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Cultivating Authentic Hope During Your Fertility Journey · Love and Science Fertility

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Hello, my friends, and welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: This is episode 14, finding Authentic Hope.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Today, we'll be talking about one of my favorite topics, which is authentic hope.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: We'll be discussing what it is, why we need it and how can we get some.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: If we don't feel like we have it right now, wonderful, let's begin.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Can we get some?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: If we don't feel like we have it right now?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Wonderful, let's begin.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: So what is authentic hope and how is it different from maybe inauthentic hope or pie in the sky hope?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I think one of my strengths is cutting through the stuff and really looking at a situation and saying, okay, you know, this is objective evidence for hope and you know, maybe in some situations there's not a ton and you know, those can be really really tough situations.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: But I think that if you're undergoing the fertility journey, what you deserve is somebody who will say it straight, you know and I mean say it straight with love.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: But I mean you know this sort of endless cycle after cycle after cycle and sort of not understanding protocol changes or you know why, to do another cycle or like I feel like a lot of my professional women, patients and clients but I try not when they're my patients.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I try to make this clear for them.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But I feel like a lot of the people I talk to in general about their fertility journey are really feeling very lost in the process.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: They don't really have a sense of like what the overall plan is in terms of, like numbers of cycles or protocols, or like what you know.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: If you were a chemotherapy patient, right, there would be like a treatment plan that was obvious.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: You would know how many cycles, you would know, like when it was complete and it would just be very clear, right, you'd know even what medications might be used to mitigate certain side effects.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's all sort of spelled out and written out.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I think you know sometimes in REI we do a better job of this than others, but, like I said, what we think we're delivering and what you, as the patient, experience, sometimes there's a big gap in those expectations and that reality, and so my goal for you is that, as you undergo this process, that you would understand, okay, is that, as you undergo this process, that you would understand, okay, like who am I specifically?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Like what is my working diagnosis?
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: What have I done thus far?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: What reasons, what authentic reasons, do I have to keep going on this process and what does the next stretch of this journey look like for me?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: And so I think you know when I think about, okay, what is authentic hope?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Because I have heard a lot of criticism about hope in general.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm going to go off on my little spiritual, religious tangent here.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: You know, faith, hope and love.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: We think about these things.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: You know, for those of us who really, you know, hold on to that faith, hope, love, like what is hope?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: In that setting, I think there's a lot of people, myself included, who derive a lot of strength, a lot of clarity, a lot of motivation's just all going to happen like magically, or, you know, I don't need to do my part, or I'm going to put the blinders on and see what happens.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I think there's almost this like sort of blindness that we can fall into, or like this false hope that's not grounded in anything that is evidence based or real or objective.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: That's not grounded in anything that is evidence-based or real or objective.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, I think it's really, really important to figure out what is authentic.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: What can I stick my fingers into and hold on to as something that is real in terms of reasons that continuing on this journey in this way makes sense.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So sometimes some examples of authentic hope are, you know, maybe you're on the younger side for fertility treatment.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: To this day, we still know that the greatest predictor of treatment success with our fertility treatments is age.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: So even if somebody is, you know, 24 years old and they have a low AMH, you know that still is, you know, helpful because hopefully the egg quality should be there.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: We just got to find out how to get to a good egg and a good embryo.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: It's not always that simple, but I think you know, just sort of keeping in mind that age is super important.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe you're somebody who makes good embryos in IVF and maybe they haven't connected or maybe they haven't continued on, but I think a lot of the rate limiting step in IVF is the ability to make good embryos.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe you're somebody who has good insurance coverage and you know, whereas other people might be financially limited in terms of the numbers of cycles that they could do, maybe there's more flexibility because you don't have to think about that variable in your care in terms of how much is coming out of your pocket directly and there's so many other things.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's that you have a diagnosis that is fairly typically easy to treat, like ovulatory dysfunction.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Like I said, nothing is black or white, so that's not always the case, but sometimes if we can get somebody to have enough cycles of ovulating with sperm exposure, then that can take care of that.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: So you know, like I said, I think looking at an individual in the context of their journey, looking at on paper, you know what is authentically hopeful about this person in their situation.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's really, really important.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: You know, not only is it helpful for motivation to keep going when it makes sense to do so, but it also creates this empowered stance where it's like I know why it makes sense to keep going.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I know that there are good things in my favor, just as if you were a cancer patient and had, you know, had a certain receptor status that made your cancer more treatable.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: It's very similar.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: What is it in your profile that makes this a better prognosis than it would be under different circumstances?
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's some good things, maybe there's some not so good things, but I think what we focus our attention on grows and sometimes we forget entirely to look at the things that are going well and the things that do make sense, because we're so focused on the things that aren't going as well.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So hopefully now you have a little bit more understanding about why I call this authentic hope and not just hope in general.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, why do we need authentic hope?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I think we touched on this a little bit with our few minutes of conversation before, but I think there's a couple of big reasons that we need it.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I think authentic hope is one of the key ingredients as we think about moving towards a successful outcome.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: We know in the fertility world that oftentimes the first treatment is not successful, sometimes the second isn't, sometimes the third or even the fourth treatments are not successful, and so this is a process that takes stamina, it takes persistence, it takes resilience and all of those things.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: And so if you get that negative pregnancy test after the third cycle and you just say you know what, I do not have it in me.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: This is too emotionally hard and I just can't see this happening and I just can't do it.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Objectively, however, if you knew that on that fourth or fifth cycle it would be successful, if you stuck with it, like, would that change your perspective and your motivation to keep going and we never know right.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I always say if I had a crystal ball, that would be a lot better, because then I would know exactly what to tell a person in their situation.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: But I think that you know, being crystal clear about what is going well for a person or a couple, it provides that energy, it provides that motivation to keep going when the times are tough.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And again, not to sugarcoat anything here, the fertility journey.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of emotional resources, it takes a lot of financial resources, it can put strain on relationships and so really trying to figure out how to buffer that in a way that makes so much sense, right, it's kind of like going through medical school and knowing that if you stick with it and study hard and do everything you're supposed to do, at the end of the day, hopefully you will graduate right.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Most of my clients are physicians, and so that analogy, you know, some way makes sense.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: All analogies do break down, I think, because if I could say that fertility treatment was a hundred percent successful, then you know that analogy would make perfect sense, because most people who start medical school do end up graduating from medical school.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I think the tough part is we don't always know if it's going to be 100% successful for each person or couple, and sometimes there is a role for pivoting in a certain situation when one certain pathway is not making sense.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: And so I will say people who want to become parents will become parents.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, what authentic hope can do is it can help clarify the values and the why, the reason for doing this in a way that does allow people to pivot if it makes sense to do so, if it looks like another way might make more sense.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: And so I just wanted to mention that, because I think that the goal is parenthood, and authentic hope can really be a bridge to successful treatment if it is used wisely.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: The second way authentic hope is really important, and actually why we need it I don't think it's negotiable we really really need this is because I see so much despair and so much apathy and so much fatigue in my incredibly strong and resilient patients and clients who are on this journey, and I think at some point it is true, we really do only have so much emotional resources, right, and it's not that we would ever want to become apathetic, but it's almost like it's impossible to keep up the will to keep going when we don't see the point like we have to.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: But it's like, well, I've had so much bad news in the past I don't even know why I hope anymore.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I don't even know why I think this might happen.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And I will say this is sort of dangerous on a few different levels.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: The first level is that, energetically, what happens is we block possibility.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So coaching will teach us that if we think to ourselves it's not going to work, then we feel a certain way, maybe hopeless, despair, maybe incapable, broken, and then we have a set of actions.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe we forget to take a shot at a certain time, or maybe we buffer and eat a lot of food in the pantry and end up gaining a significant amount of weight during the fertility treatment.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Or maybe we decide that we, you know, just can't take the relationship with our partner and we argue all the time and we have increased stress, like there's all these things that can happen in the context of a tough mindset, especially when we think that the fertility treatment is probably not going to work.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: And so then what we do is then we have these actions that almost lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: This is not to say that there is any blame here whatsoever.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I do not want to be misconstrued here.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is the flip side is true.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: When we think to ourselves it is possible that this embryo transfer could work or whatever it is, this ovulation induction cycle, et cetera, we open up the channels energetically for that to happen.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: It's like saying that we are ready to welcome this little one into our lives.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: There's something very open and receptive about that, versus the other way, which just tends to kind of shut down those things.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And so, from a very open, receptive place, what do we do?
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: We go to our appointments on time.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: We tend to have maybe healthier relationships.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: We sort of engage in the behaviors of somebody who really does trust that there's a chance that this could work, and the result is that it actually is possible, right, that we're not blocking our own success and that really we have that energy, that motivation, that trust, understanding that there's a chance.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It couldn't happen as well.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: You know that is possible.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But it's like I said, it's that openness.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And how can we get into that open space?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And part of it is tapping into that authentic hope.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: You know, you know me by now.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: One of my three pillars is empowerment as well as evidence-based, and so I think this kind of combines those in a sense, because when we think, oh, it's probably not going to work, I'm just going to do whatever my team says and go through the motions and it's probably not going to work, and then I'll move on with my life, when we do that, that's a very disempowered stance, I think.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: When we do that, that's a very disempowered stance, I think.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: When we are empowered, when we think that there's a chance it's going to work, when something doesn't feel right to us, when maybe we hear about something on a board or support group or something like that, and we ask better questions of our care team, those are the sorts of things that do enhance the chances of something working, because we're taking an active role in our care, we're asking higher level questions and we're not just going through the motions.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And so this is to say, I think it is very understandable to become apathetic.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: It's protective, right.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: It's almost easier than to hope it's going to work and then to feel that crashing if it doesn't work.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Of course, I also think that if we can get into a trusting space based on evidence, understanding that different possibilities are possible, I really do think it helps us in terms of approaching the fertility journey from an empowered stance and truly increasing the chances that this is going to work.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So that's why we need it right.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: We need to increase the chances that we can going to work.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So that's why we need it right.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: We need to increase the chances that we can stick with treatment when it's appropriate and bridge to a successful outcome.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And also, it really really does affect our mindset and how we show up, the energy we show up with in our fertility journey, which can really make all the difference.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So what, then, do we do to obtain this right, like that's?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: The holy grail is how do I have that balance of cautious optimism but then not leaving myself wide open and vulnerable in case it doesn't work right?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I think that authentic hope is not mutually exclusive.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: In many ways, I think that we can have authentic hope and understand that things might not work out.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: We can have authentic hope and make individual decisions based on our care.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: We can have authentic hope and challenge the current treatment plan and try to understand what's going on.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: It's not full acceptance, it's not full surrender, it's not sort of this pie in the sky like, well, some other force is going to take complete care of it and I have no role here.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: It's really striking that balance between empowerment and evidence-based and coming to care with the good feeling that you're doing your best right.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And that you're doing your best is not just based on hearsay, but it's based on objective evidence that is personal and particular to you.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So I have three suggestions for getting authentic hope if you feel like you don't have it already.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: The first is to look objectively at your journey.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I have so many wonderful clients and one thing we do in our love and science course is we actually say I have.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I have each client say okay, what are three pieces of evidence that there's a chance this fertility treatment might work for you?
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And like I said before, maybe it's that somebody's young, maybe it's that they have a bunch of embryos frozen in the freezer that are, at least on paper, good embryos.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's that they have a kid you know already and they're trying to have a second kid, like that's also a factor for authentic hope.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I have people go through and of course, there's not going to be two people who have the same three things, because every single person or couple that goes through this has an individual experience, right, so there's no two people who are the same.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: However, I think you know it might be like, oh my goodness, my husband has so little sperm this is never going to work.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Or oh my goodness, I'm already 39 and my time is running out.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Or, oh my goodness, like you know, whatever it is like, you know, I've had three unsuccessful embryo transfers, and how in the world can another one work?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Like all these things we tell ourselves keep us stuck and keep us feeling hopeless and in despair.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: And what I would do is it's not that we have to ignore those things.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: We could really say I really wish those three transfers hadn't been unsuccessful.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: We can hold that and say and my REI says this is what we're doing, this is what we're changing, this is what we're looking into, and we're really leaving no stone, no stone unturned and there is a very good chance that this fourth transfer might work right.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, it's not mutually exclusive, but it's looking objectively at your own journey and coming with at least.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I mean sometimes it's hard to come up with three.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I will be honest, this is kind of a tough exercise, but coming up with three at least ways in which your fertility treatment is likely.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: The second way and if it's really hard to do this on your own which it can be is to find somebody with some expertise who might be able to help you with this.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, like maybe you make an appointment with your REI and say like, hey, can you tell me and you can write this down and ask them this question Can you tell me what keeps you believing in me and my chances that this is going to work?
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Right, because sometimes we don't ask those questions.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, what's our next step and when's our next cycle and how do I get my beds and is my insurance going to cover it?
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Like we don't ask those questions like of somebody who really knows, who does this all the time and I think you know from my doctor hat.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Like one of the most powerful things I can say to a patient is I believe in you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Right, if I don't think it's going to happen, in one way I'm very honest.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's where that compassion pillar comes in, because that's the right thing to do if it's low chances, or you know, very low chances, or maybe even I really don't think there's any chances, or various sad conversations.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But that is why we need to start with a trusting relationship with the REI, so that these conversations in these different directions can happen and that you can trust them right.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So I would say what keeps you believing in me and my ability that this should work and hopefully that will lead to some fruitful discussions.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Now in my coaching hat right, we look at a lot of mindset stuff and I provide my perspective.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: It's not really medical advice, but I think objectively I can look at things and say, okay, well, you are 28 years old, that's fantastic.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Or, oh, you know, you do have four euploid embryos in the freezer, whatever it is.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And sometimes we just need that reminder from somebody outside ourselves that like, there are good positive factors in our favor here and sometimes that can balance out the negative a little bit.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: So that's my second piece of advice is to talk with somebody outside of yourself, somebody you know, not just like a blog, but like somebody with some actual expertise in the fertility world, to really help you identify what those factors for authentic hope are, because everybody has them.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: If somebody doesn't have them, then you know, then really that should be somebody you know where those hard conversations have already happened, right where those hard conversations have already happened right.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: So, in terms of my third suggestion, I really think that we cannot do this alone.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I think that we have power in numbers.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: We can lend our strength to other people.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: We can borrow strength from others when we feel weak ourselves.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: This journey is not for the faint of heart.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: It is so very difficult to be on this path, and I think that when we can come together in a safe, supportive space, when we can see the struggles of other people and finally celebrate with them when they have good news right on this on this long, long journey, we can think to ourselves huh, you know, if it happened for her and all of those unsuccessful transfers, et cetera, like, maybe it can happen for me too.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And so that's the beauty of support groups.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: We do this, you know, every other Friday night at Love and Science.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: It's just such a beautiful healing space that we've created.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: It is so uplifting to see people see their stories in the stories of other people, to really get authentic hope from other people sharing their stories.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And I really think that this is not an individual experience.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: We can get so isolated and say I am the only one going through it in this way and nobody can understand.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: That is truly just a thought, and I think when my clients come together with each other and they see that everybody who is in the group is a loving, kind, smart, supportive soul, it's just like this beautiful experience of receiving what people need to get through the next week or two intact, feeling, you know, neutral to positive about you know about the journey and knowing that they're not doing it alone.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: So I hope this was helpful.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I think my goal here was really to talk about like, how do I define authentic health, authentic hope, why do we need it and what do we do to obtain it?
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And so, as we think about all those different things, we have them at Love Science.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: It's sort of central to my mission here on this earth is to provide this for my clients, also in my clinical realm.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I provide it to my patients as well and also to help people give it to each other right, because this is it's not like oh, this is my piece of the pie, and if I have a piece of the pie, then you know, then that takes it from you.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It's one of these abundant things that like it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Just the more that we have, the more that we can share and the more that it grows for everybody.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So if what you heard today resonated, I would absolutely love to talk to you about whether love and science makes sense for you.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: You can go to my website and book a free discovery call with me.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I would absolutely love to talk with you and, like I said, this is not false hope.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: This is not pie in the sky.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: This is not this sort of disempowered sort of oh, everything's going to work out.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: This is like no, let's like really dig in, let's look at things critically, let's figure out, you know, what's going well, what's not going well and why continue.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Right, why continue?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And I think when people have a lens as to what that is, it really creates a lot of clarity and oftentimes what previously seemed impossible becomes possible.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know I love you.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next week.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Bye.