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Surviving Human Trafficking, Addiction and Abuse · Recovering Out Loud

0:01
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
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Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
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addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
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If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
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alcohol, please reach out for help.
0:16
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
0:20
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.
0:26
You are no longer alone. Listen, we're pretty much
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talking about, like, the darkest things.
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Like what is there to not say? Yeah.
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Yeah, I mean, addiction, alcoholism, it's pretty dark,
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right? Like there was a lot of dark
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moments, and I have to remember that because I forget.
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I'm a good forgetter, you know. How long have you been sober?
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So I'm coming up on, well, I just had six months again.
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Nice. Yeah, after I had eight years, 7
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1/2 and then I went back out with it started with steroids,
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which oddly enough, everybody like I post videos about it and
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stuff. That's what I started doing.
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Now I don't know why, but I, I enjoy it helps one or two people
1:22
here and there. So why not?
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And I have fun doing it. People always ask me, they're
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like, I don't get it. Like how does steroids mean like
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equal relapse? And I, you know, some people
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that aren't like people in addiction would probably make
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the connection that over time. Well, I'm going to try this now.
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I'm going to try this now. I'm going to try this.
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It's like fucking nasal sprays, you know?
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It's just like, it's just everything is different.
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You're just trying to feel different, be different,
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everything's. Yeah, there's some kind of itch
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I need to scratch, right? Or some kind of God sized hole,
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as they say, some kind of hole that I'm trying to fill.
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And for me it was purely Vandy. Are you going to do you need
2:03
that? No, it's fine.
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Are you sure? Yeah.
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Twitching. Caitlin, thank you so much for
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coming down. I appreciate it.
2:12
Welcome to Recovering Out Loud. Yeah, I was, you know, referred
2:17
to you by I'm one of my mom's friends.
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But now she's becoming my friend and she's a great woman, so I
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appreciate that. And I'm always looking for
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people to have on. And so thank you.
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Yeah, I know it was a bit. How was your day?
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It was a bit of a trek getting down here.
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Yeah, it was really fun. My car was like, not today.
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It's too hot for me. Yeah, I don't.
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Know my battery. I drive a lot.
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My battery's like we're done. Yeah.
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And then so you pivoted and I just, I don't know, I find it
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funny that like things like that used to ruin my fucking week.
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You can swear by the way, I don't know if you, you can talk
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about drugs. We, we like talking about drugs
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on here. They used to like ruin my week,
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right? And it's like you, you send me a
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message, you're like, I'm going to take an Uber And I just, I
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sometimes I like, I just, it sounds so simple to a lot of
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people, but for me that was like not possible to like fix
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problems, right? It was like I had to drink or
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use drugs to like cope with the next stage in the day, right?
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And I, I feel like, you know, the only thing to do was drink,
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right? That was the only choice I had,
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you know? So why don't you tell us a
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little bit about, you know, how you got into recovery, what life
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was like And, yeah, like, how how did you get into recovery?
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What happened? So I'm one of those lucky people
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where my dad is in the program and he got sober when I was
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probably five years old. So I was always that kid that
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was kind of. Sorry that's I feel like it's my
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fault. Running, running around.
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Yeah, I'm like an Italian. That's not Italian, I'm a
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Jewish. Yeah.
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So like I was exposed at a really young age, you know, and
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I think it was like it was super cool to be a part of that.
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Ruined my whole career 'cause I everyone's like, oh, you know,
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go to this, go to a meeting, blah, blah, blah.
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But I would say I probably, you know, qualified to get into
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recovery at about 12 years old, fifteen, I was already like full
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flight, you know, I, I started using drugs after probably about
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12. My parents split up and it was
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just kind of like, I just had this like huge hole.
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Like, I don't know what to what to call it really, But I just
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felt like I was never good enough, you know, if people
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accepted me, if people love me, if people like, I don't know, I
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just needed validation all the time, but it was never enough,
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right? Just like drugs, alcohol, it was
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never enough. 14 years old, I, I lost my virginity to rape and my
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parents were amazing. They said don't drink, don't do
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drugs, don't hang out with boys, they're bad and don't go out
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after 9. I did all those things.
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So, you know, I, I was like, I can't say anything because
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they're, they're going to get mad.
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My dad's going to yell at me. My mom's going to be
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disappointed. So I just pushed it down and put
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a smile on my face and just went back to, you know, the worst
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part is that I thought it was my fault because I did all of those
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things, you know, and today I work with a lot of young women
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and boys who I get to share that with them.
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I get to share, you know, the true definition of consent
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because like, you know, I remember you what kindergarten
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it was. Yes means yes and no means no.
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And I was like, bro, I have said yes so many times, but it but I
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meant no, right? I was just, I just felt like I
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could not speak up for myself or I couldn't stand my ground.
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I felt like, you know, what, if these people are going to get
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mad at me or they're not going to like me.
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I was just, I was crippled with fear and crippled with anxiety.
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So when I was about 15, I landed in my first treatment center.
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So my dad had told me, you know, I'm going to take you on a
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birthday trip. It was July, my birthday's in
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September. And he's like, we're going to
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drive down to Kentucky and we're going to see some friends or
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sorry, we're going to hang out with some friends in Kentucky.
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And then we're going to go to Georgia.
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And then we're going to land in, Oh my God, Disney World in
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Florida. And I was like, yeah, all right,
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you know, that seems pretty cool.
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So we drove down with my brother.
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Everyone's all like sad and upset.
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And I was like, we're going to Disney World.
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Like, this is amazing. Why is everyone so sad?
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You know, and, and he had to trick me because if he would
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have said I'm taking you to a treatment center in the States,
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I would have bolted, right? So we got there, you know,
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everyone's miserable. We end up in Clayton, GA, the
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bottom of the Appalachian Mountains.
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We stay the night. On the next morning, my dad
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said, you know, pack your bags, We're going to go in 5 minutes.
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And then two transporters come and pick me up.
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And I bolted across the freeway. And there's nothing like you
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just look both sides and it's just flat, right?
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And I just remember feeling like, how could you do this to
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me? Like what's even happening?
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I had no idea what was going on. I knew that what was happening
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in my life at that time because, you know, addiction is very
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progressive, as we know. So, you know, 1415 years old,
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I'm selling my body in Parkdale for this illness, right?
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I couldn't go a certain amount of time without putting
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something into my body. And it was, it was awful.
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So I didn't like what I was doing.
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I didn't necessarily enjoy the people I was hanging out with,
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but I felt like you liked me better.
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I felt like you thought I was prettier.
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My idea was of love was if you had sex with me, it meant you
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loved me, and if you didn't, there was something wrong with
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me. So all of my behaviors, the way
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that I was acting, the people I was hanging out with, I had no
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business hanging out with. But it all just felt better, you
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know, if you were like, hey, Caitlin, what do you want to do?
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I'd be like, I don't know, what do you want to do?
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Because again, God forbid I say, you know what, let's chill out
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and watch a horror movie. And you're like, that's stupid.
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Let's go out and do something fun.
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I was so crippled with fear on how people would view me and see
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me and judge me. Like I was that kid in class
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that couldn't raise their hand because I was so scared of
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saying the wrong thing. I was so scared of looking
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stupid or looking dumb and everyone pointing at me and
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laughing. I just had no, I had no self
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worth and no self esteem. So you know, I get to this.
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It was like a wilderness detox program.
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I'm pretty, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's shut down
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now for. A good reason it's.
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Like, you know, you're coming down and like you got bugs and
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you're twitching and itchy and all that stuff.
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Like we were in the wilderness. So like I'm like, are the
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spiders there? Are they not?
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Like it was terrible, but I was there for about 8 weeks and
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again, I have like, I couldn't understand and why I was there.
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Like really, I knew that OK, I'm using drugs.
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I'm 15. It's you know, but everybody I
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was hanging out with was doing that.
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So it felt normal. It felt better, felt better than
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being alone. It felt better than, you know,
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anything else because I wasn't getting what I needed otherwise.
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So it had to come from other people.
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And those were the people that were were giving it to me.
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The drugs were giving it to me. So I end up completing the eight
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week program and they're like, yeah, you're graduating.
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This is great. And I was like in my head
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thinking about OK, I'm gonna go back to my boyfriend.
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I'm gonna dye my hair. I'm gonna like, it was just so
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superficial. And I just couldn't wait to get
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back home so I could start doing drugs again, start smoking
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cigarettes again, go back to these people.
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What did I miss? I have like the biggest FOMO
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ever, right? I'm like, I need to know what's
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going on at all times. And they're like, no, you're not
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going home. You're going to a, call it like
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a therapeutic boarding school, like a residential treatment
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program in Utah. I dropped out of school in grade
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10. I had no idea where Utah was.
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And so it was a nine to 12 month program.
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I was there for two years and nine months.
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So it was one of those programs that got shut down for abuse,
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the troubled teen centers. And it was, it was awful.
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Like I went in with a certain amount of trauma and I left with
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way more trauma. You know, again, like, I don't
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remember learning in school how to communicate, how to talk
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about feelings, you know, what's OK, what's not Like I don't
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remember learning these skills. So I just kind of created my own
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way of shutting down, right? Things got really hard.
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I would shut down, things would be too painful.
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I'd go get high. And that's what happened.
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And I remember sitting in a therapy session with my dad and
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my therapist and back then it was just speakerphone and I had
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said I want to kill myself. And I have no idea where that
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came from because I didn't know feelings.
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I don't think I learned my feelings until I got sober at
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26. I thought if you smiled, you
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were happy. If you cried, you were sad and
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you yelled you were mad. But it's way more complex than
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that. And my therapist's reaction was
11:17
to go into his bag and grab his gun and throw it at me and say,
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why don't you kill yourself? And my dad's on the phone.
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And when I told him what happened, you know, he said,
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when are you going to stop lying?
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Because my track record, right, I'm a liar.
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It just happens. And, you know, that's pretty out
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there. That's pretty wild.
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But I just remember in that moment feeling like I don't even
11:40
know where those words came from, but my life felt so hard
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that my solution was to kill myself, that my feelings are too
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strong, things seem way too complex, that I need to die.
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There's just got to be no other way.
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And then I was put on what was called reflection.
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So you weren't allowed to talk, You had to wear hospital scrubs,
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sit on the floor. We were on a number system.
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So number one is I have to go to the bathroom.
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Number 2 is I want a drink of water, etcetera.
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And I didn't talk for an entire year.
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I was forced to sit on the ground.
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They would put our mattress in the doorway so that they could
12:18
watch us sleep at night. They would walk by and kick the
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mattress like it was just a it was in the best place.
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And I somehow graduated this program after almost three years
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of being there. So I was about 18 years old.
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I came home and I kind of felt different, Like I felt like, OK,
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I've been sober. I don't smoke cigarettes
12:42
anymore. I graduated high school there.
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I felt almost like maybe I could live my life.
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I got accepted into, at that time, Ryerson University for
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psychology. And I kind of felt smart, you
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know, like, look at me. I dropped out of school in grade
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10. But now I'm accepted into
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university. And when I was a kid, before I
13:05
had started kindergarten, I don't know why I remember this.
13:08
I'd asked my dad, how do you make friends?
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And he said, you put your hand out and you introduce yourself.
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You say, hi, my name is Caitlin. Do you want to be my friend?
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And so when I started university, I was like, fuck,
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you know, like, how do you make friends, right?
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Because I'm like back in Toronto, I have no friends
13:28
anymore. I'm again like that scared
13:31
little girl of not being able to raise her hand in a classroom of
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30. I'm now in a classroom of 200.
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So, you know, the kids sitting around me, I was like, hey guys,
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how are you? Like, do you want to be my
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friend? Like, should we start a study
13:42
group? And they just like dead ass
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looked me in the face and we're like, we already have 1.
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And I was like, you know, like, it's just that feeling of like
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abandonment and not being a part of and just really feeling
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judged and like I'm not good enough.
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Everything came flooding back. And, you know, I hadn't, I
14:03
should just back up. So when I was in this center,
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they told me like, you know, don't talk to your mom.
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She's really toxic, really unhealthy.
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We smoked weed together a couple times when I was like 1415.
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Not the best thing, but like, not the worst thing.
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My mother was, you know, she was unwell herself.
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She had a lot going on. And at that time, like, they're
14:23
like, what do you do? Like there wasn't help for her.
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You know, when I was 12, she tried to take her own life.
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And that was her solution. Again, she had four kids.
14:31
My parents had divorced and she had a lot going on.
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And like, where do you reach out for help?
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Because like, we're just learning that today, you know,
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and this is we're going back 30 years ago.
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I know I'm only like 18 now but. I thought you meant a story.
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Oh my. God no, that makes sense.
14:51
That part of. What a donkey, right over my
14:55
head. Now I just like totally effed
14:57
where I was you're. Not 18.
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Right. Double, unfortunately so.
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So, yeah. So I had told her, you know,
15:07
like, you're unhealthy, I can't talk to you.
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And meanwhile, I was the one sitting in a residential
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treatment center at 16 years old.
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How much credibility there? And you know what?
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She just looked at me and she said, I understand.
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And when I got out of the center, I remember I was like,
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it was like Christmas time. I was 19.
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My birthday is in September. So I remember calling her
15:31
because I was like, why don't we talk?
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Like it just I had been so brainwashed in this place and so
15:36
like it just didn't even make sense.
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And I remember I called her and my aunt had actually called me
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because she missed the call. And she said your mom just left.
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She's rushing home to come and call you.
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She was so excited that you called and she called me and it
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was like fireworks went off. It was like I had my mom back,
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you know, and I always say that she wasn't the best mom, but she
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was the most amazing friend. I had everything I needed,
16:01
everything I wanted, you know, she did the best with with what
16:05
she had. And I just think that, you know,
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she also needed help and she didn't know where to go and she
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didn't, you know, I didn't know how to ask for help.
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And I feel like, you know, she also had that.
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I'm, I'm half my dad and half my mom.
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So, you know, and the first time that we got together, she had
16:27
actually told me that she had cancer and nine months later she
16:30
passed away. So all of those feelings when I
16:33
was younger, they just came flooding back and again, I don't
16:38
know how to communicate. I don't know how to tell you
16:40
what's going on. I don't know how to ask for
16:42
help. I don't know how to say, I'm in
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so much pain right now. Can you help me?
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Can you take me to a meeting? Like, you know what I mean?
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I, I, I didn't have those skills because in this center we were
16:53
just kind of locked up. You know, I had like sobered up,
16:57
but aside from that, there were no new coping skills.
17:02
So I remembered what worked, and that was drugs and alcohol.
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So, you know, I'm, I'm in university, I drop out because,
17:11
you know, I had five courses and then I had four and then three
17:14
and then two and then one. And then I failed the only one
17:16
that I was taking because again, I didn't feel a part of, I felt
17:19
like people were judging me. Nobody wanted to be my friend
17:21
when I extended my hand and was brave and, you know, reached
17:25
out. And so I ended up dropping out
17:29
and I was working in this French Cafe and it was great.
17:33
But again, I started drinking and you know, we know how that
17:36
goes, right? That job went, you know, turned
17:40
into a cafe and then it was a restaurant and then it was a
17:42
supper club and then it was a bar and then it was a nightclub.
17:45
And then I'm working massage and then I'm full blown doing sex
17:48
work again. Because, you know, I have $1000
17:51
a day habit. I can't go 5 minutes without
17:53
putting something into my body. And like, what job can you work,
17:57
right? I, I was a disaster from 20
18:01
until 26. It was awful.
18:04
You know, I was in one relationship after the next that
18:08
just, you know, like I mentioned earlier, my idea of love is if
18:12
you had sex with me, it meant that you loved me.
18:13
And if you didn't, there was something wrong with me.
18:16
You know, So I'm, I'm looking in all the wrong places and I'm
18:19
finding people that it didn't matter how you treated me.
18:22
If you said I love you, that filled me.
18:25
That was enough for me, you know, and my addiction just
18:30
skyrocketed. And, you know, I got engaged.
18:33
I think I was about 21. And he was really abusive.
18:37
You know, he used to beat the crap out of me.
18:39
And then he would start to cry and be like, I'm so sorry.
18:42
I love you. And I would say he's sorry, you
18:45
know, he loves me because I was so broken.
18:49
I felt so empty inside that I needed you to tell me I was
18:53
pretty. I needed you to tell me I was
18:55
good enough because I didn't know how to do those things for
18:57
myself. So even though this person was
19:00
abusing me physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, it was
19:04
still better than being alone, you know?
19:07
And, and we get high and then we'd forget about everything and
19:10
then it would run out and we'd fight, you know, and I, I went
19:18
with his family on this camping trip way up north.
19:23
And, you know, we were out looking for for drugs because
19:26
that's what you do on a camping trip.
19:28
You know, it was like a party campsite out of.
19:30
Time they got here somewhere. Polish camping site and you
19:33
know, we're like, we'll split up and we'll go to fucking find
19:37
some dope. Right.
19:38
Yeah, So I just remember, you know, we're drinking and, you
19:43
know, we're they're getting pretty hammered.
19:44
It's like the middle of the afternoon.
19:47
And I asked these guys and they're like, you know, here,
19:49
here's a drink. And I remember taking that
19:53
drink. And then I don't remember
19:54
anything after that. I remember waking up in a tent
19:57
and, you know, not to go into detail, but there were several
20:01
males doing things. And again, like, how did this
20:05
happen? You know, I need something to
20:09
make me feel better and look at the position that I'm in and.
20:13
And then I was knocked out again and I came back and I had no
20:15
clothes on and I was just like so ashamed and so scared and had
20:19
no idea where I was. It was night time.
20:21
I woke up, I got out of this tent and I somehow found our
20:26
tent and he was sleeping, you know, he, my, my fiance was just
20:32
sleeping in the tent. And I remember like shaking him,
20:34
waking him up. I'm like, you know, I was just
20:36
right. You know, like all this stuff
20:37
just happened and I'm scared and, and he beat me up so badly
20:42
and said, you know, he called me terrible names and I, I ended up
20:49
in the hospital and I just remember, you know, a couple of
20:54
days after that I called my dad and I'm like, you know, I really
20:56
need help. I went to go live with him and I
21:01
think it was maybe like 2 weeks and I go back right because
21:05
we've sobered up. He's really sorry.
21:08
We go to a meeting, you know, like things calm down and it's
21:12
never going to happen again because he's sorry and he loves
21:15
me and it happened again, right? And it's, it's so hard because
21:21
even today, like I, I work, I work with people like myself
21:25
and, and different and it's the same thing.
21:28
And they say what's wrong with me and I say nothing, there's
21:32
nothing wrong with you, you know, it's just that feeling
21:36
inside that you're never going to find someone else or you're
21:40
never good enough. You're never going to be good
21:43
enough. I was afraid of what if I'll
21:46
never make it, I'm stupid, I'm not good enough.
21:50
I have 0 self esteem and self worth.
21:52
Even today I struggle, you know, like it's not like those
21:55
vulnerabilities just disappear and we're cured it, you know, we
21:59
work on it. But I always thought there was
22:02
something wrong with me, right? And so I put myself in that
22:05
position, not on purpose, but you know, the next one comes
22:09
around and the same thing happens.
22:11
And you know, addiction doesn't really help.
22:16
I was about 24 years old. I met.
22:19
So we we separated. He ended up leaving me and 24
22:23
years old, I meet the love of my life.
22:26
This guy who you know, I've said it a couple times already, but
22:30
my idea of love is if you had sex with me and meant that you
22:33
love me and if you didn't, there was something wrong with me.
22:35
This person, you know, I ended up in a trap house in
22:38
Scarborough, you know, trying to do what I had to do to get what
22:43
I needed to get. And I have a smile on my face
22:46
and I'm, you know, looking cute, but I'm dying.
22:49
I look like I'm dying. But I feel like the smile just
22:53
kind of shows you that I'm OK. But inside, I can't wait till I
22:58
can leave. I can't wait till I can get out
23:00
of there so I can be alone. And this guy walks in and he's
23:04
like, you know, takes one look at me and he's like, what are
23:06
you doing here? And he brings me into his room
23:09
and he starts talking to me and he's making eye contact.
23:12
And I'm so uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but
23:14
certain people that make eye contact, I'm like, you know, I
23:17
didn't want to look at people. I didn't want you to look at me.
23:20
I would talk and I would look at the ground.
23:21
That was a. Hard thing to do, right?
23:23
And I just remember him asking me all of these questions and it
23:29
just felt so amazing. I felt so special, like no one
23:34
wanted to be around me. I didn't have my family in my
23:37
life. You know, I have three brothers
23:39
and, and my dad and they had all, you know, cut me off
23:41
because it was, it was a lot, right?
23:43
Like I'm what do you do? Like, I don't think again,
23:46
there's no handbook. There's.
23:48
No template. You know, I was their only
23:49
sister. I'm my dad's only daughter and
23:52
like to see what's happening is a lot.
23:55
So, you know, we talked for a couple hours and, you know, he's
23:59
giving me free drugs. He's a drug dealer, which was
24:01
amazing, right? Like jackpot.
24:04
And he said, can I drive you home?
24:08
And I was like, what? Like, I don't you don't want
24:10
anything from me. And then I started to feel
24:12
really uncomfortable because I wasn't used to that.
24:16
I was used to doing things I didn't want to do to get what I
24:19
had to get. And he gave it to me for free.
24:21
These. Transactions.
24:23
Almost. Yeah, exactly.
24:24
And he dropped me off at home, gave me his number and he's
24:28
like, call me anytime. And I was like, what just
24:31
happened, you know, and I went into work and then I missed work
24:36
and then I got fired because you got to show up to keep your job.
24:40
Yeah, I was a server at this time and I was just high as a
24:42
kite all the time and. And I got fired.
24:46
And so I called him and, you know, we had seen each other for
24:49
a couple weeks. So obviously, you know, we're in
24:51
a relationship and. You know that.
24:54
Right. Yeah, Yeah, We've been dated
24:56
twice. You're going to move in, But you
24:59
know, he introduced me to his family.
25:01
I met his kid, you know, I met his friends.
25:04
He would take me on his ride alongs when he sold drugs.
25:06
Like I I felt part of the crew. I felt cool.
25:09
I felt a part of, you know, and, and he, like, sussed out all of
25:15
my vulnerabilities. He was like, what, You know,
25:17
he's checking all the boxes. And I told him, like, you know,
25:21
I just lost my job. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
25:23
And he says, you know what? We're gonna go on a trip.
25:25
I'm gonna take you somewhere. And I don't know if you've been
25:27
to Calgary in January, but it's not very fun.
25:30
And I was like, we're gonna go to the Bahamas.
25:32
We're gonna go, you know, California.
25:35
Yeah. Fuck Disney World.
25:36
Never. However, when I did graduate
25:39
that treatment center when I was 18, my friend and I, we
25:42
graduated 2 days apart. We drove out to Disneyland, we
25:46
did a whole road trip. It was epic.
25:50
But anyways, fuck Disney World. So we go to Cal.
25:53
So I'm like, all right, whatever.
25:55
Like Calgary. Yeah, are.
25:56
There drugs. Are there gonna be drugs there?
25:58
So. Yeah, obviously.
26:00
And so he's like, you know, my friend is gonna come.
26:03
And I was like, all right, whatever.
26:05
And I'd met him before. So I'm driving with these two
26:08
guys. We're driving to Calgary.
26:12
So we get pulled over in marathon ON middle of no.
26:18
Idea where that is? Yeah, yeah.
26:20
It's like close to Manitoba. It's close to the border and we
26:24
get pulled over. We're going like 20 kilometers
26:26
in a BMW with no winter tires with like weed smoke billowing
26:30
out the window. So the officer's like, you know,
26:33
asking routine questions. He takes like 2 steps backwards
26:36
and he goes, you guys are under arrest.
26:40
I'm so scared. Like I was always that person
26:43
that was afraid of law enforcement because I was like,
26:45
ah, no, like, you know, I don't want to get in trouble.
26:48
Like just so afraid. And so anyways, you know, he
26:53
takes the two and he puts them in the same car and then he
26:56
comes back and he starts talking to me.
27:00
We get brought back to the station and I was so afraid
27:04
because I was like, I've never been in the situation.
27:06
Like, what do I do? I'm in the middle of nowhere.
27:08
I got really sick If I don't use, I don't know what's going
27:11
to happen. And and so he brings me in for
27:14
questioning and he's like, you know, who are these guys you're
27:16
with? And I said, well, my boyfriend
27:17
and his friend and he said, what's your boyfriend's name?
27:20
I said, Mikey, They were always Mikey, right?
27:23
And and he goes, that's not his name.
27:25
And then he told me his name and inside that feeling that I used
27:31
to call my throw up feeling right today I know it's fear,
27:33
anxiety, just I'm scared. I I was shocked and I'm like,
27:41
oh, OK, right. Smile just brushed off like, oh,
27:44
he gave me a fake name. Who cares?
27:46
You know when he said they said that you were just some stripper
27:50
they picked up who needed a ride.
27:53
And so I'm now terrified. And yeah, anyways, the his
28:00
friend took the charges. I later found out that Mikey was
28:05
wanted on a whole slew of charges like kidnapping, guns,
28:09
drought, like just some bad stuff he was facing like being
28:13
deported. But they let him go.
28:15
Our legal system is. Good lawyer, you're good.
28:19
Yeah. And so they let him go.
28:22
They let us all go because his friend took the charges.
28:24
Anyways, we get into his car and he takes one look at me and he
28:27
says you're going to have to work for me now.
28:29
Now I realized today that that was his, like that, that's what
28:34
he wanted the whole time. Like that was obviously the
28:37
objective. We're going to take her to
28:38
Calgary, we're going to traffic her, whatever.
28:41
But this worked in his favor, you know, because I said you're
28:44
right, it's my fault. He's like the drugs.
28:47
If you weren't an addict, like I wouldn't have to bring drugs.
28:50
He was a drug dealer, right? But I felt like you're right.
28:54
This is my fault. This is all my fault.
28:56
I'll do whatever you want. And I said yes.
28:58
And I talk a lot about consent because this was under
29:02
manipulation. This was what he wanted the
29:04
entire time. That was the purpose of the
29:06
trip. So I said yes, not understanding
29:10
that right. And so when we got to Calgary.
29:14
Sorry, I was going to ask you about that.
29:15
Can you explain consent a little bit better?
29:17
Because I think people need to know like, what what does, what
29:20
does consent look like to you and what doesn't it look like?
29:22
So there's like a lot of really cool videos on consent that I do
29:26
a lot of like trainings and seminars and stuff in the
29:29
community. And I always show a few
29:32
different videos because they're really child friendly.
29:35
And I think it's really simple. Like if I was to say, let's go
29:38
on a bike ride and you're like cool.
29:40
Like what do you think of? Think like we're just going to
29:42
go stroll down the street on our bicycles, but I take you up to
29:45
the Rockies and it's crazy. Like, did you sign up for that?
29:49
No, because you're thinking like, I was just going to go for
29:52
a little bike ride, right? Like around the neighborhood.
29:55
So like, consent needs to be very clear.
29:58
What am I saying yes to? And if that changes, you need to
30:03
let me know. And then I have to provide
30:05
consent again. You cannot be under the
30:08
influence. You can't provide consent under
30:10
the influence. If someone's manipulated you,
30:13
that's dishonest, right? So that doesn't actually, it's
30:16
not accurate consent. But we believe because I said
30:20
yes, if I consented and it's all my fault, you know, if you're
30:26
having sex with somebody and you know you're doing one thing and
30:30
then they start to do something else and you say no, that means
30:34
no, right? You have to ask every single
30:37
time. Just because I slept with you
30:38
yesterday doesn't mean I'm going to sleep with you today.
30:41
Consent needs to be clear, concise, and it has to be and
30:44
coherent. Like yes, not a all right,
30:47
right, like. A movement or exactly?
30:50
Yeah, and I think we get so afraid and uncomfortable that
30:53
we're like, OK, right. Like that's not consent.
30:56
You were it's under manipulation or you're being pressured.
30:59
No, like we need to be teaching our kids that it's OK to say no
31:04
if you don't want to fucking go sit on Uncle Jack's lap or give,
31:07
you know, your grandpa a kiss. If the kids like, no, I'm
31:10
uncomfortable. OK, perfect.
31:13
Don't force them to go do something they don't want to do.
31:15
It's not fair. And I remember right, like
31:18
again, when I was younger, it's a different time than it is
31:21
today. But it was like, no, you have to
31:22
go and hug your aunt. You have to go and do this.
31:25
And I was so uncomfortable. I wanted to throw up.
31:28
I did not want to do that. We have to like, we, we have to
31:32
allow our kids to actually say yes or no within reason.
31:36
You know, if they're like, Nah, I don't want to eat my
31:37
vegetables, well, unfortunately you're going to have to eat your
31:40
vegetables. But, you know, I think that we
31:43
take that power a lot and we make the decision for people and
31:47
that's not OK. We have to allow people to have
31:50
their own power to make their own decisions.
31:54
And we need to be teaching. It's like when we're in school
31:58
teaching, that is the most important thing.
32:01
It's OK to not be OK. Why?
32:04
Because like, I don't need to give you an explanation why I'm
32:07
having a bad day. I go into work sometimes and I'm
32:10
like, I'm not feeling the greatest.
32:11
I'm going to do my best. But I'm I'm I'm I might need a
32:15
little bit of support. 10 years ago, I wouldn't have done that.
32:18
I probably wouldn't have showed up or I would have needed drugs
32:21
or alcohol just to like Get Me Out of the house or out of bed.
32:25
But like we got so afraid to ask for that support or say I'm
32:31
actually not doing so great, right?
32:32
Like I'm just celebrated 10 years not that long ago and I
32:36
still say I'm I call, you know, some friends, whoever, my
32:40
sponsor, whatever. And I'm like, I don't feel good,
32:44
right? I look in the mirror and I don't
32:45
like what I see. That's pretty normal.
32:48
Like I got a bucket load of trauma.
32:49
It doesn't just like disappear and I'm like, cured, you know,
32:54
the same vulnerabilities that I had that made me more
32:58
susceptible to becoming an addict, alcoholic, whatever, you
33:02
know, to being in precarious situations, to being exploited
33:05
and trafficked. Those vulnerabilities are are
33:08
still in me. They're still there.
33:11
But I wake up, I look in the mirror and I say, OK, I don't
33:13
like what I see. However, that's OK.
33:16
I'm going to still go on with my day.
33:18
I'm still going to show up to work.
33:19
Or you know what, if I have to take a day off, then all right,
33:22
I take a day off. But I don't cope the same way
33:25
because I want other people to see that it's actually all right
33:29
to not be your best, you know, I think.
33:34
I think it's just, yeah, I just, I don't like it.
33:36
It's fake. And I wish people would speak up
33:39
more so that we could get rid of that stigma that like, you know,
33:42
I used to smile all the time when I was really depressed and
33:45
I wanted to kill myself. I tried to take my own life when
33:48
I was 26, right before I got sober, you know, because I went
33:55
and I gave a police statement and he did all of those things.
33:58
And I walked out of that police station and I felt so guilty.
34:04
I was like, holy shit, I betrayed these people that took
34:07
such good care of me. You know, I betrayed like I'm a
34:10
rat. I'm like all of these things.
34:13
And I just pushed it down inside and I swallowed those feelings
34:16
and I put a smile on my face and I pretended like everything was
34:19
OK. And I lasted 86 days sober.
34:22
And then I tried to kill myself and I ended up in a 5 point
34:25
restraint with two officers guarding my door.
34:28
And all I could think about was it didn't work right.
34:31
Like like it's pretty bad when you can't even kill yourself,
34:38
you know, like I should be dead so many times.
34:41
Like I'm on board time right now, like plus tax.
34:45
But like it just it was so sad. Like you wake up and I was dead.
34:51
And now I'm not like, now I'm not like it's just so
34:54
frustrating because those feelings, like I could have
34:57
called my sponsor. I could have called a friend and
34:59
been like, you know, everyone's like, how are you?
35:01
And I'm like, yeah, I'm great. I'm fine.
35:03
But inside I'm dying. Inside I am too afraid to tell
35:08
you that I'm not OK because I'm worried about what you're going
35:11
to think about me because I went to treatment and I graduated the
35:15
program and now I'm supposed to be OK.
35:17
You know, I just went through a separation and it's, you know,
35:21
it's terrible. It's really awful, but today,
35:24
like I have the tools and the skills to like not pick up and
35:29
be sad and allow myself that privilege to be sad because
35:33
again, I'm on board time and I know that today is a gift and it
35:38
sucks and it's so cliche, but it's the truth.
35:41
You know, I know that there's nothing that's going to be good
35:46
that comes from me picking up or me, you know, going out and be
35:50
in trafficked together, whatever it is like, that's not who I am
35:54
today. I believe that everything I went
35:56
through wasn't for nothing. I think, you know, it's
35:59
literally how I got my job, how I do what I do today, how I
36:03
support others. You know, I do a lot of service
36:07
and I just. Yeah, yeah.
36:11
I always say that too. Is like, you never know when
36:14
this might you might be of service to somebody else that's
36:17
been through it, right? I went to treatment with a guy
36:20
that, you know, had had really bad, you know, child molestation
36:24
in his, in his story. And I remember just like he was
36:27
so angry and one day, and I'm not saying that I I fixed him or
36:31
helped him or anything like that, but I mentioned that
36:33
because there's a part in our literature that says like
36:36
nothing happens in in God's world by mistake.
36:39
And I was like, what if man? Like what if, just what if, what
36:41
if one day you can help someone else that's been through it,
36:45
like simple as that, right? And something, I saw something
36:49
kind of shift in his eyes. He's like, I never thought of it
36:51
that way, right? And that's not to say that it
36:53
was warranted or that, you know, they, they're, they're off the
36:56
hook or anything like that, but forgiveness is a powerful thing,
36:59
right? And forgiveness is not for that
37:01
person that hurt you. It's for yourself, right?
37:04
I've learned so, so now we're, we're in Calgary, right?
37:08
And what happens after that like?
37:12
It was the worst month of my life, you know, when kind of
37:16
like earlier in my story when I shared, you know, I wasn't
37:19
alone. I was being beat up, but I
37:21
wasn't by myself. So I'm being forced to do things
37:25
I didn't want to do. You know, I'm seeing clients
37:29
around the clock. This is with Mikey, so like the
37:32
first. And, you know, we're moving from
37:35
hotel to hotel and I, I wanted to die again.
37:41
You know, that feeling of how did this happen?
37:44
Like everything was so good. And I remember thinking to
37:49
myself, OK, if I do one good thing, it's going to go back to
37:53
how it was in the beginning. If I am extra good today, he's
37:57
going to tell me he loves me. Everything's going to be fine
37:59
and I won't have to do this anymore.
38:00
Or if I work so, so, so hard and make so much money for him, I
38:04
won't have to do this anymore. I made it all about like, me
38:10
having to be better and it wasn't my fault.
38:13
Like, you know, I didn't actually consent to that.
38:16
But I thought if I was better, it would get better.
38:21
And if I was extra good and I treated him so nice that he
38:27
would say, I love you. And he did right because he knew
38:30
that's what I needed. So at the end of the day, he
38:33
would say I love you and I'm so proud of you.
38:37
And all I wanted was for someone to be proud of me because I was
38:41
a disaster. You know, Again, I needed you to
38:46
tell me I was pretty and I needed to tell you.
38:48
I needed you to tell me I was good enough because I couldn't
38:51
do those things for myself. So we're there for about a
38:54
month. It was awful.
38:56
It was awful. There was a lot of abuse, a lot
38:58
of just like manipulation, terrible situations.
39:03
I remember telling him, you know, I need to get back, my
39:08
mom's birthday is coming up, I need to see my family.
39:11
And I hadn't really told him too much about that stuff.
39:16
And I think I just like annoyed him to the point he was like,
39:18
whatever, fine, we'll go back, but we're coming back here.
39:21
And I said absolutely. He kept all the money.
39:24
I didn't keep anything. And we drove back.
39:28
And I remember I had this like 2 bedroom apartment in
39:32
Scarborough. It was empty.
39:34
There was a foam mattress in the living room and like a sheet on
39:37
the window. I had bags of clothes in the
39:40
corner. But like I didn't have a bed.
39:42
The rooms were empty, everything.
39:44
There was nothing, There was no plates, nothing.
39:48
So we get back, he drops me off and I think I had like a little
39:52
laptop or I don't know where I was at this time, but I was
39:56
watching CP 24 and I see his name and his face come up and
40:01
he's wanted for kidnapping drugs, like so many things.
40:05
And I was like, I just went across the country with this
40:07
guy, you know, like, holy crap. What do you think I did?
40:12
I called him and I was like, I'll hide you in my apartment,
40:15
right? Because again, if I do one more
40:17
thing, he's going to love me again.
40:19
If I do one more thing, he's going to be proud of me.
40:23
If I do one more thing, it's going to go back to how it was
40:25
in the beginning when he was really nice to me and you know,
40:29
he would often speak in another language.
40:32
So he was Persian and he would speak and I wouldn't understand.
40:37
And he knew that I felt left out, right?
40:38
So he would do it on purpose because being a part of was so
40:42
important to me. I wanted to fit in.
40:45
I needed everyone to like me. 99 people could be like, I love
40:48
Caitlin, she's the coolest, which I am.
40:51
I'm so cool. And there could be one person
40:54
that's like, Nah, not even I hate her, but like Nah,
40:57
whatever. And I am so focused on that one
41:00
person that doesn't like me. What's wrong with me?
41:02
Why am I not good enough? What did I do?
41:04
Is it something I did like? I just, it's so hard.
41:09
I get so dead set and I focus that one thing, but I have 99
41:13
people that just adore me, you know?
41:16
And so he came to my apartment and then he ended up turning
41:21
himself in and then he got released again.
41:23
I don't get our legal system. But I didn't hear from him after
41:26
that. He kind of went into hiding, I
41:27
guess. And I had just started like
41:36
posting my own ads on what was then Backpage because I was
41:40
like, well, I know what the trauma is.
41:42
I know how to navigate this. I know what it's like.
41:44
I know what to do. So I'm going to do it and I'm
41:46
going to keep all my money again.
41:49
I had a really bad drug habit, you know, and I, I couldn't stop
41:53
even if I wanted to. Like it just didn't know how,
41:57
you know, my sponsor will often say like, you could hook me up
42:00
to a lie detector test and I would have passed if you like.
42:03
I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I'm never going to do that
42:05
again. I did not want to do it anymore,
42:08
but I had to. My feet were going to my
42:10
dealer's house. My feet were going to the LCBO
42:12
like. Before you had.
42:13
Noticed. Exactly.
42:15
And so I start posting my own ads and, you know, it just,
42:20
it's, it's trauma, right? Like it doesn't get better.
42:24
It only gets worse. And it got worse.
42:25
It got a lot worse. You know, I was held hostage in
42:29
this guy's house and it just went from bad to worse to worse
42:32
to worse. And, you know, I had forgotten
42:36
that I called Renaissance to get into treatment because it's like
42:39
a, you know, 5000 day wait because I had no money.
42:43
So, you know, like, I'm broke. And they called me and they were
42:46
like, hey, just reminding you of your bed day in September,
42:49
whatever. And it was 2014 and I was like,
42:53
Oh my God, I forgot. And so I told this guy that I
42:56
was with who was like holding me hostage.
42:58
And it was terrible situation. A lot of abuse, a lot of just
43:01
terrible, terrible stuff. And I was like, I got to go to
43:05
treatment. Like I got to go.
43:07
And he's like, yeah, you're really messed up, you got to go,
43:09
I'll let you go. So he let me go to treatment and
43:13
I walked in and they're like, you know, you got to be 72 hours
43:16
sober, yadda, yadda, yadda. Do you know where the fuck I
43:19
just came from? I.
43:21
Could get sober for three days, I wouldn't need to be here like
43:25
I wouldn't need to be here. I know I never understood.
43:28
That's how bad I am. And so I showed up and I
43:34
remember the woman answering the door and she's like, you've been
43:36
sober for three days. And I was like, yeah, you know,
43:38
my eyes are going in different directions.
43:40
I'm a little, a little itchy, tweaky.
43:42
And she goes, all right, come on in.
43:45
She sits me down. And she's like, you know, when
43:47
was the last time you used? I said three days ago.
43:49
And she said, what did you use? And I was like, meth.
43:51
And she's like, you need 8 days. And I just remember thinking, I
43:58
can't do this, you know? And I told her, if you let me
44:01
leave, I'm going to die. And much like when I was in
44:04
Utah, when I said I wanted to come, I don't know where those
44:07
words came from. I had no idea.
44:09
I didn't want to be there. Who wants to be in treatment?
44:11
It's terrible. But but she said OK.
44:15
And she sent me to the detox down the street.
44:17
I was there for 8 days and it was awful.
44:21
It was horrendous. My like my bones were hurting.
44:24
I was thrilled. Like it was just, I mean, you
44:26
know, right, everyone knows what withdrawal it is.
44:28
So I didn't actually know that I was using heroin.
44:31
I was more of a like a cocaine, meth, like I don't really talk
44:35
about what I use because to me it's all the same, right?
44:37
Like I didn't like the way I felt.
44:39
So I used, I didn't like the way I looked.
44:41
I used, I didn't like the way I felt.
44:43
I had to change it. Whatever you know, shopping
44:46
people like, it's whatever however it is, right?
44:48
Gambling. The same.
44:49
So I had to get my blood taken and my doctor had actually
44:53
called me and he's like, I know that you were using this and
44:56
this. He's like, but now you're using
44:58
meth and heroin. And I was like, what?
45:00
I had no idea because this person had been giving me these
45:05
drugs and again, without my consent.
45:08
But you know, I didn't know and I was so sick and I had no idea
45:13
why I was 80 lbs. I'm like 5 foot eight.
45:17
I was about to die and I, yeah, so I go through this, this eight
45:25
day detox that was terrible. And then I went to treatment and
45:30
I completed the 21 days and then I stayed two extra days because
45:34
I didn't want to leave. I was like, please don't let me
45:36
leave. Like you got to let me stay here
45:37
forever. I don't want to go home.
45:40
And they're like, yeah, I know we need your bed.
45:41
Like, you know, someone else is like you.
45:44
They need this bed. So I graduated.
45:47
I left, and that's when I went to the police station.
45:49
So I'd actually had this officer that was in my life for I was a
45:52
frequent flyer, 41 division local, and I would show up in
45:58
all different forms. But I actually met this officer
46:03
because something had happened. I woke up in a ditch.
46:06
Someone found me in a ditch. I don't know what happened to
46:08
this day. And the police officer that was
46:11
signed was like, I'm not dealing with this girl.
46:13
You take her. And the guy that said, yes, his
46:16
name is Wayne Sergeant Howell. And he's still in my life today,
46:23
you know, like he just did a reading at one of my at my
46:25
medallion. And it's, it's so crazy because
46:29
if that officer had stayed on my case, like, I don't even know.
46:34
Like I remember Wayne calling me just to say hello, just to ask
46:37
me like, how are you? And I was like, I don't like
46:40
cops. Like cops are bad.
46:42
Like I'm a drug addict. I'm, you know, I'm doing all
46:44
this stuff. We don't like cops.
46:47
But he saw through that. Like he saw me as a as a human,
46:52
as a human being, as a person, you know, he knew what I was
46:56
doing, but he didn't judge me. He didn't arrest me.
46:58
He didn't, you know, he had, he would text me and say, have you
47:01
eaten today? Do you have cigarettes?
47:04
Like he would just do check insurance.
47:06
Like it costs absolutely nothing to just ask someone how they're
47:09
doing, you know, bring them a coffee and and we became
47:13
friends. And he's actually the reason
47:17
that I filed a police report. He knew everything that was
47:19
going on. And so when I went in there and
47:23
I was like, I want to press charges, he was like, all right.
47:26
And he brought in the HT unit, so human trafficking unit with
47:31
Toronto police. And I didn't even know.
47:33
I thought I had a shitty boyfriend that made me do
47:35
terrible things and he was just bad.
47:37
But that's not what happened, right?
47:39
And it was then that they explained to me like, you were
47:41
trafficked. And I was like, I'm like, no,
47:44
that doesn't happen here. Like happens like other
47:46
countries. World Countries.
47:48
And the reality is that it actually happens here.
47:52
Like for sure, you know, someone else that has been trafficked.
47:55
Like it happens in our backyards.
47:57
It's happening next door. It's happening in all the
47:59
hotels, all the motels, all the Airbnb.
48:02
But at that time, I was like, I got my information from like,
48:06
taken, you know, the movie Taken, Like, I didn't look like
48:09
that, right? I wasn't thrown into a van and
48:11
this guy saying that I love you and yeah, OK, he made me do bad
48:15
things. But, you know, at the end of the
48:16
day, he was there, you know, he was showing up for me.
48:20
He was filling those basic needs.
48:24
And after that, that's when I walked out of the police station
48:27
and I felt like, you know, because we had such a trauma
48:30
bond, me and my trafficker, I thought he was my boyfriend.
48:35
I felt like I betrayed him. I felt like I let him down.
48:39
And I held on to that. I didn't tell my sponsor.
48:41
I didn't tell anyone in my life. And I lasted 86 days sober.
48:45
And that's when I tried to take my own life.
48:48
And yeah, it was just, it was really brutal.
48:52
I think I was out. So that was, I don't even know
48:57
when that was January 2015. And then the last time I ever
49:01
picked up was April 29th, 2015. And, and it, you know, I've had
49:06
so many bottoms, I've overdosed, I've ended up in ditches, places
49:11
that I don't even know, right? And it was simple.
49:14
The guy, you know, my boyfriend at that time went through my bag
49:17
and was like, what is this? And I started to cry.
49:22
And it wasn't the I'll go to detox, I'll go to treatment,
49:24
I'll go to a meeting. Please don't leave me, right?
49:27
It was a genuine like I can't stop and he's like, I'm going to
49:31
leave and I'm like, I don't want you to leave, but what if I
49:34
can't ever stop? Like I was so afraid that I've
49:38
just felt like I was a failure and and for whatever reason, we
49:44
threw out my stuff. And April 30th I called my
49:49
sponsor. I don't know, I hadn't talked to
49:51
her in so long, but you know, I called her and I was like, I
49:53
need to go to a meeting and I think I was in bed for probably
49:57
like a month. I was so sick.
49:59
I was so depressed. But I just like went in full
50:06
force, you know, did stat like it just I did.
50:10
I did all the things that I was asked to do, like my sponsor, my
50:14
friends, my people could have been like, go do this, go stand
50:17
in the middle of Dundas Square naked and whatever.
50:21
And I would have done it because my way didn't work.
50:26
And I tried a lot of ways, you know, I tried harm reduction, I
50:29
tried everything and it just didn't work.
50:34
I had to just, like, give up and, and surrender.
50:37
And it was so scary because I thought, what if, again, what if
50:42
people don't like me, right? What if I'm no fun?
50:44
Like, how am I going to talk? How am I going to communicate
50:47
with people if I'm not under the influence?
50:50
Meanwhile, like, I would show up to meetings and I was like,
50:53
smoking meth in the bathroom in the church just so I could share
50:56
in the meeting, you know? And I was, yeah, like it.
51:01
Everything changed, you know, I hear people say a lot, you know,
51:06
I got sober and I got my life back.
51:08
I got sober and I got a life. I made genuine friends.
51:14
I, I got a job at Sally Beauty Supply and it was like the best
51:18
time ever. You know, I'm so happy I was
51:22
going to meetings everyday like they used to call my car the
51:24
druggie buggy because I would just throw all the newcomers and
51:27
then like, come on, I'll pick you up.
51:28
And then I dropped them all off. I was doing service left, right
51:32
and center because I didn't want to die.
51:35
And I had to write out my day because if I had five minutes
51:39
that were not accounted for, I would have, I would have went
51:42
out, you know, like it was that bad.
51:45
And I just did everything that my, my, you know, support system
51:48
told me to do. And I got therapy because, yeah,
51:51
I'm that person that has to get therapy because my life with
51:55
like, there's so much trauma and I still go to therapy, you know,
51:58
Like this stuff doesn't just go away.
52:01
It's. A daily thing.
52:02
Yeah, and I'm not, like, cured. I don't get cured, right?
52:06
Like, sometimes I start getting a little miserable and I start
52:09
getting really depressed because, you know, things
52:12
happen. I get triggered.
52:13
I'm human. But I remind myself that that's
52:16
OK, right? It's OK to be sad.
52:19
It's OK to miss people. I've experienced a lot of loss.
52:24
I've lost a lot of friends, family members to this disease.
52:28
You know, I lost one of my best friends in a in a snowmobiling
52:32
accident a few years ago. And like, I just, I really can't
52:36
come up with a reason to get high.
52:39
Like there's nothing bad enough to me for me to go get high.
52:47
My worst day is still better than my best day out there
52:51
because I'm so privileged. Like I'm, I'm alive, right?
52:56
Like borrowed time is borrowed time.
52:58
And I, you know, I would rather if I'm depressed, just be
53:02
depressed and get through it, then go get high and make me,
53:05
you know, get something to make me feel better because it's not
53:07
going to work right. I.
53:09
Have one problem and then I go and pick up and now I have two
53:11
problems. Exactly.
53:13
And then many more after that. I find it really interesting
53:16
that, you know, I'm, I just, I can't stop thinking about your
53:19
dad telling you to put your hand out and like say hi to people as
53:23
you were saying that. I was thinking like that is kind
53:26
of the key to getting sober in the beginning is like when you
53:28
go into a meeting or a room full of people is to do that, right?
53:32
And that's like the hardest thing to do, I found is like,
53:34
hey, I'm new. You know, people used to tell me
53:36
to do that. And to your point, yeah, like
53:38
I'm at a point now where I've relapsed.
53:41
You know, I've relapsed a lot, but I've I've relapsed like
53:45
there's three major ones that I can think of where I was.
53:47
I had to like AI didn't expect it.
53:50
It kind of came out of nowhere, right?
53:52
And not that it came out of nowhere, but it was like
53:54
momental. I don't know what I'm trying to
53:56
say. And to your point, it's like I,
54:00
I've surrounded myself now this time around.
54:03
So people always ask me, they're like, what's different?
54:05
Like what's different? You know, you've, you've had
54:07
eight years, you had another three months.
54:09
You went to three treatment centers.
54:10
What's different? I, I, I, I find that I have to
54:14
trick my brain into doing things I don't want to do, right.
54:18
This podcast is an example of that where it's like I
54:21
constantly sit here with the most awesome cool.
54:24
And you are cool, by the way. I know you know that.
54:26
But the most awesome people in recovery, right?
54:29
And it's like all those, this doesn't substitute my recovery
54:32
program. It's like it's another part of
54:34
my life where I have two hours today where I'm not in Anthony's
54:37
head. And to your point, like I have
54:39
to account for every minute. Yeah, I had to do that too.
54:41
Where it's like any, any minute my attic brain gets a hold of
54:44
me. I'm I'm thinking about how I'm
54:47
going to solve my problems with, you know, the quick way, right?
54:50
Because I forget what happens after I forget that I end up in
54:54
trap houses. I forget, you know, and so I
54:56
just, I found that really interesting.
55:00
How do you, so you were, do you talk about working with a lot of
55:03
people today that have been through how do you help people
55:09
break the cycle? Like that's like, how do you
55:11
break that cycle? It just it seems like such a
55:14
pattern thing, right? So I just meet people where
55:19
they're at, you know, it's, it's like we complicate everything.
55:27
I on top of being an addict, I'm a Virgo.
55:31
I'm like, just so I make everything so difficult and
55:35
complex and instead of just letting it be how it is so you
55:40
know where I get to work, I'm meeting people in the immediate
55:44
aftermath of a crime and specifically human trafficking.
55:49
And so they might still be being trafficked.
55:53
They might be not being trafficked anymore.
55:56
Maybe they're doing sex. Whatever it is, I don't meet
56:00
with them and say, you know what, you should probably stop
56:02
doing drugs if they're using. That's going to make you feel
56:06
like, first of all, it's not my job.
56:08
I couldn't control my own life. Why am I going to try and
56:10
control yours? The same thing with the folks I
56:12
sponsor, right? Like I, I am abstinent.
56:16
I believe in harm reduction. I really do personally, because
56:22
I needed harm reduction to get to where I am today.
56:25
And you know, if I don't practice harm reduction with
56:29
these folks and people think when I say harm reduction,
56:32
people instantly go needles safe and like, no, it's beyond that,
56:36
right? So if if I was to say I'm not
56:39
going to help you until you're sober and then this person
56:41
leaves or I'm not going to help you until you're housed, right?
56:45
And then they leave like how how are they going to get there?
56:48
They don't have those tools yet, right?
56:51
They're coming for help. They showed up.
56:53
That is like the most difficult thing and they've already been
56:56
through the worst. They've already been trafficked.
56:58
They've already done whatever, right?
57:00
So now they're here and they want that support.
57:03
And So what I do and my Co workers do, like that's what's
57:07
going to help them, right? That's what's going to help
57:10
decide, OK, am I, am I going to do this or am I not going to do
57:13
this? So I just try to build rapport.
57:15
I just try to say like, yeah, listen, what do you want?
57:18
What do you need from me? Like you're my boss, right?
57:20
Like I'm not here to tell you what to do.
57:22
You're the expert of your own life, not me.
57:26
I can present some options and say which one looks the best to
57:29
you right now, right? Maybe we work towards getting
57:33
you to a program, you know, maybe a outpatient program it
57:37
whatever. You know, I help people just
57:40
meet their basic needs. Like they, it's a basic human
57:43
right to have food, to have shelter, to have water, to have
57:46
clothing, to have tampons. Like these are things that we
57:51
need and it's a basic human right.
57:53
Why do I get them? And you shouldn't have them.
57:55
So I'm not going to sit here and tell my clients and the folks
57:58
that I work with and the people that I sponsor.
58:00
This is how you have to do it or else, right?
58:05
I choose to be abstinent today because that's what I need
58:09
because of this way of working with people.
58:11
And again, it's not for everyone.
58:13
I think everybody is different. The tough love.
58:16
I, I don't believe in that, you know, I don't believe in tough
58:18
love. I am, I think love can solve
58:21
everything. So me like shaking, right, like
58:24
putting my hand to shake. I, I'm a hugger today.
58:28
I think that, you know, we need connection and we need, again,
58:33
it's a, it's a basic human right to feel right.
58:37
And I work with so many people that have been sleeping on the
58:40
street or that have nowhere to go and they've had no human
58:44
interaction. And sometimes they say, you
58:47
know, can I have a hug? And I say, absolutely right, of
58:54
course I'll give you a hug. And, you know, not a lot of
58:58
people do that. And that's fine.
59:00
But that right there makes them feel like a human being, as they
59:06
should. We don't realize the things that
59:09
we take for granted. You know, I, I help all kinds of
59:13
people, but I believe in. So I used to live in Newmarket,
59:19
an example, I would take the GO train down to Union Station and
59:23
for a really long period of time I had to not go to Union Station
59:27
because it was such a trigger for me.
59:29
I'm a very sensitive and emotional person and I think
59:32
it's probably one of my best qualities, but it's really
59:35
painful sometimes because I see someone on the street and I
59:39
feel, I feel it and it consumes my life.
59:46
I'll sit with them and talk to them.
59:48
Male, female. Listen, we are all like, we all
59:53
bleed blood. Like we all, you know, like I'm
59:55
not going to go up and like give my number to all of these like
59:58
newcomers and stuff. But I really believe in showing
1:00:02
people that like, kindness heals love.
1:00:05
Heels so I sit with people and just have a conversation and all
1:00:09
you know, there was one guy he used to sit at a College Station
1:00:12
and I'm like, do you have resources?
1:00:13
Like do you know where to get food?
1:00:15
Like do you know where the drop in centers is?
1:00:16
And he said no, and I just wrote down some stuff and he said
1:00:20
thank you so much. No one's ever done this for me,
1:00:23
right? Like what I'm, I'm going to not
1:00:25
do that because he's a man, you know, like, yes, I have to
1:00:28
protect myself and whatever, but it just and befuddled at how
1:00:35
people act sometimes because you could even just walk by and
1:00:38
smile, you know? So yeah, I believe in harm
1:00:41
reduction because it's not my job to tell people what to do.
1:00:44
It's my job to show up and be kind because that's what people
1:00:46
did for me. You know, I got judged on the
1:00:50
street. I got judged for my actions and
1:00:52
behaviors and what I chose to do.
1:00:54
And then, you know what I was doing that I wasn't so much
1:00:57
choosing to do anymore. People judged me.
1:01:01
I don't judge people today. I love people and I pray every
1:01:07
single day that people get what I have plus tax right because
1:01:15
getting sober is not like you don't just get sober.
1:01:18
Like I'm not worried today about relapsing on drugs or alcohol.
1:01:23
I am worried about when I don't take care of myself that my head
1:01:26
goes to I want to die, I don't want to get high, that I know
1:01:31
that's not going to do anything for me.
1:01:32
And maybe if I stop working like my program whatever that could
1:01:35
change. I recognize that.
1:01:37
But for me, what's concerning is when I isolate myself and I want
1:01:40
to kill myself. That's what I have to work on
1:01:43
everyday, right? That like I wake up and I pray
1:01:47
and it's very basic. I want to be of service.
1:01:51
I want to be outside of myself. And anyways, I've gone on so
1:01:56
many tangents, but ultimately at work, I just meet people where
1:01:59
they're at, you know? I do it in my personal life.
1:02:02
I don't want to tell people what to do, right?
1:02:04
Who am I? Plus we don't listen to that,
1:02:07
right? Like I'm not receptive to you
1:02:08
telling me what to do. I'm it's attraction, not
1:02:10
promotion. It's one of my favorite, one of
1:02:12
my favorite. Senses in every aspect of your
1:02:14
life. Yeah.
1:02:16
You want what I have? Here's what I did exactly.
1:02:18
You can do it or not do it, you know it's up to.
1:02:21
You, I, I actually, I was with a client the other day and she
1:02:26
just graduated from a treatment center.
1:02:28
So excited. She was so excited.
1:02:30
We're sitting there and it was actually the day, it was the
1:02:33
same day as my 10 year medallion.
1:02:35
And you know, we're talking and I'm, you know, we're creating an
1:02:38
amazing plan and she's like, I just want to thank you so much
1:02:41
for everything you've done. And I'm like, girl, you did
1:02:43
this, right? Like I just helped, I just
1:02:45
helped bridge these little connections.
1:02:46
Like, that's what we do, right? And I was like, you know, I'm
1:02:51
really proud of you. And she goes, yeah, I got this
1:02:52
chip or whatever. And I was like, cool.
1:02:54
And, you know, I showed her mine.
1:02:56
And I don't always talk about my personal experience because I
1:02:58
don't want to take it off of them.
1:03:00
But there are moments where sharing and relating and showing
1:03:03
that we have lived experience is really beneficial.
1:03:07
And she looked at me and she said, you're 10 years sober.
1:03:10
And I said, yeah. And she's like, oh, my God.
1:03:14
And she started to cry. And I was like, you know, first
1:03:18
of like, oh, God, what's happening?
1:03:19
But she said, I can't believe that you are my worker, right?
1:03:23
That this universe placed us together.
1:03:27
Imagine if I told her when I first met her, this is what you
1:03:29
have to do. It blows my mind.
1:03:36
You know, I've gone to my clients medallions, I've been
1:03:39
asked to share, you know, like it's just, it's so simple.
1:03:43
It's so kind if we just stop talking and we just listen,
1:03:46
right? Yeah, beautiful.
1:03:52
Thank you so much, Caitlin. That was awesome.
1:03:55
I appreciate you. Why don't we close quickly with
1:03:59
this because I'm going to get kicked out of here soon, but I
1:04:01
really want I want to close with this.
1:04:04
If you could say something to someone struggling right now
1:04:10
with, you know, consent or manufactured consent or
1:04:16
manipulation or being sex trafficked even, or just maybe
1:04:20
just been, you know, abused, what would you say to that
1:04:23
person? There's not a lot that I can
1:04:35
say, but I guess you're not alone, which sucks, you know,
1:04:48
like because it doesn't help we feel alone.
1:04:54
What I wish someone had said to me was not, it wasn't words,
1:05:00
right? It was consistency.
1:05:02
So if there is people struggling, which there are, I'm
1:05:06
going to keep showing up. I'm going to keep waiting
1:05:12
because that's what people did for me, right?
1:05:15
People say a lot of words. The words don't help.
1:05:18
They're like cool for a minute, but we need consistency.
1:05:24
If someone is judging you, like delete them from your life.
1:05:30
If you feel like, you know, you're not being treated the way
1:05:34
that you should be treated, get rid of that person.
1:05:38
And it's Oh my God, this question always throws me
1:05:45
because there's a million things that you could say.
1:05:50
I just wanted someone to love me.
1:05:52
You know, I wanted people to show up for me and be genuine.
1:05:59
I remember hearing a speaker once say, because I, I came into
1:06:02
this program really young. They said you haven't done it
1:06:08
yet, but I did it for you so that you don't have to do it.
1:06:12
Do you know what I mean? Like you did this, this, and
1:06:15
this. OK, cool.
1:06:17
Why did this, this and this so that you don't have to do that.
1:06:20
And that just really resonated with me because I work with kids
1:06:23
that are like 16/17/18 sometimes.
1:06:26
And I'm like, I get it. I did that too.
1:06:29
And they're like, wait, what? And we have a really good
1:06:31
conversation, but if there are people that are really in a
1:06:36
place where they need to hear words right now, I love you.
1:06:40
You're not alone. It's OK to not be OK.
1:06:44
It's OK to say F you and get out of the situation you're in.
1:06:49
It's OK to reach out for help. It's OK to not have the answer.
1:06:52
It's OK to not know what's going on and be OK with that.
1:06:58
The only way that we change what's happening in the world as
1:07:02
a whole is with community. We can't do it alone.
1:07:06
I couldn't do it by myself. I still can't do it by myself.
1:07:10
We need to work together. And if I don't know what to do,
1:07:13
I'm going to call you and be like, hey, do you know what to
1:07:15
do to help this person? My sponsee will call me and I'll
1:07:19
be like, Oh my God, I have no idea how to answer this
1:07:21
question. Let me call you right back and
1:07:23
I'll call my sponsor like it's teamwork, but people feel like
1:07:28
they have to do with themselves. And you're not alone.
1:07:31
And I always close the same way when I speak.
1:07:33
And I'm going to say it now because it feels right.
1:07:35
If no one's told you they love you yet, today I do love.
1:07:39
That I love it. Thank you so much.
1:07:41
Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel
1:07:44
and like, share and subscribe for more content.
1:07:47
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
1:07:49
informational and motivational purposes only.
1:07:52
This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice,
1:07:56
addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is
1:07:59
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
1:08:02
physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional.
1:08:05
You are no longer alone.