Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 573 – Help! A Mallard is Nesting in My Flowers!! What Should I Do?
Transcript
- Mike Brasher: Hey everybody, welcome back. I'm Dr. Mike Brasher and I'm going to be your host on this episode. I'm actually joined in studio by a guest co-host, Dr. Jared Henson from Ducks Unlimited. Jared, great to have you here with us. Happy to be here, Mike. And then on the line with us all the way from Ohio is our special guest today, Tim Jasinski with Lake Erie Nature and Science Center in Bay Village, Ohio. It's an interesting topic we're going to bring to you. Tim, thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me, man. You know, it's April, and it's mid-April. We're down here in the South. You're up in the Great Lakes area. This is the time of year when folks like myself, I'm sure Jared, you, and others that are in our profession get all sorts of calls about mallards starting to nest in flower pots. Pretty soon, we're going to hear about ducklings swimming in swimming pools. And we get a lot of interesting, you know, kind of crazy stories sometimes that make their way to us, email or phone or whatever. And that's sort of the topic that we want to talk with you about, because there's a lot of things that you do at the Nature and Science Center there. One of those is wildlife rehabilitation. You reached out to us, I think sometime late last year, saying you had come across the Ducks Unlimited podcast and you had some interesting stories and wondered if there was any experiences and wondered if there was a opportunity for us to kind of share some of that and we said, yeah, because we don't know the answers to all of these things. It gets kind of challenging, you know, when you start navigating permitting and so forth for migratory birds and so That's what you're going to, one of the things you'll be talking with us here about. But, you know, before we get into the specifics of that, I did want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about, a little more about the center where you are there. Tim Jasinski: Yeah. So thanks for having me, man. This is really good. I've been a fan of your podcast for a long time. And so I just thought, you know, I'll email them and see if they want to talk about ducks, because I love ducks. I mean, waterfowl been my thing since I was a kid. And I got involved with the center here. We've been open… 2020 would have been 75 years that we've been operating here. And it's just a wonderful place. And I got involved in 2007 because I had brought a Windows Strike Harry Woodpecker in. And I said, hey, how do I get a job here? And they're like, well, you have to have college and all this other stuff. I'm like, okay. At the time, I was working at a pet store. And then I, long story short, I started volunteering. And then I became a seasonal in 2010, and then also 2011. And then in 2013, I got hired part-time and they can't get rid of me now. So it's been a great journey and I love it here. It's not work. It's a job, but it's a passion to me. So it's really different. Most times you're at family functions, everyone's like, I gotta go to work tomorrow morning. and they're all bummed about it. I'm like, I love going to work. I don't want to leave work. So it's an amazing place. I run the rehabilitation part of it with a bunch of my coworkers and volunteers. We admit around 3,000 animals a year, and most of those are birds. And we specialize in waterfowl here at the center. So that's why I figured it'd be good to reach out to you guys and chat waterfowl because I love it. Mike Brasher: Yeah, because I would imagine we don't know. I would imagine there aren't a lot of places like yours that say they specialize in waterfowl. We do not have access to a lot of places around here that I'm aware of that specialize in waterfowl, or they're even set up to take in waterfowl, as far as I'm aware. I've looked into a few things, Jared, I'll get to talk about here in a second. I don't know of any either. And you're from here, Jared. You're from this area. And this is probably a good opportunity to introduce you to our audience. They're going to be hearing a little more of you kind of in the future. This is a good opportunity. They've actually heard from you before as the featured guest on our episode where we talked about black-bellied whistling ducks. You're now working for Ducks Unlimited, and so introduce yourself to our audience, what it is you're doing with us, and kind of your background and expertise, how you wound up at Ducks Unlimited. Jerad Henson: Yeah, that's a fun story. I am Dr. Jared Henson. I'm a project manager. at Ducks Unlimited on the sustainability side. So I help an amazing group of scientists help quantify and manage our projects that quantify all of the other benefits of our work aside from just the waterfowl work and help manage a lot of the long-term reporting that goes along with a lot of that work. So that's what I'm doing now. I came from academia. I was a associate professor at Christian Brothers University here in Memphis for six years and did my graduate work in the Memphis area before that for eight and a half years. Yeah, I did get two degrees there though. I got a master's and a PhD. Originally from just outside of Little Rock. Grew up, my dad was a DU volunteer. I grew up in events in the Little Rock area, loved that, had a blast. Helped set up a DU chapter in college at Arkansas Tech University, so that was a a fun time there and then went off to grad school and kind of got broke and didn't have the money to do as much of that fun stuff as I used to but had been watching to use job boards for the past four or five years knowing that I probably didn't see myself in academia for all that long and so I was really happy when this position opened up. It opened up at a wonderful time for me to make that transition and I'm really happy to be on Team DU now. Mike Brasher: Yeah, well we're thrilled to have you and also thrilled to have you becoming a contributor to some of the communication work that we do around our science, around our conservation, the different types of work that we do and the different audiences that it appeals to and that it's important to. So, yeah, you as our audience, you're going to hear more from Jared going forward as we get into the probably fall and winter. I'm not sure really what the schedule is for you, but you'll be one of our other guest hosts. There's always a few changes that we're making here and there, and this is one of them. I'm excited about it because you do have waterfowl expertise and have done a lot of studies. Physiology is your area of expertise in that regard. one of your areas of expertise and black-bellied whistling ducks, wood ducks, still have some work going on there. So, you're gonna bring a lot of additional insight from different perspectives and appreciate that. And on this topic today, when you were with CBU, you, I would imagine, you were the person that all your fellow faculty members and other folks would go to whenever they had a duck question, right? Including urban Jerad Henson: Oh yeah, I got lots of calls, and I'm gonna ask Tim about this, how many calls he gets when wood ducks start to fledge. When they start jumping out of that cavity, like I got, I'd field four or five of them a year. People think that I've got this duckling that's gonna die. Mike Brasher: Because it jumps. Jerad Henson: Because it jumps. And it's like, you just took it away from mom. She's close by. Do you get that too? Tim Jasinski: We do, yeah. As you know, wood ducks are more secretive birds. So they'll be nesting in trees and near forest edges and stuff. But we do get calls about that. And they do ask, well, they're going to die. Or we see more commonly than that, geese nesting on buildings. And so the same thing, I tell them, they're soft-bodied. They just hatched. They're light. They just jump, and then they bounce, and they get up, and they keep walking. So, there's nothing to worry about. That's natural, and that's how they do it. Mike Brasher: So, Tim, let's just do that. Let's talk about some of the more common questions that you get this time of year. I know there's a lot of rehab topics that we could discuss, specific injuries, specific illnesses, and so forth. But from the standpoint of ducks that most people see in urban settings and think, they're not supposed to be here. I need to care for these birds. I need to do something to save these birds. This is the time of year whenever you get a lot of those calls. What are some of the most common questions and calls that you get? Tim Jasinski: So right now, currently, the main question we get about ducks specifically are, you know, my pair of Mallards are back. They come back every year. There's no water here. What can I feed them or what can we do to help them out? And I just tell people, just leave them alone. They don't need us. They have all the food they need in the wild. Giving them food can actually cause issues for them. And so just leave them alone. And what happens is that I tell the folks that the hen, she finds a drake she likes and then they pair off and then they kind of go away from the water sources. Because as you guys know, when a hen lands into a pond this time of year, all drakes are on that hen. They're chasing her around. And so I think they just, the hens, they're smart. They pick the drake they like and then they leave and they go elsewhere and they kind of hang out while she's egg laying. So that's what's happened this time of year now is they're egg laying. So she's got a territory picked out where she wants to lay her eggs and it's often in people's backyards, like you said, in pots or that tall grass that the grass people plant in their yards that looks really cool and grows up real tall. That's a perfect little nest for a mallard hen. So one of the main questions we have is, should we feed them? And why are they here in my yard? There's no water source around. Mike Brasher: I want to talk about a little bit more on the why we shouldn't, why it's not necessary to and why we shouldn't feed them. I want to kind of treat this as though you're talking to somebody because I want this to be educational to the people listening to this that have these questions rather than us just kind of discussing what it is that you do. So what is that message on why we don't need to feed them and what are the problems that it can cause? Tim Jasinski: Absolutely. And so I tell people when they call and ask, what should I feed them? We don't need to feed them. They have everything they need in the wild. There's less and less forest and less and less things for wildlife. But specifically mallards, they're very adaptive to our cities and they do really well. So they have everything they need in the wild. They know what they're doing. They've evolved for this long. They don't need our help. And so when people are feeding, we're doing it because we enjoy it. But they don't need us. So I tell, especially with deer, all that stuff, I said, they don't need us. And so feeding birds can throw off their natural feeding patterns, their natural foods. Certain times of year, birds are more, their gut is more specific for certain types of foods. And so when you're giving them things that's not natural form, it can cause issues. Like specifically when you're putting corn down out for mallards or other waterfowl, if that gets wet and gets moldy, that could get them really sick. This morning, actually, I went to stop at the drugstore and there's a goose on a nest and there is piles and piles of food around her and she doesn't need that. And that's just going to cause a lot of issues. So I just tell people that they have everything they need in the wild. They don't need us for food. They know what kind of food is best for them and natural foods, that's what they need. And there's no reason we should need to feed them. Jerad Henson: All right, Tim, so on that conversation, I'm going to go ahead and just ask the question, should I give that duck or goose bread or crackers? Tim Jasinski: Absolutely not. Bread is a very bad food source for them. There's no real nutrition for them. they eat too much of it and it can build up in their system and cause a lot of issues like aspergillosis or botulism or other things like that. And it's not even really healthy really for people unless you get the good bread. It's not a good food source. I grew up as a kid when I was little, feeding ducks bread at ponds. And as I got older and learned more, you see it causes a lot of issues. One specific thing is angel wing. You see that often in Canada geese. And it's reversible if caught early enough, but most of the time people don't notice it until it's too late and we get the calls in August. Well, this goose is by itself. It's been around summer. What can we do to help it? Nothing now, unfortunately. So yeah, bread's bad for them. You don't want to feed them bread. We're always trying to get that message out of feeding bread. It's such a bad thing for them. So yeah, absolutely not. No bread. Mike Brasher: Okay, so the next question is, you get a lot of these calls, people saying, I have, yeah, my pair of mallards is back, the hen, or maybe a mallard has appeared for the first time in somebody's subdivision and somebody is, you know, watering their flower pot, their, their plant in their flower pot and they see this mallard and they call us or call you. Whenever they call us, they want to know if somebody can come and relocate the bird or something of that nature. And there's all sorts of reasons why we can't do that. But when you get those calls, somebody saying, this duck doesn't belong here. Is there somebody that can come get it and save it? She's going to be eaten by the cat or by a dog or something. What's your response in those situations, Tim? Tim Jasinski: My response is it's illegal to remove them unless you have a permit issued from the state or the feds. And there's no reason to move them. I think the one concern, you know, most of these calls, people are concerned. They want to help. They don't want to see the bird injured or hurt. And so they call us for help. And so that's part of our… We do a ton of education here. And this is just trying to… Every situation is different, of course. But typically, we tell people just leave her alone. She knows what she's doing. She could get killed by a predator, but that's natural. That's nature and we shouldn't interfere with that. And she's going to be there while she's laying her eggs, an egg a day until it's a full clutch. and then she'll incubate for about 28 days and then she'll be off her way. She doesn't want to raise them in your yard. And so I just tell people just enjoy that spectacle because who wouldn't want to duck nest in their yard? That's cool. And situations are different if they have dogs, but typically it's just leave them alone. They know what they're doing and just watch from afar. Mike Brasher: It's reassuring to hear you provide these descriptions and telling what you do, because those are typically the same things that I do. And I'm not trained in the urban wildlife and how to deal with those types of things, but it is. And I'm sure you enjoy a lot of these calls, Tim. the concern that people have for these animals, they develop a connection with them, and I typically tell them the same thing that you did. Enjoy this opportunity that you have to watch this bird, observe this bird, you know, and it's a pretty, not everybody gets to do that. It's a great opportunity for a bit of education. Jerad Henson: If you let her do her thing and she's successful, one of the coolest things is she'll probably come back next year. Tim Jasinski: Yep, we see that. Actually, there was a hen that we had raised and released in 2014, and she came back to a lady's yard every year with the drake, and she didn't really know it was banded until I asked her, because she got injured somehow, and she injured a wing, and it was injured for too long. And I said, does a bird have a ban on it? And she said, yeah, it's got a ban. I'm like, oh, okay. And so she ended up catching the bird eventually, but the wing was too injured to be repaired. So she had to be humanely euthanized, unfortunately. But she was a bird that was almost nine years old and going to her yard every single spring she knew was her. So it's cool. They do have those patterns. These birds know what they're doing. their instincts, it's really, really awesome. I mean, as you guys know, this is so fascinating with the waterfowl and what they do, and they're much smarter than people give them credit for. Mike Brasher: Yeah, Tim, you were talking about it being illegal for people to interfere, to relocate the nest, to relocate the hen or the eggs or anything of that nature. Talk a little more about that, why that is, and why I was particularly interested in talking with you, because you have, you're a facility that actually has some of those permits. There aren't many or any around here that I'm aware of that do, but talk about the permitting required to be able to do the things that y'all do. Tim Jasinski: Yeah, so we have to have many permits to do what we do here. We have to have permits from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for rehabilitation. Birds are federally protected by the government, and so you cannot own feathers from a blue jay or a nest from a robin, and they're covered by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and they're all protected. So in order to do anything with migratory birds, you have to have a permit. So whether you have to add a leg with a nuisance goose or there's an unmallowed nest on a property that they have to do renovations, they have to take the whole house down. And so that's why we have a lot of permits that are in place. And that protects these birds. They're there for a reason. They're not there to confuse us or to upset us. They're there to protect these birds and to conserve these species. So it's important to follow those rules and not mess with wildlife and its situation. Call somebody. Before you do anything, call an expert, call a nature center, call the Division of Wildlife for your state and get answers before you do anything because most of it's concern. from the people they want to help and most time things don't need help. So it's better to ask before you do. Mike Brasher: So we've talked about the adult hen, the nesting hen. We've talked about the nest. The next part of it is the ducklings whenever they hatch. How many calls do you get about ducklings being in a swimming pool or ducklings being separated and people trying to rescue? How much of that do you hear? Tim Jasinski: And often, like I said, we specialize in waterfowl here, so we get calls from all over the state and even other states about waterfowl and waterfowl concerns. And the two main reasons we admit orphaned mallards every year are the hens hit by a car when she's walking her babies from the nest site to the raised mat, which could be a mile or more away. So in cities, she's got to cross roads and roads and roads, and that's a danger for them. But the second reason we get them is they fall in sewers. and the hens walking across the road and along the curb. The curb can be tall and they kind of walk along the edge of it. And then each duckling drops down into that sewer and then they're stuck. And so I can talk about what to do in those situations to help these birds if you'd like. But those are two main reasons. So we do get a lot of calls about waterfowl and what to do. And typically if you see a duckling or gazing alone, that's not normal. There are certain species like wood ducks that are pretty solitary when they're babies. But, the mom's always there somewhere, but typically with mallards and Canada geese, they're always with their mother or their parents. So, if they're alone, it's definitely a cause for concern and call an expert before you do anything. But, that's typically what we deal with. We get a call very… It should be sooner. Usually, typically it's around April 20th when we get our first mallard calls where they're orphaned or they're found alone. Every year it happens earlier and earlier, but usually around April 20th is the cutoff when I say we should be getting mattels this week. Mike Brasher: Yeah, and that's a difficult thing, difficult phone call to get, especially for me and here, because we don't have a licensed rehab center that can take in waterfowl. They're federally protected species that you're talking about, federally managed. You have to have the right permits, and so if somebody calls in, there's a lone duckling somewhere, I just say, we can't come get it. In some cases, we, well, in every case like that, we hope that the female is around there somewhere. But for people like you and, or yeah, that are in proximity to you, Tim, and in other areas where there are these licensed rehab centers, that's an important role for y'all to play. And then I guess the question is, once you take those birds in, what do y'all do with them? You know, once they grow to the point where they can either I'm guessing you would hold on to them until they fledge, or do you release them before they get to that point? Tim Jasinski: That's a good question. So years ago, we used to keep them until they were about four weeks old and let them go. But because of the band returns, and I monitor these birds after we release them, there was a high mortality rate even after that age, letting them go. And so we changed our protocols in 2019 to keep all the ducks until they can fly. because that way they're more set up for success. We're not the mother duck. We can't do what she can do. We can't make that alarm call when a peregrine's flying over, or an eagle's flying over, or when there's a bobcat stalking in the bushes. We can't teach them that. A lot of the stuff is instinctive with these birds, but a lot of it is taught by that hen, and we can't do that as people. So we do the best we can. Here at the center, like I said, we admit probably 250 year plus mallards a year that we raise here. And we keep them until they're about eight weeks old. And then we let them go at different locations here in Cleveland where there's a good habitat for them. And so that's the easy way about that. But then you have to watch how you mix them because you can't mix ducklings after a week old, they'll kill each other. I used to tell people we get about four rounds of mallards and then those hens, their ducklings didn't survive or something happened with the clutch and so then they'll re-nest. And so typically we see about four rounds of mallards throughout the summer here in Ohio. And so yeah, our goal is to release them back into the wild for their success. And it can be very tricky when you have a bunch of mallards. trial and error and we learn from our mistakes and our goal is to do the best we can here. So that's kind of the short end of it. Mike Brasher: Do you band those birds with the standard US Fish and Wildlife, USGS leg bands? Tim Jasinski: We do, yes. We have a bird banner that we work with that is permitted federally to band waterfowl and other birds that we have projects with. And so, yeah, it's a regular USGS band with the nine numbers. They also get color bands too, which is nice. We were using just the metal bands for a long time, and we started using color bands in 2021, and that changed the game with learning about these birds. Because when they're in one spot, it's hard to see and get all nine numbers on that band. So I can maybe think that's the bird that I had. If you don't get all nine numbers, you're not going to know which bird that is. So we started using color bands with permission from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife in the banding lab. And I use the game with learning what we learn. And there's a lot of cool things I've learned over the years with these color bands. So that makes it much, much better for the project. Mike Brasher: Tim, we have a few other questions for you. We're going to take a break right now. We're going to come back out. I know one of the things that you had reached out to us wanting to talk about were some of the interesting, like, recoveries of banded birds that y'all had released. You've got a pretty neat data set there, and I'm kind of curious to hear about some of the interesting stories there. We don't have… You don't have to get into a lot of details, but we'll come back and we'll talk about some of that. I also have a few questions about Canada geese and, you know, sort of… conflict encounters between those birds and humans, and how much of that y'all do, and then we want to hear about some of the more unique, interesting, weird stories that you've got. I love it. Jerad Henson: I'm interested in some of the common injuries. Mike Brasher: Common injuries. Okay, we'll get to that as well. So, stay with us, folks. We'll be right back after the break. Welcome back, everyone. Mike Brasher here. We are on the phone with Tim Jasinski of the Lake Erie Nature and Science Center. I also have Dr. Jared Henson with me, and we're talking about sort of the time of the year when we're getting calls about ducks and geese doing weird things around our houses and in our neighborhoods. Tim, whenever y'all take birds in and then release them, whether they're injured or orphaned, you will band those birds, as we were talking about, with standard leg bands, and then you keep track of that. And you were telling me that you've got a pretty rich data set of some of the recoveries you've received. What stands out to you regarding any of the recoveries that have you know, you've kept track of, because all this gets reported to the USGS bird banding lab, because you're associated with the banding of those birds, you can go in and you kind of keep track of them, and you may even get notified whenever a recovery comes in. So, tell us about some of the more unique, interesting things that you've learned through that process. Tim Jasinski: Yeah, so there's so many stories to learn about, but the one specific one that really gets me is in 2020, we had a family of geese that were poisoned by a homeowner near a little school that had a pond that had geese, and they loved the geese there, but a lot of people don't like geese, and so they were intentionally poisoned. the whole flock dropped dead except the female. Got some medicine through her and we kept her alive, which I didn't think was going to happen, but we did. At the same time, we had some orphaned goslings that we want to try to find a home for. Now there's Canada geese here because they're better with the parents and we can foster them. It's an easy thing to do. But in essence, we don't raise them, we give them to wild families and they do the hard work and easy work for us. And so we had these seven orphan goslings, and we had one female goose that was in care, and we fixed her up. She was ready to be released. And she was in molt. So as many people don't know, waterfowl molt all their flight feathers in the summer to rejuvenate all those flight feathers. And so they're flightless for about a month. So she was actually flightless. So I said, well, let's try this. I've never released youngsters with an adult that came into rehab because typically, you know, get them back to their where they came from. But in this situation, there was no one else left. So we gave the babies to her and she instantly was protected. I'm like, this actually might work. So we let her go at a private residence here in the area, and this is 2020, so I was doing nothing but being by myself with the pandemic going on. So all I did that summer was watch the ducks and the geese, and I let him go and I never saw him again. I looked at every single pond in the area, I never saw her. So I said, okay, well, she was probably killed by a fox because the homeowner said that there was a fox in the area. And then in early September, early goose season, we got a report to Bander from the banding lab saying one of our geese was taken by a hunter about an hour. Oh, well, they must survive then. I'm like, well, where did they go? So I had suspected that once she was flighted, she'd go back to her breeding grounds, which was in a city called Parma. And that was my suspicion, but I didn't know what would happen. So once we got that report of that bird that was taken by a hunter, I'm like, man, I got to go back to that pond and see. So I went to all the ponds, couldn't find her still. So I went to the original pond where she was rescued from and I didn't see her. I said, okay, she's not here. So we got another report in that group that was seen by someone just at a pond and they reported the band, which you can do at the banding lab. You can report a banded bird. So they got all nine numbers. and reported it. And so I'm like, where are these birds at? So I went back again to that same pond and there was only three geese there. And I just stood there for a second thinking, where can I go? And I heard geese in the distance. So I'm like, I'm gonna wait and see. So they flew over, landed in the parking lot, it was them. I'm like, where have you guys been? Oh my God, this is so crazy. So she brought her kids back. They all looked great. And so that's cool. But even cooler, two years later, so this would have been 2022, I'm doing assessments, wherever I see a banded bird, I pull over, I get my scope out, and I try to get all the numbers. I had two different pairs here in the area where we let them go originally, and they were paired up with their own mate, and it was two of those banded birds that we let go in 2020. So they were raised in this area here in Westlake, and then the mom took them back to Parma and then they stayed there. But when she went to nest again, they don't breed into the year. Then into that second year, they came back to where they were raised, which is really cool because that just shows how important these young birds, they imprint on that territory, they imprint on that area where they live because it's just probably if they survive, it must be a good area to provide you know, young, so then they came back. So that was really cool, because without those bands, we wouldn't have known any of that information. Mike Brasher: That is really neat. I wonder, I wonder, how common is that? Have you talked to other rehabbers? And like, when you have a, I mean, I don't know how many opportunities you would even have for this, but other instances of an adult Canada goose fostering goslings that are not their own. Do you know of anything like that, Tim or Jared? Tim Jasinski: Well, I don't want to say every, most rehabilitators foster their family. It's because they do better in the wild. We foster a lot of animals here, whether they're owls or kestrels or all the different songbirds. They can't count, they don't know how many babies they have. And so we just give them to be and they take care of them. Now, there's certain exceptions, mallards are one of them. she knows her babies and she will not let any new baby into that clutch or she'll kill them. I mean, it's pretty impressive. There was one year I was at a local park that has a beautiful wetland and an eagle flew over and all these mallards from all these groups got into one big cluster. But once the eagle left, they all went back into their own little groups. They do not let mix. So there's very specifics. But with Canada geese, They can be easily fostered, and then you don't have to take care of them. They're not getting used to people. And that's the real rehab setting. Jerad Henson: Yeah, that's really interesting because you mentioned that with mallards. I know with whistling ducks and some of the other cavity nesting ducks, brood amalgamation is actually pretty common where multiple broods will come together if they hatch out about the same time. So it's really interesting to hear that with mallards. Tim Jasinski: But mallards, definitely you can't. Canada geese are very easy. And I just did a podcast with a fellow rehabber that has a podcast and I did one whole session on fostering Canada geese because it's not as easy as just giving them the babies. There's a lot of things involved with it to make it successful. But typically most of the waterfowl we see here in Ohio, we see Canada geese, mallards, hooded merganders and wood ducks are the main waterfowl species babies we see here in our state, at least in the Cleveland area. Black-bellied whistling ducks are actually starting to come into Ohio and breed. There's one pair that's come back two times now this year and raised a brood real late, but they did it. So that's really interesting. But for the most part, we don't have any other breeding in the area. Mike Brasher: You know, I was wondering about black bellies, if you had any encounters with them. Do you get calls from people, I suspect you do, saying, hey, there's this weird duck that I've never seen before. What is it? How often do you get that, Tim? Tim Jasinski: Very often. And actually, we have specialized swim tanks designed for diving birds here. So we have more in care than dabblers. So when we get a storm front here, we're right on Lake Erie. I mean, we're in Huntington Reservation, which is right on Lake Erie. And so when you get a strong weather pattern, diving loons, grebes, will land in parking lots or roads, mistaking it for open water. And once they're on land, they cannot get into the air from the land. So they're literally a sitting duck there in the road. So we get a lot of calls about white-winged scoters, or red-breasted mergansers, or the scop, or other things like that. And we do get calls about that often. I usually have people send a photo to make sure it's not a domestic, since we don't take domestics here. But they'll say, we got a weird duck and its legs are broken. And I'm like, well, let me see a photo because it could be a diver. And it turns out it'll be a lesser scop or something like that. So we do get calls often. heavy weather patterns up here. So we had a big rainstorm, a good amount of Horton Greaves come down and they were brought to us for care and we stabilized them and got them back onto the lake. So yeah, that's what happened. Mike Brasher: So you obviously do a fair bit of rescue. How much do you get involved in, how many calls do you get? where people have a problematic goose. It's a goose that's attacking kids or that's preventing people from getting into a business or something of that nature. How many of those calls do you get and what do you do with them? Tim Jasinski: A lot. It is. And, you know, it's my favorite bird of all time is a Canada goose. I've loved them since I was little. They're a very misunderstood bird, but you get the number one thing. Two things you get with people with Canada geese, they poop too much and they're mean. I tell people they're not mean, they're good parents. There's a huge difference in August, October, November. They don't bother people. They just do their thing and they don't care about people. But typically, in the spring, the gan is a real protective of that nest and that hen, and they're going to protect that, their territory. And unfortunately, it's very commonly around buildings, hospitals, malls. Every Home Depot has a goose nest and I think here in Cleveland, And so there's a couple of reasons why that is. I think one is that we're taking their habitat away. Number two is their numbers are increasing. And three, there's the companies out there now that are harassing the geese to mitigate goose issues. And so I think this is just a speculation and I want to see what you guys think about this, but I think that they are evolving like ducks do where they nest farther away from water and then walk their babies back where typically And 10 years ago, most goose nests are next to the pond. They're right next to the water. And they're really only going to back up and get away from that nest if it's a coyote. Other than that, that gander is going to do a pretty good job of keeping raccoons away and mink and other animals. because these dog companies now that are all over, they're nesting farther away from water and taking their babies back to the pond after they hatch. So I think that's one issue is they're nesting near buildings. I tell people just don't bother. They typically don't attack physically. You might have one ganner that's really, really defensive. And you can put up snow fencing around the nest and that kind of helps get that goose, that smorkel. And that tends to work pretty well. I've learned that from the Ohio Division of Wildlife. I got friends up there that get a lot of calls about this. And so that's one thing they recommend is putting up that snow fencing around to kind of give her a little bit of cushion where you won't be able to get up that close to the nest. But it is tricky. It is. You don't want geese attacking people and knocking people down, but that's a very rare I mean, you will have a goose run at you and hiss. But I've just learned they don't really connect with you. They just go back to what they were doing. So every situation is different. So that's why we tell people to call us first and we can walk you through your scenario. But yeah, that's definitely more of a concern more and more every year. Mike Brasher: And Tim, one of the other things that's in the news right now and has been for the past two years and it's top of mind, maybe that's why I'm going to ask you this question is avian influenza. How has that changed any of what y'all do? Whether it's people coming to the center or fielding calls from people about whether this is an issue or, I mean, and has it, has it ramped up any concerns that people are bringing to you? Tim Jasinski: Absolutely. And it's, I, I, I, It's been very frustrating and it's very unfortunate. And actually in 2022, early on, we had the first case of H5N1, HVI bird flu here in Ohio. We didn't know it. We had a Canada goose come in with all the symptoms, didn't know what it was. The bird died the next day. But then once we started learning from it, yeah, we had put all procedures in place and it's been a real nightmare for us rehabilitators since then. And as you know, it's a public, so it's more common in the fall and early winter, winter through the early spring, and then it kind of dies down, isn't around as much April through August, September, but then it kind of comes back. And it's been affecting us very, very heavily. And so when we get calls about goose or duck that might be in need, we have the video, very specific questions like, does it have eye discharges, neurological, Is it falling over? Are there other birds dead in the area? Because we had an issue in Parma, actually, in 2022, where up to 30 or 40 Canada geese died within a week or two. And they were flying into buildings, and it was a whole thing. And so it's been a nightmare, honestly, because we don't want to risk the other animals we have in care, and also we don't want to risk our education birds here. But what we did is we got down as a team and talked about it, talked with our vets and said, what can we do? We specialize in waterfowl. What can we do to still accept these birds, but be safe? So we set up a quarantine area where we use full PPE, foot baths, and we quarantine any bird that's a suspect for it. We don't take any bird that is exhibiting symptoms of it. So we'll have them send videos and photos. And if not, if it's a bird that we won't accept, we'll have them call the Ohio Division of Wildlife or your local animal control, and they can euthanize that bird and end its suffering. But it's been tricky. So yeah, it's a… It's one thing we definitely got to be careful about. And it is a problem. And we're just being really careful. And I think that's one reason why we're getting so many birds now over the last year or two, because other centers are not taking any waterfowl. So we're the only one in two hours of Cleveland that are emitting waterfowl anymore. Jerad Henson: Yeah, I think that's a really important topic. And I think that also loops back to our conversation we had kind of starting off earlier about why you shouldn't feed wild birds. Right. you group them together, you congregate them, and you make a system that will spread disease. Tim Jasinski: Exactly. And we see that with squirrels. People call and say, I got these squirrels with mange. And I was like, were you feeding squirrels? No, but I put nuts out and I put apples out. And I said, well, that's… Again, they don't need us. We feed because it's fun for us, but these animals don't need our food. And when you're bringing animals more in concentration than it would naturally be, it's going to cause issues. And one thing I forgot to mention too, as rehabilitators, we are often the first response to disaster with water birds or any other animals, because we're going to get the calls first, hey, there's a bunch of dead geese or a bunch of dead ducks, what's going on? And then we say, oh, geez, I don't know, let's figure this out. We contact the state, the state gets involved, and it's the first ones to know about this. And so that's how a lot of the you know, the Ohio division, while they found out about the bird flu in the state is, you know, they were testing birds, you know, with through hunting season, but also, you know, we called and said, Hey, there's a bunch of dead geese over here. And then they get out and they test them and they found out they were positive. So it, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, Rehabbers are more than just caring for the wildlife. We are in it for conservation as well. Just like with Ducks Unlimited, you know, it's all about conservation of wetlands and getting habitat for not just waterfowl, but other animals. We have that same mindset as rehabilitators. So, you know, we're not hugging and kissing baby animals. We're in it to help these animals and get them back out there in the wild where they can be, you know, fixed up and naturally where they, so it's, yeah, there's a lot that's involved with this. And you're right, it's just the more concentration, the more issues you have. Mike Brasher: Tim, we're going to start wrapping up here in just a few minutes. One of the things I want to ask you as we begin that is for you to reflect on some and share some of the more interesting stories you've talked about. The Canada goose that orphaned the goslings and came back. That's a really cool story. What are some of the other more memorable experiences and stories that you tell, whether related to waterfowl or any of the other animals that you take in? Tim Jasinski: It's hard to cram it into a small little bit of time, but there's two that I can think of offhand. There's two mallards that are banded and they're always together. Two drakes, they're always together. I never see them apart. They leave and they come and go as they want, of course, but they're always together. So you often think of waterfowl as not having bothers or they're just a duck in a group and they don't stick together. But I've really found that Even within groups of ducklings that you let, they stay with their own little groups and they'll mingle with other ducks, but they stay with their own groups. Birds are always together. And so whenever I see one, I always see the other. And that's interesting. But the main thing that I think I want to say is we had a bird banner that used to ban all of our birds before we let them go here. And he had since passed away in 2021. kind of hesitant to ban waterfowl because the ducks are stupid, I don't want to ban these. I'm like, they're such cool birds, let's ban them. So we banned a bunch of them and we let them go. And he said, I told him that they're going to raise up a razor on ducklings eventually one day. He said, they don't survive once you let them go. And I said, what do you mean? He said, rehab birds don't survive after you let them go. And I said, well, I'll prove you wrong. And so it took a couple of years, but I found a banded hen at one of our release locations and she had ducklings with her. I had band numbers. So I spent hours getting the band numbers on this bird. And she was one of us to go with the band in 2014. And so two years later, I'm out there looking at ducks and I saw that. And so I called him, I said, hey man, I did it, I proved it to you. This proves that Our rehabilitation works. We want these birds wild. We want them scared of people. That's our goal. And so we did everything. That hen was released. She survived that winter. And then she bred, went through the incubation. And that's so important just that our rehabilitation worked. And that bird is a wild bird. She was scared of people. She was teaching those ducklings what to do. And that's so amazing to me. And so that's one thing that I wanted to say is that that's just so impressive to me. Mike Brasher: Okay, I do have one final question. I can't conclude this episode without asking this, and I suspect you get a call, maybe multiple calls, every spring, maybe into the summer, about multiple Drakes that are chasing a hen, beating up a hen. They're going to drown it. What do you say? What's your response to that? Tim Jasinski: My response is that's nature. That's what they do. That's how they breed. That's just what waterfowl do. That's what ducks do. It may seem mean to us, but that's just how they rule out who the strongest is, who the most fit is. Sometimes they do drown, and it's not our job to stop nature. If it's a dog or cat, absolutely, that's man-made and we should stop that. But If it's nature, let nature do its thing. It may be sad, but just walk away. That's not something we should interfere with because that's what that's due. We do get calls about that a lot. Just leave them alone. Mike Brasher: Yeah, and to clarify, people that may not know what we're talking about there, but especially among, well, all ducks will do this. It's particularly, I guess, notable among urban mallards. I think you see it a lot. Jerad Henson: Urban mallards, pintails and wood ducks, I think it's pretty common as well. Mike Brasher: Really? Okay. Where groups of males will kind of gang up and try to chase a female and, and engage in what are called forced copulations. Rape flights is another sort of cruder description of that. And yeah, that is one of the additional reproductive strategies that ducks employ. And sometimes in urban settings, you get to see it. Jerad Henson: Yep, and what's interesting to note is what you don't see is that they have internal anatomy that combats that. The female's anatomy is not super complementary of that type of system, so it only works out when she agrees. Mike Brasher: That's a topic for another discussion, but we'll have that one day. So, Jared, any final questions? Jerad Henson: I'm just going to ask, I did want to know, what's like the weirdest injury you've had come in? Tim Jasinski: So, that's a good question. And this happened three times in one week now. And we had a red-shouldered hawk call. The guy said it was in his yard. It was missing a wing. Missing a wing? I'm like, what? So, it's just standing in my yard and missing its wing completely. I'm like, Okay, that's not good, obviously. That brood needs to be euthanized. You can't fix that. And then I had a lady bring a wood duck hen in the other day. I got a duck that's nesting in a flowerpot. My apportionment, okay, this is perfect timing. This is what they do. Do you see some fluff, some down? She said, no. She moves from one part of the pot to the other. I'm like, send me a photo. That doesn't sound like a normal mallard hen nesting in a flowerpot. Sent a photo, and it was a female wood duck, and you could see the left wing was completely missing. And I said, okay, that's weird. In two, in one week? Okay, so what was the snare? She said, I don't know, it just fell out of the sky. And I said, okay, where are you located? She's right by the airport. I said, ugh. So that makes sense. So we had a peregrine a couple of years ago, same thing, was found near the airport, missing a wing. So my only conclusion is it had to have been severed by an airplane. Whether it got hit by one of the wings or something, that's the only thing that makes sense. I mean, they hit power lines. That's one reason why we get swans, is they hit power lines, but to completely sever some pretty traumatic, and this wood duck had had a lot of injuries to her. And it just made sense that they were right by the airport, right where that Hawk guy was. So, yeah, it happens. And so that's probably the weirdest injuries we see. Their wing is severed from an airplane. But most of the injuries we see with waterfowl are fishing line injuries, fishing gear stuck in their beaks or their wing or their feet, or collisions hit by cars are the two main reasons why we admit waterfowl that aren't orphans. Mike Brasher: And poisoning on occasion, it sounds like either intentional, that's really unfortunate, but I would imagine accidental as well. Tim Jasinski: Yep. And when the geese are… There's the corn crops. In Ohio, we got a lot of corn that grows here. And so when they get the corn that's spillage in the fields, that gets wet and moldy. We often get geese with impacted crops because they get The mold in there creates issues in their crop and they can't digest it. So their crop just fills and fills and fills and fills and they get really sick and they have to have surgery to fix that. And that's from corn that's moldy. So again, back to the no feeding, no bread, no corn. It's not good for them and it can cause a lot of issues. Mike Brasher: So Tim, I guess to close things out, you're in Bay Village, Ohio. Is that a suburb of Cleveland? Do I remember right? Tim Jasinski: Yep, we're just 15 minutes west of Cleveland, right on the lakes. We're just west of downtown Cleveland. Mike Brasher: And you told me that you do take in birds from rather far distances. Talk a little about that. If people are listening to this and let's say they're in Indiana or Kentucky or something and they're Pennsylvania. Where can they find information about your facility and whether you would be a candidate for helping them out if they have an issue? Tim Jasinski: Yeah, we're always welcome for questions. We want people to call us. It doesn't matter what state, we're here to help. And, you know, just the word got out that we know what we're doing with waterfowl and specifically American woodcock. We've actually educated people all over the country about the care for those birds. because we get a lot and we have a really, really good success rate with them. So it's just word of mouth when one rehabber to another and then other facilities aren't set up for waterfowl like we are. We're actually going to be in a renovation here shortly where we're actually designing all of our waterfowl ponds for geese and ducks and herons and grebes and all that stuff. And I'm really excited about it. So that's just going to up the game in waterfowl rehab here. But, we have specialized swim tanks and specialized care and knowledge here at our center. So, always call us. I had a woman call a couple of years ago about a fawn, and once it's fawn, it turns out it was a mule deer in Colorado. She's got her number, the mom's there, all that stuff. Always call us, you know, that's what we're here for. I don't mind helping and, you know, every situation is different. So, you know, we can often refer someone to a rehabilitator that's closer, so we have all the knowledge. We can say, okay, you're in Missouri. Okay, here is a rehabilitator. Call them. They can refer you to what to do or who's closer to you. So, always call us and we'd be happy to help. Jerad Henson: I was just gonna say, Tim, what's the best way to find your contact information? Tim Jasinski: You can go to our website, it's www.lensc.org, or just call the main phone number, and that's 440-871-2900. And we'd be happy to call. We're here nine to four every day, except major holidays. Doesn't matter what weather it is, doesn't matter what holiday it is, the animals need to be cared for. So we're always here. So if you don't get ahold of us, leave a message on our voicemail and we will call you back and see what your situation is. Mike Brasher: This is great information. I'm going to write your number down and put it on a little post-it note on my desk. And whenever I get a call and I can't answer it, I'm going to send them to you. Yeah, absolutely. Tim Jasinski: I love it. I love the call. I just love helping people, you know, because, you know, these people want to help, you know, and so, you know, if you have the expertise, you know, if we, someone calls about an Osprey, it's okay. Here's another raptor center. They can deal with that. They have more expertise with that species, but we can always refer someone if it's an answer that we don't know. So always call us. It's better to call first. Mike Brasher: Jared, thank you for joining us here on this episode. It's been great to have you. Jerad Henson: Thanks, Mike, for having me. Tim, it was wonderful talking with you. Mike Brasher: Tim Jasinski with Lake Erie Nature and Science Center. Great to have you on with us. So, appreciate it, Tim. Yeah, thanks for having me. This is great. A very special thanks to our guest today, Tim Jasinski with Lake Erie Nature and Science Center in Bay Village, Ohio. We greatly appreciate him joining us and sharing some of the neat stories about the work that they do. As always, we thank our producer, Chris Isaac, for the great work that he does, and to you, the listener, we thank you for your time and support of the podcast and for your commitment to wetlands and waterfowl conservation.