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Tim Noakes: Why Modern Nutrition Is Failing Us · UK Column Radio

0:38
Speaker 1: A low carbohydrate, a low sugar diet seems to be
0:42
Speaker 1: the most beneficial to Why is that.
0:47
Speaker 2: Because it's the diet that humans evolved with. You know,
0:49
Speaker 2: I know we're going to global audience, But yesterday I
0:53
Speaker 2: saw a lovely slide that twenty two thousand years ago,
0:58
Speaker 2: all of Europe, most of Europe, and most of North
1:00
Speaker 2: America was under a kilometer of ice. So how could
1:06
Speaker 2: you grow cobs twenty two thousand years ago? You either
1:09
Speaker 2: ate something else or you diet. And the reality is
1:12
Speaker 2: that for the last two million years at least, humans
1:15
Speaker 2: are being eating a high fat, hypertein diet and that's
1:18
Speaker 2: what we evolved to eat. And then we were doing
1:21
Speaker 2: very well until along came the new dietary guidelines, which
1:26
Speaker 2: were driven by the food industry, and there was nineteen
1:32
Speaker 2: seventy seven. They came along nineteen seventy seven, and we
1:36
Speaker 2: gave got this pyramid with lots of grains at the
1:39
Speaker 2: bottom and meat at the top, and that was a
1:42
Speaker 2: complete distortion because that's not what humans were adapted to eat.
1:46
Speaker 2: So we started eating that diet and now currently something
1:50
Speaker 2: like sixty to eighty percent of the North Americans suffering
1:54
Speaker 2: from metabolic syndrome, which is caused by excessive fat accumulation,
1:58
Speaker 2: particularly in the liver and the intestine. And that's where
2:03
Speaker 2: we are now. And fortunately with Trump coming along and
2:08
Speaker 2: Robert Kennedy Jr. They're desperately trying to change the food
2:12
Speaker 2: environment in the United States. And that's what we have
2:15
Speaker 2: to do. We have to reverse it to where it
2:17
Speaker 2: was when I was a child in the nineteen fifties.
2:20
Speaker 2: I grew up at bacon and eggs for breakfast because
2:24
Speaker 2: that's what my parents had eaten when they were living
2:27
Speaker 2: in Liverpool before they came to Africa, and that's what
2:30
Speaker 2: they were brought up on. And they'd been brought up
2:32
Speaker 2: on that because they came from the North of England,
2:34
Speaker 2: and the North of England had I suspect, been cold
2:38
Speaker 2: and covered with ice for many centuries, and so the
2:41
Speaker 2: people who survived there or went back there ultimately were
2:45
Speaker 2: going to be eating animals.
2:49
Speaker 1: Tim you spoke about when you're young, Would you mind
2:51
Speaker 1: taking me through your journey and how you got to
2:54
Speaker 1: where you are now?
2:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I was born in Zimbabwe and then we
2:58
Speaker 2: moved to South Africa when I was five years old.
3:01
Speaker 2: I went to school here, I finished my schooling. I
3:05
Speaker 2: had no idea what I wanted to study, absolutely none.
3:08
Speaker 2: I was fortunate to go to America for a year
3:11
Speaker 2: on an exchange program. I was fortunate that Professor Christian
3:14
Speaker 2: Barnard performed the world's first human heart transplant on the
3:18
Speaker 2: mountain side here at the University of Cape Town at
3:20
Speaker 2: the hospital Krudeskia Hospital, and I three months after he
3:25
Speaker 2: performed that operation, I work up one morning and said,
3:28
Speaker 2: I'm going to study medicine at UCT. I studied medicine
3:31
Speaker 2: at UCT. I very quickly realized that my interest was
3:35
Speaker 2: more in exercise physiology. So when we were studying medicine,
3:39
Speaker 2: I was studying the exercise physiology side of it. When
3:42
Speaker 2: we were studying medicine, I was looking at the sports
3:44
Speaker 2: medsine side. I somehow convinced the guys I knew enough
3:48
Speaker 2: about medicines pass with my got my degree. Still, I
3:52
Speaker 2: did a year in the hospital so that now I
3:54
Speaker 2: could practice medicine. But I realized I just wasn't cut
3:58
Speaker 2: out for this. I was not someone who's good at
4:01
Speaker 2: managing patients. I'm really good at looking at the literature
4:04
Speaker 2: and finding out asking questions and working out what we
4:08
Speaker 2: should be doing. So in a sense, what happens in
4:11
Speaker 2: medicine is you reach a point where now your career
4:14
Speaker 2: must divide. You've got choices. And if you're intellectual, if
4:19
Speaker 2: you're a surgeon, it's fantastic because then you go and
4:21
Speaker 2: practice with your hands and you cure, you really cure people,
4:25
Speaker 2: or you make them better. But if you're a physician,
4:28
Speaker 2: it all comes down to what's in your head. And
4:30
Speaker 2: the more you know and the more your brain can
4:33
Speaker 2: retain information, the better you are as the better you
4:37
Speaker 2: qualified you are as an academic doesn't mean you can
4:40
Speaker 2: manage patients. And I realize I didn't want anything of that,
4:44
Speaker 2: and so I was fortunate. I was competing athletically at
4:48
Speaker 2: the time and I just loved it. And I remember
4:50
Speaker 2: we had one lecture because I was actually rowing at
4:53
Speaker 2: the time, and the coach of the British Olympic team
4:58
Speaker 2: just happened to be in Cape done happened to give
5:00
Speaker 2: us a lecture and he spoke about lactate causing you
5:04
Speaker 2: to get fatigued during exercise. And I came out of
5:07
Speaker 2: the lecture and I said, that's what I'm going to study,
5:09
Speaker 2: and so that's what I did. So I studied sports science.
5:12
Speaker 2: We started sports science in South Africa. We've helped drive
5:15
Speaker 2: sports medicine and I spent forty years researching in the
5:21
Speaker 2: in sports science and sports medicine, both on the practical side,
5:25
Speaker 2: how do you help athletes perform better? And also on
5:28
Speaker 2: the scientific side trying to understand all these factors. And
5:33
Speaker 2: I think probably I'm best known for writing a book
5:35
Speaker 2: called Law of Running, and that's called the Bible of
5:39
Speaker 2: the Sport. And as I told you before, I'm now
5:42
Speaker 2: revising it for the fifth time. The last time I
5:47
Speaker 2: revised it was twenty years ago. So what happened in
5:52
Speaker 2: the last twenty years which sort of drove me away
5:55
Speaker 2: from sports science, well, as I got interested in the
5:58
Speaker 2: low carbohydrate data and that's how could help you. But
6:03
Speaker 2: that caused me to be basically excommunicated by my university
6:07
Speaker 2: and I was tackled by the medicine sorry, the Health
6:13
Speaker 2: Professions Council in South Africa, and they charged me with
6:17
Speaker 2: unconventional advice and not evidence based medicine and so on
6:22
Speaker 2: because I tweeted and I advised a mother to I
6:25
Speaker 2: didn't advise a mother, I said, I gave general advice
6:28
Speaker 2: to the population that the best way to raise a
6:32
Speaker 2: child is on a high fat, high core, high protein,
6:36
Speaker 2: animal based diet, and we even wrote a book about it,
6:42
Speaker 2: Raising Superheroes, which is probably the best book I've ever
6:46
Speaker 2: seen on how you should raise children and what food
6:50
Speaker 2: you should they should eat. Anyway, I was charged by
6:53
Speaker 2: the Health Profession's Council. It took four years. I was
6:56
Speaker 2: in court for twenty eight days and we eventually won
7:00
Speaker 2: the case, and there were thirteen charges against me. I
7:03
Speaker 2: won thirteen zero, and so that sort of during that period,
7:08
Speaker 2: I'd obviously learned I had to learn nutrition because I
7:11
Speaker 2: wasn't or health nutrition. I wasn't an expert on health nutrition.
7:15
Speaker 2: I knew a little bit about sports nutrition. So anywhere
7:19
Speaker 2: after that, a great friend of mine, who's now a
7:23
Speaker 2: great friend of mine exoth African living in America. He said, Prof,
7:28
Speaker 2: I've got this lab. Wouldn't you like to collaborate with us?
7:30
Speaker 2: And he asked what should we study? And I said,
7:32
Speaker 2: we should study low carbohydrate diets and their effects on performance,
7:38
Speaker 2: which we did because at the time it was said
7:41
Speaker 2: that a low carbohydrate diart destroys your performance, and in science,
7:45
Speaker 2: that's what you must look at. You must go and
7:47
Speaker 2: disprove your theories. So historically, in law of running up
7:52
Speaker 2: to twenty ten, i'd said that the high carbohydrate diets
7:57
Speaker 2: is ideal for exercise. I then cont it to a
8:00
Speaker 2: high fat diet, and my excise performance went through the
8:03
Speaker 2: roof because I was sick at the time, and so
8:05
Speaker 2: I got much better, and that made me question the teaching.
8:10
Speaker 2: And then so when I then I started writing, and
8:14
Speaker 2: people then claimed, oh, you've changed your mind. Well, you
8:17
Speaker 2: always change your mind when you see new evidence anyway,
8:21
Speaker 2: so I wrote, So we started doing research, and we
8:25
Speaker 2: did fantastic research. It's taken seven years, and essentially in
8:29
Speaker 2: the last few months we've published the paper, the definitive paper,
8:34
Speaker 2: which disproves that you need carbohydrates for it. You don't
8:37
Speaker 2: need carbohydrates for exercise. You just need a tiny amount
8:41
Speaker 2: during exercise. But before exercise what you eat makes no
8:45
Speaker 2: difference to your performance, which is completely contrary to what
8:48
Speaker 2: I was saying and which is currently taught. And that's
8:52
Speaker 2: because we evolved in a high fat diet and we
8:55
Speaker 2: had to exercise on a high fat diet or else
8:57
Speaker 2: we would have died. And by what is are highly
9:01
Speaker 2: designed to burn fat, but what's happened is that when
9:06
Speaker 2: we converted to this high carbohydrate diet, we always got
9:11
Speaker 2: a high insulin levels, and the insulin inhibits fat use
9:14
Speaker 2: by the body. And so we all when all the
9:18
Speaker 2: studies were done by ourselves, including on athletes, as soon
9:22
Speaker 2: as you put an athlete eating a high carbohydrate diet
9:25
Speaker 2: onto a treadmill or a bicycle, they're immediately burning most
9:29
Speaker 2: energies coming from carbohydrate. But it's not because that's the
9:32
Speaker 2: best fuel. It's actually because they're trying to get rid
9:35
Speaker 2: of it. But that's a whole nother story. And so
9:39
Speaker 2: we started saying, well, you've got to eat more carbohydrates.
9:42
Speaker 2: And I mean, we spent twenty years trying to get
9:45
Speaker 2: people to burn more carbohydrate. And what that does is
9:49
Speaker 2: they burn lots of corb hydrate and then inhibit fat.
9:52
Speaker 2: And so then they say well, then we say, well,
9:54
Speaker 2: it's because they're burning cobohydrate that they're doing well. So
9:57
Speaker 2: when we started working with this group in America, I said,
10:01
Speaker 2: let's do the opposite. Let's make some burn fat and
10:03
Speaker 2: see what happens. And we found that it made no
10:06
Speaker 2: difference whatsoever. They could burn all the fat they liked
10:10
Speaker 2: and they could do all the exercise they wanted, And
10:14
Speaker 2: there's very good reason to believe that for the average person,
10:17
Speaker 2: they're much better burning fat than carbohydrates. And I don't
10:23
Speaker 2: really see any role for high carbohydrate diets and athletes
10:27
Speaker 2: at all, although I'm on Twitter every day and I
10:31
Speaker 2: get castigated for saying that, because all the world's best
10:35
Speaker 2: athletes are taking one hundred and twenty grams of carbohydrate
10:39
Speaker 2: an hour. Now, when we as doctors want to see
10:44
Speaker 2: whether you've got diabetes, we've given you, we give you
10:46
Speaker 2: seventy five grams of carbohydrate. So these people every hour
10:50
Speaker 2: they're doing a glucose tyrant's test, which we used to
10:53
Speaker 2: see whether you're sick. And now they're telling me, no,
10:56
Speaker 2: that's the way we'd make you a better athlete. Just
10:59
Speaker 2: explain that to me. I can't follow it.
11:02
Speaker 1: But just to be clear, and I think you might
11:03
Speaker 1: be being a bit modest here, but when you talk
11:06
Speaker 1: about sports science, you effectively the world's leading sports scientist
11:11
Speaker 1: or number two or something to that effect. You very
11:13
Speaker 1: very high up.
11:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's on the citation rates, in other words, the
11:18
Speaker 2: number of times your articles are referred to. And about
11:22
Speaker 2: two years ago I was third, and then the two
11:24
Speaker 2: guys are older than me both died. So I know,
11:29
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the labors results, but I don't think
11:31
Speaker 2: anyone would come up below me from from below up.
11:35
Speaker 2: So I probably number one, or maybe number two if
11:38
Speaker 2: someone else has that.
11:41
Speaker 1: Because you do know what you're talking about, but you
11:45
Speaker 1: are talking about sports. Does this flow over into general life?
11:53
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I think so very much, because so well,
11:56
Speaker 2: I can give you a good explanation. So when I
11:58
Speaker 2: started in the sports sciences, the one thing we were
12:01
Speaker 2: told was that lactic acid causes fatigue in your muscles.
12:04
Speaker 2: That's exactly what the coach told us when he lectured
12:07
Speaker 2: to us in nineteen sixty nine. And that's the textbook knowledge.
12:12
Speaker 2: And I was speaking to a group of school boys
12:14
Speaker 2: the other day and they said, yes, that's what we
12:16
Speaker 2: have to write in our examinations. And I said, but
12:19
Speaker 2: it's all wrong, And I said, you can prove it wrong.
12:22
Speaker 2: All you have to do is just go and watch
12:24
Speaker 2: a ten kilometer race and time each lap and tell
12:28
Speaker 2: me which is the fastest lap. Now, according to your theory,
12:31
Speaker 2: the first lap must be the fastest because you've got
12:33
Speaker 2: no lack date, and the tenth must be the slowest,
12:36
Speaker 2: and I said, what you're going to find is the
12:37
Speaker 2: tenth lap is the fastest, So how can it be
12:40
Speaker 2: the fastest when the lactad levels are the highest. So
12:43
Speaker 2: therefore you've disproved the theory just by simple observation. So
12:49
Speaker 2: what happened to me was I went and looked back
12:52
Speaker 2: at some of the literature there on which all of
12:55
Speaker 2: this was based, and it goes back to a guy
12:57
Speaker 2: called av Hill, who was from from Cambridge and elsewhere
13:02
Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties, and he said that when you
13:06
Speaker 2: exercise vigorously, you reach a point where there's no more
13:09
Speaker 2: oxygen getting to the muscles, and that causes you to
13:13
Speaker 2: stop exercising because the lactad builds up. And we I'd
13:17
Speaker 2: come to the conclusion that that was wrong and that
13:19
Speaker 2: he'd never actually shown that, And then I was heavily
13:23
Speaker 2: criticized for this was a major lecture I gave in America,
13:27
Speaker 2: and it was a named lecture. And so when you
13:31
Speaker 2: write up the story, not everyone writes up the lecture,
13:34
Speaker 2: which I did, And the funniest thing was that somebody
13:38
Speaker 2: responded to it, which never happened before. And I was
13:42
Speaker 2: in Finland and I was. It was with a Pavonurmese
13:46
Speaker 2: one hundredth anniversary, and I was speaking about Perva Nurmi
13:49
Speaker 2: because he appears in Law Running quite a lot, and
13:53
Speaker 2: that's why the Finns really liked me, because of the
13:55
Speaker 2: book includes a lot about their greatest runner. So just
13:59
Speaker 2: as I'm getting about to get up, my great friend
14:02
Speaker 2: who'd invited me, gave me the journal, the scientific journal
14:06
Speaker 2: in which this criticism was listed, and are literally standing up,
14:10
Speaker 2: says Tim, you might want to read this before you
14:12
Speaker 2: say anything. So I said, now, I'll look at that afterwards. Anyway,
14:19
Speaker 2: when I went back and read what he had said,
14:22
Speaker 2: Professor A. V. Hill, he made the key point that
14:27
Speaker 2: if you'll run out of oxygen in your muscles, the
14:30
Speaker 2: first organ that will be damage is the heart, not
14:32
Speaker 2: the muscles. The heart come sack first, then the muscles.
14:35
Speaker 2: And he realized this and he said, there was this
14:37
Speaker 2: other there was a controller or a governor that went
14:42
Speaker 2: from the heart to the brain to slow the parts
14:45
Speaker 2: function down. And I immediately knew that's not that couldn't happen.
14:49
Speaker 2: It has to go to the brain to slow the
14:51
Speaker 2: muscles down for various reasons. And then then I realized
14:56
Speaker 2: that this governor theory, which we then developed, is that
15:00
Speaker 2: during exercise, the bodies that the brain's designed to protect
15:03
Speaker 2: you from home and everything that could that all this
15:08
Speaker 2: information is coming back to their brain, and your brain
15:11
Speaker 2: then allows you to run at a particular speed which
15:14
Speaker 2: won't cause harm. So it projects ahead. So if you're
15:16
Speaker 2: going to run one hundred miles, it projects ahead from
15:19
Speaker 2: one hundred miles. It says, okay, you can start at
15:21
Speaker 2: this read and you'll be okay, and if you try
15:25
Speaker 2: to go above that then it'll slow you down, etc.
15:28
Speaker 2: So that was the model and we developed it and
15:32
Speaker 2: I was it's been pretty much accepted now. But it's
15:35
Speaker 2: really interesting because another the premiere journal in physiology Journal
15:40
Speaker 2: in the World says, published a newspaper this week or
15:45
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, again saying that the heart limits
15:49
Speaker 2: exercise performance. But it can't because if the heart's limiting,
15:53
Speaker 2: it's going to go into heart failure. So you have
15:55
Speaker 2: to have another mechanism. So ab Hill's theory, which we
16:00
Speaker 2: disproved in the nineteen twenties, it's still very popular in
16:04
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, one hundred years later, and that science,
16:09
Speaker 2: you know, it takes a lot time to overcome these ideas.
16:13
Speaker 1: You're speaking about in the nineteen twenties. Just to clarify,
16:19
Speaker 1: when we talk about low carbohydrate diets, we're not talking
16:22
Speaker 1: about a fad.
16:24
Speaker 2: No, no, absolutely not. I mean it was the so
16:27
Speaker 2: we've written. We've published now a textbook. I don't have
16:31
Speaker 2: a copy of the Keto Ketogenic Textbook, in which we
16:36
Speaker 2: got sixty of the top scientists in the world who
16:39
Speaker 2: study low carbohydrate darts. And the point I'd like to
16:43
Speaker 2: make is that all sixty of them came to the
16:46
Speaker 2: diet the same way I did. We were doing we
16:48
Speaker 2: were promoting high carved diets. You know, that's great, you
16:52
Speaker 2: can run faster and you're healthier and et cetera, et cetera.
16:56
Speaker 2: And then we each became sick ourselves. Curb I developed
17:01
Speaker 2: Type two diabetes, which fortunately is intermission with this diet.
17:05
Speaker 2: But so we all developed a problem, became fat and
17:09
Speaker 2: lazy and logic and depressed and anxious, et cetera. And
17:13
Speaker 2: then we discovered this diet by different chances, and we
17:17
Speaker 2: all got better on the diet, and then we realized
17:19
Speaker 2: there was something special to it. And so anyway, these
17:22
Speaker 2: sixty scientists around them. Well, we've put together this textbook
17:26
Speaker 2: and it shows the low carbohydrate diet is the most
17:29
Speaker 2: studied diet in history and it's the most successful because
17:34
Speaker 2: it covers all these conditions. So that's the evidence.
17:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that book you're speaking about, if I've got
17:41
Speaker 1: the if I'm thinking of the correct one, Thomas Seafreed
17:44
Speaker 1: is in there, isn't he That's right? Yes, absolutely, And
17:48
Speaker 1: Thomas has written extensively on cancer and why you help
17:55
Speaker 1: fight cancer with low carbohydrate diets, and that is fairly
17:59
Speaker 1: established anyway.
18:01
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think that that's absolutely right. I think
18:04
Speaker 2: that if you had cancer, the first thing you do
18:06
Speaker 2: is go on a low carb diet. But that will
18:09
Speaker 2: slow the growth of the cancer, may not cure it.
18:12
Speaker 2: But you know, as the cancer is going to going
18:15
Speaker 2: a huge revolution because a lot of the drugs are
18:19
Speaker 2: being repurposed for treating cancers, and ivermectin is one of them.
18:25
Speaker 2: And it's remarkable that this drug is having some incredible successes.
18:30
Speaker 1: I was reminded of the time that you and I
18:33
Speaker 1: met and I told you I was suffering from heart
18:35
Speaker 1: buron and you said that the oats on link to
18:40
Speaker 1: that to why is there a connection between heartburon and carbohydrates.
18:47
Speaker 2: Okay, so what happens when you change your diet is
18:49
Speaker 2: you change the microbiome. And what is found with carbohydrates
18:54
Speaker 2: is that the carbohydrate digesting bacteria move up higher into
18:59
Speaker 2: the small intestine. They shouldn't be there, but they will
19:03
Speaker 2: make their way up. And what happens then is when
19:05
Speaker 2: you eat carbohydrates that they break down the carbohydrates and
19:09
Speaker 2: release methane. And because it's up in the upper parts
19:13
Speaker 2: of your gut, the wears are going to go It's
19:14
Speaker 2: going to go up, so you're going to burp it up,
19:17
Speaker 2: and that is going to take acid from the stomach
19:19
Speaker 2: into these lower parts of the esophagus and repeatedly done.
19:23
Speaker 2: That causes irritation in the esophagus, and that causes your
19:28
Speaker 2: persistent pain or repeated pain whenever you eat or when
19:32
Speaker 2: you burp, and this acid comes back into the esophagus.
19:37
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is that the treatment which they give
19:40
Speaker 2: you to increase the alkalination to alkalineizes your stomach is disastrous.
19:48
Speaker 2: It makes things worse. So the only thing you can
19:50
Speaker 2: do is to get rid of those bacteria. You don't
19:53
Speaker 2: want them. You've got to re program the bacteria in
19:56
Speaker 2: your gut, and that's what it seems to be that
19:58
Speaker 2: the high fat diet does particularly.
20:03
Speaker 1: So by extension, a lot of people will argue that
20:05
Speaker 1: it's sugar that is doing that.
20:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it may well be, and so, but let's say,
20:15
Speaker 2: let's make it simpler. Let's say it's ultraprocessed foods because
20:18
Speaker 2: they're the real problem, and that we need to go
20:20
Speaker 2: back to eating real animal foods and get away from
20:23
Speaker 2: ultra processed foods. So, but you're quite right, you know,
20:27
Speaker 2: a lot of their ill health has happened with ultra
20:29
Speaker 2: processed foods, or sorry, all of it has happened subsequent
20:32
Speaker 2: to ultra processed foods. And we tended to focus on
20:36
Speaker 2: the carbohydrate components, but there may be all sorts of
20:40
Speaker 2: other things in the foods that are causing the problem.
20:44
Speaker 1: What really matters is we must just eat less processed
20:48
Speaker 1: food and just be more balanced.
20:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, the word balanced, I mean, I don't know what
20:54
Speaker 2: balanced is means, because that's the standard dietary advice, you
20:59
Speaker 2: must eat a balance, But I don't know what a
21:01
Speaker 2: balanced is. Is it a third fat, a third protein,
21:04
Speaker 2: a third corbohydrate. Now, the reality is, and this is
21:08
Speaker 2: what one has to learn, particularly if you're like me,
21:12
Speaker 2: is that there's only so much carbohydrate you can cope with.
21:16
Speaker 2: And some people can cope with plenty of carbohydrate, but
21:19
Speaker 2: others like myself, can cope with less than twenty five
21:22
Speaker 2: grams a day. Now, what is twenty five grams compared
21:26
Speaker 2: to the normal. So most South Africans, probably most people
21:30
Speaker 2: living in Britain and Europe are eating maybe four hundred
21:33
Speaker 2: grams of carbohydrate today. And what we discover is that
21:38
Speaker 2: if you drop your corbo hydrate intake from four hundred
21:40
Speaker 2: to three hundred, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. So
21:45
Speaker 2: you might think, osh, and I've reduced my cop a lot,
21:48
Speaker 2: but you have to when you're in my state with
21:52
Speaker 2: pre diabetes diabetes, you've got to get it down below
21:55
Speaker 2: fifty or twenty five grams, which is well, I don't
21:59
Speaker 2: eat these things, but it's a couple of slices of
22:01
Speaker 2: bread or a banana or an apple, and that's it.
22:05
Speaker 2: And when you start, it's difficult. I've been on the
22:09
Speaker 2: start fifteen years now and so it's not a problem.
22:12
Speaker 2: But initially to think that, my gosh, you've got to
22:16
Speaker 2: cut from five hundred or four hundred grams down to
22:18
Speaker 2: twenty five. It's quite a leap, but once you start,
22:23
Speaker 2: it's you just feel so much better and everything goes well.
22:28
Speaker 1: If we zoom out, what you effectively arguing is that
22:32
Speaker 1: there is no requirement for carbohydrates in order to have
22:37
Speaker 1: optimal health.
22:39
Speaker 2: Correct. There are proteins are essential, there are certain amino
22:43
Speaker 2: acids that are essential. There are certain fats that are essential,
22:47
Speaker 2: and if you avoid them or don't eat them, you
22:49
Speaker 2: will die. That's as simple as that. There is no
22:53
Speaker 2: carbohydrate that is essential, none at all. And you know
22:57
Speaker 2: people say, oh, you need fiber, et cetera. The fiber
23:00
Speaker 2: is just broken down to saturated fats and absorbed as
23:03
Speaker 2: saturated fat, is not even absorbed as carbohydrate. So then
23:09
Speaker 2: what the dietitians tell us is ar but your brain
23:12
Speaker 2: uses only carbohydrate, and so therefore you've got to eat carbohydrate.
23:16
Speaker 2: But that doesn't didn't understand. You've got a liver. You've
23:19
Speaker 2: got a liver that's there to produce the glucose you need,
23:23
Speaker 2: and the liver can produce both glucose and ketone bodies
23:27
Speaker 2: which will keep your brain going fine. So the only
23:31
Speaker 2: we have shown that there is an essential carbohydrate requirement,
23:35
Speaker 2: and that's during prolonged exercise, because then for some reason,
23:39
Speaker 2: the human body is not designed optimally and I'm not
23:46
Speaker 2: I'm not really thought why it should be. But if
23:49
Speaker 2: you eat a low carbohydrate dit, so you're eating zero carbohydrates,
23:53
Speaker 2: and you exercise for a long time, you may reach
23:57
Speaker 2: a point where the liver can't produce enough glucose from
24:00
Speaker 2: the substrates, and then your blood glucose level can fall
24:04
Speaker 2: and you will feel a bit woozy and you'll want
24:06
Speaker 2: to stop exercising, and that's it. And that's because clearly
24:09
Speaker 2: the brain does have an essential glucose requirement. But the
24:15
Speaker 2: only time you really see that is if you're going
24:18
Speaker 2: to go and exercise for three or four or five
24:20
Speaker 2: hours and you're going to fast and you don't eat
24:23
Speaker 2: any carbohydrates during exercise, and that's where you will see, Yes,
24:27
Speaker 2: there isn't essential glucose need. But so what we probe
24:32
Speaker 2: proven recently is that you just need about twenty grams
24:36
Speaker 2: of sorry ten grams of carbohydrate every hour and that
24:39
Speaker 2: covers that requirement, which is a tiny amount. So if
24:43
Speaker 2: you were to go and run a long race, long
24:45
Speaker 2: distance race, you weren't eating carbohydrates. You were on a
24:48
Speaker 2: high fat diet during the race, you could benefit from
24:53
Speaker 2: ingesting ten grams of carbohydrate. And that's because for some reason,
24:58
Speaker 2: the brain's glucose needs or remain high when you're exercising,
25:03
Speaker 2: and sometimes the liver can't cope, can't produce enough bluecose
25:07
Speaker 2: to keep the brain happy.
25:10
Speaker 1: Okay, but the average person doesn't weigh his food. So
25:13
Speaker 1: what does this mean practically? If we go to dinner, vegetables,
25:19
Speaker 1: I have cobo hydrates in them, potatoes, what do you
25:22
Speaker 1: mean when we talk about low carbohydrates, you know, just
25:25
Speaker 1: in standard daily living.
25:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's easy to explain. It's the
25:31
Speaker 2: easiest way to explain is what can you eat? And
25:33
Speaker 2: that not rather not what can't you eat? So you
25:36
Speaker 2: can eat all animal produce, all chicken, fish, you can
25:41
Speaker 2: eat dairy. You can eat some nuts, but not all
25:44
Speaker 2: the nuts, and lots of eggs, and some of those
25:48
Speaker 2: green vegetables, the leafy vegetables, because they're so low in cobbohydrate.
25:52
Speaker 2: That's fine, and that's it. So so where do the
25:57
Speaker 2: potatoes come where they don't fit unfortunately, don't fit on
25:59
Speaker 2: that that group. All the carrots, Where does bread. Fit
26:04
Speaker 2: doesn't fit. Where does carrots? They don't fit, you know.
26:07
Speaker 2: But again, a character day is not going to cause
26:11
Speaker 2: harm because it's not going to have more than twenty
26:13
Speaker 2: five grams of cobohydrate for it for a diabetic and
26:16
Speaker 2: if you're not diabetic, you can have your fifty to
26:18
Speaker 2: one hundred grams. So I think what we what we're
26:23
Speaker 2: talking about is for the people who are who are
26:26
Speaker 2: whose metabolism is so damaged they can't cope with coppohydrate,
26:30
Speaker 2: and those are people with type two diabetes or pre diabetes.
26:34
Speaker 2: Now the problem is that what's happened now, my mother
26:39
Speaker 2: would have eaten a high fat, high protein diet during
26:42
Speaker 2: her pregnancy with me. I would have been weaned onto
26:46
Speaker 2: animal produce. I wasn't given baby pure foods. I would
26:53
Speaker 2: have been given proper meals with animal produce. So my
26:58
Speaker 2: insign resistance I was entirely genetic. It's all through or
27:04
Speaker 2: throughout my family. And as long as I ate cobb sorry,
27:07
Speaker 2: as long as I ate fat and proteins, that was fine.
27:10
Speaker 2: And I did that for a long time until I
27:12
Speaker 2: started marathon running, and then I was an expert. Now,
27:16
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm reading all the physiology and the physiology
27:19
Speaker 2: said you was eat carbs. So I started eating cobs
27:22
Speaker 2: and that's when I started getting sick without realizing it.
27:25
Speaker 2: And if you do that for thirty years, as I did,
27:27
Speaker 2: then ultimately you can present with type two diabetes. The
27:32
Speaker 2: irony is my sister, who probably has very similar genes
27:36
Speaker 2: to me. She was in London in nineteen sixty five
27:40
Speaker 2: and she picked up a book and I think it
27:42
Speaker 2: is called The Drinking Man's Diet, and that was the
27:46
Speaker 2: third one of the first low carb diets, and she
27:49
Speaker 2: went low cabs and she looks amazing and she's eighty odd,
27:53
Speaker 2: she's close to eighty, and she's still as lean as
27:56
Speaker 2: ever and amazing, amazingly healthy. And so she told her
28:01
Speaker 2: Eventually she admitted, She said, Tim, I've been eating this,
28:05
Speaker 2: your so called banting diet for forty years. So I said, oh,
28:10
Speaker 2: why didn't you tell me? She said, no, you're the expert.
28:12
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you.
28:14
Speaker 1: So, but that's an interesting point that you're making. So,
28:17
Speaker 1: for example, I'm not overweight. I could eat a character day,
28:21
Speaker 1: for example, and it won't really affect me. But you
28:23
Speaker 1: have there are a lot of fat people around us,
28:25
Speaker 1: and what you're speaking to what you speaking more to them?
28:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. So you know, if you've got this
28:35
Speaker 2: beer punch that's called visceral obesti and you are pre
28:39
Speaker 2: diabetic or diabetic, I don't care what your glucose test shows.
28:45
Speaker 2: And that's unfortunately the glucose test isn't adequate. And I've
28:49
Speaker 2: just written the ForWord for a very famous book by
28:52
Speaker 2: guy called Dr Craft who did some amazing work in
28:57
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies, and his son has had the book republished.
29:00
Speaker 2: I'm sorry it's not quite at hand here. And what
29:03
Speaker 2: doctor Craft did was when the insulin acid instant assay
29:07
Speaker 2: was discovered, where you could measure instant levels. His hospital
29:12
Speaker 2: was doing all these glucose torrance tests in which you
29:15
Speaker 2: only measure glucose. He said, well, why don't we measure
29:18
Speaker 2: insulin on all of these tests, And so they measured
29:22
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand tests where they had the insulin and the glucose,
29:28
Speaker 2: and he found essentially that the a normal glucose torrance test,
29:32
Speaker 2: which we as doctors would say, oh you perferc you
29:34
Speaker 2: haven't got pre diabetes. It's no, no, no, no no,
29:37
Speaker 2: Let's look at your instn response and if the instant
29:39
Speaker 2: response was abnormal, you were were going to develop diabetes.
29:44
Speaker 2: And so that was the test, and unfortunately that test
29:47
Speaker 2: is not done. We still don't do it. We still
29:49
Speaker 2: just measure glucose, so we completely underestimate the extent of
29:54
Speaker 2: diabetes in the population. We know it's an epidemic, a pandemic,
29:58
Speaker 2: we know it's a single most important disease because it
30:02
Speaker 2: causes all the sorts of complications, and yet we still
30:05
Speaker 2: don't diagnosee it early enough and we don't prescribe the
30:08
Speaker 2: proper treatment. So that's that's the story with with diabetes.
30:13
Speaker 2: And now if we were to take everyone who's got
30:15
Speaker 2: a pot barely and now that's normal, that's accepted. So
30:20
Speaker 2: even the models. Now you can have a fat tummy,
30:23
Speaker 2: but that is visceral obesity and that is killing you.
30:26
Speaker 2: The fat cells in the in the in the gut
30:30
Speaker 2: are releasing inflammatory agents and they're causing you to become
30:35
Speaker 2: insign resistant and then that causes all the complications of
30:40
Speaker 2: this disease. So that's that's the reality, and we just
30:44
Speaker 2: we just we just ignore it.
30:47
Speaker 1: So just to be clear, uh, running and running and
30:51
Speaker 1: more running is not really going to make you lose weight.
30:55
Speaker 2: It'll do the opposite because you're told to eat carbohydrates.
31:01
Speaker 2: So that that's my real frustration is if you go
31:05
Speaker 2: when I started marathon running, if you didn't finish in
31:08
Speaker 2: three hours, there was no no one was there to
31:11
Speaker 2: meet to greet you at the finish. You had three
31:13
Speaker 2: hours to run the marathon, and then the close that.
31:16
Speaker 2: Now you can take eight ten hours to run the marathon,
31:18
Speaker 2: and of course you're not running, you're walking most of
31:21
Speaker 2: the time, and so what And it's clear that the
31:24
Speaker 2: performances in the marathon run are getting worse. The best
31:28
Speaker 2: runners are running faster, but the average time is getting
31:31
Speaker 2: slower and slower and slower and slower by decayed. And
31:35
Speaker 2: so what's happening is people are thinking they're becoming marathon runners.
31:39
Speaker 2: They're not training, and then they go out and then
31:42
Speaker 2: they told well, if you want to finish the marathon,
31:44
Speaker 2: you better eat lots of corps and they're into resistant
31:47
Speaker 2: and it's just making it worse. So if you go
31:50
Speaker 2: to the finish of the London Marathon, the boss not
31:53
Speaker 2: the Boston because it's got an entry time, but the
31:56
Speaker 2: New York City Marathon and all the other big city marathons.
31:59
Speaker 2: After about four hours. You see these pot bare lead
32:02
Speaker 2: humans coming in and they think they're healthy, but they
32:06
Speaker 2: aren't because you can't outrun a bad diet. The bad
32:10
Speaker 2: diet is because you're ins and resistant and because you've
32:13
Speaker 2: got it high circulating insulin all the time, that's causing
32:17
Speaker 2: all the damage that is possible. So that's the message
32:21
Speaker 2: we have to get out. You know, you can train
32:24
Speaker 2: all you like, you can run all you like, but
32:26
Speaker 2: if you're ins and resistant and eating the wrong diet,
32:29
Speaker 2: it's not going to make any difference at all.
32:31
Speaker 1: So weight loss starts in the kitchen absolutely.
32:36
Speaker 2: And you know, I didn't know this even though I
32:39
Speaker 2: wrote these books, but one of the studies we did
32:44
Speaker 2: was about thirty people wrote to me and said they'd
32:47
Speaker 2: reverse their diabetes, the type two diabetes diagnosed by the doctor.
32:51
Speaker 2: They'd reverse their type two diabetes on this diet. And
32:56
Speaker 2: so that was great because I knew it was happening.
32:58
Speaker 2: There's a guy called David Unwinded in Britain who is
33:01
Speaker 2: now as in the general practices, had one hundred and
33:04
Speaker 2: fifty patients reverse their diabetes just on diet, nothing else,
33:08
Speaker 2: just diet alone. So we knew it was happening. So
33:11
Speaker 2: we thought, well, let's just check up to make sure
33:13
Speaker 2: that these people is true. So we asked them all,
33:16
Speaker 2: we examined them and did everything you need to do,
33:20
Speaker 2: and we found that some actually hadn't reversed their diabetes
33:23
Speaker 2: and they hadn't lost as much weight as perhaps they
33:25
Speaker 2: claimed they had. And when we looked at it, the
33:28
Speaker 2: one factor that determined whether you reversed your diabetes was
33:33
Speaker 2: whether you stopped your cravings and you controlled what you
33:36
Speaker 2: were eating. If you didn't control your cravings, you didn't
33:39
Speaker 2: reverse the diabetes. So it wasn't about controlling glucose, it
33:45
Speaker 2: was controlling your cravings. So that then we realized, okay,
33:49
Speaker 2: we've got an addictive process, and not that we were
33:51
Speaker 2: the first to think that that. The foods that ultra
33:54
Speaker 2: process foods with lots of sugar are highly addictive and
33:58
Speaker 2: they're designed to addict you, and they're designed because the
34:01
Speaker 2: people selling you that food were once the tobacco manufacturers
34:06
Speaker 2: and now they're the food manufacturers, and they know how
34:09
Speaker 2: to develop addictive foods, and so that's what they've done.
34:13
Speaker 2: So if you want to lose weight and control your diabetes,
34:17
Speaker 2: you have to control the addiction. And it's across the board.
34:21
Speaker 2: And I know when I advise people on the diet,
34:25
Speaker 2: I first ask them, you know, do you drink wine? Oh?
34:29
Speaker 2: I never give up my wine. Then I know it's
34:31
Speaker 2: not going to work. Or I'm not going to give
34:34
Speaker 2: up my beer, because that's will just keep. That's the
34:36
Speaker 2: addiction that's continued, and you have to get rid of.
34:40
Speaker 2: The addictive eating.
34:45
Speaker 1: Is what you're talking about. Specific to genetics or culture.
34:50
Speaker 1: Let me give you an example. I was in China
34:52
Speaker 1: last year and they don't seem like fat people. I
34:58
Speaker 1: saw very very few fat people.
35:01
Speaker 2: Well, the answers, are you Chinese or Indian? Simple? If
35:06
Speaker 2: you're not, you wort two different genes and.
35:08
Speaker 1: Different Okay, so there is a genetic thing.
35:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, but now let's look at that. Let's let's unpack that.
35:15
Speaker 2: The Indian community is incredibly unhealthy because they eat many
35:19
Speaker 2: vegetarian dart then they have too little meat and they
35:22
Speaker 2: are extremely unhealthy and diabetes right rates are very high.
35:27
Speaker 2: The Chinese are the most obese, and now I know
35:30
Speaker 2: you you I quite agree with you. They're thin. But
35:33
Speaker 2: when you look at the total population, there's much obesity
35:36
Speaker 2: and much diabetes. And this is a recent phenomenon too,
35:41
Speaker 2: because before that Chinese people were they weren't starving, but
35:45
Speaker 2: they were eating lower calories and they were eating below
35:48
Speaker 2: two thousand calories a day. Now that's shot up to
35:50
Speaker 2: three thousand and five hundred and so that's causing the obesity.
35:54
Speaker 2: But I agree it's not everywhere. And I mean I've
35:58
Speaker 2: spoken to people from the Mid East, from Middle East,
36:00
Speaker 2: from Iran and so on, where the carbohydrates were really
36:05
Speaker 2: first introduced, and they remain lean and they eat lots
36:08
Speaker 2: of carbohydrate. So I think they've over eighteen thousand years,
36:12
Speaker 2: that's when since they've been eating cobs, they have adapted
36:16
Speaker 2: in a way, and they've been and it's maybe because
36:19
Speaker 2: the ones eating the cobs who couldn't cope with have
36:21
Speaker 2: died off and didn't recreate and procreate and so on.
36:24
Speaker 2: So I do agree that that that is right. There
36:28
Speaker 2: are populations, but you just have to look in your
36:31
Speaker 2: own population. Yes, you can't go and say what are
36:34
Speaker 2: the Chinese eating and what are the Indians eating? Just
36:37
Speaker 2: go and look in my country with it, so they
36:38
Speaker 2: were our country. Just go down to them all and
36:41
Speaker 2: see what people look like, and do they look like
36:43
Speaker 2: they're thin and healthy? And the answers no, and then
36:46
Speaker 2: see what they're eating.
36:48
Speaker 1: It is actually a problem. I mean, I saw photographs
36:51
Speaker 1: from when my folks were kids on the beach and
36:54
Speaker 1: everybody looked fairly thin they were today. Everybody today is fat,
36:59
Speaker 1: exactly right.
37:01
Speaker 2: And then it's simple. It's the food addiction and the
37:04
Speaker 2: ultra process foods, which, as we've said, are highly addictive,
37:09
Speaker 2: and you always and you just have to eat a
37:10
Speaker 2: few extra calories a day and then you'll accumulate that
37:13
Speaker 2: over time. And the idea that you should only eat
37:17
Speaker 2: once a day is foreign to those people. And that's
37:22
Speaker 2: that's what we try to teach that once you've got
37:24
Speaker 2: your you've got your controls back again, you can fast
37:29
Speaker 2: most of the day. You just don't need to keep
37:30
Speaker 2: eating all the time.
37:33
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is if I have a big plate
37:37
Speaker 1: of food in the morning, bacon, eggs, sausage, coffee with
37:42
Speaker 1: cream in it, I'm not hungry for most of the day.
37:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we tell people. You know, if someone
37:48
Speaker 2: comes to me and says, you know, it proved to
37:50
Speaker 2: me that your diet works, I'd say, well, we're first
37:54
Speaker 2: going to do this experiment and it's astonishing. They all
37:57
Speaker 2: come back and say exactly what you said, and they
38:00
Speaker 2: can't believe it. And so what I try to tell
38:03
Speaker 2: people is you should eat only at home because then
38:05
Speaker 2: you don't going to eat snacks on all these other
38:08
Speaker 2: ultra process things. And if you and you should eat
38:11
Speaker 2: as much as you possibly can for breakfast, if you're
38:13
Speaker 2: a working person away from home, and then you go
38:16
Speaker 2: to whatever you do and hopefully you're not going to
38:19
Speaker 2: be hungry till five o'clock at night, and if you
38:21
Speaker 2: are hungry, you eat nuts.
38:23
Speaker 1: And built on which is hang on, hang on, hang on, Tim,
38:26
Speaker 1: I've got to drop this one in. Yes, but Tim,
38:31
Speaker 1: you're funded by the meat industry. You're promoting meat.
38:35
Speaker 2: I wish I was the only thing I ever got
38:38
Speaker 2: from the meat industry was that Unfortunate's not here, it's
38:41
Speaker 2: at another place. Was a lovely statue of this ball
38:47
Speaker 2: and it was from the meat board. And that was it.
38:51
Speaker 2: But they all said they're going to put up a
38:54
Speaker 2: music a monument somewhere in the karoo. Because I also
38:58
Speaker 2: promote that. It reminds me of of Elon Musk saying,
39:04
Speaker 2: you know, he's the biggest taxpayer in North America. He
39:07
Speaker 2: pays twenty billion dollars a year in tax. He said
39:10
Speaker 2: he'd really like it if the RS one day would
39:13
Speaker 2: come and give him a little placard. Say said, they've
39:17
Speaker 2: never done that.
39:22
Speaker 1: But let's just talk about that for a second. I
39:25
Speaker 1: have friends who are vegetarian, and it's always a heated discussion,
39:31
Speaker 1: always when you're talking about meat. Okay, so let's just
39:35
Speaker 1: quickly break apart this this narrative. If your position is ethical,
39:42
Speaker 1: you don't like the idea of animals being killed, Okay,
39:45
Speaker 1: that's fine. I can't argue with you, and that that's
39:47
Speaker 1: a personal thing. But if your argument is that avoiding
39:50
Speaker 1: meat is healthier, that is simply not true.
39:53
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think you've you've absolutely made the to the divide.
40:00
Speaker 2: And if people want to eat it for ethical reason
40:02
Speaker 2: of the vegetarian, that's fine, but they're going to suffer.
40:05
Speaker 2: Their health's going to suffer. But also the reality is
40:07
Speaker 2: very few, there are very few vegetarians. Most of them
40:10
Speaker 2: cheat when you look at it, they still they do
40:13
Speaker 2: eat meat. And then so no, but I had some
40:14
Speaker 2: chicken or I had an egg, But that's a vegetarian
40:17
Speaker 2: because I'm not eating meat. No, no, no, So so
40:21
Speaker 2: that's the first point is that there are truly very
40:24
Speaker 2: few vegetarians. The second thing is that there's always about point.
40:28
Speaker 2: I think it's half a percent of the population of vegetarian,
40:31
Speaker 2: or or maybe that's vegan. Maybe it's two or three
40:35
Speaker 2: percent vegetarian, and it never changes. So if this movement
40:39
Speaker 2: was real, there would if the biology was real and
40:44
Speaker 2: that you would do better as a vegetarian, they would
40:47
Speaker 2: have the numbers would have increased dramatically. And it hasn't.
40:50
Speaker 2: It's always stayed the same over the last twenty thirty
40:53
Speaker 2: forty years. It basically is a religion, which is fine,
40:57
Speaker 2: but it's not the healthiest because an animal you need
41:01
Speaker 2: animal produce to get all the nutrients in the right
41:04
Speaker 2: sort of balance. And once you take just eating plants,
41:08
Speaker 2: and you've got a problem. And the other thing is
41:12
Speaker 2: that once you're not eating animal produce, you think it's
41:16
Speaker 2: okay to have a Coca cola and to eat chips
41:20
Speaker 2: and to eat other things like chocolates. Oh, because it's vegetarian,
41:25
Speaker 2: it's vegan, but it's highly unhealthy. And that's the problem.
41:30
Speaker 2: And when you look at the diets of those people
41:33
Speaker 2: who aren't who don't really understand it, and analyze it
41:36
Speaker 2: and to go through in great detail what they should
41:39
Speaker 2: be eating. And it takes a lot of effort and
41:42
Speaker 2: it's probably a bit expensive too that they can find
41:46
Speaker 2: they find, but the average vegetarian doesn't eat very well.
41:50
Speaker 2: And it's the same in sport when the athletes are
41:53
Speaker 2: promoting high carb diets. They think it's fine to take
41:57
Speaker 2: their coca colas and their chips, et cetera. Oh, because
42:01
Speaker 2: it's carbs and it's going to make me exercise faster.
42:04
Speaker 2: But it's not giving you the nutrients that you need.
42:07
Speaker 2: And that's that's the problem. It's a nutrient defish and diet.
42:11
Speaker 1: Could you live quite healthily or purely meat?
42:16
Speaker 2: Yes? I could, or you can? I mean you can,
42:20
Speaker 2: and I certainly could, and in fact I do mostly no.
42:24
Speaker 1: But I mean, is can you can you get everything
42:26
Speaker 1: you need and all the vitamins. You don't need any
42:29
Speaker 1: supplementation if you just eat meat.
42:31
Speaker 2: But you do have to eat organs. You have to need.
42:34
Speaker 2: You have to need. You have to eat livers and
42:36
Speaker 2: pancreas and a few other things and bone marrow, so
42:40
Speaker 2: that but you can, I mean, that's you're going and
42:42
Speaker 2: look at the the populations that do like, like the Inuit,
42:46
Speaker 2: they're doing very well. They just eat They're just animals,
42:50
Speaker 2: fish and animals, seals and so on.
42:54
Speaker 1: There was that guy who lived with the Inuits, like
42:57
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago something. I forget his name.
42:59
Speaker 2: Now I'll get it too, because you jumped.
43:03
Speaker 1: He was Finnish or Swedish or something.
43:07
Speaker 2: He was living in Harvard in Britain, sorry, in North America,
43:15
Speaker 2: and he was an anthropologist, and then he went to
43:19
Speaker 2: he went on a trip to the Arctic, and he
43:23
Speaker 2: decided either be God lost or he wanted to stay
43:26
Speaker 2: there with them. And he then lived with them for
43:30
Speaker 2: four or five years. And when he came back to
43:32
Speaker 2: New York, he said, well, I've lived on animal produce
43:36
Speaker 2: for five years. They said, no, you'll have scurvy. And
43:39
Speaker 2: he said, well, I haven't got scurvy. So he said, well,
43:41
Speaker 2: prove it to us that you shouldn't get scurvy. So
43:44
Speaker 2: they put him in hospital for three months and they
43:47
Speaker 2: fed him the diet that he claimed he was eating,
43:49
Speaker 2: and he was fine. They then let him out, but
43:52
Speaker 2: he was He promised it for the next nine months
43:55
Speaker 2: he wouldn't eat any other produce other than animals. At
44:00
Speaker 2: the end of the year he was fine and the
44:01
Speaker 2: paper was published, and then that diet stimulated a guy
44:08
Speaker 2: called Pennington to produce that diet and give it to
44:11
Speaker 2: patients in New York who were a piece, and that
44:15
Speaker 2: became the Pennington diet, and ultimately that became the Atkins diet,
44:20
Speaker 2: also from New York. So that was the way that
44:23
Speaker 2: the low CoV dit invaded North America. Yeah, and I'm
44:29
Speaker 2: just I have to think of the guy's name, and sorry,
44:32
Speaker 2: it escapes me for a moment.
44:33
Speaker 1: No, that's fine, it escapes me too. But then where
44:37
Speaker 1: does this whole cholesterol thing come from?
44:40
Speaker 2: M that comes from a guy called Atkins? Now what
44:45
Speaker 2: happened in the Sorry?
44:50
Speaker 1: Sorry, yes, that's right.
44:53
Speaker 2: So I've got very conclused. Atkins is the opposite. This
44:57
Speaker 2: is ansel Keyes Sorry, yeah, ansil keys. In the Second
45:02
Speaker 2: World War, he did a famous study in which he
45:06
Speaker 2: put religious objectors on a starvation diet for I think
45:11
Speaker 2: it was about six months, and he monitored what happened
45:14
Speaker 2: to them, and it was disastrous. The psychological effects of
45:18
Speaker 2: eating I think it was one thousand, five hundred calories.
45:22
Speaker 2: It was absolutely atrocious. Anyway, he became very famous because
45:25
Speaker 2: that was the famous starvation studies. So now he does
45:32
Speaker 2: the study. It's the end of the Second World War,
45:34
Speaker 2: and what happens is that President Roosevelt dies of a stroke,
45:40
Speaker 2: and because he's had a stroke and he's an American,
45:43
Speaker 2: suddenly the next President, Truman, says, but why can't we
45:46
Speaker 2: sort out this stroke issue? And he forms the National
45:50
Speaker 2: Institute of Health, which is now going to fund research,
45:53
Speaker 2: and the main focus of research is to understand why
45:57
Speaker 2: do you get cardi of ask at a disease and
45:58
Speaker 2: stroke because that had killed the former president, the previous president,
46:03
Speaker 2: and so a lot of money became available for doing research.
46:07
Speaker 2: And there was a guy called John Goffman who in
46:10
Speaker 2: the Second World War he had been looked at plutonium
46:14
Speaker 2: and uranium and how you separate them, and so he
46:16
Speaker 2: was a world authority on the way you detected chemicals.
46:22
Speaker 2: And at the end of the Second World War he
46:23
Speaker 2: went back to his university in southern California and he
46:29
Speaker 2: started using the same techniques and he said, you know,
46:31
Speaker 2: why don't I use this on blood? So he took
46:33
Speaker 2: blood samples and he analyzed them and then he said,
46:37
Speaker 2: my gosh, there's all these ways that fat is carried
46:40
Speaker 2: in the blood and he then classified these as LiPo proteins,
46:46
Speaker 2: and one of them was the cholesterol bearing LiPo protein.
46:51
Speaker 2: So now he could measure these things, and he noticed
46:55
Speaker 2: in heart disease patients there were two different types of
46:58
Speaker 2: heart disease patients. The one had a very high cholesterol
47:03
Speaker 2: and the others had a very high triglycerides. But though
47:07
Speaker 2: both those are both forms in which fat is carried
47:09
Speaker 2: in the bloodstream, and he noticed those who eat who
47:13
Speaker 2: had high triglycerides were the ones who had high carbohydrate
47:17
Speaker 2: diets and those who had the high cholesterol had high
47:20
Speaker 2: fat diets. So what he did next was he put
47:24
Speaker 2: people on the low carb diet and a low fat diet,
47:27
Speaker 2: and he clearly showed that on the low carbohydrate dart
47:31
Speaker 2: the triglyceride levels came shooting down, and on the low
47:35
Speaker 2: fat dart the cholesterol came down a little bit. And
47:39
Speaker 2: he concluded, be careful of putting people with high cholesterols
47:45
Speaker 2: and a high carbohydrate diet because you might shoot the
47:48
Speaker 2: truglysrites up and cause problems. So he was the person
47:53
Speaker 2: who should have led the drive on preventing heart disease.
48:00
Speaker 2: Sel Keys came along, and ansel keys had no future.
48:04
Speaker 2: And he picked up a magazine literally which had a
48:07
Speaker 2: World Health Organization figure, and in the figure it had
48:11
Speaker 2: twenty six countries and it showed what their fat intake was.
48:16
Speaker 2: The saturated fat intake was sorry, it was yeah, it
48:21
Speaker 2: was a saturated fat intake. And he looked at their
48:24
Speaker 2: connary heart disease rates. This is what the graph showed,
48:27
Speaker 2: and there was sort of a there was a big
48:29
Speaker 2: cluster of their values, but generally they sort of went
48:32
Speaker 2: up a little bit. So the more fat in the diet,
48:35
Speaker 2: the more heart disease in the country. And what he
48:38
Speaker 2: did was he selected out six which showed a linear relationship.
48:43
Speaker 2: So from the twenty six which were all over the place,
48:46
Speaker 2: he chose six which were a lovely straight line. And
48:48
Speaker 2: so they said, there you are. We now know what
48:50
Speaker 2: caused heart disease. It's fat intake, dietary fat intake in
48:54
Speaker 2: the dietary fat intake. And that became the gospel truth.
48:59
Speaker 2: And the point is that a relationship like that, you
49:04
Speaker 2: can't prove. That's not causation, that's association, and association doesn't
49:08
Speaker 2: prove causation. But the whole world was captured. The whole
49:12
Speaker 2: world was captured and they still are because if you
49:15
Speaker 2: ask your cardiologist, how do you know cholesterol causes heartis, oh, well,
49:19
Speaker 2: and sil Key's proved it, and I look at the
49:22
Speaker 2: stud graph and that's where they begin with. So that's
49:27
Speaker 2: where the cholesterol story begins. And unfortunately, what next happened
49:32
Speaker 2: was that in about the nineteen eighties, they discovered that
49:37
Speaker 2: there's people with very high cholesterol and they found a
49:41
Speaker 2: way to lower it with the statin drugs. And they said, well,
49:45
Speaker 2: you see it's obvious when you've got a very high cholesterol,
49:49
Speaker 2: you die young. And therefore, if we can take statins,
49:53
Speaker 2: these people are not going to die as young, et cetera.
49:55
Speaker 2: We can prevent heart disease. And I can tell you
49:58
Speaker 2: that's to this very day, there's no one clear bit
50:02
Speaker 2: of evidence that statins can prevent or reverse heart disease.
50:09
Speaker 2: They have a tiny effect, and the effect may be
50:11
Speaker 2: some other way, but their benefit is trivial. But yet
50:15
Speaker 2: they've generated trillions of dollars of income for industry, and
50:21
Speaker 2: so industry makes sure that the story continues to be
50:26
Speaker 2: kept going. The problem is that all the research that
50:29
Speaker 2: is done on statins is done by people who have
50:31
Speaker 2: a conflict of interest. The funding comes from the industry
50:34
Speaker 2: and it's paid to the cordiologists who have a conflict
50:37
Speaker 2: of interest because they want to show that the statins work.
50:42
Speaker 2: And there's almost no independent studies because the cost too
50:46
Speaker 2: much to run. And that's sorry, and then let me
50:51
Speaker 2: just finish that up. The National Institute of Health has
50:55
Speaker 2: helped because they have not funded any alternative explanations for
50:59
Speaker 2: what causes heart disease. So if today you have colonary
51:03
Speaker 2: artery disease and you ask what's the cause, O, it's cholesterol.
51:07
Speaker 2: What's secure old statins? So then you go and look
51:10
Speaker 2: at the science and you say, but actually statins don't
51:12
Speaker 2: prevent it, they don't reverse it. So what else can
51:15
Speaker 2: I do? No, just take more statins. So that's and
51:18
Speaker 2: that it's stopped research for about forty years, and no
51:23
Speaker 2: one's had the courage until very recently to go and
51:28
Speaker 2: try and explain what's causing arterial disease.
51:32
Speaker 1: You know what a major thread here is tim is
51:36
Speaker 1: science really does seems to be very broken.
51:40
Speaker 2: Totally broken. And you know, Robert Kennedy is trying to
51:44
Speaker 2: address it now in the United States and he's doing
51:46
Speaker 2: amazing work and he could reverse everything in the next
51:50
Speaker 2: two to four years. But it is absolutely broken. And
51:55
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sure you've you've had people on vaccines
51:59
Speaker 2: and so on, and that is that science is so
52:03
Speaker 2: poor as well because it generates so much income.
52:06
Speaker 1: And so are you Are you suggesting to that when
52:11
Speaker 1: we hear about good and bad cholesterol, it doesn't really matter.
52:14
Speaker 1: We shouldn't really worry about cholesterol because if we eat
52:17
Speaker 1: a low carbohydrate diet, whether cholesterol is low or high,
52:20
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter because we are going to be healthy.
52:23
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, yeah, you so, well, that's really interesting because there's
52:27
Speaker 2: a study currently going on and it's caused a huge furor,
52:31
Speaker 2: and because we still don't know the fourth story. But
52:35
Speaker 2: there's a guy called David Feldtman in North America and
52:39
Speaker 2: he began experimenting on himself and he could change his
52:42
Speaker 2: cholesterol from being very bad, very high, to being very
52:47
Speaker 2: low in one day.
52:48
Speaker 1: Yes, I saw that Sunday.
52:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, just by fasting or eating more cabs and say
52:54
Speaker 2: he said, well, clearly this is your Cholesterol's got something
52:58
Speaker 2: to do with energy transfer in the body. And so
53:02
Speaker 2: then you identified a group of people who are very
53:05
Speaker 2: lean who eat the zero carbohydrate diets and who have
53:09
Speaker 2: astronomically high cholesterol levels. And it's very clear what's happening
53:14
Speaker 2: is that the body transport fat around the body and
53:18
Speaker 2: it uses the cholesterol containing lipoprotein LDL cholesterol and sorry,
53:26
Speaker 2: the VLDL cholesterol. That's the bigger protein, sorry, the bigger lipoprotein,
53:32
Speaker 2: and that travels around the body and it delivers fat
53:36
Speaker 2: to where it's needed and then it gets turned into
53:38
Speaker 2: LDL cholesterol. So what happens is that this is what's
53:42
Speaker 2: being measured LDL cholesterol, but it comes from the bigger molecule.
53:47
Speaker 2: And what happens, it seems and people eat high fat diets,
53:51
Speaker 2: is that they produce more of this and then it
53:54
Speaker 2: travels around and so they get left with more of
53:57
Speaker 2: the LDL cholesterol. And so that's but it's all to
54:02
Speaker 2: do with transport of energy around the body, and it's
54:05
Speaker 2: fat energy. And if you to put those people on
54:08
Speaker 2: a high corbohydrate dot with the cholesterol drops dramatically. In fact,
54:12
Speaker 2: the funniest study was done by chap called Nick Norvitz,
54:15
Speaker 2: who is an exile African or his father and I
54:19
Speaker 2: tourt his father at UCT.
54:21
Speaker 1: And he ate twenty four eggs a day.
54:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is even a funnier studies. He because
54:26
Speaker 2: he's one of these groups who gets his high cholesterol
54:30
Speaker 2: and he ate twelve oreos, which are those little biscuits,
54:34
Speaker 2: and his cholesterol came rocketing down he as predicted by
54:37
Speaker 2: the model. So then he went back on his high
54:40
Speaker 2: fat diet and then he took a staaten. Now it's
54:44
Speaker 2: going to really work. He hardly changed his cholesterol. So
54:47
Speaker 2: he said, see, oreoles are better than statins. Oreos are
54:51
Speaker 2: better than statins for loaning your cholesterol. So so anyway,
54:56
Speaker 2: the controversy is the following that when they did the
54:59
Speaker 2: first st of these people and looked at their archeries
55:03
Speaker 2: to see how much ploque there was, they found that
55:06
Speaker 2: was no different from other populations. So that was very
55:11
Speaker 2: encouraging because they had a group who'd been eating the dart,
55:15
Speaker 2: the carnival diart for four or five years, and their
55:18
Speaker 2: arteries looked just the same as everyone else. They weren't
55:20
Speaker 2: worse and they weren't better. But you know, because there's
55:24
Speaker 2: so many other factors, that was looking good. Unfortunately, they've
55:28
Speaker 2: now studied one hundred people and it looks like, for
55:32
Speaker 2: whatever reason, in the in the year that's gone though
55:37
Speaker 2: their ploqu increased more than in some other people. So
55:42
Speaker 2: now they're saying, actually, they published this paper and all
55:46
Speaker 2: the antagon the antagonists to the low corb ardect I said, see,
55:51
Speaker 2: your arterial damage is occurring more quickly on the low
55:55
Speaker 2: carb diet or the Carnival diet. And now within a
56:00
Speaker 2: week someone had taken those original paper and reproduced it
56:03
Speaker 2: and said massively rapid increase in atherosclerosis as a result
56:10
Speaker 2: of the Carnival dart. But they weren't even the researchers,
56:12
Speaker 2: as I understand it. So it's it's very much open
56:16
Speaker 2: at the moment. But the reality is that even if
56:19
Speaker 2: it was more rapid, it was quite slow. The progression
56:22
Speaker 2: was relatively slow. But why is the study important? Because
56:26
Speaker 2: not everyone showed the same response. That's the key. So
56:30
Speaker 2: now they've got a population where they've got some are
56:32
Speaker 2: progressing a bit quicker than others, And what's the question
56:36
Speaker 2: they need to ask now is okay, why are those
56:38
Speaker 2: people progressing rapidly and why are this group not progressing
56:43
Speaker 2: at all? That becomes a key question, and that's a
56:46
Speaker 2: Nobel Prize winning question which no one has ever addressed.
56:51
Speaker 2: It's always, oh, look, lesterol's elevated, you're going to get
56:53
Speaker 2: rapid growth of but that we know that's not true
56:57
Speaker 2: because your cholesterol values are very pro predictor of how
57:01
Speaker 2: your disease progresses. So this is really exciting work, and
57:05
Speaker 2: at the moment it's being used by the people anti
57:08
Speaker 2: low cops to say you better get off that low
57:11
Speaker 2: cob died. But let me just come back for the
57:13
Speaker 2: final point that we spoke about Craft and his way
57:17
Speaker 2: of diagnosing diabetes, which was now detect everyone, detects everyone.
57:21
Speaker 2: If you have diabetes or pre dibies, he will detect it.
57:25
Speaker 2: And he said they did autopsies on everyone that they
57:27
Speaker 2: did with that people died and they'd got their testing,
57:32
Speaker 2: and he said, not one of them didn't have diabetes.
57:35
Speaker 2: So not one of them with arterial disease did not
57:38
Speaker 2: have diabetes. And that's the traditional teaching is that diabetes
57:43
Speaker 2: is the cause of arterial disease, but medicine has never
57:46
Speaker 2: accepted it because the treatment of diabetes is dietary. It's
57:50
Speaker 2: not statins.
57:52
Speaker 1: And that's that guy you mentioned and ignor It's or whatever.
57:56
Speaker 1: I think. He's a Harvard medical student and that's right.
58:00
Speaker 1: He ate something like seven hundred and thirty eggs or
58:05
Speaker 1: twenty four eggs per day or seven hundred and thirty
58:08
Speaker 1: in a month or whatever it was, and then he
58:11
Speaker 1: checked his cholesterol and it dropped by something like twenty percent,
58:16
Speaker 1: which is interesting because when I was growing up, there
58:20
Speaker 1: was this fear of eating too many eggs.
58:24
Speaker 2: Well, and sol Keys actually published evidence showing a key
58:27
Speaker 2: that sorry that egg intake made no difference, So we've
58:30
Speaker 2: actually known that. But it's it doesn't fit the model
58:35
Speaker 2: because there's a bit more cholesterol and eggs. And of course,
58:38
Speaker 2: you know, an egg is a living would be a
58:42
Speaker 2: living being, it's got all the nutrients you need, and
58:45
Speaker 2: cholesterol is one of the key nutrients you need in
58:47
Speaker 2: your body.
58:49
Speaker 1: But I don't understand the biology. So forgive me for
58:53
Speaker 1: what might be a stupid question. But if you're consuming
58:55
Speaker 1: let's say eggs, and it has cholesterol in it, and
58:59
Speaker 1: your body produces its own cholesterol, it does it actually
59:03
Speaker 1: absorb that cholesterol or does it just get rid of it?
59:06
Speaker 2: No, it does absorb it. But what it does is
59:09
Speaker 2: just produces your own production of cholesterol, so that the
59:13
Speaker 2: total coming into the body will be the same, it's
59:16
Speaker 2: just replaced by what you're taking in, so it doesn't
59:21
Speaker 2: add and it doesn't increase above that.
59:24
Speaker 1: Yes, I see what you're saying, but I mean cholesterol's critical.
59:28
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Your brain is mainly cholesterol. And that's what people
59:33
Speaker 2: won't tell you that if the dementia starts after the
59:37
Speaker 2: statins get start getting used. So there's been this incredible
59:41
Speaker 2: increase in dementia in the last thirty years, and it's
59:45
Speaker 2: exactly starts when they start prescribing statins. And statins absolutely
59:50
Speaker 2: destroy cholesterol metabolism in the cells and in the brain.
59:53
Speaker 2: They will do it, and no one really worries about that.
59:57
Speaker 2: But that's one of the reasons why you shouldn't be
59:59
Speaker 2: taken part than the fact that they're not effective.
1:00:02
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw two more questions at you before
1:00:04
Speaker 1: we come in from landing. I've kept these too. I've
1:00:07
Speaker 1: kept these two for lost.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: I'm up for it. Okay.
1:00:12
Speaker 1: This one gets every feather ruffled. And that is fruit. Yes,
1:00:22
Speaker 1: we were always told that fruit is healthy, we must
1:00:25
Speaker 1: eat lots of fruit.
1:00:29
Speaker 2: Well that is absolute nonsense, you know, because humans co
1:00:33
Speaker 2: evolved with fruits that were not what they are today.
1:00:37
Speaker 2: They were small and bitter, and so if you ate them,
1:00:41
Speaker 2: you might eat a few bites, but you wouldn't eat
1:00:44
Speaker 2: what you eat today. So all the fruits have been
1:00:48
Speaker 2: genetically engineered to be full of fructose and sweetness. And
1:00:53
Speaker 2: fructose is a real problem because it's metabolized differently from glucose,
1:00:59
Speaker 2: and it's con vert it into fat in the liver,
1:01:02
Speaker 2: and so there are some people who will overproduce liver
1:01:06
Speaker 2: fat from fructose and then they get the condition called
1:01:10
Speaker 2: non alcoholic faty liver disease, which is a precursor to
1:01:17
Speaker 2: diabetes and chronic disease. And fructose is one of the
1:01:21
Speaker 2: key drivers of that condition. So to tell people to
1:01:26
Speaker 2: eat more fruit and eat more fructose is simply nonsensical.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: Okay. So then by extension, if you go into a
1:01:35
Speaker 1: store and the fruit looks beautiful, that's probably a bad sign.
1:01:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely a bad sign. Yeah, because you're getting a massive
1:01:44
Speaker 2: carbohydrate load and you're getting a large fructose load, and
1:01:48
Speaker 2: you just you can do that for a few few years,
1:01:51
Speaker 2: couple of decays, but eventually the system wears out because
1:01:55
Speaker 2: every time you do that, you spike your glucose and
1:01:58
Speaker 2: you spike your insulin. So the pank because has to
1:02:01
Speaker 2: secrete more insulin. And guess what. The insiint has effects
1:02:04
Speaker 2: throughout the body, and the more you secrete the insulin,
1:02:08
Speaker 2: the more the cells become resistant to it. So you
1:02:11
Speaker 2: need more and more insulin to get the same effect.
1:02:14
Speaker 2: And that's what we call insign resistance because ultimately the
1:02:18
Speaker 2: cells no longer respond or they respond poorly to insulin.
1:02:22
Speaker 2: And then the problem is that the instint's acting on
1:02:24
Speaker 2: all these cells and sometimes it's a good effect, but
1:02:27
Speaker 2: sometimes it's a bad effect. Some tissues, it's a bad effect,
1:02:31
Speaker 2: and that's what resistance is.
1:02:33
Speaker 1: Some would you agree then that a general rule of
1:02:39
Speaker 1: thumb is if it's sweet, avoid it.
1:02:41
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, because it's attacking your brain and it's giving
1:02:46
Speaker 2: you pleasure, and it's going to be very difficult to
1:02:50
Speaker 2: stop that. So you're going to eat calories, you're going
1:02:54
Speaker 2: to put on weight by and large. I mean not
1:02:56
Speaker 2: everyone knows, but most people will. And then you can
1:03:00
Speaker 2: want to stop and it's difficult.
1:03:02
Speaker 1: So if you do want to eat fruit, you know,
1:03:05
Speaker 1: go for like a gooseberry, which tends to be a
1:03:07
Speaker 1: lot more sour, for example, than say a strawberry.
1:03:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, blueberries are probably the ones that are most
1:03:15
Speaker 2: prescribed this on the banting diet. But no fruit is
1:03:20
Speaker 2: It's an absolute no no for most people.
1:03:22
Speaker 1: Okay, so keep keep fruit to a minimum. And then
1:03:24
Speaker 1: my final question, Tim, this is a tricky one. I
1:03:28
Speaker 1: have a love hate relationship with this one. Supplements. I
1:03:33
Speaker 1: don't take any supplements, but I know that some people do.
1:03:38
Speaker 1: What are your views on this?
1:03:42
Speaker 2: I think that supplements are useful. And the reason I
1:03:47
Speaker 2: say that is because it's an under researched area, because
1:03:50
Speaker 2: supplements are not part of the pharmaceuial industry. But I
1:03:54
Speaker 2: was influenced by a study of stat We're the control group,
1:03:57
Speaker 2: which was a statin using group, and the control group
1:04:00
Speaker 2: were given a multi vitamin and they, as I recall,
1:04:03
Speaker 2: they did as well or if not better than the
1:04:05
Speaker 2: statin group. And so that surprised me. And there are
1:04:09
Speaker 2: some other studies of multi vitamins seem to be beneficial.
1:04:14
Speaker 2: But if you simply take it, if most people today
1:04:18
Speaker 2: have low vitamin D levels, and this was certainly brought
1:04:21
Speaker 2: out in COVID that if you had a high vitamin
1:04:24
Speaker 2: D your survival was one hundred percent, but if you
1:04:26
Speaker 2: had low vitamin D there was a significant mortality, and
1:04:31
Speaker 2: that's something that you can correct. So vitamin D, to me,
1:04:35
Speaker 2: is something that could be beneficial. Vitamin K two usually
1:04:39
Speaker 2: goes with vitamin D, and that can give you a
1:04:41
Speaker 2: bone strength and maintain bone strength. So those are two vitamins.
1:04:45
Speaker 2: I think that you could make a case, a scientific case,
1:04:49
Speaker 2: that they would be beneficial. If you're a surfer and
1:04:52
Speaker 2: you live in the sun all day, then you don't
1:04:55
Speaker 2: need vitamin D. But for most of us, we spend
1:04:58
Speaker 2: too much time inside and we don't get enough sunlight.
1:05:02
Speaker 2: And the other one, I think, which is really is interesting,
1:05:08
Speaker 2: and I come to it sort of indirectly that a
1:05:13
Speaker 2: lot of people say the cholesterol molecule that's important, or
1:05:16
Speaker 2: the vlipid moleculars APO B. And what apo B does
1:05:21
Speaker 2: is it's one of the firemen that try to sort
1:05:23
Speaker 2: out problems in the arteries if there's a puncture or whatever,
1:05:26
Speaker 2: or there's inflammation. And APO B is a substitute for
1:05:32
Speaker 2: vitamin C. And humans don't produce vitamin C whereas many
1:05:37
Speaker 2: other mammals do. We lost the capacity to produce vitamin C,
1:05:42
Speaker 2: and so I'm just wondering if maybe chronic vitamin C
1:05:45
Speaker 2: deficiency not enough to call scurvy could also be behind
1:05:49
Speaker 2: some of the arterial damage that we see. And so
1:05:53
Speaker 2: that's the third one that one could take. I personally
1:05:58
Speaker 2: take nato Kinos, which is kind of a naturopathic staaten,
1:06:03
Speaker 2: and that's got some good evidence that it's if you're
1:06:07
Speaker 2: going to take a statin, as many people would like
1:06:10
Speaker 2: to take a statin, that actually this is a more
1:06:13
Speaker 2: effective dragon. It doesn't have the complications and side effects.
1:06:17
Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to say is that there are
1:06:20
Speaker 2: some some supplements that are maybe helpful. And one of
1:06:26
Speaker 2: the general practitioners who I'm very friendly with, who is
1:06:29
Speaker 2: practice naturopathic medicine, he takes about twenty five supplements a
1:06:33
Speaker 2: day and he's doing well in his eighties. He's looking fantastic.
1:06:37
Speaker 2: So that's.
1:06:40
Speaker 1: So. Would you say then that if you are able
1:06:43
Speaker 1: to source grass fed meat and you spend time in
1:06:49
Speaker 1: the sun, and you generally avoid carb irates and sugar,
1:06:54
Speaker 1: you probably don't need supplements.
1:06:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely what what I would say. And I
1:07:01
Speaker 2: was saying if your whole lifestyle is not perfect and
1:07:05
Speaker 2: the food is not perfect, and you're not out there
1:07:08
Speaker 2: in the sun, those vitamin D seems to be a
1:07:10
Speaker 2: very critical hormone in the body, and the prevalence of
1:07:17
Speaker 2: vitamin D deficiency is very high, So that seems to
1:07:21
Speaker 2: me that you could make a good case for that.
1:07:23
Speaker 2: And I just mentioned vitamin C because it's interesting that
1:07:26
Speaker 2: humans don't synthesize it. And then I've told you don't
1:07:30
Speaker 2: eat fruit and that's where you're going to get the
1:07:31
Speaker 2: vitamin C from. So that was probably the other reason
1:07:35
Speaker 2: why I would say vitamin C might be beneficial.
1:07:40
Speaker 1: I said, that is my last question, but I lied,
1:07:42
Speaker 1: I have one more good And the reason why this
1:07:45
Speaker 1: is the reason why this one's coming up is because
1:07:48
Speaker 1: this is probably a vice coffee. What do you know
1:07:55
Speaker 1: about coffee?
1:07:56
Speaker 2: Tim Okay, Well, I have never seen in a single
1:08:00
Speaker 2: study showing that coffee might be harmful, and that's the
1:08:04
Speaker 2: only difference is caffeinism and if you do if some
1:08:08
Speaker 2: people get over stimulated get anxious with caffeine. But otherwise
1:08:14
Speaker 2: every study suggests but again these are associational studies. In otherwise,
1:08:18
Speaker 2: people who take more coffee look like they're a little
1:08:20
Speaker 2: bit healthier, but that could be because of other reasons.
1:08:23
Speaker 2: Maybe coffee is expensive and they live in a particular culture,
1:08:27
Speaker 2: and population that is healthy already, and they do lots
1:08:30
Speaker 2: of exercise, and they don't eat processed foods and so on.
1:08:35
Speaker 2: But on that basis, there's no evidence to suggest that
1:08:39
Speaker 2: caffeine is bad for you.
1:08:40
Speaker 1: We know that in cycling, for example, they considered coffee
1:08:45
Speaker 1: as a contraband.
1:08:47
Speaker 2: I don't think that's entirely correct. What they do say
1:08:51
Speaker 2: is that caffeine above a certain dose is acting as
1:08:55
Speaker 2: a stimulant, which it does. I mean, it does act
1:08:57
Speaker 2: as a stimulant. But they wouldn't stop caffeine, and I
1:09:03
Speaker 2: think Coca Cola can or I understand that coke once
1:09:08
Speaker 2: upon a time included caffeine, and Coke is one of
1:09:11
Speaker 2: the big sponsors of the Olympic Games. So there's no
1:09:14
Speaker 2: way they were ever going to say you can't have
1:09:15
Speaker 2: any caffeine. So I think there may well be that
1:09:19
Speaker 2: a little bit that if you really dozed up on caffeine,
1:09:24
Speaker 2: But like all things, it's it's not likely that you're
1:09:27
Speaker 2: going to get better and better and better the more
1:09:28
Speaker 2: caffeine you take. But to answer your question, there's no
1:09:32
Speaker 2: evidence for a bad health effect. It does improve physical performance,
1:09:37
Speaker 2: that's true, but there's probably a limit to how much
1:09:41
Speaker 2: you need to improve your performance.
1:09:43
Speaker 1: It's so confusing to me because coffee is one of
1:09:45
Speaker 1: the most popular beverages in the world, and it seems
1:09:49
Speaker 1: to be a bit mysterious.
1:09:53
Speaker 2: Mysterious in what way, Well, in the sense.
1:09:56
Speaker 1: That they don't really well from what you're saying, they
1:09:58
Speaker 1: don't really know if it has negative or positive effects
1:10:01
Speaker 1: on on on your body.
1:10:05
Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely a stimulant, which you could say is
1:10:07
Speaker 2: a positive and wakes you up and keeps you active
1:10:13
Speaker 2: and alert during the day. So I think it probably
1:10:17
Speaker 2: is highly studied and maybe the what the answer is
1:10:22
Speaker 2: that no one's come up and said it's bad, Right,
1:10:25
Speaker 2: that's if that come up.
1:10:32
Speaker 1: Okay, Tim, If if I were to ask you for
1:10:36
Speaker 1: a nugget of wisdom, what would you say.
1:10:40
Speaker 2: Well, that's great. I think your lifestyle is very important
1:10:45
Speaker 2: in in your long term health and the the food
1:10:50
Speaker 2: is more important than the exercise, but both. But exercise
1:10:54
Speaker 2: improves your your functioning and is terribly important as well. Yeah,
1:11:00
Speaker 2: it's interesting. I'm just preparing a talk for a schoolboy
1:11:04
Speaker 2: audience and you know, I don't know quite well I'll
1:11:08
Speaker 2: take this. But what's interesting is that what you don't
1:11:15
Speaker 2: know in life is how people influence your life at
1:11:17
Speaker 2: a distance. And so it turns out that a lot
1:11:23
Speaker 2: of people influence my life, but at a huge distance.
1:11:27
Speaker 2: And I never met these people. And the one person
1:11:32
Speaker 2: who I only now realized because I was reading another
1:11:35
Speaker 2: article is the guy who started Nike running shoe business,
1:11:41
Speaker 2: Phil Knight. Now why was that so? What Phil Knight
1:11:46
Speaker 2: did was that in the nineteen sixties he realized that
1:11:52
Speaker 2: the German cameras were getting surpassed by the Japanese cameras,
1:11:59
Speaker 2: and the only sh hues of any value in America
1:12:02
Speaker 2: were German shoes because you couldn't get Japanese shoes. But
1:12:07
Speaker 2: he saw that there was a Japanese shoe which was
1:12:09
Speaker 2: pretty good, and so he went. He said, will the
1:12:14
Speaker 2: Japanese running shoes do for running shoes what the Japanese
1:12:19
Speaker 2: cameras had done for Japanese camera for world camera sales.
1:12:24
Speaker 2: So he went to America to Japan by chance, and
1:12:29
Speaker 2: he met these guys who were making these shoes and
1:12:31
Speaker 2: he said, oh, well, we've got this big business called
1:12:35
Speaker 2: Blue Ribbon Sports, which he did not have. It was
1:12:37
Speaker 2: a completely complete fake, and we'd like to import your shoes,
1:12:41
Speaker 2: and so that. The Japanese said, fine, so they imported
1:12:44
Speaker 2: the shoes, took a year to come and anyway, eventually
1:12:47
Speaker 2: they started making better shoes. And what did that? Do
1:12:51
Speaker 2: you see? They didn't just make shoes. They suddenly realized
1:12:54
Speaker 2: it's no good having shoes which you haven't got a market.
1:12:57
Speaker 2: So he had to make the running market. And what
1:13:00
Speaker 2: he did was he professionalized running by sponsoring their athletes.
1:13:05
Speaker 2: And before that all competitors were amateurs. So the Olympic
1:13:09
Speaker 2: Games is completely amateur and the first sort of other
1:13:13
Speaker 2: sport outside of tennis and rugby cricket. Cricket was professional
1:13:18
Speaker 2: then or did have professional components, but the only sport
1:13:23
Speaker 2: in the Olympics that now was becoming professionalized was running,
1:13:28
Speaker 2: and so eventually the Olympics had to accept professional athletes.
1:13:32
Speaker 2: Now what this did was this stimulated sports science, so
1:13:37
Speaker 2: because now there were athletes who wanted to be trained
1:13:40
Speaker 2: and they wanted to know how to train better. The
1:13:43
Speaker 2: East Germans were becoming very successful, and the Americans said,
1:13:45
Speaker 2: we can't allow the East Germans to be successful. We
1:13:48
Speaker 2: must invest in sports science, and that became my profession.
1:13:51
Speaker 2: At the very moment that he was developing the Nike business.
1:13:56
Speaker 2: I was out there starting sports science a massive impact
1:14:01
Speaker 2: on me. So the point of the story is that
1:14:04
Speaker 2: an individual makes a huge difference. Individuals do everything they
1:14:07
Speaker 2: make the difference. So that was the first point, and
1:14:10
Speaker 2: the other points which I've realized is you have to
1:14:15
Speaker 2: tell the truth and that's all that's important. And what
1:14:19
Speaker 2: we've done is expose these untruths. And so when I've
1:14:23
Speaker 2: attacked or showed these untruths through the scientific method, that
1:14:27
Speaker 2: makes me suspicious of all the stuff that we're being
1:14:30
Speaker 2: told today. And I realized that ninety percent is propaganda
1:14:34
Speaker 2: and it's got nothing to do with truth. That's the
1:14:36
Speaker 2: second message that's important. And the third thing is to
1:14:43
Speaker 2: obviously have self belief. That's one of the things we
1:14:46
Speaker 2: showed was that the brain is the mind's in control
1:14:49
Speaker 2: and you achieve what you think you can achieve, and
1:14:53
Speaker 2: that's terribly important as well.
1:14:55
Speaker 1: Tim, how can I follow you?
1:14:59
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm active on Twitter or x and it's
1:15:03
Speaker 2: Prof Tim Noakes or at Prof Tim Noakes, and I
1:15:07
Speaker 2: also have another one which is more sports related at
1:15:09
Speaker 2: law Running. And the reason was because I was expelled
1:15:12
Speaker 2: from Twitter for making the point that a French politician
1:15:18
Speaker 2: had said, none of the other French politicians were vaccinated,
1:15:22
Speaker 2: but he was charged with something. He got injured. That's right,
1:15:25
Speaker 2: he was injured. He got vaccinated, got injured, and he said,
1:15:29
Speaker 2: but all these other creeps are telling me to get
1:15:31
Speaker 2: vaccinated and they didn't get vaccinated themselves. So I was
1:15:35
Speaker 2: thrown off with retweeting that story, and it took about
1:15:41
Speaker 2: it took about six months to get back on again,
1:15:43
Speaker 2: and it was only after Musket had bought bought the
1:15:48
Speaker 2: X or bought Twitter that I was allowed back on again.
1:15:52
Speaker 2: So that's the one. Otherwise, the Noakes Foundation and the
1:15:55
Speaker 2: Nutrition Network, those are the two things that I'm more
1:15:59
Speaker 2: active in today, having retired twelve years ago or some all.
1:16:04
Speaker 1: On that note, Tim Noakes, thank you for joining me
1:16:07
Speaker 1: in the trenches.
1:16:08
Speaker 2: Fantastic JEM. Always a pleasure, loved enjoying it. Love chatting
1:16:12
Speaker 2: to you, and best wishes to your audience.