Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 6/12/26: Iran Worries Trump Mentally Ill, Hunter Biden Defends Platner, Antonio Reynoso, CAIR Attorney

Transcript

6/12/26: Iran Worries Trump Mentally Ill, Hunter Biden Defends Platner, Antonio Reynoso, CAIR Attorney · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Well, happy Friday, everybody, and welcome to Breaking Points.
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: We have some breaking news for the Breaking Points this morning.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: That was just a terrible pun, but I think the
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: pun is very much intended.
• 0:40
  Speaker 5: Ryan.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: What do we got going on today?
• 0:42
  Speaker 6: So later in the program, we're going to be joined
• 0:45
  Speaker 6: by an attorney for care Amy du Corey, who's representing
• 0:51
  Speaker 6: some of the eight protesters in Michigan who have now
• 0:56
  Speaker 6: been hit with federal indictments. This is after the ann
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: Arbor prosecutor there to decline to prosecute. Then Michigan ag
• 1:04
  Speaker 6: Dana Nessill tried to take it over but failed. Now
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: the FEDS are getting involved, going after these campus campus
• 1:10
  Speaker 6: protest as. We'll talk to her later. Halfway through the show,
• 1:13
  Speaker 6: we'll have Antonio Renoso, who is the Brooklyn bro president
• 1:17
  Speaker 6: and is running to replace Nidia of Alaskez. He's running
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: against Claire Valdez, who has this support of ZORONMM Donnie,
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: so we're going to get his argument for why he
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: thinks Donnie should have actually gone with him. We'll also
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: talk about Hunter Biden and Gavin Newsom, which is going
• 1:36
  Speaker 6: to be fun, but we'll start with my drop site
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: news colleague Jeremy Skahele, who's been tracking the kind of
• 1:44
  Speaker 6: on again off again announced thirty ninth announcement. I think
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: we're at of a deal. However, it is, even though
• 1:51
  Speaker 6: this is the thirty ninth or whatever it is, there
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: is actual reason to be at least somewhat optimistic that
• 1:58
  Speaker 6: this one might actually really stick. We'll get into some
• 2:02
  Speaker 6: of the back and forth there, but Jeremy, thanks for
• 2:05
  Speaker 6: taking some time to do this. Am I right is
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: at thirty nine. I think it might be a little
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: bit less than that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 7: Thirty eight maybe, Yeah, I mean it's definitely at least
• 2:13
  Speaker 7: three dozen, so it's it's.
• 2:14
  Speaker 6: Somewhere in that range. So let's let's let's throw up
• 2:18
  Speaker 6: some Donald Trump here, really recent Donald Trump too. We're
• 2:21
  Speaker 6: talking really reason Donald Trump. He's surrounded by I don't
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: know what event he was he's doing here, but here's
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: here's Trump announcing that basically he's got the deal.
• 2:31
  Speaker 8: Of the war, the ren and we're going to be
• 2:35
  Speaker 8: a subject to finalization of documents. We should get done
• 2:40
  Speaker 8: over the next few days, probably have a signing maybe
• 2:43
  Speaker 8: in Europe, and it's a great thing. Soft markets up
• 2:48
  Speaker 8: a thousand points. That means they like the deal. See
• 2:51
  Speaker 8: that means the market goes down. It means they don't
• 2:54
  Speaker 8: like it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 7: But it's been up.
• 2:56
  Speaker 8: Oil shrupped. Oil will start coming down to I think
• 2:59
  Speaker 8: even than it was before. Had I said I was
• 3:03
  Speaker 8: in Iowa it was one hour eighty five cents a gallon. No,
• 3:09
  Speaker 8: I don't know if I'm going to get there, but
• 3:10
  Speaker 8: we're going to get pretty tru It's going to come down.
• 3:12
  Speaker 8: And when oil comes down, everything else comes down. And
• 3:15
  Speaker 8: most importantly, we have a deal that Iran will never
• 3:18
  Speaker 8: have a nuclear weapon, which was the whole purpose of
• 3:21
  Speaker 8: what we had to go through to get this, so
• 3:23
  Speaker 8: it was a big, very big thing. But we have
• 3:28
  Speaker 8: a signing sued and the documents are in pretty final shape,
• 3:35
  Speaker 8: so we'll see. We'll see very good should be done.
• 3:40
  Speaker 8: That should be done pretty quickly. They wanted every bit
• 3:43
  Speaker 8: as much as everybody else wants, and then I think
• 3:46
  Speaker 8: a lot of good relationships can ensue from this. I
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: just spoke with the leaders of many of the countries
• 3:53
  Speaker 8: that were mentioned in the release. I just spoke to
• 3:56
  Speaker 8: bb I spoke to the head of Great Heads of
• 3:59
  Speaker 8: Nation his guitar Yue, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait and others.
• 4:08
  Speaker 8: And I'm gonna be talking to Turkey President na One,
• 4:13
  Speaker 8: who's great and it's really a wonderful thing with a
• 4:17
  Speaker 8: lot of spirit.
• 4:18
  Speaker 7: Pakistan was fantastic.
• 4:20
  Speaker 8: The Prime Minister, the I call him the General, he's
• 4:26
  Speaker 8: a general. He's a great, great general. He's so great
• 4:29
  Speaker 8: that they that he's actually a field marshal step above.
• 4:34
  Speaker 7: And they're all very happy.
• 4:35
  Speaker 8: The whole Middle East is sappy, and along beyond the
• 4:37
  Speaker 8: Middle East is straight and we'll open as soon as
• 4:39
  Speaker 8: we have asigned. We've been taking out many ships that
• 4:43
  Speaker 8: nobody knew, even the fake news didn't know it. But
• 4:46
  Speaker 8: over the last month, we've been taking our ships, big ships,
• 4:52
  Speaker 8: quietly at night. You guys didn't know the pretty cool
• 4:55
  Speaker 8: right as a captain, he knows about more more about
• 4:58
  Speaker 8: ships than I do.
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: But it's pretty.
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: Is that we're talking to yea, So it was all right.
• 5:10
  Speaker 6: So that's that's Trump. Subsequent to that, you have Iranian
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: state media release what they claimed were some details of
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: the term sheet kicking back and forth. And subsequent to
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: that you have this morning, you have Donald Trump going
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: on truth social here he writes he's freaking out.
• 5:31
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: The terms that Iran leaked out to the fake news
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: have nothing to do with the terms that were agreed
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: to in writing. What they said, including their weakened, pathetic
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: statement on having a deal, bears no relation to the truth.
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: Very dishonorable people to deal with with them. There's no
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: such thing as dealing in good faith. Amazing. Also, their
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: totally rebuffed drone attack last night against Indian ships, leaving
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: the horror moves straight is totally unacceptable. They better get
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: their act together and fast, President Donald J.
• 6:03
  Speaker 7: Trump.
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: Okay, Jeremy, what do we make of Trump's statement that
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: we're looking at a signing ceremony very soon. What do
• 6:13
  Speaker 6: you read from the release from the Iranian state media
• 6:16
  Speaker 6: and then Trump's tantrum here.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: And Jeremy let me also just toss to you with
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: that was posted at nine am. Ryan always, I think
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: shark boy observes the market timing with sol the trub statements,
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: So I'll toss you with that too.
• 6:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, I think also it's important to remember
• 6:36
  Speaker 7: that last night Trump was also praising Iranian leaders. He's saying, oh,
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: we really did change the regime, and these guys are
• 6:42
  Speaker 7: really smart, and they're really you know, good to deal with,
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: and we're going to have a deal. And then the
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: next day he's saying, you know, you just read it.
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: He's saying, you know, these are the worst people in
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: the world, and there's no dealing with them. And I think,
• 6:55
  Speaker 7: just at the top level, before I get into some
• 6:57
  Speaker 7: of the background leading up to all this and try
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: to give some context, I've heard twice in the past year,
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: you know, Iran thought they were in negotiations with the
• 7:07
  Speaker 7: United States and then the US and Israel launched wars.
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: One happened a year ago this month, the Twelve Day War,
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: in June, and then the other began on February twenty eighth,
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: and then there have been more than three dozen times
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: since the two week initial ceasefire was signed on April seventh,
• 7:23
  Speaker 7: that Trump has claimed that a deal is imminent, you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 7: and they often leak stories to Barack revit at Oxios
• 7:29
  Speaker 7: and a couple of other journalists that are sort of
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: conveyor belts, you know, for the kind of official leaks
• 7:35
  Speaker 7: coming out of the administration. And you know, as many
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: observers have pointed out, and you just mentioned Emily, you know,
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: there's often these things are timed to the markets, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 7: there clearly is a lot of insider trading going on,
• 7:46
  Speaker 7: and so that's those are real factors. And it's also
• 7:49
  Speaker 7: must be said that it's possible that that there isn't
• 7:52
  Speaker 7: going to be any deal and that we're going to
• 7:54
  Speaker 7: see a resumption of either full scale war or what
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: we've been seeing over the past week or so, which
• 7:59
  Speaker 7: is you know, the United States or Israel doing strikes
• 8:02
  Speaker 7: Iran retaliating. Perhaps the Israelis hit a root again which
• 8:06
  Speaker 7: the Iranians have defined as a red line, and then
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: Iran in turns strikes Israel. So that it's entirely possible
• 8:11
  Speaker 7: that this entire thing just completely falls apart, and we
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: go back to that position. But you know, to say
• 8:18
  Speaker 7: one other thing too. Iranian sources told me a couple
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: of weeks ago that they the Iranian side added senior
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: psychologists to their negotiating team to review the communications that
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: they were going to be sending to the mediators to
• 8:37
  Speaker 7: give to Trump. And they did that because the Iranians
• 8:39
  Speaker 7: believe that Trump is legitimately mentally ill and is operating
• 8:44
  Speaker 7: in an impaired mental state. And they didn't say this
• 8:46
  Speaker 7: as a joke, they didn't say this with any lightness.
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: They said, we recognize that we are dealing with a
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: mentally incapacitated individual, and we've had senior psychologists work up
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: a psychological profile of what they think is going on
• 9:02
  Speaker 7: with Trump's brain. And so we started to cater our
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: messages by running them past senior psychologists before delivering them
• 9:10
  Speaker 7: to Trump. And they said that we started to then
• 9:12
  Speaker 7: see some progress in They almost talked about it like
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: a clinical sense, like they're dealing with a patient. See
• 9:17
  Speaker 7: some progress in the negotiations. And I've also heard from
• 9:20
  Speaker 7: sources that mediators, you know, right, now you have Kutar
• 9:23
  Speaker 7: involved in a very deep way, you have Pakistan remaining involved,
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: you have Turkey, Saudi Arabia. That some of the mediating
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: countries are also starting to become deeply concerned that Trump
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: is totally erratic and that when they have conversations with him,
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: that Trump is saying, yes, I'm agreeing to these things,
• 9:46
  Speaker 7: they then double check, you know, so we can take
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: this now back to the Iranians. Yes, you can, and
• 9:50
  Speaker 7: then they do it, and the Iranians, you know, there's
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: an exchange of ideas, and then things like this happen
• 9:56
  Speaker 7: where Trump says, oh, no, no, no, that's nothing, you know
• 9:59
  Speaker 7: what I agreed to, And in the best faith way
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: of looking at this, I think part of what has
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: happened is that I was told on May twenty second
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: by Iranian negotiators that they had the basic contours of
• 10:14
  Speaker 7: a memorandum of understanding worked out. And I think one
• 10:17
  Speaker 7: of the big concessions, if you will, that the Iranians
• 10:20
  Speaker 7: were making is a willingness to put forward the most
• 10:22
  Speaker 7: robust language that they could tolerate that explicitly addressed iran
• 10:29
  Speaker 7: not pursuing a nuclear weapon, and Trump was talking about
• 10:31
  Speaker 7: that yesterday he was saying, no, the Iranians are agreeing
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: they won't build a nuclear weapon, they won't import a
• 10:36
  Speaker 7: nuclear weapon, they won't purchase a nuclear weapon, and Iran,
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: from their perspective, this was their long standing position, so
• 10:42
  Speaker 7: it wasn't that big of an ass but Trump needed
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: to craft a victory narrative. The Iranians realized that. So
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: my understanding was that the Iranians tried to go as
• 10:48
  Speaker 7: far as they could in allowing that to be in
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: the opening stages of this this memorandum of understanding, but
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: they weren't going to start negotiating a technical thing about
• 10:58
  Speaker 7: downgrading uranium or exports of uranium or anything like that
• 11:01
  Speaker 7: until there were technical negotiations. So in that sense, I think,
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: you know, Trump would have been able to say, oh,
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: I got them to do this, even though anyone who
• 11:09
  Speaker 7: really follows this stuff knows that's not a big concession.
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: That was Iran's position before this. The issue of the
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: Strait of Hormuz opening, well, the Strait of Horrm moves
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: was opened before this, So you know Trump's thing is
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: is victory narrative is based on we got them to
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: agree to do things that they already were doing, you know,
• 11:23
  Speaker 7: before we started this war. And I think that, you know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: part of what's happened is that there's a secret track
• 11:29
  Speaker 7: here and this may be again my best faith read
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: of what Trump is doing. There's a secret track here
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: or a separate track which is which is that the
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: Iranians and the Americans are kind of talking about what
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: is the starting point for nuclear negotiations that will come
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: after a memorandum of understanding. And I do think the Iranians,
• 11:48
  Speaker 7: indirectly through the mediators, have talked about some ideas of
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: what they'd be willing to do in terms of suspending
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: enrichment above three point six percent, possible discussions on even
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: removing some of the highly enriched uranium to a third country.
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: They're not committing to these things, but my understanding is
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: that the Iranians, because of the way this process has
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: played out, have put some skin in the game on
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: that and have said, okay, we'll talk about but they're
• 12:13
  Speaker 7: saying that's not going to go in this memorandum understanding
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: because we have to have technical negotiations. What held this
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: whole thing up the past few weeks, I'm told, is multifold.
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: One is that Trump kept trying to find a way
• 12:27
  Speaker 7: not to unfreeze Iranian assets. The Iranians have been demanding
• 12:30
  Speaker 7: a minimum of twenty four billion dollars in their assets
• 12:33
  Speaker 7: to be unfrozen and repatriated to Iran at the front
• 12:36
  Speaker 7: end of a deal. This isn't about sanctions, really, this
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: is just about the unfreezing of their money. Trump has
• 12:41
  Speaker 7: made a point over and over of talking about how
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: Barack Hussein Obama gave the Iranians billions of dollars. He
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: does not want to be perceived as giving the Iranians
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: billions of dollars, even though it's their own money. Iran
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: has said quite clearly to me and publicly, there will
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: be no memorandum of understanding without freezing of money. So
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: miners standings. They were trying to threat a needle. Trump
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: was meeting with Katari officials and others. They may do
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: some of it, you know, Muhammad Ali Shabani from Homwaje
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: Media told us the other day, you know that there
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: may be some configuration where it's framed kind of as
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: a loan. They're trying to find some way for Trump
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: to be able to say we're we're not giving them
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: any money. So that was one kind of sticking point,
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: but there apparently was some sort of a breakthrough on that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: The other part of it was Lebanon. Benjamin Netnyahoo when
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: it seemed when he knew in late May, mid to
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: late May that a deal was kind of moving forward,
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: he ratcheted up the operations in Lebanon. He pushed Israeli
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: forces north of the Latani River. He wanted to get
• 13:35
  Speaker 7: as deep into Lebanon and do as much bombing in
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: Lebanon as he could prior to any deal being signed,
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: because the Iranians at a red line is there has
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: to be a cessation of hostilities that applies to Lebanon
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: as well. So that's why you had this thing where
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: there was the reports of Trump yelling at net Yahoo
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: and saying, you know, like I'm keeping you out of
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: jail and all of that stuff, and probably some of
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: it is true and some of it isn't, but the
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: core is there's no fracture in that relationship. It's all
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: just strategic posturing. So the Iranians then respond to that
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: by saying, if the Israeli hit Bay Route, we're going
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: to you know, hit Israel. And that's what happened. So
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: then Trump had to kind of, you know, figure some
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: of that out. And there was a strategic game there
• 14:07
  Speaker 7: because I think it gave the perception if Trump got
• 14:10
  Speaker 7: them to stop attacking Bay Route, they had essentially moved
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: the line of negotiation forward to a point where they say, well, look,
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: they're not going to attack Bay Route as opposed to
• 14:18
  Speaker 7: it being they need to withdraw all of their forces
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: from southern Lebanon. So all these things were playing out,
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: and then you had this exchange of fire that happened
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: between the US and Iran after a helicopter was downed,
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: a US helicopter that was in Iranian airspace and was
• 14:34
  Speaker 7: participating in this kind of covert operation that Trump then
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: made public by saying, oh, we've been smuggling all of
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: this oil out. It's interesting how that helicopter went down.
• 14:43
  Speaker 7: I think that bears a lot of investigation what actually
• 14:46
  Speaker 7: happened there, et cetera. But all of this happened. Katari mediators, though,
• 14:49
  Speaker 7: were in Tehran when the bombing was happening, when the
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: US was bombing Iran, and they worked late into the night,
• 14:55
  Speaker 7: you know, Wednesday to Thursday, and then we started to
• 14:57
  Speaker 7: hear that there was some sort of a breakthrough. Trump
• 14:59
  Speaker 7: said the deal was done. Basically he had talked to
• 15:02
  Speaker 7: all these countries and Israel. Israel says, no, we didn't
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: sign off on anything. Other countries are saying, wait a minute,
• 15:07
  Speaker 7: this is not exactly what we heard. Iran then says, well, no,
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: there isn't a final text. The Supreme Leader of Iran, MUSHABAHAMENI,
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: has to actually sign off on this. It has to
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: go through our Supreme National Security Council. But it did
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: seem as though the Iranians were saying, yes, we're getting
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: we're getting close to this thing. Then, and of you know,
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: a very serious Iranian news organization this morning published an outline,
• 15:32
  Speaker 7: as Ryan mentioned, of what was contained within the deal,
• 15:37
  Speaker 7: and none of it was surprising to people who watch
• 15:39
  Speaker 7: breaking points or redrops. We've been talking about all of these,
• 15:42
  Speaker 7: you know, all of these terms. And it did include
• 15:44
  Speaker 7: in it what I met, what I mentioned earlier, this
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: thing about Iran making a positive affirmation about pursuit of
• 15:50
  Speaker 7: nuclear weapons, and it also included, you know, the reopening
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: of the Strait up Hormuz, setting terms for a sixty
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: sixty day initial negotiating period on the nuclear issue, But
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: it didn't include any of the things that Trump and
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: NETNYA who have said about where they're going to downgrade
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: their uranium, they're not going to make ballistic missiles, they're
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: going to stop supporting their quote unquote proxies in the region.
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: None of that was in this thing. So all of
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: this is a kind of detailed way of making a
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: basic point, which is that the best faith way of
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: reading this if you don't if you don't want to
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: go down the path of like this is market manipulation,
• 16:20
  Speaker 7: or Trump has a mental serious mental condition going on,
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: or that he and NETNYA who are cooking up another
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: surprise attack, if you want to look at it in
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: the best faith way. Probably part of what's happened is
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: that because they're indirect negotiations, Trump is conflating some of
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: the second track discussions that have happened with what's going
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: to actually be in the MoU, and Iran is not
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: going to allow those things to be in an MoU.
• 16:41
  Speaker 7: They've made that really really clear. So I guess it's
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: a way of saying war could resume, we could have
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: low intensity war resume, we could have another breakthrough. Maybe
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: the Iranians go back to their senior psychologists and they
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: figure out a way to send Trump a new message
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: or direct message him on truth, social or something where
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: they feel like they can.
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: Calm him down.
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: But regardless of what anyone's politics are, I think it
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: should be clear to all Americans watching this, just looking
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: at what Trump said last night versus today, at a minimum,
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: we're dealing with someone who is highly erratic and doesn't
• 17:18
  Speaker 7: seem to actually know the TikTok of what's actually going on.
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: It's remarkable. Maybe it's an act. Maybe he just wants
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: to appear like he's nuts because he thinks it's a
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: better negotiating tactic. That's possible. But I've heard that from
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: mediators and the Iranians that it's crazy town in terms
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: of the communications. And I would imagine even American negotiators
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: are a little bit like, wait a minute, but we
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: had an actual good deal or like a framework that
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: would have addressed all this and gotten you the off ramp,
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: and you keep blowing it up, you and Net and Yahoo.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: Well, Jeremy, I was actually just going to ask about
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: the Iranian perception, because it sounds like what you're hearing
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: is the orions are telling you they genuinely perceive him
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: to be crazy, not that they perceive him to be
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: putting on an act that is depicting him as crazy.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: So either he is Academy award level acting right now,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: or they're perceiving something.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Are you getting it from them that they believe that
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: he's actually like off his rocker?
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's interesting when
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: you speak to Irani officials, they don't they don't talk
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: in some radical, irrational language. I mean, I've seen a
• 18:30
  Speaker 7: kind of progression of how they perceived it. I heard
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: a more diplomatic way of putting it that they you know,
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: I think that they were thinking there was a lot
• 18:37
  Speaker 7: and I think this was true, that there was net
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: Yahu constantly, you know, sitting like the the you know,
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: the the devil on his shoulder, in his ear, telling
• 18:45
  Speaker 7: him what you know, don't you know, do this, don't
• 18:47
  Speaker 7: do that. Not that Israel's in control of the entire thing,
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: but had a you know, outsize influence on some of
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: the decision making, especially when it came close to deals.
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: Then it was, you know, sort of the analysis that
• 18:57
  Speaker 7: I was hearing was that he doesn't he does have
• 19:00
  Speaker 7: the capacity to get this done. Like for a combination
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: of factors that have to do with his he can't
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: find a way to say this was a victory and
• 19:09
  Speaker 7: he is to beholden to certain micro interests on Israel's part,
• 19:13
  Speaker 7: that there's too much influence there. And then it started
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: to become we're having discussions where we literally are told
• 19:19
  Speaker 7: by the mediators that the Americans have agreed to this
• 19:23
  Speaker 7: and it's just like small terms and things. And then
• 19:25
  Speaker 7: the next day Trump is posting, I have no idea
• 19:28
  Speaker 7: what anyone is talking about, so they said. We then,
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: as responsible you know, nation state and negotiators, we started
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: to more robustly enlist psychiatric professionals to help us assess
• 19:40
  Speaker 7: what's going on and lets this seem like too big
• 19:43
  Speaker 7: of a salacious story. The CIA does this all the
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: time when they're dealing with adversaries. You get psychiatrists and
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: psychologists to draw up mental profiles. But the entire world
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: is seeing a mental health breakdown happen in front of
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: the cameras of the world. I'm the part of the
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: most powerful man in the world, so you know, obviously
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: Iran should be fact checked. Obviously all nation states lie,
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: they engage in propaganda, they say things that aren't true,
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: they want to spin things to their advantage. But on
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: a core level, the sense that I get is that
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: the mediators in Iran on one side, recognize that they're
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: dealing within, to say the least, an incredibly erratic individual
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: who also has a huge special interests that are at
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: play here, insider trading stuff, Israel stuff. Then there's the
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: midterm elections coming up. You know, there's all these things
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: falling in the air, and the umbrella above it all
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: is Anyone with eyes to see, ears to hear, and
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: a brain in their head can understand he didn't win
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: this war. It's unbelievable what happened. Iran had its supreme
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: leader kill, much of its political and military echelon, wiped out,
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: bombed relentlessly by two nuclear powers for weeks on end,
• 20:53
  Speaker 7: well fought the US to a standstill.
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: I'll put this up from the ft wh While you're talking,
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: our colleague Mas pulled out the quote. For forty days,
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: US and Israeli aircraft pounded the mountains around Jazad, trying
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: to silence one of Iran's most important military projects, a
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: buried missile complex carved deep into the granite above the
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: ancient desert city. Yet according to residents, the missiles kept
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: firing regardless. US and Israeli forces kept bombing those mountains
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: at one resident, and Iran kept launching missiles until the
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: final moments before the ceasefire. This is a new report
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: in the Financial Times talking about the way that their
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: missile factories buried deep under concrete in the mountains were
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: apparently impregnable and continued firings. But he's got to just
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: the back of the point that you were making.
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean Trump also, he slipped it in last night,
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: and I thought it was really interesting. He was asked
• 21:44
  Speaker 7: by a reporter sort of about the nuclear issue, and
• 21:47
  Speaker 7: he was saying, Oh, it's buried so deep underneath the
• 21:50
  Speaker 7: mountains that it's like they can't even touch it. That
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: if you have been following what's been going on in
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: the negotiations, that's quite interesting. Several weeks ago, Emily, I
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: think you and I even talked about this at one
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: point several weeks ago, the Iranians were saying that part
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: of what they were putting forward on that second secret track,
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: I talked about the one that's not going to appear
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: in the MoU but is dealing with the big issue
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: of nuclear There had been discussion about Iran agreeing not
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: to clear the rubble of these sites that the US
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: had started bombing last June, where the highly enriched uranium
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: stockpile is believed to largely be held, and the point
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: there would have been that they kind of pause it,
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: that they ensure the Iranians aren't going to be able
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: to access their sixty percent plus enriched uranium, which is
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: what the US is concerned about being bomb grade or
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: being able to be converted into a nuclear weapon. And
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: Trump slipped that in last night, which indicates to me
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: that there is a quite advanced discussion going on on
• 22:45
  Speaker 7: that issue of the nuclear stuff, and it's the thing
• 22:48
  Speaker 7: that Trump is most relying on to spin his victory narrative.
• 22:51
  Speaker 7: So I think part of his fury here is the
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: idea that they're going to get some statement from Iran
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: saying we're not going to do this, but he's not
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: going to be able to come to the America publicans
• 23:00
  Speaker 7: say we're the Marines are going to land and take
• 23:02
  Speaker 7: this highly enriched uranium, or we're going to have it
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: transferred to you know, Pakistan. Or you know, another American ally,
• 23:09
  Speaker 7: or even Russia for that matter. So I do think
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: that there was a there's a really advanced discussion going on.
• 23:15
  Speaker 7: I do think that they are down to a very
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: narrow set of issues, and it does seem like the
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: wild card here is Trump thinks that he's going to
• 23:24
  Speaker 7: at the last second be able to change some terms.
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: The Iranians are saying, back off, We've been talking about
• 23:29
  Speaker 7: this for weeks while you've been in cuckoo land, and
• 23:32
  Speaker 7: you know your negotiators are all aware of the facts
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: and they're not going to do it. So at the
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: end of the day, Trump has to find a way
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: to say I won, and he really to that. This
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: tantrum this morning indicates he's recognizing that he doesn't have that.
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: That's my reading.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: What about the what about the money? What? What do
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: we know about that at this point? In terms of
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: the what's like, what's the Iranian state media claiming? What
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: are you hearing? And I mean the Iranian state media
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: that it would be a possibly phased like a couple
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: billion upfront and then over days and then but it's loan,
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: it's alone, that's forgivable or blah blah, blah.
• 24:09
  Speaker 7: I mean, the Iranian state media isn't getting into the
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: details of that structure that you're referring to. You know,
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: what they're saying is the initial on the table offering
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: is twenty four billion dollars in frozen assets. They don't
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: indicate where it's going to come from. Most analysts, I think,
• 24:25
  Speaker 7: believe that it will eventually go through katar in one
• 24:28
  Speaker 7: way or another, although Amaradi officials, strangely enough, have been
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: increasing their communication with Iran, and the Amoradis actively participated
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: in the bombing, so that's a there's a wildcard there.
• 24:38
  Speaker 7: But the Kataris were the ones historically involved with this issue,
• 24:42
  Speaker 7: and there was supposed to be unfrozen funds in twenty
• 24:45
  Speaker 7: twenty four having to do with an exchange of hostages
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: deal that the US did, and then President Biden blocked
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: the unfreezing of that money that was supposed to be
• 24:54
  Speaker 7: repatriated to Iran. So it's possible that they may try
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: to say this was money that had to do with
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: a different deal or some thing, but half of that
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: roughly or twelve billion dollars. Iranian media is saying what
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: would be returned to Iran at the front end of this,
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: and then there would be a phasing, which is what
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: you're talking about, a phasing of some of the rest
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: of that. And you know, remember Iran is demanding a
• 25:16
  Speaker 7: three hundred billion dollar reconstruction fund, you know, you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 7: to address the damage that's been done. The other thing
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: that Iranians had told me going back many weeks was
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: that they were also willing to suspend any plans that
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: they had for imposing any sort of fees on ships
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: transiting the Strait of Hormuz. You know that there's been
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: a lot of controversy about this issue of are they
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: going to impose tolls? The Iranians have talked about kind
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: of an alternative arrangement or framing of it, where it'd
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: be like escort fees or security fees or environmental fees.
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: But they were saying, you know, we'd be willing to
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: pause all of those plans of the new authority that
• 25:49
  Speaker 7: we established as part of this agreement. And then you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: there's the issue of the Iranian request for a three
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: hundred billion dollar reconstruction fund, and you know, the US
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: has said it doesn't want to have anything to do
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: with something like that, is not going to do it.
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: There's some discussions I understand with golf countries about it,
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: but you know, at the end of the day, the
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: whole name of the game for the Iranians really is
• 26:11
  Speaker 7: comprehensive sanctions relief. And I haven't seen any reporting to
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: indicate that a single sanction with the exception of some
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: involving kind of oil sales and limited in scope stuff
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: at the beginning of this is going to be included.
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: And you know, Iran's economy took a massive hit, not
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: just from these wars, but because of the sanctions and
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: years of this. That's what those protests were about in January,
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: you know, massive protests from the bizarre culture in American terms,
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: this is like working class people, merchants, small business owners.
• 26:39
  Speaker 7: They were the ones, you know, engaged in these large
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: scale protests and around because of the economic conditions. So
• 26:46
  Speaker 7: you know, the Iranian state needs to address its economic
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: situation as a matter of survival, and none of you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: no comprehensive sanctions relief is being offered at the front
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: end of this. So that's a victory in a sense
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: for Trump. But the Iranians are saying no deal on
• 27:01
  Speaker 7: nuclear stuff unless there's comprehensive sanctions relief, which is why
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: the Iranians wanted to separated into two tracks, because you're
• 27:08
  Speaker 7: talking about existential issues.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I was just going to say that people who are
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: in Trump's ear.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: I was toggling through some of the responses in the
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: last twenty four hours from Mark Levin, Mark dubowit's Marktissen.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: I guess these are like the three Marcus. I never
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: thought about that, Markskteers, but they were. We know that
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: they will not tolerate Politically, they will no longer tolerate
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: sanctions relief period like that is just you can't unfreeze
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: the a the assets, you can't lift sanctions.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: And so the people who.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Were so so eager to cheerlead Trump and were really
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: putting the wind at his back. He was citing them
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: over and over again and then slamming his critics who
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: weren't sounding the same notes as Mark Levin, for example,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: they're the ones that will absolutely not tolerate this. And
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: so it's an impossible position that Trump has put himself
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: in between what would end the war and actually accomplish
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: a deal. Jeremy, it sounds like I think this is obvious,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: but it sounds like there absolutely is no wiggle room
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: between what Mark Levin, Mark Tison, Mark Dubowitz will tolerate
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: and what would accomplish an actual deal with the Iranians
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: and other golf countries in the region.
• 28:20
  Speaker 7: I mean, unfortunately, it's a good point that people like
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: that have this kind of influence, and Trump regularly promotes
• 28:26
  Speaker 7: their their views and their posts, so it's you know,
• 28:29
  Speaker 7: it's it's not a non factor. It's a real you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: it's a real thing. I think though that this dynamic
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: you're describing is part of why, going way back to
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: before February twenty eighth and the start of this active war,
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: the Iranians were talking about finding ways to appeal to
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: Trump the businessman and Trump the president who is using
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: the powers of the Oval office in a very clear
• 28:51
  Speaker 7: way to enrich his friends and set up his family.
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: And they understand, you know, Jered Kushner, they understand the
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: Witcoff family, and so I think part of what the
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: Iranians were looking at was what kind of oil and
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: gas or other concessions can we put on the table
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: to make this appealing to that part of Trump. So,
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: you know, I could see a scenario I could see
• 29:12
  Speaker 7: a scenario where no deal whatsoever happens, that there's some
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: short term thing as I was talking about the beginning,
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: and then it's you know, returned to kind of weeks,
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: if not months of this standoff that we've been watching.
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: But if there is some kind of a deal that
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: involves sanctions relief, I could see Trump, you know, going
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: forward with it. If he felt that he was cashing
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: in on it, or that his family members or that
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: his crony network was cashing in on it, I could
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: see that. But you're going to have to lift sanctions.
• 29:40
  Speaker 7: And as you mentioned, you have this more neo con
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: wing of the Trump orbit who have been obsessed you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: for their entire professional lives with Iran as like the
• 29:50
  Speaker 7: purveyor of terrorism all over the world, and they have
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: a lot of influence over Trump. So Trump has to
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: figure out how to spin it for them. He has
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: to figure out a way to declare victory. He also
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: has to figure out a way to actually definitively end
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: this what I'll say parenthetically at the end to it's
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: it's interesting. I was talking to Hassan Amadi in today,
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: who's a really well known Iran analyst and scholar and
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: you know, is very very well known in the Islamic world,
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: and I was asking him about the Lebanon situation, because, yes,
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Iran showed that it was willing to go to the
• 30:23
  Speaker 7: Map and bomb Israel unilaterally outside of the context of
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: the US Israeli war on Iran because of the attack
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: on Beirut. But it could come to a moment where
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: Iran has to use the leverage that it has to
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: try to get as many concessions that are at its
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: core interests, which have to do with its economic situation,
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: its viability going forward, you know, as a regional power,
• 30:44
  Speaker 7: et cetera. And would it be the case then that
• 30:47
  Speaker 7: Yahu's able to kind of resume the war in Lebanon
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: and that Iran wouldn't really be able to resume this
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: because they're in the middle of very serious negotiations where
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: they're using their leverage to get things that they very
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: much want and prioritize. And what Hassanamadi and said was
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: what the next phase of this is that the Israelis
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: and the Americans are trying to decouple Habelah and Lebanon
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: from Iran. And that's why there's this whole track going
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: on with President Joseph Aun, the President of Lebanon, and
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: the Israelis and the Americans, and they want to essentially
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: create an American Lebanon government Israeli front against Hesbola. That's
• 31:22
  Speaker 7: what they're trying to do. Iran, of course, is a
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: longtime ally of Hesbelah and views itself as in this
• 31:29
  Speaker 7: war with Hesbelah together. So what Amanian was saying is
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: that the Americans are trying to decouple Iran from Lebanon
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: and Husbola. Is what Hesbela and Iran are going to
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: do is try to decouple America from Israel. And that
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: he was basically saying there is going to be another war,
• 31:46
  Speaker 7: and that that war is going to be Iran and
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: Hesbelah against Israel. And the question is can they drive
• 31:51
  Speaker 7: that wedge between Israel and the United States. And I
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: raised with him the example of the ceasefire deal that
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: Trump signed with sorrow Law in Yemen, you know, often
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: referred to as the huthis there is still a ceaspire
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: on the books between the United States of America that
• 32:08
  Speaker 7: was signed by Donald Trump and a sorrow Allah in
• 32:11
  Speaker 7: Yemen that is just about the United States and Ansar
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: a lah and Israel is not a party to it,
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: so there is a precedent for that. But this isn't
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: something that's going to happen in two weeks or two months.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: But going forward, we haven't heard the last of a
• 32:25
  Speaker 7: war between Iran and Israel because at the end of
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: the day, Israel didn't really get everything that it wanted.
• 32:32
  Speaker 7: And then the next phase for Israel is going to
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: be ratchet up the covert operations that they're doing inside
• 32:37
  Speaker 7: of Iran, even if the bombs stopped falling. So we
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: may see something happen, you know, in the coming days.
• 32:43
  Speaker 7: We may not. What we might see happen would be
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: massive bombing again, or tit for tat stuff again, or
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: we could see some deal that falls apart after some weeks,
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: some initial thing, the Strait of hormuzes open, a bunch
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: of people make money on market stuff, and then it
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: crumbles apart. You know, these are huge issues JCPOA twenty
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: fifteen deal took years to negotiate, involving hundreds of experts
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: from different sectors, and thus far we've had golf buddy
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: and son in law and then it you know, more recently,
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: you know, Jdvans and Marco Rubio. But you know, they
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: haven't brought the A team in terms of you know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: area expertise to the table, and in order to make
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: a real deal with Iron, they're gonna have to do that.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: And last thing from me, but it does seem like
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: there's a risk to pick up what you were saying
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: for Iran that they may have just gone through this
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: year of war, siege, control of the straight over moves,
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: you know, fended off the US, left a lot of
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: the US bases and ashes, and yet find themselves on
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: the other side of it back where they were, which
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: is hoping to negotiate, you know, a nuclear agreement for
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: sanctions relief, like that's where they were a year ago,
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: two years ago, three years ago. Like it feels like
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: ground all day in that sense.
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: Yes, there's definitely truth to that, but I say there's
• 34:00
  Speaker 7: two other factors that you should include in that analysis.
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: One is Iran's ability to have not just survived this intact,
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: but to have really fought two nuclear powers off sent
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: a message to the world. The world sees Iran very
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: very differently right now. Iran's neighbors see it very differently
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: right now. The stakes of attacking Iran again, particularly for
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: Gulf countries that have any connection to the United States
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: or Israel, it's they do not want this to keep going.
• 34:28
  Speaker 7: This has been catastrophic for their economic and political situation.
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: So that's one to mention what's really true about what
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: you're saying, though, and I think in some ways this
• 34:38
  Speaker 7: is the biggest challenge facing the Iranian government going forward.
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: The war has unified many sectors of Iranian society. I'm
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: not saying there aren't militant opponents of Iran, both outside
• 34:50
  Speaker 7: and inside, but even prominent critics of the Iranian government,
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: the Islamic Republic government, have come out quite ferociously against
• 34:59
  Speaker 7: this war. And you have massive demonstrations in Iran, including
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: people saying to Iranian state media that they were opponents
• 35:06
  Speaker 7: of the government, that they were protesting against the government,
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: that they're openly saying this even on Iranian state media,
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: you know, and we're against what the you know, what
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: the US and Israel are doing. When the bomb stopped
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: falling and it becomes this drawn out negotiation process and
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: you're not getting comprehensive sanctions relief and the economy is
• 35:24
  Speaker 7: still screaming as Scott Besson put it, the intention of
• 35:27
  Speaker 7: it is to try to strangle the people into a
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: kind of uprising. Then you you you're a new day
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: sense sounds right, and I think that that's you know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: Mohammed Bagaragalibov, the lead negotiator for Iran and the speaker
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: of the Iranian Parliament, talks about how, you know, Iran
• 35:45
  Speaker 7: knows best this language, you know, the language of fighting
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: against you know, the US and Israel in this capacity,
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: and he meant it in a different way, but it
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: was revelatory in a sense, because if they no longer
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: have that active war to rally against, then you have
• 35:59
  Speaker 7: to fall Like what do people now think in this
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: country or feel in this country? Now that the dust
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: has settled and there's huge capital by the United States
• 36:07
  Speaker 7: and Israel being poured in to trying to foment internal unrest.
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: So there is a way in which, and I've said
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: this before, I think Israel is not so nervous about
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: the bomb stopped falling, because they'll move into another phase
• 36:20
  Speaker 7: of this. What Iranians would tell you is, yes, that's
• 36:23
  Speaker 7: a concern, we understand that. But this war above all
• 36:27
  Speaker 7: showed that our institutions are resilient, and that the state
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: is resilient, and that these types of actions, even at
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: their height, were unable to bring it down or destroy it,
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: even though they killed our supreme leader, the heads of
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: the IRGC and political echelon. So we'll see, we'll talk
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: in a couple of years and see what happens with this.
• 36:44
  Speaker 7: But it's it remains a dangerous situation, I would say,
• 36:47
  Speaker 7: a very dangerous situation.
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: All right, Well, Jeremy Scahill, drop site news, see you
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: back here in a couple of years. We'll see u
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: a couple of minutes.
• 36:57
  Speaker 7: I meant, just on that issue. I mean, this is
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: the second time I've in on your casual Fridays and
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: it's good time to be hanging out here.
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: There you goes all right, Well, well, thanks so much,
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: have a good weekend.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Hunter Biden made an appearance on Gavin.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: Newsom's podcast, so we obviously had to bring you some
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: of these clips.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Let me start with the first one.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: Of course, they touched on Graham Platner, because why wouldn't
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: they They're just the boys are just riffing here.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: But let's go with this one raised a lot of eyebrows.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: This is from TMZ.
• 37:36
  Speaker 7: I'm joined today by presidential candidate Hunter Biden.
• 37:40
  Speaker 9: Eight. Come on, you got more buzz out there than
• 37:45
  Speaker 9: you got president of the United States.
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: He's so jealous your candidacy for president.
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: Give you a break for just one day at least.
• 37:57
  Speaker 7: Here's the deal.
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: Here's the deal.
• 37:59
  Speaker 9: I'll on, but only as your as your VP, because
• 38:03
  Speaker 9: the truth of the matter is that the vice president's
• 38:05
  Speaker 9: residence is a lot cooler, it's a lot easier job too.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: I think your point was accurate. It sounded a little
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: bit like Gavin Newsom. He immediately jumped to you're running
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: for president because you're getting so much attention.
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: He was so he looked salty. He is to him
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: at zero sum, he's so angry. But uh, let's let's
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: give Gavin what he needs, which is a little bit
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: of attention.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, let's do it. So they did touch on Graham Platner.
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: Him in the context of of all this that you're describing.
• 38:41
  Speaker 9: He was a combat veteran and and he came back,
• 38:46
  Speaker 9: you know, he had some real issues and with PTSD
• 38:52
  Speaker 9: and and that trauma and whatever way that he was
• 38:58
  Speaker 9: working it out. I he I think has been really
• 39:01
  Speaker 9: really open about is that he wasn't a good person.
• 39:04
  Speaker 9: And here's what I know.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: Is that.
• 39:10
  Speaker 7: It takes a lot of.
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: Stammina at least I'm not gonna say I think courage too.
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: I'll give myself that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 9: To to get back up and and and build a
• 39:25
  Speaker 9: better life.
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: And I don't uh, I'm.
• 39:30
  Speaker 9: I'm ninety nine point nine percent certain is that Graham
• 39:33
  Speaker 9: Platter is no Nazi, you know, And and I don't
• 39:37
  Speaker 9: think that he's a racist in any way.
• 39:39
  Speaker 7: I hear the way that he talks. I think that.
• 39:44
  Speaker 9: His relationship with his wife is his relationship with his wife.
• 39:51
  Speaker 9: The entirety of that controversy is you know, it's all
• 39:54
  Speaker 9: about you know, leaked, consensual you know stuff, I mean stupid.
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: Maybe you would have.
• 40:02
  Speaker 9: A problem, Uh not you, I mean anyone would problem.
• 40:07
  Speaker 9: Like I always say to people, like show me your phone,
• 40:12
  Speaker 9: give me access to your eye cloud, let me let's
• 40:16
  Speaker 9: let's let's let's go through it and pull everything that
• 40:20
  Speaker 9: we can that is inappropriate.
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: That is off color.
• 40:26
  Speaker 9: That is, you know, uh that selfie that you took
• 40:30
  Speaker 9: when you're drunk off your ass and you know you
• 40:32
  Speaker 9: send it to your blah blah blah, Like show me
• 40:35
  Speaker 9: your phone and if that's the standard by which we
• 40:39
  Speaker 9: are going to judge people, particularly people in elected office.
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: Then I don't think we're gonna have many people in
• 40:44
  Speaker 9: elected office. And so as a relates to Grant Platter,
• 40:49
  Speaker 9: I focus on this is that I have not heard
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: anything in any way that would say to me that
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: that that he is a abusive, misogynistic, or anti Semitic
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: or racist person. And I have heard this from grand
• 41:15
  Speaker 9: Platner though, that he thinks we should all have free
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: health care. I have heard this from grand Platner also
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: that he thinks that we have to radically change our politics.
• 41:24
  Speaker 9: I have heard this from grand Platner that working people
• 41:27
  Speaker 9: are getting fucking screwed. I have heard this from grand
• 41:30
  Speaker 9: Platner that we aren't all. That they have us at
• 41:34
  Speaker 9: each other's throats and we should be at their throats.
• 41:36
  Speaker 9: I have heard this from grand Platner that he thinks
• 41:39
  Speaker 9: the oligarchs and the tech tech are tech overlords and
• 41:43
  Speaker 9: billionaires are are are really really really making it the
• 41:49
  Speaker 9: playing field unfair for working class people. That's what I've
• 41:54
  Speaker 9: heard from grand Platner and so and so. I hope
• 41:59
  Speaker 9: I'm right about that, because you know, I look at
• 42:02
  Speaker 9: somebody and I know you probably have a personal relationship
• 42:06
  Speaker 9: with him, But you know, I watched as as Zoraha
• 42:12
  Speaker 9: Mundani kind of came up and I thought, holy shit,
• 42:17
  Speaker 9: like I like what I'm hearing.
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: You know, and and and then when.
• 42:21
  Speaker 9: He got elected, I thought, I hope, I hope he
• 42:24
  Speaker 9: can deliver.
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: So you have Davin in the background like chuckling like
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: a psychopath the entire time, so weird.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: He liked what he was hearing, though, Yeah, I.
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: Who knows what's going through that that wirdo's mind. Yeah,
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: I mean, Hunters making a lot of sense, right, I mean,
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: nobody knows better than him. You know what it's like
• 42:50
  Speaker 6: to have your entire yicloud leaked. He elaborated on it
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: on Twitter this morning to everyone so eager to cancel
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: someone for a tatoo they got at age twenty two,
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: a drunk text, a selfie they took in the middle
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: of a mental health crisis. Show us your laptop, show
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: us your eye cloud, open your entire digital life to
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: your worst enemy, no context, no filter, no explanation.
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: You won't.
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: And good He's he's really got the Twitter forum down now,
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: like the long form, and he talks about you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: perseverance and not being judged by the you know, the worst.
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: He's you know, he writes, my mom and baby sister
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: were killed in a car accident when I was just
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: a kid. Cancer took my brother Bo, my best friend
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: in my rock. I battled alcoholism, addiction. I chose the
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: coward's way out more times than I can count. And
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: then he's he talks about his own story of redemption.
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: His is as dramatic, you know, of highs and lows,
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: well lows as you can kind of get. But everybody
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: has some something there. You know that he's you know,
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: Platter's getting hit again. Another New York post has another
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: ex girlfriend who's saying that he did actually know what
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: the tattoo was. I tend to think that the tattoo
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: is baked in that voters. Yeah, at this point in
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: may Or, like, I think of the average, Tell me
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: what you think. I think the average And this is
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: probably where I am too, that the average voter in
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: Maine is like, I don't think he knew what it
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: was when he got it. I don't think he's a Nazi.
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: Like there's no evidence he's actually a Nazi, so he
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: didn't know what it was when he got it. I
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: don't think he's a Nazi, but I do think that
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: at some point, probably after this wedding in twenty fifteen
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: where he's taking his shirt off, but I do think
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: at some point he probably realized what it was. Yeah,
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: and then he didn't get it taken, but he didn't
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: get it covered up until the election campaign, and he's
• 44:54
  Speaker 6: fudging when he learned what it was. I think that
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: is what people assume think people are have just kind
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: of incorporated into into who I think he is, because
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: I think like, well, he's lying and that goes to
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: his character. But I think a lot of people are like, yeah, well,
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: of course he's gonna lie about that. Well, it's like
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: does Brett cob and all lying about remembering what happened
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: with Christine Blaiseiford? Probably, but of course he had to
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: Like you're just kind of in that. Well, maybe.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Doesn't.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we could, we could do a full show on that.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: But I was just going to say, I think you're correct.
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: I first of all, I think Republicans leaning too hard
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: into the tattoo. When Plattner is making the election about
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: like kitchen table, nuts and bolts, healthcare, college affordability is
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: a mistake.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: They think this is we.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: Talked about this last week actually that like he is
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: framing the election as something that's explicitly about affordability and
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: not the culture where he's trying.
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: To not talk about the such a great job laying out,
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: Oh the Hunter is.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: Meeting the moment so like poetically it is incredible, Like
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know who is helping him. If anybody's helping him,
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: I could see it just being him because he's extremely
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: I think he's he's like has emotional intelligence, He's a
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: very smart person, and you could see all of that.
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: I wrote a whole piece last week about how he's
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: completely I've watched every single long form interview he has done.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: He is completely whitewashing the truth about his influence pedaling.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: But that's neither here nor there.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: It's clearly tapping into something very real, also very gen z.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: I think it's it's nailing the lack of institutional trust
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: in a way that's I think totally meeting the moment.
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: But that's where Republicans have to recognize that people aren't
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: going to vote on the Nazi tattoo, like most people
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: in Maine are not going to vote on the Nazi.
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: Tackle he learned what it was.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think just looking like you're not telling
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: the truth this populist candidate is always a big problem.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: So but I don't think it's going to end the
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: campaign because I think we've entered a cynical era in
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: American politic somewhere after the recession that Trump crystallized for everyone,
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: which is that nobody is under the illusion that if
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: somebody talks like John Edwards, they're also going to be the.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: Person John Edwards is pretending to be because people got fooled.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: By John Edwards or Bill Clinton or whatever.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: That's where Trump comes in and is just nobody.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: Believes them when he's talking about Stormy Daniels or whomever else,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: Like we've we're in a post character in our politics,
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: and so to keep leaning into that and insisting on
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: it instead of talking about policy is a mistake.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's I think that's right. Yeah, we're
• 47:39
  Speaker 6: and people can just keep looking at that chart of
• 47:41
  Speaker 6: Trump's net worth climbing into like six billion dollars from
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: from much much much less than that, and then it's like, really,
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: we're talking about a tattoo. So I do think they're
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: in a kind of a trap there. Now, clearly he
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: was a dog for a very long time, as and
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: he said he was. Now, I think it was a
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: dog ry longer than he says he wasn't. And in
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: his victory speech he talks about and I think he's
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: starting to allude to this. He talks about redemption being
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: a journey. He says, every day I'm trying to be
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: better than I was the day before, because every time
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: they find something that he did wrong after say twenty
• 48:25
  Speaker 6: twenty one or twenty twenty three, it's like, wait, you
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: said you were redeemed. He's like, well, I'm not perfect.
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: Redemption is a journey, and it's but that's true, of course, yew.
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: They they never found anything with mom Donnie, you know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: so there's a contrast, like they you know, they dug
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: up everything they could possibly find, character wise, right, right,
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: character wise, all they had was his wife's like Spotify
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: or you know she teenaged spotify, teenage spot or like
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: some teenage posts that she made.
• 49:04
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: Joining us now is Antonio Renoso. He's the Brooklyn Borough
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: President also a candidate for New York seventh District, which
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: is you know, most of much of Brooklyn, buying to
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: replace outgoing kind of legendary congress from Wan Nitdi of
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: Alaskaz and up against union organizer Claire Valdez, who has
• 49:24
  Speaker 6: the endorsement of so On Mom Donnie, making it kind
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: of a bringing a lot of a national attention to
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: this race. Antonio, thank you so much for being here.
• 49:34
  Speaker 7: Happy to be here, Ian, happy to be here.
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: So I wanted to start with just so people and
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: get a sense of what you're running on the latest
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: ad that your campaign put out. Let me just get
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: this up here.
• 49:47
  Speaker 10: They owned their estimated me, attacked me, stiff on me,
• 49:51
  Speaker 10: and Antonio Reinoso was by our.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: Side for all these fights because Trump and his crew
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: don't stop.
• 49:57
  Speaker 7: Neither does Antonio led the progressive cock kicked ice off rikers.
• 50:01
  Speaker 7: It's not taking a sense for wealthy special interests. He's
• 50:04
  Speaker 7: the best choice to deliver change like that because he's
• 50:08
  Speaker 7: done it over and over. That's why teachers, nurses, the
• 50:12
  Speaker 7: Working Families Party, we're all on his side because he
• 50:16
  Speaker 7: is on ours.
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: So pretty often you have the Working Families Party, Justice Democrats,
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: even New York City DSA, not always, but pretty often
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: in a coalition together behind the same candidate going up
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: against you know, somebody who's been in office and you know,
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: has the like hardcore support of say the developers, et cetera.
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: And it's and it's a clear contrast this one, as
• 50:43
  Speaker 6: the ad shows a little bit split. You know, you've
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: got New York City DSA, Justice Democrats, Mom Donnie on
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: on Valdez side. You've got the LASKAZ and WFP over
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: on your side. So why why do you think it
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: is that that they made a mistake? Like what what's
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: your case for why you're the more kind of working
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: class progressive candidate here?
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And look, I first want to say that I
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: don't think that's necessarily a split. It's the DSA versus
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: the Working Families Party, the letician James, Native Alaska's Jermali Williams,
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: every the majority of Union's Tenet Association, presidents of every
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: almost every single night. You the local organizations like Make
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: the Road New York nycc at Churches United for Fair Housing.
• 51:28
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: So I just want to be clear that the progressive
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: movement is a large tent, it has a lot of
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: us in it, and that the majority of the progressive
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: movement is with me and there's one faction of the
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: progressive movement, which is the DSA that is not is
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: part of the DSA. The Justice Democrats all intentsive purposes
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: is a five OSC four or i e. Arm of
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: the DSA and the DSA. So so I just want
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: to put that person to perspective. The reason I think
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: that they made a mistake, I would say this that
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: I've been doing the progressive politics, the hard work for decades.
• 52:02
  Speaker 7: Now.
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: You know, I founded an organization called New King's Democrats
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: to fight against the corrupt party politic machine here in Brooklyn,
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: and we beat the party boss. When I ran for
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: office when I was just twenty nine years old as
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: a freshman council member, I was the co chair of
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: the progressive Caucus that achieved many things, and I was
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: able to pass tenant legislation to fight against terrible landlords.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: I was able to pass police reform. Every single time
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: the progressive movement asked me to show up, I didn't
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: just show up. I led from the front. And I
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: think what you're seeing here are a conversation about the
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: rise of Mamdani. And you know what I think is
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: Mamdani won with a broad coalition and moving away from
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: coalition building and thinking that one faction of the progressive
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: movement was what got him elected versus it being just
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: like all of us coming together to make sure that
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: we promote and push progressive politics in New York City.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: This is really interesting.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: I mean Ryan writes a lot about this in his books,
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: especially The Squad, but this is actually you're in the
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: middle of a really interesting, I think dynamic between DSA
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: and broader progressive movement in New York City and the
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: era of Mom Donnie, or in New York are in
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: the era of Mom Donnie. So what are some of
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: the lessons that you think? I mean, you were just
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: talking about needing a broad coalition, but what are some
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: of the lessons you think maybe the DSA world is
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: not learning in this moment right now.
• 53:28
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I would say this.
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: I think that the DSAS as an organization, I guess
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: what we learned at a very young age. I guess
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: in the Progressive movement, the founding of the Working Families
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: Party and how we were going to be successful was
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: that we needed to go into like small factions, find
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: all the people that are struggling that need help, come
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: together and make sure that we're solving for their issues.
• 53:53
  Speaker 7: We learned that very young. There are number one.
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: Question that the WFP used to ask every single left
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: that official before twenty years ago was how good are
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: you at building coalitions? That was a primary, foundational, principal
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: or tenant to being a progressive. You need to build
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: a coalition because we can't do it by ourselves. And
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: I think that what the DSA UH could could look
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: too is just like coalition building is important. Native Velaskaz
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: was the first congress person to endorse Zora Mundani. I
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: was a part of the first group of elected officials
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: that are non DSA to endorse so around Mudanni. I
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: did a video for him. For Brooklyn, I did a
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: citywide Latino Spanish speaking piece for him, just like the
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: WFP was really important to his growth, all these organizations,
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: all every single person you saw on that video for
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: me was with Zora Mundani during the primary Right And
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: I just think that the perspective here is that the
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: coalition is all of us, And all I'm saying is this,
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: I think that we allow for the DSA to eat
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: at our table, but they don't necessarily allow us a
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: out there to right like we if you're not a member,
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: you can't receive support from the DSA in any way,
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: shape or form. In hours, it's like, no, if you're
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: a DSA member and you're a good elected official and
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: you've done great work or you're a great organizer, we
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: would be more than happy to welcome you in the
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: way we did with Julia Salazar that is a state senator,
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: Emily Gallagher, Christin Gonzalez. We supported Tiffany Cabman and Alex Avidas.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: So for us, it's always like big ten, bring everybody in.
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: If you're good, we got your back on their side. Though,
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: if it's not a DSA member, they just don't put
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: out support. So I just think it's like, hey, the
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: coalition is big, it's all of us, and they are
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: a part of that, and I think it's something that
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: could vote well for them long term and continuing to
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: build this movement on the left that they build partnerships.
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: I feel like Israel Palestine has so much to do
• 55:45
  Speaker 6: with what unfolded here, and I'm curious for your take
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: on this. My sense is that the thing that is
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: really that really has given Claire Valdez an opening, and
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: perhaps you know, Drew DSA and Mom Donnie in is
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: And the contrast that she tries to draw publicly consistently
• 56:04
  Speaker 6: is she said I was out there early, calling it
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: a genocide and calling for a ceasefire, and my opponent
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: waited far too long, waited until I was running. So
• 56:13
  Speaker 6: two questions on that, do you think that's the major
• 56:17
  Speaker 6: opening that she has here? And in hindsight, why didn't
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: you go in earlier? And if you had gone in
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: earlier and say this genocide needs to stop to day, like,
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: let's say you did that very early on, what would
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: have happened to you? Like, why not do that? Because
• 56:33
  Speaker 6: I do think if you had done that, we wouldn't
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: even be talking about her.
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: I disagree, right, interesting agree, Yes, the two things here
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: they need to find distinction, of which there's very little
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: on a policy. Our policy platforms are practically aligned. You
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: could go to Julie Wand and turneros play about does
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: this website switch the names and you're going to have
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: a hard time to right like so, but they need
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: a find distinction and we're not talking about this, bring
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: on something. All three of it, all three of us
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: agree that would happen in Gaza is a genocide that
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: we need to re established relationship for re I guess
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: negotiate relationships with allies that are not being held to account.
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: And we shouldn't be sending weapons of war to Israel
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: or to any nation that is committing war crimes or
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: breaking international law. We all agree with that. The thing here,
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: the distinction that they're trying to say is the timing
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: of when it happened. But I could have done that
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: October eighth, and it wouldn't have made a difference because
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: I am not a DSA member. They only support DSA members,
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: and that is deeply important that you know that this
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: is not going to change the game. Then they would
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: have gone, I.
• 57:42
  Speaker 6: Just mean the open like the opening they could endorse,
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: but they might not have had the energy behind it.
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: I don't I don't think like I don't think that.
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: I don't think any of that stuff matters. I think
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: that what they do is that they find the candidate
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: and they look for every little straw that they can
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: find to build distinction.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: You know, we said that we're not taking money from
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: big real estate, so we don't talk to revenue members
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: that are building large developments that are making themselves super rich.
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: But I'll take money from a real estate agent, a broker,
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: and they're saying, oh, Antonio takes, you know, real estate.
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: But they look for any upper They're going to comb
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: through everything they possibly can to find distinction because their
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: only value here is that their.
• 58:23
  Speaker 6: Record doesn't Yeah here's here's your opponent's just hitting you
• 58:26
  Speaker 6: with that, right there.
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly so right. So, so it wouldn't have been
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: It would have not been genocide. It would have been
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: real estate.
• 58:33
  Speaker 7: I visit. It wouldn't have been real estate. They would
• 58:35
  Speaker 7: have said, or Antonio.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: Uh is you know it talks too much about being
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: a native New Yorker or Antonio does They would have
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: tried to find something because they need to build distinction.
• 58:44
  Speaker 7: I have right, I have a record.
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: I've been able to help black maternal health from Brooklyn
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: and making it the safest place for black women to
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: have babies. As a porer president, I always did the
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: police reform that we talked about. We kicked the ice
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: out of Rikers, we did outdoor dining in the City
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: of New York exists because I passed like just to
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: do that work. Every single part of the progressive movement.
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: I've been a part of every union, the majority of
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: unions are with me, right, but they have to find
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: distinction because once you can no longer, once you can
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: no longer build up your candidate, the only action that
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: you can then take is to destroy the person that
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: you're going against. Right, So I feel like my record
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: hasn't been challenged one time in this entire race. None
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: of them can say I wasn't a progressive champion. And
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: I think that what they do is throw these negative
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: things out there just because they're grasping us straws, so
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: try to tear me down.
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: I think it's connected to the kind of collapse in
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: faith that people have in politicians and also institutions. We
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: did a survey in Michigan for the Senate primary there,
• 59:43
  Speaker 6: and one of the questions we asked, I'm sure you've
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: seen questions that you frame them like this. You say,
• 59:48
  Speaker 6: here's a statement. Do you agree or disagree with the statement?
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: And the statement was if a candidate won't stand up
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: to APEC, I don't trust them to fight for me
• 59:57
  Speaker 6: on other issues and even modern it's overwhelmingly we're like,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 6: I agree with that statement. And I feel like there's
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: so much distrust in the system broadly that people are
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 6: now identifying this question as a proxy for as like
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: a stand in for whether or not they're going to
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: fight on other issues, so they might not know your
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: whole record of fighting.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: But nobody, nobody in this camp, but nobody takes a
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: PAC money in this district, right right, this district is
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: we're all progressive, Like that's the you see, like it's
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: it's already out, been here fired right right, Like we're not.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 5: No one in this district takes eight PAC money. Everyone
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: has been clear in their position in Gaza and uh
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: and that that is like a moral center that is
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: absolutely necessary in this district. Like it's just not something
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: that we're going to be negotiating here at all.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: I think I think I was going to say, to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: Ryan's point, I think it means the purity politics because
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: you all share that baseline. It means to distinguish each
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: other from to distinguish yourself from another, the purity politics
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: gets kind of increasing.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: It's ridiculous exactly because now we're talking, you know, the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: three of us, the Juliwan and myself and Claire all
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: agreed to not take super Pac money in the beginning
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: of the campaign, and Claire Valdez was the first one
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: to put up a red box and show super PACs
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: exactly how she would want them to spend money, and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: has received I think she has seven or eight super
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: PACs now that are supporting her. And it's just like this,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 5: and then it comes down to this idea that the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: purity only falls to me because I'm the candidate in
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: d attack, so only I have to fall in line
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: with purity politics and everything needs to be perfect. But
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: on their side, they make excuses every single time. She
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: did a video in Zura Mamdani in a you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry, She did a video in in what is
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: that place called where he lives? In Gracie Manchin, a
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 5: political video in Gracey Mansion. It is just like little
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: things that are happening. If I would have done any
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: of those things, I would have been attacked. But you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: know why, and I'm going to say it again because
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: I passed safety tenant tended safety legislation to protect tenants.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: I did the I did the out third dining. I
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: kicked the ice out of Rikers. I have a record,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: and they can't attack me on my record because my
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: record is one that is launchly progressive and has done
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: real work. So they're going to go after nonsensical things
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: and hold me to account, So what level that they
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: won't hold their own candidate.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 6: AOC hasn't weighed in on this race, and I know
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 6: she's been under a lot of pressure. Yeah, in both directions.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 6: She's close with Nidia of Alaskaz, who's you know, retiring
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 6: and has really wanted you know, is powerfully behind you
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: and has urged her either to not get in or
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 6: to get behind get behind you. Of course, she's very
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 6: close with Mom Donnie as well. Would love to see her.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: Have you spoken with her and what's your sense of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: whether or not she's going to weigh in on this race.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 7: I believe that.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: Alexandro Cossercritiz sees that anybody that wins this district would
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: be good for the progressive movement in New York City,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: and this is just one where folks like her might
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: not be seeing too much daylight and might not want
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: to put resources into into into a district that's like
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: very safe. It's not a it's not a red to
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: blue or purple seat opportunity here. It's like, Okay, this
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: is the most progressive district in this country. We're going
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: to get a you know, a very progressive person in there.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: But also I think that she she respects NDIA of
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: Alaska's and her history. She knows it, and she knows
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: that she was the only Puerto Rican woman elected to office,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: the first Puertorican woman elected to office, that she was
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: fighting against the Democratic machine for twenty years before somebody
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: got elected to assist her and for her not to
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: be alone. But she's done for Puerto Rico and being
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: it's you know, representative, you know, not technically or legally,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: but just being the only one of the few Congress
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: people that stand up for Puerto Rico. I think she
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: understands all that, and it's probably going to stay out
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: of this race.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: It makes sense.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: The last question for me is what are the basic
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: things that you hear from voters in your campaigning, Like,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: what are they telling you they're concerned about.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: It's all affordability right now. Well, mostly affordability and ice
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: are the two major issues. And the thing here is
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: that I've done a lot of work on affordability with
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: housing development and a pro supply candidate, So I've been
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: somebody that thinks that we need to build a lot
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: more housing to be able to get us out of
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: this hole. So it's been resonating. And then Ice, you know,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: I went to on the ICE front. Of course, we
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: already kicked ICE out of rankers when I was a
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: council member, you know, twelve years ago before was essentrist
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: talking points for Democrats. We were already doing that work.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: But on top of that, there was an issue here
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: in Wycoff Hospital. We had ICE coordinate with the NYPD
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: when there was a detainee that was injured and the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: NYPD was supporting them.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 7: I was out there the next day.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: We had a rally with all of our neighbors and
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: make sure that NYPD knew that we weren't going to
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: accept in this sanctuary city any coordination of NYPD and ICE.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: And those are two things that people really are grateful
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: that I was able to stand up for them, able
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: to show up when the community need.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 7: They don't wait, you know, four.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: Or five days the way, uh clear, Valdas waited before
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: she made a statement because she was waiting for the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: mayor to make a statement before she was was going
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 5: to say anything about NYPD. It's an example of the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: things that the double standard that exists in this race
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: where we fight, we do what we need to do,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: but our record is going to get looked through, uh,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: you know, a fine tooth comb, while the other side
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: is just going to ignore any lack of commitments or
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 5: honesty or or just like waiting gain that I don't
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 5: think we can afford in this time when it comes size.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: So I'm gonna abolish ice, uh. And I'm going to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: help with the affordability crisis by unlocking opportunities to build housing.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: And those are the two things that the doors that
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: people have been looking for that I think are deeply made.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 6: And I'm sure as people can tell the last one
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: for me just to watch in the scenery, it's on
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 6: the ground, it's it's become a contentious fight, you know,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: within you know, among among allies. What what what has
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: the result like? What are you seeing on the ground
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 6: as particularly as you have DSA and Justice Democrats going
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 6: hard and Mom Donnie going hard like and what is
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: the what is the kind of class and cultural divide
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: and how is that playing out in the neighborhoods among
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 6: people who are newer, more educated versus people who've been
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: there a very long time.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Ryan, Look, I I want to be I want
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: to be careful here because I want to represent the
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: entire district, and I believe that I have the broadest coodition.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 5: I have, you know, Muslims from CityLine, every tenant association
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 5: president supporting me. I have the Asidic Jewish community in
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 5: Soft Witnessburg supporting me, like I have a really diverse coddation,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: actually diverse coodation, and I think that's how you win electus.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 7: But there is a there.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 5: Is a distinction between the two campaigns and who we're
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: targeting and having conversations with. I would say this that
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: my Clair Valdez is website in which she tells the
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: super pac to spend money. She has zip codes that
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: are exclusively in the richest parts of the district. And
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying that that we shouldn't be reaching out
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: to those residents. We should, but to send your super
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: pac almost exclusively to the places that are more affluent
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: and white is a reflection of where she thinks that
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: her bas is. Mine is going to be one where
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 5: we're reaching out to those folks as well. But I
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: am in East New York, I am in Cypress Hills,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: I'm in wood Haven, I'm in mass befriend Richard, Like
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 5: I'm everywhere in Glendale, just making sure that I show
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: up everywhere because we're going to win this by building
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: the broadest coalition. So I do think there's a divide there.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, when we get elected,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: we're going to want to represent everyone. But there's obviously,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: I think a distinction here between whose voters are who
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: and just turning out our bases.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: I thought this was interesting too, and I know you
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: guys talked about this in the debate for people who
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: don't know, so that this is what's called a red box,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 6: which is a way that candidates signal to you're not
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 6: allowed to legally coordinate with a superpack, and so the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: way that they coordinate without coordinating is they make it
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: public so everybody can see it. It's not a private
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 6: messages of public message, and they put it inside this
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 6: red box. They'll say voters need to you know, both
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 6: read and see on the go. Read and see on
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: the go would mean like Antonio, you know that's better,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 6: but that I feel like that's digital ads. But like
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: there's all this code, there's all this code, coded language
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 6: that goes in because you don't want to write please
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: buy digital ads, but they basically say it. But then
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 6: so down this is what you were talking about down
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 6: here even and you know, they even get into like
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: when when this needs to happen? The key targets, And
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 6: here's what you were talking about. Twenty twenty five mayoral primary.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 6: Electric needs to receive our message and turn out this
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: selection of persuasion women, white and Latino voters, hyperpensity DEM voters,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 6: voters under fifties still need to learn more about Claire.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 6: So they're what they're saying, here is the you know,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 6: name idea isn't high enough there mobilization. So this is
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 6: what she considers her base. So it's Bushwick, Williamsburg, Green Point, Ridgewoods, Sunnyside,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 6: Long Island City, and priority neighborhoods of Fort Green, Clinton Hill.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 6: A story that East Williamsburg the more gentrified areas. And
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: then here priority priority zip codes.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: Wow y link in a spreadsheet.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 6: So and so these are the key zip codes. Yes,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 6: So what you're telling me about these zip codes is,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: I don't you know? These are the these are the
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 6: more gentrified areas of New York City? Is at how
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: you would describe them?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: You could put a c tabe on that and put
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: average average am I in that, and you'll see exactly
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: what it looks like. So my thing is, it's not
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: that we all have to go after our bases, and
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 5: I have no problem for her going after her base.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: But we are the working class candidate. We are the
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: working class campaign, and we're going to keep pushing for
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: the really agenda and making sure people know that I'm
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: the only one that has a legislative record Cleva that
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 5: has not past one piece of legislation in the time
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: that she's been in the state Assembly. So when we
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: talk about the heart fights that we need to take
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: when we get to Congress, I'm the only one that
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: has shown that I can do the difficult things. And
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: I think we have too many performative elected officials in
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: Congress right now that like to make a lot of
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: noise but don't bring resources to that community. That's just
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: not somebody that I am or what I do. So
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 5: I'm looking forward to be able to represent this district
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: and show them that effective leadership is possible and that
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: we can make this country work. We can make government
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: work for the people of this country. So, yeah, you
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: saw the red box there and that was done after
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: we specifically said that we weren't going to take super
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: pac parney. So now super pac are in. She's got
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: almost a half a million dollars worth of super pac
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 5: for me from people that are given to Marjorie Tayl Green,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 5: the same people that gave to Greg Abbitt, and you know,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 5: so those are the people that are giving her money.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: And now at this point we have got to be
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: very careful because we committed to not allow them for
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 5: millionaires and billionaires to control this racer, to choose this
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: racer to be the outcome or the decider of who
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: wins this race. But now they're super pac money, and
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: now they're are campaign that was about policy, policy and
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: issues and distinctions that about campaigns have turned into who
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: can spend the most money at the end of this,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 5: you know, in the last week. And it's unfortunately that
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 5: we got there. But the clear about that campaign, uh
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: began this this nonsense, aical you know, uh, you know,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 5: like going back on her word on super PACs. And
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 5: I think that this campaign is going to descend into
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 5: a nasty place that I don't think we are any
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: of us wanted to be.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 6: Yeh did did she did she specifically promise not to
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 6: take super pac money. I'd be surprised because part of
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: her kind of path to victory was the kind of
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: the pro Palestine or anti genocide super practice out there
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 6: and justice Democrats. Yeah, that was it.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, she said we had our first one of
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: our first, if not our first public debate was the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: New York League Conservation Voters. You could look at it,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 5: and we all committed on that stage that we would
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: not take super pac funding. The thing here is that
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: it's one thing for us to say we're not going
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: to take super pac funding and then super PACs come
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: out because that's what they do and we can't control that.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: But to put up a red box clearly states that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: you are interested in directing any potential super pac money
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: to specific places and so forth. If we all committed
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: to not take super pac money, the least we could
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: have done is not have our red boxes up. But
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: once she put hers up, I farabigated to put mine up.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: Like I said, I don't want to have this campaign
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: be chosen by super PACs. But once Claire showed that
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: she was going to allow for that to happen, even
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 5: after she specifically said she would not take it. It
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: changed the game of this campaign and muddy the waters,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: and it's unfortunate thing. But she did say that, Ryan,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 5: word to word. If you look at the New York
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: League of Conservation Voters video, you can see it.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at the some of the coverage
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 6: from back then. Well bro President Antonio Reinoso, candidate for
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: New York's New York seventh District, the races.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 5: What eleven days, eleven days, Ryan, eleven days, and we
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: need these days to come.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 7: Let me tell you my kids, my kids, my kids.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 7: I you know, I have two boys.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: One of them is in Little League, the other one
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: is in this first kindergarten prom today. Uh, and I
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: need to I need to be I want to be
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: there with my kids right now. You all know that
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: campaign is especially for congresses in that house, so uh,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: you know, really looking forward to being backward for my family,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: but excited, excited about the future. What's going to happen
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: on June twenty third, And I think we're gonna show
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: people that building coalitions and being together and building true
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: solidarity is what people want.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 6: The kindergarten prom do I hear that?
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: That's a kindergarten prom. I wish I could send you
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 5: a picture. I have him in a three piece suit.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: He looks so cute. Yes, it is, it is. I'm
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: going to put it up on Instagram so if anybody
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: wants to see it, they can see. Yeah, my five
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: year old son is in a prom.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 7: So he's a.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: He's a special needs kid, he has autism. So it's
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: a class of only five students, so I don't know
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: what they're going to be doing, but the five, the
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: five kids are doing a prom.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 7: It's going to be awesome. I can't wait to see
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 7: the videos.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 6: It is cool. And good luck in Little League as well.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, so a lot of work to do, right,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: and my kid has to go to at least a
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: D one college baseball team, so I don't need to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: pay for uh these high expensive tuition for these colleges.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: So that's what I'm working on. But the coaches think
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 5: I'm crazy. Yeah, they kicked me out of the field
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: all the time. They're like, hey, there's no scouts here yet,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: you can go sit down.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 7: But I'm one of those crazy parents with baseball. Are
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 7: I love it?
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 6: Clint? I, well, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 6: Really appreciate it, absolutely appreciate you. Take care of joining us.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 6: Now is Amy du Coorey, who is an attorney with
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 6: CAER Michigan, to discuss the latest indictments. The federal government
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 6: has handed down sweeping indictments against eight people who participated
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 6: in campus protests or participated in the protest movement in
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 6: Michigan against Israel's genocide in Gaza back in twenty twenty four. Amy,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 6: thanks so much for walking us kind of through these
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 6: through these charges and what they mean. Thank you for
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 6: being here.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 10: Should no problem. I'm happy that you guys are covering
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 10: such an important topic.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's totally crazy. And we've been following this story,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 6: you know, for for quite some time. And the timeline
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 6: as I you know, there's the timeline as I remember it,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 6: and you correct me. Where I'm wrong here is that,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: you know, as the campus you know, cracked down unfolded,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 6: there was pressure on Eli Savage, who was the ann
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 6: Arbor at the time, was the ann Arbor prosecutor, to
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 6: really throw kind of a whole bunch of felonies at
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 6: these these students who are protesting. Uh, the Michigan's complicity
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 6: in Israel's genocide. He declines too to do so effectively.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 6: Attorney General Dana Nessel then, under pressure, you know, from
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: the Michigan the Regents, the Board of Regents and also
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 6: you know pro Israel, you know, forces both in the
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: state and nationally. Uh, she then tries to go forward
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 6: with you know, serious charges. And it feels like a
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 6: lot of them got tossed or dropped, like it did.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 6: Like it feels like those fizzled as well. And now
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 6: two years later we have federal charges fell in it,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 6: like major charges coming from Trump's Department of Justice. And
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 6: in the meantime, I'm you had one of the most
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: vocal Board of Regents members lose his primary to to
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 6: an anti genocide candidate, and you had Savat himself, who
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 6: had declined to press these go forward with these charges,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 6: become the nominee for Attorney General in Michigan. And you've
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 6: had Abdul sayad Uh kind of as Israel has become
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 6: central to the Michigan Senate primary vault into the lead
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 6: as the front runner. And then severally you have these
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 6: efforts in the Michigan legislature to say, actually, maybe this
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 6: whole idea of having people vote on who's in the
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 6: Board of Regents is bad and we shouldn't even let
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 6: people vote the whole Like if voting matter, they would
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 6: make it illegal. They're actually so now they're actually it
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: does matter, and so they're trying to make it illegal.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 6: So it's a real kind of clash. And Tom Perkins
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 6: and I have a piece that will be up later
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 6: today over it over at drop site. I think we'll
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 6: we'll see what headline we go with. But right now
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 6: or think of the issue of Israel's ending democracy in Michigan.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 6: So in my timeline there kind of what did I miss?
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 6: What did I what did I get wrong? Like what
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 6: what is unfolded the last couple of years as it
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 6: relates to these these protests.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 10: Sure, so I think I think your timeline is quite
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 10: frankly right on. What I'd like to add to your
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 10: timeline though, is that it's actually interesting to see that
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 10: right after the encampment happened, or maybe at the time
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 10: the encampment was happening, the University of Michigan, through its
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 10: Board of Regents, hired a private surveillance company, and that
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 10: private surveillance company is now accused of stalking and harassing
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 10: a U MISS student. That's a lawsuit, that's that's pending
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 10: right now. What is what also is missing is the
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 10: fact that, yeah, the Attorney General brought eleven charges. Two
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 10: of them were for misdemeanor trespassing, a charge that she
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 10: has never charged outside the context of the casinos before.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 10: Under from what we understand and at the time that
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 10: these charges were brought, there were some real questions about
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 10: why she was prosecuting these charges when really they should
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 10: have went to Eli Savatt, and he refused. When a
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 10: judge indicated that he was going to require her office
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 10: to turn over information about how these charges came to
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 10: her and why she brought them, that's when she dropped
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 10: all of the charges, so under pressure of having to
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 10: declare how she got them. What also was missing is
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 10: that over a year ago, at this point, the Attorney
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 10: General's office raided the homes of these eight individuals. At
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 10: that time, she invited the FBI into those raids. At
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 10: that time, the FBI indicated that they had no part
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 10: in the raid other than a supporting role. They were
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 10: not investigating them, and those raids were intended to produce
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 10: evidence about who may have vandalized personal property. Those charges
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 10: regarding vandalism have never came to fruition, not at all.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 10: But instead, more than a year later, we have federal
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 10: charges for some kind of conspiracy to commit threats. That's
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 10: using a tele communication device. And what the government is
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 10: saying is that the federal government is saying that these
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 10: individuals use.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 11: Twitter to.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 10: Engage in conspiring to commit a threats, like they had
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 10: a group or something on Twitter, and that's there no
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 10: that they were dming each other, and that the whatever
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 10: they posted on Twitter, in light of all of the
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 10: other rhetoric that was being said about their free speech,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 10: those have to be considered to be threats, and that
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 10: they were conspiring to use those Twitter to those Twitter
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 10: posts to indicate that they were a threat to the
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 10: regent and some other people.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 6: So yeah, so what what did they do? And what
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 6: are the charges? Like, let's let's get specific here, because
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 6: it's like it reading through it, it seems rather absurd,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 6: seems like a real stretch. So it would be what
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 6: would be the Steelman case for like that these kids
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 6: committed federal crimes.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 10: To be honest with you, I would challenge anybody who
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 10: actually read the indictment to try to pick out what
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 10: the crime is and try.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 6: To pick out what.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 10: Yeah, so they're charged with conspiracy to make a threat
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 10: using a telecommunication pace. That means they got together as
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 10: a group and they conspired to use the Internet or
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 10: social media to threaten certain people. And those are like
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 10: victims one through six, Right, But when you read what
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 10: the Twitter feed says, it seems like purely political speech.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 11: It says, we want divestment.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 10: We're going to organize, we're going to mobilize, we're going
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 10: to escalate for divestment. None of that seems like a threat.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 10: When you're talking about First Amendment law, you're really talking
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 10: about the threat has to be a really real threat.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 10: It has to be very specific. And I would charge
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 10: anybody to go through that document and figure out what
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 10: their really real threat was from Twitter, because that's what
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 10: they're charged.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 6: With and to Yeah. So, I remember, as an aside,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 6: when I was a bureau chief of news organization and
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 6: uh previously, one of our reporters got a pretty nasty
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 6: threat that was effectively like they told her like I'm
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 6: going to kill you basically, And we went to the
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: FBI and we said here's the like, here's the communication
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 6: that we got here's the person that said this, and
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 6: I remember them saying, this is not specific enough, Like
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 6: it was specific in that they were going to kill you,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: but it it didn't have a when they were going
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 6: to do it, didn't have where they were going to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 6: do it, didn't have how they were going to do it,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 6: and so there was a it was just a general
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 6: I'm going to kill you. And they said, you know,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 6: that's just speech. That's that does not cross the bar
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 6: into something actionable. If she wants to apply for a
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 6: temporary restraining order or a permanent restraint, you know, she
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 6: can certainly, you know, go for that, but as far
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 6: as something that we can enforce, that doesn't rise to
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 6: the level of a what we consider to be an
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 6: illegal threat. So I was thinking about that in the
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 6: context of this indictment, where what they're saying, we're going
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 6: to elevate pressure on the regents, like so that they
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 6: know we're going to protest, so that we can have
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 6: these demands met. Like, what is the closest thing that
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 6: they might have said that could be construed as an
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: actual threat.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 10: I don't think so after reading the indictment, I don't
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 10: think that any of their actual words would constitute a
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 10: threat outside of all of the hyperbolic other, you know,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 10: allegations that the Department of Justice has made and the
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 10: FBI have made, Like if you look at what was
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 10: put on Twitter and the realm of what was just
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 10: put on Twitter, I don't think any of that would
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 10: actually amount to a threat falling within the scope of
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 10: that law, right, which is why you see this indictment
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 10: having references to things that are happening overseas, geopolitical conflicts,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 10: you know, It's why you see them talking about designated
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 10: terrorist organizations overseas. What does that really have to do
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 10: with anything going on with these students who are asking
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 10: to divest from a genocide, asking their university where they
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 10: pay their tax dollars, where they pay their tuition money,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 10: to divest from the instrumentality of genocide. It doesn't have
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 10: anything to do with it. But by you know, adding
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 10: all this loaded language, all of these allegations about things
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 10: that they've never been charged with, never been convicted of,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 10: they're trying to turn what looks like purely political speech
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 10: into something that's criminal. And that's the real concern with
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 10: this indictment, and that's what this administration has been trying
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 10: to do since they took office.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 6: Quite frankly, and just to read from some of it,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 6: and here's from local news from they quote the indictment.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 6: Their criminal activity included spray painting, threats, breaking windows, and
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 6: throwing glass jars filled with noxious chemicals into family homes.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 6: They mark their victims with threatening symbols used by Hamas.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 6: I assume that's the red triangle they're referring to, oh,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 6: including red inverted triangles and red handprints. They use the
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 6: Internet and social media to broadcast their message to ensure
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 6: their threats and commitment to continuing criminal activity were heard
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 6: by their victims and others who support Israel. So what
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 6: do we know about this noxious chemicals into family homes
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 6: and breaking windows and throwing glass jars and such.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 11: We don't know anything about it.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 10: And quite frankly, the reason we don't know any about
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 10: thing about it is because nobody was charged with that.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 10: Nobody's been charged with that, nobody's being convicted of that.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 10: But it's here as if it's like a studfast statement
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 10: that they've done that did this activity happen? And if
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 10: there is criminality, let the criminality be charged right? Let
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 10: what that would be a crime, right, let that have
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 10: it stay in court. But instead we're taking these loaded
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 10: allegations of criminality that have never been charged, nobody's been
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 10: convicted of, and we're throwing them in here as if
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 10: there's some steadfast rule. And my guess is if they
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 10: had enough evidence to charge those crimes, they would have
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 10: charged those crimes. But they didn't. So what they did
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 10: is they charged their speech. And let's be frank like saying,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 10: like trying to tie red hand prints to something that
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 10: Hamas did is really kind of absurd, Like there is
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 10: a general understanding that red hand prints across all movements
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 10: have meant that you have blood on your hands. It's
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 10: a general symbol of killing. And to say that it's
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 10: exclusively tied to Hamas is ludicrous and is done solely
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 10: for a political purpose.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 6: And the red triangle, you know, for people who don't
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 6: know that, like that often appeared in Kassam videos where
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 6: they would be putting out battle footage between them and
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: the Israelis and the red triangles would mark Israelis that
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 6: they were targeting. But our language, and I'm curious how
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 6: this holds up in court, Like our language in general
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 6: is very violent, in the United States, like we're always
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 6: talking about like all of our political language uses war metaphors.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 6: Just watch any debate for a city council even and
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 6: they're going to use they're going to use metaphors from
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 6: war to describe what they're doing in the campaign to
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 6: their opponent or with or with their tactics or their strategy.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: It's just this is a country that's been at war
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 6: for most of its history, and that's just what we're
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 6: kind of soaked in. And so when you're talking about
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: beating someone politically, if it is illegal to use language
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 6: related to battles or war, pretty much every politician, I
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 6: think would be guilty of it. So I would think
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 6: that the red triangle, like the red triangle seems to
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 6: be obviously protected speech. If it's not, what does that
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 6: do If like that's criminal, what does you know where
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 6: do you end up drawing then the boundaries over over
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 6: what can be said online?
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 10: I mean, I mean that's a great point, isn't it.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 10: Like symbolism is considered to be pure, pure speech, right,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 10: even symbols are pure speech and they are protected under
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 10: the First Amendment. And when you have one administration using
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 10: the arm of law enforcement to determine what can and
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 10: cannot be said, what is legitimate and what is not
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 10: legitimate within the bounds of a viewpoint. We are running
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 10: on a slippery slope where anybody who's coming after them
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 10: can say, you know what, we don't like this. We
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 10: find it to be inherently violent. We're not going to
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 10: allow it to be used. And that's just not the
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 10: standard of First Amendment that we have. The First Amendment
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 10: protects all speech, even if you don't like it, even
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 10: if it's ugly, except for really real threats, Like that's clear,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 10: and the threats have to be specific, they have to be,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 10: you know, actually capable of being carried out and saying, hey,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 10: we're targeting you because you won't divest. When divest is
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 10: one of the most peaceful forms of protest, right, It's
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 10: it's the use of your dollars to commit to cause
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 10: or to decommit from a cause. It's like the most
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 10: peaceful kind of speech. And we don't want our tax
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 10: dollars to be used for this, So we're going to
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 10: target you and tell you divest.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 11: Like that's not inherently violent.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 10: They're trying to draw a line to say it's violent
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 10: because they don't like the viewpoint that we're trying to
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 10: divest from. And that's that's a real big problem, and
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 10: I think more Americans should frankly, be very very worried
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 10: that we're challenging the Constitution in this way.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and the speech people have been saying for a
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 6: couple of years now that the phrase from the river
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 6: to the sea is violent. They say, which I think
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 6: to most people are like, what, No, that's that's ridiculous.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 6: But what they will say is what they mean is
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 6: that from the river to the sea will be kind
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 6: of one state and it will no longer be a
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 6: Jewish state, and that will unleash than a genocide of
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 6: the Jewish Israeli people inside those borders. So therefore I
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 6: perceive that as a call as a call to violence.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 6: You had Mark Dubawitz this week. I just went to
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 6: find his tweet. I just noticed he'd deleted it. You
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 6: may have seen this viral post where he said that
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 6: Peter Beiner, who is a you know, anti Zionist Jewish writer,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 6: they said, now that Iatola Caamania is dead, now that
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 6: Sinwar is dead, I'm Peter Biner is the biggest threat
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 6: to to the state of Israel because Peter Biner supports
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 6: one state solution with equal rights for all people within
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 6: the state. According to Dubowitz, like he's as violent as
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 6: Jaga sinwar because he's calling for that. If his now
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 6: it read actually as a threat against Peter Byen and
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 6: apparently woulds finally conceded to that and has deleted it.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 6: But ironically, what he seems to be saying is that
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 6: calling for one state is a call for violence, or
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 6: that because it would lead to violence, that from the
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 6: river the sea is violent because it would lead to violence.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 6: And so it does seem like it is a way
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 6: that it would start to criminalize all manner of speech
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 6: that is dissenting from whatever the kind of hedge of
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 6: mony viewpoint is at the moment by saying that it's well,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 6: three steps later, somebody might there might be some violence
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 6: down the road. Is there any chance that this prevails
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 6: under the current court system that we have? Now, what
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 6: is what is your sense of what the next step is?
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 10: So you know, just first to remark about your comment
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 10: from the river to the sea that requires an inference
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 10: upon an inference, And it's ironic that calling for equal
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 10: rights is seen as violent, but also don't we have
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 10: something similar here in the US where we It's like
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 10: it's in one of the songs that we're taught as children,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 10: from Sea to Shining Sea, is that inherently a call
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 10: to violence against Indigenous people of America? Because that's what
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 10: they're saying, that's what they're saying that it is for Israel.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 10: And I think that more people should you know, kind
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 10: of you know, critique that that criticism of of of
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 10: that language.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 11: More in depth.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 10: But with regards to like what's going to happen, you know,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 10: we have a we have a criminal justice system for
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 10: a reason.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 11: The government is required to prove their case.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 10: They they are going to have to show that these
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 10: Twitter posts that's say we're.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 11: Going to mobilize, organize.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 10: And escalate, seeking divestment are somehow really real threats that
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 10: they carried real weight, and that they intended they they
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 10: intended them to be threats. Like that's their burden, quite frankly,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 10: to prove. And I have faith in the criminal justice system.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 10: I have faith in our judiciary still, even though we've
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 10: seen some you know, not so great political decisions coming
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 10: out of certain courts. So the hope is that you
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 10: know the court will look at this, they'll get it right,
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 10: and you know we will be free from having to
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 10: worry about the politicization politicization of the Department of Justice
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 10: in a manner that's intended to stop the free flow
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 10: of information on college campuses, which is where we want
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 10: the free flow of information to be.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 6: Quite frankly, all right, well, we'll keep following this. I
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 6: think this is an extraordinarily important case which could wind
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 6: up pushing us much closer to the UK and some
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 6: other more restrictive places if they prevail in saying that
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 6: these very vague claims of pursuing your political goals actually
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 6: amount to violence. So Amy, thanks for joining us, and
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 6: look forward to having you back on us to keep
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 6: us updated as this unfolds.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 11: Thank you,