Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Kieran Nay | The Highs and Lows of the Professional Trail Runner

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Kieran Nay | The Highs and Lows of the Professional Trail Runner · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to the steep stuff podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we have a banger of an episode, probably my favorite episode so far.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: To be entirely honest, my favorite interview at least.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Um, guys, we got to welcome the man, the myth and the legend, mr Kieran nay, to the podcast.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Um, you might know Kieran.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have heard his name on the broken arrow live stream over the last few years, as well as some of his recent feats at the Pikes Peak Ascent and Pikes Peak Marathon.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Kieran is a native of the Greater Colorado Springs area but currently resides in Gunnison, colorado.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Guys, I had such a fun discussion on this conversation.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Kieran has really gone on such an incredible journey in the last few years and he sounds like he is just in.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: You know, he's in his absolute best space he could possibly be in Happy.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: This episode is coming out just before Broken Arrow, so we want to wish him the best of luck at both the Broken Arrow Sky Race as well as the GoPro Games, which are a few of the races he's going to be racing in June.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So, yes, you guys can hop on there and cheer them on.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I'll bring this episode to you.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Steep Stuff Podcast, kieran Ney.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: We are live.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: She was awesome.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: She was amazing, she was really cool.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Stoked to have her on Shout out to Beyond the Trail podcast.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah, dude.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So what brings you back to monument, mom?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and dad are here.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, um are we live?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, I was, um, I was taking uh, oh, yeah, I was, I was driving a friend down from gunnison to dia.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, she's going to finland.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, and I was like, well, I'm down on the front range and I kind of don't want to drive back to Gunny right now and my folks live in monument.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: So I grew up here, um, and I, uh, yeah, I was like, okay, down here Might as well just hang out.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably a couple couple years really.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: So really, yeah, I'm, I'm not back much these days I know I was kind of, I was dude.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I should have invited you out for a run.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I felt kind of bad because during the weekdays, like my schedule's all kind of crazy, like I sneak out whenever I can to like get an hour or two in, and today I went to blodge it and it was like disgusting conditions up there like, but dude, it was like five down trees like it's nasty, yeah, so yeah, it was.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, we definitely got to get out for a run next time you come back absolutely, yeah, I'll be back at the very latest sometime in june.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, an eye doctor appointment, but I'd love to get back before then.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, dude, I don't know I feel like, uh, like palmer lake specifically is just like very I shouldn't say this on the podcast, but like very slept on yeah, like just really good trails to train on some techie stuff and it's just steep, like jataka was just very steep it's really good um, it's really good euro training, because they're not like I feel like they're almost like social trails, so they don't switch back and they're not really like responsibly made yeah, in the way that like straight up graded out mountain bike trails are more responsibly made for like erosion stuff.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: The stuff in palmer lake is just like straight up, straight down, which is fun.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Whenever I get to do that kind of running again, it always yeah, it always reminds me like what I grew up right on because my whole like intro into trail running was, yeah, like chautauqua and sundance and really yeah, that whole like ice caves favorite.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I'm always chasing your times on a lot of them, dude.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Like you're the you.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: That's how I found out about you.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Like you, you and matt daniels had the crowns that I've been chasing for, or the top tens, and then every now and then I'll see like a darren thomas in there.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, from like back in the day, yeah, yeah, whenever.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: When matt moved down here uh, that's how he and I ended up meeting each other, because he kept it, just went on a tear and took like half my palmer lake crowns no that's funny.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, we should probably introduce you.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, we've got kieran, is it?
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Nay is the pronounce nay nay, okay, kieran, nay, uh, dude, yeah, introduce yourself.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about you, and yeah, uh, yeah, I'm kieran.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Nay, uh, I'm a trail runner from I live in gunnison but I grew up in colorado springs, in this whole area and, uh, yeah, I am excited to be on the podcast, definitely big into, uh, kind of the sub-ultra mountain running world and so you fit this very well, yeah it's been the, it's been the focus of these these past few years.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: For sure, cool dude so you, we already kind of established that you grew up here.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: What got you, you into running?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, I was a pretty like awkward, unsporty kid.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I would like read books at recess and it's just kind of off picking dandelions.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: No wonder you and Whitfield are friends, yeah.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I was very um kind of bit of a space cadet and, uh, sports was just something that like I never thought I'd be good at, um.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, I think, middle school rolled around and my folks were like you need to do something.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And I did the speech and debate team like one year and then was like well, that was fun, but I don't know, that's like my total scene.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And my younger brother had gone out for cross country the year before don't know, that's like my total scene.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And my younger brother had gone out for cross country the year before and I went out for cross country and was like second on the team in the first race that I did and then all of a sudden I had all this like social currency that I'd never had before because I was kind of good at a sport and it was cross country.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like it wasn't like the, the star quarterback or anything, but it was this like intro into like, oh, like there some here's something physical and athletic that I'm actually good at, which was kind of a first for me.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And I guess, like you know, growing up around here, most of my exposure to like exercise or sport, like for the most part was like just hiking around with my parents and kind of exploring this area Um.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I got into running and it was something that I found out I was relatively good at and it definitely um kind of moved the trajectory of my very young adult life in a in a certain direction.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And in high school I was really lucky to be a part of um, a really good series of teams at Palmer Ridge high school.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, back when we were, we were pretty good.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I think we won state three of the four years I was there under uh, kelly Christensen, who's a great coach.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: He actually went to Western Okay, he was the guy who kind of put me on to Western up in Gunnison and he was a national champion there in the steeplechase and he coaches Niawat now and they're really good.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But we had a really, really solid run and I just remember like I think it was my sophomore year where I was just like, okay, I'm going to practice over the summer and I'm going to show up, I'm going to buy in and see what I can do, and it just started rolling in a really cool direction.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, mountain running sort of became a part of that because my family spent a ton of time up in the mountains and I still wanted to go do those things and I still need to do my training.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So I'd end up, you know, go to.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Breckenridge for a day trip where you go camp somewhere, and I'd be like, well, I need to get my run in and we're in the mountains, I'm going to run in the mountains, and that was something that I really started to like and we did this thing in high school.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: We would host this little race between, like some local schools and this one school from, uh, like Michigan that would come out for their like altitude camp.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: They're really good.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: We do a race up the incline and I was a decent runner in high school but I wasn't like great and we had some guys on our team who were like state champions on the flat stuff and I could beat them up the incline and realize like, oh, like I'm actually disproportionately good at this whole like steep uphill thing, and there is a sport around this and that was kind of interesting to me.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Um well, I always knew you were tall, like from photos, but I didn't know you were that tall I was like now that, like the fifth had broken arrow VK, I was like this makes sense yeah.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, um, yeah.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: So then I like, yeah, went to college on a scholarship, ran for a year, um, collegiately at Western Colorado, western state back then, and uh, really enjoyed that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It was a good experience.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And then I just kind of had this crisis of like I'm living in the mountains in this like beautiful area surrounded by wilderness, and kind of running on the track every day, or like running flat every day.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And you know, I know I want to do mountain stuff post-collegiately.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: That's five years away and so like, why am I waiting?
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Like you know, the europeans aren't doing track running they're not waiting, they're not waiting they're getting into.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: You know, like, uh, guys like remi like they're getting into it when they're like, you know, 18, 17, 16, like it's like okay, like I don't need to do this track and I decided to leave.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: And, um, we have a really cool mountain sports program at western.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So it's a way to run, represent your university in these non-traditional sports.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So there's a trail running team, ski mountaineering team, nordic skiing team, bunch of like mountain biking and other things.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: And so I did the ski mountaineering and the trail running teams for a couple of years and got to like represent the university doing that.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And then in grad school at Western um, I was really lucky to run for Solomon for two years.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and that was a dream come true from a young age.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Uh, kind of track that I was on Um and I was pretty successful with it and just kind of had a really 2021, had a really good promising season, and then, uh, sort of ignored an injury through the following year until that kind of came to a head in August of of like 2022.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: And then um recognized that I, you know, finally went in for an mri and got to see that I'd really messed up my foot and, uh, what was wrong with it?
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: specifically yeah, it was plantar fasciitis, which feels really manageable on the day-to-day and yeah it was like that for like almost two and a half years and it wasn't really improving, but it wasn't really getting worse.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: But I'd finish a long run and be limping around the house like hardly able to walk, and that would happen all the time and I was just kind of like, well, I'm still fast, I'm still racing, but I always had in my head of like I'm gonna need to sort this out at some point.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So it always felt like, yeah, things are good right now, but it's unsustainable and I know that I'm not like securely in this place.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Like this is, this, is this is all happening on borrowed time, um, which was you know, pretty anxiety inducing and I just kind of felt like I just need to have my big one sign a longer contract, cause I was on a one-year contract.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Sign a bigger contract, and then you know, then maybe take the time off.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't that anyone at Solomon put that pressure on me.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: They didn't.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I put that on myself for sure.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, yeah, that dysfunction in that foot um eventually led to kind of a bit of a a tear in my plantar fascia um, and then I ended up with a stress fracture in the sesamoid on my first metatarsal like big toe mound, and that was the injury that finally pulled the plug, because that's something that one you can't run on it.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: It was a.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: It was in Norway, at the Strand of Fjord, golden Trail World.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Series.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that race, yeah.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's when I really figured out my foot was broken and it had been hurting the month leading up, and I mean more than usual, and I got running and that's really terrain where you need your feet to be pretty dialed and you know every little rock or twist.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: it was just like shooting pain through my whole leg and so I think I ran that course in like three and a half hours and it was an insane course.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I don't think I would have done too well had I been healthy, but, um, that was certainly something that like impacted my ability to like move that terrain effectively.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Um, and then and then after that, I kind of pulled the plug.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And you know, with that sesamoid injury like I've known a few people who've gotten it and you know it doesn't always come back Like you can break it in a way that really um, messes up the function in that kind of pulley under the foot- and um, and if you do, there's not much you can do for it, and a lot of people like kind of can end their running careers like that, and I've known two of my friends actually who both got that injury and it.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: They.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: They both run some now, but they they were doing a lot more before and that injury was a big.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It's a hard thing to come back from.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: It happened to me and I didn't run for like almost eight months, wow, um and, yeah, that was what were their doctors telling you like.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Were they like, first of all, who did you like?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Did you search out?
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Like people that were like top of the food chain for like fixing this, or I mean when?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you live in gunnison, it's a lot harder you do what you can, but we're lucky.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: We're like in ski country.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I saw Gloria beam.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: She was the uh Olympic team doctor for the Sochi Olympics, so she's pretty good.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: She kind of looked at it and told me like well, you're gonna have to stop running for a while.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, she's like, and you know you don't want to hear, the hardest thing to hear.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: That's what you're going to need to do.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And then you know we'll check back't hurt.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: And so I did that, um, and you know, like every two weeks was like still thinking I might run Pikes Peak and was still like just like nickel and diming my way of like, well, I'll test it next week, I'll test it next week, test it next week.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: And um, eventually I kind of recognized like, okay, if this is actually going to heal in the way that it needs to heal, I need to be okay with like taking a step back a little bit.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Um, and part of that was like letting go of this idea of like, yeah, through my young life, like running had been this huge identity.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And you know, I'm running for Solomon, I'm on a contract and I have this track and I'm still in school and so I have this, maybe this opportunity to make make a living with running, but I, it needs to happen right now, and if it doesn't, um, and I had to let that go.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is Especially so young.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Like you, you've been at 30 yet I know I now, um, and I had this idea of like well, you know, if I don't do it now, it's never going to happen.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And and then having to like let that go and recognize, like okay, like I have pushed this way too far, I've gotten into myself into a pretty bad spot and I'll be lucky if it comes back, and so I need to be the best I can be at not having a broken foot, like that's what I need to put all my energy into, and so I need to.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I picked up the mountain bike and I wasn't really training Like it was more of just like speed, outside maintenance and trying to do what I could, but, you know, also focusing on working in grad school and all the rest of that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: It was a very like chaotic and busy time in my life and so I kind of, for the first time since I was, you know, 14, I had kind of dropped running a little bit and was like, okay, maybe this doesn't come back, and who am I without this?
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: It's a terrifying thought, dude, yeah.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Trying to like get a more diversified sense of self-worth and you know my relationships and work and other things you know that aren't um, school was was a big thing and sort of working on my master's thesis and, um, I was very lucky to have those things to lean into Um, and I was really lucky that, you know, I got to a point where I was like okay, like the competitive fire feels like maybe it's out and I'm okay with that and maybe this comes back or maybe it doesn't, I'm still going to try for it, you know.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: And and it came back and I did this sort of very graded return to running program over like the course of like four months back to like a 30 minute continuous run.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I started running and then I was kind of like okay, cool, I want to sign up for some races, I want to go out, I want to start doing things started doing that and it kind of continually got better and better.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: And then I sort of realized like oh yeah that fire's like back Um and that really crystallized itself at this past year at um Pikes Peak Ascent.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I think I was like it was 30th.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I think I ran like a two, 27.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It's the slowest time I've ever run up.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You put up a very emotional post afterwards.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Would you like unpack that a little bit.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: So it was, you know, after all of this stuff that happened, um, you know, I was freshly out of a relationship, um, I was, you know, out of school, kind of trying to figure out who I was running, was kind of coming back.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: But it was, you know, 50th at broken arrow in a race where I've never finished outside the top 10 and you know three, four years ago and there was like okay, that's a big, big reality check.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: And you know three, four years ago and there was like okay, that's a big, so you pay it to the ego big reality check and you know you're, you're running and you're you're kind of back in the mid pack and you know you're like dang, did I deserve that elite entry?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and um went to kendall mountain and did all right, I think I was like six um, but I looked at like the times and I was like man, like I'm, I've been so much faster, I know I'm not at that level and then to go back to pikes and like you know, for I ran like yeah, it was the slowest time I've gotten up that mountain in a race by a couple of minutes, um, but I remember I got to like, I got to like a frame or just below a frame and I passed, uh, francisco poopy.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Um and he was kind of.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: He came back in an insane way and passed me on the upper mountain he was like lying down on the side of the throne.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I passed him holy shit I stopped.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I was like hey, do you need anything?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: He's like no, he's like today I die yeah I was like dang okay, um.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And then, like somewhere around the cirque he just came motoring past me and like cry back from the dead.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I have no idea how he did that.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: It's so impressive, wow, um but it was only person I've ever heard that like has been able to do that.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah well, especially up there, it's like if you yeah, I kind of assume when you pass people above around treeline.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: You don't usually see him again but I, yeah, I was back running with, like you know, like garrett corcoran and darren thomas, and like I felt like I was with my peers again and I had this moment of like yeah, around a frame like started like tearing up, and it was just this feeling of being like lifted by that whole experience and everyone who had like believed in me.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And then the fact that like I loved this thing and I trusted that it would come back, I trusted that love enough to let it go and for and that the right thing would happen from that Cause I always thought it would come back, but I didn't know and I knew that I had to put myself in a headspace of like I'm not going to worry about running, and part of that is letting this go and then hoping that it comes back and it came back and to feel that like, oh gosh, like I'm like my old self in this old place you know hometown race.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Like I grew up here and it's always been a big, a big meaningful race to me.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: It was just super, super emotional.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I was a wreck at the top for like a good hour I love it talk to people.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, it was, it was this moment of like.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, like I, I trusted, I had faith that, like my love for this ran deeper than just circumstance and that I could be securely attached enough to to it, to like let it go and and that it would come back in the right way.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And that was a really poignant life lesson, I think, dude what a what a story like.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: There's so many things I we could and that was a really poignant life lesson, I think, dude, what a story.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: There's so many things we could unpack from that.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And thank you, I was nervous because I didn't want to interrupt you.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I wanted you to just keep going.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: It's so good I can ramble.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: You can always cut me off.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, you're good man.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so there's a lot to talk about from this.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I think it would be important to kind of unpack the story and go back in time.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Um, I'd like to talk about western and what you're so.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Um, you studied a very specific thing for graduate school, which was high altitude yeah, altitude.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Exercise, physiology, exercise physiology, which is very unique and really cool.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: The second thing I do want to highlight is, like man like Cam Smith, you, whitfield, like a lot of, like amazing athletes that the mountain running world has seen has come out of there, what do you think that secret sauce is?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: What is it with Western that we're getting these athletes?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It has a really great.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Now I remember it has a really great running tradition.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Gunnison and Western I mean Western's produced some Olympians over the years and I mean, yeah, in the mountain running world, like Timmy Parr is a Western alum.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Is he really?
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he won.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I know he still lived there, but I didn't know he was an alum.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: He won Leadville and Pikes Peak Ascent in the same year back-to-back weekends.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Jesus.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Christ Was one of the OG Hoka guys.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Josh Eberle, multiple World Cross and World Mount running teams.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Adidas Terex athlete.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: He's a Western alum Jeshrin, Small, top OCC male American time at OCC.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: He's Western.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Brian's Western.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I'm Western.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Gordon.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Cole Campbell too.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Cole Campbell's Western, I'm Western, Um.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Gordon uh Cole Campbell too, cole Campbell's Western.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Um, so there's a lot of I think it's um, it's obviously, it's like it's a high altitude place, it's like a culture.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like the culture.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: There's a culture of it.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: There's tons of, tons of trails.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I mean like from your door, like world-class stuff, um, you know, and we have more like flowy kind of desert trails down in Gunnison and then you drive 20 minutes in the average rain, falling doubles, and you're in this like total Alpine playground.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: That's super cool and very reminiscent of Europe.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: So it's a neat little like microclimate and there's also like there's nothing to do in Gunnison.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: It's true, you just drive through it on your way to the San Juan's.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I always kind of thought, like you know, this place is very simple and there's nothing, except for the things that matter to you, like the people that matter to you and the things that you like to do, and that can be double-edged right.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Like you know, that can be a you, can you could have a serious drinking problem in a place like Gunnison but if you, if your drug of choice is running you could have a serious running problem, I think a lot of people in Gunnison have a serious running problem.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's really cool and it's very like.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: As much as like Colorado is this super like active place and you go places and you're like, wow, people are so fit, they're so this.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Like you go to gunnison and it's like that to the 10th degree, where you know you'll see, you know your, your landlord, who's in his like 50s and he's going and biking like 70 miles after work or something and like, and he's not like a professional athlete, but they're just these crushers around the town and the valley and um.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stevie kramer lives in like cb south, I'll see her at the supermarket and oh wow, I'm always just like, oh my god, it's stevie kramer trying to have to like fanboy because she's amazing yeah um.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: so yeah, it's a really cool, it's a really cool culture and environment and it's a great place to train.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's high altitude, there's tons of access, you head, you know, 40 miles in any direction and you're up at 14,000 foot peaks and um, you guys are very close to San Luis on the South, Like you can get to.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: you can do a lot of stuff.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: You can get to Lake city in like 40, 45 minutes.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, yeah, my buddy Jacob Dewey's also from there he uh, yeah, he, uh, he's a crusher and he um, yeah, he drives pretty fast, so he'll get you to lake city in like 30 minutes.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, it's scary, but um, yeah, I think it's.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's a really good place.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of distractions, there's no nightlife or anything.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I mean there's there's flip night, wednesday nights, there's a what is?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: that it's a local gas station called power stop and you can go flip for a beer and like the whole college scene is there Wednesday nights and that's kind of the only thing that happens.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So it's like, well, you've got all this time on your hands and you're right there, it's all out your door, so you might as well train, and there's definitely a good culture of it there and a lot of great athletes who've come up through there.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you about your role, are you?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: You're the manager at western right for the team.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm uh technically the mountain sports coordinator.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, so mountain sports operations really.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So I uh organize all of the like travel and purchasing and um, helping plan out team trips and occasionally traveling with the teams if a coach can't go for whatever reason.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I got to go out to Mount hood, oregon, with our ski mountaineering team.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I saw that, really fun it's cool, cool business trip.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Um, so, yeah, I, I do that.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And then Kevin Geisen, who was a incredible ultra athlete in his own right.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Um, I've never seen someone who can eat and run like him.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, the director.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: So we came up through Western, we were on the team together for like a year and now we kind of run the whole program, which is funny because we're, like I still feel like a student sometimes.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, it's kind of really nice to just be able to evolve like out of grad school and go into that role.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah it was cool.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: You know, it was like I spent like six months doing odd jobs and around the valley and I realized like okay, with my degree, like I could go work at a lab in denver.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: But I don't know that I want to go live in denver right now.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: And here's a way to stay in the valley.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: That's not just you know a piece together, seasonal work for a few years and it's it's fine, but there's a level of anxiety of like what's the next thing and is it stable?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and so now to have like a job at the university.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: It's like I just know what it's going to be every day and I can really like plan my summer out, plan my life out like I've got this stable ground.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And now that I have this stable ground, like you know, my ability to like get off center and go out and do something is a lot higher than it was when I was just like trying to constantly manage stuff at home yeah, get a new job every three months.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Do you get summers off?
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: How does that work?
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: It's a little slower in the summer.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: We're still, we're still work, so you get time then, yeah, yeah.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I mean we have, we have good, we have Western's got good benefits.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of that.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Faculty gets the summer off.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: We kind of slow down in ahead of everything so when we do get into the year, it's like not as, not as crazy, but it lends itself very well.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: There's freedom for racing yeah, there's a lot of that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's not quite full academia of like you're all in in the winter and then you get this three months off, but it's like it's a little bit of the ebb and flow of like, yeah, when students are here it's busier, you're around more, your ability to leave is a little lower, and then you know when you, when it comes time for the summer, it's like, yeah, if you got to be gone for a while, you can be gone for a while I love it which is great.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: It's a great fit I'm a big fan, yeah, all right.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: So I really like I'm glad you you unpacked it perfectly that was what I wanted to um kind of get into and eberly.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Josh eberly is still involved with that right, yeah, he's the.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: He's the coach of, uh, the trail team and still an adidas terex runner, and yeah how does that work?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: so terex has a partnership with with the school right.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it's eberly has kind of spearheaded all of that, um, and you know, we're the only school in the country that has like a trail running program and it's this very like novel thing and um, he's managed to wrangle quite a bit of support, uh, for the teams which is awesome.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Uh well, you know, send like all of their summer travel Most of that's Tarek's like they'll go to like GoPro games, they'll go out to broken arrow and then they'll crew for a Tarek's athlete at Western States.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I think some of them helped out with like Timmy Olson, like when he did his PCT um, which is, you know, really cool.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that all came kind of after my time it was in the works when I was a student on the team but it is full-fledged now.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Both of my younger siblings are on that team and they get more free gear than I do now.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So it's fun how the tables have turned on that.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Did Lindsay Herman go there too.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Herman did as well, jesus Christ, I can't forget.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Did lindsey?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I think lindsey hurt did lindsey herman, go there, lindsey herman did as well, jesus christ, I keep forgetting.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Maddie hart also went there.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, um yeah, there have been some, uh, really incredible athletes who've come out of that damn dude, what a like it's so great partner ellie walton.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: She was a great runner too.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she can.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow yeah, like there's so many athletes, it's incredible.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, cam smith, who's incredible.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, cam Smith, who's yeah, yeah, and then you have Is there any word on?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Is he going to be back at Broken Arrow this year?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I think he's doing the Triple Crown I saw him at the grocery store a few like a month ago.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I remember he had like.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: He had like an elbow injury or a shoulder a rush before, I think two winters ago, and um did his knee at a world cup race, acl.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Came back from the ACL, was back racing in Europe on the world cup this winter and I think when I talked to him it sounds like he he could obviously tell this story a lot better.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: But I think he tweaked his shoulder in like a heavy lifting thing and then it kind of came out in a bad way during the sprint race.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And so he had to get in a surgery.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Um, and I think he's had like some type of labral repair surgery in that shoulder before, and so it was just like redoing it um, but he can run lifting.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you can run, he can run, so um yeah, and he always.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Every year I'm like I'm in good running shape, like cam's gonna be at this race, but I think I can get him.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And every year cam just puts me away he's so fucking good he's so fit.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, he the, the volume he can do on skis is really incredible, is it?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: You know there's like 80, 80 000 feet a week yeah, you know christ over the winter like those big base blocks.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: It's, it's it's probably so pretty undeniable yeah he's got it.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: He's got a big engine.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Um, it'll be fun to fun to race him this summer I going to say.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I was leaning into.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: It's always cool.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: There's all these Gunnison Valley people.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And it's such, this obscure place that you're like looking at a podium and you're like, oh, there's like four or five of us here and like that's kind of funny, it is cool yeah.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: It just speaks to the culture of the area.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: 24 season a little bit.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, you've had a few races already.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: You were just at desert rats where you had an amazing performance.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Like what a stoop.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Did you wait?
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Was Eli in the 50 K or was he the 21 K with 21 K oh.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: God, okay, so you had, and which field was there?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who else was there.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So it was Eli Brian Jesserine.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, france Kevin, I forget his last name.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Um he's quick, he's really good.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Um Cade Michael, who is also a western alum he was on the cross country team there.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Now he's part of Andy Wacker's trail team okay, he's a.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: He's a standout runner and can put away some.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I was just talking nasty volume.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: He's gonna be coming on.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's great, yeah, he can?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: he can give you the full rundown on all that.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just the western tour but yeah, dude um yeah, there it was a good field.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Josh was in that race and it went out hard.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Honestly, the way it all finished out the course markings.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: They'd left up 50K course markings and so we all ended up running in the wrong direction for a bit.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: At one point, Eli and Brian ended up behind us.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Oh shit.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Gerald Mock was also in that race.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Dude, that's a gift 209 marathoner oh shit.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Gerald Mock was also in that race, dude, that's a gift.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: 209 marathoner Would Eli end up behind you?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: That's a gift?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, they came up behind us and there was a group of us kind of on that climb and I should have sucked it up and done some heat training for that race.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: But coming off a season of skiing and living in Gunnison, 70, 80 degrees feels pretty hot.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, going grease feels pretty hot.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, going up that last climb I blew up.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: So hard but finished seventh and, dude, you had amazing performance.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like okay, this is the first running race since moab half and at moab half similar a little bit of a faster course or in a little slower.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I was 10th at that national, which you know, I, I know I'm quicker than that, but I was just like okay, like we're getting back, I'm still missing a gear and then going out to desert rats and like, yeah, mixing it up and and before we all took the wrong turn, like I was kind of catching people and like you know, I was like with jessren and catching up to kade, and caught up to kade and was like feeling really solid, like cool, I can put some distance on on people right now.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, I just feel like that was the first time since really 2021 where I felt like, oh, I'm actually like attacking here, I'm not just covering moves and on the ropes holding on for dear life.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Like I actually feel like I'm in this race and I can compete and I can actually like put some pressure on people and and and see what happens with it.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Um, which was a really, really great feeling.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, ran that well and and it's early season didn't do too much specific work for that race at all.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Um, you know a lot of skiing, a lot of biking and then some you know like 50, 60 mile weeks of running and uh, so, yeah, I'm excited.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Uh, the seasonal open up this year at uh, gopro yeah so 10k and peppies which is fun.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I'll be with you at peppies.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great awesome that's a big prize purse I'm like I'm excited, man.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, payday I'd be real happy with that oh, yeah, um yeah, so that'll be a fun one.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, and then broken arrow is probably the first like real sort of big, big race do that vk like I love the vk there, so that must be the most stacked.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I mean that, I don't know.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I say I feel like I say this about every goddamn race that we have, because every year more people from europe come over or like sport is exponentially growing.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Oh my god jim's in it this year that's what I was gonna say, like oh my god um, yeah, dude, what a, what a field like that's incredible.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I'm so, so excited you get, I mean, simone Gosling, like he's coming over, like, uh, cause he's in Western States also, it's going to be interesting to see, like, oh, dude and um, who's that kid?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Christian Allen.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my God, he's a world dominator as well.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: So now it's going to be good Cause, like you're back to like full health.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like darren thomas is pretty much back too, right, yeah, darren darren's back.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: He gosh, what right he ran it.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, it was big alta.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I think he was like second or third yeah yeah, I think he was second, I think he was right behind eli, eli yeah, and it wasn't by much.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, and darren, like when he's, when he's good, he's, he's really good, so he's so underrated um as an athlete in the sport like, and he struggled with injury.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: We had similar injuries for a long time and, um, it's funny, we were actually in a play group together in collider springs growing up and we didn't know it until we both ran for solomon and then our parents ran into each other at a race and there's pikes, peak marathon thing, like 2020 or something and they're like, oh my gosh, like hey, it's been forever.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And they're like, oh my gosh, like hey, it's been forever.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: And then they're like, yeah, you guys used to play together all the time.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: All these pictures of us on like the same little youth soccer team and that's so crazy.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's it's really funny, Cause we just totally you know, did our own things, conversation with him.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: I gotta get him on the pod because he's great.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: He's an interesting, interesting person.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's had a cool track with it and he's someone who I definitely like, really respect and look up to in the sport and his like versatility to like go do mountain marathon and be, like you know, top three there every year or something and then go run, you know, ultra trail, cape town and do well, there it's like, that's really cool.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It's got a lot of range.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: And I feel like dylan bowman, like other people, like I feel like people notice like he's.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: You know, yes, you too, dude.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like every time I watch it I'm always cheering for, like the local dudes, like, especially if it's like on the not last year because I was at broken arrow, but in prior years when we have the live stream like it's so much fun to like cheap people on.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's awesome, yeah, yeah so all right, uh, dude, let's talk about your coach.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Coach by anime flynn, right yeah, yeah, she's coming on soon.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: That's awesome yeah, I, I'm super excited to talk to her.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how's that going?
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: How's like, how, how's the build going as far as?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Like I know you kind of like talked about it a little bit, but yeah, it's really good.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: It's so different to how I normally approach things.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Um, I was self-coached for a long time, um, especially after I left NCAA.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I just kind of did my own thing, and then we do coaching with Josh Eberle through the trail team, and then the summers I would just do my own thing, which looked like ultra training for the ascent and it's always a bit weird.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, there's a big emphasis with.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I see it this way.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Like I have a master's degree in this stuff, like I know how to train, but I'm too close to myself to be objective, I think, sometimes, where it's like I could catch myself, you know, oh, all of a sudden I saw something on Strava and so now I need to do that or I need to do this, or this isn't enough, and and you know, like you're so close to it and the emotion of it can like kind of lead you down some some bad areas.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So I think that the accountability is really good in terms of like not doing too much and kind of holding back a little bit.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, we could be running a hundred miles a week right now, but it's you know may the season's going to go through November.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: So you know, we need to kind of balance that, and we're also running shorter races, like we're not running Western States or anything like that.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: So I um, yeah, I really liked her approach.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's been very development focused and kind of like, you know, we could have it all in a year and then end up with a bunch of stress fractures and be back in square one, and I sort of had that year 2021 where it's like I felt like I had it all in that year and it was all going and that didn't really matter because I wasn't healthy.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Um, and so she's someone who I really I trust her guidance and her uh, her belief in like what we both think I can do in the sport yes, is really empowering.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, a lot of uh, a lot of intervals, a lot more track work, a lot of lifting weights and things that, yeah, forever I was just the guy who would go jog in the mountains and maybe do a couple strides and that was just my training and and it was fine, um, but I feel like I have so much more specific there's a lot of low-hanging fruit in terms of specificity.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: And also, just like I have a strength coach uh, her name's emma cantrell she's the she's the weights coach at uh csu for all of their that's just you for cons for all of their stuff.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: We're in grad school together, okay I?
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: uh, did you notice a difference when you started lifting?
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: oh huge right, yeah, this was the first year running economy.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this was the first year I started doing the same thing and, dude, it changed the game for me I was like what the fuck yeah.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: And then it's also fun feeling like I don't know, I've always been this like, really like I still am, but like this, really like twiggy guy a little muscle, a little stronger.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like I can, I can lift some things now and like I can uh, yeah, stuff I haven't always been able to do, um, so it's kind of fun and I definitely feel a difference, um, especially in just the turnaround from workouts, like you know the recovery is quicker back in.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: You know I was doing a bunch of volume.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: It was mostly slow.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I'd go, you know, do some speed, work flat and like my calves would be jacked for like six days.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And now it's like I can go do 300s on the track and then go hit, you know, three by three minute hills, turn around the next day and run 12 miles and like my legs are fine wow, don't hurt um, so yeah, a lot, a little more intensity, a little more um specificity and then a lot more cross training.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: So, um, I've gotten into nordic skiing over the past two years, um, which has been really cool, so so fun, it's great and living in Gunnison you know, you don't it's a real Nordic skiing.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: That's the golf course we got here.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: If you have to run through the winter.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: You're some people do and I've done it.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I kind of fun dude.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, it's like okay, like I'm getting the hang of this new sport and it's it's the only cross training I've done and ski mountaineering.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Um, I was.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I was fifth at nationals in the vertical and third at y easter, which was a us cup race, and I was pretty damn dude right behind jeff moguvero who's a freak, by the way amazing and and just in front of, uh, my good friend max king, okay um, yeah which I think that might be the first time I've ever beaten max in anything um and it was only just.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, it was.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Um, it's cool.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: It's the only like kind of cross training that I think is like harder than running like I'm actually probably fitter in january than I am any other time of the year like just raw fitness because you're, you know, skate skiing at 9 000 feet two hours a day dude.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you see, people like david norris is a great example, sam hendry like these guys sofia lockley yeah, incredible, totally fit people and it just makes sense.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: So it does and I think it's like a good it's good mental break and it's nice to like have the focus shift.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: It's like I can be really specific and intentional about mountain running.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: When you can run in the mountains, yep, and then, as soon as winter rolls around, it's a good break for the body and a good break for the mind and and also just like a really fun way to train in a place that otherwise, you know, if I was just running, I'd probably not live in a place that otherwise, you know, if I was just running, I'd probably not live in a place like Gunnison, because it's not a great place for year-round running, not year-round.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: It's really cold and it's really snowy and icy.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: That's what everybody says.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Is that like the cold air, kind of like comes off the San Juan and just sits there?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: It's the third coldest town in the one of the coldest towns in the lower 48.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, this winter was not bad, but there there, my freshman year.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: There, it did not get above freezing from thanksgiving break to spring break.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Oh hell, no one time it was below freezing the whole time, I would have been out here every week, you have yeah, I remember walking to practice and it was like a minus 40 wind chill one morning and a couple days you know, and any given day it's like minus 15, minus 20 in do you guys have like indoor facilities at all?
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: we?
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: do have an indoor track.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: We have some treadmills.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Um, I'd try to go out and run in some.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I think the coldest I've run in is like minus 20 and, jesus, it's just, it's an extra layer of misery.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Um, maybe that's why everyone's so good.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: You go kind of crazy, but um, it's.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it's a tough place to train, but if you like skiing, you know I can in good winter, like they groom a bunch of stuff in town and I can like basically ski from my house.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Which is really cool, and there's not a lot of places in the U?
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: S like that.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: No, unless you're in, like, I guess, alaska.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Alaska and you know, maybe, maybe a couple of Alaskans in Gunnison.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: It's a big Alaska-Gunnison pipeline Interesting, yeah, because it's a small, cold, kind of brutal place.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: But there's more sun.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: You're going to be really tough to survive in both places.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: So all right, so not to pivot too hard.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: So we're going to be at GoPro Games, we're going to be doing the 10k, we're gonna be doing pepe's yeah, you're gonna be a broken area you're gonna be doing the vk and the 23k.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Yep, um, very excited to have you back there.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're elated and yeah, just bought bought flights through, you know and excited to go out there all right dude, so expensive, so expensive but um it's worth it.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: It is worth it absolutely.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Um next, are you going to be at Pikes this year?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so after that I've got two weeks and then I'm heading out to Salt Lake for US Mountain Champs.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: And there's a NACAC team qualifier there.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Were I to make the team and I don't know that I will, but were I to, I I wouldn't.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think I'd take the spot just because I I'm going out to sears and all um this year which is the same weekend.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the the plan as it stands is to go to have this little block go to go to mountain champs and then, after mountain champs, kind of totally just focus like no racing, just focus on sierra zanola and the focus right now is on sierra.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: What's, what's, is that end of august, early september, uh?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: it's august 10th august early mid yeah, so that's been the whole focus that anime, and I have uh charted out the big climb on like the grades and the distance and the vert on the big climate series and all, and tried to find similar stuff around like urrey and the San Juans to do simulators on and?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Kind of figure out like okay, what kind of paces do I need to be running up here?
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: That translate to running at that lower altitude at Ceres and all I was going to say.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: What is the altitude there?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: It's like 3,000?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: .
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: You start at 3 and you get up to like 8 or 9 in there.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I just made it get up to like 10 climb dude it's.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I watched it on youtube maybe.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some stuff in yeah, there's some stuff in yurei that is almost identical, it's just a little shorter, it's not quite as long, it's a little higher altitude, but it's the exact same grade for, like you know, 80 of the distance and time, and so it's like yeah, if I can, you know, get up like the stairway to valhalla segment in like I know that's the minutes, like if I can if I can do that in like 38 minutes, 35 minutes, then I can go to Sears and all and feel pretty confident about running up towards the front of the race on that big climb, which I think is where things are going to go Well, like climbing is kind of my, my bread and butter and yeah, I've always had this like thing of like I've always wanted to to do series and all and every opportunity I've had to go to europe, I've ended up doing these like very technical coastal, muddy races at sea level and just not ever doing like super well, like I did golden trail series, like the national series final and the azores in 2021, and there was one stage I did pretty well and it was like the all uphill stage and then everything else was kind of a disaster, but it was such a cool experience, um, but yeah, I'm like okay, now I'm paying my own way to get to europe and so I want to maximize, like where do I think my skill set lies?
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Where do I train?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: High altitude, dry, runnable trails with an uphill focus?
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, that's, that's sears and all.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, out of the big races that are happening over there, like that's the how long are you there for I'm gonna try to go for like two or three weeks.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Dude, you gotta do that vk.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about the fully vk.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking about going and trying to do that and I want to go do um and I kind of want to like at the week after the race.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I have this idea.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I'm gonna actually do it, but I want to like backpack, because I'll be beat up.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I probably won't be running much um, I want to just backpack the utmb route okay, um just like see the course, see the, the energy and all that um, and then come back here um and you know, keep that fitness up.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: You know if you're fit for series and all, you're probably fit for pikes, peak yeah go.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Go to the ascent.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Um, it's local, I don't have to take any pto for that and it's um, it's just such a meaningful race to me, like growing up here, like that's always kind of crystallized and going back to pikes, peak and special.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: There's unfinished business there.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Like I, I ran like a 226.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I was fifth in the ascent when I was like 19.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was 22.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I ran like a 222 in the uphill part of the marathon the year.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I was like seventh there and it's like cool have you broken in the teens yet?
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I've never broken in the teens and I'm like which one?
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: He's like a 215.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: He ran like he crushed it.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: 24, 10, 59 we did.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: We did that matt carpenter like three, two, one workout a couple weeks before the race and he put me away on that and I was like he's been up there.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I know he told me he is going to crush that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And I told him I was like, dude, you can run 214.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: He was like, oh, we'll see.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: And then he ran like 214.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I was like that's amazing man, um, and he's also really humble, so he's not gonna brag on it, but uh, he, um.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, okay, I need, I need to go run my like 215 and then maybe I can leave it alone for a few years, but I yeah I've always wanted to, just I feel like it's a good year to do it and like it matches the focus with sierras and all um, and then I'm gonna head out to kodiak 50k oh yeah, uh, utmb, try and get some points and then that's gonna be the major this year, I think, I think it is yeah, so it'll be competitive.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: It'll be really good.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's a runnable high altitude course.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I haven't raced a 50k in a long time.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: It's a super fun distance.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that I'm excited to do.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Um, it's good end it like cap the season you know, yeah, it's a really good way to cap the season.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my uh probably get yourself an occ with that right.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be the hope, uh yeah, kind of thinking more long term towards, you know, 2025 and with there being another Worlds team.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I want to kind of be diversified enough to be like cool, I can throughout a micro cycle or macro cycle, like I can target the up down champs, I can target the up champs, I can target the marathon and half marathon champs, and do you wait, you kind of try to cast a wide net.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: You were injured so you didn't go to sunupi, that's right.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: No, fuck, dude, like I was out for you are like because I was.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I really missed like two years of competitiveness.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the first race where I felt really competitive again was like um, it's probably Moab this past, back in November.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Um so that would have been, yeah, almost like two years of like.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to see you at snowbird dude.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I think that's such a runnable course too.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: It's a cool one and the Cirque series races were like those are.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I really did.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I'm doing a whole lot.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: I just won't be a snowbird cause I'm getting married on that weekend.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: But congrats, oh, thank you, that's awesome.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Other than that, I'll be at everything this year.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: So I kind of missed the the jewel, but you're going to Alyeska.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Uh, no, I am going to miss Alyeska, but I'll be, so I'll be awesome just enough to like see if I can like take a shot at the pro ranking, like for the top three.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you got it, man.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I remember like, yeah, I remember I was in high school.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I think I was a junior in high school and the year before I'd run the the a basin summit challenge.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Before it was a cirque race.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: You ran from the base up to the top of the cornice ridge and then, okay, yeah, down to black mountain lodge and that's how the race finished and I think I was like 14 or something.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: That's my first trial race.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: I, wow, demoed a pair there's some horrible pictures floating around from that like basketball shorts, and demoed dina fit shoes, okay, big heel strike, um, and I, uh some horrible like wraparound sunglasses too.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, dude, you should make that your profile.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's an OG picture, um, but I uh, yeah, I came back the following year and it was a Cirque series race and got into that and that's actually that's where I was really like, oh, like I was.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I was probably 16 or 17 years old and maybe 18.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And I was running up to little Lenawee and it was right behind Timmy Parr, and that was when I first met Timmy and he was still running for Hoka at that point.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah I think I finished like fourth or fifth in that.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I was just like a kid and Julian Carr came up to me and he was like dude, you have to come to all these races.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: He was always stoked to get me to go to those races and over the following summers I would go to a basin and I would go to Alta, um, like, go out with my family to salt Lake and run the Alta one, which I did two years in a row, um, and then, yeah, it was like the 2019, a basin one was the last Cirque race I ran and then things kind of took off from there and it was hard to squeeze into the schedule.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Now there's one that's a usatf and I'm like cool.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy they got one.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and I might.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: I might try and do the a basin one.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's the week before the ascent.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Do it, man.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be a great tune up and it'd be fun to go back to like everybody's gonna be there I had a buddy there's good money there too, it's good money.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: I had a buddy that ran the whole series last year and what I thought was interesting was that like he was like dude, colorado is just on another level, like as far as, like the, the caliber of athletes we have not to show on salt lake, but like he was just saying like the amount of like just killers that we have in this state that come out to race, that racer is wild.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we uh we definitely have the the depth, I think, no other state really.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have incredible runners in the pnw idaho, montana got some great runners, wyoming's got some good runners.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Obviously utah, arizona, new mexico it's a bunch of east coast crushers.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: But like if you were to just if you were to do like a cross-country style scoring per capita yeah, you know like a like a everyone you field your best seven and score five and every state we're have like a, like a national championship between states oh, we dominate, I think it would be like colorado, utah montana, because I think those would be the three I just had uh I don't know if you listen to the episode I had jackson brill on he's or no, sorry, jackson brill, jackson cole, um and jackson's training out in, uh, missoula and with peterman and moguero, and I'm like's a great place, dude, like what a group of people to train with, like animal.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: And that's totally like a.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I think Missoula is like really the biggest mountain town in the country, Like it's in, it's in the mountains and everybody's there Jen.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Lichter is like there as well.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: It's a great place, chris Brown.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of people place chris brown, like there's a lot of people.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, jeff browning lived up there for hours, he does.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: He might have been busman, but I think you're right.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I think he was busman, but yeah, it's uh, I don't know.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: That'd be a cool place shout out to jeff browning dude.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: That poor guy had to suffer for 250 miles he almost, almost, had it almost coming off eldon.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: It is incredible, yeah, it's gonna suck, though.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: To have to fucking battle it out in the last like three miles, that's not fun oh, no after going that far.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Pretty epic story.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, like man.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I wanted to talk to you about that you briefly touched on um, and I think it would be.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: You don't have to give any inside baseball or you could tell as much as you want is that you had run for solomon for a couple years.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know brian had told a little bit of the story as well, because he almost had an opportunity but chose not to Dude, what an incredible experience.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me to see, to talk to you now, like after it, and you seem like how do I say this?
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: You seem like you've reached another level, like where it doesn't really matter, like you're just kind of like I'm here to race, I'm here to do my thing, and if that comes to me then that's great, but like it just does, I don't know.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: You seem like very relaxed and very chill.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I've realized or always tried to like be relaxed and chill, but I mean, it was definitely like I think Brian turning down that, uh, that sponsorship opportunity was the reason I got it, Um, and or maybe we both got offered.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I never figured that out, but I remember Steph Gardner, who was a good good friend of mine.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, she reached out to me after that.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Solomon, I applied for that, like Solomon Academy, went out there Just incredible experience, you know, bright-eyed.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Courtney DeWalter and all that Courtney DeWalter's there.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: And she's as nice as she comes across in all the social media stuff.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: She's just an incredible person and I really enjoyed meeting everyone you know, jeff Stern and Olivia Amber, and Olivia Amber, and like when she was with Solomon before TNF, um, and uh, yeah, like it was this just amazing opportunity and I said yes to everything.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: I think I went and ran Lake Sonoma two weeks after Pikes Peak marathon, which for the listeners at home, bad idea, don't do that.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Really not a great turnaround, um, but it was just this incredible experience and I got to meet so many people and like really feel you know, cause I can remember being like 14 watching the old Solomon TV videos like.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Emily and Killian and, uh, just being like Solomon was the company I wanted to run for.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: It was just like dream.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: And then I was like doing it and I was going to Europe and I was racing in the shoes and I was like part of the team and it was just this incredible experience.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Um, and you know, there was this sort of underbelly of like kind of being hurt the whole time and knowing that like this isn't sustainable.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Um, but gosh, I wouldn't trade any of it and I think the place I'm in now is it might be a little bit of like frontal lobe development of like, just like.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Oh like it's okay.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: How old are you?
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: You know 25.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, dude, you have like so much time.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so I, you know, I had that sponsorship and it wasn't like I was.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm I'm not at liberty to discuss everything about it, but like uh, you know, I wasn't like making a living right, but I wasn't.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: I had a lot of opportunities to travel that I would not have had otherwise and and got to do a lot of things that you know I think about like, yeah, I was a broke college kid getting to travel to Portugal.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: It's life changing yeah.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Go over to Europe, go to Norway, like, see Scandinavia, and like just these things that I would have never done otherwise, that I think of as like all time life experiences that would not have happened if it weren't for Solomon.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And so I am so grateful for that chapter and like what I learned and you know the fact that it ended, and you know it wasn't like a like a personal thing.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: The team was pretty big.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a broken foot, you didn't have a great season of results, you're pulling out of races and you don't know when you're going to come back.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: And you know we're trying to hold on to max and courtney and you know people on the upper echelon and you know it's like there were quite a few of us who were kind of newer in the team who sort of ended up kind of getting getting not renewed, um, and some people kind of stayed on and then like an ambassador context and for me it was like I've done that and I I don't know that I need to do that again.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I'd rather kind of make my own way and also, just with where I was, with my headspace, with the injury, I was kind of like the fact that I don't have a sponsor is actually probably good yeah, it's a clean now I can like like no one is expecting me to come back or do anything on any timeline and I can't put that expectation on myself because of a sponsor like.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: So it was probably good that it ended when it did.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, incredible opportunity, great people at Solomon, north America.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Um, I really enjoyed, uh, like Preston Cates and Steph Gardner and oh, I didn't know, preston was on that team.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: He was on that team.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a wild man, dude, yeah, an incredible runner, um, and yeah, it was just great, like you know, getting him, yeah, like Jamil Corey and like all those people, like it was really really cool to be a part of that team in the way that I was, um and yeah.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Then you know, it ended in and that was hard.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like a oh yeah, whatever, like I was pretty broken up.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Oh for sure, dude, I was probably more broken up about the fact that I couldn't run than that.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Like that was the first thing.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: I was like I don't even know if I'm gonna run again.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: So like, of course I lost my sponsorship.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, and so now?
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have people who will reach out and ask like who?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Like, anytime I post a picture and there's like shoes in it, they're like who's the new sponsor?
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: who's that?
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm like I've seen them like nordism stuff and I wanted to like it was like I haven't done anything of note really what I would think of as yeah, yeah um, it's obviously all relative, but you know, in like a couple years I'm like, yeah, I don't really um, I don't really know that like I'm not pursuing anything right, when the time is right, the time is right.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like dating it's kind of like yeah, it's like okay, like I've got my things and I need to be okay doing this on my own and have that piece of sand on my own, and then you know, don put the, don't put the cart in front of the horse, like let the results come and see what happens.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Quick question, so like.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: So now I know like what I was going to say before.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Like one of the things that I know I have struggled with in the past is linking that sponsorship with, like, with running, and then making both of those things an identity.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and overcoming that, I think, has been one of the like.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I was on a one-year deal last year, I'm on a one-year deal again.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of stress to it and like that's that is what it is.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: You're aware.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: You know how that works, like the way the industry runs exactly, and like I mean I I had like such a hard time last year where I I'm like I went to talk to a sports psych in like September because I really wasn't sure, like you don't know what the future is going to hold.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: You know, and I really struggle with that, and to see you just like very chill and like accepting and like on the other side of it, you know it like makes me like, like like when that time does come, like feel pretty good and you know you don't know the journey of life and that's the way it works you know, like yeah, I doesn't define you as a runner, no, or or as a person, right, like I think it's.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: It's very difficult and you know it's the.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: There's a saying like every athlete dies twice right yeah and it's you know, when you stop your sport, when you stop being competitive, and then when you actually die and I was lucky to maybe go through a bit of an early death or a near death experience- athletically we could call it.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: That gave me a lot of perspective on like okay, there's like a depth to who I am that far exceeds anything that I do and the relationships that I have.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: You know, like, the people who love me don't love me because I run.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Right, and it's a huge part of who I am.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: You're just you're.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: But like that's the thing, like I had to realize that I'm, I'm, you know, a fiance, I'm a brother, I'm a son, and those running is just something I just enjoy, yeah, and and also, like I look at like, yeah, like most of us, you know for the most part, like we're not, we're not raking in these crazy deals so at some point, like it should be something that adds value to your life, that should be fun and joyful and a place to really like let running be what it should be and the fact that, like Brandon and I had a good conversation about this the other day you know we both work full time and our lives don't depend on this, so we can go, we can take big risks at big races.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It can blow up in our face.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: We've still kind of got our normal lives that aren't really perturbed by that at all, and so it allows the dream to be what it should be, which is a dream where you can really push it and chase it, and if it does become that, that's great, and if it never does, that's okay, it's still great.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're still in this place, you're.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're in this place where it's like you can let running be what it should be and you can also, you know kind of push you can push yourself with and be okay with failing, because if you fail it's not like oh shoot, I'm not feed my family yeah.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Or this is my career track and there is no plan B, right, like you know those are.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: I think that's a very like anxiety inducing place to be in.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and I also had this idea in my head too.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: That was like, well, if I don't make it happen now, it's never going to happen, and I was like, okay, I'm 25.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Dude, you have so much time.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: I had a good conversation with Anna May and was just kind of like, oh man, the fire is back.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I want it all in a way that I haven't in a really long time, and that's really cool, that it's kind of naturally come back.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're all very.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Trail running in particular, I think, is a very high-identity sport, yes, where there's a lot of a lot of identity, a lot of ego people spending $300 on speed lanes to signal to everyone.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding, I'm sure speed lane's great.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I've never tried them.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: But I mean I wear Nordis so I can't really talk.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: But um, you know it's, it's very high identity sport where you try to.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: You know we really build and with the role that social media plays, we really build up these almost like caricatures of ourselves.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I say with my like long hair and it's called your sunshine yeah, um, so you know, it's definitely like you do have to be careful, like I think you know, allowing your identity to be this flexible thing and and figuring out other things that you love and that you do well, like, um, darren thomas has this he might hate me plugging this, but he has this uh instagram account where where he just does paintings of dogs in Reno and he's an incredible painter.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Really he's a really good painter.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I had no idea that existed.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: He'll do these like self-portraits of people's dogs.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: They'll send him photos and they're beautiful, they're amazing.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: And it's this whole artistic endeavor that has nothing to do with running, and for me, like I would never have thought he'd be like an artistic dude.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: That's why I've never seen that.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I think he has a geology degree, right, yeah, he's very science-y and you know.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: But like.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: So it's really cool to see and like you see those little things where it's like, oh, you have this, like you're diversifying the portfolio of and do that, and so I go like play open mics in Gunnison and I'm like trying to play a couple shows this summer and like have this whole other.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I go to an open mic and no one knows me as like, oh my gosh, he used to run for Solomon or he used to do this or he's going to show up at this race and do this.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: They're just like, oh, that's that guy who sings those really sad folk songs, like there he is, um, and it's cool to just have this like totally different person and identity and and thing that you know it's like it's like a real hobby?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: yeah, like a that is a real hobby anxiety inducing and it's fun to be a beginner at something or like try to do other things, be amateur and like be okay with like messing it up and bombing and failing and just like yeah we lack so much like playfulness in our daily lives.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: We put so much pressure on everything and it's like there's so much importance to like joy and playfulness and being kind of silly and failing at things and just not taking yourself so seriously.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: And that's a big regret from my like early 20s, in a lot of things not just running like relationships and all of it like, yeah, I took myself so seriously and it was never really that serious.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: And now it's like I'm in this place where I feel so much lighter and younger and happier and running's going better than it has in a long time, and I think those two things are related, I think yes, I think those things are two things really, and I think it makes you very dangerous on the race field.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that I'm excited to see where that goes.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: So on that we're already at an hour, so I don't want to take up too much of your wild Friday night.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you got going on.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: I'm meeting Brian at six.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Are you really Okay?
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: We're going to go run around herman, oh shit, okay, you can wait for a few minutes.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Got another, all right, so we'll end it on this.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: We'll get some questions on um.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Who inspires you, man?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: gosh, so many people, so many people.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: Um I think I mean in the sport, like darren's a huge inspiration.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Um I think, uh, I've met uh killian and emily a few times wow emily forsberg is a huge inspiration, just her whole approach to everything and the way she kind of views it like she's had kids and like she comes back and she's just like she.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: there's a great video out there somewhere of killian's instagram story of me running and emily blowing past me at Stronda two years ago and that's my moment of fame.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, she's someone I definitely really look up to.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Um, I think the kind of person I look up to is the person who, like, they're really good runner and they also have a family, they have a job, they have all of these other things like um, you know, tyler Green, rachel Drake like I think they're both school teachers I know tyler green is and it's like that's so cool that you have this, like you have this balance and you have these things that are like, yeah, you love this thing, but you have something that's like also more important to you you could do both.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: You could do many things.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: You can do both.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: You could be a dad, you could be yeah, you don't have to sacrifice everything about being a well-rounded whole person to be a good athlete.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: So anyone who embodies that, you know, I really look up to and yeah.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: And then, more personally, like you know, I think you know my brother inspires me.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: He's really just kind of carved his own path in life and, you know, didn't go to college and kind of did his own thing and he's someone I really look up to, um, and yeah, I mean like the, the, the kids that I work with in mountain sports, like their openness to trying new things, their openness to failing and then watching that, because they're open to failing, they develop all these skills that maybe I didn't develop cause I didn't want to fail, and I'm like dang, that's so cool, like I'm learning something from you.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I mean I find inspiration in like pretty much everyone.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: I know, like there's just there's something about how everyone approaches life.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: That has this like just just little difference in wisdom to it.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: That, like I want to learn from and pull from.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: And you know I but I really do admire the people who, like, are whole people and we all are right, but they, they also personify that with their running and they're like yeah, like you know, this thing is also like Scott Fable, for instance like his whole thing has always been like yeah, it's like I don't make the trials, like my girlfriend still loves me.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Like so I can go out and blow up and it doesn't matter and it's like that's awesome, that's the mindset, that's the kind of stuff that I kind of want to, you know, like live up to, and I think it's super cool, I love it.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, on that, you've got to raise some of the best in the world.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: You've been lucky.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Who is your mountain running goat?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Male and female?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, oh gosh, that's so hard.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Female, I feel like female is easier.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I've always can answer female easier.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: I mean female like Courtney, for sure, Like she's just she's just incredible.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: But you can Courtney's pretty undeniable Um, and I do know her personally and she's such a kind, genuine person and she came and gave a talk at Western, actually through like a blister speaker series.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: I saw her after and she was like Karen ran actually through like a blister speaker series.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I saw her after and she's like karen ran up and hugged me.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: All of my friends were like oh my god you know, courtney, I was like yeah, she's really cool.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, courtney, for sure.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: And then I got on the men's side like, oh, man, there's, there are so many like incredible runners, like what was it like you don't have to answer this, but or what was it like?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: what is jonathan albin like, racing him, like, oh, I wouldn't, I mean he, I mean he was, I saw, I saw he's an incredibly diversified strong runner and I was just clearly he amazes me, british guy living in norway knows how to run in mud like it's just incredible.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, on the men's side, I don't know like, I think pablo v hill is like an incredible like american mountain running legend and it's kind of underrated for like what he did.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Like, uh, he's, he's a friend of mine and he's kind of been a good mentor.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm so targeting Sears and all like, yeah, ben Townsend brought him up, so that was the only.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: He's the.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: I love that photo of you guys.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: You look like his doppelganger.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: There is a there is a yeah, there's a picture of us in Mellie's.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: That's a funny story.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: I was like going out to, I'd gone out to Kendall mountain and, uh, had kind of met up with Zach Miller and we sort of androgynously knew each other from the Springs when he worked at park camp and I lived down here and, um, you know, raced out there and he was like here's my phone number, like you're coming out for the race next week, right, I was like, well, I got to go back to gunny and work, but I'll be back, and came back and he just dropped a pin up cross gulch.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: And I ended up cross gulch like midnight after work and we had some like pancakes in zach's van.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: And then woke up the next morning and put in my contacts and saw Jim and Jess like set, like setting up their, their whole breakfast station with their forerunner, and I was like, oh my God, that's Jim Walsley.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Um, and that was really cool and they're super like gracious people.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, jess, jess is super cool.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Um, she gives me kudos on Strava sometimes.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like this is great.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, I think, like the way that he's like approach things and watching his openness to like changing as an athlete, you know, like going from being like the really like kind of brash young guy who was like hotheaded and all the rest of it, to like this very like wise, mature, calculated, measured and more relaxed kind of runner, and then seeing the success that that's brought and like I don know, I love when people because I feel like we all kind of you know build our brands and attach to those and like I love seeing people like grow and change and willing to change at least yeah, and it's like yeah, you should probably be a different person at 25 than you were at 20 and at 35 than you were at 25.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Like, if you know, if I were still the same person I was when I was 19 first getting into this, that would be kind of weird.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be a little strange.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that I feel like I can evolve and change and so when I see someone like of that level and magnitude kind of take those risks and change and grow and be so willing to learn, yeah, like I watched this documentary.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, three times.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm on three as well um, where it's like, yeah, that willingness to learn and endear yourself to the community and and sort of admit that you don't, even if you're really good, like yeah, I don't know anything, I have something to learn from everyone, and like I think that's just really cool the wild thing at the end, when he was like when zach had passed him at utmb.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was that close to like him dropping out.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Neither did I, but I thought it was really interesting where he was.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Like you, I just got to run my own pace and we'll see what happens.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: And then he wins.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: This Comes back from the dead and wins the race.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my God, this is like the hero's journey, right?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: I was like watching it with my little sister, and she and I were both like getting emotional.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: We were like oh dude, I totally teared up at the end.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: This is so good.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was amazing, it's really cool.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, on that, I don't want to keep you, I don't want to keep a Whitfield waiting.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: It's 530.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: We can wrap it up naturally as you like.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: All right, so we'll give it.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: We'll give it one more question what's your take on grizzly bears in Colorado?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I feel like there could be some in the San Juans.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: I know there was that like last san juan grizzly that was supposedly shot by that archer in like the 90s right, that's right, ed wiseman bear.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know your history, do I?
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: I will go down these like wikipedia rabbit holes about, like every bear attack in north america where they happened, why, I don't know why this is like a summer ago I did this.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know no, I'm completely sober, I was just going through.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's midnight, I could do this, um, but I don't know.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: When you're out in the same ones, it's like it's so remote and it's so empty and there's so much rugged, like wilderness country to move through.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: It's like I would be.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if there were to be like you know, 10 years from now, just be like.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: You know 10 years from now, just be like.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, actually there's this little population that we didn't know about, and whenever there is a fatal bear attack in Colorado, it's always a black bear in the San Juans.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: It's never a black bear in Manitou.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: It's never a black bear.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: It's like those are the same black bears, ostensibly, so maybe, who knows?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Um, I think they're out there.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I'm so happy you said that.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: So like and you know what's so crazy so like, every time I'm driving out to the san juans, that area, like once you pass like saparino, and you kind of go over the bridge and like you're gonna go over that pass and like you really like start to realize like you're, you're very close to the san juans before you make that right and go after montrose.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, but like, and you realize, to the south of you there's nothing till like creed maybe there's, like the powder horn, wilderness area which is the least visited wilderness area in the lower 48.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: It's the largest piece of tundra in the lower 48 no shit and it's like 40 minutes from my house.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like dude, I haven't been up there at all, so I'm gonna go chart out some I mean strava heat maps don't help you much in the wild, like that like there's no one gets out there, but timmy parr has got some routes out there so I've been picking his brain oh yeah, you gotta have him take the lakes and yeah, we need to get out there and have a have a weekend um the bridge yeah, it's all out wild right might be out for years what might be out for a couple years?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: you have to replace the whole thing.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't, so I've been it's gonna be insane.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I'm super bummed because I'm like I love the fact that yurei is like 90 minutes away no, you can technically, you can still go around but it adds some time, so I'm just gonna take long weekends in camp and just go out there for a weekend instead of a day trip, and I'll still get out there.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: I gotta plot it out.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I was all upset when I read about it because we um yeah, it's really bad before our wedding we're staying in ure for a few days.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: I think we picked like long, like five days in the ure I love ure.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite, like one of my favorite places in color um, and then we're getting married in silverton, so I was like fuck, does that mean we gotta go over to?
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: yeah, actually, dude, believe or not like?
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: very gym view.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I know right actually I don't know if it's the same photographer, but I'm pretty sure it's like it's a.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: It's a small town.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: It is a small town.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I would live in Silverton in a heartbeat.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Dude, if the fiance would let me, I would have already bought a house there.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: Like, not only is it like I should say this on the podcast, but it's semi-affordable.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: He doesn't mean that, yeah.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Please don't move to Silverton he doesn't mean that Don't look, but damn, is it a cool place to live.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: Like I see, I follow like Avery Collins and I see all the shit he throws up on Instagram and I'm like man, it looks like so much fun.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: It's like the closest thing in the US to living in the Alps.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: In terms of just access to terrain, it's a lot more remote than living in the Alps and like, if, like you could get stuck there, yeah, but if you kind of like being out in the boonies, yeah, it's a great spot it would be it would be hard for us, cause like it would be me, though, like I would be the one having to drive, like on million dollar highway to get us, like if we have to go to the grocery store or shit, cause like she doesn't want to drive on there.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, dude, I've.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: That's the key right.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: You gotta gotta find someone who's also down.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: That's, that's actually if I could give you any advice.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Free marriage it's find someone that, uh, you know you're both of your goals kind of align with that, uh, you know yeah, we're in a.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: We are in that chapter right now.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: I think, oh my God, Thanks for coming on.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it, dude.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: This is great.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have to have you on again after the season, man, Thank you.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little recap of everything that went wrong.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Thanks again.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: I told you this was a banger of an episode.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Just, karen is such a good dude and just so inspiring.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: His story is absolutely incredible, just coming back from injury and just he's on this incredible journey right now.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: So we just want to wish him the absolute best in his journey, especially this summer, as he takes on races like series and all, as well as broken arrow, um, damn series and all that's so crazy.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, just want to wish him the absolute best as he takes on these races.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Um, before we get out of here, just want to go ahead and plug his Instagram.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Guys, go ahead and show him some love.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Hop on Instagram.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: Give him a follow.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: His Instagram is Kieran underscore nay, so K I E R A N underscore nay, n A Y.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead and hop on there.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: Tell him how much you guys love this episode.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Give him a follow and, yeah, give him a shout.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Send him a DM.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Slide into his DMs.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: Give him some love.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he would love to hear from you guys.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: So go ahead and also, don't forget to be watching the Broken Arrow live stream.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: You're going to be able to cheer this dude on on both Friday and Sunday.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: So Friday for the VK of Broken Arrow and Sunday at the 23k.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: So, guys, until next time, the steep stuff podcast.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this one.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Take care, thank you.