Latest / Kvetch & Release / 610 CKTB | A StatsCan Lanyard Isn’t a Warrant: Census Workers Can't Enter Your Home Without Permission

Transcript

610 CKTB | A StatsCan Lanyard Isn’t a Warrant: Census Workers Can't Enter Your Home Without Permission · Kvetch & Release

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Led Keys got to take Good morning John led Key.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Good morning, Jean Velitis.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey you posted this viral video online. I've seen it
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: a couple of times. At first I thought it was
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a joke. Turns out it is not. It's a video
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: of a Stats Canada Census enumerator standing right inside a
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: homeowner's front entrance. Now I understand you worked as an
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: enumerator yourself for the twenty eleven census. Now I just
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: thought this was like, really weird, this woman coming right
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: into a person's home. Now, what was the first safety
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: rule that was broken here by this woman saying I'm
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: from the government.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's absolutely no reason for an employee
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of that's Canada to enter a home without permission, period,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: full stop. I mean, unless you're a police officer with
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: a warrant or in pursuit of a crime, or you're
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: a firefighter or a paramedic. There's really no reason, work
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: or personal for anyone to enter someone's private property without permission.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: That's basic trespassing one oh one. When I was an
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: enumerator for the twenty eleven NHS, I mean step one
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: of the training was respecting property boundaries. If a doorstep
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: is there and the door is closed. You shouldn't be
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: touching the door handle, let alone trying to open it
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: and then stepping beyond the threshold. And if an interaction
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: turns hostile like this one did, the job isn't to
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: argue with them or to state I'm from the government.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: It's to immediately retreat and record the interaction and writing
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: for posterity.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, for the life of me, I don't
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: understand why people refuse to fill out the census form.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: It's the basis of how things get organized, how things
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: get funded. You know, it's don't I don't get it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I guess some people are paranoid in any event, In
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: that video, the worker keeps repeating I'm from the federal government,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to try to settle things down now, based on your
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: time doing these doorstep interviews. Does a temporary field enumerator
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: actually have that kind of authority or was she simply,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to pull rank that she obviously doesn't have.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: She was trying to assert authority over a situation that
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: she just simply didn't have. Enumerators are temporary field staff
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: hired to collect survey data. They aren't federal law enforcement
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: saying I'm from the federal government is certainly not de escalation.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: That's a power move that does the exact opposite. I mean,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it was Ronald Reagan who said those were the nine
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: scariest words, right, I mean, so when you say that
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: to an anxious or skeptical homeowner, you're validating their worst
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: fears about government overreach. What's really wild, though about that
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: video is that the worker clearly felt justified in what
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: was going on. She kept defending stepping inside instead of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: realizing that she had breached a fundamental legal line, and
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: then she kept trying to drop that authoritative line, which
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: had no bearing on the situation whatsoever.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I just love that Ronald Reagan quote that you brought
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: up the scariest sentence in the English language, I'm from
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the government and I'm here to help. Well. Listen, during
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: your twenty eleven days, you had to do follow up
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: from non responders repeatedly. So was this kind of doorstep
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: confrontation and result of intense pressure from Stats Canada to
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: hit completion numbers or is it just a classic case
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: of an individual going rogue?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a little bit of both.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, between the two scenarios there of it, you know,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the pressure from STATS can or going rogue. I think
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: right in the middle is where things are at. In
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: twenty eleven, that was a voluntary survey that Stephen Harper changed.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a full legal census, so there wasn't a
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: legal mandate to fill it out, unlike the mandatory census today.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: So I was expected to visit a house almost daily
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: for up to like three weeks. So that's like fifteen
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: interaction attempts. So I get it. I know the field
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: pressure is real, and now that they have the legal authority,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I'd imagine that they just keep going back and keep
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: going back because you have your set zone. But this
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: is a worker who has gone rogue. I mean STATS
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Canada is a massive, highly structured federal operation. It's a
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: federal department. It's not like it's a Crown Corps, so
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: it's underneath a minister. There is zero chance official training
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: tells anyone to trespass. At this point, I feel confident
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: saying that even though it's been what fifteen years since
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I was there. This comes down to a total lack
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: of what appears to be common sense and a complete
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: failure to pay attention in stats CAN training or even
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: basic life training. Come on, you don't trespass.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: No kidding. Now, let's face it, a lot of people
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: are paranoid. They think that the information they're filling out
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: in the senses is going to some secret power. Now
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: the homeowner in the clip keeps his shouting out. I
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: remember watching this shouting out about her privacy, data selling
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the government overreach. Now, when an official worker steps past
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: a threshold like this, how much damage does it actually
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: do to public trust and stats Canada. Yeah?
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: A huge, huge, massive damage gene, I mean incalculable. We've
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: already have a massive lack of trust among some Canadians
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: regarding anything that the federal government does and data collection
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: more broadly, and this will fuel the fire. I mean.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: To fix it, stats CAN needs accountability, starting with severe
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: discipline or even potentially firing this employee to make clear
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: to other employees and to the public that this is
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: just beyond what is acceptable or even you know, just
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a disciplinable. I think that this is clearly someone who
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: doesn't have the wherewithal to be operating in this type
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: of a role. But that's not for me to make
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: the decision. Of course, beyond that, STATS can needs real
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: public education campaigns explaining how the census data directly drives
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: local investments and how it appropriates, you know, our members
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: of parliament and provincial parliament, and how it means that
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: we get hospitals and all of the things that we
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: need in our society and our neighborhoods specifically. But if
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: people are running through conspiracy theory land, and then you
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: have Stats Canada employees seemingly validating their concerns that we're
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: in the bad place.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Tinfoil hat head meat, tinfoil hat heead exactly. Now you
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: know what I have the short form. I filled it
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: at lickety split. No problem at all now as I
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: understand it, the census is mandatory by law under the
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Statistics Act, I believe. But you know, I rarely hear
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of anybody being prosecuted for refusing to do it. So
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: should Stats Canada start issuing I don't know, administrative finds
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: like a traffic ticket for deliberate non responders, or should
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the enforcement really strictly stay in the courts.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I think that an administrative fine model is a completely
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: acceptable fine for basic non compliance. When it comes to
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: filling out the form. I mean, we don't need to
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: be dragging people before the courts because you don't fill
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: out a census quite frankly in my opinion, it but
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: obstructing a census worker that's a different story, right, I
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: mean that should stay in the judicial system. At the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: end of the day. We can't just be a nation
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: of carrots, though. I mean, at some point we do
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: need to use the stick. The census is a law,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and if we don't enforce our laws, there's no point
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: in having them on the books whatsoever. I mean, so like,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: who really cares about public pushback against it when it
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: is the law. I mean, we wouldn't substitute you know,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: not filling out the census with you know, allowing murder
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: because it just happens and you know the laws there,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: but we're not going to enforce it. So I mean
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: it's silly, and you can see how silly it sounds
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: to just ignore the law because some people might complain
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: about it. But yeah, I do think administrative fines are
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: probably the better way to deal with non compliance.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't even want to do that job.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I'd be frightened that some loon would come after me
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: with a baseball bat or something like that. But Okay,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: if you are running field operations for STATS Canada tomorrow morning,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: what a met se, What immediate changes would you implement
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: so something like this never happens again and people feel
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: good about sending and filling out and sending their census
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: into Ottawa.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't think, Gene, that there is
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: a need for policy changes. And again, like I haven't
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: kept up to date on the internal field manuals that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: STATS Canada has for their enumerators since I was there
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, but I would presume that it's pretty
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: well still the same. I would just imagine there just
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: needs to be strict compliance with the regulations that already
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: exist on the books. What I would do is issue
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: a field wide communication immediately reminding every single employee from
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: the lowest one up to the highest one. And if
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I'm at the very top, I would, I guess, see
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: myself on that email, and I would just remind everyone
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: that no, you can't enter private property without explicit permission, period,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and the message attached to that would be needs to
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: be crystal clear. I mean, non compliance would equal immediate
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: discipline or up to dismissal. This is this. I can't
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: believe that we're having a conversation Jeane on air about
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: whether or not a Statscan employee had you know, the
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: right or even just the wherewithal to enter a private residence.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I mean I felt uncomfortable walking onto people's property to
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: get to their front doors, in some cases where they
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: all already had signs saying we don't want anyone coming
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: out of the property. But you know, the job was
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: the job. But to go into someone's house, it's just
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: it's beyond imaginable. Yeah, but we've got the video.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of people have seen it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I've had some I was on the phone with a
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: friend yesterday and goes, have you seen that crazy woman
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: from stats? You know, I have to admit I did
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: have to fill out the long form a couple of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: was it twenty eleven or maybe the previous census before
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: that one? And it really made me laugh because it
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: was one of the questions was do you have an
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: outhouse and how many meters is it from your front door?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Do people still have outhouses?
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Like maybe at the cottage?
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Well maybe I guess so, Hey, listen, interesting take this
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: morning I love it. You have a good weekend.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: There he goes John Letkey. Let Key's got a take
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Fridays right here on the show. We like
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: John a lot