Latest / Pod Save America / Dark Brandon Owns My Kevin

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Dark Brandon Owns My Kevin · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Joe Biden saves us from default with
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a budget deal that has some Republicans furious at Kevin McCarthy.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis steps up his attacks on Donald Trump as
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie and Mike Pence get ready to jump in
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the race. And later, Congresswoman Barbara Lee stops by Crooked
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• 0:41
  Speaker 1: seat in California. But first, big news. Vote Save America
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  Speaker 3: was so broke there was talk of dissolving itself completely.
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  Speaker 3: Then along came John Bug Woodard Jr., a 63-year-old gun-toting
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• 2:24
  Speaker 3: is Dreamtown, the story of Adelanto.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Subscribe to Dreamtown now to hear more bonus content before
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: its premiere on June 7th, wherever you get your podcasts.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. We have ourselves
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: a deal. Joe Biden and Kevin McCarthy have agreed on
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: a plan to avoid the first ever U.S. default, saving
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: us from a catastrophic recession that would have been entirely self-inflicted. Bravo. Bravo.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: In exchange for suspending the debt limit until 2024, Republicans
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: got shockingly little of the ransom they initially asked for.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: No cuts to Medicare, no cuts to Social Security or Medicaid,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: no repeal of the Inflation Reduction Act, no repeal of
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: student loan reform. The president will get his proposed budget
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: for the military and veterans. All other spending will be
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the same next year as it was this year and
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: grow by only 1% in 2025. which with inflation amounts
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to a slight cut. The work requirements for food assistance
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: already apply to people between 18 and 49 years old.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: This deal will raise the age to 54, but it
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: also exempts veterans and the homeless, which means more people
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: overall will be able to get help. The work requirements
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: for welfare will be tightened slightly, but only amounts to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: a cut of 5 million over 10 years. And there's
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: a slight cut to the IRS that won't really affect
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the agency for several years. The House passed the bill
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday by 314 to 117. It was supported by
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: 149 Republicans and 165 Democrats. And it's expected to pass
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the Senate as well. Obviously, this is not a budget
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Democrats would have passed if they controlled both houses of Congress.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of progressives. voted no in the House, probably
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: in the Senate as well, though they don't sound particularly
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: outraged by this outcome. What's your take on the substance
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: of the deal?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I think we should stipulate this is stupid and performatively
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: cruel public policy. Democrats would never do this on their own.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: The idea that deficits are our number one concern is stupid.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: The idea that you would tackle deficits without asking the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: wealthy corporations to pay what they owe or even looking
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: at the military budget is just asinine. Having said that,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: this is way better than it could have been. Biden
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: was very smart about how they went about doing this.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: They gave McCarthy symbolic wins in exchange to protect substance
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: of progress, the fact that the Inflation Reduction Act is preserved,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and particularly the climate funding is preserved. I'll give you
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: an example of one way in which they traded the symbolism.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: McCarthy came in and said, in his initial bill, they
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: were going to repeal Biden's student loan policy. forgiveness plan,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: which the court may do for them, but it's before that.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, yeah.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: But Biden did not give that up. He could have
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: given it up and said, well, I'll probably lose in
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the court anyway. I'll give them this in exchange for
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: something else. He kept that. But what he gave instead
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: was a statutory end to the pause in student loan
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: payment collections. But Biden's team has already said they were
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: going to end that pause this summer anyway. So McCarthy
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: can go back to his team and say, look what
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I got from Biden. But he got something Biden was
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: going to give him anyway. And so it was just
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: very well handled here. And I get that no one
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: is going to rush out to volunteer in 2024 because
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: something is better than could have been or not as
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: bad as expected. But given where we could have been,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: there was no default. We avoided the economic damage that
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: often happens in the run-up to default during these debt
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: limit crises. And the cuts are smaller than we thought,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and the budget caps are for less time than we thought.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And that's all, I think, way better than we hoped.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And I think that is to the credit of the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: president and his team.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't see how you'd get a better budget
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: if there had been no debt limit fight, which, as
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: we've talked about, they would have had to negotiate over
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a budget anyway. If those negotiations failed, there's a good
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: chance of a government shutdown that they would have had
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to figure out their way out of anyway, both sides. And,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the fact is Republicans control the House. And
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: so when you have one party in control of half
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: a branch of government, then you're going to have to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: negotiate and compromise at some point or else you get
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a government shutdown. Or in this case, you would have
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: had a default. And with that context in mind and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: those constraints in mind, I... genuinely don't see how Democrats
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: could have gotten a better deal than they already had.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: A cut of a few percent on spending, which is
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: what it is when you factor in inflation, isn't that
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: much in the grand scheme of things. As you said,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the work requirements are dumb and are going to hurt
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: some people for sure, but they're pretty minor. The fact
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: that the welfare work requirement change will only save 5
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: million over 10 years, that is like Nothing compared to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things in a budget that is
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars large. So my
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: question is, like, how did Joe Biden get a deal
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: this good from a party this crazy? Like, did he
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: outsmart Kevin McCarthy? Did McCarthy outsmart the Freedom Caucus? I mean,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: you and I and most other people, in fairness, who
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: talked about this, thought that either we would default or
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy would lose his job. And neither of those
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: things happened.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I think it is clear that Biden outsmarted McCarthy, for sure.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And I think that happened in two ways. And really,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: for all of the absolutely absurd levels of credit that
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Capitol Hill press corps is falling all over themselves to
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: give McCarthy today, what they should really be doing is
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: crediting Joe Biden, who kind of did Kevin McCarthy's job
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: for him. And what Biden did that was, I think,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: quite smart here is when they went into these negotiations,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Biden recognized that McCarthy could only pass a deal, would
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: only pass a deal that he thought would allow him
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: to keep his job. He could only pass a deal
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: that it looked like he won a bunch of things.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: And so once the negotiation started, and we can go
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: back in time and debate why Democrats didn't get rid
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: of the debt limit during the lame docker, why they
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: didn't mint a trillion dollar corn, and we've talked about
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: why the 14th Amendment stuff didn't make a ton of
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: sense in this context. But once you got to the
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: point where McCarthy's folks and Biden's folks were sitting down
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: and the president was talking to the speaker, what the
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: president did was he stayed quiet. He didn't make any–
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: draw any red lines. He didn't go out and beat
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: up McCarthy or polarize the negotiations. He gave McCarthy space.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And Biden understood that particularly in Republican politics, these negotiations
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: can be zero-sum. So if Biden comes out and says,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I will not accept one penny less than this, then
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden that becomes something that McCarthy can't
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: give up or it looks like he conceded to Biden.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: So the president took a bunch of shit from people
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: in his own party, from a lot of members of
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Congress who complained about it, by being quiet because McCarthy
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: was out there. They were bragging.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's losing the messaging war. He's got to go
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: out there and use the bully pulpit more. Where is he?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Why is he so quiet?
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And he made the right decisions. He was willing, and
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: presidents have to make this decision all the time, which
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: is take on short-term political water to achieve a medium-term
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: or long-term goal. And he did that here, and he
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: got a better deal because of it. And then the
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: second way that this really worked out for the president
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: is that frankly, there's an asymmetry in these negotiations between
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats when it gets to how government actually works.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Republicans hate government. They don't care about government. They're trying
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: to take it down. They have no familiarity with the
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: details of how these programs works. Biden's folks, we know
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of them. We've worked with a lot of them.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: They have spent, in some cases, decades, dating back to
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: the 90s, building these programs and ministering these programs, understanding
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: how they work. And so when you get to the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: table of It becomes very easy to make Republicans think
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: they're getting something when really you're writing the policy in
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: a way that helps you. The work requirement is a
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: perfect example. We're going to raise the work requirement age,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: which is going to affect some people, but then we're
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: going to expand the eligibility so more people will actually
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: get access to the program in total. And they kind
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: of ran circles around him in the actual writing of
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the bill. And so in those two ways, that worked
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: for Biden and he got a better deal than it
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: could have been.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that the White House likes to say
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that Biden is often underestimated, and they say that quite
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a bit. I think in this instance, and in many instances, actually,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: they're right. You know, they're absolutely right. Like, Joe Biden
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: is a really good negotiator, and he did an excellent job,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and he didn't let all of the political pressure get
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to him on this. And, you know, there was a
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: lot of risk to that. I want to go back
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to the 14th Amendment thing one more time because there's
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: still the detractors on the deal on the left would
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: still say like he should have just gone ahead with
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the 14th Amendment. Now that we know what this deal
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: looks like, it is pretty clear that there was a
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: choice for Joe Biden, right? You either make a bet
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: that John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett are
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: going to agree with the Democrats' legal interpretation of the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: 14th Amendment. If you win that bet, There are no cuts,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: no policy concessions, and no debt limit fight ever again.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So that's cool. If you lose that bet, then a
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: country that's already dealing with inflation is plunged into an
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: economic crisis and perhaps a prolonged recession that there's no
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: obvious way out of. We don't know how the deal
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is going to come about to get out of that
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: once the court decides, okay, the 14th of May, that's wrong.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: The theory is wrong. Then we're all fucked. So you
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: can either make that choice and take that bet. The
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: win is big. The loss is also pretty big. Or
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you take this deal that is a slight cut in
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: spending for two years. I mean, to me, that's not
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: even close. It's not even close.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I want to help you with one thing here, which
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: is I'm going to add an addendum to include Samuel
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Alito in your list. Otherwise, the host of Strict Scrutiny
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: are going to come running through that wall like in
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: a Kool-Aid commercial.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. The reason I list those three is
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: because obviously we don't have Alito. Obviously we don't have Thomas.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And obviously we don't have Gorsuch. The three most likely
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to agree with us would be those three.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: There we go. Just trying to protect you, ourselves, the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: studio wall.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: No prayer that we ever get a lead on.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Famous Samuel Lito-pologist that you are, yes.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about McCarthy, who, for some reason, you
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: don't think should get much credit for this.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Do you disagree?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give Kevin McCarthy a little credit in
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: this one single instance.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. Elijah, get a time marker. Let's
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: clip this thing. I want it on TikTok by lunchtime.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy has this Crazy fucking caucus. He went through
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: how many rounds of, you know, humiliation to try to
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: get this job. Barely cobbled a coalition together. How many
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: times do we say he's stupid? He's not going to
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: be able to get this through the House. He's not
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: going to be able to get anything through the House,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: which he did. He did get a bill through the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: House that was horrific if Joe Biden and the Democrats
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: had gone with that. And then when Joe Biden said,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: of course, we're not going to go with that, he
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: somehow negotiated a deal, but still got a majority of
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Republicans in the House to go along with it. How
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: did he do that? This is just dumb luck? Kevin
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: McCarthy just stumbled into this?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: It's not dumb luck, but I just do not think
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: we should hand out awards or compare people to LBJ
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: or for doing the bare minimum required of their jobs.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Did someone compare Kevin McCarthy to LBJ?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I think if you read Punchbowl this morning and you took,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: there's an anagram that says somewhere in there that Kevin
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: McCarthy is the second coming of LBJ. We're grading him
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: on a curve here. We didn't default. We didn't default
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: and he didn't get fired.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: But here's a curve. I think this was a better
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: deal and less chaos than John Boehner had with us
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: in 2011. Yeah, that is absolutely true. I think Kevin
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: McCarthy in this instance did a better job than John
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Boehner or Paul Ryan would have done, especially Paul Ryan,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: because Paul Ryan's a policy wonk who actually cares about
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: cutting government down to the bone more than anything else.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And I think in this instance, Kevin McCarthy being like,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I don't give a shit about anything, really. I don't
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: have any strong policy beliefs. I just want to keep
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: my job. And yeah, I want to avert default too,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: because that could cost me my job as well. I
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: think You don't have to believe that Kevin McCarthy has
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: pure motivations here, but I think he was skilled at
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: figuring out how to get out of this particular predicament
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: is all I'm saying.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think skilled is doing a lot of work there.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Once again, all he did was keep the government open
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and avoid a global financial catastrophe.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know that. That is like the basics of
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: your job.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what he did.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: But doing that with this caucus... with the nuts that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: he has in the Republican House, does not seem like
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: an easy job.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So here's how I think we should judge this. Well, first,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: let me say, your question is, why isn't he losing
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: his job, right?
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: The reason he is not losing his job here, or
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the two reasons he's not losing his job, is the first,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: there's no obvious alternative. There's no one that someone wants
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: in that job. And the vast majority of the caucus
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to go through that absolutely embarrassing shit show
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: they went through six months ago. So they would have
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to be– they're not going to toss him overboard for
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: what is largely a venal sin against the MAGA 10 commandments,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: which is what this is. The other reason is this
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: was a fight over spending and the size of government.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: It's not fucking 2010. This is not when Republicans get
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: out of bed every morning. The Republican Party post-Trump is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: a party driven by culture war politics. issues. And so
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: if this was a fight over abortion, trans rights, book bans,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: all those, immigration, if he had not achieved what he
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: promised to achieve on those issues, it might be a
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: different thing. No one cares here. They're all just play
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: acting in this. They had to have a fight. The
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Republican base wanted him to do something. They didn't really
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: care what it was. And so at the end of
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the day, it really wasn't a big deal politically because
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: it was not over something they really care about. Let's
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: see what happens if one of those issues were to
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: come up with similar stakes?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Undoubtedly, he will lose that fight. That to me is
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the biggest reason, is that the politics of, well, overall
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: politics have changed, but especially Republican politics within the Republican
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Party has changed, where the central fight during the Obama
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: era was over the size and role of government and spending.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And now it's all culture war, it's investigations. I mean,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a great example is Jim Jordan, House Freedom Caucus godfather,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: super right-wing MAGA guy. Kevin McCarthy puts him on oversight,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: gives him the chair of oversight to bring him inside
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the tent. And then Jordan is the one telling the
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: right wing, just calm down over this deal. Because what
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: does Jordan care about? Jordan doesn't really care that much
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: about spending. Jordan cares that he gets to go do
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: his investigations and attack the Biden administration. And the same
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: thing goes with, like you said, with the culture war issues.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: One more thing on this is the way to judges
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: is not what just happened, but what happens next. Because
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: McCarthy is going to be– he spent some of his
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: political capital with the far right. And so how is
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: he going to build that back? He was on CNBC
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the day of the vote talking about holding– FBI Director
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Christopher Wray, in contempt for not helping them obstruct investigations
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: into Donald Trump. So there's going to be, we have
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to see what he's going to do. There was a
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: report that he is giving the January 6th footage to
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: a conspiracy theorist. There's going to be a bunch of
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: things he's going to do to rebuild that goodwill. And
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: we have to judge not just how he spent the capital,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: but how he builds it back.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Well, let's listen to the, so only four of 34
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus members voted yes on this deal. And the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: four that did vote yes included Marjorie Taylor Greene, which
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: is just wild. So he did lose most of the
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Freedom Caucus. It just didn't matter that much. But they're
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: pretty outraged. A few Republicans, a few of the Freedom
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Caucus magoons even did make some noise about outing McCarthy
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: as speaker. Let's listen.
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: After this vote, and he will win the vote tonight,
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: but after this vote, we will have discussions about whether
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: there should be a motion to vacate or not.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: It is inescapable to me that there must be a
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: motion to vacate the chair.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: If a majority of Republicans are against a piece of
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: legislation and you use Democrats to pass it, that would
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: immediately be a black letter violation of the deal we
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: had with McCarthy to allow his assent to the speakership.
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: And it would likely trigger an immediate motion to vacate.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: So they're not happy. They're not happy. And they're just
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: out there attacking Kevin McCarthy. But you know, Back to
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the scenario where they actually you know, decide to go
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: forward with a motion to vacate. So some Republican introduces it,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: they take a vote. And then assuming that Democrats that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: no Democrats step in to save McCarthy, McCarthy could lose
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: because he only has a four seat majority. And there
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: are quite a few Republicans who were pissed at him.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: But then you're right, then what happens after that? Because
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: How do you get a more conservative speaker than Kevin
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: McCarthy when you couldn't get that back in January and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: nothing has really changed? And do Democrats and for Democrats,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: do Democrats really want a more right wing speaker than
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy? Or do they just step in to try
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to save him because Kevin McCarthy is better than whatever
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you're going to get next?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I think Democrats want chaos in that situation. That'd be
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: my personal recommendation. But it's ultimately, it's like, you're going
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: to trade in for Steve Scalise, the guy who also
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: helped pass the deal. Like to what, what's the, what's
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the upside there?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: You have to go pretty far down the list before
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: you get to like Jim Jordan as the, as the speaker, right?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: That's probably not going to happen.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: And they tried that, right? And that's not going to
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: get them the two, the two, I think it's 217
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: they need right now because the house is down a member,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: but you just, there's no, the only person right now who,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: who has the votes to be speaker of the house is,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: is Kevin McCarthy. There's no one else.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Except maybe they can trade for Steve Scalise, but to
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: what end?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I think there's one last quality that Kevin McCarthy has
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: that makes him ideal for this role and why he
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: was successful is that he can endure just an endless
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: amount of humiliation and pain because he is Tom Wamsgan.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: He is.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: He is a pain sponge. He is a pain sponge.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy is a pain sponge.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: That's what I'll say about him.
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: So Democrats don't currently have the votes to get rid
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of the debt ceiling permanently. Biden said a few weeks
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: ago he's open to invoking the 14th Amendment in the
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: future so we don't have to go through this again.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: What does that look like? Are there other ways Democrats
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: can make sure that we don't go through this again
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: in 2025, which is the next time we'll hit the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: debt limit?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Happy reelection, Joe Biden. The debt limit expires 19 days
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: before you get inaugurated, which you will then have months
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of extraordinary measures, I imagine, to get you Into the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: spring or summer, but what a fun way to start.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: I still have yet to hear anyone articulate a real
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: way in which you could test the proposition of the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: 14th Amendment without having crossed the X date, without having
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: actually spent money, raised debt after you no longer have
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the authority to do so. Maybe someone has a plan
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: And by the way, if you've heard of it, if
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you're a legal scholar, if you're a member of Congress,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: if you have an idea of how to do that,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: please let us know. Because I have done the same thing.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I've scoured every take. And I have not heard one
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: person who's talked about the 14th Amendment talk about how
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you could do it before you hit the X date.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So if you can't do that, the only thing we
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: can really do here is re-elect Joe Biden. keep the Senate,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: retake the House, which will at least allow us to
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: extend the debt limit without any drama next time around.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: There is certainly not majority support in either the House
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: or the Senate for repealing the mechanism yet, but we
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: should be working towards that because it is playing with fire.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And the longer you play with fire, the more likely
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: you are to get burned. Just because nothing bad happened
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: this time doesn't mean something bad won't happen next time.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: And so we should try to take it away. I
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: think legislatively is probably the only way to do that,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: absent this secret legal theory that no one will put
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: on the internet, at least in a place where you
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and I can find it.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: I know there's still that case working its way through
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the courts where I think a government employees union is
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: suing Yellen saying that like, she can't like, it's not
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: legal for her to abide by the debt ceiling because
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. So like maybe that goes
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: through the courts and something happens. I don't know. That's
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the only thing that I've heard of otherwise, but yeah, no. And,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and Schumer, by the way, someone asked him about not, uh,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: getting rid of the debt ceiling or lifting the debt
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: ceiling when we had the majority. And he said it
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't just Manchin, it was three or four others. So
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I guess then our next move is to find those
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: three or four others and to put some pressure on
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: them to change their votes.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Well, this is sort of why Biden did not leap
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: at that idea, because you can't do it. It's also
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: there's short-term political pain in doing so. If just voting
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to extend the debt limit is seen as a bad
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: political vote, imagine what eliminating it would be like in
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the minds of these people. Now, I think that's a
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: price worth paying and you can handle that in the
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: long run. But in the mind of politicians who almost
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: by definition fail the marshmallow test, they're always going to
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: choose short-term political security over long-term strategic benefit. And so
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: it's always going to be a hard vote to get
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: them to do.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: And look, I get you don't want the short-term political pain,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: but I would argue that's– It doesn't bring much political
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: pain because like 5% of people in this fucking country
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: even know what the debt limit is. So, you know,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: good luck with your campaign where someone's going to run
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: out and be like, oh, they voted to eliminate the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: debt limit. No one cares about that.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I think we could probably, if you and I sat
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: down together, write a pretty killer political ad on that point,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: but we'll keep it to ourselves.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's keep it to ourselves. All right, lots of
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: new developments in the Republican primary.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: There she is.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Rhonda Sanctimonious.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So two of the people Trump almost killed will try
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to get their revenge at the ballot box by announcing
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: their presidential campaigns next week, Chris Christie and Mike Pence.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: The former vice president has boldly criticized his old boss
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: for endangering him and his family on January 6th. And
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Christie has basically promised to spend the primary kicking the
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: shit out of Trump. Meanwhile, Ron DeSantis, coming off his
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: wildly successful Twitter circles announcement, has finally started to sharpen
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: his case against Trump in Iowa this week. Let's listen.
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: At the end of the day, leadership is not about entertainment.
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: It's not about building a brand. It's not about virtue signaling.
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: It is about results. The former president's now attacking me
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: saying that Cuomo did better handling COVID than Florida did.
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: He attacked me for opposing an amnesty bill in the Congress.
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: He did support this amnesty, this good lot too. Two
• 26:13
  Speaker 6: million illegal aliens he wanted to amnesty. I opposed it
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: because that's what America first principles dictate, that you're opposed
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: to amnesty. In terms of the debt limit, Yeah, I
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: think he should come up. I mean, are you leading
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: from the front, or are you waiting for polls to
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: tell you what position to take? I don't need someone
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: to give me a list to know what a conservative
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: justice looks like. He used to say how great Florida was. Hell,
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: his whole family moved to Florida under my governorship.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: So some of this stuff, I think, is, look, if
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: someone is saying that, I am going to counterpunch. I'm
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: going to fight back on it. I'm going to focus
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: my fire on Biden. And I think he should do
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: the same. He gives Biden a free pass. I'm focusing
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: on Biden.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: That's my focus. So reporters have described these attacks as
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: uppercuts and haymakers. What do you think?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Huh. Haymakers, huh?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: A haymaker.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, we should stipulate the press has bloodlust when
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: it comes to covering politics. They'll take anything and make
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: it seem like an uppercut or a haymaker.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: You don't say.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Turns out one of their biases might be conflict, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: they love conflict. I also think it's probably pretty likely
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: that DeSantis' team is pitching reporters on how all of
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: these are haymakers and uppercuts, because they have to show
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: the small handful of very wealthy MAGA-adjacent billionaires who plan
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: to spend $ 200 million to get him elected, that he's
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: fighting back because the narrative has been he's just been
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: getting punched in the face repeatedly for six months without
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: doing anything. So yeah, I wouldn't call these particularly tough attacks,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: but at least he is kind of sort of circling
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: around the idea that he might make some sort of
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: case against Donald Trump.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It's an interesting strategy where I think the first part
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: of that clip was what he was saying to the
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: audience in a speech. And there he did not name Trump.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: And then when reporters asked him, national reporters asked him
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: some of these questions, that's when he actually started mentioning
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Trump by name. So clearly, they are hoping that the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: actual voters, the Republican voters who still like Trump very much,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: do not get the haymaker or the uppercut, do not
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: hear them. And instead, like you said, the national press
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: writes headlines that probably some of the The rich donors
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and the political class, they digest and not so much
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the regular MAGA voters out there.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I would note that that is an absolutely idiotic, anachronistic,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: kindergarten-level understanding of how the media ecosystem works.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Do you think these people.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Are sequestered like a jury after they leave the town hall?
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: It's just stupid, and I'm sure there are local reporters
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: in those same scrums who are going to put them
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: in their stories read by the local voters. It's just dumb.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Have one message, say it at the rally, at the
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: town hall, in one-on-one conversations at the diner, and to
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: the press. It's not that fucking complicated.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: What do you think about the substance of the case
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: DeSantis is starting to make against Trump, even if it's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: still a little soft, subtle split between different audiences?
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: It's largely whatever. It's kind of sort of fine. The
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: problem is not what he's saying. It's how he's saying it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm not even talking about his voice, which is.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: We could do it in a whole episode on.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And we probably will. We've got a lot of time
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: between now and Iowa. But he sounds like a typical politician.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And it's all like these very weird, unexplained esoteric references.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: He said Cuomo did a better job than me on COVID.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: He's attacking me for supporting an amnesty bill with no context.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Do you want Cuomo's New York or the free state
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: of Florida? He's like, I'd be happy for Iowans to
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: make that decision. I'm like, you would? Do you think
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: they're going to put all those pieces together? What are
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: you talking about?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I don't need a list to know what a conservative
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: justice is. It's a reference to a point in the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: 2016 primary where he put out a list of At
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the request of the Federalist Society of people he would
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: consider reporting to the Supreme Court because of the opening
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: for the Scalia seat. Now, I know that. You know that.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Who the fuck else is so sick in the head
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: that they know that?
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a– It's a bunch of haymakers and uppercuts
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: for the terminally online.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And you saw this same problem in the disastrous
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Twitter space announcement thing he did where he talked about
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: DEI and ESG like a hundred different times without ever
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: explaining what they were. Like he is a typical politician
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: who talks like a typical politician who seems to be
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: in a political right wing political bubble, I guess. And
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: that is very evident in his messaging either against Trump
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: for himself or whatever else.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I also think there's something a bit weird about and
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: contradictory about his message that I am more electable than Trump.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: But I am the true MAGA king. I am the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: real conservative who delivers. And Donald Trump only does what's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in his own political interest. He was for amnesty at
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: one point. He basically is hitting him from the right,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: saying that Donald Trump moved left on too many things.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: But that also– by the way, Ron DeSantis is the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: more electable candidate because people won't– I just think that's
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: a tough– I don't know.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know that Republican-based voters think that moderate equals electable.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: What do you think they think electable?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I think they think strong equals electable.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: So he's trying to be– he's trying to out– I.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Don't think he's actually reading– I don't think DeSantis is
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: accurately reading what the voters want. I think DeSantis thinks–
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I can be your Trump and I'm a more competent
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: version of Trump. And competence equals electability. Without actually really
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: ever saying Trump lost, that's the hard part is he
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: doesn't say that and Republicans don't really believe it. Someone
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: pointed this out today in one of the– maybe it
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: was a playbook. DeSantis said we would have 55 senators
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: without Trump, but DeSantis endorsed all the same losers that
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Trump did.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know this is the– yeah. I still think
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: his most effective message is like, I'm MAGA. without the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: political baggage, right? But I think you're right that the
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: way he's approaching that right now is too subtle, too online, too,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it's a little, it's basically what happens when every politician
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: who's running is losing by a lot and they haven't
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: been attacking their opponent and then suddenly everyone says, oh,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: you haven't been attacking and so they like throw out
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the whole kitchen sink and it's just sort of like
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: attacks from all different sides and it doesn't really amount
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to much. That's where he is right now.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: He also doesn't have a rationale for himself.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Back in December, the Monmouth poll had DeSantis beating Trump
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: 39 to 23. This week, they have Trump beating DeSantis
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: 43 to 19, with nearly two-thirds of Republican voters saying
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: that Trump is either definitely or probably the strongest candidate
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to beat Biden in 2024. That's tough for RuPaul's electability argument, huh?
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not great. And there are two big takeaways
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: from this poll. The first one is, that there is
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: no non-Trump lane in this party. Because DeSantis lost 20
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: points in six months. And almost every single one of
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: those points went to Donald Trump. So it's not that
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: they don't want Trump. It's that there is a group
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: of voters who are open to something better than Trump,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Trump plus. So it's not Trump versus non-Trump. It's Trump
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: versus Trump plus. And so it would say that there
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: was a non-Trump lane if some of those points went
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to Mike Pence or Tim Scott or Nikki Haley or
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: these other more clear non-Trumps. And the electability thing is
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: interesting because, you know, we've talked a lot in this
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: show and during the 2020 Democratic primaries about how electability
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: is a bullshit concept. No one really knows what it means.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: It's a guess. Particularly on the Democratic side, it's really
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: like sort of steeped in racial and gender tropes, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: where you sort of imagine the electorate through the eyes
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: of some imaginary Wisconsin voter. And, you know, in that,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I think actually the way that was handled redounded against
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: the women and candidates of color in 2020 and everything.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: But On the Republican side, it's pretty clear that electability
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: equals strength. And the reason that is is that you
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: have to put yourself in the mind of how a
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Republican-based voter sees the world and how they get their information.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: So these people are huge consumers of right-wing media. By definition,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: all the polls show that, that the definite Republican-based primary
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: voter is a right-wing media consumer. And what those people
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: see is a world in which there are all these
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: powerful forces working together– Hollywood, the government, academia, foreign countries–
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: to wage an all-out assault on the cultural relevance and
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: political power of a certain segment of voters. This is
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: what affirmative action is about. It's what trans rights are about.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: It's like the world is changing and you need a–
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: in that apocalyptic rendering of politics, you need a strong
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: man to protect you. And Trump just looks stronger, evinces strength,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: is pretty strategic at taking everything bad that happens to
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: him and turning it around and using it as evidence
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: of his strength and the threat he poses to the system.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: The Soros-funded DA indicted me for paying hush money. Somehow
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: he took hush money paid to cover up an affair
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and turned it into a piece of evidence that he
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: is a threat to this liberal world order. You're going
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: to see the same thing if Joe Biden's DOJ indicts
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: him for hoarding classified documents in his house and all
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: these other things. DeSantis does not look strong. There's nothing
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: about him that evinces strength, and Trump has that, and
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: that is why he's winning on that point. He looks
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: like a better chosen fighter to take on this largely
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: imaginary system Republicans believe in.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also why to our previous discussion, DeSantis is
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: trying to be Trump plus. That is his pitch now.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it makes a lot more sense on the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: electability side and on the, I'm the real mega king.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I can deliver. I'm more competent. I don't have the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: baggage and look at how strong I can be. I'm
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: going after the the liberal media and Disney and the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: woke corporations and the woke mind virus and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But let's see if he pulls it off. I'm still
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: looking at Iowa. DeSantis is going to spend a lot
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: of time there. I think if DeSantis loses Iowa, I
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: don't see how he goes on. I think obviously if
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Trump loses Iowa, he could go on. But I think
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: crazy things happen in Iowa the more you're there.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: The Iowa caucus is one of the rare formats that
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: allows a politician with real personal charisma and people skills
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to meet the voters individually, spend times with them and
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: persuade them. And there's one candidate who seems well fit.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: If he is the cog specifically designed for the machine
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: of relating to Iowa voters, it is Ron DeSantis.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: He's got the smile. He's got the voice, got the laugh.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: He's relatable.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: He's relatable.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: I just see him sitting in a pizza ranch talking
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: to a bunch of veterans about soybean crops.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: At the very least, he has Googled relatable. He has
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: asked chat GPT, what is a relatable politician? What do
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I do? So it works. Speaking of the non-Trump lane,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: let's talk about Mike Pence and Chris Christie. What are
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: they thinking? Do they have a prayer? Are you willing
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: to go to the mat for them like Lovett did
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: for Tim Scott?
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think you should excuse you or Tommy for
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: the way in which you've also validated Tim Scott's seriousness.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: What did I say? What did I say? Give me
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a quote.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I listen to the Tuesday pod at 1.75 speed, generally
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: at 5.30 in the morning on Wednesday mornings.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, you're up to 1.75, huh? I'm still in the 1.5 world.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Anywho, before we get to that, I just think it
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: is absolutely amazing and fitting that we are now, by
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the time Christie and Pence announce, we will be at
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: nearly 20% of Republican candidates who were almost murdered by Trump.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So what is Mike Pence thinking? That's a trick question
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: because Mike Pence doesn't think. Historically known as one of
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the dumbest people in American politics. I think he probably
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: truly believes that God has sent him on a mission
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: to win this election. So sure, why not? Chris Christie
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: is probably– two reasons for Chris Christie. One, I think
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: he needs attention like fish need water. And second, he
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: has his eyes on a job hosting a weekend show
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: on MSNBC. That could be easily attainable if he runs
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the sort of campaign he previewed where he's going to
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: spend the whole time mixing it up in media moments
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: with Trump. So, yeah, I think he sees no loss
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: for himself. Maybe a small chance he becomes president. Chance
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: he's got the 11 a.m. slot on Saturday on MSNBC.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there really is a certain brand of Acela Corridor politicians, pundits.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: that think like, you know, like it's Chris Christie, right?
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: He thinks he thinks that the Republicans he knows in
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Jersey and New York are like the Republicans elsewhere in
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: the country. He's the same people who think like Mike
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg is what the country is looking for for president.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Just a whole– the people who think that like a
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: real independent candidate that would have a chance is someone
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: who's fiscally conservative but socially liberal. It's like, hello, step
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: out into the rest of the fucking country.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: You mean the people pitching Jamie Dimon, Wall Street CEO?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, the Jamie Dimon bandwagon. Those people.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: You could fit them on the island of Manhattan. Okay.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So Chris Christie, here's the thing. No prayer. Sarah Longwell
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: was talking about this, and she said in her focus groups,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the only mystery is who they hate more, Mike Pence
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: or Chris Christie, because they hate both of them a lot.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: These are Republican voters, two-time Trump Republican voters. So the
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: base doesn't like them at all. I think Mike Pence's
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: entire campaign is absolutely pointless, just completely pointless. I have
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: no idea what's going on there. Chris Christie gets in
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: the race. and just attacks Donald Trump for the entire race, awesome.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to get him anywhere. His
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: theory is, I don't think Republican voters penalize you for
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: directly attacking Donald Trump. I think that is wildly optimistic,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: to say the least. But if he believes that, I'm
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: good with that. Chris Christie wants to come just kick
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the shit out of Donald Trump. Yeah, I'm here for that.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: That's great. Good for Chris Christie.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: If Republicans want to make the primary mildly more interesting
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: with some Donald Trump attacks from a certain loser, great.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: We got a lot of podcasts between now and then,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: so I'm for it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do have some concerns that with the field
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: being this large now, again, that it's only making it
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: easier for Donald Trump to win. Because anyone who's going
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: to vote for Chris Christie, all five or six people
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: in New Hampshire, Ron DeSantis could use those votes.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought about that. But Seth Maskett, who's a
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: political science professor who writes a sub stack, pointed out
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: the other day that Really, the difference between three candidates
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: and 12 candidates is not that big a deal because
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: it's just where the votes go. It doesn't matter if
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: they were dispersed to a third candidate or that same
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: number of votes is dispersed over 12 candidates. It doesn't
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: really make a huge bit of difference. For someone to
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: have a chance, it really has to be, for all
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: intents and purposes, a one-on-one match between DeSantis and Trump.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Could other people be on the ballot? Sure. If they're
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: getting no votes, it doesn't really matter. But if there
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: are any number of other viable candidates. It just makes
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: it that much easier for Trump to win. So I
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: don't care that it's 12. Three is, frankly, problematic.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: You know what my real test is? How many of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: these goobers finish behind Vivek Ramaswamy, who is the businessman
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: who came out of nowhere to be the anti-woke crusader
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: and who's running for president?
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: That's a real unique lane in this party.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Right. Because I think there's a good chance... that Vivek
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Ramaswamy finishes ahead of Mike Pence, Chris Christie, Asa Hutchinson,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and then Tim Scott and Nikki Haley, we'll see.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's not off the table.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, just a fun side bet here. So ideally,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: one of these candidates will argue that Donald Trump may
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: not be the strongest candidate due to his many crimes
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: and potential convictions. CNN broke the news yesterday that federal
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of of a summer
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: 2021 meeting in which Trump admits that he held onto
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and suggests that he'd like to share the information with
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: the people at that meeting, but knows that he can't
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: really declassify documents as an ex-president. Do you think that
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: stealing the government's secret war plans will land Donald Trump
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: in some trouble?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: One would hope. Thank you. It seems, I mean, the
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: guy has an amazing propensity to admit to crimes on tape.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: This is like the 17th time that's happened. And so
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: it's quite impressive. I do think before we send him
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: directly to jail without passing go on this, it's worth noting,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: because a lot of the commentary on this is, this
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: proves he didn't declassify the documents because he says after
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: he was president, he didn't declassify them. But to my understanding,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that has never been an argument that Team Trump has
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: made in the court of law. They make it in
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the court of public opinion all the time. They say
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: he has the power to do what he could have done.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: It's a way to get out of the argument in
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: cable news panels. But no attorney has gone into a courtroom,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I believe, and said that Trump did not commit a
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: crime because he declassified them because he didn't. And to
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: do so would be to violate every bit of your
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: legal ethics and possibly end yourself up in jail. And
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: so I don't know.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: What is their defense? What is the defense for this?
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: That you stole a bunch of top-secret documents, you were
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: asked for them back. The Washington Post broke last week
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: that the day before the DOJ came to get the documents,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: there was people moving boxes around, there was security footage,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and then there were Trump people asking the people who
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: run the security footage, how long does that... Just asking
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: for a friend. How long does that security footage stay
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: in the camera?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, they literally did the crime version of a
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: fire drill so that they could obstruct justice faster.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: That was in the story. Yeah, it was a fire drill. Okay,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: if the feds show up, okay, the feds are at
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the door. Let's pretend the feds are at the door.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Go.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: And then everyone did their crimes. I can't, it.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Doesn't seem like there's a great defense to this. I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: think the questions revolve around, will the Department of Justice
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: indict a former president on the Espionage Act? Or will
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: it be a Presidential Records Act violation? Or will it
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: be obstruction of justice? Obstruction of justice is a difficult
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: charge to prove and to do. And are they going
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: to do, like, would they charge a normal person for
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: this if he was just the Assistant Secretary for North
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: American Affairs, yes, he would be in prison. Are they
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: going to do that against the former president of the
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: United States in the middle of running for re-election against
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the boss of the people making the charges? I don't know.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: That's the question. I hope so.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I'm bullish on this one.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: You're bullish on the law, not the politics, I assume.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: No, I'm bullish on the law because I am a
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: legal expert, as we all know. But I do think–
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: like I would bet– that if they had to pick...
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I would bet that this is an easier case to
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: bring against Trump than the January 6th case.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I would... As a fellow legal expert who reads
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the same people on Twitter and listens to the same
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: single legal podcast that you do, I would agree with
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: that assessment.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: So that's why I'm feeling fairly bullish on this one. Now, politically,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned... Look, I do think it's easier to
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: make a political argument about why this is a crime
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: versus the hush money case. But, you know, it's not
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: like I expect it to change Republican voters' minds. In
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the general, I don't think it would be so good.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: He'll say, oh, Joe Biden took documents. Joe Biden gave
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: documents back. You stole secret war plans and you refused
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: to give them back.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's going to be an absolutely amazing moment
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: in the hypothetical debate about this. I'm not a document stealer.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: You're a document stealer. Chinatown.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Everyone's going to be covered with glory there. All right.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: So Trump, who we all know is a policy wonk,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: also laid out a few meaty proposals this week. He
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: wants to throw a giant nationwide year-long birthday party in
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: 2026 to commemorate America's 250th anniversary and to celebrate He's
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: also reviving his proposal to unilaterally end the constitutionally guaranteed
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: right to citizenship for anyone born in the United States.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: What a very, very cool, very legal way to celebrate
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: our founding values, huh?
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Very serious, very substantive, very patriotic. That's how I would
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: describe this.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: The party thing is so Trump. He wants to like
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: have a party in every state. He wants a giant,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: like a world fair kind of thing. Also, the year-long part,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: we're partying from, I think it's like Memorial Day till
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: July 4th of the next year.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, so it's not even on the calendar year?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: It's a whole year. It's a year-long party that goes
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: state by state. I mean... It is a very... Yeah,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: it's like you could hear a lot of people going,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: that sounds kind of fun. I like a party.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: But if you happen to be born here, And think
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: that you're an American. Think twice. Now, we should just
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: get into that because it would be horrific to end
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: what's known as birthright citizenship. It is in the 14th
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Amendment that any person born here in the United States
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: shall be granted citizenship. That is part of the Constitution
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: for some odd reason. The yahoos that work for Trump
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: have led him to believe that he can just end
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: that unilaterally through executive action, even though, again, It is
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: in the 14th Amendment. So it's horrifying because it's just
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: a way to get rid of dreamers, basically. It's a
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: way to make sure that the children who are born
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: here but born to parents who are not American citizens
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: don't get to become American citizens. That's all it is.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: So it's gross. But the idea that this would pass
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: legal muster, even with the Supreme Court, seems a bit far-fetched.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's absurd. It's racist. It's bigoted. It's frankly stupid.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I would say these two things. If you wanted to
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: try to take a somewhat serious political lens to this
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: is they are sort of a Rosetta Stone for understanding
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Trump's appeal and sort of the fundamentals of MAGAism, which
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: the party thing is, it's not just like Trump loves
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: the party and he's going to try to get the
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: village people to do a reunion for it or whatever
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: else weird thing he would do. But it is, the
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Republicans have tried to find a way, like their message
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: is essentially restorative nostalgia. They hate what America is now.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: And so they- sort of package their patriotism for trying
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: to return it to something else. And so it would
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: be very much in line to try to make a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: lot of the 250th birthday of America, et cetera. The
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: immigration thing is really important to understand how it fits
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: with Trumpism because immigration is the bridge between bigoted culture
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: war grievance and economic nationalism and populism. And this is
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: what I think so many of these other candidates get
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: wrong about when they're trying to take on Trump's mantle
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: is the fusing of those two things. And immigration is
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: what won him the nomination in 2016. And it was
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons why he won the presidency, because
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: he found a way to use it as evidence, both
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: that he was going to stand up for a certain
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: segment of white voters who were scared about the changing
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: demographics of America, and a certain set of workers who
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: feel left behind by the economy in part and incorrectly
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: because they believe that immigrants are taking their jobs. And
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: so this is right in his wheelhouse.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: And I would also say that, you know, we've talked
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: about before how the politics of immigration are complicated. I
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: think the median voter in this country would probably say
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: they are in favor of more border security and also
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: in favor of, uh, certainly, um, making sure that dreamers
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: become citizens, people who were born here, and also in
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: favor of more immigration and a pathway to citizenship for
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the undocumented immigrants who are here. And so I think
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: that the idea that you're going to end birthright citizenship,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen any polling on it, but I would
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: imagine it is quite unpopular, even though immigration politics are
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: sort of complicated. So I do think sort of in
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: the vein of the CNN town hall where Trump said
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: a bunch of shit that is, uh, probably wildly unpopular
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: and a general election. I think this falls into that
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: category and I don't think Democrats should necessarily be afraid
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: of this one.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: If it, if it came to pass, it would be horrific. But, um,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: I think we should go on the offense on this
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: one and let people know this is one of Trump's
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: plans or something that he's trying to do because I
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: don't think it's very popular. The party on the other hand,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure that's popular. Uh, I'll see
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you there. I'll see you at Trump's 2026 America party.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Congresswoman Barbara Lee will be right
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: here in studio, and she and I will talk about
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: her Senate race. Joining us now is a longtime progressive
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: champion who's now running to replace retiring Senator Dianne Feinstein.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Congresswoman Barbara Lee, thanks so much for being here.
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: Glad to be with you.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I know you've had a long week that was capped
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: off by a vote last night on the budget deal
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: in an early morning flight back here to California. You
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: voted no. Do you think President Biden could have negotiated
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a better deal?
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: I think the president negotiated what he could negotiate. It
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: was lose-lose based on Speaker McCarthy and the extreme MAGA Republicans.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: And if you look at their budget and what they
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: passed out of the House. In no way was that
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: acceptable to the president or House Democrats. And so I
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: think the president did a great job in the negotiations
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: based on the hand he was dealt. And, you know,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: I think that as an appropriator, however, you know, I
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: looked at that budget and the deal very carefully. And
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: just based on domestic discretionary spending We're going to lose
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: about a billion dollars this year. And so myself, the
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: ranking member, Rosa DeLauro, we voted against that because we
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: knew it was passing. I mean, we would never let
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: the country go into default. But we have to look at,
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: myself personally, the 20 million people who are one paycheck
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: away from poverty here in California and my district, and
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: I voted against the bill.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Were you at all surprised that McCarthy and a majority
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: of House Republicans agreed to this?
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: Well, when you look at the vote, it was Democrats
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: who delivered that vote.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: That is true. That is true. I didn't even know
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: if he'd get a majority of his majority, though.
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, look at the rule. You know, Democrats had
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: to take the rule over. And so these are extreme
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: MAGA Republicans, and they listened to Donald Trump, and Donald
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Trump wanted the country to go into default. This was
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: a manufactured crisis. We fought for a clean debt ceiling bill,
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: which we voted for three times under Donald Trump. And
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: in no way should it have been joined with an
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: appropriations budget vehicle in terms of the provisions of the bill.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: We asked for it to be on parallel tracks, but
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: that did not happen. And it was really the MAGA Republicans,
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: that was their bill and President Biden's. really mitigated against
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: a lot of the pain that could have been had
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: as a result of what happened.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: There are three House members in the California Senate race.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: You and Katie Porter voted against the deal. Adam Schiff
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: voted for it. Do you think that vote should be
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: a relevant issue in the Senate race?
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Well, the voters will decide. I don't view my votes
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: in a political context at all or in a campaign
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: context because I have to look out for the least
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: of these, the most vulnerable. my constituents, and again, the
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: 20 million people in California who are living one paycheck
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: away from poverty. When you look at the work requirements,
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: we looked at who's going to lose. It's going to
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: be primarily black and brown women with children. When you
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: look at a lot of the cuts and how they're
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: going to impact our domestic spending, it's going to be atrocious.
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: It's going to be harmful. When you look at defense,
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: for example, and I think you know that Defense spending,
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: it's unacceptable. It's not sustainable. That was $ 886 billion that
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: the most vulnerable are paying for. And when you look
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: at the escalation of the defense budget, I want to
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: remind you that the Pentagon has never been, well, it's
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: been audited five times. It was myself and a Republican
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: who got the requirement to audit the Pentagon, the only
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: agency that has not been audited. It's been audited five times,
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: and it has flunked five times. And we know that
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: there's $ 150 to $ 200 billion that GAO indicated, waste, fraud,
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: and abuse, taxpayer dollars, waste, fraud, and abuse. So $ 886
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: billion in this bill was just unacceptable, especially when you
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: have the most vulnerable paying for that.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: You've served in the House for 25 years, where you're
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: now the highest-ranking black woman in Democratic leadership. What made
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: you decide, I don't want to stay in the House,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want to retire, I want to run for Senate?
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: The Senate is absent voices such as mine. The Senate
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: needs representation. Representation matters in a democracy. And when you
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: look at what's missing in the Senate, people who look
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: like me, there are no black women in the Senate.
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: And since 1789, there have been two African-American women serving,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: Vice President Kamala Harris, and Senator Carol Moseley Braun. I
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: have the experience. I was in the California legislature. I'm
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: a progressive, but I know how to move the ball
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: forward to make sure that everyone has a shot at
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: the American dream. I've been fighting for years for the
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: LGBTQ plus community, for communities of color, for women, for
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: the disabled, for seniors, and I've been able to get
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: the job done. And you can look at my record.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: And so I think now the Senate needs my voice.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: It needs my perspective. There's so many issues that aren't
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: being addressed. When you look at housing, the affordable housing crisis,
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: when you look at the climate crisis, when you look
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: at public safety, when you look at what is taking
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: place here in California, again, the 20 million people living
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: one paycheck away from poverty. I've been fighting for low-income
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: working families and the poor all of my life. I've
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: lived that experience. And so I want to take my experiences,
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: but also job that I know I can do in
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: the Senate to make life better for every Californian.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: What do you want to try to get done in
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: the Senate that the House hasn't been able to get done?
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: Well, I want, first of all, to have the Senate
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: debate affordable housing, what that means, and some specific plans.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: You don't hear many senators talking about the unsheltered and
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: a plan to make HUD be more focused on how
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: we can work together to make sure people are not
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: evicted so that they don't get to the streets. But
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: if evictions take place, how we immediately, and I think
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: Mayor Bass is phenomenal in what she's doing. And she's
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: a supporter of mine, and I know her very well.
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: And I'm watching and seeing how she's doing this, getting
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: people off of the streets into shelter as quickly as
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: possible with children. It's a shame and disgrace in the
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: wealthiest country in the world, we have unsheltered children. But
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: with the mental health services, the wraparound services, all with
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: job training and whatever people need to stabilize their lives
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: and then make sure they have a safe, clean place
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: to live. But then you have to take it further
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: to rent. You know, the rents here in California, who
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: can afford on $ 15 to $ 20 an hour to live
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: in California? It's outrageous. I mean, yes, I support $ 25.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: This should be the floor. That's not even a living
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: wage in California. But we've got to get to where
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: people can live in California. And so we have to
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: raise the minimum wage to a living wage here so
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: people can afford to rent properties, you know, rent an
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: apartment or a house or whatever. And then you have
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: to look at homeownership. Young people can't purchase homes in California.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: In my own district now, I think the average two-bedroom
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: house is over $ 700, 000.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: So what do you do? So you have to have
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: a comprehensive affordable housing strategy. And the Senate is not
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: doing that and putting those ideas forward.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: What do you do about that? Because, as you mentioned,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: there's a problem with people not being able to afford
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: any shelter whatsoever and they're on the streets. There's also
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: rents are too high, impossible to buy a home. Is
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: this an issue of supply issues? Is there a need
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: to build more affordable housing? How does that get done?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Is this an issue of rent control? What are some
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: of the policies you think would make a difference?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: All of that. First of all, we need to figure
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: out how to prevent evictions. We saw that with the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: moratorium during the height of COVID. We had the resources
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: to do that, right? And we did it. Secondly, we
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: have to look at creative ways to develop affordable housing.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: I led the effort to establish with Bernie Sanders. He
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: did the Senate and the bill to develop housing trust funds.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: And this is just another way, a creative way to
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: have a strategy for homeownership where the trust fund buys
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: the land with property and then you go in and
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: rehab the property and then a potential homeowner can afford
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: that property because they're not paying for the land, but
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: yet they acquire equity in that house. And when they
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: want to sell, they'll sell it. They may not get
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: as much, but they will get a profit. And so
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: housing trust funds are very creative ways of developing affordable
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: housing for people to purchase homes. Then on renting apartments,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: you know, so many, and I have a bill right now,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: the Deposit Act, so many people can't afford the deposit
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: to rent a house or to rent an apartment. So
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: we have to have our federal government, and HUD can
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: do this, to help people with deposits. I mean, who
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: can come up with $ 5, 000 or $ 6, 000?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: If you're working at a $ 30, 000 job, right? And so
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: we have to have the federal government work with state
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: and local private sector to come up with a strategy
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: for deposits for people who can't afford it. So we
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: have to look at it as a continuum and as
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: a comprehensive strategy. And there are many, many ideas from
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: low-income housing groups, Mayor Bass, again, that need to be
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: championed in the Senate that aren't being championed now.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: You have long supported progressive causes, even when those causes
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: have been unpopular, even within the Democratic Party. What are
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: the important but maybe unpopular causes you think Democrats should
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: be doing more to support right now? Where is the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: party being too cautious?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: Well, I think the party has been very aggressive on
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: many issues, on climate. I mean, we're working now on
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: issues around climate justice with Raul Grijalva. I'm a co-sponsor
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: of his bill. So I think we need to do
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: more around climate justice and addressing climate for, you know,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: cleaning up low-income communities where pollutants have sighted their plants
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: and poisoned the soil and the air. And so we
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: need to do more on environmental justice issues. And I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: think the party is beginning to do more. I support
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: the decriminalization and legalization of cannabis. I co-chair the Cannabis Caucus.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: When you look at marijuana justice and when you look
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: at what's happening, what has happened with black and brown
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: people in this state, in the country, it's crazy. So
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: many people have records now because of that. And so
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: I think the party, we need to push. I was
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: on the drafting committee, one of 15 people. during this
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: last election, and actually when President Obama ran. And so
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: I got in provisions on decriminalization, but we couldn't get
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: the party to go toward descheduling and legalization. And so
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: we need to move toward that, of course, with the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: proper controls in place and the proper regulations, but we've
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: got to do that. It's a criminal, it's a justice issue.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I know you've been, one cause you've been supportive of
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: is the California's reparations task force plan. Mm-hmm. that represents
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: this country's biggest effort to design a reparations program. Can
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: you talk about how that program might work and how
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: you might convince other legislators in other states to adopt
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: such a program?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: Sure, and I'm really proud of, first, our Secretary of State,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: Shirley Weber, who took this on in spite of all
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: of the pushback, and the governor, Governor Newsom, for signing that.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: And I watched the work as it took place, and
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: I did speak at the last meeting. First, let me
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: just say, reparations is an international concept. This is not
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: just a United States concept. Countries everywhere in the world
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: understand that when damage is done, when there is harm
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: inflicted based on human rights, based on slavery, based on whatever,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: that you have a responsibility and a duty to repair
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: the damage. I have a bill to set up a truth,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: racial healing, and transformation commission also. Because you have to have,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: and transformation is reparations, but you have to have the
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: truth told about what has happened here in this country
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: as it relates to African Americans in the Middle Passage.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: And I think this task force had went around the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: state and they found some truth tellers in terms of
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: what has happened. And so we have a responsibility to
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: do this so we can heal because we're in a
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: divided country racially and a lot of people don't understand
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: the history of of this country in terms of the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: 250 years plus of being enslaved. My great-grandmother was born
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: in Galveston, Texas during slavery. And the generational trauma and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: the generational economic gaps that have happened, I mean, when
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: you look at the average income, the wealth gap, when
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: you look at the incarceration rates, when you look at
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: the housing disparities, when you look at the healthcare, I mean, COVID,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: you saw so many black people. So you see the damage.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: And criminal justice, that is not just because of today,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: that's because of policies that were developed as a result
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: of enslavement, Jim Crow, reconstruction, segregation, racism. And so this
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: has to be disrupted, these policies. And reparations is a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: way to do that. And of course, we supported Japanese reparations.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: We supported reparations for every group that has been damaged
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: by policies. And this is not an individual thing. This
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: is about the policies of our government and what our
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: policies have created in terms of generational gaps and generational
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: and systemic racism. And so I think the commission is
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: looking at ways to address that. And I'm not certain
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: the proper way. The experts are looking at it, but
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: we've got to do that. And I hope that California
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: will set the standard so that we can pass H.R.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: 40 in Congress, which is just a commission to study
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: nationally reparations and my bill to establish a truth, racial
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: healing and transformation commission.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: So there are a lot of California Democrats who are
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: big fans of all three of you running for Senate.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I know that Congresswoman Porter and Schiff are your colleagues.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: You all respect each other. sure you don't want this
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: to be a nasty race. But for people who like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: all of you, like all of your records, think you're
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: all progressive, how should they think about the differences between
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: the three of you?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: Well, they need to evaluate us all based on our merits,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: our experience, our background. But also, I would hope that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: they would look at representation. And in a democracy, this
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: country needs representation. And Black women should not be excluded.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: Our Democratic Party has really, in many ways, benefited from
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: the work and the blood, sweat and tears of black women.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: We're smart. OK, we carry a heavy load, not just
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: for the black community, for everyone who's been marginalized and
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: shut out. We want everyone to have a seat at
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: the table. And I think that's what I bring to
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: the Senate race and to the Senate.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: So a poll last week showed that 67 percent of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Californians believe that Dianne Feinstein is no longer fit to
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: serve in the Senate. Certainly, it also seems like the
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: people around her seem to know that she could retire
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: tomorrow and be replaced with another Democrat. So far, she
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: has refused to do that. Do you think that's the
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: right call?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: Listen, first of all, I did not file my papers
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: to run for the Senate until Senator Feinstein issued her statement.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: I talked to her in December, issued her statement. that
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: she was not going to run. That's out of respect.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: That's just who I am. And I want her to
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: get well. I hope she's feeling better. She's back in Washington, D.C.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: And that's it for me. I'm focused on this race
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: and her health. And I think that's what, and I
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: understand all of those who have different points of views.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: But just as a person who recognizes her legacy and
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: respects her and who I am as a human being,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: I'm just praying for her health. Okay.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of discourse about age in politics lately,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: not just Feinstein. Biden is 80, Trump is 76. You're 76.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: If you win, you'd be in your mid-80s at the
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: end of your first term. Have you given any thought
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: to whether You'd serve just one term or?
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't, I haven't, age is a number.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: I have a lot of experience and I bring a
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: heck of a lot to the party, the Democratic Party,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: and will bring a lot to the Senate. And so
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: I have not even thought about re-election. I'm thinking about
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: election right now so that I can win. And I
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: hope that Californians really understand that what's needed now in
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: the Senate is my experience. my courage and my convictions.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, when the authorization to use military
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: force was presented, everybody voted for it. That was to
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: go into Afghanistan after the horrific events of 9-11, where
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: so many people were killed in our country. There was
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: a 60-word resolution that came before us, and it gave
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: any president, including President Obama, the authority to go to
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: war in perpetuity. I said no to that. And I
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: think You have to have somebody who you can look
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: at their past to understand what they will do in
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: the future. And that's what I hope people will look
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: at and factor that in as they make their decisions,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: hopefully to vote for me.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: If Senator Feinstein does change her mind and resign, Governor
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Newsom will appoint her replacement. Do you think it would
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: be fair for him to appoint one of you running
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: for the Senate seat, knowing that it might give that
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: candidate a bit of an advantage?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: First of all, I'm not going to get involved in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: the governor's decision making process. I mean, he did commit
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: to appointing a black woman, but, you know, he's going
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: to do what he intends to do or wants to do.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: I'm going to stay focused. I got to stay focused.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: I've got to raise money. We're building a great team.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: We're doing a grassroots campaign, lots of support throughout the state.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: And if I started thinking about other things other than
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: my day job and this campaign, no, I'm very focused.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: This is obviously the first time you're running statewide. What
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: is it like? How's the campaign going? And what's sort
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: of the path to victory for you guys?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: It was great. Last week, you know, it was the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: convention here in Los Angeles. And it was really unbelievable
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: because let me tell you, I've been a party person,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: Democratic Party person, since I was a youth director, Northern
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: California youth director of the party. And there was so
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: many people there who knew me and who know my
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 4: work in the Democratic Party. I helped start the Peace Caucus,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: the Progressive Caucus. I helped start the Poverty Caucus. And
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: so I've worked with delegates and grassroots organizations in the
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: party for years and years and years. As I said,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: I was on the drafting committee twice for the Democratic
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: Party platform, brought a lot of Californians. provisions into our
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: national platform. And so it's really an exciting campaign because
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: I really am working to get the Democratic Party endorsement
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: like everybody else is. But last week at the convention,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, we had lines of people coming up to me,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: thanking me, telling me they're going to support me, telling
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: me they're going to vote for me. Lines of people
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: talking about the issues in California, where I stood. Many
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: wanted to compare me with the other two candidates, which
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: is fine. That's what you do in an election. And
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: after I spoke at several of the caucuses, those that
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: weren't decided came up and said, sign cards. I'm with you.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: I'm with you. So it's really a reward. And this
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: is all over in rural counties, in the desert, in
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: Southern California. You know, I was raised actually in San Fernando.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: I went to San Fernando Junior High and San Fernando
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: High School. And let me just finish by telling the
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: story about San Fernando High School. When I was 15,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: I wanted to be a cheerleader here in the Valley.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: And I'm a Valley girl.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: But there was a selection process where you'd go before
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: a selection committee and this little group would select you.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: But I didn't look like what they would select. Okay.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: 15 years old. And I wasn't sure what to do.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: And then I remember the NAACP because my mother was
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: one of the first 12 students to integrate under the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: NAACP's lawsuit, the University of Texas in El Paso.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: So I went to the NAACP. I said, I want...
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: to be a cheerleader. And they looked at that and
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: they said, we'll work with you. They helped me organize.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: And there was a lot of pushback, but we pushed
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: the administration to change the rules of the game from
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: a selection process to an election process. So I tried
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: out in front of the student body and guess what?
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: I won. I was the first black cheerleader at San
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: Fernando High School. And at the same time, other girls
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: of color won that same year. And so I share
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: that story Because it's about dismantling these systems that are
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: barriers for people, whatever it is, based on gender identity,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: based on whatever, race, gender, disability, age. we've got to
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: make this country fair and equal for all. And so
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: I've been doing this since I was 15, my first election,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: and I won that. And I intend to win this one.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask about sort of how
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: your life experiences have shaped your political views. You mentioned
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: that story. You were born in El Paso at a
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: time when the city was segregated. You and your family
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: have experienced firsthand the effects of segregation and discrimination. Like
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: you said, you're Mom was one of the first to
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: integrate University of Texas. You became the first black cheerleader
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: in the San Fernando High. How have all of these
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: sort of personal experiences shaped your view of politics, of
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: this country, and what's possible in this country?
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was found public assistance also after a marriage, which,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: you know, I found myself in a domestic violence situation.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: I'm a survivor of domestic violence. Had an abortion recently.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: early on when I was living in San Fernando. I
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: was on public assistance when I was a student at
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: Mills College, an all-women's college in Oakland. Raised two small,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: now my age, phenomenal young men as a single mom.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: I had to struggle a lot. I went to UC Berkeley.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: I founded a community mental health center. Now I understand
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: the mental health crisis because that's my background, clinical social work.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: And so I've always had many challenges that so many
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: black women and women of color have, but they're challenges
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: for me to figure out how to make sure everybody
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: doesn't have, they don't have to go through what I
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: went through. And so I always look at policies and
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: structures and what I can do to make life better
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: for everybody. And so my experiences have shaped my view.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: When I was in views of what I need to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: do as a public person, when I was in Sacramento,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: I was in the legislature. Pete Wilson signed more of
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: my bills into law than mostly anyone who was elected
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: in 1990. I had carried the Violence Against Women Act.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: I carried the bill that enhanced sentences for blocking abortion clinics.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: You just name it, and I did it. And he
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: signed my legislation because I'm progressive. He was right-wing, and
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: we'd end up, I'd negotiate, and I'm a good negotiator
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: right there and get my bills signed. And so I
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: believe that my life experiences... People will look at, I
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: said earlier, 20 million people in California live one paycheck
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: away from poverty. I fought my own party to say
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: the P word. It was always fighting, which we must do,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: and I continue to for the middle class, but we
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: never talked about the poor. Okay, so we set up
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: a task force. Finally, after about 10 years, I got
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: everyone to see the light, so I chaired the task
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: force on poverty and opportunity. So I just used those
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: personal experiences. to try to make life better for everyone.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: My dad was a retired lieutenant colonel in the Army.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: He served in World War II and in Korea. Yet
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: when he wanted to buy a house in San Leandro, California,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: you know, in San Leandro, they were burning crosses. We
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: had to drive around, coming from Southern California to visit
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: my aunts, had to drive around San Leandro because black
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: people were run out of town. My dad wanted to
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: buy a house in San Leandro, and my mom did
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: when he was stationed at Fort Ord. He was run
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: out of town, and he had his uniform on. But
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: guess what? Today I represent San Leandro in the House
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: of Representatives when I was in the legislature. So the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: arc of the moral universe is long, as Dr. King said,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 4: but it bends towards justice. And so I have to
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: just say, and still I rise. And we have to
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: remember that.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Well, that is very inspiring as is your story and career.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us. Good luck out on
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: the trail and come back again soon.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: Glad to be with you nicely and you here on
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: this coast.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. Take care. All right, that's our
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: show for today. Thank you to Barbara Lee for joining
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: us and hope everyone has a fantastic weekend.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 7: Oh, wait, John, John, John.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Oh. Oh, hi, Elijah.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 7: Before we go, can we do a quickie? Have a quickie?
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 7: Do a quickie?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: You know what? I would move on from there.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd move on. I'm glad you wore your... Go, continue.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Wore what?
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about it. Just go. It's Pride Month.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 7: Conservatives have embraced cancel culture recently, and they're going after
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 7: any brand that they deem as woke, including Bud Light
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 7: and Target. Now the right wing is divided over the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 7: latest brand to enter their crosshairs, Chick-fil-A. What did Chick-fil-A do?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 7: They hired a vice president of diversity, equity, and inclusion.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 7: Some conservatives are saying that they shouldn't boycott the famously
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 7: Christian company. Other conservatives have another take. Here's right-wing goon
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 7: and Elon Musk favorite, Benny Johnson.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: Let's hear the clip. Chick-fil-A, ladies and gentlemen, the biggest
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: fraud ever pulled on American Christians.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: But this is some type of Christian company.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: Shame on them.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: Shame on them.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you what.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Go read your Gospels. Let me tell you someone who
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: wasn't tolerant. Christ. Tolerance is not a Christian virtue.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: Wow, did that deliver. Let me tell you someone who
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't tolerant. Jesus Christ.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: Famously intolerant.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: I do not know that Benny Johnson has actually read
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: the Bible. I will tell you.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 7: He knows content.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: I was raised Catholic. I know my New Testament. Pretty
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: sure Jesus was tolerant. I thought he was going to say,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: you know what's not in the Bible? A vice president
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: of diversity. I thought he was going to go there.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: But no, no, he went after Jesus himself.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: The greatest fraud ever perpetuated on Christians. Is that what
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: he said?
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: This is tough.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: Was Chick-fil-A?
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: So if you are a God-fearing Christian, no more Bud Light,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: no more Chick-fil-A, no more Target. These people are going
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: to have to start like frequenting businesses that are for
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: libs because they're now running out of red state America companies.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: I think we're headed towards a completely separate anti-woke economy
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: funded by Elon Musk and Peter Thiel.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Good luck. Good luck.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: The anti-woke chicken restaurant, the anti-woke department store. I mean,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: there's an anti-woke bank. There's an anti-woke SPAC vehicle that's
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: being created. There will be no end of rich conservatives
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: trying to separate their voters from their money.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: Treat your neighbors as you would like to be treated.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: Not a Jesus, not a Jesus commandment. Not a directive
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: from Jesus.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: The golden rule, fake news.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Fake news. Jesus is here to spread the good word,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: and the good word is, fuck all your neighbors. Anyway,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. Benny Johnson, great job. Great job.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: Great job to you, Elijah.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Great job to you, Elijah. That was a fantastic take
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: to leave us on. And again, thank you, Barbara Lee,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: for being part of this. And everyone have a great weekend.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: We will talk to you next week.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy Gardner-Bernstein and
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Madeline Herringer,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Mia Kelman,
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