Latest / Black Girl Interrupted Podcast / Mamie Johnson/Debbie Allen

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Mamie Johnson/Debbie Allen · Black Girl Interrupted Podcast

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Black Girl. Y'all already know how y'all already know how that girl. Hey,
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y'all, what's up? What's up? What's up? What's up?
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Y'all know what's your girl Ash with you? On another episode of Black Girl.
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Y'all have to excuse me, y'all. I'm trying to get my little
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self comfortable up in his chair. Okay, there we'll go. All right,
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I'm good, I'm ready. Anyway, Happy Tuesday. No, Happy
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Monday, y'all. My days are backwards. But but mind y'all business,
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don't worry about it. But anyway, Happy Monday. Welcome back to another
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episode of Black Girl Interrupted. You know it's your girl Ash from the five
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OO Baby, bringing y'all another another beautiful topic a Black Girl Interrupted. Let
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me first say I apologize to y'all for Thursday night. I don't know what
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happened. So I put my computer. I don't know. Maybe they said
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I held the button down too long so it was in sleep mode. Unfortunately,
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I couldn't I couldn't get it out of the sleep mode. So I
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had to call Apple and was on the phone with Apple for about an hour
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and a half for them to help me get my damn compute out of sleep
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mode. But that's why I could not do my show Thursday. But I
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say, you know what we're gonna do this Monday. We're doing a show
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tomorrow night, and we got our show on Thursday because we have to close
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our National Women's History Month. But I want to just first start off by
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saying thank y'all so much for all the love and the prayers that you sent
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for my daughter over the past week. Again, for those that don't know,
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my daughter's father passed away. I'm on March the thirteenth, and we
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just had a memorial service for him Saturday. So I just wanted to give
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everyone say thank you to everyone that showed love to my daughter and has supported
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her so along the way Salon Road. But she's gonna be alright, I
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promise you she will. But anyho, happy Monday. It is Mental Monday,
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everybody, So everyone knows that before I do anything, I always do
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a mental health check in. I always do it. And again for those
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that are new to a Black Girl interrupted, I do these mental health check
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ins because if I don't love and support on you, who will. I
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do this not only for me, but I do it for others that again,
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could be standing in the midst of a storm, somebody that just made
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need an extra bit of love, somebody that just needs that little affirmation is
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say, you know what, I'm proud of you. You're doing a good
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job. Keep up the good work. So again, I always do something
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positive, empowering, uplifting to let you know that I love you. You're
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not alone and you're not by yourself and this journey, so y'all know what
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I do. I always start up with something beautiful, something positive, something
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uplifting before I jump into the conversation. So here we're going. Then we're
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going to go into tonight's conversation. Sometimes horrible things happen to good people.
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Life isn't fair and it can be heart wrenching. And if you're having one
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of those dark days, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay to feel
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that darkness when challenges and issues come back to back to back to back,
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and it seems like something is after me, something is attacking me, something
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is attacking my journey. Look for the lesson in it. All. You
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will grow through what you go through. The question is are you willing to
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go through it? When those bad things happen. What are you going to
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do. Are you gonna let this horrible situation dictate the way you feel and
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the way you handle it? Are you gonna fall over, fall down,
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fall apart? Or are you going to face this issue with courage but with
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resolution? You know darkness, so embrace Embrace that darkness, don't look away
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from it, Own it. Step up to the challenge no matter what you
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face, start walking. Take that step every day, no matter what you
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are facing, get up and start walking, and never surrender. And remember
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that even in the most wretched times, when you face darkness yourself, no
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matter how bad things get, remember not to stop, Remember not to pause,
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Remember not to hesitate, Remember to put one foot in front of the
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other, Take that first step and start walking. And we will fight.
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And in fighting we will win. And if not the battle, and if
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not the war, we will win because our spirit, it will never surrender.
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And that is the ultimate victory. To hold your head high and even
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in the face of inescapable defeat, to stand and to fight, that is
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to win. Don't alloy yourself for a switch off. But I know there's
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always an answer, no matter how dark that place. Maybe it's always a
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well, just gotta keep going, hold on to that fundamental quality a faith,
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have faith, and on the other side of your pain is something good,
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all right. So that was for anybody that needed that today, even
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me. You know, don't never give up. And I say this all
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the time every episode. What I tell y'all every episode, don't never give
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up. Be mindful of the company that your key and choose head because when
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it comes to the things that you're trying to do in life, you have
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to pick one side of the coin and you need to truse heads every time.
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And I tell y'all this, and I know I'm gonna sound like a
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broken record, but I want you to keep going no matter how hard it
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gets. Patience. You need to get in prayer and you need to tell
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God I need patience because your turn is coming. And you always have to
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understand it's never on your time, but it's always on God's time. You
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know. I just brag it and I just thank God of how he's really
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truly moved things for me. And if he could do it for me,
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he could absolutely do it for you. You just have to believe in,
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you have to trust, and you just have to know that your time is
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coming. Your time may not be right now. Maybe God doesn't feel like
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you're ready for all of this, and He's gonna give you a little bit
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at a time. But don't give up, don't get discouraged. I know
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it's easier said than done, but I'm telling you God is everything. He
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can move and give you whatever it is that your heart desires. You just
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have to be patient. Hey, sus, Hey, my suss I love
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you all right, So my mental health check in again. Like I say,
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today is Monday, it is mental Monday. So I'm praying everyone had
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a beautiful weekend. I'm praying that everyone's Monday has gone well. I'm praying
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that you have a beautiful rest of the week and whatever's going on, leave
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it today because God is going to give you an opportunity tomorrow to try it
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all over again. Believe that. I promise you, like I wouldn't be
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telling you this if I couldn't attest today, if I couldn't attest to how
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good God has been to me, then I wouldn't be sitting up here telling
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you how great he is. Because He's been wonderful to me. I just
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had to wait my turn, and everything is starting to come into fruition as
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I pray for, and it's gonna happen for you. I believe in you.
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I love you. I walk with you, I stand with you.
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I hold you up when I feel like you're falling down because I feel like
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that's what we're supposed to do. I feel like we're supposed to hold one
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another up. When you see a person fall and pull them up. It's
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okay to tap them on the shoulder and say, hey, come on,
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you got this. It's okay to empower somebody else. It's okay to encourage
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somebody else that doesn't take anything away from you. Some I always love and
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encourage and empower and uplift somebody. I didn't always have that for me.
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So now that I have the opportunity to do this for somebody else, I'm
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gonna pour into you. I'm a love on you. I'm empower you,
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I'm uplift you and encourage you. When I feel like you slip it,
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and when I feel like you don't win too far, I'm come on,
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get up, get up. You can lay that, but you can't stay
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there. So just keep letting me know in the comments how you're feeling again,
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Today's Monday. It's mental Monday, but I want to keep the conversation
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rolland because guess what, we are still celebrating National Women's Let me fix this,
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y'all, hold off, let me fix this, because we are still
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celebrating National Women's History Month. I'm so sorry, y'all. I thought I
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had corrected this. All right, there we go, all right, there,
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we're gonna have to fix it. So, y'all, we are still
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continuing the conversation on National Women's History Month, and the two women that I
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chose and selected for today, I want to start off with the beautiful Debbie
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Allen. A lot of y'all. Hey, babe, I hope you're having
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a good night at work. So I want to start off with a beautiful,
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beautiful, infamous, world renown choreographer, producer, director, man.
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Debbie Allen is everything. This is one lady that is so multifaceted like and
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then she was born and raised right here at Third Wall, Houston, Texas.
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So shout out to Houston for man, and Houston has produced a lot
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of legends that I love. Alicia Rashid, Debbie Allen, you got Beyonce,
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you got Trade of Truth, you got Oh god, it's so many.
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You got Loretta Divine from Houston. Patrick Swayze was from Houston, Texas.
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I mean, there's so many icons that were born and raised right here
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in Houston, Texas. But I wanted to, like I said, I
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selected Debbie Allen because Debbie Allen, I don't feel like she gets recognized enough.
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And I don't like the fact that we wait until a we wait until
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a person passes away to give them their flowers. I want to give them
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their flowers while they could still see them. Debbie Allen is I mean,
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we know her from Fame, we know her from The Cosby Show, we
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know her from a different world, we know her from Gree's Anatomy. I
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mean, we like this lady is phenomenal. Like I need y'all to really
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true give it up. Your brother yours says, hey, be oh,
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I really really really let's jump into this because we really got to give it
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up with Debbie Allen, because baby Debbie Allen is that girl. So for
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those that don't know, here's Debbie Allen. Deborah Ka Allen was born in
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Houston, Texas to African American parents. Vivian Elizabeth ayres A poet and art
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director and Andrew Arthur Allen, an orthodontist. As a child, Debbie,
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her older brother, Andrew called Texts, and her older sister, actress Felicia
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Rashad, lived in Mexico to escape US racism. Their mother decided to live
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there to give the Allan children a brief experience of not having to endure the
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chronic racism and segregation that was typical of Texas during the nineteen fifties. Debbie
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and Felicia are fluent in Spanish. Debbie graduated from Jack Yates Senior High School
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in Houston, Texas, in nineteen teen sixty seven. She graduated cum laude
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from Howard University in nineteen seventy one, with a BFA in Classical Greek literature,
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speech and Theater from Howard University. She used her experiences from attending historically
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black college Howard to inform her production and direction of the TV show A Different
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World nineteen eighty seven. Although her parents divorced, Debbie remained extremely close to
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her father until his death. With Felicia, she has production company DAD,
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which stood for Doctor Allen's Daughters. Her pullets are nominated poet Mother Vivianez,
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the artistic and free spirit that has influenced and encouraged the remarkable creativity that so
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marks Allen as a performer. I don't know what just happened. I don't
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know why we having all these texts. Man, let me tell you something.
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Let me let's hold up, let me try to roll that back.
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Hold on one moment. Deborah k Allen was born in Houston, Texas,
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to African American parents. Vivian Al, We're not gonna go there. I
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don't know what's going on with it. See that's how let me tell you
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something. That's how you know the devil busy. Because see we are having
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a beautiful conversation and we're talking about Debbie Allen again, world renowned producer,
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director, choreographer, philanthropists. Where where I mean, it's just so many
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things we could see. Julia, your brother says, what's up, big
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sis. It's just let me try to roll this bag one more time.
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I don't know why, what's going on with it? See that's why I'll
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be trying to tell y'all. De will be busy. Deborah k Allen was
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born in Houston, Texas, to African American parents. Vivian Elizabeth Ayers,
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a poet and art director, and Andrew Arthur Allen. I don't know why
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it just keeps repeating, but that's not the one. Let's roll this one.
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Give me just one moment. We're gonna do this. We gonna do
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this. Ann is an American actress, dancer, choreographer, singer, songwriter,
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director, producer, and a former member of the President's Committee on the
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Arts and Humanities. She has been nominated twenty times for an Emmy Award,
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two Tony Awards, and has also won a Golden Globe Award and received a
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star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in nineteen ninety one. Allan is best
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known for her work in the musical dr ama television series Fame, where she
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portrayed dance teacher Lydia Grant and served as the series principal choreographer. For this
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role, in nineteen eighty three, she received a Golden Globe Award for Best
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Actress Television Series Musical or Comedy and two Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Choreography,
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and was nominated for four Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama
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Series. Allan later began working as director and producer, most notably producing and
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directing eighty three of one hundred forty four episodes of NBC comedy series A Different
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World. She returned to acting, playing the leading role in the NBC sitcom
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In the House from nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety six, and in twenty
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eleven began playing drive Katherine Avery in the ABC medical drama gras Anatomy. Also
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serving as an executive producer slash director, she has directed more than fifty television
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and film productions. In two thousand and one, Allan opened the Debbie Allan
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Dance Academy in Los Angeles, where she currently teaches young dance. She also
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taught choreography to former Los Angeles Lakers dancer turned singer Paula Abdell. She is
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the younger sister of actress, slash director slash singer Felicia Rishad early life,
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Allan was born in Houston, Texas, the third child to orthodontist Andrew Arthur
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Allen and Pulitzer Prize nominated artist, poet, playwright, scholar, and publisher
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Vivian Allen. She earned a BA degree in Classical Greek literature, speech and
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theater from Howard University and studied acting at HP Studio in New York City.
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She was a member of Kai Delta Mew Health Professional Fraternity. She holds onerous
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cause of doctorates from Howard University and the University of North Carolina School of the
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Arts. Challenges with racism, Debbie Allen auditioned at the Houston Ballet Academy at
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the age of twelve. Even though her audition performance succeeded beyond the qualifications of
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admission, Debbie Allen was denied admission to the school. A year after here
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this devastating news, Allan was given another chance and was admitted by a Russian
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instructor who accidentally saw Debbie Allen perform in a show. Once admission recruiters from
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the Houston Ballet Academy became aware of the situation, they allowed Allan to stay
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in the institution because they were pleased with the talent she had showcased. While
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at the academy, she trained under Suzelle Pool. Her experience at the Houston
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Ballet Academy is not the only time Allan had experienced racism. When she was
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sixteen, she had a successful audition for the North Carolina School of the Arts
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and was given an opportunity to demonstrate dance techniques to other prospective students applying to
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the institution. Unfortunately, Alan was rejected acceptance due to her body not being
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suited for ballet. In many cases, African American dancers were often discouraged from
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dance because they were told their body structure did not fit the preferred stereotype ballet
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dancer's body. And I'm not going to play all of that because it's like
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twenty something minutes long. But when it came to Debbie Allen, Debbie Allen
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actually spoke about racism in her dance career, So I want to play that,
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but I want to jump back into the conversation about Debbie Allen. Here
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we go. I found it still to be very tough and still when I
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started directing Fame, I remember my first date wondering what was I gonna wear.
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Did I need to like man up and wear some macho looking clothes,
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or you know, will they pay attention to me? And you know,
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I ended up wearing my pink overall, some lay socks, my perfume,
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and they loved me because not that I'm a woman or anything. But because
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I came prepared as a director. That's I went to work as a director,
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not as a black woman, not as a woman, but as a
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director. But often you don't get looked at like that. I mean,
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there's so many I went on interviews for so many incredible movies because everyone was
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so impressed by my work, and they just wouldn't hire me. And they
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one time they stopped and said, you know what, you're the best one
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for this, but we're not going to hire you because you're a woman.
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And I went, okay, thanks, but I'm not going to cut off
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the breast, so I'll just have to deal with it. And you know,
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I would think that my talent and ability would fill a quota. I'm
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black and I'm a woman. But I think because I come out of that
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world of theater and come out of the world of social and human injustice,
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I have no fear. I really don't have any fear. And that might
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be off putting to people that I can come in and express myself clearly,
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that I can say this is how I want to do it, and it's
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not looked at as great. Some people go ooh, she's a bit much,
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or maybe we can't handle her or I don't know. Sometimes I think
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it's not worked in my favor. But in the long run, at the
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end of the day, I'm still here, and I'm doing so many great
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shows now and so many things. It's all good. It was blatant and
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blunt. I mean, I remember the day when I won't say his name,
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grab my butt and I was choreographing. He was a director, and
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he grabbed my butt and I was trying to explain to him how I designed
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it for the camera, and he grabbed me on the ass. He says,
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you know, don't you worry your little self about the camera. I
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called him, I called his son of a bitch, and I said,
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you know what, you, first of all, take your hand off of
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my Don't ever touch me like that again. If you don't get the shots
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out of my head, you're gonna be standing here all day trying to figure
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it out, and you will never direct again. Now what, well,
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honey, next thing you knew I was calling he's a deppy call act.
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I was calling action cut. Oh, he learned his lesson. I did
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not wait for anybody's trial or go to court. I straightened his ass out
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right then. But you know that comes to haunt you. Then they may
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say, oh, she's tough, but you became co executive producer. Was
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that around that time that that No, that incident happened early on when I
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started on Fame, and I never did go and cry to the executive.
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I didn't cry to anyone. I took care of it. Gangster baby.
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You y'all called that hall because they'll be out and say, get your hands
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off me. Don't you ever touch me like that? And in that moment
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when I heard her say that, I was like, oh, yeah,
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I knew this lady. He'll was absolutely the truth. Because you look at
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Debbie Allen and she's a petite little thing. I've seen her one time in
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person, and she's a little short, petite, she's so pretty. But
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Debbie Allen is a note. Let me tell yourself, baby, don't let
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that cute face and that pretty smile for you, because you heard it what
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she told, get your ass off for me, you ever grabbed me like
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that? And in that moment, I believe that's what really solidified her position
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in Hollywood is because they knew Debbie Adam wasn't taken no mess. And that's
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another reason why I had to stop and I had to give this lady her
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accolades, because when I tell you, I don't feel like Debbie Allen,
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Debbie Allen gets enough love. I don't feel like she gets enough recognition.
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And for someone that has opened the doors for the who are not just only
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Black women, but white women, Asian women, Latino women have given their
25:07
accolades to Debbie Allen. They thanked her and have looked at her as an
25:14
inspiration for their dance careers. She is choreographed. I mean, if y'all
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go back and you look at Fame when her and Lee Roy were dancing,
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I'm like, this lady here, god man. She opened up a dance
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school in LA She taught Paul Abdoul, who used to be a former Lakers
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girl. You know, Jules says Fame was my show. I think Fame
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was everybody's show. You go back and you look at some of those episodes.
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I mean when Janet Jackson was on there on Fame. I remember with
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Irene Cara. You know, I was looking at an interview with Debbie Allen
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and she broke down talking about Irene Carroll and working with a cast and how
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that changed the trajectory of black women, particularly dancers, and I love that
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about her. I love her no nonsense type of style that she has because
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Debbie Allen is Debbie Allen. It's we're gonna do it like this and no
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not, you can't tell me what to do. That is what solidified her
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spot to me in Hollywood, because you heard her when she said they passed
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her up to be a dancer because she was a woman and she was black,
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And you heard what she said. She said, well, I'm not
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cutting off my breast. In other words, you either take it or leave
26:57
it. And Debbie Allen didn't worry about what the world had to say and
27:03
who was gonna support and what bridges she burned, because Debbie Allen came in
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and she built her own table, and she built this table big enough for
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everybody, no matter the race. And that is why, specifically why I
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selected Debbie Allen as a woman that I wanted to give my accolades to.
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I wanted to just show her woogoo love because I again, I'm gonna repeat
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this again, I don't feel like she gets enough love. I don't feel
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like she gets enough recognition. You know, I just don't feel that way.
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Other people may feel differently, but I just don't feel like she does.
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She changed on you know, she changed the way things were on when
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she was on a Different World. They spoke about aids, they talked about
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team pregnancy, things like that. Those were topics that Debbie Alan helped push
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to, you know, to Bill Cosby and say, hey, I believe
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these are topics we need to address on this show. Domestic violence. We
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saw those episodes and if we could just and I say this all the time,
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the nineties was absolutely a time to be alive. I wish we could
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just go back to those times when we had marvels, when we had respect.
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We don't have that anymore. But Debbie Allen, she commanded, she
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demanded, I'm so far. She demanded her respect, and they gave it
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to her. And again, she didn't care if you liked it or not.
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Period. I'm gonna run this. This is my show. You can't
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take this from me. So I mean, like I said, you just
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I go back and I just look at Debbie Allen and I'm just like this
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woman is a dancer, a singer, a choreographer, a direct director,
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a producer, and a former member of the President's Committee on the Arts of
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Humanity, of Arts and Humanity. This woman is amazing. She's nothing short
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of amazing. And this is what I mean when I say to us,
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as black women, sometimes we have to build our own bridges to get over
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when people take them away from us. Sometimes we have to go where we're
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not invited. Sometimes we have to kick the door in ourselves and build our
29:30
own tables. And that's exactly what Debbie Allen did for black women, black
29:36
men, for dancers, for the community, for TV movies. Debbie Allen
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did that. Debbie Allen did that. Debbie Allen said, just watch this,
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just watch watch what I do. Watch what I do. And she
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did it. And here she is at seventy six years old, still dancing,
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still choreographing things, still directing, still producing. She said, when
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she came in a game, she was hit a state and I respect her
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own that. Baby. Let me tell you some y'all can't tell me Deborah
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Allen from Third Wall, Houston, Texas is not a legend. You can't
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tell me that this woman is not a gym. You cannot tell me that
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this woman is not an icon. Because Debbie Allen changed, She changed it,
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and she's gonna tell you by her no nonsense. Here we go.
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Well, Fame was quite a wonderful undertaking. I was in New York at
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the time, and I did the movie. I did the movie thing,
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and I was playing actually a teacher's assistant, and I was supposed to have
30:56
a big number. I was siring Horra's nemesis, but Alan Parker had a
31:03
ten hour movie before he got to my part, so they cut it.
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So I was left there with this wonderful line describing what Leroy was doing when
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he was dancing. What do you call that? I said, wicked.
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That's when I knew how there's no such thing as a small part. Is
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that one line, That one word got me the series. They said,
31:22
we'd like you to play the teacher, and so I said, okay,
31:26
I will play the teacher, but only if I can do the choreography,
31:32
because that's what interested me. So they said, oh, yeah, you
31:36
can have that. And the choreography was everything. It became the directing,
31:42
it became the producing, it became, you know, so central to the
31:48
life and the success of that show. You never really know, but we
31:59
knew we were doing something that felt awfully good. And it was a lot
32:04
of hard work and we really enjoyed it. I think the moment we had
32:07
a clue of the power of Fame was when we got off the plane in
32:12
London to do our first tour and it was like, oh my god.
32:15
It was like we the Beatles. The people were screaming and the people were
32:20
clamoring. It was like, honey, what who are we in there?
32:24
It just went up from there. When I did Fame, everybody was a
32:28
cowboy. They wearing cowboy boots. It was all good. I mean,
32:32
there was only two women. That was me and the script supervisor. Oh
32:36
there was also Marilyn Matthew's costume designer, but that was it. There were
32:39
no women, uh to speak of. Women are born to go through so
32:45
much. We make great producers because we can take the pain and the criticism.
32:51
And I don't think we had the ego quite cause we used to children
32:55
talking back. We're used to, you know, going through crap. I
32:59
remember being on the set once and I was choreographing thing. There was one
33:04
step away from directing and how I became a director On Famous Most of the
33:07
directors didn't know how to shoot dance, so they would go home and I
33:10
would shoot the numbers for them. But I remember this director one day and
33:15
I was I would write out notes to help the directors to say, Okay,
33:20
this is gonna happen. This is what this shot needs to be,
33:22
A dollar shot close up people. So I was giving him this information.
33:27
He actually patted me on my butt and said, don't you worry your little
33:31
self about what the shots are. I said, listen, you better listen
33:37
to what I'm telling you, or else you're gonna be here till four in
33:39
the morning and this would be the last show you ever directed. Honey.
33:43
By the time I got through sassen him, I was saying action and cut
33:47
that day. He knew not to mess with me. Smacking me on my
33:51
butt. Now, please, baby, let me sell you that is definitely
34:05
a legend. When I tell you, fame the show, the movie very
34:13
pivotal in black history. I think I should do a show about that.
34:15
You know what. That's gonna You know what, I'm gonna do a show
34:17
where we just dedicate you know what. I got an idea that I'm definitely
34:22
gonna Yeah, I got something brewing in the back of my head. We're
34:27
gonna do Debbie Allen, let me say this to you. Thank you for
34:31
all that you have done to change the trajectory and black history. Thank you
34:38
for standing up for not only you, but for other black women that have
34:44
followed in your footsteps. Thank you for putting your foot down and letting them
34:47
know that women can do the same thing that men do. Thank you for
34:54
being that voice. Thank you for opening the door and paving the way again
35:00
for the little Black girls and the little White girls, and the little Hispanic
35:02
girls and the little Asian girls that look at you as an inspiration and how
35:08
you've come and you've changed the dance game for them. Shout out to you
35:13
for being on Dance Moms. Shout out to you for bringing those important topics
35:19
to a different world. Thank you, thank you, thank you, And
35:25
that is a living legend. Debbie Allen, man, oh, I wish
35:30
my little sound thing work. Look, I want to clap, like wait,
35:34
I wait, there we go. I don't know if y'all can hear
35:40
the little clap, but I just have to do a round of applause for
35:45
excuse me, for Debbie Allen, because she is nothing short of amazing.
35:52
Oh up, Brendany Brown says Thank you for being that voice uninterrupted, regardless
35:59
of the stereotype of black women like man, when I tell you I had
36:06
to, there was no way that I could not give Debbie Allen her flowers.
36:13
There was just no way because that woman and if I could see her,
36:17
and if Debbie Alan, if you see this show, I love you,
36:24
I love you, I love you, and thank you for just being
36:28
you. Thank you for everything that you do and continue to do for everybody
36:34
of all races, all ages, all creeds, religions, backgrounds. Thank
36:39
you, miss Debbie Allen, for all that you do. Another hidden figure
36:46
national women's history. Mark here on black Girl and abrupt it a Black Girland
36:52
A rupt it. Y'all. Don't laugh at me. I know I can't
36:55
sing like I'm don't be trying to. I just really be trying to have
36:58
fun. So this next icon that I found that some may may not know,
37:09
but I want to talk about this legend, this icon, who is
37:14
no longer here with us, who again is another hidden figure that I feel
37:20
like deserves her roses, deserves her accolades, because this woman here really truly
37:29
changed the game for black women, and I mean literally changed the game.
37:34
Tonight Our next hidden figure is Mami Johnson. For those that don't know who
37:39
Maamon Johnson is. I'm about to learn, y'all what them all folks say.
37:45
Sit down, let me learn you something. Here's Mamon Johnson. A
37:52
lot of young people don't really wrong on y'all. Hold on, here we
37:57
go. Tell me what it was like for you growing up in a ridgeway
38:04
beautiful. Yeah, you know, when you're a child and you have one,
38:10
y'all, Here we go, Mama Johnson. Y'all forgive me. A
38:17
lot of young people don't realize that there was a woman's basically white woman's it
38:22
was. Yeah, it was what was it called? It was called All
38:28
Americans. Yeah, I got some pictures downstairs now. I was invited to
38:35
one of their reunions last this year, m Texas, and they paid all
38:43
my expenses and cheated me very very very well. And I understand that there
38:50
was, uh the movie A Field of their Own or something, it was
38:58
basically about that women and it was it was. It was there's a scene
39:04
in there that supposedly is about you. Yeah, describe it because I made
39:10
a statement on an interview one time about it about the League of their Own
39:22
and they included this black lady throwing the ball back. But they wouldn't let
39:31
us say anything because it was the same statement that I had made. I
39:38
don't remember the exact words, but it was the statement that I had made
39:43
about them. And the statement was I don't even remember what it was right
39:50
now, but it but it it was pertaining to them playing or something of
39:55
that nature. And she when she did throw the ball back, the words
40:04
were spoken somewhere else, you know, but she didn't. She didn't.
40:09
She didn't say them because I was told that I could have sued them if
40:15
she had spoken the bears that I had said, but they didn't let us
40:21
say anything. They just let us throw the ball. But it was meant
40:24
and and as I recall, the scene was basically the uh, the white
40:30
women in this league were playing a game and a ball came was hit or
40:36
where she was, and she threw it. She threw it back, after
40:40
threw it back, whipped it back, and that was supposed to represent the
40:46
fact that African American women could not be part of this Yes, and that
40:51
was the only reference that we yes. Yeah, Now the league, the
40:57
All American Women's lead based or whatever it was called you had you mentioned that
41:04
you and a friend of yours had tried out, had decided to try out.
41:07
They didn't let us try out. We went there to try out,
41:12
and this was in Alexandra. Yeah. Yeah, and you saw an ad
41:15
in the paper or something for try out. It was advertised on the radio,
41:21
and reading made me aware of it. Read as your friends. Yeah,
41:25
and we said we were gonna go. You know, hey, we
41:30
can do this. And because we were playing hardball at the time too,
41:35
but we were playing with the fellas and we said we were gonna take the
41:42
bus and go over. Now, did you realize it was all white?
41:49
No? I didn't right at that particular time, No, I didn't.
41:52
All we knew was was baseball and that it was professional and this is what
42:00
we knew. But we didn't realize it was all white until we got there.
42:06
And then when we got there, I didn't realize about the segregation.
42:15
See that, that's that's when I really realized that there was segregation because I
42:24
never had to deal with it before. It wasn't anything that I had to
42:29
deal with. So you got off the bus and there was this fields with
42:32
the women old and white. Yeah, we go there and I said to
42:39
me, I said, you think they're gonna let us try out? She
42:44
said, I don't know. I don't know either. So we stood there
42:49
and they looked at us as if we had our gloves and everything. You
42:53
know, you know what I'm coming here for. So there was looked at
42:59
us as if you say, what do you want? You know? So
43:02
I said to realize, I said, well, I don't think we gonna
43:07
make no headway here. We better gone back home. And we left,
43:13
but they wouldn't give us the opportunity to try out. So how did that
43:22
make you feel? Were you angry about it? Were you just sad?
43:24
Were you know? Because I went back playing with the boys. Didn't bother
43:29
me, you know? But you know then I I just it dawned on
43:37
me what was really going on that they think that I'm not as good as
43:43
you are, you know, and you out of your mind. So it
43:51
really didn't bother me. I whatever. So that's the way that went.
43:59
Amy Johnson, baby, when I say y'all, for those that do not
44:04
know who Mami Johnson is, she was an American professional baseball player who was
44:09
one of three women and the first female pitcher to play in the Negro Leagues.
44:15
In that particular interview, Mamie Johnson was talking about the movie A League
44:20
of their Own because they based the movie off of It wasn't solely based on
44:25
her, but they did make references about her in the movie, and so
44:30
they told her, you know, had they had the actresses pretty much,
44:36
if they would have spoke verbatim with the things that Mamie Johnson had said,
44:40
Mami Johnson could have suited. So again, Mami Johnson was the first American
44:46
professional baseball player who was one of the three women, and was also again
44:52
y'all, the first female pitcher to play in the Negro Leagues. Let me
44:57
just pause for a minute, because let me tell you something, every time
45:01
I do a show and I'm honoring a different iconic Black woman, I get
45:08
goosebumps because it just makes me very proud of the things that these black women
45:15
have done and continue to do to make headweight. You know, like I
45:22
said before, you can't have history without black history, and sometimes we have
45:27
to dig deep to pull some of those hidden figures up to the forefront.
45:31
I had heard about Mami Johnson, but I myself didn't know enough about her
45:38
until I sat down and I said, you know, I want to do
45:42
a hidden figure and I want someone that I don't feel like it's enough recognition.
45:47
So when I sat down and started doing this episode and I selected Mami
45:53
Johnson, her story was amazing to me because here we are women weren't allowed
46:02
to at the time. Women didn't have rights, we couldn't vote, we
46:07
couldn't do anything. But for this black woman to become the first female pitcher
46:15
in the Negro leagues is nothing short of amazing. So I really want to
46:20
let's give it up. Let's come on, let's give her a round of
46:22
applause. I don't know if y'all can hear it, but I wanted to
46:28
give a round of applause to Miss Mamie Johnson. But let's keep the conversation
46:30
going with Mami Johnson. So, for those that don't know Mami Johnson,
46:37
she was born in Ridgeway, South Carolina. She was born Mamy Belton,
46:40
I do apologize. She was born Maine Belton on September twenty seventh, nineteen
46:45
thirty five, in Ridgeway, South Carolina. So she's a Southern girl,
46:50
y'all, southern girl with some Southern roots. And so how Mami Johnson at
46:58
the age of seventeen, she wanted to pursue a baseball career. You know,
47:02
she also tried out for the All Girls American I'm sorry, the All
47:07
American Girls Professional Baseball League. And despite her being a skilled player with lots
47:14
of experience, and the Major League Baseball the men being integrated by this time,
47:20
Mami was not allowed to play due to the color of her skin.
47:25
So at seventeen years old, she tried out and they wouldn't let her play
47:31
because of the color of her skin. As it history is repeating itself,
47:40
you know again, y'all again, let me like I stated a couple of
47:45
weeks ago, slavery just ended up what one hundred and fifty something years ago.
47:52
And if Mamie Johnson was born in nineteen thirty five and she tried out
47:57
at the age of seventeen, that gave she was what there was nineteen fifty
48:01
two during the Jim pro era, where blacks weren't allowed to frequent white establishments,
48:14
Blacks could not play in white sports. You know, they didn't feel
48:20
like we were good enough. But Mami said, hold up, it doesn't
48:25
even matter because soon after this rejection, an opportunity a rose for her to
48:35
try out for the Indianapolis Clowns. Her and Connie Morgan were signed by the
48:43
Indianapolis Clowns in nineteen fifty three. We as black women have said, were
48:52
no longer taken no for an answer, Mami Johnson saying no, no,
48:57
this is not y'all can't keep telling me I can't do this, and I
49:01
know this is what I want to do. This is my dream. And
49:06
finally she got her shot, which eventually led her to the Negro leagues.
49:13
This woman here was a right handed pitcher with the deceptively hard fastball. She
49:20
also threw a slider, circle, change up, curveball, screwball, and
49:24
a knuckleball. And Satchel Page for those that don't know who he is,
49:34
she received pointers on pitching on the curveball. Satchel Page actually was a player,
49:42
a well renowned player in the Negro League Major League Baseball and who was
49:50
inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Man, oh, these stories
49:59
just I'm telling I just got chills just thinking about it. And Mami Johnson
50:06
wasn't a big one. She was a little small batique woman. She only
50:07
was five three and only weighed ninety eight pounds, but still with her little
50:15
statue stature, that didn't stop her from doing what it was that she needed
50:21
to do. So here we go, as we keep the conversation going about
50:24
Mamy Johnson and women playing in the league. Do you think that any young
50:34
women can follow in your footsteps in terms of playing baseball in the major leagues?
50:38
Yes, yes, there's some young ladies now didn't play baseball, but
50:49
they're not given the opportunity. See, I was just fortunate to be at
50:55
the right place at the right time and got the opportunity, and there was
51:00
someone there to introduce me to this. Because if mister Dyson don't be there,
51:10
I don't be there. I don't get there. So if the opportunity
51:19
presented themselves, there is some young ladies right now could be playing basketball pro
51:28
basketball. I don't mean in the ladies League. I mean with the fellas.
51:34
If they would let them. Why don't they let them? They're small
51:43
minded. A woman ain't supposed to do nothing no better than him, and
51:47
some men are still like that today. Really, that young man over there
51:55
might be like that. You like that, so how do you change that?
52:06
Or I mean just a young woman just kind of wait and hope that
52:09
someday the gate's gonna open. Maybe she has the poor guard away in like
52:19
I did you know? And years ago there was a young lady playing with
52:24
the Globetrotters. Now I don't know where she went or what happened to her,
52:31
but probably she couldn't get the opportunity to go anyplace else. If no
52:45
one would accept you, then you can't go. So even after all these
52:49
years and after the you're paving the way in so many ways, the doors
52:54
are still not really, no, they're not. No, they're not.
52:58
I was down at con Risk three years ago with the women in the sports
53:09
organization. We were trying to get the K nine something. I think it
53:17
was the K nine money for girls in sports, for the high schools and
53:24
the colleges and so forth. Getting We were trying to get more money for
53:30
the girls because there was no money for the girls. They were buying everything
53:34
for the boys, and the girls don't have anything. And this is the
53:39
thing that's going on. They give it to the fellows and the girls are
53:44
not there, and then you don't have any coaches out here for the young
53:47
ladies. So let may ask y'all, do you agree with what Mama Johnson
53:58
says when it comes to sports and women not being given the opportunity to play
54:06
in the league. Because I liked what she said when she said people are
54:10
small minded and she said, you know, they feel women aren't supposed to
54:17
do things that men do with regards to sports. Let me clarify that.
54:23
Excuse me with regards to sports. But with Mami Johnson, she paved the
54:31
way. She opened the door and presented a window of opportunity for black women
54:38
that wanted to get into sports, whether it's baseball, whether it's basketball,
54:43
whether it's soccer, volleyball, swimming, tennis. You know, we got
54:49
Venus and Serena tennis. But Mami Johnson, I have to give her her
54:55
accolades. I gotta give her recognition because this woman said, you gotta force
55:04
your way in. They're not gonna let you. Basically, she said they're
55:07
not gonna let you involuntary. You gotta push your way in. And that's
55:13
what I say, even in present day, you gotta build your own table
55:17
or make you a spot at the table, go in even if you're not
55:22
invited. Build your own bridge for people to cross over. And that's exactly
55:29
what Ami Johnson did for baseball again, being one of three women and being
55:37
the first female picture in the Negro leagues. If that ain't, man,
55:45
what's the word? Like? My mind literally just went blank. Man.
55:49
If that's nothing short of a phenomenal, phenomenal, I don't know what else
55:53
to call it, because during those times, blacks weren't allowed, we weren't
56:01
allowed to integrate. But Maamon Johnson said, well, just because this person
56:07
told me no, doesn't mean this person over here is not gonna tell me
56:10
yes. So Mamon Johnson said, when the opportunity presented itself, I took
56:17
it. And that's what I say to others out here. If that window
56:22
of opportunity opens, baby, take it. All these legends that we're paying
56:31
homage to have opened the door and paved the way for us in so many
56:36
ways. Some of us are afraid to take the opportunity. Some of us
56:42
are afraid of being rejected. Some of us are afraid of people telling us
56:45
no. But Mami Johnson, Debbie Allen, Diane Carroll, the Order of
56:55
Tents did not take no far an answer. They had a vision. Someone
57:02
believed in these ladies' visions, and it came into fruition. Debbie Allen world
57:10
went known, photography, I'm sorry, choreographer, actress, director, producer,
57:15
singer. All of that paved the way for little black girls to be
57:20
dancers. Mami Johnson paved the way for black women in sports, baseball in
57:28
particular. But she also encouraged and said, sometimes you got to kick.
57:35
You got to you got to kick your wing in. They're not gonna always
57:38
invite you in, but you gotta, you gotta force your win. And
57:44
the reason they're like that, as she said, is because they're small minded.
57:50
They don't feel like women can do what men can do when it comes
57:54
to sports. And if you see now, it is now expanded. We
57:59
have women's football, we have women's track and field, we have women's swim,
58:05
we have four hundred meter day like everything basketball, the WNBA, I'm
58:09
sorry, the WNBA, women's soccer, women's volleyball, gymnastics. But most
58:20
importantly a lot of these male dominated sports women are now playing. And I
58:25
love that. I love the fact that Mamie Johnson didn't take no for an
58:30
answer. I love the fact that Mami Johnson says, what you won't do
58:36
somebody else will If you don't accept me, I'm gonna kick the door in
58:42
and I'm gonna make my way in. I'm gonna build this up. So
58:47
I give accolades and it's Maemy Johnson. And for everything that she's done to
58:52
leave her mark in Black history. Mammy Johnson not only is an icon,
58:59
butt on legend in her own right, a woman that to fight all the
59:06
odds, a woman that even when people said no, somebody believed in her
59:12
and gave her that window of opportunity. So to close out the segment,
59:17
I want to say, Maimi Johnson, thank you for your contributions and everything
59:23
that you've done, not only in the sports world, but in the Black
59:28
community. Thank you for opening those doors for little girls to walk through that
59:32
want to play baseball, excuse me, thank you for opening the door for
59:37
those little girls that want to play basketball, baseball, tennis, soccer.
59:45
Thank you for being the face as well as one of three women and the
59:50
first female pitcher in the Negro leagues. And on that note, Miss Maimi
59:55
Johnson, although you are no longer hearing body, but you are still here
1:00:00
with us in spirit. I wanted to give you your accolades and your flowers
1:00:05
and tell you you are truly a gym. Here on Black Girl interrupt their
1:00:08
podcast. These legends, these legends, these amazing women that I've had the
1:00:17
pleasure to speak about. I love this. I love being able to reach
1:00:22
back into the history and pay homage to these beautiful hidden figures, to the
1:00:29
ones that we don't hear about all the time, the ones we don't give
1:00:34
flowers to until they're gone. But I wanted to stop and take a step
1:00:38
back and pay homage to Debielo and Maemond Johnson again, two iconic figures in
1:00:47
the black that are pivotal, pivotal, pivotal and have been pivotal in the
1:00:54
Black community, especially Black women. And that is the end of the day.
1:01:04
Man, man, man, So let me grow into my final thoughts
1:01:09
and then we're gonna discuss the upcoming episodes or a Black Women interrupted. I
1:01:15
almost did. I would want to say I did that my final clothes,
1:01:20
like my clothing final remarks, I want to say I did that just a
1:01:23
minute ago. Behave. Let me say this, we as Black women,
1:01:32
we have the ability to do and be anything that we want to be as
1:01:38
long as we put our minds to it, and we don't give up,
1:01:40
and we don't get discouraged, and we don't get sidetracked. Of course,
1:01:44
we know life is gonna happen, Things are gonna recur. Everybody's not gonna
1:01:52
want you in their space. But going back and looking at Maimi Johnson and
1:02:00
Debbie Allen, these two no nonsense taking women said, I don't care if
1:02:07
you don't like me, but you are gonna respect me. Debbie Alan sh
1:02:15
Debbie Alan paid her way in the dance industry where she was calling the shots,
1:02:25
she was producing, directing, singing, Maami Johnson, you're kicked out
1:02:35
of one space, and she said, that's okay. My window opportunity will
1:02:38
come back around again, And in nineteen fifty three it did. To be
1:02:46
taught by the great Satchel Page is nothing short of amazing because he is truly
1:02:52
an icon, not only in black history but in the MLB Major League Baseball
1:03:02
setral Page another legend gone too soon. Oh all right, I guess that
1:03:16
was my clothes. That was my final thoughts. So now to discuss the
1:03:22
upcoming episodes for a Black Girl Interrupted. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we
1:03:30
are closing the month out Thursday, but tomorrow night we are talking about Florence
1:03:37
flo Kennedy. I'm so sorry, y'all. Alexa started talking and I don't
1:03:51
want my live to be taken down because she's talking in the background. So
1:03:54
for the upcoming episodes, excuse me as I was saying for a black girl
1:03:59
interrupted. So tomorrow night we're gonna be talking about Florence Kennedy. Florence Kennedy
1:04:05
was not only a lawyer, but she was a rights active. She was
1:04:09
a civil rights activist who has walked along some of the greats such as Gloria
1:04:16
Steinel. She was a civil rights activist, a lecturer, a radical feminist,
1:04:24
and a lawyer. And baby, when I tell you all about this
1:04:26
Florence Kennedy, Now, that woman wasn't nobody to play with. That woman
1:04:31
was all about the rights of women, the better men of women, not
1:04:38
just Black women, but all women. And to be able to have the
1:04:42
privilege to walk alongside Gloria Steinel Steiny Man, what I would have paid just
1:04:53
a because baby, let me take you this Florence who was from Kansas City,
1:05:00
Missouri. Sure, baby, who graduated at the top of her class
1:05:05
Lincoln High School. I'm not gonna tell you too much about it. But
1:05:10
Florence Kennedy, maybe I can't wait to discuss her tomorrow because, Baby,
1:05:15
when I tell you, this woman hell no nonsense and tolerated zero disrespect.
1:05:23
Hm, Baby, what can we say? We're just some phenomenal people.
1:05:29
We have some excellent Black women who have left a mark in history and deserve
1:05:33
to be recognized and given their accolades, even if they're gone. Still give
1:05:40
them their ruleses and their accolades. Because if there weren't for these ladies,
1:05:45
a lot of us wouldn't be sitting where we are today. So I love
1:05:49
that about Debbie Allen Maaemi Johnson because without those two ladies, we would not
1:05:56
be sitting here where we are to day. When it comes to spoil,
1:06:00
when it comes to dance TV choreography producing, Debbie Allen, you had your
1:06:04
sports, we had Maemon Johnson. We're just some great, great, great
1:06:12
freaking people. So again tomorrow night, streaming live at eight thirty pm Central
1:06:17
time, nine thirty Eastern time, We're gonna be talking about Florence Flow Kennedy.
1:06:24
I'm larry y'all people, something about Flow Kennedy. I just got another
1:06:30
chill because like I say, anytime, I just I'm able to have a
1:06:34
voice where I'm able to just recognize these beautiful icons. It's greatness. It
1:06:41
just lets me know that anything I put in my mind to I could do
1:06:45
it. I just have to remember not to ever give up. And we
1:06:49
all know how that goes sometimes. But that's okay. But I do want
1:06:55
to say thank y'all for joining in and tuning into another episode of Black Girl
1:07:00
Interrupted. Black Girl Interrupted streams live on Facebook and YouTube. Excuse me at
1:07:06
a thirty pm Central Time, nine thirty eight times on Tuesdays and Thursdays again,
1:07:12
streaming live on YouTube, streaming live to Facebook. If anyone is interested
1:07:17
in being a guest on Black Girl Interrupted, I have the email down at
1:07:21
the bottom. It is black Girl Interrupted Podcast at gmail dot com. Please
1:07:27
hold type because this email is subject to change. But if you're looking to
1:07:31
be a guest, if there's a topic you won't actually to discuss on Black
1:07:35
Girl Interrupted, don't hesitate to send me an email. We can set up
1:07:40
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1:07:44
we discuss the topic, discuss the conversation and how the times coincide with one
1:07:50
another. So again, if you're looking to be a guest Black Girl Interrupted
1:07:56
Podcast at gmail dot com is the email, please allow me forty eight hours
1:08:00
to respond forty eight hours. Also, don't forget if you do not know
1:08:09
the website is up. It is www dot BGI podcast dot RG. Uh,
1:08:17
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T shirts and then eventually I roll out into other types of gear, hats,
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many great and beautiful and amazing things coming up for a Black Girl Interrupted podcast.
1:09:26
You guys, man, I am so dreamed. But I just want
1:09:29
to say thank you to everyone that tuned in tonight. Thank you for the
1:09:31
continuous love and the support that you guys show me each and every episode.
1:09:36
Again, I appreciate the comments, the prayers, the concerns with regards to
1:09:42
my daughter. Again, I have some beautiful things coming up for Black Girl
1:09:46
Interrupted and as they as the dates start to get closer, I will start
1:09:49
rolling out those announcements. Again. If you don't want to miss out on
1:09:53
the upcoming things for Black Girl Interrupted, don't forget to run to the website
1:09:58
again, It's www dot b gipodcast dot org to stay updated with all the
1:10:05
latest news and all the things and events that are gonna be coming up for
1:10:10
a Black Girl Interrupted. So on that note, I just want to say
1:10:13
I love you guys. Again, I appreciate your tuning in. It is
1:10:16
Monday, well mental Monday. Please take care of yourself. Please utilize that
1:10:23
time off from work. Baby, That's what PTO is for. That means
1:10:26
putting the other, preparing the others, take care of yourself. Self care
1:10:31
is so important. Please do not let what's going on in life, discourage
1:10:35
you or keep you down, and baby, definitely drink your water, stay
1:10:40
in your own lane, and take that PTO. So on that note,
1:10:44
I love you guys. I hope everyone has a great night, and I'll
1:10:46
see you tomorrow night. Don't forget eight thirty pm Central Time, nine thirty
1:10:50
Eastern Time, don't forget to life, share comments, subscribe again. Black
1:10:56
Girl Interrupted is available on all streaming platforms. You can follow me on Instagram,
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you can follow me on Twitter. You can follow me on TikTok under
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1:11:08
see y'all tomorrow night. Have of good night.