Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Dr. Karen Cox, Ph.D., RN, FACHE, FAAN, President of Chamberlain University and Senior Executive of Adtalem Global Education

Transcript

Dr. Karen Cox, Ph.D., RN, FACHE, FAAN, President of Chamberlain University and Senior Executive of Adtalem Global Education · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm Mariah
• 0:03
  Taylor, assistant editor, and I'm thrilled to be
• 0:05
  interviewing Karen Cox, president of Chamberlain University, on
• 0:08
  the podcast today. Doctor Cox, thank you so
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  much for joining me. I am so excited
• 0:13
  to get your insights on the trends around
• 0:15
  men in nursing and what they're doing in
• 0:16
  the field. But before we dive in, I'd
• 0:19
  love for you to introduce yourself and tell
• 0:20
  us a little bit about your background.
• 0:23
  Thanks, Marielle. I'm excited about this topic as
• 0:25
  well.
• 0:26
  So I am president of Chamberlain
• 0:29
  University, as you mentioned, have been in that
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  role for 6 years. But prior to that,
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  I spent 24 years as a chief nursing
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  officer
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  and chief operating officer at the Children's Hospital
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  in Kansas City. So have a
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  Hospital in Kansas City.
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  So have a a mix of service and,
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  academic background.
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  And and importantly, I think, yes, I started
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  my career as a licensed practical nurse, so
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  I'm someone who understands kind of the the
• 0:55
  multiple pathways that you get to nursing.
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  And that's really, I think,
• 1:00
  meaningful when we talk about men and how
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  they end up in nursing.
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  So, doctor Cox, as president, what are some
• 1:07
  of the demographics of nursing at Chamberlain in
• 1:10
  Wogan?
• 1:11
  So when you think about,
• 1:13
  men in nursing,
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  Mariah, at Chamberlain,
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  as of our
• 1:18
  last fall,
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  we had about a little over 4200
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  students that were men enrolled,
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  which is significant number.
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  And we awarded
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  18
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  1823 nursing degrees and certificates
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  to men,
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  in f y
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  20 24.
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  Over the
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  past 4 past 3 years,
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  Chamberlain has awarded
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  over 45 100 nursing degrees and certificates to
• 1:47
  men.
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  So it pretty significant. And then,
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  that includes both pre and post licensure students.
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  And at Walden,
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  for post licensure students, they had over 211
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  100 men
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  enrolled in the same time period,
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  and they awarded 729
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  nursing degrees and certificates
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  to men,
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  in fiscal year 2024.
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  So pretty significant. And
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  one of our our objectives at Chamberlain is
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  to continue to grow that number,
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  because
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  as the largest school of nursing in the
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  country, when we do things, it makes an
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  outsized impact, and we're hoping to have a
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  truly outsized impact on the number of men
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  in nursing.
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  Excellent.
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  Let's dive into that. What factors do you
• 2:35
  think are driving the increase of men in
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  nursing, and how have you seen those trends
• 2:39
  evolve over the years?
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  A couple of things.
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  One is,
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  you know, nursing has become
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  a profession
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  since the pandemic
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  that people have really started to understand the
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  importance
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  of the role
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  in a very different way.
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  And
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  while it's always been the case that nurses,
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  men or women, nurses have to be
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  very compassionate,
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  very much a right brain,
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  able to connect with people,
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  able to develop therapeutic
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  and and
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  relate in, individual relationships
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  with people
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  of of all kinds,
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  not just the people they know. And so
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  that's really something everyone understands,
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  but I don't think it was fully appreciated
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  till the pandemic
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  how much,
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  nurses have to know the science and, you
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  know, the critical judgment skills that they have
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  and how much they work fairly independently
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  and and making,
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  important decisions
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  in care that's provided.
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  And so I think having that understanding that
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  it's not just what people might connotate as
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  a something women are really good at and
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  men aren't, which, by the way, isn't true.
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  But they they just that stereotype.
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  And so
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  I think the people that have really,
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  stepped out into nursing full force have been
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  people with military backgrounds.
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  So for the last 20, 25 years,
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  people who are men and women coming out
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  of the service, who are either medics or
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  were,
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  already,
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  registered nurses
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  come into the civilian workforce.
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  And those men that come in, the people
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  see them and they understand,
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  you know, what the impact of what they
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  can do, looks like. The other group
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  that really has,
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  embraced
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  nursing are are people that have been first
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  responders.
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  So which is
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  men and women, but men who are first
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  responders,
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  who are on,
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  ambulances, who work in emergency rooms, they see
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  what nurses do. And so, again, they understand
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  how much of an impact nurses make in
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  all the all parts of providing health care.
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  Excellent.
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  What kind of trends are you seeing in
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  the career path that these men take? Are
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  they gravitating
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  towards any kind of specific specialty or leadership
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  roles? And how can the industry retain that
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  talent?
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  Typically,
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  in the in the past,
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  men have been more
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  drawn to what I would call critical care.
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  So,
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  intensive care units, emergency
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  rooms, perhaps
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  perioperative or operating room settings.
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  And that but that's continuing to change. For
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  example, when I
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  worked at the a children's hospital here in
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  Kansas City,
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  there were at least 50 men who were
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  nurses there
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  in many different specialties.
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  So it it's broadening out.
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  Also, men are
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  more interest more likely to think about becoming
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  a
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  CRNA or a certified registered nurse anesthetist,
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  which requires
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  nursing
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  experience as a
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  in critical care for 2 years and then
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  taking that,
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  master's program.
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  But the other thing that we really notice
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  is men end up in leadership roles at,
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  really, at a higher percentage than women. Now
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  they're they only make up 10 to 12%
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  of but
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  they're
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  disproportionately higher percentages in leadership.
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  And there if you look at chief nursing
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  officers across the country,
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  there's a fair there's a higher proportion of
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  men than just 10%.
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  That's fascinating.
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  What kind of unique barriers or challenges do
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  these students or nurses face both in education
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  and workforce?
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  The first is really how they're
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  viewed, how nursing is viewed, and there's still
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  some of that
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  belief out there that nursing is really just
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  as a very female and or,
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  subservient
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  profession,
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  and nothing could be further than the truth.
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  You can ask physicians
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  about the importance of nurses in all aspects
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  of of health care, but particularly in the,
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  inpatient setting. So there's still some of that,
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  out there.
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  And and so that's something
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  people face when they say, oh, I'm gonna
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  I'm going to nursing I'm a man, and
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  I'm going to nursing school. So sometimes
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  there's,
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  hesitancy there, and and they feel
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  that somehow that's,
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  not a profession that men
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  should or would be attracted to.
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  The other barrier really is,
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  patients and making sure patients understand
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  that they're they're nurses, they're student nurses. And
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  and, usually,
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  those,
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  misperceptions
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  or
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  misunderstandings
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  about about men in nursing goes right away
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  as soon as they start interacting with
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  these men who
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  are just extraordinary
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  nursing students and become extraordinary
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  nurses. Probably one of the most exciting things
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  that happened for the profession
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  is for for the first time, the 2
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  largest,
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  the 2 most influential
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  nursing professional organizations
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  in the last couple of years both had
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  men
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  as leaders for the first time. And so
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  doctor Ernest Grant was the,
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  president of the American Nurses Association,
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  and doctor,
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  Kenneth White
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  was president of the American Academy of Nursing.
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  And that, I think, really signaled
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  the changes,
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  you know, from a at the
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  highest professional level,
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  what it was that men were able to
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  accomplish
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  and that they were here to stay as
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  leaders within our profession.
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  So fascinating.
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  What do you think health care organizations can
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  do to help address some of those barriers
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  and challenges?
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  I think, Marie, one of the things they
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  can do
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  is highlight men
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  that are in nursing roles within the organization.
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  And you can do that in a variety
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  of ways. You can do that through Daisy
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  recognition
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  awards. You can do that through
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  just, you know, promoting stories within the organization,
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  but also outside outside
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  the organization. So when there's an opportunity to
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  talk about a particular patient
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  care issue, that that you seek out the
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  men who are in nursing roles to be
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  those spokespeople as much as possible.
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  Again, just to normalize
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  it. And I know that the it they
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  also there's
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  a association
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  of men in nursing,
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  and I think having a strong
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  connection to that as a health system is
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  really
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  important. Again, it just shows that
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  there's,
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  a
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  desire to have men come into the field.
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  And, you know, the most important thing about
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  all of this is
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  there aren't, number 1, enough nurses.
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  And if we only go to the usual
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  suspects
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  of people who have typically become registered nurses,
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  we're not going to solve for that problem.
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  If you think about the fact that we
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  have 10 to 12%
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  of nurses are men,
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  if you increase that to 20%
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  over a 5 year period,
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  that alone would would dramatically
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  impact for the positive,
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  the shortage of nurses because they're net new.
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  They're not the people who typically would have
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  gone into nursing.
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  Absolutely.
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  And as we all know, the nursing shortage
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  has been going on for a while now.
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  So what do you think systems can do
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  to become more attractive to men in nursing?
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  I think the first part is really backing
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  up from the the point of where people
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  are thinking about what their next what their
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  career is gonna be. And there's 2 real
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  quick entry points that I think are important
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  to consider.
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  1 is high school students. And,
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  you know, you don't
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  attract
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  men,
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  young men who are in high school into
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  nursing by sending
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  a representative
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  out from a school
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  that is a,
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  you know,
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  22 year old young woman.
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  You have to show that it's like anything
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  else. You have to see yourself.
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  And so the that that's the first step
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  is having outreach
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  where you're showing
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  opportunities
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  and they see it and they can see
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  themselves doing that.
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  The second is really in 2nd career.
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  Oh, you know, I I've talked to enough
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  of our men who are in our nursing
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  programs
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  who have said, you know, they get into
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  what was a stereotypical
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  education
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  and career for a man, and they just
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  found it kind of empty.
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  They didn't feel like they were making connections
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  with people. They weren't impacting
• 12:10
  society in the way that they had hoped,
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  and they saw nursing as a way to
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  do that.
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  You know, when I think about,
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  how people,
• 12:19
  men and women, end up in nursing,
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  just overall, there are a couple of ways
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  to look at it. So I cannot remember,
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  and this is true, I can't remember
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  being a person
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  as a as a 3 or 4 year
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  old. I can't remember ever not knowing
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  that I wanted to be a nurse. So
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  it's it's it's part of me. It's been
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  a part of me. It was going to
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  be a part of me. I either was
• 12:43
  going to be. I was in school or
• 12:45
  I became a nurse.
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  So there was just for whatever reason that
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  was
• 12:50
  I was attracted to that.
• 12:52
  Men come at it from usually a different
• 12:55
  place.
• 12:56
  It's it's later in life, as I mentioned,
• 12:59
  and it's it's more about the opportunities
• 13:03
  that they have, the potential leadership,
• 13:06
  potential that exists,
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  and it's about making a difference
• 13:11
  in a in a different way. So it's
• 13:13
  not so much it you can't really go
• 13:16
  for for the it's a calling or it's
• 13:19
  just something you've always wanted to be. It's
• 13:22
  why now and why me and what is
• 13:25
  it that this has to offer?
• 13:27
  Excellent. This has been such an amazing and
• 13:30
  informative discussion.
• 13:31
  I wanna just thank you again for being
• 13:33
  on the podcast with me today.
• 13:35
  Of course. Thank you. And I and I
• 13:37
  look forward to watching the continued increase of
• 13:41
  men coming into our profession. It will only
• 13:43
  make us stronger.