Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 11 - MAN DETAINED FOR QUESTIONING AND RELEASED

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 11 - MAN DETAINED FOR QUESTIONING AND RELEASED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother,
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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie missing day eleven in the last hours. Another
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Speaker 1: note to TMZ. This is after last night's disheartening catch
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Speaker 1: and release of a potential suspect. I'm Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us. What incentive is left for them to return
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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie?
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Speaker 2: The legitimacy of these ransom notes truly coming to question
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Speaker 2: more and more.
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Speaker 3: Are there more than one perpetrator here?
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Speaker 2: That's going to be somebody at least connected to her
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Speaker 2: that has something.
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Speaker 1: Againa another missive in the Nancy Guthrie search has been
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Speaker 1: sent to t m Z short for thirty mile zone
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Speaker 1: surrounding LA. It's not from the kidnapper. It's from someone
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Speaker 1: offering to give up the kidnapper for one Bitcoin, which
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Speaker 1: at this hour is valued at around sixty six thousand dollars.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Crime Stories investigator Dave Matt, what do we.
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Speaker 4: Know well this new note in the Nancy Guthrie case, Nancy,
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Speaker 4: is it? As you mentioned, it doesn't seem to be
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Speaker 4: coming from the actual kidnappers. Instead, this is someone offering
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Speaker 4: to give up information about the kidnappers. Now, this note
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Speaker 4: came in early this morning, eight am Eastern Time. The
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Speaker 4: sender claims they've tried unsuccessfully to reach Savannah Guthrie's brother
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Speaker 4: Cameron and her sister Amy by email and text. The
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Speaker 4: note goes on, if they want the name of the
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Speaker 4: individual involved, then I want one bitcoin to the following wallet.
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Speaker 4: Time is more than relevant. Now there is a legitimate
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Speaker 4: bitcoin address in the note, and it is a different
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Speaker 4: address from the one in the origin ransom note that
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Speaker 4: TMZ received and the two twoson television stations. Right now,
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Speaker 4: it's unclear if the center of this note is legitimate. Bye,
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Speaker 4: one bitcoin worth about sixty six thousand dollars right now.
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Speaker 4: And you know they're offering up a fifty thousand dollars
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Speaker 4: reward for information leading to Nancy's kidnappers. So this was
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Speaker 4: received earlier today. Maybe not the kidnappers, but offering info
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Speaker 4: on the kidnapper.
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Speaker 1: Wow, that's another bombshell in already a confusing and circuitous
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Speaker 1: route of evidence straight out to Jessica Finn joining us.
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Speaker 1: She is the senior investigative reporter at the US SUN.
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Speaker 1: She has been on the gu three disappearance from the
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Speaker 1: very beginning hour one. Jessica, give me a recap. I'm
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Speaker 1: trying to figure this out. We've got a fifty thousand
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Speaker 1: dollars reward on the table if they send the sixty
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Speaker 1: six grand the one bitcoin to this person, and it's legit,
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Speaker 1: that reward would really compensate for the bulk of that. Okay,
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Speaker 1: tell me your understanding of what's happening right now and
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Speaker 1: why TMZ. I'm glad you know it's TMZ because Levin
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Speaker 1: and a lot of people bombard me with this when
3:17
Speaker 1: I say it. But Levin, unlike a lot of actors,
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Speaker 1: a lot of participants, let me say, would capitalize on
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Speaker 1: the notes they received. Levin did not publish them. He
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Speaker 1: took them straight to the FBI. He didn't just, let
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Speaker 1: me just say, a technical legal term, whore out for
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Speaker 1: the clicks. Okay, he could have done that. He didn't
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Speaker 1: do that, and he's still refusing to state exactly what
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Speaker 1: was in the missives. So good, I'm glad it went
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Speaker 1: to Levin at TMZ five o'clock in the morning Pacific.
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Speaker 1: Tell me what you know.
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Speaker 5: So this is actually going to be the third ransom
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Speaker 5: letter that's been sent out. We had the first one
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Speaker 5: that initially came out demanding these six sixty million that
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Speaker 5: went out to KOLD, k GUN and TMZ. Then we
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Speaker 5: had this second letter that just went out to KOLD
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Speaker 5: that came sometime, I want to say, and my days
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Speaker 5: are now totally merging together, but sometime, I believe towards
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Speaker 5: the end of last week. And that was basically the
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Speaker 5: message that Savannah had Savannah and her brother and sister
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Speaker 5: had responded to, where Savannah said, we received your message
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Speaker 5: and we understand, we would we still want the return
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Speaker 5: of our mother. We will pay and we you know,
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Speaker 5: this is how we'll have peace. So this is now
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Speaker 5: the third letter that's been sent. It's the second letter
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Speaker 5: that's gone to TMZ. TEMZ didn't get the second letter
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Speaker 5: that Savannah responded to last week. And basically this letter
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Speaker 5: says that they had tried unsuccessfully to reach out to
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Speaker 5: Annie Guthrie and Annie and Cameron Guthrie, Savannah's brother and sister,
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Speaker 5: and they are saying that they have information to show
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Speaker 5: the authorities who this kidnapper is exactly, and they want
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Speaker 5: the amount of just a bit above the fifty thousand
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Speaker 5: dollars FBI reward. They want sixty wanted one bitcoin, which
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Speaker 5: equals about sixty six thousand dollars for that information. Totally
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Speaker 5: terrifying situation. You don't know what what is real, what
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Speaker 5: is fake at this point and certainly just another to
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Speaker 5: kink in this really awful and long saga about finding
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Speaker 5: Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 1: You know, Jessica Finn, I don't know how you can
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Speaker 1: have your ear to the ground seemingly twenty four to
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Speaker 1: seven three sixty five, because the moment this happened, you
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Speaker 1: are all over it. I'm just curious what your take is. Okay,
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Speaker 1: we could talk about why TMZ hykold y k gun forever.
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Speaker 1: Obviously the person is from Tucson or from the Tucson
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Speaker 1: area that maybe grew up watching k Gun or kold.
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Speaker 1: But TMZ has a certain demographic, right, I look at
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Speaker 1: it all the time. I have my that I read
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Speaker 1: every morning and throughout the day. Some are stuffy and
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Speaker 1: stodgy and some are TMZ where I find out the
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Speaker 1: latest in the world of wrestling and UFC fighters and
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Speaker 1: just all kind of crazy celebnies mixed in with news
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Speaker 1: like this. So that leads me to ideas on who
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Speaker 1: the purpose is that they have isolated TMZ kold k gun.
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Speaker 1: But I find interesting here and I want your take
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Speaker 1: on it, Jessica. Why the let me just say communicator
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Speaker 1: states that he she tried to reach Annie and Cameron
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Speaker 1: and couldn't. What do you make of that?
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Speaker 3: Well, you know, that is actually a really interesting point.
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Speaker 5: And if you recalled, there was an individual that gentlemen
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Speaker 5: not gentlemen, that was arrested during late last week for
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Speaker 5: sending a colansom note to Annie Guthrie specifically thank you
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Speaker 5: to Annie guph and her husband specifically demanding money, and
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Speaker 5: that guy got arrested for faking it.
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Speaker 3: And you know he had sent there.
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Speaker 5: That letter went straight to the siblings, And so I
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Speaker 5: don't know if maybe this person's been following the case
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Speaker 5: and thought let me try the siblings first as the
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Speaker 5: quieter route.
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Speaker 3: But TMZ certainly is the way to get the bullhorn
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Speaker 3: on your note if you really want it reported and
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Speaker 3: you want it reported quickly.
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Speaker 5: It sounds like TMZ has been the way to go
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Speaker 5: because the local affiliates were a little bit more close
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Speaker 5: to the best and we're a little bit more slow
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Speaker 5: to report that they had received those ransom notes, whereas
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Speaker 5: TMS has a little bit I probably has a much
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Speaker 5: bigger team of attorneys and people guiding them as to.
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Speaker 3: What they can and cannot say.
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Speaker 1: Mm hmm mm hmm. You know what I also find interesting,
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Speaker 1: and let me tell this to Matthew Lopez. He is
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Speaker 1: the owner of the largest criminal defense law firm in
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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, Arizona at Matthew Matthew. I noticed that this
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Speaker 1: communicator stated that he tried, she tried unsuccessfully to reach
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Speaker 1: Cameron Guthrie sister Annie Guthrie. He didn't mention Savannah Hello,
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Speaker 1: she's been posting on Insta. Why not reach her on Insta?
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Speaker 1: Be so easy?
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Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, it would be easy. And that kind of leads
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Speaker 6: me to believes that it may not be true. And
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Speaker 6: he wants to get to TMZ because he knows that
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Speaker 6: the masses watch TMZ and they READTMZ. I'm very skeptical
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Speaker 6: about paying somebody for information. To date, we haven't had
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Speaker 6: any proof of life, we haven't had any follow up
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Speaker 6: communications about any of the ransom. We have no reason
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Speaker 6: to believe that the original ransom was even true, So
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Speaker 6: why should we even believe that this second demand for
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Speaker 6: one bitcoin there's some legitacy to it.
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Speaker 7: I would give.
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Speaker 6: If I was advising the family, I would say, look,
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Speaker 6: you know, let's not start going down this hole, right
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Speaker 6: we could. This could spiral out of control to one
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Speaker 6: thing leads to another and another and another of just
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Speaker 6: a fictitious hoax of ransoms and requests and demands, and
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Speaker 6: it just does not pass the smell.
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Speaker 7: Test for me mm hmm.
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Speaker 1: And Matthew Lopez guys, I give him a hard time
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Speaker 1: because he defends criminals and he knows their criminals. But
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Speaker 1: he has dealt with so many criminals he can definitely
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Speaker 1: smell a rat. To doctor Bethany Marshall, this person wanting
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Speaker 1: sixty six grand has the if it's real, has the ability.
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Speaker 1: Fuck okay. Brian Fitzgibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security.
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Speaker 1: His team goes all over the world locating missing people.
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Speaker 1: What do you make of it? This guy has the ability,
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Speaker 1: if it's real, to save the law for Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 1: But he's using her, he's bortering his alleged knowledge when
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Speaker 1: he could just save her life and get the fifty grand.
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Speaker 1: If it's real, de phrase, if it's real?
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Speaker 2: Right, this is with all the media attention twenty four
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Speaker 2: to seven on this case, I have serious doubts that
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Speaker 2: this new note to TMZ is in fact authentic. You know,
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Speaker 2: sixty six thousand dollars aligns with the fifty k that
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Speaker 2: the FBI is offering. The obvious question would be asked,
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Speaker 2: if they had real information, why would they not bring
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Speaker 2: that to the FBI and cash in on the fifty k.
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Speaker 2: This will be immediately investigated, But I believe that this
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Speaker 2: is just yet another distraction and what's turned into a
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Speaker 2: bit of a media circus.
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Speaker 1: Here of his gibbons. If it's not real, he can
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Speaker 1: go down just like Kalela did for his fake ransom
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Speaker 1: that he texted to the family. He just got charged
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Speaker 1: under eighteen USC and he's facing felony charges by the
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Speaker 1: Feds and they don't play. So if this guy's lying,
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Speaker 1: he can go join Kalela for a little tea party.
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Speaker 7: Agree, Yeah, I.
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Speaker 2: Mean I would defer to the defense attorney here on
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Speaker 2: that one, But I would think that the FEDS would
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Speaker 2: absolutely prosecute this in some way if it turns out
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Speaker 2: that this is not authentic.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace For those of you that
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Speaker 1: went to sleep last night thinking, ah, finally a crack
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Speaker 1: in the case. We're gonna bring Nancy Goree home alive.
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Speaker 1: Then woke up to your hopes dashed this morning, Join us,
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Speaker 1: we all feel the same. Overnight there was a flurry
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Speaker 1: of activity when SWAT teams, decked with shields and full
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Speaker 1: SWAT tech gear rolled out for the first time since
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Speaker 1: Guthrie goes missing. That was significant. Taking off in armored vehicles.
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Speaker 1: They all gathered from two at least two jurisdictions. The
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Speaker 1: location was kept away from the media. It was not reported.
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Speaker 1: Then they descended a person taken into detainment. This morning
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Speaker 1: we learn he is released. Joining me in All Star
12:51
Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we are learning. Straight
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Speaker 1: out to Dave mac Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave.
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Speaker 4: What happened minutes Nancy? Minutes after the FBI released the
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Speaker 4: pictures and the video of the suspects at the door,
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Speaker 4: the FBI and the Sheriff's department was flooded with tips
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Speaker 4: from everywhere. Within a matter of minutes, the SWAT team
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Speaker 4: gets loaded up and heads straight for Annie Guthrie's house
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Speaker 4: and neighborhood. They're going door to door talking to neighbors.
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Speaker 4: They're looking through the bushes, they're looking in story sheds.
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Speaker 1: They were everywhere for.
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Speaker 4: Hours yesterday, and as you mentioned, Carlos Palezuelas is not
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Speaker 4: necessarily pulled over. He was being followed by a number
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Speaker 4: of law enforcement in Rio Rico, which is about fifty
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Speaker 4: eight miles south of Tucson, about fifteen minutes from the
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Speaker 4: Mexican border, and he's near his home when he stops
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Speaker 4: the car and says, hey, why are you guys following me?
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Speaker 4: They then they being law enforcement, detained Carlos and began
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Speaker 4: a search of his vehicle. They searched his house, they
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Speaker 4: searched his garage and by the way, Nancy search warrants.
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Speaker 4: They had search warrants already prepared. When they arrived at
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Speaker 4: Carlos house. At his residence, they bashed in the door,
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Speaker 4: they broke the garage door. They looked all over the place.
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Speaker 4: We thought we have a suspect in custody, and two
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Speaker 4: hours later Carlos was released.
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Speaker 1: Jessica Finn joining a senior investigative reporter us Son not
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Speaker 1: only that as they law enforcement was searching the property
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Speaker 1: of Carlos Palezuelos, they had hostage negotiators on the standby
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Speaker 1: a few blocks away. They really believed that Nancy was
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Speaker 1: somewhere near by, and then hopes dashed. And I don't
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Speaker 1: want to hear one bad word about their efforts. I'm
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Speaker 1: talking to you, Lopez, because they're out there beating the bushes.
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Speaker 1: They're trying. This guy may have fit a description and
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Speaker 1: may have been something about him that tipped off law enforcement,
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Speaker 1: but it was a detainment, not an arrest. They questioned him,
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Speaker 1: they searched the location thoroughly, and they let him go. Okay,
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Speaker 1: hold on, Jessica. Matt Lopez joining us from this jurisdiction Arizona.
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Speaker 1: He is a veteran criminal defense attorney. He is the
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Speaker 1: owner of the largest criminal defense law firm in Arizona.
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Speaker 1: You can find him at Matthew Lopez dot com. Matthew
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Speaker 1: much was made last night. He was detained? Is at
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Speaker 1: an arrest? Could he leave? Did he get his Miranda rights?
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Speaker 1: Explain detainment? Under the US Supreme Court view of it,
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Speaker 1: he was detained.
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Speaker 6: It's my understanding his brand rights were not read for
16:03
Speaker 6: a couple of hours after this stop. If he is
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Speaker 6: if they're not asking, if he's not under arrest, and
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Speaker 6: they're not asking questions exactly relating to the incident. So
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Speaker 6: emphasis on under arrest. If he's free to go, they
16:16
Speaker 6: don't have to read the miranda rights. So he's a
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Speaker 6: person of interest from my understanding, and based off the
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Speaker 6: video that I watched this morning, they were simply just
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Speaker 6: asking him questions about his identity, but mister Pazuelos claimed
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Speaker 6: is They asked him questions about his study for about
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Speaker 6: two hours and then they just released him. The vehicle
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Speaker 6: that he was driving in is at his residence right now.
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Speaker 6: And from what I understand, they weren't able to connect
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Speaker 6: any dots relating Carlos to this incident. So I don't
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Speaker 6: know where why they pulled him over. I have no idea.
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Speaker 6: That doesn't make any sense to me, but it seems
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Speaker 6: to me like, at least as we stand here today,
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Speaker 6: he's not connected to the incident.
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Speaker 1: Guys, that video of mister Palazoilos is from our friends
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Speaker 1: at CBS News. Let's take another look at him, and
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Speaker 1: I'd like to compare him to the masked intruder at
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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's home. Okay, look at him. He's got a mustache,
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Speaker 1: he's got to go tee. He's got a little bit
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Speaker 1: of a beard. He is light but swarthy. He has
17:21
Speaker 1: dark hair. Now look at this guy. Let's keep looking
17:25
Speaker 1: at this guy, and let's look at the intruder from
17:28
Speaker 1: several different angles. I can see the similarity in the eyes.
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Speaker 1: And I want to get that shot of the mask
17:37
Speaker 1: where you can see somewhat of eight mustaches. There you go,
17:42
Speaker 1: there you go. None of these are you know, this
17:45
Speaker 1: was not taken in a photography studio. Okay, so we're
17:48
Speaker 1: working with what we've got. You apparently has a little
17:52
Speaker 1: bit of a mustache showing and a little bit of
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Speaker 1: what would appear to be a soul patch or a beard.
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Speaker 1: Now let's look at Pelazuela's again. I see why law
18:03
Speaker 1: enforcement was looking at him. Okay, back to Jessica Finn,
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Speaker 1: joining US senior investigative reporter, the US son who's been
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Speaker 1: on the case since Nancy Guthrie went missing. What is
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Speaker 1: your version of what happened to last night? Because we're
18:17
Speaker 1: getting well, they're not necessarily divergent. There are just additional
18:25
Speaker 1: facts in different reports. For instance, everything Dave Max said
18:30
Speaker 1: was correct, but yet we know the hostage unit was
18:33
Speaker 1: on stand by, a mobile hostage negotiator team was on standby,
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Speaker 1: which means they thought Nancy would be in the vicinity
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Speaker 1: of Palezuela's Okay, that was not meant to be. What
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Speaker 1: more can you tell us, Jessica Finn.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it certainly looked last night like we were going
18:49
Speaker 5: to possibly be bringing Nancy home overnight, and unfortunately that
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Speaker 5: of course didn't happen.
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Speaker 3: From what we understand, Carlos's parents live in Tucson.
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Speaker 5: They live kind of in the vicinity of Nancy Guthrie,
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Speaker 5: So it makes sense that there's a lot of different
19:05
Speaker 5: connections between him and the Tucson area that Nancy is in,
19:09
Speaker 5: including that his parents lived there.
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Speaker 3: He is a delivery driver.
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Speaker 5: He drops off packages directly in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, and
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Speaker 5: he of course fits physically from what we can see.
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Speaker 5: From what our eyes can tell us is he fits
19:22
Speaker 5: the similarities in the description of what we see in
19:25
Speaker 5: the perpetrator in that video. So clearly there was a
19:28
Speaker 5: good reason that law enforcement had to connect him to
19:31
Speaker 5: that area. He possibly even dropped off packages to Nancy's home. Specifically,
19:37
Speaker 5: he was asked to buy the media last night and
19:39
Speaker 5: interviews after he was released, did you deliver a package
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Speaker 5: to Nancy's home?
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Speaker 3: And he said, look, I don't know, I could have.
19:45
Speaker 5: I may I may have, But clearly, once law enforcement
19:49
Speaker 5: did a deep dive into his history and his identity
19:53
Speaker 5: and his and his home that he appears to share
19:56
Speaker 5: with his mother, they eventually decided that he was now
20:00
Speaker 5: the guy, at least not right now, and they decided
20:02
Speaker 5: to release him. They had sent out the FBI last night,
20:06
Speaker 5: had the SWAT team out, they had hostage negotiators out,
20:11
Speaker 5: and it reached a real fever pitch, probably around eleven
20:14
Speaker 5: eastern Eastern time, that it seemed like something was going
20:18
Speaker 5: to happen. And of course at the end of the night,
20:21
Speaker 5: by the time we all woke up in the morning,
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Speaker 5: it was determined that he was He was released.
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Speaker 1: Dave mac back to you, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave
20:31
Speaker 1: You stated something to the effect of, I don't know
20:33
Speaker 1: why they pulled him over. Well, all right, let's examine
20:36
Speaker 1: that he is in the area where Nancy Guthrie disappeared.
20:42
Speaker 1: He delivers packages to her neighborhood, which is a small
20:47
Speaker 1: neighborhood and a reclusive neighborhood. So it's not like you
20:52
Speaker 1: deliver packages to East fifty fourth Street in downtown Manhattan,
20:57
Speaker 1: where there are thousands and thousands of people on one street,
21:01
Speaker 1: so that there's that he also loosely fit the description.
21:08
Speaker 1: So what about that, Dave mac did you take into
21:11
Speaker 1: account that he had delivered packages routinely to that neighborhood
21:16
Speaker 1: And wasn't it just in the last forty eight hours
21:18
Speaker 1: we learned that delivery people, yard people, pool people, landscapers
21:24
Speaker 1: employees were all giving buckle or buckle swabs. That's DNA, remember.
21:30
Speaker 4: That absolutely, And maybe I'm misspoke. Let me point out something,
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Speaker 4: Nancy that the law enforcement efforts we have all followed
21:39
Speaker 4: these and I thought it was amazing how quickly from
21:43
Speaker 4: the time the video was released to the public and
21:46
Speaker 4: the pictures that law enforcement was able to get together
21:51
Speaker 4: with a search warrant for the home in Rio Rico.
21:56
Speaker 4: We're talking about a search warrent that was all inclusive.
21:58
Speaker 4: Both ms carrs were they had prepared for this and
22:02
Speaker 4: it came down very quickly, within minutes of the actual
22:06
Speaker 4: video going public. Also, we know that his mother in
22:11
Speaker 4: law in Tucson, she said that you know, officers showed
22:14
Speaker 4: up at her door and they told her they being
22:17
Speaker 4: law enforcement. Told Joseph Fina, this is Carlo's mother in law,
22:22
Speaker 4: that somebody had given them a tip that the lady.
22:25
Speaker 4: This is what she said. They had somebody give a
22:27
Speaker 4: tip that the lady was in my house. I told
22:30
Speaker 4: them you can go ahead and search my house. There's
22:32
Speaker 4: nobody here. I have nothing to hide. So they, being
22:35
Speaker 4: law enforcement, were able to really zero in on Carlo's
22:41
Speaker 4: for multiple reasons. As you mentioned, he does look similar
22:45
Speaker 4: to what we see in that video released by the FBI.
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Speaker 1: We are also learning that there has been a huge,
22:52
Speaker 1: huge swell of tips being called in. In fact, the
22:58
Speaker 1: FBI has created a unique website for Nancy Guthrie, and
23:04
Speaker 1: we're going to put that up in just one moment,
23:05
Speaker 1: but I want you to see what I believe, not
23:09
Speaker 1: only the front porch video, but a plea, a heartfelt
23:14
Speaker 1: plea from Savannah Guthrie directly to us.
23:19
Speaker 8: Hi, there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just
23:26
Speaker 8: share a few thoughts as we enter into another week
23:33
Speaker 8: of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all,
23:39
Speaker 8: thank you so much for all of the prayers and
23:46
Speaker 8: the love that we have felt, my sister and brother
23:49
Speaker 8: and I, and that our mom has felt, because we
23:55
Speaker 8: believe that somehow, in some ways, she is feeling these
23:59
Speaker 8: prayers and that God is lifting her even in this
24:01
Speaker 8: moment and in the darkest place, we believe our mom
24:06
Speaker 8: is still out there.
24:10
Speaker 1: We need your help.
24:11
Speaker 8: Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock trying to
24:15
Speaker 8: bring her home, trying to find her.
24:18
Speaker 1: She was taken and we don't know where.
24:22
Speaker 8: And we need your help. So I'm coming on just
24:28
Speaker 8: to ask you, not just for your prayers, but no
24:31
Speaker 8: matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson,
24:35
Speaker 8: if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything
24:38
Speaker 8: at all that seems strange to you that you report
24:43
Speaker 8: to law enforcement. We are at an hour of desperation
24:47
Speaker 8: and we need your help.
24:50
Speaker 1: She's right, this is the hour of desperation because the
24:54
Speaker 1: ransom we believe has been paid, the deadline to pay
24:59
Speaker 1: it has past, and if it has been paid, there
25:03
Speaker 1: is no incentive left for the kidnapper to hand over
25:07
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie. A lot has been made. What happened? Was
25:12
Speaker 1: this really a kidnapping? Was that a quote medical event
25:16
Speaker 1: such as her having a stroke or a heart attack, Well,
25:19
Speaker 1: her body wasn't there, so that's pretty good indicator. She
25:23
Speaker 1: didn't fall or have a stroke or a heart attack.
25:25
Speaker 1: Her cane left behind. Much has been made is that
25:30
Speaker 1: a real kidnapping? But when the front porch video emerged
25:35
Speaker 1: thanks to the FBI Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team, all
25:42
Speaker 1: those theories were put to rest. I want to give
25:46
Speaker 1: you that FBI website it is and we'll put up
25:50
Speaker 1: a full screen for you to look at FBI dot
25:54
Speaker 1: gov slash wanted slash kidnap slash see Dah Guthrie FBI
26:03
Speaker 1: Gov wanted kidnap Nancy's dash Guthrie. There are also tip lines,
26:09
Speaker 1: including anonymous tip lines. Okay, what can we learn from
26:14
Speaker 1: this video? Let's take a look at it in full.
26:20
Speaker 1: I would like to also point out to doctor Bethany
26:25
Speaker 1: Marshall joining us for now in Psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills,
26:29
Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker. You can see her now on
26:31
Speaker 1: Peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall
26:34
Speaker 1: dot com doctor Bethany. After these stills and this video
26:39
Speaker 1: came out, the Guthrie family states they do not know
26:46
Speaker 1: who the purp is. Now, if we could, I'd like
26:50
Speaker 1: to see the best photo we have still photo of
26:55
Speaker 1: the purp's face, the best still. There you go, there's that,
27:01
Speaker 1: which to me the eyes look almost effeminate. But yet
27:05
Speaker 1: this is a man based on the way he walks,
27:07
Speaker 1: based on his height, which I'm going to go to
27:10
Speaker 1: fitzgibbons on in just a moment about his height, his
27:12
Speaker 1: shoe size, his weight, how that can be determined. But
27:15
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I just don't see an incentive. Everyone is
27:19
Speaker 1: just clamoring to link the family to the kidnap. Before
27:25
Speaker 1: we do that and he more pain upon the family.
27:29
Speaker 1: They have stated, according to sources, that they do not
27:32
Speaker 1: recognize this guy. Show me every steal you've got at
27:35
Speaker 1: every angle, Dr Bethany, what do you make of the
27:39
Speaker 1: family stating we don't know him?
27:43
Speaker 9: Well, probably they do not know him. What's interesting is
27:47
Speaker 9: that the guy that they pulled over last night, Carlos,
27:50
Speaker 9: the public did respond in the way that Savannah wanted
27:54
Speaker 9: them to respond. Savannah in the video you played earlier,
27:58
Speaker 9: pleads for the public's health. This guy's pulled over because
28:02
Speaker 9: the public helped. They tried to link this photograph to
28:07
Speaker 9: a delivery man who was in the neighborhood. So that
28:09
Speaker 9: gives me hope that there are people and homes in
28:13
Speaker 9: this neighborhood who are trying to solve this crime. Now
28:17
Speaker 9: this particular picture, I think it's interesting because when I
28:20
Speaker 9: look at the guy's eyelids, it looks like a younger person,
28:24
Speaker 9: you know, his his eyelids don't fold over the like
28:27
Speaker 9: you see with older people. His eyebrows look somewhat like
28:32
Speaker 9: tweezed or thin.
28:34
Speaker 2: To me.
28:35
Speaker 9: That's maybe why you think that this picture is effeminate.
28:37
Speaker 9: It could be because the ski mask is sort of
28:40
Speaker 9: over his forehead. But I would also wonder if this
28:43
Speaker 9: is somebody who engages in the type of grooming where
28:47
Speaker 9: they like to have, you know, their their eye their
28:50
Speaker 9: eyebrows waxed or thinned, which might give them an effeminate look.
28:57
Speaker 1: Let me see, Bethany. Okay, Bethany, thank you, because you
29:01
Speaker 1: just crystallized for me why I thought at the very
29:06
Speaker 1: beginning when I just saw the face, I stated, could
29:10
Speaker 1: this be a woman? Because the lashes and the brows,
29:15
Speaker 1: It's just exactly what you said. Let's look at it again.
29:20
Speaker 1: It's the thin nature of the eyebrows. If we could
29:23
Speaker 1: zoom there you go. Thank you, Control Room. But the
29:27
Speaker 1: reality is that may be because of the sche mask
29:30
Speaker 1: pulling the eyebrows and the eyes upward. But yes, the lashes,
29:35
Speaker 1: the eyebrows do give an effeminate appearance. But now control room.
29:40
Speaker 1: If you could give me the video of him walking forward.
29:43
Speaker 1: When he walks forward, it's totally a guy. It's totally
29:47
Speaker 1: a guy. Look at the Yeah, that's a man. That
29:53
Speaker 1: is a man. Plus and fitz Gibbons will explain how
29:57
Speaker 1: they can measure, and they think is between five eleven
30:01
Speaker 1: and six one or six feet tall, all right. He
30:04
Speaker 1: also looks bulked up like he's got on several layers
30:08
Speaker 1: of clothing under there. So I'm looking at this and
30:13
Speaker 1: look at that stuffed backpack. Once you say I'm doctor Bethank.
30:19
Speaker 1: There's nothing effeminate at all about the way he walks.
30:22
Speaker 9: Yes, but there are a lot of men out there
30:24
Speaker 9: who don't walk in an effeminate manner, but they like
30:27
Speaker 9: to groom themselves in an effeminate manner. So I would
30:29
Speaker 9: just cast a wider net and think about men who
30:32
Speaker 9: might you.
30:33
Speaker 3: Know, match that appearance.
30:34
Speaker 9: Now, this backpack is interesting to me, Nancy, because I've
30:36
Speaker 9: been fascinated from the get go by the fact that
30:41
Speaker 9: the blood trail stops on the doorstep, which tells me
30:45
Speaker 9: that whoever took her had some kind of a compression
30:50
Speaker 9: cloth something that they used to stem the bleeding, otherwise
30:55
Speaker 9: the blood droplets would continue out to the driveway or
30:58
Speaker 9: maybe there was a carway. So that has made me
31:01
Speaker 9: think about you know, who is attending to her medical needs?
31:05
Speaker 9: You know, she couldn't walk more than fifty feet. She
31:09
Speaker 9: has medication that she needs, which I have guessed from
31:12
Speaker 9: the beginning is blood blood pressure medication because she has
31:15
Speaker 9: a pacemaker. So who was attending to her medical needs
31:19
Speaker 9: in that house? And would that particular person know to
31:22
Speaker 9: bring some kind of a compression or a cloth or
31:24
Speaker 9: a bandage or something to stem the bleeding?
31:32
Speaker 1: Okay, my reason?
31:38
Speaker 2: Did you have any id?
31:41
Speaker 1: Do you know who nanny from our friends a CBS.
31:45
Speaker 1: This guy is a driver, He is a delivery person.
31:50
Speaker 1: He was detained. That it's not like Carlos Palazuela's and
31:55
Speaker 1: he was released. They held me, as somebody has been
31:58
Speaker 1: watching Law and Order. They held me against my will. Yes,
32:04
Speaker 1: and they didn't read me my rights, okay up until
32:09
Speaker 1: two hours later, so they did read the rights. My
32:12
Speaker 1: wrist is all effing swollen from the handcuffs. Let's see
32:15
Speaker 1: him on video. I want to see the swelling. He's
32:17
Speaker 1: talking about did you have any idea? No, Okay, hold on,
32:22
Speaker 1: here comes the hands. I think he's going to hold
32:23
Speaker 1: him up. I think it's going to happen. I think, oh,
32:27
Speaker 1: well to you, Matthew Lopez. His hands are working. He
32:33
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have any permanent injury. He can't show
32:36
Speaker 1: me any bruises, any redness, any swelling, any scratches, any anything.
32:42
Speaker 1: But he does know enough to whind Hello, Nancy Guthrie
32:47
Speaker 1: could be dead and he's whining he didn't get his
32:50
Speaker 1: rights for two hours. Please. Yeah.
32:53
Speaker 6: A lot of people think when they called my office
32:55
Speaker 6: that failure to read miranda rights are sort of a
32:58
Speaker 6: get out of jail free card, and they don't understand it.
33:00
Speaker 6: It's more complex than that, And you're absolutely right. There's
33:02
Speaker 6: got to be two elements. It's called custodial interrogation. Whether
33:05
Speaker 6: or not somebody is under arrest and they're interrogated him
33:08
Speaker 6: about questions relating to this incident. Now I can understand
33:11
Speaker 6: where he's coming from. If he had no involvement and
33:14
Speaker 6: he's getting pulled over or he was being followed and
33:16
Speaker 6: then he decides to pull over, is they have warrant,
33:19
Speaker 6: they execute the warrant, they houses search as cars. So
33:22
Speaker 6: you know, if I was money in my own business
33:25
Speaker 6: as it were, and the FBI came and approached me,
33:28
Speaker 6: and they were accusing me of possibly being connected or
33:30
Speaker 6: asking me questions about being connected with the murder. And
33:33
Speaker 6: in this case, Carlow said that he's never even heard
33:36
Speaker 6: of Savannah Guthrie. I would be taken aback. And so
33:41
Speaker 6: you know, he may be whining, and I'm sure he's
33:43
Speaker 6: not downplaying the severity of a murder, right, but in
33:47
Speaker 6: his world, he was caught off guard and he doesn't
33:49
Speaker 6: understand why he was pulled over. And this is also
33:52
Speaker 6: he's in front of the camera, so this is his
33:54
Speaker 6: opportunity to really really to project.
33:57
Speaker 1: Bringing out Okay, I know the words. They did everything right,
34:03
Speaker 1: they did nothing wrong. Okay, he did not need his
34:06
Speaker 1: miranda rights read to him because he wasn't under arrest.
34:09
Speaker 1: They ultimately did read his miranda rights to him needlessly.
34:15
Speaker 1: Matthew Lopez, this ain't the RITZ. This is a kidnapping,
34:20
Speaker 1: possibly a homicide investigation. So I'll circle back to the
34:27
Speaker 1: pampered federal visitor who is now whining that his wrists
34:33
Speaker 1: hurt but can't show me any injury. Hold that thought,
34:38
Speaker 1: Lopez because joining me right now, and he is on
34:41
Speaker 1: his way to a scene, so I want to go
34:42
Speaker 1: to him very quickly. Lee and Neubecker joining a cybersecurity
34:46
Speaker 1: and digital forensic expert now the CEO of Enigma Forensics. Lee,
34:53
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay, there's been a
34:55
Speaker 1: lot of speculation and I was listening to Cash Bettel
34:59
Speaker 1: weston I and he was very circumspect as he must
35:03
Speaker 1: be explaining how those images from Nancy Guthrie's report were obtained.
35:09
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you my lay person understanding of
35:12
Speaker 1: what happened. What happened is that Nancy did not have
35:18
Speaker 1: a subscription to Nest. She had a Nest security cam.
35:26
Speaker 1: But the FBI was able to go into Google Nest
35:32
Speaker 1: is a Google product, into their vast, vast network of
35:38
Speaker 1: stored items and mind that and somehow amazingly cast cellular
35:46
Speaker 1: analysis survey team found her home and her Nest and
35:54
Speaker 1: got the images. That's how that happened. Now, I know
36:00
Speaker 1: that you're on your way to a scene, so just
36:03
Speaker 1: tell me is that correct?
36:07
Speaker 7: Basically, Nancy, remember when director Comy put a block on
36:11
Speaker 7: his camera on his laptop. That's a clear indicator. We
36:15
Speaker 7: should all assume that anytime we're in front of a
36:18
Speaker 7: camera that those feeds are going somewhere. We may not
36:21
Speaker 7: get access to them. But to assume that our government
36:25
Speaker 7: doesn't get those feeds, no, that's questionable. I can't say
36:28
Speaker 7: with authority on that because that's all classified information. But
36:32
Speaker 7: it's something that.
36:34
Speaker 1: Is out there, right, Hey, Lee, don't move very quickly
36:37
Speaker 1: back to Lopez and to get the information from Google,
36:43
Speaker 1: the parent company of Nest and you can see very
36:46
Speaker 1: clearly on the video it says Nest right at the top.
36:49
Speaker 1: It's not a leap of fate to figure out where
36:51
Speaker 1: it came from. You can either get a warrant for
36:56
Speaker 1: Google for them to allow the search by the FBI.
36:59
Speaker 1: They can involuntarily allow the search. That can be a
37:04
Speaker 1: court order for the search. So there's many ways for
37:09
Speaker 1: the FBI to have gotten that information from Google. Do
37:13
Speaker 1: you agree or disagree?
37:15
Speaker 6: I agree with that, and unclear right now whether or
37:18
Speaker 6: not Google on its own dubulteous information or they were
37:21
Speaker 6: ordered by the courts and the FBI to d bulge information.
37:24
Speaker 6: But my thought would be more answers are coming in
37:27
Speaker 6: the days to come. If it took this amount of
37:29
Speaker 6: time to get the or the recording from this nest
37:33
Speaker 6: doorbell camera. My thought would be the FBI is going
37:37
Speaker 6: to start getting more and more information the same way
37:40
Speaker 6: from the neighborhood cameras, and once they get that information,
37:43
Speaker 6: then we're starting to the pieces are going to start
37:45
Speaker 6: falling together. We're going to see a car in the front,
37:48
Speaker 6: We're going to see other people around. So I think
37:50
Speaker 6: this is going to be the tip of the iceberg.
37:52
Speaker 6: And within the next week, because of the release of
37:55
Speaker 6: this evidence, we're going to see more.
37:57
Speaker 7: We're going to have a better idea as to what happened.
37:59
Speaker 7: Then now we don't know what's going on behind the
38:02
Speaker 7: scenes because there was a nine second phone call made
38:05
Speaker 7: to a family member of the Guthries.
38:08
Speaker 1: At this point, put yourself into the mind of the kidnapper.
38:13
Speaker 2: I've made a mistique and that I chose a medically
38:16
Speaker 2: fragile person and she died on me when I was
38:18
Speaker 2: getting her out.
38:18
Speaker 7: Of the house.
38:20
Speaker 1: Yes, there was a setback last night, but all is
38:23
Speaker 1: not lost. All is not lost. There's a huge misconception
38:28
Speaker 1: that bitcoin cannot be traced. Nothing could be further from
38:32
Speaker 1: the truth. Lee Neubecker is with us the CEO of
38:37
Speaker 1: Enigma Forensics, cybersecurity digital forensics expert. Okay, block chain analysis.
38:47
Speaker 1: There have been many, many cases created by the FBI,
38:52
Speaker 1: by DOJ, by the irs where bitcoin has been successfully
38:58
Speaker 1: traced and Billy is that b that's b as in brother.
39:02
Speaker 1: Billions of dollars and billions of dollars worth of bitcoin
39:08
Speaker 1: have been recovered. And one case I like to talk
39:13
Speaker 1: about is Jong He Jong. I believe it's z h
39:19
Speaker 1: o u n G was defrauding entities on the dark Web,
39:27
Speaker 1: specifically Silk Road, and he was transferring bitcoin from one
39:34
Speaker 1: wallet to the next. Think of it like this, I'm
39:37
Speaker 1: just a layperson. I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the expert.
39:39
Speaker 1: But I think of it as someone who creates a
39:43
Speaker 1: shell corporation like a LLC and they funnel money into
39:49
Speaker 1: it and it's a fake name. Okay, let's just pretend
39:51
Speaker 1: it's Lee Newbecker LLC, and then they transfer that into
39:56
Speaker 1: Matt Lopez LLC. And none of them mean any they're
40:00
Speaker 1: just names that they have filed with the Secretary of State.
40:03
Speaker 1: Then it goes to Bethany Marshall Psychoalyst, LLC and Brian
40:06
Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons LLC and Jessica Finn and Dave Matt and this
40:10
Speaker 1: and that, and finally to the end, you've gone through
40:13
Speaker 1: so many you've lost the trail or somebody that creates
40:18
Speaker 1: an email and then another fake email based on that
40:21
Speaker 1: fake email, and down and down and down and down.
40:24
Speaker 1: That's really how bitcoin is hidden. You just have to
40:29
Speaker 1: follow the block chain analysis. And it's called block chain
40:35
Speaker 1: because the transactions when you look at it, it looks
40:41
Speaker 1: like it's entered into a block on a like a
40:45
Speaker 1: Google dot a shared Google doc is what it looks like.
40:48
Speaker 1: And you the block is a chain that block to
40:52
Speaker 1: that block, to that block to that block. So you
40:55
Speaker 1: do a block chain analysis and you basically follow the money. Now,
41:01
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have a much better way to explain it,
41:05
Speaker 1: hit it.
41:06
Speaker 7: I think you did a great job. Kind of For
41:09
Speaker 7: those of you that research your ancestry or genealogy, it's
41:14
Speaker 7: very much like that. You know you're tracing the source
41:17
Speaker 7: parent and you can go back very far. But the
41:21
Speaker 7: way the blockchain works, you have an entity that has
41:24
Speaker 7: a wallet and is authoritative, they do a transaction. Well,
41:29
Speaker 7: that transaction then gets distributed downstream, much like you know,
41:34
Speaker 7: going back to the first couple that was born on
41:38
Speaker 7: earthed and so you have parents and you have to
41:41
Speaker 7: just keep tracing it. Now, the government has an advantage
41:44
Speaker 7: because those of you that think Tour is anonymous network,
41:48
Speaker 7: while sitting on the Tour network are many government servers
41:51
Speaker 7: that intercept and collect information along the way. So by
41:55
Speaker 7: identifying the wallet ID and doing tedious tracing, eventually you
42:01
Speaker 7: can go back to a source and you have an
42:03
Speaker 7: IP address, which is like a telephone number for computers,
42:08
Speaker 7: and taking the energy to follow it all the way
42:10
Speaker 7: back to the initial source, they can find things out.
42:15
Speaker 1: Now, hold on, you mentioned the Tour network. That is
42:18
Speaker 1: basically a free It's an open source system that allows
42:22
Speaker 1: anonymous communications and it routes Internet traffic through a global
42:28
Speaker 1: volunteer operated network. That's what it is. Is kind of
42:32
Speaker 1: like an open network like Onion routing. It's encrypted three times,
42:38
Speaker 1: sent through three random volunteer operated modes, and it goes
42:43
Speaker 1: on and on and on. Is designed for privacy. You
42:47
Speaker 1: mentioned the Tour network, correct, yes.
42:52
Speaker 7: And to think that some of those computers on that
42:55
Speaker 7: network aren't our own governments is you know, kind of foolish. So,
43:00
Speaker 7: you know, anyone that's in that chain can intercept information
43:05
Speaker 7: because the wallet eyed is transferred, the origin, the original
43:09
Speaker 7: IP address, and so on. So you know, it makes
43:11
Speaker 7: sense that our government would want to be part of
43:15
Speaker 7: the tour network and probably very much all over it
43:19
Speaker 7: so that they can intercept and stop crime, prevent terrorism,
43:23
Speaker 7: and trace, you know, counterfeiting my clothes and so on.
43:27
Speaker 1: You know, just think of the I R. S Neebecker,
43:32
Speaker 1: all right, when al Capone couldn't be caught for murder,
43:39
Speaker 1: the IRS got him bam done. Don't mess with them.
43:44
Speaker 1: You want to tell me if a thief can figure
43:47
Speaker 1: out how to do bitcoin and use it for criminal purposes,
43:51
Speaker 1: that the I R s can't figure out how to
43:53
Speaker 1: thwart that, Oh yes they can. So when people say
44:00
Speaker 1: lost forever, it's not. The trail is not lost forever.
44:04
Speaker 1: The problem is when it is transferred, if it is
44:07
Speaker 1: transferred to another country that has no or low bitcoin regulation,
44:13
Speaker 1: because say we go to that country and what are
44:17
Speaker 1: we going to subpoena if they haven't kept the record,
44:19
Speaker 1: see what I mean? But tell me the fly in
44:24
Speaker 1: the ointment is when they try to cash out the bitcoin.
44:29
Speaker 7: Explain well, oftimes people will go to a convenience store,
44:34
Speaker 7: circle case seven eleven, whatever whatever will allow for conversion
44:39
Speaker 7: of the currency. And when that happens, make no mistake,
44:42
Speaker 7: the cameras within there are recording that.
44:45
Speaker 1: So put him up. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, Nellie,
44:48
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you think they're going to go run
44:51
Speaker 1: over to the Krogers to get six million dollars worth
44:55
Speaker 1: of bitcoin at no, but you are right. There's actually
45:00
Speaker 1: a bitcoin ATMs out there. They're common in the States,
45:04
Speaker 1: not necessarily elsewhere where. What will they do with the
45:10
Speaker 1: money if and when they get it the bitcoin? What
45:13
Speaker 1: will they'll transfer it and transfer it and transfer it
45:16
Speaker 1: that wallet, that wallet, that wallet, that wallet, and then
45:19
Speaker 1: on to another country and then try to convert it.
45:23
Speaker 7: Very possibly. So oftentimes the people cashing out are not
45:27
Speaker 7: the people behind it, but someone connected to them. So
45:30
Speaker 7: it's the diligent process of finding communities and they'll find
45:35
Speaker 7: it eventually. If they don't spend the money, it's going
45:39
Speaker 7: to be difficult, but you know, people, people have needs
45:42
Speaker 7: for money, and I think it's just a matter of time.
45:46
Speaker 1: That's when they're going to get caught. I think is
45:49
Speaker 1: if they try to and I hope it doesn't take
45:51
Speaker 1: that long if they try to get to transfer the
45:55
Speaker 1: bitcoin to money, especially if they do it in the US. Agree, disagree.
46:01
Speaker 7: It's much more difficult to trace the activity once it
46:05
Speaker 7: leaves country and goes to a country that doesn't cooperate
46:09
Speaker 7: with SWIFT or or other anti money maring initiatives, that
46:16
Speaker 7: the tree goes. All right, I hope to get the
46:18
Speaker 7: associated and I'm done.
46:25
Speaker 1: CBS News Catch and Release. That's what happened last night.
46:31
Speaker 1: A guy was pulled over thinking he matched a description
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Speaker 1: of a p on the front porch of Nancy Guthrie's home.
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Speaker 1: It wasn't him, straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining us.
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Speaker 1: He is the director of Operations USP, a nationwide security
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Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigators around the world looking
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Speaker 1: for missing people. Let me ask you at this juncture,
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Speaker 1: what do we do now?
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I think what we saw with this catch and release Nancy,
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Speaker 2: and you know this relates to what we do now,
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Speaker 2: is that they most likely found that vehicle.
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Speaker 7: So I think what you know you probably had is
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Speaker 7: that they saw his vehicle.
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Speaker 2: He's a delivery driver in and out of that neighborhood,
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Speaker 2: in and out of that area. So I think in
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Speaker 2: the coming hours and days, we're going to see more
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Speaker 2: activity from law enforcement because they're narrowing down a list
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Speaker 2: of vehicles that were in and around that area, and
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Speaker 2: they're starting to actually find that people associated with those vehicles.
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Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace Brian has Gibbons, I think
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Speaker 1: a major piece of evidence is the clothing. Now, our
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Speaker 1: staff crime stories during the night looked up outfits, similar backpacks,
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Speaker 1: similar Vess jackets, specifically the ski mask all night long.
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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at what they found. I think
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Speaker 1: this may be very helpful. Take a look at the backpack.
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Speaker 1: Now interesting if you look, this is an Ozark trail
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Speaker 1: and all of these are found at Walmart. So if
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Speaker 1: you look at the reflection, the reflective strips, there you go.
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Speaker 1: The backpack to me, is easily identifiable. Okay, let's move
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Speaker 1: to the jacket. The jacket has a unique zip up
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Speaker 1: the front that shines in the dark. I'm not sure
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Speaker 1: if it's a full zip. I think that it is
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Speaker 1: as it is picture to the left, but I get
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Speaker 1: and it's got a hood. I guarantee you that the
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Speaker 1: feds are doing exactly what we're doing right now. But
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Speaker 1: most interesting to me is the ski mask because the
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Speaker 1: scheme mask. Let's see it close up. There you go,
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Speaker 1: that's a great shot. On the right the sche masks.
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Speaker 1: See the vertical ridges in it. It's gray in color.
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Speaker 1: It's a ball and clava, that's what it is. And
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Speaker 1: you've got the stitching around the eyes. And remember you've
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Speaker 1: got to take into account that it's nighttime and you've
49:29
Speaker 1: got a light shining on the perp, So how can
49:34
Speaker 1: that be traced? By the way he's got in his
49:36
Speaker 1: mouth what we believe to be a bite light. It's
49:40
Speaker 1: often used by aviators that need their hands and a
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Speaker 1: cockpit is very common. There are multiple types of them.
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Speaker 1: That's the bite that you see with the four orange
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Speaker 1: dots on either side. Brian has gibbons. How can this
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Speaker 1: be done? How can these items be traced?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've seen other web sleuthes Nancy in the
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Speaker 2: you know, internet community, have also identified the type of
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Speaker 2: ants he's wearing, the shoes, all of these items. And
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Speaker 2: this is why the FBI has released this video is
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Speaker 2: there may be a person connected to this individual that
50:21
Speaker 2: recognizes these items that they've seen, you know, an associate
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Speaker 2: or someone they know that's had these items in their
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Speaker 2: possession that wears these clothes.
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Speaker 7: So that's why this is so valuable in generating leads.
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Speaker 1: Straight back to Jessica Fan Jessica, what if anything is
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Speaker 1: happening at this hour?
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Speaker 2: You know?
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Speaker 5: One of the things that I don't think that we've
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Speaker 5: really got to touch on is specifically the details of
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Speaker 5: what the FBI was doing on the ground in and
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Speaker 5: around Annie Guthrie's home. From what I'm seeing, there was
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Speaker 5: a lot of door knocking from the FBI agents, and
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Speaker 5: these door knocks included the FBI agents of course asking
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Speaker 5: have you seen anything?
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Speaker 3: Have you heard anything? That kind of general aquery.
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Speaker 5: But the other interesting thing they're asking for is they're
51:04
Speaker 5: asking for everybody's surveillance cameras.
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Speaker 3: In and around Annie Guthrie's home. And now Annie and
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Speaker 3: Nancy are.
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Speaker 5: Ten minutes away from each other, So why they're having
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Speaker 5: this team of about ten FBI agents going door to
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Speaker 5: door in and around Annie Guthrie's home asking everybody for
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Speaker 5: their surveillance footage is really really interesting and it brings
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Speaker 5: up a lot of questions as to what they're trying
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Speaker 5: to narrow in on, and it might go back to
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Speaker 5: what we're talking about with Fitz Gibbons, saying that maybe
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Speaker 5: there's zeroing in on the actual vehicle that the perpetrator
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Speaker 5: was driving.
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Speaker 1: Brian As Gibbons, I know you heard what Jessica Finn
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Speaker 1: just said, and she's right. Last night, as the arrest or,
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Speaker 1: excuse me, the detainment the delivery driver was occurring. The
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Speaker 1: whole team was back out at Annie Guthrie's home and
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Speaker 1: they were very very meticulously going through desert brush the
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Speaker 1: edge of people's yards, really looking in shed speaking to people,
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Speaker 1: showing them pictures. But also I want to ask you
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Speaker 1: about that. The family again states they do not recognize
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Speaker 1: the person on Nancy Guthrie's porch. But the dichotomy, fitz Gibbons,
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Speaker 1: I'd like you to address that. This guy bumbling around
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Speaker 1: like WHOA what there's a camera. I think I'll put
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Speaker 1: leaves on it. Okay, there's the seemingly idiocy of what
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Speaker 1: he's doing compared to the almost eloquent wording of the
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Speaker 1: ransom note, clearly written by someone with a great command
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Speaker 1: of the English language. And we're many people are mocking
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Speaker 1: this guy, but he has managed to elude authorities day eleven.
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Speaker 1: So the dichotomy is stunning, which leads me to think Brian,
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Speaker 1: that there are at least two people involved.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, we assume a certain level of
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Speaker 2: sophistication based on the reported eloquence of the ransom demand,
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Speaker 2: and that indicates, you know, we can't translate that in
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Speaker 2: down to the foot soldier who was actually walking up
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Speaker 2: to missus Guthrie's threshold, right, So that sophistication could be
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Speaker 2: present for the person doing this. And by the way,
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Speaker 2: I'll say again, the ransom note sent to TMZ and
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Speaker 2: this action.
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Speaker 7: May be completely separate.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so we have to keep that in mind.
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Speaker 2: But the sophistication whoa, whoa, whoa.
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Speaker 1: Whoa, back it up? Would you repeat that very slowly?
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Speaker 1: So we have to you know, zoom out.
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Speaker 2: And keep in mind that the ransom demand sent to
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Speaker 2: TMZ in the local Tucson news stations may be an
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Speaker 2: opera tunis trying to cash in on this terrible event,
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Speaker 2: and it may be disconnected from this individual that actually
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Speaker 2: took Nancy from the home.
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Speaker 1: No, we have to follow that through to where it ends.
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Speaker 1: You can't just throw it out there and accept us
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Speaker 1: to swallow it, hook line and sink her. So you're saying,
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Speaker 1: let's just pretend for the moment that the ransom note
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Speaker 1: is not connected to the porch guy. So then why
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Speaker 1: did the porch guy take Nancy Guthrie. He didn't kill
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Speaker 1: her on the scene. Like a typical burglar or robber
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Speaker 1: or rapist, they come in, they take what they want,
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Speaker 1: they may rape someone, and then they kill them and
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Speaker 1: leave them and run like hell because they don't want
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Speaker 1: to get caught. So she is kidnapped. She was kidnapped,
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Speaker 1: no question. So you're saying they kidnapped her for nothing,
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Speaker 1: so what to keep her in their basemite saying that.
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Speaker 2: In either event, right, what I'm saying, the position I'm
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Speaker 2: taking is the porch guy is not the one who's
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Speaker 2: responsible for writing the ransom demand. He's either controlled by
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Speaker 2: somebody and he's a foot soldier executing this operation, or
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Speaker 2: it's disconnected. But in either event, this is it's very
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Speaker 2: unlikely that this person who's pulling up weeds to throw
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Speaker 2: them over a ring camera is the one who orchestrated
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Speaker 2: ransom demands being sent to TMZ in local news affiliates
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Speaker 2: in Tucson.
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Speaker 1: Understood, but you're not having your cake and aiding it too.
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Speaker 1: You can't have it sitting on the plate and in
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Speaker 1: your stomach. No, So you said they're disconnected, and then
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Speaker 1: you said that the porch guy's working at the behest
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Speaker 1: of the author of the ransom note. That means they
55:51
Speaker 1: are connected. If they're working in tandem, then they're connected.
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Speaker 1: I could see that, But I do not say that
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Speaker 1: the porch guy just took her randomly for no reason.
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Speaker 1: It had to be for ransom. So you're saying the
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Speaker 1: porch guy took her for ransom, but that the note
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Speaker 1: to TMZ could be a fake. Well, then if the
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Speaker 1: porch guy took her for ransom, then where's the ransom demand? See,
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Speaker 1: you know, you got to follow this thing through to
56:22
Speaker 1: its logical conclusion.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, in as I was saying, in either way, it's
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Speaker 2: very unlikely that the porch guy himself had anything to
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Speaker 2: do with orchestrating that ransom demand. That this is just
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Speaker 2: merely a foot soldier executing this operation.
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Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Miss
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Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please call the FBI toll free eight hundred
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Speaker 1: two two five five three two four, or if you
56:49
Speaker 1: want to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two
56:54
Speaker 1: seven four six y three we remember American Hero Patrol
56:59
Speaker 1: Officer Jonah Hernandez of Las Crucius Police Department, killed in
57:04
Speaker 1: the line of duty just thirty five years old, leaving
57:07
Speaker 1: behind a wife turned widow and two boys without a father.
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Speaker 1: American Hero Patrol Officer Jonah Fernandez Nancy Gray signing off
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Speaker 1: goodbye friend.