Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 419— Non-traditional, 16 years of experience. Haas vs Kellogg’s MBAi. Darden vs Stern.

Transcript

MBA Wire Taps 419— Non-traditional, 16 years of experience. Haas vs Kellogg’s MBAi. Darden vs Stern. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, April 14, 2025. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things this week?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So I'm coming to you from Atlanta. I've been on the road, as you know, all week, visiting some schools and things. And, yeah, I've never been to Atlanta before. It seems pretty nice here. The weather's terrific. So have you been down here?
• 0:40
  Speaker B: I'm not sure if I have, but one of my favorite colleagues in MBA admissions works at Amory. Oh, wow. Have you visited Amory?
• 0:50
  Speaker A: Supposed to later today, actually. So, yeah.
• 0:52
  Speaker B: Very good. Well, if you come across Andrea Hershada, just tell her I said hello.
• 0:57
  Speaker A: All right, I will. So what's been going on? I mean, it's been quieter now, and there's a lot of people posting to Decision Wire about, you know, where to go because they have offers if they're lucky. But, yeah, what's been going on? Anything interesting to report?
• 1:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, things are quietening down a little bit on. On Livewire, but. But recognize we're in round three now, and as we've mentioned before, each year, I suppose, round three cycle is much shorter. So whilst we're seeing several application deadlines coming and going for round three, we're also now moving into interview invite season already. So, yeah, London Business School and Wharton and Fuqua all are rolling out interview invites next week. And actually Schaller and Washington Olin are going to be releasing decisions.
• 1:49
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm going to go over to Scheller today actually, too.
• 1:52
  Speaker B: So because they're here, that's exactly where you are.
• 1:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. All right. So, yeah, so I guess I can't believe round three is always very compressed, as we say. And, yeah, I mean, it sounds like from what I hear from schools, I feel like round three is better today than it was, let's say, 10 years ago. I feel like schools are a bit more open to looking at candidates and, I mean, we'll see. But anyway, so hopefully people who are waiting for news there get good news. I did want to mention that we announced this. I guess it's maybe a week ago at this point, but we have a new partnership with Leland which is like a platform for coaches. Right. So if you need admissions consulting, if you need a test prep coach or even a career coach, someone to help you, like, you know, figure out what your, you know, what your kind of ideal job is, or even to prepare you for, like, a Consulting Case Interview Leland is this amazing platform. They have like I think thousands of coaches on their platform and at all price ranges too, which is what's, I think so great about it. So if you're, you know, thinking I want an admissions consultant but you don't want to, you know, spend your life savings on it, you can usually find people on their platform who will do, you know, hourly work for you and give you advice, read stuff. And it's just, we're really happy about this. I think it's a great fit with Clear Advent. I know you have been privy to a lot of those conversations with the team as we've rolled this out, but I'm happy about this. It's going to be really cool.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's really exciting. I mean we had a great relationship with Stacy Blackman over several, many years now I would say. But yeah, all great relationships. Not all, but some do do sort of come, come to a very positive end, I suppose. And Leland does seem to fit the type of model that ClearAdmit adopts itself in terms of sort of really trying to provide a sort of broad access to these types of services. So you might argue that Stacy's sort of consulting outstanding work but maybe at the very top end of the market. Whereas I think with Leland there's just a little bit broader coverage and, and, and like you say, more bespoke type support and, and so forth. So, so yeah, it's going to be exciting.
• 4:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: And, and yeah, and they're not even sponsoring this show yet, so we've given them a heck of a plug.
• 4:14
  Speaker A: No, but there, I mean there are partners going forward on this and I think, you know, you make a great point. I mean you can find the kind of high end consultants on this platform if you want, you know, if you want to buy a five school package to kind of work, you know, get, get all kinds of advice on your applications. But you can also find as I was saying, you know, someone who's maybe, you know, just offering hourly consulting and I love that they have that range of people available and, and the consultants on their platform have like pretty stellar reviews. And I see some friends from like agac, the association of International Graduate Admissions Consultants who are on that platform. So it just allows us to work with a lot more people. And yeah, I'm excited about this. It's going to be awesome. Other than that, we have a bunch of events. Speaking of sponsorship, I think Leland are going to come to our fair that we're doing up in Boston and in Case you've not been listening to the show of late, we're doing this kind of MBA fair with I think there are going to be 24 schools there and panels. Been trying to put together a panel about post MBA jobs. And it's going to be panels fair where you can walk around, talk to the schools and then obviously networking the schools that are coming, which is essentially the top 24 schools in the United States. They're bringing alumni in many cases as well, so you can connect with former students. And I should say London Business School has taken part two. So they are the one non US school that'll be there, but should be a lot of fun. And you can sign up at bit Le Mbafair 2025. So that's the big thing. And then we have a bunch of virtual events as well in May in case you can't make it to Boston. We're going to sit down with a number of schools and you can sign up for those as bit ly appoverview25. So we just have a lot going on. I keep saying this week after week, but it's exciting.
• 6:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely fantastic.
• 6:03
  Speaker A: The other stuff in terms of news and notes. So NYU Stern has hired a new dean. His name is Bharat Anand and he is going to be the next dean. I think he starts, I want to say in August of 25 here, so in a couple of months. He's previously been a chaired professor, vice provost and teacher at Harvard Business School. And if memory serves, he's kind of a digital transformation guy. He's been widely published. I think he's kind of an expert on strategy, econ, marketing, sort of the intersection of all that. And so big news for NYU Stern. They must be excited to have poached away a great faculty member from Harvard to come and lead their school.
• 6:45
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, fantastic. And if he is an expert on digital transformation, that's clearly an important hot subject area area right now.
• 6:54
  Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. So we did an article about his appointment, so you can read that on the site. We also did an article about Wharton's new AI major. They've introduced a concentration, because I don't think they call them majors at Wharton, but a concentration in artificial intelligence for business. And they say that it's designed to address the demand for AI related skills and expertise and that the program is going to equip students with technical understanding of AI systems and their applications. But also, I thought this was really interesting. It's supposed to tackle kind of ethical, economic, legal and societal issues that AI Raises. So a lot to unpack there, but some pretty exciting news out of Wharton.
• 7:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I wonder how long it'll take until this becomes the most popular major at Wharton and how long it'll take for other schools to be rolling out similar majors. And I assume that Ethan Mollick is heading this initiative up. He's been. Yeah, he's, he's, he's an entre entrepreneurship professor there, I think, at Wharton, and has written a lot in this field of sort of generative AI and so on and so forth. I follow him on LinkedIn. He's absolutely fascinating individuals. So, yeah, it doesn't surprise me Wharton's doing this and I really do think it's a big step in the right direction.
• 8:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, very, very interesting. And we did an article about it, so there's more, more information on the website. The other thing we wrote about Alex, and in fact, you weighed in with quote on this, so I wanted to get your take. You know, U.S. news published their NBA rankings. It's that time of year. And, you know, I'll give you the, I'll give you the top 10 so our listeners can kind of know where things stand. And then I'm just curious to hear what you think of this. So Wharton checked in at number one, alone at number one. They had shared that spot last year, I believe, with Stanford. But this year, Stanford is tied for number two with Kellogg. We then have Chicago, Booth at number four, MIT five, Harvard six in a tie with Stern and Tuck, followed by Columbia at number nine, Yale at 10. And I'll give you a couple more. Berkeley is tied at number 11 with UVA. Michigan and Duke are tied at number 13, and then Cornell at number 15. So that's kind of the lay of the land. What's your view on these rankings?
• 9:15
  Speaker B: Well, they got the right top 15, give or take one, but, but I mean, yeah, congratulations to Wharton. That's absolutely fantastic. And you know, clearly Wharton's one of the top three MBA programs in the world, along with Stanford, but also along with Harvard. And I just think any ranking that doesn't reflect that in, in some way is, is getting compromised, whether it's the algorithm they use or what. However they're figuring this out, I think they need to be a bit smarter because I don't think Harvard's number six in anyone's book.
• 9:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. So, you know, as you may recall, about a year ago, they really revamped.
• 9:54
  Speaker B: The methodology and they used to be fantastic. I used to think that US News was The gold standard for many years.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think what's happened is they've really shifted the methodology to be. It's more than 50% around careers and US news for me, what used to be more noted about kind of selectivity and the kind of the admissions sort of process, like who is in, who's getting. Getting in and what's the caliber of individual that's getting in, what are their test scores, GPAs. And they have some of that stuff in there still. But it's been super diminished in terms of the role that it plays in the ranking, because I think somewhere almost like towards 60% of this ranking is various components related to career. And yet, and this is what our colleague Elliot pointed out, the career data is only about the people who were seeking employment. And as we know, especially at a lot of top schools like say, hbs, that percentage has been going down. And some of that's due to people either looking to do sort of an entrepreneurial endeavor or to set up their own thing. So the data, this large segment of the data is sort of not here. And so that's a little troubling to me because these schools are. I can't remember what the number is, but isn't it like, I mean, is it what, 60% or less of the Stanford graduating class are actually looking for work? I think it's even less than 60. So there's this big chunk of people that are not really being counted up in this. So, yeah, I agree. It used to be the gold standard. I'm not so sure now.
• 11:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's difficult because I actually quite like the idea of measuring rankings by outcomes. That does seem to make sense. But as you point out, how it's done is open to sort of interpretation or whatever you want to call it. But I also think there's now a challenge measuring the income, you know, quality, the incoming classes, if less and less folks are taking the GMAT. Right. You know, 10 years ago, everyone took the GMAT right? Now, then it got eroded with the GRE. It's been further eroded with the executive assessment as well as GMAT test score waivers and so forth. And I just did a bit of an analysis off of Livewire looking at the. The amount of schools that are accepting waivers. And so for. And it's astounding.
• 12:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, yeah, I agree.
• 12:26
  Speaker B: So, yeah, the marketplace is changing and how we measure quality students is changing to some degree.
• 12:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, I just. Yeah, yeah, I feel like for me, I would want inputs and outputs, so. I agree. Diogo you can make half of the ranking careers related and stuff if you want to. But I also think the other half should be who's coming into the program and what's the selectivity like? And because you learn so much, I mean, I learned a ton, probably just about as much as I learned learned from my professors, I learned from my fellow classmates when I was in an MBA program. And so in any event, it is what it is. But we, you know, we report on this stuff. And I think that, you know, rankings are useful as kind of an initial lens to view the landscape through. But, you know, as you dig in and you hear over and over on this show, the right school is not always, you know, the right school might vary for different candidates and their, you know, needs and things. So in any event, always fun to debate this stuff. But we did run an admissions tip on the website as well, Alex, about rejection. So I know we've been talking a lot in the last few weeks about people getting in and making decisions about where to go, but some people come up empty. And so we did this tip about what do you do next if you haven't had success? So I think that's a really vital one to read. Hopefully not too many of our listeners have to read that one, but it's there to help if you need it.
• 13:45
  Speaker B: Is it? Go have a drink.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: Step one. Yeah. No, I don't. There's. There is some really good advice, though, about how to kind of reposition, assess, et cetera, and move forward. Then the last thing we did before we can talk about our candidates this week is we connected with four students, well, four former students, as part of our Real Humans alumni series that's been ongoing. So we caught up with Bruno, who went to IMD, class of 22. He works at Johnson and Johnson as a finance manager, and he's originally from Buenos Aires, and he had worked at, I guess at Philip Morris before business school as a treasurer, kind of a finance person, accounting, et cetera. And we just asked, is there one thing you would absolutely do again as part of your job search? And Bruno says, learn about sectors. Once you learn about industry sector dynamics, this really facilitates the understanding of the company specifics that you need for an interview process. You also start to use the interviews to deepen your knowledge about the different industries. So it becomes more of an interesting process than a stressful one. So I think that his advice there is really good. And I feel like, like, you know, when you go into these interviews, especially if you're like him, you know, he's working at J and J. So he was obviously looking at industry jobs and you need to understand the dynamics that are currently taking place in that industry. And so it sounds like he set out to really do that and then use the kind of interview process with different firms to get even more information as he went along. So kind of interesting advice.
• 15:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Absolutely.
• 15:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. We also caught up with Alejandra from Cornell. She's a grad from class of 23 and she's working at a, I guess she describes it as climate tech, renewables and environment startup. It's called Elephant Energy. And she hails from Mexico City originally had studied accounting and management as an undergrad and had done a lot of work in the energy sector and sustainability before coming to Cornell. We said, what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of the job search? And she said, be bold enough to decide early on if the regular MBA career path is the right fit. I would have saved time and rejections and then used that time to pursue the area I prefer. So what she's getting at here is she realized partway through, you know, that she wanted to do something more kind of startup, entrepreneurial and in this sustainability, renewables kind of domain. But I'm guessing from her comment that she spent some time also at the outset probably interviewing for like consulting or banking jobs or, you know, kind of what we call traditional jobs. And she wishes she had just sort of more quickly realized that that's what she wanted with the sort of entrepreneurial kind of pursuit or startup pursuit. So that's good advice.
• 16:23
  Speaker B: And we're hearing similar. Sorry, but we're hearing similar sort of advice to, you know, from other alums that have that less traditional career search. Don't get overwhelmed by the fact that the more traditional career searches happen earlier in the in the season and it's effectively distracts you from your passion and really what you want to do.
• 16:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. So really good advice from Alejandra, who graduated from Cornell. We then caught up with Anna from Vanderbilt. She's a 23 grad working at Amazon. She's a senior product manager in the web services group over there. Anna comes from. I'm going to get this wrong, but she comes from Kailua. Kailua, I think Hawaii. So I'm getting that that's the name of the city, but I probably mispronouncing it. So she went to undergrad in Texas, studied psychology, and had a number of different tech roles prior to her mba. And we said, what's One thing you would absolutely do again as part of the job search. And she says prepare a strong set of stories and get off book. The Amazon interview prep process is intense, but it will prepare you for any interview. Lean in, make a nerdy spreadsheet with all your answers in star format. That's situation, task, action, result, I believe. And she says study and practice until your responses feel natural. Being able to clearly articulate your impact, your problem solving approach and leadership skills makes all the difference, not just in landing the job, but in building confidence for any career move. So pretty good advice. It sounds like Amazon has a very rigorous recruiting process, so good to know, right?
• 18:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. And she probably has a second career in interview coaching maybe.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: So maybe she's on Leland, you know, offering her services by the the hour.
• 18:10
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 18:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the last student or alum, sorry that we caught up with is Elise, who is a London Business school grad, class of 24, so recent grad, and she is the co founder at Rose Ridge Insights. Elise hails from Ottawa, Canada and she attended Queen's University studying global development as an undergrad. Had worked in consulting and climate tech roles prior to LBs and she's now she actually this. I love when someone has a really cool IDE idea. So her startup that she's the co founder on focuses on solving the insight to action gap on renewable energy sites like solar. So she talks about how there's still major gaps between gathering data, generating insights and taking action for operations and maintenance activities. And then she can't. And then she goes on to just say I have to keep the exact idea under wraps because they're still building out this company and haven't publicly kind of launched yet. But essentially they're building a kind of a software service platform, platform B2B that's going to help deliver data around renewables to companies so that they can then kind of tweak, you know, how they're managing their energy consumption and stuff. So all very complicated but very interesting. And you know, we did ask her, is there anything you would change or do differently as part of your job search? And I thought this was a good question because here she's starting something and she said many people in their first year after graduating realize what they want in a job or career has changed. So you know, essentially they take that first job and realize that oh, this might not be quite right. So she says, I encourage everyone to keep an eye out for opportunities even once they've accepted their post MBA role and even while in their role as we should all be doing at all times anyway. You never know what will come up and when. So. Interesting advice.
• 20:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, brilliant. And I'll just let you know. Aligned with her business. My favorite app on my iPad is my battery app. And really being able to track how much solar energy we're generating, what we're using, the level of the battery dictates, then when we do the washing, the drying, etc. Etc. So yeah, I think this is a really interesting space that they're exploring.
• 20:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. So do you get some sun in Cornwall for those solar panels?
• 20:35
  Speaker B: I'm going to tell you, we've had a week and a half of no cloud at all.
• 20:39
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. All right, so it does happen. So you're building free elect?
• 20:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Free electricity the last week and a half for sure.
• 20:47
  Speaker A: Wow. Awesome. All right, well, let's get into the candidates. Obviously, if you want to write to Alex or me, you can just write to infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps and we will write you back. Alex, anything else before we talk about this week's candidates?
• 21:02
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 21:02
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week is applying to six schools. The schools are Duke Emory, Georgia Tech, Indiana Kelly and UNC Kenan Flagler. They had a mostly had a career in health care before applying here. And they're thinking about consulting or maybe even entrepreneurship or non profit. They have a number of ideas. GPA was a 3.3. And here's where things get interesting. They have 16 years of work experience. They would love to land in Atlanta after business school. And they did tell us that, you know, they have this bachelor of science in psychology from Ohio University. They have that 3, 3 GPA. And they said that they went to school for two years and had mediocre grades, dropped out for nine years to have a family and work, and then came back and finished the last two years very strong with a 4.0in both all semesters. Okay. They're actually put onto the provost list multiple times because of those grades in the last two years of the degree. They also mentioned that they were working full time and were, you know, secretary of the psych club and mothering two kids, so juggling a lot of stuff. And you know, this person goes on, I mean, she talks a little bit about her background. She has a unique background and she spent time living in Mexico, working and studying in Guatemala and Peru and, you know, just all kinds of really interesting outside activities and life experiences. But she's asking us about her chances, you know, with business school and how to kind of position all this. And so she's just kind of wondering what we think. And so I, I can't wait to hear what you think because this is a very unusual profile. We don't have a test score either here. She didn't share one.
• 22:52
  Speaker B: Right.
• 22:52
  Speaker A: So what do you make at this? This is not a usual path into business school.
• 22:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really interesting lived experience type of candidate in terms of probably the first couple of years in college, they were rudderless, they weren't committed, etc. Etc. They dropped out and you know, 16 years later they've now completed their undergrad, they got perfect grades for a couple of years and you know, have obviously done some interesting things as well as having family and so on and so forth. So from that perspective, this is going to be a really unorthodox candidacy. But I do think there's interest and opportunity here. Certainly some of their outside activities sounded super interesting. They've got, for whatever reasons, a really interesting focus on Peru and Mexico. So it'd be good to tease that out a little bit more. I think they really do need to have very well focused post MBA goals. I think when you're more unorthodox, there's going to be more burden on explaining specifically the why MBA and what they plan to do afterwards. So I think they're going to have to spend some time really developing that side of their overall profile. They're also going to need to take the. And also it's not just because they're unorthodox profile, but you know, they're going to be an older candidate so there should be more focus on. All right, why does it make sense now? You're not just a typical three or four years of work experience where it more naturally fits and they're going to. I do believe, even though I've just looked at a load of data that suggests more and more schools are accepting GMAT waivers or test score waivers. I think in this case, again, as an unorthodox candidate, an older candidate and so forth, the value of a really strong test score goes up significantly.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker B: So, you know, yes, they'll probably be able to get some waivers, but I would argue that if they really felt that with strong preparation they can get above average test scores at some of these top Atlanta based MBA programs, whatever it is, then that's definitely the right route to take. Graham.
• 25:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, so you're right. All the schools on the list Duke, Emory, Georgia Tech, and Kenan Flagler. There's one exception, Indiana Kelly. But the others are all kind of down in this part of the world. Not, you know, some in Atlanta, some in North Carolina. But yeah, I think, you know, it is one of those instances where because this candidate is older. Yeah. You kind of want the test score to just kind of reassure you that they're going to really survive the MBA curriculum. I mean, also the work experiences, you know, she mentioned mentions like seven years as an optician and also some time as a mortgage loan originator, both with, you know, some quantitative experience. But I still think that these are kind of non traditional roles, you know, sort of coming into business school. So I think she's going to need to. Yeah, it'd be, it would be smart to take a test if possible because I did note that, you know, this is looks like she might be applying now, but it's unclear to me if she's waiting till next fall or trying to get late round applications in. Yeah, I mean this is, you know, must be. She must be in her mid-30s. Right. So, yeah, it's an interesting case. I mean, I found it fascinating to read about some of the stuff that she's done down in, you know, kind of South America. And so I feel like there's potential, but as you said, clear goals, a clear head on your shoulders about like why you need this degree are all going to be really, really vital. And yeah, if there's a test score to match that 4.0 in those last two years of undergrad, that would be super helpful.
• 26:51
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker A: All right. So I want to thank her for sharing her profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two, our second candidate comes from a decision wire entry that you picked, Alex. And this person has a great dilemma. They applied to Berkeley, Kellogg and UCLA and they ran the table. They ended up with a $70,000 scholarship at Berkeley. They also got into Kellogg, which is giving them 10,000. And then Anderson sounds like they did not get a scholarship, but they were accepted. They're starting school this fall. They want to work in tech. They had a 685 on the GMAT Focus Edition. That's a very strong score. And they did mention that for Kellogg, it's actually the MBA I, which is a special version of the MBA that's kind of a blend of. It's sort of like a tech NBA is how I would describe it. And they're leaning Haas because of the money. They talk about having a goal in tech PM they'd love to work at Google, Adobe, Amazon, meta, et cetera. And they're hoping to settle. And this is the wrinkle that I think makes this a little interesting is they're hoping to settle in Texas post mba. But they say they would be okay with LA short term, but not San Francisco and not Chicago. So what do you do with this? I mean, what's your take here?
• 28:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's quite difficult. Like, on the surface, if you look, the scholarship money at Haas elevates Haas probably at least comparable to Kellogg, if you go with the idea that Kellogg's in the slightly higher tier, which, you know, that's what we would argue mostly. So Haas is in that top 10 tier and Kellogg's in that sort of top seven tier, as it were. But this whole notion of wanting to be in Texas does actually make me think that probably Kellogg in the longer run is going to be a better option. There's going to be a stronger alumni network from, for Kellogg in Texas, even though Texas won't be Kellogg's major market, they're a larger program and they'll send a larger percentage of alums back to or to Texas. And I do think that matters. So with Kellogg being in the higher tier and the strength of its alumni network in that region of Texas does to me make me think that that overcomes the 80 or 90,000 scholarship differential. Graeme?
• 29:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, so actually the differential is, what is it, 60, right. Because they have 10 and 70 and cost of living actually might be a little bit lower in Evanston vs. Berkeley, but I don't know, that might be. It could be a wash in the end. But yeah, this is interesting. I mean, the first thing when I saw this, I was like, wait, if you want to settle in Texas post MBA, why didn't you apply to McCombs? I mean, that would be a good option too, for tech. And so, so, yeah, it's a little tricky. And I also found it interesting. They don't want to work in Chicago and they don't want to work in San Francisco. So they're kind of ruling out the two main markets for the programs that are the highest ranked that have accepted them. So it makes for some challenging decision making. And honestly, I would just encourage them to kind of do what you said. Look at what is the alumni activity, alumni clubs, et cetera, on offer in Texas. How active are they? And yeah, just get a feel for it. And it could be that because Kellogg is pumping out many more grads each year that they have More folks down there, as you point out. But I would encourage them to have those conversations and obviously, if possible, go to welcome admitted student events to sort of get a feel, because every program's different and they might have a better fit with one versus the other. I mean, I will say if we're not talking geography, both of these programs could get them those types of jobs that they're describing, these tech PM jobs. So it's not that, I mean, I think they could land on their fe. Just that, you know, they're probably most likely to land in San Francisco with a lot of these jobs. Right. So that's the, that's the problem. So in any event, yeah, this is an easy. Is not an easy one. I know both you and Elliot weighed in on the website and, you know, Elliot said, you know, you're going to be fine either way, but figure out what's your personal fit because you, you gotta, you know. Yeah, it's, it's just not an easy one, I think.
• 31:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like most of these conversations, there's no absolute right answer.
• 31:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. All right, I want to thank that person for sharing their outcomes. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week also comes from a decision wire entry. This person's undecided. They applied to Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, mit, nyu, Wharton, and Darden. And they ended up with offers at Carnegie Mellon where they're actually, you have $120,000 scholarship. They have a full scholarship where they got in at Cornell. Same thing for Stern and same thing for Darden. So they didn't get into Wharton and mit, but here they've got, you know, four offers of admission, three of which are full rides. Okay, so. And they tell us that, you know, they had a 710 on the GMAT. They want to get into consulting, ideally working at Bain, BCG or McKinsey. They're starting school in the fall and they say that they're leaning towards Darden and Stern as the kind of frontrunners and that Darden is a little bit out in front for them. And they say Darden. The reasons they get for Darden are better beautiful campus classes and engaging faculty, community culture and a cheaper cost of living. On the Stern side, they say interesting experiential opportunities, opportunities, more diversity, alumni from and in diverse industries, more entrepreneurial resources, more networking opportunities and better prestige. So that's their own assessment of like these two. And I, you know, I think we can say if they want to work in consulting, they're probably right to have narrowed it down. I mean, I think they have to eliminate Tepper because they're not getting as much money. They have free rides everywhere else. And so. Yeah. What do you make of this, though? It's an interesting conundrum.
• 33:09
  Speaker B: Where did they come up with this notion that Stern has better prestige?
• 33:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, that is an interesting. I mean, I think of both these schools as being, you know, they're both like every year top 16, if not, you know, sort of top 12 type schools, or even top 10 in some cases. Right. So we just saw Stern was what, number six in U.S. news. Right. So I think. Yeah, I'm not sure where they're getting that. Do you think it's maybe because people know if you say, I went to NYU and you're, you know, walking on the street in somewhere far across the earth, you know, people might know it more than they would know Darden. I don't know. I'm not sure where they're getting that.
• 33:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably it. NYU versus Virginia. Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, but probably.
• 33:46
  Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, obviously Stern's comparable to HBS number six in the US News, so it seems obvious they should go to Stern. But again, we just don't buy that type of logic. And we know within the MBA environment and that's where they're going to be interviewing and so on and so forth, that really these two schools are in the same tier, just outside of that top 10 tier that has sits in effectively. So I would strike out the prestige argument. I totally buy everything else that they said in terms of the difference between Stern and Darden. And so then it does boil down to personal fit, as Elliot likes to talk about. So what matters most, being on a beautiful campus, more tighter community, et cetera, et cetera, versus the additional resources that New York provides Stern, but also the distraction that New York provides Stern and so forth. I think that's sort of where it boils down to. And we know that Darden is renowned for its preparation for consulting. I'm sure Stern also does very well in strategy consulting, MBB placement. But this is Darden's wheelhouse. And their use of the case method support supports that. Their heavy use of the case method because, of course, all schools use the case case method to some degree. So, yeah, I think, you know, I think the personal fit side, I. E. Do you want to be in, you know, in. In a. An environment like Darden versus Do you want to be in New York City? That should be drive the answer to this question, because they are two totally different types of environments, I would think.
• 35:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's interesting. Elliot on our team left a comment about MBB consulting placement specifically, and he actually says he thinks Darden has a little bit of an edge. And I think that does bear out in the sort of number of people placed at MBB firms. But yeah, he then goes on to say, as you point out, that it's, you know, it's sort of do you want the vibrancy of downtown New York City or do you want a college town with a kind of strong culture and community and stuff? So now I think, you know, people at NYU would say that Stern's actually pretty well known for having a great kind of community and, you know, very close knit for an urban school especially. But there's just different environments. So, yeah, this person needs to sort of figure that out. I mean, wow, what a great position to be in to have these full rides from a couple of really top schools. I mean, it's just the money's flowing for these schools.
• 36:24
  Speaker B: I just want to make, make a comment about that last remark because whilst I don't doubt that Stern cultivates a really good, strong environment, there will be a significant percentage of that student body that comes from New York City. City. And that then makes it a bit more challenging. Right. Whereas, I mean, we know when I worked at Wharton, you were a Wharton students, that there were very, very few folks at Wharton that were coming from Philly. Right, right. So everyone was new to the environment and that really does help develop that sort of more intimate culture and so forth. So, yeah, I'm sure Stern does a great job. Job. But I know 30% of their students probably already have a strong set of networks established in New York.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's not that necessarily. They have a ton of students who are from New York, although they probably have more than, you know, than Wharton does or something or. Well, maybe not. But the thing that coming to my mind is more this idea that everybody knows someone in New York. So even if you arrive and you've moved there, you, you have other people you could hang out with. Whereas, yeah, for better or for worse at Wharton, like no one had anybody to hang out with because no one knew anyone in Philadelphia. But anyway, yeah, so I hope this person can get to both campuses and make an informed decision. But congratulations to them for getting all those amazing offers. Alex, thanks for picking these out. I guess we keep getting these undecided entries and they're fun to talk about and I love this time of year for that. So we'll keep them coming, I guess. And if you're willing and I'm not too jet lagged, we'll do another episode next week.
• 38:03
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care. Care. Thank you.