.
0:21
Hello, my name's Emma Krepps.
0:23
I am the podcast producer for the Dr. Hyman Show,
0:26
hosted by Dr. Mark Hyman.
0:27
My name is Alex Michael.
0:29
I head up guest outreach and commercial partnerships
0:31
for How I Write, which is hosted by David Perill.
0:34
I'm Mia Zimonyuch.
0:35
I'm a researcher and story producer.
0:37
I've worked on shows like Colin and Samir
0:39
and Digital Spaghetti by Patreon.
0:41
Mia, I wanted to turn to you about the research stage.
0:45
What are you looking for in particular
0:47
with the guests that you profile?
0:50
And how do you make sure that your work is unique
0:52
compared to other shows that that same guest has been on?
0:56
Yeah, I mean, the uniqueness is a big challenge
0:59
as we book bigger and bigger guests.
1:02
I came into Colin and Samir's team at a time
1:05
when they were like right before they hit a million subscribers.
1:08
And then everything after that was kind of like
1:10
booking larger and larger guests
1:12
that had already kind of like made the rounds
1:14
in the interview podcast space.
1:17
So it's definitely a challenge to come up with questions
1:19
that they hadn't already been asked like 10 times.
1:21
Honestly, like Nardwar and what's the Hot Wing Show?
1:25
Sean Evans, I'm so glad you're welcome.
1:27
Yeah, Sean Evans is, yeah.
1:28
So Sean Evans and Nardwar are like my shrine of research stuff.
1:33
So I'm like, okay, how would they do it?
1:34
Like I can't exactly.
1:35
I think my theory is that Nardwar interviews people's like moms,
1:39
like there's just information
1:40
that you would not get from the internet.
1:42
But I start by doing like a deep dive
1:44
on their social media.
1:45
I think a lot of people have not like cleaned out
1:47
their Instagram feeds for a long time.
1:49
So if it's someone really big,
1:50
I'll like go really far back like when I was doing research
1:53
on Amelia de Moldenburg.
1:55
I went like very far back in her social media
1:57
and I read like her old interviews that she had done
1:59
when it was just like a magazine and not like an interview show.
2:02
I just try and spend as much time as possible
2:05
going as far back as I can in order to just like,
2:08
I don't know, I think you can kind of get the unique questions
2:11
if you're willing to go deeper than everyone else.
2:14
So if you're researching somebody like Amelia de Moldenburg,
2:17
how much do you lean into the stuff
2:20
that she's most well known for?
2:22
And how much do you lean into those Nard War like deep cuts?
2:25
You definitely do want to hit on the questions
2:29
that cover things that that person is known for
2:31
just because like that will be helpful
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for like the montage that you come up with
2:34
and like that is where the audience relates to that guest.
2:37
Sometimes the like super in-depth angles
2:40
that we touch on don't even make it into the final cut.
2:43
But like it's helpful for like facilitating the conversation
2:46
in person.
2:46
So like if we can bring up something
2:48
that makes them really surprised
2:49
but it doesn't necessarily make it into the final edit.
2:52
Like my goal is always to have them go,
2:53
whoa, like you really did your homework.
2:55
Is there a moment where that happened?
2:57
Do you have one question that you like really got someone good?
3:00
The only one I can remember is a very deep cut
3:04
and we interviewed Jesse from NELK on Call and Insomere.
3:09
That was fun for me
3:10
because I just am not familiar with them
3:12
but as a researcher I just like threw myself
3:14
into their whole background
3:15
and he started his clothing line
3:18
with this like very specific shade of green
3:21
and in the research doc I was like,
3:23
oh, like they probably won't mention this.
3:24
I just threw in the fact that like all of the buildings
3:28
in the town where he grew up
3:30
where his dad used to like work
3:32
were that specific shade of green
3:33
like in this very small town in Canada.
3:35
I can't remember the name of it now.
3:36
I wish I could.
3:37
Is it Hamilton?
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That's where my wife is from.
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I think he's from Hamilton.
3:40
Yeah, I think it might be.
3:42
Yeah, or something like that
3:43
but there was like a very specific shade of green
3:45
on the buildings that was the exact shade of green
3:48
that he like used for his sample pieces
3:50
in his like streetwear brand.
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So I just threw that in the doc
3:53
and he was like, oh, I never noticed that
3:55
but I guess you guys are right.
3:56
Try to get some little edge in there.
3:59
It's an excellent example.
4:01
Yeah, but it's, I mean, it's always unexpected.
4:03
I just, yeah, the most fun part of research
4:06
is just like going as far down the rabbit hole as I can
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and I am never able to predict what we end up finding
4:13
but it's really fun to like go back in time
4:15
like in the time machine of someone's life.
4:17
Nice.
4:18
So Emma, my question to you is,
4:21
what does an episode look like
4:23
from start to finish working with Mark Hyman
4:26
and what is your involvement?
4:28
My experience with Mark starts
4:31
from guest ideation and guest booking.
4:33
So I manage a lot of that,
4:34
juggling his calendar with other team members.
4:37
So we'll meet regularly to listen to who we've had
4:40
inbound and who Mark is interested in
4:42
and then also who we are interested in approaching
4:44
like myself and the rest of the podcast team.
4:46
From there, once we've confirmed the guest,
4:49
I handle all the booking and everything like that.
4:51
I'll go into our prep where I do all of the research
4:54
on the guest.
4:54
And so that is a very extensive thing for me to do.
4:57
I create like a 10 to 15 page document
5:00
for the host to read through.
5:03
I also outline a proposed interview for Mark.
5:06
And the thing about Mark is he is the expert.
5:08
And so although I can put some suggestions
5:10
and the kind of the angle we want to take the conversation,
5:12
I really do leave it to him to kind of allow
5:15
his own curiosity to lead the conversation,
5:17
which also I feel like facilitates a better conversation.
5:20
And so once we are in the recording stage,
5:23
if I'm not there in person,
5:24
then I do join virtually for the recording in itself.
5:27
I also do a pre-interview with all of our guests myself.
5:30
So I do that one-on-one with our guests
5:31
to just answer any questions, fill in any gaps
5:34
that I was able to not find within my own prep.
5:37
And then also to just kind of get their insight
5:39
on how a successful interview will be for them
5:41
or hear about things that might not be publicly available,
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maybe they're writing a book
5:46
or maybe they've started some new research
5:47
that isn't published yet.
5:48
And I get kind of behind the scenes look,
5:50
which I'll then include in our prep for Mark.
5:52
And then yeah, once we're in the recording,
5:55
we'll hop on the record.
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And then if there's anything I feel like we missed
5:59
or anything wasn't clear,
6:00
I just really have the audience ear in mind
6:03
during the actual recording.
6:04
And so at the end, I don't really interrupt
6:06
in the conversation.
6:07
I wait until the end and we'll do any pickups
6:09
after they've recorded.
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We'll go back on questions, clarify anything, et cetera.
6:14
Then once we move into post-production,
6:16
I work with our editor, he'll do a first cut.
6:18
I'll review, I'll give him any notes.
6:20
And we work on that edit together,
6:22
although I'm not physically in the timeline,
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I'm just kind of leading the cuts.
6:26
If we want to restructure, which we do sometimes.
6:29
Once we've reviewed that and we finalized our edit,
6:31
I'll begin writing our trailer,
6:33
which we also use for our intro
6:35
across both audio and video.
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And so I physically write a paper edit
6:39
and then I will outsource that to our agency,
6:41
which will then assemble that.
6:43
I'll work with them on different rounds of revision.
6:46
I'll also sometimes have to send that to our guests
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for review, which I'm currently managing,
6:50
which is really frustrating,
6:52
as when you have some more high profile individuals.
6:56
We get a say in the final cut.
6:59
Let me clarify, we have a podcast guest release.
7:01
And so normally we send that out to our guests
7:04
and normally they don't have a say.
7:05
But for some higher profile guests,
7:07
such as like a David Beckham or Chris Paul,
7:10
there is some additional approvals that need to happen.
7:13
And so that's not our preference,
7:14
but we just kind of have to manage it with each guest.
7:17
And it's pretty challenging to remain
7:19
on production timelines when there's so many people
7:20
that need to review so many different assets.
7:22
So yeah, I handle all of that.
7:25
Like all of our communications,
7:26
anything operational I am managing.
7:29
Once we've developed our trailer,
7:30
I'll move into ideating our title and thumbnail.
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And so then I'll leave that.
7:34
I'll either like get our designer to do it.
7:37
Sometimes like today, I've had to like make it myself.
7:40
That's kind of most of it.
7:42
How far in advance are you working on?
7:45
Like the thing that you worked on today,
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when will that actually get published?
7:48
The thumbnail I'm working on today we're publishing tomorrow,
7:51
but we actually do batch record.
7:53
So I've never worked on a show
7:54
where we batch record so far in advance before,
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which is really great because we have a lot of leverage there.
7:59
Since we've started doing the two episodes per week,
8:01
which we started in January,
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that's been a little bit trickier.
8:05
And then considering how busy my host is,
8:07
like our talent, it's really hard to book with him.
8:09
So yeah, we do batch record quite often.
8:12
So you might be looking into
8:13
three or four months down the line already
8:15
with some stuff that you're filming.
8:17
Yeah, of course.
8:17
Yeah, like my prep.
8:18
I'm doing for a record that's like beginning of May
8:21
that I've started like last month,
8:22
but obviously that won't go out until June that episode.
8:25
Alex, how does that cross over with the work that you do
8:28
around booking the guests and giving them a pre-interview
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and those kind of early prep work?
8:33
There's a sliver of crossover.
8:34
I'm still kind of wondering like when Emma sleeps.
8:36
That's...
8:38
I'm just blowing, that's just awesome.
8:41
How much you handle and how involved you are.
8:43
I think that's super cool.
8:44
Yeah, I mean, the way that we talk about it
8:46
is like most of my work is everything that happens
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before the interview.
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And then I sort of handed off to obviously David
8:53
handling the interview himself
8:54
and then we've got our post-production team.
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So I'm a lot more on the front end.
8:58
So in terms of the overlap pretty heavily
9:00
in the guest ideation and outreach,
9:02
that's where a pretty big chunk of my energy is spent.
9:04
We don't do a pre-interview,
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which I'm actually interested to hear more about.
9:08
I knew this was a really interesting idea
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and how you navigate,
9:10
especially with like a higher profile guest
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like demands on their time versus, you know,
9:14
so I think that's super interesting.
9:16
But we don't do anything like that.
9:17
Emma, do you want to follow up on the pre-interview
9:20
because I'm also curious?
9:21
Yeah, so most of the time I get one.
9:24
Sometimes it is if we have a really quick turnaround
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of say something came up last minute
9:28
and we're recording in a couple days,
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I might not always get the opportunity
9:30
to do a pre-interview.
9:32
Someone like David Beckham, I'll meet with like his team.
9:35
For example, I won't meet with David himself
9:37
and considering that up,
9:38
so there's many people involved
9:39
in bringing that to life.
9:40
So it might not necessarily be the talent exactly,
9:42
but maybe it's their assistant or someone
9:44
who's doing research with them, but it's really good.
9:47
So with it, I think I said before,
9:49
I kind of look for in gaps that I couldn't find in my prep.
9:52
So I've usually completed most of my prep
9:53
by the time I meet with them.
9:55
One example that came up last week was
9:57
we are having a guest on who mainly discusses fertility
10:02
and we're gonna be recording with her next month.
10:04
And we've noticed that our audience
10:05
has not really been responding strongly to fertility.
10:08
So I wanted to take the conversation
10:10
in a different direction,
10:11
but I was still trying to figure out where that would be.
10:14
So when I met with the guest,
10:15
I did just kind of say like, hey, if I'm honest,
10:19
I wanna move away from fertility,
10:20
but your book is about fertility.
10:22
How can we find common ground here?
10:24
And so I was able to work with her
10:25
to find a really interesting strategy
10:27
where she was also excited by and would be really proud
10:30
to have that conversation and still be like,
10:32
it's a success to me and my brand and my mission.
10:35
So that was really valuable then.
10:36
In regards to the time booking,
10:38
oh yeah, I would just say
10:39
sometimes you can't always get what the talent themselves,
10:41
but also maybe with someone for their team.
10:43
And I always say it's gonna be 10, 15 minutes.
10:45
And I feel like when you're respectful,
10:47
people's time they sometimes will give you more
10:48
if you meet it.
10:49
That makes sense.
10:50
My show is so small,
10:52
but I find that a pre-interview has been helpful for,
10:55
just kind of like qualifying how someone comes across
10:58
on camera as well if they don't have
10:59
a ton of podcasting experience.
11:01
There's been a couple instances where I've interviewed somebody
11:03
and then I'd be like, well, I don't know if,
11:05
or it's been a pre-interview.
11:06
And I'm like, I don't know if this is the right way
11:08
of like helping you, you know, share your message.
11:10
Like maybe we can do some text-based posts
11:11
with you instead or something like that.
11:13
It's also good for kind of aligning
11:14
with the things they wanna talk about
11:16
that might prompt them to share the episode
11:18
with their own audiences and also the stuff
11:20
that they absolutely don't wanna talk about
11:22
that would piss them off when they come into the recording.
11:24
So it's been helpful.
11:25
And I just do it through WhatsApp.
11:27
I just ask for a WhatsApp voice note
11:29
and it seems to be sufficient.
11:30
They do it on their own time.
11:31
Obviously this is a much smaller podcast
11:32
so we have a lot less stakes than the stuff
11:34
that you work with, but I do find it pretty helpful.
11:36
Okay, my next question is about each of the creators
11:40
that you work for and that you have worked for.
11:43
What have you learned about greatness
11:45
about the people you work for?
11:47
What do you admire about them?
11:49
We'll start with Alex and David.
11:51
There's quite a bit to admire about David
11:53
and the way he goes about things.
11:54
The first is that like everything that he does
11:56
and everything that we do with respect to the show
11:59
just has this insane sort of uncompromising quality bar
12:03
and that's not just with the big stuff,
12:05
with the guests, with the aesthetics, with post-production
12:10
but it's just all the little things.
12:11
And you just like when you're constantly exposed
12:13
to somebody who has such an uncompromising quality bar
12:16
and every little aspect of what they do,
12:18
there's just like this, I mean, it's the rising tide thing
12:20
like everything just sort of elevates.
12:22
The other thing I think is just David's got
12:24
like a super high degree of openness and spontaneity
12:28
which number one makes him a really, really good interviewer
12:31
because he just creates this container
12:32
where these conversations can just go anywhere
12:34
and we constantly have guests that come back
12:36
and they're just like that conversation
12:38
was nothing like I thought it would be.
12:39
And it's because he just has this frame of openness
12:42
and curiosity which is really powerful.
12:44
You know, that doesn't just come through
12:45
and the interviews themselves, it comes through
12:46
and how we do things and how we think about commercial
12:49
partnerships and how we think about what kind of interviews
12:51
we're gonna do and the guests and the formats.
12:53
There's just this blank canvas sense that permits.
12:56
Is there a catch 22 to both of those characteristics?
12:59
Like if his attention to detail and interest
13:02
in perfect quality is so high,
13:04
does that shoot yourselves in the foot ever?
13:06
Do you fall behind in pipeline?
13:08
I think the answer is yes, inevitably.
13:11
Like with respect to the quality bar thing,
13:13
yeah, that's why it's helpful to have a team
13:15
and a team of people who aren't scared to speak their mind
13:17
and say like, hey, this just doesn't make sense
13:19
in this context or like this is not the direction we need to go.
13:22
So I think that's, yeah, that's just the power of having a team
13:24
and having people around that he trusts
13:26
and we all trust each other to say like, you know,
13:28
let's maybe consider doing this a different way.
13:30
With respect to the conversations themselves,
13:32
I mean, it's the nice thing about having this format
13:34
where you can have this beautiful thing called post-production
13:36
where if it goes the direction that just doesn't make any sense
13:39
like we can work with that in post,
13:41
but you know, better to keep that sense of openness
13:44
and curiosity and then try to wrangle it back in
13:46
and then to just have sort of an,
13:48
at least on our experience a really rigid way
13:50
of going about things.
13:51
Emma, what have you learned about greatness
13:53
about Dr. Mark Hyman?
13:55
One thing I really admire about Mark is that his podcast
13:58
is one of 110 things that he does.
14:02
He's a doctor.
14:03
He is very involved in like policy
14:06
and like many other things.
14:08
He's multiple businesses.
14:09
And so I really respect how when he enters the interview
14:13
like he can really engage and really turn it on.
14:16
He is 66, he's been publishing to his YouTube channel
14:19
for about 18 years, I think.
14:21
So he's very experienced in interviews
14:24
and being in the public eye, I guess I would say.
14:27
Just no matter what he genuinely believes in his mission
14:31
and like really just genuinely wants to help people
14:33
regardless of what's going on,
14:35
externally the noise, whatever it may be
14:38
like his heart and his mission is very genuine.
14:42
And so that is something else
14:43
that I'm like really proud to be a part of,
14:45
especially with someone like spearheading
14:46
this kind of business, this company
14:48
that gives me a lot of comfort and a lot of peace.
14:50
He'll work alongside that.
14:52
How does he and in turn his team straddle the line
14:56
between leaning into what's really trendy and popular
14:59
and staying true to the core mission
15:00
that you said he's really passionate about?
15:03
So he is a doctor of functional medicine.
15:05
And so I think that remains true
15:07
and that being remains true throughout the podcast
15:09
regardless of what topic we're talking about
15:11
or what guests we're having on.
15:12
So whenever we do have a guest idea
15:15
or maybe a topic idea for his one solo episodes,
15:18
we always try to look at it through the functional medicine lens.
15:21
So it could be anything from like,
15:23
I'll keep using like David Beckham's personal journey
15:26
like we'll really go into his nutrition and stuff like that.
15:29
Or maybe we're talking about GOP ones.
15:30
If we're gonna have an expert on it,
15:32
we really have to be diligent about them aligning with Mark.
15:35
They can disagree on some things,
15:37
but foundationally we try to remain
15:39
within that functional medicine lens,
15:40
although that can be really broad, right?
15:42
We can talk about allergies, we can talk about endometriosis,
15:45
many topics, you know,
15:47
the new public food policy.
15:49
What is it, the food guidelines in America?
15:50
This is way over my head.
15:52
Oh, my Canadian, my Canadianism is coming out, yeah.
15:56
So okay, there's the podcast god, Diary of a CEO.
16:00
And one thing that I've observed in the last little while
16:02
is they don't often interview CEOs as much anymore.
16:06
And so I'm like, it sounds like Mark is saying true
16:08
to be talking about like the things that he is the expert in,
16:11
the things that are core to his values, which is cool.
16:13
Mia, I wanna ask you about, well, I mean, everybody,
16:16
everyone that you've worked for is someone that I profoundly respect,
16:19
Colin, Samir, and Jack Conti as well.
16:21
These are some of the most interesting creatives in the entire space.
16:25
Let's pick Jack for this question.
16:28
What is something that you admire about him about greatness?
16:31
Yeah, I mean, Jack definitely came to mind first,
16:34
just in terms of what Emma mentioned,
16:36
where he is the CEO of a tech company
16:40
in his time is so sought after
16:42
and everyone needs his input on everything.
16:44
And yeah, I think in terms of greatness,
16:47
I wonder if compartmentalizing is the right word,
16:50
but it's almost like he is there to do that specific thing
16:53
and be the podcast host and he's able to just shut off
16:57
the like tech CEO brain and be a full three-dimensional creative
17:01
in conversations with these other creators.
17:03
Like there is no part of him that is holding back
17:07
or where his brain is thinking about like his millions
17:09
of slack messages probably like he's able to fully be present,
17:12
which I think is a lot harder than it looks.
17:15
And yeah, I think in terms of greatness,
17:17
like he's very disciplined with his time,
17:19
like he reviews all the documents we give him.
17:22
Obviously like it's a lot shorter of a document
17:25
than other creators I've worked with just to respect his time
17:27
and be like, here is only what you need,
17:29
like the three bullet points that are most important.
17:31
But yeah, I think he's able to be present in the room
17:34
with creators for the hour or two that we have him.
17:37
Jack Conti is the kind of person
17:39
that he just seems to be excellent at everything he does.
17:41
He's so creative, top 1% creative
17:44
and then he's also top 1% business person.
17:47
When he's coming into a film to record an episode
17:50
of Digital Spaghetti or whatever else he's working on,
17:52
how does he react to the team around him?
17:54
Is he open to feedback from the team?
17:56
Is he open to ideas or does he just have everything
17:59
going on his head?
18:00
He's super open to ideas.
18:01
I mean, we give him the like pre-interview sheet
18:05
and like research kind of one-pager.
18:07
You know, sometimes he like deviates from that
18:09
if he's excited by a certain topic
18:11
and sometimes there's questions that we've written in
18:13
that he doesn't necessarily ask.
18:14
But he's always game for pickups at the end
18:17
and he's always like open to our ideas as well
18:20
and that just makes it a lot more fun to work with him.
18:23
And I will say as a researcher, a big help with Jack
18:26
is that obviously our show covers other YouTube creators
18:29
and he is just naturally a fan of that space.
18:32
So almost always like when we pitch him guests
18:34
or when we are trying to cover a certain topic
18:36
like he's already familiar with it and excited about it
18:39
and that just makes our job a lot easier, I think.
18:41
I'm glad to hear that.
18:42
This show for me, like recording this show
18:44
is probably like the most fun I have all week
18:46
because everybody that I speak to,
18:48
they work for people who I just admire so, so much.
18:51
And you know, coming in and finally getting
18:53
to see behind the curtain of all of these creators
18:57
is fascinating to me, it's so fun.
18:58
I'd be so curious to hear about the process
19:00
from going from your research to creating that one page.
19:03
Like what are you putting on that?
19:06
How are you distilling it down and selecting what you're telling?
19:08
Yeah, no, for sure.
19:09
I think that's a good question
19:11
because it is generally the same
19:12
for most episodes of DigiSpaghetti.
19:14
So with Jack, since he's sitting down with a creator
19:17
and going through generally one video,
19:21
there are some other creators where like
19:23
there may be a short form creator.
19:24
So we would have like five to 10 videos or something like that.
19:26
We try to give him three video options
19:29
and just see which one he gravitates towards most
19:31
or which one we think like would have
19:33
the Rich's conversation.
19:34
We'll usually like highlight and be like,
19:36
we like this one because of this,
19:37
he can choose of those three, whichever one he's most excited about.
19:41
And kind of like a short bio about them,
19:44
which is helpful even if he's heard of them,
19:45
just kind of like where they got their start
19:47
and where they might be moving to in the future.
19:50
And then kind of like an angle that we as the team
19:53
are excited about.
19:54
But yeah, we try to make it as short as possible.
19:57
There is always like a backup research doc,
19:59
but since we have our own pre-interview call with the creators,
20:04
but we also have kind of a pre-interview
20:05
just like internal team call with Jack.
20:08
My job is definitely to just have the knowledge in my head
20:11
in case he like has follow up questions
20:14
and not necessarily just like send him a 20 page research doc
20:17
like I just have to do my homework
20:18
if in case he has questions for me.
20:21
So you meet with Jack beforehand.
20:23
And you kind of brief him on like this is the guest
20:26
and you're like, that would be such a valuable time
20:28
to have I think.
20:30
I want to pivot to video
20:33
because this is a semi-new thing
20:36
for the podcasting world.
20:37
Podcasts, you know, when it comes to mind
20:40
is like an audio experience,
20:42
but YouTube and now Spotify video.
20:44
Now Apple as well has made video podcasting
20:47
extremely important.
20:48
How do you think about video podcasting on your teams?
20:52
Videos all we do.
20:53
We never really released audio for like Spotify and Apple.
20:57
It was something we thought about,
20:58
but it was more like our show was so YouTube focused
21:02
that as long as we were discoverable
21:04
like on YouTube for other creators
21:06
and kind of like that community,
21:07
we never really worried about like audio downloads.
21:09
So for us, it's kind of everything.
21:12
Obviously, Collins Mirror are completely different.
21:14
They are very much like a two-pronged show.
21:17
But we always laughed when people would call us a podcast
21:19
because we just think of ourselves as like a YouTube interview show
21:23
that terminology has always kind of been like assigned to us.
21:26
Because you've shown so visual.
21:27
Yeah.
21:28
And people bring out like kind of props and stuff.
21:31
And we have little like lower third graphics
21:33
that are kind of educational.
21:34
So we were always kind of struggling
21:36
with the idea of making it audio only.
21:39
And I think that's why we ended up just focusing
21:41
only on video.
21:42
I'm not super surprised to hear that
21:43
from, you know, the digital spaghetti team.
21:45
To any of you consume podcasts through video normally,
21:49
for me, it's audio.
21:50
Like I might discover something through video,
21:53
but if I really like the content,
21:54
I'll probably switch to audio
21:56
and then start listening to it while I'm on a run
21:57
or while I'm driving a car or something like that.
21:59
That's how I do it too.
22:00
Like I usually discover a show through like shorts
22:03
or clips or YouTube.
22:04
And then if I really love it,
22:05
that is like saved for the long drives
22:08
or like the workouts or whatever.
22:10
I'm doing both.
22:11
I also listen to a lot of long form
22:12
that I don't think they have an RSS feed,
22:14
which is like I just discovered a channel
22:16
called the Dr. Daff Show or Dr. Dar Show.
22:20
It's kind of like Jubilee style
22:21
that really take a lot of inspiration from Jubilee,
22:23
where they're like 45 minute videos of like panels
22:25
or like round tables or, you know,
22:27
what is it, the middle ground or whatever,
22:29
kind of that ideation?
22:31
And so I don't know they have RSS feeds.
22:33
I haven't actually looked.
22:34
So I do like, I have video playing,
22:36
but I'm not watching it.
22:37
It's just that that's where I find it yet.
22:39
Mia, you mentioned shorts as a way of finding new content.
22:43
How thoughtful are each of you on your teams about shorts?
22:48
Oh man.
22:49
Didn't even get to finish the question.
22:50
Please, please.
22:51
I'm very excited to talk about our team
22:53
on Digital Spaghetti, who does our shorts,
22:55
just because they're incredible.
22:56
So it's Chase and his team at Good Bandit in New Zealand.
23:00
If you've ever liked one of our animated
23:03
Digital Spaghetti shorts,
23:04
it's likely that his team has worked on it.
23:06
They are such wizards with shorts
23:08
and they take care of everything
23:10
and they really like give us incredible,
23:12
an incredible brand on our Instagram
23:14
and they use different art styles for each short.
23:17
Yeah, I could go on, but Good Bandit in New Zealand
23:21
is the way to go.
23:22
Is that something that you're writing into the episode
23:25
and saying, hey, we need to hit on this
23:27
and you're doing that in advance?
23:29
Or are you waiting for the conversation to happen
23:31
and then identifying moments that could be shorts?
23:34
Yeah, so it would be the latter.
23:35
We just kind of go through,
23:37
once the conversation is fully recorded,
23:39
we go through and highlight any lines
23:42
that we think would be good shorts.
23:43
It's generally like when Jack gets really excited
23:45
about something or when he's like,
23:46
oh, that's really interesting.
23:48
And then we just kind of hand it over
23:50
and they do end-to-end shorts production
23:52
and they also help us with ideation
23:55
in terms of short selection sometimes.
23:57
Like Chase will have an idea of what would work well
24:00
and then they just do their animation wizardry
24:02
and we have an awesome thing to upload.
24:05
Alex, are you involved in any of this at all?
24:07
How I write?
24:08
Our place production guy,
24:09
the guy who has all of our post-production pipeline
24:10
is named Johnny and he works really deep
24:14
and just kind of working with David
24:15
to identify clip and short opportunities
24:17
and then we've got a team of editors
24:19
who kind of like me his team kind of helps put them together
24:21
but it's a pretty collaborative process.
24:24
It's interesting, I'm still thinking about,
24:25
I'm still kind of stuck on your other question
24:27
about video and podcasting and it's interesting
24:29
because we have a really similar philosophy to Mio
24:31
which is like we kind of hesitate to call ourselves a podcast.
24:33
It's like, oh yeah, I guess we are a podcast technically
24:35
but the term interview show feels a lot more,
24:38
a lot more appropriate.
24:40
And I don't know, it's so interesting.
24:41
I think it's like in a world where it's really easy
24:44
to do 37 things at one time
24:45
and it's so natural to listen to the podcast
24:48
while you're driving or while you're running
24:50
and just be consuming tons of different things.
24:51
Like I actually only watch video podcasts now
24:54
and it's just because it lets you like,
24:56
yeah, it's just such an interesting way
24:58
to just immerse yourself in an experience
25:00
and be like, wow, these are human beings
25:01
who are having this like incredibly deep
25:03
both verbal and nonverbal exchange
25:05
and there's just like so much of this energetic thing
25:08
that comes through video that I think you just can't get
25:10
when you're like going for a run and like,
25:12
oh shit, I'm gonna rewind this
25:14
because I didn't pick that last thing up.
25:15
They said versus like, wow, did you see how his face changed
25:18
and that question got asked you really lit up
25:20
and I think it just adds a really human dimension to it
25:22
that is really easy to skip over in this world.
25:25
And how does the Doctor Mark Hyman show think about shorts
25:29
and discovery?
25:31
Just trying to manage consistent views
25:33
and stuff like that.
25:34
So we actually stopped publishing shorts
25:36
to our YouTube channel for a little bit
25:38
to try and see if that would impact
25:40
like a little bit of like a hole that we had
25:42
and I can feel like that really had a positive impact
25:45
but we do still create short form content
25:47
for other platforms.
25:48
And so I am usually spearheading the kind of like moments.
25:52
I'm not picking out timestamps or anything like that
25:54
but say Devin was talking about how he went plant-based.
25:59
I would be like, hey, like around this time code,
26:01
I love this story of Devin
26:03
and then I will send that to our team
26:04
that actually creates our trailers
26:06
and they will then create the short form from there.
26:09
So that's kind of my own touch in it
26:11
but it's all same like it's outsourced
26:13
to a different agency that we work with.
26:16
The other thing I'll say about video
26:17
is we this week as of tomorrow
26:19
we will actually be finally moving
26:21
to publishing video on Spotify
26:23
which has been like a whole long journey for my team.
26:26
I know it's been a conversation since like before.
26:28
I joined the team back in July.
26:30
It's been a conversation they've been having
26:31
for a long time so that'll also be clear
26:33
that we won't be able to do at least for now.
26:36
Video on Apple once that comes out
26:38
because we are megaphone users.
26:40
So I do think there's like some interest there.
26:42
I'm really curious to see how that performs.
26:44
The other thing I'll say that's kind of like
26:46
in my head as we're discussing video
26:47
is just how different all of our audiences are.
26:50
Whether it is our YouTube audience,
26:52
whether it's our audio listening audience
26:54
which is our strongest audience,
26:55
whether it's our social media audience,
26:57
like our Instagram audience,
26:58
they are all such different e-dringes.
27:00
We definitely skew female.
27:02
And so it's interesting to create this like one piece
27:05
of content that we're redistributing
27:06
and trying to have all of these different audiences in mind
27:09
while you also have your strategy and growth
27:11
where you're trying to approach this new audience.
27:13
And so I think that's been something
27:14
that's been really top of mind for us
27:16
that we've really been trying to like navigate
27:18
and wade through within our team.
27:20
I think the reason I bring this up
27:21
is because putting my YouTube strategist cap on now,
27:25
I'm thinking, you know, if we're getting the majority
27:27
of our new viewers and new listeners from shorts,
27:31
it feels like a much more important part of the pipeline
27:34
than I think a lot of creators realize
27:36
when it comes to podcasts.
27:38
And I was speaking with another strategist college recently
27:42
and he works on a podcast also
27:44
and he says that they build their podcast for the shorts.
27:48
So it's changed the way that they've asked questions.
27:51
It's made their questions a lot tighter
27:53
so that they can work as a short.
27:54
They've gotten responses that are, you know,
27:56
usually 60 to 90 seconds
27:57
and then they cut them out really quickly.
27:59
And then the whole interview is less
28:01
of a free flowing conversation than hitting this beat,
28:05
then moving onto this beat
28:06
and moving onto this beat and moving onto this beat.
28:08
It's actually barely a podcast at all.
28:10
It's more like a series of shorts stacked together
28:12
to make something that's like 60 minutes in length.
28:15
And that grinds my gears a little bit.
28:17
Like I don't know how to respond to that
28:19
because on one hand, I get it.
28:20
We have very small audience on the show
28:22
but the people who do reach out and say,
28:24
hey, great job, say it because they saw a short
28:27
or something like that.
28:28
You know, and then maybe we got them to listen
28:30
as a full-time listener.
28:32
So I get it.
28:32
But at the same time, I'm like,
28:33
that kind of takes away the purity
28:36
of what a podcast is or used to be.
28:38
Yeah, that kind of reminds me more of like subway takes.
28:41
Yeah, shows that exist only as short form vertical,
28:44
which is not to say that like they're bad or anything,
28:47
but it's interesting that the show,
28:49
and correct me if I'm wrong,
28:50
but like it started as a full-length podcast
28:53
and then they just kind of shortened it down
28:55
to like vertical only.
28:57
They have a full-length podcast
28:59
and I have never listened to it
29:00
and I love subway takes.
29:02
So that's something, I don't know what to take from that,
29:04
but I find that interesting.
29:05
I feel like there's room for both.
29:07
I don't know, I feel like you can have the full-length,
29:09
yeah, the full-length conversation
29:10
and then I don't know, maybe I was gonna say
29:13
maybe like pick out the best moments,
29:14
but if they wanna make sure it's like optimized,
29:16
you could do it as a pickup at the end
29:18
and be like, oh, you talked about this,
29:19
can you just say that in like a tighter way, I guess?
29:22
Yeah, at the end we'll like throw in a quick fire
29:24
for social media like purposes.
29:26
You know what I mean?
29:27
We can keep it in the conversation,
29:28
but like we definitely leverage that
29:30
on like Instagram or something like that too.
29:32
I think it opens up the conversation like what is a podcast
29:35
then, you know, and I think this whole conversation
29:37
around video and everything like that.
29:39
I come from traditional like podcasting industry
29:41
and so besides my YouTube producer friends,
29:45
normally I am usually one of the few people
29:47
that publish a podcast to YouTube
29:49
and a lot of the people I know that work in podcasting
29:52
don't know anything about YouTube or video to begin with.
29:55
And I do know that sometimes the traditional podcast industry
29:59
sometimes is not very pro video
30:01
and I can understand, right?
30:03
And I don't know about you guys, but I loved podcasts.
30:06
The reason I got into them, I started working on them.
30:08
I started my career by creating my own show
30:10
was because you couldn't see the person, right?
30:12
I liked that anonymous aspect to it.
30:15
I love the intimacy of the audio,
30:17
but I don't know, I also love YouTube, for example.
30:19
And so it's weird to have the world's combined
30:21
and then like we said, marketing and growth
30:23
and discovery YouTube is such a tool.
30:26
So it's a weird dilemma to navigate sometimes.
30:29
Are there discovery tools that are not YouTube
30:32
and shorts that you and your teams lean into?
30:34
There is, but there's not ones that we have used,
30:37
but someone like a Katie Lawer
30:39
who used to work at Bumper, she's freelance now.
30:41
She has so many great ideas of like different ways
30:44
to tap into new audiences
30:45
and don't leverage video, right?
30:47
Even just like things like newsletters
30:49
and like really the beauty of podcasting
30:51
is the niche, the niche is to it, right?
30:53
That's like one of the biggest strengths
30:54
is one of the biggest beauties of it
30:55
and like the more niche the better.
30:57
And so just finding a way to meet those niches
30:59
where they're at.
31:00
Like a growth and strategy person is like,
31:02
I couldn't really speak to it.
31:03
I'm sure someone like Katie would have way better ideas
31:05
than what I would say,
31:06
but just finding those people where they are, right?
31:08
So like are they in different groups?
31:09
Are they meeting in person somewhere?
31:11
Like how do you build the awareness
31:13
around your brand or your show in those places, right?
31:16
Showing up to the events
31:17
or maybe like sending something that's related to it?
31:20
It's interesting that we got to the topic of how podcasts
31:25
are able to like promote themselves without social media
31:28
or YouTube because I used to work for a company called Realm
31:31
that does like scripted podcasts
31:33
and kind of like audio fiction
31:36
and the discovery through that would be
31:38
through like the actors that they were able to book.
31:40
I was just thinking I'm like, how are people able
31:43
to promote their shows like without?
31:46
And it would be through Instagram,
31:47
but the main driver would be like the pre-existing audience
31:49
that this actor actress already had
31:51
and they would be like, oh, I did this like fictional podcast,
31:54
like sci-fi thing, check it out here.
31:57
So yeah, it's just an interesting channel to think of.
31:59
Even for unscripted podcasts, it brings up the question,
32:03
does chasing the biggest guest bring the best reward?
32:07
Alex, you laughing.
32:08
It's, yeah, that's like, that's something we grapple with a lot.
32:11
It's like, I think there's a natural tendency to say like,
32:13
cool, let's just get the really big guest
32:14
and like that's gonna grow our show
32:16
and that's how it's gonna blow up.
32:17
But I think about an example.
32:19
I'm actually talking about strange distribution mechanisms.
32:22
We had this writer named Adrian Chikowski on the show.
32:25
He's a sci-fi writer.
32:26
He's wildly popular at a certain niche,
32:28
but like, hadn't really been interviewed much.
32:30
And if I go on the street and say like, hey,
32:32
have you read Adrian Chikowski's latest book,
32:34
people will just kind of look at you strangely.
32:36
And that interview just blew up.
32:39
I mean, it did so well.
32:40
And one of the reasons we found out that it did really well
32:43
was because somebody posted about it on Reddit
32:45
in this big sci-fi community.
32:46
People just kind of swarmed to it.
32:48
So there's a lot of lessons there,
32:50
but I think one of them is, you know,
32:52
you could go for the really big name and it might do okay,
32:55
but we've had plenty of huge name authors
32:57
and their interviews have performed, you know, fine.
33:00
And we've had some niche people like Adrian
33:02
who just, you know, they're really good interviewers.
33:04
They're really good at their craft.
33:05
And you also happen to tap into a sub-culture
33:07
who's just like, has an appetite
33:09
for what that person is doing.
33:10
And maybe they haven't been exposed as much.
33:12
There's just like this perfect storm.
33:13
So what's the lesson there?
33:15
Like, how do you find more Adrian opportunities
33:18
and fewer ones that turn into be stinker episodes?
33:21
It's a question we keep trying to answer.
33:23
There was a post, I don't know if you all know this,
33:25
the blogger Goren, but GWERN,
33:29
but he had a post quite some time ago
33:31
and it was about, it was actually analyzing
33:33
Dora Keshe's podcast and like,
33:35
how he's been able to find these really high alpha guests,
33:38
like Sarah Payne being a really good example
33:39
who nobody really knew who Sarah Payne was.
33:41
She was just this, you know, this lecturer.
33:43
And now she's done like a seven part series with her
33:46
and it's the highest, you know, view thing on his channel.
33:49
And it was just this really interesting philosophy
33:51
about there.
33:52
High alpha guests out there
33:53
that have a lot of really interesting things to say,
33:56
but like they haven't really even interviewed on the topic
33:58
or they haven't interviewed the right way
34:00
and they're at a certain point in their career.
34:01
And so there's this really interesting exercise
34:03
we go about of like trying to find high alpha guests.
34:06
We're like, yeah, of course everybody wants to interview
34:07
in our world, you know, J.K. Rowling or Stephen King
34:10
and like we'd love to do that.
34:11
But what is the formula for the Adrian's?
34:13
And the more that we can try to codify that,
34:15
it's just a really interesting exercise.
34:17
Emma, you talked about David Beckham coming on the show.
34:20
You've also had some less prominent names.
34:23
What do you think about all this?
34:24
Yeah, we have a lot of people leading research.
34:27
So they are usually academics or research and scientists
34:30
like that, no one knows who they are.
34:32
They don't even have a social media presence.
34:34
And so we navigate something like that.
34:36
The leading researchers in Parkinson's, for example,
34:38
we had these two men on and doctors.
34:40
They're neuroscientists, I think.
34:42
But it was one of our strongest episodes we've had since
34:44
I've come on.
34:46
And like I said, they had a book,
34:47
but they didn't really have big social platforms
34:50
and it was so successful because of the topic
34:52
and how they were communicating their ideas
34:55
and kind of again, that perfect storm of they had the knowledge,
34:58
they had the experience within their career.
35:00
They were seeing the research firsthand,
35:01
yet not many people were knowing of them.
35:03
And then they were kind of having a moment
35:04
within the podcast interview wellness space.
35:07
But then we've had someone where it's more high profile.
35:10
I think with that, I usually am really hesitant
35:12
to have these really high profile people
35:14
that are maybe just like more like actors
35:17
or something like that that aren't as specific
35:19
to our topic.
35:20
The host of the show is a doctor, right?
35:21
And so people are coming for health information.
35:24
Our audience is mainly US as well too.
35:26
And like considering the healthcare system there,
35:28
like these people really need a lot of help
35:30
because they don't have much opportunities.
35:31
Let's just be frank, I'm Canadian, I can say this.
35:34
And so that's real.
35:36
Yeah, if I don't have much access in my community
35:41
or whatever from my government,
35:42
like I'm trying to see how information.
35:44
And so if you're gonna have these high profile people,
35:46
if they're not specific to your niche or your topic,
35:49
whether it's like maybe it's an actor who like wrote a book,
35:52
right, for Alex's example.
35:53
Again, maybe if I'm completely wrong in this,
35:55
it's like that's not maybe their expertise is in writing.
35:58
Maybe they did write a book,
35:59
which could be interesting conversation,
36:01
but it's a hard thing.
36:02
So when I think about approaching these higher profile people,
36:04
I try to think like, are they gonna be open
36:07
to discussing something new?
36:08
A lot of these higher profile people are very PR trained
36:11
or like we talked about before.
36:12
Like they've had the conversation
36:13
they've done the podcast rounds.
36:14
So I think if you can't have a unique angle
36:17
in the other pieces that they have to be open to discussing it,
36:20
Mark has a company called Function
36:22
where you get your blood testing done.
36:23
And we've had a lot of high profile people
36:25
get their blood testing done,
36:26
but they do not feel comfortable discussing their results,
36:28
which could be such an opportunity
36:30
for a really unique conversation of them being like,
36:33
hey, I never knew I had this marker, right?
36:35
Or I recognize that like X, whatever, you know?
36:38
And so I think if there's no unique angle
36:41
that you can take with them,
36:42
it's not gonna be a strong conversation
36:44
because they've had this conversation a hundred times
36:46
or there's a very big limit
36:48
on where they're gonna be able to discuss.
36:50
Sounds like the common thread here is
36:53
the closer a guest aligns with the core value of your show,
36:58
the higher likelihood of success you have.
37:00
With Alex's example, Adrian, not a big no name,
37:04
but an excellent writer.
37:05
And so appeals to the writing audience very, very well.
37:09
And then with yours, Emma,
37:11
it's more about people who are specialists
37:13
at their discipline in the healthcare world.
37:15
And I think it sounds like it's really tempting
37:18
to go out and chase the big names
37:19
because they get the big followings.
37:21
And it sounds like that actually might,
37:23
I wouldn't say backfire, but yield lesser results
37:26
than finding somebody who is excellent
37:28
at the very specific thing that your podcast speaks about.
37:31
I think that's right.
37:32
And I think you can go even like a step deeper.
37:34
And like what we try to do is we try to model
37:36
the exact characteristics of like the ideal
37:39
how I write guests.
37:40
Some of it too, one of the things I didn't mention
37:41
is like a lot of it actually has to do with,
37:43
there's a certain kind of person that we found
37:46
that like David just really has a deep rapport with.
37:49
And so for us, that specific example is like somebody
37:51
who thinks really, really deeply about like language itself.
37:54
Cause to Emma's point, you might have somebody
37:55
who's written a book, but that's, you know,
37:58
the book is maybe just a vehicle for an idea
38:01
or it's kind of a vehicle for themselves.
38:03
As opposed to like we found that the people,
38:05
the kind of guests that do really well,
38:07
are people who just like think really, really,
38:09
really deeply about language are also very articulate
38:11
about it, also have like,
38:13
so it's about like again, codifying what is that guest look like
38:17
and then try to find as many of these people as we can.
38:19
And then, right, Emma at the very beginning of the show,
38:23
you mentioned very briefly inbound guests.
38:26
So people who are reaching out to be guests on the show.
38:30
How do you think about whether or not they're a good fit
38:33
and how do you think about inbound as a whole?
38:35
Inbound is, I feel very fortunate to be in a position
38:37
where we have inbound more so than we can even keep up with
38:41
amongst our team.
38:42
We only have 52 slots to fill for our guest episodes a year.
38:45
And so with maybe some partnerships that we have
38:48
that like we are have agreed to do a conversation
38:51
with which doesn't happen often,
38:53
who Mark is interested in, who we are just seeing
38:56
within the zeitgeist or we think would be a really good fit
38:58
for the show, that really leaves a small number of slots
39:02
for, okay, now I'm gonna look at my inbound
39:04
to be completely honest, like we have usually too many ideas
39:07
for spots to fill.
39:08
So for us, I think it's just kind of like looking
39:12
at unique approaches, but we are,
39:15
if I'm fully transparent, we don't often leverage
39:18
the inbounds.
39:18
Maybe say, for example, we wanted to discuss ADHD
39:23
and specifically ADHD in women.
39:25
And so we are really struggling to find a guest
39:27
and like trying to find an expert,
39:29
so if anyone has any ideas, please let me know.
39:31
But with that, when we're trying to like approach
39:33
a certain topic, I'll actually go into my inbox
39:35
and I'll search whatever the keywords are.
39:37
Maybe it's, I don't know, like something else,
39:39
like another topic we want to discuss.
39:41
And so I'll search it up and I'll kind of like see
39:43
what my inbound was, because I get so many,
39:45
if I'm honest, I don't have the bandwidth to read them all
39:48
or look at them all.
39:49
And so that's a bit of time where like ADHD, for example,
39:52
we did have someone pitch and like they had a book coming out
39:54
and they were actually a really good guest
39:56
to discuss this conversation.
39:57
So then I was able to like leverage that.
39:59
So I'll be honest, this is the first time I've worked
40:01
on a show that has had this much inbound before.
40:03
This is a very unique experience
40:05
and I don't think it's common for most broadcasters,
40:07
like if I'm completely frank.
40:09
So I recognize that it's a good problem, half.
40:12
Mia, everybody in the creator economy
40:14
wants to be a guest on Colin and Samir.
40:16
How did you navigate picking the right people to be guests?
40:21
You know, with Colin and Samir,
40:22
I luckily that was not one of my responsibilities.
40:26
I was mostly, yeah, I was mostly heading up research,
40:30
but they have a great producer, Marilyn,
40:32
who she was the one who was kind of like the quarterback
40:35
running the plans with who actually gets to be on.
40:38
And it is, I mean, we internally do pitch guests
40:42
to Colin and Samir.
40:43
And like you said, Emma, it's like who is in the zeitgeist
40:45
and who would make sense to kind of come on
40:47
in terms of like bringing the most value.
40:49
I don't want to know what Marilyn's inbox looks like.
40:52
I'm sure it's very full of people.
40:54
But yeah, I mean, I can kind of relate with with digital spaghetti,
40:57
a big part of the way that we prioritize it is mostly
41:00
like through our own internal pitches.
41:02
And then if we're maybe wanting to cover a topic
41:05
or if there's like a certain like timely trend
41:08
or event that's happening,
41:10
we could kind of go back into our inbox,
41:12
but generally we're kind of prioritizing guests
41:15
that we think would be the right fit at that time.
41:18
Right, that makes sense.
41:20
What's the best podcast out there and why?
41:23
Is this like a, we can't answer with our own show.
41:26
If it's your own show, why is it the best show out there?
41:28
I'm so curious.
41:30
I mean, I'll say this as a caveat.
41:32
Like I'm not actually a huge consumer of podcasts.
41:34
When I got into this, I joined this team
41:36
because how I write was my favorite podcast
41:38
and it was pretty much the only one I listened to.
41:40
Nice.
41:41
So I saw that they were hiring and I said,
41:43
I would love to be a part of that.
41:44
As far as the best podcasts out there,
41:46
I just think, let's just do a here's what's great about our show.
41:49
One of the things that we talk about a lot is like,
41:51
because writing in and of itself could be conceived as a niche topic.
41:55
But we talk a lot about our interviews
41:57
are like writing as a prism for life.
41:59
And so it's really fascinating how many people we get commenting
42:03
our audience who says like, I don't write anything.
42:05
I'm not a writer.
42:06
I'm not particularly interested in writing,
42:07
but I found myself listening to every episode
42:09
because it's just such a window
42:11
into like what it is to be a human being.
42:13
And I think in terms of places to get that
42:16
and using writing as a prism,
42:17
there's nowhere that comes even close
42:19
because the level of depth and nuance
42:21
and curiosity and playfulness and just again, that quality bar.
42:25
It's just a really cool show
42:26
and you just get these conversations
42:27
that you leave like feeling just like spiritually nourished, you know?
42:31
Cool, Emma.
42:32
I know I'm gonna like end this call and be like,
42:34
oh my god, I just thought of 10 other ones.
42:37
I, one that I've been enjoying recently I set up before
42:39
and I just confirmed the name is,
42:41
I don't even know, I wouldn't necessarily say it's a podcast either,
42:44
which is kind of ironic that we've had this whole full circle moment.
42:47
But it's the Doctor Daft show.
42:49
I think she is elevating, like we have an opportunity
42:52
with our shows who were selected on as a guest
42:54
as an opportunity to platform that individual.
42:56
And I think that takes a level of responsibility as well too.
42:59
And so again, there's something that I try to be aware of
43:01
there are limits beyond my control too.
43:02
And so I do think that the Doctor Daft show,
43:05
she's really elevating voices,
43:06
especially female voices that need to be heard right now.
43:09
And so I really love it.
43:11
I love the question she's asking.
43:12
She's having really hard conversations
43:14
and like going there within the conversations.
43:16
And so I love seeing both sides
43:18
and that's exactly what the show is.
43:20
I'm a Libra, I don't know if that's part of it.
43:22
I know it's like that, but I just love,
43:24
I really love to see both sides and pick my own
43:26
kind of like where I fit.
43:28
And so that's the show that I think is doing
43:30
a really good job right now.
43:31
My hard questions, you mean things that are normally taboo
43:34
or things that are...
43:35
Yeah, normally taboo, current events and current challenges
43:40
that I think our culture is going through.
43:41
And then especially like through a female lens,
43:43
like things that I am like personally grappling with
43:46
or like questioning.
43:47
And so it's interesting to hear people
43:48
on both really extreme sides of the spectrum.
43:50
And for me to be like, okay,
43:51
I want to hear your perspective and I want to hear yours.
43:53
Whereas like sometimes when you watch maybe like
43:55
the Jubilee or something like that,
43:56
they have kind of the same cast I would say.
43:58
And I totally recognize why some things are so niche
44:01
that like you also have to find someone that's comfortable
44:03
on the camera and like has had this experience.
44:05
So sometimes it could be hard to find these people.
44:07
But I think that she is like kind of like throwing out
44:11
a broader net if that makes sense.
44:13
Cool, good answer.
44:14
Mia, bring us home.
44:15
You know, you said this was a softball question,
44:17
but I'm struggling.
44:20
I do, I guess I can give a shout out to my friend
44:25
Valentin does this show called Orbit for Creators.
44:28
And I think it's been really cool.
44:29
It's a smaller show, but it's been really cool to see
44:32
someone who is a creator themselves, interview other creators
44:36
from a lens of like purposefully looking
44:39
for kind of like smaller creators, if that makes sense.
44:42
It just feels like it's kind of by creators for creators,
44:45
which a lot of shows say he, I've seen behind the scenes
44:48
like how dedicated he is to providing value
44:50
and serving as a space for people who are really, really
44:54
early on their journey, because I feel like the problem
44:57
with a lot of podcasts as they get bigger and bigger
44:59
is like it becomes less and less relatable
45:02
when they start to have like these big CEOs on the show
45:05
and these people who are super accomplished,
45:06
like the people who are just starting out, right?
45:09
Like the people who are just starting out
45:10
wanna hear other people who are maybe like in the same
45:13
struggle as they are.
45:15
So his show came to mind.
45:16
That sounds like an excellent show.
45:17
I'm gonna check that out.
45:18
Something I would be interested in.
45:20
I firmly believe that we are in the era
45:23
of the thousand true fans right now,
45:25
at least that's what I'm telling myself
45:27
because we are not a big, big podcast by any means,
45:29
but we have a very small audience who seems to like it
45:32
and I think we can grow that just a bit further
45:34
and that will make me happy with this show.
45:36
So I'm glad that you brought that up.
45:38
Okay, the three of you, thank you so much for doing this
45:40
as our first round table episode.
45:41
I think it went well.
45:42
I learned a lot from the three of you.
45:43
It was nice to connect as well.
45:44
So cool, I think mission accomplished.
45:47
Thanks for having us.
45:47
Thank you.
45:48
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45:50
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45:53
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45:55
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45:58
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45:59
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46:02
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46:04
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46:04
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46:06
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46:08
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46:09
See ya.