Latest / Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast / The Dark Truth Special Forces Operators Won't Talk About | Dave Morrow

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The Dark Truth Special Forces Operators Won't Talk About | Dave Morrow · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

• 0:00
  (Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hello friends, I'm your host Chris Thrull. I'm a former Royal Marines commando I've adventured for better and sometimes worse across 80 countries on all seven continents Welcome to the Port the T-Shirt Podcast Dave how you doing brother? Chris I'm doing great man. Thanks for having me on the show. Oh, it's absolutely my delight I was um, I did a little intro bit there just because as I said earlier I was listening to your podcast and in the garden while I was getting a bit of vitamin D Can you
• 0:44
  just remind us the name of the podcast day so we can give them a shout out? Yeah, absolutely So I was on the American grit podcast that's the grunt style foundations podcast and they're doing a lot of great work in the United States and they invited me down to Discuss my book pardon the fuck up Absolutely folks, I'll flash that podcast up on the screen in a minute Dave if you see me looking over there, I'm not being rude I got three screens on the go plus my plus some notes down here But
• 1:13
  friends. Yeah, I was listening to Dave chatting there and it was it was kind of like listening to myself And it's just so great when when veterans get it because the mental health crisis is just not funny the last friend I Had who killed himself was what was a three weeks ago now a dear chap the last Facebook message he lent he wrote me was when I was rowing across the Atlantic in January and he he said Chris Yeah, you're such a massive legend Yeah, you're an inspiration to veterans everywhere
• 1:51
  or or something like like this and I wrote back no, you're the legend dude, and I really meant it and To think he was in that frame of mind when he wrote that very kind thing to me that he then went and took it and he left an awfully sad Facebook post before he went and everyone with there was thousands of Responses to that Facebook post Dave saying dude. No, don't do it. You know, you you're massively loved It's never the way did it so to hear you talking about on that podcast day was a you
• 2:26
  know A breath of fresh air. So welcome to the border t-shirt podcast. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, the Veteran suicide crisis is no joke and we're just chatting offline there before. Yeah, we hit record It's kind of like oh there's crisis over there. That's so sad too bad. All right Well, what's next and it's because of that indifference that I decided to start talking On my own show and start writing books and you know I attacked the suicide crisis from the point of view that we just need to get out
• 2:56
  here That's what I know. So I stick to what I know and I'm sure we'll get into a bunch of it on this conversation for sure Absolutely. So I had two chaps on my Podcast they're from a UK Veterans organisation they offer kind of, you know Respite and recovery sort of packages and they just got back from the United States and they said Chris in the States They call it the thing behind the thing and as soon as he said I knew I knew what he was talking about childhood trauma He means the thing that
• 3:33
  like no one's talking about this day But everyone thinks PTSD is something you get on the battlefield, you know, whereas as you know, and I know Yeah unpleasant things atrocious things happen on the battlefield But it's would you agree Dave it's it's Trauma in our in our younger years that gives us this kind of inability in adulthood to process things in in a in a kind Of constructive way. I think you're bang on the the research and this isn't something I Really go down any rabbit holes on but
• 4:09
  from what I understand It's it's over 50% of those that suffer from post-traumatic stress in the military anyways, and the military attracts Especially in the in the special forces ranks dudes that have experienced childhood trauma like that is a known Factor and why I think it's because and you know, you can fact-check me on this But it's because you create this kind of Superman complex. I'm not gonna let anybody else get hurt. Nobody's gonna touch my family I'm gonna be the baddest
• 4:37
  motherfucker you could possibly imagine So I'm going to join the baddest unit that exists whether it's you know here in Canada. It's JTF to or in the UK It's the Royal Marines or SAS or in the States the seals, whatever it may be You have guys that have a chip on their shoulder. They want to protect so they join a sheepdog unit even more so than the regular infantry guys, you know, I was a infantry sergeant, but the From my point of view, you know, I didn't experience childhood trauma like a
• 5:06
  lot of these other guys did so I think I Got out a little bit more unscathed and I think you're right the the layering and the best Analogy I learned was like it's like you got a backpack and you won't you got so many rock rocks in your rucksack and then You add in the wartime Trauma that comes with it and now your rucksack is way too hip and it's just weighing you down It's weighing you down weighing you down till it gets too much You need to learn how to take those rocks out and lighten the
• 5:32
  load give it to your bottle buddies You know give it to your family like there's people there that want to help and you got to be willing to offload it and I think that's where Where we're at in terms of healing from the 20 years of the global war on terror We need to start getting to that point where we're no longer in crisis We're in that healing phase and that's that's where I hope to lend a lend a hand Dave let's tell your story a bit because you know, you're no stranger to Challenges, I
• 5:59
  love the bit about you know, somebody who's done. I did four iron men in a row. Oh I Read that it took me seven days, but I'd be though Sorry, I'm I'm fucking show showing off. But no, I I'm not showing off. I'm making a point that Yeah, we do go to extremes. Don't we and can we just Tell your story because some some gold stuff comes out of it. Yeah Well, I mean for Ironman's and let's back to back to back to back to back is is impressive Chris not gonna lie I don't know if you're familiar with
• 6:35
  the Iron Cowboy who did who did 52 in a row did 50 and yeah And all in all 50 states, I believe is the documentaries on Netflix Canadian, by the way Yeah, so that I mean yeah, I did I did an Ironman and it's funny It's probably because of our military background right for me. I'm like, yeah, I just did an Ironman where most You talk to let's say civilians, oh my god, you didn't iron man's like yeah, whatever no big deal It's typically how we treat things right? You did four back-to-back. Oh my
• 7:08
  god for back-to-back. That's insane And that all came about for me through a promise I made myself when I was sitting on my bunk in Afghanistan in 2011 We had a pretty rough day and I said man if I make it back even if I'm missing body parts I'm doing the Ironman and I'm going to do it for you know Some of the guys we lost and just did to show like a man we can do this and I want to prove to myself I can do it as well. And I said we're gonna do it before my 40th birthday. I was 29 when I was
• 7:37
  deployed So in true day moral fashion, I I procrastinated until I was 39 years old To get the pressure on and do the Ironman. So that was 2021 I believe that or 2022 in the height of coded. It was pretty rough I mean, it was just lockdowns here were brutal in my province here in Canada and Quebec We had curfews and I was losing my mind But the thing that kept me sane was going out for early runs late bikes I was just solo our gyms were closed and I just was grinding out the miles and I Actually
• 8:13
  had to do it around my neighbourhood because the event I don't know if you're familiar with the event here Just outside Montreal. It's in Mont-Tremblant. It's one of the premier events on the circuit. It was cancelled last minute Oh, it's outside. Like guys, come on Like we're gonna wear masks when we go in the water with come on guys Like we're the fittest people on earth here There's no reason for us to cancel it that but they did and I wasn't gonna let all that training go to waste So I
• 8:39
  decided to do it around the house. I got my trustee second-in-command Take charge of logistics my wife. So she coordinated all the support It was awesome, but essentially what that led to I I'd started a business I started a small company that really focused around my first book Which was the nimble warrior to help veterans get out of the pain cave as I call it. I borrowed that term from dr Kelly Sturette because I Had a career-ending injury. I blew my back out and I blew my knee out and The
• 9:13
  military didn't want to hear any of my story. They're just like dude, you're hurt So long my what can I remaster? Can I join something else? Like please? I want to stay in. Nope. See ya so my Interpretation of that was I'm broken for life. That's it. There's nothing I can do the army said I'm done. I'm toast My back hurts all the time, you know, it's just constant pain meds They're giving me opiates and really didn't want to take them. I was getting chubby. It was just miserable I got back into
• 9:45
  teaching high school. That was my Career path anyways, and I wasn't doing well I had a kid I had a house you have mortgage young family and something just was off and One day I just decided enough's enough and in true infantry fashion I just quit my job and decided I'm gonna figure it out started working for a tech company That was a disaster and then I just started my own company just out of the blue and my wife God bless her like she's like, uh, are you sure about that? Yeah, yeah, honey,
• 10:17
  don't worry about it I can do anything right it was my mentality and So that's where the book came from and I started helping fellow veterans and guys at my old unit Just avoid injuries make their injuries a little bit more manageable Just through some basic techniques that you can do at home with a foam roller Some basic exercises that I wish I had learned because really it was because of those exercises I was able to get out of bed again and actually play with my kids. I was like, oh, I don't
• 10:44
  need to take pain That's oh, oh, that's great. Why didn't the army tell me this? So I realised there was something there and then that started the podcast. I love talking about science. I have a science background I was a teacher So I live I love conveying knowledge and I just always dreamed about talking to the coolest people that I've read about You know, like I've read their books I've listened to their podcast to have them line my show and just have a chat and that's what turned into my
• 11:12
  podcast the hard-to-kill podcast and so All that just moves back into the Ironman and all the other things that I've decided to take on in terms of physical challenges but also, you know entrepreneurial ones is basically part of the healing journey after After a tour in Afghanistan and a 15-year career in Canadian Armed Forces and to really give back The best way I know how which is conveying the knowledge that I've learned for veterans packaging it up So it's I speak veteran I think I speak it
• 11:39
  relatively well so that an individual can just grab on to something be like, right Got it. Check with my action steps. Boom. Boom. Boom. Okay, let's take that action step and let's actually get healthy And that's why I've committed to helping a hundred thousand veterans lose two million pounds. Yeah, it's Dave it's amazing and I want to so first of two quick question your your Back and did you say knee? Yeah. Yeah. Was that blown out in theatre or was that? Yes Yeah, so I mean I wish I could
• 12:10
  say it was like knee-deep and grenade pins and fighting off a horde of Taliban You know, but I literally just picked up my gear and my back herniated in two spots. Bang bang. Oh shit What's up young enough and had a big enough ego to be able to make it back to camp and I just swallowed Well advils. I don't know what you guys calling off colour motrins or over in the UK But essentially I just took pain meds while deployed didn't tell anybody right because I wanted to stay in theatre My knee was
• 12:37
  yeah, I fell off a one of those high walls there and just it just got twisted in the wrong spot and Putting me brace on, you know soldiered on and then later on down the road I think it was in 2019 around ish I went to the docks and like something wasn't something wasn't right in my head and they're like, oh dude Just you know post-traumatic stress man. I was like me. I was like nah, I was like I can't have post-traumatic Yeah, so Let's go do some programmes and let's start working on that So
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  yeah, all those things combined actually was a blessing because if it wasn't for those injuries I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing right now So I really leaned into stoic philosophy and Christianity really started realising like these are happening for me And I think that's one of my main messages I'm realising is that we just got to get rid of that hole in the veteran space like what was me? You know and it's a shame because you know You go down that path and I've had these thoughts to the
• 13:30
  dark thoughts, you know I've never attempted to take my own life, but I could see where it can go and you start believing The things that that dark voice in your mind is telling you go shit But I was able to recognise that's not where I want to go with this And so I was able to have that standoff distance But you know you were talking earlier about the conversation I had with Tim from run style When they're on a crusade to get the SSRIs out of the veteran community Because one of the major
• 13:59
  symptoms one of the major side effects of SSRIs is suicidal ideation And you know, he has a heartbreaking story of one of his good buddies He was a dad, you know, two or three kids doing great Actually went to the VA because he wanted to quit smoking. That was it They put him on wellbutrin a few weeks later. He blew his brains out like what the hell is going on and That's part of what I'm noticing too is that the veteran community is over medicated and it's gonna be very hard to heal when
• 14:29
  you're just put on these drugs and not give them any other protocol other than SSRIs and talk therapy and then you wonder why you're not getting better and then you still have a Devastating suicide crisis within the veteran community. I'm hoping to be able to bring some awareness to there's other there's other ways forward That are 100% within medical standards and we need to start talking about it and actually pushing our representatives to actually Allow us to get these treatments whether
• 14:59
  it's in the UK Canada or the United States so that we can actually heal and be Important productive members of our society because I think honestly, I think we're one of the most important generations Since the greatest generation because we went through all the shit that we were asked to do for 20 years We're still young we can still kick ass and take names Let us get into the fight because God knows we need a lot of us that Can actually contribute back in our societies because things are
• 15:23
  starting to fall apart pretty quickly. At least that's what I can see from here yeah, we'll come on to this destruction via immigration in a bit, but Was I gonna say so long story short in my cases Yeah, I was just I don't I couldn't really go any lower from drug addiction and I I don't I I come through chronic Psychosis, which I lived Sort of off and on in for about six months This is this is post-service. Yeah, this is how this is your typical come out the safety umbrella of the forces
• 15:59
  Realise you're still that little kid that joined the foot, you know, like nothing mentally apparate Apparatus as you guys would say wise not nothing has changed Nobody's put any, you know, okay, I can run fast and climb and shoot a rifle and You know, I'm mentally strong, but I don't know how to deal with things right and I'm simplifying this obviously for People that are coming at this that haven't had the experience but long story Short I I ended up homeless in Hong Kong in Psychosis from
• 16:35
  chronic crystal meth addiction whilst working In a Hong Kong nightclub as a as a door as a doorman And if you know who runs the Hong Kong nightclubs, you know, I I really was in a the wrong place to be mentally Unwell anyway fast forward back in the UK Just remember like probably my darkest moment. I was cold shivering Literally starving couldn't go any lover lower in nervous breakdown what must have been nervous breakdown I think number three by this time and I couldn't even go out the front
• 17:11
  door Dave. That's how damaged I was I I couldn't face seeing someone I knew because I didn't know what to say to them how to explain, you know And it anyway cut long story short in that moment. I suddenly realised what I'd done to myself Okay, albeit inadvertently or subconsciously or you could say the dark side what whatever but and I had to take ownership of it and as I cried my Eyes out. I said I'm I Pictured myself as that, you know damaged little toddler little boy that adults let him
• 17:45
  down, you know Adults you could say failed him and I thought Chris who's failing him now, dude. It's fucking you stop Shoving that shit in your arm and and you know, at least cut it down you you're not you're never gonna be an angel But start trying it and what happened is Literally as I thought this the light started shining through my blinds, which I always kept shut because you know My house was just trashed. I had Paraphernalia, you know that I shouldn't have done everywhere. I'm talking
• 18:18
  about drug paraphernalia and And as this light came in through the window Dave I made a promise I said I'm Gonna start being grateful for this life because I'm here and a lot of my buddies are dead now And in the military, as you know people die in horrible, you know, not not just related to theatre, but Horrendous when young young people die and I thought if they were here now, what would they do? Would they be they'd be embracing life? So that's what I did and I thought I'm gonna cut down you
• 18:54
  know, I'm gonna cut down on that stuff and Rather than spend all of my benefits money on it Which was not a lot. It was like 60 UK pounds of a week I think I was getting I thought I'm gonna spend a tenner a fortnight and when it's gone It's fucking gone. No chasing it No, like picking up the just when it's gone you you've had your little buzz you've had you we call it acting out and and what happened is is I I went off to sleep and I'm still you know heavily I I'm yet to do my come down as you
• 19:28
  can say, so I woke up in the morning Dave and Ordinarily where I literally would have rolled over in depression knowing that I had no gear left I had no enthusiasm that I could inject into me that I had to face life with no money No job smashed up hovel to live in and and my shopping budget was one pound seventy five you know like like literally less than ten bucks and and rather than roll over and go to sleep for another like two or three days just to just to try to fend off the chronic
• 20:05
  depression I Jumped up I threw the curtains open. I said morning son. Thank you so much for this opportunity called life And let's go and make a cup of tea, you know instead of like preparing a needle very British I went and I put the kettle on and it was symbolic very British, but it was symbolic Dave of taking action and that's what I did and Within no time at all the universe just started giving back to me Friends came back that I hadn't seen for ages and I I got work albeit I became a
• 20:44
  tobacco smuggler from Europe, but it was paid employee it was you know, respectful paid employment and I could buy clothes and and and you know, From that point on I've gone on to live work and travel in 85 countries across all seven continents And I've just done every single thing on the planet that I ever wanted to do whatever it was flying skydiving You know just rode across the Atlantic and I'm not saying this to show off. Although I suppose I am allowed to a bit I'm just saying the power
• 21:19
  of Stop being a victim. You're not a victim. You've had shit happens you be Grateful for it because it's taught you a lot and what I wanted to ask you David, you know in your way Did you have that moment or were things more sort of gradual? well I talked about it in my book there was a moment where I remember I just dropped off my my kids at Daycare, and I can't remember the context as to why but I had to bring the stroller back because it was a local daycare So there's a local lady took care
• 21:51
  of my and I think she just didn't want the strollers at her place So I was like cool So I've walked back with an empty stroller and this is at the point where I had I'm no longer in the military. I no longer have a career. I have two young kids I'm not making any money and I don't know what I'm doing and I remember just and I live close to the river here and I remember just looking at the river walking home with this empty stroller and I just bawled my eyes out and I said I Can't be a failure
• 22:17
  for my kids. I can't be a failure because all I was thinking was like I'm such a loser Look at me. I don't even have a kid into my own stroller right now It was all these symbolic things that just weighed on me so much for weeks and months and years that I realised I need to Figure my shit out. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna do it And it was that moment that I said, okay I had my I had my cry like, you know grown man bawling his eyes out walking back home, right? I can only
• 22:46
  imagine what people are thinking right? But it was really one of those moments that I just realised I can't I can't keep on beating myself up You know, whatever happened happened But I got two kids now that absolutely need me to show up and get it done And you know, you mentioned a bunch of things there, you know Chris that you made a contract and you're talking about the light coming in No I don't know if you believe in God or not but it you basically from what it sounds like made it made a
• 23:11
  contract with God or the universe like I am going to Sort my life out right now. The thing that human beings hate doing is breaking Contracts with not only themselves but with a higher power and that's why you see even email it gratitude Gratitude is that respect for all things that if you don't have it and we're very purposeful people, right? I mean just by virtue of being in military choosing the military and staying in and having a great career We absolutely need to find some higher purpose
• 23:41
  one because the military I'll be honest for me was that was my higher purpose I loved it. Don't have it anymore. What do I do? So you're Grasping at straws. You don't know what to hold on to. Thankfully. I had this I was very fearful. Everything I did was very Rooted in fear and I've only like recently been able to kind of unwind all that all my decisions You know marrying my wife getting a house having kids was all oh shit. Oh shit. Bad things are gonna happen Circle the waggons build the
• 24:14
  Empire get the moats up get the like literally build fences around my house get the guns like just like Solidify my position and then I had the real is like wait like the threat isn't I don't have that threat any why am I? Still in this fight-or-flight mode Because I wasn't expressing the gratitude in these moments because I was more in the well I need to build up I need to secure now. I'm in that phase where I'm more Appreciative like oh my god, actually Everything I have wanted to do that.
• 24:46
  I've visualised that I've set out for myself having a family, you know being an entrepreneur Travelling having a beautiful wife. I've done everything So I need to put back into the universe that gratitude and it's probably been the best Mental health strategy that has been talked about for that since the dawn of time, right? Hey be a little bit more grateful, you know be grateful for your day be grateful for your breath You know, thank God that you're here today These are important parts of who
• 25:20
  we are as human and I'm finally Reconnecting with that and I haven't felt better and then so to echo what you're saying Like, you know, what were the you know that have those low moments? I want to touch base on the fact that you had a clearly a very low moment and were I listening to your Conversation a few years ago. I would start start to feel Self-conscious isn't I didn't really hit that rock bottom Who am I to talk about what I'm going to who am I to write a book? Who am I and I don't know
• 25:46
  if that's a if that's a veteran thing But it's definitely a me thing where you think well I didn't attain the most elite soldier level and have a body count of you know 100 Taliban fighters. So do you know what Dave Morrow would say? He'd say dude, that's a trauma response. There you go And so that's exactly part of what I'm trying to convey now to is like Chris your story is your story and man I'm so glad you're here. You're kicking ass and taking names and giving back to the community my
• 26:17
  story is a little bit different, but I recognise that I Have a story and everybody has a story if you're willing to share it That's a way that so that was for me The biggest thing that got me out of the hole was to actually start sharing even though I didn't want it I didn't want to talk about my stuff. Why would I want to talk about it? It's hard sucks my first few podcasts I'm stumbling all over the place. I don't know how to speak properly. I was burping half the times I realised burping is
• 26:45
  a is a reaction to stress on my burping and then slowly but surely I started getting a little bit better I realised I liked it. Oh people actually listen people are writing me comments and you know, you're not getting, you know, Joe Rogan level Exposure and if you're you're starting and we don't expect many people to listen But what I've learned is that this this journey that I'm on has been more cathartic than anything And I'm curious knowing it was was a podcast part of that cathartic kind of
• 27:15
  rebirth where you realise my man This is this is actually where I get to share and have the most impact possible That's a great question Let me just peel back a bit. You said, you know, did I find God and I was always very wary of you know Any group that would have me you don't want to be in that group day, believe me But no, it's almost metaphorical but it's also true when I say the light came in My life changed mate it literally changed there from that moment on I knew don't ask me how but my
• 27:55
  in hindsight is my Kundalini sense, you know your serpent power your your your energy has changed because you've made the connection that society had Previously cut off for you and I knew my life would never be the same again I knew I would never go back and Half the reason I knew my life would be perfect from that moment onwards. I'm not saying I don't have challenges of obviously But the reason I knew I was in paradise is because you have the ability to choose You've got the freedom to choose
• 28:31
  what you aspire to what you do Who you look up to and who you don't what dreams you chase and rather than I don't know a crass example I was never massively like this, but I probably was a bit, you know I'd no longer look at the guy in the Ferrari and think oh, I wish that was me I'd look at the guy in front and think gosh, he's probably a bit he's probably a bit traumatised. He's Massively cemented in his ego. I bet he's got a big mirror and you know, and I'm being a bit, you know Flippant but
• 29:06
  you know, my knife was never the same but what it was actually getting to is by taking that action and only spending the ten pounds and inst the universe instantly gave me back tenfold and I Went on a mission albeit fuelled by ego initially my ego said Well, what have you done? What are you good at you? You can't hold down a job because you're not qualified for anything except, you know Guard duty or go into war and the guard duty options gonna be pretty lowbrow for you because you can get fed
• 29:41
  up being a security guard pretty quickly and You know if you go to war, I you know, what are you really doing? You're just an extension of the system again. That's that's you you've kind of waking up to now So I I went travelling instead and I I just decided