Latest / The Curve / RTC90: The cost of transitioning with Allegra Bambi Haines.

Transcript

RTC90: The cost of transitioning with Allegra Bambi Haines. · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
0:05
to be better with your money.
0:07
And the wise words of Amy Shurma were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
0:11
I don't really get the saying.
0:14
It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
0:17
You know, I'm like, still not wearing it.
0:19
Are you on the script?
0:20
It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
0:26
need to be.
0:27
OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
0:31
OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
0:33
It's the brownie recipe.
0:35
OK, we got there, we got there, OK.
0:36
OK, well, you've really got a finance mate.
0:39
Yeah, one of us has to.
0:41
This is a joke.
0:41
OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
0:45
Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
0:48
And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
0:51
It's so not the joke, Vick.
0:54
OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
0:56
Because together, we really can raise the curve.
1:03
So I'm going to leave so many to do this one, because I feel like she's been on the
1:06
each of us to try and get a leaguer in here, like, honestly, she's so excited.
1:11
I've never seen her so pumped on a podcast.
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So I just love her.
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Yeah.
1:14
Her name is Allegra Bambi Haynes, and I met her here over in London.
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But I'm not going to spend much time introducing her.
1:21
This entire conversation was eye opening, hilarious, really.
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Would you say intense at times?
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Intense?
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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It was trans awareness week last week in the UK, and we wanted to highlight and amplify
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a voice that we both love.
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Who has an incredible story is hugely successful from a career and money perspective,
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but just has such a great sense of humour and was open talking about her journey transitioning.
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So without further ado, Allegra Bambi Haynes.
1:52
Allegra.
1:53
Hi.
1:54
So excited that you're in studio with us.
1:57
I reckon so has been like, I think you're my most, well, do you know what it is?
2:01
So I first met Allegra.
2:03
We were working, so we have a shared working space, which now I've come and joined the crew,
2:07
you know, she was poor old things, I can't even see on the roll, I think, are these
2:11
freaks that you're making?
2:12
I was working at home.
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She's like, I'm not jealous, I'm not at all, but we've got work to do, Sophie, so stop
2:18
hanging out in the freaks.
2:19
No, so we met last year, not for long, when I spent like three months over here.
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And it's one of those workplaces, did you make like in the lunch room when you were like,
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I just wanted you having fun, I think I thought of myself on her, yeah, I was very much
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like, hi, I like your outfit.
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It's not.
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Can we talk?
2:35
There was a restraining order on my, I think it was like trying to get away, like doodling,
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how do you get a restraining order quick?
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How do I change office locations?
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Yeah.
2:42
What's my contract there?
2:43
Yeah.
2:44
It's one of those workplaces, there's so many interesting people, like cool outfits,
2:49
cool people, everyone's doing such interesting stuff, but I feel like within the first 10
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minutes, I was like, I want to be friends with you, you, and you.
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So I've sat down there and she's like, gosh, there's just so many hot guys here.
2:59
And I was like, yeah, do you not reckon?
3:02
Oh, totally.
3:03
The working spaces is slightly triggering for anyone that didn't enjoy high school, because
3:09
it's kind of exactly the same, I agree, babe, you all meet in the canteen at lunch time.
3:15
You all do the awkward flirting where it's a bit like, you know, you're just having
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slightly nicer lunches.
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You're also at the same time.
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Totally.
3:23
You're at the desk.
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There's just no teachers, which is why, which is why not me, thank you, although I have
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drilled a hole so I can spy, nobody, it's like school.
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It really is like school.
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And with that comes, you gravitate towards certain groups.
3:41
Oh, my God, it's so true, and I've never thought of that.
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It is quite distracting, I must say.
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Today, I faced away from everyone and the work that I got done, I tell you what, that's
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why my parents hit me to an all girls' school, which now feels so archaic, the thought
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of separating genders as bizarre.
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I don't know if that's a healthy thing to do.
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My parents would give me an egg cup of wine when I was 11 to be part of the family enjoyment
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of food and sat around the table and not feeling left out, and I think it gave me a really
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healthy attitude to alcohol.
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If you rather than having 18 and being like, woohoo, completely, you know, not having
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that kind of, it's the devil, it's this, it's that.
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I always say that thing, like with chocolate, if you're like, no, no, you can't have it,
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and then you're allowed it, you go a hundee.
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What is a bit like going to an all girls' school, going a hundee on man?
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No, but it is, I think, with school.
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I noticed that my friend who went to co-ed schools would come out just like having these
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very normal conversations with the opposite sex, and I would be like, quite nervous and
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weird.
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Still am a bit.
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I was going to say, does that stay with you?
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Yeah, I mean, you've seen it in action, I'm very much struggle.
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I really struggle with the whole like, friendship, flirting line, because I think I just sort
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of flirt with everyone, but then I also friends on everyone.
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It's quite strange.
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You've got to be selective with who you flirt with, save your flirting, save your like
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maximum flirting with the people that you actually really, that's such a good piece of advice.
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Yeah, because you can be, I'm naturally like a really flirty person.
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I get it from my mom, she's also the same, like friendliness kind of borders with flirtiness,
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and I think that it's a really lovely quality to have, but you're right, how do you differentiate
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between flirting with somebody who you don't fancy, flirting with someone who you do fancy?
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And I think it's a skill.
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Can we whine things back?
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Because for a lot of people listening, they won't know, whoops, look in the napkin.
5:36
And actually, ironically, I had no idea that Allegro was transgender.
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I had no idea when we met, and it was quite funny, because one of the first times,
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actually it wasn't the first time, but since I got back to the UK, we were in elevator
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together.
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And you were joking about how there were so many people in there, and it was just as tight
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as you were drunk.
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And I was like, that was like the second time that you're in, I was like, this girl is
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wild.
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Yeah.
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Love also, I was like, so awkward of that elevator.
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I was like, oh my god, get me out of here, get me out of here.
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At what point did you not realize, because I'm assuming that you already, like the six
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that you were assigned at birth was not how it should have been?
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At what age did you come to cognitively realize that you weren't in the body that matched
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how you feel?
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It was so unforty too.
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So life back then, for somebody who was, let's say, eight years old, is very different
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to an eight year old now.
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I also grew up in South Wales, countryside, which was beautifully idyllic in so many ways,
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but completely not exposed to real life, which I think is like, I can only look back and
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think that is kind of a good thing, right?
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But in terms of, if I was eight, so it was eight years old, if I was eight years old,
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nowadays living in a city, my parents would probably be, I don't know, googling how I could
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progress in my journey if that's what I wanted to do, but eight year old me in South Wales
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around that time, the cliches of hanging around with girls, the cliches of not wanting
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to do male sports, the kind of cliches of being quite shy and introverted were all absolutely
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true.
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So when I kind of like hear them, I'm like, no, no, no, these are the things that, that's
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how I was.
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It took me years to even understand or know what a trans person was, and when I say years,
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I mean like 21.
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Does that mean that you got to 21 and finally understood there was other people who felt
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like you did?
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Not as positive as that, right?
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Yeah, because again, it just wasn't a spoken about thing in the media like it is nowadays.
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Was it more society kind of catching up with what you were going through this time?
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Remember the time, I remember I was at high school when Caitlin Jenner came out as a transgender
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woman, and I think she was the first representation that I had seen in mainstream media as someone
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that had come from a, also a really like, shall to not particularly diverse upbringing.
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And I hadn't ever seen or heard of that before, you know?
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I can't imagine growing up in a space where there's zero representation, not only in your
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actual physical space, but in media and magazines and books and any kind of...
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There was nothing.
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And actually weirdly like, back then, the only representation in the media was ridicule.
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It was the wording was like, I mean, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm sure that the
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most horrendous word, which is a huge cuss to anyone who is trans, the word tranny is
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disgusting.
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That would have 100% would have been used in the newspapers.
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And actually what's funny is that not funny, but what's very odd is in the last three years,
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that kind of ridicule is coming back into the press, actually the therapy session today.
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And he specialises in clients who are part of like the rainbow community.
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He's such an amazing guy.
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And he was saying that in a very long time, he has to digest the news what's going on,
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the trans hate, but he is just so blown away with anger about it.
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He's a gay guy.
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And he said to me, he was like, I've not seen it this bad for years and years and years.
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And that reminded me and took me back to university when I was gay for five years, which was
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I wasn't comfortable with, but I pretended to be comfortable with because that's the
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box that I fitted in.
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I guess it was the only box that you could say that was sort of the only box.
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How you felt being the idea of straight.
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Yeah.
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And then I saw a really negative TV show, like a Jerry Springer style show where the guest
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was trans and the audience were like being that person.
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It was like circus style, like they were in the middle of the ring and the audience.
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But with that came a lot of the things that that trans woman is saying.
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I did you have penny drop moments where you're like, Oh, no, no, no, a horrendous penny drop
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moment.
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And it was a traumatic penny drop moment because that feeling of fight or flight, you know,
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that feeling where your blood runs cold, and I get it all the time.
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And I, I'm deep down believe my anxiety comes from that three minute segment on television
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because I remember sitting in my room thinking, Holy F, this is me and look at how people
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are reacting to this person and my life changed from then.
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That's the truth of it.
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It wasn't like a kind of, Oh my goodness, that's who I am.
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And now life's going to be amazing.
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It was a very much from that moment on for a good six years.
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It was a very mentally downward spiral while also trying to work while also trying to
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live a life while also trying to sleep well at night while also trying to, I don't know,
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manage an eating disorder that developed through the stress of this, I think, and also
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through.
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I've got to be skinny if I'm going to be female, you know, all of these things, also not
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having therapy for it, going to the doctor being prescribed anti anxiety medication.
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It was honestly hell.
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It's really hard and I'm sure it gets probably frustrating because as you can explain it,
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you can't empathize unless you've been through that.
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And I don't know, it must be kind of frustrating to have so many friends and so many different
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facets of life that will never truly understand what that struggle has been to come to a place
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where you're like, this is who I am and holy shit it has been, such an uphill battle
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to get there.
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Like we take for granted how easily we fit into the boxes and how damaging it is to not
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have that representation in all areas of everybody in any human that exists.
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It's a stone treating as well because you are so, you seem so confident and, you know,
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you give a such positive energy now to have known that you've gone through that, it's
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really.
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I think that you, when you've been to the depths of your life and you have that moment,
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I don't know if you've ever had this before, it took me a long time to try and describe
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this in therapy when I first started.
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But that moment where you're pulled out of your physical body and you're looking back
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on your physical body and you just think, this is me, what's happening, what's going
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on?
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It's such a weird feeling.
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It's almost just association.
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I've had out of body.
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It's out of body and it always happened, used to happen when I was in bed at night time.
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Sleep has always been such a thing for me.
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Now I sleep well, which correlates with happiness in my life.
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Between the ages of 21 and 25 or 26, I told no one.
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So you found out, did you say, at 21, that was when you watched that?
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Light bulb moment.
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So if the preceding four or five years after that, I didn't tell anyone, I didn't see
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any help.
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It sat in my body.
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I feel like that knot of anxiety I had for six years and it just got tighter and tighter
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and tighter until it was make or break.
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Who was the first person that you talked?
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And how was their reaction and their family and friends?
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Amazing.
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I've actually met them on very brief issues, such a lovely hearing.
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I mean, I just think, yeah, to get to the point where you feel comfortable even saying
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the words out loud, to think that there's people who are met with not that reaction,
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you just can't imagine.
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I just can't fathom.
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It's very easy for me to say as somebody who is a trans female.
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However, I think we need to be very clear on something.
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Just because you're from a minority does not make you an amazing person.
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It doesn't make you somebody who is very open-minded because often minority fights against a minority.
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So it would be very easy for me to sit here and say, as a parent, I would never neglect
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my child in a way that I would turn against them for being who they want to be and being
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open and honest about that, but that's the parent I would be.
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I cannot fathom any parent that would not allow their child to be who they would want
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to be.
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It's, for me, it's emotional abuse.
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It is emotional abuse and that person should probably never have kids in the first place.
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So I think first and foremost, it was just like an explanation to her of my feelings.
15:03
That was actually a really beautiful moment because for me, it always reminds me of going
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for dinner and having a glass of wine, glass of red wine, and just chatting and chatting
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things through, like, almost opening this five years worth of feelings out.
15:17
And also, I was not eating properly.
15:20
It was a bit of a mess.
15:21
Well, you're a bit of a so unhappy.
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It was just unhappiness because it was a weird ritual for me.
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Like for me, it was bulimia.
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So it was a very weird ritual of, it was almost a bit like, I've eaten my main.
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Now here's my dessert, which was actually just throwing up.
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And for me, it was controlled, but also, I think for me, it was a bit more like, I've
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got nothing really to live for.
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I don't know what's going on with me.
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So why not just make my life even more, more shit?
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So it was more self-septage, or the need for it?
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100%.
15:53
Yeah.
15:54
So do you think that moment where you could sit down with your mum and almost, probably
15:58
for the first time as well, expressing words, what's taken six years to understand yourself,
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this is how I'm feeling.
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And I imagine that would have been really cathartic to be able to talk through from the beginning.
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This is actually what it feels like for me.
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And did it bring you to closer in terms of like, you both were trying to understand what
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was going on?
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Or was she was trying to understand what was going on?
16:20
Yeah, I think, yeah, 100%.
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And I think it was cathartic to go through it, maybe not so much at the time, but looking
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back now.
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I was very mindful that my mum had, well, definitely even less of an idea of what this
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was.
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But she took it in such an incredible way, in such a wise way, almost like she knew everything
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about it.
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She almost became like my partner in crime when it came to how I was feeling at that stage.
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I wasn't ready to tell anyone else, I just wasn't ready.
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And I think like, you know, it's that thing of when the event showed I did start telling
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other people, why didn't you tell me earlier, why wasn't I part of this?
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And I'm like, this had absolutely nothing to do with you.
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And I have to go through this in the way that I go through it because these are my feelings.
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This is my body and it's been my suffering.
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So now my healing is, is me.
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And I think that the one thing I would say being trans does is for me, it has made
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me the strongest person I've ever met in my entire life.
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I really do mean that.
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I look back now as an adult at what the suffering is just everything that a trans woman in
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my case has to go through and hats off to the community because it's a lot.
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It's an ongoing project.
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It's like buying a house that you're constantly doing up and renovation, the renovation
17:54
the events and you're sleeping in those dusty bedrooms.
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You haven't got a bathroom, the kitchens, just, you know, all of these things.
18:01
It's actually such a great analogy, a really good analogy.
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I think through therapy, I always use a house in almost every analogy I do.
18:09
And the other one is on the subject of kind of like other people, it's like, this is
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the house that I have built.
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If I want you to come into that house, I'll answer the door and I'll show you my roads.
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I love that.
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But also when it comes to like guys, it's like, I haven't had like a huge amount of boyfriends.
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I've had boyfriends, but I think one of the main things is, okay, the house I've built
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is almost finished and it's amazing.
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I've spent a fortune on it.
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I've got a new sofa, like Don't Spill Red Wine on it.
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I've ruined my house because if you begin to start ruining my house, I ask you to leave.
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So it's kind of like this.
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I love the similarity.
18:51
Yeah.
18:52
Well, you'd be incredibly protective of that house.
18:54
Yeah.
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The insurance that you've put on that house, but it's hectic.
18:58
Yeah.
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But you have to make sure you don't lock the door.
19:03
Because then the last thing I would ever want to be, and I'm definitely not, is kind of
19:08
someone who is cold due to suffering.
19:13
I think you are very much so you know.
19:17
Yeah.
19:18
I'm just wanting to know.
19:19
So once you made the decision to transition, what is the cost that's involved and what
19:24
is the process to start with hormone therapy, like, yeah, once, I guess you've been making
19:29
that decision and then the cost involved in that, I'm keen to know.
19:33
Yeah.
19:34
It's really hard to navigate for people.
19:36
Yeah.
19:37
There are two paths that you go down, the NHS, which is the National Health Service,
19:42
the National Health Service in the UK, which, you know, just Google it, Google NHS and
19:48
trans and you will see the articles, the waiting lists, very sadly, a trans person killed
19:57
themselves.
19:58
I think it was about four days ago because depression linked the mum thinks to the
20:03
wait that's always involved, the way that often the NHS aren't that empathetic with people.
20:11
That's from my experience.
20:12
I want to really make sure that I say that, that's my experience.
20:16
I went down the NHS route, but very quickly came off it.
20:20
It was just too long.
20:22
It was too long.
20:24
I missed an appointment because I was at work and I, nobody knew, I was very junior.
20:32
I had this kind of like anxiety of like never leaving before anyone else because what would
20:39
people think.
20:40
Like, if I say I'm going to a doctor's appointment, they're not going to believe me.
20:45
You know, I was working on a TV show at the time and it was like a crucial stage of filming,
20:49
so I missed my appointments.
20:50
I didn't have the guts to say, I have a really important appointment because I missed one
20:55
appointment.
20:56
They struck me off.
20:57
So you go to the bottom of the list essentially?
20:59
Yeah.
21:00
And what was the initial wait?
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Do you know what back then, so that would have been like when I was 26, which is 16 years
21:07
ago?
21:09
I think it was like four or five months.
21:11
Wow.
21:12
It was quite a long time.
21:14
And is that just to have an appointment to start the process, not even?
21:18
Yeah.
21:19
So I was distraught because I just thought that was my kind of lifeline.
21:25
I then looked into ways to go private.
21:30
I haven't accepted money for my parents since my dad gave me 300 quid on my first day
21:34
at university.
21:36
It was never an option to turn to my parents because then they didn't know when my mum
21:41
knew the rest of my family didn't.
21:45
So I started looking into it.
21:47
I have worked between leaving uni, moving to London to that point really hard.
21:53
I had two jobs, I worked in television, I also worked in a bath, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
21:59
So I was working full, like a lot.
22:02
So going private is absolutely a privilege, but it's a privilege that I worked really
22:07
hard for.
22:08
Yeah.
22:09
Like I scrimped and saved.
22:11
So I went, actually went down the private route and the first instance was to see an
22:17
anthropologist and see a psych other way around, I can't remember who I saw first.
22:23
And then to obtain the hormones that I'd be waiting for.
22:27
And was your motivation to work that hard because you were specifically wanting to spend
22:33
your money on this?
22:34
Or has that always been a part of who you are as a worker and my parents are amazing.
22:39
My dad's an entrepreneur.
22:42
He was always, always the case of get a job.
22:46
Like first job, probably when I was about 14 working on a farm, what were you doing?
22:53
Like potato picking.
22:54
Then I got a job in the local shop and I just loved having my own money.
23:00
I was the same.
23:01
I was like itching to hit my own job so that I could get my own spending money.
23:04
It was quite good where I grew up actually because it's quite an affluent area.
23:08
Everyone does pretty well.
23:10
To school, I went to again, it's very affluent school.
23:13
But where I grew up, there was this kind of like down-to-earth, incredible work ethic.
23:20
It wasn't just like loads of kids driving around in sports cars that their parents had
23:23
bought them.
23:24
And even to this day now, people I went to school with have set up shops and restaurants.
23:31
And there's this real, and I don't know what that is.
23:35
I've never actually really thought about that before until now.
23:38
But I always remember wherever I worked, I worked in a hotel, waiting tables.
23:43
I always remember just getting that brown, paper, mini envelope with the cash in it.
23:50
I would be like a hundred quid, a hundred and fifty quid.
23:53
And like...
23:54
Yes.
23:55
This is mine.
23:56
This is mine.
23:57
And like I can do whatever I want with it and that's obviously super empowering.
24:03
That's definitely translated into adult life.
24:07
Having that work ethic definitely is the reason why I set my own business up.
24:13
Because I think when you understand the value of money, then you think to yourself, why
24:18
am I earning it for other people?
24:20
Because I know the value of money.
24:22
So I think in answer to your question, no, I wasn't saving for a transition.
24:27
But I think the one blessing in life that I had was that I managed to be able to save
24:34
to transition.
24:35
Would you have a head and idea at that point as to what you needed to save for and what
24:39
that looked like from a timeline perspective?
24:41
Yeah, I had you done research in terms of this is how much the cost is, how much need
24:45
to save or was it kind of just pay as you go?
24:48
I think if I'd done a spreadsheet with a breakdown of how much it was going to cost,
24:54
I would have probably scared myself to the point of it's almost like buying another
24:59
house.
25:00
So had you bought a house at 26?
25:03
No.
25:04
Oh, okay.
25:05
Sorry.
25:06
We need to get another house.
25:07
No, I mean, I've bought a house now, but this is like pulling it back to that analogy
25:10
of like buying, you know, keep up, babe.
25:12
Sorry, sorry.
25:13
I'm trying.
25:14
I'm trying.
25:15
Good.
25:16
So if I had done a spreadsheet with all the kind of costs laid out, I would have shut
25:23
the laptop and gone.
25:24
I don't know if I want to do this or I don't know if I can do this.
25:28
But the cost involved, I mean, private prescription hormones, probably about 100 quid a month.
25:35
But the private guy that I used to go and see would almost make me buy and bulk.
25:41
So that would be a grand.
25:44
This was when I was young, right?
25:45
And I was working a job and working hard, but it wasn't like, I don't know where it was,
25:50
it was like the sweats of, oh, wow.
25:54
And then obviously everyone is very different hormone to do adapt your body in different ways.
26:00
Some people grow breasts, some, I'm talking obviously from a trans female perspective here.
26:04
Some people grow small breasts, big breasts, like cis women that everyone's body shape is
26:08
different.
26:09
Then obviously if you want to go down the surgical route, which 100% I did because that's
26:15
what I wanted to do.
26:17
There's the cost of everything involved in that, you know, breast augmentation is sort
26:22
of seven grand.
26:24
And was there ever a point where you were like, oh gosh, I can't afford this.
26:27
I can't do this.
26:28
Or was it, you know, always the motivation of, I will find a way.
26:32
I didn't have that mentality.
26:34
And that could possibly sound, again, privileged, I really don't want to, but I just don't
26:40
want to.
26:41
So I think that if there's something that you want badly enough, we all know how capable
26:47
we are.
26:48
And you would have just, you didn't need any more drive.
26:50
Like that was, you know, enough to be like, right, how can I make this happen?
26:55
Not can I?
26:56
It was all very subconscious though.
26:57
Like it wasn't this kind of like thing that like we, a lot of people do know, right, things
27:01
down, you know, believe, achieve and all it was, it wasn't that, it was, it was manifestation
27:08
has been, if you want to meet someone who can manifest something, meet a trans male
27:13
or trans female, because when I was 11 walking down the cliff path with my dog, thinking
27:19
I want to be Kate Moss, I want to walk like her, I want to talk like her, I want to
27:25
look like her.
27:26
Does it live in?
27:27
Yeah.
27:28
It's so, it's really cool to hear that.
27:29
By the way, I didn't get what I wanted, I got a version, I got a version of what I wanted.
27:36
And I guess was that kind of like a slow process in terms of building different rooms in
27:39
the house?
27:40
Did you go for like the essentials and we get the kitchen in or like, I chose the wrong
27:44
wallpaper in a few rooms.
27:46
I had to, I had to read a couple of times.
27:51
My lips, my lips were huge, my face looked almost painful with the amount of injectables
28:00
that I had done.
28:01
There's certain tweaks that I've had done on my face for sure.
28:04
I had to really go through some stages.
28:08
And because I only took my first hormone on my 30th birthday, which is very sweet, my
28:13
friend put it on for me, we're still like really close friends today.
28:17
It's a gel.
28:18
No, it's a gel.
28:19
So you rub it on your thigh or your arm and he did it for me and it's cute.
28:23
Yeah, it's amazing.
28:24
It's really non-invasive either.
28:25
You can get the injection, but I think that different people have different preferences.
28:31
I certainly put it on and I was like, this is definitely not working.
28:33
I've got any boobs.
28:34
What do you mean?
28:35
It's day two.
28:36
What do you mean?
28:37
Yeah.
28:38
I kind of like put the plug in the bath and put all of the gel in and just like lay there
28:41
for hours.
28:42
I need some more.
28:43
I need some more.
28:44
It's another thousand quid.
28:45
I had like estrogen on toast and it just did not work, but when you start your estrogen
28:53
journey, you go through puberty.
28:55
So I'm sure you ladies, when you went through your puberty, you probably made bad choices
29:01
when it comes to, let's say, hairstyles or every next year or like-
29:05
Oh, I make up at the time using concealer as lipstick, thinking that looked great.
29:10
You know what I mean?
29:11
It's just like wearing a refundation on your lips.
29:13
I'm like, it's my lipstick.
29:14
Yeah.
29:15
And like really, like really spidery eyelashes and like, but so I went through that just
29:21
at a later later and I also experimented with clothes like they got tighter.
29:27
My boobs got bigger and I loved it.
29:29
I kind of loved it.
29:30
I was a very kind of like embracing my shape.
29:33
It was very much like kind of tight bodies with like mesh at the front that kind of like
29:38
showed off the cleavage and, you know, high-waisted tight jeans and like, I love that, yeah.
29:45
I was like, come on and like, you know what?
29:48
I look back and I do not regret a thing, but I think as you get older, as I've got older,
29:52
I've just paired back a bit and just what makes me feel comfortable now is not that.
29:57
It was probably really nice to lean into the, like, the feeling of that femininity and
30:02
wearing big boots and wearing low tops, you know, and to be able to really own it.
30:08
And I think, and it's really interesting you bring up the puberty phase because just
30:13
watching sex education, Kyle, is transitioning in the show and-
30:20
Male to female, female to male.
30:23
And he's ejaculating and having all these orgasms that ran in times of the day and he
30:30
goes to have this, you know, sex therapy session and says, you know, I just don't know what's
30:35
wrong with me.
30:36
I'm so horny.
30:38
And for some reason, I can't remember the main character's name, which is not great.
30:41
But he basically says, you're going through puberty, you know, give yourself a bit of-
30:45
And it was also really cool to see that in a show that, you know, 13-year-olds are
30:51
going to be watching.
30:52
Well, it's teach, it's like, it's giving sex education.
30:54
Yeah.
30:55
That is amazing.
30:56
Yeah.
30:57
That is like, oh, well, that's how I might feel.
31:00
It's like navigating something with help is obviously so much easier than navigating
31:05
yourself.
31:06
But even if I think about, you know, our sex education was lacking.
31:09
So if ours was lacking and that was what was like mainstream sex education, you think
31:15
how far the S got to go before- because also I want to know what's happening for all
31:21
bodies.
31:22
And I can't even, I don't even really know what's happening with my own.
31:25
So you kind of can't understand the landscape unless you're taught, not just what's happening
31:30
within your body, but also to those around you.
31:32
And I think that it's, yeah, it's an education piece for everybody that needs to be better.
31:39
In terms of the financial implications, sorry, to just really hammer home on the money
31:45
side of things, but let us do that, let us do that.
31:49
Did it put you in a position where, you know, if you're heading towards 30 and thinking
31:55
about myself, I'm really starting to think about things like, do I want to buy a house?
32:00
What do I want in 20 years?
32:01
What do I kind of like, how do I want to spend my money consciously?
32:05
I think you get to an age where you've worked enough and you're like, oh God, I'm actually
32:08
just like throwing money away at this point.
32:10
I've really got to just like get my ducks back in a row.
32:13
So to be spending all that money at that age on not necessarily your pension or saving
32:22
for a house deposit or, you know, the things that society sees that you should be spending
32:28
your money on that debt.
32:29
Yeah.
32:30
Yeah.
32:31
How did you get to a place where, because you're incredibly successful and not just financially,
32:38
but how did you kind of get to a point where you've, you're like, okay, I feel like I've
32:42
spent the money that I want to to feel like myself.
32:47
And now I can start to think about how I want to build my life around that, because you
32:52
would have spent kind of an image on how much you're like Ration.
32:55
Can you quantify how much you think that you've spent over the years, even worth a lot
33:00
of a giant has 15,000 pounds in the UK, which I thought, well, that or a car, surely
33:06
the vagina.
33:07
Surely the vagina?
33:09
But in this way, I had to get a cab here.
33:14
Now I Uber everywhere.
33:15
Yeah, no, Tony, you need to come.
33:17
Yeah.
33:18
And I think probably within the realms, definitely of 75 grand.
33:23
That's pounds.
33:24
That's crazy.
33:25
75,000 pounds.
33:26
Yeah.
33:27
So sorry, because it's, it's not just the specialist appointments.
33:30
It's the, the therapists afterwards, it's the, you know, like it's not just the surgery,
33:35
it's all the after-year, the before-year, everything, it's also a therapist now.
33:41
So I've had my therapist now for seven years.
33:44
I see him every week.
33:45
It's a hundred-could-a-week.
33:47
Yeah.
33:48
And that is essential.
33:50
It's essential for everyone, it's essential for me.
33:55
I don't just talk about, you know, my gender, I talk about the business that I own, I talk
34:00
about my family relationships, my, you know, what I want from love.
34:07
He's a friend who I know nothing about.
34:11
I mean, if I right now could afford therapy, in fact, I would say it's up there with one
34:16
of the next things I would like to spend money on regularly, because I like to think
34:19
of therapy as it's upkeep.
34:20
Yeah.
34:21
It's you, I'm cleaning out the things that need to be dealt with as they go, rather than
34:25
waiting till I get to 50 and being like, oh, midlife.
34:28
It's like a, it's like a personal trainer for your mental health, rather than 100%.
34:32
Yeah.
34:33
I think you should, everyone should look at their brain essentially as a muscle.
34:36
You need to keep it going, you need to, you need to work it out.
34:40
And it's funny actually, because this happens in so many ways when it comes to finances with
34:44
people, priorities.
34:47
So a therapist, you can go through the NHS for a therapist.
34:51
A lot of therapists have grants where they can give you a slightly cheaper rate because
34:57
they've got funding from someone.
34:58
That's how I started with mine.
35:01
But often therapy is put second to nights out, Botox and gym memberships.
35:06
Guilty.
35:07
Yeah.
35:08
And listen, I'm, listen, I only got a therapist seven years ago, so I was 35.
35:14
So I went for a long time without doing it, because...
35:16
Well, really, you didn't have therapy at all throughout that process.
35:19
No.
35:20
Holy shit.
35:21
How did you process all of that?
35:23
My friend.
35:24
The one that rubbed it on?
35:26
No, different friend.
35:27
My friend does birth charts.
35:29
And she said, oh my goodness, I've never done your birth chart before.
35:33
Let's do it.
35:34
And she literally messaged me and she went, fucking hell, you're a triple cancer.
35:39
And I was like, what does that mean?
35:41
So I'm not one of these people that knows.
35:42
I'm not going to be like, oh my god, you're a sadge.
35:44
That must mean we're really good friends.
35:45
I've got a whole new...
35:46
No, neither.
35:47
People that do.
35:48
I'm like, wow.
35:49
I haven't got a clue.
35:50
But she was like, you're a triple cancer.
35:52
How do you deal with the emotions inside your head?
35:55
Well, because they're your a crib.
35:57
You stay inside your shell, let's say they're triple cancer, and you're just a...
36:01
So you have like your star sign then rising and falling?
36:05
Falling.
36:06
Yeah, I think not having therapy for a long time probably accentuated my triple cancer
36:10
mind.
36:11
Yeah.
36:12
Med.
36:13
But in answer to your question, going back to property and society at the end, resource.
36:22
I knew you're going to ask this question, and I kind of thought about it in the car
36:26
and the way here.
36:27
And I think that...
36:28
I think I definitely knew that the money that I was spending could have been used for
36:34
things like a deposit for a house, and actually 75,000 pounds back then would have got me
36:42
a nice house, not so much now in London, because it's so expensive.
36:45
I think your metaphorical house has been a much better investment.
36:48
Yeah.
36:49
And that's the thing.
36:50
Really, really, I mean, this is great time in the podcast, I said therapy today, so
36:54
I feel very therapist, but I do feel like I do not regret anything in life.
37:00
I root, honestly, I never look back and think, oh, why could have used that 75 grand forward
37:07
by a Range Rover, or I could have used that 75 grand by a house, I just do not regret
37:12
things like that.
37:13
So my mindset is not that.
37:15
So when it comes to the societal pressure of you should be buying a house now, it's
37:20
like society didn't work in my favour back then as to help me dictate as to who I was,
37:28
so I don't really need the societal pressure of you should be buying a house, because to
37:34
me that was just bullshit.
37:36
And then I went straight into setting up a business, which, as you ladies know, means it's
37:43
really hard to save.
37:45
You don't really pay us out very much for a long time.
37:47
Do you know my favourite thing?
37:49
I love this.
37:50
When you're out for dinner with a friend who works for someone great, often, you know,
37:56
I definitely go through stages of why I'm just not employed.
38:01
Why am I just not employed?
38:02
But I love it when a friend goes, the bill comes, oh, you can put this through your business,
38:07
can't you?
38:08
I'm like, it's like some medical disappearing ex that you don't have to pay for or something
38:14
at some point.
38:15
Yeah.
38:16
Can you buy me a laptop through business?
38:17
Yeah.
38:18
Can you claim it back?
38:19
Isn't it better because then you pay lose tech, so you just buy all my stuff.
38:21
Yeah.
38:22
To be honest, I would have been one of those people, I imagine.
38:24
Yeah.
38:25
No idea how it works.
38:26
Can you normally buy me a laptop, a mouse, a keypad, anything?
38:29
Just put it through your business.
38:32
But then I, you know, then the business started.
38:34
And I think then it was like, I think the thing with me is, will I ever feel complete?
38:40
Does one in life ever feel complete?
38:44
I mean, human nature to chase peace and contentment is the goal, right?
38:51
Like that is, I hope that's what I want.
38:53
I want to feel content and happy with my life.
38:57
But we are constantly surrounded with not enoughness.
39:03
So then I guess if you were to sit back and you look at 21 year old, you and how far
39:07
you've come in terms of that completeness, do you not feel like a completely different
39:12
human?
39:13
I feel like now I'm the mum to that 21 year old.
39:19
I feel like I'm obviously a very different person physically, my insides, my soul, my
39:26
heart, my brain are now aligned.
39:30
I am the same person though.
39:32
I think the funnily enough when I was trying to reassure people, which wasn't really my
39:36
job to do.
39:37
And I really don't even like that word when it comes to being a trans woman.
39:40
It's like, why should I reassure you things are going to be okay?
39:43
You should be reassuring me that I'm going to be okay.
39:46
Hold on.
39:47
Are people saying this to you?
39:48
I would have to, in my coming out process, I would have to reassure people.
39:53
But I'm still going to be the same person, but things aren't going to change.
39:58
It's very common, and all of a sudden the transition becomes about someone else and
40:03
not you.
40:04
Well, it's so hard.
40:05
It's like trying to grow within the confines of what someone else is telling you you
40:08
can be.
40:09
Well, you're like, I'm trying to get through this too.
40:10
It's like, I'm, I'm, you're the least I want to see.
40:13
Exactly.
40:14
And you do have, you know, I did have empathy for people around me because obviously they're
40:18
dealing with it as well in their own way, but really it's, it's me.
40:22
I am given this one life that has been amazing and I had an amazing childhood, but there's
40:28
also this kind of like ball of angst that I've been born with.
40:32
I've been born into the wrong body.
40:34
The progress is remarkable.
40:36
And I, do you know what?
40:37
I do feel content.
40:38
I want my dogs in the morning at like half six, seven o'clock.
40:41
What are they called again?
40:42
Georgian Delilah.
40:43
So cute.
40:44
And I go to the woods near my house and it's that, that, that then I feel content.
40:48
I think you feel content in moments of solitude and nature and nature and it's a forest
40:54
and it's beautiful and I grew up in the countryside and it's one of the reasons why I bought
40:58
a house where I've bought because the forest is on my doorstep.
41:03
I find that with the Chiswick Gardens.
41:05
When I go there and it's just there's birds and streams and trees and I just, I honestly
41:10
sometimes feel like I'm in crime like this is just so beautiful.
41:14
I actually found it felt like the other day I was just like walking through London and
41:17
everyone was like walking past and I felt like a Bridget Jones moment or like notting
41:21
out and I was just like all rugged up and the sun was shining and I was like I'm just,
41:25
I just love my life.
41:26
Oh, that's so good.
41:27
And that's it.
41:28
And then it slipped out of it.
41:29
It was like, that's where it goes.
41:30
And you have to take, and you have to take those moments and remember those moments.
41:35
Those are the things you should be writing down, not necessarily what you want, but what
41:40
you have.
41:41
Yeah.
41:42
We miss all of that because of the pressures of society, because of the pressures of
41:46
social media, because we're told, you know, write down what you want, believe, achieve,
41:51
whatever.
41:52
Sleeve.
41:53
I can't remember the expression.
41:55
What have we got now?
41:57
Walking over the bridge, having your Bridget Jones moment as a New Zealand woman in London,
42:01
amazing.
42:02
I sometimes think when I feel really, really happy, I wish I could bottle this up and have
42:07
a little sip when I'm feeling down, but when I do feel like that, I often will write
42:11
down how I'm feeling and to have that refer back to is really good because it's crazy
42:19
to think the extremities that you can feel in a human body, so much joy and so much despair
42:25
and how far away they can feel sometimes, but knowing that it is actually just a part of
42:30
being human to feel all of those things.
42:32
Yeah.
42:33
Two completely different heads on the same human being.
42:37
And it's like, which head is the universe going to choose for me today, this one?
42:42
Okay.
42:43
How do I change to the other head?
42:45
What do I do?
42:46
How do I get out of this?
42:48
I've just intrigued to know what kind of advice would you give, not your youngest self
42:53
because I hate that phrase, I always get asked, but like in terms of someone who was in
42:56
a position now that you were going through at 21 from a financial aspect and from a kind
43:02
of emotional aspect, what kind of advice would you give them?
43:06
From a financial aspect, just generally in life, work hard, nothing's for free, probably
43:14
the only person in the world that agreed with Kim Kardashian when she said people just
43:18
don't want to work, like I'm probably against everything that you guys believe what she
43:22
said.
43:23
But it's a lot of people don't want to work, but still have an expectation on life.
43:29
On a more emotional level, use the people in your life because they're there for a reason,
43:34
use them as a sounding board, open up to them because if they're right in your life,
43:41
they will not only give you the best advice they can, the biggest heart they can.
43:46
And if they're not right, then they'll leave.
43:49
Oh, I really think there might be a few people after hearing this conversation that want
43:54
to reach up to you directly.
43:55
Is that something that you find is it exhausting or are you open to people that I've picked
44:00
you?
44:01
Definitely open for people I've had in the past, like parents of children who are going
44:05
through a transition, 100% I'm open to.
44:08
Also, I do know an incredible charity that is run by a very dear friend of mine called
44:13
Not a Faze, which does such amazing things for the trans community.
44:18
It really is incredible, but yeah, 100%, like, you know, my heart and my mind is totally
44:24
open to people.
44:26
And if I can help in any way, of course, you know, I would have loved to have had someone
44:32
that I, you know, at 21, I could have just maybe messaged and said, listen, I need help
44:37
because the thoughts that are going through my head right now are that I don't want to
44:41
be here anymore.
44:42
Just please can we meet for a coffee or please can we just have a chat?
44:45
I would have paid all the money in the world for that.
44:49
Do then think so.
44:50
We've got one really quick game that we'd like to play with you before we finish.
44:52
It seems a bit like the sharing now, but I just would like to ask for all of those people
44:57
who are listening who might not know if there's someone in their life that is currently grappling
45:02
with the same thing that you were at 21.
45:05
How can we be more inclusive?
45:08
How can we speak in a way that's going to encourage people to feel like they can
45:11
talk to us.
45:12
How can we be better as a society or just individually?
45:17
What kind of small things would help?
45:18
I think like just I think it's just much better in this circumstance to speak as like
45:23
an individual.
45:24
I think that like really check yourself as a friend because we all have a lot going
45:29
on and some people are definitely more guilty of sucking the air rather than putting the
45:35
air into the room and it can be done through habit.
45:40
It's not necessarily like a malicious thing, but just that old adage of like, I do this
45:46
all of my friends.
45:47
She's got a really bad habit.
45:48
When I say to her, how are you?
45:49
She'll be like, how are you?
45:51
No.
45:52
And I'm like, no, I'm actually genuinely interested in how you are.
45:56
Yeah.
45:57
I've asked you a question and I need the answer and actually I'm going to put the, I'm
46:01
going to put how are you really at the end of that sentence because I want to like not
46:07
be British about this and be polite.
46:09
I actually want to know what's happened this week that has been your peak and what's
46:14
been your pit.
46:15
I do it.
46:16
The girls at work on a Friday, what's been the peak this week and what's been the pit?
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Because I think it's just making sure that if somebody is going through something, they
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know that there is that one person that asks, how are you really like and actually do
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know what there's nothing wrong with saying to your friends, listen.
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You do know on a very, on a much deeper level, I'm here for you, whatever.
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No judgment, whatever it might be.
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You checking on your boyfriend, come to me, are you like, you know, questioning your sexuality,
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come to me, are you questioning your gender, come to me, I am a safe space.
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I love that.
46:53
I might just check in on all the people I love.
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Yeah.
46:57
Yeah.
46:58
Okay.
46:59
We're just going to run this quick game.
47:00
Oh yeah.
47:01
Missing pieces.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And think about it, just quick fire.
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I'm really something with my money.
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Good.
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I learned how to invest my money from something.
47:12
Mistakes.
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I would never something my money.
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Land.
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My last big ticket item was winter jacket.
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If I could do it over, I would something with my money.
47:23
Make more.
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Yeah.
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Nice.
47:26
So good.
47:28
We just want to say thank you for your time and energy and love and being here to share
47:35
so much was done with us because it's been an absolute privilege.
47:40
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
47:42
These conversations are designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be
47:46
better with your money.
47:47
From saving, to investing, to talking to your friends about your salaries.
47:51
And if you liked what you heard, we would love it.
47:53
If you could hit subscribe button, please, or leave a review.
47:58
It'll only take five seconds and it would really make our week, our year, our month.
48:02
Okay.
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Lots of love.
48:04
See you soon.
48:05
Bye.