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Maggie Murdaugh’s Blood on Hubby’s Steering Wheel · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. A lot going down in
0:13
Speaker 1: the Alex mord On trial. This morning. We're on a
0:15
Speaker 1: lunch break, so let's get right down to the nitty gritty.
0:18
Speaker 1: So far, we've lost two girars to COVID. Now, of course,
0:23
Speaker 1: the defense is going to take this opportunity to teach
0:25
Speaker 1: a demand him his trial, or at least a delay.
0:27
Speaker 1: If the judge is smart, he will stick to his
0:30
Speaker 1: guns and pray they don't run out of alternate girars.
0:34
Speaker 1: They've got six of them. Two of those alternates are
0:36
Speaker 1: now on the jury. Six is a good number because
0:41
Speaker 1: typically you don't go past six alternates, and there have
0:45
Speaker 1: been cases, for instance, Scott Peterson case. We lost a
0:49
Speaker 1: lot of girars during that trial. You have to have
0:53
Speaker 1: plenty of alternates. Typically in that jurisdiction, they picked two alternates.
0:59
Speaker 1: Here they've picked six, thank goodness, but two out because
1:02
Speaker 1: of COVID. Let's hope it didn't spread to anyone else.
1:05
Speaker 1: And the Clerk of Courts, a fine lady, is also
1:09
Speaker 1: out with COVID. But that aside, the trial is going forward.
1:16
Speaker 1: We got a bombshell today. It turns out that in
1:20
Speaker 1: the middle of the trial, and I hate when this happens.
1:23
Speaker 1: The state has gotten evidence that they try to get
1:27
Speaker 1: over a year ago about the movements of the car,
1:32
Speaker 1: like the navigation system. Notice, we haven't heard that where
1:35
Speaker 1: you can tell where the car Alex murddog suburban moved
1:39
Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Well, apparently they've got it
1:42
Speaker 1: in now, but is it too late to be allowed
1:46
Speaker 1: into evidence. They're very strict rules about handing scientific data
1:52
Speaker 1: over to the defense in time for the defense expert
1:56
Speaker 1: to review it and prepare a cross examination. That happened
2:00
Speaker 1: because the state has just gotten it. We'll see what
2:04
Speaker 1: happens with that. In the meantime, another bombshell blood found
2:09
Speaker 1: on Alex Murdog's steering wheel of his Chevy Suburban with
2:15
Speaker 1: me an all star panel to try to make sense
2:19
Speaker 1: of what we know right now. First of all, I'm
2:22
Speaker 1: going to go out to Dale Carson, high profile criminal
2:25
Speaker 1: defense attorney out of the Jacksonville jurisdiction and also former
2:30
Speaker 1: fed with the FBI as an FBI agent. Listen, this
2:34
Speaker 1: is a big deal for the state. And I know
2:37
Speaker 1: you've tried a lot of cases, Dale, and typically you
2:41
Speaker 1: want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.
2:46
Speaker 1: So I believe that the state is working up to
2:49
Speaker 1: their best evidence. They had to lay a foundation for it.
2:52
Speaker 1: And today we're hearing about blood on Murdog's steering wheel. Hey,
2:57
Speaker 1: Christine in the control room, could you show you know?
3:01
Speaker 1: I love two two videos, especially Dear to my Heart,
3:04
Speaker 1: But this is the one where Murdog, not the two shot,
3:08
Speaker 1: but with Murdog in the vehicle in his white T
3:12
Speaker 1: shirt talking to police the night of the murders. Christine,
3:15
Speaker 1: it's the video's bodycam video everyone has stated so far.
3:20
Speaker 1: There he is nice and fresh and clean, just as
3:25
Speaker 1: fresh as a daisy. Look at him, not even a
3:29
Speaker 1: tiny space. No blood. There's no blood. Oh and he's
3:33
Speaker 1: not crying either. Whoopsie. Okay that aside del Carson. Remember
3:39
Speaker 1: everyone has said he didn't have any blood on him,
3:42
Speaker 1: So how did blood get on the steering wheel of
3:46
Speaker 1: his car? Well, obviously he didn't correctly tell the investigators
3:51
Speaker 1: what truly happened at the events, and why would he.
3:55
Speaker 1: He is innocent until proven guilty, and in a situation
3:59
Speaker 1: like this where all of a sudden there's new evidence
4:03
Speaker 1: about where the car was when it was in park,
4:06
Speaker 1: when the doors were opened, all of those things are
4:09
Speaker 1: now being attempted to be brought into evidence, and that
4:13
Speaker 1: may ultimately prove his downfall because those are fixed items.
4:19
Speaker 1: The steering wheel bloods a fixed item, turning the car
4:22
Speaker 1: on and off, and being in and out of the
4:24
Speaker 1: car as a fixed item, and if it's different from
4:27
Speaker 1: his actual original testimony when it was most fresh in
4:31
Speaker 1: his mind. And that's why we want to interview individuals
4:35
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible and as separately as possible. Add
4:38
Speaker 1: to that the fact that he could also be charged
4:42
Speaker 1: with destruction of evidence because we know he was wearing
4:44
Speaker 1: one shirt when its all began and it seems to
4:48
Speaker 1: have handily disappeared, and his hands are clean when he's
4:52
Speaker 1: filmed giving the interview in the actual squad car. Okay,
4:56
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know what you just said,
4:58
Speaker 1: because what I asked you, you did a really good job.
5:03
Speaker 1: You danced all the way around. My question, my question
5:06
Speaker 1: is how can he explain blood on his steering wheel
5:12
Speaker 1: when his shirt and his hands which we see in
5:15
Speaker 1: the video are clean. Now, wait a minute, you said
5:20
Speaker 1: something about he doesn't want to tell everything up front,
5:24
Speaker 1: or he doesn't Oh, I know what you said. You
5:27
Speaker 1: said he's got the right to remain silent. It's too
5:31
Speaker 1: late for that. He gave a full on explanation the
5:34
Speaker 1: night of the murders to the police. He's locked into
5:37
Speaker 1: that story. Carson. Well, he's got a statement, but that
5:41
Speaker 1: may not be the truth of the matter, obviously. Well,
5:44
Speaker 1: of course it's not the truth of the matter. For
5:46
Speaker 1: Pete's sake. Well, and if you're lying, and it reduces
5:50
Speaker 1: your credibility. If he should take the stand, the jury
5:54
Speaker 1: is certainly going to become aware of that, and they're
5:56
Speaker 1: going to use that to judge. Bill Carson, you just
6:00
Speaker 1: made me laugh for the first time today. Thank you.
6:03
Speaker 1: If he takes a stand, there is no way in
6:06
Speaker 1: heble help me out. Chris mcdonna, I don't know what
6:10
Speaker 1: planet Carson is beaming down from right now. Number one,
6:14
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnald, let me introduce him Director Cold Case Foundation,
6:18
Speaker 1: former homicide detective. That's part I like the best host
6:22
Speaker 1: of a YouTube channel which I like a lot. The
6:24
Speaker 1: interview room and you can find him at Coldcase Foundation
6:27
Speaker 1: dot org. Okay, Chris, I'm gonna start over with you.
6:31
Speaker 1: Don't make me spank you, because I will. I will.
6:35
Speaker 1: How can he explain blood on his steering wheel. So, Nancy,
6:41
Speaker 1: what's the old saying? The devil's in the details. The
6:46
Speaker 1: only way you can explain that is if you've come
6:48
Speaker 1: in contact with that blood somewhere around that crime sheen,
6:53
Speaker 1: and how it gets there, that's up to him to
6:58
Speaker 1: the defense to explain Lane, you know, how it got there.
7:03
Speaker 1: There is one part in the nine one one call
7:06
Speaker 1: where you can hear in the background a car the vehicle. Yeah,
7:12
Speaker 1: and so it's if that's the link to this that
7:16
Speaker 1: the prosecution sounds like they're connecting the dots here. The
7:21
Speaker 1: defense has got, you know, quite a run to go
7:24
Speaker 1: at to say that it was you know, put there
7:27
Speaker 1: by some other dude. Well, they're either going to have
7:29
Speaker 1: to say that, or they'll have to say somehow they've
7:33
Speaker 1: got to explain with a straight face how he managed
7:36
Speaker 1: to get clean clothes and clean hands. But somehow he's
7:40
Speaker 1: going to have to explain getting back to the car
7:42
Speaker 1: and getting either Paul or Maggie's or both of their
7:46
Speaker 1: blood on his steering wheel, because that's where it's going. Hey, Christine,
7:50
Speaker 1: do we have the new bodycam video from the night
7:55
Speaker 1: of the murders where they have murdi raised his shirt
7:58
Speaker 1: up and they're looking at here to make sure he
8:00
Speaker 1: doesn't have a Oh great, guys, I want you to
8:03
Speaker 1: see the v oh, here we go, Here we go,
8:05
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, they're coming to the scene. They're looking around.
8:11
Speaker 1: It's pitch dark. There's a murlog talking. They're shining a
8:16
Speaker 1: light on his waist right there to make sure he
8:18
Speaker 1: doesn't have a gun stuck in his pants. Um, can
8:22
Speaker 1: you play it with a sound, Christine? Okay, let's hear you, guys,
8:25
Speaker 1: I'm seeing it. Secure. Got a whiskey, flocks, whiskey, MinC
8:29
Speaker 1: both the gunch I wounds to the head. I want
8:34
Speaker 1: you to let you know because of the scene I do.
8:36
Speaker 1: I did go get a gun and bring it down
8:38
Speaker 1: here in your vehicle. I just have any guns on
8:40
Speaker 1: you leaning up against the side of my car. You're
8:43
Speaker 1: you're fine, man, you're fine. Turn around for me. I
8:45
Speaker 1: don't have anything. Okay, yes, sir, I see that. Okay,
8:48
Speaker 1: this is your wife and son. Okay, it's bang. It's
8:58
Speaker 1: a bad chicken. The pulls, yes, sir. Okay. Um. The
9:06
Speaker 1: behavior he's exhibiting right there, he's got a completely straight face.
9:11
Speaker 1: He's speaking coherently. Hey, Kristin, could you play that one
9:14
Speaker 1: one more time? And then later I'll go to our
9:18
Speaker 1: cuddle leven. Could we hear ten one more time? I
9:20
Speaker 1: want to make sure I heard it all. I've seen
9:22
Speaker 1: it secure, had a whiskey, fox, whiskey MinC both gunch
9:25
Speaker 1: I wounds to the head. I want you to let
9:30
Speaker 1: you know because of the scene I do, I did
9:33
Speaker 1: go get a gun and bring it down here in
9:34
Speaker 1: your vehicle. I just have any guns on you leaning
9:37
Speaker 1: up against the side of my car. You're you're fine, man,
9:39
Speaker 1: You're fine. Turn around for me. Okay, yes, sir, I
9:42
Speaker 1: see that. Okay, this is your wife and so okay
9:52
Speaker 1: it's bangs bad. Check yes, sir, oh Crime Stories with
10:18
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to let you know because of
10:24
Speaker 1: the scene I do. I did go get a gun
10:26
Speaker 1: and bring it down here in your vehicle. I just
10:28
Speaker 1: you have any guns on you? Eat no leaning up
10:30
Speaker 1: against the side of my car. You're you're fine, man,
10:32
Speaker 1: you're fine. Car around for me. I don't have anything. Okay, Yes, sir,
10:35
Speaker 1: I see that. Okay, this is your wife and so okay,
10:45
Speaker 1: it's bad. It's bad. I've checked the pulch. Okay, guys,
10:54
Speaker 1: I want to go to new doctor Michelle Dupree joining
10:56
Speaker 1: me pathologist, medical examiner for more, detective and author of
11:02
Speaker 1: homicide Investigation Field Guide, and she is there on location
11:07
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. You can find her at d Michelle
11:10
Speaker 1: Duprie MD dot com. Doctor dupre thank you for being
11:13
Speaker 1: with us. Did you notice, doctor that he wasn't crying
11:17
Speaker 1: at all, that he was speaking perfectly coherently, And I've
11:21
Speaker 1: written down what he says. He says, Sir, I want
11:24
Speaker 1: to let you know that because of the scene I do.
11:27
Speaker 1: I did go get a gun and bring it down here.
11:30
Speaker 1: And then he goes is leaning up against the side
11:33
Speaker 1: of my car, and he goes, I don't have anything,
11:37
Speaker 1: And then and only then does he go a little sniffy.
11:42
Speaker 1: Right there, he is perfectly coherent, Doctor Duprie, Yes, Nancy,
11:47
Speaker 1: he is. He seems very calm. I also noticed that
11:49
Speaker 1: he folds his arms across his chest in a very
11:52
Speaker 1: what I would consider defensive posture. This to me is
11:56
Speaker 1: not like someone who is just witness say horrific um,
12:00
Speaker 1: seen his beloved wife and son um. I think this
12:04
Speaker 1: is unusual. Yeah, oh oh, that's really good. Is that
12:09
Speaker 1: you Carson jump in del Carson, Come on, you would
12:12
Speaker 1: never say that, not in that situation. The word scene
12:17
Speaker 1: is something that talks to exactly what it is in reality.
12:22
Speaker 1: It's a scene. It's been created. But who created it? Oh,
12:26
Speaker 1: that's really insightful. Actually, I was all ready to fight
12:29
Speaker 1: with you, but you're right. You're absolutely right. Now, Hey, Christine,
12:33
Speaker 1: let's play cut eleven more of the body Camp video.
12:41
Speaker 1: They are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's what it
12:44
Speaker 1: looks all. When was the last time you were here
12:53
Speaker 1: with them or talk to them or anything like that. Um,
13:03
Speaker 1: it was earlier tonight. I don't know the exact time,
13:07
Speaker 1: but okay, I left. I was probably gone an hour
13:10
Speaker 1: and a half for my mom's and I saught him
13:11
Speaker 1: about forty five minutes before that. There, he goes, Man,
13:15
Speaker 1: he's got that time, his timeline in his own head,
13:18
Speaker 1: even though it's not borne out by the facts. Did
13:21
Speaker 1: you hear that, Chris mcdonnaugh, He says an hour and
13:25
Speaker 1: a half. He's sticking to that. He was at his
13:29
Speaker 1: mom The story he was at his mom's for an
13:31
Speaker 1: extended period of time. It's about a twenty minute drive there,
13:34
Speaker 1: it's about a twenty minute drive back, and he is
13:38
Speaker 1: trying to account for ninety minutes. So he's saying he
13:42
Speaker 1: was at his mom's fifty minutes. That's not what happened. Yeah,
13:46
Speaker 1: And there's a couple other things going on here, Nancy.
13:49
Speaker 1: The fact that when he's asked that question, notice he
13:52
Speaker 1: turns away from that officer, and then it kind of
13:56
Speaker 1: buys him a moment to think through what his response
14:00
Speaker 1: is going to be. And and and mind you remember
14:04
Speaker 1: in front of him is his deceased wife and his
14:08
Speaker 1: deceased son, and he's walking back on the telephone calling
14:13
Speaker 1: and speaking with somebody show in the business we would
14:18
Speaker 1: call this does not look right, DLR. Well, it also
14:21
Speaker 1: is what you did not look right? D l R.
14:25
Speaker 1: Hey Dale, Carson Dale. Let's watch it again together, Chris, say,
14:30
Speaker 1: could you play that again? Because now that now that
14:34
Speaker 1: Chris has pointed it out, he does turn away from
14:37
Speaker 1: the question. He's absolutely correct. Let's take another listen, Well
14:42
Speaker 1: check they are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's what
14:48
Speaker 1: it looks Green. Call this head. When was the last
14:56
Speaker 1: time you were here with them or talk to them
14:59
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Um, it was earlier tonight. I
15:09
Speaker 1: don't know the exact time, but Okay, I left. I
15:12
Speaker 1: was probably gone an hour and a half for my
15:14
Speaker 1: mom's and I saw him about forty five minutes before that. Okay.
15:18
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting When I look at a witness
15:21
Speaker 1: to determine if they're lying, you will notice that they
15:26
Speaker 1: either blink a lot, or they look away, they pause,
15:31
Speaker 1: they fidget with something in order to call themselves to
15:35
Speaker 1: continue with their lie. That they may be fabricating right
15:38
Speaker 1: then and there. And that's exactly what Chris mcdonnoh pointed out.
15:42
Speaker 1: What about it? Del Carson? All right, well, that's certainly true.
15:45
Speaker 1: But what I listened to is his words and one
15:48
Speaker 1: of the questions he says, are they dead? Well, that's
15:53
Speaker 1: not what you would routine? You would and can you help?
15:55
Speaker 1: Here's there's the ambulance on the way. I mean, can
16:00
Speaker 1: you really believe that that's how you would approach that
16:04
Speaker 1: situation and and deubscribe your son and your wife as
16:09
Speaker 1: te y No, Now that doesn't smell right. You know,
16:15
Speaker 1: we're looking at bodycam video that the jury has just
16:20
Speaker 1: seen a lot going down in the courtroom right now,
16:24
Speaker 1: very telling the way he behaves Christine, one more time,
16:27
Speaker 1: can I see that last bit of videotape. You played
16:30
Speaker 1: the bodycam. They are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's
16:38
Speaker 1: what it looks like. When was the last time you
16:47
Speaker 1: were here with them or talk to them or anything
16:49
Speaker 1: like that. Um, it was earlier tonight. I don't know
17:00
Speaker 1: the exact time, but okay, I left. I was probably
17:03
Speaker 1: gone an hour and a half for my mom's and
17:05
Speaker 1: I saught him about forty five minutes before that. Now
17:07
Speaker 1: the jury has seen this in the last couple of days,
17:09
Speaker 1: and we have been wrangling with authorities to get our
17:12
Speaker 1: mits on it. We finally did. I also notice again,
17:17
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, that he is perfectly coherent when he
17:21
Speaker 1: is spouting off his timeline and other coajing facts. But
17:26
Speaker 1: then every once in a while you'll hear a little
17:29
Speaker 1: wine or a little that, But he is not showing
17:36
Speaker 1: any indication that he is bereft. That's true, Nancy. And
17:40
Speaker 1: also when he's in the car being interviewed, he is
17:44
Speaker 1: very calculating. He to me, he is thinking of all
17:48
Speaker 1: of his wards before he says them. He's very slow.
17:51
Speaker 1: He's thinking about what he's going to say before he answers.
17:54
Speaker 1: I think this is tell teller. If you did something
17:57
Speaker 1: like this, would you try to disassociate from it in
18:01
Speaker 1: order to explain it, so you are emotionally not connected
18:04
Speaker 1: to it, and that would explain why he is simply
18:08
Speaker 1: so the disassociation allows him to call the killing of
18:11
Speaker 1: his wife and his son a scene instead of this
18:16
Speaker 1: horrible circumstance. So he's living in two separate worlds, absolutely
18:23
Speaker 1: living in two separate worlds. I'm wondering how Murdoch has
18:28
Speaker 1: been behaving in court and where his family is sitting. Now, guys,
18:33
Speaker 1: we've just shown you body Kim video that the jury
18:36
Speaker 1: has already seen, and now two alternates have taken the
18:39
Speaker 1: place of other gars. We are also learning and this
18:43
Speaker 1: is where you come in, Giovanni Masuchi, joining US senior
18:47
Speaker 1: and digital forensic examiner over thirty five years by the
18:52
Speaker 1: way of expertise in this field, we are learning that
18:56
Speaker 1: the state is just now getting navigational data to show
19:03
Speaker 1: where the car went and when, what could possibly have
19:08
Speaker 1: taken so long? Whilst we heard thinks Nancy or we
19:11
Speaker 1: heard from the FBI technician that the data entertainment system,
19:15
Speaker 1: he said, and it was first time he's ever seen
19:17
Speaker 1: that it was encrypted. That being the case, they also
19:21
Speaker 1: took over a year to come up with their own
19:23
Speaker 1: software program to try to break that encryption and get
19:25
Speaker 1: the data out, and so it took them a long time. Now,
19:29
Speaker 1: obviously they're putting in a format that's readable that they
19:33
Speaker 1: can utilize in core, and so it may have taken
19:36
Speaker 1: an extra time to get it to the state prosecution
19:40
Speaker 1: to go ahead and start presenting it. You know, I'm
19:42
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out what they're really going to
19:44
Speaker 1: be able to prove with it. Giovanni Masucchi, what do
19:47
Speaker 1: you believe the state will be able to show? What's
19:50
Speaker 1: the point of bringing it in? Now? Well, let's think
19:53
Speaker 1: about this. Remember they said that the phone was thrown
19:58
Speaker 1: from a vehicle, right, What do we see that they uncovered?
20:03
Speaker 1: Is that the the the federal examiner, he could tell
20:07
Speaker 1: when the windows were raised and lowered. To me, that's important.
20:12
Speaker 1: When were they raised and lowered? Do we have date?
20:14
Speaker 1: We don't have any date. Do we have a date
20:16
Speaker 1: that has not been brought into court. I'm curious to
20:19
Speaker 1: see if they're going to come up with any date,
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, time exactly when that was raised and lower
20:24
Speaker 1: was it in that time frame? Right? So that to
20:28
Speaker 1: me is important. The other thing is that you know,
20:31
Speaker 1: you have times he says it was gone for an
20:33
Speaker 1: hour and a half and you know they've received calls
20:38
Speaker 1: from they said that in another part between nine oh
20:41
Speaker 1: six and ten thirteen. Quite interesting, and they don't know
20:44
Speaker 1: if it was in motion or not. That's fine, but
20:48
Speaker 1: was he starting and stopping? You know, what was the
20:50
Speaker 1: process or you know, as the state, you know, when
20:54
Speaker 1: he gets on the standing, they're going to grill him
20:55
Speaker 1: on this. You know, where did he stop? Why did
20:57
Speaker 1: he stop? And so this is going to be interesting,
21:00
Speaker 1: especially that they did bring in cell tower analysis that
21:03
Speaker 1: they did. Honestly, they may be able to bring in
21:06
Speaker 1: bluetooth information too when it connected to the car's bluetooth
21:09
Speaker 1: to his phone, and that would demonstrate an absolutely positive
21:14
Speaker 1: time that he was not where he said he was right,
21:18
Speaker 1: And they did grab a bluetooth information which showed the
21:21
Speaker 1: two calls and made around ten or six, So that'd
21:25
Speaker 1: be interesting. See exactly. I mean they couldn't get all
21:29
Speaker 1: the data that they wanted because they didn't even come
21:31
Speaker 1: up with GPS data, so they had to rely on
21:34
Speaker 1: cell tower information as well from the carrier. But if
21:37
Speaker 1: his cell phone linked up to a WiFi at the property,
21:41
Speaker 1: which certainly there is a WiFi at the property. They
21:44
Speaker 1: should be able to determine precisely what time he was
21:47
Speaker 1: at the property and when he left, right if it
21:50
Speaker 1: was connected to At the very best case scenario, Giovanni Massuchi,
21:56
Speaker 1: what will the state be able to prove with the
21:59
Speaker 1: new that he was in the area, that he actually
22:02
Speaker 1: was in the area, and that he wasn't telling the
22:05
Speaker 1: We already know that. We know he was in the
22:08
Speaker 1: area because it's on a video taken by Paul. We
22:14
Speaker 1: hear his voice, We know he was there. So how
22:18
Speaker 1: is this going to help the state? I mean, I
22:20
Speaker 1: think I know the answer, but you're the expert, So
22:22
Speaker 1: I'm asking you. Do you believe I believe they'd lie.
22:26
Speaker 1: For sure, he definitely lied. Okay, this is what I
22:28
Speaker 1: think it's going to show. I believe that the new
22:32
Speaker 1: evidence I'm going out on a lamb here, is going
22:34
Speaker 1: to show exactly where the car went, at what time,
22:39
Speaker 1: how long the car was in park at his mother's house.
22:42
Speaker 1: We know he was there because their caretaker said so,
22:45
Speaker 1: how long he was there and when he came back.
22:49
Speaker 1: That is what I think the new evidence is going
22:51
Speaker 1: to show, and as Giovanni just told us, it may
22:55
Speaker 1: very well show if he slowed down to throw something
22:59
Speaker 1: out of the car, if the windows went down along
23:01
Speaker 1: the way in his ride to his mother's home, if
23:04
Speaker 1: he detoured somewhere to bury the items or to get
23:09
Speaker 1: rid of his bloody clothing that could be extrapolated from
23:12
Speaker 1: those stops, or the windows going up and down. That's
23:16
Speaker 1: what I think they're bringing it into show now. Interestingly, Hey,
23:20
Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ear. I've got An Emerson joining
23:23
Speaker 1: us straight out of the courtroom, senior investigative reporter with
23:26
Speaker 1: WCIV ABC and the creator of Unsolved South Carolina, The Murder, Murders,
23:34
Speaker 1: Money and Mystery, a daily podcast, and thanks for being
23:37
Speaker 1: with us. Tell me first of all about the evidence
23:42
Speaker 1: that the state is trying to bring in. Who will
23:46
Speaker 1: help what is it? Well, they're working really hard right
23:48
Speaker 1: now at trying to bring in all of this DNA
23:52
Speaker 1: swabs that they took, and really what we're getting to
23:55
Speaker 1: the bottom of ish who was actually what they're able
23:59
Speaker 1: to get out of this DNA is who they can't
24:02
Speaker 1: exclude right So, right now they're able to go over
24:07
Speaker 1: all of the different things that they've been testing from
24:09
Speaker 1: his shirt to the defendant shirt to his shorts. They're
24:13
Speaker 1: looking at the car, they're looking at the steering wheel,
24:17
Speaker 1: they're looking for places that they need to test for
24:20
Speaker 1: DNA in order to exclude other people and whoever they
24:23
Speaker 1: need to include. And right now, what we've heard over
24:26
Speaker 1: and over again from this DNA testing that was done
24:29
Speaker 1: the forensics is we are able to include Maggie and Paul,
24:34
Speaker 1: of course, but also Alec at several of these points
24:37
Speaker 1: that they've tested, but not anyone else. So that's what
24:41
Speaker 1: we're hearing really through this testimony, and it is really,
24:45
Speaker 1: as you know, really long. They have to make sure
24:47
Speaker 1: that they go through every single thing, They dot every eye,
24:50
Speaker 1: they cross, every team because they want the jury to
24:53
Speaker 1: know that they've done absolutely everything to exclude other possible suspects.
25:00
Speaker 1: So I think that's really the crux of what we're
25:01
Speaker 1: looking at right now. Some of the really interesting things
25:05
Speaker 1: that have come out is that they've been able to
25:08
Speaker 1: look at One of the things that pointed out was
25:11
Speaker 1: one of the things that they don't they did not find,
25:13
Speaker 1: and that was that raincoat that we've talked about so much,
25:16
Speaker 1: that raincoat that ended up at the mom's house. That raincoat,
25:19
Speaker 1: according to these forensic experts, did not have any blood
25:22
Speaker 1: on it. And Emerson, you're saying the shirt is positive
25:26
Speaker 1: for Paul and Maggie's DNA. Would that be from blood?
25:33
Speaker 1: Right now? They're saying that Paul's, Yes, Paul's Palmer Duck's
25:37
Speaker 1: DNA that would be from a blood test that they
25:39
Speaker 1: did would have been found on the shirt. They were
25:41
Speaker 1: also looking at Maggie's blood on that shirt, and that
25:44
Speaker 1: Alec contributed to that shirt as well, of course because
25:48
Speaker 1: he's wearing the T shirt right, So yes, they they're
25:50
Speaker 1: talking about where they found paul blood. There's tenie, twelve
25:55
Speaker 1: boys that they're looking at on that T shirt. So
25:57
Speaker 1: it's Paul and Maggie's blood, not touch DNA. Correct From
26:01
Speaker 1: what I understand, they did the blood tests and now
26:03
Speaker 1: they've gone back in and done DNA tests to be
26:05
Speaker 1: able to provide more more conclusive evidence of who they
26:11
Speaker 1: are who they're finding on that T shirt. Okay, what
26:16
Speaker 1: we were talking about when you first came out is
26:18
Speaker 1: the car data that the state apparently has just gotten.
26:22
Speaker 1: That is the data we're discussing. What do you believe
26:25
Speaker 1: it is and what do you believe it will show. Well,
26:27
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is that this is GPS points and
26:31
Speaker 1: I'm thinking this is already what you were going through
26:33
Speaker 1: is I was running down the steps out of the
26:35
Speaker 1: courthouse today, was that there is all of this new
26:39
Speaker 1: information coming out of the stair on Star that GM
26:43
Speaker 1: wants to provide for this trial. They've been watching it
26:46
Speaker 1: along with everybody else, and when they heard that it
26:49
Speaker 1: took a year to open this up and be able
26:52
Speaker 1: to look and unlock some of this data, they were like,
26:54
Speaker 1: hold on, we have a lot more for you now.
26:57
Speaker 1: What the defense and the prosecution is saying is that
27:00
Speaker 1: this is really interesting data points for both of us
27:03
Speaker 1: and we really need to go through it. The defense
27:06
Speaker 1: only got a hold of these this GPS information as
27:10
Speaker 1: of Saturday, so they've got, they said, massive amount of
27:14
Speaker 1: data that they need to go through. So we're waiting
27:16
Speaker 1: to see if this somehow is going to create any
27:19
Speaker 1: kind of delay as we as we start going forward,
27:22
Speaker 1: and Nancy, I think that did I want to jump
27:24
Speaker 1: in here for a second if you don't mind. So
27:27
Speaker 1: I also don't want to forget that we have testimony
27:31
Speaker 1: from Shelley Smith, who remember he shows up that night
27:36
Speaker 1: and tries to convince her that his timeline is at
27:40
Speaker 1: least thirty to forty minutes different than what she testified too,
27:45
Speaker 1: of being about fifteen or twenty minutes. That car data
27:49
Speaker 1: that they've just received will also substantiate, you know, what
27:54
Speaker 1: the correct timeline is to your point earlier that he
27:58
Speaker 1: did go over to his mother's house at that point.
28:01
Speaker 1: But remember he was trying to influence her to change
28:04
Speaker 1: her story because he probably knew that data was going
28:08
Speaker 1: to be an issue. You know, another issue about this
28:12
Speaker 1: GPS data coming in right now, The defense could move
28:17
Speaker 1: to have it excluded because it was not handed over
28:20
Speaker 1: ahead of time. The state could then argue back, this
28:24
Speaker 1: is legal strategy that it is newly discovered evidence. If
28:28
Speaker 1: they can show they just got it. When you get
28:32
Speaker 1: newly discovered evidence, you can bring that into trial over
28:36
Speaker 1: the defense's objection. You can't have evidence and you just
28:40
Speaker 1: sit on it, not hand it over, and then jump
28:42
Speaker 1: up in claim it's newly discovered. But if it truly
28:45
Speaker 1: is newly discovered, the judge can let it in right now.
28:50
Speaker 1: As I understand it, in Emerson, the defense is not
28:54
Speaker 1: trying to exclude it. They in fact want to study it.
28:57
Speaker 1: And see if it can help them as well. Absolutely, Nancy,
29:01
Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head. I mean, that's
29:02
Speaker 1: exactly what they were saying this morning. Those were the
29:04
Speaker 1: words they were using. You're in the head of what's
29:08
Speaker 1: happening with the state, I think. I mean, they were saying,
29:10
Speaker 1: this is newly discovered evidence. This is stuff that we
29:12
Speaker 1: didn't know about, and we wouldn't have known about if this,
29:16
Speaker 1: you know, the people that were running this on store
29:18
Speaker 1: system came forward and told us what was happening. So
29:21
Speaker 1: it's really interesting too the way the defense is handling it.
29:24
Speaker 1: Rather than saying, hold on, this is totally out of order,
29:28
Speaker 1: you know, concerned, they're like, bring it, we want to
29:31
Speaker 1: see what it is. Absolutely, we believe that this is
29:34
Speaker 1: just going to solidify our case as well. So it
29:37
Speaker 1: was it was a moment though, because you could also see, like,
29:41
Speaker 1: you know, just last week the defense was calling for
29:44
Speaker 1: a mistrial, you know, which was extraordinary, you know last
29:48
Speaker 1: week when that happened, and with all of these things
29:51
Speaker 1: that are happening right now, we've got a couple of
29:53
Speaker 1: jurors that are now out with COVID, there's this concern
29:56
Speaker 1: we've got a mass mandate in that courtroom. Now you've
30:00
Speaker 1: got that concern, and then you've got this newly discovered evidence.
30:03
Speaker 1: You would think that the defense strategy and tell me
30:06
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but that the defense strategy would be
30:09
Speaker 1: looking at Oh, well, here's an opportunity for us to
30:12
Speaker 1: seriously slow down this trial. No, they're like, let's see
30:16
Speaker 1: the evidence. We're going to try and look at it
30:17
Speaker 1: as quickly as we can. But we're still We're still
30:20
Speaker 1: in the game, is what I'm getting from it. Guys,
30:23
Speaker 1: I want you to hear go ahead, go ahead, Nancy.
30:27
Speaker 1: I believe that if after day get their own expert
30:30
Speaker 1: to look at the data, and if approves that it
30:32
Speaker 1: will go against your client, that they'll act to try
30:34
Speaker 1: to get suppressed. But because the OnStar is going to
30:37
Speaker 1: show breadcrumbs that's going to give you some really detailed
30:40
Speaker 1: data on the movement of that vehicle, it's gonna take
30:42
Speaker 1: it's gonna take days for them to analyze it, which
30:45
Speaker 1: they will have. You know, I don't know why the
30:48
Speaker 1: lawyers don't think they can work overtime after the jury
30:51
Speaker 1: goes home. We should not be having any hearings or
30:55
Speaker 1: any work done on the jury's time. The lawyers need
30:59
Speaker 1: to stay late. I'm in over the weekend to do
31:01
Speaker 1: that work, so the jury is not held up. Guys,
31:04
Speaker 1: I want you to hear. And again this is where
31:07
Speaker 1: our experts coming in today. Having it's about phone pings
31:11
Speaker 1: and our cut one and two. Um, we haven't heard
31:15
Speaker 1: a lot about the pinging, but we are now take
31:19
Speaker 1: a listen. First of all, regarding Maggie and Paul's last
31:23
Speaker 1: phone pings and our cut one. This is eight o
31:27
Speaker 1: four to eight o five pm. Okay, And so now
31:30
Speaker 1: we're seeing some some hits across this Moselle Road. Correct,
31:34
Speaker 1: that's correct. So eight six twenty it's uh here on
31:38
Speaker 1: near Moselle Road, just north of the driveway, and from
31:43
Speaker 1: there it moves towards the dog kennel or the hangar,
31:46
Speaker 1: then kind of up the driveway and then finally winding
31:50
Speaker 1: up back at the house at about eight zero seven.
31:56
Speaker 1: Where do we see that phone starting there's a six
32:00
Speaker 1: meter hit at right around the doll house. Now we're
32:03
Speaker 1: gonna move on to Magnie's about four twenty five pm
32:08
Speaker 1: and then ending at about seven o five pm. The
32:11
Speaker 1: phone's generally in this west actually area. And then we
32:14
Speaker 1: see a series of hits with Magna smone. These start
32:17
Speaker 1: at what time? They started seven h seven and end
32:19
Speaker 1: at seventy fifty which a traveling from the Charleston area
32:24
Speaker 1: west towards um Mozelle or Elmdol. Here we have a
32:29
Speaker 1: hit seven fifty pm fifty twenty pm correct yesterday? All right?
32:34
Speaker 1: And where is this? That's a right in multiborough? Actually
32:37
Speaker 1: right here? Did you get any more tower information off
32:39
Speaker 1: on MAGNAE sphones with the rest of the even that
32:42
Speaker 1: seven to fifty pm was the last tower hit I received.
32:46
Speaker 1: That was on Maggie's phone. Seven fifty pm is the
32:49
Speaker 1: last tower hit that the expert received. Now that was
32:53
Speaker 1: about Paul and Maggie's phones. Now take a listen. This
32:58
Speaker 1: is critical to the eight phone payings from Alex Murdog's
33:03
Speaker 1: phone that night. Our cut to Christine. We're looking at
33:06
Speaker 1: who we're looking at Alex Funny. Here we have a
33:09
Speaker 1: number of calls between six forty and nine ten pm,
33:13
Speaker 1: and they're all using tower one five nine two sixty three.
33:16
Speaker 1: And that's that's the one shown which faces an orphan
33:19
Speaker 1: is consistent. We're being in the area of the Mozelle
33:24
Speaker 1: propertys Now, we're looking at nine twelve to nine eighteen,
33:28
Speaker 1: and in the nine twelve phone record, where does Alex's
33:32
Speaker 1: cell phone sector uses Sector three on tower one five
33:36
Speaker 1: nine two sixty three, which is the one closest to Mozelle,
33:39
Speaker 1: so somewhere south we're close to the border of this tower. Yes,
33:45
Speaker 1: And then nine eighteen pm we see ping off this tower. Correct, Yes,
33:51
Speaker 1: off of one five nine two one seven, which is
33:54
Speaker 1: closer to Von nine twenty. From nine twenty to nine
33:57
Speaker 1: forty six, there's a handful of calls, all using tower
34:01
Speaker 1: one five nine two one seven, but using sector two
34:04
Speaker 1: that kind of faces towards the Almida address. And there's
34:08
Speaker 1: also one RTT HIT two at nine thirty four at
34:12
Speaker 1: about two point zero nine miles, which is consistent with
34:16
Speaker 1: being in the area of the Almida residents. If you
34:19
Speaker 1: like data and you like trial work, this is a
34:25
Speaker 1: symphony to your ears. And Emerson WCIV and host of
34:30
Speaker 1: a hit podcast called Unsolved South Carolina. Then Mardik, Martyrs,
34:34
Speaker 1: Money and Mystery, explain what we just heard. Well, what
34:38
Speaker 1: it's doing really is, it's it's tracking h Alec Mardock's
34:43
Speaker 1: movements and Hit and Maggie's were now getting a very
34:47
Speaker 1: clear idea of the timeline. Once again, they're just narrowing
34:50
Speaker 1: it and narrowing it. I bet they're now going to
34:53
Speaker 1: be able to take these GPS points that we're going
34:55
Speaker 1: to be learning about that have just been unlocked from
34:58
Speaker 1: that on Star system. I'm thinking that this is going
35:01
Speaker 1: to play right into where we saw these pings. Now
35:04
Speaker 1: the pains are really important as far as his cell
35:07
Speaker 1: phone towers, because they're going to have to start following
35:10
Speaker 1: him where he's going and when he's getting there. So
35:13
Speaker 1: this is really going to be an enormous part of
35:15
Speaker 1: the state's case as far as to be able to
35:18
Speaker 1: track exactly where he says he was and where you're
35:22
Speaker 1: able to show where he was because you know the
35:25
Speaker 1: eye and this guy never lies. Hey, Christine, could you
35:29
Speaker 1: back it up to that first graph you were showing
35:31
Speaker 1: about Murdoch's phone pinging because it's placing him between Moselle
35:38
Speaker 1: and Alameda, where his mother lives. Okay, till nine till
35:43
Speaker 1: nine ten pm. His calls are near Moselle, same tower,
35:50
Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen pings near Moselle, then suddenly nine twenty
35:56
Speaker 1: to ninety six pings near Almina, and that's almost exactly
36:02
Speaker 1: what the housekeeper says that he came in. He was
36:05
Speaker 1: there about twenty minutes and left. Then from nine forty
36:10
Speaker 1: six near Almeda, we see him traveling at nine fifty two.
36:15
Speaker 1: Right at nine fifty three between Almeda and Moseelle. Ten
36:19
Speaker 1: h six, he calls nine one one at Moselle at Mozelle. Now,
36:27
Speaker 1: I guarantee you del Carson, your veteran trial lawyer. The
36:32
Speaker 1: jury is going to have this and go through it
36:35
Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb when they get in the
36:39
Speaker 1: Gerard deliberation room. But it's on the state to make
36:43
Speaker 1: it as clear as Christine and the New York Control
36:46
Speaker 1: Room just made it. And what they're going to have
36:49
Speaker 1: to do deal is they're gonna have to overlay, overlay, overlay,
36:53
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to put the pings, they're gonna have
36:56
Speaker 1: to put the GPS tracking data. They're going to have
37:00
Speaker 1: to put all of those cell phone calls and texts
37:04
Speaker 1: in there to basically put him at the scene at
37:08
Speaker 1: the time of the murders. That's a lot of evidence.
37:12
Speaker 1: Well it is, but it's easily expressed on a whiteboard
37:16
Speaker 1: where you get take and show the pattern, and you
37:19
Speaker 1: can show that it's all connected and that the initial
37:23
Speaker 1: interview of Alex was incorrect and therefore not accurate, because
37:30
Speaker 1: he's defending against what he was actually engaged in, which
37:35
Speaker 1: is of course slaughtering his son and his wife. And
37:41
Speaker 1: although he's got the opportunity to defend himself, and we've
37:46
Speaker 1: yet to hear his side, he's not yet been convicted,
37:49
Speaker 1: but it's likely if the jurors can follow that pattern
37:53
Speaker 1: that's drawn out for them about pings and where they
37:56
Speaker 1: were at what time, in addition to the information brought
38:00
Speaker 1: out by GM from their on start tracking system, he's
38:06
Speaker 1: likely to end up in a convicted situation. Did Giovanni
38:11
Speaker 1: Masuchi joining US senior Digital forensic examiner, Giovanni, I'm so
38:16
Speaker 1: glad you're with us today to make sense of all
38:19
Speaker 1: of the technological data. But I remember one of my
38:24
Speaker 1: favorite props I used in closing arguments was a big jar,
38:29
Speaker 1: a clear jar of muddy water. And when I did
38:34
Speaker 1: my closing argument, I would start off and then I
38:38
Speaker 1: would address what the defense had said, and I'd shake
38:41
Speaker 1: it and it would get all cloudy. You couldn't see
38:46
Speaker 1: into the jar, and I would set it down on
38:49
Speaker 1: the state's table and finish my closing argument outlining the
38:53
Speaker 1: state's case and attacking the defense case. And by the
38:57
Speaker 1: time I finished one hour later, the jar was clear again.
39:03
Speaker 1: So my question to you is, Giovanni, how all the
39:08
Speaker 1: defense try to muddy the water on the paying the
39:13
Speaker 1: cell phone paying data. Well, they may take into account
39:17
Speaker 1: if there was any man made interference or if there
39:22
Speaker 1: was any natural impediments and if the because what happens
39:26
Speaker 1: is is that they're going to try to take it apart.
39:28
Speaker 1: I don't see how they're going to do it, only
39:31
Speaker 1: because you know, when they're doing cell tower tranulations, they've
39:35
Speaker 1: got the data from the mobile carriers and the towers
39:38
Speaker 1: and the sectors, because there's three sectors on a tower,
39:40
Speaker 1: and so we see where the pains were hitting, all
39:44
Speaker 1: in the location of where the crime crime seen the crime.
39:49
Speaker 1: And so I think it's gonna be difficult for them
39:52
Speaker 1: to take that apart and saying well, you know, why
39:55
Speaker 1: did it go to this tower? And you know, I
39:57
Speaker 1: think it's you know, because it can travel from tower
39:59
Speaker 1: to tower if there's track there, if there's natural impediments.
40:03
Speaker 1: But I think the state has a really good case,
40:05
Speaker 1: as far as showing the pains and adding the GPS
40:07
Speaker 1: data and all the other data that have and putting
40:10
Speaker 1: it on a whiteboard. I've been on another murdered trial
40:13
Speaker 1: for the prosecution where they had to do this. I
40:17
Speaker 1: had to back up the FBI cast folks that were
40:21
Speaker 1: doing analysis, and I did the phones, and we took
40:24
Speaker 1: all the data and when you put it on whiteboards
40:26
Speaker 1: and showed the travel of the suspect that committed the crime,
40:30
Speaker 1: and I think this is going to be awesome for
40:33
Speaker 1: the jury to see in such a basic terminology, not
40:37
Speaker 1: to overpower them, let's put it that way. Well, and
40:40
Speaker 1: this is rural, so there's use of the cell phone
40:43
Speaker 1: towers is quite limited and more exact than in an
40:47
Speaker 1: urban setting. Sure. Sure, Interesting, Interesting that you said that,
40:51
Speaker 1: because I believe that the FBI and others can narrow
40:55
Speaker 1: down cell phone pings within you know, one hundred feet.
41:00
Speaker 1: It can be done. I think the way the defense
41:03
Speaker 1: is going to try and muddy the water and the
41:05
Speaker 1: state needs to anticipate this. I'm sure they have and
41:08
Speaker 1: be ready to shoot it down before it hits its mark.
41:12
Speaker 1: That being the jury, they're going to argue, oh hey, hey,
41:16
Speaker 1: cell phone pings off towers. Is not an exact science,
41:21
Speaker 1: you know, Mozelle Almeda. They're fairly close together. We're not
41:26
Speaker 1: sure exactly where the pings. If the pains can identify
41:32
Speaker 1: where Murdoch was at that moment, that's what they're going
41:35
Speaker 1: to do, and the state has got to be ready
41:37
Speaker 1: for that. That's exactly what they're going now. I want
41:40
Speaker 1: to circle back to DNA. I want you to take
41:43
Speaker 1: a listen. We're talking about the steering wheel first and
41:46
Speaker 1: our cut six. They are all swabs that were taken
41:50
Speaker 1: from the Chevy suburban. So it appears that these swabs
41:54
Speaker 1: were collected because they were blue Star positive, which to
41:57
Speaker 1: my understanding is a presumptive test you by the crime
42:00
Speaker 1: scene unit to indicate areas of possible blood stating. Since
42:05
Speaker 1: they were already presumptively tested, I used the confirmatory test
42:09
Speaker 1: to test these swabs for the presence of blood. So
42:14
Speaker 1: SLOOD items fifty one through fifty five, and fifty seven
42:23
Speaker 1: through sixty we're all negative with that testing, which means
42:27
Speaker 1: there's no human blood identified. Item fifty six, which was
42:32
Speaker 1: swabs collected from steering wheel, had a positive result, which
42:36
Speaker 1: means blood was identified on this item Crime Stories with
42:55
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. They are all swabs that were taken from
43:01
Speaker 1: the Chevy Suburban. So it appears that these swabs were
43:05
Speaker 1: collected because they were blue Star positive, which to my
43:08
Speaker 1: understanding is a presumptive test used by the crime scene
43:11
Speaker 1: unit to indicate areas of possible blood stating. Since they
43:16
Speaker 1: were already presumptively tested, I used the confirmatory test to
43:20
Speaker 1: test these swabs for the presence of blood. So SLOOD
43:25
Speaker 1: items fifty one through fifty five, and fifty seven through
43:34
Speaker 1: sixty we're all negative with that testing, which means there's
43:38
Speaker 1: no human blood identified. Item fifty six, which was swabs
43:43
Speaker 1: collected from steering wheel, had a positive result, which means
43:47
Speaker 1: blood was identified on this item. Now we got to
43:50
Speaker 1: figure out how murdog is going to explain Paula Maggie's
43:54
Speaker 1: blood on his steering wheel. But believe you me, he
43:57
Speaker 1: will come up with something believable. No, but he will
44:01
Speaker 1: come up with something and it will be voiced by
44:05
Speaker 1: the attorney Hartpoolian. Now let's take a listen to what
44:09
Speaker 1: we learned about Murdoch's T shirt and shorts in our cuts. Seven.
44:13
Speaker 1: The white shirt from Richard Murdoch was submitted with a
44:16
Speaker 1: blood request on June ninth of twenty twenty one. I
44:22
Speaker 1: processed this item for the possible presence of blood, so
44:26
Speaker 1: that entails I first visually examined the shirt for any
44:29
Speaker 1: areas that are consistent with the staining of blood. Then
44:33
Speaker 1: I've tested these items that I have indicated for with
44:36
Speaker 1: our funal failing presumptive test for blood. Two stains were
44:41
Speaker 1: indicated are were tested. Both stains were positive for the
44:46
Speaker 1: possible presence of blood. So the shorts also were submitted
44:50
Speaker 1: with a blood request. They were processed in a similar manner.
44:53
Speaker 1: Several stains were tested. However, two were positive for the
44:56
Speaker 1: possible presence of blood. A stain look he did at
45:01
Speaker 1: the front left interior pocket of the pair of green
45:04
Speaker 1: shorts was forwarded for further analysis. This was processed on
45:09
Speaker 1: the same June ninth day of twenty twenty one. The
45:12
Speaker 1: shorts were also additionally processed. At the same time, the
45:14
Speaker 1: short was additionally processed to retrieve a second scene that
45:19
Speaker 1: was indicated as the possible presence of flood. So the
45:22
Speaker 1: presumptive results for this stain or that it was positive
45:26
Speaker 1: for the possible presence of flood. Okay, we know there's
45:29
Speaker 1: blood on the clothes, but what kind of blood? To
45:34
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie, it's very very significant. Was it a
45:39
Speaker 1: transfer where he had been checking Paul and Maggie's pulse
45:44
Speaker 1: and then transferred the blood. Was its spatter which would
45:48
Speaker 1: have indicated he was standing right there at the time
45:52
Speaker 1: the gun went off. It's very important what type of
45:56
Speaker 1: blood stained was it? Exactly, Nancy, and I don't think
45:59
Speaker 1: we know that at this point. As you said, if
46:01
Speaker 1: it's spatter, that is a much much different situation than
46:05
Speaker 1: if he had touched something and then simply transferred it
46:07
Speaker 1: to his clothing. Okay, you know a lot is going
46:10
Speaker 1: to be made of the blood evidence joining me wc
46:12
Speaker 1: IV ABC's and and were so what about it? Anne, Well,
46:16
Speaker 1: you know that's exactly what Michelle Dupree was just saying
46:19
Speaker 1: after Duprees talking about we've got to figure out if
46:22
Speaker 1: it's blood spatter and what or if it's transferred. Now,
46:25
Speaker 1: this was a lot of what was going on in
46:27
Speaker 1: pre trial motions because the defense was fighting tooth and
46:31
Speaker 1: nail to keep the blood spatter expert out of court
46:35
Speaker 1: and keep this evidence excluded. They've been trying to discredit
46:40
Speaker 1: this since the beginning the blood spatter. Supposedly, the defense
46:45
Speaker 1: has not been able to look at this T shirt
46:47
Speaker 1: the same way the state was able to look at it,
46:49
Speaker 1: because after they were after the part that you just played,
46:55
Speaker 1: they went ahead, after they had tested the shirt, they
46:59
Speaker 1: went ahead and put LCV on it, and crime scene
47:03
Speaker 1: experts from SLED came and did another testing. This LCV
47:09
Speaker 1: actually turned the T shirt purple. So now the defense
47:13
Speaker 1: is having a hard time at least examining what the
47:17
Speaker 1: state was looking at before. So right now we're in
47:20
Speaker 1: the middle of this major discrepancy about what's actually going
47:23
Speaker 1: to be admitted into evidence. Wow. Okay, guys, and we
47:27
Speaker 1: heard from a SLED forensic surologist. Take a listen to
47:30
Speaker 1: our cut eight. Item fifteen, which were the swabs from
47:34
Speaker 1: the receiver forward of the loading port of the Camopanelli
47:37
Speaker 1: twelve gage shotgun, tested positive for the possible presence of blood.
47:42
Speaker 1: Item sixteen, swabs collected from beryl of Camopanelli twelve gage
47:46
Speaker 1: shotgun tested negative for the possible presence of blood. Both
47:50
Speaker 1: sets of swabs were forwarded to the GENA section for
47:52
Speaker 1: further analysis. Okay, I want to examine that one particular phrase.
47:57
Speaker 1: Did you hear what she said? It's item fifteen. The
48:00
Speaker 1: swaves from the receiver forward of the loading port. The
48:05
Speaker 1: twelve gay shotgun tested positive for presence of blood. Okay,
48:13
Speaker 1: the other part, the part of the gun was negative.
48:19
Speaker 1: Both as the swaves are forwarded to the DNA section.
48:22
Speaker 1: So regarding the gun, why it would blood be on
48:27
Speaker 1: the receiver of the loading port? What about that to you,
48:32
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnough, show, Nancy. There's a couple of things going
48:35
Speaker 1: on here, and what the experts will be able to
48:37
Speaker 1: testify to is one, if the gun was fired and
48:42
Speaker 1: if it did make an impact, then what would have
48:46
Speaker 1: been what we u is called blowback. And when a
48:50
Speaker 1: shotgun is fired, it's sending gash and it's sending these
48:55
Speaker 1: projectiles down down range. But when it impacts something, and
49:00
Speaker 1: that means all of that blowback potentially could come back
49:06
Speaker 1: and would possibly hit that weapon. That may be what
49:11
Speaker 1: they're talking about in this particular case. Well, that gun
49:15
Speaker 1: is not the murtyr weapon. That is a gun. I
49:18
Speaker 1: believe Anne Emerson that Murdoch said he went and retreat
49:21
Speaker 1: from the house because he thought the killer may still
49:23
Speaker 1: be on the grounds, but I'm interested that the DNA
49:28
Speaker 1: is found on that particular part of the gun. And
49:31
Speaker 1: there is a mix. In our cut nine, we hear
49:33
Speaker 1: about a mix of Maggie and Alex's DNA found on
49:39
Speaker 1: the twelve gage. Take a listen to our cut nine.
49:42
Speaker 1: This would be stasty give it two fifty nine. Two
49:54
Speaker 1: fifty nine contains sled items fifty and sixteen, which were
50:02
Speaker 1: swabs from the Camo Bonelli twelve gage shotgun. The comparisons
50:09
Speaker 1: would now be Margaret Murda and Richard Alexander Murdock contributed
50:13
Speaker 1: to the mixture versus two unidentified unrelated individuals contributed to
50:17
Speaker 1: the mixture. And the result of that comparison is the
50:21
Speaker 1: DNA profile is approximately forty eight quintocilian times more likely
50:27
Speaker 1: if Margaret Murda and Richard Alexander Murda contributed to the
50:30
Speaker 1: profile than if two unidentified unrelated individuals contributed to the profile. Wow,
50:36
Speaker 1: she really knows her stuff, doesn't she. And we also
50:38
Speaker 1: heard Alex and Murdock and his interrogation our cut four.
50:42
Speaker 1: I want you to listen and watch his demeanor as
50:46
Speaker 1: he says this Our cut four. When I got back
50:49
Speaker 1: to the house. The house was obviously nobody was in there,
50:53
Speaker 1: so figured they're still up here fooling around. Paul was
50:57
Speaker 1: gonna be getting set up to plant our some seeds
51:01
Speaker 1: got sprayed and died, and he was refiguring to do
51:05
Speaker 1: to plant the sun flower seeds. So I came back
51:09
Speaker 1: up here, and I drove up and saw in cold
51:17
Speaker 1: that is not how I would expect a husband to act,
51:21
Speaker 1: finding not just his wife but his son dead. To
51:26
Speaker 1: Ann Emerson, how is the jury responding to all the evidence? Well,
51:31
Speaker 1: that's a great question, I mean right now today, I mean,
51:35
Speaker 1: you know what we were listening to. They they were
51:39
Speaker 1: listening to a lot of explanations that had to be
51:43
Speaker 1: done methodically and carefully, so I'm gonna be honest, they
51:47
Speaker 1: looked pretty bored. Like for the first part of this today,
51:50
Speaker 1: I saw eyebrows go up a few times when they
51:52
Speaker 1: were really kind of narrowing in on the DNA and
51:56
Speaker 1: it was Alec and Maggie or and or Maggie and
52:00
Speaker 1: Paul's DNA that they were finding, but they weren't finding
52:02
Speaker 1: anybody else's. So I definitely saw the wheels churning a
52:05
Speaker 1: little bit, I think. But there today this morning. That
52:09
Speaker 1: was a tough morning for these jurors. They got to
52:12
Speaker 1: get through this sort of methodical take on the DNA.
52:16
Speaker 1: But you know, there's one thing is that we out,
52:21
Speaker 1: you know, have finally been able to see some of
52:23
Speaker 1: these redacted bodycam videos, and this is what they were
52:27
Speaker 1: looking at. We were literally watching some of the jurors
52:30
Speaker 1: putting their mouth, putting their hand over their mouth like
52:33
Speaker 1: a gas at what they were witnessing from a visual
52:37
Speaker 1: standpoint to be able to once I got out of
52:40
Speaker 1: the courthouse today and took a quick look at what
52:42
Speaker 1: they were looking at, it is incredible to see what
52:45
Speaker 1: they had to sort of go through the first day
52:48
Speaker 1: of testimony to be looking at these body camera videos
52:52
Speaker 1: and what was happening. They have a very clear idea
52:55
Speaker 1: as we are starting to get of what it really
52:58
Speaker 1: looked like out there on Moselle that night. And do
53:01
Speaker 1: you see them looking over at Murdoch? I do. I do.
53:04
Speaker 1: They spend a lot of time now. I think they've
53:06
Speaker 1: gotten a lot more comfortable with being able to go
53:08
Speaker 1: back and forth and depending on what who they're listening to.
53:12
Speaker 1: Right if they're listening to one of these witnesses, like
53:16
Speaker 1: we heard the housekeeper, confidante, the friend of Maggie who
53:21
Speaker 1: who got up there, who looked very reluctant to be
53:24
Speaker 1: speaking against anybody in the family. Really, it was a
53:28
Speaker 1: very hard moment for her. Boy. They were just their
53:30
Speaker 1: heads were on a swivel. Literally, it was like watching
53:33
Speaker 1: a tennis match with She would say something and they
53:36
Speaker 1: would look at the prosecutioner. They would look over at
53:39
Speaker 1: the defense table for a reaction. They're also trying to
53:43
Speaker 1: read the defendant right now, right They're also trying to
53:47
Speaker 1: understand how in the world, as jurors, are we supposed
53:50
Speaker 1: to make the leap that this white collar crime as
53:54
Speaker 1: a as a great prosecutor told me, how did these
53:58
Speaker 1: white collar crimes turn? I'd read, how does that work?
54:02
Speaker 1: How do we use that motive that they've told us
54:04
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to be looking at and take this
54:07
Speaker 1: guy that we're staring at every day and make him
54:11
Speaker 1: who the state says he is. Guys, I want you
54:13
Speaker 1: to hear our cut three. Now. The timing of this sound,
54:18
Speaker 1: the timing of Murdoch's speaking is critical to what the
54:23
Speaker 1: state is trying to show. Remember, some of this is
54:27
Speaker 1: a month after his wife and son or murdered. Listen,
54:32
Speaker 1: I'm gonna direct your attention to July of twenty twenty one,
54:37
Speaker 1: specifically July fourth. Did you drive Alex to the airport.
54:44
Speaker 1: Where was he going? I believe he was going to
54:47
Speaker 1: part the keys with Maggie's family. And did he say
54:51
Speaker 1: anything to you on that ride to the airport we talks.
54:56
Speaker 1: Did he tell you anything about the boat case? He did? What?
55:00
Speaker 1: Did he say? He said that he would like to
55:04
Speaker 1: clear Paul's name and do what and beat the boatcase?
55:09
Speaker 1: Beat the boatcase. So now with Paul gone, he's talking
55:12
Speaker 1: about he can beat the boatcase. That's great. This is
55:15
Speaker 1: a month after the murder. That's great. You know again,
55:18
Speaker 1: I know that I'm probably projecting, But four weeks after
55:23
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, shortly before our wedding, I couldn't care
55:29
Speaker 1: less about a lawsuit or returning. I dropped out of school.
55:34
Speaker 1: I didn't care about that. I didn't want to eat,
55:36
Speaker 1: I didn't want to drink, I didn't want to sleep,
55:38
Speaker 1: I didn't want to live. And he's talking about beating
55:42
Speaker 1: a lawsuit. It's over. Paul's dead at all that Mallory
55:49
Speaker 1: Beaches family. So he was talking about the teen girl
55:52
Speaker 1: that was thrown off Paul's boat. Well, it's Murdog's boat,
55:55
Speaker 1: but Paul was driving it drunk as a Scott and
55:58
Speaker 1: a high as a kite, and they were suing the Murdochs,
56:03
Speaker 1: of course, among others. That's where his head is. This
56:09
Speaker 1: is four weeks after his son, his son and his
56:14
Speaker 1: wife are murdered. Why isn't he out trying to find
56:18
Speaker 1: the killer? Screw tripped down to the keys? What? Okay?
56:25
Speaker 1: Somebody jump in because I find this the most repugnant
56:29
Speaker 1: testimony so far. I can speak from personal experience of
56:32
Speaker 1: losing a sound in two thousand and three, who was
56:34
Speaker 1: twenty years old. I can tell you I can't remember
56:38
Speaker 1: for Munch what life was like outside of wanting to
56:43
Speaker 1: figure out why, and when we see behaviors like this
56:48
Speaker 1: just so blatant coming out where you know, I need
56:51
Speaker 1: to figure out this lawsuit again. It goes back to
56:57
Speaker 1: this idea of all of the problems that I've seen
57:01
Speaker 1: in this is he has injected the cell phone conversations,
57:08
Speaker 1: he's injected the shotgun conversations. He's tried to talk to
57:12
Speaker 1: all of these witnesses and get them to kind of
57:16
Speaker 1: go along with his narrative. So this is not the
57:22
Speaker 1: behavior in my experience of working over three hundred murders
57:26
Speaker 1: in my career, of somebody who's distraught in relationship to
57:31
Speaker 1: a victim's family. Now, people grieve differently. I get that,
57:38
Speaker 1: but in this particular case, you know, he's very specific
57:42
Speaker 1: and methodical. And if we go back to that first
57:45
Speaker 1: interview in the car with him, where you know Sled
57:48
Speaker 1: has him there, I'm curious not to shift gears for
57:52
Speaker 1: a second, but there's a screen on his phone that
57:56
Speaker 1: looks like an Apple reset screen. You'll see it towards
58:01
Speaker 1: the end of his conversation here when he starts looking
58:05
Speaker 1: for phone numbers. So if you get a chance, take
58:09
Speaker 1: a look at that. And I had a question for
58:12
Speaker 1: you know, the expert, the digital guy here, s go ahead.
58:16
Speaker 1: Is there evidence that shows he actually reset his phone
58:21
Speaker 1: that night? Because when you see that phone, it's only
58:24
Speaker 1: one of three screens that Apple offers you, and they're
58:28
Speaker 1: both the original factory screens. And he's got it on
58:32
Speaker 1: his phone as clear as day. When you go back
58:36
Speaker 1: and staff can pull it up, you'll see it clear
58:39
Speaker 1: as day. So at about a jam, go ahead? If
58:43
Speaker 1: he reset his phone? David lose some important data that's
58:46
Speaker 1: on that phone, because what happens, all these keys get lost,
58:51
Speaker 1: and so you're not able to get data when they
58:53
Speaker 1: reset a phone. It's very difficult to acquire data, really, Benny,
58:57
Speaker 1: when you reset a phone. So I'd have to look
59:01
Speaker 1: along and hard at that that video game and see exactly.
59:04
Speaker 1: But oh, please do, please do Giovanni, please look at
59:07
Speaker 1: it again. I just want to say that that last
59:10
Speaker 1: bit of sound that Christine played for us. This is
59:13
Speaker 1: four weeks after his wife and his son, his beloved,
59:17
Speaker 1: have been murdered. Is he out trying to find the killer?
59:22
Speaker 1: H L n O? Is he putting up posters? Is
59:26
Speaker 1: he publicizing a reward? No not. He's going on a
59:31
Speaker 1: vacation to the keys and he come at a time
59:34
Speaker 1: limit award. Yeah. It's completely bass ackwards. And he's not
59:39
Speaker 1: worried about clearing Paul's name. Paul is dead. He is
59:44
Speaker 1: worried about losing murdog money to that lawsuit, talking about yeah,
59:51
Speaker 1: I think I can beat the case. I don't know
59:54
Speaker 1: if it hit the jury like it hit me like
59:57
Speaker 1: a ton of bricks, But that would have been the
59:59
Speaker 1: further this thing from my mind is trying to save
1:00:03
Speaker 1: money when my husband and my child were murdered. No, no, okay, guys,
1:00:11
Speaker 1: we're going back in the courtroom and we're hoping and
1:00:14
Speaker 1: praying that we don't lose any more jurars to where
1:00:18
Speaker 1: we have to declare a mistrial and start this whole
1:00:21
Speaker 1: thing all over God forbid. Thanks for joining us, Goodbye, everybody.