Latest / In the Valley of Giants / Chasing Truth: Showing You the Story They Won't | Corey Gil-Shuster | ITVOG Ep. 27

Transcript

Chasing Truth: Showing You the Story They Won't | Corey Gil-Shuster | ITVOG Ep. 27 · In the Valley of Giants

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And everyone I was talking to for 45 minutes suddenly turned
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on me and said they were going to beat the crap out of me.
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Really. Oh, yeah, and it got and
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everyone said you have to leave. This will get violent terms of
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kindness. Not I I'd actually put them
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before Jews in that sense. It's, you know, it's it's
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showing us doing hateful things to them every day.
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Do we? I just.
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I don't know. That's the thing.
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Can you understand someone that would make the mistake and think
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that there's a genocidal word in Gaza?
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Yes and no. SO.
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The media lies. Everyone knows that.
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So the question is, is Israel committing genocide, ethnic
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cleansing? Are Arabs just incredibly
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violent and want to destroy the Jewish people?
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And we're defending ourselves. We know what the news outlets
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say. What do the people say?
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Corey Gill Schuster is on the ground in Arab villages and in
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Tel Aviv and Yerushalayim trying to figure out what do people
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actually think. No filters, no priming, actual
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real world conversations. We had him here today to talk
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about his experiences. We flipped the camera and the
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mic around. It was great to learn from him
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what he thinks about if there's genocide or not, what's actually
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going on the ground. If there's a way to have actual
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peace. And how to get there.
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We hope you enjoy and stay tuned for the very end.
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We have a little. Surprise for you, Cory
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Gilshruster. Thank you so much for coming on
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the show today. Thank you for having me.
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Yeah, so it, it's so funny. I think maybe about 11 years ago
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or something like that, you did a a video that that burned in my
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brain. I've only seen it once, but I
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clearly remember what you did. You were asking religious Jews
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about a Gemara. Talmudic passengers, I believe
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appears in Bub Mitzi and a few other places of the Talmud about
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Gentiles not being Adam, Gentiles not being man.
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And I remember I think the last person you asked was Rabbi
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Breidowitz, and I loved his answer.
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A hero, yeah. And he didn't even think it
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could just seem so automatic. But you do amazing work.
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And so ever since then. Found him completely randomly.
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Really. Yes, I did not mean to go to a
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rabbi. I meant to find students
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interesting and see what they thought.
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And there was no one there. It was Friday, right?
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What do I know? I'm not religious.
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OK, So yeah. And we just knocked on a door
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and you happened to be there. OK, fantastic, fantastic.
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So I'm, I'm excited to talk to you about a whole bunch of
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different topics today. What you're most famous for is
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of course, the ask project. And because of that, you're
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going to all different sorts of places.
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So the first question I've I've always had is do you ever get
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scared going to Ramallah and all of these?
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Oh yeah, every time, every time, every time I get scared I'm
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going to get stuck there because a checkpoint will be closed.
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I get scared going in that the Israeli, the IDF will stop the
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bus or taxi I'm in. I get mostly scared, meaning I
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can't get in even though it's never happened.
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Actually I get more scared that I'll be recognized and young
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people who think I am there to do something devious.
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So in in in Muslim circles, the Jews are devious.
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So I'm there to destroy their narrative or destroy their
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culture or something that someone will recognize me and
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get his friends together and then come beat me up or stab me.
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It hasn't happened. I've actually been threatened
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physically by more Jews than Palestinians.
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Really. Yes, I gladly talk about it
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'cause it annoys me. Religious Jews.
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Sorry, religious Jews, I was in bit shimmish.
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Oh, not bit shimmish. And there is a rumor going
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around 'cause I've heard it a few times that I am a Messianic
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Jew. And then I am asking for you.
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No, I am an atheist. Total atheist and my whole thing
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and my whole thing is I'm definitely, I barely buy into my
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own religion. I'm not buying into that.
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That makes no sense to me. No offense to Christians.
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Christians are lovely people. That is not, it's not anything
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anti Christian or anti Muslim. I'm not.
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I I love my culture and I love my history and just don't
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believe. So this guy ran out of a
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building and A and a grown man like in his 30s.
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This isn't a kid. And everyone I was talking to
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for 45 minutes suddenly turned on me and said they were going
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to beat the crap out of me. Really.
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Oh yeah. And it got and everyone said you
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have to leave. This will get violent.
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How did they recognize you? I think there's something going
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around because one of my first videos, which I actually didn't
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even want to do, was What Do Jews Think of Jesus?
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But I kept getting it from Christians, obviously.
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And so I started asking random Jews what do they think of
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Jesus? And it became actually the most
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watched video I have by far. And I actually, I ignored it
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because I just thought, who cares?
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Like, what does that matter? But Christians want to know.
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And so I, I think, and there's a couple that I've tried to kind
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of reproduce to get views that have to do with Jesus.
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So I think that's where it came from.
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They think that I'm like out on some messianic pilgrimage.
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I am not. Would you say that these Jews
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that accosted you, were they, were they ultra Orthodox?
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Yeah. Or 80 looks like you.
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So then how? How would they have seen your
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content? I don't know.
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That's I would like to know because that's somebody brought
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up that supposedly don't have what's up, Supposedly don't.
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I don't know, don't know because it happened to me.
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I went to the religious speech in Tel Aviv because I needed
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more because I have questions. I separated them into religious
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questions, questions for everybody who's Jewish,
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questions for Israelis, which usually means Jews.
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So I separated someone if I need religious questions, like do we
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do animal sacrifices still? It's a common question I get.
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I still haven't, I've finished it.
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I still haven't edited it yet, but so I went to the religious
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beach and there somebody said, someone went on the loudspeaker
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who worked there and said don't answer his questions.
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He's a Messianic Jew. And I'm like, what are we
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talking about? I didn't understand what was
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going. And every time I go, I'm usually
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with somebody who's religious, like that friend who came with
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me today because I don't understand yeshiva talk.
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I didn't go to I went to a religious school, but it wasn't
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like yeshiva when I was a kid. So someone has to translate
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yeshiva to me sometime because I'm like, you got to put it in
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Hebrew for me to understand. So I usually bring somebody
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who's religious and I always feel bad for them because then
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they think that they're like a Messianic Jew and people get
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very angry. Really.
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Very, very violently angry. Then other times really not.
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It was. I don't only be religious, but
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it has happened a couple of times.
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Other times it's because I'm interpreted as a left wing, anti
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Israel, anti Zionist person. That happens to me as well.
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Are you a left wing anti Israel? I'm leftish.
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Let me put it this way. I vote it leftish.
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I actually haven't voted left in a while, so really I still claim
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I vote left. But when people talk about
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lefties, I get very like, I'm always the person who's getting
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mad for the underdog, even if I'm not that.
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So I will still defend leftists even though there's none left in
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this country. Are you anti Zionist?
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No. And that is the anti Zionist.
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I, I at first, I think years ago I used to be a little bit more
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understanding and now I'm like, wait a second.
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Like why is it only Zionism out of all the nationalisms in the
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world is the one to be criticized?
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It has a word, I mean because there's a word Zionism there.
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It has a word anti Zionism. But why isn't there an anti
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Pakistanism? Why isn't there anti Indian
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nationalism? And of course there are craziest
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and extremists and all those that's, you know, meaning the
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opposite side, the pro side. But that's about extremism on
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either side. So no, I'm not an anti Zionist
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and I will become a huge Zionist on an outside of the Israel and
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to actual regular Israelis. I am always like kind of playing
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it like I'm not very Zionist. That's interesting.
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But that's on purpose because I want them to explain themselves
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well. I'm doing that.
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For the viewer. No, I hear you.
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Well you said something that really, really bothers me.
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Sure, which is that I am. I don't know if you're watching
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this, you're still wrong, but I'd like to believe that of all
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nations, the Jewish nation is one that's most anti dogmatic.
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If you look at the, and our Jewish writings are just the
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Talmud itself, it is so incredibly long and it's long
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and it's not, it's not winded. It's it's, it's quite
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meticulous. Every argument is fleshed out,
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be it philosophical or be it, you know, mitzvah, like action,
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actions that we have to do, etcetera, etcetera.
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So I would hope that the nation in general would be what I think
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There's dogma everywhere but religious Jews, of course.
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That's where we're going to have the least amount of of dogma.
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So when you tell me that you've been.
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I would say some look I get more intelligent and thoughtful
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answers true from people who are ultra orthodox generally I'd say
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in proportion to their to numbers.
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But I also get a lot of dogma from people as well.
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Well, I'm sure no that for sure there's dogma.
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If there was no dogma, then in my humble opinion, you'd be the
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perfect nation. But we're clearly not I.
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Think it's just, I think it's human nature.
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Yeah, I agree. It's just it's complicated.
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Things are complex. It's easy.
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Yeah, especially if it's it's how you find meaning and
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purpose. Like I can blindly believe
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something and never question it. But that is my identity, right.
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So there there's definitely gains, I guess is one way to put
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it, of having a Yeah, absolutely.
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So maybe let me dig a little bit more into that.
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Would you find from from the people that you have interviewed
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in general, it doesn't matter Palestinian or Israeli, Jewish,
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Christian, Muslim, What group would you say has the least
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amount of dogma you're? Going to have to define dogma
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though in this case because I have a definite answer, but I
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don't know if that's what you mean.
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Sure. How about thoughtlessness?
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Which therefore encourages the blind following of beliefs which
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lead to not having an open conversation.
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Just This is why I believe. Why?
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Because I believe it. Hard.
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OK, So I'd say in your definition, I would say the Jews
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are probably the the least dogmatic in that sense.
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OK, great. In a sense, I my my heroes of my
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story, I know I'm about to contradict myself by saying I'm
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not a Christian. The Christians of this land are
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the most you can meaning they say something I can give her a
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bottle of, but doesn't Jesus say we're supposed to be kind to
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each other? And they'll go, yeah, you're
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right. Yeah.
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So in terms of kindness, not I I'd actually put them before
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Jews in that sense, meaning they're taught to be kind.
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Now, do they actually act kind? I don't know that.
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I don't know. They've been kind to me in a
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sense. But I think that's, I actually,
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I don't think that has to do with Christianity because that
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certainly doesn't pan out in European Christianity in how
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they how they've treated Jews in the past today.
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And I think that's being a minority.
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They're one or 2% of the population both in the West Bank
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and in Israel. And I think they feel they'll
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get screwed by everybody. That OK, but that's not a depth
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thing. No, it isn't.
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So I don't know, because I don't live with them.
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So I get more thoughtfulness, a lot more thoughtfulness from
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Jews. But sometimes that
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thoughtfulness is kind of an ugly thoughtfulness, meaning the
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dominant, OK, just a small example, the dominant narrative
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of younger people, meaning, I'd say, I don't know, actually, 20
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year olds, but let's say, you know, the 30 year olds. 40 year
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olds is that this is all Israel and the Arabs very welcome to
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stay absolutely fine. We just have to control.
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So the Arabs can't be Prime Minister or minister of of
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defense, but they could do anything else.
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And I always say, yeah, but that's not a real democracy,
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'cause I am brainwashed. I'm a Canadian, I am brainwashed
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that inequality. And so I'm saying that's not
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true equality. That's sort of equality.
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That's actually like Demi status for the Muslims.
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Right. Treating them better because we
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actually do treat people better. I agree because I've seen how
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Muslims talk and how they treat each other.
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I I think we are better, but it's still a kind of a Demi
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status. But is that dogmatic or is just
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that or just that inequality? I think that's just inequality.
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I don't know, maybe I'm mixing things up, but these are just
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the things I notice. I don't know that's what you
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mean. But I but I always ask.
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So one of my goals here is to see how deep is a certain
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belief. And so I always pull, push back
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on something and then you can see people say, well, maybe,
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maybe, you know, to me, yeah, that shows lack of dogmatism,
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right? So I would say the Muslims are
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the most dogmatic by far. Palestinians Muslims, by far
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most dogmatic. But even with them, sometimes I
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get, you know, maybe maybe they're open to other ideas.
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It could be they're just saying that because they don't know
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what else to say. Could be, I don't know.
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I'd give them the benefit of enough for at least that part.
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I think dogma is a sickness. It's a mind virus and it it just
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which, which culture has it the most of the least is the
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question. And it it sounds from what
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you're saying that that Judaism has it a lot less.
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Well, I'm also I'm, I'm brainwashed by Judaism too
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because I'm here, so I understand it better.
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Why does that mean you're brainwashed?
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I mean, you seem. Because we're all brain.
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Everyone's brainwashed. Well, OK, so that's OK.
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We all have our advices. Yeah.
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No, but I'm look, in terms of wanting to root for the
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religious Jew team, you know, you're an atheist.
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So it you know I don't, I don't see you running to to.
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You know, but I want to believe the best of everybody.
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Yeah, but that would apply to Palestinians as well.
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Yeah, right. But and yet still you come to
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the conclusion that. Right, that we're less not a big
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fan of how they speak about us. So, so we'll talk about that a
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little bit more in a second, but just one more question on that.
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In terms of religious Jews and non religious Jews, who do you
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find more thoughtful? I don't know, I want to say
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actually non religious Jews, but a very specific in particular
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demographic, like people, sort of the people of like older
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Ashkenazi, the people who came from the original founders of
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the state. There's a lot of thought put
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into everything, even if they are and they are anti religious.
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And you know, my, my, well, nobody does it anymore.
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But I remember the time where people would see you, somebody
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old Ashkenazi and say, well, what's with the keeper?
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Why are you wearing the keeper? What do you need to do that?
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Because they felt like they're liberated, whatever, but they
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still have thoughtfulness in the terms of how they see society
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and live and let live and that sort of thing.
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So that's kind of my instinct. And then with religious people,
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well, I don't know because I don't ask.
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Oh no, I have asked. Actually, I asked already.
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Does it bother you that I'm an atheist?
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And almost everybody said yes. Is that is that a reflection
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again of that? Is that not being open or is
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that just? Is that a reflection of
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dogmatism? I don't know.
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I don't know because it came from a guy who's already, but
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who grew up in New Zealand and he said, you know, I don't care
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if you're that you're atheist. I I don't think anyone or very,
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I don't think very many people, ultra orthodox people would care
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that you're an atheist. And so I said, let's ask.
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But what do you mean by care? They said it's sad for them and
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it bothers them. What is it?
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What do you mean bothers them I. Don't know, I didn't get into
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all the details. I asked them to explain, but you
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know, not everyone can explain on the spot, which is, you know,
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I'm on the spot right now. I'm not sure if I can explain,
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but it's still, you know, does it when you're of a certain
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group, it would be similar if somebody says to you, wow, you
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don't believe in Jesus. Wow, that's so bad.
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And you're like looking at them going, no, it's OK.
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Like it's not a. I've had that happen to me too.
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What? What can we can we do a little
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experiment right now? Yeah.
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Go. OK, You tell me if this is
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dogma. OK, so if you were to ask me
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that question, does it bother me that you're an atheist?
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It does bother me. But the reason why it bothers me
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is because of kind of things that you said before that I love
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you as a person and I want you to be the happiest you can be.
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And I want you to be the best you can be.
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And so I just would wish that that your life was elevated
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more. It doesn't bother me like you've
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affronted me in some way. It's.
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Maybe that's what they meant. And when you watch the.
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Video It's been a couple of years.
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That's fine. But would you, would you
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classify that view as dogmatic a little bit?
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OK, Can I, can I ask you why? Yeah, because if you have a
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child who says I'm gay or I'm an atheist or I, whatever is
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different than what you would expect, how much will you accept
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them? And would it be just like, I'm
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not happy, but yeah, I guess I have to accept you.
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I know people have gone much worse than that.
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Like I know this guy who was became a woman with friends and
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the whole thing and his father would not see him, came from
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Khabad, would not on his deathbed, wouldn't see him.
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And that to me, is just cruel. Yeah, No, I don't.
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Get it now? I don't get trans either, so
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it's not like I'm saying I don't get a lot of things.
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But you know, who am I to judge? Well, well, I'm, I'm, I'm
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focusing more on the, the reason for the emotion.
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Like let's say like, so I'm litfish.
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OK, so I'm a litfach. So let's say my son wanted to
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become a hussard. So that's kind of leaving my
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philosophical path that I've made before myself.
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So I would hope that if he were to do that, I would be, I
17:12
respect the fact that you choose another philosophical fact, even
17:15
though if I don't necessarily understand it as much.
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But this one, the response that I'm having, it's not because
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like, you can't be different than me.
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I don't mind people being different than me.
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But if I believe that this is the best for people because of
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research that I've done and philosophical conclusions that
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I've come to, you know, through rigorous study and my own
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reflection, I'm curious if you'd still consider that dogmatic.
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You can. You can think whatever you wish.
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It's a loose version of dogma, but yeah, it's a little, I don't
17:48
know. I mean, look, we all judge
17:49
anyways. I mean, I, I don't relate to, I
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have a son, 26 into arts. I can't relate.
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I don't understand it, but you know, we all judge a little bit.
18:02
No, it's OK. And by the way, I'm understand
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it. I'm OK if you, if you label me
18:05
dogmatic, that's that's all right.
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I just wanted to see how you would respond.
18:08
Loosely meaning not. Not like I wouldn't call that
18:12
typical dogma. But.
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It's yeah, but we all do that like I do that too, so I'm not,
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you know? Yeah, but I'm criticizing.
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But I'm prepared to be the worst guy in the room.
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No, I'll tell you. OK, OK, no, this is not me being
18:23
polite. I'm Canadian but I OK not
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polite. All right.
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I don't. I think those things are, I
18:28
don't think you can be Canadian and not polite, but whatever.
18:30
I say sorry, but sometimes I say it in a really sarcastic way.
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I was. OK.
18:35
So back to you being concerned being in Palestinian areas, but
18:39
yet you said that you had the most threat that one, that one
18:43
particular entrance. Yeah, so I've been threatened by
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Muslims online mostly when I started this, OK.
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And I have a mouth on online like I, I, I get really vicious
18:53
and mean. And I was threatened once in
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Ramallah by a guy who got very uncomfortable by cause from a
19:02
Palestinian perspective, they don't understand why we're even
19:05
asking these kind of questions. It wasn't even such a big
19:07
question. I don't even remember what the
19:09
question was. But they feel that the Israelis
19:12
will come in and arrest them at any moment.
19:14
If not, the Palestinian Authority will come in and
19:16
arrest them at any moment. And it and their father, if they
19:19
saw it, that's a big thing. If their father saw something
19:23
and it doesn't agree with their family politics, oh, they're in
19:26
trouble. Trouble.
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It's huge. Family name is big.
19:30
So he said erase it. And I said I will.
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And I actually didn't know how to erase it on the camera.
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And he said, I'm gonna break your camera if you don't erase
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it now. And how I got out of it was
19:40
stupidly, I took the SD card out, put it in my pocket and
19:43
said it's dumb. And for some reason he accepted
19:46
that. I don't get why.
19:48
Did you ever post that video? I did.
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I hate his face. OK, OK, interesting.
19:53
He had a good answer. OK, fair enough.
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But actually, normally I don't actually it's a thing where
19:58
somebody says Take Me Out. But he was such an an awful
20:01
human being and like, no, I'm not putting up with that.
20:04
I. Appreciate you catching
20:05
yourself. But.
20:06
I felt like you wanted to say maybe something else.
20:08
Oh yes, I did. Sorry, yes.
20:10
OK, OK, so so but in general though you are more
20:14
uncomfortable there, you do feel more?
20:16
Yeah, I I as soon as I cross over the checkpoint I'm like,
20:19
someone could come help me if something went wrong.
20:21
Does anyone ever come with you? Do you have a security team?
20:24
No, no security team. It's me.
20:25
So some people come because they just want to come like not
20:28
Israelis. I won't take Israelis with me
20:30
because. So you've been in Ramallah like
20:33
hundreds of tons and nothing's happened to you?
20:35
Nope, nothing happened there. Now I would not advise everyone
20:38
to go in because I get people to say oh, take me because they're
20:40
really interested. And I get people who are
20:41
religious who say the same thing.
20:43
And I like, don't do that, don't I?
20:45
First of all, I won't take responsibility for them.
20:47
We have a drive through an Arab area.
20:48
Yeah. Because anywhere.
20:51
Oh yeah. Yeah.
20:51
Because now. Because that's like small
20:53
potatoes for you. So it depends where it is so I
20:56
don't get nervous within Israel, meaning Israel.
21:00
Sorry, let me define my my boundaries here.
21:03
Israel in the Green Line. I don't feel nervous at all in
21:07
Arab areas now. OK, I say nervous at all,
21:10
however. So one of the questions I'm
21:12
asking Arab Israelis is do you support?
21:16
I don't remember what the question is.
21:17
Something about gay people, gays and trans.
21:20
And I'm afraid someone's going to hit me because that because
21:22
that's so taboo in their society.
21:24
Yeah, I saw that. You think it's.
21:25
Oh, it gets worse. I've been told by my my
21:28
translator, I made I pulled a joke on her and I sent her a
21:31
whole list of questions which were only about gays and trans,
21:34
just because I think it's funny. And she was like, no, no, I
21:37
can't. It's I can ask.
21:38
Will you behead Jews? I cannot ask what if your sister
21:41
is lesbian? Can't ask it interesting.
21:44
And I will ask anything from a Jew and not be afraid.
21:46
So it that's my only thing. It's something real or I won't
21:49
say. I actually wouldn't do this.
21:50
I wouldn't insult like Islam in that sense, like like to be ugly
21:55
so but in in Arab Israeli areas, I don't feel nervous at all.
22:00
E Jerusalem a little nervous as soon as I cross that checkpoint.
22:03
Yeah, I'm nervous, unless I'm in a Jewish area.
22:07
Fascinating. OK, are you just?
22:09
But would you mind driving through Ramallah if you had to
22:11
get somewhere? No, I do.
22:12
I've done it. Do you mind it, though?
22:14
I mean, I understand. You go to Ramallah and you get
22:16
out of your car. I.
22:17
Feel like I feel like it's something I have to do.
22:21
I don't like doing it. Like a friend of mine wants to
22:24
go all the time. He's American.
22:26
He goes, yeah, but I want Kenafin.
22:27
I want this. And I went and I'm like, no, no,
22:29
no, no. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm done with
22:32
the Jew hatred. Like I'm there for a purpose.
22:35
I'm not enjoying myself. It's so hard to find somebody
22:38
who would accept me there. And it's and the acceptance is
22:41
bordering on not necessarily they will be violent, but
22:45
potentially violent. Do they think you're evil?
22:47
No. Let me change the question.
22:48
Do. They, well, they don't know who
22:49
I am. No, Yes.
22:49
So let me change the question. Do they think Israelis are evil?
22:52
Yes, all of them. OK.
22:54
No, not all of them. Majority yes.
22:56
OK, so I would. Say there's a spectrum, like
23:00
let's let's think about it on a spectrum.
23:01
I know it's easier to think in black and white.
23:03
I do it too. Yeah, but it's wrong. 40% I
23:06
would say are die hard. The Israelis have to all
23:10
Israelis, all Jews have to leave.
23:11
Period. Leave or die.
23:14
Hopefully leave if not, well if we killed them.
23:17
Then they're gone. Then they're gone.
23:18
It's a wait. 20% are the opposite of no.
23:23
The Jews do us good because they're in thinking about
23:25
economics now, if you ask them. Yeah.
23:28
But are the Jews actually from here?
23:29
They're of course not. They all converted 100 years ago
23:32
because of Zionism, Because that's what they hear.
23:36
I'm. I'm generalizing or whatever,
23:37
and someone's going to say no, no, no, I heard this.
23:40
OK. I'm just giving you
23:41
generalizations. So I would. 10 to 20% are more
23:45
like no, no no, I'm OK with the Jews, usually older people,
23:49
sometimes younger people to the point where with a younger
23:51
person says it and it doesn't even happen.
23:53
Each time I go I all I want to do is hug them.
23:55
That's all I want to do. Meaning I'm willing to live with
23:58
the Jews. They could not think where.
24:00
What's the percentage of them? Of young people, that I would
24:03
say is like 5%. Wow.
24:05
Yeah, Older people, it's more like 20%.
24:09
So how? OK, you're an expert in conflict
24:11
resolution. And then I would say sorry and
24:12
let me put that other 40% for talking numbers.
24:15
I'd say there's somewhere on that spectrum in between.
24:18
They could be that 40% could be convinced otherwise maybe.
24:21
But they have no leadership. And that's a whole other thing.
24:24
And all they hear about us. And I, I, everybody go on
24:28
Palestinian TikTok, Instagram, watch their videos.
24:32
It's another world. What?
24:33
Do you mean it's just hate? It's no, it's, it's showing us
24:37
doing hateful things to them every day doing I just, I don't
24:42
know. That's the thing.
24:43
I don't know. I get yesterday I got a, a
24:46
screenshot of a, a guy who lives in Udav Shamwan, who is a
24:52
soldier who apparently killed two people in a school.
24:56
It was, it was framed that way in a school.
24:59
I check the Israeli news, there were two people killed, a 13
25:02
year old and a 30 year old didn't give a name.
25:05
They know his name. They have a picture of him, the
25:07
Palestinians, apparently he's done this.
25:10
Other times there's rumors going around.
25:13
They 100% believe it. And no matter what I would say,
25:17
it can't be disproven. I go on the Israeli news, All I
25:20
know is a soldier killed two people.
25:22
What the what happened exactly? I don't know.
25:26
Impossible to know. I have met.
25:29
Now let let let me flip this. When I go to Jewish settlements
25:34
in Judea and Samaria, as you call it, people are much more,
25:42
much kinder and nicer and open to peace than I ever expected.
25:45
As that old lefty guy who lives in Tel Aviv, every so often I do
25:50
meet the guy with crazy eyes who I'm like, oh, yeah, OK, yeah, I
25:53
can see it. And I remember one of them
25:55
brought me back to his, the settlement in his house.
25:58
And, you know, yeah, I would not be surprised.
26:04
Meaning the community took his gun away.
26:07
His friend. I asked were you ever 'cause his
26:10
friend was younger, were you ever part of a hilltop youth?
26:13
And he said no. And I'm like, did you ever heard
26:17
any Arabs? No.
26:19
Are you lying to me? Yeah, and he said this.
26:23
It was on camera, and I just laughed.
26:25
He was afraid the police are gonna come get him.
26:27
It's not that he's afraid of the world.
26:28
He didn't care about that. Interesting, though.
26:29
Like he's afraid the police are gonna come get them.
26:31
I, I I just. So my point is there are some
26:35
crazy people. This is the problem, I would
26:37
say. I would say, and I don't know
26:38
the the Hilltop Youth and I'm trying to kind of find them.
26:41
I'd love to interview them, although they probably hit me.
26:43
But why? Because I'm according to them,
26:47
I'm from breaking the silence. According to them, this, I get
26:49
this all the time when I'm in Binyamin, I go to the Rami levy
26:53
at Binyamin. I get people yelling at me from
26:56
far away, Shovrim, Shtika Shalom Arshav screaming at me.
27:01
And I'm like, I'm just asking a question, right?
27:04
So, and I what I notice is that when I ask people about it and
27:08
this question I've been asking, what do people think of hilltop
27:11
youth? There is this kind of like, I
27:14
don't want to say conspiracy. There is this idea that it
27:16
barely exists, and I think that's probably not correct.
27:21
I can't prove it. I don't know.
27:23
But there's a lot of violence that seems to happen in the West
27:25
Bank from Jews to Palestinians. By the way, I don't know if it's
27:29
equal, but there is a lot of violence of Palestinians to
27:31
Jews. I'm not denying that.
27:33
And I don't actually think it should be only one side being
27:36
reported. But unfortunately, in the
27:38
international press, only one side is reported.
27:40
I just feel there's so much hate pumped into their society and
27:44
and not very much pumped into art, so there's no reason.
27:49
I no, see, I don't I disagree and it's I don't think it's as
27:53
the the hate is much more apparent in their society.
27:56
They are much more vocal about it.
27:58
But I remember look, this is when was I here 1996.
28:02
I was living on Rashav and with my and I was talking to my
28:05
brother in I mean.
28:27
I think no, what what I meant, I meant more was maybe.
28:31
I think that's the difference between I need to kill you and
28:34
drive you out of my land. Yes, OK, versus versus, oh,
28:37
you're an unreasonable person. Yes, right.
28:39
I I I agree. And if that's gonna if, I mean
28:42
it's quite depressing if you're telling me that 5%, I know that
28:45
that number is. Arbitrary and it's also
28:47
impossible to do 'cause I'm I'm getting them on camera.
28:50
Are they thinking? I have to say we're socially
28:52
acceptable according to my society, I'm assuming yes.
28:56
I don't know. Oh, by the way, the that guy who
28:58
I wanted to hug last time, he was a Spider man costume so he
29:02
could be completely anonymous. Right, Right.
29:05
Is he friendly in the neighborhood?
29:07
Got it. Friendly.
29:08
He is friendly here. It's Spider Man.
29:11
OK, fine. All right, So I hear that now.
29:13
Have you ever had a security incident where you got injured?
29:16
No. OK, so after all of this, you've
29:18
come down unscathed. How long have you been doing
29:21
this? Since 2012.
29:23
Wow. In 2011, the closest I ever came
29:25
was before I even started doing this, I went to Ramallah because
29:30
they were celebrating when Palestine got a a seat in the UN
29:34
and a friend of mine who's Palestinians had come.
29:36
It'll be really interesting. And on the way back, there was a
29:39
riot going on. So this is another thing I have
29:41
about Palestinian society. You get a seat in the UN, why do
29:44
you go riots at the checkpoints? So that was my criticism.
29:50
And of course, everybody at the checkpoints, all the
29:51
Palestinians who I was stuck with, and I'm being shot at by
29:54
my army with tear gas, turned out wasn't bullets.
30:00
I'm with them. And they're all blaming the
30:03
Jews. Look what the Jews do to us.
30:05
See what they do to us. And I'm like, nobody's, you
30:07
know, like these guys with the slingshots and the masks.
30:10
Nobody's blaming them really, because if it was my kid, I'd be
30:13
furious. 100% I. Even if I thought our narrative
30:16
is the only right narrative, I would be furious if my son did
30:19
that. But that's because you're just
30:21
more of an open thinker. I don't know.
30:24
I would say that's because I'm Canadian.
30:25
Actually that's it's a Canadian thing.
30:27
Also I, I have to say in Hebron, Palestinian Hebron, 8 year olds
30:32
threw rocks at me and hit me in the in the face tiny rocks.
30:36
All the adults laughed. They thought it was funny.
30:40
So this is what I mean. That to me, that's barbarity.
30:43
That's awful. Wow.
30:47
OK, you specialize. I think you please correct me.
30:52
I don't teach. You don't teach.
30:53
OK, but you focus on conflict resolution?
30:56
I I I run a program administratively of an MA in
31:01
conflict resolution and mediation.
31:02
Anyone who wants to come to Tel Aviv University, please comment
31:04
to your long program. It's great.
31:06
OK. And they they sign up for this
31:07
program and they learn. It's all in English.
31:10
It's mostly, you know, half Americans, half Europeans.
31:13
From all over the world, though, they come learn about conflict
31:16
resolution, how to negotiate, mediate, facilitate.
31:20
Do you? Excuse the really childish
31:23
sounding question, but it's a setup.
31:25
Do you think you're good at conflict resolution?
31:27
No, I think no, no, this is OK. This is my joke.
31:31
I am very good at conflict analysis.
31:33
I understand why things are coming, why things are
31:36
happening. I am very good in a group of
31:38
knowing what's going to trigger people, very good at it.
31:42
I meet people in one minute. I'm like, oh, I know exactly
31:44
what to say which is going to cause conflict.
31:46
I'm very good at it. So I've worked backwards because
31:48
I understand what is motivating people to get in this situation.
31:53
I am terrible at the negotiations, mediation, that
31:57
part. Fascinating, yeah.
31:59
I, I, I'm very hot tempered. It comes from my mother.
32:04
Yeah, I will just start yelling at people.
32:06
And I in my head I'm saying Corey, Corey, don't do that.
32:09
That's the wrong thing to do from every perspective.
32:11
It can only escalate things. I'd still do it.
32:15
What's the way to do you see a way to actually bridge the gap
32:18
between Israelis and Palestinians?
32:20
Not really. I think anything positive is
32:23
positive. I always relate to say that over
32:25
and over again. So for example, all these groups
32:27
that do dialogue groups, and there are there's like
32:30
Shohashim, there's different groups in the West Bank of Jews
32:33
who are, by the way, it's almost always led by Jews.
32:35
This is another one of my things like that's I think it's both
32:38
funny and telling. It's always led by Jews.
32:41
But Palestinians still go, sometimes they're going just to
32:43
get a job or to hopefully meet someone for, you know, reasons,
32:50
sexual reasons. And that's OK.
32:55
I'm OK with that because it's still anything positive is
32:57
positive. I don't think they work very
32:58
well because each side just has their narrative and they don't
33:02
have permission really from their leaders.
33:06
Maybe you can relate to this. It's as if we need to people,
33:09
our leaders, our political leaders to say it's OK to make
33:12
peace, which nobody has said since we're being way back.
33:17
So it's like getting permission from your rabbi in a sense.
33:21
And I think that would change things if there was an Anwar
33:24
Sadat who came along and said it's time to understand what
33:29
really happened in 1948, figure out how to compromise.
33:35
And nobody has done that on the Palestinian side, ever.
33:38
Arafat never said that to his own people who were saying we're
33:40
going to get what we want. Well, it'll never work, in my
33:42
humble opinion, that well. That's beside it.
33:44
That's beside the point whether it work or not.
33:46
But it's never, never happened in Israel.
33:48
There was sort of reluctance. So I think in my humble opinion,
33:53
especially from what you're saying, I feel like you need to
33:55
start with the children on both sides, though from what you're
33:58
saying, far more the Palestinian side, which is we need to,
34:01
instead of indoctrinating our children with hate for the other
34:04
side. As you can see, these are people
34:06
that you disagree with. Now, these are people that have
34:10
done things that we don't agree with, but there's still people
34:12
we can come to the table, have a conversation.
34:14
Nobody is saying that on the Palestinian side.
34:15
Yeah, there's some on the. Israeli side who do say that,
34:19
but how are you going to do it? So this is my question, how
34:21
would you do it? Schools, I think somehow.
34:23
Who's going to do it? And no Palestinian teacher ever,
34:26
because it's traitorous, would teach.
34:29
I, I've seen a couple of videos of a woman in Gaza.
34:32
Who does it want? You know, here and there there's
34:34
little drops, but it's traitorous to their side to even
34:38
talk that way. So who's what?
34:40
My idea was you get the Saudis to come in and take over
34:42
everything. They're never going to agree to
34:44
do it, but you need some Islamic State to come in and say enough,
34:48
enough with this. We, we, we lost.
34:51
Whatever. I don't even think it needs to
34:53
be about winning or losing. I just when you're teaching a
34:56
three-year old, I need to kill people.
34:59
I, I don't think there's a way you can't get back from because
35:01
that's dogma locked in, you know, and I think it's very
35:04
difficult to unpack that. Plus, when you add the fact that
35:06
I think Islam in general is a little bit less of a thought
35:10
religion and more of an act religion, then it just feels
35:14
like there's no way out. I've seen no way out.
35:17
I constantly people say what's the solution?
35:19
I say there is no solution. I say the best of all the bad
35:22
solutions is the 2 state solution because it gives
35:24
everybody a certain amount of what they wanted.
35:26
Everyone has to also give up something.
35:28
But no one will agree to. That no one will agree to it,
35:30
right? 80% on both sides. 80% on both
35:33
sides are against it. You don't even need 80%.
35:36
Even if you had 30% on both sides against it, it wouldn't
35:38
work because there's too many fire starters who all you have
35:41
to do on the Palestinian, even if, let's say Palestinians,
35:44
because at one point it was up to 70% on the Israeli side.
35:47
And cause at Telva University we actually do the peace index.
35:50
So I, I, I, this is something I know it's 70% who agreed on A2
35:54
state solution, even reluctantly, it doesn't matter.
35:57
And on the Palestinian side, it was close to 60%.
35:59
It was, it was close. It wasn't bad.
36:01
This is in the 90s. I'm sure now it's.
36:03
Oh, 20% it may be. Some people claim 30% on the
36:06
Palestinian side, but it's feels high.
36:12
What was my .0? All you need is the fire starter
36:17
of the of the bad actor who who creates a violent situation.
36:22
And on both sides they're gonna go.
36:24
You see, you can't trust them and you confirm your bias of
36:28
underneath all this. And as Jews, we know this.
36:31
We are a very paranoid people. We assume everyone hates us and
36:35
it's gonna try to kill us. I'm one of them.
36:39
The Palestinians are kind of like that too.
36:42
So all you need is 1, you know, Barack Goldstein or, you know,
36:48
somebody to do something like that.
36:51
And there are very few, by the way, because when I talk about
36:53
Jewish terrorists, I have like a handful.
36:55
I can actually a name, but they existed.
36:58
And yeah, people will use that. Why do they find it?
37:03
Why would they find it traitorous to try to introduce
37:06
the fact that Jews are people too into their system or
37:09
Christians are people too? Well, OK, no, Christians are OK.
37:13
They they like Christians because they see Palestinian
37:15
Christians as OK. What was the population of
37:18
Christians in Gaza? Yeah, I know.
37:20
I agree. And I know Christians in Gaza
37:22
who left and they said the Muslims weren't so great to us.
37:25
However, if you're talking about Muslim dogma, Muslim thought,
37:30
they think that they're wonderful to Christians.
37:31
Christians are Palestinian, they're terrific to Christians.
37:33
You speak to Christians, they're like, OK, sometimes they harass
37:36
us today. It's not that bad, but it's, you
37:38
know, there are, yeah, there are situations where it's, it's not
37:42
great. No, it's about the Jews.
37:43
It's not about the Christians. OK, so let's focus on that one.
37:46
Why is it traitorous to try to introduce the fact that they are
37:48
human beings created in God's image?
37:52
I've never asked that specific question, but what they would
37:55
say is that the Jews are all invaders who are colonists, who
37:59
are European, who came to destroy this land and kick the
38:05
Arabs out. That's how they see us.
38:07
OK, but there is no humanity in there.
38:09
Well, why can't we be humans that did that?
38:11
I just feel like we're not humans anymore.
38:13
We're just. Yeah, just the enemy.
38:14
I. Don't know.
38:15
I don't know what they would say because I haven't asked that
38:16
question specifically. That's a fun question to ask.
38:19
Yeah, sure. I'm taking it.
38:21
I have to watch this stuff. I would ask, are the Jews human?
38:24
That's what I'm asking, right? Yeah.
38:25
Are Jews human? OK.
38:27
Do they have, do they have feelings like you do?
38:28
Do they have families like you do?
38:29
I think they would say, I think the majority would say yes.
38:31
They're because some would say no, I think, but I think the
38:33
majority would say yes. That's my sense.
38:34
Let's find out. I love this.
38:36
OK, This is my favorite thing. OK, let's do it.
38:38
OK. I'm excited to see what you find
38:39
out. I have a feeling they will say
38:41
yes, but I feel like they're they don't think about that.
38:44
Yeah. So if I'm not mistaken, I'm hope
38:47
I'm not making. I actually have an explanation
38:48
for that, I think. I think this is my own theory,
38:52
that Palestinian Hood being a Palestinian is really new, even
38:58
though they claim that they're 3000 years old, They're the
39:00
Canaanites. All right, fine, I don't really
39:02
care. But really it's very new because
39:04
somebody who called themselves a Palestinian only really started
39:07
maybe in 1910s maybe, and really in the 1960s.
39:13
And I think that they define themselves against the Jews,
39:18
against Zionism and if and we have to be their ultimate enemy
39:21
for them to be a people. OK, so I like that you said that
39:24
because I do think that that's exactly it.
39:26
So what I was going to say, which really plays into that is
39:28
I think it was Doctor Phil, but and if it's not, it's someone
39:31
else, but I believe it was Doctor Phil.
39:33
He set up really big, like very strong leftists and and and
39:39
right wingers in America. Tough for a debate, but the rule
39:42
was once you got to the debate table that you had to speak for
39:45
10 minutes beforehand just interviewing the other person.
39:48
Do they have, you know, what are their parents like?
39:50
Do they have any siblings whatever?
39:52
Do they know? The other person is no, no.
39:54
Well, well, they know. The other person is is righty.
39:56
Yeah, they know. They know that they're not the
39:58
same politics, yeah. And he said that what followed
40:01
was like a super respectful conversation after that debate
40:03
with like no yelling or anything like that.
40:05
What? No, go ahead.
40:07
I'll give an example. One of the earlier questions I
40:09
asked is Palestinians. How much do you hate Israelis?
40:12
Israelis, how much do you hate Palestinians?
40:14
Actually, it was framed as Israel because I, my a
40:17
translator wasn't very good at the time.
40:19
It doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter.
40:21
They understood Israelis and people would say 10 out of 10.
40:25
Palestine would say 10 out of 1010 out of 1010, and someone
40:27
would say 3 out of 10. And they'd say why?
40:29
And they'd go, oh, I have Israeli friends.
40:31
They'd be Jerusalemites or they used to work for Israelis in
40:34
Israel, like older people. And usually if they had a
40:36
connection that helps, it does help for, for the same reason I
40:42
would say me going to the West Bank and not to encourage people
40:45
to do that, me going to Palestinians to the West Bank,
40:48
as much as they say awful things and I feel like they give me
40:51
their PTSD every time I, I come back and I'm like, I hate this.
40:55
I hate this so much. I don't want them to suffer.
40:59
I really don't. I, I, they've humanized me to a
41:03
certain extent. I also think that they're really
41:05
can be awful. They can say awful, awful
41:07
things, but they're still human beings that has humanized me.
41:10
Whereas watching it in video is different.
41:14
And unfortunately I can't bring everyone with me.
41:16
I had a friend who came with me, he's American, and he even
41:19
turned to me and said they really do speak like this.
41:21
And I'm like, what did you think?
41:22
You've been watching the videos for like 7 years?
41:25
And he goes, yeah, but it's different when you're in front
41:27
of them because it's such a contradiction.
41:29
Someone is so nice to you because he was, he's young and
41:32
he's good looking. And so they're being really
41:34
sweet and nice to him. And then they're saying no, no,
41:35
we need to get rid of the Jews. And he's like, what?
41:39
So I, I think every, I wish everyone could have that kind of
41:42
experience because even if it's really awful people, we're still
41:45
stuck together no matter what. Nobody's getting rid of anybody.
41:48
Right, right. Have you been to Gaza?
41:51
Sort of once in 1990, but that's just went to Egypt as a.
41:54
Would you would would you? Would you chance that?
41:56
Only if the PLO or somebody else took over.
42:01
Not under Hamas, No way. So crazy.
42:03
So do you think that the degree of of of hate somehow is even
42:07
more intense there? I don't know because I, I
42:12
everything I hear is through people.
42:13
So I know people in Gaza. So some people have turned
42:17
turned to me because of the videos who are from Gaza and
42:22
given their wanted to give their opinions and I at the first I
42:24
allowed them, but then I thought, how do I know they're
42:26
actually in Gaza? Turns out they are, because now
42:28
I have proof and they are much more if they're if they're
42:32
looking me up. Well, usually I should say the
42:35
chances are they're at least semi open to to Israel.
42:39
Really. Yeah, semi.
42:41
Now some of it is. Yeah, but maybe that's just
42:43
because that's that's the reach outs.
42:45
Meaning it's not like if you go into Ramallah, you ask a random
42:48
person, they'll tell you one thing.
42:49
Well, they're reaching out. Exactly.
42:50
That's why I usually don't interview people who say, oh, I
42:53
really want to be interviewed by you.
42:54
No, I don't do that. Right, because then it's self
42:56
selecting. Right.
42:57
Doesn't 100%. So was there anything that on
43:02
the Palestinian side and on the Israeli side that told you
43:05
something that was so earth shattering for you that it
43:08
changed your perspective on something?
43:10
Well, I would say with the first video I made in the Palestinian
43:13
territories was because originally I kind of thought
43:15
about making a lot of jokes in this because I like humor,
43:18
because I think humor cuts through things in different
43:20
ways, gets rid of emotionality. And so my original question was
43:25
do my question was Palestinians, when do you plan to throw the
43:29
Jews in the sea? Because I thought, who would
43:30
actually want to throw the Jews in the sea?
43:32
That's ridiculous. And the first guy said, and this
43:34
is in the video, first guy says, no, it's a Zionist conspiracy.
43:38
The Jews made that up. There's no such thing.
43:41
And I went, I don't know how to make a joke out of that.
43:43
So I went to the next guy and he said, of course I want to throw
43:46
the Jews in the sea. And I'm like, no, sweetie,
43:48
sweetie, no, no, no. So I had a friend who there who
43:50
was Palestinian, who lived in Italy, but he spoke Arabic and
43:53
he translated. He goes, no, I understood your
43:54
question. I have to get rid of them.
43:55
They stole my land. I have to.
43:57
And I went, oh, we're dealing with that.
44:00
Like that was to me, like the coin dropped, you know, for
44:03
older people than in the phone. Simone came down of, oh, we have
44:08
it like we got issues here. And so, yeah, that on the
44:13
Israeli side, less so 'cause I'm, I'm used to Israelis.
44:17
No one ever told you something but just.
44:19
Well, yeah, there's lots of examples of people, mostly when
44:21
people are telling personal stories, which are really tragic
44:25
on both sides. But the one that comes to mind I
44:28
always use is I had this absurd question, which I personally
44:31
love the absurd questions of why are Arabs more polite than Jews,
44:35
which is true, by the way. Now they're more polite because
44:38
you'll get killed if you're not in some society.
44:41
But you know, whatever, I'll take it.
44:45
So I'm asking Jews and every single person took it as an
44:48
affront to being an Israeli and being Jewish.
44:50
And I don't mind doing that. I really don't.
44:52
But it was interesting how people came up with answers and
44:54
one, one said at the end, I don't like to talk about Arabs.
44:57
My daughter was killed in a suicide bombing or a terror
45:00
attack or whatever. She said, oh, crap.
45:03
And on the one hand, I was like, oh, crap.
45:04
I just like victimized this woman.
45:06
She's an older woman in her fifties, 60s.
45:10
And I'm. But I'm also thinking, I'm glad
45:13
people are seeing this. Like people need to know this
45:15
happens. Yeah, exists.
45:16
So yeah, that was when it it so surprises because I actually
45:21
know when I'm asking someone a question, they rarely surprise
45:23
me very much. Do you think there's a Let me
45:27
change my question a little bit. Do you think that there's
45:29
genocide going on in Gaza in your opinion?
45:31
In my opinion, no, because my understanding of the definition
45:33
of genocide is there has to be intent.
45:35
And I don't find that Israelis want to get rid of every
45:38
Palestinian in Gaza. There are some, it is not the
45:43
majority. Can you understand someone that
45:46
would make the mistake and think that there's a genocide award in
45:49
Gaza? The yes and no.
45:52
So the what annoys me about the whole thing is that they're at
45:57
the same time as the Gaza war is going on and let's say it's
46:01
70,000 people. I don't know if we could trust
46:03
that. Could be more.
46:04
It could be, I don't know. There it was in Sudan, other
46:11
genocides going on, other mass killings in Ethiopia, in Russia,
46:15
Russia, Ukraine, other No. Jews are involved, so no one's
46:18
gonna. Count.
46:18
Well, that's what annoys me. Why is it only the, as I said
46:22
before about Zionism, why is it the only one that has an anti?
46:27
Why is this the only one that's a genocide?
46:30
And then people, young people, which annoys me, will say, well,
46:32
what's 'cause so many people were killed?
46:34
Like, well, there's a lot. Russia killed more people, a lot
46:37
of people killed. And, and maybe it's maybe in
46:39
terms of civilian proportions, there's more in Gaza.
46:42
True, probably true. I don't know.
46:45
I'm going by ChatGPT 'cause I can't know for sure.
46:47
And we can't know for sure. None of us know, but it annoys
46:50
me that everyone has come up with a different definition of
46:53
genocide because it is in it is now it is it.
46:57
It's like, well, I'm old. So in the, you know, when I was
47:00
in, in the 80's, the whole issue was apartheid South Africa that
47:04
everyone was talking about. And Oh my God, this is the world
47:06
issue. We got to do something.
47:08
And so if you were young and I remember I didn't go to any
47:10
rallies against apartheid, but I remember hearing about it and
47:13
going, yeah, that shouldn't happen.
47:15
So this is what young people, this is the issue that they've
47:17
all decided on now I have, I actually am kind of happy for
47:20
Palestinians in the sense of any group, Armenians, Palestinians,
47:26
Kurds, Jews, everyone deserves their time in the, in the light,
47:30
you know, of, of seeing people's victimhood because it does
47:33
happen. There are victims, but it's
47:36
become so completely out of proportion.
47:38
And the and the flip side is just being a Jew, just being an
47:42
Israeli means you are a genocider.
47:45
That's insanity. I.
47:46
Don't know. I find the whole thing.
47:47
I mean it's almost, it baffles my mind.
47:51
Number one, Nazi Germany had a bunch of years and a lot less
47:54
technology. They didn't they they get an A+
47:57
genocide. I think that with our
47:59
technology, if we really wanted to have a genocidal event also,
48:03
it'd be done in the day. Exactly.
48:04
We have the means to destroy the people of Gaza in a day in
48:10
according to the I don't know what the latest sticks are
48:12
statistics are, but it was up to 80% of Gaza completely
48:15
destroyed. That should mean 80% of the
48:17
people are killed is not true, right?
48:21
Also, there's just, there's no intent, and that's supposed to
48:23
be the. For sure, a bit more than that
48:25
is that is that if I'm trying to, there was an author that I
48:28
reached out to recently who refused to come on the show
48:33
because of the genocidal war that's going on in Israel.
48:36
And then I had to admit to it on the air.
48:37
Otherwise he was going to come on.
48:39
And we had a small debate and I made just one.
48:43
Like when I actually started arguing with him, I made one
48:45
point and he never answered me back, which I think was quite
48:47
telling. But I said, look, it's there's a
48:49
difference between a Nazi wanting to destroy your whole
48:52
family and that's it. Or there's someone holding your
48:56
family hostage and they put five people, 10 people, 100 innocent
49:01
people in front of them and you're going to take that shot
49:03
anyway, even though you know that 5000 people are going to
49:05
die because you care about your sister, your mother, or your
49:08
spouse. Well, they would probably say in
49:09
the West, they would say no, that's not legitimate.
49:11
They would probably say it now that's that's from their
49:13
perspective. OK.
49:15
I mean, I don't think it's OK. I think it's.
49:17
I I think that's a Socratic failure.
49:19
I mean, if that's how you're going to describe genocide,
49:21
yeah. But that's not genocide.
49:22
That's my my issue. And maybe I'm getting hung up on
49:25
apartheid, genocide, all these, all these terms which are not
49:28
exact. And they wouldn't do the same
49:29
thing. People wouldn't do the same
49:30
thing someone's wife has. Taken care of.
49:32
That's also, yeah, I don't know. I also would, I, I, I, I don't
49:37
know. And I don't even know with what
49:39
we did in, in Gaza was the right thing.
49:43
I don't know. I really don't.
49:44
I'm, I'm keeping a very neutral stand on it because I don't know
49:50
if the use of force is really what's gonna save us.
49:54
I don't know. But diplomacy is not.
49:57
And trying to create agreements has not.
50:00
And everyone just blames Israel for that part.
50:02
And there is blame in Israel. I was here in the 90s, we were
50:05
building settlements. Sorry, but that was an issue
50:07
then. But Palestinians are today a
50:11
justice against any settlement of the any agreement with
50:16
Israel, as Israelis are actually more so than Israelis.
50:19
Are but that goes back to the failure of before.
50:21
I think if the goal of the war was to severely dismantle the
50:25
other side, which I hope that was the goal, I think that
50:28
that's great. I think that that it.
50:30
Did they can rebuild? So.
50:31
But The thing is, is what? We're going to rebuild the the,
50:35
the, the idea of the Mokawa is the resistance.
50:38
That's what they're going to rebuild.
50:39
Going to, but we're going. To do that's what they that's
50:41
what they want. But we have to do this again and
50:43
again and again and again. Why?
50:45
Because of what we said a couple minutes ago, which is the, the
50:49
real problem is the dogma underneath.
50:51
We need, we need to stop teaching children to kill the
50:53
other side. I think that's the association.
50:55
And by the way, it's, it's the same thing with Iran, in my
50:57
humble opinion. I think that you have a large
50:59
portion of powerful people in Iran.
51:02
I don't think that that's the entire population, but in Iran
51:04
that just wants to do horrible things and get nuclear weapons
51:07
and destroy the world. And the way that you combat that
51:09
is, is that you dismantle them as much as you can.
51:12
Yes, they will build themselves back up, but the only thing you
51:15
can do is dismantle unless you get rid of what's going on
51:18
underneath, right? And that's, I think that's.
51:20
But the question is, how do you do it?
51:21
I don't have any answers. Honestly, the the the idea that
51:23
you said that's impossible was like a great idea if Saudis
51:26
would come in. Oh, yeah, but they're not going
51:27
to do it. I wish, I wish.
51:29
It's the. Children.
51:30
It's our children. It's the education system.
51:32
Right. And I think it would be better
51:33
for Palestinians. Of course it would so.
51:35
I, I think they, I, I believe that, you know, the Kurds and we
51:38
Jews, every group deserves some form of self determination to
51:43
feel that they're living, as you say, their best lives or however
51:48
you phrased it before. And, and, but everyone should
51:50
have that right, but not at the expense of killing other people
51:56
or destroying other people. Right.
51:58
Or having some sort of culture to push a certain agenda, like
52:01
what people think. Well, mostly when it comes.
52:04
As long as it's nonviolent, I don't really care that much.
52:07
But. I don't know.
52:08
I care a lot. I mean, violence is just, I'm
52:13
thinking if I'm going to say this, I'm going to say this, OK,
52:16
There's violence which is, which is me physically assaulting you.
52:20
That's bad. That's wrong.
52:21
I think if I think about violence towards another person,
52:25
I might not have concretely, I've said something similar
52:27
before in other episodes, but I might not have concretely done
52:30
something wrong to you. But like, there's an engine of
52:32
evil in my mind. Yeah, OK, there's something
52:35
really wrong with that. So even if we have a society
52:38
where we just demonize the other side in our head, but we don't
52:40
actually act on it, these are either the seeds of destruction
52:43
later or it just it it it's it's something it's sick inside of
52:47
us. And I don't think that we want a
52:49
society like that. I don't want my kids, you know,
52:51
demonizing other people, you know?
52:53
Just because of the way they are.
52:56
I'm more concerned about Israeli Jewish society and Jewish
53:00
society in in general. Not just because of the outside
53:03
anti-Semitism, but because you know, as what's his name, Yusuf
53:07
Haddad. People like that are saying we
53:09
need to become more Arab. We need to show we need to be
53:12
tougher than them. And he has a point.
53:15
I'm not saying he's wrong, I just is that who we want to be?
53:19
I don't know if that's what we want to be as a people.
53:21
I completely agree with you. I don't think that should be
53:23
done unless at the same time again, we have that education,
53:26
we have the from a young age, we have to understand that these
53:29
are people. They're made in God's image.
53:31
Yes, they might be killing and and and raping and stealing,
53:34
which is all evil. It's terrible, but there's still
53:37
people. That doesn't mean that we don't
53:38
need to wipe evil people out. That doesn't mean that we don't
53:41
need to fight wars, but it does mean that remember that this is
53:43
a human life, right? And and they have a lot of
53:46
importance. You know, like it, it saddens
53:48
me. It saddens me if I I don't know
53:51
the numbers of innocents and not innocents.
53:52
I don't know anything, but it definitely hurts me when an
53:55
innocent person in in Gaza dies because innocent people
53:59
shouldn't have to die. But I'm not shedding a tear when
54:02
non non innocent people die. But if I think that everyone in
54:05
the world is evil, right, and I'm never going to shed a tear.
54:08
I've destroyed humanity before, you know, before I dropped the
54:10
bomb, right. And I think that that's just
54:12
horrible. We need a, we need a different
54:13
world. So I think your idea wasn't
54:16
wasn't crazy. The only other thing I could
54:17
possibly think of as doing something a little bit like a
54:20
Charlie Kirk thing, I just don't think it really work.
54:22
What's Charlie Kirk thing? Go somewhere, have open
54:25
conversations. You know I don't.
54:28
In the universities, heck, in doctor's offices, it doesn't
54:32
matter. Like just talk about these
54:34
things that are taboo in your society or you've already decide
54:36
in your society. They won't do it.
54:38
There's and by the way, there are a couple of things.
54:40
First of all, a Palestinians won't do it.
54:41
Actually, most Israelis won't do it.
54:42
Some Israelis will. A lot of Israelis, Palestinians
54:46
won't. So that's, I mean, half the
54:47
people involved not gonna do it. Second, as I'm trying to
54:52
remember his name, he was from Haifa University and he did this
54:55
great study of dialogue groups. I actually met him completely
54:59
blanking on the thing. Doesn't matter.
55:02
He they had a year long or two year long dialogue between
55:05
Palestinians and Israelis, Arabs and Jews and whatever.
55:08
And what would happen is as soon as after they'd come to
55:11
agreements, they wouldn't agree, but they would come to humanize
55:14
each other. Fine.
55:16
They would go back to their community and very quickly you
55:18
have to reintegrate into your community.
55:20
And it's like AI always like a rubber band, it just snaps back
55:23
into place. You you think it's that futile?
55:26
Yes and no, So he said. Then they would check.
55:29
They would take them away six months later, I think don't
55:32
don't quote me on these on these dates because that I don't
55:34
remember, but they months later, they would take the same people,
55:36
bring them back together within a day.
55:38
They were backed at the same point of humanizing each other,
55:42
but in their community hard. It was hard to they couldn't go
55:45
back to their community and say, you know what, the Jews are OK.
55:47
They couldn't do it. It's too traitorous.
55:50
And we, the Jewish side, we do that too to a certain extent.
55:54
It's just not as dangerous for us, for them.
55:56
It's actually dangerous. Yes, I feel it all the time.
55:59
I feel it because most of my family here is much more, way
56:04
more right wing with me and I just got to shut up because
56:07
what's the point? I'm going to change their
56:09
opinions. OK, so I have, I have an
56:12
interesting question. You always have the mic facing
56:16
this way I was able to get the mic going the other way, which I
56:18
think is great and it was a lot of fun.
56:20
But I want to experience the other side.
56:23
Sure, ask me a question. Can I film it?
56:26
Yeah, sure. Oh, OK.
56:28
OK, do you define yourself as haredi?
56:33
Yeah. Did you serve in the Army?
56:36
I didn't. Why don't Haredi serve in the
56:38
army? The Maccabean did.
56:40
I think that, See, I think that's a good question.
56:43
I think there's two things. I think that if I'm actually
56:46
really pro having an army, if it's like the Maccabee Army or
56:49
David's army, David's army, if the army was structured in a
56:53
fashion in which there was religious freedom and security,
56:57
I absolutely think that that we should be serving our country in
57:00
that fashion. I think that the thing that
57:02
makes U.S. special and unique as Jews is our religion is our
57:06
culture, is our life. And if we're going to be out
57:11
there on the field and because of that, the thing that we hold
57:14
most sacred and dear is is going to suffer for that, then I think
57:18
that that's a mistake. Now, ultimately what that means
57:21
is instead of a, I'm, I'm generalizing, but as an example,
57:26
instead of a, a secular Jew who wants to go clubbing in Tel
57:29
Aviv. I'm not saying every secular Jew
57:30
does as an example, you know, that person should be pulled in
57:34
versus more. Let's say the religious Jew is
57:35
learning in yeshiva all day. So back to the beginning of your
57:39
question. The reason why I think that not
57:41
many Haredim serve in the army is because it's not, it's not a
57:45
Haredi army. It's not the Mecca being.
57:47
Yeah, but most secular people, their, their argument is why do
57:50
they have to take the, the, the everything on them?
57:53
They have to be 3 years in the Army.
57:55
They have to be, I think it's three years now.
57:57
They have to be in reserve duty a month, two months, sometimes a
58:01
lot longer. Why aren't you guys
58:03
contributing? Have to is an interesting word.
58:06
I, I think that it's, it's our response.
58:08
They can, they don't have to like it.
58:10
You're asking me a question of why do Haredam not join the army
58:13
and why they're not. So I think in my humble opinion,
58:15
This is why if we're not going to sign up to destroy that that
58:19
we hold most sacred, we'll fight next to you.
58:22
If you, if I would say I would, I would flip.
58:23
But I say if you want us so badly and we don't mind serving.
58:27
So create an environment that really supports what we hold
58:30
sacred and most dear to our lives that we're willing to give
58:32
our lives for, you know, to make a big separation.
58:35
Hamas will die for what they believe in.
58:38
They will live in tunnels and eat nothing for months, years
58:41
for what they believe. And why?
58:42
Because they have an army, they have something they believe and
58:45
they've structured and look at how well their military works.
58:49
They push till the end. We're the opposite in the sense
58:52
of just what we believe, but we're still people.
58:54
We're going to work the same way.
58:55
If you build an army, that's a Jewish army, we're Jews, that's
58:59
a religious army, we're religious.
59:00
That's a Haredi army. We're haredi.
59:02
We should come. Good response too.
59:06
Very nice. OK.
59:07
Thank you. You're very welcome, Corey.
59:09
This is real.