Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #460 What’s in a Name?

Transcript

#460 What’s in a Name? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers,
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: now what actually happens here? Is that a name, in
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: some ways sends a signal to society about who you
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: are and where you're from.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: And now here's the stars of our show.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: My mom and dad. Now and then we record a
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  Speaker 2: podcast episode that makes me nervous. It makes me wonder,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: is this a good idea? Should we do this? Missus
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Happy Families. I'm not even going to introduce the topic yet.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I just want to know, have we made a mistake
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: before we even begin or is this going to be okay?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Or I hope not? You hope not. Well, you hope
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be okay? Is that you know?
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: I hope that it's not a mistake. I hope it's okay.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I'm really nervous about this one. Here we go, ladies
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: and gentlemen. I'm justin here with Kylie, my wife and
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: mum to our six kids. I run Happy Families dot
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: com dot a you. But but before I tell you
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: what the topic is, I want to let you know
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: that there is science. There is science behind what we're
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: going to talk about, and it's good science. And I
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: also need to highlight that we're not doing this podcast
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to shame anyone, Kylie. We have the very very very
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: best of intentions. Correct, correct, but we are going to
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: laugh and make fun of people in spite of it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that we're doing this all right. So
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  Speaker 2: here it is. Just in the last few days, there's
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  Speaker 2: been a news article that has landed on news dot
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  Speaker 2: com dot a U, Australia's apparently number one news website,
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  Speaker 2: although most of the time I wonder if it is
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  Speaker 2: actually news on that website. Kylie introduces to the topic,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if I want you. I'm I'm
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: throwing you under the bus, totally sure. I just I
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  Speaker 2: want to be associated only with the science side of this.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure of it.
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  Speaker 3: So the article is titled Australia's most Bogan baby Names
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: for twenty twenty two.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what we're really going to do here is
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  Speaker 2: we're going to highlight that people are coming up with
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  Speaker 2: some names that we might consider creative. Yeah, creative is
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  Speaker 2: better than what I was going to say. Some creative
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  Speaker 2: baby names, and we're going to share some of them
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  Speaker 2: with you and then talk about whether it's a good
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  Speaker 2: or a bad idea to give your kids names that
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  Speaker 2: end up on news dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I've been reading a book lately,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: it's actually off your book case, called The End of
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Average by Todd Rose.
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  Speaker 2: I love this book. It's one of my favorite books
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  Speaker 2: of all time.
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  Speaker 3: It's funny we're talking about, you know this, these creative
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  Speaker 3: ways that parents strive to create individuality for their children.
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  Speaker 1: Ye.
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  Speaker 3: And it's almost like this desire to make sure that
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  Speaker 3: their child stands out that they don't, you know, kind
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  Speaker 3: of fall into what we would consider the average name.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm going to I'm going to speak personally here,
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  Speaker 2: and I hope it doesn't come back to bite me.
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  Speaker 2: I love my brother and his wife and their kids
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: just gorgeous. But Tim my brother, who's a famous photographer,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: or he used to be, at least I don't know
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  Speaker 2: what he's doing with that anymore, but really well known
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  Speaker 2: for his photography. And he and Cash are both really
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  Speaker 2: creative types. They love the process of creation. They're always
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  Speaker 2: thinking about being creative. And when it came to their kids' names,
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  Speaker 2: they wanted intentionally, they wanted to give their kids names
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  Speaker 2: that were standout names that were unique names. Now, they
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  Speaker 2: would never make a list of Bogan baby names for
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, but they're really unique. My sister's down the.
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  Speaker 3: Same with her kids. They are really different names. And
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  Speaker 3: I know. I remember each time she was pregnant and
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  Speaker 3: we'd kind of asked her what she was thinking for
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  Speaker 3: a name. She literally got to a point after baby
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  Speaker 3: number two, I think where she just said, I'm not
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  Speaker 3: telling you. She said, because once you meet the baby
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  Speaker 3: and I tell you what its name is, you'll love
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  Speaker 3: it anyway. But while ever, it's just a blip in
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  Speaker 3: my belly. Yeah, and it's just a name on a page.
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  Speaker 3: She said, you're gonna hate it.
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  Speaker 2: I just know you are.
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  Speaker 3: She's been very deliberate. I've got other friends who've been
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: very specific about using unisex names so that their children
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  Speaker 3: aren't identifiable as male or female based on their name.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, really interesting. And here I was. I thought
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  Speaker 2: that we were coming up with really great names for
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  Speaker 2: our kids. I mean, it was kind of hard to
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  Speaker 2: come up with six girls names. But Chanelle, we thought
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  Speaker 2: that was unusual. And there's not a lot of Chanel's around.
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  Speaker 2: But I remember when we had channels though that we
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: got to number three and I wanted to go kind
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: of a little bit old school, and I remember we
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  Speaker 2: talked about it and we both agreed that Ella Ella
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Rose would be great. And there were hardly any Ellas
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  Speaker 2: around at the time, and now every grade level that
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  Speaker 2: she's been in, she's been with at least two or three,
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  Speaker 2: maybe four or five other Elas like are everywhere. And
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  Speaker 2: all of our kids' names ended up being pretty middle
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  Speaker 2: of the road, pretty average, pretty standard girls' names. So,
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  Speaker 2: now that we've prolonged the agony, if you've called your
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: children any of the following names, we're not saying you're
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  Speaker 2: a bogan. We're not saying that you've done anything wrong.
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  Speaker 2: We're not shaming you. What we're doing is we're saying
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  Speaker 2: that news dot com, dot you is shaming you. News
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  Speaker 2: dot com, dot you has decided that they want to
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  Speaker 2: pick on you, and we're just we're just reporting what
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  Speaker 2: was in the paper, which is reporting what was in
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  Speaker 2: the news article. Kylie, why don't you kick us off?
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  Speaker 2: What were the girls the best?
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  Speaker 3: I don't even know if I'm going to be able
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  Speaker 3: to pronounce some of these names. We've got Mavery, which
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: is Mayve plus avery makes mavery huh. Yeah, We've got Kre.
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say Kyre. It's supposed to be. It's supposed
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  Speaker 3: to be like Dior as in Christian Door. We've got Cardi.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well well Cardi Cardi b right, but that's short
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  Speaker 2: for a CARDI. Throw on a K for a bit
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  Speaker 2: of random spelling there, just because if you're going to
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  Speaker 2: go bogan, you've got to change the spelling up as well. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: what else have we got any other girls names that
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: really struck you? Brexley Brexley, like we're having brexit? How
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: do you spell Brexley? Is that b r E b
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  Speaker 2: r e c k brickle b r e x it's
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  Speaker 2: got an x in it l e I G h
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: oh wow. Well so, so I believe that the the
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: V or the lee or the whatever sound is is
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: right in so I also saw that there was OBC.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: The one that concerned me the most was the one
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  Speaker 2: that's been named after the vape brand Jewel j u
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: u l so originally a Dutch name, but Jewel is
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  Speaker 2: now a vape brand, and like that that does sound
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  Speaker 2: kind of bogun, right if you're gonna if you're gonna
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  Speaker 2: name it after a vape. Is that is that going
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  Speaker 2: too far? What do you reckon?
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  Speaker 3: Look, I'm just I'm scrolling its four.
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  Speaker 2: I actually like that name, by the way, Jewel, but
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  Speaker 2: just knowing that it's named after the vape brand kind
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  Speaker 2: of diminishes it in my in my.
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  Speaker 3: Just spell it differently.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like Jewel Duwel Kilcher. You were meant for me Jewel?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: You know the you remember the Folks singer from way back.
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  Speaker 3: I remember a few years ago when we were we
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  Speaker 3: were having babies at that point, and there was, you know,
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  Speaker 3: a trend to kind of use nature as inspiration for
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  Speaker 3: baby names. And we had a friend called their child river,
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  Speaker 3: and another one called the Haven, and another one called
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  Speaker 3: them summer and winter.
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  Speaker 2: We had an autumn we know, someone called snow.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I'm just looking at this list and they've
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  Speaker 3: definitely taken the next step.
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  Speaker 2: They like they've done the next step.
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  Speaker 3: There's salmon.
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  Speaker 2: Oh wow, wow? Is that for a girl or a boy?
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  Speaker 3: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if I could call my child salmon.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I just although sometimes my kids are so scrumptious I
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: could eat them, but I don't think i'd call them.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Someon here are my favorite boys' names already, We've got brave.
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  Speaker 2: There's Draxler, d R A x L E R Cashton,
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  Speaker 2: Knoxley Knox as in K and O X Knoxley. I
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  Speaker 2: actually like that. You're so bogan. I can't believe how
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  Speaker 2: bogan you are, missus Happy Families. What about this one legend?
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  Speaker 2: So it's like legend, but the d is halfway through
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  Speaker 2: the word instead of at the end led gin instead
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  Speaker 2: of legendo. Oh, the two that got my the two
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  Speaker 2: that really got me going raw raw ro a r raw.
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  Speaker 2: The next one, Yeah, what's the last one?
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  Speaker 3: Zinc?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, zinc. Let's call our kids zinc. Anyway, we
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  Speaker 2: have now done the shaming thing. There is actually some
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  Speaker 2: science around having an unusual name and what that does
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  Speaker 2: to your child's chances of success in life. I'm going
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: to have a look at that. Next, it's the Happy
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Families podcast.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: of Disciplined is a webinar to help parents set limits
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at Happy
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: families dot com dot au slash shop.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: parent who just wants answers. Now, tell me, doctor Justin,
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  Speaker 3: what is the science behind giving your children unusual names?
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  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like we've just defended the entire
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  Speaker 2: the entire planet today in this podcast. But anyway, here's
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  Speaker 2: what we know from research. First of all, you spend
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  Speaker 2: forever trying to figure this out, right, I mean, just
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  Speaker 2: figuring it out is so so difficult. But early studies
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  Speaker 2: have found that men with uncommon first names more likely
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  Speaker 2: to drop out of school and more likely to be
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  Speaker 2: lonely later in life. And one study found that psychiatric
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  Speaker 2: patients who had more unusual names tended to be more disturbed.
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  Speaker 2: Here's what else I can tell you. Research evidence tells
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  Speaker 2: us that different names are popular among different social classes,
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  Speaker 2: and it's the different social classes that have different opportunities
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  Speaker 2: and goals. So there's been some research in the UK,
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  Speaker 2: there's been some research in the United States. What actually
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  Speaker 2: happens here is that a in some ways sends a
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  Speaker 2: signal to society about who you are and where you're from. Now,
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  Speaker 2: this really does run the risk from a political point
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  Speaker 2: of view, of putting us in a situation where we're
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  Speaker 2: actually pre judging people, and it's a horrible thing to say,
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  Speaker 2: so I want to be really gentle when I say this.
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  Speaker 2: When we look at the data though, and this is
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: some research from a study in two thousand and three.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: The study was called are Emily and Greg more employable
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: than Lakeisha and Jamal? So the two researchers their names
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: were Mary Anne Bertrand and Send Hill. I can't actually
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: pronounce this research's surname, but I'm going to try Melay Nathan.
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  Speaker 2: They sent nearly five thousand cvs in response to job
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  Speaker 2: advertisements in Chicago and Boston newspapers. Cvs are exactly the same,
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  Speaker 2: but half well given fake names. It sounded like they
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: belonged to white people like Emily Walsh or Greg Baker,
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  Speaker 2: and the other half were given names that sounded African American,
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  Speaker 2: like Lakeisha Washington or Jamal Jones. And the callback rate
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  Speaker 2: from employers was fifty percent higher on the white names
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  Speaker 2: than the black names. And this was even found with
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  Speaker 2: federal contractors that have got affirmative action policies and companies
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  Speaker 2: that said they were equal opportunity employers. If we move
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: even further into this little area of it's a quagmire
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  Speaker 2: really in terms of the prejudice and the things that
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  Speaker 2: it can stir up. David Figlio as a researcher at
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Northwestern University, and he had a look at the scores
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  Speaker 2: of fifty five thousand children in a school district of Florida,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: and instead of just distinguishing between white and black names,
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  Speaker 2: he codified what aspects of names meant that they were
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  Speaker 2: more likely to belong to black children and children from
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: low income families. So we was able to create this
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  Speaker 2: sliding scale which went, for example, from Drew to Dwayne
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: to DeMarcus to da Quan. And so you can see
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  Speaker 2: how you're on this scale of these names beginning with
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: d and they're getting increasingly unusual, increasingly unique, and also
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  Speaker 2: increasingly likely to belong to a certain social class or
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: a certain racial background, or whatever it might be. And
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  Speaker 2: what David Figlio found with this big study was that
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the further along the scale he went, the worse the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: school test scores were, the less likely the student was
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: to be recommended for the school's program for gifted students.
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  Speaker 2: And in a separate study, he used the same data
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  Speaker 2: to show that African American boys who were given names
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  Speaker 2: more common among girls more likely to develop behavioral problems
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  Speaker 2: when they reach puberty, and those problems increase significantly when
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: there are girls in the same year group with the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: same name. So we can't say for sure that a
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: name is going to highlight a person's chance or otherwise
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  Speaker 2: for success in life. And a lot of this stuff
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  Speaker 2: is mixed up with race, particularly the American research and
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: also a little bit in the UK. But what all
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: of the research shows, Kylie, is that when you give
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: your kids unique, novel, creative names, it absolutely sets them apart.
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  Speaker 2: And the overwhelming majority of the evidence over the last
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: twenty or thirty years is that it sets them apart
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: in ways that we probably wouldn't be pleased about.
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  Speaker 3: When my friend was naming her daughters, she made sure
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: that they had a unisex name because of that very reason.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: She didn't want them to be putting their resume in
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: and being judged on their capacity based on their gender.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Interesting just how powerful and impression our names have without
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: anybody knowing even who we are.
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  Speaker 2: So the moral of the story to take home message,
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  Speaker 2: We're not going to tell you what to name your kids.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: That would be an appropriate but I think that it's
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: really relevant that we just pause and think, if children
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: are coming into the world, how do we want them
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to be seen by the world, Because they will be
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: seen a certain way. The wrong name can, unfortunately, even
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, can lead to kids being bullied
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and potentially missing out on opportunities, whether it's a work opportunity,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: a school opportunity, or otherwise. Hey, Kylie, great conversation. Thanks
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: for finding that article and sharing the Bogan names. I'm
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: glad we were able to have a bit of a
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: laugh about it, but like I said, there is a
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: bit of a serious side to it, and I think
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: that it's worth spending time on that. The Happy Families
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer. We are really excited to
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: tell you that on the twenty fourth of March, can
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: we please talk about our boys. It's a free webinar,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Free free webinar twenty fourth of March to help you
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to navigate the challenges of raising boys in what can
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: be a very difficult place for our boys all too often.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: That's the twenty fourth of March free webinar. All the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: details at our Facebook page, doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: or online at happy families dot com, dot a