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The Social Rules Everyone Broke (And Why We’re All So Awkward Now) · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:03
Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
0:05
Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
0:11
Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
0:16
Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
0:19
Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
0:22
Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
0:28
Speaker 1: And who says?
0:30
Speaker 2: So?
0:30
Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
0:36
Speaker 1: to question everything. We need to talk about manners, because
0:42
Speaker 1: somewhere between group chat, chaos, reality TV, politics, speakerphone and
0:48
Speaker 1: an elevator and TikTok at full volume in the gym,
0:52
Speaker 1: I think that we've lost the plot. We talk a
0:54
Speaker 1: lot about how divided and awkward and disconnected things can
0:58
Speaker 1: feel right now, and I don't think there's one single reason.
1:02
Speaker 1: It's sort of a perfect storm right the political moment,
1:04
Speaker 1: the pandemic social media, and I feel like there's been
1:09
Speaker 1: this quiet collapse of the shared rules that once helped
1:11
Speaker 1: us coexist. Everyone insists on being authentic, but no one
1:16
Speaker 1: agrees anymore on what's rude, what's too much, what's too little?
1:20
Speaker 3: What are the rules?
1:22
Speaker 1: Which brings us to today's big question, is etiquette dead
1:26
Speaker 1: or did it just move online and get way more confusing.
1:32
Speaker 1: Today we're joined by two of the smartest voices in
1:35
Speaker 1: modern etiquette, Elaine Swan, who The New York Times calls
1:39
Speaker 1: the Emily Post of the digital age, and Sarah Jane Hoe,
1:43
Speaker 1: Netflix host and creator of the Mind Your Manners podcast.
1:47
Speaker 1: And Elaine and Sarah Jane Hoe say that etiquette has
1:49
Speaker 1: never been about being fake or fancy, and keeping up
1:53
Speaker 1: is more important now than ever.
1:55
Speaker 4: I think etiquette definitely means making sure that in everything,
2:00
Speaker 4: when you say everything you do, that you respect yourself
2:03
Speaker 4: and respect others. And when you think about etiquette, it's
2:05
Speaker 4: so much about putting others at ease, But it's it's
2:07
Speaker 4: all over.
2:08
Speaker 2: It depends on where we are right.
2:09
Speaker 5: We're not saying that you should change your personality. We're
2:12
Speaker 5: saying you should just make microadjustments so that you put
2:17
Speaker 5: the group of people you're with at ease, which actually
2:20
Speaker 5: then makes you puts you at ease because then you
2:23
Speaker 5: feel like you belong and human belonging is the core
2:26
Speaker 5: of being human.
2:27
Speaker 3: Oh.
2:28
Speaker 1: I love that etiquette isn't about being prim or proper.
2:32
Speaker 1: I feel like it's about confidence it's about knowing what
2:35
Speaker 1: to do so you're not stuck in your head wondering
2:37
Speaker 1: did I do that wrong? So together, we're unpacking the
2:40
Speaker 1: hidden rules that still run our social lives and the
2:43
Speaker 1: simple cheat codes that might finally help you feel more confident,
2:47
Speaker 1: more at ease, and more at home in any room.
2:50
Speaker 1: So the question we're asking today is etiquette outdated? Or
2:55
Speaker 1: is it the exact thing we're missing right now? And
2:57
Speaker 1: I have a feeling you're going to want more of
2:59
Speaker 1: a Lane and Sarah Jane So know that they both
3:02
Speaker 1: have books. Elaine Swan's book is called Let Crazy Be Crazy,
3:06
Speaker 1: a Guide to Understanding Social Etiquette. She also has a
3:09
Speaker 1: course or a program that you can sign up for
3:11
Speaker 1: called the Swan School of Protocol. I'm actually thinking about
3:14
Speaker 1: doing it. I'm so into this stuff. And Sarah Jane
3:17
Speaker 1: Hoe has an amazing book as well, titled Mind Your Manners,
3:20
Speaker 1: How to Be Your Best Self in Any Situation and
3:23
Speaker 1: Beyond Etiquette. Sarah Jane is also the co founder and
3:26
Speaker 1: CEO of Antivorta, which is a modern intimate care brand
3:30
Speaker 1: rooted in traditional Chinese medicine and designed to help women
3:33
Speaker 1: feel comfortable and confident and at home in their own bodies.
3:36
Speaker 1: I really think it feels like a natural extension of
3:38
Speaker 1: her work because how we care for ourselves privately definitely
3:42
Speaker 1: shapes how we move through the world publicly. And I
3:45
Speaker 1: have links to everything in the show notes of the podcast. Okay,
3:49
Speaker 1: it's time to Question Everything with Sarah Jane Hoe and
3:52
Speaker 1: Elaine Swan.
3:56
Speaker 3: Sarah and Elaine, welcome to Question Everything.
4:00
Speaker 4: Hi.
4:01
Speaker 1: So you are both etiquette experts, and I want to
4:03
Speaker 1: start with the sentiment that I think we all hear
4:05
Speaker 1: a lot these days people say etiquette is dead.
4:09
Speaker 3: We're distracted, we're online, more, more.
4:11
Speaker 1: Impatient, and we are definitely less polished than ever before.
4:15
Speaker 3: Would you agree with that?
4:16
Speaker 4: I do think it is challenging right now. I think
4:18
Speaker 4: our world is challenged right now and people can most
4:21
Speaker 4: certainly do that.
4:21
Speaker 1: Are we seriously lacking etiquette or has it just changed
4:25
Speaker 1: into something unrecognizable?
4:28
Speaker 5: Well, etiquette changes every fifteen years, anyway. I do think
4:32
Speaker 5: now it's changing every five years because of social media,
4:35
Speaker 5: and it's just a greater and great to speak.
4:38
Speaker 1: I think both of your work shows that etiquette is
4:41
Speaker 1: really about how to make us all comfortable and about respect.
4:45
Speaker 1: What does it mean to each of you, Elaine, I think.
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Speaker 4: Etiquette definitely means making sure that in everything you'd say,
4:53
Speaker 4: everything you do, that you respect yourself, of course, and
4:56
Speaker 4: respect others. And when you think about etiquette, it's so
4:58
Speaker 4: much about putting others that eat. But it depends on
5:00
Speaker 4: where we are right. It could be in line, in
5:03
Speaker 4: the grocery store line or online. You know, we don't
5:05
Speaker 4: want to see all your icky stuff or what have you.
5:08
Speaker 4: And so it's really just thinking about how what you
5:10
Speaker 4: do and what you say impacts other people.
5:12
Speaker 5: How about you, Saratane? Yeah, for me because I grew
5:15
Speaker 5: up amongst different cultures. I grew up in Hong Kong
5:18
Speaker 5: and I spend a long time in China and in
5:19
Speaker 5: the States. Etiquette is really contextual, so it really depends
5:23
Speaker 5: on who you're with, what country you're in, what the
5:27
Speaker 5: setting is. You could do the same thing but in
5:30
Speaker 5: two different cultures, and in one place it would be
5:33
Speaker 5: well mattered and the other place would be extremely.
5:34
Speaker 3: Rude, so you're not in your head.
5:35
Speaker 1: I think that's interesting because modern culture would say that
5:39
Speaker 1: we should just be our authentic selves everywhere we go,
5:42
Speaker 1: that code switching.
5:43
Speaker 3: Is bad, and you're saying that sometimes code switching is okay.
5:47
Speaker 2: It's a nuss.
5:47
Speaker 4: You know when you think about you know, when you're
5:49
Speaker 4: in Rome, do as the Romans do, and that's exactly
5:51
Speaker 4: what we do.
5:52
Speaker 2: And that's one way of respecting another culture.
5:54
Speaker 5: I think the young generation now there's so much emphasis
5:57
Speaker 5: on I have to be mal authentic self, I have
5:59
Speaker 5: to be male authentic self. We're not saying that you
6:01
Speaker 5: should change your personality. We're saying you should just make
6:04
Speaker 5: microadjustments so that you put the group of people you're
6:09
Speaker 5: with at ease, which actually then puts you at ease
6:12
Speaker 5: because then you feel like you belong and human belonging
6:15
Speaker 5: is the core of being human.
6:16
Speaker 2: And that's the thing about.
6:17
Speaker 4: When you're in any situation and you feel confident, then
6:20
Speaker 4: you can be more present with the individuals and not
6:23
Speaker 4: be focused on okay, did I do that right?
6:24
Speaker 2: Did I do this right?
6:25
Speaker 4: So when you're doing this inside your head in that moment,
6:28
Speaker 4: then you are less present and that as connected with
6:30
Speaker 4: individuals and so you know what to do in any situation,
6:34
Speaker 4: you can feel more confident and present your best self.
6:37
Speaker 3: How did you both come to this work?
6:38
Speaker 2: For me? I started out by being a student of etiquette.
6:42
Speaker 4: I am a first generation for an US citizen, and
6:45
Speaker 4: so it was important to my family for me to assimilate.
6:49
Speaker 4: If you will, you know, to know what to do
6:51
Speaker 4: in a variety of situation. So I started out as
6:53
Speaker 4: a student growing up in my life, I went through
6:55
Speaker 4: the whole pageant system as the fly attendant for ten
6:58
Speaker 4: years for Continental Airlines, and I took a training, the
7:01
Speaker 4: International Etiquette of Protocol training, which really just enlightened me
7:05
Speaker 4: and all the pagents of course, had an etiquette come
7:07
Speaker 4: upon it to it. Then I started volunteering to teach girls,
7:10
Speaker 4: and that volunteer opportunity turned into someone wanting to pay me,
7:14
Speaker 4: and I thought, well, this.
7:15
Speaker 2: Is an excellent I did. It's an eight.
7:17
Speaker 4: It's definitely something that's absolutely necessary and part of who
7:20
Speaker 4: I am as an individual. And so in two thousand
7:23
Speaker 4: and three I watched my etiquette consulting business and had
7:26
Speaker 4: been going ever since.
7:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, I grew up in Hong Kong and
7:31
Speaker 2: my mother really was my muse. She was an incredible hostes.
7:34
Speaker 5: She loved hosting during bodies in the whole Christmas would
7:36
Speaker 5: be lots of people at our house, and I watched
7:39
Speaker 5: to create these really warm and magical moments through host
7:43
Speaker 5: deessiny and entertaining, and that was a lot of my childhood. Sadly,
7:47
Speaker 5: when I was twenty one, I lost her to live
7:49
Speaker 5: acts and my life really changed because my father didn't
7:52
Speaker 5: entertain in the same way when he was alone. My
7:54
Speaker 5: life became very lonely. Holidays became very lowly. I didn't
7:57
Speaker 5: even like to go back to Hang Kong because it
7:59
Speaker 5: reminded me of how.
7:59
Speaker 2: Long I was.
8:01
Speaker 5: And then in my mid twenties, when I was at
8:02
Speaker 5: Harvard Business School during my two year MBA, I was
8:05
Speaker 5: thinking of just business ideas and what I could do
8:08
Speaker 5: in mainland China, and I thought, wow, you know, China
8:11
Speaker 5: has been through so much change in such a short
8:12
Speaker 5: amount of time and a lot of wealth who was
8:15
Speaker 5: created very quickly. But people want the confidence and grace
8:18
Speaker 5: to move through the world. And so I thought, what
8:20
Speaker 5: if I bring the concept of a Swiss finishing school.
8:22
Speaker 2: To mainland China, not for children but for ladies.
8:25
Speaker 5: And because my mother was such an influence on me,
8:27
Speaker 5: I feel the critical person of family is the mother.
8:29
Speaker 2: She raises the children.
8:31
Speaker 5: So that's why we focused on mother's yummy mummies, I
8:34
Speaker 5: like to say, And so I did that I started
8:35
Speaker 5: that in twenty thirteen in Beijing, and then a few
8:38
Speaker 5: years later Netflix heard about it turned it into a
8:40
Speaker 5: show called Mind Your Matters that came out in twenty
8:42
Speaker 5: twenty two, and then the rest is history.
8:44
Speaker 1: And why is Swiss finishing school? Are they the like
8:47
Speaker 1: epitome of etiquette?
8:49
Speaker 5: Well, of course in America you have Charms School right
8:52
Speaker 5: in the South, and pageants too, But I always just
8:55
Speaker 5: felt that Switzerland really has been the bastion of finishing ladies,
9:01
Speaker 5: even until pretty recently. A couple decades ago, women couldn't
9:03
Speaker 5: go to university, so they would, especially women from good
9:06
Speaker 5: families that be homeschooled, and then they would be sent
9:08
Speaker 5: to a finishing school in Switzerland to finish their education
9:12
Speaker 5: where they would love how to be a hostess, the hostessing,
9:15
Speaker 5: how to entertain, how to iron a shirt, how to
9:18
Speaker 5: make all these things, how to greet anyone from a
9:21
Speaker 5: prince to a normal guest. And I just wanted to
9:24
Speaker 5: go to the source and bring that to China.
9:26
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's interesting that you share this
9:28
Speaker 4: about the finishing school, because when you hear in the US,
9:31
Speaker 4: the minute you mentioned etiquette, people go, oh, my gosh,
9:33
Speaker 4: such a lost art and the idea this is what
9:36
Speaker 4: they have in their mind is the finishing school. But
9:38
Speaker 4: the key and when you really start talking to people
9:40
Speaker 4: who are here in this country and in different pockets,
9:43
Speaker 4: most especially as you mentioned the South, you're fund that
9:46
Speaker 4: it's not necessarily finishing school. Sometimes it's charm school, sometimes
9:49
Speaker 4: it's Cotillion. It has not gone away, And the idea
9:52
Speaker 4: of folks presenting themselves in a manner that is acceptable
9:56
Speaker 4: to the individual, theayer in the presence of me.
9:58
Speaker 2: Has never gone away. It's not a lost start. It's
10:01
Speaker 2: still here.
10:01
Speaker 4: It's just how we practice it and how the information
10:04
Speaker 4: has passed along. I think that's why I think it's
10:06
Speaker 4: important the work that we're doing now is because we're
10:09
Speaker 4: passing it on in a modern perspective and letting people
10:11
Speaker 4: know that it's not just about kings and queens and
10:14
Speaker 4: curtsy and things like that here in the US.
10:16
Speaker 3: Completely agree.
10:17
Speaker 1: I think that somehow etiquette has become related to inauthenticity
10:21
Speaker 1: or putting on a show, when really it's about like
10:24
Speaker 1: creating comfort and ease in relationships and connections. So I
10:28
Speaker 1: think etiquette will never go out of style.
10:31
Speaker 4: No, I mean, any pop culture thing you see that
10:33
Speaker 4: happens the minute someone gets out of line, whether it's housewives,
10:37
Speaker 4: fossy wine at each other's faces or what have you.
10:40
Speaker 4: The first me to do is it it's not proper etiquette.
10:42
Speaker 4: Everyone says that. I mean, whether it's comedians, sports figures.
10:45
Speaker 4: So for the minute someone wants an individual to get
10:48
Speaker 4: in line and pay attention and conduct themselves in a
10:51
Speaker 4: proper manner, the first.
10:52
Speaker 2: Thing they say is etiquette. So it's not going to
10:53
Speaker 2: go anywhere.
10:54
Speaker 1: It's just here to say, how do you think the
10:56
Speaker 1: pandemic has affected our social skills?
10:58
Speaker 4: The pandemic is really packed in our social skills, especially
11:02
Speaker 4: our younger generation, the folks who.
11:04
Speaker 2: Were kind of coming up through that.
11:05
Speaker 4: So it really has impacted people in a negative way.
11:08
Speaker 4: But there's so much good that has come from it
11:10
Speaker 4: in terms of communication and connecting with one another. But
11:14
Speaker 4: the social skills can use some sharpening. Getting out and
11:18
Speaker 4: getting in front of people again and talking and communicating
11:22
Speaker 4: in a more again authentic manner was a little bit.
11:25
Speaker 2: Lost, and so we just need to ginger that a
11:27
Speaker 2: little bit. Now.
11:28
Speaker 3: Is it like if you don't use it, you lose
11:30
Speaker 3: it takes the thing I.
11:31
Speaker 4: Think people kind of got lazy. You know, it's easy
11:33
Speaker 4: to say, okay, let me wear the lounge wear, and
11:37
Speaker 4: I'm okay behind the screen, but then once you come outside,
11:40
Speaker 4: the loungewear is cute.
11:41
Speaker 3: Oh I feel personally attactilate.
11:44
Speaker 2: No, no, I love lounge we love lines. And now
11:47
Speaker 2: the athleasu're wear and so forth. Wear that when you fly,
11:50
Speaker 2: just not your pajamts. Right, So that's that's sort of faith.
11:52
Speaker 5: I always say, what we really lost is the human connection.
11:55
Speaker 5: And I see that even in my nineteen year old son.
11:57
Speaker 5: I think the kids that were at school, they were
11:59
Speaker 5: really mostly and touched.
12:01
Speaker 2: And now when you.
12:02
Speaker 5: See teenagers sometimes they can't even look an adult in
12:06
Speaker 5: the eye and have a matual conversation and they're hiding
12:09
Speaker 5: behind their screens, and that to me is really problematic.
12:13
Speaker 3: Why do you think people behave worse online?
12:16
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this a lot, because there is
12:18
Speaker 1: an element of anonymity, but some people do it and they.
12:22
Speaker 3: Have their photo, their name, their company profile.
12:26
Speaker 5: I think it's a lack of accountability. It's almost again
12:28
Speaker 5: because they feel disconnected from people. Because you're behind the screen.
12:32
Speaker 5: Then you feel I can say and I think I
12:35
Speaker 5: can let out my worst side, and it's very.
12:37
Speaker 2: Scary, and it's that accountability.
12:39
Speaker 4: It's kind of like when maybe there's two people right,
12:42
Speaker 4: here's someone that's kind of breaking up a fight in
12:44
Speaker 4: the person crop because there's someone that's kind of holding
12:46
Speaker 4: them back. But then let that person step to the
12:49
Speaker 4: side and they'll somehow calm down. And so that's what
12:51
Speaker 4: they're doing behind this thing, and they can do this,
12:54
Speaker 4: you know, without any real repercussions in that moment, and
12:57
Speaker 4: I think it gives people a false sense of security,
13:00
Speaker 4: liquid courage.
13:01
Speaker 5: You know.
13:02
Speaker 4: Used to just be outdranking and people would get out
13:03
Speaker 4: of hand, but now they're at home and no one's
13:06
Speaker 4: going to check them in that moment.
13:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right. I mean I see it
13:10
Speaker 3: even with politician.
13:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, what happ does statesmanship? We don't have statesmanship anything,
13:15
Speaker 5: not anymore. Statesmen are not acting like statesmen.
13:17
Speaker 1: They're not that's a good point. What do you think
13:19
Speaker 1: the cultural repercussions are of that? Because I think a
13:22
Speaker 1: lot of people feel like, I don't like how this
13:26
Speaker 1: politician acts, but it's about their policies. What does statesmanhood
13:31
Speaker 1: actually mean?
13:32
Speaker 4: So I think what we're seeing is when we talk
13:35
Speaker 4: about our politicians, for example, they think that it's all
13:38
Speaker 4: right to kind of follow the leader of follow this
13:41
Speaker 4: movement that's going along. But in the end, you want
13:44
Speaker 4: to think about how is history going to treat you
13:47
Speaker 4: when you are speaking.
13:49
Speaker 2: Everything you say, your words are.
13:52
Speaker 4: Creating issues, and so whether you have policies that are
13:55
Speaker 4: really helping folks, it's your words that will be humored
13:59
Speaker 4: by It's every thing we say online, it's everything that
14:01
Speaker 4: we say on camera that is the thing that's going
14:03
Speaker 4: to stick most. And I think this is where people
14:05
Speaker 4: are kind of forgetting about that. They're so in the
14:07
Speaker 4: moment right now, they want to get their point across,
14:09
Speaker 4: but they're not recognizing the history they are making.
14:12
Speaker 5: And a statesman or a politicians representing the country, right,
14:16
Speaker 5: So first of all, he's the leader, he's the head
14:18
Speaker 5: of the country, and he's representing the country.
14:20
Speaker 2: So if he or she acts a certain way that
14:23
Speaker 2: people will follow. It's like a parent and child.
14:25
Speaker 5: And so it's very interesting to see, especially since I
14:28
Speaker 5: spend my time between two of the most different countries
14:30
Speaker 5: in the world, China and the US. Oh my gosh,
14:33
Speaker 5: you had my husband all his businesses in China, so
14:35
Speaker 5: I spend half my time there, and I see the
14:36
Speaker 5: way our statesmen are head of countries has stays act
14:40
Speaker 5: and it's very entertaining that it gives food for thought.
14:42
Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about modern etiquette. What do
14:44
Speaker 1: you think the role of etiquette is in today's society.
14:48
Speaker 5: I think historically etiquette has changed every generation, so every
14:51
Speaker 5: fifteen years you need a refresh and update. I think
14:54
Speaker 5: with the advent of social media, and by the way,
14:57
Speaker 5: I went to high school with Mark Zuckerberg, he was
14:58
Speaker 5: a year ahead of me a boarding I went to
15:00
Speaker 5: Phillip s Exter Academy and the name Facebook it was
15:03
Speaker 5: a colloquial term for our school photo address book, but
15:06
Speaker 5: everyone called it the Facebook. And so it was fascinating
15:10
Speaker 5: to know him in high school, to the who he was,
15:13
Speaker 5: and then to see him go to Harvard and then
15:15
Speaker 5: create the Facebook, which then first went to the ivy leagues,
15:19
Speaker 5: and then I went to George shown So then followed
15:21
Speaker 5: by Georgehown, and then follow by all the other schools.
15:23
Speaker 5: It was fascinating can change the world in that way,
15:25
Speaker 5: and with social media, I would say now that etiquette
15:28
Speaker 5: changes every five years, and the curb is becoming steeper
15:31
Speaker 5: and steeper, and it's hard for me to catch up with,
15:34
Speaker 5: you know, mynage stepson and the things he's doing and
15:37
Speaker 5: the sline they're using. So etiquette really is changing more
15:39
Speaker 5: and more quickly now in modern society.
15:42
Speaker 2: So when you say what is the role of it?
15:44
Speaker 5: Every couple of years, it's like, okay, we have to revisit,
15:46
Speaker 5: what are the roles?
15:47
Speaker 2: What are the new rules of etiquette?
15:49
Speaker 4: But the thing that what we're hearing in this moment
15:51
Speaker 4: and what you're sharing, is that it's not going anywhere,
15:54
Speaker 4: So it will always be part of society. It will
15:57
Speaker 4: just shift and change society modernizing. I mean, I can
16:00
Speaker 4: remember when I first started in this industry, we were
16:03
Speaker 4: telling people do not take your cell phone into a
16:06
Speaker 4: job interview.
16:07
Speaker 2: And read it in the car.
16:08
Speaker 4: But now you know you'd have to prive that thing
16:10
Speaker 4: out of somebody's hands to do that, or not into
16:13
Speaker 4: a restaurant or what have you. So it's shifted people
16:15
Speaker 4: taking pictures of their meal and their food and things
16:18
Speaker 4: like that that didn't exist, and so at people will
16:21
Speaker 4: always be part of our society. It's just that the
16:24
Speaker 4: new offices surrounding they will sit as a society changes,
16:28
Speaker 4: but the poor value will always stay there, and that
16:30
Speaker 4: poor value of respect for yourself and for others is
16:33
Speaker 4: not going to go.
16:35
Speaker 3: Do you see it as a form of power.
16:37
Speaker 2: I think it can be used as power.
16:38
Speaker 5: In fact, in my book, I say very upfront, I
16:41
Speaker 5: have no interest in being holier than thou and telling
16:43
Speaker 5: you how to be a moral person.
16:45
Speaker 2: What I am giving you.
16:46
Speaker 5: Is a toolkit to do everything that you want to
16:49
Speaker 5: be able to do. Achieve everything you want to be
16:51
Speaker 5: able to achieve, Meet everybody you want to be able
16:53
Speaker 5: to meet, form a relationship, deepen a relationship in a
16:55
Speaker 5: short amount of time. Whatever you want to do, and
16:58
Speaker 5: power can be part of that if you want, but
17:00
Speaker 5: to do it with grace and with alignment.
17:02
Speaker 4: That's powerful, you know, when you take back your own
17:05
Speaker 4: power and say okay, I now have the tools.
17:08
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I guess my thought was some people
17:12
Speaker 1: benefit from knowing the rules of everybody.
17:15
Speaker 2: If you know the rules, every benefits you benefit. I mean,
17:18
Speaker 2: you have one authorship, right, and that is you're already
17:20
Speaker 2: elevating your sets in.
17:22
Speaker 3: That moment, right.
17:23
Speaker 1: But I like the idea that it's really about your
17:24
Speaker 1: own power. It's not yielding power over over others. No,
17:28
Speaker 1: it's yours. Yes, that's a cool way of looking at it.
17:45
Speaker 1: Who do you think pays the biggest social price for
17:48
Speaker 1: bad manners?
17:48
Speaker 3: Men or women?
17:50
Speaker 5: You're in the US, I think men get away with
17:52
Speaker 5: a lot everywhere, not just the US as well.
17:55
Speaker 2: They get away with ten times over.
17:58
Speaker 4: Women could say and do the same thing and and
18:01
Speaker 4: we would just be fied over it.
18:03
Speaker 2: But that's in everything.
18:05
Speaker 3: I read a book from a historian.
18:07
Speaker 1: It was really talking about poverty, and he was saying
18:11
Speaker 1: that he felt like most bigotry, racism, homophobia was actually
18:17
Speaker 1: rooted in classed divisiveness.
18:18
Speaker 3: I don't believe that's totally true, but I do think.
18:22
Speaker 1: There's an element of it that we don't talk about
18:25
Speaker 1: when it comes to etiquette.
18:26
Speaker 2: From a class perspective. I mean meaning that there's a
18:29
Speaker 2: class that we think it's so sensitive. Yeah, it is.
18:31
Speaker 2: It's sensitive.
18:32
Speaker 4: And I think people have always thought, and they still do,
18:34
Speaker 4: they think etiquette is something that is for the elite.
18:37
Speaker 4: And that's something that I write about in my Yes,
18:39
Speaker 4: this is for every person. It's just information, it's just
18:42
Speaker 4: tools to help you navigate life. And so with that
18:45
Speaker 4: you will have the ability to read in and out
18:49
Speaker 4: through different classes of folks and still present yourself well
18:52
Speaker 4: and be accepted as well.
18:54
Speaker 3: Sarah, you wrote something in your book I want to
18:55
Speaker 3: quote back to you.
18:56
Speaker 2: Guys.
18:57
Speaker 1: You write, we humans are remarkably bad at determining what
19:00
Speaker 1: actually makes us happy? What do we get so wrong
19:03
Speaker 1: about our desires? And I was confused, how does etiquette reveal.
19:07
Speaker 2: My own personal journey? And I turned forty this year.
19:09
Speaker 2: I feel like it's actually my best decade.
19:11
Speaker 5: I mentioned my best decade yet, because I spent the
19:15
Speaker 5: first half of my life not really knowing what made
19:18
Speaker 5: me happy, and not being in my most aligned self,
19:22
Speaker 5: I would say, and not thinking about the way I think.
19:24
Speaker 5: There was a lot of conscious thought going on in
19:26
Speaker 5: my younger years as there is now in my you know,
19:30
Speaker 5: middle aged years.
19:31
Speaker 3: Carl Jung says that all the time.
19:33
Speaker 5: Yes, And in fact, when I turned forty last Thursday,
19:36
Speaker 5: I posted a call young quote.
19:38
Speaker 2: When who says life.
19:39
Speaker 5: Really just begins at forty? Everything before that is just beseuch.
19:43
Speaker 5: So going back to.
19:44
Speaker 3: Your question, which was about desires.
19:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, you need to think about the way you think, right,
19:48
Speaker 5: that's metic cognition, and so many of us are not
19:52
Speaker 5: coming out of ourselves to reflect on ourselves that way,
19:55
Speaker 5: and as a result, we won't truly know ourselves.
19:57
Speaker 2: Well.
19:57
Speaker 1: It's interesting the way you write about etiquette is almost
20:00
Speaker 1: like it's cognitive behavioral therapy.
20:02
Speaker 2: Yes, it is, and I say that in the book.
20:04
Speaker 3: Can you expand on that?
20:06
Speaker 5: One of my favorite courses in college was anthropology, which
20:09
Speaker 5: is a study of human behavior, and I believe that
20:12
Speaker 5: we as humans we move through microcultures, multiple microcultures every
20:17
Speaker 5: single day, whether it's our family, work, different groups of friends,
20:20
Speaker 5: or different microcultures, even different departments in a company like
20:24
Speaker 5: accounting is really different from advertizing, right, that microculture is
20:28
Speaker 5: really different, and we are adjusting ourselves ever so slightly
20:33
Speaker 5: in each different microculture and again not losing our personality,
20:37
Speaker 5: but just making the people in that microculture comfortable around us,
20:41
Speaker 5: which makes ourselves more comfortable. In anthropology, the goal is
20:44
Speaker 5: to go native, right, So we say you're in the field,
20:46
Speaker 5: which is when you're observing, and every time I go
20:48
Speaker 5: to a new microculture, I'm thinking what are they wearing,
20:50
Speaker 5: what slang are they using, what volume are they speaking at? Right,
20:52
Speaker 5: and adjusting myself and then ultimately you want to be
20:55
Speaker 5: able to go native where people think that you really
20:57
Speaker 5: are one of them. You feel that you're one of them.
20:59
Speaker 5: So this is actually how I approach etiquette. And again
21:02
Speaker 5: it's because I've lived in such different cultures. I'm so
21:04
Speaker 5: comfortable in the States and I'm so comfortable in China.
21:07
Speaker 1: Eleane, in your book, you write that because etiquette has evolved,
21:11
Speaker 1: we need to have a standard that represents what our
21:13
Speaker 1: world looks like today. I'm curious, if you could go granular,
21:18
Speaker 1: what do you think needs to evolve about today's etiquette.
21:21
Speaker 4: I think to your fact where you said it can
21:23
Speaker 4: change as the years go on, and I think what
21:25
Speaker 4: needs to evolve in this particular moment is for people
21:28
Speaker 4: to really grasp the way we communicate online. That's the
21:32
Speaker 4: portion of it that needs to evolve. I believe we
21:34
Speaker 4: know for a fact that we're leaving a digital footprint
21:37
Speaker 4: everywhere we go, whether it's online or through instant messaging
21:41
Speaker 4: or dams or what have you.
21:42
Speaker 2: And so the portion of it that.
21:44
Speaker 4: Needs to evolve is we need to infuse more respect
21:48
Speaker 4: and consideration for others as we're communicating, as we're leaving
21:52
Speaker 4: this trail along with this, I feel like we still
21:54
Speaker 4: have not gotten to that point yet. We're still willing
21:57
Speaker 4: nearly wolding out and people aren't as oh if they
22:01
Speaker 4: can be in the social media or digital communicating aspect.
22:05
Speaker 1: And hearing you both say that etiquette hasn't really transcended
22:10
Speaker 1: or gotten to social media yet. Do you think that
22:13
Speaker 1: it can transcend cultures or does each culture have a
22:17
Speaker 1: totally different set of rules.
22:19
Speaker 5: Let me give an example, and I recently did a
22:21
Speaker 5: post about this on my Instagram feed. In the Western world,
22:25
Speaker 5: when you toast, you raise your gloss high, and that's
22:27
Speaker 5: your celebration and confidence, and you raise the high way
22:29
Speaker 5: you toast. In China, if you raise your gloss high
22:32
Speaker 5: when you're toasting, that is the most defensive thing you
22:35
Speaker 5: can do, because you're telling the other person I'm better
22:37
Speaker 5: than you. And so in fact, when people toast in China,
22:40
Speaker 5: they lower that gloss to show humility. So, Eleine, if
22:44
Speaker 5: you and I are toasting, it's actually a raise to
22:46
Speaker 5: the bottom to see.
22:46
Speaker 2: You drop that gloss to the table.
22:50
Speaker 5: Let's say, if there's a clear boss or subordinate, or
22:52
Speaker 5: an older person in a younger person, then the older
22:55
Speaker 5: person would go down, but then just stop everything so slightly.
22:57
Speaker 2: And because I'm younger, I would bring class down.
23:00
Speaker 1: It reflects the cultural norms and expectations of that stage
23:05
Speaker 1: or country.
23:06
Speaker 5: Right, So even though they're interpreted differently, I do think
23:09
Speaker 5: they come from the same place, which is of consideration
23:12
Speaker 5: and respect.
23:13
Speaker 2: So even though there are very.
23:15
Speaker 5: Different etiquettes for different parts of the world, the intention is.
23:19
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a world in which because we
23:22
Speaker 1: have so many different cultures in America, that we don't
23:26
Speaker 1: know what to do with each other because we all
23:28
Speaker 1: come from different schools of thought.
23:29
Speaker 4: Not necessarily so, because there's that, But then you have
23:31
Speaker 4: to think community. This is the backbone of our country
23:34
Speaker 4: is community, and the communities that thrive and are growing
23:38
Speaker 4: in our rich A lot of folks don't look like
23:40
Speaker 4: each other, but that's your neighbor, this is your friend,
23:42
Speaker 4: and we see the kids in soil words. So I
23:44
Speaker 4: don't think so, I don't think it's that separate here
23:47
Speaker 4: because of the community aspect of it. This nation is
23:51
Speaker 4: a melting pot of different cultures and so forth. And
23:54
Speaker 4: I think when the cultures come together, when people human
23:57
Speaker 4: beings come together and they see, I may see how
24:01
Speaker 4: much more they have in common with each other and separate,
24:03
Speaker 4: that's where the community course comes in and then when
24:06
Speaker 4: community happens, then respect and consideration will follow.
24:10
Speaker 5: I think that is the ideal. Although because I've lived
24:12
Speaker 5: in different cities in the States. So my first job
24:15
Speaker 5: out of Georgetown, I was of annw York City doing
24:17
Speaker 5: investment banking.
24:17
Speaker 2: I was an analyst.
24:18
Speaker 5: And in New York the first thing you do when
24:20
Speaker 5: you meet somebody's everybody asked, so what do you do?
24:23
Speaker 2: What do you do?
24:24
Speaker 5: And in any other part of America that's considered very rude.
24:28
Speaker 5: And I've had other friends who say, gosh, yeah, you know,
24:30
Speaker 5: can you put with friends from the South, friends from
24:32
Speaker 5: the Midwest who were in New York and just found
24:34
Speaker 5: that excessively or met in New Yorker right and New Yorker,
24:37
Speaker 5: came to Chicago, or came to Charlotte or whatever, and
24:39
Speaker 5: just straight away, you know, at a cocktail or, friendly gathered,
24:42
Speaker 5: so what do you do? And people found that very offensive.
24:44
Speaker 5: So I think it's also very entertaining when they're next.
24:46
Speaker 4: Saying, yeah, here in La everybody, where do you live exactly?
24:50
Speaker 4: It's true, that's funny like that.
24:53
Speaker 1: There's also something and I don't mean to take this
24:55
Speaker 1: too deep, but when I think about and I wasn't alive,
24:59
Speaker 1: so I just read about the fifties and sixties. There
25:03
Speaker 1: was a want to be American. So no matter where
25:07
Speaker 1: you came from, you were Patient American or Chinese American,
25:11
Speaker 1: or African American or Jewish American.
25:14
Speaker 3: Whatever it was.
25:16
Speaker 1: And because I think people in America don't align with
25:21
Speaker 1: some of the ideals of America anymore, we've dropped that
25:25
Speaker 1: and we just want to be that.
25:27
Speaker 3: First word, whatever that is.
25:28
Speaker 1: And so to me, there's like a cohesiveness that's missing
25:32
Speaker 1: in etiquette.
25:33
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.
25:35
Speaker 3: It's just something I seek.
25:36
Speaker 5: Would you say that it's because all countries becoming more divided?
25:40
Speaker 4: It is, But that's been the plan, the leadership that
25:42
Speaker 4: we had. The plan is to divide our country. The
25:45
Speaker 4: deep state, Yeah, think about it. I mean, for me,
25:47
Speaker 4: I was a flight attendant when the September eleventh, the
25:51
Speaker 4: tragedy during septemper that could happened, and I was based
25:55
Speaker 4: in New York at the time. And for me, when
25:57
Speaker 4: I think back about during that time, everybody who was
26:02
Speaker 4: our brother, everybody was our sister, didn't matter what we
26:04
Speaker 4: look like. We were all Americans and everyone was so
26:06
Speaker 4: concerned for one another. And I think we see that
26:09
Speaker 4: in so many cultures when there's tragedy, people just become people.
26:14
Speaker 2: Like the fires in La.
26:15
Speaker 3: Yes, everyone people were really uniting.
26:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I don't think it's gone. I don't it's disappeared.
26:21
Speaker 4: It's just unfortunately, folks shift and change when there's pain.
26:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:25
Speaker 5: I remember reading a quote said, as humans, there's enlightenment
26:29
Speaker 5: when we experience steep love or when we experience deep suffering.
26:32
Speaker 3: I want to talk about etiquette and gender, Okay a
26:34
Speaker 3: little bit.
26:35
Speaker 1: Elaaney wrote something in your book that ladies are always first,
26:40
Speaker 1: and in a gender fluid world, how do you.
26:42
Speaker 3: Think we should think about etiquette between genders. Do those
26:45
Speaker 3: rules still.
26:46
Speaker 4: Serve We do still serve us, I think, especially when
26:48
Speaker 4: you're talking about close personal relationships.
26:51
Speaker 5: Right.
26:51
Speaker 4: So, yeah, if it's a personal relationship and it's two individuals,
26:54
Speaker 4: regardless of what your gender is, and the relationship you have,
26:57
Speaker 4: Let's say, for example, think of it as a right
27:00
Speaker 4: you're dancing like the tangle, there's always a leader and
27:03
Speaker 4: someone follows.
27:04
Speaker 2: Right, there's one person that's kind of leading the other,
27:06
Speaker 2: and then.
27:06
Speaker 4: So forth, and so as far as any kid is concerned,
27:10
Speaker 4: you can do the same thing. It doesn't matter your gender,
27:12
Speaker 4: just as far as your relationship is concerned. Whoever kind
27:15
Speaker 4: of does the leading would be the one to open
27:17
Speaker 4: the door, and the one who does the following would
27:19
Speaker 4: be the one to walk through the door.
27:21
Speaker 3: Well, what if I'm out with friends and there's men
27:23
Speaker 3: and women in.
27:24
Speaker 4: The business arena? Chivalry is gender free, so there's no gender.
27:28
Speaker 4: So if you're out with your buddies for launching what
27:30
Speaker 4: have you, it doesn't matter who goes through the door first.
27:33
Speaker 4: That's in the business arena and that's the standard. But
27:35
Speaker 4: if you're out with friends and it's a bunch of girlfriends,
27:38
Speaker 4: whoever gets through the door first opens the door. Make
27:40
Speaker 4: sure they hold it for the next week.
27:41
Speaker 1: And if I'm with friends and it's men and women,
27:44
Speaker 1: that the men hold the door for the I had.
27:47
Speaker 2: To do that.
27:47
Speaker 4: So good idea for men to practice chivalry to cater
27:51
Speaker 4: to the women he's with, and they don't have to
27:53
Speaker 4: be in.
27:54
Speaker 2: A personal romantic relationship to be hind You.
27:57
Speaker 5: Know what's interesting is that all this focus on the
28:00
Speaker 5: woman is the weaker sex, so the man lets her
28:03
Speaker 5: go first.
28:03
Speaker 2: In China, no husband or man would let the wife.
28:08
Speaker 5: Because of Confucianism and Confucius values, there's also a leader
28:13
Speaker 5: and follower. But we say, for example, parents are heavens
28:15
Speaker 5: and children of the earth, and the clear packing of
28:18
Speaker 5: family is a man and then the wife or you know,
28:20
Speaker 5: the sons and then the daughters. So even when I'm
28:23
Speaker 5: with my husband in China, he walks first, I walk
28:26
Speaker 5: a few steps behind him. Cuban's door, he walks through first,
28:29
Speaker 5: he leaves it open for me, and then I go
28:30
Speaker 5: behind him. And actually, if he did it the other
28:32
Speaker 5: way would be confusing.
28:33
Speaker 3: Do you guys do it differently when you're in la together?
28:36
Speaker 5: Not really, because my husband doesn't even speak English, so
28:39
Speaker 5: he's very Chinese, okay. And so in China all men
28:43
Speaker 5: will just walk ahead of their wives or girlfriends, and
28:44
Speaker 5: all the wives and girlfriends.
28:46
Speaker 2: They don't feel that it's demeaning or anyeah.
28:48
Speaker 5: They want him as the leader because that's how it's
28:51
Speaker 5: been for over two thousand years in Confucianism and how
28:54
Speaker 5: China has been. And I was thinking about this because
28:56
Speaker 5: I like to think about the way.
28:57
Speaker 2: I think.
28:58
Speaker 5: I really feel that in the West it's because of
28:59
Speaker 5: the True Church, and maybe it's a little conspiracy, but
29:02
Speaker 5: I think it's also most a way to control women.
29:04
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, I love it one amount. It was
29:06
Speaker 5: a door okay, but because women are controlled by men
29:10
Speaker 5: in the West, it's a way of almost overcompensating, you know,
29:14
Speaker 5: to say like, oh, well, women are the weaker sex,
29:16
Speaker 5: so okay, we're going to let them walk through the
29:18
Speaker 5: door bus to let them feel like.
29:20
Speaker 4: Some can see it from that perspective, but I think
29:22
Speaker 4: some of it, you know, stems from his chivalry and
29:24
Speaker 4: the act of being kind and gracious towards a woman.
29:28
Speaker 4: I definitely agree with you in terms of the control
29:32
Speaker 4: in so many environments because then we start thinking about
29:34
Speaker 4: these kind of microaggressions, right that take place. But so
29:37
Speaker 4: much of it stemmed, especially here in the West, it's
29:39
Speaker 4: stemmed from the gentleman call or the gentleman doing they
29:42
Speaker 4: You have to think about how some of the stuff
29:44
Speaker 4: got here to the US. Again, we're melting pots, so
29:46
Speaker 4: so many things are brought over from the Europe and
29:48
Speaker 4: fir standards.
29:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's part of the reason that I wanted the
29:51
Speaker 1: two of you here together, because I do think that
29:54
Speaker 1: different cultures bring such interesting expectations.
29:58
Speaker 4: Well, here's what I love is that when you said
30:00
Speaker 4: when you're here that your husband still watched the door
30:03
Speaker 4: first because he's Chinese. But the thing that's great is
30:06
Speaker 4: this is their culture within themselves. This is their culture
30:10
Speaker 4: and their family, and that is acceptable and that is
30:12
Speaker 4: what's right.
30:13
Speaker 2: And here's the thing.
30:14
Speaker 5: If my husband, if were entertaining other friends of international
30:17
Speaker 5: friends or Western friends, he lets them move through folks,
30:20
Speaker 5: so he will also adjusts. So it's so contextual at
30:23
Speaker 5: the end of the day, you know, I mean, my
30:24
Speaker 5: husband were Chinese, couple, were Chinese friendly.
30:26
Speaker 4: And that's the thing that's so wonderful about you know,
30:29
Speaker 4: understanding that within the confines of the individual home and
30:34
Speaker 4: the family and the relationship the community, that all blows
30:37
Speaker 4: down and whatever you're doing in that aspect as far
30:39
Speaker 4: as etiquette is concerned, is unique to that nucleus affair.
30:56
Speaker 1: I want to say something that the podcast guests are
30:58
Speaker 1: going to laugh at because it's embarrassing that I even
31:01
Speaker 1: know this. But Justin Bieber and Hailey Bieber posted something
31:06
Speaker 1: that I thought was so beautiful.
31:08
Speaker 3: They had a framed list of the rules of their house.
31:11
Speaker 1: Oh and I'm like paraphrasing, thank you, but it's like
31:14
Speaker 1: the ten almost like their commandments, and it's we are
31:18
Speaker 1: kind whatever it is in our family and Eline, I'm
31:21
Speaker 1: kind of hearing from you that like, while we're out
31:23
Speaker 1: in the world, we have to subscribe to the etiquette.
31:28
Speaker 3: In the world and in that culture. But in our
31:30
Speaker 3: home we can make our own doctrine.
31:33
Speaker 2: You can't.
31:34
Speaker 4: And that's what's going to help your marriage thrive, your
31:37
Speaker 4: family strive, all of the above, and so in your
31:41
Speaker 4: family unit, figure out what works best for you. One
31:45
Speaker 4: thing I want to say, more importantly than anything, as
31:48
Speaker 4: far as Etiqutte is concerned, it's not something that you
31:51
Speaker 4: turn on and off, where oh, when I go into
31:53
Speaker 4: this space, I'm going to behave this way. It should
31:56
Speaker 4: be something that's innate. You should just always be thinking,
31:59
Speaker 4: how can I may make sure that when people leave
32:01
Speaker 4: my presence, how did I make them feel whether you're
32:04
Speaker 4: at home, at work, at the grocery store, at the
32:07
Speaker 4: movie theater. If we look at things from that perspective,
32:10
Speaker 4: they were not kind of coach switching and turning off
32:12
Speaker 4: and on, because I definitely don't believe in that. So,
32:14
Speaker 4: for example, in my house and my husband and I
32:18
Speaker 4: just we did a couple's podcasts together and someone asked.
32:21
Speaker 2: Well, how does it feel living with her? Seeing like sheesus?
32:24
Speaker 4: You know, my ausband says, you know what, because he's
32:26
Speaker 4: a brock, and he goes, no, Actually, I love it.
32:29
Speaker 4: I love the way my wife serves everything and she
32:31
Speaker 4: puts everything out together. I eat the linen halkins all
32:34
Speaker 4: the time, you know, Like he enjoys this sort of
32:36
Speaker 4: thing that's in our thing. So I'm not one way
32:38
Speaker 4: outside in a different way at home. I just like
32:41
Speaker 4: these things because my first chore growing up was to
32:44
Speaker 4: set the table. Oh the great mom had me setting
32:47
Speaker 4: the table and that was the thing. And I learned
32:49
Speaker 4: everything from my mom, everything in terms of posting and
32:53
Speaker 4: treating people and so so I took all that into
32:55
Speaker 4: my marriage and he likes it.
32:57
Speaker 2: You know what.
32:58
Speaker 1: I think it's challenging in today's society to say the
33:01
Speaker 1: mom is the center of the house, because there's a
33:04
Speaker 1: lot of conversation rightly so, about parenthood being split equally
33:09
Speaker 1: at home, but in practicality, at least the way I
33:12
Speaker 1: grew up, like, the mom really sets.
33:14
Speaker 3: The tone and expectations. Maybe fathers are doing that more
33:18
Speaker 3: so nowadays.
33:19
Speaker 4: I think the woman absolutely sets the tone for the home,
33:23
Speaker 4: I believe so I think energy that we have as women,
33:26
Speaker 4: we set the tone that the household moves through us.
33:30
Speaker 4: And you have the power to make your home something
33:34
Speaker 4: that is inviting, that is pleasant to come to, that
33:38
Speaker 4: is warm and memorable and so forth, or to make
33:42
Speaker 4: it somewhere where the man is sitting outside in the
33:45
Speaker 4: driveway thinking oh gosh, okay, let me get it together
33:48
Speaker 4: and try to get it and thinking that he's going
33:49
Speaker 4: to go, you know, into this environment that's not pleasant.
33:52
Speaker 4: I think the woman does and we don't even have
33:54
Speaker 4: to say anything. And the tone in the household and ship.
33:57
Speaker 5: I believe that there's a Chinese thing from Confucia say,
34:00
Speaker 5: it's a rule. It says the husband is external and
34:02
Speaker 5: the wife is internal, and it's just a very clear directive.
34:05
Speaker 5: My dad even told me, he said, don't bother your
34:07
Speaker 5: husband about that because business affairs are external and you
34:10
Speaker 5: just focus on you know, you're internal.
34:12
Speaker 3: But you have a lot of external business affairs.
34:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's different when it's related to the home
34:16
Speaker 2: and family, right. I think what you're thinking about is
34:19
Speaker 2: does he help do things and do stuff? That's one thing,
34:22
Speaker 2: But in terms of the.
34:23
Speaker 4: Tone, the spirit of the home when there's a man
34:27
Speaker 4: of leaders in the home. Yeah, he leads the home,
34:30
Speaker 4: but she's the one that's going to make that home
34:33
Speaker 4: shift or not.
34:35
Speaker 2: If the woman is not in.
34:36
Speaker 4: A good mood, she doesn't even have to say anything,
34:39
Speaker 4: but the tone that she has, the energy that she has,
34:41
Speaker 4: going to set the tone. And it's nothing to do
34:43
Speaker 4: with whether or not he's helping the wash dishes.
34:45
Speaker 3: And we're in, and what do you think about people
34:48
Speaker 3: pleasing and etiquette? What's the line?
34:50
Speaker 2: I think yourself that's it.
34:53
Speaker 1: Sometimes what I really want to say and what I
34:56
Speaker 1: think someone deserves is not the proper thing.
35:00
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, and I think this is where
35:02
Speaker 4: it's important for people to recognize that you can say
35:05
Speaker 4: anything to anybody. It's just said what you say, when
35:10
Speaker 4: you say it, where you say it. So if someone
35:12
Speaker 4: that is not being so nice and you need to
35:14
Speaker 4: call them to the carpet, you can do that. There's
35:17
Speaker 4: no etiquette thing that says that you cannot set boundaries
35:19
Speaker 4: for yourself, that you cannot call people out, that you
35:22
Speaker 4: cannot you tell people when they've gone too far, or
35:25
Speaker 4: tell them no, I'd rather not talk about that, or
35:27
Speaker 4: that's not something i'd like to talk about.
35:29
Speaker 2: That's something that's personal between me and my husband and
35:32
Speaker 2: I'd rather not share it with you. So you can
35:34
Speaker 2: do that anybody.
35:35
Speaker 4: You don't have to set it off and crust people out,
35:37
Speaker 4: but you can do it. People think that polite equals pushover,
35:41
Speaker 4: and so that you have to be polite and you
35:43
Speaker 4: have to be demir and etiquette means you can't say
35:45
Speaker 4: anything or you can't hurt anyone's feelings back No, if
35:48
Speaker 4: someone steps on a line, correct them, you can.
35:51
Speaker 2: Do it a nice way.
35:52
Speaker 3: I think there's like a modern etiquette thing here.
35:55
Speaker 1: Your toor is changing because there is the idea of
35:58
Speaker 1: polite and push show over is a false equivalent.
36:02
Speaker 5: One thing that happened to me recently and it's something
36:04
Speaker 5: that I realized again it's me being forty plus. That
36:07
Speaker 5: I realized is I asked a friend to show up
36:10
Speaker 5: for me, and this friend was unable to just for
36:12
Speaker 5: this incident. And I understood why this friend wasn't able
36:15
Speaker 5: to and the old me because being raised in a
36:19
Speaker 5: very strict Chinese household, you're almost conditioned to people please.
36:23
Speaker 5: And the old me what I like, Oh, that's okay,
36:25
Speaker 5: don't worry about it. But then the forty year old
36:28
Speaker 5: me was like, you know what, I understand why this
36:31
Speaker 5: friend construpt for me in that way, and that's I understand,
36:33
Speaker 5: that's okay, but I feel sad, and I'm going to
36:36
Speaker 5: tell this friend that I feel sad and that's okay.
36:39
Speaker 2: And so I wrote back and I said, that makes.
36:40
Speaker 5: Me sad, and so honoring my own feelings was really
36:43
Speaker 5: important to me, which is something I didn't do before,
36:46
Speaker 5: because before my younger self, I was so eager to
36:48
Speaker 5: please and make everybody think, oh, it's okay, but kay, that.
36:52
Speaker 2: Can be okay, but I can also express that I'm
36:54
Speaker 2: not okay. That's right.
36:55
Speaker 4: In my book, I talk about receiving an apology when
36:58
Speaker 4: someone apologized to you. Let them, don't interrupt, do not
37:03
Speaker 4: tell them it's okay, because it's likely not. They're apologizing
37:06
Speaker 4: for something, So allow the person to speak and simply
37:09
Speaker 4: say thank you, I appreciate your apology. Don't tell people
37:13
Speaker 4: it's okay when they do bad stuff.
37:14
Speaker 1: To you, okay smiling at strangers, Sarah Jane, I read
37:18
Speaker 1: that you say that the one etiquette rule that you
37:21
Speaker 1: wish everyone knew was to smile reflexively all of the
37:24
Speaker 1: pieces of advice that you could offer.
37:26
Speaker 3: Why is that so important to you?
37:28
Speaker 5: I also say do that especially within your community. Your
37:30
Speaker 5: new community can be your school, or your office, or
37:32
Speaker 5: the coffee shop you go to on a regular basis,
37:35
Speaker 5: or your neighbors. I say the one place you should
37:36
Speaker 5: not do it is on the subway.
37:37
Speaker 1: Can It's say, I'm a really smiling person and it's
37:40
Speaker 1: gotten me in trouble. Men take it the wrong way
37:43
Speaker 1: sometimes they do.
37:43
Speaker 2: But hey, if somebody thinks you like them, that can
37:46
Speaker 2: only make them like you.
37:47
Speaker 3: Right, Sometimes I don't want them.
37:48
Speaker 1: I like you.
37:52
Speaker 5: Yeah.
37:52
Speaker 2: I think smiling is.
37:53
Speaker 5: Just such an easy way to feed positive energy. And
37:57
Speaker 5: when you smile, some people will smile that it will
37:59
Speaker 5: bring joy to others. That'll bring joy better to you.
38:02
Speaker 5: So it's just the easiest free thing you can do
38:04
Speaker 5: make your life better.
38:05
Speaker 2: Oh I love that.
38:06
Speaker 3: Yes, Is there one that lives in your heart in
38:08
Speaker 3: that way?
38:09
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I would say, yeah, definitely smiling.
38:12
Speaker 4: Here's the thing I would say, and I think this
38:14
Speaker 4: goes hand in hand, is to then go beyond that
38:17
Speaker 4: smile and say hello, a simple hello. When you're traveling
38:21
Speaker 4: and you get in the elevator and you're going up
38:24
Speaker 4: the elevator, down the elevator and hello, a good morning,
38:27
Speaker 4: greets somebody. And here's why, because of the divisiveness that
38:31
Speaker 4: we're experiencing in our country right now. Some individuals may
38:35
Speaker 4: be from one part of the country and you may
38:37
Speaker 4: live in another, and they may not ever really come
38:40
Speaker 4: in contact with someone like you. But that one moment
38:43
Speaker 4: in the elevator, when you look at them and say
38:45
Speaker 4: hello or good morning and what have you can shift
38:47
Speaker 4: their thought process in terms of what they've been told
38:50
Speaker 4: about who you are as an individual.
38:52
Speaker 2: Or a race, or a group or a community and
38:54
Speaker 2: so forth.
38:54
Speaker 1: And so I would say hello, I love that one
38:57
Speaker 1: so much. As a Midwesterner, we are expected to do that.
39:01
Speaker 5: And a thought that comes in, actually, so, well, my
39:03
Speaker 5: Midwestern friends are all solid, they're solid people.
39:06
Speaker 3: And well, man, I agree, we're solid. Thank you for
39:09
Speaker 3: saying that.
39:10
Speaker 1: I think that a comment I've gotten often is that
39:14
Speaker 1: people will tell me that I'm more when I take
39:16
Speaker 1: Sarah Jane's thought process of thinking about how I'm thinking.
39:19
Speaker 1: The reason I think that is is because I acknowledge
39:22
Speaker 1: someone as a human being. It's so simple. It's just saying, like,
39:26
Speaker 1: I see, I see you. Yeah, it's just a quick hello,
39:30
Speaker 1: like when you're at a party. I think people are
39:31
Speaker 1: so nervous to say hello because they don't want to
39:33
Speaker 1: be the first one and the simple Hey, nice to
39:36
Speaker 1: see you.
39:37
Speaker 4: How are I have this thing where I talk about
39:38
Speaker 4: that ten five someone's tend feet away from you and
39:40
Speaker 4: you happen to make eye contact. You can just smile,
39:43
Speaker 4: but if they're within five feet, then that's when you
39:45
Speaker 4: should speak.
39:45
Speaker 2: Man, you make eye contact. But when people get in
39:47
Speaker 2: the elevator, they're trying not to make eye contacts. Other
39:49
Speaker 2: people pull them in. But I think it's so important
39:51
Speaker 2: to our society today.
39:53
Speaker 1: Did you see someone in an elevator or in a
39:55
Speaker 1: space and they don't look like they want to acknowledge you,
39:58
Speaker 1: would you recommend that we still acknowledge them?
40:00
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, because sometimes you never go shy. Yeah,
40:04
Speaker 2: they may be shy.
40:05
Speaker 4: Sometimes people are internalizing whatever's happening in their life. They
40:08
Speaker 4: could be experiencing something detrimental and you're hello, It could
40:12
Speaker 4: be just the thing that needed in that moment and
40:14
Speaker 4: with their spirits.
40:15
Speaker 1: I was thinking about first impressions and I read that
40:18
Speaker 1: word judgement under two minutes, and it takes eight good
40:22
Speaker 1: moments to recover from a battle.
40:24
Speaker 3: That is a big discrepancy.
40:26
Speaker 1: What's the one thing people should never get wrong in
40:29
Speaker 1: a first impression?
40:29
Speaker 5: There are lots of things you could get wrong. Yeah,
40:31
Speaker 5: from the way you dress to not smiling. Oh yeah,
40:36
Speaker 5: that's one of my pet peeves. Well, let's say I'm
40:38
Speaker 5: meeting someone for the first time and I say I'm
40:41
Speaker 5: Sarah Jane Hoe and the other post goes, I'm Sarah Jane.
40:43
Speaker 4: There's so many things that both come along, So get
40:46
Speaker 4: it right. Fire books, yeah, free stuff, and make a
40:50
Speaker 4: good impression.
41:03
Speaker 1: Is there an etiquette rule that you wish more people
41:06
Speaker 1: knew or follow here in America?
41:09
Speaker 5: I have one. I see this so often, and it's
41:11
Speaker 5: not just the States, it's really the whole world. Okay,
41:14
Speaker 5: when hosts are organized in a minute and they don't
41:17
Speaker 5: introduce guests to each other, it sounds so easy, but actually,
41:20
Speaker 5: think of the lost guest together you went to a
41:22
Speaker 5: lot of people don't do it. A lot of hosts
41:24
Speaker 5: will greet their guests, they had their guests, and then
41:26
Speaker 5: they'll greet the next guest, and then they'll leave that
41:28
Speaker 5: lost guest just kind of hanging in and for a
41:30
Speaker 5: supremely confident guest, they'll be fine.
41:32
Speaker 2: But most people are not supremely confident.
41:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:35
Speaker 5: So, anytime you organize an event, whether it's a business
41:38
Speaker 5: cocktail or a reception or a birthday, I will at
41:41
Speaker 5: least introduce a new guest to three to four other
41:44
Speaker 5: guests and introduce them not just saying their name, but
41:47
Speaker 5: saying where they're from or an interesting factoid about them
41:49
Speaker 5: where they can immediately strike up a conversation, and then
41:52
Speaker 5: I move on to take care of the next guest.
41:55
Speaker 1: Interviewed a wedding planner, like a very well known one,
41:57
Speaker 1: who said that one of her rules is similar, and
42:01
Speaker 1: she said, people will feel connected if you go out
42:04
Speaker 1: of your way to say thank you for coming. I
42:06
Speaker 1: was really wanting to introduce you to this person. Remind
42:09
Speaker 1: me if I don't do it right away, you know,
42:11
Speaker 1: just to know that they've been thought of. Yeah.
42:13
Speaker 4: Well, so, if we're talking about kind of the hosting environment,
42:15
Speaker 4: I think one thing that folks should really know is
42:18
Speaker 4: if you are invited to someone's home and the evening
42:21
Speaker 4: or afternoon or what have you over and oftentimes people.
42:25
Speaker 2: Will offer to help clean up or what have you.
42:27
Speaker 4: If the host says no, thank you, then keep your
42:30
Speaker 4: hands off their stuff and at the kitchen and out
42:33
Speaker 4: of the kitchen and stay there. I think people really
42:35
Speaker 4: need to know that, because I have so many folks
42:36
Speaker 4: who will say no, my family, we have to help
42:39
Speaker 4: and so forth.
42:40
Speaker 2: But the thing about it for.
42:41
Speaker 4: A host, it gives us so much joy to see
42:44
Speaker 4: our guest and join themselves kicking back, relaxing and not
42:49
Speaker 4: in the kitchen doing things. And then of course MENI hosts,
42:51
Speaker 4: they have a certain way that they like things. So
42:53
Speaker 4: when someone tells you no, mind your business.
42:57
Speaker 3: What's an outdated rule role.
43:00
Speaker 2: Kind of what we're talking about as far as gender
43:02
Speaker 2: is concern.
43:02
Speaker 4: One thing, you have to wait for the man to
43:06
Speaker 4: extend his hand first for the lady shake's hands. Another
43:09
Speaker 4: thing that's outdated is when a woman announces her wedding
43:13
Speaker 4: or engagement yesteryear, many years ago.
43:16
Speaker 2: You should not tell her congratulations.
43:18
Speaker 4: They would say, tell them best wish it since dead,
43:21
Speaker 4: because congratulations was almost like she caught the man.
43:23
Speaker 2: She did something. But that's something that's happened. She can
43:26
Speaker 2: rasually be met.
43:27
Speaker 5: Yeah, congratulate the man and not the I would say
43:30
Speaker 5: handwritten thank you notes. It's lovely if you can do it,
43:35
Speaker 5: but you don't have to do anymore. An email or
43:37
Speaker 5: a text is just as effective, you know, a thoughtful
43:40
Speaker 5: email or to say, oh the buthday if you gave
43:43
Speaker 5: me was so thoughtful. Then to say maybe like why
43:45
Speaker 5: you got to slip pool or how you can use it.
43:47
Speaker 5: That's perfectly fine.
43:48
Speaker 2: It's a good thing. And yes, the handwritten note is
43:51
Speaker 2: going sicing on the Yeah, it's the icing on the cake. Now.
43:54
Speaker 2: It's the thing, especially if you've mail. If you get
43:57
Speaker 2: something in the.
43:57
Speaker 4: Mail and you see a hand written one hundred percent,
44:01
Speaker 4: the email might get pushed down.
44:03
Speaker 2: The text message might be push down. I would say
44:06
Speaker 2: definitely the important.
44:08
Speaker 4: Thank you And when you have a very close relationship
44:10
Speaker 4: with a person and congratulatory notes and so forth, try
44:14
Speaker 4: not to connect with that on social media. And the
44:17
Speaker 4: reason why is because if there's a lot of them,
44:19
Speaker 4: it gets pushed down. And so your best girlfriend, she
44:22
Speaker 4: made miss your congratulations, So send that text message or
44:26
Speaker 4: write email or something like that so.
44:27
Speaker 2: That way she gets it.
44:29
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about when you said that my grandmother is
44:31
Speaker 1: ninety and she will send a thank you note for
44:34
Speaker 1: to thank you.
44:34
Speaker 3: No, like there are so many steps in exchange. You're right,
44:38
Speaker 3: it is outdated.
44:39
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the right way to handle a disagreement at
44:44
Speaker 1: a family dinner table?
44:45
Speaker 5: I like to make a joke out of it. So
44:47
Speaker 5: I'll be like, okay, boys, take the off line. And
44:50
Speaker 5: then what I do is I immediately change a topic
44:53
Speaker 5: without skipping a beat. I'll be like, guys, we got
44:56
Speaker 5: the turkey from this? You know, posture and organic bomb?
44:59
Speaker 2: What do you think of?
45:00
Speaker 5: Or maybe aw someone else who's not involved in an
45:02
Speaker 5: open question? Right, But it require several sentences to ansa
45:06
Speaker 5: so it's so seamless, like you kind of checked them.
45:09
Speaker 5: But then immediately just change a conversation and nobody even
45:11
Speaker 5: noticing it.
45:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
45:12
Speaker 4: I mentioned that in my book as one of the
45:14
Speaker 4: prep things to do as a host is to start
45:16
Speaker 4: thinking in your mind, what can I talk about with
45:19
Speaker 4: the folks who are coming? Okay, so I know Aunt Susan,
45:21
Speaker 4: she went here, so I can ask her about her vacation,
45:23
Speaker 4: and so you have a nice little treasure from things,
45:27
Speaker 4: so that this way, if you need to shift the conversation,
45:29
Speaker 4: you can do so easily.
45:31
Speaker 1: But I was growing up, my parents would be in
45:33
Speaker 1: the front seat, my brother and I were in the back,
45:35
Speaker 1: and my mom would always say, Okay, what are our
45:37
Speaker 1: prompts tonight?
45:38
Speaker 3: People could say it's premeditated, but I.
45:40
Speaker 2: Actually love it. It's freezing on your radar, so cute.
45:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like I always think about that. Okay, tipping.
45:46
Speaker 1: When it comes to tipping in twenty twenty six, is
45:49
Speaker 1: twenty percent still the standard for dining out.
45:53
Speaker 2: It says I received good service.
45:55
Speaker 5: It's interesting because in Asia we don't tip, and in
45:57
Speaker 5: China it's considered offensive to tip.
45:59
Speaker 2: It's like a lot face. And then I remember when
46:01
Speaker 2: I was fourteen years old, came over here for boarding school.
46:03
Speaker 2: I took a taxi.
46:04
Speaker 5: I didn't give the extra twenty percent tip, and I
46:06
Speaker 5: got yelled at by the taxi driver.
46:08
Speaker 2: That's true, you've got your money.
46:09
Speaker 5: No, Because I like to go native and I understand
46:12
Speaker 5: tipping's very important in US culture, I just automatically give
46:15
Speaker 5: twenty percent on top of anything, whether it's a meal.
46:17
Speaker 5: You know. Now the big controversy is about if I'm
46:19
Speaker 5: getting my coffee right, and it's not even dining in,
46:22
Speaker 5: I'm taking it to go, and the little machine pops
46:24
Speaker 5: up and it says twenty five percent, thirty percent. That
46:28
Speaker 5: is getting people annoyed, and so for me, you know,
46:30
Speaker 5: when that first happened, I came back to the States
46:32
Speaker 5: a year ago and I was like, oh shock. I
46:33
Speaker 5: was like, what, like, that's getting to this level?
46:35
Speaker 2: Now?
46:36
Speaker 5: Can you just pay your people better? Which is what
46:37
Speaker 5: people do in act in Asia, the minimum base is
46:40
Speaker 5: just higher, so people WoT better taken care of. But
46:43
Speaker 5: I mostly just give it now, mostly because not actually
46:46
Speaker 5: even from an edque perspective, but from like an energy perspective.
46:49
Speaker 5: I just feel that if I have the mindset of
46:52
Speaker 5: abundance and it comes back.
46:54
Speaker 4: Right, which is good, and I think that's a good
46:56
Speaker 4: way to look at it from that perspective. But that
46:58
Speaker 4: tipping at the count, like you said, So here's the thing, right,
47:02
Speaker 4: if you're standing, you're receiving, you're not required to tip.
47:06
Speaker 2: In that instance.
47:07
Speaker 4: You can maybe you had just a really pleasant exchange
47:09
Speaker 4: with the person, or again you're giving to receive or
47:13
Speaker 4: what have you. Maybe you have a large order or
47:15
Speaker 4: it's the same person and they remember your order. That way,
47:18
Speaker 4: you're just not required. So that person who says Colley,
47:20
Speaker 4: I just want to get my sandwich because I save
47:22
Speaker 4: my money on a budget, I'm getting my Kodi, and
47:25
Speaker 4: this is all I got.
47:27
Speaker 2: I don't want.
47:27
Speaker 4: People to feel com to tell tip in that instance,
47:30
Speaker 4: when you're sitting here in the US, the tip is
47:32
Speaker 4: required because the servers are not getting paid a full pit,
47:35
Speaker 4: whereas the person standing behind the counter they are earning
47:39
Speaker 4: an hourly wage.
47:40
Speaker 2: And what has happened that the owners of these shops
47:42
Speaker 2: they are they keep the tip sometimes what or they're
47:45
Speaker 2: staying to their stuff.
47:46
Speaker 4: This is a nice perse you get tips, No pay
47:49
Speaker 4: them better. You're putting that on the backs of the consumers.
47:51
Speaker 4: And this who else is making money? The company then
47:54
Speaker 4: has the mission of the transaction, the more they need,
47:57
Speaker 4: so everybody's winning except for the consumer. So if you're standing,
48:01
Speaker 4: you're not required to do so. It's gracious to do so,
48:04
Speaker 4: it's wonderful to do so, but don't do it because
48:06
Speaker 4: you feel societal pressure.
48:08
Speaker 2: Right right.
48:08
Speaker 4: I think there's a proverb that talks about giving cheerful
48:11
Speaker 4: reach when you give to get to be a cheerful giver.
48:13
Speaker 5: And the people at the poements that with the foster
48:15
Speaker 5: casual stuff. People are feeling resentful now, yeah, and they
48:18
Speaker 5: shouldn't feel obligated that way.
48:19
Speaker 4: They should I'm on a soapbox for that, say, don't
48:21
Speaker 4: feel obligated, be cheerful when you give.
48:24
Speaker 1: It makes me so uncomfortable. I would rather raise the
48:27
Speaker 1: price of my coffee.
48:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can not have like I don't want to
48:31
Speaker 3: deal with that.
48:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's awkward.
48:33
Speaker 4: I think it's awkward because you feel pressured if you're
48:35
Speaker 4: wondering to people see and then if you say no tip,
48:38
Speaker 4: then you think, well, the person's now going to think
48:40
Speaker 4: that I'm cheap or I don't want to help them,
48:42
Speaker 4: what have you.
48:42
Speaker 1: But you don't have to, okay, you just have to
48:44
Speaker 1: want to dropping by a friend's house unannounced.
48:48
Speaker 3: How do you feel about that?
48:49
Speaker 2: Depends on how good a friend you all right? Okay?
48:51
Speaker 4: And it depends on the circumstance too. Yeah, death in
48:54
Speaker 4: the family, new baby. You know they're not feeling so well,
48:58
Speaker 4: haven't heard from them? Checking in on them to make
49:00
Speaker 4: sure they're okay. Now, they say, check on your strong friends.
49:03
Speaker 4: They might be going through something. I love a puffit.
49:06
Speaker 4: I find it so neighborly. Yeah, so it depends not
49:10
Speaker 4: everyone likes it, Yeah, not everyone likes it, but listen,
49:12
Speaker 4: like that whole check on your strong friends saying it's
49:14
Speaker 4: good you know, check on your friends. You don't hear
49:17
Speaker 4: from someone for some time, I haven't seen out them,
49:20
Speaker 4: and so forth.
49:20
Speaker 2: Check on them.
49:22
Speaker 1: How do you address body odor or bad breadth without
49:25
Speaker 1: humiliating somebody?
49:26
Speaker 2: Tell them privately. So what I do, and I've written
49:29
Speaker 2: about this in my book, is I'll be like, oh.
49:32
Speaker 5: Is that my be with yours? And then I'll say, oh,
49:35
Speaker 5: you know what, I've tried this great streat. It works
49:38
Speaker 5: so well, and it's changed life of me and a
49:40
Speaker 5: lot of my other friends. So it doesn't make it
49:42
Speaker 5: seem like they're singled out. That's really nice. I like
49:45
Speaker 5: that you put it on yourself. How do you gracefully
49:48
Speaker 5: end a friendship?
49:49
Speaker 2: I've had to do that.
49:50
Speaker 3: Okay, will you play it out with me?
49:52
Speaker 1: But I'd love to know both of yours and I
49:54
Speaker 1: know it's a longer conversation, but what text would you say?
49:57
Speaker 3: How would you do it?
49:58
Speaker 2: I've had to do that and in one instance, I
50:02
Speaker 2: just began to withdraw. That's the easiest one. I just
50:05
Speaker 2: began to withdraw. Flower response times say you're busy and
50:10
Speaker 2: not the hangout, no thank you, and the invites were
50:15
Speaker 2: no longer.
50:16
Speaker 3: So you think with draw it's a good one.
50:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, with doors the easiest one, because not everybody deserves
50:22
Speaker 5: an explanation. Not everybody needs to hear why. I mean,
50:25
Speaker 5: unless it's you know, your best friend, well, I mean
50:28
Speaker 5: I once broke up with a boyfriend of her text,
50:30
Speaker 5: but his ex wife divorced him by email and see
50:33
Speaker 5: to his mother. I mean, I think if somebody really
50:34
Speaker 5: does something to upset you, and that means that you
50:36
Speaker 5: really care about the right because they're a very close
50:38
Speaker 5: friend and they did something, then that deserves a conversation.
50:41
Speaker 5: And maybe you say I'm not ready to speak to
50:42
Speaker 5: you right now. I'll let you know when I am.
50:45
Speaker 5: I've used that and that's also been done on me.
50:47
Speaker 5: But that's like you know, your top zero points or
50:49
Speaker 5: zero one percent of your best friends. Otherwise I do say, Minzalaine.
50:53
Speaker 4: You just begin to withdraw because typically in relationships, especially
50:57
Speaker 4: when you're closed, and we'll begin to recognize that.
51:01
Speaker 2: Now if they come to you and they say, okay,
51:03
Speaker 2: I've noticed.
51:03
Speaker 6: You haven't called with them to get up together, and
51:06
Speaker 6: this is when you would have to say something to
51:07
Speaker 6: the fact to say, you know, I am moving in
51:10
Speaker 6: a different direction or at this point in time, I
51:13
Speaker 6: just don't see us continuing our relationship with ways Can.
51:17
Speaker 2: So I'm going to take a step back. That's nice.
51:19
Speaker 3: That's actually kind of cools the blow, Yeah, a little bit.
51:22
Speaker 3: Is it bad manners for.
51:24
Speaker 1: Manners I should say to talk about money? Or is
51:27
Speaker 1: it worse to pretend it doesn't exist?
51:30
Speaker 2: I think everything is contextual.
51:31
Speaker 5: You know.
51:32
Speaker 4: Let's say, for example, one thing I can say in
51:35
Speaker 4: the entertainment industry, I have friends who will talk and say,
51:39
Speaker 4: here's how much I'm getting paid for this? Because I
51:41
Speaker 4: want you to go in and find for what you're
51:43
Speaker 4: supposed to do that, right, Yeah, And so you're finding
51:46
Speaker 4: that in the entertainment industry. You're finding that in certain industries,
51:49
Speaker 4: and so that's something that is acceptable. But you definitely
51:51
Speaker 4: don't want to walk into somebody's house and say, good, great,
51:54
Speaker 4: this is great.
51:54
Speaker 2: How much did you get for this one?
51:56
Speaker 5: You know?
51:56
Speaker 2: So that is something. So here's a funny thing.
51:58
Speaker 5: In China, friends will come how much does this rent cost?
52:02
Speaker 5: And it's not considered that badness because they're like, well,
52:05
Speaker 5: if I want, I can go find a broker and
52:06
Speaker 5: find out how much it costs. Anyway, so it's public information.
52:09
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I love that bad? Wait?
52:10
Speaker 2: How much was that? Also? Because China went.
52:12
Speaker 5: Through this period of communism where everything was very transparent
52:15
Speaker 5: and everyone need the price of everything and everybody had
52:17
Speaker 5: the same thing. So it is again contextual, like Elaine said,
52:22
Speaker 5: and it's just funny culturally.
52:24
Speaker 1: Okay, I have six rapid fire quest. It's ready, Okay.
52:31
Speaker 1: What's the most common social mystery that people make in
52:34
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six?
52:36
Speaker 2: Facial expression for people?
52:38
Speaker 3: How many minutes late? Is fashionably late?
52:40
Speaker 2: Fashionably so that I am still acceptable within ten minutes?
52:44
Speaker 2: I agree?
52:45
Speaker 3: Worst etiquette sin interrupting or oversharing both.
52:48
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, so that's a tough one.
52:51
Speaker 4: Oversharing could leave an indubible mark and someone Yeah yeah, so.
52:57
Speaker 1: Maybe that one the smallest thing someone can do to
53:00
Speaker 1: make them instantly classy, be kind.
53:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, the biggest sign that someone was.
53:05
Speaker 2: Raised well the way they treat others. A book that.
53:07
Speaker 3: Changed your life, something you think everybody.
53:09
Speaker 2: Should read, Elaine Swan's Book of Modern Etiquette.
53:13
Speaker 3: You can't choose The girl.
53:16
Speaker 2: Manifests now by Idil Ahmed how Safe People? Yeah, there's
53:20
Speaker 2: book called safe People.
53:21
Speaker 4: Can't think of that author right now, but save people
53:23
Speaker 4: change my life and they helped me put boundaries out.
53:26
Speaker 1: What's something that every woman should try once? Whatever first
53:29
Speaker 1: came tore my high book.
53:30
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting that out of you. Yeah, definitely.
53:36
Speaker 3: I guess you are married to a rocker.
53:37
Speaker 1: Okay, right?
53:38
Speaker 2: Do it somewhere that is different? Yeah? I been there,
53:43
Speaker 2: done that.
53:43
Speaker 1: You could teach the world one etiquette principle that would
53:47
Speaker 1: make life easier for them, not your favorite, not the best,
53:50
Speaker 1: but would make their lives easier.
53:52
Speaker 2: Well, would it be think before you speak? That make
53:54
Speaker 2: life so much easier? Just give it a beat, yeah,
53:57
Speaker 2: and then speak.
53:57
Speaker 5: I want to say live moment to moment, because sometimes
54:00
Speaker 5: if you think too far ahead, you get into your
54:02
Speaker 5: head as opposed to being in your body. And I
54:04
Speaker 5: think when you stay moment to moment, you're in your
54:06
Speaker 5: body and your intuition and you're more present.
54:08
Speaker 2: That's beautiful, It's good.
54:10
Speaker 3: Do each of you have a favorite question when you're
54:12
Speaker 3: greeting strangers and icebreaker that you go to.
54:15
Speaker 4: I will ask, and I share this in my book.
54:17
Speaker 4: You can ask folks, how did you learn about the event?
54:20
Speaker 4: How do you know the person?
54:22
Speaker 2: How do you know the host?
54:23
Speaker 5: Yeah?
54:23
Speaker 1: I do unhitched ones, I'll do like, if you were
54:26
Speaker 1: to give a Ted talk in ten minutes, what.
54:28
Speaker 3: Would you give it on?
54:29
Speaker 2: Wow, that's one of your first questions.
54:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, the smartest decision that you've ever.
54:33
Speaker 2: Made marry my husband. Gosh, it's hard to say.
54:36
Speaker 5: I feel that even my poor decisions are my smalletest
54:38
Speaker 5: ones because I love the most from them.
54:40
Speaker 2: I don't like my poor decision. I wish they would
54:42
Speaker 2: go away, but I did learn from them. Yeah, and
54:44
Speaker 2: you love more about yourself.
54:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do me a favor and grab the card
54:47
Speaker 1: game and pick a card, any card. It's like tarot,
54:50
Speaker 1: So whichever one calls you and then we'll pass it
54:52
Speaker 1: to Sarah Jane. You'll pick one, So question everything.
54:55
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, I'm ready.
54:57
Speaker 3: Okay, Elaine, which one did you get? What?
55:00
Speaker 4: As you're defining characteristic, probably my kindness towards others. That's
55:04
Speaker 4: something that I am certain resonates with most people. They say, oh,
55:08
Speaker 4: she's so nice.
55:09
Speaker 5: Minus what should be required reading for every human? I say,
55:12
Speaker 5: anything spiritual, anything that elevates your soul should be required
55:16
Speaker 5: reading for every human.
55:18
Speaker 3: Whatever you're drawn to. Okay, you know what time it is.
55:26
Speaker 3: Today's a good day to have a good day. I'll
55:29
Speaker 3: see you next week.