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Why God Invites Us Into His Work · Red Couch Theology

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Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of the Red Couch
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Theology podcast. Hey, this week we have Dan
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Elliott on the show because he preached the message.
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We're going to get answers to things like what in the world is
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battle rattle? What is a crocus after all?
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And why in the world do we have so much joy in this season that
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seems so heavy? That is called Advent.
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And wait a minute, one final question we're going to address
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is what's our role in bringing the Kingdom God of God anyway?
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If it's all God's work, why does he want us involved?
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Let's dive right into this week's episode.
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And we're live on the Red Couch Theology podcast and we're
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missing someone waiting. Waiting.
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Alex is dreading this moment because he has to sit on the
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horribly uncomfortable red couch.
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Dan doesn't have a microphone in front.
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Of him. How's that?
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Welcome everyone, we're finally ready for a show.
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Is that what this is? A show.
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It is dinner and a show. And this is even isn't even the
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latest we've been ready. No, actually that.
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Close. We're right on time.
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Yeah, good. Hi, Dan.
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Hi, Aaron. Hi, Dan.
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Welcome to the Welcome to the Red Couch show again.
1:27
Feels kind of like the hot suit being over.
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Here it is. It is no we.
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Wait until you hear the questions.
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I don't understand why. There we go now.
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The Shekinah glory of the Lord is upon you.
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For those of you who are listening only, I just changed
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the color temperature of Dan's spotlight so that it feels even
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more like he's on a hot seat. Wow.
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Warm shine, light in his face. Ask him hard questions.
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I think of it as. Put him in jail?
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No. Straight to jail.
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Straight to jail. Yeah.
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With you 2 today. This is great.
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You didn't think you're on a serious podcast, did you?
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Well. He's been here before.
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He knows. All right, let me get my act
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together 'cause I do have questions for you.
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So this week, the reason Dan's on the show is 'cause he
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preached on Sunday and and brought us the Week 3 of Advent.
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And so we'll get, we'll ask you for an overview of that in just
2:31
a moment. But then we do have a few
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questions that rolled in. Oh, wow.
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I wanna see how difficult they are. 1st we should say how how
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great he did 'cause it was. It was great.
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I even said to him, the old dog can still hunt.
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The old dog can still bark. Nice.
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It's one of those backhanded compliments where you address
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their age and compliment them at the same time.
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You're like, should I feel good about this or bad about this?
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Oh, that's fine. You can say whatever.
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Yeah. All right.
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So so Dan, yes, you were asked to to share Week 3 of Advent and
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I will in it. Well, let's start with that.
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Let's just do a quick overview. If someone missed it on Sunday
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and they're somehow listening to this episode 1, go back and
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listen to his message is great. But two, if they want it, get a
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preview or a preview of that. What could you give us a quick
3:30
overview of where you went with the message?
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Sure. Well, Advent week 3 was focused
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in on Isaiah 35, the the whole chapter.
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And when I started studying this, yeah, it just, it just
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kept coming over and over. There's there's a ton of joy in
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this chapter. There's a ton of looking
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forward, Isaiah's prophetically looking into the future and, you
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know, just seeing a time when creation fully rejoices in in
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being loosed from its bondage there.
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And read about in Romans 8 about creation outgrowns.
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And really it says it groans with us and it's looking forward
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to that time when when we'll all be freed from that.
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I'll be loosed from that when God re establishes and puts up
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his Kingdom. And so yeah, it was just trying
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to bring that it's important for us to focus in on our hope, not
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to forget the struggle that we're in around us.
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You know, it doesn't just it's not an escape thing.
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It's more of a building our faith and realizing, wow, there
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is a future that we have and that future is going to be
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terrific and that should impact how we live now.
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Our response should not be this obligatory.
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I've got to obey God. Oh, but it should be, wow, look
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at what? Look at God's love.
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Look what he's got for us. Look, this is amazing.
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I want to live for him and I, I want to, I want to be used
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however he wants to use me now. So that's kind of what the hope
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was for that. Awesome.
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Now, you mentioned something on Sunday that I feel like not
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everyone will have understood. Oh boy, what is that?
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You said I'm in battle rattle. Oh.
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Yeah. And I think probably more than
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half the congregation would was like, don't know what that
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means. Sounds like, you know, I'm not
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even sure that most people in the like, is this a thing?
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Did you pick this up from someone else?
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What's the definition of it? And yeah, can you help us out?
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What is Battle Rattle then? Oh, battle rattle.
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You know, maybe I, I can that phrase.
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I'm not sure, but every time I have to preach, I go through
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battle rattle, which to me is like, you know, I, I, I try to
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hide it, but I can get kind of anxious about stuff and
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especially when it comes to preaching.
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Yeah. And I'll just say if I don't
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have battle rattle or if I'm not a little bit nervous, I get a
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little bit nervous about that because.
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It's a nervous, nervous situation either way, right?
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Yeah, I, I just think, you know, and this is going to sound wild.
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I mean, public speakings, public speaking, yes, but getting up
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into a pulpit and trying to say something for God, I got to
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watch it there. And if I'm not a little bit
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nervous, there's something wrong.
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So that's often times what I refer to as battle rattle.
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I mean, just putting together, digging into the the passage,
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trying to make it really become part of me.
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Yeah, it's a, it's a nervous thing.
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And I probably a lot of people don't realize the toll that is
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on a pastor. I mean, Alex, I think of you
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getting up there week after week after week, Aaron, you getting
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up there when you preach, I mean, both of you look so calm
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and everything, but I know there's a churning there.
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And, and when we get up and, and share stuff and when people
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listen and that's, that's a key thing.
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But you're always going to have some people who are going to put
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you on the spot. And that's fine.
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You know, if, if we really believe in the truth, yeah,
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yeah, we should be put on the spot.
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But I want to make sure that God's pleased with it.
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Yeah, yeah. So like battle rattle?
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Well, you said when you get up into the pulpit, is this what,
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Alex? Is this why you don't have a
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pulpit? So you don't have to feel battle
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rattle? Hey.
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Some people say you can tell a lot about someone's theology by
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the size of the pulpit. Yeah, yeah.
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What? What do you tell about?
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It well, it's, it was always a joke, right, That you like the
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guys with the huge like pulpit with the, you know, with the,
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the communion thing on the side and you have like, you know,
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it's like you can't stretch all the way across it.
8:08
Yeah, yeah. And all the way to the guys with
8:10
no, no pulpit wandering around on a stage going on about their
8:14
narrative theology and stuff like that.
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I don't think you can actually tell that, I think.
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It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That's a joke that's been made over the years.
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Well, we've Alex and I have occasionally joked that like,
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you know, you have to do a few minor things to like tweak
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different preachers stage presence based upon their
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personality like if they tend to be more more casual Alex, maybe
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we need a big old pulpit so that people really take them serious
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or if. You're if you're.
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Up there like me and you're, you're yelling and shouting
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Hellfire and brimstone. Maybe you need to like take that
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pulpit away and chill him out a little bit.
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Put him in some blue jeans. Saying we're doing it the wrong
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way around. Yeah, exactly.
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Oh my. Goodness.
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All right, we're off topic. I thank you.
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For bringing that up, you know, I mean, yeah, I did mention
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Battle Rattle and I never thought what someone might
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think. Yeah, 'cause we joke about her
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on the staff. Yeah.
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All right. So what's the image of battle
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rattle? Is it like a picture of, of like
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a knight in, in, in metal armor and they're about to go into
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battle and they're literally shaking and their armor is
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rattling? Is that No What's?
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What's the etymology Dan of this terminal?
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I have no idea what the etymology is, but it's just the
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cold sweat of saying, oh, is this going to come together?
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And then when it does come together, and now this is my
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stage in life right now, it's saying, OK, God, I don't want to
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miss one of these key points when I'm up there.
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And then Sunday afternoon, I'm sitting there saying, oh, God, I
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should have. I forgot that point.
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Yeah, that's, that's a terrible feeling.
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I actually noticed on Sunday from where I was sitting, there
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was this moment where the sheaf of paper fell off the thing on
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to the floor. And I had this panic moment of
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like, please don't let that be one of the ones.
10:05
He hasn't got to yet. But there's actually in in PG
10:09
Wodehouse in his G series, this great old English writer from
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the 20th century, he talks about how they're in this church and
10:18
they're they're actually betting on how long sermons will go.
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One of the one of the the preachers who's known for having
10:26
these incredibly long sermons goes 20 minutes instead of 45
10:30
minutes and it's 'cause he drops a bunch of pieces of paper.
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So I suddenly have this image of Dan like getting through like 15
10:36
minutes of his stuff. Like that's it.
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And there's a what, where to go? Where are those?
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Call it a. Day.
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Yeah, I can't even notice that until I'm like halfway through.
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I'm looking at it. What's that?
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Oh, that's one of my. Which point did I miss?
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So yeah, occasionally on the show we like to talk about some
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of the mechanisms of preaching. You already talked about it,
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like battle rattle, the responsibility of preaching, all
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this sort of thing. So I in my experience, I also
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experienced some battle rattle. Maybe Alex preaches enough he
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doesn't experience it at all anymore.
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I think, you know, I, I, I think I feel like this sense of, you
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know, I, I think my framework has been a bit more chilled out
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than some. So I actually my metric is like,
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did I faithfully share from my heart what I felt like God put
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on my heart? Yeah.
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And so it's a little bit more like, yeah, did I faithfully,
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faithfully tell the story of Jesus today?
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And, and, and I probably have done it enough to know.
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And I think you do, you know this as well, Aaron, and
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probably Dan, you do from past life experience, the sermons
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where I get up and I'm kind of like in the midst of it and I'm
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just like, oh, man, this is flying.
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And then I get off stage and I killed it.
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Yeah. People are like, yeah, it's
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fine. Yeah.
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And then other sermons where I'm like, man, that was rubbish.
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Like almost. It's an out of body experience
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where you're looking at yourself like out of body watching
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yourself do that and you're like, they pay you to do this,
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Yeah, what is wrong with them? And then people will be like,
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that was beautifully. Profound.
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It's like when you want to walk off the stage, walk out the side
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door and out the back door, climb in your car, drive home
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and cry yourself to sleep. Yeah.
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And then people are like, dude, you were on something today.
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That was just that was like, you know, yeah, OK, so clearly I
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don't have any good metrics for what speaks to people's hearts.
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That's the beautiful gift of preaching actually.
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Like I might after this time have a metric as to how smooth
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delivery was or how well put together ideas were on a human
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level, or how succinctly I move from one point to another.
12:57
All of those things I might, after 20 years of doing it, have
13:00
some metrics for. But I actually have no metric
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for the conversation God has with people sitting in chairs
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about the things that I'm saying, yes, that I cannot
13:14
quantify for. Yeah.
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And so that that that's actually the beautiful gift of preaching
13:19
that means, like, all bets are off.
13:21
Yeah. And and so you actually, after a
13:24
while get to surrender that and say, oh, my goodness, Scott,
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this is what I hope you do today.
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This is what I think you should do today.
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This is what this has spoken to me.
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And then you get into the midst of it and you're like, OK,
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that's just that's that's the gift.
13:38
That's you being you, because I didn't do that.
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I think that is the gift of giving me getting lots of
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chances at it, is that you start to not trust in yourself, but
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actually trust that God's going to do his thing.
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And, and I think I think what I would add as well is all of us
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have probably been in, in environments, whether we were
13:56
lead pastors for a long time or not at all.
13:59
We've just both been in the church world for long enough
14:04
that we know that most of us have probably been through a
14:09
time where someone said to us, dude, you are so good at this.
14:13
You're called to this thing. Like I remember preaching for
14:16
the first time at 18, this guy came up to me and was like, I
14:20
was just bawling in tears. I was like, I just want to get
14:23
saved again. Like this.
14:24
Just the way you articulated the story of Jesus was just so good.
14:30
And I just loved it. And then I was a youth pastor
14:33
and I would get up and be a change of pace once every couple
14:36
of months. And people be like, you know
14:37
what? My favorite Sundays are the ones
14:39
you preach. And after a while, you realize
14:46
that's deeply unsatisfying. Yeah.
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You know, people come up to you and say that and you're like,
14:51
oh, yeah. So I mean, yeah, I remember,
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like someone said that last time, and the globe fell off
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that really quick. Like, it doesn't mean anything
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because even if you follow a calling and become a league
15:05
pastor, well, someone else would become the change of pace person
15:07
that gets up. And everyone's like, man, love
15:10
it when you preach. Like that's a real change of
15:12
pace. It doesn't mean anything because
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it doesn't, it doesn't have any substance to it.
15:17
And and the real gift of preaching is that you get to
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have a front row seat to what God does.
15:24
Yes. And that's the only thing that
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actually means anything. Yes, so in the same strain, Dan,
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I in my experience, the battle rattle like I have is unique to
15:36
each sermon. Like sometimes it's you know
15:42
what, this is such an abstract idea I'm grabbing.
15:47
I'm the the the struggle is trying to find a concrete
15:52
illustration. And so the battle rattles around
15:56
that. Sometimes it's yeah, but who
16:00
cares? Like it's not abstract, but the
16:02
application section. Other times it's like, no, this
16:05
text is saying something very hard and heavy and how do I help
16:09
it land appropriate. So this week, what was the
16:13
unique flavor of battle rattle for you in this Isaiah passage?
16:20
Well. Or was it just that it was an
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Isaiah passage? No, you know, when I first read
16:27
the passage, I said, wow, this is this is tremendous.
16:31
This is tremendous. And then, and you know, you, you
16:34
try to make you, you try to start with that scripture 1st
16:37
and just let it kind of percolate and, and, and get into
16:40
you. And then you start to look at
16:42
what some of the background in that scripture you, you look at
16:45
some of the commentaries. And then when you, man, when I
16:47
started reading the commentaries, that's when I
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started to get a little nervous because I'm saying, no, wait,
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these are scholars and I don't know that I agree with them.
16:56
Oh, yeah, that's another form of flavor of battle rattle when
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you're like, I don't agree. Yeah.
17:02
Yeah, and you know, because they were taking it very academically
17:06
and I was looking at this passage saying, wow, this is
17:09
this is terrific. You know, the picture that it
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presents. I don't want to miss that
17:13
picture. And and so the the thing that
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kind of kept coming back to me was don't get in the way of this
17:18
passage. You know, don't don't obscure
17:22
this passage with trying to analyze it, but go in and and
17:28
enjoy it and help people enjoy it.
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It was a I, I, you know, my, my battle rattle is more
17:36
nervousness. Yeah, yeah.
17:37
And, and and like I've said, I, I don't want to miss the point.
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I don't want to, you know, take away from God.
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God's the one who's going to work for this.
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And I have to remind myself. Yeah.
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That he's the one who's going to do it.
17:52
And, and you're right, Alex, I mean, there's times I thought it
17:55
was a total waste. And yet somebody will come up
17:58
and say, man, that really hit me in the heart.
18:01
Yeah. And and that feels so good, but
18:03
it's also a reminder. OK, That wasn't you, Dan.
18:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
18:09
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
18:11
All right, so we had a question come in.
18:13
Yeah. Let's see if we can dive into
18:16
this. If Jesus has already inaugurated
18:19
his Kingdom, but it's not yet complete, what is our role as
18:24
disciples in bringing the Kingdom?
18:30
OK. And, and I would say everything
18:34
in that passage in Isaiah to me revolved around that little
18:39
phrase, God will come to save. God will come to save.
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I, you know, and when I look at Isaiah's situation, good grief,
18:49
I, I still kind of picture him. I don't know if he was inside
18:52
Jerusalem there with Hezekiah, but I think it would have been a
18:55
frightening time. I do believe the Assyrian army
18:59
was coming down. You know, the very next chapters
19:03
tell that amazing story of how God delivered Hezekiah and
19:07
Jerusalem. And so I believe that this
19:12
vision was given to Isaiah to encourage the people who are
19:15
looking out and seeing this, you know, and scared to death.
19:21
So as we, as we see ourselves today, generations later, but
19:29
there's still things that frighten us, there's still
19:31
things that we're saying this doesn't make sense.
19:34
Jesus came and yet it's not fixed.
19:36
Yeah. But I think the point that kind
19:40
of hit me was when you looked at that passage, how when God comes
19:44
to save, he's going to open the eyes of the blind.
19:48
He's going to bring hearing to the deaf.
19:50
He's going to help the lame leap and jump for joy.
19:54
And then Jesus identified himself when when John sent his
19:57
disciples to say, are you the one we were really expecting or
20:01
should we look for somebody else?
20:03
That was a genuine, real question, which I hope when
20:07
people hear that, they don't dismiss John, but they realize,
20:12
hey, he still went to Jesus and asked the question and and.
20:16
He wasn't afraid to ask a question like that.
20:20
He he could have just said, I'm sitting here in this prison
20:22
cell. OK, guys, there's got to be
20:24
somebody else. Let's go find him.
20:27
But he went to Jesus and said, are you the one?
20:28
And Jesus wrote, you know, sent back the, the message.
20:32
Just tell him the lamer jumping up and down the, the, the deaf
20:36
or hearing the blinder singing. And when you put that together
20:39
with that Isaiah passage, he's saying I'm God and I'm doing
20:44
this in a different way than you were expecting.
20:46
In fact, the results are a little bit different than what
20:48
you were anticipating. It's not, it's not an overthrow
20:51
of Rome or of a political system or of an empire.
20:55
That's not where my work is. My work is, is helping
20:58
individuals come back to the creation I had for them in the
21:01
first place. And, and that's where I see that
21:05
we step in and we have to keep reminding ourselves, I mean, we
21:10
get caught up in politics, we get caught up with how how's the
21:14
United States doing in the world.
21:17
And yet I don't think God's really concerned about that.
21:21
I think he's concerned about each one of us carrying the
21:24
banner of Jesus Christ and the difference he makes into
21:28
individual lives. And, and as we see
21:31
transformation in our lives, man, it's going to bring
21:35
transformation in world powers. It's going to bring
21:38
transformation in empires. It it's going to humble world
21:42
leaders. Yeah.
21:44
Yeah, I was always surprised that, you know, you got these
21:47
pictures of like the goodness of the Kingdom of God coming and
21:53
you got all these beautiful images of it.
21:56
And then I was always surprised when we go like to foreign
21:59
countries, we go on mission trips and things like that.
22:02
I remember going to the Philippines when I was 19 and
22:05
we'd pray for people and you'd start to see the Kingdom coming
22:08
in, how God would answer those prayers.
22:11
And then sometimes we pray for someone.
22:13
I remember we prayed for this lady who had this like, growth
22:17
out of a knee and, you know, came out like a good few inches
22:21
and it was just super painful and super.
22:24
And we prayed for her and nothing happened.
22:26
And then we asked her some questions about what was going
22:30
on there and she said, well, actually like what I really need
22:33
is a surgery, but it's going to cost $300 and I don't have $300.
22:41
That's we gave her the $300 and she went and had surgery.
22:44
And the weird question for me was like, did the Kingdom of God
22:47
come when we did that? Did God answer the prayer?
22:51
Yeah. And she would say, yeah, yeah, I
22:54
had no hope of this happening. And now because God told you
22:58
guys to come and you came and you did this, you know, this is
23:01
this is like for me, this feels like the Kingdom of God came for
23:05
me. It felt like a disappointment.
23:08
Yeah. For her, it felt like the
23:09
Kingdom of God. And so I, I think I've often
23:13
thought, you know, yes, I want this Kingdom of God to come in
23:17
supernatural ways. And yet one of the things we
23:20
talked about when we did the female eldership question was
23:23
this idea of biblical trajectory.
23:25
Where's the story going? Yeah.
23:27
And, and we talked about how there's these, these certain
23:29
areas where you say this is what it used to be like, this is what
23:33
it's like now, and this is what it's going to be like one day.
23:37
And it seems like our call is to do all we can to work towards
23:40
the thing that it will be 1 day. That's the reason William
23:43
Wilberforce went out and opposed slavery in Britain.
23:46
And it called on and became this worldwide trend where slavery
23:49
was ended in all these different places.
23:51
Yeah. You know, women's rights, same
23:53
thing like voting rights, all those different things seem to
23:56
nudge us towards this Kingdom where there is no longer male
24:00
nor female, is no longer slave and free Greek and Jew, is no
24:05
longer sick and unsick. There's, you know, there's all
24:09
these different things and our call is to work towards that.
24:12
And so I think this the the Kingdom gets inaugurated in
24:14
these really surprising ways when we think like that.
24:17
You know, our our call is to work toward that and also
24:21
realize God's going to bring it to that final consummation.
24:26
But that doesn't hinder us. I mean, it's not that we're just
24:28
sitting there saying, OK, the day's going to come when
24:30
everything's going to be fixed. We're called to be part of that
24:33
fixing. And I when, you know, when we,
24:35
when we opened Advent by asking people how the light of God, how
24:41
would they like to see the light of God shine on their lives,
24:45
Some of the answers were super surprising.
24:49
I mean, some of them were those Kingdom answers.
24:51
Like, you know, I need healing for dot, dot, dot, you know, I
24:55
need blind eyes to open. I need all those different
24:57
things. Others were like, would you pray
25:00
that I wouldn't be lonely this Christmas?
25:03
Would you pray that they have companionship?
25:05
I'd have, you know, those kind of things.
25:10
And I think like this, the number of things in which we can
25:13
help bring about the Kingdom are startling.
25:16
They really. Are they are?
25:18
And so I think that's, that's that's the thing that's always
25:20
caught me off guard. Like we just keep working
25:22
towards the Kingdom. And one day the beautiful gift
25:25
is that Jesus will step in and the Kingdom will come
25:28
surprisingly, as it always does, and catch all of us off guard.
25:32
And we'll all say we didn't expect it to be quite this way,
25:35
but it all will seem exactly as it should have been.
25:38
You know, and that's what scares me so much about and, and I used
25:43
to do this, try to come up with all the answers, try to say, OK,
25:48
this is how the end times fit together.
25:51
This is what's going to happen. And then as time goes on, I
25:56
realized sometimes my expectations may cause me to
25:59
miss what God's actually doing. Yeah.
26:01
And, and I may be over here looking for something in this
26:04
direction when here's God all the time.
26:07
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's only so many
26:08
books you can write with a date for the Rapture, right?
26:11
That's true. Evidently not actually, when you
26:17
when you've named the date multiple times and you're still
26:20
selling books totally, you know, pretty.
26:22
Impressive. Was that guy down the road for
26:24
me? Was it The song had like 15
26:26
dates. Yeah, it.
26:28
Keeps changing. Don't buy the book, people.
26:31
I don't know if you guys ever saw the show Parks and Rec.
26:33
Yes, but there's a great little group in Parks and Rec called
26:36
the Reasonablists who believe that Zorp, the alien king, is
26:42
going to come down and wipe out the Earth.
26:44
But they called themselves the Reasonablists because they
26:47
thought it would sound really reasonable so people would join
26:50
them. But they're always predicting
26:52
dates. It's always like, and you know,
26:54
so the leader will like, have a date and they'll wait and
26:56
nothing will happen. And then he'll come back and be
26:58
like, oh, I realized I miscalculated.
27:03
It cracks me up you've you've got this ability to recall all
27:07
these shows. Yeah, my dad says it's a wasted
27:11
intellect. Oh, man, yeah, there there is.
27:17
There is this strange tension about being a follower of Jesus
27:22
where God does everything and invites us to do things.
27:27
It's it's a, a very abstract, confusing thing about being a
27:33
follower of Jesus because he's like, I do all the work.
27:37
And we even talked about it with preaching.
27:39
Like sometimes there's times where you feel like, man, I just
27:42
did a horrible job. And then God, this, you know,
27:45
the Spirit shows up and does something powerful.
27:47
Or you talk about this text and that MO, that highlight that you
27:52
wanted to portray that God's going to do this.
27:55
And then the question comes in, well, yeah, but then what's our
27:58
part of this? And the answer is, Yep, that's.
28:01
So there's a strange tension or the story you tell about did
28:05
this lady get healed? Or sometimes I picture and maybe
28:12
the well, maybe you could tell me, is this theologically
28:16
accurate? But I picture the work of the
28:20
Kingdom kind of like when my daughter, my 3 year old daughter
28:23
Claire, would like to help me make bread.
28:28
And I realize when I say yes, you can help me make bread, it's
28:33
going to be so much. Harder.
28:34
Yeah, that's brilliant. Yeah, but our relationship will
28:38
grow. Yeah.
28:39
And she'll learn something along the way.
28:41
And there'll be a final product that is bread that's delicious.
28:46
And Yeah. And yet it'd be so much easier
28:49
if I did it without her. And there's.
28:52
You know what I mean? This is kind of what it
28:54
sometimes feels like when God says, hey, church, I'd like you
28:57
to participate in bringing my Kingdom.
28:59
Yeah. And it's like us trying to make
29:02
bread with God. I love that movie.
29:03
That's. Good, Yeah.
29:05
And have similar stories, yeah. And then there.
29:07
But there it's because for God, it's about the relationship with
29:10
humanity and with his church and getting us to participate and
29:15
then ultimately be able to bake a loaf of bread ourselves.
29:21
You know, it's this. I don't know.
29:24
God is so kind. Well, I, I, you know, I was
29:26
thinking about that as I'm thinking about this week, which
29:28
we may never get to talk about. So it seems like there's very
29:31
little risk in talking about it. But you know, we, we, I always
29:37
think it's unusual that Advent starts off this surprising chain
29:42
of events that start off with God with us, which feels like
29:47
the fix that we want. You know, that that's the one
29:50
would we, we started off with like, oh, if God just comes and
29:55
he'll be king and everything will be fine.
29:57
But it actually starts off this train of events that we've
30:00
articulated as God with us, God for us, God in US, and it
30:05
actually ends up with God through US.
30:08
Like it actually, like the story seems like it's the wrong way
30:12
round in some ways. You know, it, it feels like it
30:18
should end with just God with us fixing stuff.
30:21
But actually it ends up with him surprisingly empowering us.
30:28
And I think that that that is the gift, really.
30:32
Yeah. Yeah, that's the story.
30:35
So another thing that I think that I'd like to ask you, Dan,
30:40
is because I was deeply disappointed that you did not
30:44
tell me what a crocus is. What in the world is a crocus?
30:49
Can you help us in any way? The only thing I, you know, I
30:52
looked up Crocus and they say that's that's it's probably some
30:58
kind of a blossom over there in the Holy Land.
31:00
But but they didn't have a definite, they said we don't
31:02
know. What a crocus is appalled, both
31:05
of you. Did you find crocus?
31:08
The crocus is like the most common flower in England in
31:12
what, the new year? The.
31:14
Crocuses and snowdrops are everywhere.
31:17
Well, they. Then how?
31:19
Crocus. Why couldn't I find anything
31:21
about crocus? I'm going to find you a picture
31:24
right now. Oh my goodness.
31:26
You're probably spelling it wrong.
31:28
There we go. Little crocus everywhere.
31:31
OK, little crocus everywhere. CS Lewis talks them about, I
31:34
mean, Narnia when spring comes. They are, yeah, everywhere.
31:42
They're a common little flower. I've tried to grow them here.
31:46
They don't survive. They're a gift.
31:48
Maybe Isaiah traveled to England or something back then.
31:50
You did. Or maybe the translators just
31:52
put them in his crocus when there's something else, I don't
31:54
know. You know, you do wonder, but
31:57
yeah, most of the thing that I found was they said, yeah, this
32:02
is this has got to be some flower that we've not heard of,
32:04
but we'll just say it's crocus. So maybe you're right.
32:08
Maybe the translators just put. That, I mean, that would make
32:10
sense, right? Yeah.
32:11
Well, the reality is so the the English translation uses the
32:17
word crocus, which Alex is like so easy.
32:20
Yeah, the he, the Hebrew is not the word crocus and so.
32:25
Right, well, what is it the? OK, I'm going back there to
32:28
look. Yeah, the Hebrew is actually,
32:33
you know, I don't read Hebrew. So it's some sort of a rose.
32:37
I have to look at the flower. It's the and.
32:39
So both of you are probably correct that we don't know which
32:44
flower strain this is referring to in the Hebrew, but in the
32:48
English translation, yes, a crocus is obvious and easy, so
32:53
you're both right. Congratulations.
32:55
A rare situation. Well, no, wait, I'm, I'm looking
32:58
here in interlinear, you know, and I'll just say, yeah, I, I
33:03
studied Hebrew, studied Greek, but basically I wish they had
33:08
spent a lot more time teaching us how to use the tools, you
33:11
know, and yeah, because I, I use interlinear.
33:15
And asfidel. Asfidel that's yeah, that's a
33:17
real plant as well, right? Well, what what I'm seeing here
33:21
in Hebrew, kaha bass, kaha bassilet, kaha bassilet, and at
33:27
least in the interlinear translated as the Rose.
33:31
Interesting the the desert we'll blossom as the Rose.
33:37
There you go. That's an asked Fidel.
33:40
Yeah. That's just another translation.
33:43
Yeah, it's not as pretty as the crocus.
33:44
It's not as it I mean, crocus is a pretty amazing flower.
33:48
We have to get a botanist on here, you know.
33:50
Yeah, not only a botanist, a a historical Yeah, Middle Eastern
33:54
botanist, expert in Semitic. Language.
33:57
Someone dig one out. There's gotta be 1 somewhere.
33:59
Yeah. What was it?
34:01
Is this? What you guys showed up for the
34:03
show for We we talk about unknown flowers for the rest of
34:06
the episode. Let's try to grow a botany show.
34:11
I'd subscribe, yeah. I'm in.
34:15
What was the verse? Isaiah 35.
34:18
Is in one verse one the desert will blossom as the.
34:23
Like the? Like the crocus or the Rose or
34:26
whatever they're translating. Something something.
34:28
Kaha, Basilat, I think that's how you pronounce it.
34:31
But anyway, what's that nice little diversion there, Aaron?
34:35
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, this is what we do
34:39
on this show. So.
34:41
So now it's part way through the week after the message was given
34:48
on a Thursday. What are you hoping?
34:50
If there was anything that you felt like God was putting on
34:53
your heart for South Fellowship Church, what are you hoping
34:56
people remember most from your message?
34:59
Well, I'd say two things, even though he said what's one thing
35:03
that you're hoping? But you know, I hope people
35:05
would realize. We get a bonus.
35:07
The day is going to come when they're going to be walking on
35:10
that that road, whatever it is, you know, the road of holiness.
35:14
With some unknown flowers on this side well.
35:17
Crocuses. Yeah, crocuses all over the
35:19
place, but they're they're going to have joy like a Halo, you
35:24
know, it's just going to surround them, this joy that's
35:29
unbelievable to me. You know, that's just that is
35:31
just an anticipation. And I would hope, I would hope
35:34
people could get so excited about that.
35:36
Not to say, OK, I can't wait till we get there.
35:39
Forget now. I'm just going to, I'm just
35:42
going to pine away until I get there.
35:44
No, but to realize the time is coming when, yeah, all death
35:49
will be gone, darkness will be gone.
35:52
He will be the light. I mean, it'll be all what he
35:55
anticipated for us in the beginning.
35:57
And and that's why I wonder about, wonder what Eden was
36:00
like, You know, I mean, that was that was the original.
36:04
That's what God created. That's what Jesus put together.
36:07
And then we chose a different way.
36:09
And I just wonder is, is Jesus bringing us back to his
36:13
intention? So there's that.
36:15
But then there's also that realization again, of of not
36:22
letting our expectations of how we think God has to work hinder
36:27
us from being part of his work. Yeah.
36:30
And, and, and realizing the smallest thing and, and I
36:35
probably shouldn't say small because I don't know if there's
36:37
any small things in God's Kingdom.
36:39
Yeah, you know, but just helping someone, like like I said, when
36:44
you give a glass of water to somebody, when you, when you
36:48
just say hi to someone, recognize, you know, and I don't
36:51
mean just to say hi out of obligation, but really look at
36:55
them. I feel like the beauty of God's
36:57
Kingdom is it can be the Kingdom of small things too.
37:00
I mean, that's the like, I don't know.
37:02
Yeah. I mean, I, I think what you just
37:05
said, that the small things are all part of God's Kingdom.
37:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said they, you know,
37:10
they're surprisingly. I think his point is that the
37:14
small things are surprisingly big.
37:15
Yeah, that's me. Yeah.
37:16
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah.
37:18
Yeah, so it's, those are so important.
37:21
I I mean, you know, I work with benevolence.
37:24
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it drives me nuts but
37:27
I just think when I think of Denver and I think of the the
37:32
number of homeless people in Denver, I just have to ask the
37:35
question what if every Christian Church adopted a homeless person
37:42
would probably make much better impact on the homeless problem.
37:46
Now that's my idea for coming up with a quote program Again,
37:50
that's not the way God works. He moves in a variety of way
37:53
with each church and the unique people that are there.
37:56
But I we have the capacity to really make an impact in this
38:01
world. And we already have.
38:03
I think we miss it if we don't realize how many hospitals are
38:06
here because somebody really had a heart to want to heal people.
38:10
Yeah. You know, how how many schools,
38:13
public education, you know, came as a result of the Sunday school
38:17
movement? I mean, it's just amazing to
38:19
think of all these things that happened because I believe
38:22
Christians were concerned about their fellow people.
38:26
Yeah. Great, SO that's all God's
38:29
Kingdom. Yeah, so there's this this sort
38:32
of new idea as I've meditated a little bit more on Advent this
38:37
year. Advent is the church calendar
38:42
season of the second movement of the Lord's Prayer.
38:48
Lord, let your Kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it
38:51
is in heaven. So like the entire season of
38:54
Advent is an attempt to embody that prayer.
38:59
Lord, we want your Kingdom now come back, make it so.
39:04
And the interesting thing about that prayer in, in the Lord's
39:08
Prayer is that it's, it's not just a longing, it's also an, an
39:13
invasive invitation to get about bringing Kingdom.
39:18
So when we say, Lord, bring your Kingdom, let your Kingdom come
39:21
and your will be done here on earth as it is in heaven.
39:24
And God's like, Yep, get on it. And so all the things we're
39:28
talking about, all of Advent itself, is this tension between
39:33
longing for him to ultimately do it, and in that longing,
39:39
recognizing that we're part of the answer to the prayer and
39:42
this interplay back and forth. And I think that's probably one
39:45
of the reasons why I love Advent so much is that the Lord's
39:50
Prayer is my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite.
39:52
And that line in the Lord's Prayer is probably the most
39:56
pervasive prayer in my soul at any given moment.
39:59
Lord, Lord, your Kingdom, we pray it every Sunday right
40:02
before with the whole teams, we do 321 his Kingdom come.
40:07
And so our services, the lights, the sound, the sermon
40:13
preparation, the songs we pick, our prayer is that maybe, just
40:16
maybe a tiny little fraction of the Kingdom will break forth a
40:20
little bit more as a result of that service.
40:23
Lord, let your Kingdom come and all of Advent.
40:26
Is about that. Yeah, and so I, I, I think I've
40:28
told both of you and maybe on this podcast before every
40:32
Advent, one of the things I do is I read A Christmas Carol.
40:37
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a surprisingly
40:39
spiritual book, like it's surprisingly more Christian
40:43
centred than a lot of people I think would think from seeing
40:45
the movies. And actually the whole tenor is
40:49
the Scrooge is supposed to notice.
40:52
He's supposed to open his eyes to the world around him.
40:55
So he sees things on this very like cynical level and he's
41:01
invited to feel it by getting closer.
41:05
So like one of the, the ways that he does that is Tiny Tim,
41:08
this little like child with probably some sickness like
41:12
tuberculosis or something like that, but it's just like almost
41:17
on death's door. And, and Scrooge finally gets to
41:20
see something that moves him. And, and then he's reminded of
41:25
what he said, which is maybe these people are, are better
41:30
dying and reducing the surplus population is what he said
41:34
earlier on. And and when he finally makes
41:37
this connection and the spirit says to him like, you know, he,
41:41
he actually says to Scrooge, like, oh, to see the Anton the
41:45
leaf decry the too much life of his brothers in the dust.
41:51
He's heartbreaking. Like he says that this is who
41:54
you are. You are the one that's born into
41:55
this position and you see nothing but those that are
41:59
better off dead. And finally in that moment
42:02
starts to wake up and starts to long for this better world.
42:06
I think it's actually just easier not to see.
42:09
It's easier not to add this great vision the other day of
42:12
watching this lady in Antarctica and she said, I want to show you
42:16
what 100 mile an hour winds and -30 temperatures look like in
42:21
Antarctica. And she's there like looking
42:25
warm and cozy in this bunker of some kind that she's created.
42:31
It's, you know, it's beautifully lit.
42:33
She looks, she looks picture of health.
42:36
And she walks this door. She goes out into the, you know,
42:39
there's two sets of doors you have to go through.
42:41
You go into the first door and it's just covered in snow
42:44
inside, like that's the outer part of the the building.
42:49
And then she opens the outer door and you can see nothing
42:53
except a squaw of wind and snow and dark and then shuts the door
43:00
and goes back inside as she should.
43:02
But that can be life at times, right?
43:04
I mean, you like, you know, I was with some friends the other
43:07
day and one of our friends honestly said, like, Advent is
43:10
hard for me at times because I am so joyful and so happy.
43:14
Like, God has been so good to me, like so good.
43:17
And that's not a bad thing. That's like an honest
43:20
reflection. And yet he's brave enough at
43:25
Advent to look and see in ways that maybe we don't always have
43:30
time to do, always have the courage to do.
43:32
Advent takes honest looks at the dark outside, the nice little
43:36
lit room, the warm cozy house. Yeah.
43:40
You know, when you when you share that.
43:42
So as I was preparing for this sermon, there was something that
43:47
came across, you know, I try not to spend too much time in the
43:50
news, but there was something that came across and I just had
43:53
to question it because there was there was some news item where,
43:59
you know, to me it was just totally evil.
44:02
And here was this perspective that was really questioning that
44:04
anything wrong really happened. So I kind of dug in, you know,
44:08
and looked and, and it just confirmed what I was afraid of.
44:11
It was just evil and it, and it just made me angry.
44:16
It just disgusted me. It, it, it frustrated me.
44:20
I, I just got worked up and all of it, it didn't happen all of a
44:24
sudden. It took about 3 days, but for me
44:27
to realize, Dan, you're just filled with the same kind of
44:31
hatred, you know, that that possessed these people to do
44:36
some of these evil acts. Jesus came to free you from
44:40
that. Yeah, you have to look at that
44:43
and realize that does exist. Yeah.
44:46
But boy, Jesus has so much more for those people.
44:51
And don't let yourself get sucked into that same evil
44:56
response. To me, that's Advent.
45:00
Yeah, you guys see the movie Conclave?
45:04
Oh, it sounds familiar. It's about a conflict.
45:06
It's about. A Catholic country.
45:08
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't seen.
45:09
It. No, I've heard of it, yeah.
45:10
Yeah. So there's all the different
45:13
political sides that come up at different points, you know,
45:17
those that think the church needs to go back to the, the
45:21
Latin Mass and the, you know, old way of doing things, those
45:24
that think it should be more progressive.
45:26
And they're constantly battling against each other.
45:30
And then there's this moment where there's a terrorist act
45:33
in, in Rome, in the Vatican during the conclave.
45:36
And, you know, they're all hiding in one of the auditoriums
45:40
because something's happened and, you know, it's dangerous.
45:43
And they're all fighting back and forth.
45:44
And ones like, see, this is what happens when you let people in
45:47
and see, this is what happens when you don't stand up for
45:50
what's right. And the other saying like, no,
45:51
like, you're the problem, blah, blah, blah.
45:53
And then finally this guy stands up who was an Archbishop in in
45:58
it was a cardinal in cabal, the Congo and Rwanda and those sorts
46:03
of places. Yeah.
46:04
And, you know, they're all talking about war and all these
46:06
kind of things. And he stands up and he says,
46:09
can I ask you, what do any of you know about war?
46:11
You know, he says, I've seen these things.
46:14
I've seen Christians and Muslims lying side by side dead.
46:18
And then he says he has got this great phrase.
46:19
And he says, don't you see? Like what we're fighting is
46:23
actually here. It's actually in our hearts.
46:27
It's actually us too. And I think that's the the gift
46:31
of Advent is not only when you get to see outside and yet see
46:36
all those different things and you get to see in the news and
46:39
you have this final moment where you're like, oh, also here, also
46:42
still here, lurking in places that actually the Kingdom is
46:48
slowly expelling out advents a time where you get to notice, I
46:52
think where it still lurks and say, God, continue that work in
46:56
me. Yep.
46:57
Cause 'cause it can be awfully dark outside and could also be
47:02
awfully dark in here as well. Yeah, Yep, that's great.
47:07
All right, so one final comment maybe, and that you could also
47:12
comment on is you introduce me to a new Advent song.
47:17
So good. So actually I knew the song, but
47:22
I'd never put it as an Advent song.
47:24
And it was a perfect Advent song.
47:26
What song am I talking about, Dan?
47:28
Soon and very soon. We.
47:31
Are going to see the king so good.
47:35
You know, I don't know if you saw Peter, Peter Pearson sent
47:39
out his little prayer updates, you know, for people on Saturday
47:43
nights to be praying and stuff. And he included a link to that
47:49
song being sung by Andre Crouch in his older years.
47:52
But with kind of like, I don't know if it was the Gaither.
47:54
I I'm not sure what group it is, but Holy Crow, there was Jesse
47:58
Dixon and and he just took off on that song.
48:00
It was, it was fun. Listen to it.
48:02
And, and I loved how you sang it, Aaron, on Sunday morning
48:06
and, and people sang it. That's what I was excited about.
48:10
They were. Yeah, everybody was singing that
48:12
song at the end. That was that was great.
48:14
See, that's it was like such a great Advent song, and
48:19
especially like this particular liturgical year or lectionary
48:23
year. And Isaiah is so hopeful and so
48:27
bright with the joy. So you talk about joy.
48:32
You talk about this anticipation of his coming, this longing for
48:35
his coming, and then you sing soon and very soon you're like,
48:39
Yep, that was the perfect conclusion to this week.
48:42
So. OK, now wait, I got to add
48:44
something just, you know, a public honesty here.
48:49
I'd love to say I came up with that idea, but it was Carrie.
48:53
Okay, it all comes out. Behind every we.
48:57
Have the wrong person on the show today.
49:00
Behind every great man is a great woman rolling her eyes.
49:03
Oh. My God.
49:03
Perfect. I was, you know, she was asking
49:06
and and and she does she'll she'll be the first one to quiz
49:08
me about a sermon coming up. She says no.
49:10
OK, do you have any stories? Do you have any illustration?
49:12
And I say, Hun, don't go there. No battle rattle.
49:16
Yeah, battle rattle. But then as I was explaining
49:19
what I was going to do, she said, oh man, you should sing
49:21
soon. And very soon at the end, you
49:23
know, I said it's a great idea. So, but to your point, I do
49:27
think this series has been a candle series.
49:30
You know, sometimes in Advent we really focus on like the the
49:33
themes of the candle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:35
Sometimes we don't. But the first week was very
49:38
hope, the second week was very peace.
49:42
The third week was very joy and the fourth week I'll wait and
49:46
see. Come on Sunday.
49:50
Yes. All right.
49:51
Well, as we conclude, just a couple of logistics things.
49:54
We will probably not be recording another episode on
49:58
Christmas Eve. We'll probably be back in the
50:00
new year. Yeah, we actually could record
50:04
Christmas Eve. What, You're kidding?
50:09
I'm here. I'm not.
50:14
Now it's really Christmas Day. Oh, is it is Wednesday,
50:17
Christmas Day? Actually, Thursday, Thursday is
50:20
Christmas Day. Oh yeah, Thursday is Christmas
50:22
Day. All right.
50:23
Never mind. Sorry, folks.
50:25
We could record Christmas Eve, though.
50:27
You're not going to be here. I will, but I'll be busy.
50:31
Busy do. Everything's done.
50:33
I know. But I'm thinking about the thing
50:35
that has to be done. Yeah.
50:37
All right, fine. Hey, you know, and I should
50:39
probably say not on the podcast, but I'll share with everybody.
50:42
I'm going to be gone on Christmas Day.
50:44
We fly back east. I just, I need to talk to my
50:47
boss. Christmas time off.
50:49
It's yeah, it's a Christmas tradition.
50:51
People are going to do now. People are going to make sure
50:53
it's on the record. I'm going to tell Alex on the
50:55
podcast. And that, you know, we want to
51:00
hear an answer while we're live weather that.
51:03
Sounds great, Dan. Thank you very much.
51:06
Good. All right, on that strange
51:08
conclusion, I would like to what was that show Top Gear?
51:15
They would on that bombshell on every episode on that bombshell,
51:20
see you later and I still have to find the stop button and
51:25
logging in and goodbye everyone. It was wonderful to have you
51:33
with us, love. It.