Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.405: The Role Of PR In The Success Of Beauty Brands Ft. Lindsey S., Founder VLIV COMMUNICATIONS

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E.405: The Role Of PR In The Success Of Beauty Brands Ft. Lindsey S., Founder VLIV COMMUNICATIONS · Skin Anarchy

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• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, welcome back.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, before the episode starts, I always have to chime in because I have my little tidbit I want to say.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: And for this episode, because um Lindsay is such a good friend of mine at this point, and I really admire her work and I love her um just drive to be such a successful career woman, and she kind of took everything into her own hands.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: And on that note, um, because she is a public relations professional, um, you know, she's one of the many that I respect very much.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I have such a deep appreciation for PR.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the work that goes into being a PR executive is like unreal.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're constantly working around the clock.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: So with that being said, I also want to mention that, you know, there are a lot of PR firms that I've you know run into.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lack of professionalism, and that's an actual problem.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think I I spoke of this um a little bit on my interview with um the founder of the PR net, and we were talking about that, and I've also had this discussion with so many of my PR friends that are just so they're very, very good, you know, in their field, and they you know, they've addressed it before.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: They've literally been like, ex I know there's two types of PR people.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's people who know their, you know, their professionalism, and then those that are a little lacking.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I understand that's the case in every profession, but I just want to remind anyone listening who is a PR rep or a an executive.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, most of the time it's not the executives that have the issue because they're really high up there in their rank and they've had so much experience, but it's like the newer PR people who are hired, whether it's interns, whether it's people who are just brand new, you know, professionals in the industry.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: Please be mindful how you speak to um publications.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, a lot of magazines, a lot of editorial that's done is um it's it's a lot of work and very little reward many times, especially for a lot of indie publications.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I just humbly ask, please keep that in mind and be kind, you know, and um also realize that not all of us are you know out to get a brand or something.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of PR people like it I find it to be very tacky when I request products from a PR firm and they literally don't send them.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I cannot stress to you enough how obnoxious that is.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not about the products, and I want to finally set this record state for uh straight for myself and for a lot of influencers I've actually spoken to, a lot of people I've spoken to that are in editorial.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: We don't care about the product like getting to us.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: We have so much product we don't even know what to do with it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Problem is if you don't send us the right products, we can't like write about them or speak about them, or in my case, I can't evaluate them for something like top picks, you know.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a reason behind why we request what we request.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Additionally, you know, um editorial is a very busy world, you know, and people cannot publish immediately.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: So please be mindful of that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Please be respectful coming into this new year, you know, 2023.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: I hope that we can all respect each other in the beauty space.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone has a really key role to play, and I love that.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like I said, I'm an a huge fan of everything PR, some of the most generous and amazing people I've ever met, have been in the realm of public relations.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: So hats off to all of you.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: You're all phenomenal human beings, and um, you're about to hear all about uh one of those human beings and her journey through the world of PR here in a minute.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for tuning in, guys, and um, you know, I hope you enjoyed the episode.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to Captain Anarchy.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm your host, Ekta, as usual, and I'm very excited for our guest today because I haven't had a chance to interview a wonderful executive from the PR realm.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm a huge fan of my PR friends that are listening in.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: By the way, I'm a huge fan, you guys.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: You guys are what keeps us going.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I can't thank you enough for all your support.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: But without further ado, I can't wait to learn from our guest today.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to introduce you guys to Lindsay Smolin, who is the founder and uh president of VLI Communications.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Lindsay.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to be here.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm really excited to learn from you because, you know, like I said, I have this, I really have an immense appreciation for PR and just how much work and hustle goes into it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And especially, you know, just looking at the landscape now with beauty and skincare and how many brands there are.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I just can't imagine the workload that you deal with on a daily basis.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: So um I'm excited to have you on and to learn from you.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: But first I want to get started with you telling us all about yourself, like your background, how you got into you know, PR.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: Was that your first pick as a career choice?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: All the all the details, if you can walk us down memory lane.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I really appreciate that you have such a respect for our industry.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like we we oftentimes are um, I'm just like PR in general is sort of like kind of like the unsung heroes in some ways.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: So we don't always get the due appreciation.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I just I so love that you're just so um open in your respect for us.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it's the respect is absolutely mutual with, I mean, obviously you and what you're doing with your platform and really just so many of the podcasts in general, I feel like are you know, you're really breaking the way and um really making some interesting moves here in the space.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I personally love what you are doing with skincare anarchy.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's it's amazing um how you're really sort of like pushing the uh the the beauty space on its head.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: I really love it.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: That means a lot.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: So to give you a little bit of background, um, so actually, I always really loved storytelling and journalism.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: That was sort of my my first love as like a child, even when I was like nine years old in elementary school, I would be um writing for the school newspaper.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: I love just like digging deep, investigating, getting really deep down into the heart of whatever the story was, really trying to find out the truth.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I was always kind of like kind of fancied myself as like a small town sleuth trying to solve mysteries around the name.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, I just Nancy Drew, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then yeah.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was one of my favorite book series growing up, actually.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, me too.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, those books were great.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so really just loved uh just like learning as much as I could and really telling stories and really telling narratives that that would resonate with audiences.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: So taking the facts of whatever I was researching, whatever I was working on, and turning that into something that would be relevant for audiences and for readers was something I really loved doing.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, from like I said, from elementary school all the way up into like high school and college.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then once I got uh into college, I was, you know, and really had to narrow down my career choices.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_04: I was seeing that this was probably in around like 2008, um, you know, sort of seeing that the industry was changing a lot, that maybe journalism wasn't, it was just very competitive, um, really difficult to break into.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's when I started to consider maybe uh switching years a little bit into like the PR and communications space.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_04: My um major in college was mass communications, so I sort of had um kind of like a touch point in on every sort of um aspect of the communications industry.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so then after I graduated college, I interned for both um PR agencies as well.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then I thought I got a job in-house for a travel, a hotel travel booking site, um, doing marketing PR and events for them, which I really loved.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: But I was sort of starting to see that I missed the editorial interaction.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, really working with the media and really creating stories that were very medianic was really what I was missing.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: I just craved that like journalism.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_04: And but I also really loved, I always loved working with beauty.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my mom was always in the beauty industry ever since I was a young girl.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: She would work in salons and I would go with her sometimes, um, test out different nail polishes and lipsticks.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was so much fun doing that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um so then when I really was looking at different careers after, you know, working at my first job and sort of kind of re-evaluating where I wanted to go, realizing that there were a lot of amazing beauty brands out there that I really wanted to just get the story out about, just really build awareness for, uh, get their messaging kind of front and center in front of a lot of these key publications, which would then of course translate into broader awareness amongst their consumers and audiences.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um so after I had worked at the that travel company, I did work a little bit at different agencies as well as doing some freelance work.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: But I always had this like entrepreneurial drive to to really do my own thing.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I started a small consultancy um probably around like almost 10 years ago called Lindsay Smolin PR.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: It was really just me kind of working more as a solopreneur with some of my own small clients as well as freelancing for other agencies.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then actually during the pandemic, um in I think it was like the winter of 2021, I decided to switch gears again and decide to really establish my my company as an agency.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: So that's when I rebranded it to Live Communications, um, brought on some team members and really built it out to really help serve the beauty brands that that we love and that are really doing very cool and interesting things, getting their messaging out there, really making sure that it's compelling for both um the media as well as just their broader audiences and consumers.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it's really just comes from a passion of telling great stories, I think, and just getting helping brands that we love tell their incredible and unique stories.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, I really I think that, you know, some of the best PR executives in Beauty that I've met have been people who really appreciate it for what it is, you know, the space and and really finding that talent.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know that the clients that you represent are always like really, really just the quality of people that I personally find to be, you know, the real interesting people, right, in the space.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I think that's a whole art and a skill in itself is to be able to find um, you know, clients and and brands and founders that are really meaningful these days, you know, and and representing the right brands, representing the people that are really making a change and and making a statement.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and so I think I it's fascinating, you know, that you wanted to go into journalism, but then you ended up in PR because I always, you know, I was having a conversation, I think, a while ago about how much PR is, you know, heavy in the journalism because you guys are like the the makers of you know the the relevance level of a brand.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like if you have a good PR uh person behind you, you're gonna be thriving as a brand because they're the ones that are they know how to position you, they know what's going on in the market, in the in the space, in the industry.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like that's invaluable, you know, that's so many skill sets in one.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's crazy to to think about that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's it's so true.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we really do, I think that it is very valuable for brands to obviously have a PR team because this is what we do day in and day out is we work with editors, we hear what stories that they're covering, what's resonating, what messaging is working with their audiences as well.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: Which of course, again, that's the readers of these publications, they are our brand's consumers.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: So they do want to make sure that they're targeting them with the right messaging.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: So they are really getting a lot of really great feedback from being able to dialogue directly with a lot of these editors.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's it is really key to be able to know how to speak to the editors in a way that makes sense to them, um, to really give them topics and ideas and stories that are going to resonate with their audiences.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I think a lot of brands, um, you know, even with the marketing department, like they they obviously have their messaging and all of their goals and everything all spelled out, but maybe they don't know exactly how to work with editors because it's not what they do on a day-to-day basis, which is totally understandable.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's why I think it really is crucial for, you know, once brands are at that level to be able to bring on a PR team because we we do it day in and day out.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's what we do, that's what we specialize in.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we're not trying to be everything to every brand.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: We really want to focus on delivering really quality stories for the amazing brands that we work with.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's um definitely a really, a really great and exp exciting space to be in.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I think that, you know, um, in terms of like really getting through like what somebody is trying to do.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's it's a hard top, it's a hard thing to do when you're the founder and when you're the person who's created something, because you know, at that point you're you know, you're looking at it from a lens, you know, your own lens.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you need somebody else who can bring in this this perspective.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really, you know, where I have so much appreciation for PR because it's like, you know, it's not just about, okay, well, we connected you with a few editors, you know, it's more about like, well, you're really guiding the brand and the founder and showing them how to expand their business.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, from a business level, I have just immense appreciation, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like no one teaches you this stuff.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't you don't learn it in school.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: I got an MBA, I didn't learn any of it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: So if I like if I, you know, if I needed PR help, if I needed that help in this specific area of like my business, I would go to, you know, someone like you.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't be trying to do that on my own.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that's my point is that, you know, um PR is such an interesting r, you know, area and and um, you know, field because like I said, you have to have a very multifaceted kind of personality, I think, to be good at it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, that's to me, I I don't think you can really teach that in school.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like it it either comes to you or it doesn't.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I definitely I learned a lot about PR in school, but again, this was like 15 years ago.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Some of it has definitely stayed with me.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, for the most part, I think what's really helps me with my career and helps me grow has been things I've learned on the job.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's not really something that you can study.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's definitely something you you pick up a lot of these things and you pick up, it's a lot of people skills.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's yeah, like you say, it's it's so many different skill sets that that go into it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's a little bit of sales, honestly.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you're selling not only to the media, but you're also, you know, myself as being the owner of the agency.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_04: I am the one who's selling to prospective clients to selling our services.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so there's there's just so much that that goes into the role of a PR specialist these days.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think especially now, um, our roles are definitely becoming more and more, they're becoming broader, but also becoming more crucial.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm talking to a lot of other people who work, um, either have their own agencies or work within the agency space.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of us are having to continually expand our skill sets, which I do think is very exciting.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, like a lot of us are diving into affiliate marketing for our clients just because that's so crucial for any sort of editorial coverage nowadays.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so we're really trying to offer as much value as we can to the brands that we work with because we understand it is a challenging time all around for everybody right now.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: And we still want to be able to provide our skills in a way that that makes sense to the brands that we're working with.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, it makes sense.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and, you know, Lindsay, I really want to ask you this question because I think that it's so important in terms of like the educational um material out there around public relations and especially for all of the the budding PR executives out there that are that are tuning in, you know, just to give them some advice too, is this idea of you really going solo and doing it and just taking that leap and um doing things the way you wanted them to be done, you know.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that that takes a lot of guts and it takes a lot of um obviously energy and enthusiasm and ambition, but it also takes a lot of planning, I'm guessing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: So would you mind sharing some of those details with us about, you know, when you realized that with Vlive, you wanted to be, you know, you wanted this more autonomy, this more freedom, you know, and and what led to the real creation of it and um what were some of the hurdles and some of the the victories that really kind of helped you along or whatnot?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's that's uh definitely something that I I think about a lot.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, well, thank thank you for acknowledging, I guess that with in terms of just like opening a business, and I'm sure as you know as well, just like launching a business, it's can definitely be really scary.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and there's there are of course like tools out there and guidebooks and everything, but it doesn't really prepare you for it um, for what's what it's actually going to feel like.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I really decided to kind of rebrand from when I was, as I mentioned, I was Lindsay Small in PR for a very long time and then rebrand it into Live.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um it was actually it happened during the pandemic.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I had been, I had worked working with a business coach who was really phenomenal and helped me um sort of just see really how to position uh my services and the work that I had done for clients in the past in a way that really highlighted the value that it did bring to the brands that I worked with because I think I was always selling myself a little bit short.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think especially, I feel like especially as women within the business industry and as business owners, it's it's easy to to not realize your own successes and it's easy to put yourself down or compare yourself to others negatively and to not really realize how far you've come.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I was sort of stuck a little bit for quite a few years.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then the pandemic hit, and that's actually sort of what um kind of was the the impetus to to kind of get me to launch something new and to do something a little different than I had been doing, instead of working more as a freelancer and doing some different work for different agencies and smaller brands.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: I knew that I wanted to be the one who was really leading these really impactful brands and really guiding their strategies, seeing as I had done so in the past for other brands, but just not really not either not under my own agency's name or um or not not doing so with really brands that were they were a little bit more emerging, maybe not um quite at the level that I was I felt that I that my skills were now kind of tied into.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: And also I think um because it was my name, as I mentioned, I wanted something a little bit bigger than me.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_04: I knew I wanted to build a company that wouldn't be just based around me, that it wouldn't be just my name.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't, I didn't want to be like the bottleneck anymore or really like the the kind of like the business like kind of lives or dies by me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to build something that could support not only me, but could also build a team.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's something that's been really important to me.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_04: We we do have a few team members working under me at VLIDNow.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's something that's really important to me, you know, again, especially as a woman.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and helping women grow within their careers is just like that's something that's very meaningful to me.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: I because I feel like it's it's still hard.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like even though, you know, we're in 2022, almost 2023, there's still like so many setbacks for women, I feel like.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's as much as we can really like make a name for ourselves and make a way for ourselves.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: I want to do so.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: So to really help other women grow within their careers, like to learn to learn the ropes of PR, really, you know, become more confident in themselves and their abilities by working at my agency has been something that's also been like a pretty big um Um, one of my my company's now, like sort of big core values as well.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that was something else I wanted to do.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it was hard when it was, you know, just named after me at this like small consultants.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like I wanted something bigger that could really grow and support not only me, but companies I believed in and team members I believed in as well.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it makes sense.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's so important um that you have that, you know, that awareness because I I know a lot of people that don't believe in um, you know, letting go of that like need for it's me, me, me, me, me.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Everywhere, like their name, their their personality and their headshot.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's so many people out there.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like you got the billboard and you got the freaking, you know, bench and stuff.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just it gets to be so much, but it's, you know, and it's humbling to hear that, you know, you don't have to be front and center of that stage all the time to have a successful business because you really don't, you know, you just have to be, you have to have quality, I think, first and foremost.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, in the PR realm, I always wonder because it's there's so many agencies and they're repping so many different kinds of brands.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I always wonder, you know, what is it that is that turning point, you know, for a firm where they go from being in one category to just one of the best firms.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I always like, you know, when someone pitches me or I have the opportunity to interact with with PR firms, I always try to think about that just as an outsider because, you know, I've noticed that that this theme that you've mentioned is kind of underlying in in all of the really, really good uh firms I've worked with.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is this idea of, well, it's not about us, it's about what we're doing here, you know, and what who we're trying to reach and what we're trying to accomplish.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that a lot can be learned um in that, you know, within just that one principle by young professionals or or students in public relations or anyone really, you know, it there's a lot to learn with that mentality.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I really applaud you for that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I love that you, you know, are spearheading your business with that because it's it's important, especially now.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, and I yeah, I totally agree that it's uh yeah, it's definitely a big part of really what you're doing and who you're serving.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's not, it's not about you, it's not about your company, it's about how you can help both the people that you're working with and really the broader public.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like I know again, it's PR.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe it's not like we're not saving lives or anything, but it can be really impactful.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I do, you know, I don't take that lightly and I do really try to um remember why I got into this and really like the positive changes that that I hope to make.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I I think that one of my biggest questions though, Lindsay, is honestly like, what is it that I mean, you know, when it comes to like finding a firm, right?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like what is I want you to give us some advice that a lot of uh younger brands can um relate to because I think that um the whole process of finding a PR firm itself is very daunting, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you don't really know um where to start if you're not in the industry or in the profession yourself.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that, you know, um, I'm not gonna lie to you, you know, having done skincare anarchy now for almost three years, I've interacted with a lot of PR executives and, you know, some of them have not been very nice.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not gonna say any names, but there were a few encounters I had, you know what I mean?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like, well, I I wonder how your brands feel because what is it that it takes, you know, and what are what are the things and qualities that brands should be looking for, or rather even technicals that they should be looking for when they're considering, you know, which form to sign with.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there's, I mean, there's definitely, I feel like it, there's, you know, sort of maybe some hard and fast metrics you can follow, but a lot of it does go by feel as well.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like if it's an agency that you just feel comfortable with, if you feel comfortable speaking to whoever, you know, you really need to speak to whoever is going to be the lead on your account.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to get the understanding that they that they have your best interests in mind, that you're not just another brand that they're just cycling through, that they do really care about you and your success.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they're really interested in listening to you, hearing what your goals are, what you're hoping to achieve with PR.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because some of these agencies, um, I mean, there's a lot, a lot of quality agencies out there for sure, but there are also some who kind of have more of an old school mentality, I think, where they, particularly when it comes to newer brands, they do tend to sort of just cycle through them.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like maybe they and they have just a game plan that they just recycle.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's very cookie-cutter for each brand.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and while there's certainly different processes that you can follow for each brand that that make sense for the most part, you do want to make sure that you're delivering something unique for each client.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like some agencies they do unfortunately tend to maybe they'll like have somebody higher up kind of talk to the client initially when they're a prospect, and then when they sign, they give the account over to somebody more junior who's not really that skilled within whatever uh area or industry it is.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: So really make sure that you you speak to who's actually going to be working on your account and that you just feel comfortable with them, that you feel like they know that they have at least have a decent understanding of what you're hoping to do and that they have the right connections.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you definitely want to look at some case studies of different brands that they've worked with, preferably brands that maybe have encountered a similar challenge that you're going through right now, that they can, that they've assisted with in the past, that they've created a really compelling strategy for.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's always great, of course, to get like referrals from past clients as well.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_04: But I would say to just really um just really talk to them and really kind of try to get to know them a little bit on a deeper level.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: Just make sure that they have the expertise in your niche and that they have the um really the drive and the just the energy and the excitement for your brand because PR can be really challenging and you do your, you know, your day in, day out talking to editors who are incredibly overwhelmed, incredibly busy.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't believe in the brands that you're representing, it's going to show through and it's going to negatively impact the brands.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: So you really want to work with an agency that's excited about your brand and your company, that has an understanding of it, and that you just feel good with.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that's something that's obviously not really that measurable, but I feel like you kind of know it when you see it.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you feel comfortable with the agency and you feel like they they have a solid understanding of what you're trying to do and they have some good ideas and recommendations of how to get there.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think uh a lot of people, I hope you took notes on that because I think that's very important is to have people who are willing to listen.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I think in this world of just cut, you know, cookie cutter beauty, as you had mentioned, Lindsay, it's very easy to fall into that, you know, that uh web of and you know, the whole of just becoming another cookie cutter brand.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I hate to say it and it's the truth, but like a lot of that really depends on, you know, if you're a new brand and you have the wrong PR firm, I mean, a lot of that's gonna come from them if they're not pitching you the right way or they're not, you know, understanding your vision or your your ethos or whatever that is, you know, all the all the words.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's they're not gonna, if they don't get it, they don't get it and they're not gonna be able to do justice to you.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I think this topic is really important, especially for new brand founders, because I can't tell you how many times people reach out to me and I'm like, I am not a PR executive.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but I can connect you with some really good people I know in the industry, you know, it's like because they're confused, you know, they're confused.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like as a new brand, you like, I mean, you don't know where to go, you know, you don't know who knows which editor and who knows, you know, what outlet.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and so, like, you know, for example, I had a brand reach out to me like a week ago and they were like, well, how do you get into retailers?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, do you have a PR firm?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, no.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, that's a good place to start, you know, like that's that's it's like leave it to the professionals.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: They know what they're doing.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this message of like really getting that to, you know, into the ears of um new brand founders is so important nowadays because everyone's really trying to do this whole YOLO thing, I've noticed.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just not, I feel like it's either hit or miss.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think they miss a lot, you know, in terms of um what they could be doing if they were just going to the professionals, you know, go to a professional, get go to a PR firm, find an executive that can understand you.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this it's such an important message, and um, that's why I keep harping on it because there are so many brands, as you already know, you know, they're just coming out from everywhere these days.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I always wonder like, you know, do PR firms even need to try to get clients?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because I feel like there's so many, you know, potential clients now.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's a yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, go ahead.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, I was just saying it's just an important topic for, you know, emerging brands.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and on that note, I actually want to ask you, because I know that um, you know, some PR firms, I know retainer fees can get like exuberantly high, right?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a lot of like factors that go into like why brands go with certain firms or why they, you know, whatever the decision-making process is.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love to get your um just opinion and I think a more clarity, like more clarity and understanding around why peer firms have the right to charge be for this because there is so much work, right, that you guys do.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think that brands don't understand that in the sense of some brands, because I've had this conversation.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I'm bringing it up.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I've had this conversation with people and they're like, well, you know, I just I can't afford that or whatever.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, you know, they're doing a lot of work.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just writing an article, they're literally putting your name out there into the abyss of what we consider to be, you know, how to get uh notice.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love your opinion and your your perspective on that, the whole topic.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it definitely, of course, it makes sense that especially for some of these like really new brands that they can't afford um the retainers that come with PR agencies, and that is understandable.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that it's it's definitely while it is a recommended expense that I do recommend that, I mean, not even just speaking as a PR professional, but it is important to really get that um that awareness built as soon as you're really financially able to, um, to really make sure that you're communicating the proper messages.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: But there's definitely a lot that goes into why PR agencies charge the way they do.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, a lot of it, a lot of it just goes into the value that's delivered to the clients.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's not even the um, yeah, I mean, for sure, if you get a brand in like, let's say Birdie or um InStyle or um Refinery29, like that can definitely be really huge in driving direct sales that you can track um directly from that placement.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: But even beyond that, it's really just building that awareness of your brand, like and building that market share.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because for especially for newer brands, like a lot of them are going to be completely unknown within whatever their space or their niches.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, even no matter how kind of like dialed in you get, there's gonna be many other competitors.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: And if you want to stand out amongst them, you have to have a strong and compelling PR strategy that's going to be helping you get in front of these editors who are going to be writing really um, you know, these really just credible third-party endorsements, just the the kind of implied endorsement that comes from that from being mentioned in like Wall Street Journal or New York Times or even Cosmopolitan, like any of these publications, to be able to say that like this editor, you know, gives their their stamp of approval on your brand and on your product by mentioning it, that really is incredibly valuable.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: That brands can then take that that sort of placement, whether it's to retailers or investors or if they're looking to get even higher profile speaking opportunities.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think it's it's really important for those types of um, just really for that value that it can bring a brand to help grow it and grow its awareness and its presence within their market.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but also absolutely there is a lot of work that goes in on our end as well from researching, like doing uh competitor and industry research when we're creating the strategy, um, you know, from from doing the writing and really looking into all of the media outlets that would make sense for your brand to pitch your brand to, from coming up with story ideas and pitch angles that we know are going to resonate with the media, with um with different outlets.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_04: And really, it's also just a lot of our experience and our insights.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm not comparing a publicist to like or a PR pro to a doctor or a lawyer, but you know, you can go to a lawyer with like an easy question that takes them five minutes to answer, but they know that answer from their years and years of experience of doing this.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and yeah, you're gonna have to pay like however many hundreds of dollars to get that answer, but it's gonna probably save your butt in whatever situation that you're in.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And also it's um, you know, it is really based on their years of experience that they've accumulated.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_04: So I think when you come into a really talented PR agency or PR pro, who just has these years of experience of knowing what types of messages will resonate with editors, like we've been doing this for so long now, and we just under, we have such a deep understanding.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's like pretty much in our bones.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: So even if, you know, maybe like writing a pitch, honestly, sometimes can take like one of my team members or I like 15 minutes, but it will be a pitch that will that will land as some media just because we know what they're looking for, what works, um, just from how long we've been doing this for and from our deep expertise within this field.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: So you're paying for that as well.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: You're just paying for the years of experience that it took to get here and the lessons learned that that we've come across.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then of course, you know, we do have a network that we're really tapped into and we use, we do also we invest in a lot of um resources and tools and softwares to streamline our processes and to make things um easier for clients as well.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like we, you know, we invest in reporting tools, in media databases.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so all of that, of course, adds up as well.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it really is, it's not just something that you do like whenever you feel like it.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: It really is an ongoing process to really help build a brand and to really ensure that its messaging is consistent and staying in front of the right on the audiences.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that it takes a lot of work to make that happen.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, if you're a brand, for example, you know, Lindsay, like right now, there's so many brands that are coming out that are.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I recently wrote like a little article about CBD brands, you know, and like so many editors are like, oh, CBD's dying, C BD's dying.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sitting here like, oh my God, I bet this is a nightmare for PR reps that rep, you know, CBD beauty brands.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's, you know, it's just to deal with that whole situation.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the amount of stress and the amount of like the amount of stuff that goes behind like rectifying that and still remaining stable, keeping your brand stable and your clients happy, like that's a lot, you know, that's a lot.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I just I I really have a lot of appreciation for all that hard work.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, it just it it it just bothers me when people um they don't go to the professionals, you know what I mean?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like they it it it bothers me because I'm like, they went to school for this, you guys.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like they went to school, they trained for this, like they it did internships, countless hours of free work, you know, free labor to get the expertise they have.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and the fact that you don't utilize that, I mean, that's kind of it's disheartening to see that.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I love, I love what you said, and I really, you know, um, I really champion, you know, this whole industry and the whole realm of PR because, you know, without you guys, like honestly, I'm I'm I'm gonna keep it real, you know, I wouldn't even my business wouldn't be a thing without PR.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, if it weren't for all the amazing people that pitched me, including you, you know, including all of the wonderful people I've met, I wouldn't have even have a podcast.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like the work that is done in this industry is I mean, in this specific area of the industry is so meaningful that I think that it's time to give PR like the the respect and the due diligence it's been deserving.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean, for a long time.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just I I just don't know why we don't talk about it more, you know, especially in the beauty area, in terms of like editorials and stuff like that.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's just a huge, huge part of it all.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that's like I said, very much appreciated that you really respect the industry so much.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, like I said, I feel like we don't don't always get the respect that the industry deserves in general, especially from someone as like, you know, accomplished as you who has this incredible podcast to be able to use your your platform to to really, and it is, it's definitely um like a mutually beneficial effort between you know outlets such as yours and PR pros.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's it's really really great to hear that you have such a respect and appreciation for the industry.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: No, absolutely.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: I really do.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that really leads me to my main question for you, Lindsay, and that's really around um really the wisdom, you know, of what it is that you've learned through your career.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: You still learn, you know, every day, and and really passing that on to young professionals because I'm not joking.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've you know, I've had interns that I'm like, you would be really great in PR.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: And some of them, I could you not have been like, you know, I've reached out to people, they're so busy, nobody can shadow, you know, I can't shadow anybody.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really want to put that advice out there for them, um, you know, from from a trusted source, you know.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd love for you to give us some some you know nuggets of wisdom for the young professionals tuning in about getting into PR, getting your feet wet, where are the places to start?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, should they jump into an internship right away?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, what are some approaches that they can utilize to really kind of get a feel for the for the career path?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, definitely I would recommend just doing as much as you can, like soaking up as much knowledge as you can and figuring out what you do like to do and what you don't like to do, what your strengths and weaknesses within the PR space are.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I mean, of course, like writing and organizational skills and all of that are all really crucial, but some people are a little bit more creative and strategic, and some are a little bit better at like project management.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so just sort of knowing where your brain kind of operates and where you really feel like you function best, which I think you only get from taking on a variety of different positions.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I do think that working, like interning at an agency, can be a really beneficial experience.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it depends it's gonna depend on the agency, of course.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like some of these, I know some of the bigger agencies, they tend to just have their interns do um kind of more menial work.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_04: So you might want to really try to look for some sort of an internship at a boutique agency where you can really get some hands-on learning experience and definitely, you know, try it all out.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like try in-house, try agency work, see what you like and see what works for you.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but really just sort of the biggest, I think sort of thing that I've learned just uh kind of throughout my career is to always really be authentic and human.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, at the end of the day, we're all people working with people, even though we're working with publications, we're working with big companies and brands.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like at the end of the day, the person that you're speaking to is a human being.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: So just keep that in mind and really try to um be of service as much as you can to the people that you're working with.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, always try to come to the table with a solution.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you see a problem somewhere, don't just state the problem, like try to always bring one or two solutions to possibly fix the problem.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and just really, you know, I think it goes back to what I was saying before as well when you are looking for a PR agency, just have that energy and that enthusiasm, like that really does show through if you enjoy what you're doing, if you enjoy what you're learning, that's gonna be really apparent and that's a valuable skill that that can't be taught.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like you can have all the technical skills to be a strong publicist.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but if you don't have that that passion and that drive and just um, you know, really wanting to to help grow brands that you're working with, then that's going to that that is gonna show through.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um so really just be as genuine as as you possibly can.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: I really, really love that.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's just excellent advice.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I can't tell you how many times I I see the you know the younger generation and I'm just like, I don't get, you know, how they work, you know.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: So it in terms of like uh how they decide what career path they're gonna go down, and then you know, you hear things like, well, we don't know the you know the 101 of how to get into this, you know, track.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, well, you should probably go shadow somebody, you know, or you should you reach out to the right person, but it, you know, in this fast-paced world, it's it's hard to do that.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I really appreciate you, you know, you really kind of driving that home because it's very true what you said, you know, and I I think there's a lot of potential here for a lot of young professionals as well.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're living in this in this world.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: And this is another reason I really appreciate, you know, that hard work and hustle um shows in this specific career track.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I that's I think PR is one of the very few uh tracks that are left to, you know, to that you can say that about, you know, in tr in the world of like professional careers is that you know, if you work hard, if you really, really bust your ass and just do what you you have to do and stay true to yourself, you can still make it, you know, in this career.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a lot.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Of uh, you know, doors that have been shut over the years, like for example, a lot of magazines have shut down, you know what I mean?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of journalists majors are now like reconsidering, like, you know, what do they want to do?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: What are where are they gonna go?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's no uh paper or print anymore, right?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's a really good um area to explore, you know, for for young professionals.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think uh understanding where to begin is always the first step.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I I love the advice that you give.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, but uh, you know, Lindsay, I want to round out the episode and I really want to um ask you your opinion actually and and perspective about where you think the beauty industry is right now um as compared to maybe, I don't know, like I guess 10 years ago, um, or whatever it is that you like last week, you know, examined it really, you know, from a philosophical standpoint, because I think we all have um our opinions about it, but I think it's definitely changed.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I love to hear from your angle, you know, what you've seen in terms of changes or, you know, setbacks or good decisions or whatever it is that you've seen.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, definitely.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my God.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's been so many changes um within the past, even like five years, honestly.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, like we're seeing, I think this this past year, we've seen a lot of like indie brands sadly close.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: They just didn't have really the the funding or the sales to continue forward, or they just they didn't really have the internal structures.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think that really what I'm seeing is indie brands, they do have to be a little bit careful of where they're spending their money and how they actually launch and sell their products.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, especially with like everything that's happened with the the iPhone privacy update, with um like the the targeted ads and all of that, as well as how it's just become so much more expensive for brands to to kind of do the digital advertising and the ROI isn't there as much as it was before.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I think DTC is changing quite a bit.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like it used to be really easy for brands just to launch DTC, do a lot of um paid social ads, and they would acquire consumers.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's that's definitely been changing within the past like couple of years now, and brands are having to return to retail and really like looking at their their wholesale approach, which I think is maybe something that not every brand has thought through.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: So they really have to um ensure that they're very well set up for to sell in retail and that they have um everything in place in order to do so effectively.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like they really have to be able to educate the salespeople at all of the stores about their products, about how to use the products so that they don't end up, you know, getting all the products returned back to them.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um there's just really there's a lot of business decisions that have to be made that I think um maybe some brand founders of the past didn't necessarily factor in.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um so that's definitely something that that I'm seeing is people are just being a lot more strategic with how they're growing their businesses, which is great.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then of course, really just the the whole sort of shift away from, you know, back in like kind of the like 2008 to like early 2011, 2013 era, um, we were seeing a lot of brands that were just calling themselves green or natural.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: And that was like a big thing.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that was like all you had to do was say that your brand was green or clean, and then you know, press would write about it and retailers would pick it up, and obviously consumers and media and everybody in the industry has gotten way savier in realizing that honestly, like even in many cases, chemicals aren't necessarily even dangerous.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it really depends on what it is, what chemical it is, what purpose it is, um, the purpose it has.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_04: And really, I think the key factor now is sustainability.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: Brands, if they don't have a sustainability pledge, or if they don't have any sort of um way that they're proving that they're doing their best to not negatively harm the environment, they're gonna be called out.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: So, which I think is I think that's a really great step forward, actually.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I feel like people are getting a lot smarter.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: They're questioning brands a lot more and they're less fearful to do so um to, you know, to kind of, you know, come back on them at different claims and different marketing claims that they're making and asking, like, what proof do you have?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: Asking for the scientific proof for the the data, the clinical trials.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then also, like I said, just to it doesn't, you know, you can call yourself clean or green, but what does that even mean?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's not a regulated term.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so brands would really be steering away from that, which I think the smart ones definitely have been.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_04: And they've been leaning more into um the efficacy of their products, the safety as well as the sustainability.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think that those are going to be what consumers are really leaning towards within the coming um, you know, next few years and where the the industry is heading.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think a lot of sort of the the green fluff and green this the greenwashing, I think is kind of dying down, which is a positive because I think it was a little bit misleading to consumers.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I I think that's that's really, really like on the money, what you said, it's exactly like, you know, a lot of things I noticed as well.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're absolutely right.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like this whole green, clean, natural, organic, whatever that was.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to call it a movement, but I think it was a lot of confusion and it's gone.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's starting the haze is the haze is lifting, you know what I mean?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, and now we're we're rediscovering that we had no idea what we were talking about in the first place, though.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, I mean, I'm sure that's a really, really interesting, you know, um kind of twist for the PR side of things.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, now it's like, you know, buzzwords are always trendy, but it's it's more about, you know, how do you get over a buzzword?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like you have like, you know, now and you can't say natural now, it's not gonna hook them.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like now what do what do we say now about your brand or how do we talk that whole process?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I just I can't tell you how many like you know, props I give you and your colleagues because you guys I would be so stressed out.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: If a client had like a natural brand only and it that was like their thing, and then you know, now you have this new landscape, and it's like I can't talk about that anymore as much.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's like reevaluating the whole pitch and all that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think it's phenomenal what you do.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's really, really hard work, and um, I have an immense, you know, just amount of appreciation and just awe that you guys get, you know, get through it every day and and and keep it moving.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: So um huge thank you to you and all of your colleagues that you know that are in this industry and the in this niche of beauty because you guys are really the you know the game changers and behind the scenes, I mean you're really the ones that are the pushing, you know, out the information that consumers are getting.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: And there really needs to be a more recognized, like a more recognition, right?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like I feel like um, you know, when I look at the PR world, I I just see like, you know, for example, the PR net is amazing, you know, I love them.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that there needs to be more publications that are dedicated to like giving, you know, respect to this this field and this uh area of your career path.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it it's it's so important to acknowledge um more technical fields, you know.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's really where I'm trying to go.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's like PR to me is not a fluff field.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's a technical field.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have real skills, you have to have, you know, people skills, uh, you know, tech skills, like IT skills, you know, organization, like you had mentioned, uh, project management, and there's just so much.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so there needs to be a more, you know, like technical recognition of that.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think that there needs to be more dedication out there from, you know, whether that's like media or magazines or whoever's listening, you know, about these efforts.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I just wanted to say that.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, this has been so wonderful, Lindsay.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're amazing, and I absolutely love everything that um you guys are doing at VLIV Communications.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a huge fan of your work and and I I really champion you.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I think there needs to be more people like you uh in your in this track.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_04: That that means that really means a lot, truly, especially as I've said, coming from you.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I completely respect and love everything that you're doing with your platform as well.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's definitely nothing else like it, and it's such a game changer.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm so excited to see where you continue to go.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: I I love skincare anarchy.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_03: That means the world to me as well.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I hope everyone listening in, you guys love this episode.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: And if you have any more questions at all about PR or anything, let me know and I'll uh pass them along to Lindsay's team and maybe we can get some answers for you guys, you know.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's uh definitely something worth exploring.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like I said, if you're a young professional, anybody interested who in the in the career, you know, get the information from the people that know it best, you know.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I really urge all of you listening, you know, comment, leave your comments, email us, whatever it is you prefer.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I hope you loved the episode.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: And if you did, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_03: That really helps us a lot.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I'll be back next time with another episode.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 53:18
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• 53:23
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• 54:06
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• 54:11
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• 54:17
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• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.