Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #0254_ Groundbreaking Evidence From Charlie Kirk_s Head of Security

Transcript

#0254_ Groundbreaking Evidence From Charlie Kirk_s Head of Security · INSPIRE STORY

0:05
Speaker 1: Brian Harpool, welcome to the show. Pleasure, Sean. Thank you
0:08
Speaker 1: for letting me be here. Thank you for coming, man. So,
0:16
Speaker 1: very heavy interview today.
0:18
Speaker 2: And so you were in charge of the security detail
0:22
Speaker 2: in the company when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. exactly two
0:29
Speaker 2: months and one day ago.
0:30
Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
0:31
Speaker 2: And, um, you know, I've been really quiet about this
0:36
Speaker 2: matter because so many people are out there on it
0:42
Speaker 2: and it just, it's a real shame, but it just
0:47
Speaker 2: got to be so much that I just did not
0:49
Speaker 2: trust my own eyes, ears, what I was reading, what
0:52
Speaker 2: I was watching. And, um, I think a lot of
0:55
Speaker 2: people have sensationalize this and um and that is a
1:02
Speaker 2: real fucking shame and it makes it impossible to find
1:06
Speaker 2: the truth it is and it's not a word but
1:11
Speaker 2: um you said sensationalized but it's like advantagealized right just
1:17
Speaker 2: to take advantage of it it it's almost like sickening
1:23
Speaker 2: and it has been and really that's kind of what
1:26
Speaker 2: drove me.
1:26
Speaker 1: To come here.
1:28
Speaker 2: Well, Brian, I know you and your team, um, are
1:34
Speaker 2: taking a lot of flack.
1:35
Speaker 1: And, um... you know, and I just, I commend.
1:40
Speaker 2: You for the courage to come out and talk today
1:44
Speaker 2: on the show. And I just want you to know,
1:46
Speaker 2: I mean, you know I'm not a combative interviewer. I
1:49
Speaker 2: do have some tough questions that will be at the end.
1:52
Speaker 2: The questions that I've seen all throughout the internet, questions
1:57
Speaker 2: that people have, questions that I have. Some of them
2:00
Speaker 2: may seem a little absurd, but I think it's important
2:03
Speaker 2: to just address all the major ones, at least all
2:07
Speaker 2: the ones that are on my radar. And so I just,
2:12
Speaker 2: once again, want to thank you for coming. Nothing's out
2:16
Speaker 2: of bounds except for something that may be covered in
2:18
Speaker 2: the NDA that I did for a specific incident for them.
2:22
Speaker 1: And so if that's true, I would just say that.
2:24
Speaker 1: But literally um what that's the big thing is that
2:29
Speaker 1: it's i'm sitting here but the team is here and
2:34
Speaker 1: and that's the big deal and uh representing now.
2:38
Speaker 2: I want to um and i also just want to
2:41
Speaker 2: say um you know one rest in peace to charlie
2:44
Speaker 2: kirk and god bless his family and um number two
2:50
Speaker 2: i've lost friends and um I'm familiar with those type
2:54
Speaker 2: of scenarios. And I just want to say that I'm
2:57
Speaker 2: really sorry for what you and your guys are going
2:59
Speaker 2: through with losing your friend. Thank you. And also with
3:06
Speaker 2: everything that's coming along with that.
3:08
Speaker 1: So, yes, sir.
3:11
Speaker 2: But everybody starts off with an introduction here. Brian Harpole,
3:16
Speaker 2: a highly decorated law enforcement veteran who served as a
3:19
Speaker 2: police officer in Texas for 14 years. In 2008, you
3:24
Speaker 2: entered the private security world as operations manager for an
3:28
Speaker 2: elite Texas-based security firm where you specialized in executive and
3:31
Speaker 2: personal protection. Now you are a global private security contractor
3:37
Speaker 2: and trainer running your own company, Integrity Security Solutions, across
3:42
Speaker 2: five continents. A graduate of Columbia College, you earned a
3:46
Speaker 2: Master Peace Officer license from the state of Texas. along
3:50
Speaker 2: with graduating from the International Law Enforcement School of Police
3:54
Speaker 2: Supervision in Southern Methodist University's Cape Intelligence Program. Most importantly,
4:02
Speaker 2: you are on the stage with Charlie Kirk as the
4:04
Speaker 2: head of his contracted security detail on September 10th, when
4:08
Speaker 2: he was assassinated. It's been two months since this tragedy,
4:13
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of unanswered questions, and... People
4:20
Speaker 2: are starving for some answers. I know a lot of
4:22
Speaker 2: people are going to be very interested in what you
4:26
Speaker 2: have to say today. But, you know, I just kind
4:29
Speaker 2: of want to give it to you right now and
4:31
Speaker 2: give you the opportunity on why you've decided to come out.
4:38
Speaker 1: You hit it. There's so much out there, and there's
4:43
Speaker 1: so much out there that's not true. And I was talking...
4:49
Speaker 1: to your staff earlier, is I'm older, right? And I
4:53
Speaker 1: have guys on my team that, or our team, that
4:56
Speaker 1: are younger. And if the truth doesn't get out there,
4:59
Speaker 1: it could hurt their, you know, 20 more years of work.
5:03
Speaker 1: And that's not fair. And these are stellar individuals. These
5:08
Speaker 1: guys are stellar. And, you know, we've worked with just
5:14
Speaker 1: about every agency and police department across the nation. in
5:19
Speaker 1: the larger government, you know, FBI, Secret Service. And I got,
5:25
Speaker 1: guys will come up to me and say, where did
5:26
Speaker 1: you get your guys? Where did you get these people?
5:30
Speaker 1: And the only response I've ever been able to make
5:33
Speaker 1: sense is I just tell them, and I prayed them in.
5:37
Speaker 1: And they came in, you know. And our selection process
5:43
Speaker 1: is unique, unparalleled. we'll get into that. Yeah.
5:52
Speaker 2: I like that cross on your jacket. Yeah, I thought
5:56
Speaker 2: it would be good to start this episode with a prayer.
6:01
Speaker 1: Absolutely. You okay with that? It's what we all should do.
6:05
Speaker 1: All right. Yeah. It's going to be super simple here.
6:11
Speaker 2: Jesus, I just want to thank you for having Brian
6:14
Speaker 2: here today.
6:15
Speaker 1: And we have.
6:18
Speaker 2: just a couple of goals today with this interview and
6:22
Speaker 2: that we ask that you be here with us in
6:24
Speaker 2: this interview. And we just want to bring some answers
6:29
Speaker 2: to unanswered questions here today and avenge Brian's team of
6:37
Speaker 2: his act of, uh, these accusations and conspiracies. And we
6:44
Speaker 2: basically just want to clear the air and, um, and
6:49
Speaker 2: get rid of the confusion. And we hope this helps.
6:53
Speaker 2: And we also just want to pray for Charlie and
6:56
Speaker 2: his family. And we hope that this rise in political
7:03
Speaker 2: violence comes to an end real fast.
7:06
Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. Thank you. My pleasure. I believe in that.
7:11
Speaker 1: The power of prayer is unbelievable. Me too. I've received
7:16
Speaker 1: prayers from people from all over the world and text.
7:21
Speaker 1: And I would tell them they're heard and felt. And
7:24
Speaker 1: they are, they are. Well, good, man. Well, we got
7:28
Speaker 1: a couple of things to get through. Let's do it.
7:30
Speaker 2: Man, this seems like, I don't even want to give
7:34
Speaker 2: this to you, but everybody gets one, so I got
7:36
Speaker 2: to do it.
7:37
Speaker 1: What's that? Oh, no.
7:39
Speaker 2: Everybody gets a bag of yellow bears.
7:42
Speaker 1: I was looking forward to it for a couple reasons. One,
7:47
Speaker 1: my fiance loves this type of candy. And so I'll
7:51
Speaker 1: definitely share it with her. And they're known for that.
7:55
Speaker 1: And so I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much.
7:59
Speaker 1: You're welcome. You're welcome.
8:02
Speaker 2: And I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account.
8:06
Speaker 2: They've been with me since the very beginning when I
8:08
Speaker 2: started this in the attic of my house. And it's
8:11
Speaker 2: turned into one hell of a community. And so one
8:13
Speaker 2: thing I do is I just offer them the opportunity
8:16
Speaker 2: to ask every guest a question. And so this is
8:19
Speaker 2: from Amber. What is your favorite memory with Charlie?
8:26
Speaker 1: Man, um, it, it's odd. It was, uh, recently and
8:31
Speaker 1: believe it or not. Um, and, uh, it, it, it
8:35
Speaker 1: kind of made me feel like I was just hanging
8:39
Speaker 1: out with him instead of working. And, um, we were
8:42
Speaker 1: in Japan and, um, We had finished, I mean, it
8:47
Speaker 1: was like a back-breaking tour of South Korea. Went to
8:53
Speaker 1: the DMZ and then did a lot of stuff around there.
8:57
Speaker 1: And then we went to Japan, Tokyo. He did some speeches.
9:02
Speaker 1: And a couple of us had went to a dinner afterwards.
9:06
Speaker 1: And Charlie just loved Japan. And he was like, man, something,
9:13
Speaker 1: we had a bet. And we were playing a game
9:15
Speaker 1: that if we could find somebody in Japan taller than him. Yeah.
9:21
Speaker 1: And so we were all like, you know, we're already
9:23
Speaker 1: like on guard, uh, looking, scanning, but then, then you,
9:27
Speaker 1: you got this secondary thing behind you, like that, you know,
9:30
Speaker 1: are you going to find some guy that's as tall
9:32
Speaker 1: as this guy, which is absolutely hard to do. And, uh,
9:36
Speaker 1: and then afterwards we went to dinner and, um, we were,
9:40
Speaker 1: he was just eating sushi and, and, uh, We were
9:44
Speaker 1: laughing and having a good time, and it was a
9:46
Speaker 1: safe environment, so access was controlled. And it was just
9:52
Speaker 1: these goofy things, like you were sitting around a table
9:55
Speaker 1: in high school with a bunch of guys that you
9:58
Speaker 1: were cutting it up with. and i just remember he
10:01
Speaker 1: was like um he really loved the sushi and he
10:04
Speaker 1: was like brian you're gonna eat that and i was
10:06
Speaker 1: like no he just starts eating it off my plate
10:08
Speaker 1: and and i'm like this is yeah yeah and it's
10:12
Speaker 1: just like man this is It was cool. You know,
10:16
Speaker 1: he had never been to Japan before, and he got
10:19
Speaker 1: to see some of the really cool stuff there. And
10:21
Speaker 1: then he was just on a high about it. And
10:25
Speaker 1: so he was not Charlie Kirk. He was just a guy.
10:28
Speaker 1: And so it was a very cool experience. That's cool, man.
10:32
Speaker 1: It was. That's cool. Yeah.
10:35
Speaker 2: Well, Brian, like I said in the interview, I want
10:37
Speaker 2: to really clear the air with a lot of things,
10:40
Speaker 2: and it's going to be some uncomfortable questions and But,
10:43
Speaker 2: you know, I've thought a lot about how I would
10:46
Speaker 2: do this interview. And I think it is probably most
10:52
Speaker 2: similar to the Blackwater one.
10:54
Speaker 1: That I've done.
10:55
Speaker 2: And so one of the things, you know, I'd like
10:58
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about your background, your company,
11:01
Speaker 2: the training that's involved in your company, and then we'll
11:04
Speaker 2: get into some actions on and stuff. But, you know,
11:06
Speaker 2: I mean, this is just so wild. I mean, we've
11:09
Speaker 2: heard it was.
11:13
Speaker 2: A right-wing nut, a left-wing nut, Israel, a trans person,
11:18
Speaker 2: a trans person's boyfriend. I mean, at the time, there
11:27
Speaker 2: were compelling arguments for every single one of those avenues.
11:32
Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of people that don't
11:35
Speaker 2: believe that this Tyler Robinson kid is the shooter. But
11:41
Speaker 2: I just, you know, and we'll dissect all of this
11:43
Speaker 2: stuff as we go on. And then at the end,
11:45
Speaker 2: I want to ask what questions you have, you know,
11:48
Speaker 2: from somebody that was being there and somebody that had
11:53
Speaker 2: their hands, the first ones to have their hands in
11:55
Speaker 2: the wound. But so let's start with, you know, let's
12:00
Speaker 2: start with a little bit of your background in law
12:02
Speaker 2: enforcement and what qualified you to get into this type
12:04
Speaker 2: of work.
12:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I came from a law enforcement family. And my
12:09
Speaker 1: dad was a cop for 47 years, and he was
12:13
Speaker 1: a worker. He is still a worker, you know, and
12:18
Speaker 1: he was kind of like a role model for that.
12:20
Speaker 1: And so I was kind of hell-bent when I was
12:23
Speaker 1: in my early 20s that that's not what I was
12:24
Speaker 1: going to do, and then just kind of got gleaned
12:28
Speaker 1: into that, recruited into that, and did 14 years at that,
12:34
Speaker 1: and kind of my area of specialty was... I had
12:38
Speaker 1: the ability to go out and find bad guys. And
12:42
Speaker 1: that was kind of what I did, whether it just,
12:46
Speaker 1: you know, seeing the physiological movements of people in crowds
12:50
Speaker 1: or even in cars and the way they walk. And
12:54
Speaker 1: so you notice it, you recognize it, and how you
12:57
Speaker 1: can look at the way they act when they see
13:01
Speaker 1: you or they're trying not for you to see them.
13:03
Speaker 1: And so you can couple that and use that. to
13:06
Speaker 1: make contact conversation with people and you find a lot
13:10
Speaker 1: of bad guys. And so I kind of specialized in
13:14
Speaker 1: that and then also did emergency medicine. And so I
13:20
Speaker 1: had some really great mentors. Like I said, my dad,
13:23
Speaker 1: a guy named Jerry Venom, Bill Wayburn, Keith Lane, just
13:29
Speaker 1: phenomenal mentors in law enforcement that just, kind of took
13:36
Speaker 1: me under their wing and or slapped me when I
13:38
Speaker 1: needed it. And we all need it sometimes. Have you
13:44
Speaker 1: ever exchanged gunfire? I've been shot at and then shot
13:48
Speaker 1: guys a lot of the times with non-lethal shotgun rounds.
13:53
Speaker 2: You have, so you know what it's like to be
13:55
Speaker 2: shot at.
13:56
Speaker 1: Sure, sure. You feel it. I was close enough one time,
14:05
Speaker 1: I remember a guy shot at me with a shotgun.
14:09
Speaker 1: And you don't, I remember, this kind of sounds weird,
14:15
Speaker 1: but you see, I remember seeing his hair puff up
14:19
Speaker 1: because the shotgun was so short. Wow. And so I
14:24
Speaker 1: remember seeing the wadding come over my head. No kidding. Yeah,
14:32
Speaker 1: and so I was like, ah. That means he missed,
14:34
Speaker 1: you know, because of the waddings after the bullets. Man,
14:39
Speaker 1: I got shot at with a shotgun one time in Yemen.
14:44
Speaker 1: And I thought a fucking kid was holding a sparkler
14:48
Speaker 1: towards me. Turns out it was a shotgun. You feel it.
14:52
Speaker 2: Luckily, I was in an armored vehicle.
14:55
Speaker 1: A little over 40-something feet away. And so, you know,
14:58
Speaker 1: you feel it. You feel the blast, right? Yeah. And so,
15:01
Speaker 1: grace of God, he missed. Yeah. But that career, you know,
15:07
Speaker 1: I kind of, like I said, had some really good
15:09
Speaker 1: guidance and starting with my dad all the way up
15:13
Speaker 1: to these other mentors. And there was an expectation of
15:18
Speaker 1: work back then where you went out and produced, you know,
15:22
Speaker 1: and integratized work and you went out and found bad guys.
15:26
Speaker 1: And then when you did that, you kind of got
15:28
Speaker 1: a skill, developed a skill. We called it, you know,
15:31
Speaker 1: you started sharpening your own swords. And then that kind
15:35
Speaker 1: of helped me transition over into this field where it's
15:40
Speaker 1: about prevention and seeing it before it happens, right? And
15:45
Speaker 1: so that was able to really help me in this
15:47
Speaker 1: field go out and work and even in austere places.
15:52
Speaker 1: And I've done some work on the private security side
15:57
Speaker 1: that makes law enforcement the most dangerous stuff I did
16:01
Speaker 1: in law enforcement pale in comparison. I mean, I wore
16:06
Speaker 1: cameras inside of cartel houses in Juarez. Wow. Yeah, and
16:14
Speaker 1: we were looking where kids were being trafficked, and we
16:18
Speaker 1: act like we went in to shop for children, and
16:22
Speaker 1: we were capturing that footage. Shit. And we got made inside,
16:27
Speaker 1: and then... That was as a civilian? Yeah. Yeah.
16:34
Speaker 2: Wow.
16:34
Speaker 1: And then I did the same deal. Can I hear
16:38
Speaker 1: more about that? Sure, sure.
16:42
Speaker 2: You were on a civilian contract to go into cartel homes?
16:46
Speaker 1: Well, it was an NGO based out of Dallas that
16:50
Speaker 1: specializes in helping people that are trafficked. And we were
16:55
Speaker 1: in El Paso working during the surge of people coming
16:58
Speaker 1: over to document that. And I was providing security for
17:04
Speaker 1: the people that were reporting it. And then I don't
17:08
Speaker 1: know how they came on the intel, but inside of
17:12
Speaker 1: Mexico and Juarez, there was a hotel that they found
17:18
Speaker 1: out that where the kids get warehoused. And so they
17:21
Speaker 1: were like, this would be great footage. And I was like,
17:24
Speaker 1: this is horrible, you know? And so we ended up
17:30
Speaker 1: going over and posed as shoppers basically. And the guy
17:34
Speaker 1: gave us a tour and we went into this room
17:36
Speaker 1: that was about 50 feet long, but only probably 10
17:42
Speaker 1: feet wide. And you can tell like that it was
17:45
Speaker 1: just bed, bed, bed, bed, bed. And these guys were,
17:50
Speaker 1: I guess that's where you go in and shop. I
17:51
Speaker 1: don't know, but nobody was in there. There weren't any
17:53
Speaker 1: children in there at the time. And then we went
17:56
Speaker 1: back downstairs and we're in the lobby and kind of
17:59
Speaker 1: talking to the guy behind the desk. And you can
18:01
Speaker 1: tell he's like the, I guess the front for it.
18:05
Speaker 1: And I saw a guy look through the window from
18:08
Speaker 1: outside and with his head, he counted us like that.
18:14
Speaker 1: And then he picked up the phone and he said
18:17
Speaker 1: that into the phone and I told him, hey man,
18:19
Speaker 1: we just got made. And so we ended up going
18:25
Speaker 1: out of Morris at a secondary exfil location. And we
18:29
Speaker 1: ended up having to go out in New Mexico instead
18:31
Speaker 1: of Texas. And so just got some great footage. But
18:37
Speaker 1: then we did other ones where I went to Piedras
18:40
Speaker 1: Negras and wore a camera and showed how people would
18:47
Speaker 1: come back across and I won't say be harassed, but
18:49
Speaker 1: be screened. You have to pay a fee to leave
18:52
Speaker 1: Mexico and then you get. check when you come to
18:55
Speaker 1: the border, the middle of it, and then you get interdicted.
18:59
Speaker 1: Why were you there? What did you do? What did
19:01
Speaker 1: you eat? And then, so I'm getting interviewed, but at
19:05
Speaker 1: the same time, the camera crew was filming literally hundreds
19:09
Speaker 1: of people just walking across unabated. And so you got
19:12
Speaker 1: to see both of those at the same time. Wow. Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 1: And things like that. Really good missions in South Africa,
19:20
Speaker 1: doing things. Same deal. And so there's good work to
19:27
Speaker 1: be done. So you've got a lot of experience. I mean, experiences,
19:33
Speaker 1: I have gotten experience through experiences. And so it's really
19:39
Speaker 1: a gift, a luxury. And I'm happy to have it.
19:44
Speaker 1: How long have you had your company? We started Integrity
19:47
Speaker 1: three years ago. And we actually worked for another company
19:52
Speaker 1: prior to that with Charlie. And there was, in 2022
20:02
Speaker 1: is when we started it and started doing that. We
20:04
Speaker 1: worked for him for the other company prior to that.
20:07
Speaker 1: And there's some conjecture out there on the- For Charlie? Yes,
20:10
Speaker 1: for Charlie and other accounts.
20:11
Speaker 2: How long have you been working for Charlie?
20:15
Speaker 1: Since, I believe it's 18. Since 18? 18, yeah. So seven,
20:21
Speaker 1: it's been seven years. Seven years, almost eight years, yeah. Wow. Yeah, so.
20:28
Speaker 2: So when you started the company, was it, did you
20:30
Speaker 2: take the, is it the original detail that started in 2018?
20:34
Speaker 1: Pretty much the same guys. You guys have been together
20:38
Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah, we've added, obviously, and lost
20:43
Speaker 1: a few. You know, not different company. We lost that
20:48
Speaker 1: company lead or that company for reasons that we couldn't
20:52
Speaker 1: stomach that were going on. But that's why we started it,
20:58
Speaker 1: this company, and that's why we named it Integrity. You know,
21:03
Speaker 1: we named things, and it's a we company. Tell me
21:07
Speaker 1: about the vetting process to get into your company. What
21:11
Speaker 1: does it take to become a security contractor for Integrity?
21:15
Speaker 1: What kind of people are you looking for? Yeah, it's
21:17
Speaker 1: a weird, for the industry, it's kind of weird. We
21:21
Speaker 1: have a group of guys that are either from the original,
21:25
Speaker 1: we call them the OG guys, and then we have
21:29
Speaker 1: the add-ons that have come in. And so a guy
21:33
Speaker 1: that wants to come to work, For us he has
21:37
Speaker 1: to get sponsored in by one of those people that
21:39
Speaker 1: are already here and so this you know, I'd like
21:43
Speaker 1: to come to work for you and So somebody vouches
21:47
Speaker 1: for him and then so then he comes to our
21:50
Speaker 1: training facility and We train if you're in town not
21:54
Speaker 1: working a detail. We train every Wednesday and So it's
21:59
Speaker 1: you know defensive tactics emergency medicine techniques, you know, PSB techniques, firearms.
22:07
Speaker 1: And so that's every Wednesday. And so they come out
22:11
Speaker 1: and they train with us for an undescript amount of time.
22:15
Speaker 1: Some guys it's a month and a half, two months.
22:17
Speaker 1: Some guys it's six, seven months. You know, there's no timeline.
22:22
Speaker 1: And at the end of that time, the team gets
22:27
Speaker 1: together and they give them the thumbs up or thumbs down.
22:31
Speaker 1: And then if they get the thumbs up, Then they
22:33
Speaker 1: start the vetting process of, you know, what did you do?
22:39
Speaker 1: Are you a good dad? Are you a good person?
22:43
Speaker 1: Were you a good previous employee? You start just a
22:48
Speaker 1: normal vetting process after that. So you go through all
22:52
Speaker 1: of the skills. It's not skills. We have guys that
22:57
Speaker 1: come to us that the skills are, or not what
23:00
Speaker 1: they need to be. But we as a team can
23:05
Speaker 1: collectively teach that. But what we can't teach is if
23:09
Speaker 1: you're not a jackass. Can you work well with a team?
23:14
Speaker 1: Can you think of people besides yourself? And sometimes that
23:18
Speaker 1: can't be taught. Sometimes it can. And so that's important.
23:23
Speaker 1: Those physical skills, the hard skills and the soft skills
23:27
Speaker 1: can be taught. We have quite a collection of guys
23:31
Speaker 1: that do that.
23:33
Speaker 2: Man, you know, we have some statements from your guys here,
23:36
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you want me to read
23:39
Speaker 2: any names, but I will.
23:40
Speaker 1: They said they're fine with the song as just first names.
23:44
Speaker 2: I mean, here's just, you know, Blake, Combat Proven Marine.
23:50
Speaker 2: Appears more talent than everyone else. I mean, you have SEALs.
23:59
Speaker 2: world-renowned jiu-jitsu people, 22 years on SWAT, professional athletes with
24:04
Speaker 2: tactical careers. I mean, 22 years as a Navy SEAL,
24:11
Speaker 2: Marine and 30-year cop and SWAT commander. I mean, these
24:16
Speaker 2: guys know what the fuck they're doing and they're no
24:18
Speaker 2: stranger to.
24:22
Speaker 1: Dangerous work. No, and they come in with that, but
24:27
Speaker 1: we have a saying that says, um, because they come
24:30
Speaker 1: in with that kind of pedigree and they're vouched in
24:33
Speaker 1: based on that a lot of the time. But we
24:36
Speaker 1: have a saying that your past achievements or affiliation are
24:40
Speaker 1: not equal to your current capability. So that's why they
24:43
Speaker 1: still have to come show that they can do that
24:48
Speaker 1: stuff still and still have the hard set, but still
24:51
Speaker 1: have the soft set. Make sure your skills match your ego. Right, right.
24:55
Speaker 1: And your resume. Yeah. And so it's a... That also
25:00
Speaker 1: builds cohesiveness. And I've never, in my years as a cop,
25:09
Speaker 1: or until we started this group, even at the prior company,
25:13
Speaker 1: we didn't have it. It was a weird relationship between
25:17
Speaker 1: the team and the guy who owned it. But this one,
25:22
Speaker 1: we got grown-ass men when we finished training telling each
25:26
Speaker 1: other they love them, and then we leave.
25:29
Speaker 2: Nice. What does the ongoing training look like at Integrity?
25:36
Speaker 1: It's a mandatory. I mean, the guys are required to
25:43
Speaker 1: do our written policy 40 hours a year. And 20
25:48
Speaker 1: of it has to be internally and 20 of it
25:50
Speaker 1: can be externally. Most of the guys, I did the
25:56
Speaker 1: averages and I sent in our training logs and we
25:58
Speaker 1: keep them electronically so that they can see that their
26:03
Speaker 1: time date's stamped with what we did and why we
26:05
Speaker 1: did it. And most guys get around 200. Some of
26:08
Speaker 1: the guys are getting 400 hours of training a year.
26:11
Speaker 2: Wow.
26:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's advanced level. It's not sitting around like
26:15
Speaker 1: in cop days where you're watching videos of how to
26:19
Speaker 1: get along better with people that don't think like you.
26:22
Speaker 1: You know, it's real things that are applicable to what
26:26
Speaker 1: we're out there doing right now today and how we
26:29
Speaker 1: can raise the next level. And then it's ongoing. There's
26:32
Speaker 1: an expectation for it. And we've lost guys because they
26:35
Speaker 1: didn't keep the hours. And I'd tell them, and they
26:39
Speaker 1: were good humans. I mean, good people that just timelines
26:43
Speaker 1: couldn't line up or, you know, things going on at home.
26:47
Speaker 1: And so they had to get, you know, laid off
26:49
Speaker 1: or furloughed and told, hey, when you come back and
26:53
Speaker 1: start all over, but the process started all over. So
26:59
Speaker 1: there's an expectation.
27:00
Speaker 2: I would like to, I mean, we had a little
27:02
Speaker 2: conversation before we jumped in on the interview and when
27:05
Speaker 2: you told me, you know, the process that you had developed,
27:09
Speaker 2: you know, to be vouched for, to work for integrity,
27:14
Speaker 2: the actual training pipeline, the, you know, All the guys
27:19
Speaker 2: on the detail have to give a thumbs up or
27:21
Speaker 2: a thumbs down. I mean, I think that's a phenomenal
27:25
Speaker 2: way to hire for a security firm. On top of that,
27:28
Speaker 2: I mean, the ongoing training, I mean, you had brought
27:30
Speaker 2: up medical when we were chatting upstairs. You had brought up, obviously,
27:34
Speaker 2: firearms training. I mean, you even brought up etiquette classes
27:39
Speaker 2: that you would bring people on to the range and
27:42
Speaker 2: ask them what fork they're going to use.
27:44
Speaker 1: Yes.
27:45
Speaker 2: I mean, so you are very, very detail-oriented.
27:49
Speaker 1: You have to be. You're in kind of a zero fail,
27:55
Speaker 1: and we see that now of work here. I tell
27:59
Speaker 1: guys that come in from the law enforcement side, it's like, man,
28:02
Speaker 1: back when we were cops, if somebody got something happened
28:05
Speaker 1: to them and they're in your beach or 10 cars
28:08
Speaker 1: got stolen or 50 mailboxes got bashed, you went out
28:15
Speaker 1: and you're just like, sorry. and took the report, and
28:18
Speaker 1: you went back to work, and you got paid the same.
28:20
Speaker 1: In this industry, something happens by no fault of your own, even,
28:25
Speaker 1: and like that, you're done with that client. And there
28:28
Speaker 1: are people in the woodwork that'll come right back in
28:31
Speaker 1: and do it for cheaper, probably. And so it has
28:36
Speaker 1: to be that mentality that we have to be that
28:38
Speaker 1: much better every single time you step on a job.
28:41
Speaker 1: People say that 110% rule, and I'm like, It is.
28:47
Speaker 1: It's 110%, but it's 110% of something that has to
28:51
Speaker 1: be the benefit, the big picture, not yourself. Everything, the
28:56
Speaker 1: whole job, the detail. And you get guys together and
28:59
Speaker 1: you put them through that mess to get on the
29:01
Speaker 1: team and you've developed something that can't be replicated. I mean,
29:06
Speaker 1: we vacation together. We Christmas party together. It's a brotherhood.
29:11
Speaker 1: It is. It is. And once you... There's another step
29:15
Speaker 1: to it is... It's so close that once you've made
29:21
Speaker 1: it through those steps and you're on the team, and
29:23
Speaker 1: then you still have to put that kind of effort out.
29:27
Speaker 1: And then once you've put that effort out and shown,
29:32
Speaker 1: even on jobs, that you truly can think about everybody,
29:38
Speaker 1: the client, the team. the big picture, what we're believing in.
29:43
Speaker 1: Then the team gets together, and then they authorize them
29:47
Speaker 1: to get the tattoo. And then they get to get
29:50
Speaker 1: a tattoo, and, you know, brothers in Christ for eternity. Wow.
29:56
Speaker 1: And so... You guys are tight. Yeah. It's... it's... It's
30:03
Speaker 1: what it should be. You guys are tight.
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33:07
Speaker 1: When you're.
33:09
Speaker 2: Screening your employees or the guys, I have to ask
33:13
Speaker 2: this question.
33:15
Speaker 1: I have to ask it. Of course.
33:17
Speaker 2: Do any of your guys have any ties to any
33:21
Speaker 2: foreign intelligence agencies, more specifically, Mossad?
33:27
Speaker 1: No. And I've seen that and heard that. And, you know,
33:32
Speaker 1: I've been in 39 countries in this world, and I've
33:35
Speaker 1: never been to Israel. I'm a firm Christian. I ask
33:42
Speaker 1: our guys, are you believers? We have no ties to
33:49
Speaker 1: Israel or Mossad or any other one. We're Americans, period.
33:54
Speaker 1: We believe in what we're afforded to do here. We
33:58
Speaker 1: believe in our system. And to say that we're Mossad
34:03
Speaker 1: or attached to any type of foreign entity, it's crap
34:09
Speaker 1: on its best day. Do you have anybody on your
34:14
Speaker 1: team that you think could be tied to an extreme
34:19
Speaker 1: political party who is planning assassinations?
34:25
Speaker 2: No. One, we're in each other's business. Where they have
34:33
Speaker 2: the time for it, I wouldn't know. Yeah, you had
34:36
Speaker 2: mentioned some of these guys are on the road 250
34:38
Speaker 2: days a year with Charlie.
34:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, just working. And, and it's not just that it's,
34:46
Speaker 1: I mean, um, a lot, we, we do a team
34:49
Speaker 1: trip every year down to an, uh, an undisclosed location. And, um, uh,
34:55
Speaker 1: some of the guys are there now. Um, uh, some
34:57
Speaker 1: of the guys left yesterday after that job ended, I'll
35:00
Speaker 1: be going down the night before, I mean, uh, tomorrow. Um,
35:04
Speaker 1: so we, we know what each other does. We, we
35:08
Speaker 1: know their kids' names and, and spouses and it's like,
35:14
Speaker 1: If they're doing it and they're not, they wouldn't have
35:17
Speaker 1: time for us not to notice. And then the heart
35:23
Speaker 1: of these men, they're going to pour this out. It's
35:27
Speaker 1: like we all, you took an oath. I've taken an oath.
35:31
Speaker 1: Most of my guys have taken an oath. And it's
35:34
Speaker 1: different in the security industry. You're not taking an oath
35:36
Speaker 1: for your clients, but you are taking an oath to
35:38
Speaker 1: each other. And so they wouldn't do that. to the client,
35:44
Speaker 1: but they really wouldn't do it to me or to
35:47
Speaker 1: their coworker. And so that's one of those things that's like, no,
35:51
Speaker 1: if you know us, those allegations become even more idiotic. Yeah.
35:58
Speaker 2: And you say this with 100% certainty?
36:03
Speaker 1: To my death. Roger that. To my death.
36:07
Speaker 2: Let's move into the threat assessment and the pre-planning for
36:12
Speaker 2: the event.
36:13
Speaker 1: Absolutely. How many days prior were you guys there? We generally,
36:17
Speaker 1: the permitting process and all that goes on behind the scenes.
36:22
Speaker 1: And then there's questionnaires that are filled out that we
36:25
Speaker 1: used to, there was a lot of busy work. And
36:27
Speaker 1: then so, you know, kind of like in the military,
36:29
Speaker 1: what you did, we create forms that, hey, let's get
36:32
Speaker 1: this information up front. And so that we have a
36:36
Speaker 1: duplication process so that we can confirm it. And so
36:39
Speaker 1: we started our first, before that one, the 24th of
36:45
Speaker 1: the month prior. And so, and that was with the
36:49
Speaker 1: hard conversations, meetings. You started that on the 24th? Right.
36:56
Speaker 1: And we do two weeks at least. No, it started
36:59
Speaker 1: before that with the intelligence gathering and all that. But
37:04
Speaker 1: the hard conversations, the sharing of information, the conference calls,
37:10
Speaker 1: the data sheets, And we put that in a timeline
37:15
Speaker 1: on an app so that this all goes up and
37:19
Speaker 1: every guy that's on that job can see all the
37:23
Speaker 1: intel that comes in. It's a decentralized command model for
37:25
Speaker 1: the company. And so anybody can make command decisions for
37:30
Speaker 1: the betterment of the client or the team. And so
37:33
Speaker 1: everything goes on that app. And so when I get it,
37:36
Speaker 1: they get it. whoever's gathering that intel, it gets it.
37:39
Speaker 1: There's no hold, there's no power hold on it. And
37:42
Speaker 1: so that first information came in on the 24th and
37:46
Speaker 1: then the information share starts where we're walking through, you know,
37:53
Speaker 1: everything that you need for a detail. The site plan,
37:57
Speaker 1: point of contacts, emergency fallback locations, hard rooms, arrival points, hospital,
38:07
Speaker 1: you name it, fire department, jurisdictional authorities, all that comes
38:11
Speaker 1: in on an Intel sheet and gathered. And then it's
38:14
Speaker 1: in that quick reference app. So any guy can get
38:16
Speaker 1: it at any time they want to. And then we
38:19
Speaker 1: can share it at any time. We can add people
38:21
Speaker 1: into it, take people out of it. And so we
38:25
Speaker 1: found also that we utilize that format and it shows
38:29
Speaker 1: that we do, it can timestamp our due diligence also.
38:35
Speaker 1: And so that's why we use that as opposed to
38:37
Speaker 1: just sharing it back and forth or doing it on
38:40
Speaker 1: a wibbit pad. So we have that in real time.
38:44
Speaker 1: And so that starts then.
38:46
Speaker 2: What kind of, I mean, at the beginning when I
38:53
Speaker 2: was kind of looking into this before I realized I'm
38:56
Speaker 2: never going to find any answers, we've seen a lot of.
39:02
Speaker 1: Charlie's friends.
39:05
Speaker 2: People that are in the media come out and say,
39:09
Speaker 2: Charlie had very specific concerns about Israel and that his
39:17
Speaker 2: opinions were changing about Israel and that he had expressed
39:22
Speaker 2: concerns about this to various media personalities. You know, my
39:28
Speaker 2: question is, is the man that owns the company that's
39:33
Speaker 2: in charge of his security detail and you are the
39:36
Speaker 2: head guy on his security detail, were there any concerns
39:42
Speaker 2: about that or any other organization, political party, foreign nation...
39:48
Speaker 2: Did he express any of those concerns to you?
39:51
Speaker 1: No. And Dan works for Turning Point as their security guy.
39:57
Speaker 1: And so Dan feeds down that to us, to our
40:01
Speaker 1: contracted security, which is us for integrity. And so nothing
40:04
Speaker 1: had ever come now from Dan, from Charlie down to
40:09
Speaker 1: us about that. Now, at the same time, you got
40:13
Speaker 1: to look at the world we live in. And that's
40:15
Speaker 1: a reality. It's a reality that an organization, whether it
40:22
Speaker 1: be a hate group of any type, could want to
40:24
Speaker 1: hurt anybody, not necessarily Israel. But we look at mathematics, too,
40:30
Speaker 1: and there's probabilities and possibilities, right? And I look at
40:34
Speaker 1: the probabilities. The possibilities are infinite. And the probabilities are
40:40
Speaker 1: that it's not. The probabilities are the people that want
40:43
Speaker 1: to hurt him or the people that are there screaming
40:45
Speaker 1: things at him in front of us half the time.
40:48
Speaker 1: And so we have to look at those probabilities and
40:51
Speaker 1: the mathematics. We look at the possibilities too. And those
40:54
Speaker 1: possibilities I'm sure are out there, but we've never got
40:57
Speaker 1: any detail or intel to show that we should look
41:02
Speaker 1: into this deeper.
41:03
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just, it is very interesting that if
41:06
Speaker 2: he was that concerned about foreign nations or opposite political affiliations,
41:14
Speaker 2: I mean, if he was that concerned, I don't know
41:17
Speaker 2: why that wouldn't have been disseminated down to the security detail.
41:20
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a security detail. And if I
41:23
Speaker 2: feel that there is a threat, even if it's just
41:26
Speaker 2: a feeling, that's the first people that I tell is
41:29
Speaker 2: my security detail.
41:30
Speaker 1: We looked at all that, and you can go back
41:35
Speaker 1: and look at his speeches. And Charlie was an absolute
41:39
Speaker 1: supporter of Israel. And then he would say, and they
41:43
Speaker 1: would ask him why. And so, you know, we're in
41:47
Speaker 1: those things and we're listening, but at the same time
41:49
Speaker 1: you're looking, but you hear these things and you hear
41:51
Speaker 1: them over. And I can remember him saying, you know,
41:53
Speaker 1: he was a supporter of it because one, a nation
41:56
Speaker 1: should be able to defend itself after they've been attacked. Two,
42:00
Speaker 1: Charlie was a devout Christian to the point that he
42:03
Speaker 1: gave his life for it. And he referenced this and
42:07
Speaker 1: I heard him reference it where those places that are
42:12
Speaker 1: our holy land or being taken away from us and
42:16
Speaker 1: not being able to visit and that you can't go there.
42:19
Speaker 1: And so that protection of Israel was important to him
42:22
Speaker 1: and those holy sites. And he'd been there. And so
42:26
Speaker 1: he had talked about being there and how it changed
42:28
Speaker 1: his life. And so that's why those sites in that
42:31
Speaker 1: area was important for him to protect. Now, how you
42:36
Speaker 1: can derive Israeli hit men out of that, I have
42:40
Speaker 1: no idea. Um, uh, but, um, We have never received
42:45
Speaker 1: anything from the FBI, which they were pretty good about
42:49
Speaker 1: sharing information, Secret Service, because of the Charlie Circle. And
42:56
Speaker 1: we had never received anything from anybody that was credible
43:00
Speaker 1: that was saying that groups of that entity was a
43:06
Speaker 1: threat to him. We received other threats all the time.
43:12
Speaker 1: All the time. You know, they come in all the time.
43:16
Speaker 1: And so you got to look at them. Are they
43:17
Speaker 1: First Amendment? Are they actual threats? And so, you know,
43:22
Speaker 1: First Amendment threats would come in and these people have disgusting,
43:26
Speaker 1: they're like, Charlie, I can't wait till you come to,
43:29
Speaker 1: you know, it was somewhere on the West Coast. I
43:32
Speaker 1: can't remember what town it was, but I can't wait
43:34
Speaker 1: till you come to this town so that I hope
43:36
Speaker 1: somebody shoots you in the head and we can pee
43:38
Speaker 1: in the hole. What? Yeah, yeah. It's like, where do you,
43:43
Speaker 1: Where do you get this kind of stuff? And so
43:46
Speaker 1: where do you, what are you benefiting from it, right?
43:50
Speaker 1: And so am I gonna spend an exorbitant amount of
43:54
Speaker 1: time with a possibility that I don't have any tangible
43:58
Speaker 1: intel on and haven't received any, or am I gonna
44:02
Speaker 1: put my eggs into this basket that is a probability
44:06
Speaker 1: right here? And so it's probable. These people are doing
44:11
Speaker 1: it with bomb threats. Routinely physical, you know threats to
44:16
Speaker 1: person and and so you got to look at all
44:19
Speaker 1: these things and work those angles and you know Dan
44:22
Speaker 1: did that meticulously and he shared that information with us
44:25
Speaker 1: and so If that came in we got it and
44:29
Speaker 1: we never got anything that no massage or Nothing that
44:34
Speaker 1: was never not once.
44:36
Speaker 2: Did anybody I mean, you know I've interviewed a lot
44:41
Speaker 2: of warfighters. I'm a warfighter. A lot of times somebody
44:45
Speaker 2: on the team will have some type of a feeling
44:47
Speaker 2: or a premonition or, you know, hey, we shouldn't be
44:51
Speaker 2: here right now or something's about to happen. I don't
44:53
Speaker 2: have a good feeling about this. Did anybody here on
44:55
Speaker 2: your team or Charlie, anybody, express any concerns about that day?
45:01
Speaker 2: On that day, for us personally, when you walk in and,
45:06
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about workup, right? So we start
45:09
Speaker 2: the back workup. And then we're a little different also
45:13
Speaker 2: as far as our guys don't just get to show up.
45:17
Speaker 2: The team goes out and we physically build all of
45:21
Speaker 2: our prevention model. So they don't show up and just
45:24
Speaker 2: see it. They physically build it and we walk through
45:27
Speaker 2: it each other and we make sure things are done right.
45:30
Speaker 2: And so our guys are pulling back racks and putting
45:32
Speaker 2: them together and they're putting tape up and they're looking
45:36
Speaker 2: at places all around the bubble that our area of
45:38
Speaker 2: responsibility is. And so, you know, they're looking around thinking, God,
45:42
Speaker 2: this is horrible. You know, it's a beautiful amphitheater there
45:47
Speaker 2: at UVU, but, you know, you're a tactician. If you're
45:54
Speaker 2: somewhere and you're covered from an elevated position from 180 degrees,
45:58
Speaker 2: it's horrible. And that's where we were.
46:01
Speaker 1: But. That's come out. Why would they have it there?
46:05
Speaker 1: This is ignorance. It's a security fail. And I'm like, one,
46:08
Speaker 1: that's where they told us we had to have it.
46:12
Speaker 1: We weren't optioned out anywhere else. There's a permit you
46:15
Speaker 1: have to get. And the school says, nope, this is
46:17
Speaker 1: where you have to have it. We don't get to
46:20
Speaker 1: argue with them. We don't get to say, no, but
46:24
Speaker 1: that's it. This is where you put, this is where
46:26
Speaker 1: you have to do it. And then secondarily, Charlie liked it.
46:33
Speaker 1: there weren't it wasn't ticketing you didn't have gates um
46:37
Speaker 1: people regular people showed up and we had spoke to
46:41
Speaker 1: him about it before and it's like man this is
46:44
Speaker 1: getting dangerous you know and his response was i know
46:49
Speaker 1: and so it's like but if you ticket it and
46:53
Speaker 1: you make people jump through hoops to come in or
46:56
Speaker 1: pay or go through magnetrometers and then the people with
47:01
Speaker 1: opposing views don't show up and then there's no conversation.
47:04
Speaker 1: And when there's no conversation, there's more division. And his
47:09
Speaker 1: goal was to have less division through conversation. And so
47:14
Speaker 1: the easiest way to get that was to open it up.
47:19
Speaker 1: And so, and that's not the first, I mean, UVU
47:22
Speaker 1: was an open air, but We did San Francisco where
47:25
Speaker 1: we had a street takeover and people trying to climb
47:30
Speaker 1: over fences and our primary and secondary exfil got compromised.
47:36
Speaker 1: And so it was bad. Wow. And so we've had
47:40
Speaker 1: New Mexico where we had no law enforcement assistance and
47:45
Speaker 1: not last year, year before. And we end up physically
47:47
Speaker 1: just fighting our way out of there. And so it's like,
47:52
Speaker 1: we get it. the risk but his response and his
47:58
Speaker 1: You know his mentality was it this is worth it.
48:02
Speaker 1: We're making gains here In your coordination with UVU, I
48:07
Speaker 1: mean did they offer any assistance Anything at all? Yeah,
48:11
Speaker 1: did you ask them if anything? Absolutely so we come
48:15
Speaker 1: in and we start looking at things immediately like Where
48:20
Speaker 1: are our risks? You know, it's a risk assessment when
48:23
Speaker 1: we come in. That's why we get there. That's why
48:26
Speaker 1: we start doing the advance so early. We walk it,
48:28
Speaker 1: you know, we build it ourselves. And so initially we have,
48:33
Speaker 1: I spent thousands of dollars on drones last year and
48:37
Speaker 1: got the guy's license. But if the area lies in
48:41
Speaker 1: the Provo, Utah air space, I can't fly it. That's
48:46
Speaker 1: a 107B. We can't break the rules. And then you
48:50
Speaker 1: had secondary restrictions, probably due to heavy foot traffic for
48:53
Speaker 1: the school. But I can't go in and break the rules.
48:57
Speaker 1: There's laws for a reason. And so now the school
49:02
Speaker 1: could have flown drones, the PD, but they didn't have them.
49:07
Speaker 1: And then so, but Orem PD has a drone unit,
49:11
Speaker 1: active and professional. And that police department, I will tell
49:14
Speaker 1: you right now, is awesome. They get it. They were there.
49:19
Speaker 1: They helped both on the soft side and the hard side.
49:22
Speaker 1: And so I started asking questions like, you guys have
49:27
Speaker 1: a drone unit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. Do you
49:29
Speaker 1: have an MOU or a mutual aid agreement with the school?
49:32
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah. I said, did they call you
49:34
Speaker 1: and ask for assistance? No. I'm like, why wouldn't you call?
49:41
Speaker 1: And then, so, you know, that's one. So just, I
49:44
Speaker 1: can't go in and break the law. I can't make
49:46
Speaker 1: my guys break the law. I can't go in and
49:49
Speaker 1: do something that would jeopardize their career. Do you have
49:51
Speaker 1: any idea why they would say no? I mean, did they,
49:55
Speaker 1: was this malicious? Was this being malicious towards Charlie? I
49:59
Speaker 1: don't know who knows the right one. I would say,
50:02
Speaker 1: did you ask? Did you ask this awesome PD... that
50:07
Speaker 1: would probably help you in a heartbeat, that you have
50:10
Speaker 1: an MOU with, did you even ask them? And the
50:14
Speaker 1: answer was from them, we didn't get asked. We didn't
50:19
Speaker 1: get asked. And then so table the drones, which would've
50:23
Speaker 1: been awesome, absolutely. I believe in them, but I can't
50:27
Speaker 1: break the law to do it. We're out there not
50:29
Speaker 1: only protecting them physically, but I have to protect the
50:32
Speaker 1: reputation of the client also. And that's a whole separate
50:36
Speaker 1: thing of protection So the drones would have been awesome,
50:40
Speaker 1: but I can't break the law. They could have used them.
50:43
Speaker 1: They chose not to. And you got Overwatch. Yeah, snipers
50:50
Speaker 1: on roofs. I got guys that are qualified. That's their career.
50:54
Speaker 1: But this is not a State Department job. I don't
50:59
Speaker 1: have an ITAR, and this is in Iraq. This is Utah.
51:04
Speaker 1: I can't go in and set up observation points with
51:07
Speaker 1: snipers That's against the law. I can't break federal and
51:10
Speaker 1: state law to do what we need to accomplish. So
51:16
Speaker 1: that's their job. Our job is the close protection bubble,
51:20
Speaker 1: and there's a saying on this, and there's areas of responsibility,
51:25
Speaker 1: and we cut up the areas of responsibility in this pre-meet,
51:32
Speaker 1: or when we start doing the advance. We've got this,
51:34
Speaker 1: you've got this. And so....
51:38
Speaker 2: You know, they have that overwatch capability, and they have
51:43
Speaker 2: an MOU for SWAT for that through Orem not utilized.
51:49
Speaker 1: Don't know why? That's a question for them to ask.
51:52
Speaker 1: Why didn't you call? Why didn't you ask for assistance,
51:55
Speaker 1: especially when this crowd grew and grew and grew? I mean,
52:00
Speaker 1: good police tactics. If you're out and you have six
52:03
Speaker 1: guys that show up and all of a sudden this
52:04
Speaker 1: thing goes from 1,500 to 2,000 to 3,000 people, you go, hey,
52:10
Speaker 1: we need some help. Mm-hmm. Follow your pride or whatever
52:13
Speaker 1: it is. We need some help. I took 12 guys there.
52:18
Speaker 1: I had double the amount of people there that the
52:20
Speaker 1: PD had. And we're only responsible for the first 30
52:24
Speaker 1: meters and movement in and advance in and receiving and out.
52:29
Speaker 1: And we had 12 guys. They gave me six for
52:32
Speaker 1: the rest of the campus. jeez yeah and so that's
52:41
Speaker 1: not the question for me to to say why didn't
52:44
Speaker 1: they that's the question for them and so there was
52:48
Speaker 1: that one the site man that's not it wasn't up
52:50
Speaker 1: to us two drones i i can't break the law
52:54
Speaker 1: to do something i want to do otherwise i'd have
52:56
Speaker 1: showed up with a apc well with.
52:59
Speaker 2: The drones i mean you you were in coordination with
53:03
Speaker 2: Local police department, correct? No, the UVU has jurisdictional authority.
53:08
Speaker 2: It's their campus. Orem is the outside city. They weren't
53:12
Speaker 2: there because they hadn't asked. They hadn't been asked to come.
53:16
Speaker 2: And we can't ask them to come. I can't call
53:19
Speaker 2: Orem PD and say, hey, man, send me 10 guys.
53:23
Speaker 1: I can't do that. I don't have the authority to
53:25
Speaker 1: do that or the budget. But the city, I mean,
53:29
Speaker 1: the school PD has an MOU or mutual aid agreement
53:32
Speaker 1: with them. why not just call them and say, hey,
53:34
Speaker 1: can you guys send us 10 guys over here for Overwatch,
53:38
Speaker 1: all that? And I say that only because we had
53:44
Speaker 1: previously talked about areas of responsibility. And in the areas
53:50
Speaker 1: of responsibility, and I had a– and our guys all
53:55
Speaker 1: have not only an area of responsibility, but there's a
53:58
Speaker 1: job in a job. So you have your area and
54:01
Speaker 1: you have a job for that area, but then you
54:03
Speaker 1: also know the guy's area and job next to you
54:05
Speaker 1: in case he goes down or something you have to
54:08
Speaker 1: backfill him. And then we have the bubble around the protectee.
54:14
Speaker 1: And mathematically, 2,000 people are in front of you. Where's
54:18
Speaker 1: mathematically the threat coming from? The front.
54:22
Speaker 2: Right.
54:22
Speaker 1: And so we're looking for walk-ups. You know, people walk up,
54:27
Speaker 1: sitting down a package, walking away. displaying a firearm, everything
54:32
Speaker 1: from throwing balloons full of piss to muriatic acid. We've
54:37
Speaker 1: had all kind of stuff thrown on us over the years.
54:40
Speaker 1: And so there's a reason why those things are set
54:43
Speaker 1: up that way. And there's a reason why those guys
54:46
Speaker 1: that day were set up around there. Every guy has
54:49
Speaker 1: a job. Every guy has a detail. Every guy knows
54:52
Speaker 1: the guy's job next to him. And so we have
54:57
Speaker 1: that set. And then We other people have areas of responsibility. Well,
55:04
Speaker 1: the Monday before the event, we were still working through
55:11
Speaker 1: the arrival. And so we have concerns with rooftops. I mean,
55:20
Speaker 1: we got a location that we're not keen with. We
55:25
Speaker 1: know what our responsibility is. We know what our statutory
55:28
Speaker 1: authority is. We know that we can't go up and
55:30
Speaker 1: set up our guys in sniper observer positions. It's not
55:36
Speaker 1: going to be allowed. And so we have some correspondence
55:40
Speaker 1: with the chief of the school on that day, on
55:43
Speaker 1: Monday before Charlie was killed. And why this hadn't come
55:48
Speaker 1: out and why he won't stand up like a man
55:52
Speaker 1: and admit this, I don't know. But he's watching a
55:55
Speaker 1: bunch of men lose their careers, and he's okay with it.
56:01
Speaker 1: On Monday before, this correspondence went to Chief Long. Hello,
56:06
Speaker 1: Chief Long. I received this message today from the student group.
56:11
Speaker 1: There is a student roof access pretty close to where
56:14
Speaker 1: CK will be set up at the Utah Valley, the
56:17
Speaker 1: Sorenson Center. It has a couple of staircases that go
56:21
Speaker 1: up to walkways on the roofs. He comes back, and
56:25
Speaker 1: for edification, the Sorenson Center was the building in front
56:29
Speaker 1: of the Lucy Center. And so he comes back and says,
56:34
Speaker 1: you want access to the roof? And came back and said,
56:39
Speaker 1: I was told students have access above us. If this
56:42
Speaker 1: is true, it would be nice to either have it
56:46
Speaker 1: controlled access or allow one of my guys to be
56:51
Speaker 1: there as well, if possible. He comes back and his
56:55
Speaker 1: last correspondence was, I got you covered. What else am
57:05
Speaker 1: I to do? When a command level person from an
57:12
Speaker 1: accredited police department says, I've got this area. Jeez. Have
57:19
Speaker 1: you been in... Who was that? That was the chief
57:22
Speaker 1: of police for the UVU police department. We've called him.
57:25
Speaker 1: He's never called us back. Holy shit. Does he have
57:31
Speaker 1: a name? Chief Long. Chief Long. And I didn't know
57:36
Speaker 1: if it said deputy in that or not because in
57:39
Speaker 1: the correspondent or in his stuff on the website, it
57:44
Speaker 1: says deputy Chief Long, but we just called him Chief Long.
57:47
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, I got guys that are 10
57:53
Speaker 1: times more qualified than what he could have produced for
57:55
Speaker 1: us probably. So literally all they had to do is
57:59
Speaker 1: post anybody at that stairwell. Stairwell roof. Or put a
58:05
Speaker 1: drone up. Or let us. Let you do your job.
58:11
Speaker 1: Or let us. You know, our team is built.
58:18
Speaker 2: Would it be okay if we put that screenshot of
58:21
Speaker 2: that text up for everybody to see?
58:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So they know it's real? Absolutely. And do a
58:26
Speaker 1: FOIA for his phone. That's a good idea. Do a FOIA.
58:31
Speaker 1: Do a FOIA for his phone and have those records
58:33
Speaker 1: put out so everybody can see them. Do a FOIA
58:36
Speaker 1: for the communications for days leading up to it. Do it.
58:41
Speaker 1: And the truth's like a line. You set it free
58:43
Speaker 1: and it'll pop for itself.
58:47
Speaker 2: One of my favorite sayings. Last question before we take
58:51
Speaker 2: a break. I just want to ask, were you understaffed or,
58:54
Speaker 2: I mean, was anybody sick?
58:57
Speaker 1: Did you have what you needed? Yeah, we We usually
58:59
Speaker 1: had been- This was the same as every other event. No, no,
59:02
Speaker 1: we upped it. You upped it. Yeah, we upped it.
59:06
Speaker 1: We usually would run eight to nine, depending on how
59:08
Speaker 1: many movements and how much movement inside. And so based
59:13
Speaker 1: on no articulable threat, but just the current world situation
59:20
Speaker 1: prior to that day, we upped the manpower to 12.
59:26
Speaker 1: And then we had actually a 13 there that came
59:29
Speaker 1: in the drive party. And so, but yeah, we upped
59:34
Speaker 1: it based on nothing because it's like, all right, that
59:38
Speaker 1: we're in a kind of a place where we don't
59:40
Speaker 1: want to be.
59:42
Speaker 2: We're expecting a big crowd. It's the first one.
59:46
Speaker 1: We don't want to get behind the eight ball. We
59:51
Speaker 1: in security industry, it's a prevention industry, not a response industry.
59:54
Speaker 1: It is a response industry, but it should be a
59:56
Speaker 1: prevention industry. So we're there in the prevention model. And
1:00:00
Speaker 1: so you can see, if you pull the schematic up,
1:00:04
Speaker 1: the placement I put for our guys. And on that day,
1:00:09
Speaker 1: thank goodness we had them because where the tent was
1:00:12
Speaker 1: that Charlie was under, there was a giant walkway above him.
1:00:16
Speaker 1: And when we were doing the walk that morning, one
1:00:20
Speaker 1: of the things that didn't come out in our advance
1:00:22
Speaker 1: was there was giant rocks that they used for architectural
1:00:26
Speaker 1: design all around there. And so we're seeing these rocks
1:00:31
Speaker 1: on the ground, and it's like, oh, people can come
1:00:33
Speaker 1: by and pick up these rocks and then throw them
1:00:35
Speaker 1: down on us and throw them down on Charlie. And
1:00:38
Speaker 1: so we did a temporary criminal trespass zone right above
1:00:42
Speaker 1: him on that bridge walkway so that people couldn't come
1:00:46
Speaker 1: in it and throw rocks down on him. But the
1:00:51
Speaker 1: problem is that we had to get PD units in
1:00:53
Speaker 1: here to take that area of responsibility. And we told them, hey,
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Just like out there, we need you here to have
1:01:03
Speaker 1: oversight coverage because, one, it's a tape line. It's not
1:01:07
Speaker 1: a hard, you know, wall or anything. And so you
1:01:10
Speaker 1: need statutory authority under Utah law to say, hey, you
1:01:13
Speaker 1: can't come in or you can be arrested. And so
1:01:15
Speaker 1: the PD came and did that. And then we had one, Scott,
1:01:19
Speaker 1: that did a hellacious job on making sure they stayed
1:01:22
Speaker 1: there and did their job. And so thank goodness we
1:01:27
Speaker 1: brought extra people.
1:01:28
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
1:01:30
Speaker 1: And so we upped our manpower for that one. Due
1:01:33
Speaker 1: diligence was done. You know, it's weird in the security industry.
1:01:40
Speaker 1: I get calls all the time and they're like, hey,
1:01:43
Speaker 1: we want to run a security detail and we want,
1:01:46
Speaker 1: you know, 10 guys, former SEALs and operators and SWAT guys,
1:01:51
Speaker 1: and we want up armoureds and this and this. And
1:01:54
Speaker 1: then I'm like, all right, you know, here's what it's
1:01:56
Speaker 1: going to cost. And they'll call back, all right, we
1:01:58
Speaker 1: want one guy and a Toyota Sienna, you know. And
1:02:02
Speaker 1: so it's, budget's a factor. And we eat a lot
1:02:07
Speaker 1: of money every year based on, you know, hey, last
1:02:11
Speaker 1: minute non-approval of people, but let's bring them in just
1:02:13
Speaker 1: to save our asses. And that's a regular thing. And so, yeah,
1:02:20
Speaker 1: we had people for our assignments. And our assignment and
1:02:23
Speaker 1: our people's assignment was carry out meticulously. I mean, you
1:02:27
Speaker 1: had Dan next to Charlie, and Dan's only job is exfil.
1:02:31
Speaker 1: And you can see when Charlie got shot, within two seconds,
1:02:34
Speaker 1: Dan had his hands on him to push him down
1:02:35
Speaker 1: to the ground. And then within, you break it down forensically,
1:02:41
Speaker 1: like within five seconds, I was on top of Charlie.
1:02:45
Speaker 1: And then you saw our team actually doing exactly falling
1:02:51
Speaker 1: back on top of him and collapsing back on top
1:02:55
Speaker 1: of him. Not one radio comms came out. It's unneeded.
1:02:58
Speaker 1: They all know their jobs. Let's take a quick break,
1:03:02
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we'll get into Actions On. Okay. Perfect.
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Speaker 2: All right, Brian, we're back from the break. We're getting
1:07:46
Speaker 2: ready to cover timeline and security during the event Action's on.
1:07:51
Speaker 2: And so could you Could you walk me through the
1:07:54
Speaker 2: security setup for the event?
1:07:57
Speaker 1: Sure. Who's placed where, what you guys are seeing? Yeah.
1:08:00
Speaker 1: So we come in and we start, we look at
1:08:04
Speaker 1: setup in the mornings. And like I said earlier, the
1:08:06
Speaker 1: guys are all part of it. So there's intimate knowledge.
1:08:08
Speaker 1: Every guy has intimate knowledge of the setup. So we
1:08:11
Speaker 1: come in, we do the placement of where Charlie's going
1:08:13
Speaker 1: to speak from. And that's kind of like the ground zero.
1:08:16
Speaker 1: And then we build out from that. And people in
1:08:20
Speaker 1: the security industry, you know, you have this thing called
1:08:22
Speaker 1: the concentric circle of security theory, right? And it doesn't
1:08:24
Speaker 1: have to be a circle. It could be a line
1:08:26
Speaker 1: or a moving box or however you want to work it.
1:08:28
Speaker 1: And you have zones and you have a permeable zone,
1:08:33
Speaker 1: a semi-permeable zone, and a non-permeable zone. And so you
1:08:38
Speaker 1: can come in on the fly and set up these zones.
1:08:42
Speaker 1: And so we come in and we set this up.
1:08:45
Speaker 1: So Charlie's tent and was on that right in the middle.
1:08:49
Speaker 1: And then we start, so you want to start at
1:08:52
Speaker 1: the very back. And so we started with a non-permeable zone,
1:08:56
Speaker 1: but it was one of those ones where it's mainly
1:08:58
Speaker 1: visual and it's just tape. across this arrival section. And
1:09:02
Speaker 1: all it is is caution tape, but it's just to
1:09:04
Speaker 1: keep good people good. That's it, and we know that.
1:09:08
Speaker 1: And so that's just to let people, the foot traffic
1:09:13
Speaker 1: out that we know people won't come in there so
1:09:15
Speaker 1: that if somebody's doing something bad, they stick out. Mm-hmm.
1:09:20
Speaker 1: And then inside that zone, we place our vehicles and
1:09:23
Speaker 1: you can kind of see it on the aerial or
1:09:26
Speaker 1: you can see it when you see the footage. We
1:09:29
Speaker 1: put those vehicles behind Charlie's where he's speaking for a
1:09:32
Speaker 1: reason that day. It's called CEPTED, Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design.
1:09:38
Speaker 1: A worry was that somebody would come down that same
1:09:40
Speaker 1: driveway and just run us, run him over from the
1:09:43
Speaker 1: back or run us, run people over. So you stack
1:09:46
Speaker 1: those vehicles so that the vehicles are being used kind
1:09:50
Speaker 1: of like big HESCOs or something. Barricades. Yeah, barricades. And
1:09:54
Speaker 1: so that people can't get to them that way. And
1:09:59
Speaker 1: then we started in, technically that's semi-permeable. We still cover it.
1:10:05
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, people could walk through there, but they
1:10:06
Speaker 1: have to be knowns. And then we went with hard
1:10:09
Speaker 1: bike racks. So hard bike racks then come all the
1:10:12
Speaker 1: way across the back and they're linked together. And so.
1:10:17
Speaker 1: Those bike racks keep people from coming in and out
1:10:19
Speaker 1: unless they're vetted, and that's where you would start the
1:10:22
Speaker 1: non-permeable zone. And then we put a guy there, and
1:10:26
Speaker 1: he physically is there to watch that. His job, that's
1:10:28
Speaker 1: his area of responsibility, is he's back cover. He's making
1:10:33
Speaker 1: sure people aren't coming up from behind us. He's making
1:10:36
Speaker 1: sure that the right people can come in and out.
1:10:39
Speaker 1: They don't have to be back there. And we're not
1:10:41
Speaker 1: talking about a large area. We're talking an area that's
1:10:43
Speaker 1: maybe 100 feet across, maybe more. And then there was
1:10:46
Speaker 1: also a police officer back there. We didn't request him
1:10:49
Speaker 1: to be there, but he showed up. And so we're like, hey,
1:10:52
Speaker 1: might as well utilize you. And so he just held
1:10:55
Speaker 1: the position on the far left side. And then you
1:10:58
Speaker 1: get where the tent is. And then that's kind of
1:11:00
Speaker 1: where to get into the meat and potatoes of it.
1:11:02
Speaker 1: Because number one rule of protection detail work is evade
1:11:07
Speaker 1: and escape. It is. If we can evade or escape
1:11:12
Speaker 1: any threat without having to to confront it, it's a win.
1:11:17
Speaker 1: I told you that time about getting shot at with
1:11:20
Speaker 1: a shotgun. I was pissed because I didn't get to
1:11:24
Speaker 1: shoot the guy back. And went back to the PD
1:11:28
Speaker 1: and I'm throwing shit and whatever. And my sergeant said,
1:11:32
Speaker 1: hey man, you won. You didn't get shot at, or
1:11:37
Speaker 1: you didn't get shot. He's in jail. You won. Well,
1:11:40
Speaker 1: that's kind of the way you have to look at
1:11:42
Speaker 1: that stuff in protection work. It's like, okay, let's evade
1:11:45
Speaker 1: and escape. And so things are set up that way.
1:11:48
Speaker 1: And so you have where Charlie sits, and then you
1:11:50
Speaker 1: have a guy right next to him. And that person's
1:11:52
Speaker 1: solely responsible for, in times of need, pushing him, moving him,
1:11:57
Speaker 1: getting him out of that line of fire or those actions,
1:12:01
Speaker 1: you know, escaping, evading, throwing him into that exfil vehicle
1:12:05
Speaker 1: that's parked right behind where we're at. And then... you'll
1:12:10
Speaker 1: see we ran two double barricades. And those barricades were
1:12:15
Speaker 1: presidential-style barricades. They're hooked in, the same kind you see
1:12:18
Speaker 1: the Secret Service use. And so we have an outer layer.
1:12:22
Speaker 1: And that first layer is just let everybody know, hey,
1:12:24
Speaker 1: you can't cross this. And they're physically, you know, keeps
1:12:27
Speaker 1: them from pushing over them. And if somebody comes over
1:12:30
Speaker 1: the top of them, you can see it just from
1:12:32
Speaker 1: the mere elevation change. And then we create a secondary
1:12:36
Speaker 1: row of them. with a gap in the middle of it.
1:12:39
Speaker 1: And that gap in the middle, though he didn't like it,
1:12:42
Speaker 1: he liked that because that was able to show, hey,
1:12:45
Speaker 1: there's nothing between us, right? There's nothing between us. Let's
1:12:50
Speaker 1: carry out this conversation. But, so I have two guys
1:12:53
Speaker 1: that are at that gap. And they come up, and
1:12:57
Speaker 1: one of them's a measure of a man who has
1:12:59
Speaker 1: physical capabilities that are incredible. And then the one on
1:13:05
Speaker 1: the right side, is a jujitsu guy, a world-renowned professor.
1:13:10
Speaker 1: And so their job is, if somebody tries to press
1:13:13
Speaker 1: through that gap or get close to him, then they're
1:13:17
Speaker 1: going to hold them up. And then just off their
1:13:20
Speaker 1: flanks are two other guys, Blake and Blake. And those
1:13:25
Speaker 1: guys' sole job is to control access into that alley.
1:13:29
Speaker 1: And also, if somebody tries to breach the integrity of
1:13:32
Speaker 1: those two guys, they're there to apply violence. so that
1:13:36
Speaker 1: they can hold that and we won't weaken our stance.
1:13:41
Speaker 1: So those jobs are a response to apply violence on
1:13:43
Speaker 1: those people that are trying to weaken our stance. And
1:13:46
Speaker 1: then they're also access control into that little alley we've created.
1:13:52
Speaker 1: That alley creates a secondary gap, but it also allows
1:13:55
Speaker 1: us to vet people, make sure, nope, you can't bring
1:13:59
Speaker 1: packages in, no water bottles, you know, check for protrusions,
1:14:05
Speaker 1: all that. And so when they come through there and
1:14:06
Speaker 1: they're the gatekeeper there, right? So on that one side,
1:14:09
Speaker 1: he comes in, he makes sure. And then they come down,
1:14:13
Speaker 1: they passes off to the next guy and he comes
1:14:15
Speaker 1: up to the microphone and speaks. And then when he's done,
1:14:19
Speaker 1: he goes out the other side and that guy makes
1:14:21
Speaker 1: sure he moves on. And then that guy, Blake, on
1:14:25
Speaker 1: the other side, make sure he goes all the way out.
1:14:28
Speaker 1: And so they have, those guys are dual rolled, where
1:14:32
Speaker 1: I'm up, They're there if these guys have problems, they're
1:14:34
Speaker 1: going in to apply violence so that we don't lose
1:14:36
Speaker 1: any integrity of our protection so we can facilitate escape.
1:14:40
Speaker 1: And then they're also gatekeepers. And then you get deeper
1:14:44
Speaker 1: in the crowd and there's the guys that what they're
1:14:48
Speaker 1: looking for is walk-ups. The guys that are walking up close.
1:14:53
Speaker 1: They're in the crowd. They're in the crowd. They're wearing clothes.
1:14:56
Speaker 1: They're playing clothes. They're working in the crowd. And Rick's
1:15:01
Speaker 1: over there, and Rick's job is to watch what's going
1:15:04
Speaker 1: on here and then turn and apply and look at
1:15:07
Speaker 1: the line. And you look for things like military-age males
1:15:11
Speaker 1: that aren't having social contact with other people. So they're
1:15:15
Speaker 1: up there, but there's no looking around. There's no talking.
1:15:18
Speaker 1: They got prey gaze on the guy who's talking. No blinking.
1:15:24
Speaker 1: So there's a hard prey gaze, no blinking. when you
1:15:27
Speaker 1: get closer, say, excessive blinking. And so that's a good
1:15:31
Speaker 1: tell right there of a pre-incident indicator of violence. These
1:15:34
Speaker 1: guys are out there doing that. All of them are
1:15:36
Speaker 1: doing it in real time. And so, and you're looking
1:15:40
Speaker 1: for that. And how many of those guys are there?
1:15:42
Speaker 2: We have, in that, so far, we've gone through one, two, three, four, five, six.
1:15:49
Speaker 1: Five, six. All right, and then so then, We got
1:15:51
Speaker 1: those guys out in the crowd. We got Scott working
1:15:54
Speaker 1: it over on the flank to make sure people from
1:15:57
Speaker 1: above are not throwing rocks down on people. Chris is
1:16:00
Speaker 1: over there with them. You got Justin and Alex holding
1:16:04
Speaker 1: that hard line. You got response to violence guys right here.
1:16:08
Speaker 1: You got intel gather a guy out here and making
1:16:12
Speaker 1: sure there's no walk-ups and or people that would walk
1:16:14
Speaker 1: up and physically wanna apply violence in close proximity. And
1:16:18
Speaker 1: then you start getting, we had to rotate some guys
1:16:22
Speaker 1: because we had people coming in and exactly doing that.
1:16:25
Speaker 1: Started pushing up signs, started chanting, started creating distraction and
1:16:32
Speaker 1: making problems. So we pushed a couple guys over just
1:16:35
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on that. And those are guys
1:16:38
Speaker 1: who are doing direct reporting. So they're the ones that
1:16:40
Speaker 1: are saying, hey, it's 14 of them, or they're just
1:16:45
Speaker 1: doing signs. And so they're giving us real intel in
1:16:47
Speaker 1: real time. And these are also the guys that, They're
1:16:52
Speaker 1: working the outfield and these guys are out there for
1:16:56
Speaker 1: a reason. These are seasoned guys, these 30-year cops that
1:16:59
Speaker 1: have shown, and not cops that are just in their
1:17:02
Speaker 1: checking boxes. These are guys that went to work every
1:17:05
Speaker 1: day and they're like, my job's to catch bad guys.
1:17:08
Speaker 1: How do you catch bad guys? By doing work. They're
1:17:12
Speaker 1: work finders. And so that's why I put them out
1:17:14
Speaker 1: there because they know how to go out and find work.
1:17:16
Speaker 1: They're not going to wait for work to come to
1:17:17
Speaker 1: them because it's too late then. An example of that
1:17:21
Speaker 1: was before it's even over with, I mean, before it
1:17:25
Speaker 1: even started. We put those guys out in the crowd
1:17:29
Speaker 1: and they're walking around, presence patrol, gathering information. And we
1:17:34
Speaker 1: saw some guys that were standing up in one, not
1:17:37
Speaker 1: in the Sorenson Center, the Lucy, but another area. And
1:17:40
Speaker 1: it was a guy that was in his 40s that
1:17:44
Speaker 1: looked like he obviously wasn't a student or was too
1:17:47
Speaker 1: old to be a student. He had a backpack, no socialization.
1:17:51
Speaker 1: wasn't talking to other people. And so we went up
1:17:54
Speaker 1: and do contact and conversation. Hey Hal, what's going on?
1:17:58
Speaker 1: What brought you here today? And then we did that
1:18:01
Speaker 1: several times and then we turned all that information over
1:18:03
Speaker 1: to the FBI. Is that the guy that was, is
1:18:10
Speaker 1: this the guy that stood up? Okay, we'll get to that.
1:18:13
Speaker 1: We'll get to that. And so those guys are in
1:18:16
Speaker 1: real time out in the crowd because that's our area
1:18:20
Speaker 1: of responsibility, reporting real-time intel to us.
1:18:23
Speaker 2: So you got, if I were to, if I had
1:18:25
Speaker 2: a schematic of this, of the venue right now, which
1:18:28
Speaker 2: we'll put one up, I mean, you have this entire
1:18:31
Speaker 2: venue broken into zones. Zones, areas of responsibility. You have
1:18:35
Speaker 2: people scanning, different people scanning. Every zone's covered from scanning.
1:18:41
Speaker 2: Not only do you not have, not only do you
1:18:43
Speaker 2: not just have scanning, you also have actual plainclothes, Security
1:18:48
Speaker 2: professionals within the crowd. We're all dressed like, you know,
1:18:52
Speaker 2: we're just wearing regular clothes.
1:18:55
Speaker 1: We're not wearing suits and jams.
1:18:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I meant detached from the detail. Nobody
1:18:59
Speaker 2: really knows that they're in the security element.
1:19:01
Speaker 1: I mean, they look it. They're not, you know, they
1:19:04
Speaker 1: all have the look, right? But they're not college kids.
1:19:08
Speaker 1: They're all... tasked with an active responsibility for that area
1:19:12
Speaker 1: of responsibility, and then they overlap. So those areas of
1:19:16
Speaker 1: responsibility overlap. They don't go 200 meters out because there's
1:19:21
Speaker 1: a saying that these guys, I always talk to them
1:19:24
Speaker 1: about it, we train to it, is you have your
1:19:28
Speaker 1: area of responsibility, but if you're looking out all over this,
1:19:31
Speaker 1: you're not going to see anything. You've got to look
1:19:34
Speaker 1: at less so you can see more.
1:19:36
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
1:19:36
Speaker 1: And so you pare down what you're looking at and
1:19:39
Speaker 1: you pare down through that area of responsibility so you
1:19:41
Speaker 1: can see the things that are going on. And once
1:19:43
Speaker 1: that's cleared, you move to the next one. But if
1:19:45
Speaker 1: you're just looking out at the mountainside, all you're going
1:19:48
Speaker 1: to see is the mountainside. And the rooftops were supposed
1:19:51
Speaker 1: to be covered from the police drones. PD said, I
1:19:54
Speaker 1: got you covered.
1:19:55
Speaker 2: I've got you covered. And so that zone was dropped.
1:20:00
Speaker 1: Yes. And so that's the... the assignment of our team,
1:20:08
Speaker 1: you know, personal security detail is just that, personal. Our
1:20:15
Speaker 1: mathematics are, there's 3,000 people within 50 meters, right? And
1:20:22
Speaker 1: so we are working that. And then you have that,
1:20:26
Speaker 1: but then you also have the guys that are inside
1:20:30
Speaker 1: that bubble. And then I'm off to the ride of it.
1:20:32
Speaker 1: And my area right there is command control. It's, hey, man,
1:20:35
Speaker 1: we're looking a little weak over here, or a guy's
1:20:38
Speaker 1: reporting in, I need assistance over here, right? Can you
1:20:40
Speaker 1: see this? I can't see that. And so we're working
1:20:43
Speaker 1: in real time on comms for that and or helping
1:20:49
Speaker 1: fill in a spot. Somebody gets out of hand, I
1:20:52
Speaker 1: don't run over and jump on Blake and help Blake
1:20:55
Speaker 1: because I know Blake's a big boy and he can
1:20:57
Speaker 1: handle himself. I go back, fill in where Blake just
1:21:00
Speaker 1: left so that we're not leaving something open to go
1:21:03
Speaker 1: address a threat. And so, unless it's something catastrophic, obviously.
1:21:08
Speaker 1: And then you saw in the video where something catastrophic happens,
1:21:12
Speaker 1: there's no chatter needed. There's no talk to be needed.
1:21:15
Speaker 1: Every guy's done that. We practice that. And there was
1:21:20
Speaker 1: a radio personality. I won't even say his name because
1:21:25
Speaker 1: he's not worth it. But he came out and he's like,
1:21:29
Speaker 1: look at this. These guys are like a football team.
1:21:32
Speaker 1: You can tell they were zipping and zapping. You can
1:21:35
Speaker 1: tell they rehearsed this. You can tell they were staged.
1:21:38
Speaker 1: This was staged. And I'm like, they didn't even hesitate.
1:21:45
Speaker 1: And he's sitting there just cracking us because our guys
1:21:48
Speaker 1: didn't run around like chickens with their head cut off.
1:21:51
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, we practiced that. That's how
1:21:55
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be. When we train, we have iterations,
1:22:00
Speaker 1: whether it's PT training, or medical, or shooting, and the
1:22:05
Speaker 1: guy that finishes last, because everything's a competition, because that
1:22:10
Speaker 1: breeds near perfection. The guy that finishes last, he has
1:22:13
Speaker 1: to get carried by the team to the next generation.
1:22:18
Speaker 1: And how do we carry them? The same way we
1:22:20
Speaker 1: carry Charlie. So that's been done literally hundreds of times.
1:22:26
Speaker 1: And so you don't need to talk about what you
1:22:28
Speaker 1: need to do when you know what you need to do.
1:22:33
Speaker 2: Was there anything strange, anything stand out, anything at all?
1:22:38
Speaker 2: Or did this just, you know, once you guys were
1:22:40
Speaker 2: in place, once the event had started, Charlie was speaking.
1:22:44
Speaker 2: I mean, is there anything that seemed out of place
1:22:46
Speaker 2: at all?
1:22:47
Speaker 1: Well, we do the arrival, and we were supposed to
1:22:50
Speaker 1: do a meet and greet when he first arrived. And
1:22:52
Speaker 1: that meet and greet was in a hard room. But
1:22:56
Speaker 1: the timeline was a little off, so he decided, or
1:23:00
Speaker 1: they radioed to us, hey, meet and greet's going to
1:23:02
Speaker 1: be off. And so we're going to run in and
1:23:04
Speaker 1: use the restroom real quick, and then we're going to
1:23:08
Speaker 1: go straight to the tent. And so that was a
1:23:11
Speaker 1: call off, but that's one of those things. It's not abnormal,
1:23:14
Speaker 1: and we're used to that. But it doesn't change the
1:23:16
Speaker 1: plan other than we're going to a known. Somebody's going
1:23:20
Speaker 1: to receive him over there. Everything's clear, which it was.
1:23:24
Speaker 1: So we had a guy back by the restrooms to
1:23:26
Speaker 1: receive him. I had the door to pop it open.
1:23:29
Speaker 1: He walks in. He goes, hey, Brian, did you get
1:23:30
Speaker 1: any sleep? because we just got back from that South Korea, Japan.
1:23:36
Speaker 1: And I said, a little bit. And the last thing
1:23:38
Speaker 1: he ever said to me was, it's going to be
1:23:39
Speaker 1: a good day. He said, good. I said, a little bit.
1:23:42
Speaker 1: He said, good. It's going to be a good day. Yeah.
1:23:46
Speaker 1: And so we used the restroom. And then we did
1:23:54
Speaker 1: a couple meet and greets with some kids that were
1:23:57
Speaker 1: student volunteers. Just about that time. tape, you know, and
1:24:02
Speaker 1: so we did a hard line to keep people from
1:24:04
Speaker 1: walking up. And then we proceeded right to the tent.
1:24:08
Speaker 1: And so he starts throwing out the hats, which is
1:24:10
Speaker 1: a thing of his. Guys are already in place at
1:24:13
Speaker 1: that time. We're comms, we're calling in, hey, walking up,
1:24:17
Speaker 1: you know, five seconds, 10 seconds. They come up, crowd reacts,
1:24:22
Speaker 1: and then everybody goes to looking in their area of
1:24:24
Speaker 1: responsibility for you know, walk-ups, guns, people throwing things, stuff
1:24:32
Speaker 1: like that. And that would be the area right in
1:24:34
Speaker 1: front of them. And with the, just one more thing
1:24:37
Speaker 1: to cover, the evacuation routes. I mean, we had already covered,
1:24:40
Speaker 1: you guys have been there. You'd had a presence there
1:24:42
Speaker 1: for two weeks prior to the event. Do you have
1:24:45
Speaker 1: the routes to all the venues that specific, more specifically
1:24:50
Speaker 1: the hospital? Do you have multiple routes?
1:24:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:24:52
Speaker 1: So what we do on that one is, um, and, uh,
1:24:56
Speaker 1: We're not there for two weeks, but we start working
1:24:59
Speaker 1: that for two weeks. And that all gets plugged in.
1:25:01
Speaker 1: Where are we going? And the one that we went
1:25:04
Speaker 1: to was the closest one, but it was a level three. Yeah,
1:25:08
Speaker 1: we knew that. The next closest one was another seven
1:25:11
Speaker 1: minutes away. We're going to the closest one, and we
1:25:15
Speaker 1: beelined it to there. And I'll get into how we
1:25:19
Speaker 1: got there and what we did on the way in
1:25:20
Speaker 1: a minute.
1:25:21
Speaker 2: But, yeah, all that's plugged in. All that is information,
1:25:24
Speaker 2: and it's known.
1:25:26
Speaker 1: And we have a guy that, even though that route's pre-done,
1:25:31
Speaker 1: even though that's known, we still have a guy in
1:25:33
Speaker 1: there that's calling it out in real time on that
1:25:35
Speaker 1: right side. I mean, he's NAV, and that NAV is important,
1:25:40
Speaker 1: you know, because the guy's driving, he's driving. And we
1:25:44
Speaker 1: needed just an expert drove that day, like, man, yeah, incredible.
1:25:50
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, all that's known beforehand. And so when
1:25:53
Speaker 1: people said, oh, You should have an ambulance there. It's like, well, one,
1:25:58
Speaker 1: I can't make the city put an ambulance there. Now,
1:26:01
Speaker 1: there is a Utah law that says for mass gatherings
1:26:05
Speaker 1: like that, a Utah law says that for mass gatherings,
1:26:08
Speaker 1: a health officer needs to be assigned. I don't assign them.
1:26:13
Speaker 1: The PD does, whoever does. And then it says in
1:26:17
Speaker 1: that law, it says that they may determine where an
1:26:21
Speaker 1: ambulance is on standby. And I'm like, okay, well, they
1:26:25
Speaker 1: did have standby UTV medical there, but I can't make
1:26:30
Speaker 1: them make that, right? And first rule of emergency medicine,
1:26:35
Speaker 1: when an EMT goes, because I've done this, if you
1:26:38
Speaker 1: don't walk into the room when you're doing your skills
1:26:40
Speaker 1: portion and say, hey, is the scene safe? They fail
1:26:43
Speaker 1: you and you're done, right? And so those medics that
1:26:47
Speaker 1: were around that buggy were nowhere to be found. Why?
1:26:50
Speaker 1: Because they're taking cover like everybody else. Mm-hmm. And so,
1:26:55
Speaker 1: and the type of wound that we had, it's not
1:26:58
Speaker 1: a weight to the ambulance gets there. Yeah. And I'll
1:27:02
Speaker 1: talk about that and what that docks in and transport
1:27:04
Speaker 1: and all that. So all that was known and all
1:27:06
Speaker 1: that's done in the workup.
1:27:08
Speaker 2: So looking at hindsight here through the security footage, I mean,
1:27:12
Speaker 2: it came out that, you know, the shooter went unnoticed
1:27:17
Speaker 2: at 11.50 a.m. in the grassy area, 12.02 p.m. near
1:27:18
Speaker 2: the loose center. And then at 1223 p.m., when the
1:27:27
Speaker 2: shot was fired approximately 142 yards away, what was.
1:27:36
Speaker 1: Your immediate response? I'll address the shooter in the timeline first.
1:27:42
Speaker 1: You know what I want to know? I want to
1:27:44
Speaker 1: know when he got on the roof because we're shooters.
1:27:50
Speaker 1: where it's easy because we have a range and our
1:27:53
Speaker 1: guys do it as a sense of pride. Even though
1:27:56
Speaker 1: we know we work on all this other stuff more,
1:27:59
Speaker 1: the shooting we work on because it's a sense of pride.
1:28:02
Speaker 1: And then, so you look at things like that. In
1:28:05
Speaker 1: that shooting position, three meters to the right and 10
1:28:10
Speaker 1: meters to the left, there was no shot. And so
1:28:15
Speaker 1: I want to know when that guy got on the roof.
1:28:17
Speaker 1: Let's put the visual of.
1:28:19
Speaker 2: what that looks like on the screen right now.
1:28:22
Speaker 1: We took that shot before. We always do. We sit
1:28:26
Speaker 1: down in the space and we take the shot and
1:28:29
Speaker 1: send it back to Charlie so that he can see
1:28:32
Speaker 1: what he's going to see. And that's a routine thing
1:28:36
Speaker 1: that we do. It's a good idea.
1:28:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mental preparation. So here's a visual of what
1:28:46
Speaker 2: you guys were able to see.
1:28:49
Speaker 1: Yep, and so here's my question, and hopefully it'll come
1:28:53
Speaker 1: out in timeline. We've all seen the pictures of the
1:28:58
Speaker 1: guy when he came on through the staircase it's like
1:29:01
Speaker 1: okay there's a difference between a guy walking up and
1:29:05
Speaker 1: getting on a roof and a guy walking up getting
1:29:07
Speaker 1: on a roof and did he run over to a
1:29:10
Speaker 1: known position what you're doing there tactically is you're working
1:29:13
Speaker 1: a loophole you guys did that on a roof you
1:29:15
Speaker 1: bang a hole through one side you know uh and
1:29:18
Speaker 1: then you step back and you put another hole and
1:29:19
Speaker 1: you shoot through that hole and that opportunity comes through
1:29:22
Speaker 1: like this is a big loophole and so You tell
1:29:28
Speaker 1: me you just ran up onto a roof, pop yourself
1:29:31
Speaker 1: down in a position that was in a loophole.
1:29:34
Speaker 2: Can you describe that loophole again real quick, just now
1:29:37
Speaker 2: that we have the visual up so people can see it?
1:29:41
Speaker 1: You get up on this Sorenson Center. I mean, not
1:29:43
Speaker 1: Sorenson Center, Lucy Center. That's behind the Sorenson Center. And
1:29:47
Speaker 1: so from where we're sitting, where we're standing, we can't
1:29:50
Speaker 1: see it. One, it's not our area of responsibility, so
1:29:53
Speaker 1: that's why we're not looking there. First one, we're looking
1:29:56
Speaker 1: at threats right in front of us. You see, how
1:29:58
Speaker 1: many threats do you have in front of you right here?
1:30:00
Speaker 1: About 3,000. 3,000. Right, and so that's what we're looking at.
1:30:05
Speaker 1: And then it's kind of like you could be in
1:30:08
Speaker 1: front of an 18,000 foot mountain and there's a 36,000
1:30:12
Speaker 1: foot mountain behind it, you're not going to see it.
1:30:16
Speaker 1: And so we have to be cognizant of that. And
1:30:18
Speaker 1: then if he would have stopped just a little bit
1:30:22
Speaker 1: to the right, he wouldn't have been able to see
1:30:24
Speaker 1: it because the source and center would have been in
1:30:27
Speaker 1: the way. I mean, it's a.
1:30:28
Speaker 2: Very specific point. It's not just, which is what I thought.
1:30:33
Speaker 2: I thought it was just climb on the roof and
1:30:35
Speaker 2: you've got the vantage point.
1:30:36
Speaker 1: So you're telling me there's enough blind ass luck that
1:30:38
Speaker 1: you ran up there, didn't crawl. He didn't get up
1:30:47
Speaker 1: there like the secondary guy that tried to shoot Trump
1:30:50
Speaker 1: where he was bugged down in the weeds for a while.
1:30:53
Speaker 1: This was a boom on, boom, run two, boom, take
1:30:58
Speaker 1: the shot. And it's like, did you get all that off?
1:31:04
Speaker 1: I mean, it had to have.
1:31:05
Speaker 2: Been rehearsed to find that, which I believe you said
1:31:10
Speaker 2: is basically, did you say seven foot, seven foot? vantage point, basically,
1:31:16
Speaker 2: you had?
1:31:17
Speaker 1: Oh, I'd have to... It's small. It's small. It's not big.
1:31:19
Speaker 1: There's the visual. Who gives a fuck? It's a small,
1:31:23
Speaker 1: small area. It's not something... And then... You would have.
1:31:26
Speaker 2: To search for that. You would have to search for
1:31:29
Speaker 2: that vantage point if you didn't know. So it would
1:31:31
Speaker 2: be great to see the footage, maybe it's out there,
1:31:35
Speaker 2: of him running straight to the point, or did he
1:31:38
Speaker 2: search around looking for it?
1:31:39
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I want to know.
1:31:40
Speaker 2: Do we have... It'd be great if that chief of
1:31:42
Speaker 2: police would have put that fucking drone up.
1:31:44
Speaker 1: We'd have had it. Or I'd have flown that drone
1:31:49
Speaker 1: up his ass if we could have had one. So
1:31:54
Speaker 1: those are questions I have. Those are tactical questions. I mean,
1:31:58
Speaker 1: we make our guys do that kind of stuff all
1:32:00
Speaker 1: the time. Yep, nope, you're going to run 300 yards.
1:32:01
Speaker 1: You're going to jump over this wall. You're going to
1:32:04
Speaker 1: come home and you're going to take this shot with,
1:32:05
Speaker 1: ours is about a 35-foot declination at 200 yards, and
1:32:09
Speaker 1: you see guys that are even trained miff it every
1:32:14
Speaker 1: once in a while. And people are like, oh, that's
1:32:16
Speaker 1: an easy whip at 142. I'm like, yeah, the shot itself,
1:32:19
Speaker 1: but you're talking about old men that shoot stuff on sandbags.
1:32:23
Speaker 1: You and I both know, under duress, accurate shots are different.
1:32:30
Speaker 1: It's not.
1:32:33
Speaker 2: A, 142 yards is not a difficult shot with a
1:32:37
Speaker 2: magnifying optic.
1:32:38
Speaker 1: Not at all.
1:32:39
Speaker 2: It becomes more difficult when you're winded, when you're climbing,
1:32:43
Speaker 2: when you're running, when you are nervous.
1:32:45
Speaker 1: Visual noise all in front of you.
1:32:46
Speaker 2: When you're about to take a life, when you're wondering
1:32:49
Speaker 2: if anybody else is seeing you. I mean, there's a
1:32:50
Speaker 2: lot of induced stress. And, you know, and I just
1:32:53
Speaker 2: want to, you know, I mean, we're looking at this
1:32:55
Speaker 2: thing right now, this first-person view of what it looked
1:32:59
Speaker 2: like from.
1:33:00
Speaker 1: Under the tent. And I mean.
1:33:02
Speaker 2: I don't know how long he was in that gap for,
1:33:05
Speaker 2: but it didn't sound like it was very long. And
1:33:07
Speaker 2: you have 3,000 other threats that you're looking at, the
1:33:09
Speaker 2: rooftop supposedly being covered by the police. Maybe it would
1:33:14
Speaker 2: have been a good idea to confirm that the police
1:33:16
Speaker 2: had the drones up. But I mean, you are talking
1:33:19
Speaker 2: to the chief of police, you would think that he
1:33:21
Speaker 2: would have the fucking drones up.
1:33:24
Speaker 1: There were no drones, but then somebody earlier that day
1:33:27
Speaker 1: flew a drone up. Correct. Yeah.
1:33:30
Speaker 2: So actually, you probably wouldn't have confirmed because there are
1:33:34
Speaker 2: drones up.
1:33:35
Speaker 1: We didn't know where it came from, and we're like,
1:33:37
Speaker 1: what's the deal with this? Now, it's not uncommon for
1:33:42
Speaker 1: the video team to throw a drone up and then
1:33:46
Speaker 1: take a quick shot, and we've had that before. Now,
1:33:49
Speaker 1: their drones are different because they use those little bitty ones,
1:33:53
Speaker 1: and so they're not covered under the requirements. And so
1:33:57
Speaker 1: it's like, again... Yeah, you're right. Do I need to
1:34:05
Speaker 1: call a grown-ass man and say, hey, are you doing
1:34:07
Speaker 1: your job? Do I need to do that? You shouldn't.
1:34:18
Speaker 1: Especially a man in that position. And it's like, hey, man,
1:34:22
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan, but Bill Belichick won for a reason.
1:34:25
Speaker 1: He told his people, hey, do your job. And hey,
1:34:28
Speaker 1: if you don't want to do your job, that's fine.
1:34:29
Speaker 1: Do the job you said you were going to do.
1:34:31
Speaker 1: How about that one? So that's kind of where our
1:34:36
Speaker 1: guys are set up on there. And then I was
1:34:41
Speaker 1: to Charlie's right.
1:34:43
Speaker 2: There were a lot of, there's a lot of chatter
1:34:47
Speaker 2: on the internet about hand and arm signals, you know,
1:34:52
Speaker 2: from the security team. There's been concerns about it from
1:34:55
Speaker 2: my own personnel at work here I've worked security details,
1:35:01
Speaker 2: done a lot.
1:35:01
Speaker 1: Of sniper work. Did you ever use hand and arm signals?
1:35:04
Speaker 2: I used hand and arm signals every single time on
1:35:07
Speaker 2: every detail, everywhere I went. And one of the rumors was, oh,
1:35:13
Speaker 2: he's got the ball cap. He did the ball cap wiggle.
1:35:15
Speaker 2: That's the Marine Corps sniper. I've done a lot of
1:35:18
Speaker 2: sniper operations.
1:35:21
Speaker 1: Nobody wears ball caps. So that was my lead question.
1:35:26
Speaker 1: You ever use hand signals? And it's like, yes. Yes.
1:35:29
Speaker 1: Were your hands– And you had.
1:35:31
Speaker 2: Already established– I'm going to cover for you here because
1:35:35
Speaker 2: this is a rumor that I just fucking hate.
1:35:38
Speaker 1: I know.
1:35:39
Speaker 2: Because that is what it takes. You can't be on
1:35:42
Speaker 2: the radio all the time because you're tying the net up.
1:35:45
Speaker 2: We had already established that you had other security professionals
1:35:50
Speaker 2: within the crowd that you're trying to communicate with, and that's.
1:35:54
Speaker 1: How you do it. That is how you do it. Well,
1:35:57
Speaker 1: I'll speak to this one. You're using hand signals, or
1:36:00
Speaker 1: if you were to use hand signals, and those are
1:36:03
Speaker 1: an option, especially like under MBG or things like that. One,
1:36:09
Speaker 1: are those hand signals normal ones that you would see
1:36:12
Speaker 1: during normal gesticulation? Are those definitive hand signals? They're definitive
1:36:17
Speaker 1: so that they can't be confused with a guy scratching
1:36:20
Speaker 1: his ass. And so that's the first one. The second
1:36:25
Speaker 1: one is, That hand signal, when a bubble team is there,
1:36:30
Speaker 1: we're not using hand signals. Sniper details, absolutely.
1:36:34
Speaker 2: Why?
1:36:35
Speaker 1: Because you can see that. Are we looking around at
1:36:39
Speaker 1: each other looking for hand signals? We're looking in the
1:36:42
Speaker 1: front in our area of responsibility. If we needed to
1:36:45
Speaker 1: relay a message, then we would, hey, right here on comms.
1:36:50
Speaker 1: And or we're notorious for, if I need to get
1:36:54
Speaker 1: somebody's attention on the team, I'm not going to sit
1:36:57
Speaker 1: there and use a hand signal if he's in my
1:36:58
Speaker 1: line of sight. I'm just going to go like that.
1:37:00
Speaker 1: He's going to look up and I'm going to go.
1:37:04
Speaker 1: And so if I looked up and did a hand
1:37:07
Speaker 1: signal on the team and did that or that, he's
1:37:10
Speaker 1: going to look at me like, so what do you
1:37:11
Speaker 1: want me to do then? So for that, that's not
1:37:16
Speaker 1: good communication. It has to be definitive. It has to
1:37:20
Speaker 1: be necessary.
1:37:21
Speaker 2: It could be an acknowledgement.
1:37:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yep. Get me out of here.
1:37:27
Speaker 2: Yep.
1:37:28
Speaker 1: You're right. Absolutely. Yeah. And what you're doing there is deliberate. Yeah.
1:37:34
Speaker 1: These are deliberate.
1:37:35
Speaker 2: You know?
1:37:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, no, we don't use hand signals on that one.
1:37:40
Speaker 1: We didn't use hand signals that day. We've never used
1:37:43
Speaker 1: hand signals other than the general ones. Here. Two people.
1:37:51
Speaker 2: Here.
1:37:52
Speaker 1: You know? None of that was done. None of that
1:37:55
Speaker 1: was done. You had Frank Turek and people messing with
1:37:58
Speaker 1: him because he adjusted his hat. It's like, okay, substantiate.
1:38:04
Speaker 1: All right, so he touched his hat. There were a
1:38:09
Speaker 1: line of people in the front and all the other
1:38:11
Speaker 1: people that also did all kinds of things before that.
1:38:14
Speaker 1: It's like everybody's subject to that. I get it. Man,
1:38:21
Speaker 1: I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but I do believe
1:38:25
Speaker 1: that there are things out there bigger than you and
1:38:28
Speaker 1: I that are in operations. It's a fact. I also
1:38:32
Speaker 1: am a huge believer in the First Amendment. And so
1:38:38
Speaker 1: these people that are out there saying all this, back up,
1:38:43
Speaker 1: why is the First Amendment so, so important? Because back
1:38:47
Speaker 1: in the day when our forefathers founding fathers said, men,
1:38:52
Speaker 1: why do we need this amendment first? And because a
1:38:54
Speaker 1: voice is an arms for people that don't have arms.
1:38:59
Speaker 1: That's what it was for. It was a collective or
1:39:04
Speaker 1: a single voice could be powerful to a hierarchy of
1:39:08
Speaker 1: people that can't be conquered with an arm. So we
1:39:10
Speaker 1: have to have this voice and we have to protect
1:39:13
Speaker 1: this voice at all costs. And they said, and they
1:39:16
Speaker 1: wanted us to have that. And that's why they put
1:39:19
Speaker 1: it first. And it should be used as a shield. Well,
1:39:26
Speaker 1: nowadays with the media and now social media, that right
1:39:33
Speaker 1: has been used as a sword and the sword of
1:39:37
Speaker 1: public opinion. It's like, hey, well, let's just put a
1:39:40
Speaker 1: bunch of lies out there and claim First Amendment and
1:39:44
Speaker 1: we can say whatever we want. It's like, when's that stop?
1:39:52
Speaker 1: And literally, whatever you want. You've seen some of the
1:39:56
Speaker 1: idiocy out there. Palm gun, exploding microphone, hand signals. It's like,
1:40:06
Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be true, and it doesn't matter.
1:40:09
Speaker 1: And so you're just using that First Amendment as a
1:40:11
Speaker 1: sword and not a shield. And we've got to step
1:40:15
Speaker 1: back at that and look at it. I was talking
1:40:17
Speaker 1: to your guys earlier and I was like, at some
1:40:19
Speaker 1: point you put those people in the way back machine.
1:40:22
Speaker 1: And the way back machine is you take them to 1985.
1:40:27
Speaker 1: And when people said something that was untrue about you
1:40:31
Speaker 1: or your family, and they said something bad about you
1:40:34
Speaker 1: that other people heard, you split their lip. It was
1:40:39
Speaker 1: a consequence. An immediate consequence. Not a consequence that comes
1:40:43
Speaker 1: through a lawsuit three and a half years later. an
1:40:45
Speaker 1: immediate consequence so that a level of respect is gained.
1:40:50
Speaker 1: And then also, hey, if you do this again, I'll
1:40:52
Speaker 1: see you next time as well. At some point, some
1:40:56
Speaker 1: people need to be put in the wayback machine. Definitely
1:41:00
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with you on that one.
1:41:05
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the immediate response. Let's get back
1:41:11
Speaker 2: to that. Could you tell it was gunfire?
1:41:14
Speaker 1: Yes. How could you tell? I've been around gunfire my
1:41:18
Speaker 1: whole life. That's the first one. And so, and there's
1:41:25
Speaker 1: a different type of gunfire, right? We were at Berkeley
1:41:30
Speaker 1: last night and you heard somebody decided to pop off
1:41:37
Speaker 1: some bunch and they were loud, like six, seven M80s
1:41:40
Speaker 1: at a time. And people started panicking and running. And
1:41:45
Speaker 1: one of my guys, look, I said, that's not gunfire.
1:41:49
Speaker 1: It's a different sound. You have an attribution of sound.
1:41:53
Speaker 1: And so you're used to it. And having a range,
1:42:00
Speaker 1: and so you're around it, and you even get to like, well,
1:42:03
Speaker 1: that was a rifle. That was a pistol. That was
1:42:04
Speaker 1: a big boy rifle. That's subsonic. I mean, you can
1:42:08
Speaker 1: PID all those with your ear. you know, I'm no sniper,
1:42:12
Speaker 1: but you're out there hanging out with those guys and
1:42:14
Speaker 1: you get that sniper's ear pretty quick. Cause they'd say,
1:42:17
Speaker 1: here that that's what that is. And so, um, uh,
1:42:23
Speaker 1: I've got my back to Charlie about, I don't know,
1:42:26
Speaker 1: less than 10 meters off to his right. And, um,
1:42:29
Speaker 1: my area of responsibility, just, we had a big, a
1:42:33
Speaker 1: lot of people coming up some staircases there and it
1:42:36
Speaker 1: was starting to fill in. And, and so I was
1:42:39
Speaker 1: watching that and, uh, um, I remember I heard the
1:42:45
Speaker 1: gunfire and then, I don't know if you've heard this,
1:42:49
Speaker 1: but I heard that bullet slap him. And so you
1:42:54
Speaker 1: hear two sounds actually. And so you hear the actual
1:42:59
Speaker 1: shot and then you hear the bullet hit him in
1:43:00
Speaker 1: the neck, like you hear it. And so in my head,
1:43:04
Speaker 1: I had an attribution to that. Oop, I know what
1:43:06
Speaker 1: that is. And so I turned and when I turned,
1:43:13
Speaker 1: Trey running, that's when Dan grabbed him. And I mean,
1:43:17
Speaker 1: this is a live fire event. It's not, everybody thinks
1:43:20
Speaker 1: in hindsight, well, this is a one-shot assassination. No, in
1:43:24
Speaker 1: our heads, there's fire. You don't know what that is.
1:43:27
Speaker 1: There's fire. There's more to come, right? And so Dan
1:43:35
Speaker 1: grabs Charlie and then- Who's Dan? Dan was the guy
1:43:38
Speaker 1: standing right next to Charlie when he got shot on
1:43:41
Speaker 1: the stage. and then I was to the right of Dan. Okay.
1:43:46
Speaker 1: And so he grabs him, and then I turn and
1:43:51
Speaker 1: see him start to the ground, but then I'm just
1:43:54
Speaker 1: thinking gunfire. And then he's leading to the ground, because
1:43:58
Speaker 1: I'm on his right, where he was shot right here
1:44:00
Speaker 1: in the left of his neck. And so I jump
1:44:04
Speaker 1: down on top of Charlie to cover him, because where
1:44:08
Speaker 1: we're at, it's concealment at best. It's a tabling with
1:44:12
Speaker 1: cloth on it. So it's not hardcover. So, and guys,
1:44:16
Speaker 1: our guys are starting piling back in and they're down
1:44:19
Speaker 1: putting a human shield around him, but it's still just concealment.
1:44:22
Speaker 1: It's not cover. And so I initially dove down on
1:44:26
Speaker 1: top of him and just was on him almost face
1:44:30
Speaker 1: to face. And then when I was doing that, I
1:44:32
Speaker 1: went down, I could see the wound. And so I
1:44:35
Speaker 1: immediately shoved my hand into the wound to stop the bleeding.
1:44:41
Speaker 1: just trying to find the pressure. And it was coming
1:44:44
Speaker 1: out still. And I'm on top of him, like close.
1:44:47
Speaker 1: And it was still coming out enough that I guess
1:44:51
Speaker 1: it squirted through my fingers and I could taste it
1:44:53
Speaker 1: on my lips. And so I was like, man, this
1:44:56
Speaker 1: is a bad wound, right? And so I was just
1:45:02
Speaker 1: pushing that. And I don't know at that time. I
1:45:05
Speaker 1: know when you look at the clock, I was on
1:45:07
Speaker 1: him within five seconds and had my hands in him.
1:45:11
Speaker 1: And then I don't know when I put the first
1:45:14
Speaker 1: piece of medical on him. It was sometime after that.
1:45:19
Speaker 1: Because I carry it right here. And that's why you
1:45:21
Speaker 1: carry it on you. You got to have it there.
1:45:25
Speaker 1: But then I remember pulling back away and thinking, damn,
1:45:32
Speaker 1: this is bad. It's coming out. And I don't remember
1:45:37
Speaker 1: saying this, but the guys told me, and you can
1:45:39
Speaker 1: kind of see it on the video, I said, prep
1:45:42
Speaker 1: the car. And I just prepped, and you see the
1:45:46
Speaker 1: two guys just take off. And that car's prepped in position,
1:45:51
Speaker 1: but what I mean, doors are open, the whole deal.
1:45:55
Speaker 1: And then so we're doing pressure control there, and it's
1:46:01
Speaker 1: a carotid artery, so you can't put a tourniquet on it, obviously.
1:46:04
Speaker 1: And in my head, I'm like, you know, pack pressure, pray, man.
1:46:08
Speaker 1: These are what you can do for that wound. But then,
1:46:11
Speaker 1: so I'm on top. And then I told the guys,
1:46:14
Speaker 1: we got to exfil. We're all out here in the open.
1:46:17
Speaker 1: We're trying to give wound care. And we got to
1:46:21
Speaker 1: get off this ex, right? And so, but I just said,
1:46:25
Speaker 1: we're exfiling. And so we got up, I think it
1:46:28
Speaker 1: was like 15, 16 seconds from the time the shot happened.
1:46:32
Speaker 1: to the time we were picking him up. 15 to
1:46:34
Speaker 1: 16 seconds? That's what it was, yeah. That's fast. And
1:46:40
Speaker 1: this is horrible. But it's fast to get an initial assessment,
1:46:43
Speaker 1: plug a hole, pick him up.
1:46:44
Speaker 2: Move him. Yeah.
1:46:45
Speaker 1: And so it's just like, dang. And there's some horrible
1:46:50
Speaker 1: realities of it, too. I told the guys this, and
1:46:53
Speaker 1: I haven't. You, when I jumped down on him, he
1:47:14
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1:51:44
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, man. Dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine.
1:51:48
Speaker 1: It's mainly the....
1:51:54
Speaker 2: It's going through your head.
1:51:55
Speaker 1: Like I said, I was like, man, this is a
1:51:56
Speaker 1: bad wound. It's not compatible with life. And that's an
1:52:00
Speaker 1: old medical phrase that you use for reporting later. I mean,
1:52:05
Speaker 1: I hate to get graphic, but that's how you do it. Absolutely.
1:52:09
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember the eye thump. There's no movement
1:52:13
Speaker 2: after you thump the eye. It's done.
1:52:16
Speaker 1: Same, same. And so at the time, I mean, I
1:52:19
Speaker 1: broke down just then, but I think in some of
1:52:22
Speaker 1: my close friends had told me. I didn't weep a
1:52:26
Speaker 1: tear after that for like three weeks. Not, you know,
1:52:31
Speaker 1: it's like, hey man. And I was like, yeah, there's
1:52:33
Speaker 1: a time for that. You know, these guys, me, the
1:52:36
Speaker 1: guys I'm with, we've seen a lot of bad effects
1:52:41
Speaker 1: of violence. Messed up kids, guys that stick things into
1:52:45
Speaker 1: kids and just horrible people, right? And you compartmentalize that junk, right?
1:52:50
Speaker 1: so that you can, you got a job to do.
1:52:53
Speaker 1: And then sometimes those things, when you open that box,
1:52:57
Speaker 1: they come out, right? And that was one of them. So,
1:53:03
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure it's good for me at some point.
1:53:06
Speaker 1: But so we get back to that. And so I'm
1:53:10
Speaker 1: down on him. And I don't know if I, when
1:53:15
Speaker 1: it sprayed me in the face, it caused me to
1:53:17
Speaker 1: flinch back or what, but then, Sometime around then, I said, hey,
1:53:20
Speaker 1: prep the car. And you see two of the guys
1:53:22
Speaker 1: just take off towards the car. And then Gibby and
1:53:27
Speaker 1: Rick and Dan and me, I said, hey, let's exfil now.
1:53:34
Speaker 1: And so we get up in the timeline on that.
1:53:37
Speaker 1: It's like 15, 16 seconds, something like that, where you
1:53:39
Speaker 1: can see we're prepping. But the problem is direct pressure.
1:53:44
Speaker 1: So when you're in a medical deal and you've been
1:53:46
Speaker 1: in– I've had these before on major accidents and GSWs
1:53:50
Speaker 1: when you show up on calls is you can't give
1:53:54
Speaker 1: direct pressure and move, right, in exfil. And you have
1:53:58
Speaker 1: to have counters, like giving CPR. You can't give people
1:54:01
Speaker 1: CPR like that. You have to have something. So it's like, okay, well,
1:54:06
Speaker 1: let's just get in the car. You can't.
1:54:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then... You can't apply direct pressure to move
1:54:12
Speaker 2: either because it's the neck and there goes the airway.
1:54:14
Speaker 1: Right. And so.
1:54:15
Speaker 2: And it's just a... It's damn near the worst place.
1:54:18
Speaker 1: And then you don't get first aid when it's raining
1:54:21
Speaker 1: on you still, right? Or this first shot, second shot,
1:54:23
Speaker 1: how many more is coming in? So, you know, and so...
1:54:26
Speaker 1: So I was like, hey, let's just call for Exville.
1:54:29
Speaker 1: So I called for Exville and said, hey, let's go.
1:54:32
Speaker 1: The guys had prepped the car, so we're carrying. We...
1:54:37
Speaker 1: trained officer down i don't know how many times or
1:54:40
Speaker 1: you know person down and we were carrying and you
1:54:43
Speaker 1: can see it on the video rick breaks off at
1:54:45
Speaker 1: the perfect time he goes around to the other side
1:54:48
Speaker 1: jumps in we do the drag don't try to shove
1:54:50
Speaker 1: the guy in half the team pushes in the other
1:54:53
Speaker 1: half team drags from the other side there's no comms
1:54:55
Speaker 1: for that just knew he knew that's what we need
1:54:58
Speaker 1: to do we've done that he's done that we we've
1:55:00
Speaker 1: got careers built on doing that real time and in
1:55:04
Speaker 1: training and so um guys weren't helping. Justin gets in.
1:55:09
Speaker 1: He knows his job's a drive. You know, that's his job.
1:55:12
Speaker 1: Dan jumps in. He knows he's now. And so we're
1:55:15
Speaker 1: back there. Rick, we pull him across. Frank Turek, it
1:55:20
Speaker 1: just jumps in the back. And so he's a known.
1:55:25
Speaker 1: So I was like, yep, it's Frank, but I'm not
1:55:26
Speaker 1: going to fight him on it. Frank's there because Frank's hurting,
1:55:31
Speaker 1: you know. And it's one of those things where you
1:55:34
Speaker 1: have dead kids on calls and you're not supposed to
1:55:36
Speaker 1: let the crime scene be contaminated, but I'm not going
1:55:39
Speaker 1: to deny a parent the ability to come in and
1:55:41
Speaker 1: say goodbye to their child. And Frank's many times said
1:55:45
Speaker 1: that Charlie felt like he was his son. I'm not
1:55:48
Speaker 1: going to deny him that. All this is running. And
1:55:52
Speaker 1: so we get in. Charlie was a big man, long.
1:55:59
Speaker 1: We kind of laugh about it now, but we get
1:56:03
Speaker 1: him in, but the door's not going to close. We
1:56:07
Speaker 1: know that. And I just say, go. And we didn't
1:56:10
Speaker 1: even attempt to close it. I told Justin, go, go, go.
1:56:12
Speaker 1: So he takes off. Dan's already got the route done.
1:56:16
Speaker 1: We know that because we've done it. And so we
1:56:19
Speaker 1: take off in direct action. We get out onto the
1:56:25
Speaker 1: main road. And we're in a slick SUV, no light sirens.
1:56:32
Speaker 1: And so we're breaking our own intersections. We're cutting our
1:56:35
Speaker 1: own traffic. We're doing everything. Ourselves Justin's driving. I mean,
1:56:41
Speaker 1: it's it's he's trained driver I mean, that's what our
1:56:44
Speaker 1: guys go to driving school for just for that. It's expensive.
1:56:47
Speaker 1: It costs a lot It's a need and it paid
1:56:50
Speaker 1: off because he drove it like a champion Dan's up
1:56:54
Speaker 1: in there calling out right lefts where this is next
1:56:58
Speaker 1: turn 20 meter, you know 200 meters left So, you know,
1:57:01
Speaker 1: it's exactly where he's going Rick and I are in
1:57:03
Speaker 1: the back This is where it gets not funny, but
1:57:07
Speaker 1: you look back on it now. Rick pulled Charlie across,
1:57:12
Speaker 1: and then I'm working off my kit. And you always,
1:57:18
Speaker 1: when you build a kit out like that, you build
1:57:20
Speaker 1: it to where the stuff you need the soonest or
1:57:23
Speaker 1: most important is on the outside, right? And so all
1:57:27
Speaker 1: the bleed control is right here in front. So I'm
1:57:29
Speaker 1: just working out of the kit right there. And So
1:57:36
Speaker 1: I'm just, you know, packing, pressure, repack. It gets saturated.
1:57:42
Speaker 1: You don't take it out. You just keep packing on
1:57:44
Speaker 1: top of it. The problem is we're going down the
1:57:46
Speaker 1: road and Charlie's so tall that his leg, his left
1:57:52
Speaker 1: leg is down in the door and the door won't close.
1:57:57
Speaker 1: And so I'm on my knees with the door open
1:58:00
Speaker 1: with my butt hanging out of the side and I'm
1:58:02
Speaker 1: on my knees doing the medical and Justin's driving, you know,
1:58:07
Speaker 1: we're going 60, 80, 100. And Rick has me across
1:58:12
Speaker 1: the kit in my shirt so that I can use
1:58:15
Speaker 1: both hands to do the medical one. So you don't
1:58:20
Speaker 1: fall out of the fucking car. So I don't fall out.
1:58:22
Speaker 2: And I just look at him, and I don't need
1:58:24
Speaker 2: to say, you got me.
1:58:25
Speaker 1: He's got me. I know he's got me. Rick's a brother.
1:58:27
Speaker 1: He's got the tattoos. And so I was like, he's
1:58:30
Speaker 1: got me. And so I'm just working medical. And Frank's
1:58:36
Speaker 1: praying out loud. Rick's praying out loud. Does he have
1:58:40
Speaker 1: a pulse at this point? So. There's no way. In
1:58:47
Speaker 1: a situation like that, I'm not going to stop and
1:58:49
Speaker 1: take notes. I didn't know if somebody else had one. No.
1:58:52
Speaker 1: And so I have SpO2 monitor there. I've got all
1:58:55
Speaker 1: the stuff for it. I could have put it on,
1:58:57
Speaker 1: but it's irrelevant. It's irrelevant to treating that wound, right?
1:59:02
Speaker 1: And so I've got to stop that bleeding. That's my
1:59:05
Speaker 1: primary thing. And so whether he had a pulse then,
1:59:10
Speaker 1: it's unknown. The body's an amazing thing that can do
1:59:15
Speaker 1: things even when it's technically, you know, destroyed. And so
1:59:21
Speaker 1: my concern is bleed control. And so I'm just, Rick's
1:59:25
Speaker 1: got me, Justin's driving, World's coming by, I'm working, I
1:59:32
Speaker 1: end up putting about 36 feet of dressing in him.
1:59:40
Speaker 1: And then four, four by fours and then two hemostatic
1:59:44
Speaker 1: four by fours. And then just pressuring the whole time.
1:59:49
Speaker 1: So you're adding pressure as much as you can get, pressure,
1:59:54
Speaker 1: adding pressure. And so we, or heading to the hospital.
1:59:59
Speaker 1: You know, it's a known, we're heading there, breaking intersections.
2:00:04
Speaker 1: We picked up a tail from PD somewhere along the way.
2:00:09
Speaker 1: And I noticed some audio came out about that. And
2:00:12
Speaker 1: I think they thought it was a secondary person that
2:00:14
Speaker 1: had been shot. You know, but we didn't know if
2:00:19
Speaker 1: it was an active shooter. You know, everybody that says, oh,
2:00:22
Speaker 1: you should have treated him there and not moved him,
2:00:24
Speaker 1: stopped the bleeding. I'm like, well, Yeah, I know. Same way.
2:00:28
Speaker 1: I was like, man, if it... No, that's not... Medicine
2:00:32
Speaker 1: doesn't happen on the X. You know, nothing happens. Somebody
2:00:35
Speaker 1: shoots at you, you get off the X, right? And so....
2:00:39
Speaker 2: And we didn't have cover. Just for anybody that's listening,
2:00:43
Speaker 2: that is rule number one. Law enforcement, military, security, anything.
2:00:49
Speaker 2: Get off the X.
2:00:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. More rounds are coming in. Yeah. And so... We
2:00:57
Speaker 1: get to the hospital. Actually, we make it to the
2:01:00
Speaker 1: hospital through the traffic. We've got full wound pack in.
2:01:04
Speaker 1: We get out and we carry in to the door.
2:01:08
Speaker 1: Once we make it into the door, we see a
2:01:09
Speaker 1: gurney on the left-hand side. We put him on a
2:01:13
Speaker 1: gurney and then I wheel him into a room. I
2:01:16
Speaker 1: start giving the patient information to the staff there. I
2:01:25
Speaker 1: ended up getting on top of him and cutting the
2:01:28
Speaker 1: shirt that he had on off, that white freedom shirt.
2:01:31
Speaker 1: And so I cut it off so they could get
2:01:33
Speaker 1: to him so that, I didn't articulate this to them,
2:01:40
Speaker 1: but I wanted to get that stuff off so they
2:01:42
Speaker 1: could put a defibrillator on him. And then started talking
2:01:49
Speaker 1: about pushing drugs. And so I was back and forth
2:01:52
Speaker 1: with them on drugs and defibrillator. And so then, you know,
2:01:59
Speaker 1: once you get that shirt cut off and moved out
2:02:02
Speaker 1: of the way, you know, there's enough medical professionals in there.
2:02:06
Speaker 1: And so I just want to get out of their way.
2:02:09
Speaker 1: And so I got out of their way and walked
2:02:11
Speaker 1: out of the room and stood outside the room and
2:02:14
Speaker 1: held guard on the outside door of the room so
2:02:17
Speaker 1: nobody else could come in there. Covered in Charlie's blood. Yeah,
2:02:21
Speaker 1: all over my face. My, Rick and I had it
2:02:28
Speaker 1: all over our arms and our, from about here down
2:02:34
Speaker 1: was just covered. And yeah, and it was, yeah, I
2:02:40
Speaker 1: feel bad for the hospital staff because we showed up
2:02:44
Speaker 1: looking like that and they didn't know we were coming,
2:02:49
Speaker 1: even though we had called 911. But I don't know.
2:02:54
Speaker 1: So we show up and guys got blood all over
2:02:56
Speaker 1: their face and carrying a guy with blood solid on
2:03:01
Speaker 1: my pants and shoes. And so then I just stood
2:03:05
Speaker 1: out there. And then finally this lady and I, I
2:03:09
Speaker 1: feel horrible. She came up to me and she said, hey,
2:03:15
Speaker 1: come with me. And she took me in her room
2:03:17
Speaker 1: and physically washed my face and my hands and stuff.
2:03:23
Speaker 1: a nurse that was there at the hospital. So it
2:03:26
Speaker 1: was like, man, what, humanity. Man. So it's, there was a,
2:03:36
Speaker 1: you saw a lot of beautiful things. A lot, a
2:03:39
Speaker 1: lot of beautiful things. Rick was, Rick was there. Same
2:03:45
Speaker 1: thing with him. He's, he's going through the same thing.
2:03:48
Speaker 1: He's covered in it. And, and Justin's there. And, um,
2:03:54
Speaker 1: Dan was there, and everybody's got this look of bewilderment, like, hey.
2:03:59
Speaker 1: And so I told Justin, I said, check on the
2:04:04
Speaker 1: men and call your kids. Because I was worried about them.
2:04:11
Speaker 1: Because when we left, our guys went back into the
2:04:14
Speaker 1: crowd because they didn't know, because everybody was on the ground.
2:04:19
Speaker 1: So those guys that were still there, they went back
2:04:21
Speaker 1: in the crowd searching for other victims. No kidding? Yeah.
2:04:26
Speaker 1: Because they didn't know, because everybody's just laying there, frozen.
2:04:30
Speaker 1: And so once we got out of there, they went
2:04:33
Speaker 1: back in and started searching for other victims and people
2:04:36
Speaker 1: that had been shot. And so I didn't know their status.
2:04:42
Speaker 1: And it was horrible, compoundingly horrible. When I jumped down
2:04:48
Speaker 1: on top of Charlie, my phone came out of... right here.
2:04:54
Speaker 1: And so, of course I just left it. I didn't
2:04:57
Speaker 1: know it came out. So I get to the hospital
2:05:01
Speaker 1: and I don't have the ability to call my children
2:05:07
Speaker 1: and tell them I'm okay or my parents or my fiance.
2:05:12
Speaker 1: And when I travel abroad, in the OCONUS job I do,
2:05:15
Speaker 1: I have a workup and it's all the numbers and
2:05:19
Speaker 1: everything and I had it hidden and so I can call,
2:05:22
Speaker 1: but Conan's job. And I mean, I can still remember
2:05:27
Speaker 1: numbers from when I was in high school with my friends,
2:05:30
Speaker 1: but just don't remember numbers nowadays. And so I couldn't
2:05:36
Speaker 1: call them. And so they're at home just suffering because
2:05:40
Speaker 1: I can't call them. Yeah, man. So, and so I said, man,
2:05:49
Speaker 1: I can do better than that, you know? So finally
2:05:53
Speaker 1: got ahold of my ex-wife and then said, hey, from another,
2:05:57
Speaker 1: somebody else's phone, I think via like Facebook Messenger or something.
2:06:03
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, but it was like, hey,
2:06:04
Speaker 1: we'll figure this out. And then said, hey, I'm gonna call,
2:06:11
Speaker 1: answer the phone. And my daughter answered the phone and
2:06:14
Speaker 1: she had already gone to her house waiting to hear something.
2:06:19
Speaker 1: And so there's always a concern in her voice. But
2:06:24
Speaker 1: I said, hey, I'm good. I'm fine. I'll call you
2:06:28
Speaker 1: when I get a chance.
2:06:29
Speaker 2: And so I started asking for check-ins for the guys
2:06:33
Speaker 2: who were still at the scene.
2:06:34
Speaker 1: Like, hey, everybody okay? Read me in. We have other victims.
2:06:39
Speaker 1: What's going on? And they got retasked. That same chief
2:06:43
Speaker 1: of police came out and said, hey, y'all hold this
2:06:46
Speaker 1: crime scene and help us look for other clues. And
2:06:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a no-no, but they did it. And
2:06:57
Speaker 1: so they were back there and then they were just
2:07:01
Speaker 1: trying to figure things out. And they were there for
2:07:04
Speaker 1: a while. Man.
2:07:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:07:07
Speaker 1: So it was chaotic, but you find Chaotic situations, you
2:07:13
Speaker 1: find ways to control it inside that situation, right? And
2:07:19
Speaker 1: they did a good job at that.
2:07:22
Speaker 2: You know, there's been a lot of rumors going around
2:07:25
Speaker 2: about there was no autopsy, none of that. Was there
2:07:30
Speaker 2: an autopsy?
2:07:30
Speaker 1: There was, and I can speak to that. Personally, I
2:07:34
Speaker 1: can speak to that. One, for those people saying that,
2:07:38
Speaker 1: do a FOIA. Do a FOIA to the medical examiner's
2:07:43
Speaker 1: office to Utah County. Get off your lazy ass and
2:07:46
Speaker 1: do a FOIA. They may not give you the autopsy
2:07:50
Speaker 1: information right now, but they'll certainly tell you, yeah, there's
2:07:52
Speaker 1: an autopsy. That's the first one. The second one was...
2:07:56
Speaker 1: the OR doc. Well, your question earlier about a pulse.
2:08:04
Speaker 1: We'll get back to that. And so they ended up
2:08:08
Speaker 1: working him in the room, and they ended up taking
2:08:11
Speaker 1: him to the OR because they got a pulse. They
2:08:15
Speaker 1: did get a pulse?
2:08:15
Speaker 2: They did get a pulse.
2:08:17
Speaker 1: But Charlie was a healthy man. He was very cognizant
2:08:23
Speaker 1: of his health and he was a strong guy. They've
2:08:26
Speaker 1: had a pulse. But how, hold on. How long had
2:08:30
Speaker 1: it been since the shot to the hospital? I have
2:08:33
Speaker 1: no idea.
2:08:34
Speaker 2: I mean, that is a jugular shot. You can be dead.
2:08:40
Speaker 1: Central nervous system, you got a strong heart, right? And
2:08:43
Speaker 1: that's what the OR doc told me. Okay. He said
2:08:46
Speaker 1: that's what it was. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah.
2:08:49
Speaker 2: And so- I have no way of, I'm not a doctor.
2:08:53
Speaker 2: I just know what he told me, you know?
2:08:55
Speaker 1: And so.
2:08:58
Speaker 2: We go to that and I'm sorry, what was your
2:09:01
Speaker 2: question again?
2:09:04
Speaker 1: We were talking about the autopsy. Oh, the autopsy. And
2:09:06
Speaker 1: so once they came down and said he didn't make
2:09:13
Speaker 1: it and he talked about, He said, if he'd have
2:09:20
Speaker 1: been shot in the OR, I wouldn't have been able
2:09:23
Speaker 1: to save him. And I was like, I mean, he's
2:09:27
Speaker 1: just kind of confirming things that I already knew. And
2:09:31
Speaker 1: so I don't know how long, well, I don't know
2:09:35
Speaker 1: what the timeline was, but I want to say, I
2:09:39
Speaker 1: can't remember who it was, but I knew. I was like,
2:09:42
Speaker 1: we're not going to turn this into some JFK thing.
2:09:46
Speaker 1: And I specifically asked one of the doctors, I don't know,
2:09:50
Speaker 1: I remember what she looked like, dark skin, like dark hair,
2:09:56
Speaker 1: probably 35, 40 years old. I said, how long until
2:09:58
Speaker 1: we can get an autopsy? And I remember her saying
2:10:01
Speaker 1: a day, a day and a half. And I was like, ugh.
2:10:05
Speaker 1: And so, I mean, she's the boss of that. That's
2:10:08
Speaker 1: just information. And so I remember... I was like, man,
2:10:15
Speaker 1: that's a long time. We need to get this autopsy
2:10:20
Speaker 1: done and done right so that there's not some conspiracy.
2:10:23
Speaker 1: I mean, you're starting to think forward to that. And
2:10:27
Speaker 1: so I remember I was standing next to the chief
2:10:30
Speaker 1: of staff and the vice president called. And the vice
2:10:33
Speaker 1: president asked him, what do you need? And he looked
2:10:38
Speaker 1: at me and said, what do we need? And I said,
2:10:40
Speaker 1: we need an autopsy now. So for these people that
2:10:46
Speaker 1: are saying there wasn't one done, go away. It was done.
2:10:53
Speaker 1: It was done. Do a FOIA. Yeah. Get the report
2:10:58
Speaker 1: when it comes out. It was done. It was done. Yeah.
2:11:05
Speaker 1: And the... the OR doc released statements regarding, and there
2:11:14
Speaker 1: has been statements regarding the bullet and the travel. Oh,
2:11:18
Speaker 1: there should have been a blowout. And I was like,
2:11:20
Speaker 1: there wasn't an exit wound. There wasn't one. I was
2:11:24
Speaker 1: checking for that in the ride. Yeah. And so people
2:11:30
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, it's completely impossible. And I was like, man,
2:11:33
Speaker 1: I've seen bullets do weirder things on people. And so
2:11:37
Speaker 1: all I know is what I saw. There wasn't an
2:11:40
Speaker 1: exit wound. And so I know there was an autopsy done. One,
2:11:46
Speaker 1: because we requested it. They were there. And the second
2:11:53
Speaker 1: one was the local SO, and I believe it was
2:11:58
Speaker 1: the state police, they did the body transfer that night
2:12:05
Speaker 1: through either ME's office or funeral home to the ME
2:12:11
Speaker 1: that night. and took them there. So for them to
2:12:18
Speaker 1: say that somebody broke the rules or turning point didn't
2:12:22
Speaker 1: follow the rules, that's lies. It's conjecture and it's lies.
2:12:26
Speaker 1: All that's people is when people look at themselves. Yeah,
2:12:29
Speaker 1: it happened. Do you think that the entry wound looked
2:12:35
Speaker 1: like an exit wound? No, it was an entry wound.
2:12:39
Speaker 1: Why do you say that? So one, there wasn't an
2:12:42
Speaker 1: exit wound because I remember rolling his head over and
2:12:46
Speaker 1: cleaning it so I could see if there was an
2:12:48
Speaker 1: exit wound. And then I was.
2:12:52
Speaker 2: Having to open the wound up some to get more
2:12:56
Speaker 2: and pack it.
2:12:59
Speaker 1: If you've ever done an exit wound, it's not that hard.
2:13:03
Speaker 1: It's a lot bigger. Mm-hmm. And so you can feel
2:13:07
Speaker 1: it when you're, you know, the rule of kind of
2:13:10
Speaker 1: dumb on that one is you don't want to make
2:13:11
Speaker 1: it bigger, but you've got to keep packing it in there.
2:13:16
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I've heard and seen them all. Like
2:13:23
Speaker 1: there was a guy that said, you know, that the
2:13:25
Speaker 1: mic blew up and it was a bomb.
2:13:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were, I was going to wait. Yeah, there
2:13:32
Speaker 2: is a guy online that is saying that the mic
2:13:35
Speaker 2: that the microphone may have had some type of explosive
2:13:38
Speaker 2: projectile inside of it.
2:13:40
Speaker 1: So it wrapped around the neck and created a hole?
2:13:43
Speaker 2: That's the thing that I couldn't... I just couldn't wrap
2:13:46
Speaker 2: my head around either, is the accuracy that would have
2:13:50
Speaker 2: to take place from an explosion to actually get you
2:13:52
Speaker 2: in the neck. But then other people are saying that
2:13:55
Speaker 2: there was maybe... that maybe the explosion killed him. In fact,
2:13:59
Speaker 2: there's actually some... some camera footage that somebody has done
2:14:04
Speaker 2: some type of assessment on, but I mean, you cut
2:14:07
Speaker 2: his shirt off. Did you see any burn marks? Did
2:14:11
Speaker 2: you see any indication of any type of explosion? Back
2:14:16
Speaker 2: it up even further to that, you've been around explosives
2:14:18
Speaker 2: and shaped explosives and stuff like that. What do you
2:14:22
Speaker 2: have when you have that? They had that down to
2:14:24
Speaker 2: like frames, right? Where was the flash?
2:14:30
Speaker 1: If that was an explosion, where was the flash? You
2:14:32
Speaker 1: have oxygen exchange to create the explosion. Where was the flash?
2:14:35
Speaker 1: Where was the char? It didn't exist. Do you know
2:14:44
Speaker 1: if his equipment is assessed before it's put on? Yeah,
2:14:50
Speaker 1: it's actually held up there. That company that is a contract,
2:14:54
Speaker 1: subcontracting company for him, they hold that all up there because,
2:14:57
Speaker 1: you know, They're around it, almost guarding it because people
2:15:01
Speaker 1: will steal it. And it's inside the non-permeable zone. So
2:15:07
Speaker 1: nobody has access to it. It's set up in there.
2:15:10
Speaker 1: Even the boxes are kept in there. And so it's
2:15:13
Speaker 1: inside that. And so it's on them. And then you
2:15:16
Speaker 1: can see they walk up and actually pin it on him.
2:15:19
Speaker 1: So that system is integratized also. And again, that's a reach.
2:15:27
Speaker 1: Go all the way back to Where's the explosion? You
2:15:30
Speaker 1: got frame by frame.
2:15:34
Speaker 2: You know, when that theory came out, I mean, I
2:15:39
Speaker 2: don't think it's necessarily out of the question.
2:15:41
Speaker 1: I mean, we know about the pagers. Absolutely.
2:15:44
Speaker 2: But, you know, I mean, the way I looked at
2:15:47
Speaker 2: it was he was wearing a loose-fitting T-shirt that had a,
2:15:53
Speaker 2: I believe, the road mic with the magnet, you know.
2:15:55
Speaker 1: Strapped onto his shirt. On the other side. Yeah. From
2:15:59
Speaker 1: the world. He's moving around.
2:16:01
Speaker 2: And so that, you know, that microphone, if it was
2:16:03
Speaker 2: a projectile, it would have had to have been pointed
2:16:05
Speaker 2: at the exact same spot, which would have been impossible
2:16:08
Speaker 2: to do with a loose shirt.
2:16:10
Speaker 1: Right.
2:16:10
Speaker 2: You know, and so, and then the, I mean, there
2:16:16
Speaker 2: would have been an entry wound. It wouldn't have gone
2:16:19
Speaker 2: to the other side of the neck, you know, but,
2:16:21
Speaker 2: and then, you know, there was a, oh, well, it
2:16:24
Speaker 2: was a trigger man, you know, with a device to
2:16:27
Speaker 2: initiate the blast. And it's, but still though, I mean,
2:16:31
Speaker 2: to have him moving around like this and his shirt,
2:16:34
Speaker 2: his loose shirt to have a piece of weight while
2:16:36
Speaker 2: he's moving around. I mean, you just, you could not.
2:16:42
Speaker 1: Probability.
2:16:42
Speaker 2: It would be a coincidence for it to actually happen
2:16:44
Speaker 2: the way that it did.
2:16:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:16:46
Speaker 2: It would be a coincidence. It would not be, I
2:16:49
Speaker 2: don't think you could chalk that up to skill. Unless,
2:16:52
Speaker 2: unless the explosion is what killed him. But what you're
2:16:58
Speaker 2: saying is. No flash, no blast.
2:17:01
Speaker 1: No char. No char, no burn marks, no nothing.
2:17:04
Speaker 2: And that's a real-time- You cut the shirt off, you
2:17:07
Speaker 2: would have seen it.
2:17:08
Speaker 1: That's a real-time see, too. You know, you've seen explosions.
2:17:11
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of explosions. And so you have
2:17:14
Speaker 1: those attributions. Where's the attribution to the explosion inside those frames?
2:17:19
Speaker 1: If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. Don't try to pull,
2:17:23
Speaker 1: make something into nothing. And so I'm not saying that
2:17:27
Speaker 1: we shouldn't look at things by all means. Yeah, we should.
2:17:29
Speaker 1: I mean, we look at people in press and in history,
2:17:34
Speaker 1: the United States, how valuable they've been. And I applaud
2:17:39
Speaker 1: these guys that are out there humping and working to
2:17:41
Speaker 1: want to have the truth. But don't say you're searching
2:17:44
Speaker 1: for the truth when you're lying to get it. And
2:17:47
Speaker 1: that's what's happening because you're not searching for the truth.
2:17:49
Speaker 1: You're searching for clicks.
2:17:52
Speaker 2: I think that the people posting these, I don't know.
2:17:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I have mixed feelings. I think some people
2:17:59
Speaker 2: are legitimately just trying to figure it out. I think
2:18:02
Speaker 2: that there are other people that are very obviously making
2:18:06
Speaker 2: a living off off of sensationalizing this. But, you know,
2:18:12
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we live in a time where people,
2:18:17
Speaker 2: including myself, don't know where to find the truth. They
2:18:21
Speaker 2: don't know who to believe. They are starting not to
2:18:25
Speaker 2: even believe their own eyes.
2:18:26
Speaker 1: And do you blame them? No, I don't. No, I don't.
2:18:29
Speaker 1: Me neither. I don't. I don't.
2:18:31
Speaker 2: We have zero faith in any of these institutions. You
2:18:34
Speaker 2: think about this.
2:18:35
Speaker 1: There is a guy out there, and he has a
2:18:37
Speaker 1: company called Paramount Tactical, and his name's Gary. Gary took
2:18:42
Speaker 1: an ass whipping online because he went out there and said,
2:18:44
Speaker 1: and he, he did exactly what we're talking about right now.
2:18:47
Speaker 1: And people whipped his ass for telling the truth because
2:18:51
Speaker 1: he bucked the system. He said, now look at this.
2:18:55
Speaker 1: And he broke it down from a professional standpoint because
2:18:57
Speaker 1: he has a background in it and a probability standpoint. And,
2:19:01
Speaker 1: and man, and I hadn't talked to him and he
2:19:03
Speaker 1: was like 95% right. Even on the medical stuff. And
2:19:08
Speaker 1: it's like, but then he took, ass whipping online for it.
2:19:12
Speaker 1: And I sat and watched it from afar. And it's like,
2:19:14
Speaker 1: so people get chastised for telling the truth. And then
2:19:19
Speaker 1: you've got, like you said, who do you believe? I mean,
2:19:22
Speaker 1: our media, they big, big poll. They polled our people
2:19:27
Speaker 1: in the United States. And how many of you believe
2:19:29
Speaker 1: the media? And it said 70% of them don't believe
2:19:31
Speaker 1: a word that comes out of the media's mouth. And
2:19:34
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, let's look at this. If a baker
2:19:37
Speaker 1: makes bread every day, And 70% of his product tastes
2:19:41
Speaker 1: like crap. How long is he going to be in business?
2:19:44
Speaker 1: And then why do we keep letting these people be
2:19:46
Speaker 1: in business? And then, so that's the big media. You
2:19:50
Speaker 1: think that's worse online? And then who's to blame? The
2:19:54
Speaker 1: idiot that's lying or the big Facebooks, Instagrams, and exes
2:20:01
Speaker 1: that are making money off them lying? And then they're
2:20:03
Speaker 1: monetizing the lie too. It's kind of like back in
2:20:06
Speaker 1: the day, you had the National Enquirer that made money offline.
2:20:11
Speaker 1: They sold the little cheap papers. All these guys are,
2:20:15
Speaker 1: and these things are our version of the National Enquirer,
2:20:17
Speaker 1: and they're monetizing that lie. And I said, man, guys,
2:20:22
Speaker 1: you're losing value of how important that is. You could
2:20:27
Speaker 1: be the Watergate guy that breaks the truth, but you're
2:20:31
Speaker 1: taking that away from people. Be the one that tells
2:20:36
Speaker 1: the truth. Be the paramount tactical eye that's willing to
2:20:41
Speaker 1: take a whipping to tell the truth.
2:20:44
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I've talked about this a lot recently, but,
2:20:50
Speaker 2: you know, I think you have to be willing to
2:20:53
Speaker 2: poke holes in your own story. You can poke holes
2:20:56
Speaker 2: in everybody else's story, and that's fine. But you also
2:21:00
Speaker 2: have to be willing to poke holes in your own story.
2:21:02
Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it.
2:21:03
Speaker 2: You know, you should be poking holes in your own story.
2:21:06
Speaker 2: If you are really a truth seeker, You should be
2:21:09
Speaker 2: poking holes in your own story along with everybody else's.
2:21:14
Speaker 1: But where's the oversight to do that? It's gone.
2:21:19
Speaker 2: Put a couple guys in the wayback machine and you
2:21:21
Speaker 2: make it down quick.
2:21:22
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true.
2:21:26
Speaker 2: You know, you were something that I forgot to bring
2:21:29
Speaker 2: up with the hand and arm signal type stuff is
2:21:33
Speaker 2: that it looked, you know, there was a lot of
2:21:35
Speaker 2: chatter on the internet that you You took, I believe
2:21:39
Speaker 2: it was a female that handed you something.
2:21:43
Speaker 1: Handed me something? On camera. I believe it was you.
2:21:46
Speaker 1: Did anybody hand you anything? No, no. The only thing
2:21:51
Speaker 1: that I did, I remember before Charlie was shot, in
2:21:55
Speaker 1: my area, I saw a little American flag on the ground.
2:21:59
Speaker 1: And people were just walking around it like it was nothing.
2:22:02
Speaker 1: And I just walked over and picked it up and
2:22:04
Speaker 1: put it in my pocket. And... That's the only thing that,
2:22:10
Speaker 1: you know, nothing. There was some stuff about the guys
2:22:14
Speaker 1: that said that, and the FBI called on that. Like, hey,
2:22:19
Speaker 1: I forget which one. You can see one of them
2:22:21
Speaker 1: do a hand motion to another. Did you hand something off?
2:22:24
Speaker 1: And they were like, no, there wasn't a hand off.
2:22:26
Speaker 1: There wasn't a key exchange. Gibby reached back here at
2:22:30
Speaker 1: one point and like adjusted his radio because when he
2:22:33
Speaker 1: jumped over the table, you know, it partially came loose
2:22:36
Speaker 1: or something, but And I asked all the guys, did
2:22:39
Speaker 1: you guys exchange anything? And they're like, no. And you
2:22:42
Speaker 1: can break down the video. Break it down to the
2:22:44
Speaker 1: point where you're saying that you saw their hands. What
2:22:47
Speaker 1: got exchanged? There's nothing that got exchanged.
2:22:51
Speaker 2: Is there a, do we have that footage, Jeremy? Could
2:22:56
Speaker 2: you pull that up real quick?
2:22:58
Speaker 1: There it is. That's Chrissy. Those are mitts. That's Chrissy.
2:23:04
Speaker 1: She works there? She works there. Those are mints. Okay. Yeah,
2:23:07
Speaker 1: I put them in my pocket. She walks around and
2:23:11
Speaker 1: hands out. She's an angel.
2:23:15
Speaker 2: She takes care of us. She makes sure that we're hydrated.
2:23:19
Speaker 2: She buys.
2:23:23
Speaker 1: The stuff to put in the sodium. Electrolytes. Electrolytes to
2:23:27
Speaker 1: put in the drinks. She walks around and gives us mints,
2:23:30
Speaker 1: checks on us. Her husband, Angel, does the same thing.
2:23:33
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, that's who that is. Yeah, not uncommon. Yeah.
2:23:39
Speaker 1: There was a.
2:23:41
Speaker 2: Man on the team who, after he was shot, I
2:23:47
Speaker 2: believe he was on the security team, runs towards the vehicles,
2:23:53
Speaker 2: hangs out outside the vehicles and takes, I believe it
2:23:55
Speaker 2: was a TikTok selfie video. Do you know who this is?
2:24:00
Speaker 2: Can you pull this up, Jeremy?
2:24:02
Speaker 1: Is it the one where he said Charlie just got shot? Yeah. Yeah,
2:24:05
Speaker 1: he's with the audio-visual team. Yeah, it's a company that
2:24:09
Speaker 1: they contract to shoot the footage. It's also the one,
2:24:17
Speaker 1: he's the guy that went up and... There he is
2:24:19
Speaker 1: right here.
2:24:20
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. They just shot Charlie.
2:24:23
Speaker 1: They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie. They just
2:24:31
Speaker 1: shot Charlie. I couldn't tell you. He's the one that,
2:24:36
Speaker 1: if you see him, he's the one that's running the cameras. Okay. Yeah,
2:24:40
Speaker 1: he's the audio-visual team guy that's running the cameras. He's
2:24:42
Speaker 1: also the one that they said that he was hiding
2:24:45
Speaker 1: footage or whatever, that he turned over all that footage
2:24:48
Speaker 1: to the FBI. So he did.
2:24:53
Speaker 2: So this is also the guy that, or was that
2:24:57
Speaker 2: a security guy? If you look after the event, somebody
2:24:59
Speaker 2: goes to the camera that was behind Charlie. Pulls the
2:25:03
Speaker 2: camera down.
2:25:03
Speaker 1: Same guy. Looks like he pulls the SD card out.
2:25:06
Speaker 1: Same guy. And that footage is in the hands of
2:25:09
Speaker 1: the FBI. Correct. Wasn't deleted, wasn't erased. He actually works
2:25:14
Speaker 1: for the company called VI. And they do their contract
2:25:20
Speaker 1: AV video people. And he's not a security guy. He
2:25:23
Speaker 1: works for the security and the VI, the video companies. Okay. Yeah.
2:25:30
Speaker 1: And so... I don't understand, and it's not for me
2:25:36
Speaker 1: to try to understand that part, like the getting on
2:25:41
Speaker 1: the phone or that. I don't understand that. And you
2:25:45
Speaker 1: see that a lot nowadays. Tragic things happen, shootouts, and
2:25:48
Speaker 1: people pull their phones out instead of running. And so
2:25:51
Speaker 1: I don't understand that. That's for him to explain, not me.
2:25:56
Speaker 1: I know he doesn't work for us, but I also
2:25:59
Speaker 1: know from seeing some of the stuff that... he's the
2:26:02
Speaker 1: same guy that took down the cameras and people are like,
2:26:05
Speaker 1: what's going on here? And I'm like, well, that's a
2:26:08
Speaker 1: legitimate ask. That's a legitimate ask. I think that too.
2:26:11
Speaker 1: I don't think that's... That's a legitimate ask. And where
2:26:14
Speaker 1: did that go? And he was interviewed and asked and
2:26:19
Speaker 1: answered an FBI and that was all turned over because
2:26:21
Speaker 1: I asked that question. These are the.
2:26:30
Speaker 2: Questions that are running rampant on the internet by the way,
2:26:33
Speaker 2: so here's just gonna do no no quickfire here Did
2:26:37
Speaker 2: you see any signs of internal leaks or betrayals within
2:26:41
Speaker 2: TP USA or secure or the security team that could
2:26:45
Speaker 2: have facilitated the attack?
2:26:47
Speaker 1: No No, I Don't and here's my deal. That's our job, right?
2:26:53
Speaker 1: and so if they're if they have some stuff going
2:26:57
Speaker 1: on inside corporate headquarters and That would be unknown to
2:27:01
Speaker 1: us anyway, and then where the contractor It's security contractor,
2:27:06
Speaker 1: which is our team and then so that direction comes
2:27:10
Speaker 1: from Dan and then it comes to us and Nothing
2:27:14
Speaker 1: nothing that would make me believe that hey something's afoot
2:27:19
Speaker 1: here so Sometimes I wish no not wish it's like
2:27:26
Speaker 1: hey if that was happened that would be an easier
2:27:29
Speaker 1: attribution of But I would say this. Hey, if you're
2:27:32
Speaker 1: going to make that claim, you better be able to
2:27:34
Speaker 1: back it up with the truth. Because we're talking about
2:27:37
Speaker 1: allegations that you're making that people... are conspiracy or part
2:27:41
Speaker 1: of a murder. We're not talking about cheating in a
2:27:45
Speaker 1: video game or handing cards. And so if somebody were
2:27:52
Speaker 1: to say one of my guys or an employee, hey,
2:27:56
Speaker 1: you were part of this murder and you helped conspire,
2:27:59
Speaker 1: then I would say, I need you to tell me
2:28:02
Speaker 1: why you said that right now. A definitive why not now. Not, hmm,
2:28:06
Speaker 1: it's a possibility. Yeah. And if you do, let me
2:28:10
Speaker 1: hear it. But it better be the truth. And if
2:28:13
Speaker 1: it's not, there's consequence. Yeah. And so, and that's why
2:28:22
Speaker 1: there's punishments for stuff like that involved. Do I have
2:28:25
Speaker 1: faith in the system? I've seen a lot of guilty
2:28:28
Speaker 1: people walk free. because they had money, right? And so
2:28:34
Speaker 1: I know the system is broken, but you've been around
2:28:37
Speaker 1: the world. Man, every time I come home from someplace bad,
2:28:45
Speaker 1: I'm like, dang, we got it good. Yeah. And so, no,
2:28:48
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything to make it lead that that
2:28:53
Speaker 1: came from the inside.
2:28:54
Speaker 2: Oh, God.
2:28:58
Speaker 1: Why do you.
2:28:59
Speaker 2: Believe that the security footage has not been released publicly?
2:29:04
Speaker 1: Well... Obviously, the FBI is in control of the evidence.
2:29:10
Speaker 1: And I'm with them on that. You are? Absolutely. Absolutely.
2:29:15
Speaker 1: I'm with them on that. Man, that video footage, or
2:29:21
Speaker 1: really good video footage, is the truth. Or as close
2:29:26
Speaker 1: as we have. And so they came back with that
2:29:30
Speaker 1: gag order.
2:29:32
Speaker 2: To the counsel.
2:29:34
Speaker 1: So they can information share it because the judge said
2:29:36
Speaker 1: there's a volume of evidence, right? A volumous, I think
2:29:40
Speaker 1: is what he said. And I'm like, okay, because we
2:29:42
Speaker 1: want to protect his right to a fair trial and
2:29:46
Speaker 1: we don't want to taint a potential jury. Okay, I
2:29:52
Speaker 1: get that. But is there not a balance to that?
2:29:59
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not asking you to produce the footage,
2:30:01
Speaker 1: but maybe give us something that we investigated this claim
2:30:06
Speaker 1: and then we found this and make them put their
2:30:09
Speaker 1: name on that. I'm with them on that. Give us
2:30:12
Speaker 1: some information. It's like you go to public information officer
2:30:16
Speaker 1: school to be a cop and they tell you, hey,
2:30:19
Speaker 1: don't go out there and go, this happened. We'll let
2:30:22
Speaker 1: you know when we figure it out. Because then you're
2:30:24
Speaker 1: just like, well, are you capable? Do you know what
2:30:27
Speaker 1: you're doing? Are you hiding something from us? So what
2:30:31
Speaker 1: do you do? You go out there, even if you
2:30:33
Speaker 1: can't release the details of it, you go, hey, this happened.
2:30:37
Speaker 1: We heard this and this is attribution that makes us
2:30:40
Speaker 1: lead to believe that it was a directed crime and
2:30:42
Speaker 1: not a random crime. So what you're doing is you're
2:30:45
Speaker 1: letting people, okay, this is starting to make sense. Give
2:30:49
Speaker 1: us something. Give us something.
2:30:52
Speaker 2: I mean, this just comes from institutions hiding.
2:30:59
Speaker 1: And has it happened?
2:31:01
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, maybe had they, I don't know,
2:31:05
Speaker 2: released the Epstein files, maybe there would be a little
2:31:08
Speaker 2: bit of trust in the institution.
2:31:09
Speaker 1: Brother, I could go on for a long time about that.
2:31:19
Speaker 1: It needs to be released. Yeah. Charlie wanted it released.
2:31:25
Speaker 1: That's not my opinion. Yeah. Watch the videos. Yeah. Release them. Yeah.
2:31:33
Speaker 2: That wasn't, my point wasn't, you know, I mean, I
2:31:35
Speaker 2: want them to release them too. My point wasn't getting
2:31:38
Speaker 2: into it. I'm just saying like, this is, this is
2:31:42
Speaker 2: the shit that causes distrust in the institutions.
2:31:47
Speaker 1: Of all institutions.
2:31:48
Speaker 2: And it gets worse and it gets worse and it
2:31:51
Speaker 2: gets worse. And if you want to rebuild the fucking
2:31:53
Speaker 2: trust in the institutions, then you open up transparency and,
2:31:57
Speaker 2: and you stop fucking hiding shit from the American people.
2:32:00
Speaker 1: 100%.
2:32:00
Speaker 2: That's how the fuck you do it. This isn't rocket science.
2:32:04
Speaker 2: This isn't fucking brain surgery. This is just.
2:32:10
Speaker 1: Transparency. That's it. I've got a team here that are done,
2:32:17
Speaker 1: and if you had opened that up, and if you
2:32:19
Speaker 1: had opened that up at least a little bit, six, eight,
2:32:23
Speaker 1: nine weeks ago, these guys wouldn't have been suffered. We've
2:32:25
Speaker 1: been doxxed. Our credit cards have been stolen. Our children's
2:32:30
Speaker 1: and parents' names have been released online. Wedding plans, home addresses,
2:32:35
Speaker 1: phone numbers. It's like, throw us a bone. Yeah. Don't
2:32:42
Speaker 1: let us sit out here and suffer for you when
2:32:44
Speaker 1: all you got to do is produce something to quench
2:32:46
Speaker 1: the thirst of these people. And you're right. You're creating distrust. Yeah.
2:32:52
Speaker 1: And you're hiding behind, well, we have to make sure
2:32:54
Speaker 1: and ensure that we don't cane a jury for this guy.
2:32:58
Speaker 1: And I have questions about that too. And so I
2:33:00
Speaker 1: have questions about that. And we talked about that earlier.
2:33:04
Speaker 1: Where's his call logs? His phone hits. Who'd he talk
2:33:09
Speaker 1: to two days, four days, eight days beforehand? Why do
2:33:14
Speaker 1: you think that they tore up and paved over the
2:33:17
Speaker 1: crime scene so quickly? I have asked that at least
2:33:23
Speaker 1: 10 times. And I said, I don't understand the exigency
2:33:29
Speaker 1: of why they did that. And here's my question to that.
2:33:32
Speaker 1: March your ass up to the school. Have you marched
2:33:35
Speaker 1: your ass up to the school or will you march
2:33:37
Speaker 1: your ass up to that school tomorrow and file a
2:33:40
Speaker 1: FOIA and say, hey, you're a public institution. I want
2:33:44
Speaker 1: the request and the plans that were made to tear
2:33:46
Speaker 1: that up and win those requests and plans happen. Because
2:33:51
Speaker 1: that didn't, you're not going to request that or you shouldn't.
2:33:54
Speaker 1: Request that overnight and have that done. That had to
2:33:57
Speaker 1: probably go through a budget request, had to be approved.
2:34:00
Speaker 1: There should be a timeline and paperwork for that. You
2:34:03
Speaker 1: should be able to get that through FOIA. And so
2:34:06
Speaker 1: do it. Make them tell us why that they tore
2:34:11
Speaker 1: that up before it was even cold. I want to know.
2:34:15
Speaker 1: Because it came back on us. That we had some
2:34:19
Speaker 1: trapdoor and they're covering up the trapdoor and we had
2:34:21
Speaker 1: a guy hiding in there.
2:34:24
Speaker 2: Okay, that's actually my next question. I didn't hear about the,
2:34:27
Speaker 2: there was somebody hiding in the trap door.
2:34:28
Speaker 1: A gun was hiding or something?
2:34:30
Speaker 2: Or there was a trap door or something. Was there
2:34:32
Speaker 2: a trap door in a tunnel system?
2:34:34
Speaker 1: No. There was not?
2:34:35
Speaker 2: No.
2:34:37
Speaker 1: So, school, why'd you tear it up? Why did you
2:34:41
Speaker 1: tear it up? What was the exigency to tear up
2:34:44
Speaker 1: something that still people would, did you not think that through? Like, hey,
2:34:49
Speaker 1: this might, we might want to put a hold on that.
2:34:52
Speaker 1: This might, induce questions to us. And it didn't. Nobody
2:34:57
Speaker 1: went back and asked questions to the school or said, hey, well,
2:35:00
Speaker 1: let's do a FOIA and do some back digging on
2:35:02
Speaker 1: that that's not protected under this evidentiary gag order. Now
2:35:07
Speaker 1: let's just blame the security team because that's the easy way.
2:35:11
Speaker 1: Go do the FOIA.
2:35:15
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, back to the exit wound thing.
2:35:21
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, because we're talking about the tearing
2:35:23
Speaker 2: up of the crime scene and everybody's wanting them to
2:35:25
Speaker 2: find the bullet. I mean, if the bullet hit any
2:35:28
Speaker 2: bone at all, there is no bullet. It's just fragmentation.
2:35:32
Speaker 1: Great point. And that was discussed already. And if there
2:35:37
Speaker 1: was no exit wound.
2:35:39
Speaker 2: In the autopsy, though, there should be, I mean, if
2:35:44
Speaker 2: there was no exit wound, then there should be fragmentation
2:35:48
Speaker 2: of the The bullet would have fragmented into who.
2:35:52
Speaker 1: Knows how many pieces. The doctor, and again, this is
2:35:56
Speaker 1: not a nondisclosure violation, but the doctor told us, came
2:36:00
Speaker 1: out there and told us. And then they also told
2:36:04
Speaker 1: chief of staff. So the bullet came in and hit
2:36:08
Speaker 1: the vertebra. So it came in and then tore up
2:36:14
Speaker 1: everything in the wound cavity, hit the vertebrae. Crushed it,
2:36:17
Speaker 1: shattered it, turned, crushed the second one. Turned, kept going
2:36:21
Speaker 1: down all the way. I think they said C6. Holy shit. Yeah,
2:36:26
Speaker 1: it's like, why not put that info out? Why not
2:36:29
Speaker 1: put it out? Why wouldn't they put that out? Do
2:36:35
Speaker 1: me a favor. Don't make me do it. It's not
2:36:37
Speaker 1: my job. And so then it got to here, and
2:36:40
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. And then hit, I think, 6, and
2:36:44
Speaker 1: then fragged. And so explanation 101, what are you hiding? Yeah,
2:36:52
Speaker 1: it's like I'm sitting back here when people are saying
2:36:54
Speaker 1: we bombed him or there's a wound. I'm like, hey,
2:36:57
Speaker 1: somebody from an official capacity would just release that, and
2:37:00
Speaker 1: I don't see how that could jeopardize a fair trial
2:37:03
Speaker 1: for a guy. And or somebody called the doctor. Somebody
2:37:11
Speaker 1: just called him. This guy, George Zen. Are you familiar
2:37:28
Speaker 1: with this guy? Is he the one that said?
2:37:30
Speaker 2: He is the performance immediately after the shooting. I believe
2:37:34
Speaker 2: he was saying that he had the shooter. He was
2:37:36
Speaker 2: also a witness to 9-11, called to the bomb threat
2:37:39
Speaker 2: in Salt Lake City, Marathon. I mean, he seems to
2:37:43
Speaker 2: show up at a lot of historic crises.
2:37:46
Speaker 1: Historic incidents, right? And then gets arrested and then later
2:37:51
Speaker 1: gets arrested for child porn after that. And so that
2:37:56
Speaker 1: was a weird deal because that came to us at
2:38:00
Speaker 1: the hospital. They have somebody in custody. And I'm like, awesome.
2:38:06
Speaker 1: And then our guys helped hold that perimeter area while
2:38:12
Speaker 1: they were arresting him. And I want to say they
2:38:15
Speaker 1: held on to some gear or something. I'd have to
2:38:19
Speaker 1: double check with them. But they were there assisting the
2:38:21
Speaker 1: police for that because they're still in there holding the
2:38:23
Speaker 1: crime scene. Yeah, and so how did this guy get there?
2:38:28
Speaker 1: And they did the search warrant on his house and
2:38:32
Speaker 1: they released it. It's like, hey, dump his phone and
2:38:34
Speaker 1: release that too. Dump the tower information and release that too.
2:38:39
Speaker 1: I want to see who he was talking to two, three, four,
2:38:42
Speaker 1: five days beforehand. I want to see what towers hit. Yeah,
2:38:47
Speaker 1: I want to see that. Yeah, I want to know
2:38:50
Speaker 1: who is this guy and why is he around All
2:38:54
Speaker 1: these things. All these things.
2:38:58
Speaker 2: What questions do you have? You had some good questions
2:39:02
Speaker 2: about Robinson.
2:39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to know who this kid is. I
2:39:09
Speaker 1: don't want to know that he had something that feeds
2:39:13
Speaker 1: a narrative of hate and division, that his boyfriend was
2:39:17
Speaker 1: trans or whatever, and that they had texts back and forth.
2:39:22
Speaker 1: I want to know, it's like, all right, where did
2:39:24
Speaker 1: he work? And then who were his coworkers and did
2:39:29
Speaker 1: they interview his coworkers? And then I want to see
2:39:33
Speaker 1: his phone logs and the towers that it hit. I
2:39:37
Speaker 1: want to interview his friends. And did he have any help?
2:39:42
Speaker 1: They said, oh, well, we have DNA on the rifle.
2:39:46
Speaker 1: And I want all that information. That's a good tie
2:39:50
Speaker 1: right now. From a judicial standpoint, I can understand why
2:39:55
Speaker 1: they're saying, yeah, we don't want to put all this
2:39:57
Speaker 1: information out because the judge said it may taint a
2:39:59
Speaker 1: potential jury because they're going to seek the death penalty.
2:40:04
Speaker 1: And I'm like, from a book standpoint, I understand that.
2:40:10
Speaker 1: But you got a lot of people out there wondering, hey,
2:40:14
Speaker 1: did this guy do it by himself? And then you
2:40:16
Speaker 1: throw my wonder on there. It's like, wow, so he just,
2:40:21
Speaker 1: The rooftop was clear, and then he jumped up on it,
2:40:24
Speaker 1: acquired a shooting position, took the shot. That shooting position
2:40:28
Speaker 1: was a loophole. If it had been five meters this
2:40:30
Speaker 1: way or this way, it wouldn't have happened. And then
2:40:34
Speaker 1: can we go through his phone or his computer and
2:40:37
Speaker 1: find a Google Earth overhead that he was looking at
2:40:40
Speaker 1: it days, weeks, months before? Did he access that before?
2:40:44
Speaker 1: Because obviously it's a problem because that's how we came
2:40:46
Speaker 1: up on the information. that it's easily accessed and how
2:40:50
Speaker 1: we gave it to the chief to say, hey, chief,
2:40:52
Speaker 1: you got this right. I got you covered. So that's
2:40:57
Speaker 1: information we need to know. I want to know about
2:40:59
Speaker 1: this kid. I want to know if somebody helped him.
2:41:02
Speaker 1: Is he a patsy? Was there a group of people?
2:41:07
Speaker 1: What's a patsy? Is he taking the blame for other people?
2:41:11
Speaker 1: Or is he part of... Is he a lone wolf?
2:41:17
Speaker 1: But then we all thought Timothy McVeigh was a lone
2:41:20
Speaker 1: wolf too, right? And then we come to find out, no,
2:41:23
Speaker 1: people knew about it. He had assistance. Even if it
2:41:27
Speaker 1: was assistance of we knew you were going to do
2:41:30
Speaker 1: something and then we didn't say something. So, yeah, I
2:41:36
Speaker 1: have questions to him. I have questions, and this is
2:41:38
Speaker 1: horrible because I'm a father. I have questions to his father.
2:41:43
Speaker 2: Aren't they saying that he took the rifle apart with
2:41:47
Speaker 2: a flathead screwdriver?
2:41:49
Speaker 1: That's a big one I want to know. And it's like,
2:41:52
Speaker 1: I know there's footage out there and I don't know
2:41:54
Speaker 1: what to believe and how it got down. It's like,
2:41:57
Speaker 1: all right, how did the, how did, I want to
2:41:59
Speaker 1: know that. How did the rifle get from the roof
2:42:02
Speaker 1: to where they found it? That's a big one. How
2:42:06
Speaker 1: did the rifle get from the shooting position all the
2:42:11
Speaker 1: way back across to where they found it. And then
2:42:13
Speaker 1: it was reassembled when they found it, correct? I don't
2:42:16
Speaker 1: think that it ever was disassembled. Because even an AR platform,
2:42:22
Speaker 1: think about it. You know what I mean? Pin, pin, break, pull.
2:42:26
Speaker 1: It's going to take a bit. That's a bolt gun.
2:42:30
Speaker 1: That's what I'm getting at.
2:42:31
Speaker 2: Right.
2:42:32
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen.
2:42:33
Speaker 2: It probably should have been a little bit more descriptive
2:42:37
Speaker 2: about that if we're.
2:42:38
Speaker 1: So I wanna know about that. Non-shooters. Yeah, and there's
2:42:42
Speaker 1: other things. Non-two-way enthusiasts. Yeah, yeah. I look at that
2:42:49
Speaker 1: and I look at a lot of things that are
2:42:52
Speaker 1: going on at Turning Point, you know, and, because I saw, man,
2:43:02
Speaker 1: I've seen people say that Erica was involved in it,
2:43:07
Speaker 1: his wife. I've done a lot of death notifications where
2:43:16
Speaker 1: I had to tell kids that their parents were dead
2:43:19
Speaker 1: or their parents that their kids were dead. And I
2:43:22
Speaker 1: know what pain looks and sounds like. I wake up
2:43:25
Speaker 1: screaming sometimes, thinking of kids. The words that came out
2:43:33
Speaker 1: of her mouth and how they came out, when she
2:43:39
Speaker 1: walked in that room and saw him, You don't want
2:43:44
Speaker 1: to hear that. She's a victim. That's her husband. And
2:43:54
Speaker 1: now people without any proof are saying that she was
2:43:56
Speaker 1: a part of killing him. Come on, man. And then
2:44:03
Speaker 1: not having anything to substantiate it with. That's what makes
2:44:08
Speaker 1: me lose faith in people. And that we allow it.
2:44:13
Speaker 1: And the platforms allow it. It goes against everything that
2:44:21
Speaker 1: we are. And if we're going to allow that, what
2:44:25
Speaker 1: else are we going to allow? You hear that kind
2:44:29
Speaker 1: of pain come from somebody and see it. And I
2:44:35
Speaker 1: can only imagine the pain she's feeling now by having
2:44:40
Speaker 1: to hear that people say that she was a part
2:44:42
Speaker 1: of Those are lies. And so we have that organization.
2:44:54
Speaker 1: It's got this huge power vacuum going on now. And
2:44:58
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's defecting it. It's affected me. And so
2:45:05
Speaker 1: that's an organization with a lot of great people in
2:45:07
Speaker 1: it doing good things. And so Where do we draw
2:45:18
Speaker 1: the line to people making allegations of bad behavior? It's
2:45:27
Speaker 1: a huge question. I mean, could you imagine? Think of
2:45:31
Speaker 1: this for a second. You've lost friends. And could you
2:45:38
Speaker 1: imagine somebody reporting that one of your friends, his wife
2:45:45
Speaker 1: was responsible for their death, what would you want to
2:45:49
Speaker 1: do to them? Yeah. And it's like, man, we're better
2:46:02
Speaker 1: than this. We should be better than this.
2:46:06
Speaker 2: And we're not.
2:46:09
Speaker 1: And people are bitching about the leaders we have. And
2:46:11
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, we get the leaders we deserve.
2:46:15
Speaker 1: That's a good point. and we don't deserve very much
2:46:18
Speaker 1: right now. On each side, on each side, both sides,
2:46:30
Speaker 1: we get the leaders we deserve. If we want to
2:46:35
Speaker 1: hold them accountable, we should hold ourselves accountable. Are there
2:46:51
Speaker 1: any other questions you have? No. I just, I mean,
2:46:56
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. You let me come on. When I
2:47:01
Speaker 1: got that phone call, I was like, wow. I mean,
2:47:07
Speaker 1: I've seen the people that have come here. And Don Graves,
2:47:13
Speaker 1: he sat here, right? That's Eddie Penny, Ben Carson. I
2:47:23
Speaker 1: was like, man, I don't deserve this. So. It's a
2:47:28
Speaker 1: lot of humility in this room, man. Should be. I'm
2:47:32
Speaker 1: thankful for that. You deserve to be here just like
2:47:35
Speaker 1: everybody else. God bless you, brother. Thank you. Thank you.
2:47:55
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