Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 769: Lessons Learned: Being a First-Time Writer/Director with Sarah Elizabeth Mintz

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IFH 769: Lessons Learned: Being a First-Time Writer/Director with Sarah Elizabeth Mintz · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFH podcast Network.
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  Speaker 2: For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Indie Film Huscle Podcast, Episode number seven
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: sixty nine. Do or do Not There is no try.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Yoda Broadcasting from the back alley and Hollywood. It's the
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  Speaker 2: Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: of the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
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  Speaker 1: episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise
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  Speaker 1: www dot filmbiz book dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Well, guys,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: today on the show we have writer director Sarah Elizabeth
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Mintz and Sarah's new film Good Girl Jane, is premiering
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: at this year's Tribeca Film Festival. Her journey of writing
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and directing her first feature is pretty remarkable, and she
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: has a plenty of shrapnel along the way that she
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  Speaker 1: tells us all about. She had the remarkable opportunity to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: assist Alejandro Rutu on the Revenant and the stories that
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: she told about what was going on behind the scenes
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: watching a master like that work. She was on the
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: set of the first season of True Detective, helping the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: director and creator there, and so so much more. It's
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: a fascinating conversation on not only how she got to
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  Speaker 1: her movie, but then also the making the insanity of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: making her film Good Girl Jane, and how she got
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  Speaker 1: it all off the ground and the writing process and
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  Speaker 1: everything in between. So, without any further ado, please enjoy
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  Speaker 1: my conversation with Sarah Elizabeth Mintz. I'd like to welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the show, Sarah Elizabeth mints Hewy you doing, Sarah.
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  Speaker 3: Good, Hi, Alex. Thank you so much for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you about your your new film,
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  Speaker 1: Good Girl Jane, and your your adventures in the film industry,
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  Speaker 1: which have have been You've got some shrapnel along the way.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, sure. This is not my first prodo. It
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  Speaker 3: is my first feature that I've written and directed.
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  Speaker 1: But you've been, but you've been, You've been in some
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: battlegrounds over the year, So we're going to get into that.
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  Speaker 1: So before we get started, how did you and why
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: God screen it? Did you want to get into this
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  Speaker 1: insanity called the film industry.
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  Speaker 3: Just jumping right in right. So it's like I don't
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  Speaker 3: know if I really had a choice in the matter exactly.
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  Speaker 3: Actually I thought I just loved movies. And when I
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  Speaker 3: was in high school, I would, you know, do the
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: thing where you like buy a PG to get and
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: sneak into the movies. I think it was like two
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: thousand and two, two thousand and three I really started
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: sneaking into all the movies. I remember. I was it
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: was like the Dreamers came out. It's called Berluci, Like
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  Speaker 3: that's so cool. It's like thirteen and ghost World and
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: like Headwig and The Angry and like I was, I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: was a teenager, and I was like, I would have
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: spent all my time watching like the weird movies that
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: that are at the Lanley, which was like the art
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: house lead by my house. And so at first I
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  Speaker 3: just thought I was like a ban and I was
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  Speaker 3: kind of shy. I was pretty shy, actually, So I
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  Speaker 3: spent all my time watching movies like all night, and
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  Speaker 3: I didn't sleep and would go to class and street
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  Speaker 3: super tired. But I was like, well, I spent all
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  Speaker 3: night hanging with my friends, you know, on the screen.
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  Speaker 3: So I think that I thought I would shipping. And
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  Speaker 3: I also didn't really know that women directed, like there
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: were very there were very few female directors that I
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  Speaker 3: was aware of. I was aware of like Captain Bigelow
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: and Sophia Coppola, and truly I think that was it.
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  Speaker 3: Like Luckily later I was like, oh, and I don't know,
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: like slowly people started trickling in, but I didn't know
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  Speaker 3: that was an option at all. I did grow up
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: in la I did grow up, you know, around people
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  Speaker 3: that wanted to act, or like people's parents were in Hollywood,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: but my family wasn't at.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: All and in the film business at all, in.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: The film business at all. No, my mom's a therapist.
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  Speaker 3: My dad was. He was in entertainment. He was a
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: talent manager for musicians, but not.
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  Speaker 1: Different different world but different crazy but similar worlds, different crazy,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: but similar worlds.
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  Speaker 3: Definitely crazy. I was around the crazy, but not quite
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: the film crazy. And then I went to college. I
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: went to UW Madison for a year and a half
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  Speaker 3: and I studied Russian language and political science. And I
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: woke up one morning sophomore year and I was taking
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: all film classes. It like happened really still sort of
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: overnight and I was like, I'm not gonna be able
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  Speaker 3: to graduate, Like I'm not, this isn't my picture. I
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: can't like figure this out. So I transferred to n
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: y U. And once I was that n Yu, I
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  Speaker 3: was like, okay, I'm gonna direct. But it was it
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  Speaker 3: didn't happen overnight. I didn't feel like it was an
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  Speaker 3: active choice in that. It just sort of like it
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  Speaker 3: was always where I was headed.
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  Speaker 1: It was you were being pulled into that, into that world,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: regardless of whether you want it. It was like a vortex,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: like a black hole. Yeah, it's just sucking you in.
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  Speaker 3: That.
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  Speaker 1: That is the feeling that many filmmakers have. It's just
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: like I worked in a video store back in the day,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: so I was, you know, surrounded by and then one
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: day I said what am.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: I going to read me?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: And I just looked. I said, I guess I'm gonna
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: direct movies. And that's literally how I got my start
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: as well. It's just something that and then once you're in,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: once you get bitten by that bug. I call it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the beautiful illness, you can't get rid of it. You
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: can't get rid of this feeling of wanting to as
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: much as you might want to leave.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so hard to get rid of this. You're
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: tying up. Please give me a call. You now have
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: my number.
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  Speaker 1: No, it's true, And I've talked to I mean, I've
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: talked to so many filmmakers over the years, and everyone
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: suffers from the same illness, all of us. All of
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: us suffer the same thing, and there's no way out,
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  Speaker 1: and many of us have tried to leave, and many
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: of us wanted to leave. I've tried to leave. I've
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: been doing this almost thirty years now, and I've wanted
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: to leave multiple times because it's just so hard. It's
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: just so brutally hard over the years, and it's that
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  Speaker 1: insanity that keeps you going, that makes you think that
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, I can make this happen. Yeah, I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: could get the financing. Yeah I could cast that actor. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I can get it to this festivals.
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  Speaker 3: It's insane, it really is. And I'm not trying to
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  Speaker 3: pivot prematurely, but the movie that The Good Girl Jane is,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: it tackles substance bes and drug addiction, and I definitely
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  Speaker 3: think there's a lot of that in pursuing a career
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  Speaker 3: like this, Like not sort of, I mean the highs
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  Speaker 3: and lows. It's just it really mirrors, like like any addiction,
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  Speaker 3: it really does.
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  Speaker 1: It's not you're not wrong, You're not wrong. I mean,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have been around the block a couple
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: more times than you have, but I've seen it as
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: well with young and old. It is that kind of
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: addiction to it. You just have to kind of keep going.
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  Speaker 1: You wake up in the morning thinking about it, you
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: go to sleep at night thinking about it. It is.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: It is. It's all encompassy. But that is art. That
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  Speaker 1: is an artist's life, and for better or worse, that's
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  Speaker 1: why we were put here. We have to we have
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  Speaker 1: to walk this. We have to walk this path without question. Now,
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  Speaker 1: was you were talking about a few films. Was there
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  Speaker 1: a movie that specifically let your fuse?
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  Speaker 3: Hmmm, some of those movies that I listed earlier, for sure,
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  Speaker 3: you know each of my my time, bien, I probably
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  Speaker 3: that's probably the movie that I watched like on a
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  Speaker 3: loop freshman year, like when I was like fourteen fifteen.
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  Speaker 3: Just be the youthful energy and like that, the veritype
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: the verite vibe in that film that was new to me.
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  Speaker 3: I hadn't really seen anything like that before. It was
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  Speaker 3: also sexy, and I was like, you know, a teenager.
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  Speaker 3: I just loved that movie so much and that yeah,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: probably that one, but also Hedwig and the Angry And
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  Speaker 3: I had to say that movie really did change my
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  Speaker 3: life because it was the first time that I saw
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a film where it felt like anything was possible, like
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: you can tell any vulnerable story you want, like there
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: are no restrictions, just just tell your truth, like get
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: out there. And that that movie changed my life. Like
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: John Camri Mitchell was my favorite director for a long time,
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  Speaker 3: and I was when I was younger because of his
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: bravery and that's inspiring to me.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show. Oh no, there's no question.
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  Speaker 1: Once you see that movie, you go yeah, oh yeah,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: you can tell any story, to do anything anything. This
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: is if this has been if this has been put
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: into the world, the door has been swung wide open.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Anyone can walk through. It's amazing.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Absolutely so, even if it's not, even if that film
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: didn't look exactly like the films I knew I wanted
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: to make it, Yeah, it changed my whole life. It
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, you could do anything.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So while you were at NYU. You made a short
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: film called Transit and it starred a young Dakota Johnson,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: who was still a seasoned actor at that point. She
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: she she hadn't hit fifth What is it that the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: gray fifty Gray?
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Yes? No, no, she was on Ben and Kate, which
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: was a Fox sitcom at.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The time, right, But she was a working actress. So
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: you know, for a young director like yourself at the time,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: what was it like working with a seasoned actor? How
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: did you approach that process? Because I know a lot
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of filmmakers, young filmmakers listening that they get an opportunity
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to work with a seasoned actor. And I remember when
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I most of the actors I worked with growing up
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: were not seasons. They were young kids like me trying
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to make it happen. But when you get in a
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: room or get on a set with a real a
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: real actor who's got some jobs, when you got some chops,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: it can be interminating with a filmmaker, or it could
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: be exhilarating. How was it for you and how did
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: you approach working with her?
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I have to be completely honest, So I made
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: that film like about a decade ago, and this is
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: really the first conversation. This is the first press I've
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: ever done for it is that film. It did jump
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: start my career in a lot of ways. And I
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: did work with you know, some really talented actress, Dakota included.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: I did that movie with her, and that was like
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: gigantic for me. But it didn't do a big festival run,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: and I didn't do a big press tour, So it's
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: like whoa okay, transit like takes that back working with
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: the Coda. I mean, so I went to high school
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: with the Coda, and and we were we were close,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: and I knew her and her family, and she had
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: seen me go through a lot of the coming age
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: that I was coming of age that I was trying
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: to like capture in that film and You're and she
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: was one of the only actresses that I knew that
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I that I could ask to do it. Like I
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: was like, okay, this is a post friend of mine.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: She is clearly like I had a hunch about her,
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: you know, when I was little she wanted to act,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, this person is so talented
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: and they're going to act, And like I got to
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: get in there and work with her and we just
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: cared about each other. We crafted a story that was
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: again very personal, and it was it was a little
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: intimidating even like asking her to do it, even though
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: we were friendly, because I remember I took her to
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: the Greenwich Hotel and I had like four dollars to
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: my name. I drew the Greenish Hotel and I was like,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: let's get, you know, like a drink. And and even
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: just in that meeting, I remember thinking to myself, like
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: she's been in so many more of these meetings than
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: I have. And I was really trying to put like
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: some shoulder pads on and like pitch the film to
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: her in a professional way and anyway. Grateful to her.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: She decided to do it me. She trusted me, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: it was a really bruteful like that movie even though
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: you know, it's definitely a student film and it's not
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: like my find it's work yet sure it's really it's
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: something that I'm very proud of, and I'm proud of
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: what she gave in that film. And it was it
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: was a really it was very it was dramatic and
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: personal for her too, like there was a lot of
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: stuff that I think she hadn't quite put on screen
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: yet at the time, and it was moving to dig
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: that deep with her into that now.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to bring that up because so many filmmakers,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: you know, it's all great and dandy when you're when
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: you're making getting your net Tribeca and your Sundance, but
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to go back to those first days, you know, working
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: on those first short films, that's where a lot of
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: these lessons the foundation, the bricks of the foundation are
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: starting to be poored, or the cement is starting to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: be poored in that foundation during these early short films.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And getting an opportunity to work with the coda someone
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: like of her caliber, of her talent is a blessing
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and also I'm sure a learning experience as a director.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: It absolutely was, And I really I did study her
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: on that set because she grew up on set and
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: I did it and her and you know, she was
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: always on time, she was always so friendly to the
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: cast and crew, really collaborative. But it was also just
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: like I felt like I really need to I keep
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: saying this, but like I really need to do my
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: homework in order to like have conversation with her on set.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I couldn't just weigh it because she had done the
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: homework and I did my first I directed my first
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: love scene on that short. It was like very quick
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: and it wasn't really graphic, but I had to really
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: make a safe space and a safe set for everyone.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And it's actually I worked with the same cinematographer on
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that short as I did on Good Girl Jay in
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the Future.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Nice. So you brought so, you brought them along, you
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: brought everyone.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that idea of safety.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, no, absolutely, I mean anytime I've ever
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: had to shoot a love scene, it is horrible. It's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: horrible for everybody involved. It's not sexy at all. It's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: just about trying to keep a safe space and for
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the actors. And but it's just like it's uncomfortable. Like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: as a director, you're like, all right, can you caress
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the back of the neck more here, Like it's just weird.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: It's a weird, unsexy, awkward scenario to do.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I had no idea. And I
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: remember both actors I was working in that see had
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: done love skins prior and they were definitely like, oh,
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: like they knew how it went. But I really had
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: to go in there and be like Okay, I need
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: to choreograph this ahead of time and be very clear
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: on what I need so that they're not just like
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: uh uh you know, and you're right, it's not really
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: a sexy time. The whole point is just that you
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: need to make sure these people feel comfortable and safe
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: and really be clear about what it is that you want.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: And now we have these you know, intimacy coordinators that
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: are on all the stuffs. And got to say that's profoundly.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Helpful, very very profoundly with the awkwardness with the yes,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: absolutely just having a middle person to just kind of
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: talk to somebody and go, please help, I don't know
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: what do I do here.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Now? Yeah.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Also, but.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: You have to make sure that doesn't look like they're
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: you know, playing twister, like the angles really matter and
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: these people helped to give you that insight. Sorry, that's
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: not very important, but no, funny it is.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: It's funny. It's kind of the lunacy of the carnival
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that is filmmaking. You know, we are carnies. We're just carnies.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You know, that's all without question. Now, you you had
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you've had the opportunity to work with some very interesting
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: people over the years as you were coming up as
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: a director, specifically, you got to assist Alejandro Rutu on
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the Revenant. What the hell was that like? Because all
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I've heard is I've heard I've worked with I've talked
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to some people who worked on the movie. I've seen
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: the documentary, I've heard stories. It was an insanity from
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: what I heard on set, in a good way, but
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: just the nature of the kind of storytelling. You were
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: there assisting him at that part. Were you on set?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Did you were you? Did you watch what was going on?
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: What did you learn? And tell me? Tell me everything?
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Wow? So I was on that job in total, I
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: think like three months. So I was not there as
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: long as any anyone else. I like, I came in
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: near the end. There was quite a there were quite
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: a few assistants. There was a large team of thems.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Some had, you know, come on earlier and left, and
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I had. I got that job because I in high
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: school interned at anonymous content for Steve Golan and he
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: he was producing The Revenant, and he and I had
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: stayed in touch. He'd really been a mentor to me
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: for a long time, and and he thought it would
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: be good for that job. Given how tricky it seemed
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: like it was going. And so I flew out there
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: and I was Calgary, So yes, I was on set.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: I was in Calgary during all of those like crazy
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: snowstorms we've seen in the pictures that we've heard about.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: And I had directed it. I sorry, I had assisted
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: a few directors prior to that, so I did kind
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: of know the drill. But this was a unique experience
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: for sure. It was I had to wear essentially like
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: a space suit on set. It was that cold I had.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: I remember just buying out the I landed, and then
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: I had to get to set in the morning, and
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I didn't know how I could get to set and
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: be on set, like in the clothing I brought, I
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: didn't have like a space suit yet. So I remember
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: showing up that I just like looked like a Dodo,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: you know, like I was like wearing everything I owned,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: and everyone else just looked like they really had it
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: down and I just didn't have it down yet. And
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I'm carrying like all andros lunch and like all his bags,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: and I'm I just like didn't look cool, and I
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: like we didn't look ready.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word, from our sponsor
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: So it took me a minute to kind of get
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: into the swing of things. But but I got to
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: see Chievo do all those wonders, and I got to
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: che natural light, you know, shooting a natural light. The
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: days shooting very short, very little light, very because of
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: the winter, and it's just like the conditions. We overly
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: only had a few hours to shoot each day, and
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: it would take like two hours to get to the set.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: So it was it was a different type of thing
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: than I'd ever done. It was also the biggest movie
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I'd ever worked on. It was like two hundred million dollars.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I have no idea. It was hundreds of millions of
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: dollars and the most stress I've ever seen, like for
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: I mean the producer. I saw some producers like actually
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: just go gray, like in front of us, like you know,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: I sure like I probably aged private in just that
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: short a long time. But it was also truly inspiring,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: you know, so ambitious, but really it's an art film
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and it's it's gigantic, and that's rare or rare breed.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: It's insane insane. Did you what was like the biggest
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: lesson you learned watching him direct. Did you get a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: chance to watch him direct?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would say that's probably about all of
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: the directors that I've worked for, but I mean specifically
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: all just an uncompromising creative vision like there. I mean
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: you've probably heard there was a really big challenge. There
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: wasn't enough snow on the ground for a lot of
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: the towards the end of shooting, wasn't enough snow on
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: the ground, And it wasn't like, Okay, you know, well,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: we'll create some fake snow, put it on the ground
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: and like that's that. You know, the texture of the
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: snow and the way it read on camera, Like if
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: that wasn't as authentic to guess possible, if that wasn't
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: reading correctly, like we would you know, we flew somewhere else.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Simple as that.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just apply to health.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: And it's not. And by the way, it's not just
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: like you know, you your DP and a couple of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: other people on the crew. You're talking about one hundred
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: people plus plus all the gear in the most insane
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: environment ever trying to try to make I mean, yeah,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Leo almost died for God's sakes.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I I also remember seeing all the
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: mockups of that horse carcass and and just the artistry
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: in There's. Yeah, so many people building such a universe,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: and I had I just had never been on a
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: set like that, Like it was really studying the amount
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: of crafts people and the amount of talent that was
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: that was on.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: That same same kind of set as Good Girl Jane, right, obviously,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: just you know, hundreds of people on set.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and shooting for months on end, months on.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: If you didn't like the way the garbage was landing
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: in the back alley, you would just go to an rally.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely, No, I would personally move the garbage.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: It's so fun when you're when you have the ability
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: or the opportunity to be on a set like that,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: it's just so remarkable because you're right, it's an art
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: film at a level then no one gets to play
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: in that's a that's a that's a sandbox that a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: handful of directors in the world get to play in,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: literally a handful of directors in.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: The world, like let's go Like I yeah, I mean
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: it was that was so cool because I had really,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I had worked on art house films like that's what
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I had done for the most part, and this was
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: that it was just gigant. Yeah, it was just on
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: such a bigger scale, and you know, it's like, yeah,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I'm working with one you know, this is a producer
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: that does big movies like yeah, but yeah, but like
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: but also like Michelle Gonere films, and it's so it
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: was it was a really unique experience. And it is
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: the last movie I assisted on, so I really just
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: like I was like, Okay, I've seen it all, steeve
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: it all. There's nothing more that can be seen.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I need to move on now. This is this is
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the next this is the next step. No, it's it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty remarkable. Now, how did Good Girl Jane
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: come to life?
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Like from my dad from like day one?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean I'm assuming, I'm assuming they just threw
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: money at you, right, because this is obviously Oh yeah.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: I went one morning and I was like, I'm going
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: to make it. I'm going to make a movie. I
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: haven't read one before, and I'm gonna just gonna it's
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: gonna find a million bucks. And then oh and there it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Is right right, and is like go ahead, just showed
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: up right, And then you could just start working it
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the next day.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's what happened. And that's the story.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: And that's the story, and that's the story. I'm sticking to, yes, exactly.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: So so I'm talking to you. I'm in uh this
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: living room for this apartment that I'm stubbling, and it's
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: I'm in I'm in Brooklyn. And I started this whole
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: process in Brooklyn seven years ago. Sorry, in Manhattan seven
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: years ago. So I I was like, I said, assistant directors.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: And I finished the Remnant and I was like, Okay,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I'm going to write. I'm going to write a movie.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: What do I know? You know that's that's they tell
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: you to start there. I heard that, So it's all
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I had one option. And I was like, so I
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: sit down and I start writing, and I'm in living
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: in New York, and I'm like, oh, I can't. I
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: can't actually write this without going home. It like took
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: place in LA. It's like about my childhood. I have
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: to go home. So I moved to LA. I didn't
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: want to live in LA. I wanted to live in
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: New York. But I moved to LA. And I wrote
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: the whole thing in my mom's backyard in like a
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: little truly like a like storage closet like thing in
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: her backyard. And I wrote it and then I took
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: me a while, and then I sent it to a
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: bunch of like labs and screenwriting competitions and whatnot, and
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: got a bunch of rejections. Like how it goes. Nobody
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: wanted it, but people liked it. I think. I was like, okay,
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not making any progress, but it's not but I
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: can write a little. And then and I was like, okay,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: the script needs to be better, Like how do I
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: make it better? And yeah, I kept redrafting and I
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: kept standing up to and finally, and it's funny because
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: like it wasn't getting in anywhere. But then it got
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: into the sun Dance of Writers Intensive and I was like, okay,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: but it's going to get in nowhere and then get
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: in here like I'll take it, you know, let's take it.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: So I had a feature script. I brought it there.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: It was called Junk Food Diary at the time. It
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: was like very kind of like punchy and like completely different.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I had voiceover like top to bottom, and I got
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: a bunch of notes from the Sundance advisors and I
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: threw out the script entirely, and they gave me a
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: little bit of grant money for being the program and
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I went and made that short film, the proof Concept
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: short film, and I guess we're like three years in
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: at this point. I make the short film. I partner
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: to make the short with this producer and Lauren Pratt.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: It was her first movie, but I had met her
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: while I was assisting directors, and I was like, I
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: think she's going to be a killer, pretty strong. I'm
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: a partner with this girl, and so we partnered together.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: She helped me develop the project into the short and
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: then much bigger. And then Jake Sayner, who shot Transit
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: with me, I brought him on to the short. And
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: then after the short was made again still same as Transit,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: it got me some attention, like I got a manager
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: off of it, and it played brance but it had
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: no life on the festival circuit, Like I would get
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: emails back from programmers like good job, Like it didn't
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: play anywhere.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: The nicest.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Totally, Like people were engaging to tell me that it
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: was really like affecting or like it really shook them
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: or something, and I'm like, nobody's playing this thing, like
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: literally nobody's playing it. So although no, Budge put it
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: in like a little in like a showcase in Brooklyn,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: and I remember that was the fun thing. So it's like, okay,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: it's playing in the theater like it's I got it up,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: but took the short film to stun dance with just
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: like brought it with me, they say in my back back,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: you know, and Lauren and Jake and I we we
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: paired with sales agency at the time, and they put
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: us on a bunch of like speed dating basically with financiers.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: And one of the financiers just the money.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: So backup, the speed dating with financers, I've never heard
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: of this. Where can I sign up? Where's the speed
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: dating for finanswers? I've heard of? This is ok what
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: is that?
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: It's a really it's a really really good question. Well
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: back up two steps. One is that sinance put me
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: in one other program which is called like the Forgive Me.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: It's like the women in Film Strategy and financing and something.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: And so they put me into that program with my producer.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: And that was the first financier speed data we did.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: So we did too. This we did too. And this
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: first one it was, I mean, Lauren and I prepared
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: like as if it was the bar. It was instand.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: That sounds probably like really crazy of me to say,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: but it's we studied for so long. We had this
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: whole pitch memorized. We were like it was a whole thing,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: it was a whole show that we were. So we
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: went and we pitched a bunch of people and we
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: got a bunch of meetings. But we didn't get the money,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: but we did take a bunch of meetings, a bunch
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: of places because of it, and we got sort of
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: out of that a sales agent and that sales agent,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: we Lauren and Jake and I the cinema and the
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: producer and I we were like, we're gonna go to
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: and so we want to make this. We want to
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: get this movie put together. And the sales data was like, okay,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: we know some financiers will set you on like two
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: days and meetings. And that was what the speeding Like.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. I've never heard of it called investors speed dating.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: That is, I probably shouldn't call it that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Then, but it's fantastic. It's it's actually awesome. I've never
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: heard of it that way, and it should be there
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: should be more of it. I think we should all
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: have access to speed dating for investors. I think that
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: would be a great company.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and it's not to say that, like again,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: at this point, I'm what it's like four years in, Like, it's.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Not so overnight. So overnight is what you're saying. Overnight?
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, overnight. But once we sat down with Astute Films,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: which is the company that ended up financing the film.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: We sat down I think on day two of the meetings,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and I pushed them the movie and Lauren and I
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: were talking about it and they just agreed to finance
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: it within a few moments of talking. Really yeah, And
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: I thought they were kidding. I thought they were kidding,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: and I thought I was gonna like be physically ill
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: because I was so I was like, I don't want
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: to get excited, you know, I didn't want And I
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: was like, no, I only hear nos this like can't
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: actually be real. And I remember they took us. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: met with Dominique someone who are like two of the
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: producers over there, and they needed to take us to
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Fred Bernstein, who is the one that was gonna like
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: sign the check. And they're like, yeah, we're going to
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: go over to talk to Fred. I was like I
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: hadn't like I just hadn't prepare. I didn't know who
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: this person was. I was so nervous. I was like
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: pinching myself, like as I was walking over there, like please,
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: just don't like fall over. Just stupid. Anyway, it was
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: totally fine. He he wanted to make a movie too.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: It's fascinating that we as filmmakers constantly are getting nose
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: no ninety nine percent of the time get nos.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Most knows the most.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I mean other than actors. The actors get more nose
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: than filmmakers do.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: That's the true.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: That's a fair that's a fair statement. That's a fair statement.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: But in the just in the whole process of filmmaking,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: there's nose all the time. No no, no no, when
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: someone says yes. And then the way that you just
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: stated it like so quickly, so like oh yeah, let's
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: just let's go ahead, and you just this can't.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: This was absolutely not absolutely not like now I'm now
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I'm skeptical of you.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: You know, I was pitching myself to you. But now
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that you actually like me and want to make my project,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I don't trust you.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: And it's not because it's like I knew I was
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: going to make this movie, because I was gonna keep
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: trying to make it till I actually die, you know.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to make this movie. I'm
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: going to figure it out. But but it was just, yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: I was getting a little numb from the at that.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Moment and at that point, and you're at this point
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: four years in at least, yeah, at least four years
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: in at this point. Now, one thing about this project
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: that when I was when I was pitched to me,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: it was just based on true life events. So I've
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: seen the movie, and I was telling you earlier, I'm like,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I hope it was very loosely based on real life events,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: because it's a pretty it's a heavy film. It's a
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: heavy film, and it was based on true events of
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: your own life. So how much of that and how
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: much did you want want to expose about your own
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: life in your storytelling. I've done something similar. I wrote
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a book about a horrible experience I had with making
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: a movie for the Mafia when I was twenty six
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and that's a whole other tiny writing throughout your own life. Yeah,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: so like you find like for me, I always found
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: the like I got to put it all in. I
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: can't hide anything, and I just let it all out
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and let it hit where it hits, because if I
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: start editing it, it's just it becomes authentic. So what
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: how was your experience with it?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tweak the language slightly and that it is
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: inspired by my freshman year in high school essentially, But
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: so I'm sorry that was second. I there are two
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: very loude dogs here that I'm hiding from everybody. So
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: my freshman year in high school, I did fall in
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: love with the drug dealer and I was addicted to meth,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: and I did have like this sort of trajectory that
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: we see happen in this film. But I it was
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: it was not too challenging to fictionalize the narrative really
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: because even though there's you know, many many drafts in
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: this film, but it was like, okay, well how can
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: I What am I trying to say with this film?
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: What I'm trying to do is kind of like what
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: I was talking about earlier with them, like in two
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: thousand and two when I was speaking of all those movies,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to offer that that kind of that
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: feeling of being seen. I wanted to offer that to
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: the Janes out there, if there are any, because I
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: was one of them. And so I was like, Okay,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: it's not so much about like what is the essence
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: of my experience? Is it like the monotony of the
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: day to day or is it the feelings of isolation
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: and the feeling of a lack of intimacy and the
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: loneliness and the shame and the desperation, Like those are
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: the things really that are the truth. And so the people,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: like the characters that you see in the film, like
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: they're definitely amalgamations of people that I was around that year.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: But it's all kind of like like a new puzzle
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: that like this this stuff that's that's really Jane is
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: like those those struggles and that love story. Is it
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: chocks pretty closely.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Very very I mean to applause for being so honest
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: and authentic with your storytelling. And I think, honestly that's
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: probably why I got the attention to God is because
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: there is authenticity behind it, and you know from someone
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: who's been in the business for a bit. You start
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: getting jaded by stories, by movies, by scripts you read.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: But when you find something that is authentic, it pops.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: For whatever reason. It's you know, you want to get
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: metaphysical on it. The energy coming off the screen, off
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: the pages. There's something about it that you just there's
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: something there. And I saw that in the film. I
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: was like, there's something here. I just was like, praying, God,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I hope it wasn't all this, God bless her.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, like it's the timeline of the film
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: is probably is about a year, and this moment in
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: my life was probably it was a little longer than that.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: So everything's kind of condensed, of course.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, condensed. You know, I'm alive.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: no question about it. Now, as a director, we all
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: go through this. We all understand the insanity that I set,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: especially your first movie is even more insane. Uh. And
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just like I said, we didn't have revenant money,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: so there wasn't endless somehow, not quite. We didn't have
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: craft revenance, craft service budget. We didn't even have their
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: travel budget.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Uh, a plane somewhere else there.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Where's there snow Antarctica, let's go go so so, uh,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: there's always that one day, if not every day, but
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: there's generally one day that's even more extreme that you
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: feel like the entire world's coming down crashing around you,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: that you're going to lose the light, you can lose
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: your camera, financing drops, the actor can show up or whatever.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: There's that one day. What was that one day for you?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: And how did you overcome it? So we had two Okay.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: First one is so so I filmed this so this
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: movie shot over the course of the year. We show
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: we started shooting. I'm going to mess this data. But
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: it was like March third, twenty which is like the
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: best week in the.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: History absolute to shoot films. Absolutely is the best time
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: to start a movie.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Like so like seven years into this process,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: we like get greenlit, I like hones set, you know,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: ten days in the film was supposed to be twenty
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: days shoot already, like very you know, ten days in.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show, and.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: They're like whispers of an issue like a virus, and
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: we go home after Friday I think it was like Friday,
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: maybe Friday the thirteenth March obviously, Yeah, and I go
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: home anyway, wake up on Saturday, and they're like, we're
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: gonna We're gonna shut down, right, And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: this makes sense. We're gonna shut down. Yeah, Like that
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: makes sense totally. That tracks with the struggle of all
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: of this, and like, let's do it. I mean, we
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: had to keep everyone safe, but like, of course that
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: was the choice we're gonna make. But it was crazy
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: and it felt like we might not come back up. Definitely. Right.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: No, I've had, by the way, I've had multiple filmmakers
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: on all levels of budgets come on the show that
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: started in March April May, and half the movie was
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: made and then it's gone and they just like, I
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if and a year later they come back.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: How long did it take you to come back?
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: We started shooting the second round of production March third,
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty one.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: So literally a whole year, a whole year of you
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: sitting on half your movie. Yeah, and I'm assuming you're
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: editing maybe some scenes, maybe you're rewriting some of the script,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you're reworking stuff. That's all you could do. But as
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: a filmmaker, psychologically, I can't even imagine just the brutality
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: of that year for you.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of compartmentalizing, like a lot of what
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: is it like cognitive distance. I was just like, we're
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: going back and denial. Now, it's denial, That's what it is.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: I was in denial. I was just like planning my
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: return and I yes, I was editing the film. I
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: was shot listing with Jake constantly, constantly. We reworked a
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: lot of shots. I were at the end of the film.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: I was texting with my actors being like we're good,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: you know, like.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I'm still here, We're making this, still here.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: And I was like, don't get a face tattoo. Literally,
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: that's a lot of what I was doing. I was
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: just because I had like, you know, ten twenty year
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: olds that I was.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Like rab for a year, like hurting wet cats. Like
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: hurting wet cats.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a task, Like yeah.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: So that was the first thing. So that was the
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: first thing. What was the second day?
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I read the second day. So then the
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: second day and you've seen the film, so there are
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: a bunch of shots in a car. The whole half
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: the third film is the car, but there's there's some
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: shots in the car that were process trailer shots and man,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: I gotta find you some stozans and them too. But
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: we had like Revenant style day one day, like it
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: was a massive rigging team and Jake was strapped to
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: the top of the vehicle. We had like six cop
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: cars circling. We had we were on like I don't know,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: it was six Sam Sente or Wheelshore, like a thoroughfare
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: in La with like six kids in the car, and
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: we and the rigging took so long. We have like
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: an hour to hour to get all the shots that
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: I needed.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: It takes nine hours to rig in an hour to shoot.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: And then there was a lightning storm of course, and
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: so my ad came out to me like sweetest, sweetest man.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: I was just like insurance day, like go home, We
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: go home, right, and of course, like we're not going
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: to shoot anything. If it's a process reiler is metal,
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: like it's all metal.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: It's known to China Dinna.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So we had to track the weather like to
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: the second, get people in the car shoot for you know,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: two minutes get them out of the car, wait till
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: the rain stops, get them back in the car, and
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: we already didn't have enough time. That was a day
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: where I was like, h.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't think this is going to go. I
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: don't think I'm gonna make it. Yeah, but you made
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it through. And the thing that's the thing with these
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: kind of things is generally speaking, it works out in
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: some way, shape or form. But it definitely didn't work
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: out the way you wanted it to.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Works out better, It works out better.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: It always does. It always does. It's just so weird,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: but it always when things happen, I just I now
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: just go, okay, this is obviously where the universe wants
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to take us right now. Yes, let's see what it's true.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: It's woo wu, but it's true. Like there's so many
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: we like when we shut down, we had one false start.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: We tried to put the production back together and I
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: got a call from our lead actors team and they
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: were like, he just got booked for six months on
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: a job in I don't remember where. It was like
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: in Europe, and I was like, okay, well so never
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: getting him back. You know, it's like there's just there
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: have been so many, so many times where I've thought, Okay,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: this is the worst day ever, this is the worst
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: case scenario, like shutting down for a year, and you
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: know what, it really benefited the movie. It really did.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: It's a painful way of doing It's a painful way
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: of doing it, but it does. It does do it
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: absolutely every time there's ever been a complete disaster, and
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: anything I've ever done, it generally works out better. Generally
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: almost always works out better. Now, after this whole experience,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you've You've made your movie, now you've You've been around
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the block, You've been on The Revenant and on True
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Detective and all these other all this stuff that you've
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: done over the last decade. At this point, is there
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: something you wish someone would have told you at the
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: beginning of this journey?
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Hmmm, Well, I wish someone had told me sooner that
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: women can have this job. I didn't. I did a
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: lot of time thinking that because I was an introvert.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: And I say that like in a very little way.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: People say that all the time, but I just like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not a very social person. I'm very shy. I
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: was a like I mean, you'll see the movie and
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: it's like I was Jane. I was like really had
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: a hood on like most but I was like, okay,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: that person can still have this job. I did not
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: know that. And obviously someone can't give you permission to
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: like live your destiny, like no one need to do yourression.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: But I wish i'd see, you know what, it's not
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: how much I wish someone had told me this is changing,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: But I wish i'd seen women directing, seen female directors,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: dean directors that didn't all just look like one ding
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: and that would have changed the game a little sooner
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: for me.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I was lucky enough that I'm a Latino man, and
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I had not seen any Latino directors grown up. This
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: is there was just I just didn't know anyone.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: Where are they?
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Where are they? And then all of a sudden, Robert
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Rodriguez showed up. It's El Mariacci showed up the year
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: that I was in high school thinking about being a director,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: and I said, oh, oh, there's there's the one. Dude.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: He did it, and he did it in an insane way. Okay,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: this can be done. So you do need you need
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to see, you need to see other people like yourself
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: doing what you were doing just to give you the
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: confidence to go. If they could do it, then I
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: have a shot to do it as well. And and
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: that is so so important to be represented out in
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the world. And then sometimes you see these directors who
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: who were just breaking down doors to get to be
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the first to do something. Is is so what's the word?
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: So amazing that they were able to do that and
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: have the grit and the hustle to be able to
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: do that when they didn't have anyone at all. But
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent now. And this
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: is coming out on Tribeca, right. You got into Tribecca
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: and that was what was that phone called? Like?
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Uh so it was an email and it was it
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: was really funny. I remember what. Okay, So we got
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: an email from them again after you know, some rejections,
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: get an email from them, and they asked if we
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: were still available for a world premiere. They hadn't like off,
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: They're like it used to but this was a very
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: long time ago. It was like it was in December.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: I was like not thinking about this festival yet, it
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: was so far away. And we did an email and
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: they're like, is goodwill Jane still available? And so I
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: talked to my producers and I was like, yeah, we're
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: so liable. And then I had, like I said, I'd
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: been in the sentance intensive. So I spoke with the
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: lab people at sn Dance and I was like, you know,
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: I think like Trebeca might want this film, and we
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: were just like talking to them about the festival run.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: The lad people are different from the festival. They just
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: sort of like they just give advice and they're just
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: like really the loveliest Anyway. I was on a call
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: with them just being like help me, guide me, like
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: how does this work? And my producer called me and
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: was like, actually, we got in and we're going, you know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: like we just got invited. I mean she didn't say
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: we're going, but she was like we just got officially invited,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: and like.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Congrats, we'll be right back after a wh from our
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: sponsor and now back to the show.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: This has happened, and this is actually happening. They're not
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: just like a little interested. I think what I was
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: asking the sentience people is I was like, how do
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: I convince them to take me or like well, and
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: they were just like if they reached out to you,
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: they like it. You know, like yeah, And I was like, oh,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: like do they mean it? I'm just clearly a little skeptical.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: I was like, do they mean it? Is this real?
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: But know that they yeah, the email that they offered
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: us the spot, and then the second I spoke with
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: the programmers, I was it's just like it changed everything.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: They they are the perfect home for this movie. Like
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: New York is the perfect home for this movie. Festival
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: is the perfect home for this movie. Uh, this is
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: my favorite city in the world. Like they're my whole
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: family can come to this screening. My producers only can
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: come to the screening. But like a lot of the
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: castlet's here. It's just it ended up just like Pery.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: It's one of those divine things that we were talking
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: about before, Like I didn't know what the future was
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: going to look like this movie or where it was
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: going to play, and I knew what it really needed
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: to play somewhere, and then it's playing in the right place.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Well, I'm gonna ask a few
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: questions to ask all of my guests. What advice would
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Well, if you can do anything else, then you're probably
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: trying to do the wrong thing. Like if you're like
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I want to make movies and if it doesn't work
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: out in a few years, like I'll go do like
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: social media direction or so I don't know, like creative,
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: a doctor, whatever anything else, then like I don't know,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: it's for you. I don't know. I mean, but not
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: to just courage anyway. But I think that's actually like
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: a fun thing to think about. It's like if you
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: know this is like everything and this is one you
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: have to do, then you're gonna figure it out because
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: you just won't stop. It's that kind of passion and
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: that kind of like true like that type of dream
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: that's that's rare, and if you have it, you have it.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: to learn, whether in the film industry or in life.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Still learning? So I spoke like briefly about how this
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: this movie is about a moment of time in my
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: life that was like very shameful and I had It's
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: not that. Yeah, I felt the love of shame of
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: the time, like when I was younger and when I
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: was pitching this movie a lot to kind of show
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: up in those meetings and pretend that I had no
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: shame or like, you know, act very loving of myself,
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: and it's actually just really okay to be whoever you are.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Like this process making this film has taught me that
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I knew that going into making it,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I was faking it, and then making it making the
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: film has been like, jeez, it really is fine to
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: be exactly who you are, Like you don't need to
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: put on all these airs or like pretend to be
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: someone else or it's going to work out if you're
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: exactly who you are.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: So that's I'd argue that the key to making it
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: workout is to be yourself. It's the only thing that
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: makes you stand apart.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, I mean, all you have is you. You're
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: not going to be like a great version of someone else.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: You're going to be only a great version of who
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: you exactly are. But I didn't. I that took feel
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: on time to figure out.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, agreed, I know. I I you know, I'll
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: never be a great invitation of Tarantino or Rodriguez or
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Fincher or Nolan or Spielberg because they're good at what
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: they do and they're pretty much the best at being them.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: So, but you can only be the best version of yourself.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: And that's the key and one. And I think any
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: anybody who has any success in any avenue of this
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: in this life is true to themselves generally speaking.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: It's true and and and and this, like this moment
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: of my life that is very dark has been the
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: inspiration for the thing that is the most stunning and
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: the most beautiful thing in my life like this, like this,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: this experience that I had and the struggle that I
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: had is like, you know, I have a movie about it,
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: and now I'm here, like I'm so happy that happened.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy that that. I'm that I made it
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: out of it, for sure, But I don't wish I
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: could like carve some pieces out of me and take
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: some of my history away. And it's like, what's the
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: use of that at all?
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Agreed, you are who you are, and whatever happened to
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: you in your past is what made you who you
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: are today. And I've I came to grips with that
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: a long long time ago. Just like if I had
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: to do it over again, I would go the same way,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: because that's who I am and if you take that away,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: you take a big chunk of who you are away,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and you wouldn't have been able to make this movie.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't have you wouldn't have done any of this stuff.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: So where would you have gone? It might have been
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: a different world, It might have been better, might have
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: been worse. Who knows. But this is the path that
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you were put on, and embrace it without question. And
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: last question, three of your favorite films of all time?
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: Should have prepared for that one? Well? I each A
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: hal Time is definitely one of them. I would say
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Fish Tank, Andrew Arnold, and there's so many, but I'm
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: gonna say Reprise Yoakim Trier. I worked with Jokim on
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of the Bombs and he is brilliant, brilliant director.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah, really really anything that we checked.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Uh, Sir, sir. I appreciate you coming on the show.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute joy talking to you. It's your
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: energy is infectious for what you're doing. So thank you
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: for coming on the show and congrats on all your
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: success so far. And I know you're going to do
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of amazing things and tell some really remarkable
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: stories in the future. So continued success and hopefully there's
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: a little girl out there who's going to see this
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: and go if you could do it, and if you
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: could do it, I mean I got a shot.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Oh man. That's that's what this is all about. That's
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: what this all for me for sure.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: But I appreciate you, my dear, continue success.
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Sarah so much for coming on
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: the show and sharing her journey with the tribe. Thank
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: you so so much, Sarah. If you want to get
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: over to the show notes app anyfilmuscle dot com forward
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: slash seven sixty nine. If you have it already, please
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and leave
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: a good review for the show. It really helps us
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening. Guys,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Indie film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: E F I L M h U S T L
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: E dot com.