Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / Beyond Words - Episode Highlights (May 2023)

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Beyond Words - Episode Highlights (May 2023) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guided by purpose to build trust in society and solve important problems, the Price Waterhouse community in New York know they have an obligation to the communities in which they live and work.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: At a time in which establishing trust is more important than ever, they work to not only support communities directly, but to empower their people to promote initiatives that align with their personal values.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, literacy and financial literacy is critical to empowering all communities.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: As an organization, one of their capability areas is around upskilling the workforce to be prepared to handle organizational transformations and market trends impacting the future of work.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to uh first start by talking about how PWC has carved an important role in helping others in the community and where that stemmed from, and how do you choose who you help?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it must be quite a quite a list because there's so much need in the community in the US.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say not just in the US, but globally, we as a firm um believe in the importance of the community and the world in which we um operate.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's really important to us.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: One of our um missions as a firm is to build trust in society and to contribute.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so as you said, this is uh very near and dear to our heart, the World Literacy Foundation and task force, but it um largely because it is very consistent with our values as a firm globally.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes a lot of sense.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what they're driving and trying to achieve is to put the crisis of literacy with up to 750 million people globally not being able to read and write, which is still mind-blowing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're trying to put that on the global map, and I think it's it's certainly, I mean, they exist in seven countries right now, of which obviously the US is a major party to.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with how much financial literacy, which I imagine is a big focus for PWC, how is that being impacted?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And how are how do you how do you get to the people that need it?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I would say uh literacy as a whole, whether it be um sort of traditional literacy in the reading, writing context, or financial literacy, all of them are dire needs in society.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there is no shortage of need.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we as a firm do focus a lot on financial literacy and making sure that we are bringing the things that PwC is known for: our talent, our expertise, our staff to solving that problem.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we do contribute a lot in our societies in which we operate to support financial literacy.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: As you mentioned, whether it's being in schools with children at an early age, um, whether it's donating to organizations that do that good work in the communities in which we live and work.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so financial literacy tends to be where we as a firm focus.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: But for Mona and I, when we learned about the World Literacy Foundation, this was sort of a complementary um organization.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um it we can, as I joke, uh walk and chew gum at the same time.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: So we feel like the World Literacy Tax Task Force is um very deserving of our attention and very deserving of our time and energy.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: Mona, would you agree?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: Anything you'd add?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would definitely agree.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think even, you know, uh after the pandemic, uh that I think for everyone sort of shown a spotlight on all the inequities that sort of exist in our, you know, in our country, uh more specifically.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I think a lot of our initiatives at PwC got started.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where uh PWC decided to um dedicate, you know, have our teams and our employees dedicate time to help battle racial inequity, to battle for against social injustice.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where you know is the inception of a lot of our programs around like skills for society, CEO action um for racial equity.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, to Moose's point, uh the World Literacy Task Force and the mission there is a natural fit to what PwC tries to help solve for in society.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it made sense for us to contribute um our capabilities there as well.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So logistically and just in in practical terms, can you give me some indication of like how that actually works?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is it that you're bringing to the World Literacy Task Force that you feel is contributing and assisting what is a very big movement and hopefully getting good traction, which we're certainly seeing.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: But um I'd be interested to see how you think and your point about after the pandemic, it sort of lifted the lid on what was already pretty pretty traumatic time for a lot of people, but those basic skills just get put back by a number of years, particularly for young ones in in communities that are struggling.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I would say as we've engaged with the World Literacy Task Force, it's been everything that we would normally bring to, I would say, a traditional consulting engagement in some ways, at the risk of sounding like work.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: It really does uh sort of leverage a lot of the things that Mona, myself, and our teams do day to day.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where bringing the power of business to these social problems, I think, is really effective.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: As an example, thinking through the strategy of what should the task force focus on?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, should it be, you know, focused on n number of cities in the United States in the next n number of years, right?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: How do we think about what should the mission be?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: How do we frame up that?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Thinking about the strategy, not biting off more than we can chew, but being aggressive in our goals so that we do have a very lofty uh ideal and we want to meet those targets.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: So setting the strategy, that's part of what we've been working with our other task force members.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: And then sort of more in the weeds, I would say thinking about how do we execute.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_04: So everything from strategy to execution, as we say at PwC, um, you know, building a plan, creating sort of rigor around execution, all of that project management that we would normally do, we're bringing that to the task force as well, such that we're thinking about the mission and the vision and the objectives along with our task force members, but then all the way down to the weeds and how do we execute this to make sure that we're holding ourselves accountable and delivering something in a reasonable time frame.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's really bringing business skills.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as you say, it's very important because I think often what happens, particularly with you know, in philanthropy or in pro bono situations, is that if you don't have that effective structure and you don't do it properly, it's very hard to get the traction.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So your role is very important in ensuring that those structures are in place, particularly when it, you know, in September when they went to the, we went to the UN and you know, tried to basically ensure that there was a conversation around literacy, um, ensuring that there was effective um structures in place is critical.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And is that something that so so, in terms of where you see the future of the task force, do you think that we have a carving that and your continued role, what do you see the biggest challenges are?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: I would say um, I know you use the word ensuring the organizational structure.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think of us as um advising and sort of being part of the solution.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: So it's uh we're not able to enforce and we can't um make anyone do it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone's there of their own volition.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of what we're there to do is to advise on here's an effective way to do this.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, usually our task force colleagues and members are very open to those ideas, but it does mean that everyone has to collaborate and come together.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um so that continued collaboration, I don't see it being a challenge.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: It never has been, but that will be necessary to be successful.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good point.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think even, you know, the one of the sort of cornerstones of the way that we've started to build this out is, you know, we're we're starting in a couple of cities in a beginning, and we're gonna learn things along the way.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe our first couple of cities aren't gonna necessarily be perfect.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, when we get into the third, fourth, and fifth cities in the US, we will have like refined, you know, learn some of the lessons from the first couple of cities.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so we've been calling them kind of a pilot or a test and not to sort of take away any of the efforts from those pilot cities, but you know, we're we're doing them in a way where we can then leverage some of the lessons learned.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: So when we get to some of the bigger cities, we know what to do and what not to do.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So eradicating illiteracy in 50 cities in the US is the big mission of the task force.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a lofty one, but but how, and you pointed out correctly, Mona, that the idea of having pilots where you learn from that in order to get some insight into what the challenges are, just on the ground, what what sort of um when you talk about you know going into sort of uh piece by piece, one at a time, what does that actually look like?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we're um we're learning that now and we're relying on you know our task force colleagues to help lead the way.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think even what they're finding is you know, we are using the resources of some of our task force colleagues that are actually deploying their own tools and their own kind of capabilities in these schools.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: They're going out there, they're you know, networking in the community, they're building relationships in these schools, they're deploying uh technology, they're uh finding ways to make learning and reading fun.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And we're trying to then spread that story across the community.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then, you know, leveraging like PwC's capabilities, our own talent in some of these communities that can help service volunteers or where they need extra arms and legs.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Some of our other task force colleagues are contributing the same way.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then hopefully we can sort of repeat that as we go into some of the next cities.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And while we have a lot of uh task force members that are ready to commit resources in some of their hometowns too.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it should be really exciting to see what's to come.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think also your point of there's a nice personal aspect, and I note that the mission of PWC is to try and get people involved in things like passion projects, things that that resonate for each person.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for both of you in communities that either you've grown up in or that you you're aware of, you know, is this something that you see day to day, this this ongoing issue of literacy, either financial or literature literacy?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's your observation?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: I I know when we first joined the task force, Joseph had pointed us, um, had asked this a similar question, and I pointed out that I um was born in Bangladesh and grew up in Asia.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I grew up in Thailand, in India, um, having only come to sort of the West, if you will, as an adult.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so for me, this has been close to me ever since day one.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, there are pockets of um my home country that really still struggle with um literacy, basic literacy, in addition to financial literacy, but basic literacy amongst children, adults.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so to me, it's always been a bit of a passion project.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: Even as a child, I did volunteering and things like that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: But now living in New York City in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, I don't think we as a country in the United States have solved the problem, clearly.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: So it doesn't matter.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the things that we all learn as we get older, we are more similar than we are different.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so even living here in New York City, I see this is still a problem today.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm happy to do whatever.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's a small piece, uh, it's a small contribution, but whatever we're doing um hopefully will contribute in some meaningful way in the near term and then obviously over time in a more meaningful way.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's really interesting, actually, Missy, to to hear where you've come from.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very, it's a it's a long journey.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, Bangladesh certainly has, you know, major, major issues around poverty and illiteracy, um, India, obviously.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, is it um is it something that were you a bit stunned at how prevalent it was in the US as well?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because you sort of think of such a Western advanced country not having the same issues, but the the stats are really quite staggering, aren't they?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: The stats are staggering.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: I would say in some ways, Bangladesh has made leaps and bounds further than the United States.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Perhaps we focus more energies on it, more resources.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, we've uh done a lot in Bangladesh.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I hope that the US is doing similar things in the next decades to come.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting, isn't it, to reflect on that, how we, you know, focus in one way um in one direction and overseeing, and there's an oversight in the other direction.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a very good point, actually.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you take with you, in a sense, uh, coming back to the original notion of the personal journey and how reflecting on that has been a useful resource for you moving forward in your role helping the World Literacy Task Force.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what about for you, Mona?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And how does it resonate for you?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I think similarly growing up, you know, I loved reading as a kid and you know, I found so much joy and like, you know, it just like sparks a different side of your brain to have like the ability to read and like make up and see and visualize stories in your head.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then as a young adult, I um, you know, I'm from India and I also learned to read and write Hindi as a teenager.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember, I mean, it was, you know, learning to read a different language, but then going back to India, I would be able to, you know, suddenly read things that I never had the ability to before.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it it gives you so much more freedom and confidence and it like widens your lens on the world.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it was in a way that I didn't see as a child when you sort of learn to read.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think it's yeah, and I think like, you know, to be able to give that to somebody and it's just like table, like it should be table stakes, and we all should just know how to read.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw a stat even today that's like one in three children in the United States are at risk of being illiterate, and that's just like it's a it's a crazy number, and it it shouldn't be like this should be a very basic thing that we can solve for.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good point.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and also what you were saying is so are you saying that you learnt to read and write as a teenager, not as a young child?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you were referring to?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um I I learned to read and write Hindi, which is I guess my my family's native language as a teenager.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so no, that I found that interesting.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, so then, you know, what you're saying is though that you learned to write English, read and write English as a teenager?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, sorry.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: I learned to read and write English growing up, you know, in in elementary school.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but learning how to read and write Hindi, which is like you know, what my parents and I spoke at home, and what my family in India speaks, I could speak it, but I never could read it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I would go back to India, it's like you don't know what is going on, you don't know what people think, you don't know what's written in the newspapers.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: But then as a teenager, actually learning to read it, it gives and then you know, actually and practicing it, it gives you like a new lens on the world.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it gives you so much more confidence.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you're in another country, you're able to have that, you know, it's like an advantage.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a huge advantage and such a disadvantage when you don't have it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: It is, and one of the things as a task force that we've talked about in the spirit of focusing our efforts and not trying to do everything for everyone, is to focus on the teen population in the United States.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_04: So we've talked about starting with 10 cities, we've also talked about prioritizing that sort of 12 to 16, 12 to 18 year old age range, because there are efforts underway for children usually.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: But if you've missed that chance to learn to read and write and you know developed those skills as a child, there aren't that many safety nets at the teen age.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: So um, as a task force, one of the things we have talked about is talk prioritizing the 12 to 18 year olds and the literacy needs of that population as a subset of all the literacy needs.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's very important to highlight.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, because yes, I know that's very much a focus.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to imagine that as a teenager, but what you're saying is if you've missed that first entry point, um, the challenge is making sure that you get them before they become fully fledged adults.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a big mission for the task force.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And also it's quite a challenging time to access teenagers.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you, you know, what have you seen?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are some of the best avenues to get to teenagers?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is it through the school system primarily?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: So we absolutely have some of our task force partners have great relationships, as Mona was saying earlier, with the school systems, and that's absolutely a primary way.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, as I put on my um, I guess my business lens, we often talk in the digital banking space about meeting customers where they want to be met and having mobile apps and digital tools that, you know, um uh are the next generation uh technology for clients and customers.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: I would say the same thing should apply here, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: If teenagers are more attracted to and have access to technology, whether it's a smartphone, whether it's at public libraries, that's where we should be.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: That's where we should be offering literacy tools so that we are serving the community that we're looking to serve.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't make any sense if we have books and we're sitting there and nobody comes to read.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, at just 25 years old, Maddie Frontwiz stood on the floor of the United Nations 77th General Assembly to advocate for kids who missed the same benchmark as her.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the third grade benchmark is indicative of future success a child will have in school.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was a benchmark that I missed, she says.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Living in poverty during her second grade year, Maddie's family struggled with access to basic necessities of life, including books.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: She never dreamed that someone like her could one day attend college, much less write a book.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, Maddie, welcome to the Beyond Words podcast.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thrilled to have you here from the US.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: I know, trying to figure out the timing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, so it's Tuesday over there.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's Monday here, but that was it's uh it's an honor to be here.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for having me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure, absolute pleasure.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, researching, I've I've read your story and it's really interesting.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about growing up and how you know you talk about your father struggling with literacy.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's more common than it should be.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's quite prevalent.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so we grew up in North Carolina, which is on the east coast of the United States.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I lived there for about seven years of my life until my father lost his job.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then we were completely uprooted.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a very idyllic childhood.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: We grew up almost 15 minutes from the beach by walking.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: You could smell the salt air when you go out, and our community was tight-knit.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I loved my childhood.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: We had a huge backyard, huge backyard.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember playing and running and jumping on the trampoline and just the excitement and joy that you're supposed to have in a childhood.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we were completely uprooted and we moved to a foreign land, which at that time was called Texas, and it still is called Texas, but it was so foreign to me to move across the country.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, America's very, very big.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so we traveled, we packed everything up in our little car, um, and we moved.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we we thought we were going to what was our promised land.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: But after some time here, my father lost his job again, and we ended up in Section 8 housing, um, which is poverty here in the United States.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to a Title I elementary school.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: So all of this is about my second and third grade year.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the pivotal time for literacy, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is that benchmark that we're trying to hit to make sure you're meeting that mark.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense as during all of this trauma as a child, I missed my third grade literacy benchmark.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but we didn't have access to the basic necessities of life.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we struggled with those things, um, and especially books.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm very thankful that my father was a hard worker.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's a servant leader.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember vividly, we he'd get up in the morning, he'd make my lunch, he'd walk me across the street to my school, and he'd go out and he'd look for a job.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he did a variety of different things like selling phone books when that was a thing, um, painting houses, all of these different things to put food on the table.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so even at a young age, serving leadership and serving the community and working with the most marginalized communities, minority backgrounds as well, um was very much so a part of my upbringing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, come to find out later on in the future, you know, my father is telling me about how he grew up and about when he came into this country.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he came into the country with a Spanish English dictionary and he learned English in front of his classmates in college, and they were so horribly cruel to him because he was different, because he sounded different, he had an accent, he was not he was Spanish, is that right?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he never he was he was Spanish, yes, yes, that's right.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I he never wanted us to have that experience, and so he sheltered us.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I missed out on a part of that heritage because we were so sheltered from that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted us to have somewhat of a normal childhood life circumstances, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: We really didn't have a normal childhood.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's really kind of the upbringing and the shaping of my story at a young age.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's interesting about what you're well, first of all, there's a there's the new immigrant story which you reflect, which is your dad coming to a new country, which is meant to be progressive and embracing, but often is quite cruel and challenging for new immigrants, as you've just outlined.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then he carves this journey where he tries to raise his family, and then it's almost like he falls down the ladder, literally, of life as he loses his job, which is a very common experience and a very traumatic experience for a family.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And as you say, he does everything in his power to try and rebuild that.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the consequences for children, which is very common, is that they don't get access to education, which is what happened to you.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think that's where your passion is very evident, but also it probably gives you a very real and visceral, you know, authentic experience that that gives kredos or credibility to your vision.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: So hence you get involved in better education.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about what happened next.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because from what I understand, opportunities then started to emerge.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us how you actually then went from notebooks, limited education, struggling to now about to do your PhD, as I understand.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, we're very blessed.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: We always feel that there's been a sovereign hand over our life and over our family.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so my dad got a job and he is the epitome the epitome of the American dream, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he is, I mean, his grandparents were immigrants and he came into this country.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I just he's an inspiration.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's who I want to be when I grow up because he's been such a hard worker.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: So he placed, and now he's vice president of a hospital corporation.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, that is the epitome of the American dream.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I can also say I'm I'm my ancestor's dream because I am that kid.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we experienced poverty and we had struggles and we struggled as a family.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: I struggled in school.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was viciously bullied.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, number one, because I loved learning, but number two, I was this awkward kid who just came out of poverty.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I wore track suits that made the swooshing sound, and I had glasses that were cork bottle glasses.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so naturally in school, it makes sense to a lot of people when I tell them that side that yes, of course, I was bullied.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so from an early age, I heard these messages um from my own experience that you're not enough.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: For a really long time, I believed that message.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I believed that I was not enough.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I strove to prove myself.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: In two ways, it was negative, but in a really positive light, it made me strive for a better education.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and through that journey of just self-discovery and and struggle, I realized I am enough.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I should be and I was made to be.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and what my purpose and my calling, and I and I was made for so much more.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I look back on my time there, I remember those kids that I was in that Title I school with.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that shapes the vision for the future because I remember those kids, I remember their faces, I remember their names, I remember the hopelessness that they experienced.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you and I both know that books open up a world of possibility for kids to imagine something that's better for themselves.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what you said to me.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: When my third grade librarian placed that book in my hand.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, my third grade librarian placed the lightning thief by Rick Riarton into my hands.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I can trace the trajectory of that book from that third grade library all the way to the United Nations 77th General Assembly.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what changes lives.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yes, I'm on track to begin my PhD in international public policy and economics because of literacy and because of the intervention of my community members.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: What an incredible story and such an exemplification of how books do change our lives and how getting access.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: What was the book, The Lightning?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just for our listeners, the book It was The Lightning Thief by Rick Riordan.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if anybody knows Rick Riordan, because I know you have a large following, I it's my dream.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: I wake up in the night sweats thinking about the opportunity to meet him.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they're coming out with this new TV show, The Percy Jack, because they butchered the movies the first time they did it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: So now I think there'll be redemption for that because he's sitting on it and you know they they're doing that new movie.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Getting to see that I hope so.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the whole thing they'll actually tell the actual story from the childhood because it's such a good book.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think even adults enjoy it uh when they read it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, highly it's just throwing that out there, putting that out there, trying to manifest that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: We'll manifest for you, don't you worry, Maddie.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: If there's anyone out there who knows how we can tap that little.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I love also your passion for for storytelling, but but one thing I'd like to just tap also is I want to understand how prevalent is this illiteracy crisis in the communities where you grew up and where you're going to speak.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: You speak, you've spoken to so many schools and lots of communities.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really an epidemic, isn't it?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's quite is it's a crisis.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think people understand just how serious it is.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us a little snapshot or an insight into what you've been saying on the ground in effect?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think a great story for this, it is an epidemic.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's an epidemic of illiteracy that was exacerbated by the pandemic.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you don't really see that unless you put your boots on the ground in the community.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: But on a regular basis, when I meet with community members and I'm speaking with organizations and just regular everyday people, I tell them, I guarantee you there is one person, at least one, because the statistics hold true, that is in your life that is reading at or below a third grade level.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they're always astounded.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it's funny to hear from them.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, I talked to people and I met with people, and that's why they don't want to watch the closed captioning on the Netflix shows that we watch.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really fascinating to hear.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the work of my nonprofit puts books and resources into schools.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I am part of that resources while I go and I run a curriculum with these kids for character education.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I was at a Title I school here in my community.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was, it was really what started this whole World Literacy Foundation journey, World Literacy Summit, going to the UN, all of the different things was a very pivotal moment because I'm in this class and I'm teaching to the third graders.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the teacher comes up to me and she says, Hey, Maddie, in a very hushed tone, she said, Maddie, can you can you dumb down your presentation for this next group that's about to come in?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I I promise I've done the research, I I've done it, I know like this is tailored specifically to your kids.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I was curious.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, um, why?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: She said, our third graders are reading at or below a kindergarten level.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when you look around and you realize and you go, Oh, we have a literacy problem and it's in my backyard.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I saw it to make a difference from that point forward.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that story is really quite revelatory in the sense that we're talking the US.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking that I think is what people don't realize.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when people think of a literacy, they often think of it as being in marginalized, random, often third world communities.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a big issue, and there's no question that it is a big issue.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what you're shining the light on is that in local, what is supposed to be a very progressive educational system, people falling through the cracks.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that particular story exemplifies that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so out of interest, did how did you cross that bridge when that next group came into the room?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have to dumb it down?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you, and that is a strange expression, obviously, as you you and I would agree, that the teacher used, but because it has its own connotation.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But but did you have to adapt your, you know, your um your presentation, or and were you stunned to see?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So these kids would have been how old um if they were second grade, were they?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 10 to 11 years old.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and they were reading like kindergarten, like and they're reading at kindergarten, so about five to six years old.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: So six years younger than them, which is mind-boggling, I think.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Mind-boggling.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um yes, absolutely.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm flexible and I, you know, adapt, of course, you know, to what the kids need.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think in that in that particular scenario, you have to look at and say, oh my gosh, how can I serve them where they are?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: How can I meet them where they are?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so of course I adapted my program and I took what I have for kindergartners and designed that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And as I was, you kind of be you have to be flexible when you're in the room and be flexible with your audience as well.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you see, okay, they're picking up on this, I can push a little bit further here, um, or I can talk about a little bit more about this at a higher level.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're not getting it.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: So let me pull it back.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, but from that point on, I literally left the building and was like texting my community members, going, How can we fix this problem?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not somebody who's gonna sit back on my home quarters when I see something that's a problem and not do something for it.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I actually connected with the U.S.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: youth ambassador because we had partnered together on an initiative uh with the United Nations.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Hey, you should check into the World Literacy Foundation.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're doing some really, really good work.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just see if that's something you'd be interested in, because it might be a good partnership for you and your nonprofit.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So they were actually running, it's just the sovereign hand again.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: They were running an ambassador program at that point in time, and they were taking those applications.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it said, we have thousands of applicants every year.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: We only take about 300.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, It ain't gonna be me, but I'm still gonna fill out that application because I'm gonna take every opportunity because there are doors that you're meant to walk through that no man can open, and there are doors that are shut that no man can shut, but you have to choose to take that opportunity, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I took that opportunity and I am blessed to say I was one of 300 applicants that were chosen.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been an ambassador for the World Literacy Foundation now, going on to two years, and I will serve as a mentor ambassador this year as well.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're very lucky to have you.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that speaking to my team, they're very, they're very impressed with you and what you're doing.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see as the greatest challenge moving forward for young people in particular?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you talk about having to tackle this problem, walking out of that room, ringing your community members, going to the UN assembly, being part of the World Literacy Foundation, all of those are really great actionables, and you're definitely stepping up to the plate.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: What is the biggest challenge and how, and I know there are many, um, because when I do these interviews, I'm I'm obviously seeing this spectrum of challenges.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think, do you think it's a grassroots level uh issue we need to tackle?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And or do you think going into schools doing what you're doing is one of the main things?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what is the greatest challenge for us all trying to deal with this issue?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're so right.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: You are so right.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's just so many issues.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was at a panel this weekend at the University of Arkansas speaking with some college students, and there was a particular student, Sebastian, who was asking during the QA session.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: He raised his hand very tentatively, but he said, Okay, so you're very driven, you're very ambitious.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: What do you do if we burn out?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something that you really have to think about because I think many, many young people who are my age burn out because they see the things that they want to make a difference on and they feel like they can't do it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: For me, when I stood on the floor at the United Nations and I looked around, I realized two things.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was one of the only women in the room, and I was the youngest person in the room by a good marginal about 20 to 30 years.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, Maddie, standing on the floor of the United Nations, what an extraordinary experience.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Extraordinary, humbling, probably one of the greatest moments of my life so far.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you stand there in that room, and it's an iconic room, it's important room.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's where the International Declaration of Human Rights was signed, and you feel the weight of history sit upon your shoulders.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I realized two things very quickly that I was one of the only women in the room, and I was the youngest person in the room by a good 20 to 30 years.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so that in that moment, I don't think I felt more alone.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was there, you know, with family and with friends and with community, but but you realize very quickly I'm one of the only people that's doing this at my age.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so, Sebastian, who is at the University of Arkansas, I think he's feeling the same thing.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is that well, what do you do when you realize you're grinding your nose to the millstone, trying to make a difference, and you feel alone.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so, my encouragement for him is the same for all the listeners.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's you find a community of like-minded individuals who, when you get burned up, will push you forward.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's about owning your advocacy, owning your agency, and at the same time surrounding yourself with like-minded people who are going to encourage you and spur you on to good works because this is hard work.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not everybody believes that we have a literacy issue.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: You look at the stats and you look at the numbers, and they still turn a blind eye to it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's about not only doing the work alone, but bringing people with you because the more that we bring, you know, you talked about community organizing, it starts small.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: You want to make a difference, you start in your neighborhood and then you spread out.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's truly how we make a difference in literacy and education, and that's how we change the world.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely agree with you, and very inspiring too to see such a young, articulate woman, you know, being prepared to stand in that environment, which is quite daunting and overwhelming, but because you have this strong core belief in what you're doing.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel, do you feel that you were heard at all in that context?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: I am yes and no.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's been places where, you know, I don't want to be like as a woman, but as a woman, there have been times in my life where I have not had a seat at the table where the decisions are being made.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I made a decision a few years back, even as a young 20-something, that yes, I'm gonna make room for myself at the table.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to credential myself in such a way that I will be heard.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: So even if I have to put DR in front of my name or PhD at the very end of my name, I want to be heard because I believe I have something important to say.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: But also, number two, I remember the women who came before me, my mentors who shepherded me, who maved away when there was no way, they paved that way for me.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I will also remember the women that came after me.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if there's not a seat at the table, I'm gonna pull one up and make room for other women because it's important that we have a spot there.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, in regards to your question about there, yes, I am lucky to be shepherded and mentored by a man named Joseph Thalley, who is the secretary general of our task force.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he has championed me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, he has looked after me, he's made sure that my voice is heard.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: He said, But you know, Maddie's got something to bring to the table.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a wonderful thing to have someone who's already made it, quote unquote, in their industry, um, who is championing you along the way.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: So then you're the next person to pick up the mantle.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, at the World Literacy Foundation, we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks, such as reading the label of a medicine bottle, filling in a job application, or understanding a traffic sign.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: When we help someone to acquire literacy skills, we're empowering them to access to better opportunities in life to break the poverty cycle.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a global organisation in Africa, Latin America, the United States, the United Kingdom, and in Australia.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: The World Literacy Foundation is on a mission to ensure that every child, regardless of geographic location, has the opportunity to acquire literacy skills and books to reach their full potential.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're striving to eradicate a literacy by 2040.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Reading and writing should just be a basic right, not a privilege.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So please, if you're interested, head to our website at the World Literacy Foundation to see what is happening globally, this extraordinary organisation, when we realise that there are 750 million people who cannot read and write.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So see if you can contribute and make a difference.