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Closing Arguments: Murdaugh had Means, Motive, and Opportunity to Kill · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hello, everybody. We have just
0:14
Speaker 1: come out of the courtroom and what a closing argument
0:18
Speaker 1: it has been so far by the state's first Council
0:21
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Waters. But before we could start closing arguments, and
0:26
Speaker 1: I tell you you could hear a pin drop in
0:28
Speaker 1: that courtroom, and I very carefully was watching each jurar
0:33
Speaker 1: that I could see. But before we could even get there,
0:36
Speaker 1: the jury went to Moselle, the hunting lodge, the scene
0:40
Speaker 1: of the murders before closing arguments, bright and early this morning.
0:45
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Judge Newman in our cut four.
0:49
Speaker 1: We're going to have the escort take you all to
0:58
Speaker 1: subject property Moselle to have a view, a jury view
1:04
Speaker 1: of the location. You're not allowed to discuss the case
1:08
Speaker 1: with anyone, and you're not allowed while there to ask
1:12
Speaker 1: any questions of anyone who may be there. If you
1:19
Speaker 1: have any questions, you can only ask me. Now, it
1:24
Speaker 1: has been a year and a half or more since
1:28
Speaker 1: June seventh of twenty twenty one, and things have changed
1:34
Speaker 1: or most likely have changed, so you have to take
1:39
Speaker 1: that in mind and certainly consider that. But still it's
1:42
Speaker 1: the same location and we'll do that tomorrow morning. Taking
1:46
Speaker 1: a jury out of the courthouse, out of the bubble
1:49
Speaker 1: in which they have been existing, is very, very dangerous.
1:54
Speaker 1: Anything can go wrong. As I was mentioning earlier today,
1:59
Speaker 1: if they as one person holding up a sign Murdoch
2:03
Speaker 1: did it, that is grounds for a mistrial with me
2:06
Speaker 1: an all star panel. But first I want to go
2:08
Speaker 1: to veteran trial lawyer Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor in
2:13
Speaker 1: Inner City Atlanta, now defense attorney out of Atlanta. Daryl Cohen,
2:18
Speaker 1: did you ever take a jury out of the courthouse, Nancy.
2:22
Speaker 1: We never did that because my worry is exactly what
2:25
Speaker 1: you had to say. My concern would be they saw something,
2:28
Speaker 1: but an accident, could have been any number of things
2:31
Speaker 1: that would create a problem when it came time to
2:35
Speaker 1: a verdict. And the last thing you want is for
2:38
Speaker 1: a jury's verdict to be nullified based upon outside circumstances.
2:44
Speaker 1: You know, another thing happened in court just before the
2:47
Speaker 1: jury broke and this was when doctor Kinzie was on
2:52
Speaker 1: the stand, just before these closing arguments started. And Christine
2:55
Speaker 1: let me know when you pull up the video in
2:57
Speaker 1: the sound it was the South Carolina Attorney General, the
3:02
Speaker 1: elected Attorney General who came in for the direct examination
3:07
Speaker 1: on rebuttal of doctor Kenzie and the Age, got a
3:12
Speaker 1: long gun and acted out the defense's theory of how
3:18
Speaker 1: Paul was shot. And it was completely ridiculous. Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 1: is with me, forensics expert, founder of Cold Case Research Institute.
3:29
Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl, you gotta be really careful when you
3:32
Speaker 1: start waving a gun around in a courtroom, especially with
3:35
Speaker 1: a jury sitting there. They don't like that, nor does anyone.
3:39
Speaker 1: But when the Age, the Attorney General got that long
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Speaker 1: gun and he had doctor Kenzie crouched down in the
3:47
Speaker 1: position that Paul would have had to have been at
3:51
Speaker 1: the time of the murder to according to the defense,
3:54
Speaker 1: and didn't make any sense. Cheryl. And also, before you answer,
3:58
Speaker 1: keep in mind that right behind the shooter in that scenario,
4:03
Speaker 1: up at the top of the door is all the
4:07
Speaker 1: pellets from the shotgun. So how do you shoot somebody
4:10
Speaker 1: like that and the pellets go back there? It doesn't
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Speaker 1: even make any sense. It's impossible for that to have happened.
4:16
Speaker 1: And that's why what he did to me was genius,
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Speaker 1: show them acted out, proved that this is not possible,
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Speaker 1: not just that we don't believe their theory. It could
4:27
Speaker 1: not have happened. A cartoon couldn't have put the pellets
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Speaker 1: where they lay in any way possible. Guys, I want
4:35
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our cut one. Did
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Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to observe one witness named Michael
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Speaker 1: Sutton who was a forensic mechanical engineer for the defense.
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Speaker 1: I did. Now do you recall any of his conclusions
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Speaker 1: or what his main conclusion was regarding the size of
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Speaker 1: the shooter? I do five foot two to five foot four,
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Speaker 1: basically your many years of law enforcement, experienced, education training.
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Speaker 1: What is your overall opinion on his conclusions? I think
5:03
Speaker 1: his intentions are well, but I think his methods were flawed.
5:07
Speaker 1: The defense determined that there were two potential angles. How
5:11
Speaker 1: confident are you that the methodology used to term those
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Speaker 1: angles are accurate? I have zero confidence from this piece
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Speaker 1: of evidence. When the defense expert says that the shooter
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Speaker 1: has to be between five two and five four, do
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Speaker 1: you disagree with that? I do disagree with that whole heartedly.
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Speaker 1: I just think it's an unknown I don't I mean,
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Speaker 1: there's many more variables you have to know how the
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Speaker 1: shooter was holding the gun, you know, Cheryl. Finally somebody
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Speaker 1: on the stand that speaks plain English, that makes any
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Speaker 1: sense now. That was Kinsey addressing the defense theory that
5:48
Speaker 1: shooter had to be five two or under. But listen
5:51
Speaker 1: to one more thing before everybody on the panel gives
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Speaker 1: me their final vote. Take a listen to our cut three.
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Speaker 1: Kinsey on the stand. I love this guy. Paul has
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Speaker 1: just been shot. Yes, there. And then in the defenses theory,
6:05
Speaker 1: what walking you tell me what to do and you
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Speaker 1: you act us out and I'm gonna do what you
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Speaker 1: tell me to do. Based on the defenses theory of
6:10
Speaker 1: the case, the defense agreed with the assessment that Paul
6:14
Speaker 1: stood there for a moment, leading down his injured left arm,
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Speaker 1: and he slowly walked toward the door. Okay. And what
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Speaker 1: does the shooter do the shooters coming in the door,
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Speaker 1: And then what does the shooter do? He shoots Paul
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Speaker 1: in the back of the head after he passes it, okay,
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Speaker 1: and then shoots Paul the back of the head like this,
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Speaker 1: And where does the blood spatter go? The blood spatter
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Speaker 1: the pellet defects. And one that I didn't know about
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Speaker 1: that the expert collected was in the door frame at
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Speaker 1: the top of the door. The theory. First of all,
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Speaker 1: I think the theory is preposterous in my opinion. Okay,
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Speaker 1: there you go, Chryl. That is where the Age Attorney
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Speaker 1: General and Kinsey were acting out the defense scenario, and
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Speaker 1: when they did it at all, crystallized that it didn't
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Speaker 1: make any sense. Didn't make any sense. And I think
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Speaker 1: Kinsey does does a beautiful job here again showing in motion,
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Speaker 1: in action, this couldn't have happened the way they're wanting
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Speaker 1: the theory to go. It's just like the two shooter theory.
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Speaker 1: What are you what are you giving us that there's
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Speaker 1: any other stranger shooter, much less two of them. They're
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Speaker 1: giving us nothing. The you know, where the pellets landed,
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Speaker 1: where the blood splatter went, everything is not indicative what
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Speaker 1: they put forward. Kensey is showing you everything that went
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Speaker 1: into motion. Is one shooter in this direction not you know,
7:50
Speaker 1: they're make believe story of what happened to Robert and
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Speaker 1: Crispins joining me private an investigator now, but former federal
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Speaker 1: Task Force for the US Department of Justice was with
8:02
Speaker 1: the DA in Miami where there's never a lack of business.
8:06
Speaker 1: He's at Crispin Special Investigations now, Robert. The reason I'm
8:11
Speaker 1: telling everyone about Kinsey and the age at the end
8:16
Speaker 1: of the States Free Bottle because just a couple of
8:18
Speaker 1: hours ago, guys were camped out right in from the courthouse.
8:21
Speaker 1: I ran to get here to you. Once the state's
8:24
Speaker 1: first closing argument was done. Just a couple of hours ago,
8:28
Speaker 1: the jury came back from going to Mozelle. That's the
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Speaker 1: hunting lodge where in the dog kennels the two murders
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Speaker 1: went down. Now, see, they've heard all this testimony and
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Speaker 1: Crispin then they go to the scene. They go in
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Speaker 1: that dog kennel and don't you know, they were looking
8:46
Speaker 1: around and looking up at that door and looking where
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Speaker 1: the bodies would have been, and it had to hit
8:52
Speaker 1: home to them the various arguments they've been hearing. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I mean, actually they got to go see where yesterday
9:01
Speaker 1: they were trying to show how it could not have
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Speaker 1: happened that way. So they actually got to see it,
9:06
Speaker 1: and that's very, very, very important. The only thing I
9:09
Speaker 1: wish they would have done when they went out to
9:11
Speaker 1: do that jury site inspection is I wish somehow they
9:15
Speaker 1: could have orchestrated some type of letting an AR fifteen
9:20
Speaker 1: on a test fire goafe. You see how loud that
9:23
Speaker 1: weapon is and as loud as the shotgun is. Because
9:26
Speaker 1: the timeline going back in time to when he says
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Speaker 1: he wasn't there and he was up at the house,
9:33
Speaker 1: just to see how loud those weapons are and that
9:35
Speaker 1: automatic gunfire is, you would have heard it. It doesn't fit.
9:39
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about what he just said, Darryl Cohen.
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Speaker 1: I wanted to hear that too. I wanted to be
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Speaker 1: inside and Moselle and hears shotgun and a blackout fired
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Speaker 1: at the kennel. I wanted that. But don't you know,
9:55
Speaker 1: if there had been an experiment with the jury there,
9:59
Speaker 1: you'd have one gr that's deafen this ear, another one
10:02
Speaker 1: that has a hearing aid and this and that, another
10:06
Speaker 1: one that wasn't paying attention, and somebody wouldn't have heard it,
10:09
Speaker 1: and then somebody would have heard something different. It's very
10:13
Speaker 1: dangerous matter to try an experiment like that in front
10:16
Speaker 1: of a jury. I mean, Daryl Cohen, do you know
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Speaker 1: how many times I would practice a demonstration in front
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Speaker 1: of the jury before I did it? I mean, there
10:26
Speaker 1: are too many variables that can go wrong, and then
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Speaker 1: you'll send the completely wrong message, Nancy, if it can
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Speaker 1: happen at will, and it's never good. So I agree
10:36
Speaker 1: with you. It pains me sometimes to agree with you,
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Speaker 1: but I do. You don't want to have that type
10:41
Speaker 1: of experiment taking place in front of a jury because
10:46
Speaker 1: all of us see and hear something different. I can't
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Speaker 1: hear you. My left ear is not as good as
10:51
Speaker 1: my right. My right ear is not as good as
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Speaker 1: my left. I don't know what in the world I
10:56
Speaker 1: should be listening to. I don't think I heard what
10:59
Speaker 1: I should have heard. I saw it differently. Did you
11:01
Speaker 1: see that? So all of that makes a difference. And
11:06
Speaker 1: actually what we're looking at. Do the jurors like him
11:09
Speaker 1: or do they hate him? That's really what we're talking about,
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Speaker 1: because the okay, well, I've got to talk to you
11:15
Speaker 1: about what I saw in the courtroom. But before I
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Speaker 1: get to the jurors and their reactions to this closing argument.
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Speaker 1: This is going to be in segments in many jurisdictions,
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Speaker 1: the state can make the first argument, then the defense
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Speaker 1: goes and then the state follows up attacking the defense,
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Speaker 1: and they get the last word. Fly because the state
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Speaker 1: has the burden of proof. I'm gonna get right to
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Speaker 1: what I saw happening in the jury box, but to you,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree joining me for pathologist, medical examiner, author,
11:45
Speaker 1: former detective, wrote the homicide Investigation Field Guide. Do I
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Speaker 1: need to tell you anything more about? Doctor dupre? Doctor Dupree,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut two. I want to
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Speaker 1: find out if you agree or disagree. He describe the
12:00
Speaker 1: kind of trauma you have observed in your career with
12:05
Speaker 1: the contact winds to the back of the head or
12:06
Speaker 1: any part of the head, and it's specifically to the
12:08
Speaker 1: face generally speaking, whether it be a shotgun or a
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Speaker 1: large caliber handgun. The result is similar. You feel as
12:16
Speaker 1: though the forehead and the facial features have went away.
12:20
Speaker 1: And that's a kind way to put it. They're actually there,
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Speaker 1: but they've been shredded, and the pathologists can actually put
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Speaker 1: those features back in place or the majority of it.
12:31
Speaker 1: But looking at it, it looks like from the teeth
12:35
Speaker 1: of the person went away. It's just a mess or
12:39
Speaker 1: the winds suffered to call the back of the head
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Speaker 1: consistent with a contact shot to the back, absolutely not
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Speaker 1: in my opinion, Crime stories with Nancy Grace Daryl Cohen,
13:06
Speaker 1: Do you remember Fred? To cars? May he rot in Hell?
13:13
Speaker 1: Fred Tokars was a practicing judge and my old jurisdiction,
13:16
Speaker 1: Inner City Atlanta. He was a practicing lawyer, defense lawyer,
13:21
Speaker 1: and he was a part time judge. A beautiful wife,
13:25
Speaker 1: remember the Ambruscoe family. Gorgeous girls, every one of them,
13:30
Speaker 1: one prettier than the next, smart, engaging, He married her.
13:35
Speaker 1: They had these beautiful little boys, and then to cars
13:40
Speaker 1: out dating strippers, using drugs on the side, the whole shebang.
13:45
Speaker 1: He hires two idiots to kill his wife. Wasn't her
13:50
Speaker 1: first name Sarah? Anyway? I was so so sick at
13:55
Speaker 1: the time when I heard this description, but it comes
13:58
Speaker 1: to mind right now. There were two pups. They get
14:02
Speaker 1: in the car with Sarah and the little boy is there,
14:08
Speaker 1: if not, both of them are in the car and
14:11
Speaker 1: they shoot Sarah in the head. The other idiot first says, man,
14:19
Speaker 1: that fed up my high, and then he said her
14:23
Speaker 1: head blew up like a pumpkin. Now when that happened,
14:29
Speaker 1: Daryl co and the Cheryl McCollum, I was a brand
14:32
Speaker 1: new prosecutor. The only thing I knew about murder was
14:35
Speaker 1: when my fiance they had been murdered. And when I
14:38
Speaker 1: heard blew up like a pumpkin, I thought, well, that's
14:41
Speaker 1: an awful thing to say. Why did they say that?
14:44
Speaker 1: How can you say that in front of a jury?
14:46
Speaker 1: You guys remember that, I remember quite well. Yep, it
14:53
Speaker 1: was Nancy. That is exactly what it would have been like,
15:02
Speaker 1: isn't it if Paul had been shot in the head
15:04
Speaker 1: with a shotgun? Nancy. I've been to so many crime
15:07
Speaker 1: scenes where there was a contact shotgun, one to the head,
15:10
Speaker 1: and we have literally had to scoop up the brain
15:14
Speaker 1: with a ladle and put it into a plastic baggy.
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Speaker 1: That is not what was described, mostly intact, doctor Dupree.
15:23
Speaker 1: Now see, even I a veteran prosecutor, I don't know
15:27
Speaker 1: how many dead bodies I've seen. I'm not proud of it,
15:29
Speaker 1: but even I just got put off by what you said.
15:33
Speaker 1: But the truth is that that's the truth. Okay, could
15:37
Speaker 1: you explain that to me? Go ahead? So the brain,
15:42
Speaker 1: normal brain is the consistency of say, a firm pudding.
15:46
Speaker 1: It's about two two and a half pounds. When the
15:49
Speaker 1: brain is shot with a shotgun blast, it is decimated
15:54
Speaker 1: it turns into almost fluid. There's just no way that
15:59
Speaker 1: this could have been a contact one to the head.
16:01
Speaker 1: It is so much more realistic that it was an
16:04
Speaker 1: angle shot and that the shot severed the brain stem
16:09
Speaker 1: near the back of the neck and therefore the brain
16:12
Speaker 1: basically popped out of the skull and landed where it
16:16
Speaker 1: did nearly intact. It doesn't make sense to be a
16:20
Speaker 1: contact one, you know, Daryl Cohen, did you hear the
16:23
Speaker 1: way she explained that. I understood it perfectly. But I'm
16:27
Speaker 1: thinking about doctor Rhemer, who was on the stand, as
16:30
Speaker 1: she is brilliant, She is just burning brilliant. But I
16:36
Speaker 1: think the defense got to her and she was became
16:40
Speaker 1: defensive and agitated as any normal person would have. And
16:45
Speaker 1: I hope the jury got the gist of what doctor
16:49
Speaker 1: Dupree just said. I mean, it's hard when you're on
16:52
Speaker 1: the stand and you're being attacked to articulate to regular
16:59
Speaker 1: people like us, very complicated medical issues like to preacher
17:04
Speaker 1: did well, Nancy, you've got to keep it simple, stupid kiss.
17:08
Speaker 1: That's my view, and we're not saying and Murdah is
17:12
Speaker 1: not saying that he killed him, and it came from
17:15
Speaker 1: a different way he's not saying that he saw it happen.
17:18
Speaker 1: They are throwing out a theory, whether it's good or mad,
17:21
Speaker 1: that it's how it could have happened. And he has
17:25
Speaker 1: not charged with being the murderer because people saw him
17:29
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, not once but twice. He's charged with
17:33
Speaker 1: it with circumstantial evidence. You and I used to talk
17:36
Speaker 1: about the snow argument. It didn't snow last night when
17:42
Speaker 1: I was awake. I woke up this morning and it
17:44
Speaker 1: was snow on the ground. Somehow it got there. That's
17:47
Speaker 1: really what the prostitution's got to or he used rain.
17:51
Speaker 1: I used to rain, but it doesn't change. You don't
17:55
Speaker 1: have to see the storm to know that it rained
17:59
Speaker 1: when I'm out of your office or your home. But guys,
18:02
Speaker 1: I haven't heard the prosecution do it yet. Kelly Skin
18:05
Speaker 1: is with me, Fox Nation's senior producer who he's been
18:09
Speaker 1: listening to all the evidence in the courtroom with me.
18:12
Speaker 1: He hasn't hit the evidence yet. Waters and all eyes
18:17
Speaker 1: are on Water. She started with motive, which to me
18:21
Speaker 1: is a single most troublesome fact in the case. Kelly, Yeah,
18:25
Speaker 1: we have heard Waters make this storm analogy from opening arguments,
18:29
Speaker 1: and we see it again in closing arguments, and as
18:32
Speaker 1: we just heard, you don't need to be outside to
18:34
Speaker 1: know it is raining, and that is what he is
18:36
Speaker 1: asking the prosecution to do. He says, you need to
18:39
Speaker 1: find means, motive, and opportunity here, and he is saying
18:43
Speaker 1: that the only person who possibly had all three of those,
18:46
Speaker 1: as well as evil and wicked intent is Alec Murdoch. Okay,
18:50
Speaker 1: let me go to you. Everybody jump in again. Do
18:53
Speaker 1: I have to keep reminding you this is not high
18:55
Speaker 1: Tea at Windsor Castle with King Charles. Jump in. I've
18:58
Speaker 1: got a little delay in my ear, but I'll try
19:01
Speaker 1: not to step on top of you. Cheryl McCollum. What
19:04
Speaker 1: it boils down to me is just like in Scott
19:06
Speaker 1: Peterson and don't believe some half baked entertainment show about
19:14
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson. I heard the trial, I heard the evidence
19:18
Speaker 1: with the jury, and I agree with the verdict. Scott
19:21
Speaker 1: Peterson placed himself at the scene of the disposal of
19:27
Speaker 1: Lacy's body on the day that her body was disposed,
19:31
Speaker 1: along with baby corn or her unborn child. Murdog is
19:36
Speaker 1: placing himself at the scene of the murders. Listen to
19:40
Speaker 1: this at eight forty nine, twenty seven. Wait, eight forty five,
19:45
Speaker 1: forty seven, so eight forty six, he's there in the video.
19:49
Speaker 1: He is in the video at eight forty six. At
19:54
Speaker 1: eight forty nine, Maggie reads her last text at eight
20:00
Speaker 1: forty nine. Eight seconds later, Paul stops responding to the
20:07
Speaker 1: chat and the phone calls. He was having back and
20:09
Speaker 1: forth with his friend Rogan Gibson Rogie about that dog
20:13
Speaker 1: that was Rogan's dog, and Paul was taking a video.
20:17
Speaker 1: He had the dog at his kennel and they were
20:20
Speaker 1: going to send that video to a lady veterinarian to
20:23
Speaker 1: look at his tail. Listen to this time again, everybody,
20:26
Speaker 1: eight forty six, he is there, Murdog is there. Eight
20:32
Speaker 1: forty nine. The murders have happened right then, So you
20:40
Speaker 1: want to tell me that in three minutes somebody he
20:44
Speaker 1: leaves and somebody else rushes over, grabs two murdog weapons,
20:49
Speaker 1: shoots them down and gets away. That's bs. Nancy is
20:52
Speaker 1: worse than that. That's all you've got to say, is
20:54
Speaker 1: right when you say he placed himself there, he lined
21:00
Speaker 1: did not place himself there. That Kyle, he took a
21:04
Speaker 1: video and that placed him there. So not only do
21:07
Speaker 1: we have only a three minute window we have the time.
21:12
Speaker 1: He absolutely lied about where he was was the most
21:16
Speaker 1: critical place. So you've got Alex saying I went anywhere
21:19
Speaker 1: near there, and it's not until that video comes out
21:22
Speaker 1: then Paul took that he's busted and he lied about
21:26
Speaker 1: the most and here finally in place and Nancy Cheryl,
21:31
Speaker 1: he also says, finally admitted on the stand that he
21:35
Speaker 1: was there because so many had went Yeah, that's him,
21:38
Speaker 1: that's him, that's him, that said he finally said it
21:41
Speaker 1: on the stand. He was at the kennel and it's
21:43
Speaker 1: at eight forty five forty seven, which is eight forty six.
21:47
Speaker 1: He's there, and the murders occur at eight forty nine.
21:50
Speaker 1: What doctor and Nancy. He also says that the dogs
21:54
Speaker 1: are not misbehaving, they are not acting like anyone else
21:57
Speaker 1: is there, but no nobody else is around? Well duh, exactly.
22:02
Speaker 1: You know, you're right. What killer would have made sure
22:06
Speaker 1: the dogs were back in their cages and everything was
22:08
Speaker 1: just fine, go ahead, Cheryl. The killer would have killed him.
22:11
Speaker 1: There's no way somebody is coming into that remote area
22:16
Speaker 1: in three minutes while he's there, fires seven shots. He
22:21
Speaker 1: don't know nothing about it. He don't see nobody. There's
22:24
Speaker 1: no other evidence of bookprint for tire tracks or foam things,
22:28
Speaker 1: nothing that every road. Lee, Guys, I'm looking down because
22:33
Speaker 1: I've got all my notes from the closing arguments. Let
22:37
Speaker 1: me tell you, Prosecutor Waters walked in. He walked out
22:41
Speaker 1: of the courtroom right before closing. I wonder what he
22:44
Speaker 1: did out there. Maybe he went to the bathroom, maybe
22:47
Speaker 1: he got some water, maybe he said a prayer down
22:49
Speaker 1: on his knees. But he came in and he was
22:52
Speaker 1: full of swagger. He walked right by everybody, went up
22:56
Speaker 1: there and started his argument and started at twelve thirteen
23:01
Speaker 1: point twenty five, day twenty seven, and he hit it,
23:07
Speaker 1: and he hit it hard. This is what is concerning me.
23:11
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back over the closings. But Daryl Cohen,
23:14
Speaker 1: you know how I always ask people what was the
23:17
Speaker 1: jury doing, and they always say, well, they were listening.
23:20
Speaker 1: That doesn't help me. That doesn't help me at all.
23:23
Speaker 1: So I got in a very precarious perch. I started
23:26
Speaker 1: looking at every jurar. I could listen to this, Daryl
23:29
Speaker 1: and Kelly skin listen to this, because you know the
23:32
Speaker 1: jurars just as well as I do from looking at them.
23:36
Speaker 1: There is a red headed lady on the front row
23:42
Speaker 1: that is nodding with the state almost imperceptibly. There is
23:48
Speaker 1: a short haired, brunette lady on the back row that
23:54
Speaker 1: doesn't take her eyes off the prosecutor Waters. There is
23:58
Speaker 1: a white male that has on glasses and a mask.
24:04
Speaker 1: He also never takes his eyes off Waters. I got
24:08
Speaker 1: one lady, though, the lady that always brings a blanket
24:12
Speaker 1: and pulls it up. She was doing everything but looking
24:15
Speaker 1: at Waters. She might glance at him, and then she
24:18
Speaker 1: should look off. She'd drink or drink. She spent most
24:21
Speaker 1: of her time looking out at the audience. You know
24:24
Speaker 1: I'm talking about back row. I do, Nancy, and I
24:29
Speaker 1: talked to I talked to a source very close to
24:32
Speaker 1: the prosecution this morning about that same juror's body language
24:36
Speaker 1: and asked him what he thought about this juror quite
24:39
Speaker 1: literally covering her face with a blanket. And what he
24:42
Speaker 1: told me is, I am not going to speculate on
24:44
Speaker 1: where any juror is at this moment in the trial,
24:46
Speaker 1: because one day you think they're for you, the next
24:49
Speaker 1: day you think they're against you, and everyone who is
24:51
Speaker 1: watching this trial right now is analyzing our body language
24:54
Speaker 1: the prosecule as in the prosecution's body language every step
24:58
Speaker 1: of the way as well. See, Nancy, I'm not as
25:02
Speaker 1: concerned with that did not help me, Kelly. Well, hold,
25:07
Speaker 1: you're worried about the jerry. Let me tell you who's
25:09
Speaker 1: going to be a problem. There's a guy on the
25:12
Speaker 1: back row, a white male. There's two of them back
25:16
Speaker 1: there that are wearing I call them lumberjack shirt they're
25:20
Speaker 1: plaid shirts. Now, there's one guy all the way by
25:24
Speaker 1: the wall under the flag. He never looks away from
25:28
Speaker 1: the prosecution while they're talking. The other guy in a
25:32
Speaker 1: lumberjack shirt, it's a red lumberjack shirt, will barely look
25:38
Speaker 1: at the prosecution at all. That is not a good sign, Daryl.
25:43
Speaker 1: While you're spilling your guts in front of the jury
25:46
Speaker 1: and they're like looking off up at their ceiling, countying
25:51
Speaker 1: the squares and the ceiling. That's not good, Daryl. Nancy.
25:55
Speaker 1: This case has gone on and on and on, and
25:59
Speaker 1: we have to realize a swindler does not a murderer,
26:02
Speaker 1: make so, as a result of that, the prosecution has
26:07
Speaker 1: got to hit it, and hit it hard and get
26:09
Speaker 1: to the jurars mentally and physically, and looking at their
26:13
Speaker 1: facial expressions, watching their body language throughout the trial means everything.
26:19
Speaker 1: And I am fearful for the prosecution that they have
26:23
Speaker 1: spent so much time with this banter back and forth
26:29
Speaker 1: that the jury has gotten bored, and when they get bored,
26:32
Speaker 1: they close their minds and they're just there. It's just
26:35
Speaker 1: physically there, not mentally, and that's not a good sign.
26:39
Speaker 1: He needs to hit that timeline and hit it hard. Guys.
26:43
Speaker 1: Take a listen. Now, we have just come out of
26:45
Speaker 1: the courtroom closing arguments. We expect the case to go
26:50
Speaker 1: to the jury today. If for once, for Pete's sake,
26:53
Speaker 1: they can let this jury work late, we might get
26:56
Speaker 1: a verdict for Pete's sake. Guys, take a listen to
26:59
Speaker 1: our cut five as Prosecutor Waters launches his closing argument.
27:05
Speaker 1: On June seventh, twenty twenty one, at the Mozille property
27:09
Speaker 1: in Corleton County, Maggie Murdock and Paul Murdock were brutally
27:15
Speaker 1: and maliciously murdered at the kennels by Alec Murdoch. Paul,
27:21
Speaker 1: as you know, suffered two shotgun blasts. Maggie suffered five
27:27
Speaker 1: blackout rifle wounds, and after an exhaustive investigation, there is
27:35
Speaker 1: only one person who had the motive, who had the means,
27:42
Speaker 1: who had the opportunity to commit these crimes, and also
27:49
Speaker 1: whose guilty conduct after these crimes. The tracy. The defendant
27:53
Speaker 1: is the person on which a storm was descending, where
27:56
Speaker 1: his own storm would actually mean consequences for Maggie and
27:59
Speaker 1: Paul Off and consequences for those who trusted him. And
28:04
Speaker 1: that person is the defendant. You know. I like the
28:09
Speaker 1: way he talked about one person that had guilty conduct
28:13
Speaker 1: after the shootings, who lied, who tried to hide evidence,
28:17
Speaker 1: nobody but Burdog Hey, I'm hearing him, my ear, Christine,
28:22
Speaker 1: There you go. She is showing video from the Mozelle
28:28
Speaker 1: jury visit. Trust me, I did not even risk hanking
28:35
Speaker 1: it jinxing it by showing up and spying on the jury.
28:40
Speaker 1: But I can't say that somebody else didn't. Here is
28:45
Speaker 1: the video of them at the crime scene this morning,
28:48
Speaker 1: not the jurars themselves, but what they were seeing. And
28:53
Speaker 1: it opens up into the home. I'm not sure what
28:59
Speaker 1: they're seeing right there, but they're they're going out. You know.
29:04
Speaker 1: That looks a lot like I'll meet it to me
29:08
Speaker 1: where the mom lived that said, we're told this is
29:14
Speaker 1: video from the scene this morning. Now I would expect
29:17
Speaker 1: them to be going out to the kennel again. To you,
29:22
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, that could have made all the difference that
29:27
Speaker 1: visit to the hunting lots today. It's going to either
29:31
Speaker 1: crystallize in the jars minds what the arguments have been,
29:34
Speaker 1: what the testimony has been, what the evidence has been,
29:38
Speaker 1: or it's going to confuse them. I think by going
29:41
Speaker 1: out there and helped crystallize a lot of what they
29:44
Speaker 1: were hearing and made it real It took a story
29:47
Speaker 1: and turned it into me as each every and each
29:51
Speaker 1: and every individual Jar, making me part of this story
29:55
Speaker 1: and bringing me in. So I think it was a
29:57
Speaker 1: great idea for them to go out there. I realized
30:00
Speaker 1: the prosecution was against it, but I think the more
30:03
Speaker 1: jurars can feel and see what has happened, the more
30:07
Speaker 1: likely they are to render a verdict that will be
30:10
Speaker 1: an accordance act. Now, wait a minute, that looks like
30:13
Speaker 1: the drive. That looks like the long int I'm looking
30:17
Speaker 1: off at a video was showing you. That looks like
30:19
Speaker 1: the long Drive entrance to Mozelle, and it's pretty amazing.
30:26
Speaker 1: Robert Chris beIN this Judge Newman had it timed almost
30:31
Speaker 1: to the minute. He said, we will be back by eleven,
30:35
Speaker 1: and it's a twenty five minute drive from the courthouse
30:38
Speaker 1: at least. And he was right. I was sitting right
30:42
Speaker 1: here and I heard the crowd behind this cheering, and
30:45
Speaker 1: I turned around. It was a group of the lawyers.
30:47
Speaker 1: I don't know which side we're walking in yet. Now
30:49
Speaker 1: that's looking more like Mozelle. From an aerial view, and
30:53
Speaker 1: you can see off to the side, you see cars.
30:56
Speaker 1: Part trying to protect the jurars from anyone coming out
31:00
Speaker 1: there and causing a disturbance that could ruin the trial
31:06
Speaker 1: and make it end and a mistrial. Every step of
31:10
Speaker 1: the way. See there's somebody driving in front of them.
31:12
Speaker 1: There's going to be people driving behind them to protect
31:16
Speaker 1: the jury. And hey, I think it may have worked,
31:20
Speaker 1: But in my mind it was a big risk to
31:22
Speaker 1: take because Robert Crispin, scenes change when you go back.
31:28
Speaker 1: The trees may have grown, the bushes may no longer
31:31
Speaker 1: be there, or there may be more there could have
31:34
Speaker 1: somebody else owns it. Now, what if they've changed the
31:36
Speaker 1: kennel in some way structurally, and it's not the same
31:40
Speaker 1: as it was the night of the murders. Yeah. Hey,
31:42
Speaker 1: I mean that's definitely a chance that they took today.
31:45
Speaker 1: And the judge has been spot on this entire trial.
31:48
Speaker 1: I like this guy, but I think what this did today,
31:51
Speaker 1: although a lot of us didn't want it to happen,
31:53
Speaker 1: I think this finally gave the jury an opportunity to
31:56
Speaker 1: flush out their headgear because they've been sitting in those
31:59
Speaker 1: chairs for twenty seven days listening to all this. And
32:02
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest with you, going back, Crispin, hold on,
32:06
Speaker 1: hold on, Crispin, we're saying right now that absolutely is
32:10
Speaker 1: the kennel, That absolutely is where the murders went down.
32:16
Speaker 1: That's definitely it. Wow, Christaine, thank you for getting that
32:19
Speaker 1: video for us. Okay, go ahead, plays Crispin. No. I
32:23
Speaker 1: was just trying to say, it gives them an opportunity
32:24
Speaker 1: to flush out their head gear because they've been sitting
32:27
Speaker 1: there for twenty seven days. And when you listen to
32:29
Speaker 1: Murdoch's testimony, my god, I was confused because this is
32:34
Speaker 1: a lawyer who's repeating questions and just extending out his testimony.
32:41
Speaker 1: What I feel was a great opportunity to confuse the jury.
32:45
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very well educated lawyer. This
32:49
Speaker 1: is you talk about a perfect storm. I'll tell you
32:51
Speaker 1: what the perfect storm is, Nancy. The perfect storms want
32:54
Speaker 1: a con artist and a lawyer crash into each other.
32:58
Speaker 1: And that's what you have here. He knew exactly what
33:01
Speaker 1: he was doing. How many other witnesses repeated the question
33:05
Speaker 1: every single type or almost every single tipe. I mean
33:09
Speaker 1: I sat back and I'm like, I'm starting to get confused,
33:12
Speaker 1: and I think that's very intentional. Obviously he knows what
33:15
Speaker 1: he's doing, and he's got to because he's got to
33:18
Speaker 1: attack the government because the facts are against him. Okay,
33:22
Speaker 1: that is of Moselle and that is the kennel. Go ahead, Cheryl.
33:26
Speaker 1: It is imperative that they went out there today. You
33:29
Speaker 1: and I preach all the time. You've got to walk
33:32
Speaker 1: that scene in order to understand it. For twenty seven days,
33:35
Speaker 1: they've seen two dimensional pictures. They've got to go out there.
33:40
Speaker 1: Excuse me. So, even if the freeze are fallen and
33:44
Speaker 1: the brushes overgrown, what has not changed about that is
33:48
Speaker 1: the layout in where it is located, as far out
33:52
Speaker 1: as it is they're going to understand and somebody that
33:55
Speaker 1: would have to bribe that long road, take that long
33:58
Speaker 1: driveway unseen, But Paul or everybody else, nobody's gonna buy it.
34:04
Speaker 1: This was too isolated, too far away, too secluded. This
34:09
Speaker 1: was a one person job. And they're going to be
34:11
Speaker 1: able to see that because now they understand it in
34:13
Speaker 1: a way they could not yesterday. Well, I'm you mentioned
34:18
Speaker 1: that long driveway of the getting in and out. What
34:23
Speaker 1: go ahead, doctor duffree. So I think it's also very
34:26
Speaker 1: important for the jury to actually see and imagine how
34:30
Speaker 1: far or the distance between the two bodies and how
34:33
Speaker 1: realistic it would be that someone could actually shoot both
34:37
Speaker 1: of them. We know with two different guns it's not
34:40
Speaker 1: an impossibility. Guys, I want to hear more of what
34:43
Speaker 1: we just heard in the courtroom. Hey, who is that?
34:45
Speaker 1: Go ahead? And this is Kelly. I was just gonna
34:47
Speaker 1: say I was out there at Moselle this morning when
34:49
Speaker 1: the jury visited, and we were expecting that road to
34:52
Speaker 1: be blocked off and no media allowed, and that is
34:55
Speaker 1: not the case at all. I was able to drive
34:57
Speaker 1: the road as I've done many many times before, and
35:00
Speaker 1: we know that the jury was on the property for
35:01
Speaker 1: about twenty to thirty minutes, and specifically, one juror was
35:05
Speaker 1: looking up at that door frame of the feed room
35:07
Speaker 1: where we've heard that there is damage from those pellets
35:10
Speaker 1: from the upward trajectory of the shot that Paul was
35:13
Speaker 1: shot with, as the prosecution alleges. But we also know
35:16
Speaker 1: that they weren't allowed to ask questions. So my question
35:19
Speaker 1: is do they know at this point where Maggie was
35:21
Speaker 1: found versus where Paul was found because they weren't allowed
35:23
Speaker 1: to ask questions? So do they know the difference between
35:26
Speaker 1: the feed room and the kennels and the overhang where
35:29
Speaker 1: Maggie was near or are they just as confused as
35:32
Speaker 1: a lot of people watching this. I don't see how
35:35
Speaker 1: they can be more confused after visiting the scene than
35:39
Speaker 1: less confused. Guys, I want you to hear more of
35:43
Speaker 1: waters opening closing, and what I mean by that is
35:48
Speaker 1: very often you will see the state and give the
35:50
Speaker 1: initial closing statement, then the defense will go, and then
35:54
Speaker 1: the state will finish up. Take a listen to our
35:57
Speaker 1: cut six. The evidence that you've heard the defendant became
36:01
Speaker 1: so addicted and so dependent on a velocity of money
36:04
Speaker 1: that the millions of dollars in legal fees that he
36:06
Speaker 1: was receiving was not enough, and so we started to steal.
36:11
Speaker 1: When he's earning millions of dollars and stealing millions of dollars,
36:14
Speaker 1: he's also borrowing millions of dollars from wherever he can,
36:18
Speaker 1: the bank, his law partners, his father, and it still
36:24
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. And this slow burn was continuing and continuing
36:29
Speaker 1: until the boat crash happened in February or twenty nineteen,
36:34
Speaker 1: and that changed everything. That set in motion things that
36:39
Speaker 1: were going to happen because of the criminal charges related
36:44
Speaker 1: to that case as well as the civil charging delated
36:47
Speaker 1: to that case. And in the aftermath of the boat case,
36:51
Speaker 1: things changed. The pace of his stealing increased. In fact,
36:55
Speaker 1: that's when he stole the money from Tony Satterfield that
36:58
Speaker 1: you heard from, ultimately stole about four point five million
37:03
Speaker 1: between the stader Fields and others. For you've heard where
37:06
Speaker 1: his finances were at on June seventh, twenty twenty one,
37:10
Speaker 1: and you saw what happened in the way of that.
37:13
Speaker 1: And on June seventh, twenty twenty one, because all these
37:15
Speaker 1: pressures were mounting, the defendant killed Maggie and Paul. You know,
37:22
Speaker 1: he's really making a point Kelly's skin to tie this
37:26
Speaker 1: into the boat crash, because the boat crash was the
37:30
Speaker 1: case was supposed to have a hearing that week. I
37:32
Speaker 1: believe it was the tenth, and then Paul was murdered
37:37
Speaker 1: on the seventh, and suddenly the boat crash lawsuits seemed
37:41
Speaker 1: to go away, and the lawyer for that case, Tinsley,
37:45
Speaker 1: actually said, well, yeah, it's not as good of a
37:47
Speaker 1: case anymore. We don't have a defendant. Paul's dead. The
37:52
Speaker 1: Murdloch family has all this sympathy, and sure enough that
37:57
Speaker 1: case settled for a lot less money, money that was expected,
38:02
Speaker 1: just like Mardoch thought, yeah, we've heard from the prosecution
38:06
Speaker 1: and closing arguments that Alec Murdoch was on this hamster
38:09
Speaker 1: wheel of just trying to keep up with begging for money,
38:12
Speaker 1: borrowing money, stealing it allegedly, and hoping that this truth
38:16
Speaker 1: would not be exposed. That was until the boat crash,
38:18
Speaker 1: when Mark Tinsley was going to make a motion to
38:20
Speaker 1: compel and Alec Murdoch would have to show how much
38:24
Speaker 1: money he had. Alec Murdoch and his attorneys claimed he
38:27
Speaker 1: was broke. Tinsley didn't believe it and was going to
38:29
Speaker 1: file this paperwork for Alec Murdoch to show what money
38:33
Speaker 1: he had. And the prosecution is alleging that that is
38:37
Speaker 1: the pivotal moment in which Alec Murdoch made allegedly to
38:40
Speaker 1: the decision to kill Maggie and Paul two distract from
38:44
Speaker 1: this boat crash lawsuit because he knew, allegedly that Mark
38:48
Speaker 1: Tinsley would drop it and settle for a lot less,
38:50
Speaker 1: which is exactly what we saw happen, which is exactly
38:53
Speaker 1: what happened, and the way Waters described enclosing argument, Darryl,
38:59
Speaker 1: you would have of this described how after the boat crash,
39:03
Speaker 1: people were not three inches up Alex Murdoch's tailpipe about
39:08
Speaker 1: the missing millions. They were overcome with sympathy. Everyone was
39:13
Speaker 1: reaching out, how can we help you. It was almost
39:16
Speaker 1: as if the thefts had never happened. It got dropped
39:19
Speaker 1: like a hot potato after the murders of Paul and Maggie.
39:24
Speaker 1: It did. But what it also did is it you mentioned,
39:28
Speaker 1: it took away from we're going after him because he
39:32
Speaker 1: has stolen all of this money. But it also is not,
39:36
Speaker 1: in my view, a good motive to kill his son
39:39
Speaker 1: and his wife. I think that is the weak point
39:42
Speaker 1: in the case. The other weak point is when the
39:45
Speaker 1: prosecutor allowed Murdoch to continue to repartee with him back
39:50
Speaker 1: and forth. I would have been much more to the point,
39:54
Speaker 1: ask a question and see if we can get him
39:57
Speaker 1: off the stand, because Murdoch was so good at least
40:00
Speaker 1: it appeared to be good, making a point cosying up
40:05
Speaker 1: to the jury. And that's why one of the people
40:08
Speaker 1: who have seen the jars, the woman looking out the
40:12
Speaker 1: other people looking at them. That makes all the difference
40:15
Speaker 1: to see who is who is not resonating with the jury.
40:20
Speaker 1: Because ultimately, Nancy, if the jury likes Murdoch, he is acquitted.
40:25
Speaker 1: If they don't like him, he is convicted. That's simple,
40:29
Speaker 1: and they'll find a way to justify their verdict. Right
40:33
Speaker 1: before we came out at the lunch break, Christine, I
40:37
Speaker 1: want to play our cut eleven because we heard Murdog
40:42
Speaker 1: referring repeatedly to Paul is now to see his son
40:46
Speaker 1: as they quote little detective, because he blamed Paul for
40:51
Speaker 1: finding his drug stash. And from that point forward, Paul
40:56
Speaker 1: and Maggie were quote watching him like a hawk, and
41:01
Speaker 1: he was descending into with drawals. Take a listen to
41:05
Speaker 1: our cut eleven. We know in May that Paul sends
41:09
Speaker 1: a texture him saying, mom found some pills. We need
41:11
Speaker 1: to talk. Another pressure from Paul and Maggie on him.
41:17
Speaker 1: And if you look at the texts the weekend of
41:21
Speaker 1: the ball game on June seventh, alc is night of
41:24
Speaker 1: the game and he's texting back and forth and Maggie's like,
41:28
Speaker 1: don't come if you feel bad, and he's like, well,
41:32
Speaker 1: you know, I think I can get a late check out.
41:34
Speaker 1: And then he's like, at one o'clock they made me leave,
41:35
Speaker 1: which a reason one inference. They were on him at
41:37
Speaker 1: this time. They were watching him like a hawk. Ope.
41:40
Speaker 1: It's the most powerful of withdrawals. And everything's come into
41:46
Speaker 1: a head, including this run out of money, running out
41:48
Speaker 1: of options, doesn't get paid an he's never going to
41:50
Speaker 1: wait until December, already stole the fairest feeds and spent
41:53
Speaker 1: that money in two months, has an expensive pill habit,
41:56
Speaker 1: and accountability and consequences will do undo everything in his life,
42:01
Speaker 1: everything that is his self, identity, everything, the only things
42:06
Speaker 1: that he cares about he doesn't care about lying to
42:14
Speaker 1: his partners and his family and his friends and his clients.
42:21
Speaker 1: If it will delay accountability for him, he'll do it
42:25
Speaker 1: in a heartbeat, and all of that it's about to
42:30
Speaker 1: be undone. Can you imagine your wife and your son
42:34
Speaker 1: watching you like a hawk, trying to keep you away
42:36
Speaker 1: from your opioids when you have a twenty year, fifty
42:41
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a week addiction. He himself says that withdrawals
42:47
Speaker 1: are awful, that you will do anything to make them
42:50
Speaker 1: go away. What was he willing to do to make
42:55
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul go away so he could get back
42:59
Speaker 1: in the bottle. The bottle of opioid peels guys when
43:05
Speaker 1: things are starting to die down and attention is focusing
43:09
Speaker 1: on him. According to the prosecution, this is what happens.
43:14
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut seven. His buddy Chris
43:18
Speaker 1: Wilson comes and sees him on September fourth and confronts
43:22
Speaker 1: him about what he's been doing, and then within two
43:25
Speaker 1: hours the side of the road happens. When accountability was
43:29
Speaker 1: at his door, he was a vegam again, and he
43:33
Speaker 1: told a extremely detailed by and went so far as
43:38
Speaker 1: to draw a competence composite sketch with the police of
43:44
Speaker 1: this assailant. The accountability that had rideds gorsed up again.
43:49
Speaker 1: He tried again try to get it to go away,
43:51
Speaker 1: and it worked for a little while, but this time
43:53
Speaker 1: it fell apart a little quicker because his own brother
43:57
Speaker 1: figured out that he was trying to buy drug. He
44:00
Speaker 1: is a different man than the kind of stories that
44:04
Speaker 1: we've seen before, when you have a middle aged man
44:07
Speaker 1: who's outwardly successful, who has a strong family legacy, prominence
44:12
Speaker 1: in the community, but is living a lie. Crime stories
44:30
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, okay Kelly's skin. I think that everything
44:36
Speaker 1: the prosecution has said so far is correct, and I
44:39
Speaker 1: think he said it well. I also think he needs
44:43
Speaker 1: to start doubling down on the night of the crime
44:46
Speaker 1: and the evidence proving the murder and get off motive.
44:50
Speaker 1: We have heard more times throughout that night than I
44:54
Speaker 1: can count, whether it's eight forty four or seven forty six,
44:58
Speaker 1: and really it's like the journey needs a pre to
45:00
Speaker 1: get the times of that night right. But something he
45:03
Speaker 1: also said about opioids, as I'll let you decide the
45:05
Speaker 1: jury if he really could take a thousand milligrams of
45:08
Speaker 1: opioids a day, but even if he was being intoxicated
45:12
Speaker 1: is not an excuse for murder at all. However, I
45:15
Speaker 1: agree with you completely that they are going to have
45:17
Speaker 1: to put a bow on this to really nail down
45:20
Speaker 1: and solidify that timeline of what happened that night. Because
45:23
Speaker 1: the jury's not allowed to take notes, they can't read articles.
45:26
Speaker 1: Will they remember the times that the prosecution has been
45:29
Speaker 1: talking about for six weeks now? Or is Creighton Waters
45:32
Speaker 1: going to really wrap this up with a bow for
45:35
Speaker 1: them so they can really comprehend the exact moments that
45:38
Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie died. And it really hit home when
45:40
Speaker 1: he was describing. They even had a graphic of a
45:43
Speaker 1: hamster on a wheel. It was a drawing. Take a
45:46
Speaker 1: listen to our cut nine, the way that Waters is
45:50
Speaker 1: describing murdog for now twenty years addicted to opioids, begging, borrowing, lying, stealing,
46:01
Speaker 1: doing anything to get that next high and just keep
46:06
Speaker 1: it going. Take a listen to cut nine. It's the
46:09
Speaker 1: main thing he did in the wake of the merger
46:12
Speaker 1: of his wife and sun was he made sure to
46:14
Speaker 1: say again, one stephead of the game because he had
46:16
Speaker 1: more time now. He had time he didn't have on
46:20
Speaker 1: June seventh, but he had it now, and that's the
46:23
Speaker 1: first thing he did. The first thing he did, it's
46:27
Speaker 1: the main thing he did, was keep the hamster will going.
46:35
Speaker 1: I know it seems like a lot that you have
46:37
Speaker 1: to consider the unique circumstances of this particular man, this
46:44
Speaker 1: particular man who has proven over and over again that
46:49
Speaker 1: he will do anything to keep that hamster will going
46:52
Speaker 1: and to avoid accountability. And he's been doing it forever
46:55
Speaker 1: ten years. He just finally reached a point that he
47:01
Speaker 1: could never reach it and he hammers it home. Listen
47:04
Speaker 1: to cut eight. I want you to hear it the
47:06
Speaker 1: way we heard it in the courtroom right behind us.
47:08
Speaker 1: Take a listen. That's a situation. I think it's akin
47:13
Speaker 1: to a pomes and a poss kind of like a
47:18
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme where it depends on new money coming in
47:22
Speaker 1: to pay old investors. And it works. It'll work for
47:25
Speaker 1: a long time as long as you can keep that
47:27
Speaker 1: money coming in. But the second you can't, the second
47:30
Speaker 1: that you're out of options, it crashes and burns. That's
47:32
Speaker 1: how every palms crashes and burns. And that's the situation. Fundamentally,
47:36
Speaker 1: his finances were like and that's the situation that was
47:38
Speaker 1: arriving in June of twenty twenty one, when he was
47:45
Speaker 1: at the scene with the victims minutes before they died,
47:52
Speaker 1: and lie to everyone. He would listen about a gathering storm,
47:58
Speaker 1: the boat case, other factors that were arising, each one
48:04
Speaker 1: leading to that inevitable day of reckoning. He had the
48:08
Speaker 1: trial lawyer's conference where he was confronted Mark Tinsley was
48:15
Speaker 1: confronted by Alec Elec of course denied it. Everybody's lying
48:18
Speaker 1: on Alec Alex telling you the truth even though everyone
48:21
Speaker 1: who knew him had no idea who he was. Everyone
48:25
Speaker 1: no one knew movie really was. The people who came
48:29
Speaker 1: in here and said we thought this about him, not
48:31
Speaker 1: a single person who he really was. That's how convincing
48:35
Speaker 1: he is. You know, all that is true. But the
48:37
Speaker 1: one thing that sticks out in my mind right there,
48:40
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, is that he is at the scene of
48:43
Speaker 1: the murders minutes before we know the murders occurred. And
48:48
Speaker 1: according to my calculation, it's not even minutes, it's about
48:53
Speaker 1: one and a half minute before the murders occurred. Nancy.
48:57
Speaker 1: There's no way for him to get around that, there's
49:00
Speaker 1: no way for him to avoid that. He is where
49:03
Speaker 1: it happened. Whether he says he did it or didn't
49:06
Speaker 1: do it, he is right there and that is something
49:09
Speaker 1: that he is not able to get over, not able
49:13
Speaker 1: to explain away, not able to use his gift of
49:16
Speaker 1: gap to say I was there. But it just doesn't fly.
49:22
Speaker 1: This doesn't fly. You know what I think? I hear you, Cheryl,
49:27
Speaker 1: go ahead. The jury is gonna under will lie and
49:35
Speaker 1: then he will invoke a gun when he needs to
49:38
Speaker 1: to fake suicide, which incidentally was asto, which is what
49:43
Speaker 1: happened to Paula Maggie. He could have had himself shot
49:45
Speaker 1: anywhere on his body that he chose that area, and
49:48
Speaker 1: then he will deflect attention away from the truth by
49:53
Speaker 1: garnishing that sympathy to stop any more investigation. That's what
49:57
Speaker 1: he did over and over here. That's his play. To you,
50:00
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, from your point of view as a pathologist,
50:06
Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, what is the main fact that
50:11
Speaker 1: you would hammer home to the jury right now? I
50:14
Speaker 1: would hammer home exactly what you've been talking about, Nancy,
50:17
Speaker 1: that timeline and that specific three minutes where I mean,
50:21
Speaker 1: it probably takes almost that long just to drive down
50:24
Speaker 1: the driveway he's been there, he is there during that time.
50:28
Speaker 1: I would hammer that home so strongly. Oh, I like
50:31
Speaker 1: what you just said, because it fits perfectly. The jury
50:34
Speaker 1: has just come from Mozelle in the last two hours.
50:36
Speaker 1: It took that long just to drive down that long driveway. Hey, Christine,
50:41
Speaker 1: do we have that aerial shot of Moselle. There's this
50:44
Speaker 1: and we saw it on the jury viewing a huge
50:48
Speaker 1: long driveway that is bordered with beautiful pine trees. There
50:55
Speaker 1: you go, yes, yes, that's it. It's a really long drive.
51:01
Speaker 1: It would have taken him that long, as doctor Duprees
51:04
Speaker 1: just said, to get down the driveway. That it's just
51:08
Speaker 1: I think that's what they need to be hitting. Robert Crispin,
51:12
Speaker 1: veteran law enforcement now private investigator. If you had to
51:16
Speaker 1: hit the jury with one fact, what would it be, Oh,
51:19
Speaker 1: the video and the electronic evidence and the fact that
51:22
Speaker 1: the jury was just down there and now we're coming
51:24
Speaker 1: back from lunch and he's going to go in there
51:26
Speaker 1: and he's gonna slam that timeline in there right now,
51:29
Speaker 1: and they're gonna go wow. Yeah, I was just out there. Yeah,
51:33
Speaker 1: that does kind of fit. Yeah, I was on the property.
51:35
Speaker 1: Because it's completely different when you see it in real person,
51:39
Speaker 1: and in real time you feel it, you smell it,
51:42
Speaker 1: you see it. It's a completely different story. Yeah, it
51:45
Speaker 1: was a big gamble to take him out there, I agree.
51:47
Speaker 1: But when he comes in buckle off too, you, Kelly skin,
51:52
Speaker 1: what do you believe is going to happen next in
51:54
Speaker 1: that courtroom? I know the state's not through with closings.
51:57
Speaker 1: I never liked it when any closing statement or opening
52:03
Speaker 1: statement had to be interrupted by a lunch break or
52:08
Speaker 1: really for any reason. Hold on, let me go to you,
52:10
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. You're the Venoman trial lawyer. It's never good
52:15
Speaker 1: to have your argument broken up, or even an important
52:19
Speaker 1: witness to have suddenly a recess in the middle of that.
52:23
Speaker 1: That's never a good thing. I'm not sure why, but
52:25
Speaker 1: I know it to be true, Daryl Nancy. It doesn't
52:27
Speaker 1: bother me if I am questioning a witness or if
52:31
Speaker 1: I'm arguing, and when we start back again, I am
52:34
Speaker 1: back in front of that jury, because what I'm trying
52:36
Speaker 1: to do is curry favor with a jury. I'm trying
52:39
Speaker 1: to cuddle up to that jury, and I want each
52:41
Speaker 1: and every one of those jurars to like me. And
52:44
Speaker 1: hate the defendant. And if they like me, they're more
52:47
Speaker 1: likely to hate the defendant. They'll ignore my problems, they'll
52:51
Speaker 1: ignore my little this, my little of that, but they
52:53
Speaker 1: will focus in on that. Jury will focus in on
52:57
Speaker 1: what that defendant did and what he likely So it
53:00
Speaker 1: doesn't really bother me. It does bother me if there
53:04
Speaker 1: is a time when the jury goes out and then
53:08
Speaker 1: the next morning I have to come back, or the
53:11
Speaker 1: next morning the defense comes back, that does bother me.
53:15
Speaker 1: But just a little bit of a break as long
53:17
Speaker 1: as the continuity is there. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry
53:21
Speaker 1: we broke for lunch, but it was very important for
53:23
Speaker 1: you to remember as we broke for lunch exactly what
53:27
Speaker 1: the argument was based upon, what the evidence was or
53:31
Speaker 1: the lack of evidence. You know. Even there at the
53:35
Speaker 1: end of his first closing argument, Waters was pounding on
53:41
Speaker 1: Murdog lying as he should and Murdog hiding behind his
53:47
Speaker 1: opioid addiction. Take a listen to our cut ten common sense.
53:52
Speaker 1: A thousand milegrams a day? Does that sound survivable? And
53:55
Speaker 1: if it was, because you could still engage in work,
53:59
Speaker 1: have a success practice, and then on top of that,
54:02
Speaker 1: engaging in these complex conspiracies to steal and full everyone
54:07
Speaker 1: and live a life, and how people outwardly think that
54:09
Speaker 1: you're you know who you professed to be in public.
54:13
Speaker 1: I have no doubt for he was taking opiate pills,
54:16
Speaker 1: and I would submit to you to decide whether or
54:19
Speaker 1: not he looked you in the eye and claim about
54:24
Speaker 1: its inconsistent with whatever else we know about this man.
54:27
Speaker 1: It's really inconsistent with survivability. He can never function at
54:30
Speaker 1: the level he's been functioning, keeping up with these pressure,
54:33
Speaker 1: staying one step ahead for over a decade. If he
54:36
Speaker 1: was taking that much dope, I would submit to you
54:38
Speaker 1: as a lie that he's trying to get you to
54:41
Speaker 1: believe to feel sympathetic for him, you know. Kelly skin Foxation,
54:47
Speaker 1: Senior producer in the courtroom, Kelly, I think now is
54:51
Speaker 1: the time to bring it home that he is so
54:54
Speaker 1: out of his mind on opioids the night of the murders, Kelly,
55:01
Speaker 1: and he himself says it makes him feel paranoid, agitated, upset.
55:08
Speaker 1: He's out there that night and here are the two
55:10
Speaker 1: people trying to take his drugs away, the people watching
55:14
Speaker 1: him like a hawk. It all fits together. It just
55:19
Speaker 1: sits together. Kelly. Yeah, and as the prosecution has said,
55:22
Speaker 1: only the killer would know to lie about those critical
55:26
Speaker 1: moments when the murders happened, and the prosecution says that
55:29
Speaker 1: person is Alec Murdoch, and Alec Murdoch did lie. So
55:32
Speaker 1: I think when we go back into the courtroom, we
55:34
Speaker 1: can expect Craton Waters to give it a little recap
55:37
Speaker 1: of what happened before the lunch break, maybe another rain analogy.
55:40
Speaker 1: You don't need to be outside to know that it's raining.
55:42
Speaker 1: You can hear the rain drops on your roof and
55:44
Speaker 1: know exactly what happened. I think he's gonna bring this
55:47
Speaker 1: timeline full circle. And when we hear from the defense,
55:50
Speaker 1: you know that they're going to double down on the
55:51
Speaker 1: double shooter theory, the short shooter theory, and the fact
55:54
Speaker 1: that Alec Murdoch loved his wife and his son and
55:57
Speaker 1: could have never done that. You know another thing, I'm
56:00
Speaker 1: pretty sure that the jury stays in the courthouse for lunch,
56:05
Speaker 1: and I hope they do. I somehow wandered into the
56:11
Speaker 1: secret batcave getaway on the other side of the courthouse.
56:14
Speaker 1: There is a wrought iron fence around it that a
56:18
Speaker 1: sheriff has to come and let you out. So if
56:21
Speaker 1: you go back to the courthouse and from the front
56:23
Speaker 1: of the courthouse, it's on the right, that's where the
56:25
Speaker 1: judge and I guess I'm not sure, but probably the
56:28
Speaker 1: jail transport comes that way because it's encased in a
56:35
Speaker 1: secured fence. Well, I got out there, I sure if
56:39
Speaker 1: I had to let me out by the way, I
56:41
Speaker 1: don't think that they would risk that at this juncture.
56:44
Speaker 1: And I also distinctly smelled lasagna and I saw a
56:48
Speaker 1: sheriff of rushing by a bella with a plate of
56:51
Speaker 1: lasagna on its plate. Because I want them back on
56:55
Speaker 1: time to get ready, and you know how people doze
56:59
Speaker 1: off after they have lunch. I guarantee you that Judge
57:03
Speaker 1: is going to have the courtroom sub zero to keep
57:07
Speaker 1: the gerards awake. Kelly, Yeah, And we've heard Judge Newmans
57:11
Speaker 1: ask the jury before too, what time is lunch delivered?
57:13
Speaker 1: So I think it's way too risky to let the
57:15
Speaker 1: jury out during lunchtime. There is a sea of media
57:18
Speaker 1: out here as well as there's not that many places
57:21
Speaker 1: to eat in Walterborough, South Carolina, so you can be
57:24
Speaker 1: rest assured that they're having lunch delivered into that courtroom.
57:27
Speaker 1: Hopefully not too many carbs because that would put them
57:29
Speaker 1: to sleep. And you know another thing to you, Daryl Cohen,
57:32
Speaker 1: the state does not have to prove motive, so they
57:36
Speaker 1: need to wrap up motive and get to the facts
57:39
Speaker 1: of the night of the murder. I completely agree with you, Nancy.
57:43
Speaker 1: I analogize it to a wild, vicious animal being cornered,
57:47
Speaker 1: and that animal will do whatever it needs to do
57:50
Speaker 1: to survive. And I think that is what the state
57:53
Speaker 1: has to show that he did what he needed to
57:56
Speaker 1: do in his own demented mind with all of the
57:58
Speaker 1: drugs to survibe, and that meant killing his wife and
58:03
Speaker 1: his son. Other than that, getting rid of the motive.
58:07
Speaker 1: The motive thing, I don't like it. I just don't
58:10
Speaker 1: just rely on the facts, rely on what his lies are,
58:14
Speaker 1: rely on what the jewelry is looking at. And Nancy,
58:19
Speaker 1: you know one other thing struck me, Kelly that you
58:21
Speaker 1: may have seen. Go ahead, Dr Jeffrey, we're running out
58:24
Speaker 1: of time and make it quick, okay. So if we
58:27
Speaker 1: just look at all of Murdoch's answers, he answers exactly
58:31
Speaker 1: to fill in the holes for the evidence that the
58:33
Speaker 1: prosecution is presenting you're right, okay, Kelly, Let's go back
58:37
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Everybody, thank you for being with us
58:39
Speaker 1: on the lunch break. We're headed back in the courtroom.
58:41
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend.