Latest / Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano / The Hairy Chin: Women’s Health Education + Advocacy with Spencer Moore

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The Hairy Chin: Women’s Health Education + Advocacy with Spencer Moore · Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano

• Lyndsay Soprano (00:01) This is Giving Pain Purpose, where we talk about the game of living in and with chronic pain and trauma. I'm your host, Lindsay Soprano. On this show, I sit with the warriors, loved ones, doctors, holistic practitioners, and those who walked through hell and want their voices heard. You don't have to heal quietly and you don't have to fight alone. my God, welcome to Giving Pain Purpose. Before we get started here, I want to quick throw a shout out to a new online community that is launching soon for women, built by women who are ready to transform their pain into power, where our stories are shared, our support is real, and pain is given purpose. It's a community for women who have survived what changed them and live with the aftermath of it every day. And it's called the Pain Hub. So head on over to thepainhub.com, put your email address in, and I promise we will not be spamming you and RSVP guests for the launch because it's coming up really soon. So let's get started here. My medical issues started when I was nine years old. And if you've been listening to the show long enough, you know that. And it started with insomnia and early onset menarchy. Now I know why both are tied together. And that is because of doing this show, actually, that they were tied together because of childhood sexual trauma. And as I was putting this episode together for us today, I was thinking about my health journey and my doctors in the past and specifically my childhood doctor. And his name was Dr. Duda. And like literally Dr. Duda. He was just like the sweetest man. I trusted him. I thought that he was listening to me. I felt comfortable around him. I felt like I c that he was taking care of all of my needs. And now as I reflect back at the the ripe age of forty-eight years old, all he did was tell me that I was too young to understand the needs of my body, that I was fragile and too dramatic. That I was dreaming up things that were going on with my body and to come back next time when I calmed down. And none of that was true. I mean, maybe a little bit about the dramatic part because I am a bit dramatic, but I have a hundred percent had a reason to be dramatic at that time because of what had happened to me at such an early age and continued to carry on through into my last marriage. And I look back on all of the doctors and all of their lackadaisical ways of handling me, if you will, alongside the massive amount of trauma that was lined up right next to the health issues. And I'm completely dumbfounded that they didn't ask questions along the way about what was actually happening to me. And so here I am, almost 50, and I still feel unheard and left behind when it comes to the medical system here in the United States. And I felt That I had a huge voice back then, but it continued to fall upon deaf ears, which I know all of us in the chronic illness and chronic pain society understand. And so here we are advocating for ourselves hour by hour, inch by inch, together. And I have just the little cutest pie on the planet today to talk with us about her health journey and how she has become the most amazed balls advocate for women's health. So I would like to introduce you to my amazingly adorable, hard not to call little love bug guest Spencer Moore. Hi, baby. Spencer Moore (03:40) Hello there. What an introduction. Thank you for having me. Lyndsay Soprano (03:45) I'm so happy to have you. So, Spencer is a women's health advocate, certified health coach, breast health educator, and the woman behind the Hairy Chin podcast. After more than 30 years of navigating complicated, overlapping mental and physical health issues, she was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer at 40, caught on her very first mammogram. That was the moment that pushed her to ask a question a lot of us have probably screamed at some point. When we're constantly told to advocate for our health, who the hell is actually teaching us how to do this? She's an expat, and as some of you know, I am on my way to do the same thing, but she's from North Carolina here in the States and now based in Barcelona, using her own lived experience to help women ask better questions, speak up, and stop getting lost in the space between patient and provider. She's also a certified female health coach from Girls Gone Strong, a certified breast educator with Know Your Lemons Foundation, and so much more. Huh. I'm exhausted already, girlfriend. So okay, let's get started. So I'd love to start with your relationship with health care or sick care, as I love to call it, which began when you were like eight months old, right? Spencer Moore (05:02) Yeah, I mean, I was a sick baby. I was a sick child. I I had really severe ear infections right out the bat and my eardrums would burst and it was quite terrible. And at eight months old, I had my first procedure where they put tubes in my ears. And yeah, it just kind of went from there. Throat infections, you know, strep and tonsillitis and ear infection, sinus infections. You know, I look back in my childhood and I I had a like a a really decent childhood. I mean, I was on the swim team, but they would put tons of wax in my ear. And I played soccer and I was big into art classes. And, you know, but then the other side of that was I was home a lot from school. I missed a lot of school. I had multiple surgeries. You know, by the time I was 10, I'd had over a handful of surgeries. I I think that my identity was really wrapped up in kind of being sick from a very young age. Like it just was kind of part of who I was, you know, and and that That foundation is is tricky as you get older. because being sick is not what you want. But then also it's if you feel like it's part of your identity, it's hard to separate them. and so yeah, I I think that as I got older, especially in my teens, you know, mental health started to become a real challenge for me. And I really struggled. I just didn't really know where I landed, who I was and kind of how I fit into my equation, my own equation. It was challenging. Lyndsay Soprano (06:29) Yeah. I mean, I can understand that being I mean it being sick and and not wanting to be a disease, you know, because we you know, the medical world wants to put us in these boxes that you have this and this is what you want, this is who you are. I don't want to define who we are. But like you've s talked about on your podcast, The Harry Chin, you've talked about it at Infinim, about these overlapping health issues and where what And I have experienced the same thing my entire life. I have them right now as we're sitting in front of each other. You know, it's like, well, what is chicken before the egg? Like what's causing that? Is that causing this? And all of these things. And it's so exhausting to tell your story over and over and over and over and over again and be an advocate for yourself when you're at such a young age. Spencer Moore (07:13) Look, I I was really fortunate both of my parents were in the medical field. They advocated for myself. And I believe I have a really strong foundation to advocate for myself because of that foundation that they kind of showed me along the way. but it is really challenging because there are these overlapping issues that occur, especially when you're right out the gate, kind of have these complications. and a lot of people don't connect the dots. So then as you get older, you start looking back. Like I look back down my childhood and I think I was on steroids antibiotics for eight years. For eight years. And then of course I got eczema as a teenager. Of course I started spiraling into severe, severe depression as a teenager. I mean, it just makes sense looking back now. And nobody was putting them together back then. Like it just didn't, you know, it was I had my dermatologist, I had my psychiatrist, I had my therapist, I had my stomach, my my gastroenterologist. Nobody was piecing these things together. And I think that for me is the most frustrating is that things are so specialized and our bodies are one, one being. It's a closed loop system. I mean we don't, you know? And it's really for me that has been the most challenging. I get really stressed when I have to go see a new specialist because they want to know my history. And I'm like, all right, buckle up. You know, and they look at me and they shake their head like, wow, like this is so overwhelming for us to hear it. And I'm like, Lyndsay Soprano (08:39) Well I mean that Spencer Moore (08:39) Imagine what it's been like to live it, you know? Like, we have to connect all these dots. And it's like, well, yeah, you do, you know? Absolutely. Lyndsay Soprano (08:47) Absolutely do. In fact, I've gone through like I I went like cold turkey and said, I am like not gonna take anything. And anybody that's listened to the show knows that I haven't gone the opiate route for pain. And so I do my THC, I do my C B D, and I'm fortunate enough here, and especially in Los Angeles. I mean, you could throw a frickin' rock at a dispensary. So, like, we're very, very fortunate here that I can get the help in that department for that. And that also helps with mental health and helps me with depression, helps me with anxiety as well. because I did go down the go to the pain doctor, go when I was diagnosed with CRPS specifically, go to the pain doctor, do all of the things. And I got on some really, really scary medications that cause some very, very scary things to happen. And I I mean, I almost died because I almost killed myself. And that that's some really scary stuff to to even talk about out loud. But now that I'm comfortable doing it, I talk about it all the time. And talk about suicidal ideation because when you live in this kind of pain and you live with this kind of stuff, you're just like, my God, I have there is no, there is no hope left. And so I keep bouncing from doctor to doctor. And I'm like, I just want a general practitioner, just a general practitioner that I can talk to about anything and everything that will advocate for me. I am going down to see a specialist down in San Diego, but I have it all printed out. It's a document. Here you go. Read it. These are all the things I've tried. These are all the medications that we've done. So on and so forth. So what are you doing with your life right now from a health perspective? Like how are you doing with your health? And let's move into from that into a little bit of like how you're advocating for women, because that is such a huge part of what you're doing. Spencer Moore (10:24) Yeah, you know, it's like you said, like you have it in a document, your history. So I have mine in a document, you know, and I update it all the time. And I always have my medication list ready. When I go to a doctor, I have everything written down. So when they ask me questions, it's like this is everything I'm taking. I mean, my medication list is like a page long. I think that my health is complicated. And when people ask me how my health is, it's it it's how I respond. I just say, look, my health is complicated. And it's kind of a day-to-day week to week thing for me. Look, I have, you know, severe migraines that come and go. Some months I'm really good. Other months, you know, it's just not so great. They can take me out for days. And I, you know, I was getting really super vertigo. I had a a car accident. I was 18 and I had a a quite serious injury to my neck. And so they did a neck fusion with a cable and bone marrow. And Look, it's been 25 years now. And these fusions, you know, they degrade your bone. They you can have issues and complications. So I get quite severe vertigo, which is somewhat associated with inner ear stuff and cervical stuff. So, you know, it's just things like that. I I find that in the past years I've I've found some really great relief from some really debilitating illnesses. Like I had very severe eczema for 30 years. Last summer I could not walk. It was so bad. I couldn't put socks on my feet. I was on prednisone all year long. I got on an amazing injectable medication in November of last year. And it has changed my life. Absolutely from zero to from zero to a hundred changed my life. but that was kind of one of the things that I was juggling for a really long time. But it's it's amazing. And I I forget how what life was like before this medication. because it it affected my life every single day, affected my sleep, everything. So, you know, I that's kind of how it goes with me. You know, things wax and wane, they they come and go. I find a solution, and then I I have to be really grateful for that solution. And I am, but I have to remember that gratitude of, you know, thing things can improve, things can also worsen. but you just kind of have to roll with it. and I find the more kind of agency I can have over my illnesses and kind of the the complicated things that are overlapping in terms of just having things organized, being able to speak to my my doctors with clarity, you know, a lot of these, I talk about kind of skills, how advocacy is a skill set. A lot of them are really boring. Like tracking and keeping documents updated. knowing where I put the prescriptions I need to get filled or like now in Spain we have this whole digital prescription thing. And it's a it's honestly it's just a nightmare because you have 10 days to fill them, the the QR codes expire. Sometimes the the refills don't don't kick in. so you go refill your medication and it's expired. And then you have to get in touch with your doctor. You know, staying on top of things like that, I think helps me manage my stress level for all the things that I'm managing. But yeah, it's it's still Poor health, chronic health is really just it's really challenging. I it's interesting. We we have a neighbor here and she's been the caretaker of her husband who had cancer years ago and was treated and he's had some complications. It's been a long time. And she fell and hurt her shoulder a few weeks ago. And she was completely undone that she couldn't take care of herself, but also couldn't take care of him. And she's always had really good health. And so it kind of reminded me that anytime we have limitations from anything. It's not just, you know, chronic, but like acute illness can be so stressful for people. Chronic illness can be so stressful for people. It's just, it's, it's across the board. It's overwhelming. And that's where I find kind of the skills and and being able to feel more agency around it. It it helps me. Lyndsay Soprano (14:26) Absolutely. And like one of the things I have is I have everything in Google Drive. So I can always pull it up on an app. Like if I accidentally, like, shoot, left it on the printer. Like once again, it's there, it's on the printer. Like I wanted to have the paper. Either way, I've got the drive. I can text it to somebody, I can fax it to somebody. People still fax, which is just unbelievable to me, by the way. Unbelievable. In fact, this morning I've been faxing medical records to another doctor because of apparently a potentially botched ear surgery. Which is heartbreaking for me because of my opera singing and everything. Like right now I can't even sing. I can't hold a note if I had a bag in my hand, which is Spencer Moore (15:00) Like Lyndsay Soprano (15:01) absolutely devastating me. So that's also for another show. But, you know, while we're while we go through all of these processes of constantly the doing all the tricky things that we're doing, going from this doctor to that doctor. And it's hard to believe that these healthy people that are out there are so incredibly ungrateful for the fact that they can go and walk to their mailbox, which I cannot do. But they can go take their dogs for a walk, which I cannot do. They can walk through an airport, which I cannot do. Not right now. I like to say not right now because I'm not going to let this completely get me down. But that's just part of what we have to do. We have to keep fighting for it while in the process of grieving what our bodies used to be like or what we wanted our bodies to be like and what we've lost. How has grief been like for you in that regard, especially starting at such a young age? Because I feel like that's a hard question for you. Cause it's like, well, I don't even really know what any kind of normalcy actually may have even felt like because that was your normal. Spencer Moore (16:07) Yeah, I think that that nails it. That nails it because no, it it it my health, my chronic conditions, however you want to call them, because I don't have one, you know, umbrella diagnosis. And I think that's challenging for people to understand. You know, I think that when I was diagnosed with the the early stage breast cancer, that was a lot more tangible for people to get like, okay, wow. And then, you know, you have your treatment and I was very fortunate it was a very, very early stage. but you know, it's like Vodummy do like endometriosis, migraines, eczema, you know, all these different things. It's it's not an easy way to like wrap it up in a bow and make it easy for people to just get. And I think that that is probably where some grief comes in for me because I I think that chronic illness can easily become like hypochondriac. she's really dramatic and she has all these issues. And it's like, it's another thing. and it's now it's another, you're sick again. I thought you got better. now you're not well. And I think for I know for me that has been really challenging for my mental health. when I get reactions or when I have doctors that kind of dismiss things, that to me is where a lot of sadness comes in because it's it's also a lot of confusion for me of am I doing this to myself? Is there a reason why I can't overcome this very severe chronic fatigue that I have? And I can't. get out of bed, you know, is this chronic fatigue or is it depression? Or is it both? Or, you know, I for me I find there's a lot of sadness there because it's just a big web of overlapping things. And and I I have felt very isolated in my journey. And there there's a lot of grief in feeling misunderstood and feeling alone in your journey. You know? It's just it's it's just a lot of sadness. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (18:05) It is. It's it's I I mean, I cry every single day of my life. Hard stop. I cry every single day. And some of it is because I am grieving that I can't dance the way that I used to, and that I can't ski like I used to, and I can't do the physical things. But the mental like exhaustion of managing chronic pain and chronic illness is like nothing like it's I always this, Meryl Streepink got shit on me because like I have to perform every single day to make it through. Because if you guys look at Spencer and Lindsay right now, we both are two adorable little blondies and we both feel like shit today. Okay. From 5 a.m. this morning when I'm in bed. And she was also in bed, but she's in Barcelona. So we're both nine hours apart and both in bed. And so it's just, but we, but and I needed 15 extra minutes. And so we to to start the show today. And so like we understand each other. And it's and the the group, unfortunately and fortunately, seems to be growing and widening. Is that because we are bringing it to light more and people are feeling more confident in speaking their voices like you and I are doing right now and like we do on both of our shows and in our advocacy? Is that what's happening? I I don't know. What's your take on that? Why are why are we, why does it feel like more of us women, and guys, I know that you guys have issues too. That's for a different show right now because women definitely have more health issues and the We can blame a lot of it on you guys, by the way. But you know, it's like what is this widening that just keeps happening? It feels like it's getting wider and deeper and broader and higher and like what's your take on that? Spencer Moore (20:01) You know, I think that in the healthcare companies, insurance has done a number on women. I mean, we are too complex to fit into these tiny, tiny little appointments. And, you know, we talked about specialization. So if if you don't have a GP in at a clinic that is just really observant and that is really gonna help point you in the right direction, then that is like you just hit a wall right there. You know, and then it's you have to push yourself to Advocate for yourself and find new doctors, find specialists, find people there within your network. You are hunting for somebody to help you. And you hit more brick walls there, you know? And then I mean, I think the environment has played has played a really big role of the environment we live in. We are exposed to so much more than our bodies have ever been used to in the past. You know, and I mean. Autoimmune disease now. I say this all the time, but it's three out of four people with autoimmune disease are women. It's 75% lead. I think it's more than that now. you know, these are these illnesses, these syndromes that just are not easy to unpack. They have non-specific symptoms. They don't normally show up on a on a regular blood test. if you want to get diagnoses, you normally have to pay out of pocket to find specialists that can diagnose you. And then it's not until you get that diagnosis that then you can get. treatment for it, which is just a whole other thing, as you know very much about after treatment, what comes after that. Because you know, just getting a new diagnosis, there's a lot of sadness and grief in that of, my God, how am I going to move forward and handle this? You know, and I mean we can talk about stress because stress is it's true. I get really frustrated when I hear, it's stress or it's sleep or it's this. I I mean I I I believe that there are many layers to this. I know that a That my health has very much been impacted by traumas I've had and by super stressful periods of time that I've gone through in my life and ending, you know, relationships, moving to Europe. I mean, it sounds so amazing. she left the States and moved to Barcelona. And it was that amazing, but there was a real reality behind that of integrating myself in a new culture, in another language, literally knowing no, not one person when I got off the plane when I first came here. These all take a toll on the body. And I I think that it's all of these overlapping, you know, variables. I don't think that a lot of people realize how all of that becomes this perfect storm to poor health. Lyndsay Soprano (22:30) Stress specifically, I know for me with CRPS with central nervous system conditions, specifically, not to say that it doesn't affect other other other issues, health issues as well, but with stress, I mean, there are literally, I always say that I'm like literally just standing on a tightrope and like one specific person can say something and off I go. And I'm tumbling and I'm tumbling and I don't have a parachute and I've had to learn how to like hit the ground without splatting. Yeah. You know, like and sometimes splatting and like putting myself back together like Humpty Dumpty. It's just like it feels like I have to do that far more than I should. And you were saying something earlier, Ann, about how, you know, people doubt us and what have you. My my one of my mom's best things that she says to help support me in my health journey is what now? Yeah. okay. Thank you so very much for that. Instead of, hey, you know what? Interesting. That makes me curious. I'm gonna go online right now and I'm gonna do a little research and I'm gonna try to see if I can help my daughter out. You're fortunate that you had parents that totally helped support you. How is your relationship with your family and your spouse like for you? Just generally speaking, or you can get specific about it because I know that I've had to kick a lot of people out of my life. I've had to have some serious conversations with some others where it's like there are some. Spencer Moore (23:58) Really big Lyndsay Soprano (23:59) big boundaries now. So how's how's handling relationships going for you? Spencer Moore (24:06) I think you probably know the answer to that question because it's it's Lyndsay Soprano (24:09) But Spencer Moore (24:09) a chat. Look, it it's challenging. I mean, I would say, you know, I I I love my family very much. They're very supportive. I have incredible parents that are very supportive and understand how complex things get for me. You know, I'm very grateful for that. I think that for me, the relationships in terms of social relationships, it's where it gets quite challenging. You know, there was a a time period that I was on immunosuppressants and I really didn't want to go out in public. I didn't really want to be with people. And so I was home for months and months, just not going out because it was like flu season, different things. And I was like, I'm just not risking it. I'm just not going to risk it. And, you know, it's it's I think hard for people to understand, especially that I don't have this kind of umbrella diagnosis. You know, it just kind of seems like it's one thing after another. and and you know that that really does Like I said with grief, it really does affect your mental state. when when you just feel like it's it's just always something. I think, you know, I'm what I I've also had these these moments of letting people go in my life, getting into new chapters and moving forward. And, you know, I don't want to have to fight for somebody to understand what my life is like. I also don't want to complain about what my life is like, you know. And and I also don't want to hide what my life is like. I mean, there's a balance to be had with all of that. because I for a very long time, I would never leave the house without full-on makeup, getting dressed, like just looking like I was put together. And I think it was also what I wanted to project of myself. I want to look like I'm put together and that I've, you know, been able to take care of myself enough to get up and take a shower and dry my hair and put on a cute outfit. I started letting that go in the past few years because I just don't have the energy to put on that facade. And I think that's just kind of you have to accept that it's the way it is. I'm very fortunate that I have a spouse who is incredibly caring and supportive of me, but we've been on a journey. My husband has been a rock for me, but it got to a point with him where we ended up in therapy because it just felt like. We were getting into this place of how do we communicate what's going on? Because he was exhausted. He had carried me through a lot of treatments that I had that, you know, I really needed to lean on him. And I still wasn't better. And, you know, I say better in kind of quotations, but you know, it just it keeps going. It's not like there's an end date. It's not like we just arrive and we say, like, okay, I'm healed. Let's let's just move forward. Like this just keeps going. And and that's okay. I mean, I want it to keep I want it to keep going, you know, I want life to keep going. But we ended up in therapy because we needed to learn how to communicate with each other. For him to be able to say, Let's have a night together that's just us and we're not gonna talk about health or medications or we're gonna like kind of take a vacation. Yeah, one of my favorite movies is called What About Bob? Do you know this movie? Lyndsay Soprano (27:22) Gosh, yeah. Spencer Moore (27:24) But he says in the movie, he says like He gives him a prescription. I'll let I'll let you guys Google it. But he gives him a prescription and it says like take a vacation from your problems. And that has stuck with me since I was probably eleven years old when I first saw it. And I loved it. And you know, that's what we started doing. We started kind of taking a vacation from our problems. It's it's a balance. And sometimes you get right, sometimes you get it wrong, and it's just you just keep going. Lyndsay Soprano (27:51) Yeah, because I mean these these people that are in our lives, especially the ones that are like, you know, like our rocks, my sweetie is absolutely incredible, but also feels incredibly helpless. Spencer Moore (28:02) What do I do? Lyndsay Soprano (28:02) Like he wants to show me the world and he wants to show me all these incredible places. And we're very fortunate that we can go do this bougie stuff that we get to go do and see all of these incredible animals and stay at the giraffe manor where we wake up where there's a giraffe that's gonna literally like poke its head in and like lick my face and wake me up like what? But you know, we're like, we're trying to still live and still explore and still do these things. And so I have a wheelchair so that we can do those things. I or my first trip to Europe was the first year that I was in a wheelchair. And so it was really challenging for both of us. A, we had never traveled together to Europe. And, you know, we got, we got going and it was like it was We were gonna make it or break it, like on this trip. And man, man, did we make it? And we packed way too much shit. And we had so much stuff. We were trying to get on trains in Italy. We're like wheelchairs and like I mean, with the two of us, it was insane. And we have an age difference too. So we're 26 years difference. And so, I mean, between the two of us, I mean, we've just got so many other things that are going on along with it. But we also have had to go into therapy and talk about like how can we take these breaks from Always talking about how shitty Lindsay feels and how shitty Bill feels because he can't help me. But he is helping me every single day, all the time. And I make sure that I let him know how grateful I am for everything. I mean, everything from unloading the dishwasher to, you know, picking up dog poopy. You know, like all those things, they they're small, but they're so big for us at the same time. And you know, it it. We have to choose the right people in our lives. And I think that's something that as we get older, we we tend to be able to be like, I don't need that person anymore in my life. And that's great. It's Spencer Moore (29:53) That's right. Lyndsay Soprano (29:54) the I don't give a shit channel kind of a thing. But I I also have like I said earlier, we definitely have to talk about that, the the boundaries that we have to set because I don't want to be a burden on somebody. I don't want them to always feel like, God, I don't want to ask her about her pain, but I also don't want to ask her about how her pain is. You know, like I I feel really, it's so tricky because I don't want my friends like not want to hang out with me because they like see me cringe when I stand up. You know, it's like, God, it's it's hard on us on that side of it too, for our caregivers to understand it's really hard for us to see you guys see us live like this. Spencer Moore (30:33) No, it's very true. You because they feel helpless and you also feel helpless. You feel helpless that you can't be better for them not to feel helpless. And it just it really does it it's it's a it's a really challenging place to live. Lyndsay Soprano (30:51) It is. And this is why you have turned your life into advocacy. So I want you to talk about what you're up to. Cause you're up to a lot of things. And I know there's stuff that's coming out. Yes, there is. Spencer Moore (31:08) There is. There is. Yes. And I wanna move on because I don't want you crying because it's gonna make your ears more congested. Lyndsay Soprano (31:14) I always cry on every episode. Everybody knows how far are we into this thing? Like thirty minutes. Of course I'm a c I but I'm late. Spencer Moore (31:22) We have we have to move on. You can't you're Lyndsay Soprano (31:24) Tearing up. Stop it. Spencer Moore (31:26) okay, let's see. So my work is the Harry Chin. I have my podcast, which is now this week is releasing the second half of the second season. I love this podcast. You know, we talk about relationships and it's through this advocacy work is where I meet women like you and so many other women that are just really inspiring beings. You know, and they just really do help lift up, you know, li lift us through these like storm clouds that are going on in our lives, you know. And you kind of like it's like when you're in a plane and you take off in a storm and then all of a sudden you just like get above the storm and it's like you see the sun and the clouds. Like that's like this Lyndsay Soprano (32:07) That's what I feel like Yeah. Spencer Moore (32:08) yeah, the the really white puffy ones. And and I feel like that's what this advocacy work does is it kind of takes you above the storm and you get that perspective also. I think it's it's amazing listening to your story and the life that you live. It's very different than the life that I live. You know, we have similarities and things that we go through, but we also have very different challenges that we both face. And it's it's nice for me to be up there and see all of that because I do think that that gives us all a perspective that is needed. so that's really what I love about the Harry Chin is it's trying to share information and educate without being. overwhelming because right now, you know, I see and I've seen it for myself. I've gone into these spirals over the years trying to find answers to all of my medical questions. And when my doctors don't give them to me, then I go online and I go to Google and I go to Instagram and I go hunting for some answer that is going to give me some relief from what I'm suffering from. And you know, I've seen over the years how a lot of different people and Companies and clinics have led me astray. And that is something that I think is really important is developing agency. It's, you like we said, there are relationships that we say, like, nope, never again. Or it's it's time for them to move on. And I have that now with medical offices and with doctors and with health information online. I mean, I can spot a health influencer from just like a glance at their profile. And I'm like, Nope, I am not buying your supplement. I bought it 10 years ago. I'm not buying it again. So yeah, it it's it's important work because I just don't think that there's a lot of clarity out there. And I'm not bringing clarity, I'm not diagnosing, I'm I'm trying to help women develop the agency to see that clarity for themselves. Lyndsay Soprano (33:59) Yeah. And I mean with both of us, I mean well, and that's that's one of the things I've I've always been a lifelong learner. That's just like forever, I'm always gonna wanna learn. I'm always been researcher. I wanna know why, how, to what extent, whatever. But but with both of us, what we talk about on our shows, my show's definitely different than your show, but there are some overlapping things, obviously, because you're on it. but you know, we're we talk about that that we both make it very clear that we talk about shared lived experiences in our education, that we're not giving medical advice here. We're not doctors. Spencer Moore (34:28) Dars. Lyndsay Soprano (34:29) We should be. We should be at this point. In fact, the the second episode of the season, one of the Galzos on my show, Alicia Briggs, she said something that was so like sting in my head. She goes, you know, everybody that's a doctor either graduated at the top of their class or the very bottom of their class, and they're still a doctor. And I was like, That's right. Hmm. That like Totally like made me shudder a little bit because you're like, that dude is giving surgery, and also this guy's giving surgery. So it's just like it's just so interesting making sure that we are as educated and as smart as we possibly can be about our health care. And us women in particular, we have to fight harder for it, which sucks, but you know, it is what we have to do. Spencer Moore (35:25) You know, one of things I love about what you do and about your podcast and is you're so open about how layered health is and how it comes from a lifetime of experiences and traumas or you know, d different things, they all layer on top of it. It's a big onion. And I I think there's a lot of responsibility to be placed on the patient for realizing that, you know, we all want to go to a doctor and the doctor says, here's your magic pill. Extra pill and you're gonna feel great tomorrow and you're gonna live all the dreams that you want and they will all be realized. And that's just that's not the reality most of the time. Maybe some people find their magic pills and I am very happy for them. Some people don't. And there's acceptance with that, and with that is grief and all of the stuff that comes with it. So I really do believe in the patient doctor relationship. I really right now, you know, we have to inevitably we will be in front of a doctor. It is what it is. You know, maybe AI will take us in a new direction. Who knows? It's kind of terrifying. But right now we need to develop Lyndsay Soprano (36:28) I think it's just gonna kill us all, which we might just need another ice age. Like, let's just reboot. Spencer Moore (36:33) We don't need yeah. I mean I th that's your solution to everything is reboot, reboot it. Rebuil, I don't even rebuild. Lyndsay Soprano (36:42) Yeah. Spencer Moore (36:42) Yeah. Yeah. But you know, like I mean, until that point that we could just hit a reboot, which might not be very long away, we have to figure out how to live in our bodies and how to start with the relationship with ourselves because that really is where all this starts. Because how we relate to ourselves is how we relate to other people. So if we don't have a connection with our bodies, if we can't say, this has changed from my baseline, this pain is new, or this pain is different, or you know, things are happening different to my body, if we can't say that, then how can we expect a doctor or a physician or somebody else to help us find the cause and the solution to that? Lyndsay Soprano (37:22) They're they're our client is kind of how I look at it too. Like, I want to know their resume. I wanna know where they went to went to school. Did they graduate at the bottom of their class or did they graduate at the top of their class? I mean, like, let's let's think about this a little. Spencer Moore (37:37) I want the pictures. I want the proof. Lyndsay Soprano (37:39) I want your diploma, I want your freaking GPA, I want, you know, I want your transcripts. Like if we're giving them all of our info, I feel like we need to be a little bit We need to have a little bit more like we have to research. We have to do it ourselves because they're not gonna offer it up to us. But it is an interview process when we're finding these doctors and and we have these conversations and we're like, hey, this is what I've been faced with. Are you the guy for me or are you not? Because if you're not, tell me right now, because this is a lot that you're gonna read right now. And if you're not down for like going home tonight and talking to your wife or your husband. About, like, hey, this cute little blonde chick came in and she was in her wheelchair today and she was sobbing and she s gave me a 20 page document and said, help me. And I've read through it and I don't think I can help her. And I need to tell her I'm not gonna be able to help her. Or is your conversation, I wanna fucking help her. What can I do? And have a conversation at dinner about it because that's what we're doing at dinner. We're sitting having our dinners and we're talking about how I can help Spencer and how Spencer can help Lindsay and how we research each other and how we find flub-ups on our LinkedIn pages together. Like this is what we do for each other. Spencer Moore (38:59) It's true. It's very, very true. We have talking Lyndsay Soprano (39:02) Be grateful for your Spencer Moore (39:03) abilities. They're very, very impressive. Lyndsay Soprano (39:06) Very, very impressive. I should have been in the FBI apparently. Spencer Moore (39:11) I I can give you testimony. You could have been. I won't feel. Thank you. You know, I think it's true. I think it's interesting about doctors because look, I've been in front of doctors that were top of their field, top, top, and they were assholes. They were like ego, like they don't, they don't want you to cut, they don't want it to be an equation of doctor and patient. Like I can tell so easily when I go into an appointment and I give a doctor, you know, my medical history and my list of medications. Some of them are like, ooh. And their eyes kind of get big and they're like, All right, let's look through this and other of them like push it back or you can kinda tell they glance at it and they're like, Yeah, no, I I'll I'll ask the questions. I'll ask the questions. You know, we'll get to that. Lyndsay Soprano (39:53) Right back and then they go out and then they're like and then the nurse comes in and is like, All right, so we have a prescription for you. Spencer Moore (40:00) You're looking great. You won't refer to a psychiatrist. Lyndsay Soprano (40:04) Yes, yeah. Spencer Moore (40:07) you out, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a lot of you know, the so-called bedside manner of physicians that that you can tell as a as a kind of a lifelong patient, you can see it quite quickly. Are they gonna be open to being here to help me? And, you know, I I do I do think what you said is, you know, interview them, check them out, see, see if it's a good fit. If you don't feel like it's a good fit, if you don't feel like you can be honest with them, or if you feel like you're gonna be ashamed, telling them the reality of what's going on in your life. Move on. You know, a doctor patient, it's a relationship, you know, and it's never a one-way street. And if it is, then it's not the right, it's not the right fit. It's not the right relationship. But these take time. It takes time to develop the skills, to go in there as a patient, to understand how the doctor is, to have the agency to say, I'd like to get a second opinion, or thanks, I'd like my records. I'm moving to another clinic. These things are uncomfortable. You know, these all are kind of these muscles we have to flex as we. Navigate for what we think is best for ourselves. Lyndsay Soprano (41:10) That muscles that we have to flex. Cause it's true. It's it's it's almost like we have to go in with some armor on because you have to go in and you're like, Zina, the warrior princess. Like I'm walking in and I've got like all my gear. I'm ready to go. I've got like my toolbox, I've got my backpack full of all the things that I've already taken that have followed me through my life. And that's why I'm hunched over like a question mark. I'm exhausted from carrying all of this. And I would like to have some of this come out of my backpack. How can we help do some of these things? And so You know, and and also another thing is also looking into seeing if there have been any lawsuits that have gone on against the doctor that you are actually looking at. Yes. And I say that because I went, there's a doctor that's in Los Angeles. I'm not gonna put his name out there right now, but he has more damn lawsuits against him. He's specifically quote unquote a CRPS specialist. And this guy has hurt more patients than you can possibly imagine. One of them is a girlfriend of mine. And it is no small deal. So make sure that you're look I mean, you can find out this information. It's not that difficult. It's public record. And specialists is just a word that people put on their website and marketing, just like Spencer said. Marketing. It's just getting drunk and throwing out ideas. It's just what marketing has always been. Well, my God. I loved every second of this with you and I knew I was coming too. Spencer Moore (42:35) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (42:35) Well, is there anything left that we need to like pluck before we hit the dusty trail here? Spencer Moore (42:41) I will share that I'm starting a Substack. I am a writer. Part of my my background is writing. And so I'm really excited to be starting a Substack and share just a lot of stuff that doesn't end up on the podcast. I mean, you know these podcasts are there's big production behind the scenes. They take a lot of time and there's a lot of things that I don't get to talk about because I just don't have the resources to just do more shows and more shows. So I'm excited to have that. So that's coming out. And then my my new episode's released this week. So that's also really exciting. And you will find Lindsay on my show later in the year. So I can't wait for that. Lyndsay Soprano (43:14) I know, I know. We're very excited around here. there are so many things that she does on top of the Harry Chin podcast. You can find her all over the place. Go to theharrychin.com. Spell hair correctly. I'm not even gonna spell it for you. If you can't spell it, there are other issues going on in your life. That's great. she's on LinkedIn, she's on YouTube. Like she mentioned, she's got Substack. It's theharrychin.substack.com. And you can go to the Harrychin.com as well. Find her, look at her, her marketing is beautiful. everything about you is wonderful and I am just blessed to have you come into my world and I'm grateful for this conversation and the conversations that we're gonna continue to have at five o'clock in the morning, Pacific Standard Time. Spencer Moore (43:55) I am grateful for you. I'm grateful to be in your world and for you to be in mine. It's just it's women like you that make this really just feel good. I don't know how else to say it. It's just it's a it's a special feeling. So thank you for having me on the show and just for all of that we have together. It's great. Lyndsay Soprano (44:12) You got it, babe. Thanks so much. You are exclusively invited to share this Harry Ast chin VIP pain journey together. Let's get to the heart of how to heal with you by mine and Spencer's side. Please follow Giving Pain Purpose wherever you digest your podcast content. We will be there. Visit us at giving painpurpose.com and follow us on all the socials. Thanks for listening, my little VIPs. Catch you on the other side.