Latest / DunkersPodcast / USwim Meets the Dunkers | Community Swimming and Cold Water Confidence

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USwim Meets the Dunkers | Community Swimming and Cold Water Confidence · DunkersPodcast

0:11
And good afternoon from the Dunkers Podcast.
0:14
Now, thank you for listening. Your, your effort, your ears and
0:19
your commitment mean everything to us here at the Dunkers
0:22
Podcast. And we've only got one thing
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that we ever ask. And that is if you enjoy it,
0:27
please hit follow, ring the bell, and then you'll know when
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the new episodes are out. And most importantly, share it
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amongst your friends. Now, I'd also like to just take
0:38
this opportunity to thank Emma Wood who looks after all the
0:42
social media side for us, and also Jason Hurd, who makes this
0:46
random sound at least bearable and recordable because he's the
0:52
guy that cleans up the up the message that I make on
0:56
microphone. So here we are today and we are
0:59
literally in the hills. We're miles away from anywhere
1:04
and I'm here with Karen and Dave Quartermaine.
1:08
So we're going to dive into the world of Youswim, one of EU KS
1:13
biggest and boldest open water communities.
1:17
These folk aren't just about swimming, they're about
1:20
connection, courage and cold water camaraderie.
1:25
As we look ahead to the winter swim season, with brave dunkers
1:29
leading icy plunges in Abersoch and beyond, we'll also explore
1:34
what drives people to swap duvets for dry robes, why open
1:38
water communities matter, and how the spirit of cold water
1:42
swimming continues to ripple across the UK.
1:46
So zip up your wet suit, or don't if you don't want.
1:49
We won't judge. And join me as we take the
1:52
plunge with Karen and Dave from Uswing.
1:55
Karen and Dave, good afternoon and welcome to Dunker's podcast.
1:58
Good afternoon. Yeah, hi.
2:01
Thank you. Tell us.
2:02
Tell our listener where we are because it's miles away.
2:06
Well, we are in Burnley, Lancashire, on the top of the
2:10
hill, yes, with a beautiful autumnal view of woods and
2:14
trees. It's fantastic up here.
2:15
Yeah, and if you look out the window, you'll be able to see
2:18
Pendle in the distance. Home with the famous witch
2:21
stories, of course. Of course, yes.
2:23
That's that's outside that window.
2:25
Right. OK, So what happens on spooky
2:29
nights? Anything or something?
2:31
There's always things happening on spooky nights around here.
2:33
It's a spooky place I was. Going to say I probably
2:36
shouldn't. And we won't go into the ghost
2:38
story surrounding this, this room where you're sat right now.
2:41
All right, now do you know I'm going to?
2:43
People won't believe this, but I'm actually sitting but minus
2:47
cows in a barn, am I not? Cow shed.
2:50
Yeah, absolutely not Cow shed. What a beautiful job you made of
2:54
it. Yeah, they would have been
2:55
spoiled. And they've still been here.
2:56
You know Karen. Yeah, Yeah, they would.
2:59
There's a whole deluxe deluxe travel of Cow for sure.
3:03
Absolutely, Dave, tell us a bit about yourself.
3:06
Well, I'm an open water swimmer, event organiser, have been
3:10
swimming since I was very young. My mum, my mum was a lifeguard
3:14
in a local pool, grew up swimming, joining the local
3:17
club, fell in love with open water.
3:19
We live by the side of a canal in a place called Marple in
3:23
Stockport and that's where we we started swimming open waters
3:28
before all the barges were round.
3:30
So we used to kind of go in from being toddlers and my mum was on
3:33
the side kind of looking after us and if she saw any rats she'd
3:37
give a, she'd shout rats, we'd have to swim to the side.
3:39
Lovely and mad story. My mum was incredible.
3:43
I remember walking down the truck path once and with the
3:46
family and somebody was falling in and drowning in the water.
3:50
So literally they were going under.
3:52
Yeah, my mum just took a coat off, put the pram to one side
3:56
and just literally dived in the water, dragged this guy out
4:00
spluttering, pulled him onto the towpath and just put a coat back
4:03
on. And we kind of went to the shops
4:05
and it was like, OK, another day in Marple by the.
4:08
Side, Absolutely. And did he know that he'd been
4:10
saved by a Samaritan? A water Samaritan.
4:12
Yeah, I think he, I think he knew.
4:14
We didn't. We, we, we were travelling off
4:16
to the shops after that and this guy was sitting on the side
4:18
dripping wet. But yes, I grew up in that place
4:22
and attempted to swim in the Channel a number of times, set
4:25
up an open water business. So yeah, open water swimming has
4:30
always been in my DNA. Really.
4:31
Brilliant. When you say you attempted to
4:33
swim the channel, what what happened then?
4:36
Oh, Oh yeah. You mean the English Channel?
4:38
The English Channel, I mean, that was for open water
4:41
swimmers. That's not Mount Everest, is it
4:43
really? It really is.
4:45
Yeah, Yeah. Is that just for English Oak
4:47
water swimmers or is that sort of a global thing that it's a
4:51
challenge that all swimmers in all?
4:53
Countries. It really is what I mean, since
4:55
1875, when Captain Matthew Webb sort of like was the first guy
5:00
to ever swim, it's right. It's been something that is just
5:05
gained traction around the world and especially in the kind of
5:08
the Commonwealth. So it's huge in places like
5:11
Australia, you know, swimming English Channel is is seen as
5:14
the most iconic open water swim in the world.
5:17
It's kind of 21 miles, 3036 kilometres.
5:22
And I think it's this symbolic thing from swimming from England
5:25
to France. Yeah, you know, that's a huge
5:27
thing. It is.
5:28
But amongst the Brits, you know, certainly open mortar swimmers,
5:31
it's like swimming in this channel is, is our our kind of
5:34
like our Mount Everest really is, you know, and as a kid
5:38
growing up as an open mortar swimmer, you know, and seeing a
5:41
young guy called is it Tom Gregory is a 13 year old.
5:45
He's a 13 year old who's from the English Channel.
5:47
I remember as a as a kid seeing him swim it and thinking by Eck,
5:52
if Tom can do it, I'm going to give it a go on myself.
5:55
So even from being a very, very young child, you know, it was
5:59
always in my kind of wish list. And DNA, almost DNA.
6:03
Yeah. Karen, have you ever, have you
6:05
ever wanted, been inspired to want to swim the channel along
6:08
that side? No I haven't.
6:11
I have to say it's not one of the swims that I've ever wanted
6:13
to do. I have completed 3 English
6:16
Channel relays, so I have been across and I do now go across
6:19
regularly when support swimmers, I'm training to do the English
6:21
Channel. So that's part of my job now,
6:24
isn't it? Jersey, France, Yeah.
6:25
Oh yeah, yeah. So I have done some big swims.
6:27
I've swam like the length of Windermere.
6:29
I've swam from Jersey to France, which is 16 miles.
6:33
So I did do that. That was a swim that I actually
6:37
did to see if I did want to swim in the English Channel because I
6:40
just felt a bit of a pressure. Like Dave said, it wakes to swim
6:42
in to do so I felt pressured that, oh gosh, to be part of
6:45
this business and and relate to these people, I kind of need to
6:48
have a go at this. And so I did lots of relays and
6:51
then I did the Jersey France and vomiting for like the last 4 1/2
6:56
hours and thought, you know what, I don't know, this is for
6:58
me. And I got I mean, it was, you
7:00
know, it was euphoric and I did the glowish run out to the sand.
7:03
You know, I'm here. And then I think I kind of like
7:07
went semi conscious, unconscious on the way back from all the
7:09
seasickness, got off the boat and was absolutely fine.
7:12
And I went to my chicken, chicken Nuggets and chips on my
7:15
side, as you would as you would. And when no, the channel solos
7:18
are not. No, no.
7:20
But that was the Jersey swim was pretty significant.
7:23
It's pretty, it was a, it's a pretty big swim.
7:25
Yeah. I just don't think like Dave's
7:26
saying about the English or particularly you don't get the
7:28
kudos for certain swims. So no, things like, well, Karen,
7:31
you know, my swim is irrelevant because it's Jersey France,
7:33
Yeah, you know, but it's still a bloody big swim.
7:35
It is well swim absolutely before we dive off into a bit
7:39
more, well a lot more about you swim.
7:41
Dave, you were saying before we got on air that you'd actually,
7:44
obviously, you know, Abersock and that's where Abersock
7:47
Dunkers hails from and you've, you've swum around the islands
7:50
from the beach. Yeah, love Abersoch.
7:52
You know, it's, it's one of those places which as as a kid
7:56
we, we went to Telefan and had a holiday caravan there.
8:01
So always on the beach, always wandering around the Warren as
8:04
well. So, you know, to go down there
8:07
as an adult and do those swims. So IA lot of my training swims
8:10
for things like the English Channel and all the big swims
8:13
was around the islands. So we'd start off at Abersoch
8:16
Beach. You know, you've got that
8:18
amazing view out to the islands. Have you?
8:20
Absolutely. So I'd swim around the islands
8:23
and come back to Abasot Beach and I think a workshop, it's
8:26
about 5 1/2 miles. It's roughly the length of
8:29
conjuring water, but tricky. You know, we're not, we're not
8:33
kind of like seep areas like you, you, you grow up around the
8:37
tide and the. Yeah, yeah.
8:39
You know, we're freshwater folk up in north, in the north, you
8:43
know, we used to cornisters and windermeres.
8:45
So to go down there, it's like it's, it's requires a real
8:48
expertise. Yeah.
8:50
So, but yeah, we used to go down there regularly and I used to
8:52
guide swimmers around the islands and we had an event down
8:56
there, Ocean Swim for a while, you know, And there still is a
8:59
little bit in me about swimming around Barty Island as well.
9:03
That is a that is a big, big ask, massive ask because of the
9:07
because. Well, Dave, Dave, do you not
9:11
know that some seafarers on big yachts will not even go through
9:15
the sound? Yeah, well, we'll, we'll find
9:20
that as we go down. I think there's there's a whole
9:22
compendium of achievements that you've done.
9:24
But tell me what what encouraged both of you to start use than in
9:28
2000? Well, I was a coach at local
9:33
triathlon club in Manchester and they had a a regular event down
9:38
at a lake in in Cheshire Boundary Water Park, but they
9:41
only could use it once a year. So because I was the coach of
9:45
the club, as somebody said to me, could you arrange regular
9:48
access to this lake? Because we don't do any open
9:50
water training. And this was in the kind of like
9:53
the mid 90s, very early, you know, very early in the kind of
9:59
like triathlon phenomenon, I suppose.
10:02
Yeah. So what I did, I, I went down, I
10:04
went down to the lake, arranged access, a weekly access.
10:09
So for the first kind of season, I had about 12 people wandering
10:12
down who I, who I knew that all their names of.
10:15
And I would basically give them a training session in the lake
10:18
as their coach and they'd be clown round and they would get
10:22
out crazily enough. And then the year after I'm
10:25
stood there with my clipboard expecting the 12 people and all
10:28
these cars started pouring in. There's like 70 people turned
10:31
off like help. So it kind of like found found
10:37
an audience, really. Yeah.
10:38
You know, and so I have a supervised open water swim with
10:42
somebody down there and we eventually got a boat in there
10:44
and we put boys out. It just became much more
10:46
structured and supervised. Did that take the the fun out of
10:51
it at all, or did that actually increase the OR encourage the
10:55
fun because people felt more secure and safe?
10:59
I think for me it was total stress.
11:02
Oh really? God, 60 people.
11:04
I'm on my own. So there's a, there was a sense
11:07
that whatever started here so quickly, granted, like roped in
11:10
friends and, and some family, you know, just to help cope with
11:13
the numbers. But I think all the people that
11:16
came down came, began to come down pretty regularly.
11:19
And I think they loved the fact that there was water safety and
11:24
there's other people there as well.
11:25
And, and you could really see them getting out the water
11:30
chatting with each other. And there's a real sense of like
11:32
camaraderie amongst the attendees.
11:34
I. Was going to say a community.
11:35
You were you were developing a community, right?
11:38
And it was in the really early days, so mid 90s where people
11:45
were doing those things. And when I was training for my
11:46
big swims, I was having to go to play the, the seaside and swim.
11:51
I'd I'd go to places like Abersoch and I'd swim out for an
11:54
hour on my own, turn round and swim an hour back and sometimes
11:58
end up in in another, you know? Another.
12:00
Big place patelli or something, you know, in the trunks.
12:03
So it was all harem scary, Yeah. For the residents of Patelli.
12:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure. I'm bummed.
12:12
Yeah, honestly, anything goes down there, Dave.
12:14
Yeah, even the half. Even the half.
12:16
Even the half. Yeah, yeah.
12:18
So, Karen, did he get you in at the the water at this time or
12:21
were you a previous swimmer and your two souls collided?
12:25
Well, yes, it's well, our two souls collided, but completely
12:29
differently. So we, I met Dave when he didn't
12:32
really say in Manchester. I wasn't part of any open water
12:36
swimming community. I just used to go heads up,
12:38
breast stroke with my friends, then go for half a lager after.
12:41
That was me. And so I fell into open water
12:44
actually following a back injury.
12:46
So I had major spinal surgery and that was my physio.
12:49
So I found water about 1314 years ago and I ended up
12:55
wandering down to one of these sessions in Salford and the
12:58
sports masseur had gone for a dip because it was a hot day.
13:03
And I, I booked a sports massage with the guy.
13:08
He'd gone for a dip. Dave saw me hanging around and
13:11
kind of went, what are you doing?
13:13
I said, waiting for him. He said, oh, he's going for a
13:14
swim, hop on the bed and I'll, I'll give you a massage.
13:17
You. Do he?
13:19
Impersonated a massage. Basically impersonated a
13:22
massage, we got chatted and chatted and the rest is history.
13:27
So I, I was very new to swimming and then I was literally, I'm
13:32
just doing it for more for about, for my back and the
13:33
exercise that I could do. And I think I'd set myself like
13:36
a one mile challenge. And I was a wet suit swimmer
13:38
then, right? Yeah, wet suit.
13:41
So a lot has changed. Yeah, yeah.
13:42
Did you see if you can remember the vision?
13:46
Did you see the vision as Dave did or did you have to sort of
13:50
come round to it? Did he have to sort of sell you
13:52
the concept of there's a lot of people out there, in fact
13:56
thousands of people out there that really want to help, be
13:59
helped to swim? Did you see that then?
14:01
Or I think I saw it completely differently because I've come
14:06
from a nursing background. So I'm all about processes, flow
14:09
charts. And so I, I could, I could see
14:12
what Dave was doing. But I think the more that I got
14:14
involved, the more it became structured.
14:17
And from this now, I mean, years down the line, it has really,
14:19
really grown. It's gone to a whole different
14:21
level. So as things have got more more
14:24
popular and, and if you like, spokes have come off from a
14:27
structured training venue. So you've got like waterfall
14:30
dips, the wild swimming walks, the cold water and all these
14:33
things are now spoked off from a venue.
14:35
That's where I've come in I think and really developed it
14:38
onto another spectrum. So I feel like Dave's vision was
14:42
there, but it's just gone better and better with my input.
14:45
So tell me about the wild swings and walks.
14:47
Yes. So we started those probably
14:50
around COVID time and we just do them generally offseason.
14:54
So we're generally very, very busy from April to August,
14:58
September and the sessions are busy.
15:01
We guide swimmers around the lakes and around, well, we're
15:04
going all over now out of Jersey Did we do the English Channel
15:06
quite a lot and Anisea and Pond. But we, so we started using the
15:13
community that we already have down at the venue and listening
15:16
to what they kind of want. And it just grew, didn't it, to
15:18
meet up and have, we're doing what we do and inviting them
15:20
along with us. So we love going for a walk,
15:23
seeing a town or, and jumping in.
15:25
So I thought, well, why don't we bring in all these people with
15:26
us? So that's how we that's how we
15:28
started it. Which is really the sort of the
15:30
the birthright of while swimming, isn't it?
15:32
You know, I think we started going up to Snowdon with one of
15:36
the dunkers, Dawn, and she absolutely cannot get to head
15:41
around jellyfish. She doesn't even like fish, but
15:44
she can't get her head around jellyfish.
15:46
So she was always, she she was dunker by heart, but by not in
15:50
the ocean. So she was, she's a great
15:52
explorer. She's Mountaineer.
15:54
So she said, tell you what guys, let's go up to the to Snowden.
15:58
And that's how we started to go up to the pools at the Watkin
16:01
Path, etcetera. And, and I think that that's how
16:04
these things develop, isn't it? Yeah.
16:07
Absolutely, it's from China and and exploring new places
16:09
together. Even it's quite tricky because
16:11
it's a hobby that we like doing, but it's also our business.
16:14
So it you know, it's quite tricky.
16:16
So when I go out with my friends and we're just off like walking
16:18
past whatever we have a little weekend away and we you know, we
16:20
don't I'm always like we're I'm just Karen.
16:24
I'm not a coach, I'm not a lifeguard, I'm just having a
16:27
wild swimming or crazy place. So exactly that.
16:30
So there's two sort of worlds, isn't?
16:31
There, Yeah. And what I do like about the
16:33
wild, the kind of wild swim walk is that you walk to a kind of
16:38
beautiful place. You're kind of like connecting
16:40
with with nature itself, because we are completely disconnected
16:44
now in this modern society, aren't we?
16:46
So that's kind of the wildness side of it.
16:48
But you've got an opportunity with the with group that you're
16:51
with just to kind of touch upon loads of things on the walk.
16:55
You know, it's not just like fast and furious down our venues
16:58
where it's basically in out and they've gone.
17:01
It's like the wildest woman walks.
17:02
You're with people for a day. So you give up super
17:05
friendships, don't you? And really get beneath the skin
17:08
and and and connect. Yeah.
17:10
Yeah, and and from that we've had people, lone people turn up
17:13
to our wild swim walks and the friends, the friends forever,
17:16
you know, with all. Yeah, you're almost matchmaking,
17:19
I swear, honestly, it's I mean this is the this is what we
17:23
think so special about you swim and the community and even the Q
17:26
swim adventure side of that is we meet people, we really do
17:30
connect. I think we're very much about
17:32
the person. You know, it's not about me and
17:33
Dave, it's about them. And, and particularly of the
17:36
wild swimming walks, like Dave just said, we'll get chatting.
17:39
We're really conscious of, you know, making sure that everyone
17:41
feels safe and welcome. And by the end of these days, I
17:44
mean, it's just phenomenal. You see people just bonding and
17:47
then afterwards they'll say, Oh yeah, we're meeting, we're all
17:49
meeting next week. We're going to such and such.
17:51
And then we see them coming together and then they come to
17:54
all our wild swimming walks together.
17:55
And then new people are introduced from that group.
17:58
It's a massive community. Karen, you're like the seller
18:00
black of open. It's my new hats.
18:03
Yeah, totally you are. Have you got any idea how many
18:06
people that you're touching through through you swim?
18:10
Do you know what it's? I think it's quite scary because
18:13
I don't think me and Dave are very humble.
18:15
I don't think we realise what we've, well, what obviously
18:18
started from day's passion at the start and then what we've
18:20
built together since. And I think more recently lots
18:23
of people are connecting with us telling us that they're saying,
18:26
Oh my God, guys, you, you know, you, you, you set the way.
18:29
A lot of people are watching what you do and they're kind of
18:32
replicating that in, in their way.
18:33
But if we still sit back, the last 13 years we've done
18:36
together and we've put teams together that have done big
18:39
swims but equally people together that have done a mile
18:42
swim together and shed the load. OK, so as a as a relay?
18:47
Oh yeah. It's, it's not just big swims,
18:51
is it? We are about small things.
18:53
You know, if people do 200 meters, right?
18:55
And it's like, come on, you know when?
18:57
You when you can't familiar, you've just started to swim 200
18:59
meters is it's huge. It is a big way.
19:01
It's huge. So I think we fit the whole
19:03
spectrum. Don't we have like we have
19:05
people who qualify who set world records and we have people whose
19:08
world records might be get from the end of the the dock to a boy
19:13
and. We work.
19:13
We work with people who are on the whole spectrum, don't we?
19:17
Oh, the. Whole spectrum and some of our
19:19
amazing achievements is like finding finding a person who
19:24
doubted that they could even swim from the side to a boy,
19:28
right, and then encouraging a couple of years later to go onto
19:31
a channel relay team and then to swim in the English Channel.
19:34
You know, and they don't, sometimes we woke people and
19:36
they don't believe they are capable of what they, you know,
19:39
what they can achieve. But you can see them, you can
19:42
see. Oh yeah, we can see that.
19:45
But equally I'm cutting in there, but equally we also get
19:47
people who who have something big up there and we're the ones
19:52
who after a while are kind of going.
19:54
Do you know what? Maybe that's just not for you
19:57
bit. Too bit too much of a big step
19:59
bit. Bit big, but how about this
20:01
instead? So I think.
20:03
That really is coaching, isn't it?
20:05
Well, yeah. That's sort of understanding
20:07
them. Yeah.
20:07
And understanding holistically that what, what they're capable
20:11
of or what you really can see they're capable of, and just
20:14
thinking you, you know, the environment they're gonna be in,
20:17
you have to manage that, don't you?
20:19
It's our psychic swimming ability.
20:21
Already. I'm picking up swimming.
20:23
I I can see. Water around you as I sat there,
20:28
yeah, we did the figures and I think we we had a since the
20:33
beginning of you swim. We we probably welcomed like
20:36
over 350,000 visits. So we added up how many towns
20:41
people visit. So it's, it's well, well, close
20:44
to half a million people who have like actually been and swam
20:48
over the years. There is a.
20:50
Bit of a amazing that actually that is just worth repeating.
20:54
Almost half a million people in what?
20:56
How many years since? The mid 90s.
20:58
Wow, That is, that is incredible.
21:01
Yeah. A lot of people owe a lot of
21:03
confidence to you because that's what you've been giving them,
21:05
isn't it? You're sort of giving them
21:07
confidence as much as I guess, skill of, well, this is how you
21:11
actually do the crawl this way, the proper way.
21:14
What is great, it's almost like we've, I mean, certainly I feel
21:17
like I've tossed a, I've tossed a stone in the middle of middle
21:19
of this, this lake and all the ripples have gone out.
21:22
And the ripples are people who've gone on to do big and
21:26
small things. People set their own lakes up
21:28
their own small businesses. It's kind of created this kind
21:32
of like ripple effect. And then the media got involved.
21:37
Then you started seeing it in adverts and generally, you know,
21:41
there's a lot more out there now.
21:43
And I remember in the day you would be seen as a kind of bit,
21:47
bit eccentric, right in Windermere with a pair of budgie
21:50
smugglers on. Yeah, in a race with 20 other
21:52
people. But now it's kind of like it's,
21:54
it's the look, people jumping off jetties.
21:57
Yeah. You know, it's great.
21:58
Yeah. It's become a real.
22:00
Everybody wants one of the on their social media, they want a
22:02
one of those pictures, don't they, where they're sort of
22:05
being a bit more extreme and a bit more out there, as you say.
22:08
Flowing with health, Yeah, Big troubles in the distance, the
22:12
sun setting. Lovely.
22:14
What do you think is the biggest poll about about open water
22:18
swimming? Do you think it's that?
22:19
Do you think it's that personal that can do it or is it just the
22:24
fact that you're actually going, you're taking on the weather, or
22:27
is it something else? I think it's a combination.
22:30
Is it because we see people who doing it who doing it for
22:33
different reasons, don't we? We get somewhere in, they will
22:36
literally say it's just about the chat and the cake.
22:38
I just come for the chat and the cake.
22:40
You know, you're in the water for a minute.
22:42
It's the cake. And then equally get a lot of
22:44
people who want that quiet personal space who they see it
22:47
as. I mean, I don't like to call it
22:48
therapy and I hate the word cold water therapy because I think
22:51
therapy is different and it's more professional.
22:54
I think it's more of a coping mechanism for whatever.
22:57
So I think there's lots of different aspects to why people
23:00
do it. I mean, I personally do it just
23:02
to for different reasons on different days.
23:04
Someone I might be feeling stressed.
23:05
So I'm thinking, do you know what?
23:07
I just need some time out and that and I'm drawn to the cold
23:09
for that. I mean, often Dave will say
23:11
you're a bit ratty now getting tub and you know what I mean?
23:14
It's for that. But other times it's like like
23:17
next weekend in Windermere, for example, and it's you know, and
23:19
I pull some friends for a full weekend up there just because I
23:22
want a bit of a laugh. I want fun, I want a bit of
23:24
adventure. Yes, there's different reasons.
23:27
Yeah, I I mean, first of all, we're descended from fishing,
23:30
aren't we? Yes.
23:31
So you 500 million years ago? Yeah, we've got gills.
23:34
We're. Dragging ourselves up the up
23:36
various mud flats. So it's in our DNA, you know, if
23:41
we look back far enough, that's what we were.
23:43
And I think we've always had that connection with, with
23:47
water, you know, and we, we went from that, you know, amphibians
23:52
to mammals, you know, and, and these crazy busy lives that we
23:56
live now where we're disconnected from, from
23:59
ourselves, from nature, we're drawn back to nature for
24:03
healing, for connection. So you, you can see this wild in
24:07
the call it wild, you know, when I grow up, it's just swimming,
24:09
yes, jumping in the canal going to absorb the swimming.
24:13
We never wild, you know, you know, so that sense of people
24:18
having to do something a little bit out of the ordinary to
24:20
connect themselves, you know, it's it's a birthright of us as.
24:24
As as fish it is. Yeah.
24:26
Yeah. And then and as humans, which
24:29
we've now evolved into. Yeah.
24:30
Yeah. So would you say there is, is
24:33
there a secret? No, not would you?
24:35
Is there a secret formula to balancing safety, spirit and
24:40
spontaneity? I think the secret, the formula
24:45
there, I think that the, the thing that links all is passion.
24:48
And I think if you've got a person who's passionate about,
24:51
about let's say open water swimming, passionate enough to
24:54
respect it, have huge respects for the cold tidal conditions,
25:01
the nature itself, and not always be humble.
25:04
You know, you can never get cowed away with yourself in the
25:07
open water. It'll just turn around and bite
25:09
you, you know, you know, living close to the sea and, and all
25:13
its various conditions. But I, I would say it's, it's
25:18
passion, people being involved in it passionately enough to
25:21
want to make it safe. Make sure make sure the people
25:25
that go are safe, you know, be respectful.
25:29
So I think that's one of the things, isn't it?
25:31
Do you think? I think that the links open
25:32
water swimmers. Cake.
25:35
Cake. Coffee cake.
25:37
Dave's so deep, isn't he? Hands Cake.
25:39
Cake giggles. Connection.
25:42
Great, that's great. Well, and there's there's a sort
25:45
of a cake connection and giggles is a sort of a a triangle of of
25:50
good feeling, isn't it? Oh.
25:51
Percent, yeah. How do you, so how do you
25:54
prepare, bearing in mind that Dave's more sort of scientific
25:58
and he's sort of looking at it that way, you're a little bit
26:01
not more not so superficial, but definitely more into the into
26:05
the this is a buzz is how do you prepare new swimmers?
26:10
When you first meet somebody who comes down and said, well, I've
26:13
come down because so and so has said and they rock up in the
26:17
car, they don't know anybody and how, how do you get over that?
26:20
How do you get them in with you? Yeah.
26:22
So I spend quite a lot of time actually on land just finding
26:26
out a little bit more about them.
26:27
So first of all, have they, can they swim?
26:31
Because we do get lots of people, especially after the Wim
26:34
Hof program, who would come down because I think it's a good idea
26:38
and they've done some showers, who would come down and just
26:40
say, I want to give it a go. I can shower or I've sat in a
26:43
tub for 20 minutes. I'm good.
26:45
And I always try to like respect what they've done and what they
26:48
already know. But then I'll take them through,
26:50
you know, a little process, a little script that I have about
26:53
safety about to expect from a breathing point of view.
26:57
Often depending how nervous or what vibe I'm getting that off
27:01
them. I've actually gone in with them
27:02
and done it as a supportive thing.
27:04
Or I've got we've got lots of buddies at our venue.
27:06
That's what's so great, isn't it?
27:08
And we can just call some of the girls and go and, you know, just
27:11
hold this saying girls because it's predominantly women.
27:13
Let's be honest. Yeah, it is.
27:15
But yeah. And say guy, you know, the the
27:18
she wants to get in and you are happy.
27:20
Once I've had a bit of a chat with her and they'll support
27:21
them in. So I just like to make sure that
27:24
they know that the breath can go, what the skin can feel like
27:28
to stay within their limits and just be sensible for the first
27:31
time. I'm really and what to expect
27:32
after how to get changed because we want them back, don't we?
27:35
We want them, we want them back. We want them in their
27:37
communities and we want them to be have a positive experience.
27:40
Absolutely. So, Dave, why aren't more men
27:42
doing it? Because, Karen, you were dead
27:45
right. You're dead, right?
27:47
I think it's incredibly social, first of all, and I think women,
27:50
women are just more connected generally in terms of social
27:53
media just, you know, just generally been comfortable
27:57
talking with you. They.
27:58
Chat a lot, don't they? Yeah.
28:00
And I think those men, we, we've, we've, we've, we've kind
28:03
of brought up to bottle our emotions, you know, and it's
28:07
seen as a little bit of a weakness to, to talk to other
28:10
people. And, and that's to help and just
28:12
to share, to share, you know, your thoughts.
28:15
And, and I was all, I grew up like as the, the, the man of the
28:19
house, you know, the, the sun in air, you know, and it was kind
28:24
of like, you know, it was seen as a weakness to, to the cry and
28:27
all those things. To show any crash at all to.
28:30
Show and I think open yeah, exactly I think open water
28:32
swimming is is incredibly supportive and there's that
28:37
community and I think men are in it, but not to the same degree
28:41
of women. And I think it's general that
28:45
and the demographics, you know, it's like 78% women, you know,
28:49
generally middle-aged ish, you know, in, in, especially in the,
28:52
in the cooler temperatures and, and the, the men might be
28:56
training for events, doing triathlons, very goal
28:59
orientated, focused, you know, as opposed to social.
29:03
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:05
So it's whether cold swimming could ever become our man cave,
29:09
I guess. I guess for the ones of us who
29:12
are males and who do swim regularly, in a way it is our
29:16
sort of man cave because it's certainly with down in
29:18
Abbotsville. There's 9 or 10 guys who come
29:22
and probably 6, seven of us regularly.
29:26
So we've, you know, I was what, 30, mid 30s?
29:29
And you were in Ireland recently, weren't you?
29:32
Visiting Ireland, visiting a friend and you saw that the male
29:35
swimming community over there was incredible.
29:37
Oh, huge. Yeah, really.
29:39
Yeah, yeah, it was massive and and everywhere you went, I was
29:42
like near Black Rock and the 4040 foot.
29:46
And all day, every day there's these groups and groups of guys
29:50
who've all retired who just meet up with a little flask, have a
29:53
date, have a chat. And I was like, this is awesome.
29:57
It was. And I, you know, I sat there and
29:58
just chatted because one, I love the accent and two, were so
30:01
bloody warm and welcoming and they don't my northern accent.
30:03
Well, you know, come and sit out and chat.
30:06
That's lovely. And I was like, Oh my God, yours
30:08
is lovely too. But I think, I mean, we actually
30:13
do have problem. But out of 60 regulars, maybe a
30:15
polar swim, you know, in the winter swim, we probably have
30:18
eight men. Do you?
30:20
Yeah, they're regulars, aren't they?
30:21
And we are aware of little groups that do meet up.
30:25
And I'd say a bit more of the Wilder, they're going to a safe
30:27
place where they can stand up and they'll just dump their
30:29
shoulders under and have some time out.
30:31
There's lots of little support groups out there now and that's
30:33
been great to see and but we don't really get them on the
30:36
wild swimming walk. So we may get a husband that's
30:39
been dragged because it's the birthday or so.
30:41
And I think one of the things that we realised with the wild
30:43
swimming walks or our version of that was that you've, you've got
30:48
to sort of remember about that wherever you get to, you have to
30:52
strip off, even if you've got your cosy on and then you get in
30:56
the water and you come out and, but you've got to strip off
30:58
because you can't carry on walking up a mountain with wet
31:01
with wet trunks. So, and I think there's I think
31:04
women have got a bit more of a sort of a level on that they OK,
31:09
well, if that's what we've got to do, we've got to strip off
31:11
and the guy, I think guys are a bit more.
31:13
Or am I just putting men into a bit of a square box?
31:17
You're speaking for yourself there, I think.
31:19
Probably not. No, no, no.
31:22
I'll, I'll. Remember these trunks?
31:23
I'll go with my trunks without my trunks.
31:25
I did big swims. Yeah, seriously, that's one
31:29
without things. Would you?
31:30
I didn't like the feel of the construction and and and the
31:34
fact that it affected my our tan lines.
31:36
So when I did like 10 hour swims, yeah, you know, I, I
31:40
would just chunks off and we swam, didn't we swam lot net
31:43
lock or into lock or and I was with the relay team, right.
31:47
And I jumped in and then threw my trunks on board and and Karen
31:51
and these three of the guys were going, good Lord, put your
31:54
trunk. That's disgusting.
31:56
I said that's that's the way I roll, right.
31:58
No trucks, right. And before the end of that swim,
32:00
nobody wore any costumes. Nobody.
32:03
And we did and we did. I am.
32:05
They're a bit of backstroke, breaststroke.
32:07
Really. So you never say that that
32:10
swimming doesn't isn't a leveller.
32:12
There was like there was a a beautiful picture of actually
32:14
when we ended out in in front of Kilcher.
32:17
And. Castle Kilcher and Castle of as
32:19
an Achid stud at the finish. Oh really?
32:21
When I went in the outdoor swimmer I think it was.
32:23
They obviously didn't have a lot of wild stock in that that lake
32:26
then no, no wild stock that bothered you.
32:29
Scared them out. Yeah, exactly.
32:31
Exactly. So what's the, what's a really
32:35
nice story that you've heard or you've, you've you can remember
32:38
from you swim. When you think about the the
32:40
almost half a million people that have been through your
32:43
hands, is there something that that really sort of sticks out
32:47
and thinks that that makes this all worthwhile?
32:52
I think for me, it's a group of ladies that joined us who would
32:56
all come together after having significant loss in the life of
33:01
children. And they'd all met at a support
33:04
group local to them, all various stages of loss and didn't they?
33:08
And they all really honestly came together through the water.
33:13
They connected through the water to help them through the grief
33:15
and they're still as solid as a rock as a as a group now.
33:18
And Dave took them to swim the length of Windermere as a relay
33:21
team. And yeah, I think it's them
33:24
because God even speak about it now gets male chalked.
33:28
Yeah, That was a really powerful experience.
33:30
Very powerful. Yeah.
33:31
It had a real cathartic effect on those ladies to be together,
33:35
to talk and then feel as though they were doing this incredible
33:39
thing and they felt the presence of their, you know, the people
33:43
who passed. So it was a very powerful thing.
33:46
And they, and they still, and they're still together now, you
33:49
know, supporting each other. It's it's lovely.
33:52
And they love one about the community equally.
33:55
They've they come to the wild swim walks, don't they quite
33:57
often. And they bring all the people
33:59
that they've ended up meeting up and saying, look, this is, you
34:01
know, this is what we do that we find this, you know, really, it
34:04
really helps souls. And it's a really safe space.
34:06
So come along and they hustle people into their little nest
34:10
Don'tly. And I think it's stories like
34:12
because there's loads of them though.
34:13
There's so many of them. Yeah.
34:14
It's an interesting question. I just think back to last year's
34:19
summer solstice swim whereby everybody had these illuminated
34:24
kind of tow floats and there was a couple of 100 people wading
34:27
into a lake. And it was this beautiful clear
34:29
night and just swimming around the boys.
34:32
And I just thought how how magical, how magical to see this
34:36
kind of like all these lovely people all lit up and all in
34:41
various stages of fancy dressing things.
34:44
And it, it was like quite a spiritual, kind of like natural
34:48
experience. But yeah, this, this, this
34:52
masses of of like experiences, whether it's one person.
34:57
I remember, I remember giving a swimming lesson to a person who
35:03
was really struggling in this lesson.
35:04
But I just saw something in that person, just the mentality.
35:09
And I actually said in that for a session that you can swing the
35:12
English Channel, I'm going to get you across the English
35:14
Channel. It might be as in a relay team.
35:16
And he was like, Nah, you can never impossible.
35:19
That's ridiculous. Two years later, you know, he
35:22
was on a on an English Channel team, you know, and it was just
35:25
like, and even now we laugh about it when we meet him, it's
35:28
like, oh, I'm not going to be talking for too long.
35:30
You're going to rope me into something?
35:32
And that is less of what people say.
35:34
They'll say if you see me stood on the dockside or at the
35:37
lakeside and we're chatting, Dave's like, don't talk to me
35:40
for too long. You never know what you're going
35:41
to end up. But I love that.
35:45
I think our energy, our energy and our love for helpers.
35:48
But it really, I think that comes across and it can be quite
35:51
contagious. And sometimes we just give each
35:54
other a little bit of a nip because it's like, right.
35:55
OK, back off Me. Oh, my God.
35:58
We just saw you swimming. You're beautiful.
35:59
Did you swim as a child and not? I did, yeah.
36:02
You're like, what are you thinking?
36:04
Like, I'm thinking anything. I'm thinking.
36:06
I'm thinking. And I'm like, I'm thinking this
36:08
like really? I think the great thing about
36:11
sort of dunking up more swimming is you're going to meet
36:15
variations of yourself. You're going to meet like minded
36:17
people because that's why the people who are normally open
36:20
minded give things a go, you know, pretty resilient, you
36:24
know, up for up for a bit of a laugh, don't take themselves too
36:27
seriously. You're basically meeting kind of
36:29
like comrades in arms. Really, absolutely swim.
36:33
You know, and we find that the people who come down with loads
36:35
of ego and walking around like, you know, 10 men, they come once
36:40
and they're kind of like they don't come again.
36:42
They don't, it's not their place.
36:45
The people who come down want to have a chat, don't take
36:47
themselves seriously. It's like that, isn't it?
36:49
It's very much meeting yourself at these kind of places.
36:53
And then the community just embraces you, welcomes you, and
36:56
you're part of it. And then you, you that that must
36:58
pervade through and you just you, you see somebody else new
37:02
and you just encourage them. And this is what happened to me.
37:05
And, and I know one of our dunkers, Eve, she's somebody
37:08
who, you know, Karen. Yeah, yeah, she is.
37:11
We go back to Tameside General Hospital as paediatric nurses.
37:14
I love Eve. Yes, absolutely.
37:16
She is the she. She's like a water baby.
37:19
She'll get in because we always go down and oh, this is a real
37:22
aside, but I'll tell you, we always go down for about 8:00 in
37:25
the morning. Eve, whenever she's in
37:27
Abbotsore, she'll it be in the water already and she'll come
37:31
out later than or after everybody else she's got.
37:34
I don't know how she does it. She has a just a normal bikini
37:37
on and she can just withstand it and she just just swims up and
37:42
down to the the slipway and it's just nice to see.
37:46
It's it's awesome actually seeing those pictures with
37:49
Yvonne. Oh, you've managed to catch
37:51
some. Yeah, absolutely it was.
37:53
Yeah, it was awesome. It fetched by lots of other
37:54
memories of me and Eve, but not in the water, funnily enough.
37:57
Well, you must make that happen. OK, is so thank.
38:01
Thank you. So far with what I always ask
38:04
people is I'm going to ask you a question which somebody else has
38:07
left for you IEA previous guest. So no heads up and I won't tell
38:12
you who it was. And then when we're off air
38:14
before I go, I'll ask you to give me a question for the next.
38:17
So the question I've got for you is the Karen is if you could
38:22
swim anywhere with anybody, who would it be and where?
38:29
Oh golly. That's a, well, odd question.
38:35
Come on, you can do this. Do you want me to ask Dave while
38:40
you think Yes? Ask Dave.
38:41
OK. Dave, my question to you is, is
38:45
there anything that you've ever said that you really believe is
38:51
the right thing in you swim or in life that people have always
38:55
taken exception to that they've always sort of said we're a bit
38:59
mad on that one? That's a that's a complicated
39:02
question there. I heard you spinning.
39:05
Repeat the question again. OK.
39:06
Is there anything that that's ever happened to you or that
39:09
you've said that you sort of say this is my belief and that
39:13
people just, you could see they want to get round it, but they
39:17
just disagree with you? I believe we are incredible.
39:23
First of all, every one of us are miraculous.
39:27
You know, when you when you kind of like look at what we are
39:30
capable of, you realise that we are incredible.
39:35
So I always think I'm and I'm fortunate that I'm surrounded by
39:39
people who doing incredible things.
39:40
It just affirms to me like the brilliance and kind of like
39:47
majesty of the human being of mentally when they when they
39:50
apply themselves to doing something huge, how they can
39:55
push through adversity and how how people can physically apply
39:59
themselves to training, especially adults.
40:01
We get a lot of adults, people with busy lives to find time to
40:05
train to do big swims and make that sacrifices that they do.
40:09
And a lot of them doubt, doubt themselves.
40:12
And I'm thinking you do not. Know how incredible you are, You
40:17
are brilliant, but people just doubt themselves.
40:21
So when I say to people, you know, you are incredible, you
40:24
know, your achievements are incredible and they're like, I
40:27
know I'm not really. So when I say that to people and
40:30
they doubt themselves, but I fundamentally believe that human
40:35
beings are just incredible, incredible organisms.
40:39
Brilliant. Karen, did you go off there?
40:42
I did. I got out of there.
40:44
Climb every mountain. No, I can't answer.
40:48
Who are you going to swim with? Who you must be?
40:51
You could always say Dave, you know.
40:52
Yeah, well, it's too fast, that's the problem.
40:55
Otherwise I would. God, I honestly, I really don't
40:58
know. I think.
40:58
I mean, I have a swim person that I really, really want to
41:00
do. Who I do I don't know, but it's
41:03
continue to hell in Poland. Sorry, Gadinia.
41:07
To hell, so I was meant to do it this year, but it was weathered
41:10
out for the storm. Do I say I'm sorry to sort of be
41:13
Little is Gadinia one end and hell is?
41:16
Hell is the other. It is, yes.
41:18
And what is it like? It's across the Baltic Sea in
41:21
Poland. It's about 11 miles long.
41:26
Yeah, something like that. And I would like to swim that
41:31
with, oh, I don't know, honestly.
41:36
Don't say good, some good looking Irishman.
41:38
A good looking Irishman. So there we go.
41:42
Well, let me just ask you to hope both of you hold on to
41:45
those dreams because you you're making them come true.
41:47
It's as simple as that. Thank you very much both for for
41:50
joining me today and for welcoming to your home.
41:53
It's really, really lovely to be here.
41:55
And may the spirit of the Dunkers go with you.
41:58
Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you always.
42:00
Nice, welcoming the Welsh into into into our house.
42:02
Yeah, we have to stay over the border sometime, you know then.