Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Cesar Quintana's Son Was Abducted By His EX & Taken To Ukraine | Fireside Chat 239

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Cesar Quintana's Son Was Abducted By His EX & Taken To Ukraine | Fireside Chat 239 · Honey Badger Radio

0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian and
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this is the Fireside Chat. And on today's show, I have a special
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guest. His name is Caesar Quintana and he has a really interesting and crazy
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story to tell. He came recommended by Paul Elam, who I had the
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pleasure of having dinner with recently, and he said, hey, you should
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talk to this guy, and he put us in touch with each other.
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So welcome to the show, Caesar, Thank you you Yeah. So all
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right, So I looked at the references that you sent me. I don't
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really think I could even do a preamble justice with this, So why don't
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you tell me a little bit about your story, starting with like what the
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basic premise is, So your son has been abducted by an ex right or
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your ex ex wife I assume yes, x wife, ex wife, and
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she took him away from you against or orders and fled to Ukraine and from
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California, right right, right, Okay, So let me let's get a
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little bit of backstory and then tell me about what happened and where things are
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at right now. So, first of all, who is your ex and
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how did you meet her? Well, I used to meet an admissions councler
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for a college back in twenty from about twenty ten till about twenty sixteen,
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and my wife I met her there. She was working there as well,
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back in late twenty fourteen or so, and that's how we met admissions counselors,
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both at the same school. Yeah, you guys hit it off and
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dated for a while. And how soon after you met her did you marry
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her? So I met her at the last part of twenty fourteen. Yeah,
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we probably dated for about a year and then got married after that in
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twenty sixteen, mid twenty sixteen, got married mid twenty sixteen. Yeah.
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And I don't know if it's okay to say her name, but Antonia ash
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Aslanova. Is that how you say it? Yes? Yes, okay,
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good, I pronounced it correctly. That that sounds like she's from that part
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of the world. Is she from like Eastern Europe? Yeah? Ukraine?
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She's from you, So she's from Ukraine? Okay. So you met this
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Ukrainian girl in California you were working together or a lady rather, and you
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had a child together, and your kid's name is Alexander. Yes, okay?
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And and how how long until I mean, I have assumed that there
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must have been like a period where everything was fine and then it was less
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fine, Like what what's if? You don't mind you know, sharing that
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with us. Yeah, and you know, it was a regular relationship with
3:15
regular problems. Our son was born. She became pregnant in twenty eighteen,
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and our son was born in twenty nineteen, and I think that's really when
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things rarely went downhill. She's an only child herself, her parents are from
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you well, she's from Ukraine, but her parents lived in Ukraine, and
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when our son was born, her mom pretty much insisted on basically moving in
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with us, and that just created a lot of a lot of tension for
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us. It was it was and it was funny because you know, she
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and her were didn't get along either, but that was really the main issue.
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Obviously, I don't want my in Lafe was living with me, but
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that really became the the when things started to really deteriorate with her mom.
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With her mom being with us, and I mean, when our son was
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born, we lived in a one bedroom apartment, which was fine for her
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and I and then having her mom move in with us, so so her
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mother wanted to be a part of this thing, this whole setup, and
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this is something that you did not like you you really weren't thinking about that
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or you didn't you didn't anticipate that. Is that right? Yeah, that's
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right. Yeah, you know it's funny. I presume that you are Latino
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like me. In my in my family, it's normal for women to live
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with their parents until Rustinian Puerto Rico, where I'm from. You know,
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there'll be women in that are middle aged and they still are in the house
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because there isn't a lot of land, so and then they won't move out
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until they marry somebody. But then after that, like you know, I
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like my parents won't try to live with me, you know, And I
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wonder if that isn't like a cultural thing or if it's something else. I
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just out of just thinking out loud, I guess no, I agree,
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And I'm yeah Mexican, and it's similar, very much the same. I
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mean, I have family members now that are married and live with their family.
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That is common in Hispanic and a lot of a lot of cultures.
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But you know, I didn't and you know, it can work. I
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think it could possibly work if everybody knows their place. But in our situation,
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the mom was definitely trying to assert herself as basically the woman of the
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house. And if she would have just in place that yeah, that might
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that might work, and it might even be something beneficial, right when I've
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seen it work in you know, in Mexico mainly. Yeah, so there
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was so so your mother in law moves in with you, and there's a
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bit of a power struggle going on. You know, You're you're trying to
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manage the home, working with this woman, and your mother or your mother
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in law is trying to sort of, you know, position herself in an
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a position of authority perhaps, and your your wife is sort of going along
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with it. I assume, like she doesn't necessarily stick up for you in
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this situation. Yeah, and it was unwillingly going along with it, like
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she would do it, but then she'd be pissed, and then you know,
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she wouldn't confront her mom about it. And it's just kind of in
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a way take it, not in a way, but seriously take it out
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on me. She'd be giving me an attitude when she was really pissed at
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her mom. Yeah, yeah, oh I know about that. I know
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about that. Yeah, So okay, so your mother in law moves in
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this ever since you had your your son, and things are getting more and
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more sort of tent, you know. And so when what was the what
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was the breaking point? Like what, well, how did that happen?
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Like what what? What ultimately happened? So in about twenty twenty, around
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the time that the whole you know, shutdowns began, Oh my mom,
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Yeah, I pretty much saw her mom, like, you have to go
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home. And by the way, I mean her mom. She has her
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husband, she has her home in Ukraine. So it wasn't like she was
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a widow or single herself. She had her she had her husband and her
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home back in Ukraine. And I just told her, you need to go
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home. Very entitled, right, This woman was very entitled, And I'm
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not sure what happened. She said, yes, okay, I understand.
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And this was about you know, the shutdowns started in March or so,
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right, and then there was a brief opening in April, and that's when
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she was supposed to go home. But what ended up happening was about mid
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April, about April twenty third, I believe I was awoken like at two
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am in the morning, and arrested by two police officers that yeah, claiming
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that I had I was just putting handcuffs and you know, I was complying,
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and I'm like, what's going on and said we'll talk about it.
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Put me in a squad car. I sat there for about thirty minutes,
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and then the cop came back and said, you're under arrest for domestic violence.
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And yeah, that's what happened. So you were arrested for domestic violence
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out of a blue like when you when you fought? Did you fight with
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your wife? I don't mean physically, but like, did you guys argue,
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you know, like any anybody else? Was there any any let's say
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precedent for this, you know, like anything like that. Well, I
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mean, actually, weeks before this happened, we got along the best.
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But I I suspect because you know, her im was supposed to go home
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that month. She ended up not going home. So what ended up happening.
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I was removed from my home. My mother in law ended up staying
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there for several months after that, so I guess they just made the executive
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decision to remove me from the house. Did they show you any like there
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was was there any evidence like anything. They said, well, this is
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you know, like video or here's some injuries or like what what are the
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what were the specific allegations against you? If any? That? Yeah,
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that I had that I had hit my wife and that I had threatened her
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mom, And there really wasn't. I was arrested. I bailed out,
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you know, very shortly after that. I was only in jail for like
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two three hours. Oh okay, okay, but the year So you were
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detained on the accusation alone, yes, and and theysued a temporary restraining order,
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but the charges were dropped sly after, mister mean or you know,
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there's to the way they handle it. And they have a felony district attorney
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and a misdemeanor district attorney, and they both declined to prosecute for lack of
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evidence. But it was enough to remove me from the home, right' That's
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what they wanted, was you out of the home. So so what did
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you do after that? Well, shortly that happened, I think on a
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Thursday night or Friday night, you know, I wasn't allowed to contact my
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wife or go near my home. I went to my mom's house and I
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was there and this was like the weekend and Monday morning or Tuesday morning,
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shortly after that incident, I was served with divorce papers and a request for
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a permanent restraining order from my wife very shortly after that arrest. Yeah,
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and now where were you staying in the meantime my mom's house. You were
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staying at your mom's and so she served a per minute restraining order on you.
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How did that go through? Like did that end up happening or did
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you fight that? Did you beat that? Yes? I beat it.
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First of all, the court was delayed. It's supposed to take place,
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like, you know, thirty days after you're served with it, that request
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for for a minute restraining order, but you know, with the whole shutdowns,
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it was delayed. I was served with that sometime at the end of
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April. And then the so the COVID stuff was like not helpful basically like
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the lockdowns, I put it that way, and the way that it slowed
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things down in general was made it worse. Is that what you're saying?
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Yeah? Yeah, I ended up taking about three months before I actually stepped
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into the court, uh to for that for that hearing. Mm hmmmm hmm.
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All right, Well, How did you feel about that? Like,
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was it shocking? Did you feel like this was like out of the blue.
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I mean, yeah, I was obviously devastated. You know, I
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loved my wife. Was shocked to hear the you know, when I got
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the you know, the temporary restraining order that night that I was arrested.
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I was just thinking, well, maybe it was a misunderstanding or maybe something
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or you know, I was just speculating. But when I was served with
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the divorce papers and looked at the her request for a permanent restraining order,
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to read all these things she was accusing me of was frankly devastating. Now
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I look back, it's, you know, a little bit funny that I
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was so naive for sure. Yeah, but yeah I was. I couldn't.
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I was shocked to hear to read that stuff, Like it was the
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first like you know, red pill moment as they say, oh, yeah,
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that'll do it, right, that'll do it. Yeah, that's that's
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the saying go that I I have started saying this lately. I even said
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this to Paul. I said that, uh, you know, all men
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are are tread until they find out, so like there's no you know,
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I have I have all the sympathy in the world for you, because I
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see it happen around me all the time, even when I warned my friends,
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you know, like, hey, you know this is the these are
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the systemic problems and you should be careful, and they'll be like no,
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no, no, Like some of them won't go in. They'll go without
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a prenup or or something, and they get screwed over. I've watched it
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around me. It hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it around me
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a lot. So yeah, it's it's it's devastating for the famous Uh my
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girls different or not my girl, that's yeah, they'll say that, they'll
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be you know, no not my girl. Yeah. It's like, well,
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maybe it's not about like that, you know, maybe it's like the
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problem is the risk itself, you know. Okay, So I don't know.
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You said that you saw some shocking stuff on there that you you never
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like, you know, allegations or or a kind of narrative in the papers
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that you wouldn't believe were being said about you by someone that you thought loved
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you. Can you go into any of like specifics on some of them,
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because it's some some of the stuff I've heard about what women will do and
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when they want to, you know, like destroy a man. It can
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be pretty shocking. But I don't know if the audience can you know,
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can get get it from the horse's mouth, you know. So is there
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anything in there that jumped out at you that you're like, holy crap,
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I can't believe she said this about me? Well, I mean then,
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yeah, I was shocked. Now, I'm not surprised by anything, but
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you know, things like that, I that I would hold her, that
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I would grip her by them all and threaten her. That was one allegation
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that I that I would squea to the point where she couldn't breathe, like
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you know, just like bear hug bear, like bear hug her trying to
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get her to comply. There was an incident, and it was and it
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was and it was one of the things too. You know, I was
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naive and trusting, but obviously she you know, we knew each other's passwords
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to our to our to our phones, right, and she she you know,
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I saw these screenshots that she submitted from me texting her, Hey,
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you know you're gonna regret it if you ever try to leave me. Which
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means she logged into my phone and text herself from my phone. Oh no,
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it looks like yeah, thankfully you know that it was, Well,
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we can go. We could talk about that later. But what else she
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had? Like a hand mark? It took a picture of an injury that
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I supposedly did. Yeah, and and you know she's she's probably her mom
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was taking the picture, but something lest it and there was a hand mark,
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but I had no idea how it got there. That kind of stuff
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is there. You know that I had threatened her mom, just a bunch
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of demeaning things that I was saying, you're from this third world country,
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You're lucky you're even here. I mean a marriage kind oh stuff that you
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said to her about Oh okay, okay, so she thought you And this
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was before we're going to get into like when when she took your son in
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a moment. But what what I guess you were about to say? You
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know, fortunately written with regards to some of these allegations like the like her
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using your phone to try to frame you? What how did how did you
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get out of that? Like that all sounds terrible, but how do you
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fight against it? Well? It was it was actually turned out to be
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pretty good because there was like about fifteen or sixteen allegations all about that same
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kind of along those same lines that I hit her, or that I threatened
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her, that I chased her, But there was it was you know then
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at the time I was working in I'm in Orange County, and rain were
17:12
familiar with this area. I worked in Riverside, so I would actually take
17:17
the train there so on a few of those occasions, or I would take
17:21
the toll roads with an uber, right, I wouldn't drive to my office.
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It was about an hour and a half from where I lived at the
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time. So like as an example, we'll just use an example, say
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like March fifth, he threatened me, and it was two o'clock and he
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threatened me, and he hit me in the back at two o'clock in the
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afternoon, and I had trained tickets to that I was out of you know,
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I had a train. You were, yeah, yeah, So there
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was a lot of stuff like that. Same with the with her text messages
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to herself from my phone, the grammar was was not a bright you know,
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English was the second language for her, so the grammar was off and
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it didn't it seemed suspicious that I know, I don't I generally have decent
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grammar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're messed up. So I don't
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know if I can jump ahead to the hearing or let's let's get yeah,
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let's jump ahead to the here. I was just you know, like I'm
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just sort of laying out, you know, some roundwork so we can see
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like the path of them, of the relationship that went into the marriage,
18:23
that went into the child, and then the mother in laws off and so
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we can see where we are now. Out of curiosity, was your ex
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wife or your mother were they? Were they citizens? Did they have green
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cards in the US or were they here on a visa or what? Yeah,
18:41
my wife was a She came here on a student visa in twenty eleven
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and she became a permanent resident around that time, so she did have documents.
18:48
Her mom was here on a tourist visa and was only allowed to be
18:52
here six months at a time. Yeah, was she trying to stay here?
18:57
Then? Yes, the mom was trying. Okay, So I'm just
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because it's okay, so a plan is forming, as it were, it
19:07
seems it seems interesting, but okay, so the mom is on a on
19:11
a tourist visa. And how long after she came here did all these allegations
19:17
come out, Like was it like within that six month period or was there
19:19
up here when she had to go back and come back or did she use
19:23
this instance to stay? Like what was? What was? What do you
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know about that? Yeah? Well, you know she was supposed to leave
19:30
around the time I was arrested. We had we had come to that agreement,
19:34
and if I recall correctly, we had even bought her plane tickets to
19:37
go back to Ukraine. And again, mind you, it wasn't one of
19:41
the main reasons is ring her. You know, my mother in law and
19:45
my wife just couldn't get along. I mean, I know that it was
19:48
a really love hate relationship between the boat all. Yeah, so it wasn't
19:52
so much, and it was more so you know, obviously I didn't like
19:55
her having her in our house either. But yeah, so she was supposed
20:00
to leave that that month, but obviously she ended up not she ended up
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not mm hmmm mm hmm. Okay, So let's go to the court hearing.
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So how how do we get to this point and what happened? Well,
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I also want to say that during this whole time I didn't even have
20:17
access to my son, who was not even a year old at the time.
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I was completely Oh yeah, right, the whole time that you were
20:22
under this uh restraining order. So you how much time did you miss with
20:29
your son? Like I assume you were there when he was born, but
20:32
how long between that and like when you were given the restraining order? I
20:36
had to leave? How much time? Like six months less? About four
20:40
months? About four months? So he was four months old when you were
20:47
when I was kicked out of the house. He was about nine months old.
20:52
Nine months old. Yeah, and then I was he I missed his
20:56
first birthday basically. The hearing was shortly after his first birthday. And yeah,
21:07
all right, so you didn't really see your own son for the whole
21:12
time this was going on. Let me, I'll just tell the audience.
21:18
If you guys have any questions or comments for for Caesar, you can send
21:22
a super chat a rumble rant shout out to the Rumble Gang, by the
21:26
way, and you can send us a super chow by going to feed the
21:32
Badger dot Com force. That's just a tip. There's a link scrolling down
21:34
at the bottom. You might see that underneath the Jojo Cam. Okay,
21:38
so yeah, just if you want to say anything, please send a send
21:41
something through and ask questions, right, he'll he'll do his best to answer
21:48
them. Okay. So what happened next, Well, me and you know
21:56
what, we prepared record and went to the restraining nord which training in order
22:00
of court hearing. Where'd you get your lawyer from? Out of curiosity?
22:04
Just wind you like to do someone or just google family law attorney you know
22:11
near me or whatever. It just got someone else called one first or second
22:15
result that came to that. Yeah, okay, I was just curious,
22:21
all right. So what happened next? I'm sorry, Well, I mean
22:25
during the court hearing pretty much we didn't even get we we didn't even get
22:32
halfway through the hearing before the judge said, I'm giving my tentative decision and
22:37
I'm not grounding this restraining or I have a serious problem with credibility. Do
22:42
you? And he asked the judge asked, she asked, my wife's attorney,
22:48
do you want to continue? And he said yes. So we continued
22:52
through the hearing and ultimately, you know, you know, when the judges
22:56
give their speech at the end of the MM hmm. They explain their ruling.
23:00
Basically, he just said that he had she had a serious prom credibility
23:03
that wasn't really any Yeah, and he said, I don't believe this man's
23:07
abusive. He's missed all this time with this child. And you know,
23:10
obviously the two of you don't belong together, but hopefully you can cooperate and
23:15
be good co parents for the sake of your child. She gave my my
23:21
my wife, full custody, and I got a couple of visitations, you
23:27
know, a couple times a week for a few hours a day. That's
23:32
what she gave me at that time. But something funny happened that day.
23:37
But we can get to we can get to it when you want. Yeah,
23:40
I'm ready. I mean, I don't know if like that's a bit
23:42
of a digression, but of what's the funny thing that happened that day?
23:48
So that happened August third, twenty thirteen, I'm sorry, twenty twenty.
23:52
August third, twenty twenty. In that very same day after she got full
23:56
custody, she got a DUI. Oh no, yeah, it was taken
24:02
to county jail for a few days, and a few days after that,
24:07
my lawyer filed the next part, K and I got full custody of my
24:11
son, I think August eighth. So that's what happened that day. Did
24:17
she did she have a history of like drinking generally, like like did she
24:22
have a problem with that? Well, I would say I would say yes,
24:27
but more so like and I see it in Mexican culture too, like
24:30
people don't understand, like you can't even drink one or one or two beers
24:37
here and you'll get a d u I. Right, We're really serious about
24:40
the UIs here, And that's what I think she never really understood. Oh
24:42
so you don't think she was wasted, but probably was driving should not be
24:48
driving for sure? Yeah yeah, yeah, right, Okay, I'm just
24:53
saying like I don't want to presume that she's just like total train wreck.
24:59
But okay, so you so she got full custody and we got the d
25:07
u I thing. Did you were you still not able to see your son
25:15
or did you see him for a while? No, I mean I got
25:18
full after she got the DUY. I got full custody. Oh after the
25:21
Yeah, after the UI, you got full custody, right right? Yeah,
25:23
Okay, So what I guess what that's that's an important detail of the
25:27
do U I thing. I don't think that's the next question at all.
25:30
But so what happened next, Well, it was I would say it was
25:34
the best few months of my life to this day to have my son.
25:38
He was about a year old at the time now, and you know,
25:41
we lived a pretty good life. And how was he doing that at that
25:48
time? Like walking, talking and baby talk? He would understand, he
25:52
would say, Papa, yeah, really talking. He was only a year
25:56
old. And but you know, it was just gave a lot of purpose
26:00
to my life, you know, going to sleep early, getting up early,
26:03
doing things with him. It was it was a great time for me.
26:07
We really formed a strong bond during that time. Did you have any
26:11
help with him, like from your like your family. I watched some of
26:17
the you send me some videos and I saw there were some other people and
26:19
I think assume they are like either friends or family members. Yeah, family
26:23
members, my brother and my mom, my dad, you know, they
26:26
would watch him. Thankfully. I worked from home for a couple of years
26:30
now, even before the pandemic. But you know, I I I pretty
26:34
much handled him. I mean I would sit here in this desk and he
26:38
would sit next to me playing his games, and he was he was a
26:42
pretty well behaved boy. You know, we take walks in the morning and
26:47
the evening. His mom my wife, she would have vegetations with him occasionally,
26:52
so she would take him a couple of times a week, but no,
26:56
no overnights. Yeah, and yeah, that's that's how it went over
27:03
two months before she took him. Well, you said it was the best
27:08
two months of my life. Took three three months. She took him December
27:15
fifteenth. I got him about August eighth, so it was a few yeah
27:23
all right, so uh okay, well what happened next? Well, December
27:34
fifteen or sixteen, she picked him up for her three hour visitation. She
27:41
picked him up about three o'clock in the afternoon. And how often did she
27:45
get visitations? Like, how did that work? She was entitled to three
27:49
visitations a week, but she didn't always she didn't always follow through on them.
27:56
Yeah yeah, So so three visitations and they're three hours of visit,
28:03
right, yeah, okay, all right, not a lot of time.
28:07
I would I would probably have taken advantage of much as much of it as
28:11
possible. But is there were there any other ways that she or her family
28:17
helped him out, Like did they you know, like by him things,
28:21
send you money or anything like that. Not so much, you know.
28:25
And I and I feel I feel for my son's mom in a way because
28:30
not like her mom really was a mastermind behind all this. And obviously she's
28:36
an idiot who listening to her, but yeah, I really was her mom
28:41
a mother in law. Yeah that sounds that sounds like it's right. I
28:45
think it sounds to me. And I mean I'm not a psychologist or anything,
28:48
but sounds to me like your ex wife being a single, like you
28:53
know, an only child with a mother that is like very controlling, like
29:02
she's like uh you know, uh, there's like that term the devouring mother.
29:07
You know, she she wants to live out like vicariously through her kids
29:11
or through her kids kids and and becomes you know, really manipulative, and
29:18
and she doesn't like they tend to be like assole to people that they consider
29:25
to be outsiders, like you like like husbands, you know so and uh
29:30
yeah so, and and they will use like their children. And I think
29:34
that's and I'm not I'm not exonerating your wife. I think that she should
29:40
have stood up to her. But I can see where the dynamic is at,
29:42
right, So yeah, he's nuts. Just share one detail. She
29:48
actually wears my my son's mother, my wife's engagement diamond ring and her wedding
29:55
ring. Your mother in law wears being ring you gave your wife and her
30:02
wedding ring as well, and her wedding ring that is his day. Well,
30:04
I don't know, I haven't seen her to this day time. That's
30:07
yeah, Well I think that's creepy, that's all I'll say to that.
30:10
Yeah, that's to me, that's creepy, weird. Like if my mother
30:14
in law was wearing my wife's ring, I'd be troubled. I'd be like,
30:18
wait, my wife should be wearing that, you know, because it's
30:22
yeah, I don't know, that's just that's just try me. Huh,
30:26
that's nuts, right, Yeah, it's it is. It's nuts. Yeah,
30:30
that's putting it lightly so all right. So then, uh, was
30:37
there anything between that moment and when your son, Like when did when your
30:45
son was gone? Like when you learned that your son was gone? Like
30:48
what you said that she came for a three hour visit and what happened after
30:53
that? Did she just not come back, like what happened? Yeah.
30:57
I called her and I said, it's six o'clock. She's like, I'll
31:00
be right there. And I waited ten minutes and I said, you know,
31:04
at six o'clock or you know, you're already late. What's the deal?
31:08
And I called her no answer. Then I text her again in the
31:12
car and the text didn't go through, and I called nine one one.
31:15
Right after that, the cops came. They didn't really take me seriously at
31:22
first. They stayed with me. We went to my old residence, you
31:26
know, where she was still living with her with her mom. Basically,
31:33
you know, broke the back door to get in and the whole house was
31:37
empty. It was empty, it was empty completely, and the car was
31:41
not there. And you know, the cops, you know, father board,
31:47
but they didn't really do anything after that. I called at midnight and
31:49
I just, you know, I was looking through some of my stuff here
31:53
and uh, I told him that the passport can I well, yeah,
32:00
I just pretty much told him. I didn't know what to say, so
32:02
I just told him my son's passport was missing. It turned out out to
32:07
be the case, but I know, I at the time, I just
32:08
wanted them to do something. Yeah, you didn't think they were taking you
32:14
seriously. So you were like, well, you know, yeah, I
32:16
get it. And so they came back at around midnight, detective, and
32:21
he took my information. You know, I had pictures of I did have
32:24
pictures of my son's passport, my wife's passport, and you know, he
32:30
was he was here. He kept going outside to make phone calls and then
32:34
he said, you know, we already got the people working on this.
32:37
I'll call you back if there's any updates. And you know, he left
32:43
around here at two am to thirty in the morning. Obviously, I was
32:47
didn't go to sleep at all. I couldn't sleep, kept dialing my son,
32:52
you know, my wife's phone, and kept going to voicemail. And
32:55
then a couple of hours in the morning, like maybe eleven thirty, that
33:00
same detective came with another detective knocked on the door and he came in,
33:07
Can we come in? Yeah, and he says, we have good news
33:09
and bad news. I was like, what the hell, Like, I
33:13
don't know what to think. Is my son alive? She killed herself?
33:15
And he's like, the good news is we found your son. The bad
33:21
news is he's in Ukraine. And I was like devastated, like how could
33:25
this be? You know, he's just assumed that there's like something that will
33:30
stop him at the airport or something. But he just explained to me that
33:35
my son's family, you know, her mother and her grandmother really were able
33:39
to get Ukrainian citizenship for my son, since you know he's his mom is
33:45
Ukrainian. They were able to get a Ukrainian passport for him and just said,
33:50
oh, yeah, we were just here on vacation. We're going home,
33:53
and that's how they left the US. The US. Wow, Yeah,
34:00
were there any like now when you look back on it, because like
34:05
you show up and the place is completely empty, like it was like nobody
34:07
was there, Like were there any signs? Did you ask yourself if you
34:12
like, were you know, had any like was this completely out of the
34:15
blue or when you look back, you say, oh, there was some
34:17
evidence that something like this might happen. Yeah, definitely, I think back.
34:24
You know, she obviously had that DUI. It was actually the U
34:28
I hit and run, so it was a serious. Oh it was a
34:30
serious situation. Yeah, that's serious. And it was a d U I
34:37
hit and run, so she was I don't know how much trouble they were
34:39
she was going to get you know, women always get treated with kid gloves.
34:45
But that was one thing that she had said, you know, when
34:49
that happened, obviously we spoke in between during even during our divorce. She
34:53
she made an effort to want to reconcile, but you know, I wasn't
34:57
interested. So there I think of that. I think of her mom.
35:04
She often make comments about going back to Ukraine, like like trying to convince
35:07
me, hey, let's all just move to Ukraine and stuff like that.
35:15
What else, you know, she at one point she asked me if we
35:20
should make our son ne a Ukrainian citizen, which I wasn't really poor,
35:23
but then I thought, you know, she doesn't really need my permission legally
35:28
speaking, so you know, stuff like that. More so, my regret
35:32
was, you know, I could have probably I could have insisted on her
35:37
having supervised visits, and that's what I should have done rather than you know,
35:43
just too. I wasn't trying to like be nice to her, but
35:46
I just wanted things to just move on, right, Like, let's let's
35:51
just finish this divorce, Let's just do this amicably and then move on with
35:54
our lives, right. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't trying to be like,
35:59
you know, I could have been a jackass and said and I should
36:01
have, you know, should have put my son safety. But I could
36:04
have just said, you know, no, you're gonna have supervised visits and
36:07
all. But even that, I knew that those my full custody was only
36:10
temporary. I knew eventually we'd have fifty to fifty. So I even said,
36:15
let's just finish this divorce. We'll have fifty to fifty custody, and
36:17
you know, divide up what we have and let's just move on with our
36:21
lives. That's really what I wanted. But I should have thought more,
36:25
you know, what's in the best interest of my son. You know,
36:29
obviously I've seen her, and one thing I didn't mention. I saw her
36:32
and her mom come to blows a few times, like pulling each other's hair.
36:36
So it was very dysfunctional environment. And I should have really thought,
36:39
like, yeah, I should have thought more of supervised visits. Yeah,
36:46
that's that's crazy. And was that so that day when she came to pick
36:52
him up, Was that the last time you saw Alexander? No, that
36:58
was just the beginning of all this, so you've seen him since then?
37:02
Yeah, okay, all right, we're gonna get into that in a second.
37:06
I'm gonna read I got a super chow from someone that I'm gonna read
37:10
out really quick. So if you guys could again, you'll see it scrolling
37:15
across the bottom. Send a super child rumble rant or a super chat and
37:19
I will be sure to read it on the show while we're live. So
37:23
cright, indoors, thank you so much. He gives us ten dollars and
37:29
says, I wonder what in what part of the Ukraine she has taken his
37:31
son to? Hopefully it's the western side of Ukraine. They might even be
37:36
in Western Europe right now, come to think of it, Well, actually,
37:39
when this happened, the conflict had not started yet, right or has
37:45
it it had not? Okay, so when this happened, Russia had not
37:50
invaded yet. And we're but we're getting to that part. Yeah, so
37:52
what part of Ukraine was she? Do you know what part she was in
37:57
when she first came there? Yeah, the worst part, Mariupul. You
38:00
brame easternmost part, the easternmost part, so right on the Russian border,
38:06
basically, Mario, Okay, yeah. Yeah, so but at this time,
38:10
at this point in the story, Russia had not invaded yet. No,
38:15
so what did you what did you do next? So you learned that
38:20
your your son has been essentially kidnapped from you and taken to another country on
38:27
the other side of the Atlantic, and you're in California, so it's way
38:32
like way away, okay, So what do you do next? What's your
38:36
plan? And yeah, just to clearfight, Yeah, he was kidnapped.
38:39
She has charged with kidnapping. My son is registered as a missing person.
38:44
He's on the Missing and Exploited Children website. So yeah, he was a
38:46
straight up kidnapping. But what I did next? That happened, like I
38:51
said, mid December twenty twenty and about February third or fourth, something around
39:00
that, something about along those lines of twenty twenty one, So only about
39:05
a month, in a couple of weeks after he was taken, I got
39:07
my passport and I and I went to Ukraine. I went to Ukraine.
39:12
So you as soon as you were able to write, yeah, yeah,
39:15
So the passport process can be a bit of a pain, at least what
39:19
I got one yeah, yeah. So so you get on the plane,
39:24
you go to Ukraine as soon as possible. You know exactly what city she
39:28
went to or did you have to find her once you landed. No.
39:31
I had visited Ukraine once before when we were still married, but I didn't
39:37
go to her house. I went to the capital city of Kiv, and
39:43
there is a there is a treaty between the US and Ukraine and other countries
39:49
that to address these matters when parents take their children abroad, you know,
39:54
when they're not supposed to out of training children. So there is a mechanism
39:59
to go to. But in my opinion, it's a joke. I didn't
40:04
know it at the time, but it's a joke, especially when it's a
40:07
mom to kids. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah there's
40:13
something there on paper. But if you're a father trying to get trying to
40:17
find your kid, it's doesn't seem to work for you very well. So
40:22
you go to Ukraine and you go to the capital and you're looking for help,
40:29
I assume to like get your son back. Yeah, you know.
40:32
I hired a lawyer there. I had a lawyer and started the process.
40:37
There was some support from the State Department. They have a Children's Issue Division
40:44
two that they assigned this country country. It's called a country officer. But
40:47
they're useless in my opinion. I mean, I don't know if anybody ever
40:51
deals with them, and I'm not suggesting not speaking with them, but I've
40:54
spoken to dozens of parents and they also say the same thing, that they're
40:59
essentially useless. That's been my experience. Yeah, the district attorney here in
41:05
Orange County's child deduction unit, she she sent, you know, some documents
41:09
and a request to the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine. Of course, I
41:15
was ignored. They'd never replied to her. I was able to get some
41:21
visitations with him in Ukraine, and you know, in exchange for some support,
41:28
I did. I did it. I did end up doing that.
41:30
I don't know, I'm kind of jumping a head because I ended up going
41:32
from Kiev to East Ukraine. So I don't know how you want to take
41:37
this. Oh that's okay, Yeah, I mean we got about fifteen minutes
41:39
left. Uh yeah, So let's let's get to the part where you go
41:45
to Eastern Ukraine. Is that before and then the conflict happens after that or
41:51
what? Yeah? So I was there there, Mariupol. You can look
41:54
the city up one of the worst cities to be in the US. You
42:00
know, they would send emails to their citizens like warning, you know,
42:04
get out of the country. They were announcing war was imminent. This,
42:08
this core process to return my son was was pretty much a joke. And
42:14
I just took matters into my own hands and I got my son for a
42:16
visitation one evening and I just took him. I got you know, she
42:24
brought my mother in law brought him to the hotel for me to visit with
42:28
him for an hour. Thank you. You know, I was acting Sybil,
42:35
kind of playing a part, and I said, thank you, Yes,
42:37
in an hour, we'll be ready. And I just left out the
42:40
back door, jumped in a car with the driver and I had hired and
42:45
left and left drove for about fourteen hours. Where were you headed, Keev?
42:53
So if you were going to go to Kiev, get on a plane,
42:54
come back to the States, is that the plan? Yeah? And
42:58
I was. I was stopped on one occasion, probably five or six or
43:04
seven hours into our onto our drive, I was pulled over by the Ukrainian
43:07
National Police. They acted very aggressive with me. But now I think back,
43:13
I got it. I just had my son in my arms. So
43:15
I'm having my son in my arms. The cops made me get off of
43:20
the out of the car and they take me to the police station. And
43:24
you know, in Ukraine is not like here. Police Well I know police
43:28
can be difficult here too, but at least here you have some you know,
43:31
civil rights. Yeah, And so they were kind of taken back by
43:36
my attitude towards them, and I said, you know, you guys can't
43:40
hold me here. I'm an American citizen. You're making a mistake. I
43:44
called, I got on my phone and I'm like pretending I'm talking to I
43:47
did call the embassy, but they're they're useless themselves, of course, of
43:52
course. But I'm like, yeah, yeah, my name is Caesar.
43:55
This guy, this copy's threatening to kill me. He's got his gun on
43:59
his hand. His name is and I'm reading his name. I need your
44:01
badge number, sir. And so like they did get intimidated by that,
44:06
and actually I was able to leave. My lawyer actually showed up and we
44:10
got in the car and left and we continued on and I actually was pretty
44:16
much like in hiding in Ukraine. Oh, let me back up. Yeah,
44:22
yeah, they couldn't detain me right, But they didn't give me my
44:27
passports back, so they stole this Ukrainian police officer stole my passport. But
44:31
I was still able to leave and with my son, with my son,
44:38
and then basically I was just kind of looking. I was like in hiding
44:42
down an Airbnb for a couple weeks. This is January twenty twenty two,
44:47
so the war started February twenty twenty two, So this is how close things
44:52
were to the war time. So you know, I was with my son
44:59
for a while. I don't know, do you want me to where?
45:00
Do you want me to? S? Yeah, yeah, So just looking
45:04
for a way out, and eventually, you know, we did a Really
45:10
there wasn't there really wasn't any legal reason I couldn't take my son back.
45:14
He was an American citizen. I was able to get a second passport for
45:19
myself and for my son at the US embassy at this point out of curiosity.
45:23
At this point, was your ex wife like, like, was she
45:27
wanted for kidnapping or was this something that kind of got like a charge that
45:30
came after all of this, Now she was wanted for kidnapping almost immediately after
45:36
this happened. Okay, all right. So, yeah, so she should
45:39
have been by all accounts arrested. I guess being in another country, I
45:44
don't know how much immunity that gives you, but but yeah, I'm sorry,
45:46
go ahead. Yeah. And there's a whole thing regarding intervals change their
45:52
policy that they don't recognize parental child abduction as a as a crime anymore.
45:58
So there was at a point that they they did recognize it, and they
46:00
would put you on the red notice for the yeah and the yellow notice for
46:05
the child. But they stopped doing that some years ago. We did try
46:09
to do that, but they didn't. They didn't do it. But actually
46:14
I wanted to mention this kind of goes back to my mother in law,
46:16
like my son's mom. She pretty much said, you know, I told
46:20
her, let me take him and I'll help you get your charges dropped.
46:22
You know, I'll give you alimony and whatever. You know, I was
46:25
saying, whatever, just to leave, and she essentially agreed. It really
46:30
was my mother in law who was who was like a rabbit dog calling the
46:35
police telling him that I was going to kill my son, that I was
46:37
dangerous and all this. It really was her who who who was leading the
46:43
charge here, that's insane, man. Yeah, yeah, probably should have
46:46
met her before you married, right, spend some time with the mother in
46:52
law? Okay, So what happened when? We should feel like ten minutes
46:59
and I don't want to miss any of the good parts. So the how
47:04
long after? Like what happened next with I want to know, like when,
47:07
what the timing is when the invasion, when Russia invaded that part of
47:12
Ukraine, What was going on with you and your son and what was going
47:15
through your head? Well, basically the at January towards the end of January
47:24
twenty twenty two is when I tried to leave the country. And unfortunately,
47:29
like I said, my mother in law had reported that I had basically hurt
47:34
my son. So there was like not an arrest warrant, but sort of
47:37
like an investigative warrant on me. So when I tried to leave the country,
47:40
even though there wasn't anything they could do to stop me that they did
47:45
flag me, like the criminal police did flag me and basically detained me,
47:50
and they took my son from me and gave him to his grandmother. They
47:54
detained me for a little bit, and he had one of my passport.
48:00
He stamped it and said he had ten days to leave the country or you're
48:02
going to be arrested. So I left. I left January thirtieth, and
48:08
I was planning to come back. You know, I had the lawyer.
48:13
You know, I wanted to come back and I don't know, just do
48:15
something, right. I didn't know what, but I wanted to come back
48:17
and do something. And you know, unfortunately, like three weeks after I
48:22
left the country, that's when the war started. And you know, I
48:29
my son's mom called me and said, you know, send us some money.
48:32
Don't worry. You know, people here are going to welcome the Russians
48:37
to Mariupul. And this was you know, February something, and I did
48:45
send them some money. Obviously, you know, war was the war was
48:49
happening. I was trying to convince him to leave the leave the leave the
48:52
city, and but they wouldn't leave, and I lost contact with them sometime
48:58
at the beginning of March. You know, the war had already started,
49:01
and for like three weeks, I didn't know if my son was dead or
49:05
alive. I couldn't reach anybody. You know, I knew a lot of
49:07
people in the city that i'd been friends with. Some of them died,
49:12
others were able to leave, and you know, they were trying to just
49:15
trying to reach somebody in the city see if they could reach my son's family.
49:20
And you know, thankfully again I got a call from the State Department
49:25
sometime in March's you know, good news, bad news is your son's alive.
49:30
That's the good news. The bad news is he's he's he's in Russia
49:34
with his family now. And there's really no diplomatic mechanism to bring a child
49:38
home from Russia. And yeah, that's that's that's your ex wife and your
49:45
mother in law too. Yeah, your x wife and your mother in law
49:50
and your son are in Russia. They fled to Russia. Uh you know
49:54
why was it because they figured they could keep your son from Ether away from
50:00
you by doing that, or was it for their own I think so,
50:04
I think, yeah, yeah, that's really what I think is a motivation.
50:07
And you know, my mother in law she's a lunatic. She's you
50:10
know, she's a kind of she is a pro Russian Ukrainian obviously, and
50:15
she's the kind that kind of bemoans the fall of the Soviet Union. I
50:19
don't know if you know any right, Oh wow, yeah, like there's
50:23
literally a red flag. Yeah, that's that's she is. And yeah,
50:34
yeah wow. So what was the last time you heard from According to what
50:43
I read, you haven't heard from your son since March second? Is that
50:49
right? Or heard about him or heard from anyone about this? No,
50:53
I hear from them from time to time. I've seen him on FaceTime.
50:58
He doesn't speak English, and before he would, you know, I'd speak
51:01
to him in Spanish and English and he would understand, you know, he
51:05
would respond to to the even though he didn't speak it. But you know,
51:09
he just seems Russian. He seems he seems like he's okay as far
51:13
as he doesn't look furd or anything or mountain nourish. But I see,
51:20
I honestly have a hard time even seeing him to the zoom. It doesn't
51:27
seem Yeah, so you don't feel like you feel like they're it's like they're
51:31
kind of it's like they're kind of erasing your input into the raising of his
51:38
child, right, like, like you are a Mexican American, so he
51:44
learned he was learning or you were speaking to him in English and Spanish,
51:46
right, Yeah, And now he's over there, and he doesn't he speaks
51:52
Russian speak. He doesn't speak English or Spanish, or at least you haven't
51:58
seen much of that. No, he doesn't. A few times that I've
52:00
spoken to him, he doesn't understand English or Spanish. Yeah at all.
52:05
He only speaks for Russian. Yeah, go ahead, but no, I
52:09
mean, I just I'm always conflicted with those calls, because of course it's
52:17
nice to see him, but I just ended up getting angry afterwards, to
52:23
be honest, Yeah, I don't really, Well, it just seems unjust.
52:28
It's it is unjust. It doesn't seem unjust, it's really unjust.
52:30
It's it's like, yeah, I mean, I couldn't imagine, like I've
52:36
always wanted kids, and I couldn't imagine having a child and then losing that
52:40
child, and you feel like no one is doing anything to make it right,
52:45
you know, yeah, really, and it's it's difficult. One one
52:50
note, I don't know if you saw the article I sent you, one
52:53
of the things that, oh yeah, I got it the Washington Post.
52:57
One. Right, Well, there's a there was another twist to the story.
53:00
There were two videos. I watched them both already. We can't display
53:05
them here. But sure, no, but I can show you the article.
53:08
What were you going to say? Well, basically, you know when
53:12
I was when I tried to take my son out of Ukraine, I mentioned
53:15
to you that one of my passports was stolen. So one of those cops
53:20
that when the invasion started, from what I hear, he was trying to
53:22
leave the country, trying to leave Mariupa with my passport and he was killed
53:27
by a Russian soldier. And that Russian soldier was on on Russian TV saying
53:32
that he had killed me essentially and that I was a I was a mercenary
53:37
fighting. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was on
53:39
the what is it fact checking thing? I watched that. Yeah. Yeah,
53:45
I don't even I couldn't even even Probably if I wanted to visit Russia,
53:49
I don't think I would because I might be a target. Yeah KTV
53:53
as a as a foreign agent or something, right, right, dude,
54:00
that's crazy man? So what it okay? So how long has it been
54:06
since you last saw any sign of your kid? And what do you have
54:12
like a plan? Like do you have a plan? Are you are you
54:15
going to keep trying or are you moving on? Like what? What are
54:22
you thinking, Yeah, so recently, you know, I'm actually still married,
54:28
still going through the divorce process, and it's supposed to finally wrap up
54:31
this year. I had my attorney, authorized my attorney to speak to my
54:37
son's mom and you in Russia, you know, and to make like basically
54:42
an offer because she actually can't it'll be like a default divorce. So you
54:46
know, we have a business in the in the house that are basically going
54:51
to come to me. She's not going to get anything, but I authorize
54:53
my attorneys. You know, I'm willing to do to make it give her
54:59
even more than what she's entitled to if she brings our son home. So
55:04
that looks promising. Obviously Russia is kind of limited in their options. If
55:09
she's willing to bring him home, we're willing to help her with you know,
55:14
her legal troubles. I know, the district attorney told me personally that
55:19
in the interest of the that's interests of the child, she's willing to drop
55:22
the charges if she brings him back. So there's some hope there. I
55:25
mean, obviously you're hoping for a woman to do the right thing. That's
55:30
you know, who knows, Yeah, right, not it's not something we
55:34
incentivize. Yeah, which is is the main issue, not that women aren't
55:37
capable of doing the right thing, but we don't exactly penalize them for not
55:42
Yeah, so we kind of reward bad behavior. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
55:46
Yeah. So so are you uh, I don't know, Like I
55:52
mean, I know, you you you know, you're still going through the
55:54
process. Is there like something that you're hoping to get people to be aware
56:02
of or support or anything like that, like, you know, I don't
56:08
know, like a petition like something, you know, do you have anything
56:15
in mind? Have you spoken to people like I know you talked to Paul,
56:17
Have you, uh, spoken to people like NCFM, the National Coalition
56:22
for Men they have like lawyers. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just
56:28
yeah, it's kind of you know, maybe I'm just being negative, but
56:34
you know, when all this went down, and especially when the war started,
56:37
like I was in Washington, d C. You know, I spoke
56:39
to a couple of senators. I was working with a nonprofit. I can
56:44
share the name afterwards if you want, but they're a great nonprofit. They're
56:46
the ones that got me all those interviews. They're most of the most of
56:51
the volunteers are we're called left behind parents, like parents that their children are
56:55
abductive from them by a spouse or whatever. And I mean I spoke to
57:00
like Diane Feinstein's office, who she's helped get kids back from overseas. You
57:05
know, it's to me, it's a little bit my and I'm not discouraging
57:10
anybody to do anything, but I kind of feel like the only time kids
57:16
come back from overseas is when a father takes them. That's been what I
57:20
see. People just started willing to help dads. I mean, even when
57:25
I had my son in my arms, the US Embassy was saying war is
57:29
imminent. I was inside of the US Embassy with my son and they said
57:32
pretty much, you need to leave. There's nothing we can do for you.
57:37
So it's it's hard to and I kind of always knew that, you
57:43
know, especially not to make it racial, but even like A said Hispanic
57:45
manager, there's nobody coming to the rescue, which which is why you know,
57:50
I ended up taking matters into my own hands. But I guess,
57:53
just be careful who you married. But even then, you know, you
57:57
said we have friends that they might they might agree with us now, and
58:00
then they meet somebody and all of a sudden, they're you know, all
58:05
that logchic is out the window. Yeah yeah, all right, Well,
58:13
I just want to say thank you for sharing your story. I think it's
58:15
really important. We're gonna go into the Patron Show and so the people that
58:22
like are our supporters can like go more into stuff, ask you more questions.
58:25
You know. If you guys want to be a part of that,
58:28
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58:37
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Zoom call with Caesar and myself. So that's Feedbadger dot com to set up
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a monthly subscription. We are going to head into the Patron Show now,
58:49
so let me just do a quick once over again. Links. I'm gonna
58:54
put links to all of the news stories and stuff in the descriptions. You
58:58
guys gonna look at it yourself. There is two videos and a Washington Post
59:04
article. I think that this should be like all over the news if possible,
59:09
So I don't know. Maybe maybe we can make enough noise and get
59:13
some eyeballs on this. So thank you again, Sezar so much for coming
59:17
on. If you guys liked this video, please oh stick around, don't
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59:29
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59:32
The Fireside Chat, and we'll talk to you guys in the next one.