Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Leee McEnememememey and Captain Cameron about their choice of Enlightenment (4/4)

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Talks to Leee McEnememememey and Captain Cameron about their choice of Enlightenment (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:39
  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:42
  commentary podcast that rocks the boat but never tips the boat
• 0:46
  over. I'm Lee Mcmenamy from the Police
• 0:48
  Box. Joining me, as ever from the
• 0:52
  post box itself is the one and only Mr. Cameron Phillips.
• 0:56
  Hello, how are we? Not as bad.
• 0:59
  Otherwise known as Miss Begbo to listeners out there.
• 1:01
  Yes, yes, to the special people. The people who know will know.
• 1:07
  And we're also joined, of course, by the salty Sea Dog
• 1:09
  himself. Everyone's favorite Rear Admiral
• 1:11
  is Joe Ford. Well, I'd like to know where you
• 1:15
  got the notion to wrap the boat. Don't wrap the boat, baby.
• 1:20
  Hello. Hello tonight, Matthew, I'm.
• 1:23
  Good sing songs. Let's sing all the way through
• 1:25
  this episode. I think we should.
• 1:27
  Boat songs, sea shanties, you know.
• 1:30
  Sea shanties. Remember when sea shanties were
• 1:32
  like a big thing? Like, you know.
• 1:34
  One few years ago, I'll tell you this, the name of the ship was
• 1:37
  the TARDIS. Now that was Legend of the Sea
• 1:40
  Devils. Yeah.
• 1:42
  Have we been on boats much in Doctor Who I?
• 1:45
  Don't. I don't think so.
• 1:46
  I don't think there's, I mean there's but I'll curse the black
• 1:50
  spot that's on a boat. That one.
• 1:54
  Oh, the smugglers. Smugglers.
• 1:56
  Yeah, yeah, the boats and that. Doctor Who and the Pirates.
• 2:01
  It's much in Doctor Who. Do they?
• 2:03
  No, Well, it's just those, isn't it, Smugglers.
• 2:06
  Yeah, and this. Curse of the Black Spot and
• 2:10
  this. Yeah, you think?
• 2:12
  You know, for an adventure series like Doctor Who, it would
• 2:14
  be ripe for pirates. You'd think, you'd think.
• 2:19
  Yeah. But when it ends up with Colin
• 2:22
  Baker doing Gilbert and Sullivan then.
• 2:26
  That's maybe when he stealed away from it after this, just in
• 2:28
  case. I am the very model of a
• 2:31
  Gallifrey in Buccaneer. Do you remember that one?
• 2:33
  Have you heard it? Thankful in all, OK.
• 2:38
  He sings loads. It's really very good.
• 2:44
  Well now please, I'm in your hands.
• 2:48
  Oh, of course I, well, I forgot I was in charge for this
• 2:51
  episode. Oh, the power.
• 2:52
  The power I, I think we should crack on before we get into more
• 2:56
  Pepto Bismol chat and anything else we've been going on about.
• 3:01
  Yeah. Should we begin the 4th episode
• 3:02
  then? OK, let's go.
• 3:05
  Let's do it. Let's do it.
• 3:06
  Three. I need 2.
• 3:08
  I don't want less enlightenment. I mean, you may think you've got
• 3:12
  rivet in conversation on the commentary, but between episodes
• 3:15
  like we were talking about our favorite biscuits as well, such
• 3:19
  a luminaries as pink wafers, caramel wafers.
• 3:23
  Was that right? Caramel wafers.
• 3:25
  Yeah. Yeah, that was it.
• 3:27
  Cameron likes extra chocolatey, chippy digestives, don't you
• 3:31
  Cameron? Yeah, Oh, yes, it's good.
• 3:33
  Mainly because I fell out of my work.
• 3:36
  Well, visits my work I think stole them from the local
• 3:39
  biscuit factory. Stole, you say?
• 3:42
  Yeah, no, I won't name him. I won't name him.
• 3:46
  He comes in, he's on a shock liability scooter and he out for
• 3:51
  people who don't know, working on opticians.
• 3:52
  And he will because he appreciates us so much.
• 3:55
  He will occasionally just like give us gifts and just hand
• 3:58
  boxes over as he goes past. And Carlyle has a big Mcvities
• 4:03
  factory in it, as everyone in Carlyle will know.
• 4:06
  And one day he just gave us these white 2 white boxes they
• 4:11
  just had Mcvitie stamped on the side.
• 4:13
  Other than that were blank. And so we put them downstairs
• 4:16
  and thought nothing more of it and we opened them and there was
• 4:19
  these EE chocolate digestives, which at the time hadn't even
• 4:23
  been advertised. Like hen's teeth?
• 4:26
  Yeah, and we were like. Before they'd even hit the
• 4:28
  shelves. Yeah.
• 4:29
  And we were like kind of going and then there was a lot of kind
• 4:33
  of going, you know, like literally just like, you know,
• 4:36
  boxes that would have been just delivered to a supermarket ready
• 4:38
  to put it on a shelf, you know, like 12, it sort of wrapped rows
• 4:42
  of biscuits in each box, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 4:45
  And we had to kind of look at each other and go, do you think
• 4:48
  he's been on the nick? Which then which then led to a
• 4:52
  whole thing of how fast can you get away when you're on the shop
• 4:57
  mobility scooter, which the answer we just got was about 5
• 5:01
  miles an hour. Do they do tours?
• 5:02
  Can you imagine the smell of the digestive factory?
• 5:05
  Oh yeah, it's every day in Carlisle.
• 5:08
  You can tell what they're making because it smells of
• 5:10
  aforementioned biscuit. I used to live in York for a
• 5:12
  while when the Kit Kat factory was still there.
• 5:14
  Oh, maybe. First of all, I think I just got
• 5:16
  a waft of Kit Kat every day. We had a Hovis factory down the
• 5:20
  road from us in Crawley and the bread smells that came out of
• 5:23
  it. Oh boy.
• 5:24
  Oh, sorry. Yeah.
• 5:25
  Enlightenment. What's that?
• 5:26
  Enlightenment. Yeah, sorry.
• 5:28
  Bread, biscuits, cake. Yes, I've used this line a few
• 5:31
  times. I am empty.
• 5:32
  You give me being. I want them.
• 5:35
  I want you. Isn't this how I seduced you,
• 5:37
  Cameron? It is.
• 5:39
  It is. I was.
• 5:40
  I was putty in your hands. Your.
• 5:42
  Thoughts. Should be my thoughts.
• 5:44
  It's a bit icky though, isn't it?
• 5:46
  It's a bit full on for the first opening line, isn't it?
• 5:48
  But. Again, this is like this is what
• 5:50
  I'm saying about you know, he's there good.
• 5:52
  What is love? What is love?
• 5:53
  I want existence. He's he doesn't.
• 5:55
  Know Jones? He he, he doesn't no, he's like
• 6:02
  he's he's this your all powerful God like being that suddenly had
• 6:07
  to engage in a human emotion for the first time in his life.
• 6:10
  And I think it's like I'm going. To make a dreadful analogy, but
• 6:15
  it is like just taking like heroin for the first time,
• 6:18
  right? It's a level of existence that
• 6:20
  you've never considered. No wonder he's hooks on it.
• 6:25
  I think he's only busted this to Scottish people in this
• 6:28
  broadcast. I.
• 6:29
  Was going to say just watch trainspot and went they're
• 6:32
  Scottish. They're probably isn't my
• 6:36
  industry. One of one of them from
• 6:39
  Edinburgh he must. Oh, this is wonderful.
• 6:44
  So obviously we've got Turlo, who's an untrustworthy character
• 6:48
  anyway, pretending to be an untrustworthy character and sell
• 6:52
  out the doctor. The doctor's playing along,
• 6:55
  going oh, you've betrayed me to it's.
• 6:59
  There's some interesting dynamics here.
• 7:02
  Here we are. Don't push.
• 7:05
  And it is wonderful where Linda Baron then takes him into the
• 7:08
  room and sort of seduces him a bit and goes, oh, thank you for
• 7:12
  pointing out the spy. But then she goes, right, you're
• 7:15
  next for the plank. I know you're a spy as well.
• 7:19
  Yeah, that time we're not Doctor Who tradition if he's a spy is
• 7:23
  Ben versus. Always get Bens voice in my head
• 7:26
  at these moments like he's a spy, he's a spy.
• 7:31
  We do in the Great Teabag Mystery.
• 7:33
  Again, those were lines, weren't they, in that?
• 7:35
  I felt that way, yeah. OK, it feels fruitless to do
• 7:38
  this at this point, but I am going to ask you a serious
• 7:40
  intellectual question and that is do you like these sideways
• 7:48
  quirky Doctor Who adventures? Because this is not a
• 7:51
  historical, it's not set on Earth.
• 7:53
  It's got massive out there ideas.
• 7:55
  So it's a bit like the mine robber.
• 7:57
  It's a bit like great show in the Galaxy.
• 7:59
  It's a bit like Edge of destruction.
• 8:01
  Do you like those? Are those are those your Doctor
• 8:04
  Who or do you prefer the sort of more trad stuff?
• 8:07
  Lee. I quite like things like this.
• 8:11
  I mean, Doctor Who should always have the ambition to do stuff,
• 8:14
  even if it can't possibly realistically realise it on
• 8:18
  screen. It's like Peter Capaldi says
• 8:20
  about the Red Planet, don't look at the shortcomings, just admire
• 8:23
  the ambition. And if they get away with that
• 8:26
  here because they've got all the set dressing and various props
• 8:29
  it can call on from being off productions and bring it in so
• 8:32
  it works on that level. But yeah, if what's the point of
• 8:36
  doing Doctor Who if not to have big ideas like this?
• 8:39
  I think absolutely got the. Actors to pull it off here as
• 8:42
  well like sometimes sometimes the ambition is high like
• 8:45
  something like Underworld which. Which whatever you might think
• 8:48
  of it, it's got huge ideas, yeah, but a sonomialistic cast
• 8:53
  that can't be bothered to bring any of that to life with any
• 8:56
  excitement. Whereas well characterised
• 9:00
  people as well. So on sort of every level, it's
• 9:02
  quite engaging. And there's definitely a place
• 9:04
  for trad stuff as well. But yeah, it should have.
• 9:06
  It should always be big ideas, regardless of whether you can
• 9:09
  actually achieve that. Just go for it.
• 9:11
  How? About you Cameron, do you want
• 9:13
  sort of mind, robber, sort of fan, or do you prefer the
• 9:15
  invasion? No, I, I, I like kind of how I,
• 9:19
  I, I struggle to think of another show that has the format
• 9:24
  that could handle doing stuff like this.
• 9:27
  You know, I mean, I can't, as they always say, Doctor Who is
• 9:32
  by its very nature a show that can absolutely go anywhere and
• 9:35
  do anything, any space or time and, you know, other sites.
• 9:39
  Can't blast to do that. Yeah, at least has a sort of
• 9:45
  certain foundation to launch those kind of ideas from that
• 9:50
  might be kind of out there and you're a little bit off kilter,
• 9:56
  but that is absolutely fine in this.
• 9:58
  You know, I like the, I like the stuff when Doctor Who sort of
• 10:02
  gets brave and kind of does stuff with the format and stuff
• 10:07
  with, you know, mix in historical and science fiction
• 10:11
  elements together. That's it's kind of its best a
• 10:16
  lot in the time. Can you think of any new series
• 10:19
  examples of breaking the format like this?
• 10:23
  Of like just generally just with structure.
• 10:26
  Well, or or tone or just it being way outside of the norm.
• 10:32
  Like heaven said, I don't. A good example, yes.
• 10:35
  I mean, heaven, Heaven said is literally just like, you know,
• 10:37
  one guy running around the castle for Heaven said sounds
• 10:40
  boring when you describe it in one sense.
• 10:43
  What? You mean it sounds boring?
• 10:44
  It is. Well, well, yeah.
• 10:46
  But it's it's it's and it is absolutely just giving Peter
• 10:50
  Capaldi, you know, you know, a baton to run with.
• 10:55
  I mean, I was thinking stuff like Midnight is a story that is
• 11:01
  very much based on the sort of one idea of premise of there's
• 11:05
  something going to read your mind and then eventually take
• 11:08
  over your mind. And that is an incredible
• 11:12
  example. And I talked about, I was very
• 11:16
  mean about it. But I think he'll agree it is an
• 11:19
  experiment Once Upon Time in the Flux series, which is doing
• 11:24
  something you've never seen before, which is everyone get
• 11:26
  all those multiple parts and crazy ideas in there.
• 11:30
  Maybe a little bit confused for some, but yeah, that sort of
• 11:34
  thing. Even to a certain extent, the
• 11:36
  girl who waited like that as well.
• 11:37
  It's not a place. I mean with ideas of time and
• 11:39
  things being out of sync so. Dalton Bubble is another really
• 11:44
  out there in terms. Of mine.
• 11:48
  Awful. But yeah, I'll get the idea.
• 11:50
  Yeah. At what point did the ball drop,
• 11:53
  gentleman? Straight away or at the end?
• 11:57
  Oh, silence. I'll see.
• 12:02
  I've noticed all the microaggressions towards this
• 12:04
  homosexual today. All right.
• 12:09
  Oh, sorry. No, wait, that was
• 12:10
  microaggressions towards the heterosexuals for me.
• 12:13
  Yeah, that's right. That's got to see if the rumour.
• 12:15
  Must get that right. Yeah.
• 12:17
  Oh my God. Lee John is straddling that
• 12:19
  wheel now. Look at look at the commitment
• 12:21
  on a man's face. There's a lot of, there's a lot
• 12:24
  of gritted teeth as he bends over.
• 12:26
  There's a lot of hair on his chest as well.
• 12:28
  I don't know. I've Jesus, I do feel sorry for
• 12:33
  these actors behind in the period costumes.
• 12:36
  Like, you know, I could have been amazing in this.
• 12:38
  Give me a line. Instead, you've got a fellow
• 12:42
  from imagination. Is this running out of steam or
• 12:46
  do you think this is a good length, this story and and is it
• 12:49
  sort of divvying out ideas at a rate and then does it come to a
• 12:54
  satisfying conclusion? I realised that was 10
• 12:56
  questions. Earlier on as well paced, I
• 13:00
  think it's got the balance just right.
• 13:03
  There's a kind of weird calmness to it, though.
• 13:05
  I know at the start I said it's you know, it's a race, but it's
• 13:08
  slow. There is a kind of weird kind of
• 13:11
  like non urgency to the entirety of this story.
• 13:14
  And I'm not saying that as like a bad thing, but just I say it's
• 13:18
  just it feels almost like enlightenment is often played
• 13:22
  out with like half speed. It's.
• 13:25
  You know, like you're like when you're in a dream, yeah, and
• 13:28
  you're running through treacle and there's weird stuff
• 13:31
  happening. There is a it's not quite
• 13:33
  surreal, like something like Warriors Gate or Kinder, but it
• 13:39
  does have that sort of eeriness about it, doesn't it?
• 13:42
  Yeah, it's complete, right? Yeah.
• 13:44
  The whole thing's just, you know, I think it's just the, you
• 13:46
  know, the, the speech patterns as well for the ephemerals.
• 13:49
  Like it's like, you know, they're always going yes.
• 13:53
  And it's what is love, and it's, yeah, stuff like that.
• 13:58
  I do wonder if all of those scenes read differently, though.
• 14:01
  If you are a woman watching this, I think, I think you're
• 14:05
  coming at those things from a completely different direction
• 14:08
  of possibly being in a man's world and that sort of behaviour
• 14:14
  being acceptable. So, I mean, I mean, I have heard
• 14:18
  a lot of those readings and I think sometimes they can be
• 14:20
  overstated. I think a lot of critiques of
• 14:23
  classic who can be overstated because, you know, fucking out,
• 14:25
  we've got something to say. But I think there is a germ of
• 14:30
  truth to that, Yeah. Oh, Pete Davidson can run and
• 14:36
  scream as much as he wants. He's never got a top Mark
• 14:39
  striction going. We go here as Linda Baron's
• 14:45
  audition for Holly and Red Dwarf.
• 14:53
  Focus your mind. Man, Holly's so great.
• 14:57
  Here we go. Is this the bit where like Peter
• 15:02
  Davidson and Janet Field are just running around the same
• 15:05
  corridor? But it does give it a bit of
• 15:07
  dynamism, doesn't it? Like, I mean, I don't mean this
• 15:11
  as a criticism to say that Peter Davidson does running up
• 15:14
  corridors extremely well because it is part and parcel of the
• 15:17
  job. But he does give it a sort of
• 15:19
  breathless energy that makes you feel like, my God, are they
• 15:22
  moving the cameras or is he just running very fast?
• 15:25
  Yeah, kind of work. So there's only like 3, maybe 4
• 15:29
  different sets and this whole thing, because it asks the sort
• 15:30
  of claustrophobic feel of it. Yeah, and Bella, as a result of,
• 15:35
  you know, all the difficulties off screen and maybe having a
• 15:37
  smaller budget, they can only use certain things, but it
• 15:41
  really works than this I think. I think Linda Baron would make a
• 15:44
  wonderful Holly. You know, can we remember the
• 15:47
  ending of Quake? We are talking Shape of the
• 15:50
  Century. But only using Valentine Dal's
• 15:53
  voice at all things. What does he say?
• 15:56
  Listen, suckers, I've only got one thing to say to you.
• 15:58
  And then Linda Barrel will pop out and go.
• 16:01
  What's happening, dudes? It'd be.
• 16:06
  Great. Everybody's dead, Dave.
• 16:10
  She's in Red Dwarf as Holly, but she keeps Valentine Dale's
• 16:13
  voice. Is that what?
• 16:13
  We're saying that's what I. Like, oh, Can you imagine?
• 16:16
  Trouble in the trending machine on the lower decks needs
• 16:21
  repaired. Oh, that would be wonderful
• 16:26
  here. We go look at it.
• 16:30
  And then Linda Baron, you know, when in the parallel universe
• 16:33
  and the female and the male Holly meet each other, Baron and
• 16:36
  Valentine Dial meet each other. But Valentine Doll's got Linda
• 16:40
  Baron's voice. Oh, great telly.
• 16:45
  What's doing is running around now.
• 16:48
  Arjun Valentine Day, I'll forget, you know, presenting the
• 16:50
  kids TV show and taking his duck to the supermarket.
• 16:55
  Slather and Rottweiler, wouldn't it?
• 16:59
  No, I bet he was just lovely. And he wore pink fluffy slippers
• 17:03
  and, you know, probably, yeah, drunk mint juleps and things
• 17:06
  like that. I bet he was, you know, all
• 17:08
  these ones with their horrible voices of Jeffrey Beavers, by
• 17:11
  all accounts is a charming man. And yet he's the quintessence of
• 17:14
  evil when he gets beyond the microphone.
• 17:16
  Yeah. I'm just thinking of Valentine's
• 17:19
  Day on different kids TV shows now, yeah.
• 17:24
  Oh, I know he'd be brilliant. Can you imagine if he was the he
• 17:29
  was tray guard and Nightmare? Oh, Dusty.
• 17:33
  Oh my God. Dusty dead life force receding.
• 17:41
  Sidestep to the left, gentleman. Do it now, boy.
• 17:47
  Oh dear, your friend seems to have expired.
• 17:54
  Oh, it'd. Be great, Oh Crystal Mave coming
• 17:58
  mumsy. He could be in everything.
• 18:04
  He would make anything better, wouldn't he?
• 18:06
  That'd be great. I, I, you know, we could get
• 18:09
  like AI forced upon you on your phone these days.
• 18:11
  I'd be. I'd use it at Valentine Day.
• 18:13
  AL's voice. Can you make it Mr. Bronson in
• 18:16
  Grange Hill then, please? Oh, that.
• 18:17
  'D be amazing, Can you imagine that?
• 18:20
  You boy, can you think of a more Doctor Who premise than Doctor
• 18:25
  Who rushes through a series of corridors on an Edwardian
• 18:30
  sailing ship, flying through space to get a red jewel that
• 18:35
  has been focused to be turned into a huge explosive to which
• 18:39
  he has to run on the deck surrounded by stars and throw
• 18:43
  that explosion into the void. Oh, same joke, two different
• 18:52
  shows there's. A lot of imagination here
• 18:58
  though. Yes, and this is what I mean
• 19:01
  this. This is a line about his mind.
• 19:03
  Oh, there it. Is.
• 19:07
  So if my magic guitar disappeared.
• 19:08
  Oh, they covered it with a line as well, but Doctor, the console
• 19:11
  blew up. Oh well, I probably did it in
• 19:12
  the world of good. OK, well, that's that's always.
• 19:16
  There they are, all three Eternals.
• 19:18
  Louise Estelle. Oh God, the way he's holding
• 19:22
  her. Yeah, it's a bit of a firm grip
• 19:25
  going on there. It's a little bit, yeah.
• 19:27
  Now there's a very interesting moment in a minute where it
• 19:30
  appears the doctor's been chucked off the ship.
• 19:33
  Yeah, yeah. And Mariner says to Tegan.
• 19:36
  The sparkle has gone from your mind.
• 19:38
  And I've seen many a shipper and license denied essay written
• 19:44
  around that line. And what the hell was that
• 19:47
  saying about Tegan? Is it that she's lost her friend
• 19:49
  or that she feels something more?
• 19:53
  It's a nice line though. I mean, all that's left is grey
• 19:56
  shadows. As a description of grief,
• 19:59
  that's pretty good. Not like that.
• 20:02
  Like you after I'll come on the Polish box.
• 20:06
  You bring the sparkle to everybody's life.
• 20:09
  You don't beat the. Dude, Joe, don't put yourself
• 20:11
  down those. Terrible silhouettes on the
• 20:14
  screen. There's Morph and Chaz fall into
• 20:17
  the. Yeah, the trouble is that
• 20:19
  they're clearly in the shape of men, and yet the twist is one of
• 20:21
  them is Rack and the other one is Lee John.
• 20:25
  Yeah. Yeah, well, neither one of those
• 20:27
  silhouettes had massive tits. Well, no, no, I mean the special
• 20:32
  effects budget only stretches so far, Joe.
• 20:34
  I should be in the person doing the silhouette.
• 20:36
  They want me to do Linda Baron right. 20 grand.
• 20:43
  Fried eggs or melons, you know. He's asked what is love?
• 20:47
  And now he's asked what is grief?
• 20:48
  You know, I mean, there's all sorts of little, you know, these
• 20:51
  human emotions are an alien thing to these.
• 20:55
  There's there's this is a very rare thing to be able to say
• 20:59
  about classic Who There's some nuance in this script, isn't
• 21:02
  there? If you want to dig, there's some
• 21:04
  nuance. That's by surprisingly, she
• 21:08
  would never have brought back. Well, did you not hear about
• 21:11
  point of Entry, her second story idea?
• 21:15
  So that was made into a big Finnish audio starring Colin
• 21:19
  Baker and Nick O'Brien. It is a historical and it is
• 21:26
  amazingly good. Now they've did the script on
• 21:29
  the back of a one page treatment that she actually essentially
• 21:32
  wrote out the plot. And then one of the big finished
• 21:35
  writers, I think it was Johnny Morris.
• 21:36
  It was one day. Oh no, Mark Platt, sorry.
• 21:38
  So the dialogue was gorgeous. It would have been great.
• 21:41
  It was a really good, but I think they abandoned it.
• 21:44
  It was in the season 22 to 23 mix and it was going to need a
• 21:51
  lot of location work so. Yeah, budget dictated otherwise.
• 21:55
  They so they were talking though after.
• 21:57
  This. That's good there.
• 22:01
  Yeah, now those birds on the head there.
• 22:05
  Now when you put a bright spotlight on the pair of them.
• 22:08
  It's one step removed from finger bobs, isn't it?
• 22:12
  Finger bobs. Do you remember finger mouse?
• 22:16
  Finger mouse. Yeah, I do remember finger
• 22:18
  mouse. With Valentine Day.
• 22:19
  Oh yeah. Good night everyone.
• 22:30
  Do. You remember the all these?
• 22:32
  Impressions. The admission?
• 22:33
  Who's the guy that did finger mouse again?
• 22:35
  I can't remember. Oh, I know what you mean.
• 22:40
  With this, but it's it's it's the fact that apparently in the
• 22:42
  last ever time he filmed finger mouse, he was that fed up with
• 22:45
  it and he had arthritis and all this kind of stuff and it hurt
• 22:48
  that he drowned finger mouths, said him on his sleet in his cup
• 22:51
  of coffee. No, really.
• 22:54
  Yeah. My childhood gone.
• 22:56
  Thank you. No.
• 22:58
  Problem. I think the footage exists as
• 22:59
  well. Isn't it on YouTube somewhere?
• 23:02
  I don't know Next. You'll be telling me that.
• 23:04
  Before. You'll be telling me that Morph
• 23:06
  went for a meat grinder. Yeah, he just comes back, morphs
• 23:11
  like, you know, just conform himself again.
• 23:14
  Or, you know, Sooty and Sweep went in with the whites or
• 23:17
  something like that. I think Sweep had seen shit
• 23:27
  because, well, you know, he was mute.
• 23:29
  Pizza and shit. It's.
• 23:30
  About 1000 yard stare on him as well.
• 23:32
  He's safe. Man, yeah, and he's always used
• 23:34
  to be sort of screaming, doesn't he?
• 23:38
  I think. I think.
• 23:39
  He's got no man. You went there.
• 23:41
  He has got a man's hand up his ass, let's be fair.
• 23:45
  Sweet thought in. That's all I'm saying.
• 23:50
  OK, I've got to try and bring us back to the story for a second.
• 23:53
  Yes, sorry. Do you like this climax?
• 23:56
  So the climax is the climax of this story, plus the climax to
• 24:00
  this arc. Will Turlo make the right
• 24:03
  decision? Will Light win over Dark?
• 24:08
  I think it works as a kind of overall into Turlo's
• 24:11
  introduction and you got literal good versus evil all around the
• 24:17
  table. So yes, I think it does work.
• 24:20
  Some people may say morality and Doctor Who is quite black and
• 24:23
  white here it literally is. It is literally it's signposted,
• 24:27
  you know? But I suppose Turlo's in the
• 24:28
  middle there. The sort of the, the, the
• 24:30
  nuance, the depth, you know? Yeah, somewhere in the middle.
• 24:33
  It's it's the kind of reveal of Black Guardian was put in Turtle
• 24:36
  up to this all along. I can't believe I didn't say it
• 24:40
  was the morally grey area given he's wearing a grey shirt.
• 24:43
  God damn it. He's the moral.
• 24:48
  He's the moral compass of Doctor Who.
• 24:52
  And excuse me, what like you? Yeah.
• 24:57
  You are the Turlo or the police box.
• 24:58
  What's your I'm the Turlo, the police box?
• 25:01
  I can't help but no, it's Dave ain't here today and you were
• 25:05
  putting a rock away when you came in the room at the start.
• 25:07
  Of the Yeah, it was you, No, Dave's Artigon.
• 25:13
  What happened to the Black Guardian there?
• 25:15
  Now he's an almighty God of the universe.
• 25:16
  Surely he can't be destroyed by a bit of light?
• 25:18
  No, I think he's, he's just, he's just temporarily just
• 25:22
  indisposed. I don't think he's dead, OK?
• 25:25
  Well, this is a. Miracle of the Russell T Davis
• 25:26
  hasn't brought him back. Well, I was going to say they do
• 25:28
  say he'll return for 1/3 time and it you know, fine, Will is
• 25:31
  going to come back as a giant fucking zebra for some reason
• 25:33
  Russell T Davis is. Yeah, a decaying CGI zebra.
• 25:38
  We've got crows along the. Ground, you know, 2 kicks.
• 25:43
  How would you how would you tell a decaying like zebra any
• 25:47
  different from a decaying horse? I mean, it wouldn't be any less
• 25:50
  absurd to suggest the Black Guardian would come back as like
• 25:53
  a, you know, if we just took a lighter to sweep, Yeah.
• 25:57
  And sort of burnt him horrible. And it made him melt a bit.
• 26:00
  I I'm going to ask a question here on behalf of myself and
• 26:03
  behalf of Vossy McCall, who'll be thinking the same thing.
• 26:06
  What is your problem with sweep? Oh no, I love Sweep.
• 26:09
  He was my favorite because he was the mischief, wasn't he?
• 26:13
  Soon was such a prick. Oh, what are you doing over
• 26:16
  there? Sweep.
• 26:17
  Yeah, she. Did what?
• 26:20
  I beg your pardon? Well, she did get pregnant at
• 26:25
  one point. Let's not gloss over that that
• 26:27
  was a problem. We're talking about Soyinka when
• 26:29
  the story ended. Was it finished?
• 26:33
  Yes. Yes.
• 26:36
  Now. Please, we got at least 25
• 26:39
  minutes of conversation about enlightenment in there
• 26:41
  somewhere. Over 2 hours and the.
• 26:43
  Rest was just amazing. Fellas, you are going to have to
• 26:48
  do your free fabulous things. So here's your chance to talk
• 26:51
  about enlightenment now, right at the end.
• 26:54
  Oh boy, yeah, it's been a while wasn't it?
• 26:58
  So let's should I start then and show you how this sort of things
• 27:01
  start me and then we'll go Lee and then we'll go Cam.
• 27:06
  All right, all right, OK Cam, you're taking up the rear.
• 27:08
  You're right with that. Yeah, go on then.
• 27:12
  You've never complained before, right?
• 27:16
  My first thing is going to be it's going to be Fiona Cummins
• 27:20
  direction, which I think she's handed a tricky task 1 to
• 27:24
  convince you that you're in this claustrophobic ship in
• 27:28
  Television Centre, which she does extremely well in episode
• 27:31
  1. There's loads of atmosphere
• 27:32
  there, but you know, I know all the set designers, all of the
• 27:36
  costumers, everyone's putting in 100% here.
• 27:40
  Then when it goes on to another scale, the ethereal nature of
• 27:44
  the scenes outside, I just think the direction is I think of the
• 27:47
  four stories she does, Gastro, Velva, Snake Dance,
• 27:50
  Enlightenment, Planet of Fire. They're all very well done, but
• 27:54
  this is probably visually her strongest Lee.
• 28:01
  I can only echo what you've just said and if you want to come to
• 28:03
  be my choice as well. I mean, yeah, especially
• 28:06
  considered the chaos that was going on behind the scenes, the
• 28:08
  strikes and all sorts. And that's getting delayed in
• 28:11
  studio time and all really being completely like a couple of
• 28:14
  weeks before the first episode goes out to wrangle all that and
• 28:19
  make a sort of cohesive, properly and as an entertaining
• 28:23
  Doctor Who story. She's worked medicals to get
• 28:27
  this thing out. So yeah, bear choice number
• 28:29
  wouldn't be her choice #2 Lee John, of course.
• 28:32
  Excuse me, I. Thought we're doing three
• 28:34
  things. It's his turn now.
• 28:37
  OK, sorry. And then?
• 28:38
  We get you really haven't done many of these, have you?
• 28:41
  I'm prepared for this, you haven't.
• 28:43
  I'm so sorry about that. I'm sorry, it's.
• 28:47
  Fine, it's fine. I Enlightenment works really
• 28:53
  well. The fact that it's a high
• 28:57
  concept Doctor Who story that could have at any moment kind of
• 29:02
  slipped and disappeared up its own arse, but doesn't.
• 29:05
  It still gets a belt of a Doctor Who story out with it.
• 29:09
  You know what I mean? It's like, as we were saying,
• 29:11
  it's one of them sort of like off kilter ideas that in all
• 29:17
  reality it shouldn't work, but it just kind of does.
• 29:22
  You say up its own arse. Do you mean like that water
• 29:25
  bottle you pulled out earlier on in the story?
• 29:28
  That was it's, it's, it's still chilled.
• 29:32
  It's a disturbing colour when you bring it that nice to the
• 29:35
  camera. What the hell is it?
• 29:38
  It's been so, yeah. It's like black gun juice it.
• 29:41
  Looks like urine, what is it? I'm not drinking.
• 29:49
  Times are time for the day. Cost of living crisis and all
• 29:54
  that. My second off school biscuits as
• 29:56
  well so. You know, it's not going to be
• 29:57
  Lee John, because I know that's coming up in a minute.
• 30:01
  It's Linda Barrett, and it ain't for her tits, although they are
• 30:03
  magnificent. And you know what?
• 30:05
  Before anyone starts throwing accusations, yeah, that we're
• 30:07
  being sexist on this call, boobs are magnificent, all right?
• 30:11
  Absolutely there to be celebrated.
• 30:14
  I mean, like Baronette says, what the hell are you going to
• 30:16
  do with them? But show them off.
• 30:17
  And so, yeah, get off your high horses and enjoy tits, OK.
• 30:22
  Right. Yeah.
• 30:23
  Linda Baron, who I think is delivering A overtly theatrical
• 30:29
  performance in this, but it suits the story perfectly.
• 30:33
  And she comes in to deliver a bit of camp and a bit of fun
• 30:37
  just when it's really needed. And just her tying up Turlo and
• 30:42
  frightening with that knife. But there's another great image
• 30:44
  for the story. So yeah, Linda Baron and her
• 30:47
  tits. Get off your high horse and
• 30:52
  enjoy that's. Right.
• 30:55
  That's the new T-shirt we should have.
• 30:58
  Don't you agree though? I mean, I'm, I'm not going to
• 31:01
  stand anywhere in that one. I.
• 31:02
  Don't want women to be exploited but I want them to be celebrated
• 31:06
  and a part of women is tits. Of all the people, I thought I
• 31:16
  would say that line. I know that's my fault.
• 31:19
  I'd say that I'm not expecting destiny.
• 31:21
  In this Doctor Who fandom group, we have never in a billion
• 31:27
  years, but I thought it'd be true.
• 31:29
  I did say I had an unusual relationship with my mother
• 31:31
  earlier, didn't I? Yeah, you're listening to on the
• 31:37
  psychiatrist's couch. Let's.
• 31:39
  Not go there. All right, Lee.
• 31:43
  Yes, EE, what's your second choice?
• 31:47
  Well, your babies to learn it's it's Lee John who saw that
• 31:51
  coming. No, I I think just one of the
• 31:54
  most gloriously bad performances in all of Doctor Who.
• 31:58
  Just I know there's a whole thing about stunt casting in
• 32:03
  this era and unusual people being brought in like your
• 32:06
  barrel reads, your Ken Dodds. I was Lee John, the first choice
• 32:12
  for this role. I mean.
• 32:14
  Probably. Not, surely not.
• 32:16
  That strikes me of JNT stunt casting, Yeah.
• 32:20
  Oh, he's available, is he? We'll get him in quick.
• 32:22
  But God love him, he gives it his best shot and there's a
• 32:25
  little sort of insecure glances off camera when he dealt his
• 32:28
  line just to make sure he's doing it right.
• 32:30
  So he obviously wants to do a good job.
• 32:32
  He wants to add acting to your CV as well as being least of an
• 32:36
  imagination. And you know for the few flames
• 32:39
  that he gets as still aid and is within the disability is is
• 32:43
  memorable. I'll say that about you.
• 32:45
  Don't forget Lee John's performance in a hurry.
• 32:47
  So Lee John do. You think it's for sort of
• 32:49
  commitment with a ship's wheel. He should get the Oscar.
• 32:53
  I mean, yeah, yeah, create a category for that alone, and
• 32:56
  there's only one. Nominee.
• 32:58
  Yeah, then hate me and the wheel.
• 33:04
  As a second point, the cliffhangers.
• 33:06
  Oh yes. I think the cliffhangers deserve
• 33:09
  a mention in this because they're all I'd say the first
• 33:12
  one is the the advance of the whole story, and it changes the
• 33:15
  whole setting. We've got Turlo nearly getting
• 33:20
  fried. You've got Linda Baron looking
• 33:23
  towards the camera breaking the 4th wall.
• 33:26
  It There's some really, really good cliffhangers in this.
• 33:29
  You know when she laughs straight out the camera?
• 33:32
  Yeah, Yeah. It's sort of haunt you.
• 33:35
  You know, of all the women, the fabulous tits on show laughing
• 33:38
  at you, saying, yeah, you're never having them, all right?
• 33:40
  You're never having them, no. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:46
  OK, I've got to stop talking about tips.
• 33:48
  Are they? It's.
• 33:50
  Kind of difficult. Ohh she's my second thing then
• 33:57
  where she's not going to be that.
• 33:58
  Is this whole, is this whole thing just an act, Joe?
• 34:01
  Is this? What to get close to women
• 34:03
  whenever it is, it's. Very.
• 34:07
  That's why I've got loads of female friends.
• 34:09
  You can you can try that dress on in front of me.
• 34:13
  Do you know what, though? It kind of works against me in a
• 34:15
  way as well. You know, that was the case
• 34:17
  because they come round my house, they go to the bloody Lou
• 34:19
  with the door open, keep talking to me.
• 34:21
  I don't want to see that, thank you very much.
• 34:23
  But they're so comfortable. Yeah.
• 34:26
  Yeah. I like potpourri, That's all I'm
• 34:29
  going to say, right? The second thing is, is why
• 34:34
  you're so surprised down there. The nonsense that comes out on
• 34:37
  your podcast, the obscenities. Poor pig bean.
• 34:44
  Joel. Sorry, the second thing is going
• 34:48
  to be oh the doctor Tegan and Turlo who for one time and one
• 34:53
  time money until Frontiers. I think they all get a great
• 34:56
  role in Frontiers as well, from Chris, Rich, Bidmeade.
• 35:00
  They're all given a big slice of the pie, some actual character
• 35:03
  development. The Doctor gets that great
• 35:05
  moment where he stands up to the Eternals.
• 35:09
  Turlo gets, you know, a magnitude of moments in this.
• 35:14
  And taking all the stuff with Mariner, the beautiful dress
• 35:17
  that she gets to wear. Yeah, it's just like, this is
• 35:20
  how you do it. This is how you engage with your
• 35:23
  regulars and give them interesting things to do.
• 35:26
  And it battles me after it was done this way, but they didn't
• 35:29
  do it again. Yeah, Lee, you need a third one
• 35:35
  now, I'm afraid. A fourth one, let's go one of
• 35:39
  the direct instances. And this year that the
• 35:40
  companions is getting things to do, the three regulars get an
• 35:45
  equal amount of the story. It's just yeah, yeah, I'm going
• 35:50
  into too much detail. Turn low and he can actually get
• 35:53
  stuff through in this. This contributes to the plot,
• 35:56
  moves things along. And that's not always true in
• 35:58
  the Davison era. So yeah, bye.
• 36:01
  A real example of companions having a fair chunk of the story
• 36:05
  to get on with and. Cameron, you've got to finish us
• 36:08
  off now. Yes.
• 36:13
  The first thing you've said that.
• 36:15
  No, there's. Been a lot.
• 36:17
  Yeah, a bit impatient sometimes. Yeah, I know.
• 36:21
  Why do you keep looking at your watch all the time?
• 36:27
  It feels very pressured. God, there's only a certain
• 36:31
  amount of risks it can take. I'll just say this, I'm used for
• 36:34
  the 75 minute, all right, but you're like the four part.
• 36:39
  Yeah, you know. Slow, ponderous, impressed in
• 36:43
  the captain's uniform. I just back off my glasses.
• 36:49
  Well. Camera place finishes off for
• 36:52
  fuck's sake. The model work with the ships
• 36:56
  and the effects of the yield on the film.
• 37:00
  That could have looked a bit naff, but I think it looks
• 37:02
  really really nice in this. I'm sorry, what did you say?
• 37:07
  Sorry, the model work. The model, yeah, yeah, ships.
• 37:10
  Yeah. They're all like competing
• 37:11
  different ones floating in space.
• 37:13
  Looks amazing. We're all delirious now.
• 37:16
  I mean, it's 11:00 at night. He's been to a concert, he's
• 37:19
  been working, I've been doing fuck all today.
• 37:23
  Those were wonderful reasons, gentlemen.
• 37:25
  I mean, I don't know how successful we were at
• 37:28
  celebrating enlightenment tonight, but I think in terms of
• 37:32
  delivering entertainment to the hamster community, we've done a
• 37:36
  sterling. Job, I think we've given your
• 37:38
  listeners something. Well, they wanted it or not, you
• 37:41
  know. They've been given.
• 37:42
  Donnie, we want to know from you people is 2 things.
• 37:45
  Right One and right in Yeah. From when I put these episodes
• 37:48
  out next week. It's going right up the schedule
• 37:50
  now. So much fun.
• 37:54
  What's your favorite biscuit ham fam?
• 37:56
  And two, yeah, do you think we're sexist or do you think
• 38:00
  we're right to celebrate tits? Let us know.
• 38:04
  On very local radio wasn't it? Phone in now and tell us your
• 38:08
  favorite biscuits. Phone in 13 minutes to 5.
• 38:10
  Oh, and then tell us, please, please tell us your favorite
• 38:14
  things are about the Polish Box Fabulous YouTube channel, which
• 38:18
  I haven't mentioned for a little while.
• 38:20
  Yeah, if you could just write all those on social media, then
• 38:22
  that would be absolutely delightful.
• 38:23
  That would be a very small list, I can guarantee you're right
• 38:26
  now. Mine would be the length of the
• 38:29
  Magna Carta. All right, fellas, I'll ask you
• 38:32
  this question if there's any chance I will ever see you on
• 38:37
  this podcast again after what I put you through tonight, where
• 38:42
  are we going next? Silence.
• 38:49
  I always ask the question at the end.
• 38:51
  Clearly you guys don't get to the end now, Cameron, you were
• 38:59
  quite excited about enlightenment, weren't you?
• 39:00
  To do this one. Yeah.
• 39:02
  And now, Lee, you chose war machines for us to do, didn't
• 39:05
  you? Yes, I previously.
• 39:07
  Back to you then, Lee, until Oh, do you fancy?
• 39:09
  Oh, disgusting. Now given the overall tone of
• 39:12
  tonight's maybe making something quite fun like.
• 39:16
  Well, funny as you say that because I'm just, you've just
• 39:19
  reminded me because I think I'm going to be back in a future
• 39:21
  episode doing another commentary with Daniel, Daniel Ronsley.
• 39:25
  Oh, what we. Can do on that.
• 39:26
  Yeah, I think, I think they've, they've looked ourselves in for
• 39:28
  that one. And you want fun?
• 39:30
  We've got Daleks in Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks on
• 39:33
  that one. Wonderful.
• 39:35
  This is Halola 2L's and an H now.
• 39:40
  But oh, no, I've remembered where we're going and it was
• 39:42
  your choice. And I think the three of us
• 39:44
  should do it together. We'll have a wonderful time.
• 39:47
  Cameron, I'm assuming you've seen this.
• 39:48
  If you haven't, please. Unlike the war machines.
• 39:51
  Will you watch it before we go and talk about it?
• 39:54
  All right. And that is the five part 1969
• 39:59
  classic The Mind Robber. Oh yes please.
• 40:05
  Have you seen it above? No, not you.
• 40:08
  I know you are yet, Cameron. No.
• 40:12
  Well, would you please? Never seen her.
• 40:14
  I don't like handing out homework on these things, but
• 40:16
  will you be? Fine.
• 40:17
  They're 18 minute episodes. They're very short.
• 40:21
  Or later. Yeah, I'm up for that.
• 40:24
  You're going to. Get to see Wendy?
• 40:26
  Padbury's asked. Like you've never seen it
• 40:28
  before. Is it the same way that Fraser
• 40:31
  Hines has seen? Wendy Padbury's asked Now what?
• 40:33
  I'm going to say is you watch episode 1 and you're no arms.
• 40:38
  Well, fellows, oh man, we're going to land a fiction.
• 40:41
  What the hell is going to happen there between?
• 40:43
  The four Evers, there'll be fun of tones to bring down and we
• 40:46
  will achieve that I'm sure. Thanks guys.
• 40:49
  You are two of the most wonderful people on this planet.
• 40:52
  Thank you so much for coming here tonight and creating this
• 40:56
  insanity. It's been a joy.
• 40:59
  Thank you very much. Thanks for having us.
• 41:01
  Thanks for you. Thanks for having us.
• 41:03
  It's been an absolute pleasure to you as always and.
• 41:06
  I will cut it.