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Fruit of the Spirit-Peace · The Father's Business Podcast

0:03
Elizabeth: The Father's Business was founded by Sylvia Gunter to encourage people to a deeper relationship with God.
0:08
Elizabeth: I'm Elizabeth Gunter Powell.
0:11
Kimberly: And I am Kimberly Roddy.
0:12
Kimberly: Welcome to the Father's Business Podcast.
0:14
Kimberly: We are so glad that you've joined us.
0:16
Kimberly: Hi everyone, elizabeth and I have some exciting news we want to tell you about.
0:21
Kimberly: So, before we jump into today's episode, you don't want to miss this news.
0:25
Kimberly: Elizabeth, tell them what's coming.
0:28
Elizabeth: We are so excited because we are going to have our first in-person conference in several years, coming up in October, october 16 to 18.
0:38
Elizabeth: And Kimberly, where are we going to be?
0:40
Kimberly: We are going to be in Sandy Cove, Maryland.
0:44
Kimberly: It is on the Chesapeake Bay.
0:45
Kimberly: It is gorgeous.
0:47
Kimberly: Elizabeth and I have been there to visit.
0:48
Kimberly: We think you're going to love it.
0:50
Elizabeth: The nature is amazing.
0:52
Elizabeth: The accommodations are five star.
0:54
Elizabeth: It is going to be a great time to gather together with other people who have studied the Ruach Journey study before.
1:02
Elizabeth: So we're hosting a conference for everyone who has been through the Ruach Journey study before.
1:04
Elizabeth: So we're hosting a conference for everyone who has been through the Ruach Journey study.
1:07
Elizabeth: That's available on our website or you've attended a Ruach Journey conference in the past.
1:12
Elizabeth: You've been listening to the series that we did last fall on Ruach Journey.
1:17
Elizabeth: Any of these things will allow you to be prepared to attend the conference this fall.
1:22
Elizabeth: So there's still plenty of time.
1:24
Elizabeth: If you want to come and join us at this conference and you have not yet done the RUAC Journey Study, you can go on our website and order it.
1:31
Elizabeth: It's a video-based study that you can do on your own or get together with a group of friends and get your hearts and minds prepared for the fall.
1:38
Kimberly: We will also be offering a few other events leading up to this event in October.
1:43
Kimberly: We are going to be calling these the Road to Ruach because they are to prepare us and help us like Elizabeth said, just get the right understanding as we come into the conference for Ruach, Journey 2.
1:55
Kimberly: And so the first one that we want to tell you about is going to be in May, on May 18th, in Memphis.
2:03
Kimberly: It's going to be at the Memphis Botanic Gardens and we are so excited to tell you about that.
2:08
Kimberly: So if you live in the Memphis area or if you want to travel to the Memphis area, pray for a beautiful day, because it'll be a gorgeous location and we would love to have you join us there.
2:17
Kimberly: You can check out our website for more details.
2:21
Kimberly: On thefathersbusinesscom, there is a link for events and you can find both of those events on thefathersbusinesscom.
2:25
Kimberly: There is a link for events and you can find both of those events on the website at thefathersbusinesscom.
2:30
Kimberly: Backslash events.
2:32
Elizabeth: The event in Memphis is going to be a half day seminar.
2:34
Elizabeth: Registration starts at nine.
2:36
Elizabeth: The event will start at 9.30 and will be done by 12.30.
2:40
Elizabeth: And it's going to be a mixture of teaching time but also time for you to spend time with God, listening to him and what he wants to say to you.
2:48
Elizabeth: I think it'd be a great experience.
2:50
Elizabeth: Whether you plan on attending the Ruach Journey 2 event in the fall or not, we would love to have you join us at this event coming up May 18th.
2:59
Elizabeth: Well, welcome everyone back to our series on Fruit of the Spirit.
3:04
Elizabeth: This podcast is all about peace and, of course, kimberly, on the day you're recording a podcast on peace, life is anything but peaceful, right?
3:14
Elizabeth: So we need this one as much as anyone else listening to this podcast.
3:20
Elizabeth: So we're going to jump in and try to figure out what peace really means, and I think sometimes we have an idea in our minds of what a definition of peace is.
3:33
Elizabeth: Kimberly, what kind of comes to your mind when you think about peace?
3:37
Kimberly: I think the first thought that comes to mind is just this idea of serenity is another word that we often use that's similar to peace.
3:44
Kimberly: It's the idea of tranquility.
3:46
Kimberly: I love the ocean.
3:48
Kimberly: I have a pond or a lake behind my house and it feels peaceful sometimes to just sit there and look at the water and watch the breeze of the trees, and I think what feels peaceful about that is it's a tranquil space.
4:04
Kimberly: But it also something about those spaces help us feel free from our burdens, right, they help us feel unhurried, relaxed.
4:16
Kimberly: So those are the ideas that I think about when I think about the word peace.
4:21
Elizabeth: Yeah, I mean, kimberly, you and I often will text or call each other and ask if we can go by an Island somewhere and just move to it and leave all of the responsibilities and worries and hurry and scurry of life behind.
4:36
Elizabeth: And so, yeah, I, I think in my mind, peace means I have no responsibility, I'm not in a rush, I don't have to take care of anything or anybody, like it's very circumstantial.
4:49
Elizabeth: And yeah, when I do get to go on a vacation and I'm sitting in my little chair looking at the ocean and all I've got to do that day is think about do I want to take a nap or do I want to stay outside, those are great peaceful days.
5:03
Elizabeth: But that's not really what peace is, I don't think.
5:09
Kimberly: Yeah, so how would you define the essence of peace?
5:12
Elizabeth: I think you cannot much like.
5:14
Elizabeth: We've talked about with love and joy, and we'll continue to talk with the other fruit of the spirit.
5:18
Elizabeth: The peace cannot be dependent upon circumstances.
5:24
Elizabeth: It is a much deeper way of feeling.
5:29
Elizabeth: It's not an absence of trouble, but it is rather a state of it's calm and happy and wonderful.
5:35
Elizabeth: I have this consistent state of all is well.
5:50
Elizabeth: You know that it's going to be okay.
5:53
Elizabeth: It's kind of you know Kimberly, our phrase that we use all the time the moon is round.
5:57
Elizabeth: It's saying, regardless of what's going on in my life, I'm going to choose to believe and have faith that God is in this, with me.
6:05
Elizabeth: Therefore I have peace versus I only have peace when my life is calm.
6:11
Elizabeth: Because I think Jesus offers us a very different perspective.
6:14
Elizabeth: Because, I mean, even John 16, 33 says I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace.
6:21
Elizabeth: That's awesome, I love that part of the verse.
6:24
Elizabeth: But then he continues and says in this world you will have trouble, but take heart, for I have overcome the world.
6:31
Elizabeth: So there's this acknowledgement that Jesus is trying to make in connection.
6:36
Elizabeth: He's trying to make in our minds is I'm giving you my peace, I'm giving you me, but that doesn't mean that life is going to always be easy.
6:45
Elizabeth: There's going to be trouble.
6:47
Kimberly: Yeah, it was the story in the gospels of the disciples out on the boat in the storm and Jesus says take courage, I'm here in the midst of the storm and it's in that midst of the storm where we find peace in Jesus.
7:03
Kimberly: Often, because Jesus speaks to the storm, he stills the storm.
7:07
Kimberly: Sometimes he doesn't still the storm, but he's present Sometimes he doesn't.
7:10
Kimberly: He's present Right, and that's what we're really looking for.
7:14
Elizabeth: If we're honest, most days it's still the storm, right, yes, but sometimes he doesn't calm the storm, because I love that in scripture there's two different stories about Jesus and storms when they're out on the boat on the Sea of Galilee.
7:30
Elizabeth: One time Jesus is asleep in the boat and the disciples wake him up going don't you even care that we're going to die?
7:38
Elizabeth: And he speaks to the storm and it stops, okay.
7:42
Elizabeth: But another time the disciples are out in a boat without Jesus.
7:46
Elizabeth: They're in a big storm and here comes Jesus walking across the water, but he didn't stop the storm.
7:53
Elizabeth: He invited Peter to come walk out into the storm with him.
7:56
Elizabeth: And so you're right, kimberly.
7:59
Elizabeth: I think a lot of times in this life when I say I want peace, what I mean is I want Jesus to say peace, be still.
8:05
Elizabeth: Every single time Like I want the circumstances to stop, then I can have peace.
8:10
Elizabeth: And yet a lot of times I think, as we grow more and more in maturity with him, more often than not he's not going to come in and say peace, be still to the storm.
8:20
Elizabeth: He's going to go, come out here and walk in the storm with me and you're going to be fine.
8:24
Elizabeth: And that's not my favorite one.
8:33
Elizabeth: I like the first story better because, again, it makes me feel like I can have more control and I know what's going to happen.
8:36
Elizabeth: And even Peter, as he steps out of the boat at first he's fine, but when he takes his eyes off of Jesus and he starts looking at the waves around him, he starts to drown and Jesus has to save him.
8:48
Elizabeth: And so there's so much about peace.
8:51
Elizabeth: That's really not about our circumstances, and that's why I think we can't produce it, like we've said, of all the fruit.
8:59
Elizabeth: We can't do this.
9:01
Elizabeth: I can't create peace.
9:02
Elizabeth: In my own life.
9:03
Elizabeth: My brain runs all the time with the what ifs and the whatabouts, and I was raised by a world-class warrior in my dad, but I also have enough of that in my own life, and so I was trained to always think about worst case scenario and what are you going to do?
9:19
Elizabeth: And then my brain is naturally wired that way anyway, and so I am great about thinking through every disaster plan known to man when it comes to a situation.
9:28
Elizabeth: It's hard for me to rest when I'm doing that.
9:32
Elizabeth: I have to be able to focus on who God is and who he is for me, and that he is bigger and he is more creative, and he's the God of the impossible.
9:40
Elizabeth: I have to focus in on these things.
9:42
Elizabeth: And then the peace comes, because, as Jesus has already told us in John 16, we're going to have trouble.
9:48
Elizabeth: Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean life is going to be easy.
9:51
Elizabeth: So how are you going to stay close to him in the midst of the storms is where real peace comes from.
9:58
Kimberly: I think that's where the For Jesus to Do box comes in for a lot of us in fairly practical ways.
10:03
Kimberly: Yeah.
10:06
Kimberly: So if you listen to our podcast, you've heard us talk about this often, right?
10:08
Kimberly: But the idea behind it is that it's like we carry these burdens, we carry these troubles, we carry these storms and and we are constantly fretting about them just like you were saying, a world class warrior, right?
10:22
Kimberly: And we're trying to fix them, we're trying to wonder how to fix them and we're just stewing all the time.
10:28
Kimberly: We're talking about soul stewing, and so a practice, a discipline, a spiritual practice, is that we write these things down and we put them in the for Jesus to do box as a way to say I'm going to choose to trust Jesus and I'm going to exchange my worry for his peace, I'm going to exchange my concerns for his presence and to recognize these things are wreaking havoc around me.
10:57
Kimberly: Sometimes they are deep, troublesome things and sometimes they're just little gnats flying around our head, but either way, they bother us, they weigh us down when we can get to the place to where we again, this is what it looks like to walk in the spirit, which is what Galatians talks about keeping in step with the spirit, like you were saying a minute ago, that's how we have the fruit of the spirit, when we come into alignment and we live that way, then we have to actively choose and discipline ourselves to say I set this worry aside and I give it to Jesus and I trust him and it's an exchange of our concern, our burdens, for his peace.
11:41
Kimberly: It sounds so easy for his peace.
11:44
Elizabeth: Right, it sounds so easy, it really does.
11:45
Elizabeth: And it reminds me of that verse in John 14, where Jesus says peace I leave with you.
11:51
Elizabeth: And in some versions, the version I like the best says my peace I give to you.
11:57
Elizabeth: And I always love that my part of it because it's like, okay, god's giving you peace, okay, but Jesus's peace, like that, it just, I don't know, for some reason, when he says my peace, it's like, oh, that's like the super duper peace, that's like the supernatural peace, and that just really drives it home for me that, as you're saying Kimberly, as I put my stuff in the for Jesus to do box, as I surrender things off of my shoulders that I'm carrying and give them to him, what I get back is Jesus-sized peace.
12:30
Elizabeth: But you're right, that is so easy to say and we should all believe it, and yet it's so hard to live, and so what I end up doing is being snappy with my family because I'm stressed out and I'm worried about things, when I should be constantly having this conversation of OK, I'm worrying about it again, ok, I'm going to put it in the box again, and I may need to put the same thing in the box 50 times in a day because it's just, it's nagging at me and as I am struggling with that at a deeper level, what's down there is unbelief.
13:09
Elizabeth: I don't believe God can handle this.
13:12
Elizabeth: I don't believe God is going to come through for me.
13:14
Elizabeth: I don't believe I'm going to like the way God does this or the timing in which he does it.
13:20
Elizabeth: There's several criteria that I could critique God on in a situation, and so I am anxious because it feels like it's up to me to handle it and I'm not believing that God's going to show up.
13:35
Elizabeth: But where this is hard is we all Kimberly, you and I both, and everyone listening to this podcast.
13:41
Elizabeth: We have real responsibilities in this life that if we don't show up and do it, no one takes care of it.
13:48
Elizabeth: So that's the hard balance for me is I can't just go well, I just put it in the for Jesus to do box, and so my family is going to be completely fine.
13:58
Elizabeth: Yes, in some ways that is true, but in other ways I have things I need to do for them.
14:04
Elizabeth: In some ways, that is true, but in other ways I have things I need to do for them.
14:08
Elizabeth: There are tasks and assignments and stuff that she's got to get at work.
14:10
Elizabeth: I can't just say, well, jesus, I put my job in the for Jesus to do box and sit at my desk and not do anything.
14:16
Elizabeth: Jesus ain't showing up that way, right?
14:19
Elizabeth: So it is this back and forth and learning how to abide with him while still living in a very chaotic, unpeaceful world.
14:29
Elizabeth: Yeah, as I'm talking about it Kimberly.
14:31
Elizabeth: The other verse I think of is Matthew 11, 28, where it's you know where Jesus invites us to come to me, all you who are weary and burdened.
14:38
Elizabeth: And that's what worry and lack of peace is.
14:42
Elizabeth: It's feeling the burdens that we're carrying and I will give you rest.
14:46
Elizabeth: And I love the message version of peace.
14:48
Elizabeth: Is it's feeling the burdens that we're carrying and I will give you rest.
14:49
Elizabeth: And I love the message version of that translation because it says come and learn the unforced rhythms of grace.
14:57
Elizabeth: And oh, I, just I love that phrase.
14:58
Elizabeth: That's the most beautiful phrase to me and it's like that's where I want to walk with Jesus and learn from him and exchange my fear and my worry for his peace, like, just let him guide me with his unforced rhythms of grace.
15:14
Elizabeth: But that doesn't happen very easily.
15:18
Elizabeth: And then I think of another verse that I would love for you to talk about, kimberly, which I hate the beginning of it in Philippians 4, 6, where it says don't worry about anything.
15:28
Elizabeth: I was like, well, come on, how are we supposed to do that?
15:32
Kimberly: Yeah, philippians 4, 6, 6 and 8, 6 through 8, 6 through 9, that whole little passage there.
15:37
Kimberly: Don't don't worry about anything, never worry about anything, be anxious for nothing.
15:46
Kimberly: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't.
15:46
Kimberly: I'd have to look at the language.
15:47
Kimberly: I'm like is that a command, cause that's really hard, or is it just like a hey, I really want you to worry about?
15:52
Kimberly: Don't worry about anything, like you got, I got it.
15:54
Kimberly: I got it.
15:54
Kimberly: God's like I got it.
15:55
Kimberly: But in essence, the next part is what's critical.
15:58
Kimberly: It's like in every situation, present your request to God, let God know what you need in prayers and requests, while giving thanks.
16:08
Kimberly: Okay, so so two like I see two things there.
16:13
Kimberly: It's it's God saying I want you to come to me, let me know your petitions, let me know your requests, let me know your prayers, talk to me and also give thanks.
16:27
Kimberly: In those things there's another aspect, like a perspective that Paul's trying to offer us there, right, right.
16:36
Kimberly: And then it says then, after those things have been done, then God's peace which goes beyond anything we can imagine, which I love.
16:52
Kimberly: That I love that God's peace which goes beyond anything we can imagine.
16:57
Kimberly: I can't imagine what it's really like to have God's peace.
17:01
Kimberly: Yeah then that will guard our hearts, our thoughts, our emotions through Christ Jesus.
17:10
Kimberly: So God's peace, which goes beyond anything we can imagine, will guard us.
17:17
Kimberly: What does it mean for God's peace to guard us, Elizabeth?
17:20
Elizabeth: Yeah, I love that particular word in the original language because it's a lot stronger.
17:26
Elizabeth: It means to mount a garrison around.
17:29
Elizabeth: It's very militant and I'm like, oh, because you know everyone's like yeah, don't worry about it, just the peace of God will help you through it.
17:38
Elizabeth: That sounds very soft to me, but it's like no, if you give all this to God and you're giving thanks, he's going to mount a garrison around your mind.
17:48
Elizabeth: And as a world-class warrior, I need a garrison mounted around my mind sometimes, because it's a battle not to let fear and worry rule our hearts and minds.
18:00
Elizabeth: And one we're naturally wired that way.
18:02
Elizabeth: Two, our culture doesn't help Everything.
18:06
Elizabeth: We're social media, television, news like it's all like.
18:11
Elizabeth: It sounds like everything is bad all the time.
18:14
Elizabeth: It feels like, and so we're inundated with negativeness and it leads to fear and worry.
18:22
Elizabeth: Because fear and worry sells clicks Like that's what's going to lead in the news.
18:27
Elizabeth: Fear and worry sells clicks Like that's what's going to lead in the news.
18:33
Elizabeth: And so we've got to mount a garrison around our minds, or allow God to mount a garrison around our minds to protect our minds, so that we're focusing in on the giving thanks part and when you're giving thanks, you're aligning your heart with who God is.
18:44
Elizabeth: Because what are we giving thanks for?
18:46
Elizabeth: I mean, you know you present your request and give thanks.
18:49
Elizabeth: Thank you that you're with me in this, thank you that this is who you are, thank you that you will be there for me.
18:56
Elizabeth: So it's reaffirming in your heart and your mind who God is, what he's done in the past and what he'll do in the future, and that giving thanks part is so.
19:06
Elizabeth: It's so convicting to me because I want to present my requests to God, but then I want to tell him, in grumbling and complaining, what I think about them.
19:13
Elizabeth: And you know God takes grumbling and complaining very seriously.
19:17
Elizabeth: I mean, he just asked the Israelites who ended up walking around in the desert for 40 years because they decided that what God was doing for them was not enough, and they grumbled and complained about it, and that led to idol worship.
19:29
Elizabeth: And then here we are None of y'all are going in the promised land, so let's walk around in a desert for 40 years.
19:35
Elizabeth: So it's like a cancer that can start growing as I grumble and complain.
19:40
Elizabeth: And so I think that is why we are commanded to give thanks is to constantly be reminding ourselves of who God is and who we are in him.
19:49
Kimberly: You just mentioned that in our culture today, which is something I think is really real, we have this conversation about mental health going on a lot, and so there is an anxiety that simmers not just in our social media outlets and our news feeds and everything else, but it just exists in people really strongly and we're we're trying to talk about it as a society and a culture.
20:13
Kimberly: But one of the things that I find interesting is, with a lot of the, the younger generation, like Gen Zs and millennials just to clarify, I I will see a lot of them are here I will hear a lot of them use the word shalom, which is interesting Because I do think it's a longing that they have for peace and for no anxiety.
20:35
Kimberly: I was going to say less anxiety, no anxiety, and the idea of shalom, which we see a lot in the Psalms.
20:42
Kimberly: It signifies this idea of wholeness and reconciliation with God, right?
20:49
Kimberly: So so what we see?
20:51
Kimberly: There is this covenant element of peace in Romans five one.
20:55
Kimberly: Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
21:02
Kimberly: So so God's peace is a benefit of the covenant relationship with God.
21:09
Kimberly: So you hear people in society know the word shalom, and it's almost like trying to grasp at this sense of deeper peace.
21:18
Kimberly: Mm-hmm, you understand that there is through a relationship with Christ there is access to an incredible deep level of wholeness and reconciliation with God.
21:35
Elizabeth: And that covenant again is about a relationship, it's about being part of a community, and that's really, I think these younger I mean all of us, but you're talking specifically about younger generations that's what they're craving.
21:48
Elizabeth: They want a place to belong, they want a place where they are known, where they are loved, and so, yeah, I think they're using the right word.
21:55
Elizabeth: They just don't fully understand what they're asking for is.
21:58
Elizabeth: It's found in that covenant relationship with him, because as I come into covenant with God, I also come in covenant with everyone else who is already in covenant with God.
22:08
Elizabeth: Yeah, we're talking a lot Kimberly about my own internal peace, my relationship with God giving me peace.
22:15
Elizabeth: But what does this look like more horizontally?
22:18
Elizabeth: And now we're getting kind of into your area of expertise as a certified mediator.
22:22
Elizabeth: You find yourself in a lot of situations where two people are not at peace with one another.
22:29
Elizabeth: I just want you to kind of talk about what does it look like?
22:31
Elizabeth: Sometimes I don't think you can get them to peace because of their own hurt, but you kind of get them to a point of like a ceasefire maybe.
22:39
Elizabeth: So what does true peace look like in our horizontal relationships, versus what we may think it means?
22:49
Kimberly: Yeah, I think it's really hard to have peace when there is an element of brokenness in the relationship to the degree that people are needing to reach out for mediation, because typically the people that come to me are at a point where they're just like we're stuck.
23:03
Kimberly: I don't know what else to do.
23:05
Kimberly: But I do often find I was thinking about this when you mentioned earlier the absence of storms I've often will find people in mediation with me.
23:13
Kimberly: Relationally, they want to have peace and what they think that means is that they want the storm to stop swirling.
23:23
Kimberly: But I've discovered that what they really want is to stop being affected by the storm that's swirling, but I've discovered that what they really want is to stop being affected by the storm that's swirling.
23:33
Kimberly: So there's a little nuance there about almost what we were talking about earlier of how do we, when the storm is still swirling, how do we exchange that for the peace of God?
23:44
Kimberly: That passes all understanding.
23:45
Kimberly: Relationally, that's hard, because we can't put our trust in another person like we can put our trust in God, and so there's this idea that they don't want to be affected by the storm, but the storm exists, and so you got a couple options.
24:02
Kimberly: You can go bury your head in the sand and just say the storm's not going to affect me.
24:09
Elizabeth: Right.
24:10
Kimberly: Let me know how that works out right.
24:11
Kimberly: It's not going to work out well, but that's where I think sometimes you've got people that avoid the storm or run away from it.
24:18
Kimberly: Other people are like charging into the storm, trying to rescue themselves, put out the fire, but I do think that in all of that, peace is not an absence of the storm, it's not an absence of the conflict.
24:31
Kimberly: I've said it on here before and I say it all the time, that no one wants to read a book or watch a movie or a TV show that doesn't have conflict in it, because there's nothing to resolve.
24:41
Kimberly: We want resolution.
24:44
Kimberly: The story of Easter is a critical conflict of Christ on the cross and we want the third day.
24:50
Kimberly: We want the stone rolled away.
24:52
Kimberly: We want resurrection to resolve the conflict and to offer us that hope and that covenant relationship.
24:58
Kimberly: Hard Sometimes, it's about choosing to recognize how to have peace in the midst of conflict.
25:14
Kimberly: This is where I try to tell people to be curious in their conflict and to not let conflict be the end-all, be-all.
25:19
Elizabeth: What do you mean by curious in their conflict?
25:22
Kimberly: So I mean like a lot of times we view conflict as a bad thing.
25:27
Elizabeth: Yeah, something to be avoided.
25:28
Kimberly: Yeah, we either want to avoid it or we want to charge into it, and we make it worse and we make it bigger.
25:33
Kimberly: We dramatize it right, and so what I say is be curious in it, meaning you start to ask questions Like if there's conflict between me and you, elizabeth, and we're stuck on something, I can go.
25:45
Kimberly: Oh, I feel like Elizabeth's mad at me, so I just need to be nice to her and not make her mad at me anymore.
25:50
Kimberly: Well, I'm just ignoring the fact that there's some conflict between us and just sweeping it under the rug.
25:57
Kimberly: Or I could go Elizabeth's mad at me at something and I need to dive into it and I need to go.
26:00
Kimberly: Why are you mad at me?
26:01
Kimberly: What's going on?
26:02
Kimberly: Oh, I didn't do that and I kind of get defensive and I have a tone and attitude about me.
26:05
Kimberly: The other way to do it, where I say be curious in conflict, is I could say okay, I sense that something's going on with Elizabeth and I sense that there's conflict between us.
26:13
Kimberly: So I can say, hey, elizabeth, I feel like there's conflict between us.
26:17
Kimberly: I don't really want conflict.
26:18
Kimberly: So I'm wondering did I do something to offend you?
26:20
Kimberly: Did I do something to harm you?
26:22
Kimberly: Or, if I'm feeling like you did something to me, I could say, hey, elizabeth, I feel like there's some conflict between us and part of this is because I've been hurt by you and I want to give you an opportunity to talk about that and we're scared to do that.
26:37
Kimberly: Yeah, you have to be vulnerable to do that.
26:40
Kimberly: Right.
26:40
Kimberly: Sometimes it's really vulnerable, like I just demonstrated in that scenario, but sometimes it's just being able to take a step back and say, even in my own head and heart, how did I hurt this person?
26:53
Kimberly: There's a brokenness in our relationship and so I recognize that there's conflict here and I just want to ask some questions, like when we're curious, when we're doing science projects and we're learning about science as kids, we have to be curious, we have to ask questions.
27:09
Kimberly: Right, when you're reading a book and you're doing a literary analysis, you have to ask questions and wonder what's going on.
27:12
Kimberly: I think that's how we should approach conflict is.
27:14
Kimberly: Let me ask some questions about what's going on to myself or to those around me, or to some confidants outside the situation, so that I can try to figure out.
27:23
Kimberly: Maybe there's more to this story than I'm just letting my narrative tell me, and I think in that we start to find some resolution and that's where we start to have peace horizontally is when we can start to reconcile hey, this person didn't intend to hurt me.
27:46
Kimberly: I can understand that they thought this or may have thought this or may have thought this.
27:52
Kimberly: We don't die hard on the assumptions that we make.
27:55
Kimberly: Sometimes we don't even realize they're assumptions.
27:57
Kimberly: But we are so quickly making assumptions relationally in our minds about why people are doing what they're doing.
28:02
Kimberly: Right.
28:03
Kimberly: Rather than taking a step back and being curious and saying maybe something else was going on Right.
28:06
Kimberly: Rather than taking a step back and being curious and saying maybe something else was going on.
28:08
Kimberly: Right, because all we bring to the table is our perspective, our lens, and until we are willing to peel that back a little bit and look a little bit deeper, we're not going to have peace, we're going to have conflict, because we're just focused on this, is what we're dogmatic about it.
28:24
Kimberly: This is what happened.
28:25
Kimberly: I know this happened, this is what I felt, this is what you did into the story, and sometimes our perspective is true, right, right and it's real.
28:36
Kimberly: But but being able to take a step back and and realize probably most of the the again, I always say we're talking like base level conflict here.
28:44
Kimberly: We're not talking about very traumatic situations, right, so, to give the caveat, but in these relational spaces, most of the time there is more going on to why someone did something than we think.
28:55
Kimberly: I often say you can apply for five people can apply for a job, the same job, but they all have a different reason that they're applying for the job, and so it's that we can't see people's intentions, we can't see their motivations, but we are judging them for those intentions and motivations all the time.
29:14
Elizabeth: Right.
29:14
Kimberly: And so the way to have peace, I think horizontally, is sometimes it is to have a ceasefire, sometimes it is to say, all right, let's, let's just stop you know, let's just stop the firing at one another, let's stop the accusations.
29:31
Kimberly: But sometimes having true peace is deciding to be a peacemaker.
29:36
Kimberly: Oftentimes we talk about peacekeeping when peace isn't really there.
29:42
Kimberly: So there's not peace to keep, but we have to go back to a language of peacemaking.
29:46
Kimberly: Peace to keep, but we have to go back to a language of peacemaking.
29:50
Kimberly: I have to decide.
29:51
Kimberly: I want to make peace with you, which is about reconciliation, which is about being calm, which is about being settled.
29:58
Elizabeth: Does that make sense?
29:59
Elizabeth: Oh, absolutely, and my mind is running through a thousand scenarios as you're talking of just different relationships I've been through through the years and or even other people's relationships I've watched, and you often see that dance where one person wants peace at all costs, and so they will not voice what they truly want or how they've been hurt, because it's just they so desperately want to avoid conflict, they're not going to talk about it, but that's not true peace, because they're not okay on the inside but they're choosing not to engage.
30:33
Elizabeth: And then typically in a relationship like that, the other one is the one who's like I don't like having conflict with anyone, and so I immediately want to address it, I immediately want to fix it, I immediately want us to be able to move on, and God has a great sense of humor of typically marrying those two people together.
30:50
Elizabeth: And so you have one or in friendships or work relationship, whatever it may be you have one who is aggressive and one who likes to retreat, and it is a dance of trying to figure out how do you really come to that place of peace.
31:06
Kimberly: Yeah, and in that, elizabeth, in saying that if you take those two positions like you've got this person over here and then this person over here, as you were just talking about both of those people they think they want peace.
31:20
Elizabeth: Yes.
31:21
Kimberly: Right.
31:21
Kimberly: So they are in an innocent, naive, good spot.
31:26
Kimberly: They want peace.
31:26
Kimberly: An innocent, naive, good spot.
31:31
Kimberly: They want peace.
31:33
Kimberly: The person that's wanting to be more assertive and aggressive and fiery isn't going to achieve peace in their natural way, because there's already conflict between if you've got conflict between the two right that type of person is going in with a fire, with a zealousness, with an intensity underneath them that tends to just be charging in, and by doing that you end up sabotaging what you really want, right.
32:01
Kimberly: So you have to choose to do it differently.
32:03
Kimberly: Same is true over here for the person that tends to say I want peace at all costs, so I'm going to avoid it and so I could just have peace.
32:10
Kimberly: Same thing by avoiding having an honest conversation about what's really going on inside of you, which is terrifying, you are not achieving peace.
32:21
Kimberly: You are sabotaging the peace you're looking for.
32:24
Elizabeth: Right.
32:24
Kimberly: So it gets down to being able to be, like you said a minute ago, being it's really vulnerable to have those conversations.
32:30
Kimberly: We got to choose to be vulnerable internally first and go okay, here's what I.
32:36
Kimberly: I don't just want peace at all costs, I don't want just everything to be okay.
32:42
Kimberly: I really got to take a look inwardly and see what's going on, and that's often where we'll start to recognize that our vertical relationship is very connected to our horizontal relationship.
32:52
Elizabeth: Oh yeah, yeah, it definitely is.
32:53
Elizabeth: I think you can go all the way back to the garden in the fall.
32:56
Elizabeth: You know, as soon as sin entered the world, that covenant that we were talking about, the covenant of peace, was broken between Adam and Eve and God, and immediately they start turning on each other.
33:07
Elizabeth: It's that woman you gave me, it's the shame and the blame and the conflicts, and I think a good as you're talking about relationships, I'm just thinking about them.
33:16
Elizabeth: The other thought I had is sometimes my definition of peace and how I restore peace in a relationship.
33:23
Elizabeth: Is I get the other person to agree with me that my perspective was right?
33:26
Elizabeth: Sure, you know, that's my definition of peace and that's not peace.
33:31
Elizabeth: That is me having an argument until I make them bend to my will.
33:36
Elizabeth: But and I mean, as you said, there are everyone has their own perspective and even if my perspective is true and I am reporting this is what really happened is true and I am reporting this is what really happened.
33:50
Elizabeth: Therefore, we have a conflict because you did X, y and Z, just berating that person and getting them to agree with me that they were wrong and they should have not done that.
33:57
Elizabeth: That doesn't really bring true peace.
34:01
Elizabeth: That just brings, honestly, submission.
34:03
Elizabeth: But I am wired towards a black and white, right and wrong type of mentality because of the way God has designed me, but that needs to be cloaked so much in the grace of God and the Holy Spirit so that when I am in conflict, my goal is not to prove that I'm right, it's to how do I restore the broken places in me and help restore the broken places in them so we get back into community?
34:30
Elizabeth: And so there's a lot I've had to learn about.
34:33
Elizabeth: You don't have to like.
34:34
Elizabeth: Sometimes you just need to overlook an offense.
34:37
Elizabeth: You know everything doesn't need to become a battle and sometimes you just got to let it go.
34:45
Kimberly: Yeah, and, as you say, that that's where I go to it.
34:48
Kimberly: It's a deeper, internal work, right?
34:50
Kimberly: Because if we peel that back a little bit and I say this because I know you and I'm similar but different is we're wanting to be right, which means I don't really think I'm right in Christ, like let's take it all the way down to that, like I'm not really believing my right in Christ, let's take it all the way down to that.
35:09
Kimberly: I'm not really believing my righteousness in Christ, so I'm trying to define it somewhere else and get it somewhere else.
35:12
Kimberly: And so that's where, when we talk about peace, it's not just this sitting by the ocean or by the lake or at the mountains, whatever, feeling calm and tranquil.
35:22
Kimberly: It's a state of being rooted, deeply rooted in our relationship with God, knowing that in the eye of the storm, in the eye of that hurricane, we have this unshakable assurance that he's with us and that he is guiding things and he is moving things and he is holding things back, no matter the circumstance.
35:43
Kimberly: So that's how, when we live in that deeply rooted space, that's how we can cultivate peace in our lives and allow it to flow from within us and touch the lives of others and create a more helpful, peaceful world.
35:58
Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely.
36:00
Elizabeth: And it all goes back to that covenant relationship with Him where we can live.
36:05
Elizabeth: We can.
36:06
Elizabeth: We don't, but we can live without fear and without worry all the time, if we truly understand that he is with us and there's nothing we're going to go through that he will not be there for us.
36:19
Elizabeth: But that's the struggle.
36:22
Elizabeth: Is we so quickly believe that's not true?
36:26
Elizabeth: Yeah, so, kimberly, before we end in a time of blessing, I do just want to read one scripture in Isaiah that we've kind of referenced, but I think it just really encapsulates all that we've talked about today about the covenant of peace with God, and that's Isaiah 43, 1 through 5, that says this is what the Lord says he who created you, o Jacob, who formed you, o Israel, fear not, for I have redeemed you, I have summoned you by name and you are mine.
36:53
Elizabeth: When you pass through the waters, I will be with you, and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you.
37:00
Elizabeth: When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, the flames will not set you ablaze, for I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.
37:10
Elizabeth: You are precious, and and I think that just is a great summary of what we talked about, which is it's that covenant relationship of love with him Doesn't mean we're not going to go through the fire, the rivers and the storms and other things that are mentioned in that verse, but he's going to be there.
37:31
Elizabeth: As you said, we can live in the eye of the hurricane, because at the very center of the hurricane is the calmest atmosphere you'll ever find.
37:41
Kimberly: So we want to bless you today with this blessing of peace Spirit.
37:46
Kimberly: Peace is not an emotion.
37:48
Kimberly: Peace is a person.
37:50
Kimberly: Be blessed with peace, not as the world knows peace, but the peace that is Jesus living in you.
37:57
Kimberly: He can never be taken away from you and you can be blessed with peace at all times that Jehovah Shalom gives.
38:06
Kimberly: It is a calm, quiet state of rest and a harmonious relationship with God, with yourself and with others.
38:14
Kimberly: Be blessed with the good news of peace.
38:17
Kimberly: How pleasant it is, how sweet and delightful and wonderful it is, how ordained it is for brothers to dwell together in peace, in the unity of the spirit of peace.
38:27
Kimberly: Be blessed with the rule of the Prince of Peace in your inmost being.
38:34
Elizabeth: Peace stands in contrast to war, and you don't need peace unless conflict is a possibility.
38:42
Elizabeth: Be blessed with putting on the sandals of peace.
38:45
Elizabeth: Be blessed with putting on the sandals of peace, being prepared at all times to bring the gospel of peace into all circumstances and to all people.
38:52
Elizabeth: Be blessed with living as a peacemaker, for you are the child of the Most.
39:19
Kimberly: Your God of peace keeps your whole spirit, soul and body blameless and above reproach in challenging relationships.
39:27
Kimberly: Be blessed that you are adequate for the task of peacemaking that your Father gives you.
39:33
Kimberly: He has prepared you and equipped you.
39:36
Kimberly: Be blessed with the peace that comes from knowing he is your partner in each task.
39:43
Elizabeth: In His farewell words to His disciples, jesus gave peace as a gift to them from himself.
39:50
Elizabeth: Be blessed with experiencing the God of peace, obviously present with you.
39:56
Elizabeth: He is the author of peace of mind, tranquility, harmony, reconciliation with him and a sense of his favor.
40:05
Elizabeth: He is the source of the blessings of health, welfare, prosperity and every kind of good.
40:13
Elizabeth: Be blessed with receiving the Lord of peace himself with you, always, in every way, dispensing his peace to you.
40:20
Elizabeth: Be blessed with the fruit of peace that the spirit of peace produces in you, your response to his peace.
40:28
Elizabeth: I want to thank you for listening to the Father's Business Podcast.
40:34
Elizabeth: This podcast is made possible through donations by people like you.
40:43
Elizabeth: To donate, go to wwwthefathersbusinesscom.
40:48
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